gospell and haue imbraced and professed and doo still professe most vnpure Popish religion The booke was first written by the aboue named Iohn de Albine as it may be thought either in the Latine or in the French tonge Wherefore I meane not to bestow any time in the answering of it supposing that either Beza or some other French Protestant hath already dealt therein sufficiently But because the offers séeme to be made by some English man and haue not as I thinke béene aunswered by any man I haue thought good to supply the place of that learned Protestant that the Popish Catholique ment to make the offers vnto And that the Offerer if hee be yet liuing or any fréende of his if he be departed this lyfe may not haue any cause to mislike with my dealing herein I minde to setfoorth to the view of the Reader all the words of the Offerer euen as I finde them and as I haue them to shew in his printed Coppie which I haue and doo mind to kéepe in a readinesse to shewe not abiding or dimnishing altering or changing one sentence worde sillable letter or title The Offerer beginneth thus The Offerer First seeing it cannot bee denied that our sauiour Christ before his departure and ascension did commit the charge and gouernment of his Church the testimony of his worde the truth of his gospell the ministration of his Sacraments to his Apostles and Disciples and that not only for them selues but to their successors Bishops and Priests and to none other saying only to them Euntes docete omnes gentes Math. 28. Marc. 16. Goe yee and teach all people and nations of the world baptizing them in the name of the father and of the sonne and of the holy ghoste teaching them to obserue and keepe all things which I haue commaunded you Further the Apostle Saint Paule being at Miletum in executing of his charge gouernment gaue this admonition to the Bishops and Priestes there assembled before him saying Attēdite vobis et vniuer so gregi Act. 20. Take heed vnto your selues and vnto the whole flocke of Christ in the which the holy ghost hath ordayned you Bishops Regere ecclesiam Dei To gouerne the Church of God And in the thirteenth Chapter of his Epistle to the Hebrews hee dooth commaunded all other sortes of men without exception of Emperours Kings Queenes and Princes to obay their Bishops and priestes saying Heb. 13. Obedite praepositis vestris subiacete eis ipsi enim peruigilant quasi rationem pro animabus vestris reddituri Obey your Prelates and doo what they appoint you for they doo watch as men that shall render accomptes for your soules Seeing that by the testimonies before alleadged it can not bee denyed but that the charge and gouernment of Chryst his Church the preaching of his doctrine the admninistration of his Sacramentes was by him committed to his Apostles and Dysciples and to all Byshoppes and Priestes as Successours of them to plante Chrystian fayth and Religion in his Catholique Church vniuersally throughout all Nations Coastes and Quarters of the world Seeing this is by the playnnesse of the sayd testimonies of such an vndoubted truth that it cannot bee denyed now let the learned protestant affirming princes to bee the supreme heades of the Church eyther shew by some such other like playne testymonies of the Scriptures that our Sauiour Chryst did commit the chyefe charge and supreme gouernement of his Church to Emperours Kings Queenes and Princes to plant Christian fayth and Religion in the same or that any one of Chryst his Apostles or Disciples did conuert any people Lande or Countrey from their Idolatrie and Ethnike kinde of liuing to Christian faith and Religion by preaching the doctrine of the Protestants as of onely faith to iustifie the contempt of good workes and that they be all vncleane in sight of GOD the deniall of free will of the real presence of Christes body in the holy Eucharist of the Sacrifice of the most blessed Masse the abolishing Christ his Sacramentes and of all grace and goodnesse by them conferred vnto vs then I shall yeelde and recant and not before Thus farre the first part of the Offer Crowley This Offerer hath deuided this offer of his into 22. parts adding to the last part six certaine and assured signes and tokens of false Prophets Heretickes Schismatickes This diuision I meane to follow in mine answer To this first part therfore I say thus maister Offerer I cōfesse that our Sauiour Christ dyd as you haue sayd committe the charge and gouernement of his Church the testimonye of his worde the trueth of his Gospell and the ministration of his Sacramentes to his Apostles and Scholers and to theyr successors But not to such successours onely as you do name that is to Bishops and Préestes onely and to none other For S. Paule in the 12. Chapter of his first Epistle to the Corinthians and in the 4. to the Ephesians writing of the same matter sayth thus Et ipse dedit quosdam quidem Apostolos Eph 4. quosdam autem Prophetas alios vero Euangelistas alios autem Pastores Doctores And he hath giuen some Apostles or Messengers and some Prophettes and other some Euangelistes and some others Pastors and teachers And againe in the 12. of the first to the Corinthians hee writeth thus 1 Cor 12. Et quosdam posuit Deus in Ecclesia primum Apostolos secundo Prophetas tertio Doctores deinde virtutes exinde gratias curationum opitulationes gubernationes genera linguarum God hath place in his Church certaine degrees of men first Apostles secondly Prophets thirdly teachers then powers after that giftes of healings helpes gouernements kindes of tongues Least you should quarell about the translating of S. Paules wordes out of the Gréeke I haue set them downe as I finde them in that translation that your Tridentine councell hath allowed of But I pray you good M. Offerer what meant S. Paule that in the rehearsall of those sundry degrées of men that God hath placed in his Church he would make no mentiion at al of your Bishops and Préestes to whom onely as to the onely successours of his Apostles and Disciples Christ spake if you haue written truely when he sayd thus Math. 28 Euntes docete omnes gentes Goe ye and teach all nations of the worlde c. Without all doubt S. Paule dyd know and so doo wée that God dyd neuer place in his Church or appoint to succéede his Apostles and Disciples any such Bishops and Préestes as you meane of That is Lording and loitring Bishops exercising dominion ouer the peoples that are alotted vnto them and sawsie sacrificing Préests which presume to occupie the place of Christ himselfe and to execute his office in offering sacrifice for the sinnes of the people S. Peter disaloweth the one 1. Pet. 5. and S. Paule the other Hebr. 10. Hebr 1◠1 Peter ◠Yea if our
good consequence of all persons that are inferiour to these that whatsoeuer these Prelats shall appoint to be doone must of necessitie be doone by all men and women of euery degrée as though such Prelates onely and none other might be in the Latine called Praepositi and in the Gréeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Which Latine and Gréeke wordes doo signifie all manner of superiours whether they be of the ecclesticall or ciuill state Yea and that dutie of watching as men that shall render an account for the soules of men is common to all those superiours of all sortes wherefore you haue dealt very iniuriouslie in that you haue restrayned that duety of watching to your Prelates onely Saint Paule in his Epistle to the Romanes the 13. Chapter writeth thus Omnis anima Rom. 13. potestatibus sublimioribus sub dit a sit Let euery soule be subiect to the higher powers c. If you had séene and considered what Chrysostome writteth vpon these woords of Saint Paule I think you would neuer haue written as you haue done affirming that saint Paule hath commaunded all manner men without exception yea though they were Emperours Kings Quéenes or Princes so to obey your Prelates as to doo whatsoeuer they shall appoint them to doo Chrysost in Rom. 13. for Chrysostome wryteth thus Etiam si Apostolus sis si Euangelista si Propheta siue quisquis tandem fueris Neque enim pietatem subuertit ista subiectio Et non simpliciter dicit obediat sed subiecta sit Although thou shouldst be an Apostle an Euangelist or a Prophet or what maner of man soeuer thou shouldst bée For this subiection dooth not subuert pietie or godlines And hée dooth not simply say Let euery soule obay but hée saith Let it bee in subiection Thus much Chrysostome writing vpon the first words of the thirteenth to the Romaines And in the same Chapter that you cite out of the Epistle to the Hebrewes saint Paule seemeth to haue the same meaning that hée had when hée wrote to the Romaines For thus hée writeth to the Hebrews in the latter end of the thirtéenth Chapter Salutate omnes qui praesunt vobis omnes Sanctos Salute all them that are your Rulers and all the Saintes If these Rulers that saint Paule willeth the Hebrews to salute were such as you say they were when hée commaundeth them to obey that is to say Bishops Priests then was not this Epistle written to them but to the inferiour sorte amongst the Hebrews which is a thing too absurd to bée graunted For what ciuilitie honestie or wisedome may that man bée thought to haue that would write such an Epistle as this to the inferiours of any congregation of Christians and not to the superiours of the same congregation These Hebrews were Christians and dwelt as my bée thought in sundrie Cities within the Dominions of the Emperour of Rome As in Hierusalem or in any other of those Cities that had belonged to the kingdome of Israel or in any other kingdome or prouince And it is like that the Apostle being in Italy when hée wrote this Epistle had some occasion to admonish them of that opinion which commonly the posteritie of Abraham held which was that they ought not to liue in subiection to any rulers that were not of the same posteritie And therefore hée wrote vnto them as before Obedite c. Obey your Superiours and submit your selues vnto them And as in this place Salutate c. Salute all those that be in authority ouer you As though hée should haue said thus I know that you would gladly bée gouerned as you are Hebrews borne by such as bée Hebrews as you are and as you are Christians by Christians as your selues bée But sith you sée that God will haue it otherwise let such as God hath set ouer you haue their due honour at your hands Obey them honour them serue them giue them all tributes and customs due vnto them and pray to God for them that you may leade a peaceable and quiet life vnder them And that they may the rather bée mooued to bée fauourable to you salute them in my name and in like maner salute all saitns that is all Christians though they bée of the Gréekes that they may know that both I and you doo estéeme of them as of fellow members of that one body whereof Christ is the head This may bée the meaning of the Apostle in those woords that you haue cited and in the other that follow But it may bée that some of your sorte will say that in the seuenth verse of the same Chapter the Apostle hath written thus Hebr 13. Memores estote c. Bée mindefull of those your rulers that haue spoken vnto you the woorde of God and follow their faith considering what the end of their conuersation was Here you will say that these rulers must néedes bée preachers of the woorde I confesse that the Apostle dooth in these woords meane of such But shall wée therefore say that they were Bishops and Priests such as you haue affirmed them to bée It appéereth manifestly by the Apostles words that they were the same that had preached the gospell vnto them and had continued constant in preaching the same doctrine to the end of their liues and had sealed it with their blood For the Apostle saith thus Considering what the end of their conuersation hath bin which can not bée ment of any that did then presently gouerne or teach them Yea and how could the Apostle take vpon him to commaund Emperours Kings Quéenes and Princes to obey such Bishops and Priestes as the Hebrews being a simple sort of Christians could haue to rule and teach them The testimonies therefore that you alleage M. Offerer may right well bée denyed for they testifie not that which you would affirme by them For although the charge and gouernment of the Church of Christ the preaching of the doctrine of the gospell and the ministration of the sacraments of Christ were committed to the Apostles and Disciples of Christ and to their successours yet are not the same committed to your Bishops and Priests for they are not the successours eyther of Christ or any Apostle or Dysciple of Christ except you will néedes haue them the successors of Iudas Iscariot or of Simon Magus But now the learned Protestant that you make your offer vnto must either prooue by some such other like plaine testimonies of the Scriptures that our Sauiour Chryst did commit the chiefe charge and supreme gouernment of his Church to Emperours Kinges Quéenes Princes to plant Chrystian fayth and Religion in the same or else that some one of Chrystes Apostles or Disciples did conuert some one People Land or Countrey from their Idolatrie and Ethinke kinde of liuing to Christia◠faith and Religion by preaching the doctrine of the Protestants c. For Protestants to prooue by plaine testimonies of the Scriptures that our Sauiour Christ did
those workes that our Lord the hath made vs redéemed vs consecrated vs to his own seruice hath prepared for vs to walke in As for workes diuised by men wee esteeme of them as wee finde them If wee sée that they bend to the setting foorth of Gods glory in our edification wee vse them otherwise wee refuse them But the workes that God hath commaunded wee are carefull to doo And when by the infirmitie and corruption of our nature wee stumble and fall wée crie vnto our mercifull father for help as being assured that hee heareth vs and in tender affection towards vs will help vs yea though hee doo for a time suffer vs to lie vnder that too too heauie burthen of sinne vnder which wée are fallen by infirmitie Wee seeke not to our fellow seruants as to Angels or men much lesse to Antichrist the professed enimie of our Christ and sauiour Wee trust not in our owne strength nor in any merites that may bée in vs but wée trust in our God and our onely sauiour Iesus Christ And when wee haue walked vpright and haue done that which wee are commaunded to doo wee say as our Sauiour hath taught vs to say wee are vnprofitable bond slaues wee haue done nothing but that which of duetie wee ought to doo But now let vs sée the second offer that our Offerer maketh The second offer The Offerer Second Christ his Catholique Church being on this wise planted by the Apostles and Disciples of Christ by Bishops and Priests the successors of them had at all times a speciall care and regarde not onely of preaching Gods word but also of the preseruation of the same woord and gospell by writing of the sacred Bible and holy scriptures and did discerne and iudge them from all other writings prophane or authentique of all sortes What Church hath had from time to time the custodie of the sacred scriptures and most safely hath preserued them for the necessarie foode of Gods people and from the corruption of the aduersaries as well Iewes and Gentiles as schismatikes and heretikes of all sorts but onely the common knowne Catholiquâ— Church of Christ When therefore the learned Protestants shal be able to bring proofe to the contrarie that their priuate conuenticles and Congregations were the first bringers forth of this sacred Bible and word of God written the chiefe preseruers and defenders of the same in all times and ages from all Iewes Gentiles betikes and schismatikes then will I as I sayd before reuolt and recant Crowley In this his second Offer the Offerer vseth a fallace or disceit which in reasoning is called Petitio principij That is hee laboureth to confirme his assertion wherein there is no certenty by that wherein there is as litle or lesse certenty then in that assertion that hee holdeth And yet hee setteth a face vpon it as though nothing were or could bee more certaine then both the assertion and that whereby hée would prooue it bee His assertion is that the Church of Rome which he calleth Catholique is and euer hath bin from time to time the conseruer and kéeper of the sacred scriptures and this hee would prooue by another like assertion that is that the same Church was the first Preacher and Writer of the same scripture which hée calleth the sacred Bible and holy scriptures When the vnlearned Reader considereth this assertion hée is brought into such a maze that hee knoweth not which way to take For this Offerer would beare him in hand that the sacred Bible which containeth those bookes that are called the old Testament were neuer written before the church which he calleth Catholike did take in haÌ„d to write them Where as in very déede some of those bookes were written before the first foundation of Rome was layde Yea hee would that men should thinke that that Romish Church which hée calleth Catholique is the same that was first planted amongst the Nations of the worlde by the preaching of the gospell amongst them Which preaching began at Hierusalem sprang from thence as from a most plentifull Fountaine and was by the labour and trauell of the Apostles and Disciples of our sauiour Christ in preaching the gospell speedily spred ouer all the worlde And that it was this Romish Church that did first wryte the Gospels and other bookes of the new Testament and hath discerned of those bookes that are accounted for holy scripture and hath seuered them from all other writinges what so euer and hath preserued them from all corruption c. But such as bee learned doo know that all the bookes of the old Testament commonly called the Bible were written before the Incarnation of our sauiour Christ and therefore before any such Church as this Offerer imagineth the Romish Catholique Church to bée could haue any being Our Sauiour him selfe hath sayd Iohn 5. Iohn 5. Scrutamini scripturas c. Serch the Scriptures for you think to haue euerlasting life in them And those scriptures bée they that doo giue testimonie of mee And againe the Euangelist Luke saith thus Chapt. 24. Et incipiens a Mose Luc 24. omnibus Prophetis c. And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets hee did interpret vnto them all the scriptures which were written concerning him Saint Peter also saith thus Act. 3. Act 3. Et omnes Prophetae a Samuele c. And all the Prophets from Samuel forward euen as many as haue spoken haue made mention of these daies yea and saint Paule in that Epistle that hée directed to those Romaines that were the first Christians in Rome Rom 15. wryteth thus Quaecunque enâ—m scripta sunt c. What so euer things haue bin setdowne in writing haue bin written for our learning that through patience and consolation of the scriptures wée might conceiue hope And to Timoth. 2. Timoth. 3. 2. Timot. 3. Saint Paule saith thus Omnis scriptura diuinitus inspirata vtilis est c. Euerie scripture giuen dy diuine inspiration is profitable for teaching for reproouing for rebuking for instructing c. By all these places of scripture it appeareth plainely that the sacred Bible was written before the Romish Catholique Church had hir beginning and therefore coulde not bée first written by that Church as this Offerer laboureth to perswade that it was Yea and the bookes of the new testament were written by the Euangelists and Apostles and not by any such Bishops and Priests as this Offerer would haue vs think to bée the immediate successors of the Apostles and Disciples of our sauiour Christ and to bée the Bishops Priests of the City of Rome For when saint Paule being in prison at Rome wrote his second Epistle to Timothie there were no such Bishops or Priestes there as might worthyly bee taken for Christians For thus dooth S. Paule write In prima mea defensione nemo mihi affuit c. In my first defence 2. Timot. 4. there was not one man that
Bishop Fyshar Sir Thomas Moore the Monkes of the charter house with all the rest of the Popes friends that suffered in the daies of King Henry the eight and Edmond Campion with his companie and the rest that haue bene executed in the time of the raigne of our Soueraigne that now is for what cause haue they suffered was it not for that they affirmed that the Popes holines hath the supreme power in this realme that princes haue not the highest power vpon earth ouer such as be their subiectes This cause can not bee Christs cause for Christ did in his humaine nature submit him selfe to the Emperor in that hee him selfe did pay tribute to the Emperor in token of subiection Mat. 17. Mat 17. S. Peter willeth all christians to submit them selues to all estates of men euen for the Lords sake whether it be to the king as to him that hath the preheminence or to the Dukes or captaines as to men whom the Lord hath sent for the punishment of euill dooers but for the praise of such as bée good for so is the will of God that Christians should by well dooing stop the ignoraunce of foolish men c. 1. Pet. 2. 1 Peter 2. S. Paule also wrote thus to the Romaines Omnis anima potestatibus sublimioribus subdita sit c. Let euery soule be subiect to the higher powers c. Rom. 13. Rom. 13. Chrysostome expounding these woords of S. Paule saith thus Etiam si Apostolus sis si Euangelista si Propheta siue quisquis tandem fueris c. Although thou be an Apostle if thou bée an Euangelist if thou be a Prophet and to conclude who or what so euer thou béest For saith Chrysostome this subiection dooth not subuert godlinesse And hée saith not simply hée must obay but hée saith Chrysost in Rom. 13. subdita sit It must bée in subiection By these woords of Chrysostome it appeereth what maner of Martyrs they are that haue died for the mainetenaunce of your Popes supreme powre ouer all Christians vpon earth If Chrysostome were now liuing and would maintaine this that hee hath written your Pope would make him a Martyr in déed if hée might catch him as hee hath and still dooth make Martyrs of all such as hée hath and can catch that bee of one minde with Chrysostome Your Confessors are euen such as your Martyrs and so are your Virgins with the rest that you meane of when you say and such other Now let the Protestant prooue say you that this is not the true Church that we are not bound to obay and belieue this Church and none other in all controuersies and doubts c. The Protestant hath already prooued that the church that you meane of which is the Romaine Antichristian church is not the true Church of Christ and that it hath not in it those things that you doo so much brag of It hath not continuance as yet for the space of 1000. yéeres It hath not neither dooth it exercise preaching to the conuersion of nations to the obedience of the gospell but to the obedience of Antichristian doctrine It hath not had neither hath it the right administration of the sacraments but with such mixture of humaine diuises as is vnséemely in the Church of Christ It hath not had neither hath it any such orderly succession of bishops as you brag of neither any such vniformitie of solemne Ceremonies It hath not had at any time neither hath it now such vnitie of faith as you speake of nor the holy functions of the spirite as working of Miracles remission of sinnes nor the true sense and interpretation of the woord of God Neither is it beautified with that diuersitie of states that you speake of as Martyrs Confessors and Virgins such other wherefore the Protestant concludeth that there is no cause why he should obay and belieue that church of yours no more is there that you should not yeelde and recant The Twentith offer Offerer Twentith Moreouer let the learned Protestant proue that the true and Catholike church of Christ may at any time bee voide of Gods spirit which he hath promised to be with his Church for euer saying Et ego rogabo patrem et alium paracletum dabit vobis Iohn 14. vt maneat vobiscum in aeternū or falsly to interpret any sentence of holy scripture or to induce any erroure among the people or approoue vnprofitable and hurtfull vsages amonge the Christians or that shee suffereth any damnable abuse in her religion without open repredhension thereof Let the learned Protestant prooue any of these points and I will then yeelde and recant and not before Crowley The true Catholique church of Christ in déed is neuer voyde of Gods spirite Yea there is not one member of that church which hath not that spirite dwelling in it in some measure For thus the Apostle Paule hath written to the Romaines Si quis autem spiritum Christi non habet hie non est eius If there be any that hath not the spirite of Christ the same belongeth not to him Rom. 8. Rom. 8 I doo confesse therefore that the true Catholique church of Christ is neuer voide of Gods spirit But according to the words that this Offerer hath cited out of the 14. cha of Iohn Iohn 14 our sauiour Christ hath sent another comforter which is the holy spirit of God to be with his Church for euer But what maketh this for M. Offerers purpose Hee must prooue that the church of Rome being such as now it is hath bin for the space of a thousand yéeres almost is that true Catholique church of Christ and then these pointes will serue him to some purpose otherwise they doo make flatly against him Taking your church to bee the true Catholike church of Christ you offer to yéelde and recant if the Protestant can prooue that your church hath fasly interpreted any one sentence of the holy scripture The Protestant hath alreain his answere to your 19. offer sufficiently prooued that your whole church hath in the 25. session of your Tridentine counsell falsly interpreted or rather flatly denied mo then one two or thrée sentences of the holy scriptures as to the indifferent Reader it may there most euidently apeere wherefore wée doo looke for the performance of your promise in yéelding and recanting That your church hath induced doth still induce errors amongst the people hath approued and doth still approoue vnprofitable and hurtfull vsages amongst Christians hath suffered and dooth still suffer damnable abuses in religion without open reprehention is more manifest then that which lyeth open in the cleare sunne light Wherefore the Protestant néedeth not to spend any time in the proofe therof It may suffice to put the reader in minde of those shamelesse errors that your church hath taught dooth still teach and maintaine concerning the inuocation of Angelles and Saints the praying for the deade
Sauiour Christ dyd speake only to such Bishops and Préests as you doo appoint to be the successours of the Apostles and disciples of Christ when he sayd Euntes c. Goe and teach all nations of the worlde c. Howe hath that his commaundement béene or howe is it executed sith they commonly neither doo nor can teache those thinges that our Sauiour commaunded his Apostles and scholers to teach and to doo The successors of the Apostles and scholers of our Sauiour Christ to whome those wordes were at the first and be still spoken must bee such as God hath dooth and shall make méete to doo his message to men of all sortes to foreshewe vnto them by the Scriptures what hangeth ouer theyr heades if they will not regarde the message to comfort them with the assurance of the performaunce of the swéet promises which God hath made in the blood of his sonne Christ Iesus to foster féede and nourishe them with the foode of his heauenly worde and to teach and instruct them in the way of the trueth so that they may be able to discerne betwéene the broad way that leadeth to destruction and that narrowe way that leadeth to lyfe euerlasting and to continue walking in that way euen to the ende of their life in this transitorie state Thus much doo those wordes signifie which I haue cited out of the fourth Chapter of S. Paules Epistle to the Ephesians And in the wordes that I haue cited out of the 12. Chapter of the first to Corinth Saint Paule hath added that these wordes of our Sauiour Christ were spoken to them also whom God hath dooth or shall make mighty endueinge them with power from aboue making them able to stande against and to withstand yea and vanquishe the ghostly enimies that is the deuill the world and the fleshe to cure sicknesses and diseases to succour helpe and comfort the weake and féeble to gouerne the simple and to vnderstand and speake diuers languages All this may be vnderstanded in these wordes of S. Paule God hath placed in his Church certaine degrées of men first Apostles secondly prophets thirdly teachers after that powers after that giftes of healing helpings gouernementes and diuersities of tongues So that these words go and teach all nations c. Were spoken first to the Apostles and Scholers of our Sauiour Christ and then to all such their successours as God hath dooth or shall make méete any way to teach those thinges that he hath commaunded to be taught practised But now M. Offerer hath found that S. Paule being at Miletum hath admonished the Bishops Priestes that were assembled before him there saying AtteÌ„dite vobis c. Take héede to your selues and vnto the whole flocke of Christ in which the holy Ghost hath ordained you Bishops Act. 10. Regere Ecclesiam Dei. To gouerne the Church of God And againe in the 13. Chapter of his Epistle to the Hebrewes Saint Paule dooth commaund all other sortes of men without exception of Emperours Kings Quéenes and Princes to obay their Bishops and Préestes saying Obedite praepositis vostris subiacete eis ipsi enim peruigilant quasi rationem pro animabus vestris reddituri Obey your Prelates and doo what they appoint you to do for they doo watch as men that shall render an account for your soules Héere is subtile Sophistrie in the stéede of probable reasoning and profound Diuinity These testimonies bée so plaine that it can not be denied but that as the charge gouernement of Christes Church c. was committed to Christs Apostles and Disciples so the same is committed to Popish Bishops and Préestes as to their successors But I pray you good M. Offerer let vs consider of these two places that you haue cited Saint Luke reporting the Actes or déedes of the Apostles sayth that Saint Paule hasting towardes Ierusalem would spend no time in Asia and therefore determining to passe by Ephesus sent messengers thether to require the Elders of the congregation to repayre vnto him being then in the Iland Milâ—tâ— which is now called Mâ—lâ—a These Elders you doo name Bishops and Préestes But the Gréeke worde that S. Luke vseth there can not by any meanes signifie eyther a Bishoppe or Préest of that sorte that you speake of For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dooth signifie one that is elder or more auncient in yéeres or more honorable then they be amongst whom he liueth And such were they that commonly were chosen in those dayes to be teachers instructours and gouernours in the congregations or Churches of Christians and therefore they were called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Obseruers watchmen searchers such as had the ouersight of things committed to them But your Bishops and Préestes most bee such as the Grecians doo call by the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 That is a Préest that offereth sacrifices But héere I will make you one offer M. Offerer which shal be thus If you can finde in any of the Bookes of the newe Testament that eyther our Sauiour Christ speaking of the ministers of the new Testament or any of the Apostles writing of the seuerall sortes of ministers that our Sauiour Christ hath ordayned to serue or minister in his Churche haue vsed eyther of these Gréeke woordes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which doo signifie a sacrificing Preest then will I recante the Protestants doctrine and subscribe to your Papisticall doctrine and not before In the place that you haue cited out of the 20. Chapter of the Acts of the Apostles S. Paule calleth the ministers of Ephesus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is watch men or ouerséers appointed by the holy Ghost 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to gouerne the Church of God in such sorte as a shéepheard dooth gouerne and féede his flocke but not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to exercise lordlike authority ouer them as your meaning must néedes bée that your Bishoppes and Préestes should For you say that S. Paule dooth commaund all other sorts of men without exception c. To obay their Bishops and Préestes saying Obedite c. Obay your prelates c. And here I must néedes note your corrupt manner of handling of this place of S. Paule He himselfe dooth beséech those Hebrewes that he worte vnto to suffer or to take in good part that short exhortation that he gaue them but you say that hee commaunded them yea though they were Emperours Kings Quéenes or Princes to obaye theyr Prelates and to doo what they appoint In the Latine you cite the wordes Hebr 13. as they are in the vulgare translation allowed in the Tridentine councell Obedite c. It pleaseth you to set downe for Praepositis Prelates minding as it séemeth to make vs beléeue that such Prelates as you call Bishops and Préests must by S Paules commaundement be so obeyed of all Emperours Kings Quéenes and Princes and so by
commit the chiefe charge and supreme gouernment of his Church c. Is altogither vnnecessarie for neuer did any of that sorte affirme that to bée true Wée doo all know that our Sauiour Christ did not call Emperours Kings Quéenes nor Princes to make them his messengers or Apostles but he called Fisher men and such other and made them able and méete to doo his message euen to Princes and Emperours and to all other the greatest personages in the world As saint Paule writeth 1. Cor. 1. 1 Cor 1 Quae stulta sunt mundi elegâ— Deus vt confundat sapientes c. God hath chosen the foolish things of the world that hée might confounde the wise and God chose the weake things of the world to confounde the stronge and the base and dispised thinges of the world hath God chosen yea and those thinges that bée not that hée might destroy those thinges that bée Yea and wée doo know that God did not prepare the hearts of the Princes and chiefe men of the world to receiue the doctrine of the gospell with the first so that the Apostle Paule had occasion to write thus to the same Corinthians 1. Cor. 1. 1 Cor 1 Videte vocationem vestram c. Brethren consider your calling for there are not amongst you many wise men after the flesh not many mighty not many of noble Parentage c. Yea in the daies wherein Saint Augustin cliued which was 400. yéeres after the ascention of our sauiour Christ it séemed a strange thing euen in the City of Rome that any man of any account in the world would become a Christian man For when Victorinus a famous Rhethorician in that City would professe the Religion of Christ and be baptized hée did it as Saint Augustine hath written Confessionum lib. 8. cap. 2. Mirante Roma gauâ—â—nte Ecclesia August lib 8 Cap 2 Rome meruelling and the Church of Christ in Rome reioyceing There is therefore no cause why you shoulde require the learned Protestant to prooue by plain Scriptures that our Sauiour Christ did commit the chiefe charge and supreme gouernment of his Church to Emperors c. But this the Protestants doo hold and are able to prooue by plaine places of the Scriptures that Emperors Kings Quéenes Princes Dukes and all other Potentates are the supreme gouernours of those peoples ouer whom God hath placed them whether the same people bée by profession Christians or Miscreants Yea and that the chiefe charge that euery of these Potentates haue from God is that they shall in their owne persons walke in the Lordes wayes and leade their people in the same And for that cause they are in the Scriptures called Pastores that is Shéepeheards as in the 44. Cha. of his Prophecies Esay 44 Esaie speaking in the person of God saith Qui dico Cyro Pastor meus 〈◊〉 omnem voluntatem meam complebis That is Which doo say vnto Cyrus thou arte my Shéepeheard and thou shalt fulfill all my will Cyrus was an Heathen prince and yet the Lord calleth him his Shéepeheard and commaundeth him to fulfill all his will and pleasure King Dauid being a Shéepheard in déede was taken from the Shéepefold and made king ouer all Israell that hée might féede that people of the Lord euen as a Shéepeheard féedeth his flocke And hée did rule them prudently with all his possible powre Psal 78. Psalm 78 And that these Potentates might bée able to discharge that duety that the Lord God hath appointed them to doo hée hath giuen vnto them the powre of the Sword as in the 13. Rom 13. Chapter to the Romaines it appeareth Principes saith Saint Paule non sunt timori boni operis sed mali c. Princes are not to bée feared of them that doo well but of them that doo euill Wilt thou bée without feare of the Potentate Doo well and thou shalt bée praised of him For hée is Gods minister to doo the good But if thou doo euill then feare him for hée beareth not a Sword for nought Hée is Gods minister to take vengeance on him that dooth euill c. At that time wherein the Apostle wrote those woordes to the Romaines there was not one Christian Prince as it may bée thought in all the world And yet hée dooth certifie the Romaines that euen those heathen Princes were ordained of GOD for the benefit of Christians as of all other sortes of men that world bend them selues to walke in hys wayes and not contynue in ignoraunce of lyfe And for the punishment of all such as should giue them selues to leade a dissolute life Yea and it belonged to the office euen of those Princes not onely to vse the powre of the Sword in defending Innocents and in punishing wicked doers but also to set foorth aduaunce and maintaine right and true Religion as in the holy Histories it dooth appeare that they did as often as by any occasion their hearts were touched with the feare of GOD As Darius the Persian Emperour when hee had séene the mighty powre of GOD in preseruing Daniell in the Lyons den did hee not write immediately to all his subiects commaunding them to feare to stand in awe of Daniels God confessing him to be the lyuing and euerlasting God that his kingdome powre is euerlasting and that it is hée that deliuereth and saueth worketh woonders both in Heauen in Earth Daniel 6. Daniel 6. The same Darius as it appeareth in the sixt Chapter of the first booke of Esdras coÌ„maunded that the Temple in Hierusalem which had bin destroyed by the Babylonians should bée reedified as king Cyrus had commaunded and that it should bée furnished with all things necessary and meete for the seruice of God 1. Esdras 1. 6. 1. Esd 1. 6 And amongst the good kings of Israell and Iuda Dauid not without a secret motion from God I am sure did cause the Arke of Gods couenant to bée brought to Hierusalem and placed in a Tabernacle which hée had prepared for it there yea and in his owne person hée vsed all such behauiour as might tend to the setting foorth of the glorie of God and abase him selfe in the sight of God and at his owne charges hée caused much sacrifice to bée offered to the Lord and afterward hée blessed the people of the Lord and gaue rewards of meate drinke to euery one of them as well the women as the men As appeareth in the sixt Chapter of the second booke of Samuell which you call the second of the kings 2. Reg. 6 And I pray you good M. Offerer who was hée whom God appointed to build his Temple in Hierusalem was it not Salomon the king And did not hée builde it in déed and furnish it according as the Lord had coÌ„maunded him Tertij Reg. 5. c. And who reformed Religion destroied the Idols that king Achas had caused to bee set vp in the Temple was it
is all the elected children of God whom GOD hath by the holie spirite of santification made holie Yea and the couenant that the Apostle speaketh of heere dooth assure vs that all the sinnes and iniquities of Gods Elected children are so pardoned and forgiuen that they shall neuer bée called to memorie any more And heere vpon saint Paule concludeth that there is no more sacrifice to bée offered for sinne How dare any Christian therefore affirme directly contrary to these woords of saint Paule that there is a sacrifice daily offered in the Masse for the sinnes both of the quicke and of the deade For that is the doctrine that this Offerer and his fellowes doo maintaine 1. Iohn 1 See also what Saint Iohn writeth in the first Chapter of his first Epistle Si autem in luce ambulamus sicut ipse est in luce societatem habemus ad inuicem sanguis Iesu Christi filij eius emundat nos ab omni peccato c. If wee doo walke in light as hee is in light meaning GOD of whom hee spake before then haue we fellowship one with another and the blood of Iesus Christ his sonne doth make vs cleane from all sinne If wée shall say that wée haue no sinne wee deceiue our selues and the truth is not in vs. If wée confesse our sinnes hee is faithfull and iust so that hee will remit or forgiue vs our sinnes and hee will clense vs from all iniquitie And againe in the second Chapter 1 Iohn 2. the same saint Iohn saith thus My litle babes I write these woords vnto you that you should not sinne but if any man shall sinne wee haue an Aduocate with the Father euen Iesus Christ the Righteous and hee is the propitiation for our sinnes Not for our sinnes only but also for the sinnes of all the world If wée had to doo with reasonable men this that I haue cited out of the writings of these two Apostles might suffice for defence of that which the Protestants doo held concerning the Masse affirming that there is no sacrifice offered therein for the sinnes either of the quicke or of the deade But nothing will satisfie this Offerer his fellowes the Popish Chatholiques The Scriptures haue no credit with them except the same bee confirmed by the wryting of men Bicause commonly the Auncient Doctors haue in their writings vsed excessiue or hyperbolicall maner of speaches to mooue the mindes of their Readers reuerendly to esteeme of the holy mysteries these grosse Capernaites would by the authoritie of those auncient Fathers enforce vs to confesse that the holy Eucharist is a Sacrifice for the sinnes both of the quicke and of the dead But when their works are throughly waighed it is found that they ment nothing lesse then to giue occasion of any such blasphemous doctrine as these Blasphemers woulde builde vpon their woords Let vs see what Chrysostome hath said in his Homilie vpon the 95. Psal concerning the Sacrifices of the New testament Expounding the woords of the Prophet Malachie in the first Chapter Chrysost in Psalm 95 Malach. 1. Non est mihi voluntas in vobis dicit Dominus omnipotens c. I haue no pleasure or delight in you saith the Lord Almighty c. Hee saith thus Vide quam luculenter quamque dilucide mysticam interpretatus est mensam quae est incruenta hostia Thymiama vero purum appellat sacras preces c. See saith Chrysostome how plainly and manifestly hée dooth interpret the mysticall Table which is the vnbloodie Sacrifice Hée calleth the holy prayers which are offered vp after the sacrifice pure incense For this perfume is it that refresheth God not that which is taken from the rootes that grow in the earth but that is breathed out of a pure heart And after hée hath noted that the Sacrifices of the olde law were very many hee saith thus Quae omnia noua gratia superueniens vno complectitur sacrificio vnam ac veram statuens hostiam All which sacrifices the new grace that succeeded dooth comprehend in one Sacrifice ordayning but one which is the right Sacrifice in deede Who can write more plainely for the proofe of one onely Sacrifice that our sauiour Christ offered once for all then Chrysostome dooth in this place Yea hee proceedeth yet further and saith thus Habemus nos in nobis ipsis varias immolationes non quae iuxta legem incedunt sed quae decent Euangelicam grâ—tiam visne has cognoscere victimas quas habet Ecclesia quum sine sanguine sine fumo sine altari caeterisque ceremonijs munus euangelicum sursum ascendit ad Deum c. And wee also haue in our selues sundrie offerings which procéede not according to the law but such as are séemely for the grace of the gospell But wilt thou know those Sacrifices which the Church hath when the sacrifice of the gospell ascendeth vp vnto God without blood without smoake and without Aulter and the rest of the Ceremonies which is also the cleane and vnspotted sacrifice Hearken to the holy Scripture which dooth plainely expound vnto thée this difference and varietie The first Sacrifice therefore is that which I haue spoken of before that spirituall and mysticall gift whereof Paule speaketh when hée saith thus Jmitatores estote Dei c. Bée yee followers of God Ephe. 5. as deerely beloued children and walke in loue euen as Christ loued vs and gaue him selfe for vs a sacrifice and oblation of a sweete sauour vnto God c. It were too long to set downe here all the woordes of Chrysostome in this place The Offerer Tom. 1. or some of his fellows may reade them as they stand written in the Homilie afore mentioned It is manifest that Chrysostomes meaning was not to maintaine the opinion of the popish Catholiques which hold that in their blessed Masse is offered a sacrifice propitiatorie for the sins both of the quicke and the deade The same Chrysostome in his 17. Tom. 4. In Epist ad Heb. hom 17. Homilie vpon the Epistle to the Hebrews writeth thus Nonne per singulos dies offerrimus Offerrimus quidem sed ad recordationem facientes mortis eius Et vna est haec hostia non multae Quomodo vna est non multae Quia semel oblata est c. Doo not wée offer euery day In déede wée doo offer but wée doo it for a remembrance of his death And this sacrifice is but one and not many And how is it but one and not many Bicause it was offred but once it was offred in the holiest place of all and this sacrifice which wée offer is the Paterne or example thereof wée doo alwaies offer one and the selfe same thing And after many words to the same end hée saith thus Non aliud sacrificium sicut Pontifex sed idipsum semper facimus magis autem recordationem sacrificij operamur Wee offer not another sacrifice as the high Priest did
but wee doo alwaies make one and the same sacrifice but wee doo rather worke the remembrance of a sacrifice Except our Aduersaries haue vtterly lost the vse of Reason they must needes see that Chrysostomes meaning was to teach that it is not the holy Eucharist but the death and passion of Christ whereof the Eucharist is a remembraunce that is the sacrifice propitiatorie whereby our sinnes are taken away Euen in the iudgement of Chrysostome therefore the Masse which you call blessed is in deede curssed bicause it is derogatory to the office of Christ Iesus whose comming into this worlde was to saue sinners And hee onely it is that hath saued his people from their sinns by making a sacrifice of him selfe once for all By which one sacrifice once made hee hath made perfect as many and bee made holie that is all the Elected and chosen children of God So that now there is no more sacrifice for sinne Hebr 10. As the Apostle hath written to the Hebrews Chapter 10. But what should I make any more to doo about this matter sith the Scripture is plaine on our side Sit Deus verax Psalm 116. omnis autem homo mendax Let GOD the author of the scriptures bée true and euery man a liar Now the last point of doctrine that you charge the Protestants with is the abolishing of Christes sacraments of all the graces and goodnesse by them conferred vnto vs. To this I say that no learned Protestant either hath doth or will abolish or consent to the abolishing of any one sacrament that our sauiour Christ hath instituted or of any grace or goodnes cōferred to vs by them Wée confesse with S. Augustine Ad Ianuarium Epist. 118. August ad Ianuarium 118. that our sauiour Christ hath instituted verie fewe sacraments and that the same are verie effectuall as is Baptisme and the Communion of the bodie and blood of our sauiour Christ These two sacraments wee acknowledge to bee instituted by our sauiour Christ as sacraments that is outward and visible signes representing inward inuisible and spirituall graces In Baptisme the outward and visible signe is water and the inward inuisible and spirituall grace is forgiuenes of sinnes and regeneration or new byrth both which we haue by the death and resurrection of Christ and in that sacrament wee receiue a seale and pledge of the same Yea and where wee are by nature the children of Gods wrath wee are by Baptisme receiued into the church and assured that wee are now the children of God ioyned and graffed into the bodie of Christ and are become his members and that wee doo grow into one bodie with him Yea and being assured that Gods couenant and promise made to faithfull Abraham and to his seede belongeth to vs and to our seede bicause belieuing in Christ wee bee the spirituall posteritie of Abraham wée are bould to baptise our children as fellow members togither with vs of the same mystical bodie of Christ that it hath pleased our heauenly Father to make vs members of And when they bee able to learne wee doo teach them to belieue and acknowledge that they bee so and to endeuour in their life to expresse that duetie both to God and man which was at their baptisme professed and promised In the other sacrament which we doo commonly call the Lords supper the outward and visible signe is breade and wine both which wee doo according to Christes commaundement receiue For hee hath said Take eate this is my bodie and drinke yee all of this for this is the Cup of the new testament in my blood c. And wee are assured by Faith that as wee doo receiue the breade and wine into our mouthes and stomacks euen so wee doo by faith receiue into our soules the very body and blood of Chryst that heauenly foode whereby our soules are refreshed and fed vnto euerlasting life And this bodie blood of Christ are the heauenly parte of this sacrament remooued from all outward senses But wée doo not belieue as you popish Catholiques would haue vs belieue that the substance of the bread and wine in this sacrament is turned into the substance of the bodie and blood of Christ for so it could not bee a sacrament which must haue in it both an outward and visible signe and an inward inuisible grace Wherefore the bread and wine must remaine in their natures and properties Neither doo wée belieue that this sacrament was ordeined to bee a sacrifice to God the father for the remission of sinnes for wee know that onely Christ Iesus hath bin and is able and worthy to offer sacrifice for the deliuerance of mankinde from sinne And that hee hath by that sacrifice that hee made of himselfe once for all fully satisfied for the sinnes of the whole world and hath left nothing for vs to doo but firmely to fixe our faith in him and thankefully to take the vse of this eternall sacrifice which wee chiefly doo when wee come worthely to the Lords table bee partakers of that holy sacrament Now if you thinke that I haue doone that which you required the learned Protestant to doo then shame not to yeelde and recant and bee no longer an obstinate and wilfull blinde popish Catholique which is an Antichristian schismaticke But bee a tractable and an obedient Scholler of Christ Iesus hearkening to and belieuing the gospell of Christ which is the glad tidings of free pardon and full forgiuenes of all our sinnes by the merites and mediation of our onely Lord and sauiour Iesus Christ protesting to hold euerie gospell that is contrary to this Gospell accursed as saint Paule willed the Galathians to doo So shall you bee a right Catholique Christian holding and professing that Catholique faith which Christ himselfe commanded his messengers to teach Catholiquely when hee sayde thus Euntes in mundum vniuersum docete omnes gentes baptizantes eos in nomine patris Math. 28. filij spiritus sancti c. Going into all the world teach all nations baptizing them in the name of the father of the sonne and of the holy ghost teaching them to obserue all those things that I haue commaunded you This is the Catholique doctrine that wee haue heard and learned and doo belieue it By hearing this woord of the gospell or glad tidings of free pardon and forgiuenesse of sinnes our God hath wrought in vs such an assurance of Saluation that wee doubt nothing thereof And this assuraunce woorketh in vs an vnfayned loue towards him that hath adopted predestinated and called vs to bee meete Images of his sonne and one of vs towards another although not in such perfection as hee hath loued vs and as hée commaundeth vs to loue one another yet in some measure and in such measure as hee in mercie alloweth of Wee protest therefore that wee will hold this faith and still craue the encrease of this faith and that wée may grow ritch in
those Ceremonies To bée briefe the first Catholique church did acknowledge none to bée her vniuersall head but Christ Iâ—sus onely and shée submitted her selfe to bee gouerned in matters of faith by his spirite which spirite did in déede gouerne hir in the vnderstanding of the scriptures which are the rule of Christian Religion And in ciuill gouernement shee submitted herselfe to Princes and other Potentats acknowledging that God hath giuen vnto them the power of the sword and hath made them his reuengers vpon earth coÌ„maunding them to vse that power in defending innocents and in punishing of such as doo transgresse his lawes But your Romish Catholique church must haue a Pope to bee hir vniuersall head vnder the name of Christes vicar generall and hee must haue absolute power vpon earth diriued from the Apostle Peter that neuer tooke vpon him selfe any such power but willed all Christians to submit themselues to all estates of men euen for the Lord Iesus sake Yea hee willed them to honour all men to loue brotherly fellowship to feare God and to honour the king 1. Peter 2. 1. Peter 2. But your Pope must haue power ouer all men euen ouer Princes to whom Peter submitted him selfe and willed al christians to doo the like Yea hée must haue power to depose all such Princes as will not bow to him and bee his Executioners in executing the paines of death vpon all such as it pleaseth him to take for Heretikes Such Princes dooth your Pope take vpon him to depose to depriue them of all princely dignitie to set vp in their place such as will submit them selues vnto him become his sworne vassalles And that he may the more easily bring these things to passe hée absolueth all the subiects of such Princes from their dutifull oth of obedience which they haue dutifully taken to those their leage and naturall Princes Yea as late and daily practises doo teach they spare not to promise the kingdome of God to such subiects as will most vndutifully most vnnaturally murder not onely their naturall countrimen but also their naturall Princes By these differences it apreareth how great the difference is betwixt the first Romish church which was in déede Catholique and yours which you call catholique but is in déede Cacolike But now you conclude that if the learned Protestant can prooue that the priuate conuenticles congregations of the Protestants were the first bringers foorth of the sacred Bible and written woord of God the chiefe preseruers and defenders of the same in all times and ages from all Iewes Gentiles Heretikes and schismatiks then you wil reuolt and recant as you haue saide before To this I say on the behalfe of the learned Protestant that neither the Catholique church nor any other congregations haue bin the first bringers foorth of the sacred Bible c. For those bookes which are called the Bible were brought foorth and written before our sauiour Christ sayd thus to the Iewes Scrutamini scripturas c. Ioh. 5. Ioh. 5. Serch the scriptures c. And as for the preseruing and defending of them from Iewes Gentiles c. I say that it hath not bin the worke of man but of God him selfe who is the only Author of the same Apocal. 6. In the sixt chapter of saint Iohns Reuelations it is written that when the third seale of that booke which was sealed with seuen seales was opened there was a voyce which came from the midst of the foure beasts which saide to him that sate vpon the blacke horse had a balaunce in his hand Wine and oyle see thou doo not hurt In the iudgment of all learned interpreters wine and oyle doo in that place signifie the scriptures which God would not suffer to bee hurt by any mans interpretation no not in the time of most déepe Ignorance The Iewes could neuer corrupt the text of the Canonicall scriptures although they lacked no good will to haue corrupted them Neither could your Popish catholiques at any time corrupt those scripcures for God hath reserued a Remnant of the Iewes with whom those scriptures are and alwaies haue bin had in such estimation and reuerence that they would neuer leaue them to any that would corrupt them and this hath God wrought by them vsing them as his instruments therein In like manner the Grecians haue bin his instruments in kéeping the Gréeke text both of the olde and newe testament from all manner of Corruption in all partes thereof that doo concerne any parte of the substance of our Religion so that though your Popish Catholiques would as no doubt they are willing enough yet they can not corrupt either the Hebrew or Gréeke text Thus if you will you may sée maister Offerer that God alone by such meanes as hée hath dooth and will vse hath bin the bringer foorth of the sacred Bible and other holy scriptures for the holy men of God did speake as the holy spirite of God did mooue them to speake 2. Pet. 1. 2. Peter 1. And it is hée that hath vsed his good meanes both in discerning of the holy writings from the prophane and also in preseruing and defending of them from all maner corruption Wherefore if you minde to bée as good as your woord you must reuolt and recant The third Offer The Offerer Third Shew mee good reason why yee Protestants doo belieue our Catholique Church enforming and telling you this to bee the woord of God written the true Bible and sacred scriptures and doo refuse to credit hir in the true sense and vnderstanding of the same Scripture shee being vndoubtedly led with the spirite of God in them both For if the Catholique Church had the spirit of God in discerning and iudging the true Scriptures of God from the rest not Scriptures why should not wee belieue that same Catholique church gouerned and led by the same spyrite in giuing the true sense meaning and vnderstanding of the Scriptures When yee shal be able to render a sufficient reason of the one and not of the other I shall then yeelde and recant and not before Crowley There is no reason why wée should shewe you good reason why wée doo that thing which none of vs either haue done doo or minde to doo In beliuing that the Bible and scriptures that wee haue is the true Bible and scripture wée doo as the people of Sichar did Iohn the fourth chapter They said to the woman that told them of Iesus Iam non propter tuam orationem credimus c. Iohn 4. Now doo wée belieue not bicause of the tale that thou hast told vs for wee our selues haue heard and doo know that this is very Christ the sauiour of the world Euen so wee confesse that when wee were amongst you wée heard you talke of a Bible scriptures wée were desirous to sée them but you kept them from vs by all the meanes that you coulde deuise but at the
Christ which was 70. yéeres after as it is supposed that Peter was made bishop of Rome So that the church vsed none of those things that were diuised by him for the space of those 70. yéeres of the first 300. yeeres After this Alexander Sixtus 1. was made bishop of Rome in the yeere 121. after the incarnation of our sauiour Christ if the hystories bee true and the fourescore yeere after the supposed entring of Peter into the Byshopricke of Rome This man diuised sundrie things as Sanctus sanctus sanctus to bée songe in the celebration of the Lords supper But heere I must note how vnlikely this is to bée true for as saint Augustine hath written in the 7. August li. 9. Conf. Ca. 7. Chapter of the 9. booke of his confessions the custome of singing in churches was not begun in the Latine church before the dayes of Ambros who liued about the yeere of our Lord 380. And more ouer it can not bee prooued by any hystories that the Christians had any liberty to builde any church in the citie Rome before the time of Constantine the Emperoure who builded at his owne charges the first churches that the Christians had in Rome But let it bée as Platina hath written in the life of Sixtus the first Hée commanded that Sanctus sanctus sanctus that is holy holy holy should bee songe in the celebration that is in the ministration of the cōmunion But I pray you marke what Platina saith further Nuda primo haec erant c. At the first those things were bare and naked and all thinges were handled simply For when Peter did consecrate hée vsed the prayer Our father Iames the bishop of Hierusalem encreased or enriched these mysteries and so did Basill and other For Celestinus gaue the Introite of the Masse Gregorie the Kyrie eleison Telesphorus the Gloria in excelsis Deo Gelasius the first gaue the Collations and Hierome the Epistle and the Gospell Haleluia was taken from the church of Hierusalem The Credo from the counsell of Néece Pelagius inuented the cōmemoration of the deade Leo the third inuented the Incense Innocent the first inuented the kissing of the Paxe And Sergius ordained that Agnus Dei should bée songe But séeing that in the daies of Sixtus fewe were founde by reason of the often murders or slaughters of Christians that durst professe the name of Christ and the Christians in France did desire to haue a bishop Sixtus did send vnto them one Peregrinus a citizen of Rome c. Thus far Platina By these woords of Platina it appeareth that during the first 80. yeeres after saint Peters supposed entring into the bishopricke of Rome there was no more vsed in the ministration of the Lords supper but the Lords prayer which beginneth thus Our father which arte in heauen c. Celestinus that gaue the Introite of the Masse was not bishop in Rome before the ende of 420. yeeres after Christ so that for the space of 420. yéeres your Masse had no Introite That Gregorie that appointed the Kyrie eleison was made bishop of Rome in the yéere 590. after Christ so that your Masse lacked that parte for the space of 600. yeeres almost Telesphorus added the Gloria in excelsis about 130. yeeres after Christ so that your Masse did lack that parte so longe time Gelasius the first that diuised the Collations was bishop of Rome about 490. yeeres after Christ so that your Masse lacked hir Collations almost 500. yéeres Hieronimus that added the Epistle and Gospell was neuer bishop either in Rome or else where Hee liued in Bethlehem about 380. yéeres after Christ so that your Masse had no Epistle or Gospell for 380. yeeres after Christ And your Halleluia was taken from the church of Hierusalem by Gregorie the first who was bishop of Rome about the yéere of our Lord 590. The Nicene Créede could not be vsed before that councell wherein it was agréed vpon which was 330. yeeres after Christ And Pelagius that inuented the remembrance of the deade was made bishop of Rome in the yeere of our Lord 556. so that for the space of so many yeeres after Christ there was no remembrance of the deade in your Masse Leo the third that inuented the burning of Incense was made bishop of Rome in the yeere 796. after Christ so that for the space of so many yeeres there was no burning of Incense in churches Innocent the first was made bishop of Rome in the yeere 406. hée inuented the kissing of the Paxe at Masse so longe therefore was your Masse without that ceremonie And Sergius that appointed the singing of Agnus Dei was made bishop of Rome in the yeere after Christ 694. or there about so that your Masse lacked hir Agnus Dei for the space almost of 700. yeeres after Christ Now M. Offerer consider with your selfe I pray you whether the learned Protestant may not as easily prooue the antiquitie of his communion booke euen from the Apostles time as you may prooue your Authenticall seruice and ministration of sacraments now daily openly practized If you would with indifferent iudgment weigh al that I haue here written I doo not doubt but you would cōfesse that during the first 90. yéeres after Christs ascention there was no prescribed order set downe in any booke for publike seruice or ministration of sacramēts other then that which is contained in the scriptures Wherefore there is none so great a cause of misliking in oure common booke as that there be so many of your latter inuētions allowed of in it And surely if our princes people would yéelde to a perfect reformation wee might make our communion booke a great deale lesse then it is by blotting out of it all that hath bin inuented by your bishops of Rome Thus I doo thinke I haue said enough to cause you to recant although you would not before The twelfth Offer Offerer I demaund of the learned Protestant to know cause and reason why their congregations doo admit and receiue all bishops priests deacons and other officers spirituall ordered by our Catholike church as men lawfull and sufficient to preach the word of God to minister the Sacramēts to exercise all spirituall iurisdiction in no lesse wise but rather more then if they had bin ordred in their owne congregations whereas the Catholike church of Christ dooth not acknowledge any man of their ordering and calling to be any whit the more fit for any spirituall function in Christ his church then other cōmon lay men When therefore the learned Protestant shal be able to shew good cause and reason why our Catholike church hauing by their owne consent and approouing lawfull priestes bishops and spirituall ministers not to be also the lawfull true and Catholike church of Christ I will then recant and not before Crowley This Offer is altogither friuolous and foolish For what reason was it that mooued this vnreasonable Offerer to require the learned
that hee will neuer remember them anie more 1 Iohn 2 and that therefore there is no more sacrifice for sin And in the second chapter of S. Iohns first Epistle wee are assured that Christ Iesus the righteous is the propitiation for our sinnes Your opinion therefore concerning a Sacrifice propitiatorie to bée offered in your Masse is blasphemous and dooth derogate from the glorie of Christ who is our onely mediator whose mediation is sufficient and néedeth no helpe of your massing Préesthoode Your penaunce also is in some part blasphemous as in that you teache your ghostly children to satisfie to God for theyr sinnes by suche workes as you enioyne them to doo And the fruites thereof which you call worthy as fasting watchinge praying and all straightnes of lyfe are supersticious and Hipocriticall and therefore we speake against them Your vowes your inuocation of Saints and your prayers for the soules departed are superfluous and in your meaning superstitious in very déed very wicked blasphemous For what néede hath a Christian to adde any vowe to that which is made in baptisme sith no man can truely say that eyther he hath or could performe that vow so but that God might iustly charge him with the lacke of performaunce thereof That vowe is to forsake the deuill and all his works and pompes the vanities of the wicked world and all the sinfull lustes of the fleshe To beléeue all the articles of the Christian fayth and to kéepe all the commaundementes of God all the dayes of our lyfe If this vowe bee so straight that not one amongst thousandes can bée sound that dooth not fayle in performing of it then is it more then superfluous to adde any other which may séeme to bée more straight and hard to be performed then this is or séeme to bée Your praying vnto Saintes also is superfluous For God himselfe that is all sufficient and able to doo for vs all that we doo or can desire yea and much more then wee can deuise to craue of him hath commaunded vs to call vpon hym yea and he hath promised to heare vs and to giue vs cause to glorifie him for our deliueraunce In the 50. Psal Psalme 50. the prophet Dauid saith thus in the person of God himself Jnuoca me in die tribulationis eruaÌ„ te honorificabis me Call vpon me in the day of thy trouble I wil deliuer thée thou shalt honor me And in the Psalm 81 Open thy mouth wide Psal 81 145. and I wil fil it And in the Psa 145. The Lord is hard at hand with euery one that calleth vpon him which eueryone the calleth vpoÌ„ him faithfully Esay the Prophet cha 63. Esay 63 Made his praier vnto God not to AbrahaÌ„ not to Isacke not to Iacob The apostle Paule bowed his knées that is to say hee prayed to the father of our Lord Iesus Christ that is the diuine maiestie not to the Saintes or holy Angels Ephe 3. Ephes 3 Our Sauiour Christ teaching his schollers how they should pray sayth thus When thou wilt pray enter into thy chamber and when thou hast shut thy doore pray vnto thy father in secrete and thy father which séeth in secret shall giue vnto thée And againe he sayth On this wise therefore shall you pray Our father which art in heauen c. Math 6. Math 6. By these places of Scripture and many other we are encouraged to make our prayers vnto God and to be assured that he dooth heare vs and that he will graunt our peticions For hée is both able and ready to helpe vs as a most mighty and mercifull father It is therefore a thing altogeather vayne and superfluous and vnnecessarie to make any prayers to any other In lyke manner it is a thing altogeather vnnecessary to make prayers for the soules departed For if they be departed in the Lord they be happie and blessed as wee are certified by that voyce which came from Heauen Apo 14. Apoc â—â— And on the contrary if they departed not in the Lord then are they most vnhappie and cursed so that thereis no saluation for them Nothing that we can doo can profit them So that in the one case they doo not stand in néede of our prayers and in the other our prayers can doo them no good Your prayer therefore for the dead is altogether superfluous and vnnecessary Your opinion in this poynt is grounded vpon no Canonicall Scripture but vpon an imagination that you haue conceiued concerning the meaning of Iudas Machabaeus 2. Mach 12 2 Mach 12. Of what authoritie the booke is may appeare in that which Saint Hierome hath written in hys preface vpon the bookes of Salmon Hierom praef in pruden Salomon Thus hath Saint Hierome written there Sicut ergo Iudith Tobiae Machabeorum libros legit quidem Ecclesia sed eos inter canonicas scriptura non recipit sic haec duo volumina c. In English thus Euen as the Church dooth in déede reade the bookes of Iudeth and Tobias and of the Machabies but doth not receiue them amongst the cannocall Scriptures euen so she may reade these two bookes meaning the Booke of wisedome and Ecclesiasticus to the edifying of the people but not for the confirming of Ecclesiasticall doctrine By this it appeareth that the foundation of your imagination is verie weake and not sufficient to beare that waightie buildinge that you doo lay vpon it Which is as weighty as an article of our fayth The authoritie of that booke may bée séene also euen in the last lines of the booke wherein the authour dooth shewe himselfe to stand in doubt whether he had doon so well as he wished to doo and in case he had not he craueth pardon at the handes of his readers And he vseth a similitude to mooue his readers to pardon him Which is not found in any of the writers of the Canonicall Sriptures And in the latter part of the 14. Chapter of that second booke of the Machabies 2 Macha 14 theris great commendation giuen to one Razias for that he dyd murder himselfe whych can not make for the credite of the author of the booke neither of the matter contained in the booke But let the booke bée of as great authority as this Offerer wold with it to be what hath Iudas Machabaeus doone that may mooue vs to thinke that he had any such meaning as this Offerer and his fellowes doo imagine the he had The Historian sayth that afâ—er the Armie of Gorgias was by the mightie power of God put to flight Iudas hauing gathered his armie togeather came to the Cittie Odolla And when the seauenth day was come and they were purified 2 Mach Chap 12. according to the custome they did in the same place spende the time of the Saboth And the next day following Iudas came with his company to take vp the deade bodies of them that were slaine and