hand may decide stay determine and conclude all matters of controversie in the Church though all the Elders other brethren be against them Cons art 34. Plea for infaÌ„ts p. 180. to 185. CoÌ„teâ—p pag. 177. 4 VVe professed heretofore that no Sacraments should be ministred untill the Pastors or Teachers were chosen and ordeyned into their Office Now it is hield by some that seing all the holie things of God are the Churches and people without Officers are a Church therefore they may without Officers haue the use of the Sacraments and all the holie things of God consequently may receive in by Baptisme confirme by the Lords Supper cast out by excommunication c. And in this writing sent unto you it may be observed how they inferre that people without Officers may cast out and therefore may receive in there being one power for both Conf. art 21. Conterp pag. 176.177 5 VVe had learned that none may usurp or execute a ministerie but such as are rightly called by the Church wherof they stand ministers unto such Offices and in such manner as God hath prescribed in his word Now it is held by some that people out of office may execute all the works and duties of the ministerie for Baptisme Lords Supper CeÌ„sures c. And these men in their second exception here vvrite there is one power for receiving in casting out that people without Officers may doe both as is observed before Conf. art 1.10 17 18 19 21 23 24 25 26 27.34 36. throughout the Conf. Apol other of our Treatises as Defence against Mr. Sm. pag. 10 13 88 c. 6 VVe learned and used heretofore to applie to our estate and use the things that the Scriptures teach concerning the Governours and people in Israel Now vve are excepted opposed against if we doe so vvith these exceptions and the like viz. that they had civill auctoritie and government which the Church hath not that they could not in Israel forgive one anothers sinne as we can now that the people now have more power then in Israel because now we follow Christ into heaven And yet the people were typically caried in by the Hyepriest in the pretious stones on his shoulders brest as the most holy place it self vvas a type of heaven whereas the people might not follow the High priest into the most holie place c. And vvhat if any other vvould say that by like reason the Elders novv should haue more povver then the Elders in Israel because the Elders novv follovv Christ into heaven vvhereas the Elders then might not follovv the high priest into the most holie place And that Kings should have more povver nov in religion then the Kings of Israel because Kings novv follovv Christ into heaven vvhereas the Kings then might not follovv the hiepriest into the most holie place no nor so much as into the holie place to come to the altar to offer incense 2 Chron. 26. And note here also that Christ and the Apostles reasoning from the civil estate of the Governours people of Israel applying the things of it to the kingdome and Church of Christ to the Governours and people of the Church novv should by this nevv learning of these men be thought to misapplie those Scriptures and places so alledged by them As Mat. 21.24 Iohn 10.34 Act. 1.20 Ephes 12.13.19.20.21 and in a number the like places Plea for Infants p. 166.167 268 c. Treat against the Anabap. p 16. c. some grounds tending this way in the Apol p. 108 c. in Answer to M. Iacob p. 7 13 c. 7 VVe held that the Baptisme of Rome vvas as true Baptisme as circumcisioÌ„ in the Apostasie of Israel vvas true circumcision and needed not to be renounced and repeated novv vve vvere taught that the Baptisme aforesaid is an Idol And vve knovv that all Idols yea and all monuments of idolatrie are to be renounced and rejected Esa 30.22 And an Idol is nothing in the wold sayth the Apostle 1 Cor. 8 4. so as then such baptisme is nothing such people are an unbaptised people ought therefore vvith the Anabaptists to get themselues baptised Thus if I would follow their course you may see I could note dovvne some doctrines and assertions not all of the soundest vvhich our opposites have of late delivered and given forth although I have hitherto held my peace there about Neyther vvould I yet publish them if there vvere or might be hope of their repentance and amendement but for your better information concerning them their dealing I have thus imparâ—ed them unto you By vvhich any may consider vvhether it vvere not high time for us to look to these persons and to these things vvhen they vere come to this passe grovven to such an heigth among us Now next for ansvver of their exceptions sent unto you against us though it be not so meet to be done in a private Letter seeing vve have published the causes of the division they made whereunto they have not yet given answer yet have I thought it not amisse upon this occasion and unto you as your case stands to vvrite somevvhat thereabout For the first therefore which is made by comparing together the understanding of Mat. 18 17. with the Confession Art 24. and the Apol. pag. 62.63 I haue already vvritten and published a Treatise concerning the exposition of that Scripture vvhere also the reasons alledged in the Apologie are purposely and particularly treated of to vvhich I referre you thereabout And vvhat dealing is this of theirs that having made such a division as they have done they leave the Treatise unansvvered which was purposely written upon that occasion and argument and yet cease not privately thus to insinuate as they doe Besides if for their vvonted Phrase the Church of Elders they vvould use such termes as othervvhere the Scriptures in our translations haue and as the vvord it self doth signifie namely the Congregation of Elders or the Assemblie of Elders or the like then both themselues others might sooner perceive the vanitie of their error and the light of the truth against theÌ„ Neyther should they forget hovv M. Ainsvvorth himself in his Ansvver to Mr. Bernard shevveth that the vvord is sometime so used for the Congregation or Assemblie of Elders and Governours Mr. Ainsw Conterpoys pag. 113. Lastly you may observe in the Article of our Confession here alledged Conf. art 24. that for the declaration and proof thereof these Scriptures among other are cited Psal 122.3 Lev. 20.4 5. 24.14 Numb 5.2.3 Deut. 13.9 all vvhich doe directly carry us for this matter to the Church of Israel and constitution thereof vvhich novv through love of their error they vvould not be brought unto for the consideration and deciding of the matter betvveen us Observe also hereabout that the povver of receiving in and cutting off given
because of it vve baptise them not againe vvhen at the same tyme vve baptise others that vvere never baptized before And also that the leaving repenting of all the corruptions and apostasie among thē vvill not satisfy the Anabaptists unles vve leave also the baptisme it self and hold vvith them that there is not so much as one post or threshold of Gods remayning in the apostate Church as some also of these that thus except against us have not stuck to affirme They that are vvise and unpartiall vvill carefully consider and regard these things though these men them selves cannot yet be brought so to doe And novv I vvil proceed to the next objection For the fift vvith which the fourth and eight in the printed copie doe agree it vvas in deed sayd that the baptisme of the Church of Rome is true baptisme And so it is as the circumcision in Israels apostasie vvas true circumcision and not to be repeated agayne And if it be not a true baptisme it is a false baptisme And false baptisme is not Gods baptisme nor Gods ordinance For God is the author of truth not of falshood Moreover a true baptisme are vve bound to have when vve have the meanes to attayne it Els the neglect thereof is sinne VVherefore they that hold it not to be true baptisme must become Anabaptists and be rebaptized VVhich thing let them vvell look unto And seeing in the printed copie they saye they doe still denye it to be true baptisme I vvill here therefore insist upon it somevvhat more And first it must be remembred that vvhen I sayd the Baptisme of the Church of Rome is true baptisme they did not onely deny it so to be vvhich alone they speak of here but affirmed it also to be an Idol vvhereof here they speak not at all Note also that our speach vvas and is of the outvvard baptisme in the Church not of the invvard baptisme of the holy Ghost which is may be eyther vvith or vvithout the outvvard baptisme wherof none vvill offer to say that it is not true baptisme or that it is an Idol as vvas sayd of the other Novv therefore upon their opinions and assertions I reason further thus If the Baptisme had in the Church of Rome be not true baptisme then it is not the Lords baptisme ordeyned by him in his Church And if it be not that baptisme of the Lords thē they which have no other but it should not in that estate eate the Lords supper but should get the Lords baptisme afore they come to the Lords table For as in Israel none might eat of the Lords passeover that had not the Lords circumcision so novv may none eat the Lords supper that have not the Lords baptisme Exod. 12 48. Act. 2 41 42. 1 Cor. 10 1-4 with Act. 18.8 and 1 Cor. 11.26 And so by this doctrine opinion of theirs as often as they come to the Lords table in that estate they pollute and prophane it and eate and drinke judgment to themselves and therefore had need betymes to look unto it and to examine and judge themselves hereabout least they be judged of the Lord. 1 Cor. 11.28 Agayne there is but one baptisme as there is but one bodie one spirit one hope of our calling one fayth one God and Father of all c. Ephes 4.4.5.6 1 Cor. 12.13 Novv the baptisme had in the Church of Rome eyther is that one baptisme or is not it If it be that one then it is true baptisme vvithout all question If it be not then they which have no other but it have not that one baptisme spokē of by the Apostle in the Scriptures aforesaid and therefore must get it not onely afore they may come to the Lords table as is aforesaid but also that they may have the comfort of this one baptisme the true outward seale of Gods covenant to confirme unto them that they are baptized into that one bodie partakers of that one spirit heyres of that one hope of eternall life under that one Lord in that one fayth the children of that one God and father of all vvhich is above all and through all and in us all Othervvise so long as they neglect or deprive themselves thereof it vvill follovv upon them by their ovvne opinion and assertion vvhich they say they doe still hold that they stand in great sinne neglecting or contemning to have the true baptisme instituted by the Lord that they deprive themselves of great comfort and confirmation on of their fayth about the particulars aforesayd touching the bodie and spirite of the Lord the fayth and hope of the children of God even our Father in Iesus Christ Furthermore the baptisme had in apostate Churches eyther is a seale of the covenant of God or not If it be a seale of the Lords covenant then sure it is true baptisme If it be not then see vvhat great things vvill follovv thereupon As first that they vvhich have no other baptisme but it have not the outvvard baptisme that sealeth unto them the covenant of God and therefore must vvith the Anabaptists gette another that they may be assured they have the seale of Gods covenant of grace and salvation Secōdly that there neyther have ben nor shall be in Babylon any of Gods people under his covenant which is contrarie to that vvhich is vvritten Revel 18 4. vvhere the Lord shevveth that he hath his people vvhō by the words of his covenant he calleth thence saying Come out of her my people c. And if these men vvill say that themselves are not of such people there spoken unto then let them tell us vvhen and hovv they came under the covenant of God and let them also shevv it vvithout stablishing their owne righteousnes of vvorks thereby Thirdly that the baptisme novv had in apostate Churches is not ansvverable to the circumcisiō had in the apostasie of Israel For that circumcision though had in apostasie vvas true circumcision a seale of the Lords covenant to his people and therefore needed not to be renounced or repeated But the baptisme novv had in the apostasie of the Church of Rome they say is not true baptisme and so not a seale of the Lords covenant to his people novv as the other vvas then therefore must be renounced and another that is true obteyned And thus agayne in this they make themselves would make us straugers frō the policie of Israel as in the poynt of government also vvas observed before Neyther will it novv help them to alledge those Scriptures or the like as vve have produced heretofore against the Anabaptists to approve the reteyning of our baptisme had in apostasie vvithout renunciation or repetitiō thereof as namely 2 Chron. 30. chap compared with Exod. 12 48 49. Gen. 17 10-13 Lev. 26 14-44.45 46. Deut. 4 25-31.2 King 9 6. and 13 23. Psal 78 9-38 and 89 30-34 Ezech. 16 44-63 and 43 7-9.2 Thes 2 3-8 Rom. 11
repentance follovves them sometymes with judgment sometymes vvith mereie and compassion c. Levit. 26 15-45 Ezech. 16 59-62 Iudg. 2 1-20 c. Thus in Israel vvho vvere the Lords people it may be noted how they goe a whoring after their ovvne inventions fall into idolatrie and false vvorship runne into sinne after sinne and become an harlot transgressing the covenant on their part Exod. 32. Iudg. 2. and 3. with Psa 78 56-58 1 Sam. 7 3 4. 1 King 12 28-33 and 14.22.23.24 with 2 Chron. 12. and 13. and 1 King 19.10 Hos 6.7 and 8.1 Yet the Lord breaks it not on his part but sometymes of himself sometymes at the intreatie of his prophets servants he spareth them and doth not destroy them or presently give them a bill of divorce according to their demerit but in his mercie as a loving husband he cals them to repentance and to that end he sends unto them Prophets after Prophets a long tyme to dravve thē to amendement and cals them still his people and helps them and casts thē not of Yet so as besides his vvord sent unto them he also adjoyneth corrections punishmments both for avenging the quarrel of his covenant upon them and for procuring their conversion by all maner meanes vvhat may be As in the books of Moses and historie of the Iudges Samuel Kings and Chronicles compared vvith the Prophets may be seen And particularly in the Scriptures here noted before and the like as Exod. 33. and 34. c. Levit. 26 14.15-25-42-44.45 Iudg. 2.1 c. Psal 78. 1 King 13. and 16. and 18. 2 King 5.8.15.17 with Ier. 51.5 and Ezech 16.59.60 c. Hoseas and Amos their Prophecies c. And in these tvvo divers respects sometymes having reference to God sometymes to Israel may there many things in the Scriptures be observed to be spoken diversly For example Israel considered in themselues and their idolatrous estate are sayd to be vvithout God vvithout Priest to teach and vvithout lavv to forsake and break the covenant of the Lord to provoke the Lord to anger by their vanities not to be the Lords vvife but an harlot going a vvhoring after their ovvne inventions and having childrē of vvhooredomes yea and that the Lord is not with Israel or vvith any of Ephraim 2 Chron. 15.3 1. King 12.28.33 and 15.34 and 16 13.26.31-33 and 19.14 Hose 2 1-5 and 5.3.4 and 8.1 and 9.1 with Psalm 106.29.39 Ezech. 16. and 23. chap. 2 Chron. 25.7 But agayne being considered in respect of the Lord and his covenant into vvhich they vvere received and vvhich he breakes not on his part but calls them to repentance c. the Lord is called their God and they are called the people of the Lord and their children borne to the Lord and Israel not to have ben a vvidovve forsaken of God but that the Lord had mercie on them and pitied them and respected them because of his covenant vvith Abraham Isaac and Iacob and that he vvould not destroy them nor cast them off from him as yet c. And thus continued Israel a long tyme respected of the Lord notvvithstanding her apostasic c. Iudg. 2 1. c. 1 King 18 36. 2 King 9 6 Hos 4.6 12. and 5 4. and 7 10. and 8 2. 9 1. 14.1 2. Amos 7 15. with Psal 89 30-34 and Ezech. 16 20 60. and Ier. 51.5 and 2 King 13 23. Yet notvvithstanding in these tymes the Prophets taught the people to plead vvith their mother about her adulteries to separate themselves and not to come at the places of their vvorship nor to communicate vvith them and bring their sacrifices thither because in so doing they should multiply their transgressions c. Hos 2 1-5 and 4 12.14.15 Amos 4 4 5. and 5 4 5. And all these things are vvritten for our learning are to be applyed to the estate of the Churches in apostasie under the Gospel since Christ Rom. 15 4. with 1 Cor. 10.11 Moreover besides that the vvord Church is taken sometymes more largely sometymes more strictly vvhich about this question likevvise may be observed there is yet further also a double regarde that may be had of apostate Churches in all ages according as they are considered and spoken of in comparison with other people of divers sorts As namely Israel in apostasie being compared vvith the Syrians Philistims Moabites and other nations are called and ought to be accounted the people of God vvho have the onely true God for their God c. 2 King 3.8 15.17 and 9 6. c. But being compared vvith Iudah vvhich ruled vvith God and vvas faythfull vvith the Saincts she is called an harlot not the vvife of God but a vvhoore committing adulterie and compassing God about vvith lyes and deceit c. Hos 2.2.5 4 15. 5.3 4. and 9 1. and 11.12 c. In like maner the Church of Rome in apostasie being compared vvith the Ievves Turkes and Pagans they are and ought to be accounted Christians and the Temple of God VVhere also is verified that which the Apostle spake of Antichrists sitting in the Temple of God 2 Thes 2.4 not the Temple of Ierusalem as some to turne away the truth have imagined but the Temple of Christians the Church of God brought to the sayth of Christ and professing to be Christians as may appeare by these scriptures and the like compared together 2 Thes 2.4 with Ezech. 43.7.8 Zath 6.12.13 Ephes 2 11-13.19 21. 2 Cor. 6.16 Rev. 11.19 and as it is also under stood by all sound writers both old and new But agayne being compared vvith the auncient Church of Rome and other primitive Churches in the Apostles tymes and such as novv vvalke in their steps and in the good and old vvay ruling vvith God and abyding faythfull vvith his saincts she is called and is to be esteemed an harlot the great vvhoore the mother of the whooredomes and abhominations of the earth beleeving speaking lyes in hypocrisie giving heed to seducing spirits and having pleasure in unrighteousnes c. Revel 17.1.5 1 Tim. 4.1.2.3 2 Thes 2 3-10 11.12 And thus there being in divers respects a double consideration had of the Church of Rome novv as of Israel heretofore it vvill appeare hovv in one respect it may be sayd there is the Church of God or a true Church there in another respect there is an apostate or a false Church there as it is sayd by the Apostle of one and the same woman that she is dead and alive in divers respects 1 Tim. 5.6 And of the Iewes that they are enimies in one respect and yet beloved in another Rom. 11 28. So Iohn Baptist is Elias and is not Elias in divers respects Iohn 1 21. with Mat. 11 7-14 and 17 10-13 Iudas is an Apostle and yet a divel Mat. 10.2 4. Ioh. 6.70 The Ievves are the children of Abraham and yet the children of the divel Ioh. 8.33.34 As the Prophets also
called the Ievves the seed of the vvicked the seed of the adulterer and a false seede in one respect vvhen in other respects they acknovvledge them to be the seed of Abraham Iacob and Israel and so a true seed and people of the Lord. Esa 1 4. and 57 3 4. with 41 8. and 45 19. and 58 1. Hos 2 1 2. and 4 13. Esa 63 16 17. and 64 9. Ier. 31 36 37. Hof 4 6 12. and 3 4. and 14 2 3 4. And endles it vvere to recount the many speaches and severall considerations of things thus spoken of in the Scriptures Christ is vvithout Father and vvithout mother Heb. 7 3. and yet he hath Father and mother Luke 2 48 49. Ioh. 1 18. and 2 3. Christ vvas put to death in the flesh but quickned in the spirit 1 Pet. 3 11. Abraham is unrighteous in himself but righteous by fayth Rom. 4 3 5. The apostle Paul and all the regenerate serve the lavv of God and the lavv of sinne the one vvith the minde the other vvith the flesh Rom. 7 25. Peter is a disciple an Apostle and yet in other respect is by Christ called Sathan Mat. 10 2 and 16 23. A leprous Ievv is a true man and an Israelite but a corrupt diseased man to be put and kept out of the host of Israel till he be cleane Lev. 13 and 14 with 2 Chron. 26 20 21. Num. 12 10-15 The Temple is the house of God yet is made a denne of theeves Mat. 21 13. The Emperours of Rome Babylon and the other nations are Kings and higher povvers ordeyned of God Rom. 13 1. with Rev. 17.10 and Dan. 7 17. yet are they also in other respect Beasts Lyons Beares Leopards c. Rev. 12.3 13 1 2 with Dan. 7 3-6 So likewise the beast vvas and is not yet is Rev. 17 8. And a number the like may be observed in other places of the Scriptures compared together Novv to conclude this poynt if these things the like about apostate Churches and the mixture of mans inventions vvith Gods ordinances in apostasie be distinctly and carefully regarded they may be through the mercie of God some good meanes to stay people from Anabaptistrie other ill courses by the consideration of the things that are to be observed on the one hand and to bring men more soundly to separation from the apostasie of Antichrist by the consideratiō of the things to be observed on the other hand Somevvhat as it pleased God to give me to discerne I observed vvrote tending this vvay long since as may be seene in the Ansvver to Mr. Iacob Where also I noted my wonted using of this caution thereabout in respect of this or that estate as also may be seen in the Apologie where I spake with the same cautiō p. 109. lin 31.32 pag. 7. vvhere I spake of a double consideration of Christians in one respect true and in an other false as also of salvation now had in the Church of Rome pag. 13 and 47. vvhich necessarily implyeth the people of God and his covenant to be there For vvhosoever are saved they are the people of God and under his covenant in Christ But so much and so particularly I observed not then as since it hath pleased God to manifest thereabout God openeth his vvil the mysteries of his vvord vvhen and as he pleaseth that vve may still perceive and acknovvledge vve knovve but in part and that we may be earnest in prayer by all meanes indevour to grovv in grace and in the knovvledge of our Lord and Saviour Iesus Christ And thus much I thought at this tyme by this occasion to write unto you hereabout By which you may perceive hovv they vvhich for these things speak of us as if we were going back to England might by this colour also say vve are going back to Rome And you may consider vvith your self vvhether the people that lived in the Prophets tymes and were set against them in those dayes might not vvith such pretences and collections have sayd that the Prophets had ben declining to the apostate Israelites when they called and esteemed them to be the people of God acknovvledged the circumcision had in the apostasie to be true circumcision c. But novv I vvill proceed to their next objection For the sixt and last exception of theirs vvhich is about having the counsel help of the English Church at Leyden to vvhich therefore may be referred the ninth and the other three particulars annexed unto it in the printed copie note here as in the other before that they mentiō not the ansvvers that vvere then given hereabout As namely that vve vvould permit it though for some reasons vve absteyned from desiring it and sending for them about the matters in hand or giving our cōsent so to doe Of which poynt I shall vvrite more hereafter But first I would here knovv why they never speak of this that vve were constent to permit it Or vvas our permission of it a denying of the practise of it as novv they object in the printed copie Did Paul deny that vvhich he spake by permission though for some cause he did it not of commandement 1 Cor. 7 6. Or did Moses deny the practise of that vvhich he permitted though for good cause he vvould not enjoyne it Deut. 24 1. This thing then might have ben better observed and regarded of them then it hath ben specially seeing they knovve vve made question of the lavvfulnes of doing any more in this case then onely to permit it and shevved also then divers reasons thereabout some vvhereof I vvill novv mention As 1. that now the other Church and we were in peace together and if by this occasion the peace betvveene us should be broken they should not say of us that vve sent for them our care being vvhat in us layd to nourish peace betvveen us and to prevent cut off all occasions of division c. 2. That the Church of Leyden was in the same errour with those of our people who desired their help VVhereupon vve vvished it should be considered vvhether vve might approve of any to come in such case but such as vve knevv to hold and maynteyne the truth according to the vvord of God 3. That former experience vvith others might also justly cause us to be vvell advised and circumspect vvhat to doe in this behalf VVhich vvhen vve vvrote of to Leyden them selues acknovvledged that it vvas such as might justly make us cautelous but vvithall they vvrote hovv vve might esteeme better of them then of the other in divers respects as being more studious of our peace and more carefull of the cause of Christ and that whereas the other would have brought in new doctrines and fayths amongst us they if in any thing they opposed any of us Note here the terme of opposition thus used should doe it in defence of the common and
children such of them as are able to rejoyce and sorrovve with others And vve note this to be of telling men women and children in their ovvne persons because otherwise it is graunted that the Congregation is told according to order and rules of governement in the telling of the Elders And here it is to be remembred hovv it hath often ben signifyed that vvhether wee understand those words of telling the Church thus Tell the Congregation to weet according to the rules and order of governement appointed by God in his word Note here that the Elders sit in a publick place vvhere all that vvill may come and be present c. or thus Tell the Congregation of Elders not hindring or infringing any right or libertie of the brethren these come both to one end being rightly understood And about these things haue ben alledged these the like Scriptures Mat. 18 17. cōpared with Mat. 5 22. Deu. 21 18-20 Num. 35 12 24.25 with Deu. 19 11-18 Iosh 20 4-6 1 Sam. 2 25. Psal 82 1. Prov. 26 26. in the LXX compared with the Original Deut. 1 9-17 and 16 18. and 17 9-12 and 25 7 8 9 with Ruth 4 1-11 2 Chron. 19 5-11 Act. 6 11-13 and 20 17 18. Rom. 12 4-8 Luk. 12 42. 1 Cor. 4 1 2. and 5. chap. with Lev. 20 11. and Deut. 17 4-7 1 Cor. 6 1-5 12 28. 1 Thes 5 12-14 1 Tim. 3 5. and 5 17-21 Heb. 13 17. 1 Pet. 5 1-4 Secondly vve haue erred in that we haue so understood those vvords Tell the Church if he heare not the Church c. that the partie offending should not vvithout taking consent of the people be admonished by the Elders wherupon to proceed against him And that the sinner vvas not to be excommunicated Viz. the admonition so giuen by the Elders as is afore sayd for despising the admonition given by the Elders onely Touching vvhich vve haue agreed heretofore that vve erred from these Scriptures 2 Chron. 19 8.9.10 and 1 Thes 5 12. compared with Deut. 17 8-12 c. And here agayne it is to be remembred hovv it hath ben shevved that the speaches of telling the Elders and of the casting out of persons for despising the admonition given by the Elders onely are to be understood in respect of ministration and governement committed unto them by Christ and the Church and not so to be taken as to exclude the Church or Christ the head for vvhom they doe administer but that vve should alvvay understand obserue these things according as in Israel in the due proportion and perpetuall equitie thereof and according to the Scriptures here alledged in this and the other particular aforesayd and therefore not to abridge the brethren of their assent or any right that doth apperteyne unto thē by the vvord of God but to doe all things according to the rules prescribed therein as before hath ben shevved To vvhich ende likevvise it is to be remembred how it hath ben often signified and declared that the povver of the holy things of God given to the Church is properly and primarily Christs secundarily and by communication the Churches instrumentally and ministerially the Officers vvho are the Ministers of Christ and the Church And that thus vve would still be understood As also that thus the admonition being given as is aforesayd may be sayd to be the admonition of Christ of the Church of the Elders in divers respects according as is sayd before Thirdly cōcerning that rule in general we have had this errour among us that it hath ben understood to be a newe rule for the time of the Gospel which Israel had not VVhereabout may be considered cōpared together these and the like Scriptures as followeth Mat. 18.15 with Lev. 19 17. Prov. 25.9.10 Also Mat. 18.16 with Deu. 19.15 and 17.6 Ioh. 8 17. 2 Cor. 13 1. And Mat. 18 17. with Mat. 5.22 Deut. 21.18 19 20. Numb 35 12-30 with Deut. 19 12-17 c. together with the other Scriptures mentioned here before in the other particulars as in them may be seen And for all these things if any can shew us better or othervvise by the vvord of God vve shall God willing be readie to yeeld unto it THus vvas the Churches agreement about these things VVhere note that the first of these about admonition by the Elders was sooner agreed upon there being but fevv in respect that excepted and stood against it vvhen some of the chief of them yeelded unto it The latter about our practise understanding of Mat. 18 17. was verie long debated among us and after much reasoning had thereabout vve vvere often and earnestly urged by the Opposites to giue sentence and come to an yssue about it So in the end vve agreed concerning it as here before is set dovvne VVhich vvhen vve had done they signifyed their dissent and that they could no longer vvalke vvith us practising accordingly And so aftervvard they vvent avvay and left us And this is the very cause of their departing from us vvhatsoever other thing be alledged by them or any other thereabout And this I intreat the Reader vvell to obserue because othervvise reading their foresayd differences and objections in the letter and printed copie vvhereabout they haue busied themselues so much he may take them for causes of their separation which in deed vvere not And whereas thus it pleaseth thē to trouble mens mindes with their positions and intend in the setting of thē dovvne to cause disgrace to this poor Church which they so unjustly haue left as if we had apostated and left the auncient sayth it shall be good for them to try and warrant those their positions and differences as also their separation from us by the touchstone of the vvord of God as now by the answer thereunto given they are occasioned to doe And vvithall let them shew out of the Scripture hovv it can be vvarranted that a minister vvho hath not himself received true baptisme may administer the Lords Supper or that a people not having true baptisme may receive the Lords supper as these haue done seeing themselues deny the baptisme of the Church of Rome By this opiniō the Martyrs of later yeeres had not true baptisme c. so consequently of other Churches in Apostasie to be true baptisme If the example of Christ be considered vvho first instituted and ministred the Lords supper himself he had received true baptisme before Mat. 3 16. with 26.26.27.28 The like may be observed about his Apostles namely about Paul vvho vvas first baptised afore he received or administred the Lords supper Act. 9.18 with 20.11 and so in others from time to time By vvhich themselues may perceiue vvhat a continuall profanation of Gods holy things is among them that so minister or receiue not having true baptisme and the Reader may discerne hovv needfull it had ben for them better to haue thought of their positions and objections
to the Church of Israel vvas by them used and to be performed according to order and not any vvay to vveaken but to stablish the Elders auctoritie And vve must not be straungers from the policie of Israel Eph. 2.12 c. Yea this verie instruction in Mat. 18.17 is such as it accordeth vvith and hath reference unto the grounds and ordinances of God taught of old by Moses the Prophets as is shevved in particular in the Treatise aforesaid and in the Churches agreement published there about So as their opposition against us therein is indeed against Israel against Moses against the Prophets And vvhether thē it be not also consequently against the Lord and his ordinances prescribed in his vvord let all indifferent men judge Such is their error and so great is their transgression and iniquitie And hitherto of the first Objection vvhich in the printed copie is the second VVhere furthermore observe hovv vvhen they doe here quote the Scriptures alledged for proof of the 24 Article of the Confession they doe it thus Mat. 18.17 c. vvhereas in the Confession it is thus Psal 122.3 c. VVhich is to be noted in divers respects First because it sheweth that at the setting downe of the Confessiō the Scriptures of the old testament were observed for the confirmation of it asvvell as of the newe Secondly that Mat. 18.17 is so to be understood as may agree vvith the other Scriptures namely vvith Psal 122.3 Lev. 20.4.5 and 24.14 Numb 5.2.3 Deut. 13 9. vvhich Scriptures are in this article also alledged and joyned vvith that of Mat. 18.17 Thirdly that it must be understood vvith agreement and proportion to the order and manner of Israel vvhereof these scriptures doe directly speak Fourthly that therefore our understanding of it novv as vve doe is in the truth of the point it self according to our auncient sayth and not theirs vvho vvould make us straungers from Israel and vvould persvvade us that Christs doctrine in Mat. 18.17 is a nevve rule for the Churches novv vvhich Israel had not And that these people therefore have in deed left the ancient faith which thing they object unto others Moreover by the Scriptures asoresayd joyned together and compared vvith the estate of Israel it doth appeare reason it self doth teach it that we must distinguish betweē the sentence of excommunication and betvveen the execution thereof as betvveen the sentence of death of leprosie or the like and betvveen the execution follovving thereupon Novv in Israel the Elders in causes of death the Priests in case of Leprosie had a rightfull povver to give out the sentence of death and of leprosie and the like according to the lavv of God vvithout asking the peoples consent yea and though it should have been vvithout and against the consent of the people vvhom they call here the bodie of the Congregation Deu. 1.16 and 17 8-12 and 24.8 with 2 Chron. 26 16-20 Levit. 13. c. And vvhen the Elders and Priests had so pronounced the sentence according to the vvord of God and dutie of their office then vvas it for the people to performe the execution accordingly as may be seen in the Scriptures aforesaid many other the like Thus also the Elders may now by vertue dutie of their Office give out the sentence of excomunicatiō according to the lavv of God and the people should accordingly put it in execution by avoyding the excōmmunicated persons till they repent c. Or if any of the people can except against the Elders proceeding therein they are to be heard as in the foresaid Treatise upon Mat. 18 17. I have vvrittē heretofore VVhere note further hovv in that Treatise it is often mentioned particularly in our agreement about the understāding of this Scripture of Mat. 18.17 that we should alway understand and observe these things according as in Israel in the due proportion perpetuall equitie thereof and therefore not to abridge the brethren of their assent or any right that doth apperteyne unto them by the word of God but to doe all things accōrding to the rules prescribed therein c. And here let me then aske of this people thus divided hereabout first vvhether in Israel the Lord abridged the people of their right libertie any way in that by his word the Elders and Priests might admonish sinners give sentence of death and leprosie and the like things vvithout asking or taking the peoples consent thereunto Secondly vvhether the people have any more right and authoritie in the Churches government novv then the people of Israel had in those dayes Thirdly vvhether the people of Israel vvere not kings priests even a kingdome of priests and a holie nation asvvel as the Christian people are now Exod. 19 5 6. Psal 149.1 c. with 1 Pet. 2.9.10 Rev. 1.6 Fourthly vvhether the Churches power vvhich the Lord hath given unto it be not a ministeriall povver onely Fiftly vvhether the Elders povver be not ministeriall under the Lord in and for the Church so as it is the Lords primarily the Churches secondarily and the Officers ministerially or instrumentally for the Lord the Church vvhose Officers they are and that therefore there is no vveight in their Objections about the Elders povver as if it vvere not the Churches and that vvhich perteyneth to the bodie of the Congregation but that in deed it is the Churches so to be ministred by the Officers vvhom the Lord hath set in his Church to minister in his name for the Churches use and benefit and that they vvhich oppugne the Officers herein doe not onely oppose against them but even against the Lord the Church for which they vvould seem so much to plead And finally vvhether the Opposites in the Churches government as the Anabaptists in the Sacraments vvould not make us aliens from the common vvealth of Israel that so there should not be one bodie of them and us one Lord over them and us one sayth of theirs and ours c as the Apostle hath taught us Ephes 2 12-22 and 3 6. and 4.4 c. VVhich how absurd and ungodly it vvere to hold vve vvish they may in time vvel consider with them selves afore moe errors and further evils grovve upon them then yet are Furthermore let me also aske vvhy they doe not here speak of themselves asvvell as of us vvhat they pleaded to be the Church spoken of Mat. 18.17 as namely hovv some of thē taught publikly that it is the whole Church Congregation alledging to that end Num. 15.33 27.2 and 35.12 as also that Christ in this place speaketh of the kingdome of heaven Mat. 18.1 c. and that therfore we are to understand it of the whole Church How some also pleaded that it must be understood of men women children that can sorrovve rejoyce vvith others pressing to this purpose that vvhich Paul speaks of the bodie and parts thereof sorrovving and
rejoycing one vvith another 1 Cor. 12 22-26 And furthermore hovv it vvas also affirmed that in cases of question and controversie the greater part of the people though vvithout against all the Elders and other brethren are the bodie and the Church there spoken of yea though they be in errour c. And novv in their exceptions pleading about it they speak of the whole Congregation and of the bodie of the Congregation in an opposition against the Eldership and so seeme here to imply also such an understanding thereof Touching all which it were long to rehearse eyther what reasoning vve had or vvhat might be shevved about these poynts But some fevve things I vvill note thereabout And first if this rule befound in the book of Numbers and lavves of Israel as by the doctrine allegations aforesaid appeareth then is it not a nevv rule first given in Mat. 18.17 as vvas held and urged both often and earnestly among us Secondly these Scriptures in the book of Numbers speak of civil cases and government and yet vvhen vve alledge these or the like about the Elders as they doe about the people they except against us as if vve misapplyed the Scriptures and give the Elders civill authoritie vvhich I suppose they vvill not give to the people though they make such allegations about them in this question as vve doe about the Elders Num. 15.33 27.2 35.12 Thirdly touching these Scriptures and the like it is certaine that the sinners and pleas in Israel vvere brought before the Congregation of Elders to be judged by them as may appeare by these Scriptures them selves being compared vvith Num. 36.2 Deut. 19.12.17 and 1.12.16 and 16.18 and 17 8-12 Iosh 20.4.5.6 1 Sam. 2.25 2 Chron. 19 5-11 Psal 82 1-6 Mat. 5.22 Lnk. 22.66 Act. 6.12 c. Moreover Num. 15.33 and 27.2 tvvo of the Scriptures alledged speak of the people of Israel vvhen they vvere in the wildernes vvhere they vvere sixe hundred thousand men beside children Exod. 12.37 And would they have us thinke that this people came together to hear examine and judge the cases of sinne and question there spoken of or that the parties there mentioned were brought or came unto all that Congregation as they vvould have the causes of sinne and sinners to be brought unto the vvhole Church and congregation among us yea and the people to be bound to come judge the brethrens causes that doe fall out from time to time And for the third Scripture so alledged by them Num. 35.12 if it be compared vvith Deut. 19 4-12 it maketh the poynt yet more playne against them selues For Moses speaking of one and the same matter in both those places Num. 25.12 useth in the one place the vvord Congregation in the other the terme of Elders as if he vvould himself tell us that he speaks of the Congregation of Elders Deut. 19.12 To vvhich end also see Iosh 20.4.5.6 where the same matter is againe spoken of Deut. 19 15-18 vvhere after the treating of the former matter he giveth a generall rule for the cases that might fal out among them And vvhether novv vve should beleeve Moses or them let themselves judge Touching the phrase of the Kingdome of heaven Mat. 18.1 c. Mat. 18.1 c. hovvsoever many have ben caryed thereby to think that this is a nevv rule and perteyning onely to the Churches of the Gospel since Christ and that the people now are otherwise interessed in the Churches government then they vvere in Israel of old yet it is evident that the same phrase is also spoken of the state and Church of the Ievves Mat. 22.2 c. and that therefore such collections from this manner of speach are not sound And vvhat is there here taught by Christ that the Iewes should not be carefull to observe asvvell as vve Should not they be humble and harmlesse as litle children and so enter into the kingdome of heaven Mat. 18 1-4 with Psal 131.1.2 Prov. 15.33 and 16.19 and 18.12 and 25.6.7 1 Sam. 12.3.4 Psal 138.6 Should they not avoyd giving offiences to others vvhen others offended thē should they not deale with them and shevve them their sinne And if they did not repent and amend bring them to the Congregation of Elders to be further dealt vvith according to their demerit Or if they did repent forgive them Mat. 18 5-22 with Lev. 19.14.16.17.18 Deut 19 15-19 and 21 18-21 and 25 5-9 with Ruth 3 9-13 and 4 1-13 1 Sam. 2.25 Esa 58.6.7 And further in the same chapter it may be observed Mat. 18.23 c. that Christ teaching hovv God requireth men to forgive one another their sinnes under the similitude of a king taking account of his servants propoundeth it by the same phrase of the kingdome of heaven And this also is a dutie vvhich God required of the Ievves alvvayes asvvell as of us novv Lev. 19.18 Exod. 23 4.5 Psal 7.4 Act. 7 26. And in the next chapter Mat. 19.13.14 Christ speaking of litle childrē that vvere brought unto him sayth that of such is the kingdome of heaven VVhich vvas alvvayes true of the infants and children of the Ievves as of ours novv But if any vvould gather hereupon for babes and litle children as some doe for the men vvomen greater childrē upon the like maner of speach that therefore they are to have a hand in the Churches government and that the causes of sinne and question falling out in the church should be brought unto them asvvell as to the Elders and they bound to be present to hear and judge all such causes arising among the brethren I suppose the people them selves that hold the former opinion and make such collections to maynteyne it for the vvhole Congregation yet vvould think it absurd thus to reason about the lesser children although they be of the bodie of the Congregation that of such also is the kingdome of heaven Againe in the next chapter save one Mat. 21.43 Matthevv sheweth hovv Christ sayd that the kingdome of God should be taken from the Ievves and given to the Gentiles a nation that should bring forth the fruits thereof Mat. 21 43. So as then by the doctrine of Christ himself it is one and the same kingdome of God under vvhich the Ievves vvere vve novv are The differences about some vvorldly ceremoniall and mutable things neyther doe nor can carrie vvith them an abolition of the things spirituall morall and perpetuall Neyther may vve at any hand or under any pretence suffer our selves to be made aliants from the common vvealth of Israel as is noted before For the other Scripture 1 Cor. 12. chap. 1 Cor. 12 chap. the Apostles purpose is not there to speak of the cases and pleas about sinne and of the maner of dealing therein as in Mat. 18.15 16 17. and as our question vvas among us but of the diversitie and inaequalitie of gifts
Scriptures thus alledged by them The other is a thing vvhich M. Ainsvv hath vvel observed about Idolatrie that it is a sinne which cleaveth fast to all flesh Arrowe against Idol ch 2 p. 23. c. so as the best in the world doe easily fall into it doe take pleasure in it and are hardly drawen from it An example vvhereof may be seen in the people aforesaid vvho being caryed vvith the love of their errour about the matter spoken of vvould chuse bondage afore libertie yea and a bondage accompanyed vvith many other evils ensuing upon men vvomen and children rather then they vvould be dravven from the errour and Idol set up in their heart But I hope their children if not themselves vvill in time grovv vviser hovv ever in other things it be too common that the children remember their fathers altars and Idols as the Prophet Ieremiah said of the people in his dayes Ier. 17.2 Let me also about the matters themselves concerning the greater part of the people the vvhole Congregation or bodie thereof the men vvomen and children of yeares pleaded to be the Church spoken of Mat. 18 17. desire to knovv by vvhat Scriptures they vvill novv manifest and confirme it to such as are othervvise mynded If they speak of 1 Cor. 5 chap. as some doe that is purposely handled in the treatise on Mat. 18.17 as also if the vvomen and children should in a controversie be the greater part whether then they be the Church there spoken of have the Churches power and authoritie to excommunicate the men and vvhether these persons divided not them selves from the Church vvhen they left us seeing vve vvere the greater number both of the Elders and people vvhom they departed from Also vvhether the Elders be of the bodie of the Congregation vvhereof they speak or not for here they seeme to make an opposition betvveen the bodie of the Congregation and the Eldership And if they be vvhat place they have in the bodie vvhether a superiour or inferiour place And vvhether in the Congregation and presence of them the vvomen and children have authoritie by vertue of that rule Mat. 18.17 to examine rebuke and admonish their husbands parents masters being there dealt vvithall for sinne seeing the Church is told and the vvomen and children are of the Church and they that are of the Church there spoken of may examine admonish are to be heard obeyed c. Neyther let them thinke much that I propound such questipns or that I speak thus about vvomen and children c. For they knovv that such assertions and pleading vve have had from them and that such opinions are among them And vve knovv that if they ansvver directly to the things here and before propounded the truth vvill better appear and the controversie be sooner ended between us And what they hold mainteyn concerning these things is needefull for us still to insist upon seeing that about the understanding of this Scripture of Mat. 18.17 they have so dealt and left us as they have done Other things I vvill omit that might here also have their place and use noting this onely that it is a straunge extraordinarie case whē a controversie should so stand as all the Elders should be one vvay all the people another way And in extraordinarie cases the course and warrant from the vvord of God must accordingly be had But vvhat is this to the ordinarie maner of government in the Church vvhereof the question vvas among us vvhereabout it vvas particularly mentioned at the beginning that our reasoning should be Lastly vvhat vveight is there in this exception of theirs against our understanding of Mat. 18.17 more then might be against Israel of old vvho could understand such speaches of the Congregation of Elders vvithout impeaching any libertie of the people or falling into any errour against the truth But I have spoken hereof before and of this matter more largely then I purposed though yet not so largely as I might considering the point it self and hovv they have caryed themselves thereabout Novv I vvill come to the next Objection For the second vvhich concerneth excommunication by a people without officers I have in the foresaid Treatise vvritten particularly thereabout Treat on Mat. 18.17 vvhere also I have treated purposely and largely of the place of the Apologie vvhich they have here alledged so as that should first have ben ansvvered afore they had thus dealt as they have done especially seeing that there I desired ansvver confirmation of that opinion vvriting in this sort about it Where finde we in the Scriptures that God hath thus laid upon the people without Officers to excommunicate Where is the precept for it Which be the examples of it Or what are the grounds requiring and bearing it out In the same place also I noted that in the Scriptures we may observe not onely sundry exāples shewing how it hath ben done by the Lord himself and by his ministers and Officers but also divers ordinances grounds directing and warranting us to doe likewise The particulars vvhereof see in that Treatise vvith divers other considerations and reasons thereabout VVhich might have caused them eyther to ansvver us or at least as there is noted to consider vvith themselves how the Churches excommunication can be administred by any but such as are the Lords and the Churches Officers and Overseers and how people without Officers can chalendge to themselves the ministration of this any more then of the Sacraments c. And besides you may percēive both by our churches estate and by particular note set dovvn in the said Treatise that our controversie vvas about a Church established with Officers and that it vvas before our parting agreed among us to leave the things concerning people without Officers to further consideration To vvhich also I do still referre it Onely where he sayth here that our doctrine overthrowes the constitution of our Church which was gathered and constituted by Christians without Officers receiving in the repentant and casting out the disobedient c. I vvill hereupon note a fevve things briefly to shevve the errour and vveaknes of their exception herein And first omitting vvhat is sayd before it vvere vvorth the knovving by vvhom or by vvhat Church the first man or first tvvo men of this Church whereof they speak vvere received in and by what povver Secondly it is knovven and not to be forgotten Eph. 4.4.5 1 Cor. 10.1 2. and 12 13. Act. 2.41.42 that by our baptisme as also by accord in the truth vve are bound to communion in any thing lavvfull as God giveth occasion opportunitie thereunto vvhich thing vvas heretofore shewed unto them though yet they have not learned it as they should Thirdly it is also playne and uudenyable that to chuse or give voyces in election is not a part of governement or a dutie peculiar to the governours of the Church but an interest
povver right and libertie that the saincts and people out of Office have and should use in elections not onely at first when they have no Officers but alvvayes after in other elections also even vvhen they have Officers over them Lastly seeing our doctrine overthrovveth not the constitution of the church of Israel afore Christ nor of the primitive Churches after Christ it caÌ„ not therefore overthrovv the constitution of our Church or of any other that is accordingly built upon the foundation of the Apostles Prophets Iesus Christ himself being the head corner stone Ephess 2 19 20. By all vvhich you may see hovv vayne frivolous this their exception is To which may be referred the first sixt and seventh of the Objections in the printed copie And so touching them observe the things spoken of here and in the foresaid Treatise upon Mat. 18.17 For the third it being of much like nature vvith the second before the same ansvver that is there given may suffice for it Yet thus much I vvill acquaint you vvith further that the like thing being objected here against me and vvritten of unto us from the church at Leyden I gave this ansvver unto it viz that the Church may excommunicate any Officer deserving it as well as any other member Also that if all the Officers doe joyntly transgresse and so persist then the Church which did chuse them may also depose and refuse them for beeing their Officers any longer may separate themselues from them But that the people may excommunicate all their Officers or whole Eldership together I desired to see it shewed and warranted from the word of God This vvas then ansvvered sent froÌ„ hence in a generall letter to the church at Leyden as is knovven unto them and vvas by Mr. Ainsw himself also subscribed at that time for my ansvver hereunto hovvsoever novv they speake not of it So far as chusing reacheth which being not an action of government may be done by people out of office so far also may the refusing goe And vvhatsoever in extraordinarie cases is attempted further must be approved by the vvord of God that so it may be admitted And novv for the exception it self vvhich is here the third but in the printed copie is the first note these things moreover concerning it that the particulars of the 23 Article of our Confession here alledged being found true in the Churches of Israel before Christ and of the Gentiles since Christ the exception made hereabout can not be of vvaight against this or any other Church established according to the vvord of God as those vvere but must be also against those churches vvithall For which see consider the Scriptures alledged in the Confession for confirmation thereof And observe here also whether it can be shewed by those or any other Scriptures that any in Israel or in the primitive Churches did ordeyne Officers or depose or excomunicate eyther theÌ„ or any vvicked persons deserving it but such as vvere Governours and Officers among them Which scripture vve have indeed thus alledged heretofore If any insist upon Numb 8.9.10 which of all other places is the likest or onely like to be objected because there it is sayd the children of Israel shall put their hands upon the Levites then note also further that by this phrase of speach of the children of Israel and other such speaches of the men of Israel the tribes of Israel and the like in the Scriptures are the Elders of Israel often meant understood As for example in another the like case they vvhich are called the Elders of Israel Lev. 9.1 are in the same chapter called the children of Israel Lev. 9.3 where the Septuagint have in both places alike the Senate or Eldership of Israel As also Iosh 7.23 where the Hebrevv hath the children of Israel the Greek translation hath the Elders of Israel And verie reason it self teacheth so to understand it For othervvise hovv should so many hundred thousand of Israel as then vvere of the people eyther at once heare or doe the things there spoken of And if it be sayd some did it for the rest of Israel then I aske first vvho those some vvere but the Elders vvhom Israel novv had Exo. 3.16 and 4.29 Lev. 9.1 c. and secondly under vvhom they did it but under the Lord vvho set them over the people to minister governe in his stead Exod. 20 12. Num. 11 16-30 Deu. 1 9-18 and 16.18 and 17 12. and 19 12.17 c. So likevvise they vvhich are called the men of Israel Ios 9 6 7 14. are in the same chapter called the Princes of the Congregation Ios 9 15 18 19 21. And they vvhich are called the tribes of Israel 2 Sam. 7.7 are othervvhere called the Iudges of Israel 1 Chron. 17.6 In like maner that vvhich is sometimes said to be done by the people Exod. 20.18 19. 1 Sam. 8.7 10 19 21. is othervvhere said to be done by the Elders Deut. 5.23 1 Sam. 8 4. In vvhich places actions common reason also teacheth so to understand the speaches as vvas shevved before And in like sort may be observed hovv the vvord Church or Congregation is divers times used for the Assemblie or Congregation of Elders Num. 35 12 24 25 29. with Deut. 19 11.13.16.17 and 31.28.30 Iosh 20.4.5.6 Psal 82.1 1 Chron. 29.1.6 with 28.1 c. as is noted in the other Treatise on Mat. 18.17 And many such Synechdochicall speaches vvhere the name of the vvhole is given to a part may be observed in the Scriptures VVhich vvhiles men vvill needs understand according to the letter they grow into many errours some one vvaie some another as others also doe in other things mistaking figurative speaches as if they were spoken and should be understood literally And thus much I thought to vvrite further hereabout And this also that they should better observe the clauses particularly expressed in the article spoken of Conf. art 23. as namely that the electing and ordeyning of the Officers is to be according to the rules in Gods word prescribed that deposition likevvise is to be by due order and that the cutting off by excommunication must be done orderly VVhich clauses as they bynde us to shew by the Scriptures that the people not being in office may chuse their Officers as is proved both there and in the Apologie heere cited pag. 46.47 so doe they also binde these persons thus making exception to shevv out of the vvord of God like rules practise or vvarrant of ordination deposition and excommunicatioÌ„ ministred and performed by pâ—ople out of office VVhich till they doe vvhat vveight or use is there of their exceptions save that it turnes to be a meanes for the truth to be better found out and more cleared from tyme to tyme. For the fourth it is of like nature vvith the second and third herebefore vvhere therefore see the ansvvers And if they vvould here imply a
2-5 and 15.4 c. For novv it vvill be ansvvered them that in Israels apostasie they kept circumcision which needed not to be repeated seeing it vvas true and sealed Gods covenant unto them but that these cannot so plead for the baptisme had in the apostasie of Rome because themselves say the baptisme of the church of Rome is not true baptisme and so not the seale of Gods covenant to them vvhich have no other but it VVhereunto vvhat they vvill ansvver let them bethinke themselves And let thē shevv us by vvhat Scriptures they can approve their standing novv vvho vvittingly vvillingly remayne without true baptisme to seale unto them the covenant of God in Iesus Christ Finally if the baptisme had in the Church of Rome be not true baptisme then as they also sayd it is an idol bearing the shevv and image of that vvhich it is not in truth and substance And so then apply hither that vvhich Mr. Ains hath observed in his Arrovve against idolatrie hovv God manifesteth the vanitie and filthynes of Idols by titles and names given unto them Pag. 13. 14. For Idols sayth he are called things of naught as it vvere filths doung or excrements loth some things or detestable and abhominations vanities lyes unprofitable false-vanities leasings and vayn-iniquitie Thus he vvriteth of Idols in that place so as by their opinion the Baptisme of the Church of Rome is a thing of naught and therefore to be esteemed as nothing in the world as it were filth or doung and therefore to be cast out a loth some thing and therefore to be detested an abhomination and therefore to be abhorred a vanitie a lye unprofitable false-vanitie leasing and vayn-iniquitie and therefore that all vvho have received it should renounce it cast it avvay as a menstruous cloth and say unto it Get thee hence as Esay teacheth vvhen he shevveth the vvay vvherein we should vvalk even thus to deale vvith the monuments and most precious ornaments of idolatrie therefore much more with the idols themselves Esa 30.21.22 VVhich till these men be carefull to doe with the idols reteyned among thē they must be contented by their ovvne opinion to be accounted among those many sorts of idolaters which defile themselves with idols of vvhom Mr. Ainsw speaketh in the same place of his book aforesayd A great sinne it vvas that they fell into if there had ben no other but it that vvithout just cause they brake avvay divided themselves from the Church vvhereof they vvere but seeing that therevvith they have also other very erroneous opinions and the sinfull usurpation of all the holy things of God used among thē vvhat an heavy estate doe they stand in and hovv greatly doth it import them to consider their vvaies in their heart and to turne their feet unto the testimonies of the Lord Othervvise let them remember that which the Apostle wrote to the Corinthians Doe we provoke the Lord to ielousie are we stronger then he 1 Cor. 10.22 And thus much I thought here by this occasion to vvrite about the baptisme of the Church of Rome novv I vvill come to speak of the Church it self As touching the Church of Rome there being also at that tyme speach about it to be the Church of God I did in deede alledge the saying of the Apostle that Antichrist should sit in the Temple of God as the Apostle expressely teacheth 2 Thes 2.4 And by the Temple of God understanding the Church of God it vvill follow that Antichrist should sit in the Church of God and is there to be sought and found and not among the Ievves Turks Pagans or the like as the Papists others vvould persvvade us neyther that Antichrist takes avvay wholy the Church of God and everie truth and ordinance of the Lord as Anabaptists and such as are herein Anabaptistically inclined would beare us in hand Observe also here agayne that vvhich is sayd Rev. 18 4. Goe out of her my people and partake not in her sinnes c. vvhere those vvords my people imply the covenant of God continued among them For thus is the covenant taught and set dovvne unto us in the Scripture I will be your God and you shall be my people And so is Israel often called the Lords people is thus spoken of in the time of their apostasie by the Prophets 2 King 9 6. 13.23 2 Chron. 30 6-9 Hos 4 6 12. and 5.4 and 14.2 Amos 7.15 and 8.2 c. And note here also hovv the other clause partake not in her sinnes shevveth vvhat vve are to leave and renounce namely their sinnes and iniquities vvherein they transgresse the lavv of God and not vvhatsoever is had or reteyned by them Furthermore it is undenyable and vve have heretofore urged it much against the Anabaptists that the Church of Rome vvas at first set in the vvaie of God was not onely one of the Churches of God Rom. 2.8 16.19 but for their fayth and obedience vvas also very famous over the world Since vvhich tyme shee is fallen into great apostasie and adulteries Esa 1.2 Ier. 2.21 Ezec. 16. 23. ch 1 Kin. 12 28-33 14.22.23.24 2 Chro. 13.5 c. as Israel did in former tymes In all vvhich her adulterate apostate estate she hath notvvithstanding still kept even to this day sundrie truths and ordinances of God mixed vvith them her ovvne inventions traditions as Israel also did VVhich being observed aright causeth a tvvofold consideration of her estate as of Israels one in respect of the truths and ordinances of God still reteyned among them another in respect of the mixture of their ovvne inventions and abhominations vvithall in regarde of the one to hold and acknowledge the truth Church of God there against the Anabaptists in regarde of the other to consider and observe their apostasie and Babylonish confusion against Antichrist and for this cause namely for this defection and mixture aforesayd to separate from them and vvitnes agaynst thē being alvvay carefull in our testimonie and practise to reteyne and maynteyne everie truth ordinance of God vvhich was in that Church before their apostasie and is yet continued therein to this day leaving onely and forsaking their corruptions and mixture of their ovvne inventions therevvith least othervvise vve should be brought our selves or be occasion to others to fall into Anabaptistrie and divers other errours and evils as by lamentable example of others vve have seen Note here also a double consideration about the covenant of God made vvith his people one in respect of the Lord himself on the one part the other in respect of the people taken into covenant by him on the other part Deut. 26.17.18.19 Iudg. 2.1 20. For it often cometh to passe that the people doe on their part transgresse break the covenant vvhen the Lord doth not so on his part but still remembring his covenant counts them his people calls them to
and examples of the godly in former times if these men vvould novv vvithout prejudice examine their opinions and courses aforesaid they should finde it high time for them to make a stand to observe the vvork of God upon them to giue thēselues no rest till they haue forsaken their errours redressed their crooked waies be they othervvise never so pleasing unto thē or auncient with thē So should they in deed keep the auncient fayth and vvalk in the old and good vvay prescribed of God Let them therefore hearken to the instruction and counsel given unto them Let the vvaie of God be in their heart and his feare before their eyes Let them thinke on their owne vvaies and turne their feet unto his testimonies Let them make hast and not delay to keepe his cōmmandements Psal 119.59.60 And to this end let them about the things spoken of consider well of these two poynts 1. of the questions themselues that haue ben and are betvveen us and therein especially of those differences vvhereabout they severed themselues from us 2. of the charge layd upon the Pastors and Elders over the flock committed unto them by the Lord and of the dutie required of the people agayne tovvards the Governours vvhom the Lord sets over them in his stead Of the first I haue treated here and in another treatise before written about the exposition of Mat. 18.17 For the latter see these the like Scriptures throughout the book of God Exod. 20 12. 2 Chron. 26 16-21 Act. 20 17 28. Rom. 12 3-8 1 Cor. 12 28. Ephes 4 11-16 Col. 4 17. 1 Thes 5 12 13. 1 Tim. 5 17-21 and 6 13.14 Tit. 2 15. Iam. 5 14. 1 Pet. 5 1-4 Rev. 2 3. Heb. 13 17. And novv to conclude besides all the former things we entreated them also that seing the same matter vvas then in hand both betvveene Mr. Amsworth and Mr. Bernard and betvveene Mr. Robinson and Mr. Bernard that therefore they vvould stay to see vvhat this vvay might come to passe for the more clearing of the poynts in difference betvveen us and our better accord thereabout But they vvould not be perswaded so to doe And then finally after a yeeres dispute publikly had by vvord of mouth Once a vveek cōmonly all the other meanes used among us I offered in the end as I said before to try out the matter in vvriting betvveen us and gaue forth unto them the observations vvhich then I had collected about Mat. 18.17 Which since are printed VVhich they both heard publikely read and had them to copy out afore they went avvay from us yet vvould they not yeeld hereunto But vvhen vve had appoynted another day in the vveeke about these things then had they some speach of divers particulars in the foresaid vvriting vvhereabout also vve spake agayne and so some speach passed between us thereabout but to giue ansvver unto it in vvriting they vvould not be perswaded Neyther vvould they continevve any longer with the Church but vvith great sinne and scandal divided themselues from us vvhich they professed that day December 15. and 16. 1610. practised the next and so haue continued ever since alledging the saying of the Apostle to the Romans Rom. 16 17 VVhich is so direct against themselues and for us as I vvill novv alledge no other Scripture at all against the division and scandals caused by them but leaue them even by this to be judged of their ovvne mouth VVhich they shall doe vvell to laye to heart to ponder seriously with themselues seeing that by the very Scripture vvhich thēselues alledged all are bound to marke them and avoyde them as having made division and offences contrarie to the doctrine vvhich we haue learned of the Prophets and Apostles of the Lord. Rom. 16 17. Thus haue I more largely then I thought vvritten hereabout and doe novv leaue it to your vvise and godly consideration as it shall please the Lord by his vvord and spirit to direct and persvvade you therein Farevvell in the Lord vvho remembreth his people in their base and distressed estate and giveth an issue vvith every tentation vvho also vvill deliver us from everie evill vvorke preserue us to his heavenly kingdome by Christ our Redeemer to vvhom be glorie for ever and ever Amen His grace be with you and his strong consolation in your spirit for ever Amen Yours Francis Iohnson THus good Reader I haue set downe M. Iohnsons Answer to the objections conteyned in M. A. letter and the printed copie about the division aforesayd Now I will here also annexe a note that vvas printed heretofore concerning these things vvhich being first discussed vvere then agreed upon by the Church The note is this as follovveth ¶ A NOTE OF SOME THINGS CALLED into question and controverted in the exiled English Church at Amsterdam By this course vve had much cōtention trouble c. It being held among us that such as vvere to be dealt vvithall publikly for sinne should not be admonished by the Elders vvhereupon the proceeding against them if they persisted therein might follovve but that the peoples consent vvas first to be taken afore the Elders did so admonish any such persons This poynt about admonition vvas handled and thus agreed upon from 2 Chron. 19 8 9 10. Deut. 17 8-13 1 Thes 5 12. c. to this effect viz. THat it is the dutie of the Elders in the publike administration of governement in matters brought to the Church to admonish the sinners and unrepentant vvithout requiring the people their consent first VVhich admonition of the Elders being despised the parties upon it are to be excōmunicated Our boūden duty in the Lord and freedome according to his vvord Both are to be respected observed aright And all the brethren are bound to consent unto such just rebuke or admonition given by the Elders as to the publike doctrine of the Church And consequently they are to assent unto all other the just administration of the Governours they being able to justify the same by the word of God And agayn the people haue libertie to except against and evince vvherein the Elders doe unjustly without warrant As also in all good order without disturbance and under correction they may aske resolutiō of their doubts And so by this meanes all popular confusion is avoyded libertie in the truth reteyned Also after much and often reasoning about our practise and understanding of Mat. 18 15 16 17. it vvas agreed by the Church That vve etred in the understanding of that Scripture namely in these particulars follovving First in that vve haue so understood those vvords Tell the Church c that they may not be understood of the Ievves Synedrion nor of the Christian Presbyterie or Eldership And this moreover so as some among us vvill by the word Church in that place haue understood men vvomen and children in ther ovvne persons meaning by