whole companie of Papistâ—s beeyng at so good leisure as thei are that thei haue not hitherto answered the Apologie so loÌ„g abroade in their handes as we are blamed of many for that your bookes lately set foorth are not foorthwith answered It is a pleasure for M. Dorman to shoote at rouers to range as he liste in railyng here and there and to call the Apologie a fardle of lies But it is not so easy for maister Dorman nor D. Hardyng to answere it piththilie to the satisfiyng of the learned readers Whiche neither thei bothe nor their whole Romishe cleargie shal euer be able to answere to any purpose But I maie iustlie replie to M. Dorman as the truth is that this his booke is nothing els but a fardell of lies ragyng railinges packed together as I truste I haue in deede notified to the discreate reader for that is passed ouer of it hetherto doubte not of like successe in the rest And I thinke that all honest and learned men in déede will so muche more like the saied Apologie when thei shall vnderstande that it so muche mistiketh M. Dorman and other of like honestie and learnyng as he is Dorman fol. 7. But because I haue perceiued that God in that people in their lawe and priesthoode shadowed out vnto vs like a cunning workeman the whole forme and proportion of his churche as witnesseth saincte Paule Lex vmbram habet futuroruÌ„ bonoâ—â— non ipsam imag inem rerum The lawe conteineth a shadowe of the good thynges to come but expresseth not manifestly the truth of thinges therefore I thought I might well reason from the shadow to the bodie from the resemblaunce image to the truthe thereto answering FroÌ„ the whiche kinde of reasonyng saincte Paule sometymes absteined not as when he laboured to proue that the lawe of the gospell would beare that thei whiche preached the gospell should liue thereby he reasoned after this sort Nunquid secundum hominem haec dico â–ª Speake I this as a man That is to saie proue I this by worldly reasons An lex haec non dicit Saieth not the lawe so toe And so goeth he forewarde and proueth yet by this texte of the olde lawe Thou shalt not moosell or binde vp the mouth of the labouryng Oxe as though he should haue saied it was so in the shadowe therefore it must be so in the bodie and in the truth signified by that shadowe Thus ye se good readers that I maie saie with saincte Paule haue I proued onely by reasons fetched from the dooynges of men by examples of all common wealthes and societies well gouerned that in Christes common weale there must be also one to rule Haue I affirmed this because sainct Cyprian saincte Hierom blessed and holy Leo so saied VVho yet were while thei liued here but men although now sainctes in heauen Nunquid non lex haec dicit Saieth not the lawe so toe Nowell You take to muche pain M. Dorman to prooue y t you may lawfully with S. Paule allege out of th' old testament for the proofe of good causes as he did We blame you not for that you allege out of th' old testament but for your guilefull vntrue application of places of the old testament of the doctors to suche purposes as thei apperteine nothyng vnto at all naie are moste contrary to the same I would you and all other aduersaries of the truth would as you saie with sainct Paule reason from the shadowes of the olde lawe to the truthe therby figured but you haue dooen otherwise For you dooe not with sainct Paule but with Pighius and Hosius vse this place not bringing vs by shadowes to the truthe as did S. Paule but by your shadowes of Ceremonies you haue darkened the truthe brought vs quite awaie from it You haue by this your reason so was it in the shadowe therfore it must be so in the bodie in the truthe signified by that shadowe not onely placed your Romishe head ouer the whóle Christian Churche but also of Christians you haue made vs Iewes and your selues of ministers of the Gospell haue you made Iewishe Aaronicall Leuites You haue on Aarons robes you vse his gestures you haue brought in his incense his censers his altars his candelles his candlestickes his belles and his banners his gold and his siluer into the seruice and Temple of God Of the whiche then beginning S. Hierome in his time muche coÌ„plained And would to God you had doen no woorse then thus made vs and your selues altogether Iuishe by your shadowes imitatyng and counterfaityng the olde lawe I would ye had not also by bringyng in of Idols by inuocations of dead menne by your charmes and witchecraftes contrary to all Gods lawe both old and newe made vs altogether moste wicked Ethnishe Idolaters and withall made a marte and set a sale all this your religion thereby to robbe séelie Christians both of their witte and money yea and of their soules health too whiche is moste of all as it is euidente to all the worlde you haue dooen But now to proceede with M. Dormans reason from the shadowe to the bodie from the figure to the truthe from the Iuishe churche to ours In the Iuishe churche all the people menne wemen and children had the Scripture in a language that thei did well vnderstande the Leuites and priestes in the Iuishe churche had wiues and children in the Iuishe churche there were no Images ergo it must be so now in our churche For God like a cunnyng workeman in that people in their lawe and priesthoode shadowed out vnto vs the whole forme and proportion of his churche now it was so in the shadowe therefore it must be so in the bodie and in the truthe These bee your owne woordes M. Dorman To proceede Maie it be proued by reason onely that thei who are bounden to obeie Goddes lawe oughte to vnderstande and knowe Goddes lawe Dooeth not the lawe saie so too Maie it bee proued by reason onely that ministers of the Churche maie haue wiues Maie not one reason with S. Paule Vnusquisque propter vitandam fornieationem habeat vxorem suam Et qui se non continent nubant Nam melius est nubere quà mvri That is to saie Let euery man for the auoiding of fornication haue his wife And suche as caÌ„not conteine let theÌ„ marie for it is better to marie then to burne Dooeth not the lawe saie so too Maie it bee proued by reason onely that Images ought not to bee in the temples and that men whiche haue life and reason ought not to boow and scoupe to insensible blockes or stones Dooeth not the lawe forbidde it to If you will denie my argumentes and thinke these reasons vnreasonable as I thinke you will yet I trust you doo against your own woords and forme of reasoning And good M. Dorman asâ—oile me of
the world condemned and burned to ashes bee an eternall witnesse Yea let their owne decree made in the saied Councell whiche was That no faithe nor promise is to bee kepte to any heretike nor that any manne by any promise standeth bound to an heretike for so thei call all those that dare speake against them bee a perpetuall testimonie of the same Thei saie wee are heretikes wee dooe deny it if our naie maie not defende vs why should their yea coÌ„demne vs Thei saie because thei bee the churche but wee deny the same shall here their yea secue for theÌ„ as it did before against vs and our naie neither touch theÌ„ nor helpe vs In some countreis if the partie accused pleade not guiltie and saie naie to the crime obiected if he by diuers tormentes enforced to confesse doo still maintaine his naie and passe through the appoincted tormentes constanly mainteinyng his naie he is discharged and let goe But it caÌ„ not healp vs accused as heretikes to denie the false accusation to mainteine our deniall in all tormentes and moste cruell deathes neither to bring good testimonie of our innocencie out of Gods woorde all these can helpe vs nothyng against their onelie bare saiyng that we bee heretikes for that is all their proofe In what case are we then How easily maie thei then bothe defende themselues coÌ„demne vs and maintaine what thei list be it right or wrong truthe or falshoode beyng accusers witnesses examiners and iudges theÌ„selues in the causes wherein thei bée parties and parties accused also Wherefore what can we dooe els but as did Christ our sauiour and his holie Apostles against the high Priestes against the Phariseis and Scribes appeale to God not absent not dumbe as M. Dorman deuiseth and saiyng nothyng at all for vs as he would haue it seme but to God yea and to our Sauiour Christe his soonne speakyng his minde moste largelie and plainly in the scriptures and beyng no partie but moste indifferent iudge betwéene them and vs. For if the controuersie be about true Religion and scruice of God what better triall can there be then Goddes woorde God hymself commaundyng vs that in his seruice we shall dooe that whiche he coÌ„maundeth vs that wee shall neither adde thereto nor take any thyng therefrom What better Iudge can there be in this worlde betwene vs then Gods woorde whiche as our sauiour Christ saieth shall iudge vs in the worlde to come If the controuersie bee aboute the true churche what better iudge can there bee then the Scripture writen by the Prophetes and the Apostles seyng it is testified to vs by the spirite of GOD moste plainelie that the true churche is builded and staied vpon the foundation of the Prophetes of the Apostles And though this dooe not like M. Dorman and suche as he is yet you shall heare that it did not misâ—â—ke the old and holie fathers of the auncient and true churche that suche controuersies should bee so quietted by the scriptures Sainct Augustine coÌ„tendyng against those who doo attribute Gods grace and giftes to the woorthinesse of mennes merites coÌ„cludeth thus Cedamus consentiamus autoritati scripturae sancte quae nescit falli nec fallere That is to say Let vs geue place and aagrée to th'autoritie of the holy scripture whiche caÌ„ not bee deceiued nor deceiue others The same S. Augustine contending with the Donatistes hath these woordes Nos nullam Cypriano facimus iniuriam cum eius quaslibet literas à canonica Diuinarum scripturaruÌ„ autoritate distinguimus neque sine causa tam salubri vigilantia Canon ecclesiasticus constitutus est ad queÌ„ certi prophetaruÌ„ ApostoloruÌ„ libri pertineÌ„t quos omnino iudicare noÌ„ audemus secundum quos de caeteris fideliuÌ„ infideliuÌ„ iudicamus mox ca. 32. Ego huius epistolÄ™ autoritate noÌ„ teneor quia literas Cypriani noÌ„ vt canonicas habeo sed eius ex canonicis considero quod iÌ„ eis diuinaruÌ„ scripturatuÌ„ autoritati coÌ„gruit cum laude eius accipio quod auteÌ„ noÌ„ congruit cuÌ„ pace eius respuo Whiche is to saie We doo Cyprian no wrong when we make a difference betweene euery letter and writing of his and the Canonicall autoritie of the holy scriptures Neither without cause thecclesiasticall Canon with so holsome care hath béen appoincted to the whiche the certain assured bookes of the Prophetes Apostles pertaine the which in no wise we presume to iudge and according to the which we iudge of all other bookes writinges both of the faithfull and of the infidels And straight waies after in the 32. chapiter I am not bound to the autoritie of this epistle because I hold not Cyprians letters and writynges for Canonicall but consider his writynges by the Canonicall what accordeth in them to the auctoritie of the diuine Scriptures I allowe with his praise and what disagreeth froÌ„ them by his leaue I refuse These are the woordes of S. Augustine You maie sée here how S. Augustine preferreth the scriptures before the doctours yea before S. Cyprian so often by you M. Dorman alleged who was in deede a blessed martyr is no doubt a sainct in beauen and who also is mosse against you euen where he is alleged by you You see S. Augustine will haue sainct Cyprians writynges and all other doctours and mennes saiynges and writynges examined and Iudged by the scriptures whiche you yet reiecte as no coÌ„uenient iudges and that the scriptures maie be iudged by no man Yea S. Cyprian hymself agreyng hereto sheweth the causes why heresies schismes corruption of the truthe and breache of vnitie dooe come into the Churche and why so many are deceiued by the deuill transformyng hymself into an angell of light by these woordes Hoc eò fit fratres dilectissimi dum ad veritatis originem non reditur nec caput quaeritur nec magistri coelestis doctrina seruatur Quae si quis consideret examinet tractatu longo at que argumentis opus noÌ„ est That is to saie This coÌ„meth to passe hereof moste beloued brethren for that wée dooe not retourne to the origene â—â— beginnyng of the truthe neither is the head sought nor the doctrine of the heauenlie maistor kepte The whiche thynges if a man dooe consider and examine it shall not neede any long treatiâ— orargumentes Thus farre saincte Cyprian Who calleth Christe originem veritatis caput vnum caput originem vnam magistrum coelestem c. To saie The beginnyng of the truthe the head the onelie head the onely beginnyng the heaueÌ„lie schole maister whose doctrine if we would obserue we should not saith S. Cyprian neede any longe treatie or argumenâ—es But for that this beginnyng of the truthe is not returned vnto this heade is not soughte for the doctrine of this hâ—auenlie schoolemaister is not kepte he affirmeth it to bee the cause of all heresies schismes endlesse contentions illusions
erat sancta quę apud impios non erat Nunc autē aut tales aut peiores facti sunt Christiani quales sūt hęretici aut gentiles adhuc autem maior continētia apud illos inuenitur quamuis in schismate sint quà m apud Christianos Qui ergo vult cognoscere quae sit vera ecclesia Christi vnde cognoscat nisi tantummodo per scripturas Sciens ergo Dominus tantam confusionem rerum in nouissimis diebus esse futuram ideo mandat vt Christiani qui sunt ī Christianitate volentes firmitatem accipere verae fidei ad nullam rem fugiant nisi ad scripturas Alioqui si ad alia respexerint scandalizabūtur peribunt non intelligentes quae sit vera ecclesia That is to saie Let them that bee in Christianitie flie to the scriptures And wherfore ought al Christians at this time to flie to the scriptures Because in this time sith heresies possessed those Churches there can bee no proofe of true christianitie neither can there be any other refuge of Christians desiryng to knowe the true faithe but the diuine scriptures For before it was declared by many meanes whiche was the true churche and whiche was Gentilitie but now thei who would knowe whiche is the true churche can knowe it by no meanes but onelie by the scriptures Why so For all these thinges whiche are properly Christes in y e truth the same hath heresie also in schisme Heresie hath churches likewise and the diuine Scriptures likewise Bishops likewise and other orders of clearkes Baptisme likewise the sacramente of thankes geuyng likewise and all other thinges to conclude euen Christ himself He therefore that would knowe whiche is the true churche of Christ how can he knowe it in so greate cōfusion of likelihoode but onely by the scriptures Further the churche of Christ might be knowen before by the maners of it when the conuersation either of all or of the moste parte of Christians was holie whiche was not so emongest the wicked But now Christians are become either suche or woorse then be the heretikes or Gentiles yea there is greater continencie emongeste them though thei bee in schisme then is emongest the Christians He therefore that would knowe whiche is the true Churche of Christe how can he knowe it but onelie by the scriptures The Lorde therefore knowyng that in the last daies there would be so greate confusion of thinges dooeth commaunde that Christians whiche be in Christianitie willyng to haue the suertie of true faithe dooe flie to no other thing but to the scriptures Els if thei haue respecte to other thynges thei shall stumble or faile of the truthe and perishe not vnderstāding whiche is the true churche Thus farre that aunciente author whose sentence and verie woordes though for auoidyng of prolixitie alittle intermitted I haue truely rehearsed You maie see that this auncient writer will not allowe that you beeyng the one partie should claime to your self the name of Christians the name of the churche the names of bishops and the names of the cleargie and so to take vpon you as iudges to condemne the other partie but that bothe you and wee must be iudged and tried whether we be in Christianitie and in the true church by the scriptures You see the names of the churche of Bishops and cleargie whiche are common to heretikes with Christians can not prooue you to bee catholikes for that heretikes vse the same names but that bothe you and wee muste knowe by the Scriptures whether wee bee in the true faithe or no for that as he saieth in this confusion of thinges bothe the true churche and the true faith must bee knowen by the Scriptures onelie and by no other thyng and that whosoeuer goeth aboute otherwise to knowe them shall stumble and perishe Wherein this author dooeth agree with S. Augustine S. Hierome S. Chrysostome and with all the olde Doctours of the auncient churche Whereby al men maie well vnderstande that it is not our newe opinion as M. Dorman would haue it seme but the olde true perswasion of all the auncient doctors and godly fathers of the primitiue churche that the Scriptures as moste indifferent and certaine ought to be iudges in controuersies in religion rather then Doctours then Councelles then your Churche then dead menne then angelles yea that the scriptures should bee iudge and not thei And that the true sense of scriptures if doubte rise thereof maie bee and must be gathered by the conference of the scriptures who doo clearly expounde themselues For the declaration whereof the said doctors doo so often and largely write that the rehersall thereof would fil an huge volume but I did thinke that this much would suffice But you Papistes will neuer allowe the Scripture as iudge nor the sense thereof to be certaine vntill it come to the exposition of the Churche and you will bee that churche that must so expounde it your self that is you will graūt no sense to be true but your own sense But wee deny that you are the true Churche that hath this autoritie of determinyng of the sense of the scriptures And if you will saie still your are the churche neither will nor can proue it but onely by so saiyng we be not so voide of all sense and vnderstāding but that we perceiue you will haue no sense but your owne and that you will be still bothe parties and iudges in your own causes againste vs as the Iuishe high Prieste Phariseis and Scribes would needes be against Christ and his Apostles who did by your iudgemēt as it semeth allege the scriptures for themselues againste the saied high Prieste Scribes and Phariseis in vaine for that thei being the churche as you now be were the iudges of the sense of the saied scriptures by Christ and his Apostles alleged And I am sure that the high Prieste with his Iuishe churche was able to saie as muche for the ordinarie succession of the high Priestes his predecessours euen from Aaron vntil his time for antiquitie for consente and for vniuersalitie againste Christe and his Apostles so fewe in comparison and as it seemed latelie starte vp as you are able to saie for your churche or against vs. But yet we doo thinke that the woorde of God as it was alleged by Christe and his Apostles against the saied high priest and his churche so maie it and ought also to be alleged by vs against your high priest and your churche and that the same woords of God whiche shal iudge bothe you vs in the worlde to come as is saied ought also to be iudge betwéen you and vs here in this transitorie worlde for so dooeth our sauiour Christ teache so doo S. Chrysostome S. Augustine and S. Hierome with all the auncient doctors of the Churche teache also as hath been partely besore specified crie you neuer so muche to the contrarie and make you neuer so many exceptions to the scriptures and claime
vnknowen to all the worlde and all menne to liue not onely without explication of doubtfull places of the scripture but without knowledge of any place of the scripture at all and in steede of Gods woorde to haue pampered vp Gods people with their poisoned pappe of Poperie But saieth M. Dorman God did not commaunde any suche conference of scriptures but onelie to resorte to the high Prieste yet I trust M. DormaÌ„ is not ignorant what it meaneth that God and our sauiour Christ dooe so earnestlie exhorte all men to the diligent readyng and studie of the scriptures and dooe condemne the ignoraunce or wante of knowledge thereof And where he saieth God hath not commaunded suche conference of the scriptures which yet in effecte he hath commaunded it is happie that he can not shewe where God hath forbidden it which if he could he would not haue failed to haue dooen But seyng M. Dorman setteth so muche by Gods commaundementes and would so faine haue vs leaue the conference of scriptures as not commaunded by God as he thinketh I would he should aduertise the Papistes his felowes that thei would once leaue their Idolatrie to Images with other their superstitions so ofte and expressedlie by God forbidden as to all godlie menne is well knowen Dorman fol. 12. For emongest so many as at all times haue disquieted the Churche what one heretike are thei able to recon ouerthrowen by the scriptures VVas Arrius vaÌ„quished by them Naie if you brought to coÌ„uince him this text Pater egovnum sumus my father I are one he would tell you againe that the same Christe that so saied saied also pater meus maior me est my father is greater then I. VVhat had you then wonne at his handes that would tell you that one place of Scripture muste expound an other and that therefore your place must bee expounded by his And if you would wade farder with hym he would interprete your place as he did with the catholikes to be vnderstande of vâ—itie in will and not in substaunce and bryng you scripture toe although wrested from the true sense that should seeme well to prooue his distinction As when our Sauiour praied vnto his father in this sorte pater sancte serua eos in nomine tuo quos dedisti mihi vt sint vnuÌ„ sicut et nos kepe theÌ„ ô holie father in thy name whom thou haste geuen to me that thei maie be one as we twoo are one Nowell First to M. Dormans demaunde whiche is the pith of all that he saieth in a leafe and more next folowyng I answere the Arrians Anabaptistes and all heretikes without exception were vanquished and ouerthrowen by the Scriptures and that if thei were not vaÌ„quished by the scriptures thei were not vanquished at all For what though thei saied thei were not vanquished were thei therefore not vanquished because thei would not coÌ„fesse it Did the Iuishe high priestes Scribes and Phariseis confesse themselues vanquished by Christe and his Apostles Were thei therefore not vanquished for that thei would not graunte it I would aske againe of M. Dorman what one heretike of so many can he recken ouerthrowen but by the scriptures But whereas M. Dorman hath been continually harpyng vpon this stryng against the scriptures labouryng to bryng vs from them to the Pope and his churche as he still holdeth on so to dooe leaste I should at euery occasion by him offered with tediousnesse repeate the same thynges againe I remitte the reader to the. 68. leafe of this booke before where and in the processe folowyng it is at large declared that if we doubt whether we be Christians or no we must be resolued by the scriptures if wee doubte whether we bee in the true faithe or no we muste resorte to the Scriptures if wee doubte whiche is the true Churche and whether we bee in the same or no we muste bee certified by the scriptures and that suche as seeke other meanes to bee resolued of these and suche like doubtes otherwise thaÌ„ by the scriptures shal be deceiued and perishe Where also is declared that neither the Pope nor Popishe Churche can be conuenient and competent iudges in controuersies now risen for that thei are both parties and parties accused therein no more then the Iewishe high priest with his churche of Scribes and Phariseis were conuenient and competent iudges in the controuersies betweene them and Christes Apostles for that the saied high Prieste Scribes and Phariseis were parties yea and parties accused and guiltie too of the death of Christ about whom was all the controuersie betwene them and therefore were thei moste vnméete to bee iudges thereof Touchyng the conference of the scriptures together I did so late before at large intreate thereof that I néede not now to repete the same again And thus muche to M. Dormans question Now if M. Dorman haue brought in this example of the Arrians to bryng vs in suspition with the simple people as fauouryng the Arrians all learned and godlie can cléerâ— vs who dooe knowe how muche wee dooe abhorre the Arrians heresies and how earnestlie in our sermons writynges wee dooe oppugne them yea Hosius your chief champion shall answere for vs who dooeth muche praise our writynges and dooynges too againste the Arrians Dorman Fol. 13. In the exposition and right vnderstandyng of these fewe woordes Hoc est corpus meum this is my bodie how happeneth it that the Caluinistes and the Lutheranes agree not by conferryng one place of the Scripture with an other if that bee so readie a waie Dooeth not Caluine with all his teache vs that the sense and true interpretation of these woordes muste needes be atteined by the conference of one place of Scripture with an other And to that ende dooe thei not fondlie allege saincte Paule callyng Christe a rocke yea Christe callyng hymself a vine when he was in deede neither the one nor the other but by a similitude As though because th'Apostle or Christ hymself vseth a figure in one place wee muste thinke that in all other he neuer spake otherwise By whiche abominable doctrine what letteth if a manne would bee so wicked to affirme that Christe the sonne of God and seconde persone in Trinitie were not the true and naturall sonne of God but by adoptioÌ„ onely and for that wicked heresie to bryng this texte Dedit eis potestatem filios dei fieri he gaue them power to be made the sonnes of God VVhiche wordes wee knowe beyng spoken by vs menne muste bee vnderstande by grace and adoption and frowardlie to mainteine that all the places whiche any good manne can bryng for the defence of the contrarie should bee drawen to this texte alleged by them and expounded and vnderstanded thereby Nowell This is M. Dormans vsage when he can saie nothyng of the presente case to intermingle foraine matters thereby to auert the readers minde from his principall cause remainyng vnprooued
reader meruaile not that I answere this merie manne thus rufflyng in his maskes after this maner but weighe I praie thee his writyng from this place forwardes where he praieth that he be not holden and marke what a shreude shakyng he maketh speciallie for a whole leafe more next after folowyng Where you say M. DormaÌ„ that we blind the people with glitteryng shewes you dooe obiecte to vs your owne crimes It is you Papistes who by your glitteryng glorious maskyng garmentes and other costlie and fine furniture as copes vestimentes gilted crosses candlestickes dead mennes and often dead beastes boones burnished ouer with burnyng gold by your Ceremonies your minstrelsie your belles banners and other bables haue bewitched and striken not onely the simple but a greate many of the wiser sorte also starke blind and deaffe too that neither thei can sée any thing of Christ their sauiour nor heare and vnderstand ought of his moste holie woorde And you haue compelled theÌ„ in the steed of sincere and spirituall woorship of the true God with you to put all religion in outward dumbe ceremonies the seelie weake and wretched elementes of this worlde and not to regarde the God of their fathers but in stéede of him to honour the God Maozim and to woorshippe a God whom their fathers did not knowe with glitteryng golde siluer precious stone and other precious thynges in place of true vnfaigned faithe and a pure harte With what securitie we dooe vtter the truth forbidden vs by you as it was to Christes Apostles by the high Priestes and Phariseis your forefathers all prisons in EnglaÌ„de replenished of late with our captiue bodies all markette places and other more viler sprinkeled with our bloud shed by the crueleste kinde of death that the Deuill the homicide your greate graundfather could diuise dooeth plentifully testifie to the whole worlde And the moste part of vs losyng our liues together with all worldelie hope by death more dreadfull then is vsuall either to Felons murtherers or to moste sauage noisome wilde beastes might geue you to vnderstande if you would consider that it is no newe fangled appetite or luste of vtteryng errours or hope of worldlie gaine that dooeth moue vs to preache against your heresies and superstitions but euen the same méere necessitie of conscience whiche in like case inforced the Apostles likewise forbidden vpon paine of death to preache who made answere that it was more reason to obeie God then maÌ„ and that thei could not choose but teache those thinges whiche thei did knowe certainlie to be moste true And the same answere dooe we make to you for the whiche you will suffer vs to haue no securitie in this life Concernyng the scripture and the sense thereof the reader maie in a like case coÌ„sider Whereas there was a controuersie betwene the Apostles and the high priestes Scribes and Phariseis aboute the interpretation of the Scriptures touchyng the true Messias by the whiche Scriptures the Apostles prooued that Christe our Sauiour whom thei had crucified was he but the high Priestes and Phariseis by their interpretations attempted the contrarie and would not haue suche a poore and abiect man as to them and the worlde it séemed that Christ was to be their Messias Now had the Apostles as M. Dorman me thinke thinketh it reason leauyng the Scriptures in this case moste plaine referred the matter to the interpretation and determination of the high priest his consistorie wée might at this daie with the Iewes haue looked yet for a Messias to come and should with them haue lacked to our vtter damnation the sauiour of the worlde Iesus Christ the sonne of God who is at this daâ—e to them by reason of suche their interpretations the stone of stumbâ—yng and the rocke of ruine but to vs who doo beleue in him he is become wisedome and righteousnesse and sanctification and saluation And as there was then a coÌ„tronersie betweene the Apostles and the high Priestes whether thei had vniustlie or iustlie slaine that righteous one and innocent Lambe of God and no reason it was that the murtherers themselues should be iudges beyng not onelie accessaries but the principall parties to the murther so there being now risen a controuersie betwene vs and you about the true religioÌ„ of the same our Saniour whiche how shamefullie you haue with your traditioÌ„s corrupted euen as had your forefathers the Phariseis before corrupted the law of God he that hath but halfe an eye maie well seâ— you thinke it reason yet that you who are the corrupters and therefore parties should bee iudges therein also and speciallie your chief and moste high Prieste the Pope the poodle and sinke of all these abominations therefore moste guiltie of all other and consequently moste vnmeete to be the Iudge therein And yet M. Dorman will néedes haue hym the Iudge and the woorde of God so indifferent to all men and partiall to none reiected And why reiected I praâ—e you Forsoothe for that we maie by the Scriptures defende as you saie what errour wée liste as though that you maie not by the iudgemente of the Pope and by your own iudgementes vnder the name of the churche farre more easilie as you haue brought in so also mainteine and defende all errours and superstitions Is not the Pope more partiall to hymself and you his Papistes then are the Scriptures to vs Wherefore it were as good reason that Annas and Caiphas should bee Iudges whether thei themselues had dooen iustlie and righteouslie or wickedlie and murderouslie in sleayng Christe as that your Pope or you the corrupters of true Religion should be iudges whether in so dooyng you haue dooen well or no. If it be no reason as the prouerbe goeth to aske whether one bee a theefe or no of his felowe muche lesse reason is it to aske the same question of hymself seyng it is certaine that he will not bewraie hymself But the aduersaries of the Gospell deale thus with vs the Pope and all his eleargie beeyng guiltie of many heresies corruptions of religion and false superstitions and thereof accused dooe assemble themselues together in a councell in the whiche nothyng maie bée moued muche lesse determined but suche as pleaseth the Pope hymself there is enquirie made of vs who dooe accuse them thereof and offer to prooue it and there vnhearde and vnseene wee are condemned of our aduersaries who will needes bee our Iudges as false accusers schismatikes and heretikes also for that wee are againste them who are as thei saie the Churche You will saie wee might bee heard if wee would for thei call certain of all Christian realmes to their councelles How we are called and how we maie be heard let Ihon Husse called by the Emperour Sigismunde his saulfe conducte vnder his greate Imperiall seale to the Councell of Constance with Hierome of Prague who bothe were contrary to the faith geuen them by the greatest Christian prince in
vnto your selues as beyng the churche the interpretatiō thereof yet suche are both your doctrine and dooynges and so contrarie to the woorde of God whervpon the true churche is builded that we muste needes thinke that you are not the true church of God And whether you so bee or no seeyng it is in question and a greater doubte and controuersie emongest men I am sure then can bee about the sense of any place of the scripture you shall neuer bee able to make any exception vnto the Scripture as no competent iudge in controuersies but we shall be able tenne tymes more to make exception to your Pope and his churche as no indifferent nor meete iudge Wherefore cease once to bragge of that as the vndoubted iudge of all doubtes whiche is it self emongest men of all other doubtes the greatest doubt that is whether you be the true church of God or no. Whiche is with vs in deede no doubte nor with any that hath any vnderstandyng in Goddes woorde and iudgemente in true religion For we certainlie knowe by the woorde of God vpon the whiche as the true churche is builded so is it by the same to be knowen that you bee not the churche of God for that you so swarue from the woorde of God As for vs that wee are at your handes though we bryng so euidente scriptures for vs so reiected and condemned wee take it the better for that wée vnderstande that our sauiour Christe and his holie Apostles likewise allegyng the scriptures yea and further by their woonderfull woorkes and moste godlie life confirmyng the same were by the high Priestes Phariseis and Scribes reiected condemned and siaine an eternall documente that in this worlde no persone nor doctrine can satisfie al men or shall be taken for a iudge of controuersies aboue all exception and quarellyng seyng that Christe hymself so teachyng so woorkyng so liuyng was excepted vnto as a Daemoniake or one possessed with the Deuill as a friende to sinners as a wine drinker and seeyng that heade corner stone was as vnprofitable to the buildyng of Gods churche and his holie woorde also as false doctrine reiected by the high priestes Scribes and Phariseis who would needes be the iudges of all themselues And wee conceiue good hope that as our sauiour himself with his holie Apostles teachyng the truthe though reiected and murdered by the said high Priestes Scribes and Phariseis haue wonne vnto them the iudgementes of all godlie men and wemen against suche vnrighteous iudges so we likewise teachyng the same truthe of our Sauiour reueiled in his holie Gospell though of this high priest and Romishe Caiphas with his adherentes Popishe Scribes and Phariseis reiected condemned and murthered shall against suche vniuste iudges winne vnto vs the iudgement of all godlie menne and wemen as to the greate decaie of their false superstition successe of the truthe is this daie thankes bee to God partlie come to passe in a greate parte of the Christian worlde Dorman fol. 8. But of this I will entreate more largelie hereafter In the meane season that theie will haue of Christes Churche here in earth no other head but Christ hymselfe therein thei fare me thincketh not muche vnlike to a certaine felon of whom I haue heard that beyng areigned at the barre for a felonie when he had pleadid to the indictement not guiltie and was after the manner demaunded how he would bee tried he would suspectyng his owne case and knowyng that if he satisfied the lawe in putting hymself apon the triall of the coūtrey there were no moe waies with hym but one make thereto no other answere but onely that he would put hymself apon God the righteous Iudge of all ▪ who although he said truely that God was the chief iudge of all as the protestantes do in calling Christ the head of the church yet was ther in his case an other iudge here in this world vnder god by whō he must haue byn tried as there is in theirs an other heade here in the churche to order them and kepe thē vnder in whō Christ the chiefe head of all vseth in all necessarie knowledge to giue answere And as the felon knewe well that there was an other iudge beside god appealed not to him as though before him he should haue byn acquitted proued not guiltie but onely to gaine a longer time of life and libertie so doe I doute not our aduersaries the protestantes And truely to bothe theise kinde of men beyng bothe theeues the one sorte doyng violence to the bodie the other to the soule if suche pleas mighte be allowed how soeuer thei be coloured with the name of Christe betwene them bothe thei would freely rob the bodie and murther the soule Nowell Now proceadeth he pleasantlie and by a parable of a certaine felone all to shaketh vs out of our cloutes as he praied he might be suffered to dooe In the handlyng whereof it maie seeme he hath dealte as he was wonte when some of his felowes had forgotten their partes in the plaie to holde men occupied for the time by suppliyng that defecte with some pretie conceites or tellyng of some merie tale thereby to make the auditours to laugh and the lesse to marke the mased memorie of his mates and so to saue the matter from vtter marryng as muche as in hym might lye In like wise dooeth maister Dorman here for where he hath to proue that of necessitie there must be one onely chief heade here in earth ouer the Churche whiche is in deede the firste and moste necessarie parte of the whole treatie of the Popes supremacie and the verie foundation of all whiche not proued or els leudly proued all the reste commeth doune vpon their heades For the whiche so greate a matter little beyng as yet saied by M. Dorman and nothyng in deede and lesse remainyng behinde to bee saied the man beyng destitute of all carnest matter piththie reason and good authoritie turneth himself to his accustomed arte and by a pretie tale of a certaine felone all to shaketh vs as he before threatned he would dooe out of our masking cloutes as he termeth them and this he dooeth to supplie other defectes thereby and to make this first parte moste necessarie of all to be piththily proued by suche patchyng of i◠vp at the leaste a quarter as bigge as his seconde part of this treatie to witte that no prince or lay man maie be the onely head of the whole Churche for that priestes haue more to doo in ecclesiastical matters thā thei haue Whiche so long an impertinente parte had M. Dorman put vp in his purse and passed ouer with silence he had spared a greate deale of paper ynke and labour and of other mennes tyme also a greate deale more and had hurte his cause no more thereby then if he had lefte his dagger sheathe behynde hym when he came out in haste to plaie his parte in the pagiaunte But
one man no lesse truely then pleasantlie saied are like a nose of Waxe whiche will suffer it self easilie to bee drawen countredrawen and framed whiche waie ye liste and as a certaine rule of leade of the Lesbian building the which it is not harde to apply wherto ye will And againe the same Pighius in an other place saith We haue shewed before that the scriptures maie easilie be drawen euery waie and like a certaine Leaden rule maie without difficultie be applied to euery wicked sentence Thus farre Pighius speakyng it twise or thrise as thei saie as is meete for so woorthie a matter Now compare me the estimation and saiyng of the Scripture vsed by this Papiste with Suenkfeldius his speakyng of it The scripture saith Suenkfeldius is not Gods worde but dead letters Pighius saith the scripture is like a nose of Waxe like a rule of Leade Is Swenkfielde callyng the scriptures dead letters more wicked then is Pighius blasphemous in termyng it a nose of waxe and withall saiyng that it is so called as truelie as pleasauntlie Suche a pleasure hath this piuishe Papist in deridyng of Gods woorde Is it more to be abhorred that Swenkfielde saieth the scripture is but deade letters then that Pighius calleth it a rule of Leade Is there any thyng more dull and deade then is Leade Is there moreouer any thyng more vncertaine then a long latthe or rule of Leade readie to bend and boow euery waie Swenkfielde saieth the Scripture is but dead letters Hosius your great estate for learnyng and vertue beyng verie busie in the ende of his fourth booke againste Brentius in comparyng the Gospell written in paper and ynke with the churche whiche he calleth the liuelie Gospell as though the other should bee called the deade Gospell goeth as nere to Swenkfield as .iiij. pence doo to a grote And where he would faine haue vttered his stomacke plainely againste the scripture whiche hath so shreudlie vexed the Pope and Papistes and durst not yet he saieth thus muche Scriptura quomodo profertur à catholicis est verbum dei quomodo profertur ab haereticis est verbum diaboli The scripture as it is alleged or vttered by the Catholikes to witte Papistes is the woorde of God but as it is vttered of heretikes meaning vs it is the woorde of the Deuill Thus would Hosius by a leude imitation of saincte Hieromes woordes vsed in his vehemencie perswade the people to thinke that the Scripture vttered by any but Papistes onelie is the woorde of the deuill But the Scripture of it self is euer Gods woorde in deede though the abuse thereof bee Deuilishe and therefore Hosius by hatred of the Scripture ouerreaching hymself dooeth in deede speake thus of it vntrulie And as the Scripture is neither nose of waxe nor Leaden rule nor the woorde of the deuill for that it pleaseth Pighius or Hosius so to name it no more are wee heretikes for that it pleaseth them and other aduersaries maliciouslie so to terme vs neither bee thei themselues by and by Catholikes because thei falselie so misname themselues It is not their onelie saiyng and proouyng of nothyng that can make either vs to bee that we bee not or them not to bee that whiche in deede thei are the verie Synagoge of Satan whiche is by the light of Goddes woorde made manifeste and prooued in suche sorte now in our daies that a good parte of the Christian worlde perswaded thereby hath forsaken their Satanicall secte of Papistrie and ioygned themselues to the sincere doctrine of the Gospell whereof riseth all this their deadlie hatred and blasphemous misnamyng of the Scripture To proceade Suenkfeldius saith No more accompt is to be made of the scripture then of any other creatures emongst the whiche thei are to be rekened What saith the hoggish Papiste Pighius The scriptures maie be framed drawen and redrawen this waie that waie euery waie and applied to euery wicked sense or sentence and therefore as it seemeth by his iudgemente the Scriptures are not onely not profitable as be all Gods creatures to the whiche Suenkfeldius dooeth compare them but are hurtfull and deceitfull also appliable to euery wicked sense like as is a longe lithie Latthe or rule of Leade to euery crooked wall suche a rule as hetherto neuer did yet good Carpenter vse I trowe and like a nose of ware suche a creature as was neuer by God made Wherefore the Papistes are not onely in blasphemous woordes against the scriptures like to Suenkfeldius who compareth it to other Goddes creatures but in scoffing against the woorde of God in suche abominable sort and comparyng it to suche leude instrumentes and madde members as are leaden rules and warē noses are more horriblie blasphemous then euer was Suenkfeldius And whereas Pighius had a naturall nose and other mēbers of his bodie by the vertue of Gods woorde and yet in mockage dooeth compare Gods woorde so beneficiall to him to a nose of waxe by his swinishe tongue vttring suche blasphemous woordes it is greate pitie that he had not had accordyng to his Pighishe name an hoggishe groine in steede of his nose a swinish body accordingly that he might altogether as he was hoggish in minde so likewise in outwarde shape of bodie also haue answered fullie to his swynish name No lesse contemptuously and contumeliously also speaketh Hosius of the Scriptures who answearyng Brentius alleadgyng that kynges also had to doo with gods woorde and prouyng the same by the example of Dauid and Salomon kynges of Israel who by the motion of gods holy spirite put in writing those godly psalmes and heauenly instructions whiche haue béen of all ages and times accompted in the body of the Canonicall scriptures hath these woordes Scripsit Dauid psalmos aliquot si quid Athanasio credimus quinque tantùm Qui ni scriberet ne nunc quidem regi prohibetur aut principi quo minus aut rythmos aut Psalmos aut carmina scribat quibus Dei laudes celebret Scribimus indocti doctique poëmata passim Whiche in english is thus much to saye Dauid did write a few Psalmes if we geue any creadit to Athanasius but fiue onely Why should he not so write neither is a kyng or prince forbidden at this tyme but he may write rimes or Psalmes or verses to prayse God therby Learned and vnlearned write poetries euery where Thus farre Hosius who is not content to the derogation of the authoritie of kynges and the Scriptures ioinctly to compare Dauid his psalmes beyng of vndoubted authoritie as writen by the inspiration of the holy ghost and of the body of the canonicall scripture and approued alleged by our Sauiour Christe with rimes onely written by Princes in our daies but also by a blasphemous derision to matche them with fabulouse poesies writen by learned vnlearned it maketh no matter with him I am sure had any writen or sayd so muche in goddes churche vnder the olde lawe
agaynst the Prophetes Psalmes or the lawe for so Christe doth diuide the holy Scriptures of the olde Testament as here hath Hosius written he should according to the iudgement of the lawe haue like a wicked blasphemar be stoned to death But blasphemie against God and his holy scriptures is with our aduersaries a sporte Dayly and most horrible blasphemies against Christe are suffered in the Iues by the Pope and they neuerthelesse remaine the Popes friends specially in néede of money Onely a woorde against that false vsurpar of Rome and his leude traditions is auenged with swoorde fagot and fire moste cruelly vpon those that doo professe Christes name and all the articles of the Christian faith Whiche emongst many others is not the least proofe that y e Pope is Antichrist for that he doeth therby declare that he preferreth him selfe and his owne traditions before Christe his gospell auenging himself so extremely vpon the cōtemners of his said traditiōs and permitting blasphemers against God our sauiour Christ the holy scriptures to remayne not onely vnpunyshed but also his deare friendes But lette vs procéede with M. Dormans rehearsall of Suenkfeldius heresies The holy ghost vseth to come from aboue vvithout the help of meanes as hearing preaching or reading the scriptures VVe must looke to be taught from heauen not out of bookes saith Suenkfeldins Doo not you Papistes say the same haue not you geuē ouer preaching of gods woord your selues barred the people from reading hearing of it by your crueltie close keping of it in a language vnknowen to the people and burnyng the bookes of the scripture transiated for the peoples vnderstanding Are not you the right heyres of those Phariseis whom our sauiour speaketh of that haue taken away this key of knowledge of goddes woorde and neither will enter in your selfe nor suffer other that would to entre And thus laying aside preaching your selues and burnyng other that doo preache and barryng the people of God from reading and hearyng of his woorde you doe saye euen as did Suenkfeldius that the holy ghoste vseth to come from aboue into your Popishe churche without all helpe of meanes as hearyng preaching or readyng of the Scriptures whiche you will by no meanes suffer so to be vsed in the churche as it may be vnderstanded Are not you those who contrarie to goddes commaundement that the booke of the lawe should not departe out of the handes and from the eyes of his seruauntes haue either suche bookes as fewe can vnderstande either burne such bookes of gods law as all may vnderstand for that you will not haue them to learne of goddes booke but onely of suche traditions as are reuealed to your churche from heauen as you say Thus you sée good readers I truste euidently howe that M. Dorman hath moste vniustly charged vs and that we are as farre from Suenfeldius vile heresies as the Papistes in all poinctes by M. Dorman rehearsed agree and ioyne moste iustly with theim as I haue declared by the very woordes of Pighius D. Hardinges chiefe author and by Hosius M. Dorman his peereles pearle for learnyng and vertue as he sayeth Whiche Hosius gaue occasion to M. Dorman to make mention of Suenfeldius in this place as partly before and more plainely nowe hereafter doth appeare Dorman fol. 11. And thus vvhilest moste shamefully to the great dishonor of the vvhole realme vnder vvhose name as it vver that fardel of lies their apologie vvas sent abroade thei haue not ben ashamed to charge vvith this heresie of Suenkfeldius one of the greatest estates both for lerning and vertue that at this daie Christendom hath vve may se that thei haue not only shovved thē selues to be very vvicked and shameles men the truthe to their vtter and perpetuall infamie and shame had thei any plainly to the contrary in the vvorcks of him vvhome thei so sclaundred bearing vvitnesse against them but are also runne into the same groundes vvhereon Svvenkfilde builded his heresie their ovvne selues Novvell I trust that who so euer shall reade that conformitie betwene the papistes and Suenkfeldius and both their heresies before declared and specially by the woordes of Pighius and Hosius him selfe shall vnderstande that Hosius was not without cause charged with some affinitie to Suenkfeldius his heresie and with contempt blaspemie against God and his holy scripture wherewith Hosius writings doo abounde and beare witnesse most plenteously thereof and that therefore it is no shame at all to the author of the apologie to beare witnesse of the truthe the whiche apologie yet once again M. Dorman with one woorde after his manner confuteth calling it a fardel of lies But euery woorde that M. Dorman speaketh is not gospell Although he haue here in this his booke packed vs vp suche store of lies that he might more iustly haue intitled it a Lighter laden with lyes than a fardell of lies yet shall he and all his fellowes finde it more easie for them to sende vs ouer a Hulke or twayne full fraughted with suche lies as this and other their bookes swarme withall than to answere that litle apologie to any purpose terme he it neuer so contemptuously Concerning Hosius so great an estate of Christendome I wist not of it before Sure I am that in Polonia his countrey he is of the meaner sort of bishoppes there and what should make him so great an estate besides I know nothing but his Cardinals hatte which how much so euer M. Dormā estemeth yet the truth is that originally a Cardinall is but a person or vicar of one of the parishe churches in Rome or there about in the countrey For after that the Popes had iniuriously and violētly put the people of Rome from the election of the sayde Popes beyng but byshoppes of Rome which election of right apperteined to them ioinctly with the cleargie and had geuen full authoritie to the persons and vicars of the parishes in Rome that they alone should elect the Pope Pope Paschall the first of that name to adourne these Papall electours with some solemne title named these single soled clerkes Cardinalles and Pope Nicolas the second of that name confirmed the same as is in y e Florentine historie declared But yet hitherto were these Papall electors footemen for that they were not as yet hable to paye for their horse meate in Rome where prouander is deare because they had chaunged their name and not mended their liuinges they went appareiled as yet like other commen curates no better than our Cardinalles in Paules cathedrall church yea many of them farre wourse This vncomlinesse pope Innocentius the fourth of that name wysely consideryng sayth Platina Statuitvt Cardinales equo in publicum vecti galero rubrovterentur honestandi ordinis causa That is to saye He made a statute or ordre that the Cardinalles should ryde on horsebacke when thei came abroade and should were a redde hatte for the honestie of the
still But how soeuer Caluin and Luther agree in the exposition of these fewe woordes Hoc est corpus meum This is my bodie thei agree bothe in this that the Papistes expound them falsely For to vse the places by M. Dorman noted out of Hosius he nor all Papistes with hym shall neuer be able to showe cause why these woordes Ego sum vitis vera I am the true vine dooe not prooue as well a transubstantiation as Hoc est corpus meum This is my bodie Is not this as plainlie spoken and as piththilie I am a true or a verie vine as This is my bodie Naie if Christe had saied likewise this is my true and verie bodie as he saied I am a true or verie dine what a rule had we then had Christe saieth Ego sum panis I am breade and yet no transubstantiation of his bodie into breade Why should these woordes Hoc est corpus meum This is my bodie more transubstantiate bread into his bodie This is fondlie alleged saieth M. Dorman If wee saie likewise that all that he hath here said of the controuersie of the Sacramente out of place leauyng his purposed matter vnproued is verie fonde what hath he then wonne that I maie vse his owne phrase Dorman Fol. 13. The Anabaptistes who denie the Baptisme of infantes leane thei not thinke you to this grounde of yours Yea truelie and good reason it is that beyng all heretikes as you are although in some poinctes dissentyng yet all ioignyng and agreeing in one cancred hatred againste the Churche you should all vse the same rules principles For that I maie here passe ouer that reason of the Anabaptistes which belongeth to an other place that therefore infantes must not bee Baptized because it is not expressed in Scripture a principle also of your religion but deliuered vnto vs by tradition saie thei not also that thei haue the scripture plaine for them againste vs VVhere it hath Qui crediderit baptizatus fuerit saluus erit He that beleueth and is baptized shal bee saued and againe in an other place vna fides vnum baptisma one faithe one baptisme By whiche places saie thei it appeareth that faithe must go before and baptisme folowe after And when the Catholikes to represse and vtterlie ouerthrowe this brutishe and beastlie opinion answere that for infantes thus baptized the faithe of the churche is sufficient and accounted for theirs crie thei not as you doe that in this controuersie one place of scripture muste expounde an other And that therefore where as the scripture requireth in him that is baptized faithe that thei must haue it of their owne accordyng to the Apostles saiyng fides ex auditu faithe commeth by hearyng whiche infantes can not haue and according to the saiyng of the Prophete Iustus ex fide sua victurus est the iuste manne shall liue by his owne faithe Nowell First to M. Dormans false sclaunder we answere we bee no heretikes no Arrians no Anabaptistes we teache of Christes diuinitie and of Baptisme and all other thynges accordyng to Gods woorde Where he saieth the Catholikes doo represse and ouerthrowe the brutishe opinions of the Anabaptistes we aunswere that it is moste certaine well knowen to the worlde that our menne haue saied and written more againste them then euer did the Papistes Wherefore wee bee therein as in all other thynges in deede the Catholikes and not thei Dorman Fol. 13. I am sorie that in answeryng to this fonde reason I haue been compelled to make any mention of suche horrible heresies as these are whiche I had muche rather were with their firste authours buried in helle from whence thei came where neither thei nor their name mighte euer hereafter offende the conscience of any good Christian manne But as I haue necessarilie laied before your eyes theise that by a parte you maie iudge of the whole so haue I willinglie staied my selfe from rehearsyng whole swarmes of suche opinions as beyng of all menne taken for confessed heresies onelie depende vpon this one false grounde that wee neede here in earth no other iudge to decide and determine doubtes arisyng vpon the scripture then the scripture it self whiche beyng thei saie laied and conferred together one texte with an other will not faile to bryng vs to the right vnderstandyng thereof Nowell What other necessitie I praie you put the man to this sorowe he speaketh of or compelled hym to suche mention but onelie the defecte of proofes for his purposed matter of the necessitie of one heade ouer all the churche whiche lacke he is driuen to supplie with such digressions of the Swenkfeldians Arrians and Anabaptistes altogether impertinente to his purpose and with declaimyng against the scriptures and woorde of God Whiche distresse also droue him destitute of matter so often to repeate that one séelie similitude and euell likelihood betwene the Iuishe high Priest and the Pope And yet M. Dorman thus digressyng and swaruyng hymself is not ashamed to speake to the Bishop of Sarum after this sorte I moste hartelie praie you keepe you without straiyng from the matter or allegyng of prooues impertinente as close as you can c. This is M. Dormans requeste whereof hymself hath geuen an example as you here maie see Now if al heretikes and heresies were as M. Dorman wisheth buried in hell then should the Pope with all his Papistes be buried together with them and we might liue still and with quietnesse praise Gods holie name preache his blessed woorde whiche maister Dorman dooeth set so light by To the reste we saie that as for resoluyng of doubtes wee dooe with saincte Augustine as is before rehersed thinke the conference of scriptures to bée moste necessarie so dooe we not refuse any other helpe of learned bishops as our guides and directours by the same Scriptures to all truthe But suche a one onelie supreme heade or Iudge ouer all the Churche as M. Dorman would haue to bee consulted of all men of all countries and languages vpon all doubtes arisyng neither dooe we acknowlege neither is it possible any suche to be And we saie that suche as haue chalenged or pretended so to be are moste presumptuous moste false vsurpers Now where M. Dorman would proue the conference of Scriptures a vaine or euill thing bicause the Arrians and Anabaptistes vsed it and vs to be heretikes as thei be because we vse the same groūdes to witte cōferring of scriptures together he might aswell reiecte all allegyng of scripture because the deuill vsed it and conclude that we bee of the deuill because we vse the same grounde that he dooeth that is to saie the allegyng of Scriptures Yea and he maie by the same reason finde faulte with Christe our sauiour and his holie Apostles who dooe so muche vse the saied allegyng of scriptures And M. Dorman in so dooyng should bee as reasonable as he is in callyng vs heretikes and blamyng vs vsyng