owne confession was common to all Pastors though afterwards appropriated to some speciall persons as if he should haue said I grant that which here you doe proue but yet that followeth not hereon which you intended not That the Churches were Diocesses and the Bishops Diocesan like to ours for the substance of their office I proued before in the former part here I am so farre from inferring or prouing it that I presuppose it as sufficiently proued before But this is the poore shift which the refuter vsually flyeth vnto when he hath nothing to answere He perswaded himselfe such was his iudgement that in the question of parishes and Diocesses he had the vpper hand and therefore when he is foiled in any of the points following he flyeth to that as his refuge yea but though this be so as you say yet the Church was not a Diocese nor the Bishop a Diocesan But how little reason he hath to imagine Philippi one of the cheife Cities of Macedonia to haue beene a parish Church may be gathered by that which before hath beene said of the like Cities Where he saith I goe about to deceiue the reader with the like equiuocation of the word Bishop he doth me wrong But he and his consorts deceiue the readers when they would perswade them that because in the Apostles writings and for some part of the Apostles time the names Episcopus Presbyter were confounded namely vntill Bishops began to be chosen from among the Presbyters that therefore the offices were confounded For here I shew that when Presbyters were called Episcopi those who euer since the Apostles times haue beene called Bishops were then called the Agels and the Apostles of the Churches to whom as I noted before out of Theodoret those who were then called Episcopi that is Presbyters were subiect For as I said in the Sermon whiles the Episcopall power was in the Apostles and Apostolicke men those who had that power were called Apostles and therefore Ambrose by Apostles in some places of Scripture vnderstandeth Bishops and to the like purpose Cyprian Apostolos id est Episcopos praepositos dominus elegit the Lord chose Apostles that is Bishops and Gouernours For as Theodoret hath well obserued on 1 Tim. 3. In times past saith he they called the same men Presbyters and Bishops and those who now are called Bishops they named Apostles But in processe of time they left the name Apostle to those who are properly called Apostles and the name of Bishop they gaue to them who had beene called Apostles Thus Epaphroditus was the Apostle of the Philippians Titus of the Cretians and Timothie of the Asians Which testimony if it be conferred with some before cited out of Ierome the truth concerning this matter will appeare to be this Whiles the Bishops were Apostles and Apostolicke men for such were the first Bishops the Angels of the Churches were also called the Apostles of the Churches other Ministers being then called Presbyteri Episcopi indifferently but when the first Bishops being dead their successours were to be chosen out of the Presbyters which Ierome noteth to haue been done at Alexandria euer since the death of S. Marke and was done in all other places where were no Euangelists or Apostolicall men remayning then they left the name Apostle and for difference sake called him the Bishop Wherefore as I said in the Sermon it was not long that the name Episcopus was confounded with Presbyter For Ignatius who was a B. aboue thirtie yeares in the Apostles time after that Evodius had beene B. of Antioch aboue twenty yeares before him appropriateth the name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to a Bishop and vsually distinguisheth the three degrees of the Clergie as the Church euer since the Apostles hath distinguished them by these three names Bishop Presbyter and Deacon Yea but we may gather out of Theodorets testimonie saith the Refuter that the report which M. D. maketh of Ignatius his appropriating the name of Episcopus to a Diocesan Bishop is without any sufficient warrant For seeing Ignatius liued in the Apostles times and died within sixe yeares after S. Iohn and Theodoret saith that in processe of time the name of B. was imposed it is not likely Ignatius should be the imposer of it No man includeth the processe of time within the compasse of sixe yeares any man will thinke The processe of time wherof Theodoret speaketh was as appeareth by conference of him with Ierome in the Apostles time At the first towards the beginning of the Apostles time the Gouernours of the Churches were called Apostles but in processe of time when the first Bishops who had beene Apostles or Apostolicall men were dead and now were to be chosen out of the Presbyters which was towards the latter end of the Apostles times then they began to be called Episcopi Bishops And that this was so appeareth not onely by Ignatius who continually vseth the word as the first and highest degree of the Clergie Presbyters as the second and Deacons as the third but also by other monuments of antiquity which I mentioned in the Sermon I haue the longer insisted on this point because it is of great consequence For hereby it appeareth first that when the name Presbyter and Episcopus were confounded yet the offices of Bishops and Presbyters were not confounded Secondly that Bishops being then called Apostoli were superiour to other Ministers who were called Presbyteri Episcopi And lastly that such Bishops as were superiour to other Ministers were in the Apostles times and mentioned in the Apostles writings The IIII. CHAPTER Shewing the Places where and the Persons whom the Apostles ordayned BB but chiefly that Timothie was B. of Ephesus and Titus of Creet Serm. Sect. 7. pag. 72. But we are also to shew the places where and the persons whom the Apostles ordayned BB. and first out of the scriptures c. to all ordayned there pag. 75. IN this section and the two next following I proue that Timothie and Titus were by S. Paul ordayned Bishops the one of Ephesus the other of Creet and maintaine the same assertion against their obiections Afterwards I shew out of other the auncientest monuments of antiquitie that other BB. of other places were ordayned by the Apostles This saith the Refuter is the last supply to maintaine the former antecedent by shewing the places where and the persons whom the Apostles ordayned Bishops If this faile he is vndone As who should say that all which hitherto hath beene said hath by him beene very learnedly and sufficiently refuted When as in truth hee hath not beene able to confute any one sentence or line of the Sermon hitherto with soundnesse of reason or euidence of truth And the like assurance I haue of that which followeth Now that Timothie and Titus were by the Apostle ordained Bishops I proue by a two-fold reason which I ioyned together is thus to be
to shew that the dioceses or circuits of Churches were vsually lessened but that they were any wheres inlarged he will hardly shew Therefore looke what the circuits of the Churches or Bishops charges were in Eusebius or Epiphanius his time the same at the least they were in the first two hundred yeeres And whereas I alleage one of the antient canons called the Apostles nor that I thinke they were of the Apostles owne penning but that for their antientnesse and authority they are so called and by all sorts of writers so alleaged he chargeth me with seeking to bleare mens eyes with the name of the Apostles Canons In that I said they were so called it doth sufficienttly both here and where after I cite them shew my meaning But let vs heare what he can say against them for my mind giueth me he will leaue them in better credit then hee found them If wee were so simple saith he as to take them for their doing yet should not a man of his profession so abuse our simplicity He knoweth there was a time when Rome her selfe saw too much in them to acknowledge them for the Apostles See Gratians decree dist 15. c. sancta Romana dist 16. cap. canones In both places it is said that they are apohryphall as we call the bookes of Ecclesiasticus and Wisdome not because they are either false or counterfet but because they are not acknowledged to be of the Apostles owne writing for if they were they ought to be esteemed of canonicall authority like the other scriptures Notwithstanding they are ecclesiasticall canons which for their great antiquity and authentike authority are commonly called Apostolicall receiued of antient Fathers and approoued by Councels And although some of them may be suspected as foisted in or depraued by heretikes yet those which are specially cited by Fathers and Councels as authentike are without exception being of as great credit as any other ecclesiasticall writings whatsoeuer Such is the canon wee speake of the words whereof which I cited being verbatim recited in the Councell of Antioch I will not discusse this controuersie wherein much may be said on both sides Only this J will say that as Damascen exceeded the truth in reckoning them with the canonicall scriptures so some learned and iudicious men haue been much ouerseene in too much censuring of them as first that they are condemned in the canon law when indeed the very scope of the 16. distinction is to authorize them and to acknowledge them though not as canonicall scriptures yet as authenticall canons Secondly that Isidor condemneth them Whereas indeed the words of Isidor in the true copy are these That by reason of their authority we prefixe before the other councels the canons called the Apostles although of some they are called apocryphal because the greater part receiue them and the holy fathers haue by synodall authority ratified them and placed them among canonicall constitutions Thirdly that they are condemned by the Councell in Trullo when as indeed that Councell reiecting 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the constitutions of Clement which also were called Apostolicall because they were depraued by heretikes authorized the canons decreeing that the 85. canons shall remaine firme and sure which of their holy and blessed fore-fathers were receiued and confirmed and deliuered vnto them in the name of the holy and glorious Apostles And whereas some thinke that Epiphanius is the first that mentioneth them I finde it to bee otherwise For diuers of them are cited before his time being sometimes called absolutely the canons sometimes the ecclesiasticall canons sometimes the antient receiued canons of our Fathers sometimes Apostolicall canons as I haue partly noted before Neither is the authority of the generall Councell held at Ephesus though after Epiphanius his time to be neglected which calleth them the canons of the holy Apostles So much of those canons and also of this section which though it doe most directly and necessarily conclude that Bishops were set ouer dioceses yet he calleth it a needlesse discourse which because he knew not how to answere he taketh leaue to passe by it Serm. sect 5. pag. 26. These three points whereof hitherto I haue intreated are of such euident c. to page 28. line 6. In this section I conclude the three first points with the testimony of Caluin whom I produce not as this sophister cauilleth as a captiue by way of triumph but as one that taketh part with vs against our new sect of Disciplinarians especially in the second and third point which their dissenting from Caluin Beza and other learned Authors of discipline he alwaies cunningly dissembleth And that his authority may be of more weight as I confesse him to haue bin a worthy seruant of Christ whose memory with me is blessed so I professe him to haue bin the first or chiefe founder of the Presbyterian or Geneuian discipline in setting vp whereof the Bishopricke being dissolued and the common weale reduced to a popular State I acknowledge him to haue dealt very wisely his proiect of discipline being the best that that Citie did seeme at that time capable of there being no hope that either a Bishop or a Presbytery consisting wholly of Ministers would be admitted But he cannot indure to heare that Caluin should bee esteemed the first founder of this discipline For coÌ„futation whereof he telleth vs what we haue heard an hundred times but neuer shall see proued that this discipline was both practised in the Apostles times and primitiue Church and hath testimony from many learned men Ignatius Tertullian Cyprian Ambrose c. Wickliffe the Waldenses Luther and diuers others hereafter to be named that liued before Caluin writ hee should haue said that writ before Caluin liued and then not one word of all this goodly speech had been true which as I haue manifested already in respect of Ignatius Tertullian Cyprian Ambrose Luther so farre as they haue been alleaged so shall I in respect of Wickliffe and the Waldenses whoneuer once dreamed of their lay presbyteries and much lesse of their new-found parish discipline Neither can he abide that Caluin should be said to agree with vs in these three points but he must abide it for truth will preuaile But that were exceeding strange saith hee that he should ouerthrow that discipline which he was so carefull to establish Let him not abuse the Reader his agreeing with vs in the second and third point ouerthroweth the new-found parish discipline but agreeth with the doctrine of the learned Reformers and with the practise of Geneua vnderstanding by B. as they doe the President of their Presbytery their Church being a diocesse consisting of many parishes ouer which one Presbytery only is appointed Of which Presbytery if the President were perpetuall â—as he was in Caluins time and as alwaies he was in the primitiue Church there being not one instance to be giuen to the
Ierome denies it as well as he For that which he addeth of diuers others consenting in iudgement is a vaine flourish let him name but one other in the first six hundred yeeres I thinke I might say 1000. and I wil yeeld the cause And those latter Writers which consent with him vse his words build vpon his authority so that the whole weight of this cause lieth on Ieroms shoulders whoÌ„ if I can disburdeÌ„ thereof there can nothing at all be produced out of antiquitie against the superioritie of Bishops First then I say that they abuse Ierome who match him with Aërius for besides that Aërius was a damned hereticke being a most perfect Arian as Epiphanius saith who liued at the same time liuing in a Church of Arians standing in election for the Bishopricke against Eustathius who also was an Arrian out of a discontented humor the common sourse of Schisme and heresie broached this heresie as Epiphanius Augustine censure it Presbyterum ab Episcope nulla differentia debere discerni 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 denying the Superiority of Bishops both de Iure as Augustine reporteth his opinion and de facto as Epiphanius alledging that there is no difference between a Bishop and a Presbyter For there is one order saith he of both one honor and one dignitie The Bishop imposeth hands so doth the Presbyter the B. giueth the lauer of Baptisme so doth the Presbyter the B. doth administer Gods worship so doth the Presbyter the B. sitteth on the throne so also doth the Presbyter But Ierome was not so mad to vse the refuters words of Aërius who indeed as Epiphanius saith was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a franticke fellow as to deny the Superioritie of BB. de facto which oftentimes he doth auouch neither doth he deny it de Iure And therfore the refuter here hath deliuered two vntruthes the one that he saith Aërius did not deny the Superioritie of BB. de facto which most manifestly he did and did it no doubt with this mind that though he missed of the Bishopricke which ambitiously he had desired yet he would be thought as good a man as a Bishop The other that he saith Ierome denied the Superiority of BB. de Iure For it is most euident by many testimonies alledged in the Sermon that Ierome held the Superiority of Bishops to be lawfull and necessary For though somewheres he saith that Bishops are greater then Presbyters rather by the custome of the Church then by the truth of Diuine disposition yet he acknowledgeth that custome to be an Apostolicall tradition and therefore either he may be vnderstood as holding the superioritie of BB. to be not Diuini but Apostolici iuris or he may be interpreted as speaking of the names prouing by diuers testimonies of the Scripture that Presbyters are called Bishops But heereof wee may not conclude that therefore Presbyters and Bishops are all one for not onely Bishops but also Apostles are called Presbyters and the Apostleship is called Bishopricke For howsoeuer all Presbyters are in the Scriptures called Angels and Bishops yet that one among many who had singular preheminence aboue the rest is by the warrant of the holy Ghost called the Angell of the Church and by the same warrant may be called the Bishop Now whereas Aërius for denying the superiority of Bishops was by Epiphanius and Augustine iudged and heretike hereby it appeareth that this alleagation not onely proueth the superiority de facto but de iure for seeing there is no heresie which is not repugnant to Gods word it is euident that they who iudged this opinion of Aerius to be an heresie did also iudge it contrarie to Gods word Neither did Epiphanius and Augustine alone condemne Aërius for an heretike but as Epiphanius reporteth all Churches both in City and Countrey did so detest him and his followers that being abandoned of all they were forced to liue in the open fields and in wods And whereas some obiect against Epiphanius and Augustine in defence of Aerius that his opinion is not heresie because Epiphanius did not sufficiently answer one of Aërius his allegations out of Scripture where Presbyters seeme to be called Bishops and that Augustine followed Epiphanius himselfe not vnderstanding how farre the name of an heretike is to be extended these are very slender exceptions to be taken by so learned a man For be it that Epiphanius did not sufficiently answere some one of Aërius his allegations is that sufficient to excuse Aërius from being an heretike seeing that testimony may be sufficiently answered as J haue shewed and seeing euery testimony alleaged by each heretike hath not alwaies beene sufficiently answered by euery one that hath written against them The Allegation which Aërius bringeth out of Phil. 1.1 doth onely proue that the Presbyters were called Bishops at what time he which was the Bishop of Philippi namely Epaphroditus was called their Apostle And it is confessed by many of the Fathers that howsoeuer there were many in Philippi which in a generall signification were called Bishops yet there was but one nay that there could be but one which properly was called the Bishop of Philippi And as touching Augustine I maruell that learned men could derogate so much from him as that he at that time especially would write vpon the authoritie of others what himselfe vnderstood not For Augustine was no youngling or nouice at that time but hee wrote that booke in his elder age euen after hee had written his bookes of Retractations at what time hee had written 230. bookes besides his Epistles and Homilies Neither doth Augustine write any thing in his preface of that booke whereby it might bee gathered that hee was in doubt whether any of those particulars which he noteth were to be judged heresies onely he saith that what maketh an Heretike can in his judgement hardly if at all be set downe in an accurate definition Notwithstanding he distributeth his intended Treaâ—ise into two parts The first of the heresies which after Christs ascension had been contrarie to his doctrine and which he could come to the knowledge of among which the heresies of Aërius haue the 53. place in the latter hee promiseth to dispute what maketh an Heretike But though he came not to that or if he did what he wrote of that point is not come to our hands yet in the conclusion of his Treatise which is extant he saith thus What the Catholike Church holdeth against these meaning all the 88. heresies which before he had recited it is but a superfluous question seeing it is sufficient in this behalfe to know Eam contra istâ— sentire nec aliquid horum in fidem quenquam dâ—bere recipere that the iudgement of the Church is contrary to these and that no man ought to receiue any of these into his beleefe And again Omnis itaque Christianus Catholicus istâ— non debet credere
whom a paternall and pastorall authoritie is committed may worthily be honoured with the title of Lords To this he replieth that we call not Shepheards nor Fathers Lords and therefore the paternall or pastorall authoritie of Bishops doth not make them capable of such Lordly titles J answer that Magistrates yea Princes both in Scriptures and prophane Writers are called Pastors as well as Bishops and for the same cause are Lords Neither doe I doubt but that the title of Father being giuen by way of honour to him that is not a naturall Father is a word of as great honour at the least as Lord and that is the signification of the name Papa which hauing beene giuen in the Primitiue Church to all Bishops as a title of eminent honour is for that cause by the Pope of Rome appropriated to himselfe The second there is too great oddes betweene the titles of Bishops and other Ministers the one being called Masters the other Lords I answered there is no such great difference betweene Master and Lord that inferiour Minister which assume to themselues the title of Master should denie the title of Lord to Bishops Hee replieth as conceiuing my speech simply that there was no great difference betweene Master and Lord. If you respect their vse in relation as they are referred to their correlatiues there is no difference if the vse without relation among vs there is great difference but yet not so great as that Ministers which assume the one to themselues should denie the other to Bishops there being as great difference betwixt their degrees as their titles Where he saith it is not assumed but giuen by custome to them as Masters of Arts both parts are false for both it is giuen to all Ministers as they are Ministers though not Masters of Arts though not graduates and also I especially meant certaine Ministers who not enduring the title of Lord to be giuen to Bishops will neither tell you their name by speech nor set it downe in writing without the preface of Mastership The third if Bishops bee called Lords then are they Lords of the Church I answered it followeth no more that they are therefore Lords of the Church because they are called Lords then the Ministers are Masters of the Church because they are called Masters for neither of these titles is giuen to them with relation but as simple titles of honour and reuerence No saith he let their stiles speake Lord of Hath and Welles Lord of Rochester c. What Lord of the Cities nothing lesse but Lords of the Diocese They are Lords of neither but Lord BB. both of the City and Diocese And the relation is not in the word Lord but in the word Bishop though it bee not expressed alwaies but many times is vnderstood The Refuter hauing thus weakly friuolously and fondlie shifted off my arguments and testimonies rather then lie shifted off my arguments and testimonies rather then answered them there being not one line in my Sermon hitherto which I haue not defended with euidence of truth against his cauillations notwithstanding concludeth with a most insolent bragge as if he had as his fauourites giue out laid me on my backe And therefore as some wrestlers after they haue giuen one the foile will iet with their hands vnder their side challenging all others euen so he hauing in his weake conceit giuen me a strong ouerthrow because he findeth me too weake to stand in his armes hee challengeth all commers saying Let him that thinketh he can say more supplie his default I do vnfainedly confesse there be a great number in this Land blessed be God who are able to say much more in this cause then I am notwithstanding a stronger propugner thereof shall not neede against this oppugner And because I am assured in my conscience of the truth and goodnesse of the cause I promise the Refuter if this which now I haue written will not conuince him as I hope it will whiles he will deale as a Disputer and not as a Libeller I will neuer giue him ouer God giuing me life and health vntill I haue vtterly put him to silence In the meane time let the Reader looke backe to that which hath beene said on both sides let him call to minde if he can what one proofe this Refuter hath brought for the paritie of Ministers what one sound answer he hath giuen to any one argument or testimonie to my one proposition or assumption which I haue produced and then let him consider whether this glorious insultation proceeded not from an euill conscience to a worse purpose which is to retaine the simple seduced people in their former tearmes of factiousnes THE FOVRTH BOOKE Maintayning the fift point that the Episcopall function is of Apostolicall and diuine Institution The I. CHAPTER Prouing the Episcopall function to be of Apostolicall institution because it was generally receiued in the first 300. yeeres after the Apostles Serm. pag. 54. It remaineth that I should demonstrate not onely the lawfulnesse of the BB. calling c. to page 55. li. 7. THE Refuter finding himselfe vnable to confute this discourse of the lawfulnesse of the BB. calling would faine perswade his Reader that it is needlesse moued and mouing thereto by as friuolous reasons as euer were heard of For though it be true that this point hath already beene proued by one argument is it therefore needlesse to confirme the same by a second Did euer any man meete with such a captious trifler as would not permit a man to proue the same truth by two arguments but the one must straight be reiected as needlesse but indeed his analysis was forced as he could not but discerne both by the distribution of the Sermon page 2. and also by the transition here vsed neither was this point handled before but the former assertion whereby the text was explicated that the Angels or Bishops of the primitiue Church were diocesan Bishops and such for the substance of their calling as ours be superiour to other ministers in degree c. This which now wee are to handle is the second assertion being a doctrine gathered out of the text so explicated I confesse the former doth proue the latter and that doth commend the methode of my Sermon and both being disposed together may make this Enthymeme The Pastors or gouernours of the primitiue Church here meant by the Angels were diocesan Bishops and such for the substance of their calling as ours be Therefore the calling of such diocesan Bishops as ours be is lawfull But I contented not my selfe with collecting the doctrine out of the text but as the manner of all preachers is when they haue collected a doctrine which is controuersall I thought it needfull to proue and to confirme the same with other arguments But other arguments saith he needed not if the three middle points were sufficiently cleared what will he assume but the three former points were sufficiently cleared
the Apostles would put off the matter till there was no remedie and I cannot much blame them if it be true which D. Bilson saith that they were to keepe the power of imposition of hands to themselues vnlesse they would loose their Apostleship It is more meruaile therefore that they would ordaine any Bishops at all as long as they liued then that they would deferre the doing of it so long as they could Which words as they contayne a meere cauill at my words not worth the answering so a meere belying of that reuerend B. who saith that the Apostles could not loose that viz. the power of imposing hands and deliuering vnto Sathan which the Fathers call Episcopall power vnlesse they lost the Apostleship withall Secondly hee obiecteth want of proofes What proofe bringeth he that the Apostles ordayned such Bishops in other Churches neither one text of Scripture nor any testimonie out of the ancient Writers onely authoritate praetoria hee telleth vs Pythagoras like they did so c. Here in complayning of the want of proofes he giueth sufficient proofe of a bad conscience In this section I did but in generall hauing noted the difference of the time declare what course the Apostles tooke first in deferring the choise of Bishops and afterwards in appointing them The proofes doe follow in the sections following shewing the places where and the persons whom the Apostles ordayned Bishops That imputation of speaking Pythagoras like hee hath often layd vpon me and yet not so oft as vniustly who haue in this Sermon and in this Treatise deliuered nothing almost without plentifull proofe or sufficient authority Thirdly hee carpeth at the names wherewith I said the first Bishoppes were called asking what is all this to the matter Would he prooue they were Diocesan Bishops because they were called by these names what a notorious cauiller is this may nothing be spoken but by way of proofe may nothing be said by declaration or explanation or preuention I knew it was obiected that Bishops are not mentioned in the scriptures the name Episcopus Bishop being giuen to Prebyters and therefore that is not like they were ordayned by the Apostles of vvhom no mention is in the Scriptures For preuention of this obiection or assoyling this doubt I declared first that the Bishops in the writings of the Apostles are called sometimes the Angels of the Churches sometimes their rulers sometimes their Apostles Yea but in my former Sermon I gaue all these names saue onely the name of Apostles to all ministers The former Sermon is of ministers in generall including the Bishops and diuers things there spoken of ministers in generall doe principally belong to Bishops All Pastors are rulers or rectors of their seuerall flockes but the Bishops are rulers both of them and their flocke All ministers are called Angelâ— but the Bishop alone is the Angell of each Church or Diocese c. But by what authority saith he is the title of Apostle appropriated to BB he would haue said communicated to them with the twelue For I know no man so foolish as to appropriate it to the Bishops This reason I rendred why they be called the Apostles of the Churches because they succeeded the Apostles in the gouernment of the particular Churches whereof I gaue instance Phil. 2.25 where Epaphroditus who was the B. or Pastor of Philippi is therefore called their Apostle Therefore saith he Who saith so Ambrose Ierome Theodoret Caluin Thomas Aquinas if we will beleiue D. D. but if we will looke vpon the bookes themselues not one of them saith so Caluin Aquinas and some other indeed as Lyra interlineall glosse Lombard Anselme c. are of minde that Apostle there signifieth teacher and no more Caluin saith thus The name of Apostle here as in many other places is taken generally for proquolibet Euangelista for any Euangelist But by their Euangelist he vnderstandeth their Pastor and so calleth him diuers times vsing that word vpon that occasion sixe or seauen times in that place Paul sendeth to them Epaphroditus ne Pastore carerent qui recte compositum statum tueretur least they should want their Pastor who might maintaine their well ordered state On these words verse 26. He had a longing desire towards you all and was pensiue because you had heard that he was sicke Caluin noteth a signe of a true Pastor that when he was farre distant from them notwithstanding was affected with the care and desire of his flocke and when he vnderstood that his sheepe sorrowed for his sake was pensiue for their sorrow In like manner the godly carefulnesse of the Philippians for their Pastor is noted on the 27. where Paul signifieth what griefe he should haue conceiued if Epaphroditus had died Paul saith he was mooued with the losse of the Church which he saw would haue beene destituted optimo Pastore of a very good Pastor in so great want of good men On the twenty eight he saith Paul did the more carefully send him because he was sory that for his occasion he had beene withheld from the flocke committed to him On the twenty nineth he obserueth how desirous Paul is that good Pastors may be much esteemed c. let the reader therefore iudge whether Epaphroditus were not in Caluins iudgement the Pastor of the Philippians By the Apostle saith Ambrose he was made their Apostle that is Bishop as Ambrose expoundeth the word in other places Apostoli Episcopi sunt the Apostles are Bishops But according to the refuters sence he had beene an Apostle not of Pauls making but of their owne Ierome writing on those words my fellow Souldiour and your Apostle fellow Souldiour saith he by reason of his honour because he also had receiued the office of being an Apostle among them And on those words haue in honour such not onely him saith hee qui vester est Doctor who is your Doctor by vvhich vvord in Ieromes time Bishop most commonly was signified c. Theodoret saith thus hee called him Apostle because to him the charge of them was committed Wherefore it is manifest that those which in the beginning of the Epistle were called Bishops were vnder him as hauing the place of Presbyters And from this place as afterwards I noted Theodoret gathereth that at the first they whom now wee call Bishops were called Apostles Thus Epaphroditus was the Apostle of the Philippians Thomas Aquinas hee calleth him brother saith he by reason of his faith fellow worker in the labour of preaching fellow souldier because they had suffered tribulation together your Apostle that is Doctor Hic fuit Episcopus Philippensium Hee was the Bishop of the Philippians And so saith Bullinger Philippensium Episcopus erat With what face therefore could the Refuter denie that any one of these Authors did say that hee was therefore called the Apostle of the Philippians because hee vvas their Bishop and Pastor And so are they to be
vnderstood vvho expound the vvord Apostle by Teacher As Chrysostome 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and those vvhom the Refuter nameth For they did not by Apostle vnderstand euery common Teacher or teaching Presbyter but specialem doctorem saith Anselme instructorem praecipuum their chiefe instructor sayeth Dionysius Carthusianus These authors and more as they doe all giue testimony with my exposition so against that interpretation of the word Apostle which the refuter bringeth who would haue him called Apostle not in respect of any sacred function which he performed towards them but because he was their Messenger to the Apostle And of this iudgement he saith are Primasius Haymo Caietan and two others which be as much partyes in this cause as himselfe Beza and Piscator And Caluin acknowledgeth it to agree with the place Primasius saith that Epaphroditus had receiued gradum Apostolatus the degree of Apostleshippe among them Caluin doth indeed mention that interpretation but so as he preferreth the other sed prior sensus meliùs meo iudicio conuenit But the former sence in my iudgement agreeth better He could not thinke that both sences being so different agreed to the text Yea but he hath two reasons to proue his to be the more likely sence First as the words following in the same Verse and Chapt. 4.18 doe shew how he ministred to him so the same phrase is vsed to the like purpose 2 Cor. 8.23 where the brethren sent with Titus to receiue the Corinthians beneuolence are called Apostles that is messengers of the Churches I acknowledge that Epaphroditus brought a gratuity from the Philippians to Paul to supply his necessity being a prisoner in Rome And the brethren likewise who accompanyed Titus were to receiue the beneuolence of the Corinthians but it is vnlikely that either he or they were called the Apostles of the Churches in that regard It appeareth by diuers of Ignatius his Epistles that when the churches did send one vpon a Christian Embassage the B. commonly was entreated to take that Embassage vpon him In like manner the Philippians being to send as it were vpon Embassage to Paul Epaphroditus their B. vndertooke that voyage He being therfore both their B. and their Embassadour it is more likely that he was called their Apostle because he was their Bishop then for that hee was their Embassadour For it is vnlikely that the name of that sacred function of the Apostles of Christ who also himselfe is the Apostle of our profession should be vsed in the Scriptures to signifie the messengers of men Besides in both places the Apostle intendeth by this title highly to commend Epaphroditus and the others but this had beene but a small commendation that they were messengers of the Churches Againe if they in 2 Cor. 8. were called the Apostles of the Churches because they were their messengers then those Churches should haue sent them but it is euident that Paul himselfe sent them for as it was required of him Gal. 2 so had hee vndertaken to procure a supply for the reliefe of the brethren in Iudaea who were oppressed vvith famine And to that end hauing before dealt with the Corinthians sendeth Titus and two others to receiue their contribution His second reason is that it standeth not so well with the properties of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifieth a messenger to entitle any man in regard of his ministeriall function their Apostle to whom as his from whom hee is sent And therefore among all the titles Paul taketh to himselfe to magnifie his office he neuer calleth himselfe their or your Apostle but an Apostle of Christ and an Apostle to them Wee may therefore say of M. D. as Iunius doth of Theodoret the clearest witnesse he alledgeth he is deceiued by the aequiuocation of the word Apostolos which sometimes in a common and generall sence is giuen to any one that is sent as a messenger and sometimes more specially ascribed to those that were imployed as the Apostles in an extraordinarie and high Embassage from Christ. Here the Refuter whiles he goeth about to discouer my ignorance as though I knew not the signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as well as he bewrayeth his owne For it is euident that in the Scriptures the vvord is vsed with reuerence as vvell to the parties to vvhom as to the party from vvhom the Apostle is sent Thus Paul calleth himselfe the Apostle of the Gentiles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and saith that Peter had 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Apostleship of Circumcision meaning that he was the Apostle of the Iewes because to himselfe was committed the Gospel of vncircumcision as to Peter of the circumcision So Angels haue relation not only to the sender who is God but to the parties to whom they are sent and are called their Angels And euen as Angels absolutely spoken is a title of all ministers who are sent of God but vsed with reference to the Churches whereto they are sent as the Angels of the seauen Churches doe signifie the Bishops or Pastors of the same churches so Apostoli absolutely vsed is a title of all Embassadours sent from God with authority Apostolicall though 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 giuen to Paul and Barnabas and the twelue Apostles but vsed with reference to particular Churches doth signifie their Bishops And in that sence Epaphroditus is called the Apostle of the Philippians And howsoeuer the word may signifie any messenger with relation to any sender yet in the scriptures it is not vsed to signifie messengers sent from men neither is to be translated otherwise then Apostle For though our Sauiour doe seeme to speake indefinitly Iohn 13.16 of the Apostle and him that sendeth him yet it is euident that he meaneth himselfe who sent and the Apostles who were sent But admit saith the refuter that Epaphroditus were Bishop or Pastor of Philippi where abouts I will not striue how shall it be proued that Philippi was a Diocesan Church c. This is written as the most of the booke to bleare the eyes of the simple For I cannot thinke he which would vndertake this cause was so void of iudgement as the refuter here would shew himselfe to be if he wrote sincerely For I pray you what was the point which here I had in hand was it not to shew that the Bishops at the first in the Apostles times were called Apostles and doe I not proue it by this instance that Epaphroditus being the Bishop of the Philippians is therefore called their Apostle Admit it be so saith the refuter yet how shall it be proued that Philippi was a Diocesan Church and how weakely with that doth M. D. inferre that he was a Diocesan Bishop like to ours for the substance of his office All men see he deceiueth his reader with the like equiuocation in the word Bishop which in the Apostles times by his
be doubted but that each of these had Bishops to their successours euen in the Apostles times as before hath beene shewed and therefore the refuter should not make it so strange that Bishops were the successours of Timothie and Titus Serm. Sect. 8. pag. 75. Against this two things are obiected first that Timothie and Titus may seeme not to haue beene appointed BB. of Ephesus and Creet because they did not continue there but were remoued to other places c. to other in Creet pag. 78. The first obiection is thus framed by the Refuter Timothie and Titus did not continue in Ephesus and Creet but were remoued to other places Therefore Timothie and Titus were not ordayned Bishops of Ephesus and Creet I answere by distinction For if by continuing they vnderstand as the words seeme to import a perpetuall residence without remouing or trauelling thence vpon any occasion then I denie the consequence or proposition which is vnderstood For by no law either of God or man are Bishops or other Pastors so affixed to their cures but that vpon speciall and extraordinarie occasion they may either for their owne necessitie or for the greater or more publicke good of the Church trauaile or remoue to other places It is sufficient that they be ordinarily resident vpon their charge If by continuing be meant ordinarie residence then I denie the antecedent and doe contrariwise affirme that although vpon speciall and extraordinary occasions they were by the Apostle called to other places as his or the Churches necessity required yet these were the places of their ordinary residence And that I proue because they both liued and died there That they continued or had their ordinary abode there in their life time I proue by testimony of Scripture and other euidence For if Paul required Timothie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to continue or abide still in Ephesus and appointed Titus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to continue to redresse vvhat vvas vvanting in Creet then vvere they to continue or haue their ordinarie residence there But the antecedent is true in both the parts thereof Therefore the consequent The Refuter denieth the consequence to be of any force vnlesse first it could be proued that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth a perpetuall abiding in a place without departing from it all a mans life vvhich needeth not seeing ordinarie residence which is meant by that terme which is required in BB. ordinarie Pastors may be without such perpetuall abiding Secondly except 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be vnderstood also for the whole terme of life But it sufficeth that it signifieth to continue in redressing as the Geneua translation also readeth For thereby is meant as I said that hee was not left there for a brunt but that he should as things were defectiue or wanting 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 continue to redresse them and still keepe that Church in reparation For though the Church were new as the Refuter obiecteth to signifie that it should not need any reparation yet were the Bishops and Presbyters subiect to death and the places of them which dyed were to be supplied and the Church subiect to personall corruptions both for doctrine discipline manners which would need reformation And whereas their opinion who imagine that Timothie was required to stay at Ephesus but for a short time when Paul went into Macedony Act. 20. is contrary to that former testimony concerning Timothie I shew that in all the iourneyes of Paul into Macedony mentioned in the Acts Timothie did accompany him And therefore that this voyage of Paul was after his first being at Rome with which the Acts of the Apostles end not mentioning any of his trauels and other occurrents which afterwards happened for the space of nine or tenne yeares The Acts of which time cannot otherwise be knowne but by such of his Epistles as were written in that time and other monuments of antiquity The which passage though the Refuter hath passed by in silence I thought good to put the Reader in minde of that he may acknowledge many things to haue beene done by the Apostles which are registred in other records of anitquity though they be not mentioned in the history of the Acts of the Apostles which endeth vvith those things which happened aboue fourty yeares before the death of S. Iohn Now the Acts of the Apostles which were performed after S. Lukes history thereof were in part recorded by Hegesippus and Clemens and other auncient Authors which testifie that Paul ordayned Timothie B. of Ephesus and Titus of Creet and that he and other Apostles appointed other Bishops in other places Whose testimonies whosoeuer doe refuse to beleiue doe themselues deserue no credit To those allegations therefore out of Paul I added the credible testimony of diuers Authors viz. Dorotheus in synopsi Hieron siue Sophron. in Catalogo in Tito Isidorus de vita morte sanctorum Num. 87. 88. Vincent lib. 10. c. 38. Antonius ex Policrate part 1. tit 6. c. 28. Niceph. l. 10. c. 11. Who report that Timothie and Titus as they liued so also dyed the one at Ephesus the other in Creet The Refuter answereth he may well credit the report of these Authors and yet not grant that therefore they were Diocesan Bishops of those places Indeed if I had argued thus as the Refuter would haue the Reader thinke Timothie and Titus dyed the one at Ephesus the other in Creet Therefore they were BB. there it had beene a loose consequence But he wrangleth besides the pupose It was obiected that Timothie and Titus were not Bishops of those places because they did not continue there I proue that they held their ordinary residence there not onely because S. Paul required them both to continue there but other Authors also testified that they both liued and died there The Refuter answereth and would haue the Reader content himselfe with this answere that howsoeuer indeed it is true that they continued there yet hereof it followeth not that they were Diocesan Bishops of those places Yea but saith he it would be obserued that M. D. granteth the consequence to be good namely that they were not Bishops of Ephesus and Creet if they did not continue there but were remoued to other places Now that they were remoued himselfe confesseth c. If I had confessed that they were remoued and also that if they were remoued they were not Bishops Then I should haue granted both the antecedent of the Enthymeme which hee said before that I denyed and also the consequence But indeed I denyed the consequence in that sence which the Refuter conceiueth and yet granted that though they were sometimes remoued yet they kept ordinary residence the one at Ephesus the other in Creet And therefore their trauelling or remouing vpon extraordinary occasions doth not hinder their being BB. Doe you indeed grant that sometimes they were remoued marry that will I proue saith the
answere For it appeareth that neither the Apostles or Apostolicall men being Bishops were simply bound to vse the councell of the Presbyters but that the vse of them was voluntarie after the example of Moses as Ierome saith and the auncient Bishops of the Primitiue Church who vvere of the best disposition as Cyprian by name did follow their example resoluing to doe nothing of moment without their counsell and aduise seeking therein the good and peace of the Church And this custome was vsed by all godly Bishops vntill as I said the Presbyters aduise and assistance to themselues seeming troublesome and to the B. by reason of the frequent Synodes and Synodall constitutions needlesse grew out of vse whereupon Canons vvere made that their counsell and assistance should be required an had in greater matters which is not misliked but wished to be more vsed And so much may suffice to haue answered an obiection which the refuter doth not acknowledge I proceede therefore to the third which is as it vvere the shoote-anchor of the Disciplinarians which fayling their Discipline vvill suffer shipwracke Presbyters and Bishops were all one therefore Bishops are to know that they be greater then the Presbyters rather by the custome of the Church then by the truth of Diuine disposition To this obiection I returned two answeres the first that where Ierome saith Episcopus and Presbyter is all one it may be vndertooke of the names vvhich hee proueth by many testimonies to be confounded in the vvritings of the Apostles And in this sense it is true that whereas now Episcopus is more then Presbyter it is to be ascribed to the custome of the Church as before I haue noted out of Theodoret And in the same sense Augustine is to be vnderstood vvhen hee saith according to the names of honour in which the vse of the Church hath preuailed Episcopatus Bishopship is a name of greater honour then Presbyterium The refuter comming to examine this answere saith I denyed the Antecedent vvhen as indeed I granting the Antecedent in that sense vvhich I giue in the answere denyed the consequence That although the distinction of the names vvas not by diuine disposition but by the custome of the Church yet that hindreth not but the function may be of Apostolicall institution Seeing they vvhich at the first vvere ordayned by the Apostles to the Episcopal function though they vvere not called Bishops till they were chosen out of the Presbyters yet vvere called sometimes the Apostles sometimes the Angels of the churches So that when the names were confounded the offices were not But the refuter censureth this distinction as an idle conceipt and shift hauing no colour of excuse for it As though it needed excuse vvhen I brought iust defence of it vvhich hee is not able to answere For how shall Ieromes minde be knowne in that assertion that Episcopus and Presbyter was all one but by the proofes vvhich he bringeth for it but all his proofes are that the names vvere confounded in the vvritings of the Apostles and that the same men were called Presbiteri Episcopi and that was all that Ierome could truely inferre out of those places For if hee would haue concluded out of them that the offices vvere confounded his consequences would be very weake The second defence of my answere vvas this that Ierome is to be vnderstood eyther of the names or of the offices But not of the offices therefore of the names If you shall vnderstand Ierome as affirming that the offices were confounded and denying that the office and superioritie of Bishops was of Diuine disposition in that sense that Apostolicall ordinances may be said to be of Diuine Institution you shall make Ierome not onely to striue against the streame of all Antiquitie but also to be contrarie to himselfe but this latter is absurd so is the former To the former reason the refuter answereth not but bringeth a reason or two such as they be to ouerthrow my distinctions seeking as we say clauum clauo pellere Can any man be so sotttish saith he as to imagine that the question betwixt Ierome and those Deacons was about names not offices or would Ierome reason so simply as to proue the dignitie of the Presbyters aboue Deacons because the name of Presbyter and Episcopus was all one it were absurd to spend more time in answering so vnreasonable a distinction You see how bragge our refuter is when hee seemeth to haue gotten neuer so little aduantage To his former question I answere that although the question vvas concerning the office of Presbyters and Deacons vvhether were superiour yet Ierome might and indeede did proue the Presbyters to be superiour because as the Apostles did call themselues Presbyters so Presbyters vvere called Bishops Yea but saith he in the second question Ierome would not reason so simply Whereto I answere that not onely learned men but the holy Ghost also in the Scriptures doth reason to that purpose prouing their dignitie to be greater vvho haue obtained a greater name For as the Philosophers say names are the resemblances and imitations of the things Secondly hee obiecteth the authoritie of diuerse new and I confesse worthy Diuines who thinke that Ierome maketh a Bishop and a Presbyter all one not in name onely but in office also Which is a kinde of arguing frequent with this refuter but seldome or neuer vsed by any writer of worth Against his authorities therefore that Ierome was of that iudgement I feare not to oppose the reasons which I produced and namely the second But saith hee we neede not stand in feare of that glittering flourish whereby wee are charged to make Ierome striue against the streame of all Antiquitie and to be contrarie to himselfe if eyther hee confound the functions or deny it to be an Apostolicall ordinance that Bishops should be set ouer the Presbyters What one testimonie of Antiquitie within the first two hundred yeares eyther hath beene or can be alledged to that purpose of as little force are the allegations which M. D. saith hee hath cited out of Ieromes writings In both which answeres the refuter sheweth himselfe to be very impudent For first that the office or degree of Bishop and Presbyter are distinct haue I not brought forth most plaine and plentiful proofes out of Ignatius Tertullian Origen Cyprian and other auncient writers that Bishops were ordayned by the Apostles haue I not alledged most pregnant testimonies out of Ignatius Irenaeus Tertullian Hegesippus and Clemens cited by Eusebius and can it seeme doubtfull to any that shall reade vvhat is alledged by mee and the refuter in this controuersie which way the streame of Antiquitie runneth And as for Ierome vvhat more plaine testimonies can be desired then those vvhich I brought to proue that in his iudgement Bishops vvere ordayned by the Apostles And that Ierome neuer thought that the office of Bishop and Presbyter was confounded it
question whether the Church were gouerned by Bishops or such Presbyteries it is granted on both sides and agreed vpon betwixt vs that it was gouerned either by the one or by the other and that one and but one of these assertions is true For if both parts of the question or disiunction were true it were but a foolish question as the Phylosopher saith And that this is the question betweene vs the refuter hath truely witnessed in respect of the parts of the disiunction though in the latter he falsifieth my assertion where he saith the question betweene vs is whether the Churches should be gouerned by Pastors and Elders or by Diocesan Bishops The question indeed de facto for the time past is whether the primitiue Church were gouerned by Diocesan BB. or such Presbyteries as they speake of The question de iure respecting also the time present and to come is whether the Church may or should be gouerned by Bishops as we say or must be gouerned by their Presbyteries as they affirme This therefore being the question whether by our Bishops or their Presbyteries and this question implying a necessarie disiunction who seeth not that the disproofe of their Presbyteries is a direct proofe for our Bishops The disiunctiue argumentation standeth thus Either the primitiue Church was gouerned by Diocesan Bishops or by such Presbyteries as they stand for But not by such Presbyteries as they stand for Therefore by Diocesan Bishops The proposition is implyed in the very question betweene vs and the disiunction is therein by both parties presupposed as necessarie The assumption is that first point of the fiue which now we haue in hand The conclusion determineth the assertion which in the former part of the Sermon was propounded to be proued viz. that the primitiue Church was gouerned by Diocesan Bishops This passage therefore concerning Lay-Elders will I hope be acknowledged not to be impertinent Now that the Church was not gouerned by such Presbyteries as they speake of I proued in this passage Because howsoeuer with great vehemencie the Presbyterian discipline by lay or only gouerning Elders hath beene by them vrged and obtruded vpon vs yet they are not able to proue that euer there were any Presbyters which were not Ministers For the question which now we haue in hand being whether there were any such Presbyters in the primitiue Church as were not Ministers forasmuch as the Presbyterians are the opponents and plaintiffes not onely holding the affirmatiue that there were such but vehemently vrging that still there ought to be such we contrariwise the respondents and defendants holding the negatiue to wit that neither there were such nor now need to be the Reader therefore is to vnderstand that this burden of prouing lieth vpon them which hold and vrge the affirmatiue that there were and still ought to be Lay-Elders and that in vs it is a sufficient proofe of the negatiue if we can maintaine that they are not able to proue the affirmatiue And whereas all their proofes may be reduced to two heads for either they be such testimonies where the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or Presbyter is named or where at the least the function it selfe is as they suppose meant to these two heads therefore I oppose two contrarie assertions The one that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or Presbyter doth alwayes signifie a Minister the other that there is no one pregnant testimonie mentioning or meaning the lay or onely gouerning Elder The former of them being affirmatiue I doe briefly confirme by three reasons the latter being such a negatiue as cannot otherwise be proued for the induction of the particulars were infinite I doe therefore maintaine it against the principall instances of the aduersaries And this is the summe of this passage Now I come to his cauils with the particulars The two assertions which I did euen now mention opposed to the two heads of their proofes the refuter casteth into one Syllogisme and hauing so done wrangleth both with the substance of each proposition and also with the manner of setting them downe The Syllogisme is this If in the writings of the Apostles the ancient fathers and councils the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or Presbyter noting an Ecclesiasticall person doth euermore signifie a Minister or Priest and there cannot any one pregnant testimonie be alledged out of the scriptures councils or fathers mentioning or meaning any Lay-annuall-onely-gouerning-Presbyters then were there no other Presbyters in the primitiue Church but Ministers but the antecedent is true therefore the consequent In the antecedent of the proposition he noteth two parts the former whereof he reiecteth as superfluous because the latter is as firme and full without it And yet hauing reiected the former he saith the consequence is infirme and weake But if the former be therefore superfluous because the latter is firme and full without it by this reason it shall not be lawfull for a man to bring two arguments for one thing the one concluding the question without the other Yea but these two are ioyned in one proposition and therefore either must afford necessarie helpe to the other or the one is superfluous Blame him then that ioyned them and disdaine thâ—t sophisticall shifts of the refuter deuised to make himselfe worke Yea but if they be not ioyned the former wil be weake and of no strength for it will not suffice that I say the word Presbyter doth euermore signifie a Minister vnlesse I added onely For though it alway signifie a Minister yet it may also signifie him that is no Minister But in mine vnderstanding if it alwaies signifie a Minister it neuer signifieth him that is not a Minister Neither will it serue their turne that they make Presbyter the genus of teaching and gouerning-Elders vnlesse they can shew that as alwaies it signifieth a Minister so in some place an onely-gouerning Elder also and they must remember that in this cause of Elders they are the opponents and therefore they must proue that the places which they alledge for their Lay-presbyters not onely may but of necessitie must be vnderstood of them or else in vaine doe they vrge and obtrude them vpon vs. And surely we must needs esteeme it a very partiall genus and such as yet was neuer heard of that is alwaies predicated of the one species and neuer of the other If animal did alwaies signifie a man and were neuer predicated of any other thing but man we should hardly thinke it were the genus but the selfe same species and conuertible with it as indeed Presbyter is with Minister and therefore not the genus of it and that I proued when I said it alwaies signifieth a Minister because in english it is priest and in the scriptures is confounded with Episcopus and noteth such a person as must be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 able to preach But let him adde onely if that would please him
though so much be signified without it No it will not serue the turne for though Presbyter doe alwaies and onely signifie a Minister and neuer signifie an onely gouerning Elder yet there might bee gouerning Elders who were signified by other names Why but then there were no Presbyters but Ministers which was the point to be proued And what then becommeth which is the chiefe scope of this place of all those testimonies wherein the word Presbyter is mentioned which T. C. and others doe alledge supposing the most of the places in the scriptures councils and fathers where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or Presbyter is mentioned to be so many proofes of your gouerning Elders call you this a weake proofe which doth not onely at once bereaue you of all those testimonies where Presbyter is mentioned and wherein your chiefe strength did lie but also proue that there were no Presbyters but Ministers This consequence therefore was not to be denied And much lesse the other For if there cannot be produced so much as any one pregnant testimonie out of the scriptures councils or fathers mentioning or meaning any lay annuall onely-gouerning Elders with what proofs will they vrge them or with what conscience can they obtrude them as the ordinance of Christ An argument taken from the scriptures alone negatiuè was wont to be a sufficient disproofe of any pretended ordinance of Christ and shall not an argument holde negatiuely from Scriptures Fathers Councels and all Notwithstanding the consequence must needs be infirme and weake for although there be no proofe of any Lay-annuall-onely gouerning elders yet may there be indeed is for all that proofe sufficient for such only gouerning Presbyters as are ecclesiâ—sticall and to be perpetuall Wherefore which way soeuer the proposition lye the consequence therof I flatly deny saith our ryming refuter But heere I intreat the Reader to trie the spirit of this Sophister For if himselfe acknowledge that my meaning is simply to denie the onely-gouerning Elders then can hee not be excused from this imputation of setting himselfe to wrangle against conscience But so much hee acknowledgeth when hee commeth to the assumption for otherwise he could not haue wrangled therewith M. D. meaing saith he is simply to denie all kinde onely-gouerning Elders therefore I denie the assumption His meaning was not to denie all but annuall and Lay-Elders therefore I flatly denie the consequence Thus you see how he is carried with a spirit of contradiction not caring to gaine say himselfe so hee may seeme to contradict mee But so farre was the consequence from being to be denyed because I mention Lay and annuall that rather it was to be graunted These words being added ad maiorem cautelam and distinctly propounded to make the consequence so much the stronger and to signifie that I spake of all Elders whatsoeuer that are not Ministers call them as you will whether Lay or annuall or onely gouerning Elders And here againe let the Reader obserue that the new sect of Disciplinarians will not haue such Elders as lately were in Scotland and still are at Geneua and the Low Countreys No they scorne such those be Lay annuall as you haue heard but these may not be so Therfore let the elder sort of Disciplinarians be accounted wise who though they were faine to yeeld that the greater part of their presbyteries should be of the Laitie yet they did foresee that the Ministers would beare the sway as indeed they ought because they were perpetuall the others annuall or but for a short time whereas these men making the Lay-Elders perpetuall and referring matters to be ruled by pluralitie of voyces absurdly subiect the Ministers to bee ruled and ouer-ruled by them who in the most Countrey-parishes are more fitte to holde the plough then to sit at the sterne of the Church And so desperate or franticke whether are they nowe growne that although they make their parish-Bishop the supreme officer in the visible Church and doe holde that euery parish hath a sufficient and independent authoritie immediately deriued from Christ for the gouernment of it selfe in all causes Ecclesiasticall Notwithstanding offer to submitte their Bishop and his Consistorie yea their whole visible Church with their whole managing of causes Ecclesiasticall to the ouersight and superintendencie of each Iustice of peace Hauing thus wrangled with the proposition hee setteth himselfe also against the assumption containing the two aforesaide Assertions The former whereof viz that the word Presbyter noting an Ecclesiasticall person in the Church of Christ euermore in the Scriptures Councells and Fathers signifieth a Minister hee denyeth For if the word onely bee added it is vtterly false For I shall make it euident saith hee that the worde Presbyter doth sometimes signifie one that is not a Minister And if it bee left out it will be false neuerthelesse For it shall appeare that sometimes the word is vsed for an Ecclesiasticall person that is no Minister So that by his owne confession all is one whether the word onely bee inserted or omitted the contradictorie being one and the same that sometimes it signifieth one that is not a Minister But though hee delay the Reader for his owne proofes which I dare assure him will not satisfie his iudicious expectation yet seeing he setteth himselfe to catch and snatch at euery word he should not haue passed by those argumeÌ„ts â—hereby I proued my Assertion and I am perswaded would not if silence had not bene his best answere For a man of his Acumen might easily out of those fewe words haue raised three syllogismes which he could not so easily answere But the labour which hee thought best to spare I will vndertake for him For 1. If the word Priest freed as it is in our Church from the popish abuse and conceiued without all relation to reall sacrifices be the proper English of presbyter as it noteth an Ecclesiasticall person then presbyter signifieth a Minister onely and as well might question bee made whether there were any Lay-priests as Lay-presbyters but the former is true therefore the latter 2. That word which in the Scriptures is confounded with Episcopus or Bishop doth signifie a Minister onely But Presbyter by their owne confession is confounded with Episcopus or Bishop Therefore presbyter doth signifie a Minister onely 3. That word which being in the Scriptures confounded with Bishop doth also note such a person as by the Apostles rule must be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 able to preach doth signifie a Minister of the word onely for in none but Ministers is that propertie required But Presbyter is such a word as beeing in the Scriptures confounded with Bishop doth also note a person who must by the Apostles rule be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or able to preach Therefore the word Presbyter doth signifie a Minister onely The latter part of his assumption saith he in case he vrge the words Lay and annuall
and speciall because the generall dutie which is to gouerne well agreeth to the Lay-Elders as wel as to Ministers To omit that which hath beene said of his conclusion not concluding as he ought Lay-Elders if he will vrge them out of this place but prouing onely that they are not excluded which is but a poore proofe prouing nothing so well as that the cause of the Lay-Elders is come to a low ebbe And yet for this all his proofe is that the generall dutie agreeth to them which indeed is false for the generall dutie meant by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 besides godly life and such attendance of the flocke as might be common to lay Presbyters implyeth the fulfilling of their ministerie their going before the flocke in the duties of Gods seruice their feeding of them with the word and Sacraments Neither can hee be said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 according to the Apostles meaning in this place that doth not which a Lay-Elder may not doe attend and superintend his flocke in these respects This prosillogisme of his proposition which is his onely proofe hee seeth and acknowledgeth to be before denied by me holding that as well the generall as speciall dutie as they are here meant be peculiar to Ministers and therefore not agreeing to their Elders making me thus to say yes saith hee but for all that they be indeed two duties of the Ministers onely His proofe therefore was nothing else but a meere begging of the question And when he should haue proued that in the former part of the sentence Let the Elders that gouerne well the Lay-Elders are comprised or else haue ceassed to vrge them faire and mannerly he slippeth his necke out of the collar putting me to disproue it and telling me that otherwise I should offend wherein as respondents doe not vse to offend so himselfe being indeed the opponent in this place is extremely faultie that is to say in begging the question Hauing therefore struggled to no purpose with my exposition of this text in the next place he setteth himselfe hauing no reasons to proue his owne interpretation to striue though with the like successe against those reasons wherewith my exposition is fortified Now in my exposition two things are specially to be noted as I haue said first that by Presbyters I vnderstand Ministers onely The second that by the words which are translated gouerning or ruling well I vnderstand the whole dutie of the ministerie in generall and not onely gouerning in that sence as it may be common to the supposed Lay-Elder The first is the principall and alreadie proued though the refuter had rather seeme not to haue seene the reasons which he did not see how to answere then goe about either to confute them or to bring any testimonie where Presbyter doth signifie a Lay-Elder But as he would not see the former reasons so either he doth not or will not see the force of the latter For wheras I proue that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth signifie the generall performance of the whole dutie of the Ministers being as much in effect as if the Apostle had said thus Those Ministers which fulfill their office as Ierome and Primâ—sius expound those words that goe out and in before their people as becommeth them according to the phrase of the scriptures thâ—â—e that demeane themselues well as the Syriach paraphrast doth interpret the words as well in respect of their priuate conuersation as of their publike administration whereas I say I proue all this to disproue their inferrence for Lay-Elders out of this place he as though he saw no force of argument in all this feareth not to confesse all and yet will needs maintaine that inference because forsooth al this may be verified of Lay-Elders c. But say I when you vrge your Elders as from this place your inference is not that what is said of Presbyters gouerning well may be vnderstood of Lay-Elders but must be vnderstood of them or else you speake to no purpose Now although there be some shew of an inference if by gouerning well were meant onely so much as might be common to Lay-Elders yet if you vnderstand these words in the generall sense you shall see not so much as a shew of a good consequence nor any reason to moue a man to make such an inference which I did verily thinke that all men of vnderstanding would readily haue conceiued and yet my lot is to light vpon such an aduersary as either doth not or will not see it vnles it be beaten into him Goe too then Is not this your inference from this text that because the Apostle requireth double honour to be giuen to such Elders as gouerne well though especially to those which labour in the word that therfore besides those which labour in the word there are certaine onely-gouerning Elders Vnderstand therefore those former words in the general sense which I giue and your inference will be both senelesse and false Senelesse thus the Presbyters that fulfill their office or that demeane themselues well in their place are worthy of double honour especially those that labour in the word therefore besides those which labour in the word there are certain onely gouerning Elders for of this inference there is no sence vnlesse it be supposed that none can fulfill their office or demeane themselues well but your Lay-Elders If therefore you will ground them vpon this place according to the generall sence which you seeme to allow call them no more the onely-gouerning Elders but the onely good or well demeaned Presbyters False because the words being generally vnderstood of the whole dutie of the ministerie can be vnderstood of none but Ministers the generall which includeth the speciall being peculiar to the Minister as well as the speciall Thus therefore I reason Those words which import the performance of the whole dutie of the ministerie cannot be vnderstood of Lay-Elders but of Ministers onely The words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1. Tim. 5.17 translated which gouerne well import the performance of the whole dutie of the ministerie in generall Therefore the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1. Tim. 5.17 translateâ— which gouerne well cannot be vnderstood of Lay-Elders but of Ministers onely The proposition you cannot be so absurd as to denie vnlesse you will attribute the performance of the whole office of the ministerie in generall to your onely-gouerning-Elders The assumption you freely confesse and all the proofs 〈◊〉 and yet with great â—â—oath of idle and addle words you 〈◊〉 maintaine the contradictorie to the conclusion 〈…〉 nor â—eâ—â—â—ng any force at all in my proofe which yoâ— valiantly ouerthrow by denying the conclusion So that I must conclude that you extremely want either a sound iudgement or a good conscience Besides the former proofe I produce for the confirmation of my exposition the speech of the same Apostle to the same Presbyters of Ephesus Act. 20.28 to paralel this And whereas
Ministers and Lay-Elders then it doth necessarily follow that as the Ministers haue the care and ouersight of doctrine and religion so the Lay-Elders haue the ouersight of manners and care of auoiding offences But the Antecedent is true 1. Tim. 5.17 Therefore the consequent To the assumption of the former Syllogisme I answere that Lay-Elders are no where 's said in the Scriptures to be Presbyters or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to gouerne or ouersee but all those places which be alleadged to this purpose are to bee vnderstood of Ministers onely Besides the same Author hath confessed that Lay Elders are not Byshops neither will he say that they be Pastors But the places which he quoteth are to be vnderstood of Bishops Pastors Of Act. 20.28 1. Pet. 5. I haue already spoken as also of 1. Thess. 5.12 Why Heb. 13.17 should be applpyed to Lay-Elders there is no reason vnlesse whatsoeuer is spoken of Spirituall gouernors is to be vnderstood of them The Writers both olde and new expound it of Bishops and Pastors The assumption also of the second syllogisme is vntrue neither hath it any thing to support it but their owne exposition of 1. Tim. 5.17 which I haue proued to be false Neither is that true which is presupposed in both syllogismes that there must be two sorts of Elders answerable to the two parts of ouersight For both the parts of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or ouersight belong to those which be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ouerseers that is Bishops and Pastors whose dutie is both to teach and to gouerne Their third Argument is taken from the practise of the primitiue Church next succeeding the Apostles Which of all their Arguments is most friuolous there being not anie testimonie of any writer or example of any Church to bee alledged that euer there was such an office in the Church But howsoeuer these duties to be performed by the Elders seuerally might be borne with so they were not obtruded as the ordinances of Christ yet the ioynt office of their Lay presbyteryes is intollerable For what reason can they alledge for their intruding into the sacred office of Bishops and Pastors vsurping the keyes of the kingdome of heauen which our Sauiour Christ committed to none but to the Apostles and their successors That Lay-men should haue authoritie and that by the ordinance of Christ to ordaine Ministers by imposition of hands to remit or retaine sinnes to excommunicate the obstinate or to reconcile the penitent is an opinion too absurde to be confuted Thus therefore I reason according to their owne principles No office in the Church is lawfull as themselues say which hath not expresse warrant in the scriptures which is all one as if they had said All lawfull offices in the church haue expresse warrant in Gods word The office of the Lay-Elders seuerally and of their Elderships yearely hath not expresse warrant in Gods word Therfore it is vnlawfull To their office wee will ioyne the consideration of their qualities for surely if the holy Ghost had prescribed in the scriptures an office of such importance it is to bee thought that he would also haue described what manner of men were to be chosen to it and how qualified for the performance of an office of so high a nature And although he omitted their qualities in other places yet mee thinks if it be a function that is in dignitie vnder the Minister but aboue the Deacon the Apostle could not haue forgotten them in 1. Tim. 3 where he describeth the qualities not only of Bishops and Ministers which be aboue them but of the Deacons also which are beneath them directing Timo 〈◊〉 and in him all Bishops what manner of persons to orâ—aâ—â— Ministers or Deacons Forgotten say they why are they not plainly expressed in that place Yes no doubt for that is agreed vpon among vs For some will needs comprise them vnder the Bishop or Minister and feare not to â—ay that they also must be suâ— modo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is able 〈◊〉 preach after their fashion Others acknowledge that they are neuer comprehended vnder the name Bishop and that it is necessarily required of Ministers alone to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 able to preach especially in that sense that the Apostle meaneth as appeareth by comparing that place with Tit 1.9 yet resolued to finde a roome for them in that place and not to suffer them to be excluded are faine to sâ—rowâ—e them vnder the name of Deacons though the name of Deacon neither in scriptures nor Fathers was euer attributed to them How they will compound these contrarieties I know not For if they be comprised vnder the name Bishop then are they not to be shrowded vnder Deacons and if they be contained vnder Deacons then are they not comprised vnder Bishops It shall 〈◊〉 me to alledge that forsomuch as the Eldership is in their conceit a different office both from the Minister and Deacon that it is comprehended in neither For who cannot conceiue this reason None but Bishops Ministers and Deacons are described in that place Bishops and Ministers in the former description and Deacons in the latter But Lay-elders are neither Bishops or Ministers nor Deacons but an imagined office distinct from both Therefore they are not described in that place The refuâ—â—â— hath solemnely proclaimed before and required all men to take notice of it that their Elders ought to be men religious of great grauitie and pietie and of good yeares also if it may be as the name importeth called with due examination chosen with consent of the congregation ouer which they are set with prayer and imposition of hands put a part to that Ecclesiasticall office All which I will not denie to haue beene politickely deuised so it may be acknowledged an humane deuise and not a diuine ordinance But why are not the margents filled with scriptures for the proofe of these things The truth is there is not one testimonie of scripture to be alledged prescribing the office or describing the qualities of Lay-Elders But perhaps there may be mention sufficient of them in the scriptures to warrant their calling though neither their office nor their qualities be described in the word of God Nor that neither as shall appeare when I come to answere the refuters allegations for them In the meane time I will not doubt to renew my former challenge if they can produce any one pregnant testimonie out of the scriptures whereby it may necessarily be concluded that either there were at any time or ought to be at all times in the Church of Christ such Elders and Elderships as they speake of that then I will yeeld to them in the whole controuersie betwixt vs. But vntill such proofe be produced for them which will neuer be they shall giue me leaue to esteeme their doctrine of Lay-Elders to be as it is a meere fiction how vehemently soeuer it be vrged and obtruded
refuter obiecteth that our BB haue not the like assistance of the Deane and chapter that the ancient BB had of their Presbyteries For Ambrose complaineth that euen in his time their counsell was neglected And yet in these times as the Bishop may vse their aduise if he please so in some cases their assistance is necessarily required the acts of the Bishop being void without their consent Besides sede vacante in the vacancy of the See the custodie of the Bishopricke Episcopall rights as also the election of the new Bishop is after a sort referred to them And as in times past so now the placing and displacing of the Presbyters of the citie whom we call Prebendaries appertaineth to the BB a few Churches onely among vs excepted And to conclude as Deanes and Chapters with vs are in a maner peculiar to Cathedrall Churches the seats of Bishops some collegiate Churches excepted so were the Presbyteries in the primitiue Church Insomuch that our new sect of disciplinarians might as well say there was in old time now should be a Deane chapter as a Presbyterie in euery parish If therefore they will sue for reformation according to the precedent of the primitiue Churches let them seeke and sue that the Bishops may vse the counsell and assistance of the Presbyterie of the citie which we call the Deane and Chapter and they may hope to preuaile if none of the reasons why their assistance is forborne be sufficient which now come to be examined Serm. Sect. 8. pag. 16. But howsoeuer Ambrose knew not what to say of this matter otherwise then by coniecture c to the end of the first point pag. 17. These reasons I added by way of surplusage or aduantage to giue satisfaction if it might be But nothing will satisfie them who set themselues to cauill for whereas I said I doubt not but the true causes c the refuter depraueth my speech as if the word I had beene vttered with an immodest Emphasis when as I meant no more by that speech then when we say proculdubio or dubium non est which kind of speech my aduersarie me thinkes should not so greatly mislike sithens their Lay-Elders which haue beene vrged with such heat haue no better warrant then dubium non est satis opinor constat probabile est as you shall heare when we come to their proofes They may say confidently there were Lay-Elders in the time of the Apostles yea from the time of Moses vntill Christ and that after the example of the Iewes who indeed neuer had such Presbyteries they are to be erected in euery parish and yet haue no better warrant for these things then their owne coniectures They may take vpon them to auow without reason that to haue beene done in the Apostles times whereunto neither scripture nor Father giueth testimonie and in me it is great immodestie to affirme that which but one of the Fathers seemed to doubt of though I alleage sufficient reason of my affirmation For in the first three hundred yeares after Christ when Christians neither had frequent Synodes to determine doubts nor Synodall constitutions to direct the Bishops nor the authoritie of the Christian Magistrate to rectifie what was amisse in the gouernement of the Church there was great necessitie that the Bishop should vse the aduise and counsell of other wise and learned men otherwise his will would haue seemed to stand for a law and his gouernement would haue beene subiect to ouersight in himselfe to remedilesse wrong towards the clergie and people and to the obloquy and scandall of all But when as prouinciall Synodes were frequently assembled to determine doubts to right the causes of them that were wronged to prescribe so many Caâ—ons and constitutions as to the BB assembling in Councell seemed sufficient for their direction wheÌ„ the authoritie of the christian Magistrate was helpefull to the Church then we may easily conceiue that as the Councell and assistance of the Presbyterie was not so needfull so both to the Presbyters desiring their ease and Scholasticall quietnesse and also to the Bishops desiring to rule alone it would seeme needlesse which reason I am well content it shall be put into the equall balance of the Readers iudgement against the cauills of the refuter wherewith he hath blotted more then a whole leafe It happened to the Presbyteries as after it did to the prouinciall Synodes For when by experience it was fouÌ„d to be very troublesome chargeable to the BB hurtfull to their churches tedious to suiters by reason of multitude of causes referred to Synodal audience that al the BB in euery couÌ„try should twice euery yeare for a long time be absent from their churches to be present at Synodes it was decreed both by the Emperours and BB that those causes wherewith prouinciall Synodes had vsually bene troubled should be referred to the audience and decisioÌ„ of the Archbishop or Metropolitan Euen so when it was found troublesome and tedious to the Presbyters and hurtfull to the Church that their time which might better be spent in studie of Diuinitie to furnish them for the publike Ministery should be taken vp in hearing brabbles and quarrels and also their assistance seemed not needfull to the Bishops for the causes aforesaid it is not to be maruelled that their assistance grew out of vse For whereas the refuter obiecteth and is the onely thing worth the mentioning which he obiecteth that the Presbyteries continued in Ambroses time and long after I answere that they continue to this day But as their assistance now in matters of gouernement is not much vsed so before Ambrose his time it began to be neglected And thus much concerning the testimonie of Ambrose which hauing cleared as well as that 1. Tim. 5.17 being the onely places of moment which vse to be produced in this cause I might safely conclude from all the premisses that therfore there were no Lay-Elders in the primitiue Church From whence besides the maine conclusion that therefore the primitiue Church was gouerned by Diocesan Bishops the two particular assertions concluding against our new sect of disciplinarians will necessarily follow The first that therefore there were no parishionall Presbyteries the second that therefore parish Bishops or pastors were subiect to the Diocesan Bishops Against the former he obiecteth a speech of D. Bilson affirming that euery Church in the Apostles times had many Prophets Pastors and Teachers which as the refuter saith might make a Presbyterie But the Churches D. Bilson speaketh of were not in seuerall parishes but as he saith in populous cities such as that of Ephesus Act. 20 and those prouided not for any one parish but for the whole citie and countrey adioyning that is to say the Diocesse For when my aduersarie shall produce any one pregnant testimonie that in such congregations as we call parishes there was a Presbyterie of Ministers I will also grant
that there were no other but parish Bishops In the meane time let the Reader hold this for a certaine and vndeniable truth that there were no Presbyteries of Ministers but onely in cities and Cathedrall Churches but hereof I shall haue occasion to speake in the second booke As touching the second conclusion it followeth thus the parish pastor had either a Presbyterie to assist him or he was subiect to superiors as namely the Diocesan and prouinciall Bishops to ouerrule him or else he ruled like a Pope for a fourth thing cannot be named before there were Christian Magistrates But it is absurd to imagine that in the primitiue Church they had an absolute popeling who neither had assistants nor superiors for that were to ascribe not onely supreme but also sole power to them and it is as false that in seuerall parishes there was a Presbyterie to assist him therefore it remaineth that the parish Bishops were subiect to the authoritie of the Diocesan and prouinciall Bishops To the proposition he answereth two wâ—ies first by retortion that what I say of the parish Bishop his ruling as a Pope may with more probabilitie be spoken of a Diocesan Bishop which I haue answered before For this is the second place where he laboureth out of my wordâ— to proue our Diocesan Bishops to be popes vsing this insultation in the margent Sic tu beas amiâ—os But though their parish Bishops whom they make the supreme Ecclesiasticall officers would be absolute popelings if presbyteries were not adioyned to them because they should haue not onely Supreame but also sole authoritie yet it followeth not that our Bishops to whom neither supreme nor sole authoritie belongeth should he esteemed such Secondly he denieth the disfunction alleaging that a fourth thing might be added concerning the chiefe authoritie of the people Which if it be added in the proposition is with the rest to be denied in the assumption For this brownisticall or rather Anabaptisticall conceit for some of the Brownists disclaime it that the Bishops in the primitiue Church were subiected to the people as if the state of the Church had beene Democraticall or popular is a dotage that was neuer dreamed of till of late and therefore as it is most confidently to be denied so it needed not to be inserted in the proposition CHAP. IX Answering the testimonies which by the refuter are alleaged to proue Lay-Elders BVt now had I need to call for armour of defence For hitherto saith the refuter we haue warded the blowes that M. D. gaue to beat downe the Lay-presbyterie now let vs shew that we also can strike if need be The Reader that hath found the refuter so strict in exacting Syllogismes of me euen when I performe the part of an answerer cannot but expect most formall and accurate Syllogismes at his hands But he shall finde that to be true which I foretold him not long since that this great Champion not daring to vrge his testimonies or to reduce his proofes into Syllogismes according to the poore pollicie of them all holdeth out certaine testimonies as it were Pallas shield thinking with the bare quotation of them though he cite them not to put vs to silence And to this purpose like a notorious Mountebanke setting himselfe to delude the simple he commendeth his witnesses euen Christ himselfe his Apostles and Euangelists with swelling titles when their testimonies themselues are not so much as cited as though he thought it more needfull to winne credit to his witnesses then to proue â—hat they testifie that for which he would seeme to alleage them But you shall heare Pyrgopolinices himselfe For the scriptures we haue among others these mightie ones to wage battell for vs. First the great Emperour of the Christian armie our Sauiour Christ himselfe Mat. 18.17 Next a great worthy Luke the Euangelist Act. 14.23 Adde to these Iames the Apostle one of the Pillars of the Church Iam. 5.14 and that famous Generall of the gentiles the Apostle Paul Rom. 12 8.1 Cor. 12.28 These are most worthy witnesses indeed and without exception If any one of these giue testimonie to your Lay-Elders we will most willingly yeeld But I pray you let vs heare their words It shall not need if you will not belieue vs that they giue testi-monie to Lay-Elders yet belieue other diuines who say they doe Are they witnesses what they said only or what by the holy Ghost is committed to writing If the latter why be not their owne testimonies produced but other witnesses must be deposed that they said so when it appeareth vpon most authenticall record whether they said so or not Let vs therefore heare the words themselues The first is Matt. 18.17 Where our Sauiour Christ saith dic Ecclesiae tell the Church or assembly What then therefore there ought to be Lay-Elders in euery congregation See you not by this time what a striker this is first there may be question whether Ecclesia signifie the whole congregation of the people or an assembly of iudges or gouernours if the former sense be followed there is no shew for Lay-Elders If the latter which is the more likely question againe may be made whether Christ speake of the Synedrion of the Iewes as Caluin and some others suppose or of Christian gouernours if of the Synedrion which was a ciuill senate and indeed the high counsell of estate in the policie of the Iewes what doth that make for Ecclesiasticall Elders in the Church of Christ and that in euery parish If of christian gouernours as the Fathers expound it what sense is there to vnderstand the words of Lay-Elders vnlesse it can otherwise be proued either that Christ had alreadie ordained them or that afterwards they were in vse in the Church of Christ. But the former is absurd and for the latter they haue not so much as a faire shew being disarmed of the two places which I haue vindicated out of their hands viz 1. Tim. 5.17 and Ambrose in 1. Tim. 5.1 Nay further I adde that if it could be proued as it neuer will that euer there were Lay-Elders in the Church before this our age yet they should but argue from the Genus to the Species affirmatiuely tell the gouernours ergo Lay-Elders wherefore this is a very seely argument Yea but other diuines say that Christ spake of Lay-Elders What others say it is not greatly materiall in this kind so long as we plainely see there is no necessitie nor probabilitie so to vnderstand him But who are they that say so Chrysostome Theophylact Erasmus Caluin Beza Piscator vpon the place it selfe c. For the three first because they are no parties I can be content to examine their testimonies All that Chrysostome saith of those words is this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 tell the Church that is Prelates and gouernours and on those words whatsoeuer you shall bind on earth c nec dicit saith he Ecclesiae presuli neither did he
were not appointed to parishes but to dioceses From whence the principall question of this part is thus to be inferred The Presbyteries ordained by the Apostles were appointed not to parishes but Dioceses therefore the churches indued with power of ecclesiasticall gouernement were not parishes but dioceses This consequeÌ„ce the refuter graÌ„teth in graÌ„ting the connexiue propositioÌ„ of the syllogisme which he frameth p. 58. l. 1. If he did not it might easily be confirmed by adding the assumption viz. to visible Churches indued with power of ecclesiasticall gouernement the Presbyters ordained by the Apostles were appointed The antecedeÌ„t which is also the propositioÌ„ of the syllogism if the assumption bee added I proue by 2. arguments The first concluding thus They who were appointed to whole cities and countreys to labor so far as they were able the conuersion of al that belonged to God were appointed to dioceses and not to parishes This propositioÌ„ I omitted also as taking it for granted As for his cauils against his owne proposition which he framed for the nonce to cauill withall they are not worth the refuting For besides that he absurdly cauilleth with me as thogh I had said that al in the city country were in S. Iâ—bus time conuerted he alleadgeth that there is no necessity that they which were conuerted should be of the same church with theÌ„ who did conuert them As for example they of Ceuchrea receiued the gospel from Corinth and yet were a distinct Church For it is called the church of Câ—nchrea RoÌ„ 16. 1. But I spake of them which did accidentally conuert others but of such as by whose meanes the conuersion of the city and country was originally intended And I say that they whose ministery was intended for the conuersion of the city and countrey to their care or charge both for the first conuerting of theÌ„ gouernment of theÌ„ being conuerted the city country beloÌ„ged As for Cenchreae though it be called a church as euery company of christians may so be termed yet it was not such a church as they speak of indued with power of ecclesiastical gouernement but subiect to the iurisdiction of the Church of Corinth Now followeth the assumption But the Presbyteries ordained by the Apostles were appointed for whole cities countries therto belonging to labour so farre as they were able the conuersion of al that belonged to God This assumption confirmed with 2. arguments is set down p. 18. the one the end inteÌ„ded by the Apostles in appointing presbyters in cities which was the conuersion of the nation for which themselues first preached in the chiefe cities the other is the 〈◊〉 or as they call it causa 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 their hope by the ministery of the Presbyters placed in the city to conuert them which belonged to God both in city country grounded on the force of the gospell restified by our Sauior The words are these for it is euident that the Apostles when they inteÌ„ded to conuert any 〈◊〉 they first preached to the chiefe cities therof Wherin when through Gods blessing they had conuerted some their manner was to ordaine Presbyters hoping by their ministery to conuert not only the rest of the city but also in the countries adioyning so many as did belong to God The Kingdom of heaven being like a little leauen which being put into any part of the 〈◊〉 seasoneth all These words thus set downe at large be the assumption of the syllogisme which he hath framed for what cannot he bring within the compasse of his syllogisms and therof he maketh 3. parts About the first he saith hee will not striue viz. the Apostles beginning to pâ—each in the chiefe cities of euery nation which though he think I caÌ„not proue is most easie to bee proued because it was the most wise and likely course to be taken for the conuersion of nations as also because it is manifest both by the scriptures other ancieÌ„t records that they took that course As Paul inteÌ„ding the conuersion of Asia where hee staied three yeares continued in Ephesâ—s all the time intending the conuersion of Macedonia went to Thessalonica Philippi of Achaia to Corinth c. The second also he franckly yeeldeth that the Apostles ordained Presbyters in cities where they had conuerted some to the truth But the 3 which is indeed the assumption it selfe and which is inferred on the former as I set them downe that if the Apostles intending the conuersion of the nation as they began themselues to preach in the cheefe cities so they placed Presbyters to the same intent hoping by them to conuert both city and countrey then were they appointed and it was their duty to labour the conuersion of all belonging to God both in city and country the assumption I say it selfe he doth deny saying it was the office of those Presbyters to attend vpon the flock that is the company already conuerted but that it can neuer be shewed nor may reasonably be thought that it was any part of their proper duty to labour the conuersion of the residue either in citie or country By which few words the deepe wisedom of the parish-disciplinarians may easily be sounded 1. They conceiue that churches in the first constitution of theÌ„ when there were but a few conuerted and before parishes were distinguished were in the same estate that now they are being fully constituted al being conuerted to the profession of the faith parishes distinguished pastors being seuerally assigned to certain particular ordinary set coÌ„gregatioÌ„s 2. That the flocke ouer which they were set was onely that number of christians already conuerted and not the whole number which in those parts pertained to God But our Sauiour calleth the elect not conuerted his sheepe And the Lord in Corinth had much people when but a few were as yet conuerted 3. That their proper office was to attend them onely which were already conuerted not to labor the conuersioÌ„ of the rest As thogh the Apostles intended by their ministry the conuersion and saluation of no more then of those few which at the first were conuerted But for the better manifestation of their wisedome they shall giue mee leaue to appose them with a few questions The Presbyters which the Apostles ordained were they not ministers of the word Caluin confesseth it and if you should deny it I haue manifestly proued that they were not lay nay that there were not any lay presbyters Were not the presbyters many in some places more in some fewer according to the proportion of the cities or countreys where they were placed were these many Presbyters who at the first were sometimes as many as those who were besides conuerted the Apostles conueying by imposition of hands the gifts of the spirit on them whom they had first conuerted who thereby were inabled for the ministry as Acts 19.6 Were they I say being many intended onely to attend that smal number which
in the first 100. yeeres Concerning Rome I haue proued already that within the first 200. yeeres it was diuided into many parishes and therefore although there bee not so good euidence for other Cities in particular yet the like is to bee concluded of them seeing they were all of the same constitution Passing by therefore his proposition I take hold of his assumption and doe plainely denie the Churches he speaketh of or any other which had a Bishop and Presbyterie to haue beene for the first two hundred yeeres no more but parishes for J doubt not but it is easier to proue that within this terme not onely the Presbyters and people in the said dioceses but also the Bishops in the same Prouinces were subiect to the Bishops of these three Cities For as it is euident of Antioch by the testimonie of Ignatius who calleth himselfe the Bishop of Syria so no reason can bee alleged why the Bishops of Ephesus and Corinth who in the third centurie and in the ages following were Metropolitans were not so in the second or if they were Metropolitans in the third and in the ages following as most certainely they were why they should not haue beene Diocesans at the least in the second The assumption hee saith appeareth plaine by the proofe of the particulars But what doth he prooue of the particulars Are his syllogismes so soone come to an end His chiefe proofes be that in the Apostle Pauls time each of them vsed to assemble in one Congregation Was this your assumption You that are so strict in exacting syllogismes and direct proofes should not haue sought to carrie away the matter as it were in the cloudes Yea but that which he prooueth doth prooue the assumption That shall thus bee tried by his owne forme of argumentation If those Churches of Corinth Ephesus and Antioch in the Apostle Pauls time were each of them no more then ordinarily assembled in one place then were they for the first 200. yeeres each of them but one parish But the Churches of Corinth Ephesus and Antioch in the Apostle Pauls time were each of them no more then ordinarily assembled in one place Therefore for the first 200. yeeres they were each of them but one parish The proposition is omitted by the disputer as taken for granted but therein he hath plaied the sophister for he that meaneth truly doth not vse to omit any part of his argument but that which is certaine or confessed But the consequence of this proposition is worse then naught for if hee had onely said thus If in the Apostles times they were each of them but one Congregation therefore for 200. yeeres they were so the consequence had beene starke naught or if he had onely said If in the Apostles time they were each but one Congregation then were they each one parish that consequence also had beene naught but when he saith If in the Apostles times each was but one Congregation therefore for 200. yeeres each of them was but a parish that consequence is as I said worse then naught That the first of the two consequences is naught it is euident for though at the first conuersion of any great City and for a while after the number vsually was so small that they might haue assembled in one place yet it is certaine that within 200. yeeres their number was growne to bee almost innumerable as hath beene shewed and therefore too great to make one ordinarie congregation This one exception if no more should bee added ouerturneth all his dispute As touching the second though it should bee granted that each of these Churches in the Apostles time did ordinarilie assemble together in one place yet would it not follow that therefore each of them was but a parish and much lesse which is the end of all this disputation that all Churches endued with ecclesiasticall power should be but parishes and consequently that euery parish should haue a Bishop and presbyterie The reasons of my deniall of these consequences I haue before set downe at large Chap. 3. § 5. and 6. and therefore this disputation I haue sufficiently ouerthrowne already For a surplussage I adde these two reasons First If these Churches because they were each of them but one Congregation were parishes before the diuision of parishes then were they such Churches as after the diuision parishes were This consequence may not be denied especially by them who would haue all parishes framed to the constitution of the first Churches But they were not such for the parishes after their diuision had not a Bishop and presbyterie but only a Presbyter assigned to them neither was the Pastor thereof superintendent ouer others neither was any of them intended to bee a mother Church Secondly if that assumption was false which denied parishes to haue beene distinguished in the Apostles times then these Churches were not onely many congregations but many parishes also But he said before that that assumption had no truth in it These two iust exceptions I haue against his consequence If against the former it bee obiected that some of his testimonies doe seeme to prooue that after the Apostles times these Churches were each of them but one congregation I answer that his maine argument and proofes thereof doe speake of the Apostles time Those which are extended further shall bee further examined Now I come to his assumption for though I doe not denie but that at the first and namely in the time of the Apostle Paul the most of the Churches so soone after their conuersion did not each of them exceed the proportion of a populous congregation yet I cannot yeeld to all his proofes His proofes be either allegation of Scriptures or other testimonies His Scriptures for Corinth are out of the first epistle to the Corinthians and Rom. â—6 1 for Ephesus Act. 20.28 for Antioch Act. 14.27 Now let vs consider the date of his testimonies and then what is testified in them The date of them is ancienter then Paul his going to Rome which was in the yeere 5â— or â—6 Which I do note to shew to what time his proposition is to bee restrained as if hee had said If before the yeere 55. or â—6 they were but one congregation then they were no more vntill the yeere 200. The thing that is testified for Corinth 1. Cor 11. is such as might bee written to the Church of England as verse 18. When you come into the Church I beare there bee schismâ—s among you vers 20. When you come together in the same place this is not to eat the Supper of the Lord vers 33. When you come together to eat expect one another Rom. 16. There is mention of the Church of Cenchreae whereof mention hath beene made now thrice to no purpose vnlesse it bee against himselfe for if Câ—nchreae were a parish subordinate to the Church of Corinth as most certainly it was it selfe hauing not a Bishop or presbyterie but a
shall bee lawfull to take another The vntruths therefore which the Refuter hath bestowed vpon me here he must be intreated to take to himselfe To proue their dissent from vs in this fourth point I alleaged Beza his distinction of Bishops into three sorts and because it is an odious distinction I conceaâ—â—d his name and to salue his credit J shewed that although hee came farre short of Caluins moderation yet he is more moderately affected towards our Bishops then the Disciplinarians among vs vsually bee who as they speake despitefully of them calling them Antichristian pettite Popes c. so doe they wish and labour for the extirpation of them whereas Beza speaking reuerently of them praieth for their continuance But both his distinction and his wish by the Refuter are peruerted expounding him as though he had accounted for humane those which had onely a priority of order whereas indeed he acknowledgeth such a presidentship as you haue heard to be a diuine ordinance and vnderstandeth his praier where he wisheth the continuance of the Bishops as if he had wished that so long as England hath Bishops they may bee such as may giue their liues for the truth as they did Where whiles hee vnderstandeth Beza as wishing our Bishoppes to be Martyrs he indiscreetly maketh him to wish that our Princes may bee persecutors which God forbid That which he addeth concerning my saying Amâ—â— to the like wish for the Churches of France and Scotland and yet be no maintainer of their presbyteries is meerely idle for I did not bring in Beza as a maintainer of Bishops bvt rather did note him as one of their chiefe opposites citing his differences from vs and mentioning that distinction of Bishops howbeit I acknowledge his proposition to be with more moderation then is commonly to be found in the Disciplinarians among vs. Now I am to descend with him into the particulars which I propounded to be handled first to shew that the Bishops or Angels of the primitiâ—e Church were as well as ours superior to other Ministers in degree and secondly to declare more particularly wherein their superiority did consist But before he entreth the combate distrusting himselfe and his cause he seeketh as such champions vse to doe which way if need be he may make an escape and hauing to this purpose looked well about him he hath found out two starting holes whereby he hopeth to finde some euasion The former hath these windings and turnings in it 1. That the primitiâ—e church is to be confined to the Apostles times and not extended to the whole 200 yeares 2. That the question is â—â— be â—nderstood of the Angels of the 7. Churches 3. That I must pâ—â—â—â—e these Angels to haue had sole power of ordination and iurisdiction The first of these argueth extreame diffidence for Caluin and others in this question within the limits of the primitiue Church include the times of Constantiâ—e at the least yea Caluin includeth all the time aâ—tepapaâ—â—m before the Papacy in which time he acknowledgeth the forme of Church gouernment to haue had nothing in it almost dissoâ—ant from the word of God And whereas saith he euery prouince had among their Bishops an Archbishop and whereas also in the Councill of Nice there were established Patriarchs who in order and dignity were superior to the Archbishops that appertained to the preseruation of discipline And although he misliketh that the gouernment so established was called Hiera â—hy notwithstanding if omitting the name saith he we looke into the thing we shall finde that the ancient Bishops would not frame a forme of Church gouernment differing from that which God prescribed in his word And Beza confesseth that those things which were ordained of the antient Fathers concerning the seats of Bishops Metropolitanes and Patriarches assigning their limits and attributing vnto them certaine authority were appointed optimo zelo out of a very good zeale And therefore no doubt out of such zeale as was according to knowledge otherwise it would haue been far from being optimus the best Zanchius intreating of the diuers orders of Ministers in the primitiue Church as Presbyters Bishops Archbishops c. faith they may be defended Against which some learned man I will not say Beza hauing taken exception Zanchius maketh this apology When I wrote this confessioÌ„ of the faith I did write all things out of a good conscience and as I beleeued so I freely spake Now my faith is grounded chiefly and simply on the word of God Something also in the next place on the common consent of the whole antient Catholike Church if that bee not repugnant to the Scriptures I doe also beleeue that what things were defined and receiued by the godly Fathers being gathered together in the name of the Lord by the common consent of all without any gainsaying of the holy scriptures that those things also though they be not of the same authority with the holy Scriptures proceeded from the holy Ghost Hence it is that those things that be of this kind I neither will nor dare with good conscience mislike But what is more certaine out of histories Councels and writings of all the Fathers then that those orders of Ministers whereof I spake were established and receiued by the common consent of all Christendome Quis aâ—tem ego sim qui quod tota Ecclesia approbauiâ— improbem And who am I that I should disallow that which the whole Church allowed c. Neither doe I see any reason why the Church in Constantines time should not rather bee propounded as a pateâ—â—e for imitation to Churches that liue vnder Christian princes and flourish through Gods blessing in peace and prosperitie then the Churches of former times which were not in all things established and setled according to their desires but were hindred by persecutioÌ„ For in time of persecution their gouernment was not alwaies such as they would but such as they could attaine vnto And vnlesse we would haue the Churches to liue alwaies vnder persecution it is madnesse to require them to be imitated in all things But what was by generall consent receiued and practised in the time of peace and prosperity was that which in their iudgements ought to be done and is of vs being in the like case to be imitated Now that in Constantines time the Bishops had superiority ouer other Ministers in degree and a singular preheminence of power and authority it is most euident Neither was their superiority and authority increased by the accession of the Christian Magistrate as their wealth was but rather diminished seeing while there was not a Christian Magistrate they were faine to supply that defect and by their owne authority did many things which afterward were done or assisted by the Magistrate But though there can no colour of a good reason be giuen why the superiority and authority of Bishoppes as they were diocesan should haue been greater
of the sacred Ministery such as Presbyters and Deacons are with vs. And so much of my second argument The third is taken from the testimony of the great Councell of Chalcedon and may thus briefly be framed It is sacriledge to reduce a Bishop to the degree of a Presbyter Therefore BB. were superior to Presbyters in degree not onely de facto but also de iure But what is this saith he to the Apostles times and the age following Indeed if the Councell had testified the superiority of Bishops de facto onely there had been some colour for this exception especially if he could haue proued an alteration in the state of Bishops and the aduancement of them to a higher degree to haue begun after the first two hundred yeeres But seeing no such matter can truly be alleaged and seeing also that famous Councell giueth testimony to the superiority of Bishops not only de facto but also de iure and that in such sort as it deemeth it sacrilege to reduce a Bishop to the degree of a Presbyter it cannot therefore bee denied but that this is a most pregnant testimony if it bee rightly alleged Let vs therefore coÌ„sider the occasion of those words which in the copie whereon Th. Balsamo doth comment and in some manuscript Greeke copies is the twenty nine canon of that Councell When Eustathius Bishop of Berytum for so I find him termed diuers times in the Acts of that Councell in Euagrâ—m in Photius and Balsamo and not of Tyre as in Tilius his Greeke edition it is corruptly printed when Eustathius J say had withdrawne diuers Bishopricks from the Metropolitan Church of Tyrus deposing the Bishops whom Photius the Bishop of Tyrus had ordained and bringing them downe to the degree of Presbyters complaint was made to the great Councell of Chalcedon and the matter therein in propounded by the Princes in these words Concerning the Bishops ordained by Photius and degraded by Eustathius and after they had been Bishops commanded to be Presbyters what is the senteÌ„ce of this holy Synod Whereto Paschasinus and Lucentiuâ— Bishops and Bonifaciuâ— Presbyter vicegerents of the Church of Rome answered To reduce a Bishop to the degree of a Presbyter it is sacrilege if any iust cause depose them from their Bishopricke neither ought they to retaine the place of Presbyters But if without any crime they haue beene remoued from their honour they shall returne againe to their episcopall dignity Anaâ—olius the Archbishop of Constantinople said These Bishops who are said to haue descended from the episcopall dignity vnto the order of Presbyters if for iust cause they are condemned neither are they worthy of the honour of Presbyters But if without any reasonable cause they haue been deiected to a lesse degree they are worthy if they be blamelesse to recouer againe the dignity and priesthood of their Bishopricke If you thinke that these were but the priuate opinions of these men heare the censure of the whole Councell All the reuerend Bishoppes cried Righteous is the iudgement of the Fathers wee all say the same things the Fathers haue decreed iustly let the sentence of the Archbishops hold My fourth argument is drawne from the testimony of Ierome whose authority in this cause ought to be of greatest weight because he is the onely man almost among the fathers whom the Disciplinarians can alledge against the superiority of Bishops Ierome therefore saith that at Alexandria from Marke the Euangelist vnto Heraclas and Dionysius Bishops euermore the presbyters hauing chosen one from among themselues and placed him in exceâ—siori gradu in an higher degree called him Bishop euen as an armie chooseth a Generall This testimony the Refuter eleuateth in two respects The first because Ierome is vnder age Which is a very simple euasion For Ierome doth not onely testify what was in his time but also giueth plaine euidence that in the first two hundred yeeres euen from S. Marke vntill Heraclas Bishops were placed in a superior degree aboue Presbyters Secondly because Bëllarmine alleageth the sâ—me testimony to the same purpose whose allegation is answered by Châ—mier whose answer if I like not he bids me try what I can say in defence of Bellarmine against it To omit how odiously this is set downe I doe professe that I may with better credit agree with Bellarmine wherein he consenteth with all antiquity then the Refuter and his consorts can agree with Aërius wherein he dissenting from all antiquity was by Epiphanius Philaster Augustine and all the Catholike Church in his time condemned for an heretike But let vs heare his answers First that Ierome proueth by the practise of the Church of Alexandria that which before he had demonstrated out of the Scriptures to wit that a Presbyter and a Bishop differ not Neither doth he call Marke a Bishop but an Euangelist This answere might become our refuter better then Chamier For first it is vntrue that Ierome in these words proueth that a Bishop and a Presbyter differ not For doth hee not plainly say that the Bishop was placed in a higher degree and doth hee not compare him in respect of the Presbyters which chose him to the Chieftaine or Generall chosen of the Army Secondly he faileth in setting downe Ieromes purpose which was not to prooue there was no difference betwixt Bishoppes and Presbyters but to prooue that Presbyters were superior to Deacons That he proueth by many arguments First because the name Episcopus Bishop in the Scriptures is giuen to Presbyters Secondly because the Apostles and Bishops are in the Scriptures called Presbyters to which purpose he alleageth 1. Tim. 4.13 1. Pet. 5.1 2. Iohn 1. and 3. Iohn 1. And thirdly whereas it might be obiected the Bishops were set ouer Presbyters he confesseth it was done for auoiding of schisme but yet so as by the Presbyters the Bishop was chosen out of the Presbyters euer since S. Marks time vntill Heraclaâ— and Dâ—â—â—ysius as a Generall by the Army or the Arch-deacon by the Deacons out of their owne company Whereby he would also insinuate that a Presbyter is so much better then a Deacon as a Bishop is superior to an Arch deacon Thirdly where he saith that Ierome doth not call Marke a Bishop but an Euangelist and saith else where that he planted that Church It is plaine that in another place he confesseth Marke to haue been the first Bishop of Alexandria If Marke therefore were superiour in degree to the Presbyters at Alexandra as no man wil deny then must the same be confessed of Anianus and the rest of his successors as Ierome plainely testifieth Secondly he answeareth That the order by which the Presbyters chose a Bishop from among themselues continued to Heraclas and Dionysius time whom he therefore calleth Bishops to the end he might signifie that in their daies after one hundred and forty yeers were expired from Marks comming to
and were Pastors thereof And secondly because if I prooue they gouerned the Presbyters who were the gouernours of the seuerall flockes then much more their iurisdiction did extend to the flockes themselues Where he saith J must prooue that the censuring the people is their onely right I answer it is sufficient to prooue their superioritie in iurisdiction which I intended and that none in the Diocese doth exercise externall iurisdiction but from the B. and vnder him A notable euidence whereof wee haue in Siluanus the famous Bishop of Troas who perceiuing those of his Clergie to make gaine of mens suits appointed others whom he thought good to bee the Judges of mens causes whereby he got himselfe great renowne And as for the power of binding and loosing in the court of conscience it is common to Bishops with all Presbyters howsoeuer in respect of the vse and exercise thereof they are subiect to the Bishop Where hee saith that Bishops haue their iurisdiction jure humano because they haue it not potestate ordinis by the power of their order he seemeth to harpe vpon something which hee doth not well vnderstand For although the Schoolemen and Papists teach that to the power of order belongeth a character and grace which God alone doth giue in their ordination yet they grant also that the jurisdiction which is conferred to them by the will of man doth also mediately proceede from God And howsoeuer it be true that Bishops with vs are assisted iure humano to exercise their publike and externall iurisdiction and to iudge in causes ecclesiasticall by the Kings ecclesiasticall Law yet this doth not hinder but that they are authorized thereunto iure Apostolico as is manifest by the Apostles themselues by Timothie and Titus and all the ancient Bishops of the Primitiue Church who by authoritie deriued to them from the Apostles did exercise the ecclesiasticall censures ouer the people and clergy before there were any lawes of Christian Magistrates to authorise or assist them thereunto But he is pleased to see how I proue the BB. to haue been superior to the Presbyters in iurisdiction though not pleased that I speake in generall of BB. for here his Coccysme againe hath place that I should haue proued the Angels of the seauen Churches to haue had iurisdiction ouer ministers vnder them Which is a miserable poore shift indeed Was not this the thing propounded to be proued that the BB. of the primitiue Church were superior in iurisdiction doth not himselfe confesse that the ancient Churches were all of one Constitution And is not the proofe of the generall a proofe of the particular also If I should say these seauen Angels had this iurisdiction some such exception of singularity in them would with as great reason be taken as against Timothy and Titus But when I proue that BB. in generall had this superiority I doe more then proue that these seauen Bishops had it The reason which I vse is an induction The Bishop had superiority in iurisdiction both to the Presbyters that were parts of the Presbytery assisting him and to the Pastors assigned to seuerall cures Therefore he had superior iurisdiction to all the Presbyters in the diocesse But the Refuter maketh me reason thus If the Bishoppes had maiority of rule both ouer the Presbyters that assisted them and also ouer the Pastors allotted to their seuerall charges then had they power of iurisdiction But they had maiority of rule ouer the Presbyters assisting them and the Pastors c. Therefore they had power of iurisdiction Why Needes this to be proued that Bishops had power of iurisdiction which euery parish Minister hath Or doth the Refuter deny that Bishops had power of iurisdiction Or if he cannot but grant the conclusion what a folly is it to wrangle with the premises And yet for feare of granting the conclusion first hee pickes a quarrell with the proposition For though they had maiority of rule c. yet wâ—ll it not follow they had sole power of iurisdiction Whence commeth this sole I pray you that hath so oft been foisted in I feare greatly from an euill conscience resolued to oppugne and deface the truth Cannot the B. be superior to Presbyters in the power of iurisdiction vnlesse they haue as none haue the sole power of iurisdiction Then hee flatly denieth the assumption But what reason doth he giue of his deniall what euidence of truth doth he bring to proue the contrary Alas he troubleth not himselfe that way all his care and endeuour is to find out starting holes and euasions to elude the truth I proue first in generall that BB. had maiority of rule or superiority of iurisdiction ouer the Presbyters euen those of the City who were the chiefe Then in particular in the next section The former I proue first by the testimony of Ierome who confesseth that of necessity a power eminent aboue all and admitting no partner at least no compeere is to be granted to the B. To this besides the poore euasion of Ieromes minority and being vnder age before answered he saith Ierome speaketh of such BB. as hee acknowledgeth to 〈◊〉 no warrant in the scriptures and to haue beene brought into the Câ—â—rch by occasâ—â—â— of schisme after the Apostles times Both which I haue before proued and shall againe proue to be manifestly false Doth Ierome deny BB. to haue warrant in the scriptures besides the places of the new testament often alledged call to mind those two on Psalme 45. and Esay 60. Where he calleth them principes ecclesia by warrant of those scriptures Doth Ierome say they were not brought into the Church vntill after the Apostles times doth not he confesse Iames Markâ— Timothy Titus and diuers others to haue been BB. in the Apostles times and that euer since S. Marke there haue beene BB. at Alexandria Secondly I alledge Ignatius whom themselues oft alledge for their Presbyteries But see what hard hap some men haue he whose authority is so good when he is alleaged by them is but a counterfeit when he is produced by me And yet those who suspect fiue of his epistles because Eusebius and Ierome mention but seauen acknowledge this ad Trallianos to be none of the fiue which are suspected but one of the seauen which are receiued This â—uasion should not haue bin vsed if he could tell how to answer his testimony otherwise Yes that he can For though Ignatius doe say that a B. is such an one as holdeth or manageth the whole power and authority aboue all yet that proueth not the sole iurisdiction of BB. God amend that soule that so oft foisteth in that sole besides my meaning and my words And yet truely Ignatius saith faire for the sole power For if the B. haue the whole power and authority aboue all why may he not be said to haue the sole power and authority ouer all what saith the refuter he alone
by reason of his great learning and renowned piety yet were it a sawcie part for him that is but a Presbiter to thinke himselfe equall with a Bishop Ierome was farre from it and therefore in his Epistles to Augustine giueth him titles of great honour vsing this inscription Domino verè sancto beatissimo Papae Augustino c. And this farewell the Lord preserue you Domine verè sancte suscipiende Papa and the like I haue said before of Caluin From Augustine he maketh a large step to Erasmus who saith Of olde there was no difference betweene a Presbyter a Priest but that the Refuter left out for feare of excluding his lay-elder and a B. And then hee leapeth backe againe to Theodoret Beda Sedulius Oecumenius Primasius Theophilact c. who affirme the same And doe not I my selfe professe the same in this Sermon doe I not also proue it in the Sermon of the dignity of the ministerie that in the Acts and Epistles of the Apostles these two words Presbyter Episcopus were confounded and the same men were called Presbyteri Episcopi what will hee conclude thereof that therefore in the three hundred yeares after the Apostles the Church was not gouerned by BB or that the office of a B. and a Presbyter were at any time confounded nay can hee proue so much as the names after the Apostles time were vsually confounded Ignatius who liued in the Apostles times euery where distinguisheth them and so doe the after Writers as Irenaeus Tertullian Cyprian Eusebius c. sauing that to BB. they giue sometimes the more generall name of Presbyters or Priests which is not to be meruailed at seeing the Apostles Peter and Iohn doe call themselues Presbyters Yea but some Protestant Writers whom afterwards hee will cite haue vnderstoode Ierome and the rest as the Refuter doth and not they onely but Michael Medina a Popish Writer is of opinion that they held the same error with Aerius This is a strange kind of arguing which our Refuter vseth to bring new Writers to depose what the old haue testified Are not their testimonies extant in print may we not read them with our owne eyes and weigh them in our owne iudgements that wee leauing the records themselues should seek to the dâ—positions of new writers to know what the olde haue testified but of the errour of them who suppose Ierome and some other of the Fathers to haue beene of the same iudgement with Aerius I haue spoken before neither doubt I now to affirme that they ioyned in opinion with Aerius no more then I do for they writing on Phil. 1. 1 Tim. 3. Tit. 1. 1 Pet. 5. doe say that in these places the names Presbyter Episcopus were confounded which places my selfe haue alledged to the same purpose After he had alledged what hee was able out of the olde Writers and yet neuer a word to the purpose he proceedeth to the new Writers who as he saith were called out of the thickest mists of Poperie to the light of the Gospell heaping vp a sort of testimonies without order and without iudgement and mingling also some testimonies out of the canon law and some Popish Writers among them And because to follow him were to runne the wild-goose race I will reduce their testimonies to certaine heads and then giue him an answere to them all Some therefore are brought to testifie that in the Apostles times BB. and Presbyters were all one the which is true for the same men were called Presbyters and BB as Heming and Zauch in Phil. 1.1 Isidor and Dist. 21. c. Cleros ex Isidor Duaren de ministr benef l. 1. c. 7. Gloss. ord Hugo Card. Cassander the councils of Constance and Basill Chemnitius Lubbertus D. Fulke D. Willet D. Morton Some that there was no difference betweene B. and Presbyter till after the Apostles times but afterwards BB. were set ouer Presbyters as Danaeus Some that at the first there were no such BB. as were afterwards and when they were brought in they were not Monarches of the Church c. as Chamier Some that iure diuino Episcopi Presbyteri be all one as Iunius and Phil. Morney and D. Whitak which is true concerning the vse of the words in the Scriptures Some that Episcopatus is not a distinct order from Presbyteratus iure diuino as D Holland whose not writings but speeches he citeth vpon report Some that B. and Presbyter by the word of God is the same not in name onely but also in office as Sadâ—â—l Some that in the Apostles times the Churches were gouerned communi presbyterorum consilio but after the Apostles they chose one to be B. as Musculus Some that Christ made ministers equall that there was at the first no contention which how true it is appeareth by Christs appointing twelue Apostles and seauentie Disciples and by the contention among the Apostles themselues for superioritie whiles Christ was with them as Bullinger Some that as the Apostles were equall so their successors which is true for the BB. are equall among themselues though superiour to other ministers as the Apostles were to the seauentie Disciples as D. Whitakers Some that Aerius was not an hereticke for saying that according to the vse of the scriptures Episcopus Presbiter is all one which is true neither had he beene an hereticke if he had said no more and that Ambrose Chrysostome Ierome and Augustine were of the same iudgement as B. Iewell Some that in the Apostles times there were onely two degrees of ministers Presbiters and Deacons as D. Humfrey Some that Bishops were not in the Apostles times as Sadeel Some that BB. he superiour to Prebiters by mans decree and not by scripture by custome of man not by the authoritie of God by mans law and not by Apostolicall institution as Heming in Phil. 1.1 Bulling Iunius B. Pilkington the Canon law falsified de iure positiuo as Cusanus not by Gods law as D. Raynolds no otherwise but by custome as Sadeel Some that Episcopus and Pastor of one flocke was at the first all one as D. Raynolds Some that there was alwaies one principall which by common vse was called a B. being chiefe though not alone both in gouernment and ordination as D. Fulke Some that BB. be in a higher degree of superioritie but not Princes that not they onely are Pastors that they haue the right of consecration though not onely as D. Willet Some that the sole and supreame authority in a B. is tyranny as Bullinger Some that the gouernment of the Church by the first institution was not Monarchicall but Aristocraticall as Chamier Some that elections were not in corners nor by one as Gualther Some that Presbiters may ordaine as being all one with BB. in office as Sadeel Some that Priests had voices and seates in Councils as indeed they haue with vs as the councill of Constance and Basill Some that
that Paul admonisheth his Disciple praelatum gregi being the Prelate of a flocke saying attend reading vntill I come 12. Isidor saith that Timothie was Bishop of Ephesus 13. Polycrates saith that Timothie trauailing with Paul to Ephesus was made the first B. there by him in the raigne of Nero. 14. Theophylact vnderstandeth by Pastors and Doctors Eph. 4. those to whose care the Church was committed that is to say BB. such as Timothie and Titus And for that cause he saith that Paul wrote to them two Againe Titus being ordayned Bishop is set ouer the great Island Creet 15. Oecumenius on those words I requested thee to remaine in Ephesus saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here hee had ordayned him B. And againe in Tim. 5. he speaketh of ordinations 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for he wrote to a B. And of Titus he saith that Paul left him to ordaine BB. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hauing first made him a B. And of both on those words Pastors and Doctors he saith Paul meaneth such as to whose trust the Churches were committed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 BB. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 such as Timothie and Titus 16. Nicephorus saith that after Paul was first dismissed from Rome he wrote his former Epistle to Timothie whom he had ordayned before B. of Ephesus And another Epistle hee wrote vnto Titus whom hauing before ordayned B. of Creet he had left there To these I might adde the testimonies of diuers new writers but I will mention onely a few whose iudgements the Disciplinarians will not easily reiect First therefore Caluin in diuers places on the Epistles to Timothie doth note that he was the Pastor of the Church at Ephesus The authors of the Centuryes say it is euident that Paul appointed Timothie the Pastor to the Church of Ephesus D. Fulke saith among the Clergie for order and seemely gouernment there was alwayes one principall to whom by long vse of the Church the name of B. or superintendent hath beene applyed which roome Titus exercised in Creta Timothie in Ephesus and others in other places c. Finally Beza himselfe noteth that Timothie was the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as Iustine calleth him that is Antistes or President in the Presbytery at Ephesus that is to say according to Bezaes language a Bishop To the testimonies which I produced the refuter answereth three things first in effect this that though the Fathers call them BB. yet properly they were not Bishops which bare denyall of his if it be weighed with the testimonies of the ancient which I named will proue as light as vanity it selfe Secondly that the consent of the Fathers is not so generall as I would make men beleiue seeing both Ambrose and Ignatius doe make Timothie a Deacon And for proofe thereof he referreth vs to T.C. whose words are these all ancient writers are not of that iudgement for not to speak of Ambrose which calleth Timothie a Deacon where he opposeth a Deacon to a Bishop Ignatius an ancient writer saith that hee was a Deacon that where diuiding the ministeries of the Church into Bishops and Deacons c. doth openly oppose a Deacon to a Bishop little reason had T.C. to speake of Ambrose and therefore might well say not to speake of him For these are Ambrose his words with the BB. and Deacons that is with Paul and Timothie qui vtique Episcopi erant who verily were Bishops he also signified the Deacons which ministred vnto him For he writeth vnto the people For if he had written to the Bishops and Deacons he would haue written to their persons and it had beene fit that he should haue written to the Bishop of the place not to two or three as hee did to Titus and to Timothie Ignatius his words be these What be the Deacons but the imitators of the Euangelicall powers ministring vnto him that is the Bishop as the Angels doe to God a pure and blamelesse ministerie as holy Steuen to Iames the blessed and Timothie and Linus to Paul Anacletus and Clemens to Peter Distinguish the times and the answere is easie Timothie was such an Euangelist as first ministred to Paul as a Deacon afterwards was ordayned Presbyter as Ambrose saith and lastly a Bishop which is as the same Ambrose saith primus Presbyter But doth his seruing vnder Paul as a Deacon proue that afterwards he was not a Bishop nay rather his being a Deacon and afterwards a Presbyter doth proue he was not such an Euangelist as the Refuter imagineth And by as good reason he might proue that neither Linus nor Anacletus nor Clemens were Bishops of Rome because they had serued vnder Peter and Paul as Deacons Here is all that our Refuter can either by himselfe or with T. C. helpe obiect out of antiquity against Timothie his being a Bishop His third answere is that the Scripture calleth him an Euangelist 2 Tim. 4.5 and therefore he was no B. which is the same with the second obiection already answered I hope therefore I may be bold with the Readers consent to conclude that Timothie and Titus were ordayned BB. by the Apostle Paul the one of Ephesus the other of Creet Serm. sect 10. pag. 81. To these mentioned in in the Scriptures we adde others out of other the most auncient records of the Church wherof some were made BB. by Peter Paul some by Iohn the Euangelist and other the Apostles c. to pag. 87. l. 1. In this section I brought diuers most plaine and pregnant euidences to proue that the Apostles ordayned BB noting the Places where and the Persons whom they ordayned The which because the Refuter passeth ouer as it were in silence I will breifly recite that it may appeare to the Reader that the Refuter had cause to be silent because the euidence of truth did put him to silence First I shewed out of Eusebius that about the yeare fortie fiue Euodius was made Bishop of Antioch by the Apostles Peter and Paul as Ignatius who succeeded him in the Apostles times doth witnesse Secondly that Peter and Paul ordayned Linus Bishop of Rome about the yeare 56 whom Anacletus succeeded and after him Clemens testified by Irenaeus and Eusebius Thirdly that by the appointment of Peter Marke was the first B. of Alexandria whom Anianus succeeded in that Bishopricke after him Abilius and then Cerdo all in the Apostles times testified by Nicephorus Gregory Eusebius Ierome and Dorotheus Fourthly that after the death of Iames the iust Simon the sonne of Cleophas was by the Apostles which then were remayning made Bishop of Ierusalem testified by Hegesippus and Eusebius Fiftly that Iohn the Apostle ordayned Polycarpe Bishop of Smyrna testified by Irenaeus Eusebius Tertullian and Ierome Sixtly that Iohn after his returne from exile ordayned BB. in diuers places testified by Clemens
there ordained The refuter replieth that my consequence is naught for euen whiles the Church was gouerned in common by the Apostles it was not gouerned without the counsell of the Presbyters of the same Church much lesse did Iames afterwards take the whole authority into his owne hands from them Which exception of his is of no force because there were no Presbyters ordayned in that Church when it was gouerned by the common counsell of the Apostles and I added which he should haue disproued if he would haue said any thing to the purposâ— that Iames was assigned Bishop to that Church before we read of any Presbyters ordayned in or to that Church For if Iames were Bishop of that Church before it had Presbyters then was not that Church ruled by the common counsell of Presbyters before they had a Bishop Iames indeed after he was Bishop ordayned Presbyters whose counsell and assistance he did vse in the gouernment and instruction of that Church as other Bishops vsed to doe in the like case as wee read Act. 15. and 21. Yea but the whole multitude saith he as appeareth by Act. 6.2.5 had the choise of Church-officers What then therefore the Church was not gouerned by the common counsell of the Apostles or was gouerned by the common counsell of Presbyters Because the Greekish Iewes which had their Liturgy and scriptures in the Greeke tongue were discontented with the Apostles distribution of the Churches stocke the Apostles therefore to auoid contention and scandall and to giue euery one contentment departed from their right and willed the whole multitude to choose seauen whom wee say the Apostles may appoint to this busines Surely if where the Presbyters are erected the people who doe contribute to the releife of the poore are permitted to make choise of ouerseers collectors for the poore it wer but a simple consequence to inferre hereupon that therefore the Churches are not gouerned by the common counsell of Presbyters And to as little purpose or rather lesse is that which followeth If the Apostles altogether or Iames alone afterterwards had by vertue of their extraordinarie calling the power of ordination and iurisdiction in â—heir hands in that as in all other Churches yet the Pastors of the Churches afterwards being no Apostles had no such vnlimited power and so Ierome still speaketh truely of the ordinary gouernment of the Church And so Ierome still spake vntruely in respect of the Church of Ierusalem I doe confesse this was peculiar to the Church of Ierusalem and differing from the order of other Churches that the Church of Ierusalem had a Bishop before it had Presbyters of her owne And therefore though I did not deny his speech to be vntrue in respect of other Churches yet I proued it to be vntrue in respect of Ierusalem by his owne testimony But before I come to the sifting thereof there are two other things to be noted in this speech of the refuter For that which he pratleth of Iames his sole power exercised in the Church of Ierusalem by vertue of his extraordinarie calling is altogether impertinent seeing Ierome of whom the question is confesseth that hee was Bishop and ruled that Church as the Bishop thereof thirtie yeeres Neither is it true that the ordinarie Pastors of that Church had not the like power therein which Iames had For there is no question but what authority Iames had in the gouernment of that particular Church of Ierusalem Simon his successor had the same and all the Bishops of Ierusalem after him Now that Ieromes speech was vntrue in respect of Ierusalem I proued by Ieromes owne testimony affirming that Iames straight wayes after the passion of our Lord was by the Apostles ordayned Bishop of Ierusalem Here the refuter hath found out a quirke which if it were true would not yet serue his turne The quirke is that Ierome is mistaken by false pointing and reading for that straight way belongeth not to Iames his being made Bishop but is brought to shew that Iohn maketh mention of him immediately after he hath spoken of our Lords passion So that Ierome doth not say that Iames straight wayes after the passion of our Lord was ordayned Bishop of Ierusalem but that Iohn mentioned him presently after hee had spoken of the passion of our Lord. Let me lay downe the whole sentence that it may appeare more plainely Iames saith Ierome who is called the brother of our Lord surnamed Iustus the sonne as many thinke of Ioseph by another wife as it seemeth to me of Mary the sister of our Lords mother of whom Iohn in his booke maketh mention after the passion of our Lord straight wayes statim id est continenter immediate vt loquuntur Iohn 19.25 saith Iunius who was ordayned Bishop of Ierusalem by the Apostles And this manner of reading is auouched by Sophronius that translated that booke of Ierome into Greeke who maketh the distinction presently after straight wayes seuering that word from his ordination by the Apostles Among many other proofes of his learning iudgement the refuter giueth this for one For first this subtility hee receiued from Iunius as he doth professe but exceedingly dulled by comming through his fingers For whereas Iunius referrâ—th the word of whom to Mary the sister of our Lords mother of whom Iohn maketh mention straight waies after the passion of our Lord Iohn 19.25 our learned refuter referreth it to Iames that twice for failing But though he might be mistaken in the English of Ieromes cuius yet me thinkes so learned a man should haue known that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Sophronius should haue beene referred to her and not to him But let that passe To iustifie his correction of this place of Ierom he saith this manner of reading is auowed by Sophronius c. which is neither so nor so For between the Greeke and the Latine there is onely this difference in that edition which I haue being as I suppose the best that whereas in the Latine there is a Colon at the word filius which followeth meminit in the Greeke there is but a Comma but at the word statim in Latin and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Greeke no distinction at all The Latine words are these vt mihi autem videtur Mariae sororis matris Domini cuius Ioannes in libro suo memunt filius pâ—st passionem Domini statim ab Apostolis Hierosolymorum Episcopus ordinatus The Greeke these 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For the correction it self I would be loth to contest with Iunius neither is that subtilty which he hath found out preiudiciall to my assertion as you shall heare notwithstanding I must needs say he was greatly transported with preiudice when he would referre the aduerbe statim to the verbe meminit rather then to the participle ordinatus For though both the Comma and Colon that come betweene them were taken away yet the word filius comming also betweene
is but an ouerseer of a Parish c. In the next place he citeth Viret as pleading for a popular state in euery church wherein if the allegation be true he is singular hauing neither the iudgement of any other sound Diuine nor practise of any reformed Church that I know of No not of Geneua it selfe to second him For though the common wealth of Geneua be reduced to a popular state yet the gouernment of the church by their consistorie is Aristocraticall And though he passeth by as well he might Caluin and Beza Bucer Peter Martyr Bullinger Brentius Musculus whom he thought good to mention onely as fauourers of the pretended discipline yet neither any of these nor any other moderate and iudicious Diuine doth condemne as our Presbyterians doe eyther the ancient gouernment by Bishops in the primitiue Church or the retayning thereof in reformed churches now as hath been shewed before But he is pleased to conclude with some of our own writers and Martyrs And first with Francis Lambard who is alledged as saying that a B. and preacher a church and a parish is all one that euery parish should haue right to choose their Pastour and which is a very vnaduised speech if it be truely alledged to depose him if he proue vnworthy but not as disallowing the gouernment of the church by orthodoxal BB. eyther now or in the Primitiue church which was the point to be proued And the like is to be said of Iohn Lambart c. As for Bradford whom hee citeth as holding that the Scripture knoweth no difference betwixt a B. and a minister meaning that the names were confounded and that nothing is to be gotten by the succession of Popish BB. as minister not but Lord it yet nothing can be alleadged out of him to proue that he disalloweth the gouernment of orthodoxal Bishops But it is strange that he should alleadge B. Hooper and B. Bale as disallowing in their iudgement the superioritie of BB. which they allowed in their practise But all that is said out of B. Hooper is eyther that BB. were not till Siluesters or Constantines time such as they are now which is true in respect of their outward estate which by the peace and prosperitie of the Church was much increased but is not to be vnderstood in respect of the substance of their calling or that excommunication should not be vsed by the B. alone which is little or nothing to the present purpose as if hee must needs disallow the Episcopall function vvho vvould not haue the Bishop to excommunicate alone B. Bale vnderstandeth by the names of blasphemie written on the heads of the beast Apoc. 13. the titles of Popish offices which he saith are vsurped and not appointed by the holy Ghost among which when he reckoneth Metropolitanes Diocesans Parsons Vicars and Doctors he cannot be vnderstood as speaking of these offices in the true church but as they are members of Antichrist For what is the office of a Parson but of a Pastour c. And that this vvas his meaning appeareth by the other allegation wherein besides the titles and offices of the Popish hierarchy among whom he reckoneth BB. Doctors Priests he addeth temporall gouernors also as Emperours Kings Princes Dukes Earles Lords Iustices Deputies Iudges Lawyers Mayors Baylifes Constables c. leauing their owne duetie offices as to minister rightly to serue their abhomination After these for want of better proofes hee alleadgeth the testimonie of the English men which were at Geneua in Queene Maries time and were the first authors of this contention for the pretended discipline among vs to whose testimonie in their owne cause that they present to vs the forme of a Church limited within the compasse of Gods word what should I answere but that they haue often said but neuer will be able to proue that their discipline is prescribed in Gods word Lastly he alleadgeth M. Foxe whose testimonie though in vaine I sought in three seuerall editions yet his iudgement is apparant by that which may easily be found Hee therefore saith according to the refuters allegation that in the Primitiue Church there was not then any one mother Church such as the church of Rome now pretendeth her selfe to be aboue other Churches but the whole vniuersall Church was the mother Church vnder which vniuersall Church in generall were comprehended all other particular Churches in speciall hee meaneth the Churches of seuerall countreyes and Prouinces as sister Churches together not one greater then another but all in like aequalitie What will hee hence conclude that therefore there were no BB. nor Archbishops Not so But that therefore as the Diocesan churches were equall so were the BB. and as the Metropolitane churches were equal so the Archbb. Heare Mr. Foxe himselfe where he debateth this question If they say there must needs be distinction of degrees in the church and in this distinction of degrees superioritie must necessarily be granted for the outward discipline of the church for directing matters for quieting of schismes for setting orders for coÌ„mencing of Conuocations Councils as need shal require c. Against this superioritie we stand not and therefore we yeeld to our superiour powers Kings and Princes our due obedience and to our lawfull gouernours vnder God of both regiments Ecclesiasticall and Temporall Also in the Ecclesiasticall state we take not away the distinction of ordinarie degrees such as by the scripture be appointed or by the Primitiue Church allowed As Patriarkes or Archbb. BB. Ministers and Deacons for of these foure we especially reade as chiefe In which foure degrees as we grant diuersitie of office so we admit in the same also diuersitie of dignitie neither denying that which is due to each degree neither yet maintaining the ambition of any singular person For as we giue to the Minister place aboue the Deacon to the B aboue the Minister to the Archbishop aboue the B. so wee see no cause of inequalitie why one Minister should be aboue another minister one Bishop in his degree aboue another B. to deale in his Diocese or one Archbb. aboue another Archbishop And this is to keepe an order duely and truely in the church c. Here then is the question betweene vs and the Papists whether the Metropolitane church of Rome with the Archbb. of the same ought to be preferred before other Metropolitane churches and Archbb through vniuersall Christendome or not And thus I haue examined his testimonies which if you shall compare with those whereunto in the Sermon I referred the reader you wil acknowledge that he had little cause either to accuse my speech of vntruth or to iustle out the Surueyours testimonies with his own as though they had not beene worthy to haue been heard in comparison of his Wheras indeed if there had been no more testimonies alleadged then of the authors of the Augustane conâ—ession and the subscribers therunto whom I especialy ment being the men