not onely in that S Paul preached somewhere yeares other where moneths in some places weeks in other not all but in that by certein vocation S. Peter c. were more bound to the places where the Iewes then where the Gentils were and Saint Paul and Barnabas had in their generall charge a more streight bond to preach vnto the Gentils then to the Iewes And albeit the Euangelistes he imagineth are let so lose that they may preach through the realm yet euen in that scope he leueth them they haue a neerer knot and further dutie off preaching in places of their natiuitie abode of freinds aÌ„d kinsfolk Therfore if the residence off a Pastor be no more then the D. plainly setteth downe that he ought to doo it especially in that place and more in that then in others the difference betwene a Pastor and them towching the bond to a place graunted also off the Answ is cleane taken away Burhe will not answer the former reason because it cometh owt off place Where forsomuch as preaching in other places is alledged to be one off the cheif cawses off non residence all men see that this arrow was shot at the heart off his cause And yf yt had no place here why did not he cary yt to the proper place how cometh it to passe that he answereth yt not els where But how vaine this excuse is it appeareth seing eueÌ„ in this diuision to proue that the Pastors may preach in other places then in their charges which is that he refuseth to speake off as impertinent he alledgeth the example of the Apostels and Euangelists and so continueth almost a whole side off repetitions Likewise to that alledged that Timothe and Tite cam not from Ephesus and Crete off their ovvne heades but called off the Apostle a cheiff gouernour off the church vvhich can be no vvarrant to those vvhich leue their charges vvithout any such calling he answereth not That which is saide off the D. that S Paul sent for Timothe for his owne priuate busines is vntrue nether hath any grownd off the word And if he thinck that those wordes help him that Timothe should bring Marck as one profitable to serue him they rather confute him for yt is absurd to imagin that S. Paul would take twoo such notable lightes from the seruice off the church to serue his priuate busines and to doo that which mâ—ght be doon by others which had no publike charge in the church especially considering that he had Luke with him before Therfore that seruice must be expounded of the seruice off the gospell whereunto he would employ them Whereas I alledged for residence against those which leauing their proper charges wander in other places that they should not attempt any thing in the ministerie vvithout calling the Ans saith a man is not so called to one place that he is restrained from doing good in other which is not the question For it is not denied but he may doo good by praier counseill and writing After be saith that he constantly belieueth that in the moe places he laboureth the more his seruice is accepted vnto God and p. 241. that he is a meÌ„ber and minister off the whole church generally and pag. 224. wheresoeuer the preacher may doo most good thyther he is called of God. Wherein beside the miracle off making Apostles he bringeth in other wonders which the Lord him selff neuer wrought which is to chaunge a Pastor into an Apostle And beside that it is directly against the order off the scripture which calleth them bishops off such and such a particular church and not off the whole church against the Canons off the ould Councels which forbad the bishops to goe beyond their owne boundes and assigneth that cause off appointing Patriarchs yt is against that him self hath set downe where putting differeÌ„ce betwene pastors bishops aÌ„d other preachers he saith that Pastors and bishops haue their cures limited Whereuppon foloweth that if they goe to other places they both passe their limits and destroy the difference assigned off the Answ between them and other licenced preachers Yea if he be minister off the whole church he hath a necessary calling to preach in as many places as he can possibly as he which otherwise shal be gilty off their bloud ouer whom hauing a mynistry he hath doone no duty But forasmuch as the Pastor hath his calling vnto one certein place onely yt must needes be that he goyng to other churches off his owne head goeth withowt calling Onles he will here flie vnto secret persuasions off the spirit off God without the voice off the church which is mere Anabaptisticall And where he saith that God calleth him to that place where he may doo moste good first he doth presumpteously that taketh vpon him to determin where he may doo moste good and that which controlment off the churches iudgement which placing hym in a certein church thereby gyueth her sentence that he might doo moste good there Then I answer that although he could know where he might doo most good yet that is no sufficient calling off god For the lord calleth sometime his ministers vnto places where they gaine least and sendeth none to those where after preaching would folow repentance as appeareth by that our Sauiour Christ speaketh off Corazim and Bethsaida compared with Tyre and Sydon off Capernaum compared with Sodom and by that the Lord saith to Ezechiel off the Iewes compared with the Gentils And our Sau. Christ which knew where he might do moste good and best fill his hand off the Lordes corne folowing the calling off God his father euen in the land off Iury where his charge was preached more in certein stoncharted townes then in those which were better affectioned to his doctrine Which may appeare both by Ierusalem and the exaÌ„ples before recited and especially in Capernaum In which for that he preached so often and wrought so many miracles yt is in an other place called his owne cyty Now if our Sau. Christ preached no where but by the calling off God his father and yet few in places more aboundantly where he knew he should haue a thinner haruest yt foloweth that yt ys both vntrue which the Answ saith that God calleth a man to preach where he may doo most good and true that the lawfull voyce of the church being the same to the Mynisters now which the holy spirit off God was in those extraordinary callinges owght to goe before euery one in his mynistry not onely for direction off hym to preach but also for the place where Whereuppon foloweth that he which being placed in one church leapeth into an other without an other calling off the church runneth or euer he be sent So that althowgh the Pastor had neuer so harty a desyre to profyt in his wandring from place to place yet hauing no calling there is no obedience and therefore if in casting his net
ouer his second and third instructions and admonitions c. why may be not the first So it may come to passe which he deniing in vvordes doth in deed confirme that a Pastor may doo all by deputy That he alledgeth off God directing the preacher in his wordes and matter tendeth to Anabaptisme For aswell may it be alledged to proue that the Pastor may preach without study as withowt knowledge of the estate of his people as a meanes to direct both his wordes and matter to the most profit of his hearers Where he saith a discrete preacher will so temper his matter as he may profit all and hurt none Yf he had tould vs how and off what droges tha◠receipt is made which is fit at all times in all places I should better haue knowen what to haue answered In the mean season he is cleane beside the question vvhich is not whether a man may profit in preaching to the people whose estate he knoweth not but whether he profiteth more that knoweth yt He that casteth blindefold may hit the mark but no wise man will lay any thing on his head The reasons I brought to proue that the want off knowing the estate may ether hinder the fruit or gyue occasion off that daunger vvhich by knowing it might be auoided are for the moste part vntowched Heere his memory serueth him not for any place owt of the law which proueth continuall residence off the Pastor I will let passe the howses built rownd abowt and ioyning to the temple vvhich being doon off Salomon as was the rest off the building according to the vvord of God might declare how neer their charges the lord vvill haue the Ministers off the church Likewise I will not presse the example which is alledged off Ely sitting at the dore of the Tabernable to espy the manners and answer the doubtes off those vvhich entred I vvill content my selff vvith the Apostel the best expounder off the law vvho setting forth the Priestes function by that part off it vvhich consisted in sacrifices vseth a word off great strenght to binde them to a continuall residence and signifieth in effect a continuall sitting at their charge Now considering that the Pastors diligence is the same in his church that theirs was in their charge continuall presence being required off them the same or greater rather if greater can be is required off the pastor as he which hath greater trust committed vnto him That which is spoken off diuers beside the Pastor able to dissolue doubtes which arise not to meddle vvith the truth thereof nor to stay in the great giftes required in one that should comfort him that is cast downe whom the scripture affirmeth to be so care that a man shall skarce finde one amongest a thowsand I answer that it helpeth not not onely becawse they hanging of their Pastor know not to whom to haue recourse but also considering that the dissoluing off the doubt or comfort according to the necessity off the person dependeth not off knowledge onely but vppon the blessing which the Lord giueth that being therefore greater and more aboundant when yt is doon by the instrument vvhich the Lord hath sanctified for that pourpose yt followeth that if there vvere such supplies as he speaketh of yet the Pastors presence is necessary And therefore yt helpeth him not which he alledgeth afterward owt off the Coloss that they should admonish one an other in psalmes c. but maketh against him considering that if particular persons haue a duty off admonishing those that are fallen the Pastor hath much more And if the lord will not spare the meanes off the admonition off a priuate man for restoring off hym that is fallen he vvill much lesse spare the mynistery off the Pastor That which he often repeteth of help by reading off the scriptures is not to the pourpose For if the help of the Pastor be not requisite when the sheep are particularly stricken off the Lord there ys no necessary vse off hym at all And where the Lorde hath prouided resistance agaynst tentation not onely by reading but also and that especially by the lyuely voice off the Mynister what is els to betray the sheep vnto the woulf yf this be not to leaue them destitute off the moste principall meanes off their defense beside that the place off Tymothe 2. 3. is abused whilest he draweth those thinges to priuate men vvhich the Apostle speaketh off the Mynister off the word vvhom he calleth the man off God as the manner of the scripture is to call the Prophetes in which respect Saint Paul so calleth Timothe in an other place Nether dothe it belong vnto priuate persones to teach and to confute false doctrine which the Apostle sheweth to be a part off those good workes which scripture storeth that man off God with To the next diuision he answereth nothing but yet filleth vp the place as is there to be seen To that out off the Apostle and our Sauiour Christ off the Pastors presence that in going before his flock he might serue for a patron off good vvoockes he answereth that our Sauiour Christ and Sainct Paul serue for examples to those which neuer saw them and with whom they were not continually Albeit the light off their example shining so cleare might be seen off those which were far of yet the same followeth not in the pastors vvhose light is a great deal dim̄er Likewise the pastor being notas our S. Christ and S. Paul lightes off the world but off those howses ouer vvhich they are set ought to be placed vvhere they may giue most light vnto them Cōsidering that it is vnmeet not onely to put the light vnder a bushell vvhere it is altogether vnprofitable but also vnder the table vvhere notwithstanding it may giue some comfortable remedy against the darcknes Therefore forsomuch as the example that may be both seen and heard hath more force to conforme the followers vnto yt then that which is onely heard the reason remaineth still vnanswered seing the question is not onely how he may serue for example but how he may doo yt to their moste aduantage To that of the restreint of Pastors to their proper flockes he answereth he wrote not to Pastors onely but to all in generall that haue the name off Elders his reason therof that Peter saith he was also an elder is senseles and hath no māner of tast I vvill not stick to cōfesse that S. Peter vvrote in those wordes to other Elders then the Pastors yet that he vvrote to them onely that vveretied to particular congregacions which mainteineth the reply yt ys manifest by the vvordes alledged owt of S. Peter Wherein yf I haue brought the right sense he owght to haue rested els to haue confuted thereasons wherewith that translation is vvarranted and the other vvhich he setteth downe remoued and not thus cōfusedly to make a mashe of all And it auaileth him
it hath some smale force in humane sciences for as muche as naturallie and in that he is a man he maye come to some rypenes off Iudgement in those sciences Which in diuine maters hathe no force at all as off him which naturally and as he is a man can no more Iudge off them then a blind man off colours Yea so farre is it from drawing credite if it be barelie spoken withowt reason and testimonie off Scripture that it carieth also a suspition off vntrewth whatsoeuer proceded from him which the Apostle did well note when to signifie a thing corruptlie spoken and against the truthe he saith that it is spoken according vnto man he saith not as a wicked or lying man but symplie as a man And althowghe this corruption be reformed in manye yet forsomuch as in whom the knowledge of the truthe is most advāced there remaineth bothe ignorance and disordered affections wheroff either turneth him from speaking off the truth no mans authoritie withe the church especiallie and those that are called and perswaded off the authoritie off the word off God can bring any assurance vnto the conscience So that iff all that the D. affirmeth were trew as it is vntrue and iff all those authorities which are alledged were faithfullie and according to the meaninge off the writers cited as they are almost all writhen and falsified yet being for the most part vpholden by the bare authoritie and credite off men they can giue no reste to any Christian conscience which shall leane vppon them And iff he saye that those men haue not spoken withowt reason and warrant off the word of god then besides that he is greatly to blame that bringeth not the reasons which moued them to thinke so and wherupon as vppon certen pillers that sentence might stand it falleth owt still against him that the argument off authoritie hathe no force as that which hathe no credit off it selffe but as altogither lame is faine to borowe feete off an other And then the D. should haue considered that for so muche as the reason off authoritie standeth for the cause and sake off an other that is to saye for the argument off causes and other places it must needes be worse then the arguments wherupon it hangeth for that for whose cause another thinge is is better thē the thing which dependeth vpon it And therby further followeth that forsomuch as reason withowt authoritie is good and authoritie withowt reason nothing worthe that those argumentes whiche are grounded vpon reasons are better then those which are grounded vppon authoritie And wheras peraduenture he will seke some colour of defence off his absurd speache in the wordes which he addeth of suche learned men as do rightly interprete the scripture that addition as it taketh not awaye from the absurditie so it addeth to the folie and impropretie of speche For besides that he taketh that for graunted which is the question that is to saye whether it be rightlie interpreted or noo he should haue vnderstanded that the rightnes of the interpretation depēdeth not vpon the authoritie of the man or in that suche a godlie or learned man did so interprete it but in that the place is expounded agreablie vnto the suite of the texte And that the D. which vnder the name off auncient authoritie would oppresse the truthe may vnderstand that euen in this magnifiyng of authoritie he is not so good a scholer o◠disciple off his pretended masters of diuerse sentences off the fathers them selues wherby some haue likened them vnto brute beastes withowt reason which suffer themselues to be led by the iudgement and authoritie off others some haue preferred the iudgement of one simple rude mā alledging reason vnto companies off learned men I will content my selffe at this time with two or thre sentences Ireneus saith Vvhatsoeuer is to be shevved in the scripture can not be shevved but of the scriptures thē selues 3. l. 12. c. Iero. saith No man be he neuer so holie or eloquent hathe any authoritie after the Apostles Augustin saith that he vvill beleue none hovv godly and lerned so euer he be vnles he confirme his sentence by the scriptures or by some reason not cōtrary to them And in an other place heare this the Lord saith heare not this Donatus saithe Rogatus saithe Vicentius saith Hilarius saith Ambrose saith Augustin saithe but harken to this the Lord saithe And againe hauinge to doo withe an Arrian affirmeth that neither he ovvght to bringe forthe the councell off Neece nor the other the councell of Arimin therby to btinge preiudice eche to other neither ovvght the Arrian to be houlden by the authoritie off the one nor him selffe by the authoritie of the other but by the scriptures vvhiche are vvitnesses proper to neither but common ro bothe matter vvith matter cause vvith cause reason vvith reason ovvght to be debated And in another place against Petiliane the donatian hereticke he saith Let not these vvordes be heatd betvvene vs I Saye yovv Saye let vs heare this Thus saithe the lord and by and by speaking off the scriptures he saithe there let vs seeke the churche there let vs trie the cause Here yt is manifest that the argument of authoritie off man affirmatiuely is nothing worthe which the answerer notwithstanding maketh so great accounts off likewise that reason whiche is not directly against the trewth is preferred to authoritie which the A. denieth and if Augustin thowght that in a matter off controuersie the authoritie off so manye godlie and learned fathers as were assembled at that Councell off Nece interpeting the scriptures rightlie owght not to be alledged not onelie to condemne and conuince but not so muche as to preiudice an heresie long agoo condemned iff he would haue the trewth tried by the scripture onely let all men iudge how euill a folower off Augustin the D. is which in the authoritie of one or two men layeth so great weight that he thinketh that kinde off proufe to be the best proufe off his and ouerthrowe off his aduersaries cause And iff at any time it happened vnto him as it did against the Donatistes ▪ and others to alledge the authorite off the auncient fathers which had bene before him yet that was not done before be had layed a sure foundation off his cause in the scriptures and that also being prouoked by the aduersaries off the treuth who bare themselues highe off some Councell or off some man off name that had fauoured their parte And therfore iff the A. would salue this with the example off Augustin in other places yet for that he neuer in any cause laieth any foundation either of any scripture or colour of scripture ād being prouoked flieth still from it as from the rocke and sandes o his cause it is clere that if he had that authoritie which he pretendeth vntrulie on his side yet the vse off it in this sorte were bothe by the rule off
othe made with theÌ„ put to deathe And vnles this be admitted we shall be compelled to condemne the spies which entred into league with Rachab the Harlot and SalomoÌ„ which receiued the Amorytes that voluntaryly yelded theÌ„ selues vnto his obedience and withall vnto the obedience off the lorde as it maie appeare in the bookes off Esra and Nehemias where their posteritie which are there called the sonnes off the seruantes of Salomon hauing of olde time grow ne into one bodie off the churche off god withe the children of Israel ioyne themâ—elues with theÌ„ in the restoring of the temple Wheruppon the A. may vnderstande that the Scripture reasonethe negatiuely againste the Israelites in a thinge wheroff there was no commaundement to the contrarie Moreouer we reade that when Dauid had taken this counsell to builde a temple vnto the lorde albeit the lorde had reuealed before in his worde that there shoulde be suche a standing place where the arke off the couenante and the seruice off god shoulde haue a certeine abydinge and albeit there was no worde off god which forbad Dauid to builde the temple yet the lorde with commendation off his good affection and zeale he had to the aduancement off his glorie concludeth againste Dauid his resolution to builde the temple with this reason namelie that he had giuen no commaundement off this who shoulde builde yt Where he woulde grounde this answer vpon the wordes off Zuinglius yt is manifest that Zuinglius reproueth the Anabaptistes not for reasoning negatiuely off the authoritie off the scripture but that they reasoned negatiuely off an acte or an example And there is great difference betwene them that saye it is no conteined or it can not be concluded off any place in the scripture therefore yt is vnlawfull and betweene the Anabaptistes which reason that therefore the baptisme off children is vnlawfull because it is not founde in the Scriptures that the Apostles did babtize any children Wheras iff they had reasoned thus that the baptisme off yonge children was vnlawfull forasmuche as yt was not commaunded in the scriptures althowghe the grounde off their reason had bene false yet their conclusion had bene faste and sure And therfore iff the answerer wolde haue delte trewly he shoulde not haue fathered this answer of Zuinglius whiche hathe no suche thinge but off the Papistes whose proper defense this is againste those whiche manifie the sufficiencie of the worde off God as that whiche giueth men addresse vnto all thinges whiche are to be doone Maister Harding reprochethe the Bishopp off Salusbery with this kinde off reasoning whiche the answerer obiectethe againste vs so often vnto whom the Bishopp answereth The Atgument Maister Hearding meanethe and not very plainely vttereth is the argumente off authoritie negatiuely vvhich is taken to be goode vvhen soeuer proufe is taken off godds vvorde and is vsed not onely by vs but also by many of the catholike fathers And there alledgeth how Saint Paul in the 3. Gal. dispureth negatiuely off the authoritie off the scripture for that the Apostel vppon the wordes off Moses in thy seede and not seades concludeth that our sauiour Christe was vnderstanded likewise he shewe the how Origine reasoneth after the same sorte And a litle after sheweth the reason why the argumente off authoritie off of the scripture negatiuelie is good namely for that the worde off God is perfecte In another place vnto Maister Harding casting him in the teethe with the negatiue Argumentes he alledgeth places owte of Ireneus Chrisostome Loo which reasoned negatiuely of the authoritie of the scripture The places which he alledgeth be very full and plaine in generalitie withowt any suche restraincte as the A. imagineth as they are there to be seene Wheras he saithe that the reason that God coulde giue a perfecte patrone off the churche therfore he hathe so doone doothe no more folow then in there all presence off the Sacrament he doothe but trifle withe his reader For I reason not off the bare power off God but haue ioyned his will with his power For my wordes be that the Lorde determining to set before our eyes a perfecte forme off his churche is bothe hable to doo yt and hathe doone yt Where yt is euidente vnto all men that I grounde my reason not onely off the habilitie off the lorde but vpon his determination not onely off that which he coulde doo but off that he hathe doone Diuision 2. pag. 79. VNto that wherin he was towched for his vnskilfulnes in diuiding in that bothe matters off gouernement and matters of faithe which he deuideth and by diuiding opposethe meete so frendlie together in the gouernement of the Pope he answerthe not And yet hauing nothing to answer he findeth him selfe the talke of a whole sheete of paper For first off all how ridiculous ys it that he saithe he did not put a case but an example Then whether perteines it that he settethe doune what the Papistes saye off the pope what the pope doothe himselffe That also whiche he affirmethe in so good earnest that no gouernement owght to be receiued direcly againste the worde off God that he repeatethe and repeateth againe his negatiue argument of the popes supremacie are they not all strey spreaches fraied owt of ther wittes carying not the weight of a fether to the profe off any thinge in controuersie hauing no knot either with the cause or one of them with another Likewise the distinctions off Ceremonies and gouernement off substantiall and accidentall of externall and spirituall are altogether vnprofitable brought to auoide his apparant ignorance in diuiding Likewise his dalying in his questions what gouernement I meane which is apparant in the discours off all our bookes off boothe sydes also his groping at none dayes by questions what it mente by matters necessarie to saluation which is expressed off me in the very nexte diusioÌ„ and againe in the thirde chap. 2 diuision Afterwarde when he setteth him selffe to proue that there is no one finde off gouernement certaine and vnuariable in the churche let yt be obserued how loosely aÌ„d childishelie he doothe yt For beside the firste reason which is a begging of that whiche is in questioÌ„ and the later reason drawne of the authoritie of maister Gwalier wherof he can haue no aduantage vnles with master Gwalter he will affirme that excommunication is not necessary nor yet conuenient vnder a Christien magistrate all the reste of his authorities drawne owte of M. Caluine the heluetian confession Bullinger are quite beside the cause For they are to proue that there may be a churche withowte excommunication As thowghe the question were what thinges the churche of those whiche be prescribed by the worde off God may wante aÌ„d yet be the churche of god and not what thinges yt owght to haue by the prescripte of the worde off god Or as thowghe the question were how sicke the churche might be and yet liue how meimed
worse and that it was not able to put this order off the church to flight vntill yt approching vnto her full age had gotten greater strenght off wickednes What Ierome hath of this matter I haue shewed In the next Diuision beside this question whether yt be conuenient for a minister to take wages which can liue off his owne which I will not enter into there is nothing but bare repetition and open petition of that in controuersie The next chap. of Ceremonies in ordeining is answered before That functions off Apostels Euangelistes and Prophetes are not ordinarie Chap 3. pag 229. TO th end it may be better vnderstanded that the D. hath here in maintenance of his Anabaptisticall dreame so confusedly turned vppon heapes I will first mainteine the argumentes which I haue set downe after answer vnto his reasons taken out of the scripture thirdly shewe howe impudently he hath abused the autoritie both of elder and later writers to couer this phrenesie Which shal be doon so much the shorter as he is vnworthye any answer at all First to nip at the distinction off ordinary and extraordinary functions receiued off all which haue but a sparkle off iudgemente he saith that the gift off foretelling thinges to come was for the tyme wherin yt was ordinary Which beside that yt is senseles yt being ordinary in this part which is doon by a setled order and rule appointed off God vnto his church yt ys also from the pourpose consideringe that the question is not off an ordinary function in the beginning off the Gospell but off the gospell symply which reacheth to the whole estate off the church vnder the Gospell Therfore forasmuch as he can not deny but such Prophetes if any were should nowe be extraordinary the distinction standeth After to that I set downe off the vvord Apostel extended in the proper signification to all Ministers that are sent which the knowledge of the Greek word might haue led him to he opposeth Caluin which saith in the proper signification it onely comprehendeth the nombre off 12. Wherin he declareth himselfe but a trifler For onles he be at defiance vvith his grammer he shal be constreined will he nill be to confesse it to be true which I haue set downe That which Maister Caluin saith is not contrary considering that vvhere I spake off the generall vse off the worde he spake of the vse off it in the newe Testament where it is most vsually taken in that sense As for that he saith it is the proper signification he meaneth not the naturall as I ment and expressed but the particular in which sense proper is also taken which appeareth in that he calleth the other generall Where I assigned a proper note off an Apostell to be called immediatly off God he setteth him selfe to confute it when a litle before he had statly confessed that yt is a thing proper vnto the Apostels to be called off God immediatly His first exception is of Matthias which he saith was not so chosen which is vtterly vntrue where he saith also that I confesse the same that is an open vntruth For I shewed that the election out off those two was permitted vnto lot that thereby the Lord might from heauen declare whom he would haue to be an Apostell So that the church chose no Apostle but onely chose twoo off the which one was taken by the Lord to be an Apostle His other exception is off Barnabas which being an Apostle as he saith appeareth by the 11. off the Actes not to haue bene called immediatly where there is not a word which confirmeth that and therfore he durst not note the place whereoff he gathered yt Where he saith it can not be proued by the scripture that he was so called he beggeth the thing in controuersie not able to answer the reasons alledged For where he saith that S. Paul doth not say that he sawe Christ to proue that he was an Apostel but to proue that he was not inferiour to other Apostels he is manifestly confuted both by the wordes going before and folowing after For hauing propounded this for his question am I not an Apostell ād not as he saith am I inferior to any Apostel he addeth for a reasō haue I not seen Christe And in the next wordes that followe yf I be not an Apostell vnto others yet I am to yovv he declareth that the estate off the question is there whether he were an Apostel or no. To that I alledged off the protestantes prouing that the Pope can not be Peters successour because there is no succession into the office off an Apostell he aswereth not To that I alledged off Epaphroditus called an Apostel not in respect of the ministrie of the vvord but as sent vvith relief vnto Saint Paul he patcheth out an answer almost of as many coulors as he alledgeth autorities out off the Centuries that he was an Apostel in that sense that Paul and the rest off the Apostels were Which beside that yt is false they onely affirming that he was an Apostel is cleane contrary to that he alledgeth out off Caluin that it is taken there generally for any sent to preach and therefore it can not be taken in that signification off Apostels in which the 12 and Paul. yt is contrary also to that owt off Ambrose which saying that he was therefore called an Apostel because he was sent off Paul confirmeth in part that which I haue set downe that he was called an Apostle not in respect off any dignitie off ministery aboue others Ministers off the word but onely in that he was sent Finally contrary to that alledged owt of Theodoret which so calleth hym an Apostle that forthwith also he maketh him to be a Bishop When as if he be a Bishop he can not be such an Apostell as the 12. considering that they be twoo seuerall members off the ministers off the Gospell differing by the D. owne cōfession at the least in the place of exercise off their misterie the bishop hauing an especiall bonde to his Bishopricke and the Apostel preaching Where he thincketh need Where he saithe also that it confirmeth his side that he is called the Apostell off the Philippians and other the Apostels off the churches for that thereby it may appeare that one may be Apostel off a kingdome or off a prouince he dalieth with his reader For in that place I alledged out off the 2. Corinthes 8. the Apostels off the churches are not so called in respect off any ministery off the word but off the almes which they were sent with And beside that the church off the Philip. was nether prouince nor kingedome but a particular church Epaphroditus is not called their Apostel in that he was sent off Saint Paul vnto them but in that the Philip. sent him to Saint Paul as the wordes which followe immediatly after obserued off Maister Beza doo declare So that yf that place
into an other mannes fishing he should enclose neuer so great a multitude yet with owt pardoÌ„ he shall one day heare that to obey is better theÌ„ sacrifice â–ª and to harken better then the fat of raÌ„mes â–ª Where he addeth that God enclineth not so to one church that he would haue the other neglected I graunt and further that euery one ought to take care off all the churches but according to the boundes off that calling wherein he is set off god And beside that I haue shewed that the loue off God towards men is no certein rule to direct the minister in his function but his calling the Answ by this reason must take shipping ouer to Rome and Constantinople and to whatsoeuer place he shall vnderstand to haue need off his help Yow doo as yow say dally not with mine but with the holy Gostes metaphors off pastor and watcheman And fyrst where yow would so assigne the resemblance betwene these and a Pastor off the church in other thinges that yow would not haue yt come to the diligence and continuance in feeding yow are manifestly confuted by the words off the scripture for in the person of Peter yt requiring off all ministers off the word that they should feed feed feed according to the charge committed vnto them sheweth that the similitude reacheth to the diligent continuance Which may better appeare in that as the gouernment of the Pastor towardes his church is set owt in the picture off a shepherd so is the spirituall gouernment of our Sauiour Christ shadowed forth in the same similitude and life as our spirituall feeding is off Christ so the principall meanes which he vseth to feed vs by is the Pastor Whereuppon yt followeth that if it be needfull for vs at all times to haue our spiritual feeding of Christ yt is needfull also to haue alwaies that hand which the Lord especially hath appointed to giue it by Likewise noting a good minister by watch day and night without cease yt is cleare that the resemblance reacheth vnto the continuance vpon their charge Whereunto perteineth that the scripture compareth the spirituall watch ouer the churches with the watch which shepherdes kept in those countreis which for the multitude off wolues and other hurtfull beastes watched day and night For thereby is implied a greater attendance then if the comparison had been drawne off the fashion off our countreis Which although it be expresly set downe in my 49. pag. yet the Ans will not vnderstand â—t but saith he knoweth not wherefore the 2. of S. Luke should be quoted To conclude it is to be obserued that albeit he grateth the cares off his reader by so often repetition off thes syly differences yet he will not once acknowledge the strenght off the argument which is not as he imagineth off like but off the lesse to the more For if there owght to be such diligence and continuance off watch for thinges off so small valew how much greater owght yt to be for those which are bowght with the precious bloud off the sonne of god If for those which haue sometimes truce with their ennemy much more for those which haue restles war. If against the hazard off this life onely much more against the daunger off euerlasting death Therefore to let the vntruth off some differences which he raketh vp vnworthy off confutation rest in the iudgement off the reader yf they were all true the argument remaineth still vnanswered For albeit the absence and substitution which the D. imagineth be allowed in the wordly watch yet it followeth not that the same is to be allowed off in the spirituall Nether helpeth yt which he alledgeth and that in an other place owt off Chrysostome that the sheep are here reasonable which are there vnreasonable Wherein first cometh to be obserued how all is fish with the Answ that cometh to net To briue the church from the election off her minister he alledged owt off Chrysostome that the people is nothing but a tumultuous stir compacted of folie Here where he would make more elbowroume for the Pastor they are reasonable sheep such as can feed themselues such as can prouide for them selues Thus he is content for aduantage both him self to play on both handes and to drawe his Doctor to the same But yf this reason be oftentimes in the reasonable sheep more ennemy then freind vnto the spirituall feeding if the setld sheep haue naturally more appetite to desire tast to discern and meanes to enioy their conuenient feeding then thes reasonable haue for theirs then this sentence off Chrysostome helpeth not And yt may peraduenture seem to smell off the smoke of free will and off the naturall power of man whereoff he is often too lowd a preacher Likewise that which he bringeth off the difference off the temporall meat soone digested and off the spirituall which continueth for euer so oft repeted and of that no man can take the sheep off God owt of his hand is ashamefull abuse off the holy scripture For to let paâ— how many waies this feeding is through the malice off the deuill and corruption off mennes natures ether clean taken away or turned to the hurt off the hearers likewise not to stand in that the Pastor knoweth not what time the Lord calleth effectually and gyueth that meat that neuer consumeth to those which are vnder his charge which ought to kepe him in a continuall exercise off his function and wayting for that howre when the Lord will towch their heartes I say not to stand vpon thes the D. should haue knowne that as the Lord declareth that none can take them owt off his hand so he hath disposed off the meanes whereby he will hould them which is the ministry off his word And as he sheweth the vertue of the word in the heartes of those which are effectually called to be perpetuall so he ordeineth yâ— should haue that perpetuite by that meanes off preaching whereby it first took root In watering that which is planted feeding first with milk then with whole meat them which are once conceyued by the immortall seed of the word preached vntill such time as they come to their perfect growght and stature off the full age off Christ Ad hereunto that thes places applied vnto the vse the D. putteth them serue to proue that preaching off the word is needles amoÌ„gest those which haue belieued and aswell that the pastor may be away without any deputy as with one For if the residence off the Pastor may be lesse because the sheep off God can not fall from their calling and because the spirituall food which they haue once tasted of endureth to life the same comming to passe vvithowt any further instruction yt followeth by the D. reason that they may be vvithout all ministry off the word And iff this may diminish the continuall residence off the Pastor
vse vnlawfull And especially in the tenth chapter he confuteth the verie selfe same reason which the A. towieth so roundlie with in this place which was that for so muche as the eatinge at the Idolles feast was but an owtward thing and went no farther then to the bellie therfore it was indifferent to be vsed or left at a mans discretion So the place then the which their is none stronger in the whole bodie off the Scripture to bind and kepe in the lauishe vse off Christian libertie that the A callendgeth for the enlarging of it betonde the boundes that God hathe set in his word And wheras he saith that S. Paule declareth their contentions which seperate them selues from the church for externall thinges S. Paule maketh no mention there either off contention or diuision from the church neither in deed they which abused then their libertie contended withe the weaker but contemned them Also off deuiding them selues from the church in that place is not a worde who soeuer will reade those places with a litle diligence shall easely perceiue that this is the matter which the Apostle giueth owt in that place As touching externall thinges for which the church of Christ may not contend they are suche as there being no commaundement of God directlie to vse them or not to vse them are left in the discretion of the faithful to be ordered the most to Godes glorie and edifiyng one off an other therfore as I thinke termed off learned writers externall for that they come not vnto the conscience nor bind not yt For otherwise that difference off externall and internall thinges is not sufficient to giue to vnderstand which are thinges indifferent or vnindifferent For neither are all externall thinges left to our discretion as I haue shewed and there are some internall thinges as off certeine inward thowghtes and opinions which are not imputed vnto vs for synne whether side soeuer we thinke or iudge of them As if I thinke in my selfe that there was neuer suche a Hector or Achilles or troye as is described off Homere and virgill I sinne not and if I thincke there was neither is that imputed vnto me for synne But these thinges which be in controuersie seing we offer to proue them commaunded and necessarie by the word off God how commeth it to passe that yow lashe owt so manie places owt off Bullinger and Zuinglius against those which trouble the church for indifferent thinges as thowghe yow had alreadie gotteÌ„ that which yow confesse by and by to be in triall that these things which we demaund are not necessarie What order of iudgement is this first to giue iudgement or euer the cause be heard iff yow will needes be bothe partie and Iudge at least yow should haue saued these vntill yow haue as yow promised shewed the vntreweth off our cause And therfore hereafter as often as yow doo importunatelie and vnstill fully heape so many places togither yow shall haue for answere â— plaine blancke To the 16. sect pa. 14. WHether yow haue either scripture or godlie learned author for your warrant in your assertions partely hath bene alreadie shewed and more shall appeare But yow must learne that the part of a faithfull teacher in the church of god is neither to propound any thing to the church neither to reiecte that which is propounded by other off credit off any godlie learned zelous man And althowghe this be to much yet that which he writethe in the 200. pag. is to farr owt of al square Wher he affirmeth that the argument off authoritie whether owt off the Scriptures or owt off the interpretors off the Scripturrs is the best reason that can be browght in diuinitie To bothe I will answere here in the beginninge that the reader may haue wherewithe he maye beware and know how to estenie bothe his and our proufes And first of all seing the Apostle teacheth Timothie that the Scripture inspired by the holie goste is the onelie rule for the minister which he calleth the man off god either to establishe or ouerthrowe what soeuer maye fall in question in the churche And S. Peter saith that who soeuer speaketh in the churche must speake as the wordes of god And seing all the godlie zelous learned men in the world are not able to authorise or displace any doctrine in the churche withowt the word of god I leaue it to be considered how dauÌ„gerouslye he mainteineth his answere to be good for that it hathe ground either of the word of god or the iudgement of some godlie iearned man and let it be waied whether this be to set vp an other Doctor in the church then Moses or our sauiour Christ Touchinge that the authoritie off the Scripture in diuine matters owght to preuaile I willinglie graunte but that the argument off the authoritie of men whiche haue interpreted the Scriptures is the beste reason in controuersies off diuinitie but off the Papistes whose strongest towers are in the testimonies off the Doctors was neuer hard off And thowghe there be nothing more Papistical then this assertion yet the doctor holding the name and profession of the gospell maye to the vtter subuersion off it cause this to be printed and flie abroade And that the authoritie off learned men should be the best proufe in diuine matters hathe more absurdities in yt then yt hathe wordes For first their authoritie is here set in the same ranke withe the authoritie off the Scripture in that as the authoritie off the Scripturr so it also is set in the superlatiue degree off the best proufe Then their authoritie being preferred vnto all reasons is preferred vnto the reasons drawen owt off the Scripture which in euerie diuinitie cause almoste besides the authoritie are diuerse drawen off the causes and off the effectes c. Thirdlie yt ys absurd to perferr the authoritie of any man which ys onelie his bare affirmation vnto his one reason and discours And seing the ende off proufes in controuersies off diuinitye is that faythe maye be engendred in mindes whiche onelye can be grounded on the worde off God what a miserable yea what â— cursed faith shall that be that is hanged off the authoritâ—â— off men which be they neuer so learned yet are they because they be men Lyers suche as deceyue and be deceyued And wheras he saithe that an Argument off authoritie hathe an other weight in our profession then yt hathe in humane sciences I confesse it hathe so iff the authoritie off the Scripture bee consydered But as for the authoritie off men for the which cause he alledgeth this yâ— is farr otherwise For yff the authoritie off man in humane sciences and in mens matters be off small force off how how muche lesse force owght yt to be in Godes matters yt is clene contrarie therfore to that the D. sayth For althoughe that Kinde off argument off the authoritie off men is Good neither in humane nor diuine science yet
off the Scriptures then expressed in the vvordes off the Scripture Here the answerer may lerne that certaine off the cheiff pillers off our Religion by the Iudgement off this councell are not expressed in the worde off God and yet notwithstanding bothe conteined in the worde off God and commaunded to be beleued And where he saithe that he couÌ„ntethe that expressed in the scripture when yt is either in manifest wordes conteined or theroff gathe red by necessary collection I answer that I suppose that there was neuer writer holie nor prophane that euer spake so and that yt byddethe defiance bothe to de vinitie and humanitie being forged as yt is to be feared contrary to his owne knowledge onely that he might giue some colour vnto that absurdytie which he woulde so gladlye fasten on me I saie that it is against his owne knowledge forasmuche as in his former booke and euen in the nexte diuision which is in the 78 page off this his later booke he confessethe this difference off being expressed in the worde and gathered off it which is the same in effecte which I haue saide For he saithe that nothing owght to be tollerated in the churche ' c. onles yt be expresly conteined in the worde off god or maye manifestly therof be gathered Here he plainely opposeth as member off one diuision expressely conteined and manifestly gathered now in this later booke cleane contrarily he maketh gathered to be a part of expressed And in an other place off his former booke as it appeareth in the 24. page off his booke he saithe and none off these circumstances are commaunded in the scripture or by necessarie collection theroff may be gathered Where he supposeth some thinge necessarie to saluation which is not commaunded namely which may be necessarylie gathered of the scripture And iff those wordes commaunded in the scriptures which are generall will not conteine al that which is necessary as his diuision teacheth how much les will thes wordes expressed in the scriptures compas them and iff commaunded and forbidden be all one with expressed as he here affirmeth then did he absurdely to make gathered off the scriptures to be an opposite member vnto commaunded That which I sayed off the argument off authoritie off a man to be neither good affirmatiuely nor negatiuely farther then to induce thereader into somelikinge or mislikinge and not to haue force to compell is apparaunt vnto al which haue any sparcke of iudgement That which is brougâ— out off Aristotle is to no purpose and it maketh also against the A. Forasmuche as where Aristotle saithe that credite is to be giuen to him that is cunninge he speaketh off thinges which haue a likelihoode and may be disputed off on bothe sydes and not of thinges which are to be receiued without gainesaying And I merueile that the A. will not see that amongest men the cunningest in any profession haue in diuerse thinges bene off those which followed them iustly founde fauls with And if he will bothe sticke to Aristotle and interpretâ— him as he dothe that a man ought to beleue euerie one in that as to and profession where in he is conninge then euerie learned Deuine in his profession is to be beleued whatsoeuer he saithe Which beinge absurd and seinge it hathe bene before shewed that an argumeÌ„t of the authoritie of maÌ„ affirmatiuely is not good let vs holde that for somuche as maÌ„ caÌ„not come through his infirmitie vnto the perfectioÌ„ of any thinge which reason being assigned of me is vntouched of the A. and forasmuche as the giftes off god are giuen in measure and not in perfection that an argument off â—he authoritie off man can not enforcevs and that it is proper vnto the Aposties and Prophetes whom the Lorde had chosen to be his notaries and whose handes he helds continually to be without the hazarde off errour To the places which I alledged owte off the worde off god to proue that an argument drawne of the authoritie off the scripture negatiuely is good he answereth that the examples which I bringe be of thinges of great importance and forbidden in other places of the Scripture I graunt they are so and that maketh much against hym for that the Lorde hauinge this aduantage against the Israelites off charginge them that they had doone contrarie vnto his commaundement chose rather to saye after this sorte that they had doone that vvhich he had not commaunded therby to teache his to hange vppon his mowthe And the answerer owght to haue considered that the reason is generall whiche the prophetes vse which otherwise shoulde be no reason at all And it maye be shewed that the same manner off argument hathe bene vsed in thinges which are not off the substance off saluacion or damnation and wheroff there was no commaundement to the contrary In Iosuah the children of Israell are charged by the Prophete that they asked not counsaile off the mouthe off the lorde when they entred into couenant with the Gabeonites and yet that couenant was not made contrarie vnto anie comÌ„aundemeÌ„t of god For howsoeuer yt seemeth to some that vpon the wordes off Moses they owght to haue bene put to deathe being of those nations which dwelte in the inheritaunce off the people off god yet iff yt be considered what the causes were why they might not enter in to league with them which was lest they dwellinge amoÌ„gest them shoulde drawe them to a false worship of god yt will not be harde to vnderstande but that withe condition off yelding themselues bothe to the subiection of the Iewes and to their institution in the Religion of god as thes did they might be receiued There was in deede difference betweene these nations which dwelled in the lande off the inheritaunce off the children of Israel and which dwelt rounde abowte them For where the Iewes might make league with the nations rounde abowte them withowt anie their submission vnto Religion they coulde not doo so with the Cananites c. And where in other nations after peace refused the children off Israell hauing taken a cytie owght to kepe a liue women and children in these ether resistinge them or not submitting themselues vnto the seruice of god it was not lawful to spare ether wemeÌ„ or children But that it was simplie vnlawful for theÌ„ to make league with them vvith any condition I thinke yt can not be shewed for theÌ„ Iosue aÌ„d the princes shoulde haue doone euil to haue kepte their othe with them after they had vnderstanded their frawde cosidering that all othes made againste the comÌ„aundement of god are to be brokeÌ„ And if it be saide that Iosue and the princes did euil in keping their othe the approbation off that facte is apparant in an other place where the vengeance for the lorde fell vppon all Israell by famyn and vpon the housse off Saul particulerly by executing those off his familie because the gabeonites had bene coÌ„trary to the tenure of the
because contemners are not Idolaters This is his ordinary faulte that he can not vnderstande that iff an Idolater owght to die miche more a contemner of the worde For contempte althowghe yt be not in an action which doothe vtterly ouerturne the seruice of God as Idolatrie but in one which staineth or cracketh yt onely as is the breache off the Sabbothe is yet shewed to be so displeasante vnto the lorde and so detestable that that which off yt selfe was not deadly onely by this circumstance of contempte was punished with presente deathe which may appeare in him that gathered stickes on the Sabothe daye The breache off the sabothe daie was not simplie punishable by deathe as Idolatrie was myche les so small a breache by the gathering off a fewe stickes yet because yt was doone as the scripture saithe in a highe hande that is to saie proudly and contemptuouslie the lorde commaunded that he shoulde be put to deathe and setteth that downe for a generalle lawe How myche more then shall he which despisethe the worde off God which is the rule off the whole bodie off the seruice off God and off that trew reste From our owne workes and from sinne whereoff that bodelye reste was a figure be punished withe deathe And iff because the lawe doothe not saie in thus many wordes that a contemner shall die yt be not lawfull to conclude that he owght to be put to deathe what wil the answerer saie vnto the writer vnto the hebrues which saithe that he that despisethe the lawe off Moses vnder two or three witnesses was put to deathe withowt mercie For by those wordes yt appearethe not onely that a contemner of the lawe off Moses owght by the lawe to die which is that which I sett downe but also that the writer vpon thâ—â— and suche like places as I haue here alledged gathered that whiche is no where in the lawe found in the same wordes wherin he vttereth that sentence Touching the place off Deutronomy which he saithe is onely vnderstaÌ„ded off false witnesse yt is apparaÌ„t that althowghe yt folowe immediatly the lawe off puttinge a false witnesse to deathe yet it is a generall sentence and hathe regarde vnto all the crimes which are capitall for iff false witnesses be put to deathe and Idolaters or contemners remaine how is the lande purged off the euills whiche drawe the wrathe off God vpon yt or how is a terror stricken into the reste wherby they may be kepte from the infection off that synne And if no punishement but deathe be hable to giue a sounde full enoughe to stricke a sufficiente terror of the synne off false witnes in suche a case how myche more ys yt needefull that there be as brymme and as audible a punishement against Idolaters and contemners of the worde to the ingendring of that feare in others wherby the reste maye be kepte in the feare and trewe worship off the lorde The place off the Chronicles is not answered for yt is more generall then the A. taketh yt and is an exposition off the lawe For where the lawe saithe that he that seruethe straunge Gods shall die this place saithe that he shall die vvhich seekethe not the lorde wher in are comprehended not onely Idolaters but Atheistes and mockers and contemners off God which is that which I had to proue As for that he asketh off the perpetuite off thes lawes yt is afterwarde spoken off In the ende he findeth faulte that I saying there are other punishementes for suche as neglecte the worde of God according to the faulte doo nether tell what they are nor where they be to be founde I thowght that the mowthe of his vnderstanding had not bene so narrowe but yt coulde easely comprehende that if contempte be by the vvorde off God to be punished by deathe that the neglecte off yt owght not to escape the ciuile punishement either in bodie or Godes c. Why I did not recken them vpp I assigned sufficiente cause in that the varying according to the quantitie off the faulte more or les coulde not be sett downe And iff he will see in generall what punishement the lawe of God aloweth of in such cases he may reade in Esra Where beside the punishement off deathe againste the transgressors off the lawe there be also appointed banishement losse of Good or imprisonement as the qualitie off the faute required And if he saye that that vvas doone by the authoritie not off the lawe of God but of a heathen prince the answer is easie that yt is very like that the commission given to Esra and authorised by the kinge vvas drawne by Esra vvhich vvas a cunninge scribe in the lawe of god At the lefte yt is manifeste that he bothe accepted that and amongeste other thinges gaue God thanckes for yt which he wolde neuer haue doone oneles â—t had bene a Good interpetation off the lawe in that behalffe considering that euen the ciuill and politike lawes Wherby the Iewes were theÌ„ and in Iurie especially gouerned â–ª ought to be no other then those which the lorde had prescribed in the lawe And thus let yt be Iudged what Good cause I had to aske vvhat vvas become off the A. iudgement vvhen he set dovvne that there is no Discipline appointed â—n the worde off God for those which shall contemne the worde off god and common praiers Diuision 7. pag. 91. THe answerer saide that there was not one worde in the scripture off pulpites or off sytting at the communion in a worde I shewed that ther was And where he saithe the pulpit was placed in open streete That vvas because off their dwelling in tentes the feaste vvheroff they celebrated For otherwise yt appeareth that suche a highe place in the temple owte off the vvhich the voice off him vvhich spake might be hearde vvas ordinary The reason off calling the doctrine of Moses the chaire of Moses by a metonumie off the subiecte For the adiuncte I will leue to the reader to iudge of for my iudgement off them I saide that they are not lightly to be chaunged and he dispurethe against me as if I had saide that yt were not lawfull to chaunge thes vppon any occasion And beside this disputing againste his owne phansie and not against my vvordes he hathe violently broken into the question off reading and interpreting the vvorde off God vvithowt any the leste occasion giuen therof and hathe also shamefully corrupted the place off Nehemias as shall be seene in the proper place 8. Diuision pag. 92. Here he accusethe me of falsifying his wordes whiche haue charged him vvith saying that yt ys an indifferent thinge to preache the worde of God in churches or howses priuately or publikely wherin he still vttereth his forheade harder then any steele For thes being his owne wordes that the scripture speaketh not a worde of preaching or baptizing openly or priuately at home or in the church doothe he not saye
aduantage considering that bothe the ceremonies are for a greate parte naught and the opinion off the necessitie off them a greate deale wors And Ieromes wordes also in tying the later churches vnto the customes off the ancient which are not against faith albeit they be smoothed by translatinge praesertim namely and with his exposition of matters off faith yet euen as they are set downe off him ouerthrowe the churches libertie in thinges indifferent For althowgh they should be inconuenient and vncomely yet the matter off inconuenience and vncomelines being by the Ans no matter off faith the churche must still be clogged with them nether can it by that rule shake them off There are a fourthe sorte of places owte of the aunciēte fathers wherin he putteth the greateste confidence and vpon which he hathe laide greateste weight and therfore by handes set ouer againste them moueth the reader to laie sure hould on them Thes places drawne owte off Ambrose vppon the Ephes and of Tertull de virginibus velandis that of Ambrose being as hathe bene shewed very corrupte is also a conterfaite as shall after be noted The other off Tertull is a flat and a plaine Montaniste yt is not vnknowne that Montanus helde that there was no sufficient instruction giuen by the Apostles vnto the churche but that there were onely certeine principles off Religion giuen by them being vnperfect and were afterwarde to be finished and polished by the conforter whiche himselfe did forge This poison Tertullian hauing druncke he lefte the Sauour off yt in diuers places but in no place more brimly then in this which maye appeare by the comparisons he vseth off likening the churche off God in the Apostels time vnto a tree whose fruicte was not blomed and vnto one which is in his base age and the churches after the Apostels times throwghe reuelatiōs suche as he imaginethe the Apostels were not hable to beare allwaies marching forward towardes a greater ripenes in fruicte and perfection in age And if the D. had bene a litle awakened he might haue smelt the fraude euen in thes wordes which he hathe bene ab vsed by For when he imagineth a nother rule off conuersatiō and leading of liffe of a Chirstian then that which hathe bene giuen he might haue iustly suspected the sentence seing the rule off conuersation comprehended in the commaundementes is vnchangeable And when he addeth that that should be doone by the grace off God receiuing increase dailie vnto the ende he did not obscurely touche the head off his error which is that there shall be still vnto the worldes ende greater graces off the spirite off God giuen to the churche generally then hathe bene before in the Apostels tymes Wherbie appeareth that the places which the A. will haue the reader laye so faste houlde of are thornes not to be once touched withowte a hedging gloue in one hande and a hatche◠in the other We willingly subscribe vnto the Iudgement off M. Caluin alledged here And where the Ans woulde make peraduēture the reader beleue that by the wordes off pollicie and gouernement lefte to the iudgement off the church Caluin meaneth to make thes pointes in cōtrouersie at the churches disposition it shall appeare bothe by his seuerall sentences of thes thinges that he holdethe them vnchangeable and by the exposition off M Beza his wordes the same in effect with thes off Maister Caluin which cometh after to be considered It remaineth that seing the answerer woulde oppresse vs with the authoritie off the fathers We consider whether there can be any fitter places browght for the maintenance off the Admonition then the A. hathe alledged for him Augustin VVhether yt be questiō off Christe or vvhethet yt be question off his churche or off vvhat thinge soeuer the question be off I say not yf vve but iff an angel from heauen shal tel vs any thinge beside that yovv haue receiued in the scriptures vnder the lavv and the gospell let hym be accursed And lest the Answ should restreine this generall saying vnto the doctrine of the gospell so that he woulde therby shut owte the discipline let him heare what Cyprian saithe The Christian religion saithe he shall fynde that ovvte off this scripture rules off all doctrines haue spronge and that from hence doothe springe and hether doothe returne vvhatsoeuer the Ecclesiasticall discipline doothe conteine And euen Tertull himselffe before he was imbrued with this heresie off Montanus giueth testimonie vnto the discipline in thes wordes VVe maye not giue our selues this liberty to bringe in any thinge off our vvill nor choose any thinge that other men bringe in off their vvill vve haue the Apostels for autors vvhich them selues brought nothing off their ovvne vvill but the discipline vvhich they receiued of Christe they deliuered faithfully vnto the people And if the sentence were any thinge worthe which he browght in towching the discipline owt off Tertull yt maketh against him For in that he will haue that correction off the discipline to haue the authoritie of the holy goste speaking in his fantastical cōforter he declareth that it is not a thinge which hangeth vpon the will of mortal mē And that in indifferēt thinges it is not enowghe that they be not againste the worde but that they be accordīg to the worde yt may appeare by other places Wherehe saieth that vvhat soeuer pleasethe not the lorde displeaseth him and vvithe hurte is receiued And in another place he saithe that the scripture denieth that vvhiche yt noteth not And to come yet neerer where he disputeth against the wearing of crowne or garland which is indifferent off it selfe to those which obiecting asked vvhere the scripture saithe that a man might not vveare a crovvne he anwereth by asking vvhere the scripture saithe that they may vve are And vnto thē replying that yt is permitted vvhich is not for bidden he answereth that yt is forbidden vvhich is not permitted Whereby appeareth that the argument off the scriptures negatiuely holdeth not onely in the doctrine and Ecclesiasticall discipline but euen in matters arbitrarie and variable by the aduise off the church Where it is not enoughe that they be not forbidden vnlesse there be some word which dooth permit the vse of them yt is not enoughe that the scripture speaketh not against them vnlesse it speake for them and finally where yt displeaseth the Lorde which pleasethe hym not one must off necessitie haue the worde off his mouthe to declare his pleasure Whether I commonly vse to propounde thinges in controuersie in bare affirmacions or denials withowt reason and whether yowe applie the scriptures better then I and howe true yt is that yowe haue in yower former booke alledged more scriptures then I did in mine all which thinges this glosse affirmeth I leaue yt to the Iudgement off the reader Cap. 3. Diuision 1. pag. 100. IN the first whole page there is nothing to be answered yt being shewed
that yt is not our question which the A. dooth so shamefully affirme whether the scripture haue expressed all externall ceremonies c. In the next page vnto me shewing that the place off August to Casulanus is against hym for that where he would proue that certein thinges are in the churches power the wordes which he alledgeth say that the decrees of the forefathers and coustomes off the people off God are to be obserued tying the church to the decrees and coustomes off those which went before he answereth that August giueth a rule vnto priuate men and not vnto the church Wherein he condemneth him self off hauing alledged that sentence cleane beside the cause For it is manifest by the wordes immediatly goinge before that he alledged it to proue the autoritie off the church in thinges indifferent neither can yt in any other respect haue any bonde with that which he pretendeth to proue And nowe that yt is shewed howe vnfitly the place is alledged he shifteth his footing and in steade off a rule towchinge the church he maketh yt a rule for priuate men and in steade off shewing the libertie off the church he sheweth the bondage that a priuate man is tyed by Where I conclude against hym off that sentence off Augustine that we ought to followe the coustomes and orders off the Apostels and off the primatiue churches seing yt ys certein that they were our forefathers and the people off God and that we owght not to followe the Papistes which are neither the people off God nor our forefathers to the first off folowinge the Apostels he saith there were certeine thinges conuenient onely for their tymes which are not to be folowed Wherein onlesse he meane those thinges which are in controuersie yt is nothing to the pourpose and iff he meane them yt is a manifest begging off that which is in demaunde Vnto the seconde point off not taking the Papistes coustomes and decres he referreth me to other places Where notwithstanding he neuer answereth this argument off Augustin and so in pretence off a fitter place he hath taken a longer day Where he noteth me of ignorance in that I saide I could oppose Ignatius and Tertull vnto August and Ambrose towchinge the fast vppon the Lordes day saying that there is no difference betweene them th one part speaking off the Saturday the other off the Sonday I am contented to beare his charge off ignorance But is there any man so forsaken off all not learninge onely but common reason which dooth not vnderstand that thes propositions differ and fight amongest them selues yt ys a detestable thinge to fast on the Lordes day which is the Iudgement off Ignatius and Tertull and yt is lavvfull to fast on the Lordes day Which is the Iudgement off Augustine set downe off him selffe And when Ambrose speaking not onely off the Sabbothe off the Iewes but generally willeth that vvhatsoeuer the coustome off the church be in that behalffe off fasting yt should be folovved dooth he not manifestly ouerthrowe his saying which saith to fast on the Lordes day is to kill the Lorde And euen in the case off the fast off the Iewes Sabbothe which Casulanus demaundeth counsaill off yt appeareth there was great disagrrement betweene the aunciēt fathers consideringe that in the Canons which are attributed vnto the Apostles it was ordeined that if one were founde to faste on the Lordes day or on the Sabbothe one onely exepted being a clerke he should be deposed and being a layman separated from the supper off the Lorde If I haue off ignorance set the fathers together by the eares as he saith let vs see howe with his knoweledge he can part them and set them at one in this behalffe That the fastes which were kept in the tymes off Ambrose and Augustine and longe before and their allowance especially off the Lentenne fastes Were corrupte and prophanations off the true vse off fast yf neede were as I haue in part so yt might in more wordes easely be shewed That the counsaile giuè for the keeping of those superstitious fastes might haue place in a straunger and priuate mā which owght not to stand towardes a Citisen and hym that hath charge yt is apparent And yet bothe thes the Answerer would beare downe with wordes and nothing but wordes Where the answ saying that he knoweth nothing in the place off Augustine or Ambrose towching fasting which may not be obserued withowt iust offense may be taken either to speake of the places which I alledged thouching merite off fasting or the places which him selffe alledged I will rather esteme vntill I knowe the contrary that he ment off those which he browght him selffe then together with the slipp off standing daies off fast he should also fall flat by opinion off the merite in fasting And so I would haue the reader to take him that there be no offense taken at this place so doubtfully left Where he bringeth me in concluding that because the auncient fathers erred in some thinges therfore they saide true in none my wordes cary no suche sense But for so muche as they erred and euen in this matter off fast which was in hande they owght to haue no further credite then their authoritie is waranted by the word off God and good reason and that therfore the Answ which presseth their bare autoritie withowte any warde off the word of God or assistance of good reason ether browght of him selfe or fetched from them bringeth an intollerable tyrannie into the church of god This I gaue to vnderstand which because he durst not in plaine wordes gaine saie he hathe tourned my wordes vnto another sense Cap. 3. Diuision 2 pag. 103. Augustine saithe that the feast of Easter Pentecoste c. are the statutes off the Apostles and commended to the churches and addeth that they are not conteined in the scripture Whereuppon I concluded that there is some thinge by this reckening commanded off God to be obserued not conteined in the scripture and consequently that there is no sufficient doctrine conteined in the scripture whereby we may be saued To this the Doct. answereth that yt is a pretie and sound collection I haue in deed for shortnes sake trussed that into twoo or three propositions which to put in full and comptere argumentes required a greater nomber Howbeit the soundenes off the collection is apparant to all which will open their eies And because the Ans will yeald no obedience vnto the truthe vnlesse she taking him by the collar haue her handē vppon his throat the foundenes off the collection shall thus appeare vnto him What soeuer was decreed off the Apostles and commended vnto the churches to be obserued is necessarie but some thinges by Aug. and the D. not conteined in the word off God were decreed and commended by the Apostels vnto the posteritie of the churches therfore some thinges by Aug. and the D. not conteined in the word of God is necessarye to be
obserued The first proposition is manifest considering that the statutes off the Apostels are the statutes off Christ the seconde is Augustines allowed off the D. and iff bothe these be true then the third must needes be This being thus gathered that which I added that therupō yt folowed that there is no sufficient doctrine conteined in the scriptures is thus concluded That which doothe not conteine all the will off God necessarie for vs to doo conteineth no sufficiente doctrine vnto saluation but the scripture by Aug and the d. conteinethe not all the will off God necessary for vs to doo therfore the scripture by Aug. and the d conteineth no sufficient doctrine vnto saluation The first proposition is manifest in that S. Paul to deliuer him selffe from the gilte off bloude towards the Ephes alledgeth that he had taught them all the will off God the second foloweth off that which Aug. and the d. allowe for iff there be some thing commanded off the Apostells not conteined in the worde off God that being necessarie yt must folowe that some necessarie thing for vs to doo is not conteined in the worde And where the A. saithe that neither Aug. nor he say that any thinge not conteined in the scripture is so necessarie that it may not be altered vpon iust occasion by suche as haue autoritie he can not mocke the worlde after that sorte withe faste and loose at his pleasure For if they be statutes off the Apostels and commended vnto the churches what autoritie is there vppon earthe whiche can displace them which the apostels haue placed and iff it be madnes as he saith afterward owte off Augustin not to obserue them or once to reason off them how can they take order in them And this answer is ouerthrowne by the wordes off Augustin whiche folow immediatly But other things saith he vvhich are varied by regions as that some faste vpon the sabbothe daye some doo not c. are at libertie to bo obserued neither is there any better rule to a Christian man in thes then to do as the churche doothe vvhere he comethe Where it is manifest that he opposeth the tradition off the Apostels and ther statutes receiued by tradition vnto those thinges whiche are in the churches power to ordeine and to those wherin yt ys safe for vs to applie our selfes to the order off the churche They being therfore in this opposed the one beinge in the churches power the other are nor the one being of that sorte that off which side soeuer the churche determine off them a man may saflie obey the other muste needes be off that sorte that if the churche woulde otherwise ordeine of them then the Apostels that a man may not safely obey And in the nexte sentence the thinges which he opposethe those statutes off the Apostels vnto he calleth indifferent and therby giueth to vnderstande that he tooke them for vnindifferent and hitherto perteineth that he alledgeth owt off August in Zuinglius name and is found in his booke against the Donatistes where yt ys said that they are to be holden as giuen by Apostolicall autoritie Which is more then if he had said giuen by the Apostels considering that there are thinges giuen off the Apostels as counsailes and left at the churches order to chaunge vppon occasion as were the traditions which M. Caluin speaketh off but they were neuer left vnto the church with an Apostolical autoritie Which autoritie is off the higheste nature and proceding from the higheste court that can be And that this was Augustines meaning appeareth manifestly by the place which I alledged out of his booke againste the donatistes Where he saithe that all those thinges vvhich the churche houldeth generally are to be houlden as praeceptes off the Apostels althovvghe they be not vvriten wherunto he answereth nothing And by that place the folie off the answerer wherby he woulde tune Augustin by maister Caluins wreste is more plainly discouered For where he wolde haue vs thinke that August vnderstood those traditions onely which perteine to order and politie that may be varied and not vnto doctrine yt is manifest that Augustin in that place saithe that the Apostels gaue commaundement tovvching the not rebaptising off those vvhiche vvere baptized by Heretikes and that the custome of off the churche in not rebaptizing vvhich vvas obiected against Cyprian had the beginning off the Apostels tradition Nowe I would knowe off the answerer whether he dare saye that this iudgement off rebaptizing be off traditions which may be chaunged or whether there can be any iust cawse wherefore this may be altered And if he dare not saye this then let him confesse his faut and not seeke to make vp his breaches by sutche vntempered morter Where I saye that thereby there is a gate opened vnto the the Papistes to bring in vnder the colour off traditions all their beggery he answereth that the Papistes are rather confuted by this meanes considering that the Pope hath nether at all tymes nor in all places bene receiued Where to let pas that to helpe him selfe he addeth at all times which is not in Augustines rule he towcheth not the point off the cause For in that onely that it is saide that there be precepts off the Apostels vnto the church not cōteined in the word of God is pusshed at the strongest bulwarcke which the church hath to defend yt selfe against the Popishe beggerie and all other corruptions Which bullwarke is that whatsoeuer is commaunded of the Lorde vnto the church is conteined in the worde off god yff this be once shaken there is no sufficient resistance left vnto the church against this assaut For althoughe yt hath some great likelihood which hath bene generally and from the Apostels times receiued yet for somuche as yt is not vnpossible for the whole church to erre in some point and to haue taken vp or reteined off that which yt had before some thing not deliuered by the apostels it can be no sufficiēt bar to withstand the corruptions offred to be brought in by the Heretikes to saie that the church hath ether doon or not doon so and so sythēs the Apostels tymes And althoughe we might be assured that they are the precepts of the Apostels which haue bene so generally receyued yet the doore is not so close shut against corruptions as he pretendeth For this thing standing that there are cōmaundemēts giuen of the Apostels not cōteined in the word of god they may thrust in thinges which haue not had that generall and continuall obseruation For althowghe Aug. saie that they are the traditiōns of the Apostles which are generally receiued yet he dooth not saie that they onely are and the Heretikes whose corruptions should be repulsed in this respect that they haue not bene generally nor alwaies receiued might haue an easye replye that there is the same preiudice against certen off the commandementes off the Apostels committed to writing considering that
churche owght not to put forwarde any to the holy Ministery without good tryal off his sufficientie Then yt is vpholden off the wordes off the texte that twoo were set vpp and caused to stand before the congregation For after that sainct Peter had declared what maner off man he owght to bee which should fill vp the voide place off Iudas immediatly S. Luke sheweth that twoo were put vpp as if he shoulde saye consider whether thes he suche or no as ought to chosen and which agree with that which is required off him that must supplye this place The reason wheroff was for that all the men which where in the churche at that time were not capable off that function hauing by no lykelyhood bene with our sauiour Christe continually from the begininge off his preaching vntill the day off his ascension And vnles that S. Peter mente to subiect those vnto the tryall off the churche which were to be chosen why instructed he the churche and gaue a rule to seuer and trie them by After the churche agreed eyther by voice or by silence that they were suche as behoued S. Peter wente forwarde and conceiued a praier as followethe there in the texte And that this is the plaine and naturall order off that action he that hathe but one eye may easely see The scripture is shorte and in a few wordes comprehendeth many thinges and touchinge certein pointes off a storie leauethe other to be gathered off the diligent reader sometimes which was doone before by expressing that which was doone after other sometimes that which is doone after by expressing that which was doone before Whereoff yff neede were yt is not harde to shew diuers examples And theroff is that sentence so often vsed off the Hebrew Doctours 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Scripture stayeth yt selfe vpon or presumeth an vnderstanding reader withowt the vvhiche yt shall seme very vnsufficient that ys most perfect and vvithowt the which a greate portion off the vvorde of God ys loste And vvhere as yow saye that yt is certaine that there was no tryall because they were sufficiently knowne first yt appeareth not by any wordes in the texte that they were sufficiently knowē And considering that as yt comethe comōly to passe in a persequuted churche there were by al likelihood some lately come to the church they might be well vnknowne to thē althowghe they vvere well knowne to others Thē the questiō is not whether they vvere examined or no but vvether they vvere set vpp to be tried so that iff there vvere a proferr off tryall althowghe no tryall folowed the place ys aptly alledged For albeit they were knowne to the vvhole companie so that there needed no inquirie into their behauiour or other thinges vvhiche are in the compas off the churche to iudge of yet that ys no cause why they shoulde not be offered to the examinaciō Nether is yt reason that the knowne habylytie off some one or twoo shoulde breake an ordinary lawe in the churche off god And yow that haue serued your selfe more thē once or twyce vvithowt cause as shall appeare off the manner of ciuill elections to ouerthrowe the Ecclesiasticall might here by the consideration off them haue bene delyuered from this abusinge off yowr selfe and others Yow knowe in the election off followes and scolers where the lawe commaundethe an examination before the election althowghe the parties to be chosen be neuer so sufficient and there sufficientie neuer so well knowne to all to vvhō the choise belongethe yet the offer of themselues to be examined is so necessary that if that be not they cā by no meanes be chosen If therfore mans lawe in suche small elections hath suche force that yt will giue place to no mans excellencye or singularitie how muche more owght the lawe of God vvhich byddethe generally vvithout exception that they shoulde be tryed vvhich are promoted to the ministery in so greate and weighty an election to kepe her force Where yow say ther was no other cause off presenting them then that which is expressed in the text tell me what cause is expressed off presentinge them in the congregation surely none that I reade those two which I alledged in my replie are gathered but none is expressed So that yf there vvere no other cause off there presenting then that vvhich is expressed there shoulde be none at all and that action off the Apostles should be to no purpose What expresse wordes are there in the texte contrary to this tryall or at the lest offer off triall the vvordes shoulde haue bene noted the meaning shoulde haue bene beaten owte where vve neede your helpe there you forsake vs vvhere the meaning is cleare and vvithout controuersie there you trouble your selfe and vs boothe Yf yt be a rule to be folowed yt must be followed wholy saith the answere This is very definitiuely and magistrally said and being a dangerous error as that vvhich tendeth to the ouerthrowe of the cheifest heads of Christian religion is notwithstanding farced with scoffing questions in derision off the truthe I neuer learned nor I doo not vse to add or take away from the word off God I expounde the scripture and gather off it vvhich is not to add and in saying that something is not to be follovved off vs I take nothing away for I confesse yt to be so as the storie reporteh And althoughe that parte be no example to follow yet euen now and to the ende yt conteinethe a profitable doctrine But if I take away from the scripture because I say that some Parte of that action is not to be follovved you do muche more that saye nothing theroff ys to be followed I distinguishe beweēne that which was for a tyme and that which is perpetual and to distinguishe is not to dismember Al the reuelations I haue are owt off the reueled worde off God I knowe that this parte off this action touching the examination ys to be followed because yt is confermed by other places off the scripture thother not so for that yt hathe not the like confirmacion This spirite off slumber whearwithe the lorde hathe striken yowe in that yowe say that if a rule be to be followed yt is to be obserued wholely shall better appeare when I come to yower answer of that which is writen in the 51. and 112. pages of my former booke where this is handled No doubte saith he this is an extraordinary example As Archidamus said to his son̄e beinge to venterowse and boldhardy either put to more strēght or take avvaie some of this courage so I must admonishe yow that either yow woulde come stronger withe argumētes or els goo softlier to thes doctoral determinatiōs Is yt without all doubte that all thinges are here extraordinary nothing of necessitie to be followed For so yow say when yow will not haue yt followed in other parte because some one is not to be followed What is yt not necessary
great liberalitie But this aide which the church getteth by encrease off godlie and hable Ministers receiueth litle thanck But the hatred off this cause draue yow headlonge vpon them as your aduertismentes vvhich followe doo declare As there are some among them that fauour this cawse so there are some that like not off it And yet seing they haue ioined togither yea vvhich is verie straunge made great sute vnto the Bishops that they might of there owne charges prouide suche as in seruinge off them might discharge that vvhich the bishop hath charged him selfe with your suspition off spoilinge the church might haue had a fitter lighting place then vpon the Innes off courte Thus muche against your disordered suspition not altogether from my purpose for it shall serue to shew wherupon I conceiued so good hope of them and off other the gentrie off the realme vvhich haue in diuerse places made the same contribution Yf any haue forsaken the ministerie withowt iust cause they are giltie off a horrible fault but I see yow accounte them forsakers off the Ministerie vvhich yow haue thrust owt suche is your equitie to vvhipp them owt and for going owt also And if they hould any off your tenthes and would be counsailed by me they should yelde them into your handes least in beinge partaker off your non residencie they drink also off plages which belonge therto Wher yow saie I haue not answered in deede if your one mā be wise ād godly and the hūdreth fooles and wicked I haue said nothinge nor meane not now to doo being worthier to be hissed owt then to be answered Yow saie that the 16. Actes ▪ sheweth how well Timothy was thowght off a noble interpretation This is allwaies your fashion either to corrupte the places of the scripture or els to tell that which no man dowbteth of But for what cause dothe S. Luke tell that he was so well thowght of dothe he not shew in the nexte ver to be the same which I haue alledged And therfore Master Beza regardinge the meaninge of S. Luke addeth the word therfore declaringe for what cause that testimoniall was giuen This is your reason S. Luke sheweth how well Timothy was thowght off therfore yt is vntrew that S. Paul to cut of all occasion off euill speache receiued him not but vpon commenmendation off the brethren bothe in Listra and Iconium I doe not saie that S. Paul would not haue receiued him vnlesse that euerie singuler person had giuē testimonie vnto him vvhich was in those places but I shewed how circunspecte S. Paul was in takinge any into any part off the ministerie and how it is not to be thowght that he would haue vppon the Testimonie off one proceeded vnto any election seing that in one which he him selfe was not ignorant what he was to auoid the euill speache off some he was carefull to haue the testimonie off the church As it cā not be proued ▪ that he would not haue receiued him if all had not consemed therto so may it easely be shewed that if the most part had not liked of him he would not haue taken him For besides that it was against S. Paules maner to doo any thing off his owne priuate authoritie in the church off God it had not bene aduisedly done to haue procured the testimonie off the church for the admitting off him into his companie if the churche not consentinge he would haue taken him for that would haue bred a great flame off displeasure betwene the church and S. Paul and should haue bene alwaies shot in the mouthe off the aduersaries against the authoritie of Timothes ministerie yea off Paules also vnto whom he was ioyined for that he had receiued one disaproued of the Christians them selues All which he might by your iudgement easely haue auoided iff either he would haue rested in his owne knowledge off him or els haue addressed him selfe to some one for his testimonie ād not to haue hazarded the alienatiō of the church by com̄ittinge the allowāce of Tim. vnto their testimonial But mine argument is nothinge worthe because it is drawen off an acte off the Apostle Yf this be trew S. Luke was euil aduised to in title his booke the act or deedes of the apostles For it is as much in the ans lāguage as a booke of deedes which christiā mē are not boūd to followe ād yet it was not withowt cause that whē there are cōteined in that booke bothe the doctrine and deedes of the Apost S. Lu. as off the greater parte intitled his booke the deedes or actes of the apostles wherfore dothe he in the begin̄ing of that booke repeating the sum̄e of his gospell by that transition or passage make one bodie of them bothe and bind them as it were in one volume was it not to giue the same authoritie vnto the one a◠to the other to shew that the church had wanted so muche of a perfecte directiō as it wanted of that storie Wherfore dothe he in the begin̄inge shew that our Sau. Christ instructed thē with the cōmaundementes thowchinge his kingdome was it not to teache vs that whatsoeuer they did in buildīge of the church they did it not of there owne heades but by his authoritie And if a cōmanndemēt vnto them be not a commaundemēt vnto vs then haue we no word in the Scripture to warrant baptisme with For the commaundement of baptisinge was spoken to the Apostles onely withowt any further lymytation Fynally vvherfore dothe S. Luke set owt the Apostles fylled vvith the holye Goste Was yt onely to gyue credyte vnto there doctryne that yt should be beliued and not vnto there Actes that they should be folowed yes assuredlie vnto there acres that they should of euerie one according to his vocation where they maye be folowed For the further confirmation wheroff yt ys to be consydered what S. Paul vvrote vnto Tymothe Whom he instructynge how he should behaue hym selffe towardes the troublers off the church dothe not onely call him to the regard off his doctrine but also his conduite or maner off doing Wherby he meant to note his order and maner off doyng in the church off God and publykly for yt could be smally otherwise to the purpose off that vvherfore yt ys alledged Sanct Paules pryuate doynges could gyue Tymothy lytle instruction how he should behaue hym selfe towardes the troublers off the Church To the Phillippians also he callethe the Bishoppes Deacons and whole church both to doing off that which they heard and which they had sene in hym Yf therfore S. Paul will haue the churches followe that vvhich he did amongest them yt ys manifest that the Actes off the Apostles are rules for vs to followe And vnlesse this be admitted I would gladly learne off M. D. Where in all the scripture he can proue the imposition of handes which I think he will not denie to be necessarie And this is that vvhich M. Caluin doth flatly
affyrme that the example off the Apostles in layinge on of handes vpon hym which ys to be ordeined coun terualleth a commaundement and owght to be folowed And if where I haue said the doinges of the Apostles owght to be folowed in the gouernment of the churches he aske how I answere that that they did in especiall cases then is to followed vvhen suche cases fall those which they did ordinarily and generally to be ordinarily and generally followed Those thinges which they did in founding off churches and before they were established to be in life maner vsed those which they did when the churches were established to be in the same maner ordered And to enter yet further into this matter Where he saithe that the argument is nothing worth which is drawen of the facte of the Apostle by the same reason he also condemneth argumentes browght of the factes of our Sauiour Christ and muche more of all other holie men and Prophetes Wherof the scripture is full as when our Sau. Christ proueth that it was lawfull in some case to breake the corporall reste of the Sabothe by the example off Dauids eating of the shew bread As when he excused him selfe that he did not worke his miracles in Nazareth where he was nourished vp rather then in Capernaum and other places by the examples off Elias and Elizeus by which he tawght that a man may attempte nothing without a vocation all these argumentes if M. D. had had the answeringe of them he would as it semeth haue said vnto our sauiour Christ that they are nothing worth I graunt there be some actes of our Sauiour Christ and other godlie men in the scripture vvhich being commendable in them would not be so in vs they hauinge some either extraordinarie spirite or commaundement vvhich we haue not Off which sort Idowbte not but Maister Zuinglius mente this sentence which yow alleadge As would haue bene easely seene yf yow had quoted the place I think he hathe bene alledged ād quoted aboue fortie times before and neuer a sentēce that maketh either whot or coulde to the matters in controuersie or which might once prouoke me to look whether they were so or noo this onely place was somewhat materiall and here it is not quoted But to come againe to those extraordinarie factes I saie that as the spoilinge off the Egyptians by the Israelites at the commaundemēt off God and the killinge of Cosby and Zamry by Phinchas throwghe the inspiration off the spirite off God can not let vs from teachinge generally that theft is vnlawfull that the Magistrate only owght to punishe publike malefactors so those fewe Actes vvhich doon of our Sau. Christ the Apostles and other godlie men are not to be folowed off vs can not let vs to teache generally that there Godly deedes which lie in vs to doo owght to be followed And as I may reason notwithstanding those exāples that he is a thefe because he hath taken that vvhich an other hath labored for against his will and he is a murtherer because he hathe slaine a malefactor being no magistrate for that purpose so I may saie he dothe well for so our Sau. Christ did so did the patriarches and he dothe euill for our Sauiour Christ the Apostles the patriarches did otherwise in that case And he that shall denie this argument vvithowt shewinge some speciall and manifest reason Wherfore it was lawfull for the one to doo that vvhich was not for the other he is vnworthie to be a scholer in the diuinitie scooles much lesse Doctor Yf therfore the Ans would haue by any Good order put me from the possession of this place he should haue shewed that S. Paul of some speciall occasion which falleth not into our ministerie vsed this circumspection in taking suche a clowde off witnesses for the assurance off Timothies good behauior or that there is some generall rule and commaundement to the contrarie But that as he hathe not done so he can not doo there being no one stepp of any such either particular cause or generall rule either mentioned or to be gathered of that place or of any other scripture It must therfore be estemed that S. Paul did that of a generall equitie and common conuēience which owght to be vsed in such graue and weightie matters off the church Yea if M. D. Would haue a litle laid a syde his inordinate desyre off mainteining that which he hath once written he should haue founde iuster cause of this circumspection in our elections then in this For if S. Paul an Apostel endewed vvith suche a gift of discretion of spirites would not take Timothy vvhich had bene browght vpp from his cradell in the knowledge of the Scriptures and had liued in all commendation from his infancie Timothe I say whom he had now knowen as it may be verie probably shewed of some reasonable time into companye of his ministe rye withowt suche diligent circumspection how muche lesse may a Bishop in authoritie inferor vnto him in gifte of discerninge spirites not to be compared receyue into the mynistery vpon the Testymonie off one onelie a man vvhom he hathe not knowen before and vvhatsoeuer he be in knowledge of the word of God far behinde Timothy And yt is not to be let passe for further answere to that which ys alleadged owt of Zuinglius Of a deede or an example to make a lavv that yt hath bene shewed to haue bene the practise of all the Apostles at other tymes in there elections and therfore this is not of one facte to make a rule but off the continuull practise of the Apostles Moreouer by defense of receiuing at the testimony of one onely what doth he els then make as easie an entrance into the highest place off the church off God as a man off any calling and wisdome ioyned with yt would make into one of the least offices of his howse for surely if he haue any regarde vnto the good order of his howse and consider that the misbehauiour off his seruāte vvhom he vvill put in any trust reacheth vnto the dishonour of him selfe and his vvhole howshold he vvill neuer admit him vvhom he knoweth not vvithowt some one mans commendation off whom he is well assured But the law of God in this behalfe is most clere which to the deciding of a vveighty matter in dowbt requireth two witnesses and if it can be thre and namely where the iudgement is of bloude yt expresly forbiddeth that iudgement should passe vpon the Testimonye of one But in the iudgement of a minister where the question is of a great numbre of destruction of bodie and soule and that for euer shall it being dowbtfull be giuē vpō one mās testimonie how sufficient so euer he be Especially seing that there owght to be greater triall and more plentifull witnes in the churche matters thē in ciuil causes which may appeare further by that which S. Paul writeth vnto Tymothie Where he
and Doctors as thowghe it belōged vnto the churche and the churche had put yt ouer vnto them Yt is enoughe for me that the churches subscription was there and that not for a cyphre Therfore althowghe S. Luke for shortnes sake did call yt the decree off the Apostels and Elders yet S. Paule whiche gaue them to the churches and whiche in other places standeth so muche vppon the authoritie off the churches to stoppe the mowthe off the contentious did not by all likelihood omyt the authoritie off the churche to gyue them the more grace withe the churches vnto the whiche he delyuered them The Ans whiche will proue nothinge him selfe but off whome wee muste take all moste althinges at his bare worde hathe notwithstandinge a great grace in settinge me to proue all thinges be they neuer so manifeste Let him then vnderstande that this whiche he requirethe profe off is confirmed by the authoritie off maister Cal. and maister Bulling The manner off speache also is in Liuy where the consul is sayed to set vp an other consul into the place off him whiche was dead when he did yt not by his owne authoritie onely but by voices off the Senate and people Yf the Answ coulde haue firste gyuen his reader a drinke off the riuer off forgetfulnes to haue made him forgette what he owghte to proue peraduenture this talke off his mighte haue some ende but iff he carie in minde that he hathe to proue that almoste al ecclesiasticall writers doo affirme the word liftihg vp of handes to be vsed in the scriptures for the solemne manner off ordeining ministers by imposition off handes and not for the election by voices I say iff he cary this in minde he shall perceiue easely howe idle for the moste parte this talke is And verily all thes authorities here browghte are either vaine or directly againste him selffe or in sufficient to proue that whiche he vndertaketh For to what pourpose are here alledged two places owte off maister Caluin two Canons gyuē to the Apostels and the Testimonie off Ierome They proue that lftiing vp off handes is taken in ecclesiasticall writers for imposition off handes whiche is confessed by me in plaine wordes But to the perfourmance off your promise that almoste all the ecclesiasticall writers affirme that this worde is so taken in scripture yet there is not one syllable In this rancke also off idle testimonies is that whole section off maister Gualter For I confessed him to thincke that the word was so taken but yet so that withall he ioyneth the election off the people by voices Whiche the Answ woulde by that signification off the worde ouerthrowe So that all thes browght in off the D. looke another waie then he woulde haue them That the Canons attributed vnto the Apostels make not to proue the sole election off a bishoppe shall be discussed after here it is onely sufficiente to haue shewed that they make not to proue that whiche the Ans alledged them for Wherin I meruaile also what he meaneth to aske leaue of me that yt may be as lawfull for him to vse them as it is for me as if I had vsed them otherwise thē I owght I neuer vsed them as the naturall canons of the Apostels I haue shewed that they are not nor can not be theirs but as the Canōs off other Councels where amongest the bad there are founde some good And I neuer vsed them but where I confirmed by Testimonie off the worde off God that vvhich I bringe them witnesse for Therfore this phrase beinge vsed thrise or fowre times withowte all occasion argueth hym to be a vaine trifler whiche becawse he hathe nothing to answere gyueth hym selfe the bridle to forge and surmise all maner off vntrwthes And where by this preface yt semeth the man woulde haue stricken this matter as dead as a dore naile yet hauing leaue to vse them he hathe not so muche as once come neere vnto the matter ▪ onely he hathe gained some fewe lines to encrease his confused heape The next rancke is of those whiche are not onely not profytable but directly hurtefull vnto his cause In whiche number is the witnes off Maister Bull. that vvorde vvhich signifieth lifting vp of handes is so placed that vve may vnderstande either that they vvere chosen by voice off the people or ordeined by laying on off handes especially if he had added the fowre next wordes I thinke bothe vvere doone Wherby appearethe that Maister Bullingers opinion is that bothe the churches chose by voices and the Apostels laied on their handes which directly ouerthrowethe the Answ For his answer is suche that onles the worde doo onely signifie there the ceremonie off imposition off handes and not the election by voices yt goethe to the grownd therfore Maister Bulling sayinge that boothe were doone in this place there coulde be no flatter testimonie againste hym then yt And where he cyteth Maister Bullinger that he is elected by common suffrages off the People vvhiche is chosen by the testimonie off the beste I knowe good reader thow merueileste not that it comethe owte off tyme for that is his ordenarie but doest thow not meruaile what misticall rethoricke hathe seperated so farr a sonder this sentence from the other whiche he before alledged Leue to meruaile there is no greate arte in it but there is some crafte For if thow gyue heed vnto him yt may appeare yt was onely to couer the trechery whiche he vsed in takinge bothe that whiche goethe before ād that whiche cometh after leuing quite owte those wordes by me alledged whiche stande in the myiddest off those two sentences marringe his whole marcket And becawse yt woulde haue to palpably appeared if he had doone yt in one and the same place he makethe thē to come as it were strangers owte off two seuerall countries that dwell harde together For the sentence it selfe what would he trowe yow conclude That the bishope muste haue the election yf it be not that I knowe not wherfore yt is browghte Yf he meane to vse yt therun to then muste off necessitie Maister Bullinger speake thus that he is elected by the commō suffrages off the people whiche is approued by the testimonie off the beste bishops Doe yow lawghe at thes thinges when the D. is in so good earneste Seinge he seeth that both the testimonie off the Scripture ād writers oulde and newe Papistes onely excepted gyue intereste off election vnto the people yet rather then yt shoulde fall from the bishopps he maketh a metamorphosis and change off the Bishoppes into the people The meaninge off Maister Bullinger if any coulde be so ignorāte as not to vnderstand is that the faithfull onely haue intereste in the election off the churche and that the Papistes haue not nor owghte not to haue to doo in it nether any other heretickes and scismatickes from the churche Whatsoeuer yt be yt can be by no means drawne to preiudice the
shoulde be mēte Therfore if yow had spared that cauil yow mighte haue bene cleare of two moe errors which yow are fallen into by affirminge partly that S. Luke by the worde lifting vp off handes signifieth the whole solemnitie of creatinge ministers which can not be true seinge he expresseth two other parts off yt whiche are praier and fastinge partly in affirminge that he dothe in the wordes off laying on off handes all waies vnderstande the bare layinge on off handes onely when as in two off those places whiche I haue alledged it maie appeare that by those wordes is noted not onely the puttinge on off handes but also the praiers whiche were made for the receiuinge off the giftes off the holie goste Which thinge expressed in an other place to haue bene done by Peter and Iohn we must esteme obserued at othertymes Yf I had not browghte the place off the Actes the A. had had nothinge to saie to that I alledged of Saint Lukes borowinge this phrase not off those which came many yeares after but of those which were before But seinge destitute off yowr owne yow are entred vppon my possession againste my will and so also that yow vvill thruste me owte let yt be sufficient that yow haue eased yowr selfe heere a vvhile I saie therfore that this place maketh againste yow in that this vvorde in that place signifieth not a layinge on off handes vppon the heades off the chosen but a chusinge by voices consideringe that wee reade plainly that he chose his Apostels by voice Let vs heare now how it maketh against vs Firste becawse the word is not there taken for liftinge vpp off handes but for appoinctinge and ordeining As who shoulde saie yt is not vsuall vnto the scripture and to all speaches by figure in one parte to note the whole ād therfore S. Luke by that one forme off election passed by the céremonie off liftinge vp off handes notethe this election whiche was made by voce off our Sauiour Christe yt maye be also applied vnto other electiōs wherin by goinge from one syde to another or by writinge his voice in a table the consente off the chuser is vttered So dothe the scripture by bondes and chaine vvhiche are particular kindes off restrainte note all manner off restraincte off libertie althowghe a man haue nether bondes nor chaine 's a bowte him So that that which is so often saide in the gospel simply off our Sauiour Christes chusing his Apostels S. Luke did here in figure not without greate grace vtter Where yow saie that by this means yt signifieth not to ordeine by suffrages in deede in this place yt can not consideringe that our Sauiour Christe was but one But vvhere yow vvoulde conclude therof that Paule and Barnabas by their voices onely chose the ministers and elders Yt is further a sunder then euer yow can sett together heere yow muste be admonished that where the moste off yowr witnesses did forsake yow before yow beheere forsaken off them all For there is neuer a one off the newe vvriters especially named of vs bothe but vppon that place off the Aces hathe in plaine wordes approued the election by the churche Secondly the person off our Sauiour Christe whiche chose with whome none mighte be ioined in commission and the person off the Apostels whiche coulde not be chosen of any but off God did sufficientlie off them selues withowte further addition argue the sole election off our Sauiour Christe But in the 14. Actes seinge nether the Apostels vvhiche did chuse vvere suche as mighte not be accompanied off the churche nor the Mynisters that were chosen off suche degree as mighte not likewise fall into the choise off the churche and consideringe also that all the elections off the ministerie spoken off before in whiche the Apostels had to doo vvere by consente of the churche yt is cleare that if S. Lukes meaninge had beene to tye this election as streighte vnto Pau. and Barn. as the other to our Sau. Christe he woulde haue put in vvordes vvhich mighte as clearly haue declared that meaninge in this as the circūstances of the persons doo in the other Thirdly if this worde whiche notethe the choise by voices shoulde be restreined vnto Paule and Barnabas then also the vvorde vvhich declareth that they praied shoulde onelye be restreined vnto them for as that is gyuē vnto them so is this Nowe if it be absurde to saie that in those publike praiers Paule and Barnabas onely praied yt is as absurde to saie that they onely chose and the same may be saide off fasting For that which followethe vvith fastinges is all one as if he had saide fasting sauinge onely that S. Luke for elegancy sake and to a voide the multitude of participles comminge so thicke turned the verbe into the nowne so that for so much as Paule and Barnabas did not onely faste but the churche also yt muste followe that they chose not onely but the churche vvith them Therfore as S. Luke in saying that Paule and Barnabas praied and fasted meaneth not that they praied and fasted onely but that they wente before the reste in gouerning those Ecclesiasticall actions euen so in sayinge that they chose by voices he meaneth not that they chose alone withowte the churche but that they guyded and directed the iudgementes off the churche Laste off all seinge that all the twelue to gether woulde not enterprise to doo any thinge off their priuate autoritie vvithowte consente of the churche muche les can yt be thowghte that Paule and Barnab woulde attempt yt Hereto make an end of this dispute I will answer that vvhich is brought off this vvord p. 163. And first I deny that euer I saide that this word by it selfe withowte ioininge any thinge vnto yt signifieth election off many by voices for yt can not signifie any thinge vnles yt be ioyned with somethinge These vvordes off the churches althowghe they declare of vvhome the election vvas made yet they are not added to note the manner of the election as the vvorde Act. 14. but to gyue credite vnto the embassadors vvith the churches vnto vvhich they wente that they mighte safely committe their monie vnto them for the behoufe of the churche off Ierusalem Therfore it is nothinge yow alledge that this addiciō off the churches had bene needles if the word liftinge vp off handes had signified off it selffe an election by voices For Sainte Paule shoulde not haue to the full aduanced their credite vvith the churches if he had giuen onely to vnderstande that they were chosen by voices of many considering that they were chosen not only by the voices of many men but by the voices off many churches Wheruppon I conclude that S. Luke Act. 14. vsed that word as the Grecians before him for electiō by suffrages and withal put him in minde that his certein and manifest thinges haue neither grownd to stand on nor light to shew them by
voice off the vvhole brother hood and by the iudgemente off those bishopps vvhich vvere presente and vvhich had vvritten vnto yovv off him c. Thus therforey may be reasoned that was the ordinance off God vvhiche Cyp. taught to haue bene practised by thos examples for he stil coupleth them together withe his doctrine giuē before and groūded owte of the booke of nūbers But he taught that in thes examples the people were not onely presente at the choise but also gaue their voices therfore it was Gods ordinance not onely that that the people shoulde be presente but also that they shoulde chuse And here yt is againe to be obserued that this is another off the popishe shiftes for vnto Luther whiche alledgeth that the people owghte to chuse there minister leste the churche shoulde despise or hathe him vvhich is thruste vppon it vvhilest it mighte not haue him whom yt desyred Pighius answereth that the meaninge off those wordes be that the people shoulde be presente and beare witnes and the same answer is made by other Papistes to other testimonies which are browghte This by the waie that it maie be knowen from whence the Ans prouision comethe Nowe to procede Where he saithe that the people had no voices in Eleazars election I aske him howe he prouethe that If he answer because it is not mentioned in the scripture he hathe answered hym selfe more then twentie times when he saieth that it is an euill argumente to reason negatiuely off the scriptures Let him now take this answer That there was no like necessitie off examininge Eleazars ministrie by voices as ther is off other ecclesiasticall electione forsomuche as he was chosen by the voice off God whiche coulde not be deceiued But Cyprian did well see that if the lorde vvoulde not haue the iudgemente off the churche passed by in those which he him selfe had chosen by his voice from heauen muche les vvoulde he haue any minister thruste vpon the churche againste her will in elections vvhich are made by men withowte suche speciall direction Nowe as this interpretation off the A. is directly againste the wordes off Cyprian directly againste his meaninge shewed forthe by practise and examples so dothe yt directly ouerthrowe the whole scope vvhiche Cyprian alledgeth those wordes for which is that he mighte therby vvithdrawe the churches from communicatinge with the ministerie of those vvhiche had fallen seinge they mighte bothe put them owte and chuse other in their places For if he mente the churche shoulde stande by to see vvho vvere chosen and to obiecte againste him if neede required albeit not thus muche was euer obserued of our bishops tel me who are they Cyprian mēt shoulde chuse magistrate there was none The eldershippe the D. dare not saie for he trembleth at the verie name of it I dare saie his meaninge is to gratifie the bishoppe withe this morsell but yt will choke him if he swallowe yt Yt is the porcion off a nomber and therfore if it coulde be caried from the churche It muste come vnto the bishops that dwell rounde abowte that churche where the election is to be made And if the election and depriuation by Cyprians minde be in their handes howe hathe the people powre to chuse and refuse For if they woulde they coulde neither depriue the presente incumbente nor depriuinge him chuse another Anye off thes thinges ouerthroweth Cyprians drifte and armeth the people withe replies againste his exhortacion namelie that they communicated withe their poluted minister becawse yt is not in them to depose him but in the Bishoppes rounde abowte yt is not in them to chuse another but in the Bishopps Therfore his reprehension and exhortation shoulde haue beene directed againste the bishopps and not againste them And so it is manifeste both by the wordes and whole drifte off Cyprian that his iudgemente was that by the ordinance off God in Ecclesiasticall elections the consente and iugemente off the churche is necessarie The Cuckoe is heere come againe for looke the D. booke and yow shal see ether the same wordes or at leste the same matter withowte any addition Which are heere in the 1. 2. 3. 4. sect off this diuis In the 164. and 165. pag. sect 1. 2. Yow haue yt set before yow almoste all againe This is not Colewortes twise but thrise sodden Yt behoueth that he imagine a great famine of learned writinges that dare thus abuse the cares and leysure off his reader Touching the variety of Electiōs which he citeth out of M. Caluin onles as vnnatural weomen doo their children conceiued in adultry he purpose to make awaie withe his cause I knowe not what he shulde meane to offer yt thus into the handes off her enemies For he writeth thus in that place alledged In oulde tyme ther vvas none receiued not so muche as in to the nomber off clerkes vvithovvte the consente off the people so that Cyprian doothe diligentlie excuse him selfe that he had appoincted Autelius a reader vvithovvte aduise off the churche And so rehersing Cyprians wordes after he addethe But becavvse in those smaller exercises there vvas no greate danger for that both they vvere in dailie tryall and the function vvas not greate the consente off the people ceased to be asked And by those small exercises yt muste needes be he meaneth the Acoluthes the Exorcistes and the Readers whiche maie appeare to haue beene in Cyprians tyme by his Epistles And maie yet better appeare wheras Maister Caluin shewinge the cause why the people was not so carefull in that behalfe off retaininge their righte saithe For there vvas none made subdeacon vvhich vnder that seueritie off discipline that vvas then had not gyuen longe experience off him selffe in the clerkshipp and after he vvas tried in the subdeaconshippe he vvas made deacon So that yt is manifeste that by the order off Clerkes there he meaneth those whiche were vnder the degree of a subdeacon He saith also that aftervvardes the people did permitte the iudgemente and choise off other orders likevvise vnto the bishope and elders excepte the bishoppricke or vvhē any nevve elders vvere appoincted where firste yt makethe directly againste yow that in times paste not so muche as a poore Exorciste or reader was chosen withowte the consente off the people Secondly that he saithe Cyprian did excuse him selfe vnto the people that he had chosen Aurelius implyinge therby that althowghe he had some reason to leade him to doo so yet he was in the peoples daunger Thirdly that yt was the peoples righte in that they permitted this powre vnto others Fourthly that this righte was giuē to the elders ād not to the bishop alone as yowe woulde haue yt Laste of all that bothe the choise of the bishoppe and elder remained in the powre off the people Wherfore yow vntrwly reporte when yow saie that the people committed the choise vnto the bishopes and elders excepte yt were in the election off the bishoppe
haue answered yt before There is nothinge so easie which is not harde to him that is vnwillinge And therfore the A as Salomons sluggard saith that the Lion whose delighte is in the foreste and in the wildernes is in the highe streat or in the burse that is to saie maketh difficulties wher none is And as this partly cometh of his vnwillingnes so diuers of thes questions if he doo not dissemble come of wante off knowledge not onely of the gouernemente of the churches nowe but off all aunciete tymes For he asketh who shall complaine off the faulte committed in the election to the churches by if the elders to vvhom that care especially apperteineth doo not others owght whō that disorder offendeth Ther needeth no callinge together and therfore no danger off tumulte disorder confusion charges partes takinge runninge vpp and downe losse off time offence quarels yt is enowghe that yt be doone by the eldership off the churches and if were needfull to haue the churches who le consente it might be doone in ordinarie meetinge for the seruice of god without anie of those things which the D. imagineth The churches maie admonishe by their seueral or cōmen letters emōgeste thē But aske me not who shall carie the letter what he shal haue for his paines whether he shal ride or goe a foote whiche yow might as well as those fonde questiōs which you haue moued It is meete the prouinciall Synodes be certeine and standinge as often also as maie be conueniently and it was ordeined as I thinke in one of the Africane Councels that their shoulde be at the leste twoo or three euery yeare So there shall be as spedie prouision off a pastor for the churche in suche cases off difference as now when they be without a pastor six whole monethes For the questions who shall summon the Synodes and in what place they shall be holden they perteine not to this questiō onles the A. will haue no Synodes at all for if he admitte them the sum̄oner and the place which are meete for the assemble generally and for the decidinge off all causes which fall into the consideracion off the Synod are meete also for this cause And where he asketh what if the prince doo not his dutie then yt is as if there vvere no godly magistrate then yt is vvith them as if suche a disorder shoulde happen vnder an vnchristian prince and then the people shall perishe in their sinnes but their bloud shall be required at his hand But still the A. seethe not how hee reasoneth againste hym selfe For if none of the bishoppes off the foresaide parishes none off the elders neither those bishoppes and elders vvhich emongeste the reste and in the name off all are chosen as the flowres oute of the prouince ād sente to the Synode nor the magistrate I saie if none off all thes nor all thes together doo their dutie how shall we thinke that the bishopp vvill doo it And iff hee doo yt in appoinctinge a fitt bishopp for the parishe and the parishe will not admitt him but take one vvhich is vnmeete off their owne choise what remedy hath he when he is forsaken off the magistrate Thus as shortly as I coulde I haue answered this legion off questions and if my answer in speakinge off thinges so commen be tedious take thy selfe good reader vnto the A. which merueileth at them as if they came oute off India Where he saithe I thus appointe the Prince a good office I haue shewed that the scripture appointeth yt and not I and it is the moste honorable office which the Prince can haue to see the churches be kepte in good order nether taketh yt any thinge from the royall estate that he muste obey and serue the lorde And where he saithe by this meanes the Prince muste stande and loke on all this while and in the ende laie to his hande I answer that wheras thes waies off admonition by the churches and Synode are sente before his authoritie yt serueth not onely for the ease off the magistrate whilest that after this sorte oftentimes the difference is ended before it come to him but also agreeth better with the maner off Phisicke which owght to be vsed in such diseases For that vvhich may be conueniently wonne vvith a vvorde shoulde not be gotten by the sworde and that vvhich maye begotten to bee doone with conscience shoulde not be essaied by compulsion Yowr slaunder that wee gyue no more to the cyuill magistrate then the papistes so often repeted is already and god willing shall be more apparante Yt is also a notable and an impudente slaunder that the Magistrate muste onely at the cōmaundemēt of the seniors execute suche lawes as they haue deuised wher as wee holde that if al the bishopes and elders in the realme woulde decree vnlawfull thinges the Prince owght to make them voide ād that he may ād owght to punishe all ecclesiasticall persons which walke disorderly Likewise yt is a fond dreame of surcharginge the Prince with thes matters as thowgh the Princes authoritie necessarily deriued vnto diuers in euery shire for other affaires off gouernment maie not likwise depart also this care vnto them Therfore if yow haue no better exceptiōs then these I am not afraied stil to cōmit my reasons to the iudgement not onely of the godly vvhich rest in authoritie of the word but euen off the wise ād reasonable man which maketh his account of likelihoodes THes highe wordes that he remembreth no learned writer new nor oulde which denieth that there were fewe professors of the gospell in the Apostels times in respecte off those professe nowe what haue they beside a crake And in respecte off the oulde writers yt is absurdly saide For howe coulde they compare the nomber of the professors of our times with those which were in the primitiue churches onles they shoulde prophecie seinge they were dead long before And maketh yt for yow if the newe writers doo not denie this Iff it he no good reason from the scripture negatiuely in those thinges which yt professeth to speake off is it good from other vvriters and frō one parte off them in thinges which they make no profession of ▪ I looked therfore yow shoulde haue browghtesome vvhich by affirming that yow saie mighte if not make it true yet at the leste seeme true I could off yowr chalenge take occasion to bringe all the peregrination off Sainct Paul declared in the Act. Epistles and especially in the 15. Rom. drawen to my hand by which appeareth that he for his parte onely had caused the Gospell to sounde in more then halfe off the worlde I coulde also fetche in Euseb and Ierome which testifie vvhat the other Apostels did for their parte I propounded that which I saide withoute proofe because the thinges are manifestly knowen and suche as can not be denied yow affirme withowte all proofe that in controuersie and wheruppon yowr cause in yowr
notwithstanding the misteries of God as the children of God them selues And althowghe the persequution shoulde giue some aduancement to knowledge that waies yet it hindreth more otherwaies in that it letteth the often meetinges to heare the vvorde of God vvherby knowledge is bredd in that also pouertie wher with it is cōtinually yoked draweth many cares for this present life for them and theirs Likwise continuall feare they be in euen duringe the time of their meetinges for the vvorde off God enemie vnto the vnderstanding and puttinge to flighte the powres of the minde vvherwith knowledge is gotten and also the often and soudein shiftinges from place to place muste needes be a lett to that tainment off knowledge in the vvord off god Where yow call vpon answer vnto your reason yow haue it that the time off peace drawethe no more ignorance in the professors off the gospell then the time of persequution and therfore the difference between thes times in that poincte to be euill assigned I alledged also that the elections off the bishoppes vvere so euill and of so vnfitte persones that althowgh the election off the churche shoulde swarue muche yet it can hardly choose vvorse then the bishopes doo wherunto yow answer not The distinction of being of the churche and in the church I browghte and allowed of it yet as thowgh yow had browght it and I refused it yow labour in confirmation of it But that which needeth yowr helpe and for proofe wherof I aske some testimonie of scripture that Idolaters and papistes are in the church is not proued As for dronkardes and whoremongers 2c Yt is spoken off before close papistes and Atheistes which dissemble their vvickednes are in the nomber off Hipocrites and therfore muste be holden to be in the church vntil the Lorde discouer them For professed Papistes and Atheistes which neuer made profession off the gospell it is not needefull to waite for the sentence off excomnnication to cut them of seinge they vver neuer of the church If notwithstandinge their professed enemitie vnto the gospell they should be accounted off the church because they agree to heare the worde and receiue the sacrament with vs then a Turcke or a Iew professinge his Turkisme or Iudaisme if he be contented to heare the worde and receiue the Sacrament is so also to be accoumpted Which if it be absurd it can be no good reason to saie that they owghte therfore to be holden off the churche because they are in some respectes contente to he are the worde and receiue the Sacramentes And I vvoulde gladly learne where the Lord hath vvilled vs so to caste awaie the vse of our iudgement that when men make open profession that they are members off the bodie of the Pope which is Antchriste yet wee muste accounte off them as off members off Christe or howe this is to iudge iustlie Yow are very vnfaithfull in reporting my wordes continually I nether saie that Hypocrites onely are in the church and not of yt and the place in the margent I alleadge to another purpose then yow affirme that is to proue that the papistes and Idolaters beinge vvithowte haue not to doo with the church nor the churche vvith them where yow woulde proue by those wordes if any brother be an Idolater that Idolaters maie be in the churche yow muste vnderstand firste that it is one case off him that hath giuen his name to the gospell and afterward slydeth from that profession to Idolatrie and another of him vvhich neuer gaue it but hath bene from his infancie an Idolater For althowghe the firste can not be seuered from the church withowt solemne sentence of excōmunication because by a publike profession off the trwth he was once receiued into the bodie therof yet there is not lyke reason off him which was neuer so setled And this differēce Saint Paule dooth make when he giueth leaue to a Christian to haue to doo with an Idolater of the worlde that is which hath not bene of the churche and yet will not suffer him to haue to doo with one which is famously knovven for so the the word signifieth to be a brother Wheruppon followeth that forsomuche as our Idolaters professinge their poperie still are not nor can not be famously knowen for professors off the gospell this place of S. Paule openeth no dore for them to enter into the churche Furthermore yt muste be obserued what kinde off Idolatrie yt is which Saint Paule saithe maie fall into a brother and yet he reteine the name of brother This appeareth vpon the discourse he maketh in that Epistle to haue bene onely a sittinge downe to eate at the feaste of Idolaters made in honour of their Idoles withowt any honour doone to idoles by sacrifice or bodily vvorship and vvithowt anie conscience of that meate more then of other Which althowghe he proue a spice of Idolatrie yet was yt one of the leasie and lighteste kindes and such as holdinge stil the foundacione off Christianitie coulde not vvithowt obstinacie in it cut from the church Wherby falle the owte that the papistes vvhich in their Idolatrie rase the foundations of trewe religion can not by that place come into anie accounte off the church off God. For the first place off Maister Caluin that there are in the Church contemners off God and vvhich lyue dissolutely if the S. had added the nexte wordes that suche ovvght vvith all diligence to be taken avvaie by excommunication he might haue bene as hamed to alledge this sentence to so small purpose The other that Saint Paul meaneth the absteining from a disordered brother off priuate societie and not of the publicke communion yt is true in deede but to no purpose For withal he confesseth that the other owght to be seuered from the communion But forasmuche as it is not in the power of a priuate man to excommunicate that perteining as he saith vnto whole bodie off the churche by whose cōsent yt owght to be doone and yet in his power to kepe him selfe from his priuate societie he concludeth against the Anabapt which absteined from the holy cōmunion if any liuing offensiuely were receiued that it folowed not because S. Paul woulde haue one absteine frō priuate familiaritie therfore he would haue him absteine from the communion Which is no parte off our question and is too shamefully alledged considering that the place making nothing to this question striketh starcke dead another off his cawses towching the sole excommunication of the bishopp And althowghe it be owte off place yet hauing gotten the booke yt shall not be vnprofitable to admonishe the reader off the S. vnfaithfull dealing in his former allegations off Maister Caluin for vvhere pa. 81. he to conclude that the discipline is not of the substantiall notes of the churche alledgeth a sentence owt off this booke beside that I haue shewed how euill he concludeth off his wordes it is to be noted that in the same
to Lazarus dead in his graue come forth and to the Palseie man ryse and vvalke And his breathing beinge the Sacrament off those wordes receiue the holy goste they muste off necessitie be referred to the same ende So that if our Sauiour woulde declare his deuinity by one it was his minde to doo the same by the other And if because he instituted a minister by those wordes they are to be vsed then the breathing also must lykwise considering that he vsed that for the confirmacion off the wordes Where he saith they conteine a perpetuall promise off the presence off the spirite with those which Christe shall call euen so doth the commaundinge off the sea c. to be quiet conteine a perpetuall promise that the winde and sea shoulde ryse and fall for the profite off those vvhich be the Lordes But as there is no promise that that shall be in abating their rage so foundainly as our Sauiour Christe did so there is no worde that the Lorde will giue his spirite by pronouncing off this sentence The bishop saithe he hath no meaninge to commaunde Nether had the Papistes but why he shoulde speake one thing and meane another he can shewe no reason therfore our faulte beinge in this poincte the same vvith the Papistes hath the same Censure off writers inueighing againste this vnaduised imitacion That which is saide that if any patron off calling is to be followed our sauiour Christes owghte is a grosse begging of that in controuersie and then apparantly refuted in that our Sauiour Christe gaue newe names in his ordination sente forth two by two commaunded they should cary no weapon c. which can haue no place in our ordinacions Where I alledged that the reason was not one in thes wordes and in the wordes off the supper in that the minister doth not commaund that the bread be the body but saith yt is he answereth nothing Tract 3. and 4. according to the D. That all ordinarie Ministeries are annexed to a certein place THe A. in heaping vp certein differences betwene the office off an Apostle and Pastor answereth nothing to the matter Yff this be true which is set downe that they be like in this that a certein church is to a pastor or a minister vvhich the twelfth place was then amongest the Apostels the reason off the Adm. is mainteined For then as it was not lawfull for them to haue proceeded vnto a newe election if Iudas had not fallen from his ministerie so it is not lawfull to ordeine Pastors so longe as the place is full likewise if the Apostels would not vndertake any election but where they had the light and guide off the worde off God to shewe them the way not onely what manner a one but when he should be chosen muche lesse is it lawefull for the Bishoppes The first off thes being so cleare as the A. durst not plainly denie he doth notwithstanding pushe at priuely saying that Paul and Barnabas were added aboue the nombre off twelue But he should haue knowen that they were added by the Lorde and not by the church where he should haue shewed that the Apostels c. chose the thirtenth Apostle And we denie not but the Lorde may nowe if yt seme good vnto him choose some Minister which hath no certein place That which he obiecteth off Epaphroditus c. to be Apostels suche as we speake off is an absurd begging off that which is in question Where against the second point he saith that there is no suche thing in the Election off the Pastors as that in their election the scripture should be fulfilled c. allthoughe there be not so particular a worde as off chusinge one into Iudas place yet there is a certein rule in obedience whereoff the scripture is daily fulfylled And so falleth also his other exception which supposeth that off one example we make a generall rule Considering that we craue no further helpe off that example then the same was compassed by the worde off god The A. grauntinge the distinction off ordinarie and extraordinarie Ministeries and yet denying that it can be warranted by the scriptures poursueth his former traine off shrincking the scriptures Seinge yt followeth thereuppon that some truthe in Diuinitie cannot be warranted by the worde off god The question moued off the Elders is out off place the answer whereunto shal be differred vnto the proper treatise The absurd speaches which he hath here and in the next Diuision off Apostels Euangelistes and Prophetes come to be examined in the answer to his third chap. Heere first he trifleth with his reader whilest he supposeth that I ground the function off Elders vpon the 4. off the Ephes and that Iesteme that place a perfect rule of Ecclesiasticall functions when as not onely I haue no syllable sounding that way but haue declared the contrarie in that by a long discourse in the question off the Archebishop I haue shewed that that place is onely of the Ministeries occupied in the worde That which he speaketh heere off ouerseing shepherdes and watchmen belongeth to the 6. Diuision where yt is repeated That off one shepherd hauing many flockes belongeth to the question off hauing many benefices Yt remaineth to mainteine that part off the Diuision which setteth downe the Doctor off the church as a seuerall member from a Pastor Which may appeare by that the Apostle placeth them both to the Romanes and Ephes as diuers beside that the giftes differing whereby those functions are executed and there being apt to teache and therfore meet for the office off a Doctor which haue no grace in exhortacion or mouing the affections off the hearers and therefore not so fit to be Pastors yt must followe that the functions be diuers And where the Ans opposeth vnto vs the iudgement off one or twoo it is easye to shewe not onely moe authorities off priuate men but the vse off the Elder churches euen from the Apostels time Epecially in Alexandria where the distinction off the Bishop and Doctor off the church is so often obserued by the ecclesiasticall story also the coustome continued in cathedrall churches as they are called wherefrom time to time beside the Bishop hathe bene a reader And if thes were not distinguished thē must it needes follow which in an other place the A. denieth that there were ordinarily two Bishops in one church considering that beside the Elders and him which they commonly called the bishopp there was also a Doctor Nether ought it to be any hinderance to this distinction that Saint Paul coupleth the Pastor and Doctor together where as he sundred the rest that goe before by this worde Some For the coniunction dothe not couple them in signification but maketh them onely couples off the liberalitie off Christe towardes his church Especially considering that bothe this coniunction And is oftentimes a note to couple seuerall members off one diuision and the Apostel would rather
proue an Apostel yt proueth one sent not to a prouince or kingedome but vnto one singular person onely But who would voutsafe an answer to such scrapinges Against that I alledged to proue that Iunias and Adronicus were no Apostels for that a man may be famous amongest the Apostels and yet no Apostel he opposeth Martyr that semeth to doubt whether the wordes will beare that sense which I leaue to the readers iudgement The other reason that S. Paul calleth them kinsfolke and fellowe prisoners and not fellow labourers which his vse is when he speaketh of those which haue any ministery of the gospell he towcheth not He hathe raked vp to no no pourpose a number off bare opinions which I will not wrestell with considering that nothing thereby falleth froÌ„ our cause For if both Epaphroditus and these be Apostels such as Paul and Barnab I refer my self to that where I haue shewed that that function is ceassed If in the generall signification for that they are sent to preach yt maketh nothing to the question seing the D. must shewe that there is an ordinary particular function off Apostelship seuered from the office off a Pastor Euangelist and Prophete Where he saith he alledged them to proue that some nowe may preache which haue no certein clere I could not thinck himso forsaken off all iudgement that he would make such a conclusion howbeit I trust nowe he hath his answer That I alledged the Apostels declaring that they vvould not haue this order continued in the church in that they renevved not that order of Apostels as they vvere taken avvay by death he answereth first that the scripture doth not expresse it As yf S. Luke which so diligently described the election off Matthias would haue quit ouerleaped this if there had bene any And considering that they had not such cause to drawe them to a newe consultation of a newe Apostel as in the 1. Act. which was an expresse word off taking an other into the roume off Iudas it is manifest that they attempted no such thing after So that alththough yt be not expressed yet it is conteined in scripture that there was no consultation off an other Apostel Yf not howe is he as he saith persuaded that there was none chosen into their places or how knoweth he that it was not necessarie will he still haue his persuasions in diuinitie without the word without which they are no persuasions but idle phansies After he asketh who euer saied that there muste be twelue Apostels nether more nor lesse as though my reason tended to that But yf the Apostels did not vphould that small nomber off twelue which the Lord instituted yt proueth that their minde was not to choose about that nomber And if they would not continue 12. to gather the â—2 tribes off Israel scattered thoroughe the whole worlde they ment not that there should be a greater nomber to gather those which were scattered in one Iland To that I alledged off Ambrose which saith that he vvould not take vpon him the estate of an Apostel he answereth that he saied so to abase him selfe because in an other place he chalengeth not the circumspection off a pastor will he neuer wake out off this sleepe for to let passe that not to acknowledge the grace of God bestowed on him is a fault as to chalenge that which he hath not receiued and not to enter here into his abilitie of doing the office of a Pastor doth he not see that the cawse off not taking vpoÌ„ him the estate off an Apostel is assigned not in his disablenes but in that which the greatest wit learning and godlines off those times could not come vnto that is to say that none could chalenge the office off an Apostell but he vvhom the sonne off God him selfe had chosen He might aswel say that it is a point off great modestie for a man to professe that he cannot clyme vp into heauen withowt a ladder Nether is this Ambrose iudgement onely but Ignatius which in those epistles that the D. will haue rightly borne saith that he vvill not commaund them any thinge as an Apostell In deed Nouatus a runnegate Manes a Phranticke Martiall a coleprophet Romish Augustine the Anabaptistes off our time and such brambels haue intitled them selues by the name off Apostels and taken vpon them to ordeine others but all that haue had together with pietie any spark off iudgement haue beside their heresies condemned also this phrensie Cyprian reprocheth Nouatus that he sent forth newe Apostels August presseth the Manicheans once or twise which saied they were Apostels and demaundeth what scripture they could shew to shew themselues Apostels Whereby he declareth that he estemed no other Apostels then which had particular testimonie off the scripture which thing he neuer laide to the charge off other orders off the Manichean Ministers Zuinglius also chargeth the Anabaptistes aswell for that they tooke vpoÌ„ them the office as also for that they chalenged the name off Apostel But the D. seing his folie laide open to the derision off younge children hath in fauour off his Apostels and Prophetes inuented a newe distinction For where I alledged certeine proper markes off the Prophetes as foretelling thinges to come and Apostels as immediat calling from God seing off Christ embassadge into the whole world which not falling into any function nowe in vse proue that they are ceassed he aswereth that Prophetes and Apostels in such respectes are ceassed but continue still as towching preaching the gospell Then which what can be more bluntly spoken For yt as much as yf one should say that a beast is a man although not in respect that it hath a naturall capacity off reason and speach yet in that it liueth and hath sense as a man For as a man and a beast being both liuing thinges are seuered one from an other by their properties and speciall differences as they be called off the Logicians euen so Apost Prophetes Euangelistes Pastors Doctors being all preachers off the Gospell are seuered by that wherein they differ one from an other And as he can be no man which hath none off those differences whereby a man is seuered from other liuing thinges so he can not be Prophete or Apostel which hath nothing whereby he may differ from a Pastor Doctor or Euangelist Yt is also too childishe that he vnderstandeth not how the difference off a thing which is the substantiall forme being taken away the thing it selfe can not remaine Therefore yf the D. will haue Apostels Prophetes and Euangelistes remaine he must shew howe both euerie one off those nowe differ from them selues and from the functions off Pastor and Doctor In which behalf he hath bene hacking but his tooles will not enter For this newe Apostels office is placed in preaching the word where need requireth the Prophetes in an especiall gift off interpreting the
scriptures the Euangelistes office being set betwene three opinions as it were three stooles ether off preaching more feruently then other or off preaching the gospell or off preaching symply falleth flat to the ground For howe dare he take vpon hym to set vp Euangelistes wheÌ„ as appeareth here and especially pa. 407. he knoweth not what their office is and wherein it consisteth Which might haue serued him for a peece off instruction that that functioÌ„ is ceassed For eueÌ„ as the Iewes if they were not altogether blinded might vnderstand that the Lord hath takeÌ„ away the difference off cleane and vncleane beastes in that by their owne confession they can not come to the knowledge off meates forbidden euen so if as he saith the Lord hath not left any exact knowledge in the scriptures of this office beside other reasons he declared by this also that his meaning was that it should haue no continuance Considering that there is no office off continuance whereoff all the partes haue not a full sight and manifest shewe in the scriptures But let the Answ reape that he neuer sue and not able to proue any let him enioy ether all or that signification off Euangelistes which serueth his turne beste First it can not be denied but all these three agree in preaching off the gospell Likewise that which the D. assigneth in the description off Apostels that they preach where need requireth agreeth vnto his Euangelistes and Prophetes both by the practise of their offices in the scripture and by the D. owne confession especially in Euangelistes whose ministrie he appointeth in going from place to place This differeÌ„ce theÌ„ remaineth that Euangelistes do preach with greater zeale then other the Prophetes with greater dexteritie off interpreting Wherein first he is a small freind off the Apostels Whom contrary to their institution he hath thrust downe vnder the degre off Prophetes and Euangelistes which hauing certen giftes off Zeale and dexteritie off interpreting aboue them muste needes haue the vpper hand Secondly he hath gyuen a checke to the Prophetes whom the scripture preferring before he placeth behinde the Euangelist For the gift off Zeale in preaching the word symply being more excellent then to haue a speciall dexteritie and redâ—nes in interpreting th one proceding off greater knowledge thother off greter loue the office whereunto yt is knit muste needes be higher Thirdly let him shewe how thes Euangelistes Prophetes and Apostels may be chaunged into Pastors For yf their giftes off interpretatioÌ„ and Zeale be greater theÌ„ fall into a Pastor then yt is nether lawfull for the Bishop to admit nor for them to accept the office off a pastor after they haue once exercised thes offices which is directly contrary to the practise off our churches Fourthly if there be such offices why are they not ordeined euery one to their seuerall function Apostels to their Apostelship Prophetes to their Prophetship Euangelistes to their Euangelist ship that they may knowe to what kinde of Ministerie to applie themselues and poursue after that gift which is moste agreable with their office Fiftly considering that yt is commen to them all to preache whereneed requireth how coÌ„meth yt to passe that some beinge restrained vnto a Diocese other haue for their circuit a whole prouince other a whole realme other two realmes off England and Ireland or if this diuersitie off limitation make diuersitie off function let him tell vs which off thes we shall take for Apostels which for Prophetes which for Euangelistes But there would be no end yf I should poursue all the absurdities which hang vpon this assertion I come therefore vnto that spoken a part off the Euangelistes He saith that he hath shewed by scripture reason and autoritie that thoughe the name off an Euangelist be changed yet the office remaineth which is moste vntrue For nether hath yt any autoritie at all and yt is both against reason and scripture that the office by his saying remaining fully and in all pointes the name should be chaunged I say by his saying fully and in all pointes forasmuch as that towching writing off the gospell wherein onely he maketh our Euangelistes to differ from those in the Apostels time shal be shewed not to apperteine vnto the office off an Euangelist such as Saint Paul speaketh off Where I saide it is against reason that the name shoulde be taken away both I saide it for that there is a profitable admonition in it to kepe them in remembrance off their dutie and for that it conteineth a marke off Honour aboue certein other ministers Which being a part off reward ought not to be cut of from them which doo faithfully bestowe themselues in that office yt is against scripture manifestly which by this meanes is set to schoole whilest the name which yt gaue being caste aside an other as more fit is receiued Whereunto ad that it is against commen experience For it commeth often to passe that the duties commaunded falling away the names anexed vnto them remaine but that they remaining the names especially which cary a note off honour that men so willingly lay hould of weare out is very seldome or neuer heard off So that here I haue to thancke the D. which putteth me in remembrance off a very probable reason against all his newe found aswel Prophetes and Apostels as Euangelistes Which is that for so much as the names were worne out many ages agoe the offices them selues had also an end and forasmuche as no ordinary minister nowe owght to be called by thes titles or being called to receiue theÌ„ ther fore the offices whereof these be the names are ceassed Otherwise these titles both ought to be giueÌ„ aÌ„d may be receiued as well as those of bishop or Pastor and Doct. Where I alledge that Timothe and Philip Euangelistes had their vocation confirmed by miracle towching Philip he maketh an outcrie for that he was entred into his ministerie off Euangelistship before the miracle 8. Act. 29. As if the same came not to passe in Aron which had his calling confirmed by miracle long after he had don the office of the high priest Likewise he answereth that it was rather doon for the Eunuches sake then for Philips Albeit yt were so yet by that rather is not shut forth that yt was dooÌ„ for Philips If he had learned that Dauid and other seruantes off God come oftentimes ether through small successe in their ministrie or manifould contradictions off the wicked or sense off their owne weakenes into doubt off their calling he would not haue found it so straunge that the seruantes off God in their owne respect haue had these confirmacions Where he saith these particular examples make no generall rule I shewed the likelihood wherevpon I thought the rest to haue the same forsomuch as these twoo which the scripture onely calleth Euangelistes had that confirmation Which I leaue to the iudgement of the reader Where he saith the place
out off Bulling Muscul Heming to be preaching the gospell purely and constantly is nothing to the pourpose For we graunt yt is true but that there is further vnderstanded which may seuere hym from other ministers off the word Whereoff Caluin assigneth thes reasons one that by ascribing vnto him this degree aboue that off Pastors he might procure him more autoritie the other that he might thereby gyue the spur to stir vp and enforce him self to all carefull trauaile off answering so highe a calling Off both which reasons he assigneth a manifest cause which is that the Apostel throughout his whole epistle driueth vnto those two endes This is yet clearer for that where other titles off Apost Prophe c. be caried off the scripture from their particular vnto a generall signification this word off Euangelist set a part this place in controuersie is not vsed but to note that proper office opposed vnto other ministeries off the word And therefore the Apostel hauing occasion to speake off this word preacher shunneth as semeth the word Euangelist and vseth an other when as notwithstanding the word Euangelist was proper to holy writ and thother commen to prophane off which reason also I left a step in the place before recited Againe Eusebius howsoeuer otherwise he forgetteth him self where he speaketh off that proper office noteth it out by the same manner of speache which the Apostell saying they did the vvorcke off Euangelistes Last off all it appeareth by that the scripture setteth forth off him both before he was at Ephesus and after touchching his ministerie in many places where the Apostels had tawght before that the worcke off Euangelist is taken in that particular signification whereby it is seuered from other Ministers considering that the Euangelistes office was to water where the Apostles had planted and to be assistant vnto them His third answer is a mash and bruing of all together drinck fitter for horse then men For to be sure to make Timothe a bishop he thinketh that one at one time may be Apostle Euangelist Doctor bishop and I can not tell what which is directly against the word off god As when yt saith that God gaue some Apostels some Prophetes againe he set first Apostles secondly Prophetes c. Againe are all Apostels are all Prophetes c. Whereby appeareth that the holy gost placeth thes diuers giftes in seuerall persones and that they are one vnder an other so that onles one and the same maÌ„ may at one time be second and third inferior and superior before and after him selfe yt can not be that one at one time can be Apostle Euangelist c. hetherto perteineth which is towched in the former booke that the Apostel bringeth off the likenes off constitution off our bodies with the church that as the naturall bodie so the spirituall of the churche is best preserued and mainteined in most comelines when euery member doth his proper office and of the contrary side â—â— th one so thother is hurt and disfygured when one breaketh vpon an other Whereuppon yt is euident how vntrue yt ys which the D. doth in so great assurance set downe that one may be Euangelist and Bishop at one time Besides that he is confuted by his owne wordes For if the office off an Euangelist be to preach more feruently then others which significatioÌ„ those three which he hath set downe onely as that which putteth a differeÌ„ce betweÌ„ yt aÌ„d others caÌ„ staÌ„d theÌ„ he caÌ„ be no bishop coÌ„sidering that euery office hath his proper gift according to the measure whereof it is exequuted And yt is as absurd that a bishop should preach more ferueÌ„tly aÌ„d beyoÌ„d the measure of a bishop as yt is that a maÌ„ may leape beyond him self ouerrun himself yt is saide that one in his full age differeth from him selfe in his childhood and a man at one time may after a sort passe hym self at an other but that he should differ from him self at one and the same time as the D. iudgement implieth this is the first tydinges I haue heard off yt Againe yt is houlden off all that I haue red Zuinglius onely excepted which maketh a bishop and an Euangelist all one that both an Euangelist is not and a bishop is bound to a certaine place And this difference is thus far confessed off the D. that the Pastor is more bound to one speciall church then the Euangelist which yf yt be true a man being as he saith at one time both bishop and Euangelist may be also at one time bound and not bound vnto one place haue a speciall charge off one and indifferent off all which will be hard for him to bring to passe without he worcke miracles For his reasons whereupon this opinion standeth that Saint Paul is called a Doctor S. Mathew and Iohn being Apostels are off writers called Euangelistes they are far from prouing this Touching the fyrst Saint Paul ys not called a Doctor symply but with addition Doctor off the Gentils declaring that his Mynistry perteined not to one kingdome but vnto all which is all one with an Apostel Towching thother he should vnderstand that our question ys not off an Euangelist as writers but as Sainct Paul taketh Euangelist which can be by no meanes vnderstanded off him which writeth the storie off the gospell considering that Philip which is confessed to haue bene an Euangelist in that sense was none Yff he say that the Apostle ment to set forth twoo kindes of Euangelistes one preaching onely an other preaching and writing too I answer that Saint Paule pourposing there to set forth the liberalitie off the Lord in giuing preaching ministries vnto the church was nether so negligent a commender off the grace off God nor so drie and poore off speach but yf there had bene an other seuerall ministerie as this answer supposeth he both would and could haue vsed an other word as a seuerall dishe to haue presented this gift with And seyng the D. bringeth in S. Paul offring one onely gift of the bishoprik vnto the church in two wordes as it were two dishes what likelihood ys there that he would thrust vp so narrowly thes two giftes whereoff ech off them being more excellent then the bishoprick asketh greater roume Moreouer by the same reason that men may call Saint Mathew and Saint Iohn Euangelists becawse they wrote the stories of the gospell they may call S. Paul and Peter c. For as they wrote the storie so thes wrote the summe off the whole doctrine off the gospell They being therefore both writers off the gospell in this rule of esteeming Euangelistes by writing muste needes be a like Euangelistes For the greeke word fauoureth the one as well as the other yt being as ioyfull newes which S. Peter and Paul wrote as that which S. Mathew and Iohn For the difference off storie and summe bring not a graine weight to pull the name of
Euangelist and Prophet vnto the Pastor or bishop yf I say none of these be sufficient yet the D. hym selfe will help vs which in appointing the giftes off Prophetes and Euangelistes greater then those of the bishop proueth that he here denieth And although he take this libertie off denying thinges which none durst euer call into doubt yet he escapeth not so considering that although he make the bishop to take the wall off the Euangelist yet he can not do yt in the Apostels and Prophetes Therefore the absurditie remaineth still that the bishop being an inferior minister taketh vpon hym to make ministers which are aboue him He saith that the 7. of the Heb. maketh not for me becawse blessing is not there taken for consecration to the ministery yet the reason is all one For as the Apostel proueth that Melchizedech was greater then Abraham because he was the minister of God to pronounce the bessing vpon him in the name and autoritie of the Lord so he that ordeineth being a publike Minister off God to pronounce his assistance to wardes him that is to be admitted owght by the same reason to be greater then he Where I alledged out of Euseb that the Euangelistes did ordein bishops hauing nothing to answer he was content to take the benefit off the printers or writers fault which as casely might come to passe for the figure off 3. had set the figure off 2. where I shew that thes Euangelistes are superfluous yf the pastors and Doctors doo their dutie he asketh what iff there be not for euery church a sufficient Pastor Which being answered in an other place I answer also here that his Euangelistes should helpe to make vp the nomber Where he saith if euery church were prouided off an able Pastor yet for confirmation off the doctrine oftener preaching diuers worcking of God by one rather then an other the Euangelistes might doo good beside that he easely forgetteth the churches charge which being hardly able to mainteine their proper ministery should be ouercharged with those that ride abowt and beside that the Pastor being prouided vnto euery church the ouerplus owght to serue to fournish them off Doctors an other ordinarie mynisterie off the word he must know that able teachers can teach as often as the church can conueniently meet And it can not be denied but they haue the blessing off God promised to their labours before any other Yf there be any such great and vrgent need off confirmation off any point off doctrine the churches hard by may by dutie off godly neighbourhood help one an other in that behalff The place to proue the ceassing off this Mynisterie out off Eus is manifest to all that wil vnderstād For in that speaking of the time about the yeare 162. he saith there vvere yet Euangelists he declareth that there were none in his time and that he saith with repetition there vvere there vvere all see that he wrote that with declaration off sorow that they hauing bene before were not then That which he answereth that they can not now goe from kingdome to kingdome becawse the miraculous gift off tounges is ceased maketh vtterly against him For Euseb putting that amongest other an̄exed to the office off an Euangelist left the reason off the want off that ministerie which he had before bewailed Which being the same now that was then yt followeth that as there was not then so there is not now any such function Thus much for the maintenance off the reasons which were set downe by me against the D. Apostels Prophetes c. it followeth to examin his First the reader may see the hardnes off the D. countenance which hauing diuers reasons alledged out of the scripture asketh notwithstanding for one word out off it which doth but insinuate thes offices to be temporall After he alledgeth Ephes 4. where vpon that it is saide that those with other Ministeries off the word were giuen off God for the gathering together off the sainctes vntill we all come vnto a perfect man he concludeth but vniustly that they are perpetuall ministeries For the offices off Apostelship c. may well haue their worck in the perfection off the church without such continuāce Which he might haue easely knowen if he had considered that which our Sauiour Christ saith that the fruit off their preaching should remaine Therfore although their ministrie were but for a time yet for as much as the fruit thereoff hath and shall haue her worck vnto the worldes end in the perfection off the church off God it might be well saide that they were gyuen for the gathering off the sainctes vntill they cam to a be perfect man Nether doo the wordes off the Apostle import continuance off all these offices For if all thes amongest them and euery one in his turne finish this worck yt is enough nothing falleth from the liberalitie off the Lord nothing from the truth off this word no more then he breaketh promis which vndertaking to furnish an other off all manner of worckmen vntill his howse be finished after foundations layed and patron left vnto carpenters and masons how to proceed in the rest off the building with draweth the master builder for as the lorde abated the nomber of sortes of builders so hathe he deminished the varietie off workes requisite to the building And as the offices off Pastor and Doctor which were not in the beginning off this building are saide to be gyuen to perfecting off it euen so thes functions off Apost c. although they be not in the end may likewise be saide But I merueil that the Answ doth not vnderstand that both this place of the Ephes and that off the Corinthes ◠12. speak of such Apostels Prophetes and Euangelistes as were noted with such markes off immediate calling extraordinary giftes c. as fall not into the Apostels Prophetes c. which he dreameth off If therefore he think that the Lord hath bound hym self by those wordes to continue thes degrees yt followeth that he is bound to furnish them with giftes proper to them For if promising such as S. Paul here meaneth he giue other kindes much inferior vnto them he thereby which all godly eares detest is argued off vntruth His other reason is that Prophetes in the 1. Corint 14. and Prophecie 12. Rom. are put as ordinary Whereunto I answer that the word Prophecie is taken sometimes not for that particular function Saint Paul speaketh off but generally for any publike instruction off the people in the will off god As when it is saied extinguish not the spirit dispise not prophecie That it ys so taken to the Rom. yt ys manifest for that yt ys deuided and altogether consumed into the ministeries off the word So that there being no ordinary minister off the word in the church which it embraceth not yt must follow that it is taken there for no particular function Which thing
then will he conclude of an ynch an ell off a week a moneth off a moneth half a yeare and off a case off necessitie make an ordinary licence when S. Paul will haue him which entreth into this warfare off ministry to vnwrap him self off all occasions which may drawe him from yt being already entred he will much lesse suffer that he should ether feek new occasions off absence or take all that are offered Our Sauiour Christ not suffring those whom he called to this worke to goe bury their dead and giue the farewell vnto those off their howse declared sufficiently that they owght to be very vrgent cawses which should drawe the mynister off the word from the charge committed vnto him And when his loue towardes God must be moten by feeding off his flocke committed vnto his charge his long and often voluntary absence must needes proue a small loue in him towardes the lord Which reason being alledged is altogether vnanswered This rare absence and that vppon vrgent cawse may appeare a so by the practise of the church The Councell off Mens decreing that the Bishop vpon sickenes or some other vrgent cause off absence not able to preach should haue some euery sonday and other festdayes to preach in his steed declareth that the vse off the church did nether suffer the bishop to be away but vpon great cawse and that not so much as one holy day withowt a preaching minister to supply his place Augustine saieth that he vvas not absent frō the church of Hippo but cōpelled by sickenes Zuinglius putting difference betweene an Apostel and Pastor saieth that he that doth the office off a Pastor is alvvaies in the povver of the church ouer vvhich he is set and neuer goeth from it Vppon which both testimonies off the scripture and practise off the church yt appeareth how to haue a deputy owght not to be as the D. would haue it an accoustomed thing but rare and vpon vrgent causes Where before he alledgeth for profe off a deputy that there is no shepherd which hath not a boy or a man to supply his absence he owght to vnderstand that our Sauiour Christ is that master shephherd and therefore he being but a seruant can no more set ones his charge then one seruant discharge him self vppon an other Beside what sheepmaister is there of so smal housbandry which will be content that his stipend should be mangled and a portion giuen vnto an hyreling for a monethly or quarterly ouersight off his flocke suffer the shepherd to enioy the rest yt may well be for the poursprofit off the shepherd but it can not be but to the great scare off the sheep considering that not onely the hyred can not by any likelyhood haue that care ouer the flocke which the proper pastor hath but also that all this disputacion tendeth hether that they may haue a reading or other in sufficient substitute which as the shepherdes boy or rather eurr content with a locke or twoo will leaue Maister Person the maister shepherd the rest off the fleese For such is their fidelity that where as in times past the preistes are commaunded to beare the arck vpon their owne shoulders so they should feed their flockes them selues they are not onely content to shift yt from their owne shoulders but as the foolish and idle preistes in committing yt to such vnstilfull gouernours they lay yt vpon a cart hale yt with oxen not with the aduenture but with certeine euent of an ouerthrow Although herein I speak too fauorably off the greatest nombre off them which doo not bestowe so muche coste as a new cart and a draft off oxen come to For they haue learned their howsebandry rather off him which teacheth that alvvaies it standeth a man in least vvhich may be doon by a poore asse And if this carting off the church of God were sent home to our popish Philisthins from whence yt came the kitchen fyre being thereby well abbated this disputation for adeputy would be well cooled For an able man would either for conscience or honesties sake kepe him selfe from this hyrelingship I say consciēce because amongest other corruptions he can not auoide the crime off Simony as they call yt whylest to obteine a place he is content to part stakes with the Pastor Honesty whylest all not seruill minded will rather choose to be free then vnder the yoke off an other mannes seruice His second questiō whether the flocke be not in like daunger in the Pastors absence with leaue as withowt is altogether from the pourpose when it is no lawfull for him nether with leaue nor without leaue to be away with daunger off his flocke His third where I finde in scripture that the Pastor owght to haue leaue off his parish is answered in that I shewed that the Pastors are belonging to their churches and are their seruantes which he altogether passeth by His laste asketh how he cā in his absence haue an able deputy seing he may not be admitted to the ministery which hath not a certeine flocke As though in suche necessitie for so small a time the supply may not be made by the Pastors hard by which is also answer to that he obiecteth pag. 249. Vnto the next diuis I answer not Vpon that many parishes may be ioined in one and fix townes in Fraunce as he saith are committed vnto one Pastor he concludeth that one Pastor may haue diuers flockes which is vnworthy any answer As if a thowsand sheep in one pasture were not easelier and with more cōmoditie tended then three in three sheepgates For as towching the preaching off the word and administring the Sacramentes vnto diuers townes assembled into one bodie vff a church the labour is almoste all one in ten and ten hundred The residue off the charge being commen with him vnto the rest off the elders may be especially in such necessities borne owt by increasing their numbre according to the compas off the churches territorie Yt is also vntrue that he affirmeth I haue saide that the numbre or distance off place is all one And yt is inconuenient that ether a greater numbre be assembled into the bodie off one particular church then can be at once tawght off one mouth or that the numbre should be taken owt off townes farther remoued from the places off the churches resort then that they may haue conuenient accesse Likewise yt is vntrue which he saith off six townes to one Pastor in Fraunce For although one church be assembled owt off diuers townes yet it falleth owt that the least part off those townes perteineth vnto the church and those fewe meet together in one place to receiue the nourriture prouided for them off the Lord by the hand off their Pastor To that alledged that the Pastor if he vvill haue many flockes should content him selff vvith that stipend off them all vvhich
as the worde off God remaineth if all men in the worlde woulde absolue them But let vs heare whether they be repriued by the iudgemente of these churches or whether they giue any pardon which gaue the condemnation There followeth that they allovve better off the harmeles symplicitie off some then off the exquisite learning off others ioyned vvithe pride And worthily For nether can pride agree withe manners off the minister off God and harmles symplicitie maie well agree with a competent learninge meete for that function In the ende they conclude that they reiecte not the good symplicitie of certein so they be not altogether vnskilful off God and his vvorde Firste this can make nothinge for excuse off our mynisters For when they are to learne their Catechisme and the principles off Christian Religion what knowledge is left vnto them off God and off his worde Then yt is like that by harmles symplicitie they meane some rare and singular holines wherby they goo as farre beyond the other in life as they come behinde them in learninge whiche all see to be otherwise in our ignorante ministers oftentimes the maisters off misrule to all the parishe Otherwise they knewe what Ierome saithe that in that S. Paule requireth that a bishop shoulde be vvise he barreth those vvhich vnder the name off symplicitie excuse the folie off mynisters Laste off all by that skill off God and off his worde they muste needes vnderstande suche giftes as are necessarie for a shepherd to feede his flocke whiche is habilitie to teache to exhorte to conuince the aduersarie and if he haue those althoughe he haue not the knowledge off tounges and artes in the name off God let him haue the chaire And suche I confesse our churche hathe had and hathe some but they are very rare and off thes I doubte not but the confession meaneth Nether can they be withowte manifeste iniurie thowghte to receiue those whiche they had before condemned for shall wee saie off them that with one mouthe yea with one breathe they blewe whout and kolde wheruppon I conclude that the condemnation beinge heere greater then the pardon and the wound wider then the plaister yow were verie neere driuen when yow were compelled to vse the testimonie off thes churches to couer the nakednes off the ignorante mynisters ▪ your notable slaunder off the Adm. I am contente shall as yow saie reste in the readers iudgmente That I haue gathered yowr argumente faithfully towchinge the learninge off Catechismes is shewed before There foloweth the 2. diuis the first being a blank where beside the causes by him assigned of want off able Ministers be to no pourpose considering that we shewe there can be no cause off instituting a reading ministery and be also owt off place considering that he shoulde haue opposed them to those which I alledged in that behalf that which onely was materiall that we be in cause off that fewnes is onely saied Where I alledged owt off S. Paul that yt is an expresse commaundement that a pastor should be able to teach and conuince gaynsayers and therfore to be broken vpon no occasion he answereth that S. Paul sheweth the qualities off a pastor but saieth not that we may not haue reading Pastors if there be none or not a sufficient nombre in whom all those qualities concur Then which what can be more bluntly saied For this being a generall rule he owght to haue shewed where the Lord gyueth leaue to take vnteaching mynisters contrary vnto the tenor off this commaundement which he is neuer able to doo For the scripture commaunding the pastors should be able to teach and conuince doth forthwith shutowt all other it being a generall rule that it both commaundeth the contrary off that it forbiddeth and forbiddeth the contrary off that yt commaundeth And there is no commaundement in the scripture which may not be eluded by the D. answer For thus yt may be sayed that we may haue images in churches to teach the ignorant for that although the lord forbid them yet he hath not saied that where there are none or not a sufficient numbre off able teachers we may not haue such supplies Those also which pressed with extreame hunger seeke remedy in stealing finde him their proctor For the lord hath not saied in so many wordes that one which is hungerbitten may not steale as much as will saue his life But when all commaundementes be generall in the scripture albeit they haue not alwaies the vniuersall note off All or None onles there be some exception declared this off the sufficiency off the pastor being not onely vniuersall but vniuersally propounded is better armed against all thes fond cauils For our sauiour declaring that euery one instructed as a scribe vnto the kingdome off God owght to be prouided aforehand with store off doctrine and iudgement to apply yt according to the present occasion doth gyue manifestly to vnderstand that no one may be receiued into the order off pastors which is not able to teach his flocke And the D. may as well say that in default of sober chast and quiet pastors they may chuse dronckards whoremongers swashbucklers as that in default off a teaching pastor they may take vnteaching Yea rather may he say the one then the other cōsidering that sobriety chastitie and quietnes are commen with him to all Christians but abilitie to teach and confute are his proper duties Therfore although thes be both vntollerable yet the church receiueth les harme by pastors which infected with 〈◊〉 doo teach then by them which free from thes are vtterly vnable to teach For the good life off the pastor withowt doctrine wherby they may be both tawght to put their trust in god and see the good workes they should follow is as a faire coulor withowt light to shewe yt by vtterly vnprofitable where the word truly preached shineth oftentimes clearer in the heartes then the clowde of the pastors disordered life cā stay the fruict of And albeit all commaundementes off God are such as may not for any cause be broken yet this S. Paul gyueth off the Pastor hath a speciall fense cast abowt yt wherby it might be kept in greater safety For the spirit of God foreseing this shamefull prophanation off the ministery together with the present daunger vnto the church vseth a preface to this description of the pastors office vsed rarely and but in matters of greatest stablenes saying yt is a certein doctrine As if he should say that which foloweth is an vnuariable and vnchangeable rule which can by no autoritie of men for any cause not onely be brokē but not so much as bowed or once vvrinched a side His reason that Paul was glad those preached which swarued frō that rule beside that I haue shewed it ridiculous is here owt of place cōsidering that thes readers which would haue rēt his heart in peeces being ordeined with breach off the rule off
by this meanes from the maiestie off the scriptures and making them dâ—â—â—e c. amplified in the next diuis by asking why the scriptures were then written with other suche too too idle questions which I am ashamed to defile my penne with is vnworthy the name of a reason As yf in that reading maketh meÌ„ fitter to heare the word preached and to seeke after yt in that yt helpeth to nourish faith engrended in that it confirmeth a man in the doctrine preached when by reading he perceiueth yt to be as the preacher tawght in that it renueth the memory off that was preached which otherwise would decay I say as if in thes respectes and such like the profit off reading and committing the word to writing were not singular and inestimable beside that it is not denied but the Lord may extraordinarily gyue faith by reading onely although the order which God hath put is to saue by folishenes as it is esteemed off preaching beside also that yt is absurd that the D. asketh why els the gospell should be writter as yf there were no other cause of writing off it then that it should be simply redd or as though the principall cawse was not â–ª that yt should be preached But to retourne to the D. exposition First it ouerthroweth the argument off the Apostle For the Iewes offended that he and other preached to the GeÌ„tils prouing first that the inuocation off the name of God perteineth vnto them he concludeth therupon that preaching vnto them was lawfull considering that they could not otherwise come to call vpon the name off God where by the D. expositioÌ„ the Iewes might haue excepted that his mynistery towardes them was not therby iustified forasmuch as they might come to inuocation by reading onely withowt his and others ministery off preaching Furthermore the Apostle S. Paul affirming in plaine wordes that the preaching he speaketh off can not be made but by him vvhich is sent yt is first manifest that reading priuately is cleane shut owt from being conteined vnder this preaching For faith comming onely by that preaching aÌ„d that preaching onely lawfull by the sending of God and publicke calling it followeth that except he will say that the scripture may not be redd priuately onles a man be publikely called therunto that both priuate reading of the scripture can no be conteined vnder the Apostles word of preaching and that faith onles by extraordinary worcke of God can not be engendred by priuate reading Forasmuch as it is engeÌ„dred only by that preaching vnder which priuate reading is not conteined And so goeth to the ground one peece off the D. assertion Now if priuate reading onely can not ordinarily engender faith I would know how publike reading onely can doo yt Beside that when publike reading may be by a simple reader which hath no other charge in the church and off whom this solemne fending can not be vnderstanded yt followeth that faith can not by publike reading onely be engendred Forasmuch as he being none off those sent his reading can not be that preaching by which faith is engendred I say that a reader onely can not be off those sent the Apostle speaketh off not onely because he hath regard vnto the ministeries off the word appointed by God but also for that the place off Esaie owt off which he proueth that faith cometh not but by preaching will by no meanes suffer to cary the word preacher vnto a simple reader For beside that it were friuolous to refer the lifting vp off the voice off those preachers wherunto the Prophet exhorteth vnto a loude reading which is vnderstanded of earnestnes and diligence in preaching that voice he speaketh off is the voice off the churches vvatchmen â–ª which title when yt can not agree vnto a simple reader that hath no further charge then to reade in a booke according to the prescript off others yt is manifest that a simple reader can not be conteined vnder S. Paules preacher seing he can not be conteined vnder Esaies which is the same with S. Paules For when the title off vvatchman draweth a continuall care and circumspection ouer those he watcheth and the reader for any thing his office requireth may occupy him self in any worldly busines sauing onely the time off his reading yt is cleare that he is no church watchman Nay the reading mynisters which haue charge off sowles committed vnto them can be none off this order of watcheman seing they can not onely not see the ennemy a far of but not hard by much les discry him yt perteining to an instructed pastor which according to the circumstance off the inuasion knoweth to apply his watche word Now seing simple reading nether priuate nor publicke can be conteined vnder the preaching S. Paul speaketh off Rom. 10. which is an interpretation and laying open the scriptures by a publike mynister apt and autorised therunto yt followeth that faith which the Apostle teacheth no otherwise to come but by that preaching cometh not ordinarily by symple reading I omit heere that the Apostle vseth to expresse this preaching both by crying and telling good nevves wheroff when yt can not be shewed owt off scripture or as I am perswaded owt of any other autor that ether of them much les both together is vsed for simple reading yt followeth that simple reading can not be vnderstanded by the word preaching To proue that bare reading ingendreth faith he citeth Iohn 5. repeted pag. 574. 2. Timo. 3. whereto perteine Math. 7. Act. 17. 1. Iohn 4. Gal. 1. disorderly placed pag. 717. but to no pourpose For when our Sauiour biddeth the Iewes search the scriptures he referreth them by that search to iudge off the doctrine he had preached before which proueth no fruict off reading when there is no preaching beside that it will be hard for him to refer the word search to reading onely as if one could not search the scriptures when he attendeth to them alledged in sermons yea he is confuted by the place him selfe hath alledged Where he would proue that the scripture red in respect off making the hearers more apte to discerne off preaching is better then preached for when the Apostle teacheth the Galatians to hould them accursed which preache other doctrine then they had receiued by his preaching he dooth flatly make his preaching the rule to examin other preachings by The place off Tim. being as I haue shewed off the proper duties off the minister off the word in preaching making no manner off mention off reading is alledged withowt all iudgement Hether refer Bucers Testimony in his former diuision which maketh for that set downe in this For Bucer setting him self to commend reading in the churche saith twise bare or onely reading confirmeth in the knovvledge off the Doctrine which necessarily presupposeth a knowledge foreplaced or euer yt can be confirmed by reading onely Where as if he might it is to be thowght he would haue
them His proofes comming a mile after are first that a mans meaning is commenly better expressed by writing then by word Which beside that it is confuted by commensense all men knowing that there is more certeine vnderstanding by word off mouth thē by lettres which if any doubt arise in any word can say nothing to the resoluing off it as yt is alledged it can not tend but to vtter subuersion off the lordes order and to proue that commenly and for the moste part it is better to haue reading then preaching The other is that writing remaineth as if the question were wether canonicall writing off the scriptures were better then preaching and not whether there be more fruict in bare reading that which is written then preaching vppon yt In this chap. which supposeth reading preaching beside straunge asseuerations and begging of that in controuersie there is nothing sauing that as absurdities are fruictfull this beggetteth other for pressed he shameth not to say that a child off 4. yeare olde is a preacher off the gospell And why not also a popeniay tawght to pronounce some sentences off scripture for the D. reason because preaching 10 Rom. 14 is all publishing off the gospell by externall voice serueth for one as for the other And beside that it is friuolous that off that God speaketh to vs by reading he would conclude that he preacheth to vs as though all speaking were preaching yt is absurd that he saith the scriptures are not preached in respect off him that readeth but in respect of the spirit of God worcking in the hearers For if reading were preaching yt should be preaching although it wrowght to condēnation wheras by the D. all which hearing the word preached profit not are not preached vnto Which as it is a grosse error so it is a shamefull derogation to the ministery off the word worcking mightely not onely to the saluation off the elect but also throwgh their fault to destruction off the reprobate To the places prouing that it is necessarily required in a minister that he should not onely be sufficiently learned but haue also the gift off vtterance he answereth not Towching that the priestes lippes should kepe knowledge and not his papers he answereth that he shall haue it readier in his lippes if he haue yt in his papers which is not to pourpose seing we spake off those which haue yt onely in papers Then he hath a childish cauill that if he reade he must vse his lippes as if the Prophet contented him self if the priestes were able to reade onely and did not note therby the aptnes to teach as by vncircumcised lippes is noted heauines or vnreadines off speache That a Preacher able for vtterance and learning to preach may reade a sermon if he meane priuately is not in question if publikely yt belongeth to the question off Homilies His case off a man pronouncing an other mans sermon withowt booke beside the fondnes is from the cawse That the reading of Ieremies and Baruchs bookes was preaching becawse the bookes were sermons ys to dreame and not to dispute The 15. 16. verses Rom. 15. make nothing to proue reading preaching but make rather against him in that the Apostle shewing that his writing to them was grownded off Gods calling sowght a more generall word off worcking for the gospell which agreeth to any action the minister doth by reason off his ministery ether in ministring the Sacramentes or otherwise The difference Sainct Paul putteth between his preaching is apparant althowgh the D. hath lost his sight That S. Paul ment he could not personally preach vnto them is his addition corrupting the minde off the Apostle For where shewing that he had great desire to be personally with them form spirit he was not absent he addeth for a cawse that he might preach the D. by this answer drowneth the effect in the cause ād so maketh the Apostle assigne cawses which cawse nothing nor haue any thing to be referred vnto Where I shewe that S. Paul vvriting is no more preaching then his hand or penne he vvrote vvith be his toung lightes or other instrumentes he spake vvith he answereth not for that as he saith it is a iest Where if his cause could speake it woulde complaine that he maketh no more account of it then to esteme her head stroked when it is cracked a sonder for the reason is of the efficient cause seing they can not be the same which can not be made by the same instrumentes To mainteine his ridiculous demaunde was not reading off Deut. preaching he should haue shewed that the reading off yt is rather preaching then reading off Exodus which he doth not Howbeit he concludeth that the reading theroff was preaching becawse the Lord commaunded that the priestes should reade yt that the people might learne to feare God which is as ridiculous For so peinting and grauing off the scriptures is preaching and peinters and grauers which sometimes knowe neuer a lettre off the booke shall be come preachers Considering that the Lord cōmaunded that the lawe should be grauen in the entrance of their land and writtē vpō their cytie gates and howses to this end that the people might learne to feare God c. After he asketh why Iosia should cawse the lawe to be redd if reading had not bene off at great force to perswade as preaching which phrensie belonging to another question is answered before Where he concludeth that for that reading is as effectuall as preaching therfore it is preaching beside the falsehood off the antecedent the conclusion is too bad for if the raine be as effectuall to cawse the fruictes grow as the sonne and meat as effectuall to perserue the life as drincke it followeth not therfore that the raine is the sonne or meat drincke Where vppon Nehem. 8. he would proue reading preaching there is not a word wheron it may be gathered but contrariwise they are manifestly distinguished in that chap. For beside reading there mentioned he setteth forth preaching by all these wordes that the Leuites cavvsed the people to vnderstand the lavv gaue the sense off the lavv cavvsed them to vnderstand the reading And where pag. 91. he saith that the wordes translated off some they gaue the sense signify nothing les thē that there was any exposition ioined with reading bearing him self vppon learners interpreters seing he seeth no further into this then with other mennes eies why should not he haue followed the iudgement off the Geneua translation which he pincheth they being learned men and moe in nombre then as I thincke he can alledge Which I say not to iustify that translation throwghowt or to shut vp the way gainst a better but because it seemeth an vnworthy thing to refuse their iudgement vpon bare autoritie I haue none off his learned men to looke their iudgementes howbeit for that I finde one off the Hebrues so expounding the wordes
I will not deny but some other deceiued by him might fall into that error Vnto whom althowgh I could oppose an other flatly expounding these verses off reading ioined with exposition the exposition off the former not shutting owt preaching yet I had rather my confutation stand of reason then autoritie Which is that the holy gost shewing in the 7. verse that the Leuites made the people vnderstand the law in the 8. sheweth howe they did it for saith he they redd in the booke off the lavv distinctly and in giuing the sense caused them to vnderstand the reading Wheras those wordes which are tourned gyuing the sense can not 〈◊〉 withowt a gap be caried to the peoples attentiue hearing considering that it is spoken in that verse off the Leuites withowt resuming off the people ether expresly naming them or obscurely by any article Which hard translations when an other sense doth well agree to the suit off the text are by all meanes to be auoided That thes wordes the Leuites cavvsed the people vnderstand the lavv be nothing els but they made them gyue diligent eare vnto the reading yt is violent For beside that it is against the generall rule not to run to a figuratiue speach when the simple will which the D. can not deny agree with the residue off the text especially when both this and the other interpretation they gaue the sense are confirmed by the practise off the churche yt is vnconfirmed by any conference off scripture or circumstance of place confuted also by that this word is expounded by an other they made them knovv the lavv Where the scripture speaking off one thing diuersly if it speake figuratiuely in one word vseth to speake properly in an other Where both by the wordes and practise of the church in other places I shewed the place off the Actes to be vnderstanded off reading and preaching iointly the D. not answering the reason saith that the place is euidently for him which is a begging off that in question that he can reade no interpreter which enterpreteth yt otherwise no one being browght which followeth that sense that the circumstance off the place maketh for him becawse Saint Iames vseth for a reason to proue that the Iewish ceremonies could not be forthwith abolished that Moses had by reading of the law euery Sabboth so great autority which is manifestly against him for it maketh more for the confirmation of S. Iames sentence that he was both redd and preached euery sabboth then if he had bene onely redd cōsidering that his authority was so much the deeper setled in the heartes off the Iewes Hytherto perteineth that in the end off his booke where he trifleth for that the Adm. expoundeth reading is not feading by this it is bare feading which is vnworthy answer considering it is receiued in all tounges often to deny that to be doon which is doon insufficiently as is before noted That also he saith there repeted p. 718. off dissent with my self for that saying there that bare reading withowt a miracle can not saue from famishement I say in an other place that the word off God is easy giuing vnderstanding to idiots is friuolous Considering that I spake off reading not vtterly separate from preaching Yf it be easy and gyue vnderstanding by preaching and reading togither although not so by reading onely that standeth which I haue set downe That he exclameth off that sentence as Papisticall c. I haue shewed how it is catholike and his Papisticall that maketh so easy a way to saluatiō withowt preaching yt is well with vs and the scriptures kepe their honour if they bring to the elect saluatiō vsed and applied as the order which the lord hath set requireth onles paraduenture he will say the holy Sacramētes leese their honour when it is saied they are not effectuall to saluacion without men be instructed by preaching before they be partakers off them Hauing shewed that bare reading off scriptures can not make vnpreaching ministers occupy any place in the church remaineth yet the reading of Homilies with the Apocrypha in which couer is sowght for thē against the sentēce of condēnatiō and storme of the Lordes wrathfull iudgement which will follow if they repēt not speedely for where thes dry nources haue no milke of their owne the D. will haue thē yet giue sucke although of the becastes of others But this kinde off milke hauing taken winde shall appeare not to be so fit to nourish as that it may come into the church for a supply of sermone yt is enough if as for support off the nource sometimes other then hers be taken so to spare the pastor hardly able euery day to preach the godly Christian strenghthen him self with them at home In which treatise first cometh the D. reason Augustin and Chrysostome preached sermons in their churches therfore we may reade sermons in ours The absurditie wheroff lest it should be hidden he hath made a great deale bigger for charged with it he answereth that the committing them by writing vnto posterity argueth that they thought them very profitable vnto the church so that his argument is they are profitable therfore they may be red publikely in the church As if there were no profit reaped by reading thē priuatly or as if al thinges profitable for the church may be red openly in yt where are browght in to publike reading whole cartlodes off disputations of the Catholikes with Papistes ▪ Anabaptistes Arians likewise of Ecclesiasticall stories a hudge heape and other rables of heritikes and schismatikes which being profitable haue the D. ladder to clime vp into the pulpit But one thing we may note ▪ what is that that August and Chrysostom writ their sermons therfore it may be they red them sometimes in the church If yow be in earnest in earnest yow are a sleepe For so far be yow from concluding iustly that it is meet to reade them in the church that yow conclude not they were so much as red I pray yow haue any off our homilimakers red their homilies in the churches I thinck not onles it haue bene since yow wrote to make yowr argument seeme good So in thincking to make one note yow make two shamefull blots yow see not why they may not aswell now be red in the church as then preached a pitifull blindnes wheroff the remedy if yow will open yow eyes followeth Now to come to the 3. chap. Tract 21. The first and second diu be not worth the answer the third is answered except that he saith the Adm. proued not the sufficiency off the scripture by 1. Cor 1. 18. 1. Ro. 16. becawse there be manifest places for that pourpose as though it were thus to be charged if it vsed places which proue that although not the fittest Where vppon that the Lord admitteth no instrumētes be they neuer so vile in the seruice of the temple nor trūpets in assembling the people but
vvhich vvere sanctified to that vse although others vvere as apt to doo the vvorcke as they I concluded that homilies c. not sanctified of the Lord to that pourpose ovvght to be kept ovvt he answereth that similitudes be no sufficient proofe and that the Lord did not commaund that nothing should be red in the church but canonicall scripture not remembring that it is the holy ghostes which teacheth that the tabernacle with the vessels were made according to the patron off the church now The which in the holy trumpetes is more clearly seen considering that the holy gost commaunding them to be blowen by the priestes alone and comparing the publicke teaching with the sound off them doth not obscurely declare that they were shadowes therof Therfore as the trumpetâ— were sancrified to the temple by the commaundement off God so to make Homilies holy in Gods principall and publicke seruice the like autoritie is required Where I shew that nether homilies nor Apocrypha are to be compared in goodneâ— in themselues nor in fruict tovvard the hearer vvith the scripture and reading theroff wherin the D. laboured not but â—oâ—â—ered against the Adm. he answereth that nothing can therby be concluded against homilies which may not be against sermons and other interpretations and rather against sermons then homilies which is detestable For therby he affirmeth that homilies are both better in them selues and red more fruictfull to the hearers then the word off God preached Wherin he controileth also the order off our church which will haue homilies gyue place â—f there be any to preach For confutacion wheroff I send the reader to that before disputed â–ª for if the word preached be more fruictfull then the word yt selff red then reading off homilies inferior in fruict to the reading of scriptures by the D. confession heere must be muche more inferior to the word preached His reason is for I make no make no other difference betwixt homilies and sermons but that one is pronounced within booke the other not so Belike homilies and sermons are equall in all other thinges yet homilies excell sermons in that they are red in the booke the other is doon by liuely voice But is there no difference at all but this first â—et hâ—m vnderstand that sermons in the churche are expresly commaunded off the Lord are such as are necessary for all churches and which no one can want As for homilies if they were in this dearth off preaching graunted conuenient for our church yet haue they no commaundement wherby they are made necessary and such as the church is bound vnto they also are such as ether all or the most florishing churches haue not In which difference there is as great a goulf between them as is betwen heauen and earth I speake off them now as if they were conueniently ordeined For although in such case during the conuenience they ought to be kept as profitable orders off the church yt thes chaungeable constitutions compared with the eternall sawe off God are infinitely inferior so it is vtterly false which he saith afterward all kinde off publishing the doctrine in scripture haue necessary vses in the church Wherby he maketh thinges necessary to saluaceoÌ„ nether expressed nor necessarily concluded of the scripture and condeÌ„neth in this behalf all churches which ether haue bene or are not receiuing the vse off homilies Thus one 's the singular fruict off preaching the word is manifest to be so much greater then homilies reading as the meanes ordeined off the lord is more fruictful then that off men Secondly if they were conuenient yet they might both be made and publickely red withowt any of those ordinary ministeries which the lord hath appointed in his word for a priuate maÌ„ may write them as he may doo a commentary and if a minister make them yet he doth nor that by bond off his ministery for then he should leaue a part off it vndoon which wrote not homilies and hauing doon all other partes should be gilty off the not fulfilling off it for omitting this seing therfore there is no commaunded ministery off God required nether in making nor reading of them and sermoÌ„s can not be made withowt there is heere an other singular difference lifting vp preaching with the fruict theroff so far aboue homilies red â–ª as the Lordes autorised Embassadour with his broad seale and letters patentes is aboue him in whom no such markes appeare withowt whose ministery when as I haue shewed faith can not be engendred nor men ordinarily saued there being plentifull saluacioÌ„ withowt homilies reading as appeareth both otherwise and by other churches where they are not the difference of preaching with the fruict theroff is incomparably more then that by homilies reading The third difference is that where sermons are applied to the present circumstance which by chaunge off times budding off new vices rising of errors c. vary almost euery day this kinde off interpretation as that which is starcke and annuÌ„med can not poursue them for where the preacher with his sermon is able according to the manifold windinges and turninges of sinne to winde and turne in with yt to th end he may stricke it the homilies are not able to turne nether off the right hand nor off the left but to what quarter soeuer the enemies are retyred yt must keepe the traine wherin it was set off the maker And if it were possible which is not to make homilies against all diseases off vices and errors and that were also graunted that the reading ministers could both discerne the sickenes and apply the medicine laied vp in the homily which requireth the skill off a learned man yet as no physicion how cunning soeuer can so well prescribe at ones and in grosse against a disease as he that vpon euery step yt maketh giueth counseill and applieth his medicine so no homily maker be he neuer so great a diuine can at ones and before hand prescribe so apt and stroÌ„g remedies against sinne as he that doth yt vpon the present occasion Homilies then not able to comme to the vices further then vices coÌ„me to them their vse for this and other cawses aforesaied is priuate For a maÌ„ feeling him self assaulted in any wise and knowing a treatise arming him against that assault may for his vse be profitably occupied in it I leaue the difference in giftes instrumentall causes off sermons and homilies when as beside the giftes required in homilies ether reading or making there are in sermons required the gift off vtterance and memory I passe also that the D. in saying there is no difference between an homily red and a sermon preached but that the one is pronounced within booke the other not so maketh no differeÌ„ce between hym that writeth his sermon and readeth it and him that readeth an other manÌ„es not able to make one him self this shall be sufficlent to haue shewed that absurdity Where also goe to the ground other
grammers head seing Aristotle teacheth that the numbre of three is the least numbre that this vvord all can be verifyed off Where yow saied Christ did not say no man shall be great amongest thē my answer was that he had saied that before and needed not to repete it wherunto yow answer nothing The place I alledged owt of S. Luke ouerthroweth yowr answer For if by thes wordes vvhosoeuer vvill be great desire off dominion had bene onely found fault with then he would not haue spokē simply vvhosoeuer amongest yovv withowt adding any thing off ambitiō or desire to rule and to this yow answer nothing but couer yowr self onely with Musc autoritie For where yow say yow spake as the wordes be ▪ yow vnderstand well that they doo not specifie any ambitiō which yow must needes meane or els yow mainteine not yowr answer Where yow say S. Lukes wordes make against me as which insinuate that there must be some great amongest them yow take it otherwise then it is For if yow will not admit the interpretacion I alledged in referring this greatnes vnto excellency of gyftes one aboue an other nor Cal. interpretation sauoreth not in yowr tast that it is as much as if our Sauiour should say yovvr greatnes excellency and dignitie shal be in submitting yovvr selues vnto yovv brethren yet yow vvill not refuse Bucer vvhom yow here build vpon vvhich by great in this place vnderstandeth him that is elder in age and proueth it by the word younger opposed to him And it is not vnlike but one of those reasons wherby some off those disciples would haue grounded their principalitie ouer other their fellowes vvas for that they vvere auncienter in yeares Which soeuer of thes expositions yow admit yow see that to be great here signifieth nothing les then any dominion off one minister ouer another First the Ans saith that I goe about to proue that our Sauiour Christ doth not reproue thambition off his disciples vvhich is a manifest vntruth For I say that he doth reproue it and gyue also larger place to the reproofe off their ambition then he for vvhere he would haue it to consist onely in that they ambitiously desired to rule ouer their fellowes I affirme that he did not onely take them vp for that but also that they desired to rule one ouer an other which was not lawfull Secondly he saith I haue falsified his wordes in that I father off him that our Sauiour reprehended onely thambition of his disciples vvhich I doo not for my vvordes ascribe vnto him that he saied they vvere reproued not onely for desire off rule but for rule to oppresse Then to maintein this quarrell he affirmeth he saied our Sauiour reproueth the tirannicall rule off kinges off the Gentills as thowgh that made any thing to proue that he did in his disciples onely reproue ambition For reproofe of oppression in kinges vvas not part off reprehension off the disciples Moreouer he coulde not be ignorant by the course off disputation that vvhen I saied yf ambition onely vvere reprehended in the disciples I ment that if our S. Christ had forbidden his disciples ambitious desyre off rule one ouer an other and not rule it self which doth manifestly towch the cawse Thus partly with a manifest vntruth partly with a trifling cauil which if it were true maketh nether whoat nor kold it seemeth he would haue cast a mist before his readers eies that he should not see him giue the slip from my first argument in this diuis For vnto this reason that in that sense off the place vvhich he setteth dovvne the ansvver off our Sauiour Christ shoulde not haue benefit considering the Disciples might haue replied that he forbad tyrannicall rule of their inferiours but they desyred moderate and vvell ruled gouernement he answereth not a word To his answer vnto the second reason that they are called bountifull which haue no sparck of bountifulnes I replie that althowgh that may sometimes come to passe yet it shoulde haue bene owt of time to haue made mention of it here in that sense For if as yow say our Sauiour speake here against the tirannie and ambition of Princes then it was owt off place to make mention off the flatterie off their subiectes which call them by the title off bountifull For that is rather the fault off the subiectes then off the Princes If yow say that they desire that title first the wordes off S. Luke doo not beare it owt for he saith they are called gratious Lordes and not they desire to be so called Then it being a thing not simply vnlawfull for a Prince to desire to be called and counted bountifull to this end that by that fame men might be more seruiceable althowgh it should be graunted to yow that S. Luke ment that they desire that title yet forasmuch as there is no staine off ambition or tirannie in that desire yow are still behinde with yowr answer For yowr example off the Pope called most holiest c. yt is nothing like For men deceiued by error call hym so and althowgh they say vntruly yet they speake as they thinck which can not be in this case considering that no man can be abused by a false opinion off his bountifulnes which not onely giueth not but is an oppressor And although as there are found which knowing the wickednes off the Pope call him notwithstanding most holy so there be vvhich knowing the illiberalitie off their Princes call them notwithstanding bountifull yet yow should haue considered that S. Luke speaketh not here how Princes are called off certein particular persons but by what titles they are called generally of all their subiectes So that if yow would haue spokê to pourpose yow should haue shewed that it is a cōmen thing for tyrantes to be called generally of their subiectes whom they pill bountifull and that vvhich is harder for yow to doo that men will call ministers bountifull which giue nothing Otherwise the interpretation vvhich yow imagine hath no place To my third reason that it is not to be thovvght off all the Apostles that they desyred rule one ouer another to the end they might vse crueltie and oppression ouer their fellovves he answereth not a vvord It may be as I haue shewed gathered off the scripture which is not expressed in it els how take yow vpon yow to set downe that the 10. were as ambitious in disdayning as the 2. were in desiring seing that is not expressed If I be deceiued in thincking that those greek wordes be all one I am deceiued with the Grecians for so I haue red And if yowr autoritie were any in this case yet it is suspected and therfore needed better proof then yowr bare vvord and albeit it vvere true that the one hath sometime a more larger vse then the other yet hereit appeareth that the indignation off these Apostles vvas such as Aristotle defineth thother vvord by that is
set downe off the Ans He saith it is a poore refuge to discredite the autor I spared the autor casting part of the error vpoÌ„ the times wherin he liued which I proued corrupter and further from the truth left by thapostles by a reason which he could not so much as wrangle with althowgh as towching the proofe off an archbishop or bishop suche as ours I am content the Ans set vp his credit as much as he will. He saith there is no difference betwene Cyprians bisbop and Ieromes Seing he will needes haue it so let one measure be off both and therby I trust shall appeare off that which I haue spoken before that Ieromes bishop is lower by heade and shoulders then they for whom his autoritie is houlden owt Howbeit if in Cyprians time the bishop onely had not the laying on of handes and ordeining him that was chosen to the ministrie by the church but the Elders and he did nothing in his church or parish but vvith aduise of the Elders theroff yt appeareth that Ieromes bishop althowgh differing onely from an other minister in ordeining Elders and Deacons had somwhat encroched vpon the boundes off the presbitery more then Cyprians Lastly he saith for the corruption off times this kinde of bishop was deuised I willingly giue testimonie vnto those gouernours or at least the most off them that they had a good meaning in that inuention off man but that it was remedy against the corruptions I deny And to the reasons before alledged for proofe therof let this be added that euen from the first day wherin this deuise was established the corruption in the church was not deminished but grew and got strenght by litle vntill the whole face of the earth was couered and the power off darcknes in the fulnes off Antichristes kingdome wholy setled Likewise that the first resistance by any setled church against that corruption was by those which abolished that deuise off man and receiued the order in the Apostels times towching the equalitie off ministers As the Bohemians Merindoles the churches in Germany and Geneua whose standerd bearers as partly hath appeareth and more hereafter shall fowght against this stately dominion both of bishops and archbishops The next diuis I leaue to the readers iudgement referring him to that answered in the beginning In the next as one whose forehead is more hard then Adamant he shameth not still to affirme that this manner off bishop and archbishop was in the Apostles time notwithstanding the autor owt off whom he draweth his proofes confesseth that at the first there was no difference betwene a bishop and an Elder and that after it was decreed that in euery church one onely should haue the name of bishop Yf it were the first institution that they shoulde be one and the first institution be the Apostels institution it was the Apostels institution that they shoulde be all one yf the Apostels did reuoke this institution off theirs shewe their handes bringe forthe their euidence Ierome prouethe by diuers testimonies off scripture that a bishop and elder were one according to S. Paul. Therfore if the D. auoide this autoritie he must shewe vs the Apostels autoritie in writing for herin yt is trwe that the lawe saith matter of vvriting and recorde can not be auoided but by that of as high a nature He gathereth that this order of bishops and archbis was in thapostles times because there were schismes then I haue by this reason proued in an other place that thâ—â—e were no archbishops where if he had any thinge he should haue spoken And how is he bewitched which seeth not the wordes of his autor For when Ierome saith this came by custome he euidently declareth that â—â— was not by determinacion of the Apostels The same declareth Augustin when he saith the office of a bishop vvas greater then off an other mynister as tovvching the names off honor throvvghe a custome off the churche vvhich novve hathe gotteÌ„ the vpper hand Likewise when Ierome saithe this preferment of the bishop is not by any necessitie of lavve but for that yt vvas graunted to honor him vvithall yt ys manifeste that yt was not by the Apostlels determinacion For yf yt had bene their institution yt had bene necessarie After admitting yt was after the Apostels he procedeth to answer Tertullian which saithe that ys true vvhich is first that ys false vvhich is later But how cometh yt to passe that he anwereth not that alledged owte off our Sauiour Christes e wordes which calleth the Pharisies vnto the firste institution that was belike to harde for him to byte vpon And the answer vnto Tertullian is absurde For he bringeth him in reasoning as he vseth that is prouing the thinge in controuersie by that a like doubtefull For if the rule of Tertullian extende yt selfe no further then vnto thinges he there speaketh of and in debate his reason is no reason but a giddie turne aboute wherin altowghe greate paines be taken yet there is no grownde gotten Wheras Tertullian proue the that Praxeas iudgement of our Sau. Christe was therfore naught because yt was new aÌ„d new because yt was not agreing with that gyuen by the scripture Moreouer his answer to the place presumeth that the gouernement off the churche is not a matter off faithe and saluacion which is the question And as for his Phantasies he resembleth my reason with they haue nothing like For beside that there were Christian magistrates baptisinges in churches coÌ„munion ministred vnto more then 12 â–ª in thapostels times and off their alowance the Apostels neuer tawght that there should be no ChristiaÌ„ magistrates no baptisinges hut in riuers no eating off thinges strangled c. the contrary off all which they plainly taught ordeining onely that the Gentils should support the Iewes in strangled thinges abut they rawght that a bishop and traching elder be all one and neuer alowed that one Pastor shoulde take the name off a bishop from all his fellows within 40. myles compas The testimonie owt off Tertull maketh way for Montanus heresie wherof I haue spoken beforé Vnto the nexte diuis he answereth not For yt being plaine that the Apostels tawght that a bishop and elder were all one because he had nothinge to answer he leueth that and runnethe backe to that handled in the beginning off the equalitie off ministers As for the testimonie owte of Zuinglius firste yt is vntrw that the Anabaptistes obiecte this place againste Zuinglius which I haue pressed him with secondly yt is vntrue that they obiected vnto him in the like case which wee doo for in all their controuersies with him they haue not one of those pointes now debated And where he saith Tertullians wordes serue not because thes degrees are not againste the truth let him denie if he dare that this is the truth off God that a Bishop and an other minister off the word be all
As thowgh if the matter had bene committed to S. Paul onely it should not haue bene with the same bond off keping him to the word yet yt was not so committed as I haue alledged And if he think more succour for him in the wordes he vsed the archbishop must determin according to the rule of the church it is certein also that the companie of Apostles and Elders in Ierusalem and what companie soeuer meeteth together abowt the ending of such matters is subiect vnto all lawful and commendable orders off the churche prouided for the more orderly proceding in that behalf So that there being nothing here alledged by the D. which agreeth not vnto the Apostles and Angels themselues the excessiue autoritie off tharchbishop doth still appeare in that he alone endeth controuersies which in the Apostolike church was not committed but vnto many For as for that in the next diuis he compoundeth not controuersies by him self alone onles he meane that he hath his seruantes the Chaunceler and Archdeacon or some other off his owne châ—â—sâ— â–ª the booke set owt by tharchbishop of late doth declare the coÌ„trary and the experience off his visitacions and deposing off ministers doth openly conuince him of vntruth If he say he is not alone he hath them following him he must vnderstaÌ„d that becawse ether the archbishop carieth their voices vnder his girdell or yf they vse the freedome which is meet yet the approbacion dependeth vpon the archbishops beck he can no more account them to be diuers then a maÌ„ and his shadow following him And where in his former booke he saith the cheif office off an archbishop is to compound contentions schismes c. here being put to his shift he changeth his speach saying it is his principall office to prouide that contentions c. be cut of Where he addeth or els with the Princes consent he setteth an order in a prouinciall Synode If there be any Synode ether to take the iudgement owt off his hand or controll the sentence gyuen by him it is like to be sore against his will. So that the remedy off this mischief dependeth onely vpon the Cyuill power which if ether yt be ennemy to religion or entangled with the present heresie as hath and may herafter come to passe the churche being withowt remedy must languish and pyne away He saith this example of the matter caried to Ierusalem proueth that euery parish within yt self hath no absolute autoritie to end controuersies but it behoueth to resort vnto the cheif church the contrary wherof appeareth For in that they both debated the cawse amongest them selues and when they coulde not agree decreed to send yt to Ierusalem yt ys sufficiently declared that they had autoritie to end it amongeste them and that yt was not wrunge from them by necessitie off law or pretence off higher autoritie but voluntarily sent vp to Ierusalem Althowgh for this place in hand yt ys sufficient that the deciding off controuersies hung not vppon the mouth off one man were he neuer so sufficient but were referred vnto thassemblies of the Auncients and ministers of the word As for his olde shiftes of the weaknes of negatiue argumentes of autoritie and of examples of the scripture and thapostolike church their folie is opened before Here he taketh on against my vnskilfulnes in the scriptures which referred that vnto ministers which is spoken off all the church Howbeit if he had coÌ„ferred the text he should haue found that thapostle speaketh of the Prophe thes and not of the whole church For he biddeth that tvvo or three of the Prophetes should speake and the other that is to say Prophetes should gyue iudgement Which appeareth by the reasoÌ„ added the sprite off the Prophetes is subiect to the Prophetes Therfore the D. corrupteth the place and the argument to proue that not one minster but many owght to determin of doutfull causes is vntowched Where I pressed him with this that vnitie is fully mainteined by the ministeries vvhich God hath ordeined â–ª he asketh how oft I will alledge it Yf it be a fault in me to alledge one place often vpon diuers occasions what is it in him to alledge one thing so continually vppon the same occasion If he would haue opened his eyes he should haue seen that I vsed an argument proper to this place and not vsed before For where he pretendeth the archbishop was ordeined to kepe vnitie I shew that withowt him vnitie is perfectly kept wherunto he answereth nothing but as before But I will serue his tast and giue him change For the Apostle a litle before exhorting to vnitie bringeth also this reason one body one spirit one hope one Lord one faith one baptisme one God c. Wherby appeareth that the apostle tooke thes ones to be sufficient to kepe the people off God in vnitie And if to haue an archbishop had bene so necessary the apostle shoulde haue fowly forgotten him self hauing so fit a place to speake of him And as this is aptly opposed against the pretended peace by a Pope so is yt likewise against that surmised to be browght by the archbishop Where I ask vvhat buckler vve may haue to hould ovvt against the Papistes vvhich come vpon vs vvith the name of traditions off the apostles if vve admit that there vvere archbishops ordeined by them vvherof the scripture maketh no mention he answereth there can be no daunger in them so they be not made necessarie to saluacion but such as receiue alteracion Which althowgh it be cleane contrary to that he saide before where he bindeth vs to obseruation of them as I haue shewed yet it shall be sufficient here to let him vnderstand that he hath vtterly barred him self from this answer for that he saith this ministrie of the Archbishop is necessarie yea most necessarie Now if it be most necessarie for preseruacion of vnitie off the church yt is plaine that it is necessarie also for the saluacion of yt For the next diuis I haue shewed how absurdly the D. defendeth this rouing where let the reader iudge what difference there is betwene our archbishop and Ieromes bishop which differed nothing from a commen minister but that he had the ordeining off ministers And here I call once againe vpon him to shew any godly and learned writer which expoundeth this place of Ierome off an archbishop to see if he be any happier in this place then he was before in Cyprians The Bishop off Salisb affirmeth that the very meaning off Ierome is off euery bishop in his dioces and Harding in the end beaten downe with the light off the place is compelled to confesse it The next I leaue to the reader to iudge by that alledged on both sides The D. saith I refuse Ierome in a matter off storie yet I denie no part off his storie wherin he seemeth to haue lost all commensense For who in
Cyprian which by one priest in the churche vnderstandeth one onely bishop in a church for therby it foloweth that ether there was but onely one priest in the church of Carthage or els thes wordes bishop and prieste were all one so that whosoeuer was one was the other The nexte diuision hath not a worde to purpose for autorities are quoted to proue that the Apostels apointed Bishops in diuers churches which no man denieth yea I haue namely alledged yt before Where I shew that forsomuche as the Archdeacon is reproued of Ierome for preferring him sefe before an elder because the scripture maketh him inferior vnto the elder by the same reason a bishop is to be reproued for that he preferreth himself before an elder which the scripture maketh his equall he answereth he seeth no sequell nor likelihoode notwithstanding I truste there is none that hathe but his commen sense which dooth not easely vnderstande that yt is no more lawfull for those which are ordeined equalls by the scripture to lifte them selues one aboue an other then yt is lawfull for him that is apointed to be vnder to exalte him selfe aboue his superior for althowghe he be in greater faulte which being vnder exalteth him selfe aboue then he which magnifieth him selfe aboue his equall yet as the ordinance off God cawseth the one to be vnlawfull so yt doothe the other The seconde answer is there maie be degrees amongeste the ministers notwithstanding all this for that Ierome saithe there was a degree This is a verie blunt answer I alledge bothe autoritie off the scripture and Ieromes owne reason againste the distinction off one bishop from the reste and he answereth that the distinction is good for Ierome so saith Thirdly althowgh Ierome confesse that a bishop and an elder be all one by the scripture yet he confesseth superioritie off a bishop before an other elder but he saith they are all one by the scripture and that the bishop is superior by coustome And here he stitchethe in a parenthesis For after he had alledged Ierome confessing that a bishop and an elder are all one by scripture he addeth as they be in deede towching the ministerie Therby desirous as yt seemeth to abuse his symple reader in making him belieue that Ierome mente that there was by the scripture difference in policie betweene a bishop and an other mynister which ouerthroweth the whole intente of Ierome For he sheweth that this difference which the D. in other places termeth for order and Policie betwene a bishop ād an other minister was not by the scripture but by coustome and beganne at Alexandria And seing Ierome putteth a difference betwene the bishop specified in S. Paul and the bishop in his time yf the Answ say that S. Paules bishop differed frō an other minister as towching order and policie I would gladly knowe of him how Ieromes bishop and he which is now differeth from an other minister Yf he answer as he hath doone before that they differ not as towching the ministery but as towching order and policie thē he putteth no differēce betwene S. Paules bishop and Ieromes which is ouerthrow of all that Ierome saith and he hath flatly affirmed where he maketh Ieromes bishop instituted by the churche after the Apostels times After he blusheth not to saie that Ierome makethe a difference betwene S. Paules bishop and another minister For althowghe he broilethe and mingleth all vpon a heape thincking throwgh confusion off all to cawse his treachery not to be seen yet after he doth plainly vtter yt in answering Chrysostomes wordes the same with Ieromes But before I come to his reasons wherby he would proue this I will set downe the wordes off Ierome wherby his vnhoneste dealing maie be better perceiued First he saith a ministre that is to say a bishop and a litle after the Apostle dothe plainly teache that a bishop and a minister are all one And in an other place a Bishop and a minister are the same againe althovvghe vvith the auncient fathers bishops and elders vvere all one Here appeareth manifestly that Ierome saith a bishop and an other minister be all one with the Apostell and with the auncient times that he expoundethe one by the other that he turneth one off them vpon an other for as he saith that bishops be ministers so he affirmeth that mynisters be bishops Nowe of the twoo reasons to proue that Ierome put a difference betweene a bishop and an elder this is the firste the one is a name of age and the other of dignitie which is asmuch to saie as they differ in deede because they differ in name and that the auncientes and elders off the people off Israell were not their gouernours because the name aff auncientes is a name off age and the other of honor or as if the eldest brother were not the heir because the one is a name of age the other of honor Wheras Ieromes purpose is plainly to shew that althowgh the names be diuers yet the thinges are all one And yf there be anie dignitie shut vp in this name bishop the ministers are partakers of it considering that he affirmeth that they be bishops And if there be any inferioritie noted by the name off elder the bishop hathe his parte in yt for so muche as he is an elder Althowghe the trwthe is that by the worde dignitie Ierome mente nothing but an office and called the name off bishop the name off a dignitie becawse the office drawethe dignitie with yt And because of reuerence which the yonger giue to thelder as also for that ministers and bishops were often taken from them whiche were well growne in age they were called elders So that althowgh the name elder be the name off age yet yt draweth as muche honor after yt as the name off bishop His other reason is Ierome saithe an elder is conteined in a bishop which he bringeth as a proofe to shew that Deacons are therfore vnder elders because elders and bishops be all one with S. Paul. So that he hath not onely depraued Ieromes minde but drawne his wordes to a cleane contrarie sense of that he ment for euen by the same wordes wherby Ierome woulde proue they be all one he would proue them diuers And althowghe Ieromes maner of speache here be somewhat harde for that purpose considering that thinges which are all one can not properly be saide to conteine one another yet bothe by his plaine wordes in other places and manifest suite off his disputation he made his meaning so well knowne that no man onles willing coulde stumble at his phrase And if the D. will thus hunt at syllables yet this speache off Ieromes is so farre from helpinge him that yt dooth vtterly ouerthrow all his houlde he snatcheth at For where he vpon thes wordes in a bishop is conteined an elder would conclude that euery bishop is a minister but not euery minister a
Wherby also foloweth that where the popular estate or the rule of the beste beareth swaie they can not althowghe they vvould haue an archbishop yea herupon foloweth that ether the Canterbury or Yorke archbishop muste leese his head For yt is concluded off his highe diuinitie that as there is but one prince in the whole Realme so there muste be but one Archbishop His reason the Prince can not els be supreme gouernour off all estates and causes ecclesiasticall to say no more is senseles and hath no knot with that wherunto yt belongeth As if vvhen Roome had both Emperours and consules the Emperour could not be cheife gouernour off the consuls because the Consuls were equall amongest themselues I confessed yt vnconuenient that there should be one Caesar ouer the worlde but that yt may be he alledgeth Caluin that yt is moste absurd to what pourpose what contrarietie is here yt is enowghe for me that there may be and that lawfully a Prince of larger extent of dominion then the archbishop of his archbishopricke althowghe the prince vvould graunte yt him which vtterly ouerthroweth his cause and this being alledged off me afterward is clean passed by For his defense consisteth in this that the Popes widenes off iurisdiction ouer churches ys vnlawfull because he hath yt not of the gifte off Princes and in this that the externall gouernement of the church must be according to the forme and kinde off gouernement in the commen wealth Which is also manyfestly confuted there whence he hath borowed this temony For there he addeth that althowgh yt were graunted that there might be one Caesar ouer all the worlde yet yt followeth not that there may be one bishop ouer all the churches which notwithstanding muste needes folowe if the externall gouernement off the church muste be according to that forme and kinde off gouernement vsed in the commen wealth a For the distinction which supposeth certein ministers of the word and Sacramētes onely and certein to haue to gether with the administration off them the gouernemente also I refer the reader to that before written his vaine cauil that I desire to be vncontrolled off any but off God is answered The D. accuseth me off falsehood for that I charge bim with citing Augustine and Crysostome at large Towching Augustine that he vvas so alledged appeareth firste pag. 583. and both he and Chrysostom pag. 296. Where he saith he vsed that large quotacion onely once in Muscul Cyril and M. Fox he coulde hardly doo yt oftner in the two laste considering that as I remember he alledgeth them once onely but towching Muscul beside the place I charge him with he lefte his aduersary twise to his wide worckes Where he remembreth not that he sendeth to any other writers but with places quoted as particularly as he could his memory vvhich is so miraculouse at other times is here but miserable To helpe yt beside this place off Cal. he sendeth to his Institutes vvithowt any further restreinte as appeareth pag. 132. againe pag. 74. in his former booke for he hath quoted yt in this later Likewise that Damasus calleth Stephen Archdeacon withowt any direction pag. 344. Also alledgeth Gratian Polidore Volateran vvithowte any restreinte 589. pa. I omit that he sendeth towardes th end off his booke to the large feilde off godly interpreters that diuers times he gyueth the booke onely where he might gyue the chap. the chap. onely where he mighte giue the section all which are contrary to that he setteth downe Wherby may appeare what a hard mouth he hath and howe I speake sparingly off this kinde off allegation off his Charged heere by his fonde allegacion off Cal. Institut he answereth I knew there were sundry editions I did so but whether yt be absurd that he should leaue both the beste and moste vsual to take that which is worse and in the handes of fewe onles he mente to play vnder the boorde that men should not vnderstand I leaue to the readers iudgement His reason he had noted yt laboured it and was acqainted with yt is very simple For is yt meete that because he had made his booke a litle heuier with yncke he should be wedded so to yt as to neglecte the commen commoditie how he is acquainted with yt I knowe not but I trust yt hath and shall appeare that there is no more frendship betwene him and his booke in thes matters then betwene light and darknes But yt is foly to reason with him for he addeth Doctorlike that he both hath and will so vse yt still Howbeit how cometh yt to pas that euen in his former booke he hath alledged the later edition belike ether that was some tributary allegacion or els the latter was better to him there then his noted one Howe vniustly he chargeth me with vncerteine direction in ether all or the moste off thes he setteth downe I leaue to be iudged off that I haue said in that behalfe The reste off this diuis with the nexte is nothing but bare and bould affirmacions reproches and repetitions The nexte to it hath nothing but trifling and vnlerned questions before answered That set downe off the inconuenience off many speaking together according to the prouerbe many may sing but not speake at once is not as he saith needles but made way to the necessitie of hauing one which otherwise equal should haue some preheminence in that action The next hath nothing but railing wordes with repetition off repetitions and that beside the matter considering that the cautions I put off the moderator in the assembly off ministers I put not as alwais obserued off the D. Bishops and Archbishops but as those which owghte to be In asking scripture for proofe he dalieth seeking for that he would not find as the scholer the rod he must be beaten with The cocke a glorious and proud birde which will not suffer his victorie to be hidden but proclameth yt forthwith by crowing yet if he be ouercome hideth him selfe Wherin he sheweth a great deale more modestie then the D. which althowgh he haue neuer a spur of argument ether to defend him self or to offend his aduersary yet croweth as high as if the maistrie were in his hande But let yt goe let vs see his fighte To that I alledgrd of Peter chosen by the other Apostels to moderate the two firste actions notwithstanding yt be not set downe he answereth yt is wicked to grounde thalteration of the archbishop and our bishops gouernemente continued long and practised in the beste times of the church withowt yea contrary to the ground off scripture The long continuance onles they haue salte off the worde off God to preserue them argueth they be rotten and suche as caste an euill sauour That they were not in the beste times off the church hath before appeared whether yt haue ground owte off the worde that Peter was chosen by the Apostels
althowgh yt be not expressed yt may partly appeare by that disputation vppon 20 Math. for if all the Apostels were lefte of our Sauiour Christe in equall autoritiâ— â–ª ether Peter tooke that vppon him withowt callinge or els he receiued yt off the Apostels But the firste is confessed vntrw therfore yt hath grounde off the word off God that Saint Peter was chosen off the Apostels vnto the presidentship in those actions And as yt hath bene shewed owte off S. Mathew 20. that none off them was higher then other so off S. Peter yt appeareth particularly in that he and S. Iohn were sent by the colledge of the Apostels wheras if he had bene made cheife by our Sauiour and that from the ascention vnto his dying daie yt had not bene lawfull for the Apostels by making him their Embassadour to haue made him inferior to the resâ—dâ—w I know what the Papistes answer in this poincte but the D. bancke being discouered I thincke he will chaunge his creditors Where he saith yt is contrary to scripture because S. Peter 2. Act. so soudenly defended the Apostels againste the accusation off dronkennes as he coulde not tary for their voices it is ridiculous For I would know first what testimonie of scripture he hath to proue yt doon so soudenly Then who is so sensles as not to vnderstand that the eleuen standing with him could not in a trice ether by voice or finger lifted vp caste that charge off speaking then vpon Peter so that onles he did as it were take the Iewes wordes owte off their mouth no time could wante for that matter He saith further Act. the 1 and 15. considered yt shal appeare allwaies Peters office to speake firste and rule the action and that he was at no time chosen therto by voices much les at euery particular meeting which first is a grosse petition off that in question Then if wee were not hable to shewe by the worde that our S. Christe did not apoincte Peter cheife off the reste yet by what ether sentence or worde owte off the scripture is he hable to shewe that he was appoincted gouernour by him ouer all the reste during his liffe Thirdly to leaue Actes 15. disorderly alledged which is to be handled in the very nexte diuision let him shew vs how he can proue that S. Peter was cheif in that actioÌ„ of praier where yt ys said that all the Apostles lifted vp their voice likewise in the election of the deacons where the calling together off the disciples the exhortacion vnto them the praier for the Deacons chosen the laying on off handes is as indifferently giuen to all the reaste as to Peter All know that one conceiued the praier in the name off the reste that one was president in the election But that that was Peter more then ether Iohn or Iames or any the reste can not be shewed by one title off scripture yet our D. doth assure vs and as he saith owt off the scripture that Peter was the lodesman Where I shew that to suppose Peter not chosen by the Apostels to take vpoÌ„ him the gouernmeÌ„t is to doo him iniury he answereth he was appointed vnto yt off God and lawfully As if to be appointed off God and lawfully could not stand with the Apostels chusing of him or their electioÌ„ were not the electioÌ„ of god For if he meane he was chosen to yt by Christe imÌ„ediatly it is that in question wherof he bringeth not a lettre of proofe But this iudgemeÌ„t offmine hath no ground off scripture or ether learned or auncient autoritie What ground off scripture I haue let the reader iudge off that already and to be alledged in the next diuis For autoritie I haue shewed that Musculus whom he hath made his pillor in this behalfe affirming that Peter vvas in many places the cheife is againste him which saith he was alwaies cheife and for me as giuing therby to vnderstand that this cheiftie varied and was sometimes put vpon other Which is also confirmed by Caluin who in saying the Apostels gaue this vnto Peter for the moste parte that he should speake firste confirmeth both that he had his preheminence off the Apostels and that he had yt not alwaies Secondly I haue here alledged the Scoliaste that all vvas doone by commen consente Wherto he answereth he saith not Peter was at euery assembly chosen cheife which is vaine For if all were doone with consente then Peters forespeaking a parte of that which was done was likewise What wil he say to Gratian his good expounder which in this cause is more fauorable then the Papistes he hath folowed which fetch Peters cheifdome from our Sau. Christe for he confesseth that Peter vvas chosen by the Apostles Wher owte off the scoliaste I shewed that this presidentship off Peter vvas not doone imperiously vvith dominion or povvre he answereth no lawfull iurisdiction not of the king him selfe is so Which smelleth off Anabaptistrie and is before confuted For if the vvorde imperiously vvhich I vsed be taken often in euill parte yet may not I beseche yow a Prince doe princelike vvhich is the vvorde the Scoliast vseth may not the higher power doo thinges vvith powre both vvhich the Scoliaste denieth to haue bene done of Peter But there is in superioritie humilitie If you meane that Princes muste be humbly minded I graunte but yf you meane that humilitie in Princes will not suffer to commaund Princelike in thinges lawfull I denie yt He addeth that in rule and autoritie meaning ciuill there is seruitude If he meane to the lorde I graunte and then yt is nothing to the pourpose If that Kinges are seruantes vnto their peoples which onely can haue place here I denie yt for the cause before assigned Where wee see againe how the D. as if he led Princes in a stringe maketh them to beare vp my Lorde Archbishops traine For seing he seeth yt denied him to rule princelike or with powre for shifte off answer he wresteth the scepter owte of their hand saying the king him selfe may not doe so yf the Scoliast had said that Peter did nothing tyrannically nothing with oppression which two are aswel denied vnto Princes as to bishops then the D. answer would haue serued But when he saith he did nothing princelike nothing by povvr yt is manifest he tawght that the rule lawfull in Princes ouer their subiectes was not meete for Peter ouer the other Apostels Where he addeth the Scoliaste saith Peter rose c. as one that had receiued the Presidentship of the Apostels to let pas his translation which in steed off disciples vnderstanded of all the church hath put Apostles which was peculier then to the 11. he doth but daly For I deny not that Peter had receiued yt but that he had yt giuen off our Sau. Christe immediatly or during his liffe both which are in controuesie there is not a worde Where in the entrance
word and to hould cōmon consultation that therfore he estemed the whole dioces off London or Prouince off Canterbury where there are many thowsand parishes might conueniently grow into one particular bodie to be gouerned off one Pastor Truly this is but kolde reasoning Where I charged him with vnfaithefull dealing for leauing ovvt that vvvich Caluin noteth that the office off Archbis and Patriarck vvas rarely vsed to couer his vnfaithfullnes he alledgeth the later edition which hathe not that sentence Which is partly answered before but ad this also that euen the noted booke which he followed had thus muche off that sentence Althovvghe it may not be passed by in this disputation There wanted onely this it vvas very rarely vsed and that throwghe the printers fault considering that withowt yt there is no sence nor knot with that before or after Therfore if there had bene any loue of the trwthe in hym meeting with suche a gap he would haue sowght to haue made yt vpp in the later edition His shift Calu referrethe that to the patriarcke and not to the Archbishop because ther was smale cause off exercising his authoritie is onely said and in deede cōtrary to thanthors wordes ād meaning Wordes for that giuing that note off his disputation there which is bothe off the Archbishop and Patriarke yt muste follow by all likelihoode that the note also is of them bothe Against his meaning manifestly for he placing both their offices in propounding matters vnto the Synodes which for their hardnes could not be ended of few and gyuing them nothing to doo more then their fellowes but that it muste follow that the oftenest Synodes wherin the archbishop was president being rare and but twise a yeare his office also was off very rare vse Wherby appeareth that Caluins minde was to shew that the archbishops and Patriarches office endured onely but the time off the Synode which ended he had no autoritie but in commen with other bishops vntill the next synode So that althowgh they were not chosen at euery action yet Caluins iudgement standeth that both those offices were but off rare vse The D. onely trifleth in Hemingius For we affirme degrees off ministrie off the word graunt also that there were Patriarches but denie them to haue bene immediatly after the Apostles which Hemingius doth not as he vntruly saith affirme That that church abolishing the Patriarch and Archbishop kept the distinction betwene the bishop an other ministers off the word which the church browght in is confessed but that it owght not so to be is before declared althowgh the bishops there in respect off the height off ours are but dwarfes His answer to that Hemingius saith that S. Luke 22. putteth a difference betvvene the office off a Magistrat and ministers and that dominion is altogether takē avvay from these is very fonde His reason owt off the Hebr. is before answered so that his vnfaithfull dealing in Hemingius remaineth Yf there be no circunstance in M Fox alledged by the D. which gyue further answer I stand to that before made and refer it to the readers iudgement especially seing to that alledged where M. Fox flatly condemneth the degrees off primates metropolitanes and archbishops as ambicious the D. can not answer In saying he vvent about to corrupt him vvith his praise I doo M. Fox no iniurie yt being no fault to be assaulted but to be ouercome Whether I doo the D. any let the reader iudge The maintenance of the reply to the Bishop off Salisb answer towching certein Articles against the D. Chap. 4. Diuis 1. pag. 422. THat the Bishop is directly against the D. in affirming that there be no Apostles Euangelistes or Prophetes ys manifest his shift wherewith he would accord him self with the bishop is is before bewraied That the taking away off the Apostels Prophetes and Euangelistes hindreth not the perfect nomber off preaching ministers hath bene declared beside that yt is grosse to say that the diuision is not perfect because certein partes of it are not now extant as if the law of deuiding extended not it self to thinges both past and to come He that parteth the church into that before and vnder the Gospell doth he therfore make an euill particion because there is now no church before the Gospell that is vnder or before the law Here the D. leaueth the bishop to his owne defense towching that he affirmed a bishop not conteined in the place to the Ephes The diuision there being giuen as hath beue saied off those ministers onely vvhich vvith gouernement handle the vvord both here and in the fift diuision the D. doth but trifle in the examples off the elder and deacon seing we hould and will God willing shewe them not to haue to doo with the word Wher hereuppon he woulde bring in his archbishop and archdeacon yt is but repetition off that before where he hath āswer Yf there be a preaching elder not cōteined vnder a Pastor seing he maketh a Pastor and Doctor all one onles he fly to his phansie off Apostles c. there is by his saying a preaching ministerie not tawght in the scripture If there be let him shew it Where I gaue the Catechising vnto the Pastor I will haue it ment where there is no Doctor otherwise I haue in the second edition amended that assigning yt as more proper to the D. So that the Doctor being instituted to the Ephes he whom they called Catechist which tawght the groundes off religion ys likewise albeit S. Pa. calleth al māner of preaching Cathechising That publike reading in the church is as solēne a matter as Catechising the youth is a peece off the former phrensie reading is as good as preaching already confuted That a reader hath bene counted necessarie is saied withowt proof and if it were it was falsly counted there being no necessarie ministrie not specified in the scripture And when they were first notwithstanding them the church ministrie was as hath bene shewed deuided into bishops elders and deacons so that they came not then so much as into account of the ministries Yf they be conuenient at any time that there is scripture to warrant them euen as the Sexten that kept the church dore key hath bene shewed That the archbishops archdeacons and our bishops haue no succour by this being supposed the principalest ministeries and therfore such as owght to haue bene commaunded hath bene likewise disputed where thes colewortes are answered That the Deaconship as I take yt is no gouernement but a simple seruice is idly alledged cōtrary to nothing here set downe Yt may seeme against that alledged before where I comprehend it under the ministers which gouerne onely which I did not to set it in the same kinde off gouernement with the elders but for that yt ordering the church money and ouerseing the poore might in a generall signification be so called If the D. can
before yt came into the church off the Christians yt vvas as diuers other corruptions taken off them by imitation whether a thirde and more higher cawse theroff were that the brauery of the pourpled vvhore of Rome might bothe easelier take her seate and faster houlde yt vvhilest other bishops vvere made somevvhat sutable vnto her vvhich she could not haue done if other bishops left in the simplicitie vvherin God had apointed them she had bene as an ovvle amoÌ„gest the reste of the birdes I say whether these three are amongest the causes off bringing in the bishops pompe into the churche I leaue to the readers iudgement Considering that the D. beside begging and dissembling the matter which I goo abowte to proue hathe nothing That Christians might aswel be thowght to haue folowed Maximinus in building churches as in sufficiently prouiding for the ministers ys to simple seing we deny hym not sufficient prouision But if he esteme nothing sufficient onles he be mainteined as a lord let him learn off S. Paul what is sufficient and so he shal I doubt not fall from his 1000. to a 100. vnto thes three causes off the bishoplike statelines I will heer ad the fourth worthy to be obserued M. Bucer shewing the incommodities which came by that the bishops vvere receiued to bear ciuill offices saith after they began to occupie the place off princes they chalenged also to them selues their pompe and brauery So let the reader iudg how trw yt ys that I said that our archbishops bishops c. besides the names haue almost nothing commenvvith those of elder times and hovv if the old bishops vvere aliue they vvould not knovv one annother For that they vvould thinke ours princes and ours vvoulde esteme them as hedge priÌ„estes What I allow off the oulde Canons and what I disalow althowgh he dissemble yet he knoweth better then he would I hauing at large declared yt in this Tractate The first diuis I oâ—â—it In the next to that the Apostle called the Corint to a moâ—â—rate estimacion of the ministers meane betvveen contempt and to much exalting them vpon occasion that the false Apostels were to much lifted vp he saith yt was a partial affection to wardes their teachers not in respect off any title which is friuolous for if it be denied generally that they shoulde not be so mounted then the way is stopped against titles and offices and other meanes whatsoeuer wherby that may grow Beside that the D. is afraied as appeareth by his answer to be browght vnto a moderation and meane betvvene contempt and excessiue estimacion Where I shew that as the false Apostels pompe in preaching lifting them vp aboue the faithfull ministers caused the faithful ministers to be contemned so the pompe of our bishops lifted vp aboue the rest off the pastors to be a ready vvay to bringe their mynisterie ovvt off credit and that as that gaue occasion to the Corinthes to saie I houlde off suche a teacher c. so this giueth occasion to say I vvil beleue my Lord Bishop or my lord Archbishop vvhatsoeuer our parson say for they be vvise men and learned I say to all this beside wandring and vnlikely slaunders there is not a word seing I trust it appearethe to all that we giue no occasion by any pompe that the people in magnifying off vs should condemne others The next diuision I leaue to the reader Where against the D. slaunder off the Admonitions intent to take away princes I shewed that his practise against vs is the same vvith the Pharisies against our Sauiour Christ vvhich being rubbed for their ambition accused him as no friend off Cesar He answerethe that we are not Christ which is ridiculous that the case is not like whereof let the reader iudge seing he is as they were honour pricked Whether our Archbishop dvvell as far asonder almost from the ciuil magistrate as Rome and Ierusalem let the reader iudge off that alledged likewise what a coÌ„ning stargaser the D. is which saw in the star off my forehead that the admonition intended the ouerthrow off the ciuill magistrate The nexte off the canon off Antioche Councel is answered but where I shew that that Canon is not like to be iustifiable considering that it sovvght falsely â—â—edite off the name off the apostels he answereth not Onles this be his answer that yt is the naturall Canon off the apostels And in deede his wordes so sound for thus he saithe That canon off the Apostels is repeated in this councel as diuers off the Nice be repeated off other councels Which how shamfully yt is spoken may appeare off that we haue before disputed off the antiquitie off the metropolitane How dangerously to the ouerthrow off our faithe whilest we are borne in hand that there be canons of the Apostels not coÌ„teined in the canonicall scripture al that haue iudgement may vnderstand and yt is in parte before declared I omit that yt is cleane contrary to his doctrine off the archbishop wherby he maketh him an officer changeable at the wil of the Prince For if that be thApostles Canon there is no ministery in the holde scripture which hathe better euidence for an vnchangeable perpetuitie then yt That M. Bucer is wholy for vs in this point I refer the reader to that before written The place alledged here would haue made litle for him if he had not kepte his custome For where Bucer speaketh off obedience to be gyuen by the bishops to the metropolitan he hath left owt these wordes after their maner By vvhich conning he may proue the Acthiopian afaire man because he hath white teeth For all see that M. Bucer by these wordes delaied the autoritie off the metropolitanship And if they were not plaine enowgh yet others in the same place are that the patriarches vvere set ouer the metropolitanes as they ouer the bisho â–ª but that nether could doe any thing saue onely admonish those ouer vvhoÌ„ they vvere set aÌ„d if they obeied not to complaine of them to the synod After he condemneth that the Patriarches toke vnto them the ordination off the bishops nigh them and by meanes therof by litle and litle gat some iurisdiction ouer those bishopes and their churches So appeareth that if there be any difference here touching these offices betwene vs and M. Bucer yt is onely that where we affirme yt good that the presidentship should be chosen at euery meeting as that which cometh neerer the apostels example and more safe against Tyranny M â–ª Bucer may seem to make yt a standing and continuall office set â—â— in one man For as towching his autority wherin the chief poinct off the controuersie lieth yt findeth as smal grace with M Bucer as with vs. Whatsoeuer is here is answered sauing the contrarietie assigned betwen this an Apostle vvas aboue an Euangelist and that there was chiefrie euen amongest the apostels in that one labored more and
had more excellent giftes then another which how manifest an argument yt is that the archbishop hathe robbed him off all sense let the reader iudge Sauing also that he signifieth that the difference betweene the Apostels must be in autoritie not in excellency off giftes or laboures Considering that there was amongest them in those poinctes a most perfect equalitie Which how absurd yt is may be considered in that some had the gifte off continencie which other some had not some trauailed with their handes for their liuing which other did not aÌ„d in that S. Paul is said expresly to haue laboured more then they all To the nexte beside bare affirmations and slaunders ofte repeted he answereth nothing To the ninth I answer not That the greke worde 2. Gal. 2. signifieth for the most parte to seeme can not be denied Whether there be any necessitie to chaunge this vsual aÌ„d ordinary signification in that place I leaue to the reader Seing first the same word in that chapter is twise so turned where the same bothe matter and persons are spoken off seing also yt is confessed by M. Beza which corrected yt that the apostle speaketh not according to his owne but according to the sense off his aduersaries Thirdly seing the cause which moued Erasmus and M. Beza to departe from that translation for that ther is nothing ioined to declare vvherin that seeming and apparance shoulde be is not so vrging For S. Paul vseth ofte suche shorte and cut speaches which are to be supplied by other places off his as M. Beza him self sheweth in the same chap. vers 6. I omit the nomber off interpreters which haue folowed the oulde in this behalfe Howbeit I confesse that if I had knowne that I had in this pointe to doe with the Geneua M. Bezas and Erasmus translation and Budies autoritie I would for reuerence off their learning haue vse â–ª an easier worde in dissenting nether wil I striue about yt witâ—â—he D. yt making litle ether off or on to the matter in hand seing the reason alledged by the adm and mainteined by me standeth still against the archbishop For if Saint Paul were in nothing inferiour vnto Saint Peter one of those cheif there meÌ„tioned and yf the making of S. Peter to haue autoritie ouer Saint Paul be the ouerthrow of S. Pauls argument then yt foloweth that thadm aptly alledged that place againste the archbishop Nether can it be alledged to proue any degree of honour the in ministery not onely because the price which the Galatheans had off those by suggestion off the false Apostels was excessiue in that they preferred those three before S. Paul but also for that off men in the same degree and autoritie one may iustly be honoured more then an other in respecte off giftes more excellente in him then in the reste Where I shewed that our Sa. Christs calling is auowed iust because yt was coÌ„teined in scripture he saith the apostel onely shewed by scripture that he intruded not him self but was called off god Where the testimonies put as causes off this that he did not glorifie him selfe muste be also cawses off his vocation and that in suche sorte that if those and suche like testimonies had not bene his vocation coulde not haue bene iustified where he saith none can iustifie his calling if it were not lawfull withowt suche a personall testimonie as our Sau. Christ had we presse not all the circumstances Ther being no more in that kinde off office but he alone the testimonie off it must needes be personall Yt shall be sufficient for him to shew that the Archbishops haue the same testimonie off the worde which the bishops or pastours To the next I answer not In the next there is nothing but bare affirmacions answered before To that alledged that if all the church vvere in one Prouince and one ouer them all in trauailing vvith an archbishop he should bringe forthe a pope he answereth that can not be the churche being scattered throwghout the worlde Which I graunte hauing respecte vnto Gods election and calling hidden from vs but that the churche established in a visible and apparant from may not which God foâ—â—id be browght into one land I hetherto heare no reason he saâ—th further that the church after the ascension being in Ierusalem onely yf yt had had one bishop should by my reason likewise haue had a pope which is vntrew For we ioine with the pastor and that in equal autoritie of gouernement thelders off the church condemning al monarchicall gouernement in the pastor The rest is aÌ„swered The next is answered before Accused for charging the adm to haue vsed the papistes reasons he saith he may vvel doo yt but reason he can shew none He denieth that he woulde proue one archbishop ouer a prouince by one kinge ouer a realme yet beside he flatly affirmeth that the forme off gouernment in the church must be according to that of the coÌ„mon wealthe driuen to the wal yt is his coÌ„mon refuge that by the same reason we easte away Archbishops we may likewise depose kinges His whole answer almost heer is cloured off diuers diuisions before where he hath reply And yet suche is his forehead that althowgh he haue heer set before me a charger off Colewories yet for answering them with repetition off one line in as few wordes as if I had onely referred him to the former treatise he shameth not to say that I vse nothing almost but repetitions To that alledged out of Caluin that the churche dothe cleane one part vnto an other vnder our Sau. Christes dominion according to the order and forme off policiÌ„e vvhich he hathe prescribed and therfore not by a bishop of a diocese or archbishop as those vvhich he praescribed not he answereth that he speaketh off the spirituall gouernement and not off the externall wherby he maketh Caluin a trifling disputer For the Papistes which will haue the pope a ministeriall head vnder Christe Confesse that he alone gouerneth inwardly and secretly by his spirit but that their pope is a meanes wherby he doth yt Therfore Cal. in saying that that is doen by the order and forme off policie prescribed off God stopped vp that corner against them And beside that yt will be hard for him to shew that the inwarde working off God by his spirit is called an order and forme off policie let him answer where that order and forme off policie off the lordes secret working with his spirit is prescribed seing the worke thereof ys as the voice of the wind which we hearing can not tel from wheÌ„ce yt cometh nor whetâ—â—â— yt will and seing the lord commaunding his ministers to doe their dwtie reserueth to him selfe the manner and order how and when he will worke in wardly Secondly he answereth that this policie off our Bishop and Archbishop is praescribed althowghe not particularly expressed in his word as if the