as shal be saved Rev. 18 4. Their starr or Bishop is long since fallen from heaven and in sted of Peters keyes he received the key of the bottomless pit which he opened and brought up a smoke of heresies and darkned all truth and means therof and sent abroad his clergie the Locusts to sting and poyson mens souls by calling them from God to worship Divils And these things Mr Iunius himself hath applied to the popish hierarchie Touching the papacie say they or papal hierarchie caled ecclesiastical we say not that it is the church properly so caled but an accident growing to the church and which covertly worketh against the life and health of the church For the papacie is an order humane and naught the church is an assembly divine c. And after they say The papacie is in the church as the order of apostasie in the howse of God 2 Thes. 2. the man of syn sitteth in the temple of God with his whole order or rank of Apostates and the Temple of God consisteth not in that order and number of Apostates which is a thing most strange and furthest off And again the papacie is a poyson in the Church which must needs be vomitted out if it wil be preserved or ells the Church wil be extinguished by it if it suffer that poyson to prevayl and possess all the veyns of the body I answer true it is and I agree with them that the rank of Apostates is farr from being Gods temple wherupon I assume the whole popish church preists and people are a rank of Apostats because they worship the Beast who sheweth himself there for God where the Pope is acknowledged to be the Lion of the tribe of Iudah the root of David the Saviour and deliverer they worship Divils and Idols of silver and gold Rev. 9.20 and their beleef is in lyes 2 Thes. 2.11 12. therfore the whole popish Church being a ranck of Apostates is a Temple of Antichrist but not of Christ. Secondly to take that which they grant the papal Hierarchie ecclesiastical if it be no part of the body of the Church but an accident a poyson a gangrene an vlcer eating the body what shal we think of al the actions of that ecclesiastical hierarchie their ministration of sacraments their making of ministers and the whole Church administration by that rank of Apostates they cannot possibly be the actions of the body of the Church neyther of Christ. Can a scab or gangrene perform any action of a natural body or member And now what is become of their true baptisme and ordination of Ministers before pleaded for these wil be but as the operation of the poison or fretting of the gangrene for they that did them being the popish ecclesiastical hierarchie were no parts of the Church but accidents as the gangrene or pocks upon the whores body which consume life and grace but give none at al. Thirdly seing the popish ecclesiastical hierarchie which consisteth of Bishops Preists Ministers are the poison and botches in the body of the Church and no parts of the same how dooth God cal in that Church as before they reasoned For his ministerie is not among them as for his word the people have it not so much as to read and the service of their Gods is in a tongue that they understand not what now is the meanes of their caling Fourthly compare this with their former plea for the Eldership and Ministerie wheÌ„ they could not find the Church to be caled the body of Christ howse city or Kingdom unless it had officers c. Now for Rome they wil have it the body of Christ howse Temple of God ministring true baptisme c. and yet the ecclesiastical hierarchie are no parts or members but scabs on the body But the truth is these Aegyptian boyles the hierarchie ar the chiefest parts of the body of that Antichrist which in some respect may be likened to the Image that Nebuchadnezar saw Dan. 2.31 c. The Pope with his triple crown who is proclaymed for a Vice-God the inuincible Monarch of the Christian common wealth and vehement conserver of the popish omnipotencie he is the â—ead of Gold The Cardinals and prelats are next him as breast arms of silver the other bellyâ—God Clergie is the strong brazen paunch and the Lay people are as the legs and feet of yron and clay which cary and bear up the bulk and the unclean Spirit of Satan giveth life and effectual operation to this Beast For to be a member of this their body and Church the papists themselves profess that ther is not any inward vertue required so then ther is no need of the spirit of God to joyn these limms of the Beast togither But they proceed and say that On Gods behalf it is altogither a Church whersoever ther is found a company caled of God with his caling by the spirit and the holy scripture and the ministery of persons ordeyned for holy things and divine actions And a little after After this maner doo we esteem of the Church in which the papacy is God caleth her with his caling by his spirit and word and publik record of that holy mariage the scripture the ministerie and things holy actions which before we have breifly reckned up I answer if mens eyes did not dazel with looking on the bewtie of the harlot I marvel how they could so esteem of that Church which hath for her hierarchie as even now they confessed a rank of Apostates no members but ulcers of the body And are they now with another breath become an holy ministerie of God Most strange it is that men should publish their own esteemings without any word of God to warrant them But let us bring them to the trial They say God caleth her by his spirit and word but Paul sayth God shal send them strong delusion that they should beleev lyes 2 Thes. 2.11 and this we see verifyed by the manifold heresies idolatries blasphemies wherewith the whole body of that Church is poysoned They say God caleth her with his spirit the Apostle sayth strong is the Lord God which will condemn her Rev. 18 8. and with the spirit of his mouth he wil consume that lawless one 2. Thes. 2 8. And wheras they cal the scripture the publik record of that holy mariage between God her the scripture shewes no such mariage but dooth defye her as an harlot where is the record that Christ was ever maried to the Beast that came up from the bottomless pit If her having the book of holy scripture in an unknown tongue wickedly abused to mainteyn her whordoms and abominations subjected to the interpretation of her Lord God the Pope be a record of that holy mariage the Iewes which have Moses and the Prophets red and expounded in their mother tongue have
their brethren Against al vvhich he armeth his disciples and teacheth the orderly vvay to redress them And that his rules should not be despised he assureth them that their censures executed on earth shal be ratified in heaven the ground vvherof is his name vvherin they should be gathered togither and his presence in the mids of them And this phrase of Christs name leadeth us also evidētly unto the church under the gospel for it meaneth the clear manifestation of Christ with the power and profession of him as Act. 2 38. 3 16 4 12 17. 2 Tim. 2 19. In respect wherof Christ sayd to his disciples hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name Joh. 16 24. These rules therfore doo most properly serve for the Church since Christs comming therfore he sendeth not his disciples to the Iewes synedriōs much less to the hethen magistrates for redress of the synns that should arise in his kingdom But our opposites doo except what is here taught that the Jewes should not observ as wel as we should not they be humble harmless c. I answer that which the gospel teacheth touching faith repentance humility c the Iewes were also bound unto though these and the like things are otherwise opened and urged now under the gospel Rom. 16.25.26 but ther was to be an other form and order of the Christian church than of the Iewish and in that respect Moses politie must give place Ye they proceed and inferr that the offender if he repent not should be brought to the Congregation of Elders This I deny in their understanding who make this to be one with the Synedrion or Council of Magistrates in Mat. 5.22 which place I have also treated of before and I affirm it to be the Christian Church or Congregation of faithful people the spowse and bride of Christ with whom his power is left to judge al synners within the same their Elders guiding and governing them in their judgments For the outward form of the Iewish Church was abolished by Christ the common wealth of Israel dissolved and given up to the Romanes whose Caesar they preferred before Christ. The Temple ruinated the ministerie also changed and the ordinances though in many things proportionable with Israel but for Ministers authoritie over his people to govern them Magistrate like it is forbidden Mat. 20.25 26. Luk. 22 25. 1. Pet. 5 3. 1. Cor. 3 22 23. and for any church of Elders the whole new Testament knoweth it not nor any such practise as these would bring in but that the same church which came togither to the word and sacraments came also togither to judge and cast out obstinate synners and were all blamed for the neglect of this duty as for any other And for deciding controversies the Apostles Elders and brethren did come togither with one accord And such order continued in Churches some yeres after the Apostles for Tertullian relateth the manner of Christian assemblies in his time how they came togither into a congregation for to pray unto God and for to rehearse the divine scriptures and with holy words to nourish faith styrr up hope and fasten confidence How there also were exhortations reproofs and divine censures and judgment given with great deliberation the approved Seniors being presidents in the assemblies And Cyprian Bishop of Carthage sheweth how with him mens causes were handled not onely before the Elders but the whole multitude without whose consent also nothing was doon Next foloweth their exception about women and children asking if they should in a controversie be the greater part whither then they be the church spoken of Also whither in the congregation and presence of the Elders the women and children have authority by vertue of that rule Mat. 18.17 to examine rebuke admonish their husbands parents c. for they that are of the church there spoken of may examine c. I answer first they omitt what heretofore wee answered them when they fished about this matter namely that the whole church of men women children are to be present at ecclesiastical judgments as at al other publick administrations of the church wher whatsoever is performed is doon by prayer and the ministration of the word that al may receiv instruction by the word there ministred and as is written al Israel may hear and fear and doo no more any such wickednes But no other to have voices or suffrages in excommunications c. then they that have voices in election or deposition of officers And they know wel it was never our judgment or practise that in Elections women or children should give their voices the Apostle and nature it self requiring women to be silent in the church they also themselves have thus professed and practised with us many yeres Secondly they have seen Mr. Robinsons answer to M. Bernard cavilling likewise about women and children to the same effect Yet wil they take no notice of his answer or of ours nor make any reply but thus trouble the world and us in special to answer agayn and agayn whatsoever they please to demand For after in pag. 43. of their book they are twise up agayn with these questions of women and children as if we had nought ells to doo but to answer and answer their tautologies Thirdly seing they thus deal to make the truth seem odious and to set the more colour upon their prelacie imitating the papists and popish affected they shal have the like things demanded of them not by us but by others Themselves as yet allow popular election of officers because they say to give voices in election is not a part of government but a power right and libertie that the saincts and people out of office have and should use Now those of the prelates faction which deny this power of the people say thus unto them By this reckning men women and children for al the faithful be interested shal have voices in election of their ministers if any dissent al must be dashed Jt had been very requisite that our authour for the appointing of these Democratical elections the better unto vs should with proof out of scripture for every particular have shewed whether women or children of some reasonable discretion should have voices in election of their Minister whether he should be chosen by all by the greater part or by the better part whether the wives voice should be accounted several or but one with her husband or whether she might dissent from her husband or the father from the son c. They that compare these two writers may see how they wrote by one spirit and almost with one pen. Yet because in this point of popular election they doo differ wee leave it for our opposites to answer these demands to the Prelates and then if need be they shal hear further of us touching popular
deceyt The whole Church is a kingdom of Preists that is of ministers who are to be guided and governed by their Officers caled also ministers in more special manner for the holy and orderly practise of the power And thus the Prophets foretold the state of the Christian Church saying strangers shal stand and feed your sheep and the sonns of strangers shal be your plowmen and dressers of your vines but ye shal be named the Preists of the Lord men shal say unto you The Ministers of our God Where the Officers of the Church are coÌ„pared to pastours husbandmen as the new testament also coÌ„firmeth vvhich should be of the converted Gentiles and the Church it self is the Lords preisthood and his Ministers Sixtly they ask whither we in the Churches goverment as the Anabaptists in the sacraments would not make them aliens from the coÌ„mon wealth of Jsrael c. I answer this was in their fourth observation before and there is by me answered I trust without absurdity or ungodlynes errors or evils all which they here insinuate against us for to fyll up their mesure But here agayn the reason deceiveth the reader for in sted of coÌ„mon-wealth or politie they bring in one body one Lord one faith of theirs and ours c. Ephe. 2. c. Al this we grant but the outward politie goverment we deny to be the same it being changed by Christ both for Citie Sanctuarie Dan. 9.26 There was alwayes one Lord faith of the Church but not alwayes one politie The kingdom and preisthood were first executed by one person as in Melchisedek afterward these functions were divided Kings might not doo the Preists work Also the civil government in Israel was changeable somtime without a King sometime with one yea sometime by hethen Kings as Nebuchadnezar Cyrus c to whom the Israelites were bound to be subject but not so in their sacraments that ther is no just consequence to be drawn froÌ„ the one of these to the other We rather may ask of our opposites whether they as the Papists would not draw us froÌ„ the testament of Christ vvho was faithful as Moses in al his house to the Ievvish politie novv abolished And let them tell us vvhether ther may be novv Archbishops over other Bishops and Ministers as in Israel there were Archpreists over other Preists and Levites or a superior court to hear the appeals from particular synagogues cities now as was then and whether the ministers of the Church now may be captayns of politik armies as Benajah son of Iehojada the cheif Preist was general of the feild in Ioabs room Such orders have been heretofore in Israel Seventhly they ask why we speak not of our selves what we pleaded to be the church spoken of Mat. 18 17. c. I answer because our plea is already set forth in sundry books as the Discovery the Reâ—itation of M. Gifford the Apologie the Treatise of the Ministerie against M. Hildersh the Answer to White c. And I ask of them agayn why they answer not the things already published in so many treatises but fish for more matter by subtile questions as if men had nothing ells to doo but answer al things that they write and demand and to let them range at wil without orderly answering as is meet They say some of us taught it to be the whole church alleging to that end Num. 15.33 27.2 and 35.12 I answer first we taught then no otherweise then as them selves taught heretofore with us Secondly we alleged many other scriptures and reasons both from the Prophets and Apostles though it please them to omitt those and cull out these against which they think they have more colour to contend For hereupon they thus argue 1 Jf this rule be found in the book of Numbers c. then it is not a new rule first given in Mat. 18.17 I answer they wrong us and would deceiv the reader we alleged not those scriptures to prove the rule to be the same then and now but to give light unto the question by shewing what was the peoples right then under the law and under the Magistrate which may be more but can not be less now under the gospel where the church ministery hath not the power of Magistracie over Gods heritage The Apostle applieth many things from Aarons preisthood to Christ yet he maketh Christs preisthood not to be after Aarons order but Melchisedeks should men now thus carp at his allegations Then they say those scriptures speak of civil goverment which we except about the Elders but they suppose we wil not give to the people civil authoritie I answer first them selves grant that the people have as much right and power now as they had in Israel but we deny they can never prove that the ministers now have as much authority over the people as had the Princes of Israel so our reasoning is good though theirs be naught Secondly for civil authoritie as we never chalenged it so neyther should it be objected to them but that they wil have it to be no new rule Then say we it must be left to the Magistrate and ministers may not intrude into their place And seing they thus urge it let them if they please clear them selves whither they think not that the Elders of the church may have civil authoritie also as had the Elders in Israel Thirdly they say that by these and the like scriptures it is certayn sinners in Jsrael were brought before the congregation of Elders I answer if they mean Elders onely as they must if they reason to the matter in hand I deny it and ther is no weight in their proof For it is also certayn that Paul imposed hands on Timothee 2. Tim. 1.6 but elswhere it appeareth others also imposed hands as wel as he 1. Tim. 4.14 So the Apostles and Elders came togither about a controversie Act. 15.6 but the whole Church came togither also verse 22.23 Titus was left to ordeyn Elders Tit. 1.5 but was he to doo it himself alone The keyes were promised to Peter Mat. 16.19 but were they meant to him onely In Rev. 2.1 Iohn wrote to the Angel or Messenger of the church but by Rev. 1.11 2.7 it is plain the whole church was intended So in Israel the law sayth in a case of mariage let her goe up to the gate to the Elders Deut. 25.7.8.9 but the practise of this sheweth that the people were also interested with the Elders Ruth 4.2.7.9.11 Jn Exod. 5.1 Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh but by Exod. 3.18 we may gather that the Elders of Israel went with them also So in the place cited Num. 15.33 they brought him to Moses and to Aaron and to al the Congregation the people are here meant with the Magistrates for God then
sayd let al the congregation stone him and al the Congregation brought him without the host and stoned him Now by M. Iohnsons own grant they whom the Iudges condemned did dye by the hands of the people who is it then that cannot see the Congregation here to mean both Elders and people So in the other place Num. 27.2 when they stood before Moses and Eleazar the preist and before the Princes and al the Congregation this distribution of the persons togither with the place the dore of the Tabernacle of the Congregation may shew that the Elders onely were not meant besides in the same chapter Iosua being there ordeyned over the Congregation c. it cannot with any colour be gathered that the Elders onely were the congregation Num. 27.16.17.19.20 c. Wherfore when one scripture mentioneth the Elders Jos. 20.4 and an other the Congregation Num 32.12 Jos. 20.6 we should not restreyn it to the lesser but let the scripture have the largest sense unless apparant reason doo urge a restreynt which is not here but the contrary For if they were to dye by the hands of the people conscience required the people to hear their cause tryed also seing the law charged every one thou shalt not slay the innocent and the righteous and it was not safe for them to trust their Iudges which so often and so many wayes corrupted judgment as al the prophets doo complayn It is therfore an evil argument to say in Israel by one scripture men were sent to the Elders by an other to the Congregation therfore it was the congregation of Elders and not of the people also For by such wrested reasons one might prove that the Elders onely were bound to keep the passover because in one place it is sayd speak to all the Congregation of Israel that every man take to him a Lamb Exod. 12 3. and in an other place it is sayd Moses caled al the Elders of Israel saying chuse out take for every of your howsholds a Lamb Exod. 12 21. therfore it was meant of the Congregation of Elders and so the other people were not bound to this service Agayn it was coÌ„manded Exod 19 3 5. tel the children of Jsrael if ye wil hear my voice and keep my covenant ye shal be my chief treasure c. afterwards it is sayd Moses caled for the Elders of the people and proposed unto them al these things shal we now conclude therfore the covenant was made with the Elders onely Who seeth not the weaknes of such consequents and that it is usual in scripture to name but the principal of a company and yet to include others with them Notwithstanding between Israel and us there were two mayn differences the one that Church ministers now have not such ecclesiastical authoritie over the people as is proportionable to the Magistrates autoritie then for this is forbidden Mat. 20 25. vvher Christ sayth the rulers of the nations have domination over them and they that are great exercise authoritie over them but it shal not be so among you And 1. Pet. 5.2 3. Feed the flock of God c. not as having domination over his heritage The other is that they vvere a national Church the Magistrats in the gates of Ierusalem the Preists in the Temple being for the whole Realm it could not be that al the people should be present at the dayly judgements of the Magistrates or sacrifices of the Preists And therfore it vvas not required so of them as novv it is of us vvho are but particular Churches to be present at al publik administration of Christs kingdom and preisthood Yea even in their most solemn assemblies they could not doo as vve ar bound to doo For they did eat the passeover in their private hovvses because al the thovvsands of Israel could not eat it in one room but vve are bound to eat the passover now I mean the Lords supper in the publik Church and not otherwhere Wheras therfore they next except that the people were 600. thowsand men and would we have them to think that they came togither to hear examine and judge the cases of syn c. I answer no neyther al the Elders For I have before shevved there were divers officers for several causes And Boaz took but ten of the Elders of BethleheÌ„ to hear his cause The Elders also did meet by themselves as ther was occasion and so are they to doo now Secondly for this exception of so many thowsands in the wildernes that could not come to hear and judge they should mind how the same lyeth against the execution When God sayd of the blasphemer let all the Congregation stone him wil they say six hundred thowsand men came together to doo it yet themselves grant this vvas to be doon by the people It vvas as easy for them to come to hear his cause tryed as to come and stone him and care of equity taught them to doo the first as vvel as the last as before is shevved Next they except against our expounding the Kingdom of Heaven Mat. 18.1 c. to be the church under the gospel since Christ this they say is not sound because the same phrase is spoken of the church of the Jewes Mat. 22.2 c. I answer this their reason is unsufficient for I could so except against the exposition almost of any scripture by shewing a diverse use and meaning of the words When th'Apostle proveth Christs excellencie above the Angels because of his name the Son of God the Iewes might allege that the Angels are also caled Sonns of God yea holy men have the like title but were this a sufficient answer Wel I wil not stâ—ive with them about the phrase although in some places they may see the Kingdom of Heaven opposed to the state of the Iewes church as Mat. 11.11 but as the prophets tel us of new heavens under the Gospel so wil I distinguish and cal the Iewish church the old heaven as that which is shaken and removed and the Christian church the new heaven of which the Gospel usually speaketh as Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand Mat. 3.2 4.17 Now vvhen the disciples asked Iesus who is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven ther might be reason of their demand touching the Christian church then to be planted but to ask such a thing about the Ievvish church I see litle reason They knevv already the state of it and vvho vvas cheif therin Secondly Christs ansvver leadeth us hereto for ther being great expectation of that Kingdom and an erroneous persuasion that it should be a glorious vvorldly state Christ tells them the contrary that it vvas for the converted and humble sovvles to enter into that many scandals and offenses should arise herein both from the vvorld and from mens corruption in them selves and from
Secondly in that place of their Treatise on Mat. 18. they quote Mat. 2◠20 as alleged for a ground yet they give not any answer to that scripture but stil call upon us to answer their questions write more Wheras Christ there encōmendeth to his disciples of all nations to the worlds end the observing of all things whatsoever he cōmanded th'Apostles And excommunication was one of those things commanded Mat. 18. 1. Cor. 5. Therfore to be observed by a Christian people though they want officers unless these men can shew some prohibition Christ requireth to observ al things these men say nay not excommunication it lyeth now on them to shew wher Christ or his Apostles have excepted excommunication But from that place and by the very same reasons doo the Anabaptists deny baptisme of Children caling for scripture example precept ground to warrant it as these doo now in this case 3. Thirdly besides al things heretofore written they have a ground in the article it self which they neyther doo nor can take away which is the power that the church alwayes hath to receiv in members and therfore consequently to cast them out agayn if they deserv it Which ground if they deny they in effect deny that ther can be any church without Elders contrary to the express scripture Act. 14.23 1. Cor. 12.28 Tit. 1.5 Yea or that ther can be any visible Christians without Elders for how can they be Christians without union with Christ And if men cannot be united with his members and body because ther wanteth Elders how should they be united with him the head 4. They have it proved a point of false doctrine by Mr Iohnson himsef to teach that the Church of Christ hath not alwayes power to receive in and to cast out by the keyes of the kingdom Answer to M. Iakob pag. 159.160 2. They secondly allege sundry examples grounds that it hath been doon by the Lord himself and by his officers c. This we never doubted of but a Church having officers may excōmunicate Though yet the proof for the Elders wil be excepted against by the Prelates and such like For th'examples of Abraham of Paul of Titus of Timothee and of the Preist judging a leper make rather in show for one Bishop then for a Church of Elders and so are alleged by Papists for the Prelacie The other scriptures doo none of them shew the Elders power to excōmunicate but to watch take heed reprove admonish c al which the Prelates grant to their inferiour Preists whom yet they wil not suffer to excommunicate with out the Bishop or his Official as these wil not the Church without an Eldership The examples of excommunicating by the Rulers of Israel I wil turn against them thus If the Magistrates and people of Israel might not onely punish civilly with death but also execute a spiritual censure of excommunication upon the consciences of evil doers though they had wanted ministers of the Temple and synagogues then a Christian magistrate and people may doo so now though they want ministers ecclesiastical And if the Church may excommunicate having a magistrate it may also do it wanting one seing the power of spiritual censure dependeth not upon the civil magistracie as the state of the Churches in the Apostles dayes sheweth 3 Thirdly they wil have us to consider how a people can chalenge the ministration of excommunication more then of the sacraments c. This we have considered and find that if the reason be good the ruling Elders may not excommunicate any more then minister the sacraments which whither they hold or no let them tel us in their next For they know wel the Prelates object these things against the ruling Elders as themselves doo now against the people 4. Fourthly they say they cannot find in scripture but when the church is caled the body of Christ or compared to a body howse city or kingdom it is spoken eyther of particular Churches having officers or of the catholik church in respect of Christ the head c. I answer it appeareth then plainly they have lost that which they had found and let them take heed least for not keeping it God deprive them of finding it any more But I wil help them if it may be by their own writing where this same author sayth A company of faithful people though considered a part by themselves they be privat men yet being gathered togither in the name of Christ and joyned togither in fellowship of his gospel they are a publick body a church a citie a kingdom and that of Jesus Christ who is present among them to guide bless and confirm what they doo on earth in his name and by his power So that like as in a city the citizens considered a part are commonly privat members yet jointly togither are the corporation and publick body of that town so is it also in the church of Christ whither it consist of moe or of fewer yea though they be but 2. or 3. so as they be joyned togither in the communion of the gospel and gathered togither in the name of Jesus Christ as before is sayd These things they have acknowledged though now it seemeth they have forgot them or which is worse doo dissemble them Vnto these I wil add th'Apostles testimonie concerning a howse Christ is the chief corner stone and Christians that come unto him as lively stones are made a spiritual howse an holy Preisthood to offer up spiritual sacrifices Men come unto Christ by beleef and are joyned unto him and one to another by mutual covenant The ministers of Christ are as builders of this howse by preaching the gospel laying first the foundation Christ then upon him Christian people Gods building But if as often cometh to pass the builders doo refuse yet the Lord without them putteth Christ for head of the corner and causeth the faithful to come unto him and maketh them his spiritual howse to dwel in them whose howse they continew to be not by having officers alway among them but by holding fast their confidence and rejoycing of hope unto the end Wherfore these men that can find no howse of God without Elders must prove that men can not come unto no◠continew in Christ unless it be by ecclesiastical officers which they shal never be able to manifest or al may see how they are beguiled with errour that they can not find things so apparant and heretofore acknowledged by themselves Ther opinion is injurious not onely to Christians but to Christ himself whiles they wil not grant him being the corner stone the head the king and the faithful the living stones his mēbers and subjects to make a howse body or kingdom if the Elders want or refuse though he as is written walketh among his Churches and is with them al dayes to the worlds end 5. Fiftly they
beast so commended unto us by these men as doon in the name of the Lord. And as for the Office of ministerie to which they say now it is given M. Iohnson himself haâ—h set down heretofore 33. reasons and differences proving by many scriptures that the popish preists office is not the Christian Pastors office Yea he affirmed the hierarchie of Antichrist to be the most detestable anarchie of Satan that ever was and what now wil imposition of sacrilegious hands in the name of the Lord doo good unto such a detestable ministery 4. Fourthly they say they find not precept example or ground in scripture binding them to the repetition of that ordination I answer it is very true no scripture bindeth men to repete or doo agayn such abominations And we pray them shew us where is there precept example or ground to keep the preisthood and indeleble character of Antichrist But be it as they say what then wil become of their own Ministery for some of them have both received given vnto others reordination are they not in as evil case by their own grounds as the Anabaptists with their rebaptisation They unjustly insinuate Anabaptistrie against us very often but themselves are in like actual transgression with the Anabaptists if their doctrine be true and yet manifest not their repentance nor tel us by vertue of which ordination they doo now administer 5. Fiftly they say the Preists and Levites in Jsrael being clensed of their vncleannes reteyned stil their places and their children after them did minister without a new anoynting or new imposition of hands c. I answer then belike the Romish preists must keep their Antichristian preisthood still for so the Preists in Israel did theirs Otherweise if they must have a new office how can they doo it by their old ordination Even in Rome it self when a Preist is promoted to a Bishops office he is new anoynted both hands head the holy Ghost agayn given him the pastoral staff the ring the Gospel is also given him to goe preach to the people committed to him c. and he hath a new imposition of hands besides that he had before 2. If the Preists children caled of God did in Israel minister without imposition of hands upon them at al as they suppose yet this wil make nothing for Antichrists hierarchie caled of the Divil with greasing shaving imposing of hands to sacrifice blasphemously for the quick and dead that they should now minister by vertue of this office and calling in the Church of Christ. Neyther might Baals Preists or Chemarims administer in Gods temple Their reason therfore from the Lords own Ministerie is altogither unfit the hethenish Flamins or Druides are fitter matches for Belials clergie And this M. Iohnson himself acknowledged when he wrote against M. Hilderdersh thus Jf Jupiters Preist Act. 14.13 or if Mahumets Preists now in Turkye should by the lawes of their nations be injoyned and therupon should execute the Ministerie of Gods word sacraments and censures would it follow therfore that such Preists had the substance of the Pastors office And why then should this Preisthood of Antichrist have more privilege then those seing the word of God hath layd this duty no more vpon it then upon the other but hath left them al with their followers and adherents under the curse Psal. 119 21 128. Rev. 9 3. 14.9 10 11. Thus he then wrote but now we find an other maner of plea. 6. Sixtly they say That they find in scripture some officers admitted with it some without it This I find not They allege Act. 13.1.2.3 where Paul and Barnabas had it It is true yea Paul had imposition of hands twise Act. 9.17 13.3 but where is the scripture that sayth some had it not They say we read not that the other Apostles had what then dooth this proov they had it not So we may also conclude the other Apostles were never baptised for we read not that they were We read not say the Anabaptists that children were baptised in the Apostles dayes wil these men now conclude therfore they were not baptised But doo not they know that arguments thus drawn negatively from scripture are generally blamed for insufficient 7. Seventhly they say that some churches hold it not of necessity to be had c. I answer that is nothing to such as hold it and have Elders to doo it But they diminish the state of the question for when the Apostle speaketh of Jmposition of hands Heb. 6.2 dooth he mean the outward ceremonie onely or the doctrine of the ministerie caling ordination signified by the sign I hope the reformed churches deny no principle of religion such as that is So in this case spoken of were it onely the outward signe I would not contend But they compare the baptism of Rome and the Ministerie of Rome togither no new baptising into the church therfore no new ordeyning unto the ministerie but as al come out of the Apostasie baptised Christians so some doo come ordeyned ministers Wherfore if these be alike they bring with them in their account the substance of a true office and of a true caling Otherweise if a new office and caling be given them I assure my self they that say Receiv the Teachers office c. may impose hands even as they that say J baptise thee into the name of the Father c may put on water Now these mens testimonie heretofore hath been strong against the Office or ministerie it self with the caling administration c. And now let them shew by the word that a new caling into a new office which men had not before may be by the ordination or imposition of hands given by Antichrist unto a false office with a false calling 8. Thus say they we shew our keeping of coÌ„munion with all other churches c. I answer this reason is good if communion be kept in the light not in darknes let Gods word therfore try the case Yet let these men say whither they know not that the ministers made in these reformed churches are not admitted in Engl. without a new ordination by the Prelates And that al Scholars admitted into Geneva must expressly detest the Popish hierarchie so caled as a Divilish confusion which hierarchie consisteth of Bishops Preists and Ministers and they that say it is not by divine ordination are by the Council of Trent accursed Is not here good communion Yea let me further tel them how the learned and better sort in England have disclaymed coÌ„munion with that Romish clergie D. Fulk in the Answ. of a true Christian to a counterfeyt catholik sayth Although al godly men wish more severitie of discipline to be used in receiving them that come out of heresies to serv in the Church then is commonly practised in England yet you are highly deceived if you think we esteem your offices of