Selected quad for the lemma: scripture_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
scripture_n	apostle_n	believe_v	faith_n	6,183	5	5.3553	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A33205	An answer to the representer's reflections upon the state and view of the controversy with a reply to the vindicator's full answer, shewing, that the vindicator has utterly ruined the new design of expounding and representing popery.	Clagett, William, 1646-1688.; Clagett, Nicholas, 1654-1727.	1688 (1688)	Wing C4376; ESTC R11070	85,324	142

the Representer has made for us One thing I am sure of that the Converts of the City of Orange were received upon such easy terms in point of Declaration that if Subjection and Communion had not been to follow one would have look'd upon the whole Transaction as a solemn Jest between the French General and the Bishop of Orange on the one side and the Citizens of Orange on the other The Passage is very remarkable and instructing and therefore I shall not think much to set down the Articles of Reconciliation as I have received them from hands of unquestionable credit 1. The Citizens of the Town of Orange that are under written considering that it is the Will of God of which Kings are the principal Interpreters that all Christians should reunite themselves into the same Church To testify their submission to the Order of the Divine Providence and that which they bear to the Holy Intentions of the King do intreat of his Majesty that his Troops commanded by the Count de Tessé should depart from them and that the Expence which has been or shall be made by them be levied upon the whole State without distinction of Religion We Order the Execution of the present Article according to the full Tenor of it Tessé 2. They declare that they do reunite themselves to the Catholic Apostolic and Roman Church after the manner which that Church do's use to believe and to profess all the Christian and Orthodox Truths contained in the Holy Scripture which God hath manifested to the Prophets Apostles and Evangelists following the Interpretation and Sense of the Universal Church and renouncing all Errors and Heresies contrary thereunto 3. That for their great Consolation and Edification every Sunday before the Service there shall be read a Chapter of the Holy Scripture of the Old and New Testament in French according to the Translations approved by the Church and that all the Divine Service which is performed in Latin shall be explained in French by the Pastors of the Church 4. That they shall invoke no other besides God the Father Son and Holy Ghost 5. That they shall not believe that it is necessary to Salvation to have any other Intercession and Mediation than that of our Lord Jesus Christ towards God the Father 6. That they shall not be obliged to render any Divine Honour to Images which shall be in the Church 7. That they shall adore Jesus Christ in the Eucharist who is Really Spiritually and Sacramentally contain'd in that Adorable Sacrament 8. That this Consolation shall be given to the Faithful that they shall communicate in both Kinds if the Universal Church shall think it convenient Done at Orange the 11th of Nov. 1685. We James d' Obeilh by the Grace of God Bishop of Orange Abbot and Count of Montfor Counsellor of the King in all his Councils have admitted these who are countersigned to the Reunion of the Catholic Apostolic and Roman Church upon the Conditions expressed in the Eight Articles above written Done at Orange this 13th of Novemb. 1685. John James Bishop of Orange The Representer may I think see in this Example that he is out-done in his own way and that there are in the World more mild and inoffensive Representations of Popery than his own and some provisions for saving the Consciences of the Reformed which himself has not made But I would know of him whether he do's believe that those who united themselves to the Roman Church with these Cautions can be reasonably judged to have proceeded with satisfaction in themselves and about what they did Or rather whether there be not all the Signs that one can have in a thing of this Nature that being distressed between a troublesome Conscience on the one Hand and Count Tessés Troops on the other they capitulated as well as they could for their own quiet and granted what they did to be delivered from the Souldiers and no more than what they did if by that means they might pacify their own Minds A very miserable Case most certainly And that which is yet more to be lamented is that these things should be done by Christians upon Christians Let the Representer take it into his serious Consideration and I believe it will be one of those things that he will always forget to put into the Character of his Papist Represented But why must the Minds of Men be racked in this manner Why must they be brought under the most dangerous Temptations to cheat themselves and for the gaining of rest from outward Miseries to betray the Tranquillity of their own Consciences and be constrained to play such Tricks with them as if one Man should chuse to put upon another he would be accounted no better than a cunning Knave He that cannot see the true Reason of this unmerciful dealing and that too by this very Example can see but little It is Vnion that is to say Submission to what they call the Catholic Apostolic and Roman Church that must be by these means or by any means carried on This we meet with at the very head of the Provisions and again at the foot of them in the Bishop's Certificate Nor are any of the Reformed to expect otherwise but that this shall be expresly insisted on But because the poor People knew that Union to that Church carried dreadful Things along with it therefore they strugled and it seems they gained one of the prittiest Limitations of that Vnion that ever was heard of viz. To believe and to profess all the Christian and Orthodox Truths contained in the Holy Scripture which God hath manifested to the Prophets Apostles and Evangelists But then this Limitation would make the Vnion very insignificant for thus one may be united to the Turk viz. to believe and to profess all the Christian and Orthodox Truths contained in the Holy Scripture And therefore something must be added to that and certainly greater Artifice on both sides shall seldom be seen than what is shewn in putting in these words after the manner which that Church dos use which may indifferently refer either to reuniting or believing The People may understand it of being united to the Roman Church after the manner it uses till the Bishop teaches them to understand it of believing the Christian Truths of the Scripture after the manner of that Church And so by understanding the Scripture after the Interpretation and Sense of the Vniversal Church the Bishop has his meaning and they have theirs as long as he will suffer them The most jealous Princes never treated more nicely for their Honour than these poor Protestants did for their Conscience and their Masters for the Church of Rome And considering that they had but two hours allowed them to unite to the Roman Church before the last Extremity should be used upon refusal and that there were Difficulties on both Sides the Protestants consulted for their Consciences as much as it was possible for Men to do

Approved Councils or whether she has not The two Points are the Doctrine of the Invocation of Saints and the Doctrine of Worshipping Images If she has not done it then in the Church of Rome there can be no Doctrine concerning these two things which can be called a Doctrine of Faith. The Vindicator therefore will say I hope that she has delivered her Sense by her Voice And so I ask him in the Second place Whether by the Doctrine which the Church delivers he understands only so many Words put together and not rather the Sense of those Words which the Voice of the Church uses that is which her General and Approved Councils have put together to express their Meaning by This is a Question which the Vindicator must needs understand because I do in effect but borrow it of his Friends For the like Question has been often put to us by them and particularly by his good Friend the Representer and it may be by himself viz. Whether by the Scriptures we understand the Words or the Sense So say I by the Doctrines of Faith which the Vindicator says are delivered by the Voice of the Church in her General Councils Does he mean the Sense or the Words only of her Councils I will for once answer for him That he means the Sense which is contained under the Words I ask him therefore the Third time Whether the Sense of those Words which his General Councils have put together Pag. 6. be not as he says what truly we ought to mean by Popery If I may be bold to answer for him once more he must needs grant it For if the Churches Doctrine of Faith be the same with the Sense of her General Councils and if that which we ought to call Popery and to mean by Popery be the Churches Doctrine of Faith it will go very hard if Popery be not the Sense of her General Councils And now the Odious Distinction clears up apace in going this way to work For if that part of Popery which is made by Doctrines of Faith be neither more nor less than the Sense of General Councils concerning such Doctrines as we Protestants disclaim it follows presently that the Sense of those Councils is what we ought to call Popery And therefore 1. I humbly conceive that if there be two Parties in the Church of Rome that are not agreed what the Sense of her General Councils is it follows out of hand that so far they are not agreed about Popery and that for this very good Reason Because the Sense of her General Councils and the Faith part of Popery according to him is all one and indeed but two Expressions of the same thing 2. It follows also That in what Sense soever either of those Parties takes the Words of the Churches Councils that Sense is and must necessarily be that Parties Popery because the Sense of her Councils being Popery that which is to one Party the Sense of her Councils must likewise be Popery to that Party 3. If therefore one of those Parties takes the Words of her Councils in one Sense and another takes the same Words in a contradictory Sense then because the Sense in which the former takes those Words is the Popery of or to that Party and the Sense of the latter is its Popery it unavoidably follows that there are two pretended Poperies betwixt those two Parties which are inconsistent with one another 4. If the Sense of one of these Parties was that which prevailed without Controul ever since the Council of Trent till very lately and the Sense of the other Party is therefore but of yesterday then of these two Poperies the former must needs be the Old Popery and the latter the New Popery 5. So much Reason as we have to believe the Old Popery to be the true Sense of the Churches Councils rather than the New one so much reason also we have to believe that the Old Popery is the True Popery and the New to be but an Imposture or a Mistake of those of the Roman Church that have of late brought it up 6. And lastly If Protestants did not make those different Senses for them but each Party in that Church made them for themselves then this Distinction of an Old and a New Popery is no Misrepresentation Falsification or Calumny of Protestants but a Distinction grounded upon the Real Disagreement of Papists about Popery Quod erat demonstrandum But I think that Men were never put to it as we are to make solemn proof of things that are so evident that they need not to be proved at all The Council of Trent determines That we are to fly to the Prayers the Help and the Assistance of the Saints If we would know the Councils Sense in this Matter the Old ones will tell us that the meaning is we should have recourse to them for other Aids besides their Prayers And as one would verily take this for the meaning from the Construction of the Words themselves so the Terms of Invoking the Saints which were then used in their Offices and still are so do manifestly favour that Interpretation But our New Expositors come and tell us that they require no other Aid and Assistance from the Saints than their Prayers and the Vindicator intimates that if they did we should have something to say against the Lawfulness of what they practise If Popery therefore be not so much the Words of the Council in which I acknowledge they all agree as the Sense of the Council in which they do not agree how is it possible but that here are two Poperies in this matter advanced amongst themselves one against the other Again The Council of Trent affirms That due Honour and Veneration is to be given to Images And therefore what one Party in that Church takes to be that due Honour is Popery to them because 't is the Sense of the Church to that Party And what another believes to be so is their Popery And here I am sure if we find a Harmony 't is made up all of Discords Indeed one would have thought that the Council by Due Honour and Veneration had meant that Worship which was at that time given to Images in the Roman Church which their Offices required and for which their most celebrated Writers had contended And this way of coming to the Sense of the Council must lead a Man to the Popery of giving the same Honour to the Image that is due to the Prototype or at least an Inferior Honor by which the Image might be said to be truly and properly worshipped For the former Sense Cardinal Capisucchi does at this day earnestly contend and very fairly argues it against all Opposers from the Words of the Council But the Bishop of Meaux and the Representer and the Vindicator are as cross to that Sense as downright Contradiction can make them They say See Second Def. p. 31 32 c. That in presence of

Images respect is paid to the Persons whom they represent but Images themselves are not to be worshipped No God forbid but only used to put us in mind of the Original Thus they explicate the Language i. e. give us the Sense of their Church in her Decisions of Faith But so I dare say as it was never explicated before However if these Gentlemen believe the Sense of the Council to be as they say I wonder how it comes to pass that the Vindicator should not acknowledge it to be Popery For he must not forget that Popery is the Sense of the Church which she delivers by her Voice in Councils and therefore that the Sense of the Councils Words it truly Popery And consequently what He and His Party take to be their Sense they must in spite of their Hearts confess to be their Popery unless they care not how inconsistently they talk And then I would ask the Vindicator whether it be possible to reconcile his and the Bishops Sence with Cardinal Capisucchi's and those of his way The Truth is the Vindicator has given up the Cause for by saying that we bring only the private Sentiments of Men which other Members of the same Church condemn he confesses that they do in these things condemn one another Which perfectly acquits us from the charge of misrepresenting them when we say that there are two sorts of Popery amongst them by which we never meant any thing else than that one Party of them and that the greater does earnestly contend that that is Popery which the other utterly disclaims and does therefore set up another Sense of their Councils and their publick Offices opposite to that of the former As for his calling the Sentiments of the opposite Party Private Sentiments If he means that they keep their Persuasions to themselves and do not trouble the Church with them He is to know that as the Men are not private but of great Note and Authority in the R. Church and the number of their Followers far more considerable than of theirs who condemn them so their Sentiments are not private neither but as publick as Disputing for them and censuring and punishing their Opposers can make them But if I can understand him by private Sentiments he means the Sentiments of Men out of Council so that no measure is to be taken of the Doctrine of their Church by what is delivered by such Men tho they be Bishops or Cardinals and their number never so great and their Declarations never so publick and notorious and their Censures never so sharp against those that oppose them for still they are but the private Sentiments of Men out of Council Why then must the Representers or the Vindicators or even his Lordship the Bishop of Meaux's Sentiments concerning the Doctrine of the Church go for any other than the private Sentiments of Men For their Expositions have been neither made nor approved in General Councils Must Cardinal Capisucchi the Archbishop of Bourdeaux and Father Crasset with his Holy Bishops and Learned Doctors nay and with the Learned of all Nations be said to deliver only the Sentiments of private men whilest a few Teachers that arose in this Age whose Party is despicable who labour under the marks of Insincerity whose Doctrine being professed in good earnest is persecuted by that Church whose Faith it is said to be whilst those Men I say must be thought to deliver the True and Genuine Doctrine of the Church But if neither the one side nor the other side delivers the Sense of the Church Who knows what the Sense of the Church is and how shall I come by it The Vindicator directs me to the Express Words of General and Approved Councils But then I must needs ask him Who is to be Judge of the Sense of those express Words I see express Words indeed and I am very apt to think that I do understand the Sense of plain and express Words But if I may be allowed to understand express Words why can I not as well understand such Words in the Scriptures as in their Councils For the Words of the Scripture seem to me to be very expresly against many things that are held in the Church of Rome And here I have been told that this is not the Sense of the Scripture but my private Sense that the Scripture is a Dead Letter till the Churches Interpretation gives it Life and Sense that private Judgment is Fallible and therefore not to be relied upon that the same places seem to be express to one Man for this thing and to another Man for that thing that so many private Heads as there are so many Bibles there will be that after all our assurance that we understand plain and express Texts of Scripture there is no certainty to be had but by submitting to Authority and receiving Doctrines of Faith not from the Scripture but from the Church Well I submit to the Church and ask Where or by whom she delivers her Sence concerning Doctrines of Faith Ans By her Voice in her General and Approved Councils But where is that Voice to be heard Ans In the express Words of those Councils I go therefore to those Councils God help them that can't Here indeed I find express Words if a Man could but tell how to come to the Sense of them for I thought my self very sure of the meaning of express Words of Scripture But it seems I was mistaken then What assurance have I that I am not mistaken now For express Words are but as express Words in the Councils as they are in the Scriptures And if my Sence of such Words in the Scripture was but a private Sence before my Sence also of such Words in the Councils is no more now And therefore if I must trust to my own private Sence I shall be sorely tempted to go back again and to make as good a shift as I can with my private Sence and the Scriptures together rather than follow those who tell me my private Sence is not to be trusted and yet leave me to it at last For when all is done the Churches Sence according to this Man is a mere Notion of a thing that is no where to be found for the several Sences of her Words in Council are but the Sentiments of private Men which this Man opposes to the Sence of the Church to save his Church from two Poperies For instance if I go to Cardinal Capisucchi and his Party to ask them what the Churches Sence is of that due Honour and Veneration that is to be given to Holy Images they tell me the very same that is given to the Persons represented by them But what am I the nearer for this is but the Sentiment of private Men. I go to ask the Bishop of Meaux and his Party and they cry God forbid the Church requires no such thing But I conceive his Sentiment is as private as the Cardinals and so