answer I may err iudgment so may others even whole churches therefore let euery man look how he iudgeth and how he deâ—endeth on other men and let evey mans â—udgment be tried by the scriptures For this cause we say vnto you seing we haue fought for the judgement of other churches but can get no answer procure you some reasons from them in defence of your church ministerie worship and ecclesiasticall gouerâ—ment and if by Gods word they can justâ—fy those things and evince that we haue done evil to depart from you we will returne vnto you Otherwise if they reioyce neuâ—r so mâ—ch for your estate we are verâ—ly perswaded that both they and you haue more causâ— to mourne for the many abominations that are amâ—ng 〈◊〉 To conclude consider in an example the weight of your argument for by the like reâ—son the envious ministers in Pauls time mought thus haâ—e justâ—fied themselues That mâ—nisterie and ministration for which the Apostles of Christ reioyce is true to be obeyed and continued in But our ministery and minâ—stration is such as for it the Apostle Paul reioyceth yea and will râ—ioyce Philip â— 16.18 If you Answer the Apostle reioyced for the preaching of Christ not forthe envious affection of the preachers who might be damned themselues notwithstanding their true doctrine it is true And so minde I for the reformed churches They reioyce for the many truthes you profesâ—e against Popery as we also doe the like yet may you neverthelesse perish for your false constitution idolatrous worship popish hierarchie and other transgressions that are among you Amend your liues therefore and turne your feet into the wayes of peace for if you rely vpon man anâ— make â—lesh yoâ—r arme and will not heâ—r the word of the Lord that condemneth your iniquities you shâ—ll perish in your sinns other châ—rches shall not be able to excuse of sâ—ue you ARGVMENTS That the PREACHERS of the best assemblies of the church of ENGLAND are true ministers of Christ. I THâ— prâ—achers after whose publick powerfull doctrine of the word do ordinarily follow repeÌ„â—ance conuersion to God sauing fayth in Christ loue to the brethrâ—n and oâ—heâ— fruits of the spiâ—it Gal. 5 6 22. in the hearers are true ministers of God and of the visible châ—rcâ— But â—fter â—he dâ—ctrine of Gods word taught by the preachers of our best asseâ—bliâ—s doe ordâ—narily appear the fruites of the spirit in the hearers Thâ—refore thâ— preachers of our best assemblies are true ministers of Christ. The â—roposition is proued because onely the word that God doth send in the 〈◊〉 oâ— his ministers is ordinarily effectuâ—ll for these things Ier. 23 22 Esa. 55 11. Mat 7 20 Luk 1 76 Ioh. 10.1 2. 1 Cor 9 1. â— 4 15. Thâ— assumption is proued by the answer to the assumption of the 4 argumeâ—◠〈◊〉 thâ— churcheâ— Answer OVR separation is from your Church consisting of many assemblieâ— all compact into ore bodâ—e and from all your Ministerie both prelacie and priesthood We cannot tel which assemblies or ministers be best for they that seem best may proue worst because they most deceiue the simple the wolf that comes in a sheeps coat is no whit better than he that commeth in his natiue hiew but he may doe more harm in that he is disguised Reason would perswade vs that the Bishops are the preachers of your best assemblies for they haue greatest dignity fatherhood and authority in your church they preach in the highest and most honorable assemblies of the land they are most carefull to obserue their oath of due obedience to keep the canonâ— orders lawes and ceremonies of your church and set themselues against such as secretly vndermine the state of the church and ministerie of England yet openlie stand members and professed friends of the same They and their assemblies are best ordered after the constitution and lawes of your church So that to speak as I think I know not which assemblies be best where the Leven hath sow red the whole lump though I can guesse which you doe mean but plain dealing about your ministers and asâ—emblies would haue beseemed you best Tel vs therefore when you next write what ministers you mean whether the Bishops Deanes Doctors c. that are in the cathedrall churches or the Doctors and Diuines that are in your vniuersities or thâ— Parsons Vicars Lecturers that are in your Parishes Again what Ministers they be whither Apostles or Prophets or Evangelists or Pastors or Teachers for all these are ministers Eph. 4. and meet it is to know your meaning for though Apostles and Pastors be both ministers ordeined of Christ yet if one will say everie Pastor is an Apostle he is but a liar So you see it is needfull that we ransack these your ambiguous and generall termes Now for your argument first I answer to the proposition that though these fruites you mention doe many times follow the doctrine of Christs ministers yet not theirs onely nor alwaies Not onelie because other men that are not in office of Ministerie may by excercise of their gifts work such fruites as appeareth 1 Cor. 14.1.31.3.24 25. c. I appeal also to your selues whether you thinke not that your best ministers though silenced or degraded from all ministeriall office may not when they teach work repentance fath and other fruites of the spirit Neither doe these fruites alwayes follow the doctrine of true ministers for Noah preached 120· yeares yet followed there not faith and repentance in the old world Christ himselfe preached to Chorazin and Bethsaida yet left the woe vpon them and complaineth in Esaias that he had laboured in vayn among the Iewes and of Israel it is said All the day long haue I stretched out my hand a disobedient and gâ—ynsaying people To reason therefore from the effects this man wrought faith by his teaching therefore he is a true minâ—ster or this man wrought not faith by his teaching therefore no true minister is vnsound and vnconcludable by the scriptures The â—roofs of your proposition being examined wil be found to light for your purpose if you mean that the officers doctrine onely or alwayes is effectuall for these thinâ—s to weet repentance faith c often I know it is and alwayes it hath effect eyther to life or death in the hearers Your scriptures are Ier 23 22. which sheweth what true prophets should labour to doe namely to turne sinners from their evill way c whereas the false prophets did otherwise Eze 13 22 but proueth not that the prophets onely did this for the Priests and Levites did it also Mal 2 6 yea priuate men may often turne their neighbours from evill Leu 4 27.8 19.17 Prou. 31.26 Mal. 3 16 Mat. 18.15 Iam. 5.19 20. neyther proveth it that the prophets alwayes did this for Esaias crieth Lord who hath beleeued our report Isa. 53.1 and it is written that the Lord testified to Israel by all the Prophets
them which also he was willing a gentleman should haue printed in his own name that M Bern. might haue slept in a whâ—le 〈◊〉 whither himselfe I say and his fellow Reformists who are disaâ—oyntâ—d of their hope be not sorry for this prosperitie let themselues say As for vt we haue learned not to fret or enâ—y when we see the wicked flourish for they shall soâ—n be cut down as grasse and wither as the green herb Sory we are indeed for their lamentable estate and desire that they may find mercy at the hands of the Lord. Our foâ—rth kind of sinne he sayth is our abusing of the werd misaleging and 〈◊〉 it c. This was the third of his probabilities before answered and is here for a shew mustred agayn among our sinns but nakedly and without all proof I leaue it therefoâ—e to the reproof of God and to the godly iudgements of all that shall read our writings and allegations of the scriptures The 5. sinne is our wilfull persisting in our schisme This is agayn to beg the question first let it appear to be schisme that we are in let the reasons aâ—d grounds of our separation be orderly dealt in and soundly convinced by Gods word then if we yeild not let vs be holden wilfull Otherweise to persist in wel doing is good And as easily do the Papists cal Protestants schismaticks as they vs. Whether M Bernard with all the helps that he hath had from other men hath conuinced vs of schisme let the godly judge If reproching of vs and idle excursions into by matters be a conuiction doubtleâ—â—e he hath done it better then any before him The 6. syn is our rayling and sâ—â—ffing and as he sayth Henry Barrowes blasphemies who hath â—grâ—giously abused all their holyest exercises of religion c. I answer if such sinne be in any of vs it is even by our selues condemned and â—f by humane infirmity any haue been ouertaken with vnseasoned speeches we desire the Christian reader to bear with and pardon it in vs as himselfe would haue pardon of God The like hath Mr. Barrâ—â— earnestly intreated in his Preface to his Discouery as the reader may see so farr was he from delighting in such wayes Secondly I answer howsoeuer I will not justify all the words of another man nor yet mine own for in many things we sinne all that many of the thâ—ngs which this man counteth raylings scoffs and blasphemies are no other speaches them the holâ— Ghost hath vsed before vs in the scriptures and applâ—ed to like persons and seemed as harsh to men of those times as these doe to men now Thirdly it is lâ—kely that some be rather the printers fault vnlesse Mr. Bernard hath forged them himselfe then Mr Barrowes Fourthly the Reformists themselus amongst whome Mr Bern. sometimes seemed one haue uttered as hard speeches against the Prelateâ— other corruptions of their own church though now like time seruers they gloze with their reuerend Fathers as this man maketh the first of Mr Barrowes raylings scoffs and blasphemies to be his caling the Bishops Antichristian But how many volumâ—s haue themselues heretofore written of this argument And who amongst vs hath euer dealt as did Marâ—in Marprelate among themselues Finally Mr. Barrow did sharply in 〈…〉 against the reforming preachers as being the greatest deceiuers of the people vnder shew of holines This maketh them aâ—ayn so eâ—er agaiâ—st him but whither he spake not right of them may in part be seen already time will shew more they can no longer halt as hitherto they haue but eyther they must recâ—ncile them to thâ—ir Fathâ—rs or quite forsake them and a bleâ—sed work of God it is that the most dangerous seducers should thus first be discouâ—â—â—d THe third and last sort of reasons which M. Bern. vseth against vs is Our errors and as he sayth the matter of our sâ—hisme The errors which he reckneth vp and vndertaketh to confute arâ— ten The first of them is that we hold the constitution of their church to be a false constitution To this he sayth 1. That we cannot proue this simply by any playn docâ—rine of scripture c. 2. That it is against the euidence of the scriptures which maketh the word Mat. 28.19 Mar 16 15. 2 Cor. 5.19 11 2. Iob 23.23.24 Act. 2.14.37.38 16.32.33 the externall profeâ—sion Act. 8.12.37.38 and Sacraments Mat. 28 19. 1 Cor. 10.16 the visible and true constitution of a company so gathered and knâ—t together and so was theirs constituted as that book of Mr. Ber. sheweth and as in another ere long shal be plainly manifested c. First Mr Ber. setteth down barely this as our position and doctrine not nameâ—ng place or boâ—k where it is written nor the proofs that we make of it but peremâ—torily sayth we cannot proue it Whereas it hath in many books by many playn doctrines of scripture been euidently proued so as Mr Bern. and all his fellow priests could neuer yet make a playn and direct answer And if when book is writen after booke no refutation be made but a bare deneyall as here M. Bern. sayth we cannot proue it I say the ministers of Engl. may so turne away any thing but with what credit or conscience the wise will judge Secondly for M. Bernards reason it selfe wanteth a good constitution being to confuâ—edly set down as a man knowes not what he makes the constitution of a church or how he would conclude that their church is constituted aright He pretends the word to be the Constitution of a church whereas the scriptures that he quoteth and reason it selfe might teach him that the word is the instrument or meanes of Constituting conseruing the church constituted so also be the sacraments But as the constitution of a common wealth or of a city is a gathering and vniting of people togither into a ciuill polity so the Constitution of the common wealth of Israel as the church is called and of the city of God the new Ierusalem is a gathering and vniting of people into a diuiue politie the form of which polity is Order as the heathens acknowledged calling polity an order of a city which Order is requisite in all actions and administrations of the church as the Apostle * sheweth and specially specially in the constitution thereof so that next vnto faith in God it â—s to be esteemed most necessary for all holy societies Wherefore Paâ—l rejoyced for these two things in the Church at Colâ—ssâ— euen their order their stedfast faith in Christ. Now whereas to the constitâ—tioÌ„ of a châ—rch there belong â— a people as the mattâ—r whereof and 2 a calling gathering and vniting togither as the form whereof the church consisteth in both these the Constitution of the Church of Engl. hath in sundry treatises been â—roued false For with them all sorts of profane worldly and wicked â—ersons are receiued as the matter whereof
of the archangel Michael Boniface the 8. shewed like honour to the 4 Euangelists and many other memorable gests are recorded of the Fathers of the See of Rome whereof there is not a word in the Testament of Christ that he or his disciples did euer the like For they appoynted not priests apparall long gownes tippers 4. horned capps as did Pope Zacharie nor a white linen surplice at seruice time as did Pope Syluester 1. They hallowed no Temples or Churches as did P. Hyginus nor Churchyards as did P. Calistus 1 Neyther ordeyned ringing of bells to call the people to diuine seruice as did P. Sabinian They appointed no Rood-loft to part the Chancel from the church as did P. Bâ—niface 2 nor hallowed Font to Christen in or Godfathers and Godmothers at baptisme as did P Pius 1. and Hyginus They commanded not the people to goe procession as did Pope Agapetus 1. nor appoynted any Bishoping or Confirmation of children as did P Clement 1. with a great number more of like pranks vsed in the Romish seruice which Christs Apostles knew not as their writings shew But the church of Engl. as next heir of Romes constitutions reteyneth these reliques obserueth these rites and a many moe for which the Papists doe insult and say that from their treasure house the religion now established hath learned the forme of christening Marrying Churching of women Visiting the sick Burying and sundry other likâ— as the books translated out of theirs doe declare And now what sayth Gods law for all such things vnto his people I am sayth he the Lord your God After the doing of the land of Aegypt wherein ye dwel shall ye not doe and after the doing of the land of Canaan whether I will bring you shall ye not doe neyther walke in their ordinances My iudgments shall ye doe and my ordinances shall ye keep to walke in them I am the Lord your God Thus he forbad them not onely the worship of false Gods but euen the imitation of idolatrous worship rites and ordinances in his seruice wherfore he charged them againe that they should not so much as inquire or ask how the nations serued their Gods that they might doe so to the Lord their God But whatsoever he commanded them they should make heed to doe it putting nothing thereto nor taking ought therfrom Yet the Bishops and Priests of Engl. haue almost all things in their Leiâ—ourgie according to the doings of that spiritual Aegypt the Romish church wherein they dwelt and haue imitated her worships‘ orders ceremonies c. reteyned her ministery prelacy courts and canons thâ— Latine being turned into English and some grosse superfluities left ouâ— And in defense of this worship haue these godly ministers written Mr Bernard published their work wherein if the reader see not a soâ—nd proof of the things that Mr Barrow whose errors they pretend to confute reproued he must impute it to the badnes of their cause which wil scars admit of any colour from the booke of God For besides the abuse of holy scriptures alleged to iustify these popish stratagems how sound diuine or rather how fond and corrupt is the reasoning of these men from Gods example and authority vnto their own practise and power that because the Lord God gaue formes of blessing prayer and psalmes to his people as the scriptures which they cite doe shew therefore their Lords the Prelates may giue them also prescript words for blessing prayer and Psalmes c. as is to be seen in their seruice book Can we thinke that Ieroboam had so slender a reason for his goldeÌ„ calues Why doe not these men also plead that God gaue a law by Moses therefore ther may a law be giuen likewise by the Bishops or th' Apostles wrote a new Testament therefore the Conuocation house may also write a Testament or Gospel bring it into the church If the Prophets practise will bear them ovt in the one I see no cause why it may not vphold them in the other Wel seing neyther Mr Gifford heretofore nor these ministers now can bring better defense for the work of their own hands wherewith they worship or rather prouoke the Lords I leaue them to consider of those lawes that euery where cry ovt against and shew the punishment of idolatrie Neyther is it needfull to keep the Reader with longer answer seing Mr Barrow in the fornamed books and Mr Greenwood in a peculiar treatise against these stinted prayers and seâ— worship haue proued the vnlawfulnes of them by many reasons which neyther these ministers nor any other haue yet taken away And when they write agayn let them not bring proofs for things that we deney not as that Daunds Psalmes may be sung in the church and that in our prayers we may vse or apply the words that other holy men before vsed in their prayers vpon like occasions both these we grant and practise but let them proue if they be able and their right hand can help them that their own writetnn prayers psalmes c. may be read and sung in churches churchâ—â— as Gods true worship and then also they may command the clowdes to rayn no more and may cause to cease the bottels of heauen Like to their former plea and maintenance of their seruice booke is also their answer for Catechismes as for Homilies it seemes they leaue the the defense of them to the simple priests that read them but Catechismes are vsed euen by the learned preachers therefore somewhat they say for them as that the principles of religion were taught in the churches of old RoÌ„ 2.20 6 17.2 Tim 1 13 Heb. 5.12.13 14 and 6 1.2 But these ministers are eyther simple or very deceitfull so to turne away from the question For we neuer deneyed that the grounds and heads of Christian religion should be taught to the people far be it from vs but this we say the Prophets and Apostles are not found to prescribe set words for the minister to teach or the people to answer being examined And that therefore these Bishops and Priests are very presumptuous that wil take vpon them to doe that which Christs Apostles neuer did in the churches Agayn that if those men of God had to done yet seing the writings of Prophets and Apostles are canonicall scriptures and so are no mens writings now it will by no meanes follow that if they wrote catechismes to be vsed in the Church therefore men may writ some for like vse now Yea rather why are they not content with that which is already written in the scriptures but run to erroneous catechismes of humane writers such as is that authorized catechisme in the book of common prayer commanded to be vsed in the church of England Hauing heard what these godly ministers say for their people and seruice book I exspected somewhat also for defense of their own minister and the ecclesiasticall gouernment of
COVNTERPOYSON CONSIDERATIONS touching the poynts in difference between the godly ministers and people of the Church of England and the seduced brethen of the Separation ARGVMENTS That the best assemblies of the present Church of England are true visible Churches That the Preachers in the best assemblies of Engl. are true ministers of Christ. Mr BERNARDS book intituled The SEPARATISTS SCHISME Mr CRASHAWES Questions propounded in his Sermon preached at the Crosse. Examined and Answered by HENRY AINSWORTH Lord God the strength of my saluation couer thou my head in the Day of battel Psal. 140.7 RIGHT RIGHT Printed in the yeare 1642. A fore-speech to the Christian reader THE truth and church of God by multitude of enemies hath euer been dâ—sgraced and troden down in the world that many which haue seemed to loue and seek after it haue stumbled at the reproch oppotision of the same Yet the godly wise haue vnderstood discerned things that differ It is a great help vnto the weak and simple when the deceits and snares wherewith the adversarie seeketh to destroy the sowl are oâ—enly discouered by the light of Gods word and for this cause haue I endeauoured according to the measure of knowledge and grace giuen vnto me to make answer vnto such reasons cauils and calumniations as are giuen out against that part of the truth which this church witnesseth vnto the world touching our separation from the Church of Engl. the Considerations Arguments first answered were written by Mr Spr a Minister of Glocestershire in them as I suppose the summ and weight of that which may be sayd for that church is comprised Mr Bernards booke hath rather shew then weight of reason as the iudicious reader may perceiue and seemeth to be penned by him rather for disgrace of others then defence of themselues But no better fruit can be exspected from such as rebel against the light which themselues once seemed to regard Mr Crashawes questions are rather to stumble at then to direct the ignorant as hauing neyther weight of argument against vs nor for themselues Yet as by al these meanes the truth is oppugned so by all contrary good meanes it should be defended that wisdome may be iustified of all her children and others left without excuse How weak and insufficient the aduersaries reasons are in partiular the answers vnto them more parâ—icularly will shew Here I will briefly obserue some generall things whereby falshood endeavoureth to vphold it selfe and how it may by the prudente be discried Vntruth hatâ— sought to preuayl 1. By perseâ—uting such as haue spoken against or forsaken her iniquitie iniquitie This the blood of Gods martyrs shed in all ages proclaimeth vnto all men And thus haue the chief Pastors of the Church of England dealt with Christs lambs in these our dayes For hauing gotten into their hands the sword of the Magistrate they there with haue smitten such as with the word the sword of the spirit they could not conuince In which they fulfill the measure of their Fathers for so haue the Papall Prelates vsed to feed their flocks 2. By blaspheming and preaching against the faith witnesses therof For they that hold forth the truth are exposed to the reproch venim of the tongue and many vniust calumniations come forth against their persons especially the principall of them whom evill minded men doe most maligne Also the cause it selfe is often wronged whiles the truth thereof and reasons that vphold it are svâ—pressed arguments feighned and confuted which wer neuer made or otherwise made then the aduersaries pretend and sometimes such articles and errors imputed as from which it is altogether free How others heretofore haue caried themselues this way all records shew how men at this day haue dealt with vs and the truth which we imbrace many pulpits in Engl. can witnesse besides priuate calumnies innumerable and some publicke pamphletes The stinch of their reprochfull mouthes hath caused many to distast the sweet sauour of the Gospell and caused also for a while a dislike in sundry of vs till God in mercy visited and saued vs from the deceitfull tongue 3. Yet is not this yenough but men seek to bear down the truth by writing against and to the defamation of the same with all exquisite cunning and frawd to disgrace it and by plausible reasons to perswade vnto error If any would see this let the generall arguments vsed at this day against vs consonant and agreable to the reasons of Papists other ancient adversaries of the Gospel be obserued 1. The Papists haue continually exclaimed against them for leauing their mother the ch of Rome that bare them crying out the Church the Church the Catholike church and saying that Luther and all the pack of their first fathers were children of their mother the Catholike Church and are gone out from them And when the Protestants obiected her sinns for which they left her it was pleaded againe will ye forsake your mother because shee wanteth perfect bewty or because there is some deformity in her c Moreouer they would allege to proue them schismatiks how in that ch thâ—y had been regenerated and made hâ—r citezens and members by baptisme c that from her they had their first faith and knowledge yea euen the Bible it selfe which treasure their church euer had the custody of and many such like These are the mayn reasons obiected to vs at this day they tel vs the Church of England is the mother of the faithfull that the ministery thereof hath begotten vs if euer we were truely begotten in the spirit asking us where els we were regenerate â—f not in the womb of that their church c. And if we tell them of their transgressions for which we forsake them they answer though there were in our church these wounds you speake of yet doe they not come neare the hart they be not deadly they may blemish the bewty but endanger not the life of our church c. thereforâ— your separation from vs is scismaticall and vniust and many such like pleas they pretend 2 For the châ—rch of Rome it hath by her Mediators been alleged that in her is reteyned the pâ—ofession of Christ authorety of scriptures and Apostolike doctrine as touching all the chief or capitall articles of religion and that the church is to be esteemed by the foundation thereof which is Chrst on which foundation though they that came after builded wood and hay and stubble instead of siluer and gold and precious stones yet haue they not by and by departed from the foundation c. Now who knoweth not that this is the bulwarke of the church of Eng. now against all batteries and one of the chiefest reaâ—ons whereby they reteyn many simple and wel affected people among them and that may be also seen in this book following pag. 43.105 119. 123. and in many other of their writings 3.
Vniuersall consent agreement and applause of Churches in al nations of Synodes and Councels of Fathers and learned men haue been the continuall boast of Papists in all their books against the Protestants now they in Enâ—l to beare out their estate vrge agayn and agayn the like against vs that when Gods word will not vphold them yet mans word at least may honour them before the people See after in this treatise pag 9. 22. 44 5. 89 91.92.128 4. Whereas the truth hath brought for her defense the evident scriptures papists haue been wont to carp at the allegations and interpretations of them and chalenge their aduersaries for corrupting them the formall protestants in Engl. haue done the like against the Reformists and they now use the like colour against vs but how truely let the particulars shew after in this book pag. 90.91.97 5. To reuile and calumniate such as forsooke them hath been the coÌ„mon practise of Papists calling them heretiks schismatikes Lutherens Calumists c. and matching them with wicked heretiks heretofore now liuing The same way doe our aduersaries now walke in proclayming vs to be Schismatiks Seduced Brownists Donatists c. and to make vs the more odious vnto the people they enroll vs sometime with the most vile blasphemers that they can mention For he was esteemed a forward â—reacher amâ—ng them who to grace his own cause by disgracing the truth would needs ioyn vs with the blasphemer Hacket sometimes a brother of the reformists and hot mainteyner of their cause to make his malice the more remarkable he puts in the margine of his book The brownest and Hacket of an euill spirit and that which he writeth besides is so fraudulently set down that the simple reader who knowâ—th not our cause may thinke that this Hacket was one of vs. This abuse we suâ—fer because forsooth we were thought to hinder their couÌ„terfeyt reformation which Hacket would haue set vp by force for which they beare their reproch at his hands that wrote English Scottizing for discipline but this man most iniuriously would turn it vpon vs. These and the like arguments doe euill men continually vse against the truth which presseth them and which they seek to suppresse but all in uayne for it will preuayl mangre their opposition and that which they thinke to hinder the Gospell bâ— God will turne to the furtherance of the same and confusion of his aduersaries Against these and all other like colours wherewith false churches aâ— adorned two meanes haue been vsed for to discouer the falshood thâ— one manifesting the fact or estate of a person or people the other the lawfulnesse of the same The commandement of God is a lantern and the law a light to declare what is good or euill and evidences there are of euery publick estate and action For in al ages God hath moued some to obserue and speake against the abuses reigning and some haue recorded things for their glory which turne vnto their shame â—y this meanâ— the skirts of the whore of Rome haue been discouered whiles some that loued and othersome that loathed her haue painted out her filthinesse which being compared with the chastitie of Christs spowse set forth in holy writ hath caused righteous men as was foretold to iudge her children after the manner of harlots and of murtherers and the very hornes of that beast to hate the whore and burne her with fire And we at this day that witnesse the truth against the remainders of that whores cup are driuen to breake silence to plead for Christ in publik because the aduersaries so importune vs by continuall preaching and writing against vs and seeking to bear out all with the cloke â—f the gospel and to hide the iniquities vnder a vaile of professing truthes fundamentall they will hardly be a known of the manifold euils and grosse corruptions that preuayl in their assemblies Therefore also are we forced to produce their own writers for to witnes with vs who both heretofore and to this day complayn of the sinns that reign among them And worthy it is to be obserued how the ministers of England are come to contradict and depart from their own grounds for to mainteyn their corrupt estate For now they vtterly deney the visible church to be a company of faithfull people that truely worship Christ and readily obey him coâ—traâ—y both to all the scriptures and to their own Articles d of religioâ— Aâ—d Mr Bernarde in the name of all the diuines in their church yea if we â—ay beleâ—ue him of all the reformed Churches in Christendome telleth vs with a marginall note also to haue it wel obserued that the true word of God preached and true sacraments of Christ administred are infallible tokeâ—s of a true church I say not saith he the word truely preachâ—d nor the sacrâ—mâ—nts rightly administred but thus the true word preached the true sacrâ—mâ—nâ—â— administred Now lay these things together and see what a holy communion they will make the church of God to be namely if not a roâ—t of miscreants yet at least a mesceline multitude of beleeuers and infidelâ— holy and profane Among whome it the true word be preached though neuer so curruptly falsly peruersly by any Popeling Baalist or Balaamite if the true sacraments be administred though neuer so superstitiausly profanely and disorderly to the open wicked c. yet there must needs be a true church Such heauenly doctrine or rather such hellish error is now taught by the transformed ministers for to make meÌ„ keep communion with Belial Against these and other like impostures haue I endeauoured to bring out the truth though naked and destitute of all wordly ornaments and by it to manifest the present aberations of my country from the primitiue faith of Christ I haue also produced their own testimonies a-against them that the Saincts on eart may say their rock is not as our Rock euen our enemies being iudges And if they will yet resist the world may see they are condemned by themselues But my harts desire and prayer for my brethren is that they may be saued turning from darknes to light and from the power of Satan vnto God that they may receiue forgiuenes of sinns and inheretance among them which are sanctified by faith in Christ. Hâ—nâ—y Ainsworth A Direction to some principall things conteyned in this book Administration of the Ministers of Engl scanned with the effects pag 14. c. 58. c. 60. c. 62. c. 109. c. 110. c. Antichrists kingdome not ouerthrowne by the ministers of Engl. pag. 61. c. Begetting of faith how it is pag. 5 6 It is no essentiall note of a true church p 6. It should be before the planting of a church p. 40 41 146. Building of the church and how it is performed in England p. 33 34 c Christ not the head Mediator Prophet Priest or
of al men by that word if men eyther will not trie nor giue sentence at all or doe judge amisse we are not bound to wayt vpon them but must liue by our own faith The reformed churches haue been wrâ—â—ten to by vs for we know and acknowledge them to be true churcheâ— and our brethren in the Lord they giue vs no Answer Shall wee coÌ„tinew still â—n boÌ„dage to Antichrâ—st til they bid vs com out What scripture teacheth vs so If they or any convince vs of error or evill and we yeeld not leâ— vs be esteemed accordingly otherwise if we walke in the truth and they will not approue it be it vpon them as they shal answer befâ—re the Lord. Mr. Iunius whom you mention to reply so sharply neyther approueth your Church nor condemneth our practice no not though he were instantly vrged the writings between him and us are extant to the world let the reader judge what both sides haue sayd Your censure of Mr Barrow or scoffing rather at him neyther hurteth him or vs nor helpeth you His playn dealing in reprouing the corruptions of these times you call rayling it is marvel you say not also the prophets rayled on the people of Israel when they vsed sharp rebukes for I suppose you can hardly shew any hard speech that Mr. Barrow ther writeth which the Prophets and Apostles haue not vsed before But if he were overcaried with some seuere speeches in a good cause‘ neyther we not himselfe euer iustified that infirmitie we know that we are frayl men let the sharpnesse therefore be his but the trueth which he sharply teacheth Gods And why carp you at the manner of his writing and meddle not with the matter That book with others haue discouered the idolatries of your church which neyther by you nor any haue euer yet been answered refuted by the scriptures For your self let the reader iudge what you â—aue sayd The 7 Consideration 7. THe great and grosse disorder and partiallity in administring of your disciplinâ— which George Iohnson sheweth cheerly besides the wants of sunctimony and common duties of godlynes which he sayth are to be found in farr greater measure in the câ—mmâ—n professâ—rs of the church of England and saith further that the Dutch churches take you for a most vnquiet conâ—entious and disorderly people Answer THis article you obiect vnto vs vpon one mans report that was for lying and slandering false accusation and contention himselfe cast out of our Church By what rule or word of God can you admit of the testimony of an excommunicate against a whole congregation Reason also might teach you that no man standing against a church to excommunication will ever speake wel of that church in the cause wherein he standeth But grant that this all were true which he reporteth what would you vrge vpon it that therefore Christianitie which we professe is evill so perhaps a Turk or Iew would doe with as much reason as you can conclude that our separation from you is euill Was there ever any truth think you that men did walke in it as they ought or any Church in the world wherein the discipline as you call it was administred as it should Iulian the Apostata that wrote so much against Christ reading the testimonies of Moses the Prophets and Apostles Deut. 9.7.22.24 Isa. 59 3 4 5 c. Mic. 3.9.11 1. Cor. 5.1.2 11.21.22 c. 3 Iohn 9.10 had as good ground to blame the Israelites and Christians for their manners discipline and consequently to disswade them from their faith as you do vs yea he might allege faithfull and vndeniable witnesses whereas you rely vpon a slanderer Finally what ayme you at in all this but to draw vs back vnto your church and there it is like we shall find discipline without disorder or partiallity to weet in your Bishops courts for there the discipline of your church is to be seen Of which we need say nothing the voyce almost of al the land crieth out of their abominations Onely we obserue how pregnant your perswasions are to make vs beleeu that because there ar sinns in Sion there be none in Babylon The 8 Consideration 8. GOD neuer witnessed for you nor gaue testimony of his approuing your separation whether we consider your ministerie or people For hardly can you shew any one person conuerted by your ministery from papistry or atheisme or other open wickednes as by Gods blessing multitudes haue been by ours but onely haue you seduced and wrought vpon the tender consciences of such as by our ministery were first begotten vnto Christ But which is specially to be obserued from your distracted and devided congregations multitudes haue fallen away to euery kind of impiety herisie reigning in the world Answer IF God approue our seperation and our ministerie by his word as we are surâ— he dooth it is yenoâ—gh though our ministery haue not conuerted any Your reason is as if a Câ—inite should haâ—e sayd vnto Nâ—ah God neuer witneâ—sed for thee nor gaue testimony of his approuing thy building of the Ark for hardly canst thou shew any one person converted by thy precahing or Ark building these 120. yeares Our ministery belongeth to our church the assemblies whereof Papists Athâ—ists such like wicked ones vse not to frequent and how is it poâ—sible â—ur ministery should conuert such as come not to heare it If we wâ—â—ld obiect vnto you that few Turks and Saracens haue been converred by yâ—ur mâ—â—isterie what would you answer Yet where you say â—e can harâ—ly shâ—w my c. we can if need wer shew you many that wer sometime profâ—in irreligious whiles they were of your church but coÌ„mâ—ng and heâ—râ—ng by Gods providence the doctrine of our church haue been reclâ—ymed from their lewd life doe walk holily in the faith with vs. It is true in â—eed that our cause hath wrought most vpoÌ„ such as being somtimes vnâ—er yoâ—r ministery had tender consciences pliable to the truth others of more corrupt consciences haue set against blasphemed it Tâ—e â—â—â—â—ideratioâ— of this in any wise mans iudgment wil rather lead vnto â—hen â—rom our cause when the better sort by your own confession do come vnto vs the worser and refuse remayn stil with you Your last poynt which you would haue specially to be obserued that multitudes haâ—e fallen from vs to every kind of heresie and impietie is indeed worthy to be obserued For first the scripture is fulfilled which sayth mâ—ny shâ—ll â—leaue vnto them faynedly Dan. 11.34 Secondly being fallen if they had com to a more holy faith better walking wheÌ„ they were gone out from vs it might haue importeâ— ours to be evil but now that they haue fallen to grosse heresie impietie it argueth Gods hand so be heavy vp on them because they continued not in the truth with vs. And this the scripture confirmeth saying of such as receiue not the loue of the truth
branches bear little fruit but vnto themselues and as Moses foretold their grapes are grapes of gal their clusters bitter for the publick idolatries vsed in your assemblies after the maner of the mother of Rome shew that your vine is of the vine of Sodom Christ prayed onely for them that should beleeu in him through the word that they all might be one in the Father and the Son as the Father in him and he in the Father but the true members of your best assemblies are one with the world for whome Christ would not pray being on spiritual body ioyned in communioÌ„ with the whol multitude of profane and wicked of the land That strange it is you should read the scriptures and not discerne how farr you are from being vnited with Christ who as himselfe was not of the world so neyther are his people but chosen and separated out of the same Whereas you bring no proof that your people haue true faith but by Mr Iohnsons confession it sheweth how distressed and helplesse your estate is Yet doe you great wrong to Mr. Io as the reader may see in the place that you cite For although considering them apart from the constitution of your Church he thinketh by the appearance of the knowledge faith and fruits of diuers that they may well be thought in regard of Gods election in Christ to be heirs of saluation and in that respect true Christians yet in respect of the constitution of your Church he sayth they can not be iudged true Christian. Now we deal against your church in regard of the constitution thereof not doubting but God hath many elect heyres of salâ—ation among you which we leaue vnto him that knowes them Your argument then from Mr Iohnsons confession is faultie and agreeth not with the rules of right reasoning for whereas he limiteth his iudgment of them shewing in what respect it is plainelie excepteth their church-constitution you bear your reader in hand as if he granted it without lâ—mitation and that too according to the Scriptures in your first proposition which evidently do concern the churches constitution You may much abuse any mans words if what he speaketh respectively you will take and allege as spoken absolâ—telie So your proofe fayleth you In the end you referr vs to the confirmation of your 5 Argument following to the Answer whâ—reof I also refer the reader Now though I haue answered first to the assumption or second part of your argument on proof whereof you doe insist yet the first part also shal be better examined ere I let it passe Those churches you say whose true members are onely espowsed to Christ. are true visible churches By true members I conceiue you doe meane not as the truth is all baptised and so reteyned in your church but some few choise persons or forward professors among whom there is an imaginary brotherhood and separation from the other profane in your parishes though invery deed they stand all one bodie If thus you intend as the proof of your assumption plainelie intimateth you do then offer you violence to the similitud of mariage or espowsall which al meÌ„ know is not with some few members of a womans body as her fingers or hands c but with the whole woman who giueth her selfe by covenant vnto her spowse or husband And as in civill mariage so it is in spirituall for Israel of old when the Lord became a husband vnto them did not some of them but all the multitude generally make covenant with their God the scriptures also which you alleg Eph 5.2 Cor 11 speak of the whole body of the church not of a few select members of the same For though it be true of every visible church that some onely are elect howsoeuer all be called yet the discerning of this belongeth to God alone and not to vs who esteem of persons according to their outward covenant profession and walking Your reason then seemes to be like this That womans â—hose true members as namely her eye and eare and some of her fingers are espowsed onâ—ly to such a man She is his true and lawfull wife But the true members of N howsoeuer her whole bodie in generall is coupled with an adulterer and the most of her members ar affected and wholly giuen ouer to that adulterer and her pretended husband they hate never made couenaÌ„t with ar espowsed only to such a man Threfore c. If this reason be not absurd let him that readeth iudge and if such absurdity be not implyed in your argument shew if you can in your next writing for if you striue to avoyd this you will fall into another evill as shall then be manifested The 3. argument IN what churches soever is such an ordinance of God in publick vse and forâ— by which there is ordinarily made an vndoubted resurrection or quickning froÌ„ the death of sinne vnto the life of grace and a new birth they are true visible churches of Christ. Iam 1 18 1 Pet 1 23. But in the best of our assemblies is such an ordinance of God c. Therefâ—â—e c. The assumption is manifest because by that ordinance of preaching which is in publick vse and force there is ordinarily made an vndoubted new birth seing there doe ordinarily appear in many the vndoubted fruites and testimonies of Gods spirit after the publick and ordinary preaching of the word in our best assemblies Answer THE first part of this your argument seemeth to imply an error as that a church is first gathered constituted of an vnregenerate profane and worldly people over which are set Pastors and Teachers who by preaching the Gospel doe beget them or some of them vnto thâ— faith and quicken them from the death of sinn c which quickning or new birth is a proof that they are a true visible church This course I finde to be contrary vnto the scriptures which I would thus manifest When the Lord Iesus would shew mercy to the world and call his elect out of the same he sent Apostles Prophets and Evangelists to preach his saluation to all peoples The people to whom they preached werâ— not for the most part churches of God but assemblies of heathens and idolaters as for example the men of Lystra of Corinth of Athens where Paul preached in Mars street and other like places By meaneâ— of this manner preaching many â—eople were regenerate or beâ—ne a new quickned from the death of sâ—â—â—e aâ—d tuâ—â—ed from idols to the liuing God And being thus begotten vnto God they were separated from others that belâ—eued not and ioyned togither into a holy comâ—union not hauing other officers over them for a while till men were fitted for such a worke Therefore oft times the Apostles departed to other places and left the Evangelâ—sts to redresse things that remayned and to ordein them Elders in every citie as the Apostles
appoynted them These Elders called generally Bishops or Ouerseers had charge of their particular flocks and might not goe from them as did the Apostles but attend and feed them These now could not properly be sayd to beget their peoâ—le to the faith as the Apostle noteth to the Corinthians but to feed and instruct them and therefore are not called Fathers but Feeders or Pasters and Pedagogues Child-leaders or Instructeurs From which I gather that people must regenerate and borne again before they may be admitted into any particular church or haue officers ouer them and that ordinary ministers which feed their flocks cannot be sayd to beget them as is the common vawnt of you Ministers in England which me thinks even reason it selfe might shew you For you that are now over your parishes how found you your people at first a church or no church If you say a church then you begat them not but entred vpon other mens labours that were before you if you say they were not a church then you condemn the state of your parishes as they were planted before you were their Ministers Now then to come to your â—roposition In whatsâ—ever churches that is assemblies for so I vnderstand you to vse the werd generallie as the Scripture sometime vseth Ecclesia is such an ordinance of God in publick vse and force by which there is ordinarily made an vndoubted new birth c. they are true visible churches of Christ This I denie for in the assemblies of the heathens in the Apostles daies as before is proued there was such an ordinance of God sometimes in publick vse and force as by it ordinarilie there was made an vndoubted new birth as th' fruit of th' Apostles preaching sheweth· yet were not those assemblies of heathens true visible churches of Christ. but such onelie as were converted to God and separated from the rest that beleeved not and joyned in a holy communion togither were true visible churches Whereas you assume that in the best of your assemblies is such an ordinancâ— of God c this also I denie for your ministers are not Gods ordinance he hath not called or sent them they execute no lawfull office in your assemblies But your assumption you say is manifest because by that ordinance â—f preaching which is in publick vse and force there is ordinarily made an vndoubted new birth I answer first in verie many of your assemblies there is no such ordinance of preaching in publick use as you here bâ—ast of but bare reading onely yet those assemblies are by the Constitutions of your church to be reputed as true visible churches as the other SecoÌ„dly in those other other where preaching is I deny that there is ordinarily madâ— an vndoubed new birth Your proof is because thâ—re do ordinarily appear in many the undoubted fruites and testimonis of Gods spirit c. I answer first if this be so yet what will these many help the moâ—t and greatest â—umber in whom such fruits appear not When many of the hethens beleeued the Apostles word did their beleef bring the other that beleeued not into the church did not the Apostles separate the beleeuers from the rest and teach them to come from among them Yet you for the faith of some will vnite all the assemblie vnto Christ and his church contrary to the Apostles practise and to all the scriptures Secondly I deny that there doth ordinarily appear in many such vndoubted fruits of Gods spirit after your ordinary preaching as for which we may esteem them true visible churches Some fruites I knâ—w there doe appear so doe there among the Papists yea they take occasion for such things to reproch you that there follow not so many good works after your preaching as after their doctrine but among neyther of you are those fruits seen whâ—ch by the testimonie of scriptures will proue you true visible churches So we haue here but your bare affirmation to rest vpon and though I might thus end with as bare a deniall tâ—l you bring further proof yet for to help the reader I wil shew that ordinarily there appeareth not a new birth after your preaching Because of your publick idolatrous estate whereâ—n you stand subiect to Antichristian Prelatâ—s and canons whiles you haue your publick worship after the Romish idolatrous manner and are stil comming led in one bodie with the profane and serâ—ents seed with many other evils among you which plainly shew you want the new birth and are stil in your old mothers womb This the scriptures which you allege in your proposition will confirme for the Apostles shew Iam 1 18 1 Pet 1 23. that Christs church is a people begotten of God with the word of truth that is the Gospell but your church was first begotten gathered constituted ordered and is still continued by the Magistrates word and authority which if it did not inforce the people the estate wherein you now stand would soon be changed your church dissolved and eyther be better or Worse And where you learned so to inforce fâ—â—th and constrein men to be members of your church I can not tel vnlesse you follow Mahomets doctrine who taught that men should be compelled to the faith by warr and sword Againe the Apostle addeth this for a testimony and end of our new birth that we should be as the first fruitâ— of Gods creatures This men are not till they be as was Israel hallowed to the Lord Ier 2 3 which was by separation from the world Levit 20.26 and a willing covenant with the Lord Exod. 19.5 6.8 Dâ—ut 26 17 18 19 And that the like must be of vs Christians an other scrâ—pture confirmeth saying These are they wâ—iâ—h are not defilâ—d with women for thâ—y are virgins this implyeth a seâ—arâ—tâ—on from the world â—hâ—sâ— fâ—llow the Lamb whithâ—rsoeuer he goeth this argueth a couenant and communion with Chriâ—t and in the next words both poynts are repeted these are 1 bought from men being the first fruits 2 â—nto Gâ—d and to the Lamb after this followeth the fruit and in their mouth 〈◊〉 found no guile for they are without spot before the throne of God Whereas therefore you haue stood so long against vs for separation and would mainteyn a meer confusion of all sorts of people in a Câ—â—rch vpon an imaginary separation made in the clowdes of your own fansies whiles outwardly and indeed you are one body with the wicked you are vndoubtedly â—ot yet borne a new your Church hath not strength to bring forth your ministers are vnskilfull midwiues and the saying of the Prophet coÌ„cerning the people of Ephraim is verified also vâ—oÌ„ your people be is an vnwise son els would be not stand still such a time even in the breaking forth of the childâ—en Hos 13 13. The 4. Argument IN what churches soeuer all things needfull to saluation by publick authoryâ—y and gâ—nâ—rall approbation are ordinarily and
force If your people were truelâ—e regenerate they would not sinne mâ—stike me not I know the remainders of sinne dwell in the best men and draw them to that they neyther would not ought but as thâ— Apostle sayth He that is borne of God sinneth not And seing so many and great sinns reign in your best assemblies how can you say you are regenerate for I haue before manifested that ordinarilie people are kept and continued among you in an vnholy communion with the wicked and irreligious and nourished with sâ—perstition and idolatrâ— these and the like things are no tokens of true regeneration Mr Iohnsons confession is before treated of and will not import that which you would infer The causes and meanes ordeyned by God to beget faith are not by Esa 55 11 Râ—m 10.17 proued to be among you For there is spoken of the word going out of the Lords mouth but your minâ—sters are not the Lords mouth because they haâ—e not from him their calling sending and authoritie to preach bâ—t haue it from his enemie Antichrist and as the Apostle saith how shal thâ—y preach except they be sent Neither are they as the Lords mouth because they separate not the precious from the vile Ier. 15 19. Neyther are the infallible effects of faith c. proued by Gâ—l 5 6 â—2 to be in the true members of yâ—ur best assemblies For seing faith is there sayd to work by loue and there is no loue of Christ vnlesse men keep his commandements and his commandâ—ments are not kept in your idolatrouâ— assemblies it cannot be affirmed that you loue the Lord if so you contineâ— continew in sinne or that you haue true faith But rather seing the contrary works of the flesh which the Apostle there mentioneth adultery fornication c idolatrie witchcraft hatred c. contentions seditions heresies c. are found in the true members of your church for all among you are baptised and all baptised are true members you are more rightly to be reputed vnregenerate and vnsanctâ—fied in that your sinnfull and confused estate Neyther haue you Christs power in your best assemblies to cast out the wicked from among you but they are fostered fâ—d and blessed with your word prayers sacraments c. and such as absteyn from your idolatrie and from communion with the wicked you hate reproach excommunicate and persecute that your church is indeed a mother to the profane But a stepmother to the faithfull The 6 argument THose Churches for whome the Churches of God reiâ—yce are true Churcheâ— 2. Thes. 1.4 But our best assemblies are such for whome the churches of God reioyce Ergo. The reason of the proposition is because the churches of God haue the spirit of discerning a true church and ministery from a false as Ioh 10.27 5. Maâ— 24 24 1 Cor. 14 32. and 10 15· 1 Ioh. 4 1· The assumption is true because all the churches of God reioyce in our best assemblies and haue giuen vs the right hand of fellowship and testimony of a truâ—â—hurch hauing ioyned our publick confession with their Harmony Answer THIS argument is one and the same with the third of your first Constlerations saue that it hath gotten the fashion of a syllogisme The in sâ—fficiencie of this reason I haue there shewed and thether doe referr the reader Further here I answer that you turne the testimony of the reformed churches to your best advantage yet neyther with equitie nor good successe For they joy not for your best assemblies more then for your worst but for your Church in generall and the confeâ—sion of the same They rejoyce for every Bishop Priest and Deacon and for every Parish that maketh such confession as Bishop Iewel in his Apologie hath set down Part of which Apologie they haue vnited with their Harmâ—nie And why bring you them as approuing your best assemblies onely Your Lords the Prelates may truely say you doe them wrong to apply vnto your selues the applause which other churches giue to their Apologie They wil tel you in your own words the churches of God haue the spirit of discerning a true church and Ministery from a false But the reformed â—hurches haue discerned the nationall church of England whereof the Archbâ—shop of Cant· is Pastorâ— to be a true church they haue discerned the Diâ—cesan Bishâ—ps in England as well as the Parish Priests to be true Ministers and reioyce as well for their Sees as for yoâ—r Parishes hauing joyned these all alike in their Harmony And what will you that suffâ—r sâ— many things for sepâ—rating in yâ—ur châ—rch as yoâ— sâ—yd answer to your right reverend Fathers against whome like vnnaturall children yoâ— hauâ— striven so long and would have them with their jâ—risdâ—ctâ—on â—ut out of your church thâ—t the Pâ—râ—sh priest or Deacon mâ—ght Lord it alone More particularly I answer yoâ—r first propostion is vnsound cannot be proâ—ed from the scripture you allege 2 Thâ—s 1.4 from which text yoâ— must conclude on this faâ—hâ—on Pâ—ul and Siluanus and Timotheuâ— reioyced of the Thesalonians in other churches of Gâ—d because of their pacience and faith in all persecutions c. Therefore the reformed churcheâ— reioycing for the church of England it must needs be a true church The conseqâ—ence is denied True churches may err in their judgment of an other church especialy if theâ— be not rightly informed of the statâ— thereof as the reformed churches are not by that your Apologie Moreover he that mindeth the things recorded of that church 1 Thes. 1 3 6 7 9 c. and the different estate to be seen in your church may soon perceiâ—e their is no lâ—ke cause of joy for you â—s for them that if there be a lâ—ke effeâ—t it is in error The reason of the proposition is no better confirmed by the scriptures you allege For when Chrâ—â—t sayth Iohn 10 27 5. Mâ— sheep hâ—ar my voyce and they will not follow a stranger doeth he send his sheep to other flocks to try their shepheards by or if I see my shepheard to be a thâ—ef a hireling a wolf mâ—st I commit my sowl vnto hâ—m because other shepherds wâ—ll giue him the right hand oâ— fellowship In the other scriptures say nâ—t the Apostles to the particular churches and persons iudge ye what I saâ— try ye thâ— spâ—rit and beleeue not euery spirit But you would not haue our selues to iudâ—e or try but to send over sea and hear what other churches iudge if they apâ—roue we must not disalow You may as wel bid vs. put out our own eyes that other men may lead vs and as soon will we follâ—w you in that as in this your popish counsell We have learned to liue by our own faith and know that every man shall beare hâ—s own bâ—rden and answer for himself to God But you will tell vs if we can iudge and discerne the true church others can doe it also and better I
Eph 4.11.12 14.15 16. 1 Cor. 12 27 28. See also Ioh 10.1 4.5 Act 20 28. Ioh. 21 15 16. But all the ministers of the church of England haue and execute the ministery of a fals church for so by the former argumeÌ„ts that church is proued Therefore they are not the true ministers of Christ and consequently not to be heard or obeyed as shepheards of our soules For the further descrying of the false ministery of this church I referr the good reader to a treatise lately published intituled Reasons and Arguments prouing that it is not lawfull to hear the Ministerie of Engl. And to an other heretofore published called A treatise of the Ministerie of the Church of England I will put enimitie between thee ô Serpent and the woman and between thy seed and her seed He shall crush thy head and thou shalt crush his heel Gen. 3.15 Forasmuch as the children are partakers of flesh and blood he also Christ himselfe likewâ—ise took part of the same that through death he might abolish him that had the power of death that is the Diuil and that he might deliuer them all which foâ— fear of death all their life time were subiect to bondage Heb. 2.14 15. And there was warr in heauen Michael and his Angels warred against the Dragon the Dragon also warred his Angels but preuailed not neither was their place found any more in heauen And cast was the great Dragon that old Serpent called Diuill and Satan that deceaueth the whole world cast was he into the earth and his Angels were cast with him Reu 12.7.8 9. A BRIEF ANSWER TO Mr BERNARDS BOOK INTIâ—VLED The Separatiâ—ts Scâ—isme WHen the former treatise was almost finished among other aduersaries Mr Bernard commeth forth to fight against the truth which but a while since he would needs seem to fauour but things not succeeding to his exspeâ—tation he hath changed his loue into hatred And in the bitternes of his zele he haâ—h sent out a treatise conteyning Disswasions from the practise of the Gospel which he pleaseth to call The separatists schisme or Brownisme Though in his book ther be little weight of reason or truth to be seen nor any thing which may grealy trouble a discreet reader who is but meanely acquainted without cause yet both for the stopping of the mans mouth if it may be who maketh huy and crie after some of vs as in his Prooeme to the reader he proclaymeth and for help of the simple who may be offended at the truth not discerning his frawd I thought it needful to obserue and answer briefly the principall things by him obiected many of which are before in this treatise and in other books more largely refuted and all of â—hem may if need require hereafter by some other be particularly refelled Herein now the Lord giue me wisdom to discouer this adversaries falsehood and thee good reader vnderstanding to discerne it Of his PROBABILITIES THE first meanes whereby Mr BERNARD would disswade from the truth which he calleth Brownisme are Probabilities or likâ—lihoods that the way is not good and they are in number as himselfe hath cast them seuen 1. The Novelty of it 2. The agreement thereof with ancient schismatiks 3. The ill meanes by which it is mayteyned namely by abuse of scripture deceauable reasonning 4. The want of approbation of the reformed Churches 5. The condeâ—nation thereof by all their Diuines vidz of the church of England 6. Gods iudgment against it 7. The â—ll successâ— it hath had Such lâ—kelihoods as these the Papists heretofore with as much colour and truth haue alleged against the church of England heathens and enemies haue in former ages obiected the lâ—ke things to the church of Christ and Mr Ber. speaketh but that which hath been spoken before him fulfillâ—ng the measâ—re of his forefathers But to the particulars The Novâ—lty he maketh to be in differing from all the best reformed churches in Christendome But if a Papist had to deal with him he would bring those reformed churches also within the câ—mpasse of Novelâ—y and then Mr Bern. would flee as his brethren before him haue done to the scriptures for antiquity as he would answer a Papist so wâ—ll I answer him let the scriptures speak for the differences between other churches and vs. But here Mr Bern. is mute and medleth not with thâ—s controversie he thought belike the very name of Noveltie and of the reformed churches would fray the simple If it be Nouelty to differ from the reformed churches then may he blame his own church â—f Engl. more then vs seing it differeth from those churches in mâ—e and weightier poynts then we doe yea it hateth persecuteth sileÌ„ceth excommunicateth those ministers people that stand vp plead for such things as the reformed churches haue and practise Agayn these churches haue reiected and writen against many of the Antichrâ—stian enormities that are now in England So if it be likely we are not in the truth because we dâ—ffer from the churches in few things it is more likely Mr Bern. and his brethren are not in the truth because they differ from them in many Wherefore let him first pull the beam out of his own eye Agayn where he standeth vpon the hard words which some of vs haue vttered of the Presbytery c. if he had not an evill and partial eye he mought haue seen many moe hard reproachful words vsed by his right reverend Fathers and fellow priests against the Presbytery and discipline which the reformed churches haue and the reforming ministers of Engl. would haue That still his weapon entreth into his own bowels His 2 likelihood he maketh to be our agreement with ancient schismatiks yet any poynts wherein we agree with them in evill he nameth not much leâ—â—e proueth but referreth us to Mr Giffords paynes herein who had long since his answer by Mr Greenwood to every particular of that his pretended consimillitude between the Donatists and vs to which answer I râ—ferr the reader Agayn this obiection is such as the Papists make against the church of England for so N. D. compareth Protesâ—â—nts with Donatists and let vs see what answer the Priests of England can make for themselues that will not as well if not better clear vs And to come a little neare to this oâ—r aduersary we could pâ—t Mr Ber. in mind of his own wayes wherein he might see himselfe more like a schismatik then any of vs for we openly professe our departure frâ—m the châ—rch of England as from a false church so proued by evident groâ—nds out of Gâ—ds word whereas Mr Bernard holding it to be a true châ—rch abâ—ding in it yet he and a hundred with him made not long since a pretended coâ—enant togâ—ther whereby they separated from the vnpreaching ministers and all that hate to be reformed Yet are those reaâ—ing priests of as â—ood authority by the Lawes and Canons of that Church as
reâ—roched the Protestants as labouring to bring all things vnder the rule of the rash vnconstant people and vnlearned multitude and to make the church democraticall and popular because every one of the people by his priuate spirit is supreme iudge and head in matters of religion Our different judgement and practise from the church of Engl. wher all â—y men as they call them are forbidden all speaking or expounding of the word in the publik assemblies and where a Bishop Chancellor or Commissary hath power to excommunicate by a Latin writ c. Our difference also and dislike of the Presbyteries practise whereby people are excluded and depriued of a great part of their Christian liberty and benefit thereby is in other books largely treated of with scriptures reasons many which M Bern. neyther orderly handleth nor soundly confuteth as the wise reader may see but ignorantly and confusedly shuffleth them ouer running into by matters and vniust calumniations I will end therefore with the words of one of his fellow ministers who touching this poynt of Church gouernment writeth much more soundly then by Mr. Bern. in his blindenes hath done Mr Iacob I mean which sayth It is childish and without all wit to cry out aganst vs â—us our adueâ—saries doe Popularity Anarchie c. for our so wel grounded and so approued an assertion That the sinne of one man publâ—ckly and obstinately stood in bâ—ing not reformed nor the offender cast out â—oth sâ— pâ—llute the whole congregation that none may commuâ—â—cate with hâ— same in any of the holy â—hings of God though it be a church râ—ghtly conâ—â—ituted till the party be excommunâ—cated I deney agayn this to be eyther our iudgement or practise Mr. Bern. sayth the formâ—r position is the ground of this and so it seemeth he câ—lumniating vs in the forâ—er thouâ—ht he might doe likeweise in this We professe and haue long since publâ—shed that none is to separate for fâ—â—lts corruâ—tioÌ„s which may so long as the Church coÌ„sistâ—th of mâ—rtall men will fall out and arisâ— among them but by due order to sâ—â—k râ—dresse thâ—reof Now that euery Chrâ—stian not onely may bâ— tought to rebuke his neighbour for sinne we haâ—e playn lawes both â—n the old Testament and the new Leuit. 19.17 Luk. 17.3 That sinners not repenting are after the second admonition to be signified vnto the church is also Christs ordinance Mat. 18 15.17 But what â—f â—he church will not cast him out I answer Synns are eyther conâ—rouertible or manifest If controuertible and dâ—ubtfâ—ll men ought to bear one with anothers different judgement if they doe not but any for this make a breach or separation they syn But if the sinne be manifest as for example a man is conuict of adultery blasphemy theft or the like and the church will not rebuke him nor cast him out but suffer him obstinate and impenitent in his wickednes and plead for him agaâ—nst such us call vpon them for iudgemâ—nt then are all such abettors of the wicked sinners themselues and that in a high degree as th' Apostle noteth Rom. 1 31 the whole lump is leuened 1 Cor. 5 1 6. c. and now not that one mans sinne but the sinne of them all is that which polluteth them for they fauour and iustify a wicked man more then God therefore woe is vnto them and Solomon sayth He that sayth to the wicked thou art righteous him shall the people curse and the multitude shall abhorr him Prou 24 24 If M Bern think the sinne is the lesse because a church maynteyns it he is much deceiued evill the more common it is the worse â—t is because God is more dishonoured and mens sowles more endangered If he think men should regard and reuerence the church in this case the law teacheth every man not to follow the many or the mighty to doe euill nor agree in a controuersie to decline after many and ouerthrow the right The â—round of all this is playn in Gods law if any one of the people sinned against any of the commandements of the Lord and one shewed him his sinne which he had committed he was to bring his sacrifice a testification of his repentance If a ruler sinned or the high priest himselfe they were to doe likewise If the whole Congregation sinned the like law was for them God respected no persons but if they that sinned were greater or moe in number they were so farr from being sauoured as they had the greater sacrifice inioyned them a priuate man offred a shee-goat a ruler a hee-goat the high Priest and the Congregation a yong bâ—llock These lawes were giuen to all sorts of persons for all manner sinns‘ and the law was agayn repeated and stablished from that day forward throughout their generations Num. 15.22.23 c. But if any man despised this law and sinned with a high hand the same blasphemed the Lord and was to be cut off from among his peoâ—le Num. 15.30.31 Now further that the whol congregation taking Part with wicked men in syn after due admonition are all defiled and subiect to like iudgement we haue a playn example in the whole Tribe of Beniamin where in Gibeâ—h one of their towns filthines was committed the Tribe was called vpon to deliuer thâ—se wicked men to death that evill might be put away from Israel â—â—t when they would not deliuer them all the other tribes warred against that trâ—be and almost rooted out every man of the same Likeweise the trâ—bes of Israel in an other case sayd to some of their brethren seeing ye rebel to day against the Lord euen tomorrow he wil be wroth with all the Congregation of Israel Did not Achan sinne c. and wrath fell on all the congregation of Israel and this man alone perished not in his wickednes What Mr Bern. seeth or how he readeth the scriptures I cannot tel but if he knew the contagion of sinne or guilt of the same he would neuer haue writien as he hath done Now where he pleadeth that men should not for the offender refreyn the holy things of God abhâ—rr the sacrifices c. We grant it The holy things are alwayes to be reuerenced Gods house and sacrifices frequented when we may without sinne But we deny such an assembly to be Gods church as with a high hand sinneth and blasphemeth the Lord. The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination And it cannot be said that any holy thing is lawfully administred in such a society where all agree together to mayntein open iniquity and doe despise the word of the Lord calling them to repentance If they doe not thus we hold it not lawfull to separate from them nor in any weise at any time till all holy and orderly meanes be vsed for their reclayming That euery of their assemblies are false churches This we hold indeed being
vnlesse perhaps he hath blessed some of their youthes with the Sacrament of Confirmation how many of their soules he hath conuerted yea let them say whether euer he saw their faceâ— As for the Bishops Deputies the parisâ—h priests many of them are dumb by nature and cannot preach many are made dumb by their spirituall Lords power and silenced for disobedâ—ence so preaching wexeth geazon and people perish for want of Instruction In the mean tyme this painful Clergie feedeth the Lay weekly with their mattings Euensong and Homilies and sometimes in a year with sermon and reading the Bishops canons They discipline their notorious sinners with reading curses and Comminations out of the pulpit till the Lent penance which is much to be wished be restored agayn they solemnize the holy dayes of Angels and of Saincts they giue ech man the sacrament at Easter deuoutly vpon his knees they baptise with water and a signe of the crosse in the aâ—er they wed their parishioners with a ring teach the man to worship his wife in the name of the Father and of the Son of the holy Ghost they church the women after childbirth they visiâ— the sick and absolue him from all his sinns and howsel him with a Communion and last of all they bury the dead in sure and certayn hope of resurrection to eternall life And this is yenough for priests to doe in the country parishes but in the Cathedrall churches where Bishops Deanes and other great Doctors do reside there the Queristeâ—s and Organ-pipes make sweeter melody Mr. Bern. confesseth that the Lord onely prescribes the duties to be done in euery distinct â—ffice now he that knowes not these dutiess to belong to Christs ministers or these works to be a faythfull performance of ministeriall office let him read Mr Bernards book for there he hath quoted many scriptures the end of all which is to raise an euident proof of the truth of their ministery and administration as if one should cite the second commandement for to vphold idolatrie The effects of their administration in conuerting sowles is but a vayne boast as their idolatrous estate with the lamentable ignorance and profanenes of the people every where sheweth The reasons brought by others for Mr Bern bringeth none to perswade such effects are before in this treatise answered It maketh also against the estate of this church and ministery for if these preachers haue conuerted and wrought faith in some of their hearers then it followeth that before that conuersion they were infidels yet were they of the church and had this ministery set ouer them as all men know Which how it can stand with the râ—les of Gods word hath neuer yet bene shewed The example which Mr Bern. allegeth of th' Apostle 1 Cor 9.1.2 helpeth him nothing For Apostles were sent to conuert heathens but Pastors are set for to feed conuerted Christians And the Priests of England challenge to be Pastors I ween and not Apostles Agayn the work and seal of Pauls Apostleship was seen in Corinth by separating the beleeuers from infidels and gâ—therâ—ng the Saints onely into the communion of the church vnder the officers giâ—en of Christ but in England the vnbâ—leeuers and wicked were receiued and are reteyned in the church So that Mr. Bern. is but a â—alse Apostle as his work shewes if he be any at all But in the end he tels vs we forget to iustifie the lawfulnes of our own ministers who are made â—iâ—istâ—rs â—y sâ—ch as are no ministers contrary to the constant practise of the church of God from the dayes of Adam hitherto c. In which dispute Mr. Bern. teacheth playn apostasie from the Gospell unto Poperie from whâ—ch he deriueth the minâ—stery of his church of Engl. For seing all the examples that he allegeth from scriptures are of Diuine persons and approued ministers of the true church and comming to his church of England he fetcheth her ministery out of the Popish church and from the Prelates thereof it cannot be if his last words agree with his first but the poâ—ish church is a true church and their prelates true ministers Otherweise hâ—s reasoning is absurd to say God ordeyned Adam Moses odeyned Aaron Christ ordeyned the Apostles the Apostles ordeyned orther mâ—nisters in churches therefore Antichrist of Rome his synagoâ—ue of Satan hâ—s eldest sonâ—es the Prelates must or may ordeyn miniâ—ters in the church of Christ. If this be a good consequence let al men iudge if â—â—â—s it be not then Mr. Bern. holdeth the popish church and the â—opish ministers true ministers and so himselfe and his church of England must needs be schismatiks for leauing that church of Rome When he hath cleared himselfe of this his absurd doctrine then if he cannot see that the church of Christ hath power to ordeyn her own ministers it shal be shewed hâ—m by the scriptures Tâ—ll then what should we do folowing of a wauering reed whome we cannot tell by his writing whether he be Papist or Protestant And that the reader may see into what an intricate Labyrâ—nth the ministers of England haue brought themselues about this matter of their ministery by writing as they haue doâ— both of the Papists and of us I will set down a Papist argument against them from which how handsomely they can defend themselues I would fayn see There came out in anno 1602 a book called A detection of diuers notable vntruthes c. wherein the author hauing to deal wit Mr Sâ—â—cliff who as he sayth had reasoned thus The true church is a societie of faithfull people vnder lawfull Pastors c But the Church of Rome hath long wanted true Pastors and Bishops for the Romish Bishops haue no authority â—r missioÌ„ but froÌ„ the Pope to whome also they swear feally but he hath no authority to send them or ordeyn them â—eing himselfe no Bishop c. This argumeÌ„t of Mr Sutcliffs the Papist retorteth vâ—oÌ„ theÌ„ thus The true church of Christ hath alwayes true Pastors and Bishops but the English Congregation wanteth true Priests and Bishops Therefore the English congreagation 〈◊〉 not the true church of Christ. The fiâ—st proposition sayth the Papist he must not deny being of his own making c. The 2 proposition is apparant according to Mr Sutcliffs diuinity For most certaine it is that their first Bishops receiued their orders and consecration from our catholik Bishops as his brother Bel confesseth Suruey pag. 201. And the thing it selfe speaketh seing when Lâ—ther begun there was not any protestant Bishop or Priest c. And if Mr Sutâ—liffe dare deny that their Bishops were câ—nsâ—cratedlâ— ours then let him name who they were that did lay hands vpon Mr Parker the first of Cant. that deriued not their mission authority and consecration from the Bishop of Rome Certayn it is thâ—t â—yther none at all can be named or els none bâ—sides therefore if our Bishops be
no Bishops then doth it follow most euidently that all the English Bishops be no Bishops at al as hauing no other coÌ„secratioÌ„ then from them And if our English Prelates be no true Bishops then surely nâ—yther be they Priâ—sts or Minisâ—ers or Deacons that be ordeyned by them and so consequently the congregation of Eâ—gâ— by Mr Sutcliffs argumeÌ„t not thâ— tru church of Christ. This is the Catholiâ—s argument and plea which how Mr Bern. or his brethren will wel answer and stand also to that which they haue written against vs I cannot tel Finally against that often boasting of the work and effect of the ministery of Engl I will oppose a testimony of one of their chief miâ—isters yet our professed aduersary that it cannot be thought he was partial for vs at all Mr Gifford is the man that thus hath written Somâ— dâ—e wonder how it should come to passe that among vs there should be so many which being borne since the gospell was restored in this land are so zealously addicted unto Popery which thâ—y neuer did know and so utter enemies to the Gospel which they hear But if they weigh the causes of this deadly mischeef they will cease wondring at that and rather wonder that there be no more For how can it bâ— so long as there be so many abuses in the ministery but that many shall stumble and loath the Gospell For from thence as it is manifest the cheife cause of this euill doth spring True it is that our ministery doth fight against them but yet in such sort that it doth greatly increase them Seeming and pretending to tread vpon those cockatrise eggs for to breake them and so â—o destroy utterly thâ— viperous generation when as indeed they sit vpon them and so hatch the broâ—ds of this euill kinde and bring them forth in great plenty For behold a number cry out against popery and proclaym vtter defiance in speach but their doings are such that for euery one which they conuert to the gâ—spel they cause an hundred to reuolt to be hardned in their errors or to fall into flat Atheisme While many coÌ„trary to the professioÌ„ wâ—ich they made when they entred setting aside the care of sowles not esteeming nor regarding what become of them studie most how to clime high and to satisfy their ambitious desire of honour taking togither liuings couetously and greedily not caring who feed the flock so they may â—â—me by the fleese Moreouer the door hath been opened also â—o let into the church 〈…〉 and swarme of such as are more like the priests of Ieroboam then ministerâ— of the gospell not onely unlearned idols which haue mouthes and speake nâ—t which being weary of their occupations and couet to liue easily and to that end are entred but also riotous dicers gamesters quaffers quarrellers adulterers and such like If the matter were secret I should doe amisse to make it manifest but when it is open in the sight and view of all men who can complayn iustlie when it is spoken of Let this record of Mr Gâ—ffords for the effect of their administration and their good quallities besides togither with Mr Bernards former doctrine for their first calling and ordination by the popish prelates shew whether it be not like that this ministery will ere long make accord with the mother church of Rome that hatched it and for whom it againe hatcheth cockatrices eggs The tenth error that we should hold is that their worship in Engl. is a false worship To proue this to be an error Mr Bern. bringeth these reasons 1. That they worship no false God I answer Neyther did Ieroboam the son of Nebaâ— who made Israel to syn yet vsed he a false worship 1 King 12. 2. That they worship the true God with no false worship for they haue the true word preached the true sacraments and their prayers are such as maâ— be warranted by the word c. I answer this is but taking for granted that which he should proue for he knowes well that we deney thâ—se things and by many reasons in sundry bookes none of which Mr Bern. answereth haue disproued their preaching ministring of Sacraments booke prayer c. Seing he will answer nothing before written by vs let him in his next booke prooue that the Apocrypha scriptures and homily bookes which they read in Gods worship are his true word that the sacraments which the vnpreaching priests minister to their profane parishioners by their popish leitourgie are true sacraments let him approue by Gods word the obseruation of all their holy dayes fasting dayes with their prescript peculiar seruice briefly let him shew warrant for his seruice book the making and vse thereof with all the popish contents therein These are strange incense new forgeries of their own neuer appoynted by Christ or his Apostles wherefore we doubt not to affirme their worship to be false euen an humane inuention With these things Mr Bern. medleâ—h not but bringeth proof for other matters which we neuer denyed and referreth vs to an after treatise which now next followeth to be answered Yet ere he leaueth us he will utter all his hart and from his inner store powreth out against vs 12. errors moe whâ—ch he will not spend time he saith in conâ—utâ—tion of they are so absurd and false being also as he thinketh conâ—ured by the former Though nothing need be answered where no shew of proof is made yet to satisfy the reader and shew him the vanity of this aduersary I will briefly touch them all and they be these 1 That their congregations as they stand are all and euery of them vncapable before God to chuse them ministers though they desire the meanes of saluation Al such as desire the means of saluation in what congregations soeuer haue ower and liberty from God to separate from all euill and ioyne togither in good and so to enioy Gods blessings in his ministery or any other part of the Gosâ—el But we hold that no false church hath power from God to chuse ministers which he hath ordeyned onely for true churches 1 Cor. 12.28 Eâ—h 4 12 Râ—m 12.4 5 c. we wonder with what face any Christian can say otherweise If Mr Bern. make the error to be in holding them false churches then is it the same with the 8. error before answered and is here bâ—t idly of him repeated 2. That God in their best assembliâ—s is worshipped after a false manner An other idle repetition of that which before he made our Tenth error which there was answered 3. That baptisme is not administred into the fayth of Christ simply but into the fayth of Bishops and Church of Engl. This I think is Mr Bernards vncharitable collection not our Position Though we hold baptisme among them to be administred neyther by a true minister nor after a lawfull manner but according to their own prescript Leitourgie and to the seed of
God who took our nature of the Virgin Mary is our onely and alsufficient Sauiour For proof of this they first allege that thâ—y receiue this truth are the people of God and in the state of saluation they that receiue it not cannot possibly be saued Mat. 16.18 Mark 16.16 1 Iâ—h 4.2 Col 2.7 But first none of these scriptures doe say that this one article which these ministers haue set downe in this forme of words is the onely fundamentall truth in religion Neyther doth any other scripture that I know of so speake for though Christ onely is the foundation of the Christian church and though as they secondly allege no other point of religion is necessary otherwise then as it tendeth necessarily to teach or confirme this one truth yet foloweth it not but other points also are fundamental truthes the denyall of which will abolish from Christ. Secondly they haue altered added to and omitted some of the words of these scriptures for their own aduantage For fearing that we would as indeed we mean to doe presse them with the profession of the Anabaptists Papists and other heretiks they thinke to preuent vs. And first against the Anabaptists which deny that Christ took our flesh these men haue added who took our nature of the Virgin Mary Then against the papists which hold merit of works they adioyne these words our onely and alsufficient Sauiour And this because the church of England mainteyneth the truth in these points against those fore sayd heretiks On the other hand to help themselues in their corrupt Antichristian walking and false constitution they omit and mention not th' Apostles words Col. 2. wher he sayth As ye haue receiued Christ Iesus the Lord so walke in him rooted and built in him and stablished in the faith as ye haue been taught c The discreet reader may soon espy their purpose in this cunning cariage For let the position be set downe in the scripture termes and we shall see how weake their plea will be The onely fundamentall truth in religion is this That Iesus is the Christ the sonne of the liuing God comen in the flesh in whom we must beleeue and h walke being rooted and build in him and stablished in the faith as we are taught in the new testament If now these ministers will insist vpon the three first scriptures onely and generall terms that are in them it is apparant that the Papists Anabaptists and many other miscreants doe hold and professe them absolutely absolutely But if they joyne with them Colos. 2. and compare the walking rooting building and stablishing in the faith taught by th' Apostles with the Popish church or with their own it wil be found that neyther of them hold the foâ—ndation Christ aright Themselues wâ—ll grant it of the Papâ—sts and other heretiks and for their own church it is before in this treatise proued So then to come agayn vnto their reason that they hold â—eâ—ch and mainteyn euery part of Gods holy truth which is fundamâ—ntall whereby they woulâ— conclâ—de themselues to be a true chrâ—ch the arâ—ument is deneyed Fâ—r first if â—t were granted that thâ—y hâ—ld â—aught and maiâ—teynâ—d every part of fundâ—â—ental truth which yet with them is but one article onely as we haue heard it wâ—ll not follow necessaryly that therefore they are a true châ—rch or that they truely professe the Christ an faith There wanâ— two things 1 obedience to the truth professed withoâ—t which men shal be damned whatsoeuer they professe 2 and a right profession of the true faith onely without errâ—urs adioyned that ouerthrow the same faith and obedience thereto For if a people profeâ—sing that onely fundamentall truth which these ministers speake of should withall professe Mahomet the prophet of the Turks or H. N. the God of the Familists or any other like abomination were this misceline profession of Christ and Belial togither a true and sound profeâ—sion I trow not So then these ministers must alter their plea thus that they hold teach mainteyn and obey every part of the fundamentall truth and nothing els with it that ouerthrowes the same If now they say this they doe I haue before in this treatise disproued it and here agayn will briefly disproue it thus They professe to beleeu the Communion of Saincts and that the visible church is a congregation of faithfull people Yet contrariweise they hold teach and mainteyne that their own church is a true church of Christ though it consists as wel of vnholy as holy infidels as beleeuers and innumerable wicked persons openly seen and known That this they hold mainteyn is proâ—ed by their continual clamors and reprochful writings against vs that call vpon them for a separation of light from darknesse It is proued by Dr Wâ—itgifts plea before mentioned that the children of Papists heretiks and other wicked persons are and ought to be baptised amoÌ„g theâ— It is further proued by the visible estate of their church knowne vnto all among them and testâ—fied by her dearest freinds fauourers Mâ— Gifford speaking to his brethren â—f the Communion of Saincts in Engl. sayth Yee would euen powr out your stinâ—ing and râ—tâ—en pâ—yson like blaspemous and venemous beasts ye would speake after this manner you that are so full of the spirit you that are Saincts and suâ—h like What are you Diâ—ils are ye of the flesh No doâ—ut ye are vntill God convert ye But we may se how diuiâ—ishly men ar become wicked when a man cannot make any appearance to be godly and holy but it is reproched as though it were a shamefull thing to be lead by the spirit c. These and the like records with the continuance continuance in this confused estate plainely proue an ouerthrow of that article of the true church which is the body of Christ and the body being disanulled Christ the head cannot soundly be reteyned Agayn they professe in Engl. that the puâ—e word of God is to be preached the sacraments duely administred c. also that in our doings that will of God is to be followed which we haue expresly decleared vnto vs in the word of God Yet withall they professe and practise in that church to read the Apocrypha â—criptures in which are found vntruthes and errors when many parts of the authentik scripture are neuer read among them they haue also written homilies in sted of preaching a written Leâ—tourgâ—e Letany collects c. in sted of praying which Leitoargie with all the popish contents therein must be approued and vsed by all the Priests and people and God serued by it euery day They haue also an antichristian clergie caâ—led and ordeyned according to their pontifical or book of ordination which â—n their beleef hath not any thing that of it selfe is sâ—perstitious and vngodly c. Finally all the Romish reliques yet in England to be seen in the
and dissolute quallity onely moued thereto in a lazy speculation layd wicked sacrilegious hands on the Lords ark taken his vndefiled testimonies in their defiled mouthes disgraced defaced and defamed the glory and Maiesty of diâ—ine rites and mysteries c. they run like hungry companions with an eye onely to the flesh pots so sel both themselues and their people for morsel of bread and messe of pottage to the Diuill He mentioneth also accursed and simonical patrons who haue sodered simoned the walls of their houses with the very blood of sowlâ—s some others among you speaking of that a miserable vulgus that woâ—fulâ— crew that racked regiment of dunsticall and vnlettered Sir Iohns which haue euen couered the land like the froggs of Aegypt leading many thow sands with themselues into the ditch and â—he same not still graced countenanced by the Prelatâ—s as being their creatures And others complayn that whol swarms of idle scandalous popish non-resident Ministers are tolerated euery where amongst you Your selfe Mr Crashawe in this very sermon tel in of little petty Babylons namely incurable sinns among you 1. That great sacrilege and church robbing as you call it committed by Impropriations in which case you affirme at this day almost halfe of the kingdome is wherby it comes to passe that an ignorant and vnpreaching ministery is set ouer a great part of your people which is the sourse and fountayn of all other euils in your church 2. The vngodly players enterludes so rise in the nations which you call a bellish deuise the Diuils own recreation to mock at holy things by him deliuered to the heathen from them to the Papists and from them to you And these you say bring religion and holy things vpon the stage And hypocrisie a child of hel must bear the names of two churches of God Nicholas S. Antlings Simon S. Maryâ—veries which churches by these miscreanâ—s are thus dishonoured you say not on the stage onely but euen in print To this you add â—heir continuall profannesse on their phrases and sometime Atheisme and blasphemy their continuall profanening of the Sabbath which generally in the country is their play day and oftentimes Gods diuine seruice hindred or cut shorter to make room and giue time for the Diuils seruice Many other like testimonies might I allege froÌ„ your own mouthes of exceeding impiety openly practised not by the people onely but by the Priests and Clergie and how doth your discipline heal these corruptions when by your own grant such caitiffs are graced and countenanced by the prelates when your law punisheth the conscionable ministers more then such as your selfe say of your petty Babilon of Impropriations this deep wound was once curable yenough c. but now alas how incurable it is he obserues but little that sees not And vnlesse the K. Maiesty vouchsafe to take the matter into his hands otherweise it is incurable Agayn you say of that horible abuse of the Sabbath c. that est is hath been complayned of and some haue endeuoured to heal it but it is 〈◊〉 of Babylon that will not be healed but rather it creps 〈◊〉 a 〈◊〉 though the whole state from the foot to the head and if you would yet haue more add herevnto Mr Iacobs testimony who hath so manfully stood for your church The right and true discipline ecclesiasticall sayth he in â—ch proper visible church is one mayn part of the ordinary meanes of saluation appoynted by God for euery sowl and this we in England vtterly want Now let the reader iudge whether there be not deadly corruption in your discipline which euen in a true church would soon eat out if it wer not healed the hart and life and being of a church according to your demaund But you proceed and ask vs. Q. What book of Canonicall scripture receiue we not what hold we for Canonicall that is not A. What book of Canonicall scripture receiued not the idolatrous Isâ—elites what held they for Canonicall that was not The like I ask for the Arians Anabaptists and sundry other heretikes of these times and shall these or any of them be therfore true churches Agayn in your own church there is read for holy scripture erroneous books and lying stories as Tobie Iudith and other Apocrypha Your Homilies citing thâ—Ì„ call them holy scripture and say the holy Ghost speaketh so in the scriptures the chiefest ministers of your church sometimes preach and take texts out of them If this be not to hold them canonicall I know not what you count canonicall Q. What sacrament that Christ ordeyned doe we want and what haue we more then Christ ordeyned A. What sacrament wanted Ieroboam the son of Nebat what had he more then God ordeyned Or the Anabaptists at this day Yet if one would stand with you he might by your Communion book proue Confirmation to be a sacrament but who ordeyned it I cannot tel vnlesse Pope Clement Agayn Mr Bradshaw a man of your own church and profession hath proued against you in print that your Crosse in baptisme ring in mariage surplice c. are sacraments in your church and not of diuine institution Q. What article of faith deny we or what hold we for an article of faith this is not A. Suppose that the Papists should ask you such a question what would you answer For all the Creeds that are in your communion book are they not with euery article neyther more nor lesse in the masse book and other popish pamphlets The Papists and you both confesse Christ in words both deny him in practise Q. What fundamentall heresie doth our doctrine maintayn A. The vnlawfull commixture of the children of God and children of the Diuell in one church and communion is a fundamentall heresie being stifly mainteyned All the scritures condemne it all wel reformed churches avoyd it nature it selfe teacheth to abhorr it yet in such profane communion your church abiderh and you wil not endure to bâ—â—r of a separation Q. What haue we in our church that ouerthrowes the being of a church A. A popish Clergie and Laitie Q. What is necessarily required to make a church that wee doe want A. You want both matter and forme of a true church namely a people called of God separated from the world and vnited with Christ and one with another according to the rules of his eternall Testament Q. I will end as I began wherein are we deadly and incurably wounded A. The sinns before mentioned are deadly wounds of Satan the onely cure is by repentance and faith in Christ Iesus â—ut as yet you be farr from cure for loe you make questions of your diseases and will not beleeue that you are sick Herevpon you refusâ— all salues and medicines and will neither haue physician nor chirurgian to meddle with your sores If any Leech come with a curing tongâ—e and words that be leaues of the tree of
more to separate from theâ— being maynteyned in a false vnleâ—se a false Church haue more privâ—lige tâ—en â— crâ—e And we consider that our separation is from the corrâ—â—ptioÌ„ of â— false Church 2. The scrâ—ptures also are playn that we must separate and forsake all false Churches as well as corruâ—tions in a true 2. Cor. 6 17. Come out from among them and separate your sâ—lues saith the Lord and touch no unclean thâ—ng and I will receiue you Reuelation 18 4 Goe out of her my people that ye receive not of her plagues Hosea 4.15 Come not ye vnto Gilgal neither give vp to Bethâ—ven and many the like How rightly then doe you allege scriptures as if they taught vs separation in a Church onely and not out of it also when it is false and Idolatroâ—s 3. Yoâ—r selues are a president to vs of like practise in separating not in but out of the Church of Rome as yoâ— haue dealt with the mother so doe we with the daughter because like mother like daughter according to the prouerb Eze. 16.44 4. You allege thâ— examples of all the prophâ—ts yet shew you not any that â—alâ—ed by your râ—le to seâ—arate in the Church and not out of it Wee are sure they called the people out of the Church of Israel when it was idolatrous aâ—d forbad them to come at their aâ—semblies Hos 2.2.3.4 4 15.17 Amos. 5.5 And how they coâ—ld themselues joyn with that Church from which they separated others is strange uÌ„to us especially coÌ„siâ—erinâ— that Israel in that estate is noted by the proâ—het Azariah to be withâ—ut the true God without Pâ—â—ist to teach â—nd wihtâ—ut law 1 Chro. 15.3 and may we thinke he separated not from that Church The Israelites thâ—n sacrâ—â—iced to Divils not to Gâ—â— Deut. 3â— 17. Chron. 11.15 and wil yoâ— sâ—y the prophets separated not from them 5. The like I Answer to the examples of Christ and his Apostles who as tâ—ey absteyned from corruptioâ—s in the Ieâ—ish Church so were they qâ—â—re sepâ—râ—teâ— from all false Churches as the Samâ—ritans and other like Mat 10 5. Ioh. 4.22 Act. 2.40 199 so theâ—r examples also doe approue our practise 6. Wâ—ere as you would haue noted that those Churches which Christ and hâ—s Apâ—stles coâ—â—unicated with were Antianosaicall as yours we â—ay ar◠〈◊〉 I 〈◊〉 tâ—e comparâ—son For â— the Iewish Church consistâ—d it all 〈…〉 the same Leuit 20 21.16 of a people separated not onely from heathens but also from fâ—lse professors heretiks and idolaters and were children of the prophets aâ—d couenant of God Iohn 4.9 Act 3.25 But your Church câ—nsâ—steth â—f an vnseparated people children of Idolatrous Priests strangers from the couenant of God 2. The Iewes then had their sacrifices seruices and solemne feasts according to Moses Law Mat 8.4 Mar 14.12 Luk 9. â—O 2.21 24 and Chrâ—st himselfe jâ—stâ—fâ—ed theâ—r worship Ioh. 4.22 but your seruice worship and fâ—stivalâ— are after Antichrists law translated out of his masse-booke 3. Theâ—r Priests were according to Moses instâ—tution of Aarons line Luk 1 5. with 1 Chro. 2.1 10 their Scribes and Pharisees sate in Moses chaâ—re Mat 23.2 your Priests after the Popes institution your prelates fit in Antichrist chair So they wer not so much against Moses as you are agaâ—nst Christ and that your Church reteyneth not the foundation Christ shal through his grace anone be proued The 2. Consideration 2. OVR Church hath the essentiall notes of a true church able to beget a true sauing faith to worke the fruites of the spirit to make a man a true and perfect Christian and last of all to saue him To the which also Christ hath tied his gracious promise and blessing to the end of the world Rom 10 13 17 Mat 28 19.20 Act 20.32 2 Tim. 3.15.16 1. Tim. 4.16 Iam. 1.21 Isa 55 11. Answer THese notes which you propound 1 are not the essentiall notes of a true Church a neyther if they were are they ordinariely found in your Church 1. These are not essentiall notes because 1 One man may haue al this you speake of and no one man is or can be a Church for that consisteth of a multitude or nuÌ„ber of persons it is an assembly or convocation joyntly together it is a body and euery one severally is but a member 1. Cor 12 20.27 That one man may haue all your esâ—entiall notes may appear in Pavls exaâ—ple who was able to bâ—get a true sauing faith to worke the fruites of the spirit and so the rest 1. Cor. 4 â—5 Gal. 3 2 5. 2. An Angel may haue all the notes you mention and no Angel is a Church For example the Angel Gabriel who was sent to giue Daniel knowledge and understanding and preached liuly of Christs death the benifits thereof Dan. 9.21.22 c 3. A wicked man may doe al that you speake of but no wicked man is a true church Iudas sent forth with the other Apostles to preach and work miracles might bring others to saluation by his doctrine though hâ—mselfe were a reâ—robate Mat. 10.5 6. c 4. A true Church is the spowse hous of Christ bringeth him forth a sâ—irituall seed But as God gaue the blessing of multiâ—lying childreÌ„ onely to lawfull maried estate yet often it commeth to passe through hâ—s almighty power and goodneâ—â—e that harlots also are partakers of this bleâ—sing and doe bring forth children so the blessing of spirituall propagation is peculiar to the true Church yet God which brought light out of darknes causeth some children to be borne and brought vp vnto him in false Churches For example the Church of Rome the mother of whordoms and abominations of the earth hath doubtles since she was wedded to Antichrist borne and brought vp by the generall true grounds of Chrstian relâ—geon taught in her many children of God and heyres of saluation This I sâ—ppose your selues will not deny neyther yet wâ—ll you say that Rome is Christ true Church Your reason then is as if Thamer should haue pleaded I am able to bear câ—ildren to nourse and brâ—ng them vp to mans estate c. therefore I am my Father Iudahâ— true and lawfull wife Gen. 38 15.18 c. 2. Now if these were essentâ—all notes which you haue set down yet helpe they you nothing for I deny that they ar ordinarily found in your Châ—rch For though I doubt not but the doctrine of your Church hath saued many yet that is Gods extraordinary blessing not the ordinarie effects of your Church This is the thinâ— you should haue proued by comparing yoâ—r Church and minâ—sterie with the Lawes and promises in Gods word which because you haue not done but onely quoted some scriptures generally which men of all religions may doe likeweise I will by one or two of the scriptâ—res that your selfe here ciâ—e shew how vnlike you are to a true Church and Ministery In Rom. 10.3.17 th' Apostle treateth of two things 1 of calling on
ministerâ—e they are nâ—â— onely against vs but against themselues for theyr own Câ—â—rches consist of â— separated and voluntary people wheras yoâ—rs are coâ—fused and compelled they condemn and haue reâ—eâ—ted the hierarchie and ministerie of Archbishopâ— Lord bishoâ—s c. Prâ—ests Parsoâ—s Vicars c. which are yet among you and haâ—e amonâ— them anâ—ther ministerie Now how they can apâ—roue of two sorts of Churches mâ—nâ—sterâ—es so contrary one to another let them look to â—t 5. It seemeth to me you are verie lauâ—sh in your praise which now vaunt so of the aâ—probation and reioycing of al the â—ure reforâ—ed Churches in the world whereas heretofore you complayned that you had all the bâ—st refâ—rmed Châ—râ—hes throughâ—ut Châ—istendom agâ—inst you Agayn the Harmony that you mention was set forth but by the French and Belgick churches the things that they approue among you are certayn general heads of religeon which a Bâ—shop wrote in an Apologie of your Church most of all which heads we our selues also approue and reioyce for But the controuersies between you and vs touching the gathering and constituting of a Church the manner of divine seruâ—ce the form of Church government and the like are eyther not at all or in very generall termes set down in that boâ—ke and so uerie slenderly if ought at all by them aâ—proued or reioyced for To giue an instance or two in the tenth section of that Hâ—rmony treating of the Châ—rch your English confession is so shorâ— and in generall words I doubt not bâ—t the Pope himselfe will subscribe vnto it letting him haue his own interpretation In the 15 section of Ecclâ—siasâ—icall meâ—tings you speake of prayer in the tongue which all yoâ—r people vnderstand Now because the Reformed churches approue of thiâ— we must take it belike that they approue of your Leiturgie and service book also and al your publick worship though it be not set downe fâ—r any to judge of In the 16. section of Holy day's fasts c. there yoâ— wriâ—e agâ—inst purgatory which being put into the Harmonie iâ— ynough as seemeth to proue that other châ—rches approue of al your Pope holy-dayes and festiuals The lâ—ke may be minded for other poynts as in the 17. section for ceremonies things indifferent which being approued of and reioyced for by all the Reformed churches in the world the Prelatâ—s wâ—l haue a shrewd hand against you that are called Puritans for standing so much against the ceremonies of your Church as you do· And for your minâ—stery I marveil you say not that it is approued of and râ—iâ—yced for of the Pope also for in the 11. section of that Harmony you beleeue these orders and degrees of ministers in the Church 1 Deacons 2 Priests and 3 Bishops which orders wehther the Reformed Churches approâ—e of or no I am sure the Counsel of Trent doth and hath decreed If any shall say that in the Catholik Church there is not a Hirarchie instituted by diuine ordination which consisteth of Bishops and Priests and ministers let him be â—ccursâ—d Concil Trident. Sess 23. Can. 6. But now seeing not onely the Fathers of the Counsel of Trent but all reformed Churches in the world as you sayd doe approue of and reioyce for this your ministerie I hope the Bishops and hirarchie of your Church shall no more be preached writen against by your inferior Priests as many a day they haue been as being Antichrâ—stâ—an Thus may you see what a weak foundation you bring for your church and ministerie and if we lyfted to fight against you with your own weapons we could allege many things from the persons whome you cite against your present church and ministery but the word of God yeeldeth vs armour ynough for this battell against you as in due tâ—me through his grace shall be seen 6. In the meaÌ„ while it shal not be amisse to put the reader in mind how your selues heretofore haue iudged and written of your ministerie which you say it is approued of and reiâ—yced for of all the pure reformed churches in the world your ministers being as before is noted Deacons Priests and Bishops Of the Deacenship you haue written that it is a meer humane institution a degree to the Priesthood and nothing like to the ordinance of God Of Priests c. that they cam from the Pope as out of the Troian horses belly to the destruction of Gods kingdom Of the Bishops c. that you account them no natural members of the body of Christ church becauase they are of humane addition not borne with her nor grown up with her from the cradle Agayne that they be rather members of the strumpet of Rome then of the spouse of the Lamb c. And haue not you the reformed Churches great cause now to reioyce for this ministery 7. Moreouer consider you also how we may allege that now 10. yeares sithence we have published our Confession of faith and causes of our separation from your Church and ministery to the learned Vniversities of the Reformed churches with desire if in our faith or practise we erred that they would shew it vs but to this day we know not any that haue vndertaken so to doe wherefore we also may suppose by their silence that they approue our case or at least suspend their iudgments and condemne vs not 8. Finally it is written in one of the scriptures that you quote the spirituall man iudgeth all things but he himselfe is iudged of no man 1 Cor. â— 15. Now every true Christian is a spirituall man Gal. 6. 1. 1 Pet 2.5 therfore he may judge and discerne by Gods word and spirit faith from here sie and the true church from the false he may see with his eyes liue by his own faith and not depend vpon other men to liue walk in sin till other churches condemne it Let every man therfore retayn his liberty and take heed how he iudgeth 4. THe onely wicked Paâ—ists Athâ—ist and most ungodly ones are aduersaries to our godly ministers and people The godly in all placâ—s and times among vs by them alone anâ— ordinarily haâ—e been conuerted vnto Christ and by them approâ—ed reuâ—renced and obeyed alwayes in the Lord. Answer 1. IF the onely wicked be adversaries to your Godly ministers and people it perteyneth not to us who hate none of you bâ—t wish well and pray for you al euen for our persecutors we are aduersaries onely to the sinns corruptionâ— that are among you whiles we reproâ—e you for â—inne you should â—udâ—e that we loue and hate you not as the law teâ—cheth We say therefore with the Apostle are we become your enemies because we â—ell â—ou the truth Gal. 4 16. 2 The Atheists and wicked oneâ— that so hate your godly ministers and people are theâ— not also mâ—â—bers of yoâ—r owne Church So then your church is diuided against it selfe and you are aduers one to another And why tel
not slanders but matters known to all that are acquainted with the course and state of your Church Answer ALl this being true it sheweth the badnes of some men not any badnes in the faith we professe An infidel might haue obiected vnto Israel as you doe here The Lord hath testified against you by giuing ouer ouer very many of your people to Carnall life Sedâ—mitrie Peorisme Bautisme many other idolatries with strange Gods The Papists may and doe obiect the like things to your selues at this day much more iustly then you do to vs. For when any such haue appeared among vs we presently cast them out if they repented not whereas with you such are stil reteyned in the bosome of your Church yea such hereticks and vicious persons as we haue excommunicate you doe entertayn as is knowen to all that ar acquainted with your estate Wherefore the Lord hath testified for vs not against vs whiles by the light of his word such hypocrites haue been discouered and avoyded but you are condemned by your own doctrine whiles such miscreants and flagitioius persons are kept in your communion The 6. Consideration 6. THE churches and godly learned persons that euer heard of your separation did not approue of it which was the quarrel that Fr Iohnson had with Mr Iunius and he sharply replyeth on him Nay Mr Barrow plainely rayseth at Caluin and the Geneua church and euen at al churches in Christendom in his Discouerie and counsels not with other reformed churches about their separation but Answers as Mr Iohnson doth the word is neer vs we need not go ouer the seas to seek it as if the Spirit of the Prophets were not subiect to the Prophets and himselfe as the Pope had infallible rule of inâ—erpretation of the scriptures in his brest Answer THE strength of this reason is quelled before in the answer to the third of your first Considerations thither I refer the reader Further I answer here that you teach such doctrine as standeth not with Christian freedom or truth whiles you would forbid vs the profession and practise of the Gospel til we haue consulted with and be approued of other persons and Churches For though I grant ther is a good use of aduising with other Churches if conueniently we can eyther when cases are difficult or when in any respect it doe concerne them yet that in all matters of religioÌ„ ChristiaÌ„s should be bouÌ„d thus to walke when the finne to them is euident which to other Churches not wel acquainted with their estate is not so perspicuous this were to abridge Christian liberty and to bring our consciences in bondage vnto men that though God forbid vs al communion with idolatrie yet we may not separate vnlesse they approue it It is contrary to the word of God which teacheth vs that Gods commandement is not hid from his people neyther is far off not alost in heauen nor beyond the sea but in our mouthes â—â—rts to doe it But you to deceiue your reader allege this as if it were Mr. Bâ—rrows or Mr Iohnsons reason and not the doctrine of Moses and of the Apostlâ— The colâ—â—r that you bring for your selfe is that saying of the Apostle the spirites of the prophâ—ts are sâ—biect to the prophâ—ts 1 Cor. 14.32 which scripture considered by the words and circumstances of it will in no weâ—se proue your purpose Fâ—r first it may be qâ—estioned whether the meaninâ— be that the spirits of the prophets are subiect to other prophets or to thâ—mselves For the Prophets among the gentiles such as the Corinthians naturally were were sâ—bject unto caried and ruled by their spirits and not their spirits subject to them so that they could not choose but sâ—eâ—ke as Sâ—bylla wâ—tneâ—seth of her selfe neither could they lin or cease speaking when they would themselues yea and in holy scripture we see how Balaam prophesied good to Israel and bleâ—sed when he would haue cursed thâ—m Saul also and his messengers prophesied as it were by constreynt being ouermastered by the spirit soo as he could not coâ—teyn himselfe buâ— stripping off his clothes propheâ—â—eâ— all that day and all that night when he had no purâ—ose thus to doe Now therfor where as the Apostle here had ordeyned that if any thing were reâ—eled to another that fare by the first prophet should hold his peace because almight prophesie one by one if any should allege that they could not hould their peace but must speak so long as their spirit moued theÌ„ he telleth them that the spirits of thâ— prophets are suâ—iâ—ct to the prophets so intimating that they may if they will giue others leâ—ue to speak shewing also a reason hereof because God is not the author q of confusion but of peace And if thus wee understand the Apostle his words make nothing for that you say Vnto this also may be added that he speaketh this affirmatâ—uely they are subject and not by way of ordinance let them be subject as els where he vseth and as other things in this place are spoken as Let the prophets speak Let the first hold his peace Let women be silent But be it granted which I will not deny that he meaneth their spirits wer subject to other Prophets because when they had spoken others were to iudge yet those oâ—her were the Prophets of â—he same church and there present not in other churches For Paul meant not that the spirits of the Prophets in Corinth were subiect to the prophets in Rome or Iudoea and so must send to them for approbation but appoynteth like order in this as was in all other the Churches of the Saincts And if they were bound as you would haue us to send and submit to other churches and others likeweise to them then no Church hath no power in iâ— selfe to aprâ—â—e of her prophets or Ministers or of their doctrine without the good likâ—ng of others Which how farr it is from the Apostles mind I leaue it for the dâ—screet reader to judge neither thinke I but your owne brethren will distaâ—t yâ—â—r so collecting from this place Howsoeâ—er they doe it is verie like if you had liued in Ahabs dayes and should haue heard 400 prophets at once prophesying good vnto the King and Micaiah onely prophesying evill you would with Zidkijah haue smitteÌ„ him on the cheek as now you do vs in reproch told him that his spirit must be subiect to the prophets especially they being so many and he but alone But if it were further granted vnto you that we must be subiect to the prophets of other churches yet I suppose you wil not deny but al prophets and churches must trie and iudge euery thing by the word of God according to which if any man speak not his iudgment is not to be regarded And we haue offred and doe still offer our doctrine and practise to the triall
their dutie Gods word teacheth uâ— tâ—at â—f a man walke in any one sinne though he doe not all he shal nâ—t liue but die the deâ—th Ezek. 18 11 13. Wâ—en Gibeah was giuen oveâ— to the Sinne of Sodom if the Priests and prophets should haue preached against idolatrie swearing breaking of the Sabbath and such like evils and not against that particular filthynes which the people followed should they haue preached repentance truly When Israel followed Iereboams calues at Dan and Bethel if the ministers then had preached against Sodoâ—ie whordome drunkennes and the like and not cried out aâ—ainst that present idol worship but pleaded rather for it shâ—uld they haue tâ—uâ—ht repenatnce truly Even thus it is with your best minâ—sterâ— they will thâ—â—deâ— out in their pulpits against Popery and idolâ—try in â—eâ—erâ—ll aâ—ainst theft whordome prâ—de coueteousnes and mâ—â—y oâ—her iâ—qâ—â—â—ieâ— but the sinne which cleaueth so fast to the bones of â—oâ—r Church tâ—e heynous enormities in Gods worship amongst you these they meddle not with neither vpon payn of excommunicatiâ—â— draw the people to repentance for them as after I will further shew Perhaps now and then they will glance at the Bps. or some other corruptions but bring the people from vnder these iniquities they doe not nay they plead for them rather and cry oâ—t vpon vs which haue forsaken so grosse abâ—minations Now there being no notice giuen by the ministers or taken by the people of the siâ—ns wherein they liue the other two parts of true reâ—entance doe also fail among you for farr you be from confessing your sins which though you offer the sacrifice of fools yet will you not know that you doe evill and most farr from amending them when with so high a hand you doe maintain them although the testimonie and sâ—ffrings of vs your disâ—ised and persecuted brethren against them haue sounded in your eares now manâ—e a day Thus teach they not repentance aright As for faith it cannot be sound and true where it hath not ground oâ— the couenant and promise of God Gods couenant and â—romise of saluation you haue not without repentance as Christ sayd Except ye repent you shall all likewise pâ—rish for surely God will wound the hairie â—ate of him that walketh in his sinnes To preach faith therefore and aâ—ply iustification by faith to an vnrepentant people is to â—rofane that holy doctrine and turne the grace of God into licentâ—ousnes But to giue the seales of the righteousnes of faith baptisme and the Lords supper to the wicked blasphemers irreligious and to their seed it is a sinne of sinâ— for which your ministers shall giue an heauy account to Christ at his appearing as haue counted the â—recious blood of his testament an vnholiâ— thing and washed and fed therewith eâ—en doggs and swine as the scripture calleth such vngodly â—ersons And thus you haue not truly taught among you eyther repâ—ntance from dead works or faith towards God which are the doctrine of the beginning of Christ and the very foundation as the Apostle saith I will now also compare the practise of the Apostles in the placâ— which you cite with yours that the reader may see how your right eye is blinded to bring scripture so playn against your selues In Act. 2 37 c the manner of gathering and planting that church‘ is thus described There was first the word preached by the Apostles verse 14 c which being heard pricked the harts of the â—eople verse 37. there was repentance taught not for adultery theft worshiping of Idols oâ— the like whereof it may be that people was not knowen to be guilty but for their particular trespasse in refusing of Iesus Christ into whose name they must be baptised if they would be saued verse 38 then followed a playn separation from such as frowardly resisted the truth vers 40 and none were baptised or ioyned to the church but such as gladly receiued the word verse· 41. After this followed a contâ—newing notwithstanding the imminent peril of trouble and persecution for the truth sake in the Apostles doctrâ—ne and fellowship and breaking of bread and prayerâ— verse 42 If you had walked in this primitiue churches steps you should before the constituting of your Church haue preached vnto the poor ignorant and idolatrous Papists which was the generall face of the land at Q Maries death repentance for their sinns in all their idolatries wâ—ll worships and superstitions subiection to Antichrist his prelacie priesthood and gouernment c. To such as had their harts pricked with your doctrine you should haue shewed the true way of the Gospel faith and holy walking therein You should haue taughâ— them a separation from the profane and obstinate and haue gathered into the Church such onely as gladly receiued the word and with them you should haue walked in a holy communion and practise of Christs ordinances thâ—ugh Princes and Parlâ—aments thoâ—gh men and Angels should haue forbidden threatned you for it Thus had your church beeÌ„ the daughter of thâ—t mother church in Ierâ—salem whereas now by neglecting this patterne and reteyning the Popish confuse multitude and a great part of their ministery and worship you haue imitated Bâ—bylon â—e mother of fornications aâ—d â—re as vnlike Sion as you are like your selues The objection which you feared and therefore would prevent with answer is yet of more weight then will be eased by your syllogisme the aâ—sumption whereof I deny For the true constituting of a Church by the word perached callâ—ng men to a willing holy covenant with God sepâ—ratinâ— them from the wayes of Satan Antichrist his false idoatrâ—â—s worship priesthood and government vniting them togither in the comâ—union of the true faith and bond of loue and peace which ar the controuersies between you and vs these poynts are cleerly set down in scriptures to the vnderstandâ—ng of the spirituall as the history of all the Bible and the practâ—se of the Apostles and primitiue churhes already alleged doe plainely shew and I am sure you will not deny but they were spirituall Whereas you would â—roue they are not clearely set downe to the vnderstand of the spirituall because thowsands of ministers and people of the churâ—h of Englâ—nd are of contrary iudgment to vs first we haue many testimonies of your own minâ—sters for the things that we defend against you as in this and other books we haue manifested Secondly if we had no such testimony yet what doe you but make your selues iudges in your own cause that though we bring never so playn evidence against you from the word yet if you see it not or wil not see it must not be needful for saluation More vnsound and popish doctrine hath seldome been taught But I leaue vpoÌ„ you the saying of Christ vnto the Pharisees If you â—ere blinde ye should not haue sinne but now ye say WE SEE therefore your sin remayneth Iohn 9 11. And whereas
church because a great part of his word and scriptures and of the graces of his spirit are here neuer spoken nor heard nor suffred to be vttered and contrariweise much of mans word and writing is brought in as Aprocrypha books made of old the Seruice and homily books made of late in which also there be manifest errourâ— lâ—es contradictions to the holy scriptures idolatrous and and superstâ—tious doctrines rites ceremonses c. taught vnto and obserued by th' priests people an idle soul-murthering ministry maynteyned Chrâ—sts spirituall graces giuen for teaching and building vp his church quenched with other like evils The proof of this may be seen in their communioÌ„ book whose Kalender alotteth what is to be read dayly and yerely in all their Assemblies where many chapters of the Bible are wholly and perpetually excluded many Apocrypha chapters read as holy scriptures And by the written homilies the graces and vtterance of Gods spirit are extinguished that mans erroneus writing may come in place Besides this all preaching Ministers so limitted and restreyned in their doctrine that they may not preach against any sinn by publick authority establâ—shed and if they doe they are silenced excommunicated c. this indignity and dishonour Christ will not suffer at mans hands to haue his word and mans word matched together his spirit spirit truth restreyned he wil be Prophet aloÌ„e or not at al. as they that with the trâ—e God and his true worship had other Gods also other worships are sayd in scripture to forsake the true God and to bâ— without him so they that with the true Prophet and doctor Christ and his doctrine haue other also may rightly be sayd to haue forsaken him and to be wâ—thout him For when men set their thresholds by the Lords and their posts by his they defile his holy name with their abominations and in vayne they worship him that teach such doctrines as be precepts of men Moreover thiâ— Church wanteth part and communion with Christ in that propheticall office which he hath imparted to his peoâ—le namely power and freedom to witnes professe practise and hold forth the word of life and all that Christ hath commanded to admonish reproue one another for sinne and transgression and eyther if they repent to forgiue them or if they repent not to follow them further vnto the church and even to excommunication for their obstinate violating Gods law That they haue not power or freedome to professe and practise the truth of the Gospel in these things appeareth by their seruile subiection to the hierarchie lawes and canons which are amongst them whereby they are restreyned from professing and practising any further truth then is by law establâ—shed among them but must obey follow all that their spirituall Lords the Bishops doe inioyne them and may not speake against or reproue any of the abominatioÌ„s that ar in their church worship Ministery ceremonies c. neyther haue power to deal according to that rule of Christ Mat. 18 15. c for any sinne be it never so horrible and manifest but must leaue it to the censure of the Prelate or hiâ— Commissarie who at his pleasure buyeth and selleth the sins and soules of men This bondage the people should not be in if they had and inioyned the word of God which is the truth for that truth would make them free that they should not in this sort be seruants of men But now not haâ—ing power to professe much lesse to practise the truth nor to reproue the euils that reign among them not hauing the free vse of Gods word in priuate nor the right and lawfull Ministery or vse therof in publick they cannot be sayd to haue Christ for their Prophet and Therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of God EVery true Church of God hath Christ for the Priest and Sacrificer of the sâ—me for he onely is the high Priest of our profession and to him it was sworne thou art a Priest for euer after the order of Melchisedek Heb 3 1 5.5 6 10 9 11. c. But the Church of England hath not Christ for the Priest or sacrificer of the sâ—me Because the gifts and sacrifices which it offreth vnto God are not presented and offred vnto him by Christ neyther is this church reconciled reconciled vnto God by him And first the worship and seruice which they performe vnto God their prayers prayses and confeâ—sions which now are Christâ—an mens sacrifices are not offred and sanctified by Christ because they are false and idâ—lâ—trous wherewith Christ hath no communion For â—nstead of true spirâ—tuall prayer and prayses the fruits of Gods spirit in his â—eoâ—le they read a written leiturgie translated out of the Masse book and accordâ—ng as they are stinted in the same they speak obserâ—ing also the many Popish ordinances râ—tes and ceremonies commanded in the same as their holy and festivall dayes holy eues and fasting dâ—yes absolutioÌ„ of sinns by their priests confirmatioÌ„ of Baptisme by theâ—r Prelates profanation of the Sacraments by priâ—ate administration and howsling with them by gossips by idolatrous signes and gestures of croâ—â—e kneeling c. also marying by the Priest with signe of the ring churching of womeÌ„ burial of the dead readâ—ng curses or comminations in stead of discipline besides the sundry errours and vntruthes in that book vayn repetâ—tions in their prayers and the like All which being commanded and vsed dayly by law of their church without ground from Gods word which approueth none of these idolatries but condemneth them are not sanctified by Christ nor presented vnto God hiâ— Father For he will not offer the idol sacrifices neyther will God accept such things as by his law he teacheth all men to abhorr Secondly whereas the bodyes and sowles of men are also spiritual and liâ—ing sacrifices and the persons offred in the Church by the Ministeâ—y of the Gospel should be as the holy flâ—ck as the flock of Ierusalem in their solemne feasts that so the oblation of them might be acceptable being sanctified by the holy Ghost the people offred in this church are a confuse vnsanctified mâ—ltitude not separated from the world as before in the first argument is shewed and many of them so wicked even by the confeâ—sion of their own ministers and in every honest mans conscience as they neyther deseru to be layd on Gods alter nor to be touched of any true Israelite in such respect Yet ar they by the Priests of this church offred dayly vnto God in their administration and blessed in his name Yea the precious sacrifice of the body and blood of Christ remembred and reâ—resented by bread and wine at his supper is prostitutâ—â— as if it were an vnholy thing to the prophane and wicked in this church which being vnworthy receiuers are
the church is builded contrary to the â—layn and manifest doctrine of the scriptures Leu. 20.24 1 Kin 8 53. Act. 2.40 and 19.8 â— Iohn 17.16 2 Cor. 6.14 â—7 18. The form and order of their vâ—iting is alsâ— strange for these profane people euen all persons in a famâ—ly anâ— all families in a parish are vnited into one parish church as it is called not voluntarily â—as ought to be in the true châ—rch but by constreynt not by any due profeâ—sion of repentance from â—ead workâ— and faith in God but by the priests readinâ— a Confession absolution and such like popish stâ—ff as is to be seen in their seruice book not vnder the guidance of Chrâ—sts officers but of a Parson Vicar Curate or other like creature of the Bishops who in many places can but read English vnto them And this with the other Parâ—shes of the Dioceâ—â—e so gathered also are vnited into one See or Dâ—ocesâ—â—â— church vnder a Lord Bishop and his Coâ—rtiers and all the Dioces into two Proâ—inciall churches the Prouinciall into one nationall church called the Church of England ouer all which there is a most reuerend Father and spirituall Lord Archbushop Primate and Metropolitan vnder whome al Bishops and Priests of the land are subiect and all people and parishes in the land bound to obey the dead canons and decrees which he the Ach Lord with his brethren of the gouerning clergie agree of in their repreâ—atiue church in the Conuocation howse if once the Ciuill Magistrate giue life vnto them This forme and order of a church is not to be found in Chrâ—sts Testament but receiued it is from the church of Rome by heritage or succession as the Papists boast of to the dishonour of Protestants when they say A religion c. that distinguished the multitude into pâ—rishes â—roportioÌ„ed â—he tithes annâ—xed thâ— Glebeland fonÌ„ded the Bishopricks â—mitted the Dioceses c So as the mother is the daughter is false in her câ—stitutioÌ„ though in the doctrin which she profeseth she is far better purer theÌ„ that whoremother of Rome The discussing of thes things as Mr Bern. refereth to other places books so also do I seing in thiâ— place â—e hath brought nothing of weight to proue his coÌ„stitutioÌ„ For the scriptâ—re that he alegeth the 3. things that he colecteth from theÌ„ do make against his purâ—ose The word is not by Christs mâ—nistery riâ—htly reached applyed to the people but vnsufferabley abused to the maintenance or the confusion and idolatries that are among them the sacraments are highly profaâ—ed and prostituted to the most vngodly and thir seed and popishly administred and the externall profession which the people make is by constreynt and therefore nought worth besides it is corrupt and idolatrous being a mixed profession partly of the truth of God partly of their own inuentions as appeareth by their Communion book Canons and the like Our second error should be that we hold their Constitution a real idol and so them idolaters To confute this Mr Ber. sayth that he hâ—th perused in any scriptures and can see none that take an idol or idolaters in any such sâ—nse agaâ—n that Marlorat mentioneth 47. idols and not one of them in â—he sâ—nse Whether this article be of Mr Bernards own forginâ— or where he hath had it I cannot tell his reader must take all of his credâ— for he lets not down his author As for his confutation hereof it is very slender that becaâ—se he seeth it not or Maâ—lorat nameth it not therefore it is no idol For it is no sure position that Mr Bernard seeth all that â—he scriptures teach and both he and Marlorat may as soon number the hayres of their heads aâ— all the idols that are in the world Wel therefore yet may â—t be a real idol for oâ—ght that this man hath sayd to saue it And if it be a false constitâ—tion as before is proâ—ed set vp in stead of a true what is it better then a very idol In the end he tâ—rneth and renteth vs for making oâ—r own constitution as he sayth an idol or goddesse and feighneth that we may say Great is the Goddesse Constitution great is Diana of the Bâ—â—â—nists Bâ—t seing this is but a reâ—roch of a scorner and the reproch reacheth vnto Christ himselfe who hath appoynted the frame order and constitution of hâ—s own châ—rch which we haue laboured for I leaue him for this calumniation vnto his rebuke who will teach him one day no more to blaspheme And whether may we think tendeth the inuectiue of this vayn man who thus skoffeth at the Constitution of Christs church but to bring in a mere ataxie or confâ—sion worse then was at Babels tower-building for take away the orderly framing and constituting of a church and there will be but a Tohu as the scripture speaketh a rude indigest heap or confute Chaos more beseeming the wild beasts of the wood then any humane much lesâ—e diuine polâ—ty That such as are not of a particular constituted church to weet such a one as ours is are no subiects of Christs kingdome Neyther is this position set downe in our words to my knowledge neyther doth Mr Bâ—rnard take away but confirme rather the thing that we hold for he granteth that they offend God which may and doe not ordinarily hauing 〈◊〉 canes offred liue in a church rightly constituted and we grant that many of Christs subiects for want of meanes doe not liue in a true constituted church If therefore he were not a caviller he would not haue reckned this among our errors That all nor in our way are without and we apply against them in Engl. 1 Cor. 5 12 Eph. 2 12. The first part of this position you must impuâ—e to Mr Bernards charity who wâ—ll needs frame our assertions for vs because he thinkes we cannot speake for our selues we might leaue it vnto him to frame an answer also But if he would let vs tel what we hold it is that all not in the way â—f Châ—ist are without and if this be an error let him make the most of it The applying of those scriptures against them he must be content to bear til he or his brethren can proue theÌ„selues a true church for though there bâ— great differences of peoples professing religion some with more truth â—ome with lesse yet all not wâ—thin Christs church are without as thâ— Aâ—ostle speaketh Mr Bernards exception that those places are meant of sâ—ch as neuer professed Christ at all is childish why doth he not except aâ—aâ—nâ—t the holy Ghost himselfe who apâ—lieth against the false Christâ—ans of the Râ—mish Church words and sâ—eaches meant first of heathen Babylon that profeâ—â—ed not God or Christ at all His boasting of the word sacraments effects and deliuerances are before in this traatise taken away And Mr Bernards proofs are but a begging of the question which he blameth in otherâ— as
hierarchâ—e worship ceremonies ordinances church constitution c. which things can neuer be approued by the word of God are yet held and vpheld taught and mainteyned in the church to the excommunicating and persecuting of all such as speake against them or refuse to communicate with them This sinfull mixture and maintenance of so much antâ—christian error with the christian truthes that they profeâ—â—e is no true Christian profession and practise of our obedience vnto the fundamentall truth of the gospell neyther can the ministers proue that these contraries will stand together when account shal be giuen before the iudgment seat of Christ. Secondly I answer as to their former reason that although some Bishops and Priests haue written Articles Catechismes c. yet are not these approuâ—d much lesse walked in by the church of Engl. neyther are the people rooted bâ—ilded and stablished in the faith according to Colos. 2. but are diâ—â—olute and profane in their conuersation rooted in uices and stablished in iniquitis as lameÌ„table experience teacheth all men as the testâ—monâ—es of their own ministers before alleged proue and many other we might allege and must if these men still continue to vrge that which is knowne to be farr otherweise For how well their people doe walke in the faith of the foundation Christ and approue of all fundamentall truthes in the scriptures let these testimonies of their own freinds shew The most part of your honest men saith Mr Gifford to and of his brethren now a dayes delight so much in the word of God and meditate so much in it that they care not a button though they neuer heare it they loue it and set as much by it as they doe by an old sâ—â—e Euery man sayth an other followeth the pride couetousnes whordome dronkennes of his owne hart and no man remembreth Ioseph The barrs are filled with pleadings the streets are full of cries of the poor fulnes of meat and contempt is among vs and who considereth Yet if this our sinne were onely against men and not against God there â—ight be some hope But when the mouth of the blâ—spemous swearer is not tiâ—d vp and the hands of the idolatrous generation of Atheists and profane persons be not chained when the most holy and precious word of God is manifestly contemned the ioyfull and heauenly tidings of saluation so negligently and vngratefully troden vnder foot the true and faithfull messengers pursued arraygnned and diuers wayes â—fflicted then if the old world for malicious imaginations Sodome and Gomora for pride fulnes of meat and vnmercifulnes if Ierusalem for abusing Gods Prophets and wilfulnesse were woefully destroyed what may we poor carelesse People look for it we doe not repent but as it is almost vniuersally feared spâ—edy ruine and vtter desolation The exceptions which these Godly ministers take against Mr Barrowes writings and yet professe not to answer them need not now to be stood vpon till the particulars whereby he hath discouered their errors and euill dealings be by them taken away They further taxe note it in him as a strange opinion and an error full grosse mainteyned in pag. 156.157 of his Discouery vidz that euery truth conteyned in the scripture is fundamentall But the grossnes or crossnes wil be found in themselus for that which Mr Barrow there inueigheth against was this that though transgressions and errors be obstinately continued in and openly taught after they be reproued and conuinced by the word of God yea and the parties dye in that estate without repentance of these transgressions or errors yet may they hold the foundation and be vadoubtedly saued Of this minde were and still continue sayth he fiue of the very principal and best esteemed ministers of Engl. both for learning and conscience although there were alleged against the same these expresse scriptures Num. 15.30 31. Exod. 23.21 1 Sam. 15.22.23 Ezek. 18.26 Mat. 5 18 19 Iam. 2 10. c. This was the thing that M Bar. there bet down shewing further that if the whole scripture was giuen by inspiration of God and is profitable to teach to conuince to correct to instruct in righteousnes if it be the groundwork and foundatioÌ„ of the church of our fayth if it be the law and rule of our life the light of our eyes c. If euery word of God be holy pure perpetuall then is this deep learning of theyrs diuilish and blasphemous that thus to colour and couer their wickedness make some part of gods word fundamentall substantiall necessary other accidentall superficiall needlesse especially where it sheweth reproueth and condemneth their doings c Now what say these ministers against this plea they plainly yeild in effect to th'truth which they could with no coulour gainsay we beleeu say they and teach that there is no Part of holy scripture which euery Christian is not necessarily bound to seek desire knowledge of so far sorth as in him lyeth Very wel sayd had they added also this word obeyed which I suppose they would be thought to intimate there would be no difference between M Barrow and them though thus they would traduce him But least they should seeme to condemne themselues they except yet dare we not cal euery truth fundamentall that is such as if it be not knowne and obeyed the whole religion and fayth of the church must needs fall to the ground and agayne we doubt not that some parts are of more vse and more necessary for men to know then othersome In these things excepting the word fundamentall which seemeth to be but strife about a word We agree with them neyther doth Mr Barrow that I can perceiue disagree for it is one thing not to know and obey euery truth as they speake and another thing to know as hauâ—ng reproofe and conuiction by the word of God and yet to disobey and rebel against the truth and continue obstinately in transgreâ—sion which was the poynt in hand And for the world fundamentall seing all Gods testimonies are true and Dauid sayth that the Lord hath founded them for euer I see no cause why we need be afraid to call euery trâ—th fundamentall that is such as is firme and stable and on which we shovld ground and builde our faith and actions vp on alwayes Yet seing now what these ministers vnderstand by the word I will not striue Also M Barrow himselfe in his Obseruations vpon Mr Giffâ—rds last reply telleth him that he denyeth not in vse of speech such distinction so much as withstand such eronius abuse of that distinction which M. Gifford and other deuines of these tymes would infer thereof And in deed the simple are much beguiled by this subtile distinction For when the sinns and idolatrâ—es of these Priests are blamed answer is made though they be sinns yet are they not fundamentall they cut vs not off from Christ we hold him the foundation and
also command and compell all the world to be ioyned vnto the church And thus the world and the church between whom there hath been perpetuall warr mought soon be reconciled If this be a lawfull and orderly course it is strange that Christ sent forth poor fishermen to conuert sowles by preaching and set not the princes which he could as easily have done seing he had al power in heauen in earth to make disciples by compulsion and penalty Now for the parable they allege it is apparant that the same seruant was sent to compell that was before sent to call the inuited and if this be meant of the Magistrate then kings must leaue gouerning and goe to preaching We finde in the scripture that compulsion is not alwayes by the ciuill sword but sometime by instant and earnest vrging of the word and doctrine as they that compelled the Galatians to be circumcised and he that compelled the Gentiles to Iudaize And from this word compell to vrge or gather a ciuill forced compulsion is with no more reason or colour then as if some factious rebells should take vp armes for to stablish religion and allege how it is written the kingdome of heauen suffreth violence and the violent take it by force For as force and violence here is not ciuill but spiritual so is compulsion to be taken in the parable But a throne sayth Solomon gets vp in a dronkards hand and a parable in the mouth of fools Prou. 26.9 They allege that the first conuersion of our land to the faith of Christ was by preaching of the gospell Whether this were so or not remayneth for them to proue in their next book for in this they doe it not They must I suppose take the preaching of the gospel in a large sense if they will proue it For as it is vncertayn what was the fayth of the ancient Brittaines or how they were converted so for the English Saxons which were conuerred from Paganisme Mr Bale one of their own writers saith that Austen the Roman was sent as an Apostle from Gregory 1. to conuert them to a popish fayth And by an other Chronicler we learne that Pope Gregorie 1. sent this Austen the monk into Engl. with fourty monks moe which entred the ile of Thennet on the east side of Kent with a crosse with banners displayed hauing a crucifix painted vpoÌ„ every one of them singing the Letany with Orate pro nobis to al Angels Archangels Patriarches Prophets Priests Apostles Martyrs Confessors Virgins Monks Nunns Heremites and finally to all hee Saincts and shee Saincts that they might haue good luck and wel to fare in setting forth their Romish religion But howsoeuer the conuersion of English men was then which is not now to be stood vpon till we hear the testimony of the best approued histories which these men say they haue for their assertion it is sure by the scripures that the churches in Rome Corinth and many other places were conuerted by the gospell yet remayn they not true churches still But say these ministers since that time many haue from age to age been called by the same means And so say I hath there been in Rome yet is she a harlot and not Christs spowse Great numbers say they were effuectally called in K. Edwards dayes I answer the whole land was compelled by ciuill force to change their forme of seruice in part and sundry true doctrines were taught in some places which some beleued but many disobeyed and rebelled as before is shewed Neyther was that confuse popish multitude with a few conuers therein a true visible church Mr Fox describeth the estate thereof by a similitude a a new face of things began now sayth he to appear as it were in a stage new players comming in and the old being thrust out Thus vpon that old stage of the popish church came new players to weet new Bishops Priests and the masse was then at first still by law reteyned but the gospel and Epistle read in English yet were not all new players for as is ther noted the preists and clergie that yeilded to the kings lawes were suffred to keep thâ—ir places liuings c. After this the king appoynted the c Archbishop of Cant with other Bishops c. to make one conuenient and meet order rite and fashion of common prayer and administration of Sacraments c. who did so Then in the Parliament following it was agreed that all ministers in the realm should be bound to say and vse the mattins euensong celebrating of the Lords supper c. in such order and form as was mentioned in the sayd book and none other or otherweise But the players it seemeth played not their parts well for after complaint is made how by the cloked contempt wil full winking and stubborne disobedience of Bishops and old Popish curates the book of common prayer was long after the publishing thereof eyther not knowne at all or els very irreverently vsed through many places of the realm Yet was there no great cause why the people should so despise it for as the K. answered to the rebels of Deuonsh if the seruice in the church was good in Latin it remayneth good in English for nothing is altered but to speak with knowledge that which was spoken in ignorance Now let the reader minde what was the estate of the church in those dayes and see if the word of God will approve it But there were say these men great numbers by preaching so effectually called that in Q Maries reign many sealed the truth with their blood I acknowledge it and say also that as there haue many martyrs died heretofore in the Popish church so I doubt not but great numbers at this day are by preaching so effectually called in Rome Spayn c. that if Turks or Pagans should preuayl ouer them they would mainteyn seal Christian religion with their blood rather then submit to Mahomet For as one of your best ministers hath truely sayd God of his infinite goodnesse who câ—lleth thyngs that are not as though they were even in that ministery hath giuen grace vnto his Saincts it was impossible that the man of sinne should so much adulterat the word of God but that it should be to the faithfull a gospel of salvation It is further alleged h there were sundry secret congregations all Q Maries dayes which gladly receiued the gospell offred by Q. Eliz. say thes ministers if it be sayd that they ceased to be the tru churchs of Christ becaus they ioyned became one body with such as were newly come and that not of conscience but for fear onely from idolatrie we answer that they rather that-had fallen from the Gospel in Q. Maries dayes were moued by Q Eliz proclamation to ioyne themselues vnto them that had stood faithfully all that while Here is still building
the name of the Lord and 2 of faith by hearing his word 1. Whosoeuer call th upon the name of the Lord shal be saued This we are to understand according to Dauids exposition whosoeuer calleth vpon him in truth Psa. 145 18. for God is a spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and trâ—th Ioh. 4.24 but the worship and calling vpon God which your Church vseth in reading the prayers letanie collects and other like things of your Leiturgie translated out of AntiChrâ—st masse-booke is carnall false Idolatrous for such a manner of diuine service you haue no commandement or warrant in the scriptures And this popish worship begetteth not but destroyeth faith and the true caling on Godâ— name and deceiueth mens sowles for in vayn they worship me sayth Christ teaching fâ—r doctrine the precepts of men Mat. 15.9 and they that wayt vpâ—n lyâ—ng vanâ—ties forsake their own mercy Ionah 1 8 2. For the other poynt Faâ—th is by bearing or by report saith the Apostle and proueth it by Isa. 53.1 Lord who hath beleeued our beâ—ring that is our report Now no man can truly and faithfully report â—nlesse God hath first spoken vnto â—â—m neâ—ther can aâ—y man fruâ—tfully hear other report or doctrine then the Lords and so hearing is by the word of God iâ— the mouthes of such as are sent as he sheweth in the 15 verse But youâ— Ministers are not truly and lawfully sent for they cannot shew eyther calling ordination or office according to Chrâ—sts Testament therefore they cannot truly and lawfully preach his word and consequently cannot beget ordinarily a true sauing faith The next scripture also Mat 28 19 20 playnly condemneth the state of your Church and ministerâ—e for 1. There is a lawfull calling authorizing and sending of ministerâ— from him that hath all power in heauen and in earth saying Goe therfore and teach but such a sending your ministers haue not for as your selues haue sayd they enter not in by Chrict but by a Popish and vnlawfull vâ—cation 2. There is a commandement to teach or make disciples before they be receiued into th' Church by baptisme for oâ— them that ar taught such onely as gladly receiue and beleeue the word are to be baptised and admitted into the Church as the practise of th' Apostle sheweth Act. â— 40 41. but your Church was not thuâ— gathered or plaÌ„ted by th' preaching of the Gospell but by the commandement of the Magistrate neither weâ— onely the willing beleevers receiued and others refused but the whole profane multitudes wer admitted or rather compelled into your church wher they and their seed are still retâ—yned 3. There Gods Ministers are willed to teach Chrâ—stians so baptised to obserue all things whatsoeuer Christ commanded his Apostles verse 20 so they haue his gracious promise and blessing to the end of the world but in your church many things are obserued which Christ neuer commaâ—ded Yea the Ministerie and goâ—erment appoynted in his TestameÌ„t are held and confirmed by practise among you not to be perpetual not necessary nor fitting for your state but an other pompous minâ—stery and Lordly ecclesiastical gouerment after the manner of the court of Rome And as for power and liberâ—y to obserue Christ commandements that is farr from your people which al are in bondage to the Bishops and their courts hauing not chrâ—stian freedom to censure sinne or sinners or practise the ordinances of the Gospel as the Apostles did vnlesse Princes and Parliaments will permit or command them The like may be sayd and returned vpon you from the other scriptures by you alleged all which doâ— concerne the true church and ministerie as your selues will not deny and so will helpe you nothing vntill you proue your church and ministerie such Boast not therefore of a true sauing faith and fruites of the spirit when such bitter fruites and works of the flesh doe reign among you for faith without works 〈◊〉 dâ—ad Iam. 2.26 Now then if you will giue us leaue to consider the state of your Church aright we would mind it thus your Church hath the essentiall notes of a false Church namly a confuse prophane worldly people with an Antichrâ—stian Prelacie and preisthood over them able to beget ordinarily but a vayne and dead faith through want of the true ministery of the word in Christs ordinance and by meanes of the false worship and false doctâ—nes that are in your Church to worke the fruits of the flesh as the idolatries and other sinful actions abounding in your Church doe shew to make a man a very Antichristian by resisting persecuting and blaspheming the true way of Christ and practise of his Gospel which alas too many doe and last of all to destroy him if he repent not of his sinneâ—â—nd find mercie with the Lord. which we desire you all may finde for the saluation of your soules The 3. Consideration OVr Church and ministerie are approved of and rejoyced for of all the pure reformed Churches in the world Our confession by them placed in the Harmonie of Confessions giâ—ing vs the right hand of fellowship as also by all the godly learned and most sound and excellent fathers lights of the churâ—h that euer liued in or meddle with our church Bucer Marâ—yr Fagius Alasio Knoxe who liued â—n our church Caluin Beza Bullinger Gualtâ—r â—ymlâ—r Zanchius Iunius Rolocus c. with others verie many who haue giuen their testimony and approbation to our church and ministerie Wherin if our errors were fundamentall damnable and Antichristian as you terme them these churches and persons had vndoubtedly the spirit of discerning and could not be deceiued all at once 1. Cor. 11 16. 14.33 â— 15 10.15 14.32 37 2. Thes. 1.4 Answer THough you come against vs with horsemen and charrets yet we will â—emember the name of the Lord our God by whose word alone all doctrines must be tried all persons must â—udge and be iudged It is incident to the best men and purest churches to erre and be deceiued wherefore their sentences and approbations must be examined by Gods word If you say otherweise you teach corrupt and popish doctrine With such weapons as these haue the Papists long foâ—ght against you and where you can bring one they can bring many to witnesse for them and their Romish superstitions Antiquity vniversality and sâ—ch lâ—ke popular reasons they seek to vphold their kingdome withall 2. The word of God condemning your church and ministerie as we haue often proued and our proofes ly vpon you yet unanswered though all churches in the world should aâ—proue of you your case wer â—o whit the better for all men are vanity 3. The Iewes obieâ—ted as weighty aâ— argâ—mâ—nâ— agaâ—â—â—t Câ—riâ—t him selfe wheâ— they sayd dâ—th any of the rulers or of the Phariseâ—s 〈◊〉 in him but this people which know not the Law are â—ursed Iâ—h 7 1â— 19 4. If the reformed Church's apâ—roue so well of youâ— Church and