in the parallels 1. Cor. 12 28. Rom. 12 6 7 8 Is this That the Holy Ghost therein describing purposly the various kindes of Church officers and speaking of the office of the pastour makes no distinction of a higher and lower pastour nor gives the least hint of either Name or thing of a diocesian prelat although both ordinary and extraordinary officers be enumerat even the ruleing elder and the deacone from which silence of the Scriptur as to this imaginarie Bishop we conclud him to be no plant of the heavenly fathers planting by the same reason that our divines conclude the pope to be such To this our Informer answers 1. That it is ill reasoning that because such ane officer is not in such a particular place or enumeration that therefor he is no where to be found in scripture for how prove we that the Apostle intended in that place a cempleat enumeration Ans he is guilty of a palpable forgerie here whillmaking his Doubter instance in this place only as if we held that there is here a full enumeration wheras he cannot but know that presbyterians in this argument against prelats as also protestants in opposition to the papacie doe together with this passage joyn the parallels 1. Cor. 12 28. Rom. 12 16. In which places collated there is found a compleat enumeration of all Church officers ordinary or extraordinary and adiscoverie of their duties and gifts who are ordinary officers even of the very Deacon Lykwayes we take in with these Texts the several descriptions of ordinary officers and particularly of the Bishop his gifts and duties found in any other places of the new Testamament And since this Informer cannot deny the Apostles or rather the Spirit of God his intention of a full enumeration in these places Collated Such a full Catalogue of Church-officers being therein found our argument from the Scriptures utter silence of the Diocesian prelat in all these places stands firme by his own Confession until he shall disprove this silence and prove the Contrary 2. Wee might tell him also that upon his own ground even the Silence of this Text as to the Prelat will prove our point for it being upon the one hand the Apostles scop to enumerat the most illustrous excellent gifts and offices given by Christ to the Church for her grouth and edification as his royal Mediatorie Donations upon his ascention into heaven and upon the other hand the Apostle descending as low in his enumeration as the Pastor and teacher whom this man holds to be officers inferiour to the Diocesian Prelat Certainely upon both these grounds he would have mentioned him in order to this scope had such ane officer been allowed or apappointed And as for this Text it is enough if we prove that the Apostle intended therein though not a compleat enumeration of all yet of the most excellent functions and officers given by Christ to his Church amongst which the Diocesian Bishops office hath the prime place in this mans Judgement How then I pray can he be here ommitted and ane inferior officer named His 2d Answer is That Bishops are comprehended under pastoures and teachers Bishops being such though of a Superior degree to ordinary Pastoures Ans. first that Scripture Bishops are comprehended under the pastor and teacher is certan but that the Diocesian should be so is Impossible and by him gratis dictum For. 1. he cannot shew that in these enumerations the Superior officer gets the designation of the inferior now he holds the Diocesian Prelat to be ane office and order Superiour to the Pastor Nixt this were no proper enumeration as he acknowledges there is here of distinct officers offices if they had not all there proper distinct names and designations And since Apostles Evangelists Pastors are proper designations of distinct officers and offices why ought not the Diocesian Bishop to have had his proper epithet and to have come in between the Evangelist and the Pastor for this was his proper Classe as the higher Church officer Againe This answer and shift is the same with that of the Papists to save the pope for they answer our divines Argument from this Text that he is included in the office of the Apostle But as we tell them that according to there account and Character of him he ought to have had a more peculiar designation So we may say to this Informer here Besides may not Patriarches and all the rabble of the popes locusts have this pretended for them that they are included in some of these officers Sure we may in Charity suppose that if a Papist were pleading thus This man would tell him that it were no defence to shape out officers of their own devising then alledge they are included in some of these scripture designations which answer suites his own case Since he cannot make it appear that the Diocesian Bishop is appointed in Scripture And we have proved his office to be contrary unto it Lastly Hetels us That if we will have here ane perfect enumeration of all Church officers we must comprehend ruleing elders and deacons in some of these words and why may not he doe so with Bishops Ans. 1. We need not in order to our scope nor argument from this text alledge either a full enumeration of all officers or goe about to includ elder and Deacon under some of these words It being enough if wee con shew that the most eminent Church officers given for the Churches edification are here enumerat that the enumeration comes the length of ane officer inferior to the Prelat in this mans esteemâ—… down from ane Apostle which renders our Argument from this Text impregnable 2. If we should include the elder and Deacon in one of these words we should but include therein inferiour officers of divine appointment in the designation of Superior which he will acknowledge to be no unusual thing in Scripture But his including the Diocesian Bishop is both the including of a forged anti Scriptural officer of his own deviseing and likewayes if he includ him under the Pastor and teacher ane including and comprehending of a Superiour officer under the designation of ane inferiour both which differences doe cutt the sinnewes of Reason and answer CHAP. XII The Informer offers Scripture warrand for Bishops His Argument from the Government of the Church under the old Testament and from the Apostles superioritie to the seventie disciples examined The first Argument concludes a lawful subordination of Church-offiers in general but reaches no help to the Diocesian Erastian Bishop The second beggs the question in supposing Prelats to succeed the Apostles immediately and Pastoures the seventy disciples and from a Superiority among officers of different kindes groundlesly concludes a superiority among officers of the same kind No Image of our Prelacy in the Iewish-Church-Government or in the Apostles superioritie above other Church-officers The Informer contradicts his fellowpleaders in this cause
14. Examined and retorted upon him His charge of Externall Schsme in separating in acts of Worship fortified by that passage Heb. 10 25 Examined page 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42. The doubters argument from 1 Cor. 12 v. 31. that wee ought to seeke the best most edifying gifts advantageously for himself but fraudulently proposd by the Informer Considerations to clear and enforce this Argument The Informers answers examined at large page 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 42 His Argument for adhering to Conformists taken from the reciprocall tye betwixt a Minister and people Ezek. 33 8. Heb. 13 17. Mal. 2 7. 1 Thess. 5 11 12. As also from Mr Durham on the revelation page 105 106. examined at large page 53 54 55 56 57 58 59. the premised texts improâ—…en against Conformists plea from this supposed tye and relation ibid. Chap. 3 page 58. The doubters argument from Curats not entering by a call from the people and that passage Acts 14 23. cleared and emproven page 59 60 61 62 63. The Informers first answer that several whom we refused to own entered by this call ibid. his exception upon the term 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 examined his first answer touching the use of the word to expresse the action of onesingle person proved from Acts 10 41. examined the use of the word cleared from parallels criticks and Interpreters page 64 65 66. His second Answer that Greek writers use this Word to signifie ordination without suffrages and that this was the action of Paul and Barnabas examined The granting that this was the action of Paul and Barnabas distinct from the Churches suffrage will not help the Informer Page 67 68 69. He walks crosse to interpreters in this answer page 70 71 72. His third answer that wee will thus give advantage to independants for popular election of Ministers examined wherein the difference betwixt the independents and us in this point is cleared from the Judgement and principles of Presbyterian writers page 73 74 75 76 77. His last answer is that if wee disown Conformists for want of this call we null the Ministry of the Christian world for above a thousand years upward and the Ministry of this Church to the year 1649. examined even the later Antiquity clear for this call by the testimony of Marcus Antonius de Dominis the Council of Paris anno 559 the examples of Eradius Ambrose c. Yea of Bishop Bilsone page 78 79 80 81. That patronages are abjured in the Covenant cleared against the Informer and his exception anâ—… our Churches perjury because of the use of patronages after the Covenant repelled In what sense the prelatick ordination is pleaded by us in disowning conformists of the term Curat The Informer honestly grants that it signifyes one who serves the cure though not the Minister of the place but the substitute of another page 82 83 84 85. His answer anent the charge of Perjury and reasoning anent the lawfulnesse of disowning Ministers because of Scandals who are not censured examined His reasoning found frivolous and retorted upon him page 86 87 88. his great argument from Math. 23. Anent the supposed command of hearing the Scribes and Pharisees examined Several circumstances of the sacred text offered to discover how very difficult it is to prove that there is a command of hearing them as Church officers The consequence from hearing of them though granted to the hearing of them denyed upon five grounds As also his reasoning from Simeon Anna Joseph and Mary their attending the Temple-Worship examined page 89 90 91 92 93. Mr Durham on Revel 3. pleads nothing for the Informer in this point page 94 95 96. His reasons to prove there is a command of hearing Matth. 23. as above described examined and repelled page â—…7 several answers of the Informer to our charge of intrusion and the queries that he propones thereupon as also his retorsion upon this charge examined and found vain and frivolous page 98 99 100 101 102. His answers to the doubters Argument anent the abjuration of Episcopall Ministers in the Covenant as dependent upon the hierarchy confuted His retorsion that wee were bound upon this ground to disown all the Ministers at the taking of the Covenant who had been ordained by Prelats unlesse they renounced their ordination ane empty knack reflecting on the reformed Churches justifying the popes plea against them page 103 104 105. Chap. 4 page 105 The Informers answer to the doubters Argument anent separation from a corrupt Church In what respects and how far this separation is owned His answer anent the not separating from the Churches of Corinth and Galatia and the asian Churches Rev. 2 3. Though tainted with most grosse corruptions c examined The discrepancy of our case from theirs in this point cleard in some particulars and our cause fortified from Scripture directions to these Churches page 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113. The impertinency of these instances to our case cleared from hence several wayes ibid. The Informers answer to these Scriptures 2 Cor. 6 14 15 16. 1 Cor. 5 11 2. Thess. 3 6. Rev. 1â—… 3. Examined and found contradictory to his concession anent a necessary separation from a corrupt Church when highly corrupted page 114 115 116 117. His answer to the retorted charge of Schisme upon Conformists for seperating from this Church examined and found naught He therein cuts the sinnewes of his arguing against us page 118 119 120. His answer and reasoning concerning lecturing examined God never appointed a dumb reading the Levites gave the sense of the Law c. the exceptions anent the disuse of our first Method of lecturing and the want of Circumcision and the passover for a considerable time in the Jewish Church help him not in this point page 121 122 123 124 125. Chap 5. page 126. The Informers answer and reasoning upon the point of scandal and offence in reference to the owning of Conformists considered The Informers groundlesse supposition anent the duty of hearing Conformists Our Orthodox sense of Rom 14. and 1 Cor. 8. in the point of Scandal cleard at large from the exposition of Chrysostome on the first text and Pareus on the second page 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133. The Informer upon supposition that a practice is lawfull and offence flowes from it holds that the command of the powers will loose the giver of offence from guilt and remove this liberty of the practice and the nature of offence how absurdly cleared in fyve points page 134 135 136 138. He is herein contradicted by Amesius The instances of the Brazen serpent and Gideons ephod improven against him ibid. His absurd glosse upon Acts 15 28 that the things before indifferent were made necessary by the meere determination of the Concil largely repelled Calvin classes him with the Papists herein His manifold inconsistencies observed and absurd exposition of scandalum acccptum and datum which
do destroy that distinctione Mr Gillespie Eng Pop Cerem Ames Consc Lib 5. Cap. 11. Mr Durham on Scandal part 3. Chap 1 discover the futility of his doctrine on this head page 139 140 141 142 143 144. The Doubters Argument for presbyterian Ministers preaching in the manner contraverted taken from Christ and his Apostles preaching in the fields and houses The Informers general answer anent Christs not separating people from the Synagogue weighed and found frivolous page 145 146 147. Some special reasons wherefore our Lord did not separate the people from the Synagogue ibid. The special grounds of our Lords practice offred by him to enervat our Argument considered and Answered Such as his bringing in the doctrine of the Gospell as the Messiah his being head of the whole Church page 148 149 150 151. What actions of our Lord were mitable Rules hereanent allowed by sound divines applyed to the case and practice controverted That the law allowes the gospell to be preached purely and faithfully by some though granted to the Informer will help him nothing ibid. The Informers answers and exceptions to our argument from Acts 14 19. examined His answer from the Apostles extraordinary callfrilous as also from the tendency of the rulers prohibition to silence gospell page 152 153 154 155. His reasoning upon Solomons thrusting out Abiathar from the priesthood examined as also his citation of Bezaes letter to the Non-Conformists in England Page 156 157. Chap 6. page 159. The nature of Presbyterian Ministers relation to this Church and their call to officiate therein vindicat from the Informers simple cavils Mr Rutherfoord and Mr Durhames acknowledgement that a Minister isnotmade a Catholick Minister of the Catholick Church but by his ordination restricted to a flock will not help the Informer which is cleard in six points page 159 160 161 162 His Dilemma which he offers to us viz. that our call to preach is either ordinary or extraorninary answered retorted upon him His Cavills in relationall to the Acts of Councils condemning this encroachment as he calls it and the Doctors of Aberdeen their charging Presbyterian Ministers therewith repelled ibid. His charge anent our ordaining others to perpetuat our Schisme a manifest groundlesse calumny page 163 164. His passage cited out of Mr Baxters preface to the cure of Church divisions answered page 165 as also his 5 healing advices to his half-proselyted Doubter page 65 166 167 168 169 170. Mr Baxters rules in his cure of Church divisions which he after commends unto us shortly viewed their impertinency to his purpose discovered page 171 172 173. 174. his testimonies out of the jus divinum Ministerii anglicani and of Mr Rutherfoord in his due right of Presbytery anent unwarrantable separation in sufficient to bear the weight of his conclusion The difference between the case they speake to and our case cleared in 4. Considerations page 175 176 177. His citations from the first author particularly considered and their insufficiency to bear the weight of his conclusion discovered page 178 179 180 181 The citations of Mr Rutherford particularly examined in so faâ—… relating to his scope page 182 183 184 185 186 187. In his citations from both these authors and arguing therefrom he is found inconsistent with himself to walk upon groundlesse suppositions and lyable to a manifest retorsion ibid. The Informer drawes out no conclusion upon these citations save this general one at the close viz That real much lesse supposed corruptions in the Worship or administrators will not warrand separation The impertinency of this position to help him cleard ibid. He pleads for retractions and presents at the close a character of Schisme which is retorted against him page 187 188. Chap 7. misprinted Chap 6. page 189. Animadversions upon the Informers preface and title page prefixed to this Pamphlet He pretendes conscience a design of union in this undertaking how unsoundly discovered page 189 190. 191. His Testimonies out of Zanchy and Blondel to evince their approbation of Prelacy left by him untranslated though he pretends for the advantadge of the English reader to translate all other testimonies answered A Confutation Of the First DIALOGUE Upon the point Of EPISCOPACIE Wherein it is demonstrat that the Episcopacie now existent both in its Diocesian Erastian cutt is contrare to the Scripture to the first and purer Antiquitie the Doctrine and Confessions of Reformed Churches sound Divines And the Informers Reasonings for it from Scripture Antiquitie are weighed and found wanting CHAP. I. That the Prelat now established in this Church is both Diocesian and Erastian cleared The Informer is engaged to defend both A twofold State of the Question propounded accordingly Some Arguments from Scripture against the Diocesian Prelat as a pretended Church-officer Such as 1. Perverting the Scriptural term Episcopus commune to all Pastors in appropriating it to a Prelat 2. Making it relate to Pastors which hath the flock for its immediat object 3. Invading nulling the Authority allowed unto Presbyters which is demonstrat at large 4. Impeaching Christs Kingly office as Head of his Church and the perfection of his Word in obtruding ane Officer upon the Church of a different moold from those described and allowed by him THE state of the first Question in the first Conference is whither the Episcopacie now established by Law in Scotland be warranted or condemned by the Word of God For clearing this it must be understood what that Prelacie is which is now existent and which this Author pretends is consonant to Scripture and Antiquitie As to matter of fact it is undenyable 1. That the Parliament 1662. did expresly raze Presbyterian government in all its preexistent Courts Judicatories and Privileges declaring it voide and expired 2. They did Redintegrat the Bishops to their Episcopal function presidencie in the Church power of ordination and censures and all Church discipline to be performed by them with advice only and of such of the Clergie only as they shall find they themselves being judges of knowne Loyaltie and prudence And they redintegrat them to all the pretended Privileges possessed be them in Anno 1637. What time their power was at the greatest height Since of themselves they framed the Book of Canons which doth establish their sole power and dominion over all Church Judicatories razing classical Presbyteries and Parochial Sessions and drew up the Liturgie and Book of Ordination without the least shaddow of advice from this Church Threatning even excommunication against the opposers of that course 3. It is also evident that all this Power and Authoritie of our Prelats is fountained in derived from and referable unto the Supremacie As is evident by the Act restoring Prelacie after the declaration of the Supremacie as his Majesties Commissioners in the exercise of his Ecclesiastick Government and in the administration of all their pretended spiritual Authoritie as accountable to him their Head and supreme Legislator in all
Church matters Hence it is evident that this Author is obliged if he would answer his undertaking in pleading for the present Prelacie not only to evince the warrantablenes of the Diocesian Bishop in all his pretended spiritual power over Church Judicatories But likewaves of the Erastianbishop deriving all his Authoritie from the Civil Magistrat Wee shall then befor wee come to examine his pleading upon this Head offer I. Some Arguments against our Diocesian Prelat as a pretended Church-officer and shall shew his office to be contrare to Scripture 2. As ane Erastian Prelat deryving all his spiritual power from the Magistrat I. As a pretended Church officer the Diocesian Bishop is contrare to Scripture in many respects I. In narrowing and restricting the Scripture term 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to ane office and officer distinct from and Superior to a Presbyter or Pastor For since the Spirit of God in Scripture appropriats this term to Presbyters and consequentlie the work and office therin imported Tit. 1 5 7. Act. 20 28. 1 Pet. 5 2. 3. Sure it must be ane anti-Scriptural and Sacrilegius robbing of Presbyters of their right and due designation to make this proper and peculiar to a Diocesian Bishop onlie as the Characteristick of his office Episcopal men themselves and this Author particularely doe acknowledge this term to be in Scripture applyed to Presbyters Let them then shew a reason why they have made it peculiar to a Prelat as distinct from Presbyters Or let them shew where the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 denots such ane officer as they have shappen out viz. A diocesian Prelat having sole power of ordination and jurisdiction over a wholl diocess with a negative voice and a sole decisive suffrage in the Church Judicatories thereof Should they appropriat the term Pastor or Minister to a diocesian Prelat onlie Who would not call this ane Anti-scriptural usurpation of the Presbyters due And why also shall it not be thought such ane usurpation when they appropriat the term Episcopus or Bishop to such a pretended distinct officer Since this term is as much given to Presbyters in Scripture as the terme of Pastor or Minister Judicious Calvin hath some remarkable passages to this purpose in his Comentaries On Tit 1 7. Having observed that Bishops and Presbyters are all one He calls the appropriating of the name Bishop to the Prelat a profane boldnes and ane abrogating of the holy Ghosts language Abrogato Spiritus Sansti sermone usus hominum arbitrio inductus praevaluit nomen officii quod Deus in commune omnibus dederat in unum transferri reliquis spoliatis injurium est absurdum Deinde sic pervertere Spiritus sancti linguam nimis profana audaciae est Act. 20 28. He collects the identitie of the name office of Bishop Presbiter from the elders being called Bishops And having observed the same on Philip. 1. And that after the name Bishop became peculiare to one He adds id tamen ex hominum consuetudine natum est Scripturae autoritate minime nititur Telling us that under this pretext of giving the name to one ane unlawful dominion was brought in But of this againe II. The office hereby designed doth alwayes relate to the Flock and hath them for its immediat object and Correlat as much as the word Pastor The Bishops of Ephesus were made by the holy Ghost 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 over the flock of God whom they were to feed Whereas our supposed Diocesian Episcopus or Bishop His office and inscection relates immediatly to the wholl Pastores of his diocess who are alse much his flock and the object of his oversight care direction correction and censure as the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or layetie Peter bids the Episcopountes feed the flock act the Bishops over them But our diocesian Prelat pretends to feed and rule the Pastores themselves The Scripture Bishop is Populi Pastor but the Diocesian Prelat is Pastor Pastorum Presbiter Presbiterorum And therfor is ane Antiscriptural Monster III. The Diocesian Prelat usurpes and takes from Presbiters that authoritie allowed them of God in his Word For both power of ordination and jurisdiction is soly and properlie in the Diocesian Prelat according to Episcopal men and likewise according to our Lawes As we saw above in the act anent Prelacy For according thereto the Prelat is a Superior ordinar Church officer above Presbyters he is sole as to ordination may doe it alone and assumes Presbiters onelie proforma Which no more lessens his Principalitie and Supereminencie in this pointe then a Prince in assumeing Counsellors saith Dounam Def. lib 5 Cap. 7. weakens his princely power and authoritie Presbyters exercise all their Acts of the power of order in a dependance upon him he only is the proper Pastor of the diocess as shall be afterward cleared Presbiters are but his substitutes and helpers They are likwayes Subject to him as their proper Sole judge and censurer by Ecclesiastick censures of suspension deposition excommunication the decisive power in Church judicatories is properlie his For the most unanimous Acts and conclusions of the diocesian Synod falls unders his cognisance to be ratified or Cassat at his pleasure He is the Sine quo non and hath a Negative voice in the judicatories the law allowing his Presbiters only to give him advice Nay and not that either unles he judge them of known layaltie and prudence Now in all these he usurps over Presbiters authoritie allowed them of God For I. Wee find the Scripture atributes the power of order jurisdiction equalie to all Presbiters who have both keys of doctrine discipline given them immediatlie by Christ. In that I. They are command 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Pet. 5. 28. Act. 20. 2. which comprehends the authoritie and exercise of both the keys of doctrine and discipline 2. In all commands relating to the exercise of this power ther is not the least hint of ane equalitie among them which were very cross to the Lords Scope if the Diocesian Prelats Superioritie were allowed and appointed The Presbiters or Bishops of Ephesus and those of the Churches which Peter writs unto are commanded to feed and rule jointlie equallie and with the same authoritie but non of them in dependance upon and deryving a precarious authoritie from another in feeding and ruleing 3. In all the commands relating to peoples Subjection obedience to Church Rulers in the exercise of their power their is not the least hint of disparitie among these Rulers 1 Thess. 5 12. People are commanded to obey them that labour among them and are over them in the Lord and to esteem them highly And Hebr. 13 17. They are commanded to obey them who have the rule over them and watch for their Soules but nothing of a special degrie of obedience to this supposed highest supereminent watch man is heard of in these or any
some ordinary officers were settled could no more prejudge the ordinary power and authority of these officers then the Apostles extraordinary inspection and infallible universal directive power could prejudge the Churches ordinary authority in ordination and jurisdiction The Apostles power which could not be voyded nor expyre whil they were alive being Cumulative unto but not privative of the Churches ordinary power so it is here I would ask our Informer was Pauls apostolick commission to Crete and Ephesus voyded after Bishops were set up there Nay he will not say it But did this Null the Episcopall power of Timothy and Titus over these Churches I trow not Well no more could Timothys extraordinary inspection make voyd the ordinary power of presbyters 4. We told him already that how long soever Timothy and Titus were resident there they were to doe nothing pro imperio and were not to lord it over the presbyters 5. Although elders once ordained have power to ordaine others yet the bene esse did call for the Inspection and direction of such highely gifted and extraordinary officers herein as these were And Moreover in that Infant-state of the Church Apostolick precepts and rules in reference to Church government and the exercise of both the keyes were to be delivered by these extraordinary officers consequently might call for protract their continuanc therein even after ordinary officers were ordained Infine He cannot deny but that the Apostle recalled both Timothy and Titus from these places to the further prosecution of their employment in other Churches and that their transient imployment therein is held out after their return from Ephesus and Cret as likwayes their occasionall employment in both these places which will in so farr voyd their commission in relation to them as clearly to refuâ—… the supposed episcopal ordinary charge which he alledges they exercised Next from the Authores of jus divinum Minist evangel concluding against the peoples power of ordination upon Timothy and Titus being left at these places to ordaine elders The Informer inferrs against them thus why was Timothy or Titus left to ordaine elders after some were ordained by Paul If Ministers so ordained could ordaine the rest and after some were ardained by Timothy and Titus they were left still upon that imployment I answer his inference touches not these Reverend authors in the least The ordaineing of elders in relation to the beue esse even after some elders were there and the furder directing and compleating of these Churches in their members and officers did require ane Evangelistick inspection though the ordinarie power of ordaineing remained with the ordinary elders and Church officers as the scripture doth clearly hold out Paul haveing after committed to the elders of this Church of Ephesus the whol power of government But the scripture gives not the least hint of the peoples power to ordaine but attributs this still to Church officers as proper to them So that this Inference stands good in the generall though some were converted to Christianity there yet they could not ordaine officers but Church officers were sent upon that Imployment ergo Church officers must ordaine and not the people but the speciall inference will not hold ergo Biohops must only ordaine for the reasons already given no more then from Paules ordaining the first elders it will follow ergo Paul or ane Apostle only must ordaine which is a Consequence our Informer dare not admitt else he will contradict himself It is a good consequence Paul a Church officer preached and baptized ergo none but Church officers must preach and baptize but ergo none but ane Apostle must preach and baptize is bad logick So his inference is neither logicall nor theological His 3d. Reason to prove Timothy a Bishop is taken from Pauls solemne Charge 1. Tim. 6. 13. to keep what he had commanded him till the appearing of Iesus Christ. That presbyterians particularly jus divinum Minist pag. 74. hold these Directions to be for all ages of the Church making them paralleel with Matth. 28. 20. anent Christs promised presence to the end and 1 Tim. 5. 7 21. Anent Pauls Charge to observe these things Whence he concludes that they were to have successors in their office and were not extraordinary officers since these divines say page 160. That Apostolick examples in things necessary for the good of the Church and which cary a perpetuall equiry and reason in them have the force of a rule and the Apostles setting Timothy and Titus over these Churches is ane example Apostolick for the good of the Church and hath a perpetuall reason and equitie in it Ans. 1. Wee have made it appear that no directions given to Timothy will amount to demonstrat any episcopall dominion over this Church and that he had no sole or arbitrary power either in ordination or jurisdiction consequently that the charge of keeping that which was commanded him will Import inferr no keeping of ane Episcopall charge 2. Wee have also shewed what a bad consequence it is to argue from the perpetual use of precepts or directions given to extraordinary officers in relation to extraordinary acts towards the Churches imitating of these acts and retaineing these expired functions which is palpably a non-sequitur as this man can not deny else he will swallow horrid absurdities Every thing which is for our constant use and Improvement is not likwayes for our Imitation Againe 3. I would ask this Informer if the Command 1. Tim. 6. 13. joyned with the promise Matth. 28. 20. Will not reach and include every peece of the Apostolik and evangelistik office Sure he cannot deny this and yet he acknowledges there were severall peeces of their work temporary and expyred Will he dare to say that what the apostle commanded Timothy in this Epistle was confined within Ephesus or reached him only as oversieing that Church and not in relation to his Evangilistick office throw all the Churches and that the promise Matth. 28. did not reach the most extraordinary Apostolick Acts So that himself must distinguish unless he be inconsistent with himself betwixt what is moral and extraordinary in this command and charge and accordingly reached by the promise 4. His citation from the Ius divin Minist c Cuts the throate of his cause for argueing thus against privat persons intrudeing into the ministry That the scripture layes down rules for calling men to that office they instance in the qualifications of the person Citeing 1. Tim. 3. 2 3. anent the properties of the scripture Bishop or presbyter Then they add That the Scripture directs as to the maner of his calling viz who are to ordaine how hee is to be ordained citeing 1. Tim. 4. 14. viz that the presbytery is to ordaine and ordaine by the laying on of hands adding that these directions are for all ages and citeing â—…1 Tim. 6 13 14. Now if these perpetuall directions for all ages be touching no other Bishops but
to that doctine which is according to godliness What inconsistency will the Informer shew us in this that one nation vow adherence to its owne establishment in point of reformation and Church Government and likewise vow assistance of another nation in the removal of a corruption therein tho the removall will not amount to such a compleatness of reformation at first as will be every way like unto this establishment both nations being notwithstanding oblidged respective under generall clauses to make this reformation compleat The Informer next tells us that it is doubted by the learned whither in the first Article there be any obligation to maintain presbyterian Government His first reason is because there is no express mention of presbyterian Government therin but only of our reformed religion in Doctrine Worship Discipline and Government Ans. this reason of the Seasonable case which he hath borrowed is very insignificant Our Church after long wrestling being recovered from corruptions both in Doctrine and Worship which Prelates had introduced and her Discipline and Government according to the Scripture pattern set up in Presbyteries synods and Assemblies and all the priviledges of these her courts authorized and establisht both by civill and ecclesiastick constitutions and laws will any doubt but the sceptick who will dispute that snow is not white that the discipline then reformed and establisht is in that oath sworn to be maintained He may al 's well alledge that it is not the doctrine and worship then established which we Covenant to preserve as to doubt of the government since this reformation then established takes in all the three together and in the same sense Besides his Master the Seasonable Casuist grants that there was then in Scotland no such officers as are enumerate in the 2d article but an establisht reformed government was then existent Now dare any of these new absolvers or resolvers say that it was not Presbyterian government or that this was not the sense of the imposers of that oath His 2d reason is that Independents took that Covenant and had a hand in wording that article that it might not import any particular forme of government That the words import no one forme of government but with this proviso as reformed The Seasonable case said this already to which the Apologist returned answer That the government of this Church at that time being Presbyteriall as he acknowledged there could be no other government understood then what was then existent established and reformed That to say Indendepents understood it of their government will no more reflect upon the Covenant then upon the Scripture it self which Independents do alledge will plead for their government Next I would ask this man why may not the same insignificant quirk be also objected as to the doctrine and worship viz. that only the doctrine and worship with this proviso as reformed but not the then established doctrine and worship is understood in that article and so sectaries may lurk under this generall also Thus he may alledge that no engadgement or oath in relation to his Majesties authority will binde except his name and Sirname be in it because some may entertaine a chimera of their own under his Majesties general titles Alas what ridiculous conceits are these The Doubter next objects that the English parliament who together with our Scots Commissioners imposed that oath did by the reformed government understand Presbytrie which was then settled here and that therefore we are to understand the oath in their sense who imposed it whatever Independents think He answers by denying that the English parliament understood the 1. article of Presbyterian government for then they would have thought themselves bound to reforme England according to our pattern but on the contraire in anno 1647 they toid our Commissioners that they could never finde Presbytrie necessary by any divine right and charged them with Superciliousness in judging that there is no other lawfull Church government but what they call so and with misinterpreting the article anent Church government This the Seasonable case also said before him and this hungry casuist catches up his cibum praemansum but could not see the answer returned to this in the Apology To this I say first that the Parliament of England tendered not that oath to us nor is their sense therof principally to be eyed by us as in his mould of the objection and answer he seems to suppose The parliaments of both Kingdomes imposed the oath upon their own subjects framed by the consent of both according to their own condition and exigence so that we are to look mainly to the procedour and sense of our Church and state for a discovery of the genuin sense and meaning of that oath Now it is most evident that the designe of our Church and state in framing and imposing of this oath was to establish and preserve our Church government then in being which he who denyes to have been Presbyterian in its compleat formes and courts he may deny any thing 2. We told him alreadie that whatever defection or liberty of glossing any might be guilty of yet the words and clauses of the Covenant as to that 1. article are clear and abundantly significant and will admit of no evasion And in relation to the total extirpation of prelacie out of that Church where it was existent the 2d Article is as clear and convincing And therefore whither they lookt upon themselves as oblidged to follow our pattern yea or not we have proved that they stood oblidged both by that particular enumeration in the 2 Article and also in the more generall clauses mentioned to extirpate Prelacie root and branch This man will make a meer Proteus of oaths if their sense and obligation must vary turne ambulatory or ambiguous according as men do shift or turne aside We told him of Dr Sandersons rule anent the import of the words of an oath in their genuin sense in reference to its obligation whatever liberty men may take to glosse or interpret which is the judgement of all sound Casuists 3. Dare he say that ever the parliament of England denyed that de facto Presbyterian government was compleatly established in the Church of Scotland or will he make them so irrationall as to deny this necessary consequence that therefore the 1. Article of the Covenant doth clearly oblidge this Church to its preservation as the reformed Government then existent and if his consequence cannot but be admitted surely whither they looked on themselves as oblidged to follow our pattern yea or not they held no sense of this article contrary to our own sense nor denyed our obligation to maintain our established Presbyterian Government And besides they never denyed their obligation to reforme the Church of England according to the Scripture pattern and that of the best reformed Churches in conformity to that pattern And that the Church of Scotland and other Churches where Presbyterian Government was existent were
hands thus Mr Gillesp. Misc. quest page 9. Who also cleares this from Criticks and Interpreters asserting this sense of the word He shews that where Iulius Pollux hath 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 lib. 2. cap. 4. Gualther and Wolf Sâ—…berus render it manuum extensio and that Budaeus interprets the word plebiscitum suffragium H. Stephanus manum porrigo Because he saith they did in giving votes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thence the word came to be used for scisco decerno â—…reo Iustin. Martyr Quest. Resp. ad orthod Resp. ad quest 14. distinguishes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as of a different signification Arrias Montanus in his lexicon doth interpret this word manum elevare eligere creare Magistratum per suffragia Again 2. The manner of election among the grecians clears this metaphore signification of the word Demosth. Cicero and others make this appear they had a phrase 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 omnium suffragijs obtinet and another phrase 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 no man gives a contrary vote The approving votes in chusing Grecian Magistrats in the theatre was by holding up or stretching forth of hands See page 10. 11. 12. Where this is learndly and at large made good 3. This is also made good from the ordinary method wherin the scriptures do express the setting apart of Church officers to their sacred functions which is by the Churches election and consent see 1 Cor. 16. 3. 2 Cor. 8. 19. 1 Tim. 3. 7. Acts 1. 23 26. and 13. 3. and 15. 22. And since the holy ghost doth here intend by Luke to express the manner of the establishment of Elders it is utteâ—…ly improbable that the churches suffrage should be here omitted 4. Protestant writers draw the Churches suffrage in election of Ministers from this word Magd. Cent. 1. lib. 2. cap. 6. Zanch. in 4. precept So Beza Bullinger decad 5. Serm. 4. Iunius contrav 5. lib. cap. 7. Gerard. Tom. 6. pag. 95. Danaeus 1 Tim. 5. Wallaeus in his treatise quibusnam competit vocatio pastorum Cartwright against the Rhemists objecting with our Informer That in scripture this word signifies imposition of hands answereth That its absurd to imagine that the holy Ghost by Luke speaking with the tongues of men and to their understanding should use a word in that signification in which it was never used before his time in any writter holy or profane For how could he be understood saith he if using the note and name he had fled from the signification whereto they used it therefore unless he purposed to write what none could understand or read it must needs be that as he wrote so he meant election by voices Then he proves this from Oecumenius the greek scholiast from the Greek Jgnatius and tells us there were proper words to signify the laying on of hands had the holy ghost intended this and that its absurd to thinke that Luke who straitneth himself to keep the words of the seventie Interpreters when he could have uttered things in better terms then they did should here forsake the phrase wherewith they noted the laying on of hands being most proper and natural to signify the same Next As for what he objects from Acts 10. 41. had he been sincere or diligent in this debate he might have found that the above mentioned learned Presbyterian writer with others doth here tell him first that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 used there is not the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but is as it were a preventing of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by a prior designation 2. That its atribute to God metaphoricâ—… or improperly shewing that in the council of God the Apostles were in a manner elected by voices in the trinity which he clears by that parallel Gen. 1. Let us make man Adding that this hinders no more the proper signification of the word when applyed to men then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ascribed to God can prove that there 's no change in men when they repent because there is none in God The Informers 2d answer is That Greek wri ters do ordinarly use this word to signify ordaining a person to a charge without voices and suffrages And that here it s so to be understood he proves from this that Paul and Barnabas are said to do this work exprest by this Greek word and not the people That we will not say that Paul and Barnabas elected Ministers to these Churches which were to yeeld the question That therefore our translation reads it they that is Paul and â—…arnabas ordained them elders c. they pray'd and commended them to the Lord So that it was not the action of the people but of Paul and Barnabas Ans. All this is nothing but his petio principii and what is answered already 1. That this word signifies ordinarly the ordaining of a Person to a charge without votes and suffrages is most false and contrary to the sense of the word in Greek authors contrary to the Scripture acceptation of the word to sound divines as we have heard And to this may be here added which is also the observation of the above mentioned learn'd writters that we find extraordinary Officers in the Apostles times not put into their functions without the Churches consent hence we may conclude that far less ought there to be an intrusion of ordinary Ministers without their consent Paul Silas were chosen of the whole Church to their extraordinary delegation Acts. 15. 22. Pauls company were chosen by the Church 2 Cor. 18. 19. The Commissioners of Corinth were approved by the Church 1 Cor 16. 3. Matthias an Apostle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 simul suffragiis electus est as Arrias Montanus turn's it was together chosen by suffrages viz. of the 120 Disciples 2. How prove's he that Paul and and Barnabas did this work exprest by this word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 we told him that the Syriack version understands it of the Disciples Mr Gillespy lococitato proves that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is here to be rendred ipsis not illis shewing that Pasor in the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 renders Acts 14. 23. quumque ipsis per suffragia creassent presbyteros so saith he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which he proves because the Greeks use the one word sometimes for the other as he clears from Scripture parallels So he thus senseth the verse and context the Churches of Lystra Iconium and Antioch after chusing of Elders who were also solemnly set apart with prayer and fasting were willing to let Paul and Barnabas go from them to the planting and watering of other Churches and commended them to God to open to them an effectuâ—…ll door Eph. 6 18 19. or for their saftie and preservation Luk. 23. 46. Again what inconsistency with our sense of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 will it be if all that is mentioned in the 23. verse
shall this world become if these mens faith-banishing principles be once admitted Thirdly to evince that our Prelats puppets and new pleaders are Babeâ—… true brood and builders thou mayest see how sweetly they joyn with the Papists in their glosses upon these Scirptures pleaded against them Whenc it is evident even to a demonstrative certainty that the cause of popry and prelacy are of ane inseparable affinity and stand or fall together If this mans glosses whereby he shifts off our Scripture Arguments striking at the Bishops mitre be once admitted the popes triple crown is equally shielded against the weapons of all Protestants Our learn'd Protestant divines in confuting the popish evasions do so manage their dispute as if they were directly pleading against this Informer in defending our Prelacy And who heares his glossings pleadings and answers would imagine that by some Metempsuchosis Bellarmine or Eccius were now acting the Informer to proselyt the Presbyterians to our Prelacy or a papacy rather Besides 't is clear he embarques with the Papists in his endeavour to bring in antiquity and the Churches practice as the infallible comment upon the Scripture in the Episcopall debate consequently in all debats in Theology Nay we must measure the Temple and the Altar mould our Arguments in this point of truth by Scripture standard but for the utter court of Antiquity wee leave it out for it s given to the Gentiles It s many soul principles and practices will not be gotten within the Holy Scripture verge This man in his Scripture pleadings is very sparing for a few pages measure will do it But for Antiquity ware he mets us out large and full to the great part of all the book and in this he deals honestly giving the courser stuff the larger yard In fine thou may see these men discovered beyond all their hiding pretences of love peace and unity their large spacious charity extended to the dimensions of a Metropolitans pallace hath fine entertaining rooms for Papists Quakers Arminians c. but the poor Presbyterians will scarce get such a room in it as Bishop Bonners colehouse wherein he lodged the martyrs they cry out one Presbyterian Ministers as refusing all Christian fellowship with them in worship but when shall we see them open their pulpits to our Ministers after they have banish'd them from their own flocks They viliâ—… all our differences unto meere punctilioes yet they contend about them tanquam pro aris focis and had rather all Presbyterians were harassed and persecuted even to a consuming desolation then one fringe of their Garments As Bishop Lighton call'd the points debated were cut off and let go They declame zealously in their pulpits and Pamphlets against sanguinary Principles How can these cruell men say they looke up to the God of love But now after they have drunk pretty largely for many years of Presbyterian blood and are gaping for more as fast as the bloody whore of Rome who in a great measure influences them these devout Burrio's can wipe their mouths and pretend they have peace offerings with them Mistery Babylon Mystery Prelacy What ane abysse of deceit is here In the third place thou may see that the cause wee contend for as it hath the first and pure Scripture Antiquity so the next ensuing Antiquity also and the patrociny of the purer ages and the auspiciously Harmonious consent of reformed Churches and divines So that our present Testimony is the same with that of the witnesses against the beast and our adversaries stand arranged under Antichrists banner in the whole series at least complex farrago of their principles A Diocesian Erastian Prelacy underprop't by blood and Perjury headed by a civill papacy embracing in its bosome all foul errours is a hideous Monster a bowing wall a tottering sence and lookes in face and feature so unlike to Christs bride held out and pourtrayed in Scripture and once gloriously shining in this land that no disciple of Christ no friend of the Bridegroom can mistake the one for the other So that our adversaries charge of novell heterodoxy is a new minted calumny a frighting buk bear and scar-cnow fit to fright children in knowledge to be the derision of the knowing and for nothing else Fourthly thou hast here set before thee a looking glasse representing our sin and punishment in these later dayes Wee have not suitably emproven a faithfull Ministry once our Churches crown and glory now that crown is falling apace how many stars hath the dragon cast from heaven to earth Wee have not not studied personall reformation while publick Nationall reformation was owned therefore the holy Jealous God hath given us up to an avowed disouning of that reformation Wee endeavoured not while Gods candle shin'd upon our tabernacle to get our case discovered and search'd our hearts sprinkled from an evill Conscience therefore most of us are given up to Conscience Wasting sins We have not drawn with joy from our wells of salvation while they were open and running in a plenty of powerfull pure ordinances now God hath suffered Philistines to stop these Wells and while wee endeavour to dig them again such are the counter endeavours of this man and his fellowes by their pleading and practices that they are called Ezek and Sitna strife and contention Wee are like to dig and strive long ere wee get the well called Rehoboth and faithfull Ambassadours of Christ shall find their old rooms again in the house of God Wee â—…ave not keept up a due impression of the 〈◊〉 â—…lidging force of our National solemne Covenants with God who of us have endeavoured to perform our vowes to God therein Therefore God hath given most of us up to a palpable disowning and shamelesse renunciation and abjuration of these great and sacred Oaths Wee hid our selves from discoveries of our practical breaches and many whorish departings from God pointed at by our faithfull Seers now he hath given us up to a legall avowed departing The accursed thing which was before secretly with us is now pleaded for disputed for by pretended Seers and wathmen even the remnanm have dealt treacherously with God therefore he hath given them up to treacherous dealers who have dealt very treacherously with them Wee were wearied of reformation wearied of God and said to our faithfull seers see not prophecy not right things but deceits get you out of the way cause the holy one of Israel to cease from before us Ourwhorish hearts lusted after a sinfull liberty and Egypts flesh-pots neither were wee throughly â—…ged from our old sins our iniquities of 〈◊〉 Therefore God hath answered us 〈◊〉 cording to the Idols of our heart anâ—… hath said to us after wee have set up ouâ—… Calves go to Bethel transgresse at Giâ—… gall c. He hath given us our desire and sent leannesse into our soul. Our noble Vine because so dreadfully degenerat is now whithered and wasted plukt up in fury planted in the wildernesse
and fire going out of it self to devour its own fruit This is a lamentation and shall be for a lamentation Fiftly Thou mayest in the perusal of this reply discover somthing also of light arising in darknesse the strength and solidity of our principles demonstrate in the plain and easy repulse of these assalliants The indigested chattered congeries of their new notions do appear but meer vanity a deceitfull nothing when levelled against these great truths which wee contend for notwithstanding of all their clamorous boasting as the threatning billowes having made a waterish battery upon the rock fall off again in empty froath so that we may see it accompliâ—… of our cause and principles which 〈◊〉 Jobs hope as to the issue of his troubles â—…en they are tryed they come forth as â—…ld And our adversaries light empty â—…akets cannot by thousands of degrees counterpoise them when both are laid together in the even Scripture Ballances Truth under all stroakes Virescit Vulnere the bruising of it by dispures diffuses it scent and makes it as the breaking of that Alabaster box did the oyntment the more fragrant Thus our holy wise God brings meat out of the eater it s the Priviledge of Truth in relation to perverse disputes against it which was promised to Zion when enemies were gathered together that it doth arise thresh them The Horns of this honourable cause are found horns of Iron and its hooves brasse it can thresh as it hath done before even the mountains For what are they before Zerubbabel and sift and fann themas dust This is a signal token for good in the dark and cloudy day that these great truths which are now become the Shibboleth the speciall object of our Testimony and adherence thereunto the charaâ—… stick of the Lambs followers are coâ—… firmed and shining in a heart engadâ—… ing beauty if we hold fast this Testimoâ—… wee are sure to come off victorious to gâ—… the white stone the new name If wee quit and cast off this fortifying girdle of Truth we will succumb and be written in the dust not among the living in Jerusalem For the manner and Method of this reply it will I suppose be found very suitable to the scope The language is plain and accommodat to polemicks which do reject all extravagant ornaments of speech The Informers Arguments are proposed vivida vegeta ad amissim oft times verbatim and nothing of seeming strength or nerves in his reasoning declined but fully weighed and examined The Presbyterian Arguments which he hath disguised are presented and offered in their genuine strength and fully improven against him Wherin this trifler is called to the orders and his tergiversation check't and made appear The state of every one of these questions is likewayes proposed and Arguments drawen â—…th thereupon which do abundantly â—…tify the Presbyterian cause and Princiâ—…s and in a great measure obviat all his Exceptions and this in the beginning of every Dialogue before any formall encounter with him So that if any shall endeavour again to underprop this tottering wall and to draw this saw back again they must be tyed to the same Methode weighing all that is offered in the sound ballances of Scripture and reason and not in such a faint superficiall dispute-deserting Methode as the Answer to the Dialogues betwixt the Conformist and Non-conformists hath been plyed with whose replyer doth but like the dogs at Nilus leape here there superficially thus measuring out the dimensions of the whole book with litle or nothing of a formall encounter with the Answerer his Arguments and reasons Some things there are that do require a litle touch of Apology if any quarrel the prolixity 't is easily granted that a sufficient answer might have been contracted into far lesse bounds yet as every writers head or hand is not so skilful as to put ane Iliad into a nut so every reaâ—… hath not the tooth to crack that nut maâ—… row is nauseating rather then nourishing to many stomaks And as the stronger coâ—… densed light of the Sun whither in its direct or refracted beams hurts weaker eyes so all eyes are not for the small print of the Laconick stile nor can every judgement readily digest too much epitomized arguings especially in such subjects wherein the spissitude and variety of the matter requires a more dilated stile and method The fair stating of these great points now the axletree about which our religious differences are turn'd the giving of light unto them by solid Arguments may well bear the charge of some little paines in reading in order to satisfaction therein and the man is a wretched miser who would bâ—… scant as to the affording of time and diligence in this endeavour If any desiderat a more particular Examen of the Testimonies of the Fathers and some other Authors cited by the Informer there are several grounds which may take off this exception First since upon both sides it is professedly agreed at the scripture is the only judge in this â—…bate and since both parties now conâ—…nding as also the fathers themselves and all sound Christians have professed to subscribe ane absolute appeal to this judge in matters of religion whatever deviations from this rule and profession this man and his fellowes are guilty of in their arguings and pleadings especially in this point matters I say standing thus in this debate among professed Protestants who are disputing from scripture certainly a critical scanning of or litigiouscon test about the sense ofevery humanewriter they must in their principles acknowledge to be but a digladiation de lana capâ—…ina a spending of money for that which is not bread When any disputant hath with much critical travel among the fathers brought home their suffrage to his cause or by the same diligence taken it out of an adversaryes hand as it were with his sword and this bow what is all the victory a humane testimony brought to fortify a divine truth which was before strong and impregnable in its own light and authority and a testimony apt to a wiredâ—… by a subtiler Critick to a different or contrary sense Next the scriptures decision in this debat being as it is hoped convincingly made appear and the chief testimonies of fathers for our cause vindicated against this adversary no rational or ingenuous reader will judge it expedient after the scripture decision is made appear and the testimonies of eminent fathers also and the adversaryes contrary humane testimonyes as to the main dispelled to pursue every stragling citation Thirdly 't is evinced that as upon the one hand all his testimonyes upon the point of Prelacy though admitted do but amount to demonstrat the factum which is not the question and not all the Ius which only is so upon the other hand they are as far short of reaching any patrociny to the present Diocesian Erastian Prelat as the Pigmees arme is to fetch down Ulysses helmet Now what superfluous wast of time
Civil papacie the grossest of usurpations which the Church can be exposed unto as shall be afterward touched Finally This will inferr that Children Heathens yea women may be chieff Church officers and heads of the Church too since they may possesse the Crown of these Kingdoms to which this Headship and Supremacy is annexed But of this also againe 3. This Erastian government is a gross encroachment upon Christs prerogative over his Church And that in these wayes 1. In assumeing a power over the Church which is proper to Christ only I mean a Magisterial architectonick power That this is assumed by this Erastian mould of government is evident He who can dispose of government and governoures of the Church arbitrarly and dispose of all Church meetings and Church maters as he pleases and thinks fitt Hath certanly this power but that this Magisterial architectonick power and dominion over the Church is Christs Sole prerogative is abundantly clear by manifold plaine positive Scripture assertions To Christ is all power given in Heaven and Earth Matth. 28. 18. And he as Mediator is given to be head over all things to the Church Ephes. 1. 21 22. To hâ—…m is all judgement over her committed John 5. 22. Hee it is also who possesses these high tittles to be the Governoure over his Church by way of eminencie Matth. 2. 6. That great shepherd of the sheep Hebr. 13. 20. the shepherd and Bishop of Soules 1. Pet. 2. 25. Hee is that one Master over all Church officers who are but Brethren Matth. 23. 8 10. To us there is but One Lord Iesus 1. Cor. 8. 6. Hee it is to whom onely the imperiall acts of power are ascribed as the giving of lawes to his Church the gospel precepts are his law Gal. 6. 2. Hee it is who gave commandments to his Apostles Act. 1. 2. there is but one law giver who can save and destroy Jam. 4. 12. The Lord is our judge the Lord is our lawgiver or Statute maker the Lord is our King I say 33 22. He it is who Constitutes her ordinances preaching of the word Matth. 10. 7. 1. Cor. 1. 17. administration of the Sacraments as of baptisme John 1. 33. the Lords Supper 1. Cor. 11. 20. dispensing of Censures Matth. 16. 29. Hee it is who appointes his Officers Prophets Pastores Teachers Ephes. 4. 11 12. 1. Cor. 12 28. In his name onely all ordinances are dispensed Not in the name of Magistrats or of any Mortall The Apostles spake and taught in the name of Jesus Act. 4. 17 18. In his name we are to Ask Joh. 14. 13 14. In his name onely Ministers are to preach and baptize Matth. 28. 18 19. 2. Cor. 5. 20. In his name onely they are to Censure to deliver to Satan 1 Cor. 5. 4. In his name only Church assemblies are to be gathered which seems the Smallest Act. Matth. 18 20. See jus divinum Regim Eccles Appollon Revius c. 2. This Erastian government incroaches upon Christs prerogatives In taking and using the Keys against Christs donation and authoritie Christ is the only Lord giver of both the Keys and all their power But in this Usurped power the Kevs are 1. Divyded against his prescription who gave both the Keys of Doctrine and Discipline joyntly to the proper recipients theâ—…of viz. Church officers Matth. 16. 19. This Erastian government â—…ches away One Key viz. of government from such to whom Christ the great Master of the House hath Intrusted both Christ in this donation of the Keys making no mention of the Civil Rulers but only of Church Officers then appointed who were distinct from the Magistrat Hence 2. The Key of disciplin is taken and used against his mynde by these to whom he hath not Intrusted it which is a great encroachement upon his authoritie In the 3d. place this Erastian government encroaches upon Christs authoritie over his Church In superadding Ane officer to theseChurch officers institut and appointed by him For in all the Scripture rolls of Christs Church officers the Civil Rulers are not found Eph. 4. 10 11. 1. Cor. 12. 28. Rom. 6. 7 8. 4. This encroachment appeares in making Church officers as such imediatly subject to the Magistrat in all their Spirituall administration which is a hie Censure of the Primitive exercise of this power independantly as we shal shew 5 In exeeming him from all Spiritual subjection unto and censure by Church Rulers For where â—…pray shal we find the Magistrat excepted and the hiâ—…herCivil powers if within the Church from Christs lawes and rules anent subjection to Church censures and to his Spiritual office bearers intrusted therewith CHAP. VI. Erastianism denyes the compleat constitution of the Apostolick Church in point of Government Removes the Scriptur Land-markes set to distinguish the Civil and Ecclesiastick Powers which is cleared in several points It is lyable to great absurdities IN the 4th place This Erastian Government presumes to impeach the primitive Apostolick Church her compleat constitution and faithfulness of Administration in relation to Government and makes here to have had but a defective maimed constitution and authority thereanent while the exercise of the civil power in her was wanting Which charges a gross deficiency upon Christs prescriptions in relation to her Lawes and Officers Which are found in Scripture very full and suited to her state and condition in all times until all the Elect be made up and here warfare is accomplished and consequently it impeaches Christs saithfulness and authority as Mediatour whose proper work this holy constitution is 5. This Erastian Prelacy takes away all the Scripture Landmarks and Limits which are fixed therien by God to distinguish the Civil and Ecclesiastick Powers and Governments and makes them every way the same in all things wherein Scripture and Reason do distinguish them both as to their Nature and Acts and likewayes as to their Causes 1. As to their Nature this Erastian Government doth confound them 1. In that it makes the Church and Commonwealth the Political and Ecclesiastical Societies one and the same which are formally distinct It being a visible profession that make a Church member and outward habitation and subjection to the civil power that makes a Subject Which may be where there is no profession and consequently no Church-membership For in this mould the Kings Government Civil is Church Government for it is his Government as King in which capacity this Ecclesiastick Supremacy is his prerogative and his Ecclesiastick Government is also Civil Government for it is his Government as the Supream Civil Magistrat And thus the Church respected by his government is the Common-wealth vice versa 2. This confounds the Officers of Church and State which the Scriptur doth aboundantly distinguish For as is said The Church had all her Officers of Christs appointment when no Magistrat was a Member thereof and on the other hand Common-wealths had all their civil Rulers before they became Churches But in this Erastian
he that cannot distinguish this from accnstant official medling as a civil Iudge and constituent Member in civil Indicatories is very blinde And as stupid that man were who could not distinguish this from the privat domestick care mentioned 1 Tim. 5 8. Which is a part of that Eiconomie founded uonp the Law of nature and competent to a Minister as a Master of the Family who is to govern and rule his house under that notion Yet we must here tell him that Gods allowing the Minister his honorarium or maintenance is for this very end that he may not by any overstretch of the domestick case be taken off from his holy imployment Here we shall offer to this Informers grave judgment the Reasons of the Assembly 1638. Sess 25. against the civil Offices of Ministers 1. Christs notable example Luk. 12 14. Refusing to deal in a civil cause Ministers are his Ambassadours sent by him as he was by the Father Joh. 20 21. Joh. 8. He would not sentence that woman who deserved death 2. Civil Rule is discharged to Apostles Matth. 20 v. 25 26. not only Supreme which is competent to Princes but subordinat also Citing that passage of Bernard to Eugenius Lib 2. Apostolis interdicitur dominatus ergo tu tihi usurpare aude aut dominans Apostolatum aut Apostolicus dominatum Dominion is discharged to Apostles Go thou therefore and dare to usurp to thy self whither the Apostleship if holding a civil dominion or being Apostolick a civil dominion Where theyrefute the ordinary Episcopal Popish evasion as to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 3. That Ministers having given up their names to this holy warfare they ought not to be involved in things of this life as the law denyes this to souldiers C. d. Lib 2. T it 13 So the Apostolick law 2 Tim. 2 04. This work tobe heavier then that any man can be sufficient for it alone 2 Cor. 2 16. Hence Ministers are called watchmen labourers souldiers fishers c. 4. The Apostles for all their extraordinarie gifts were not fit for serving tables and preaching the word both Act 6. although these were both ecclesiastick functiones therefore farr lesse can any Minister now assume both ecclesiastick and civil offices Gregorie the 1. cited by Gratianin Decreto dist 89 Cap. Singula proves that two ecclesiastick offices are not to be committed to one from that place of the Apostle Rom. 12 6 7. As it is unbeseeming that in mans bodie one member should Act the part of another The 6th of the Canons called Apostolick appoints that the Bishop or Presbyter assuming civil places be deposed which will make fearfull Massâ—…cre among our Prelats that day the Parliament rides so Can. 81 and 83. Cyprian lib 1 Epist. 9. sayes that long before It was appointed in a Councel of Bishopes that none appoint in his Testament one of the Clergie a Tutor or Curator Quando singuli divino sacerdotio honorati non nisi altari sacrificiis precibus orationi vacare debent Since every one honoured with the divine priesthood ought not to attend but to the Altar and Sacrifices to prayer and preaching for it s written no man that warrs c. Clemens the 1. whom many make Bishop of Rome and out of whose writings the defect of ecclesiastick history after the Actes of the Apostles they affirme must be made up in the Epistle to James the brother of the Lord whom they make a Bishop hath these words neque judicem aut cognitorem secularium negotiorum te ordinare vult Christus ne praefocatus presentibus hominum curis non possis verbo Dei vacare secundum veritatis regulam secernere bonos a malis impietatis tibi crimen est neglectis verbi Dei studiis sollicitudines suscipere seculares That is neither will Christ ordaine thee a judge and arbiter of civill affaires lest being involved in the present cares of men thou be not able to attend the word of God and according to the rule of verity to separat the good from the evill It blotts thee with the Crime of impietie to take up secular cares neglecting the Studjes of the word of God Synesius Bishop of Ptolemais cited by lipsius in politicis said that it is unlawfull to joyne the Civill power with the priesthood-nam hoc esset miscere non miscenda hoc est Sacris civiliaconfuâ—…dere For this were to mix together things which cannot be mixed that is to confound Civill maters with Sacred See severall others cited by the assembly and recorded in the Historiamotuum pag. 283 284. Where there is ane Answer to the objection drawen from Augustins practise and from that of 1. Cor. 6. 4. The informer comes nixt page 5. to his defence of the Episcopall office it self But still goes on in the mist of confused generalls never condescending upon the nature power and extent of the diocesian Bishopes office as it is now established by law However let us remember that our present prelat is according to our law Ane ordinary Church officer assuming the government of some Hundereds of Congregations as monopolized in him and conveyed according to his pleasur unto the Ministers therof Having sole power in ordination and jurisdiction and a negative voice in Church judicatories whose proper worke is Ruleing only not feeding by doctrine This is the Bishop which all his pleading must be commensurat unto else He but beats the Air. 1. The Doubter alleages The unlawfullnes of the Episcopall office for want of ane expresse warrand for it in the word To which He answers By granting that this will prove it to be not simply necessare but not unlawfall since it may be lawfull and expedient as falling under some generall as the command of decencie and order will warr and a Moderator and Clerke although this be no where commanded That many learned men have thought prelacie lawfull though not commanded nor warranted by any particular Scripture precedent nor yet prohibited but left to Christian prudence at it is found expedient and conduceing to the good of the Church To which I answer 1. He grosly mistaks the Import of these relatives a command and the necessitie of a thing flowing therefrom when restricting it to ane expresse warrand or command there being many things necessarie necessitate precepti which have no expresse warrand or command Divines doe tell us that Scripture commands are either immediat or mediat the immediat are either explicit or in expresse terms enjoyning a thing as honour thy father and thy mother or implicit holding out either that which is comprehended in the command as suetable midses leading to the dueties enjoyned or deduced by consequence from what is expressed As Ministers preaching is deduced by consequence from the command thereanent which the Apostles gotâ—… the Circumstances of the command pointing out this to be a perpetuall duetie of Church officers Againe 2. There are divine commands which are mediat
flock as this man himself pleads both these grounds hold out their equality among themselves and inferrs a discharge of inequality This Informers likewayes would remarke that the Spirit of God here commands Presbyters to act the Bishopes thus indentifying the Bishop and Prisbyter but without Lording it over Gods heritage the prohibition not to Lord it is remarkably joyned with the command to Act the Bishop And referring their office to the flock he must confess the Apostle acknowledged no Bishops whose inspection was over Pastours themselves Thus we see hisanswer to the Argument against Prelacy from this Text is contrare unto the scope and sense of the Words yea and inconsistent with it self CHAP. X. The Informers answers to our Argument from Act. 20. and from Tit. 1 5 7. Philip. 1 1. Ephes. 4 11. For the identitie of Bishop Presbyter win nowed the insufficiencie and inconsistencie thereof together with his begging of the question discovered and these texts at some length improven against him THE Doubter in the nixt place objects That in the new Testament Bishop and Presbyter signifie one and the same office bearer that in Act. 20 the elders in the 17. v. are called Bishops in the 28. v. So in Tit. 1 5 7. And therefor Bishop and elder are the same in Scriptur and the word elder signifies no more then a Minister of a particular Congregation Heer he touches a parte but not the strength of our argument from these texts We argue not meerly from the Samenes of the Names but the identitie of all the essentiales of the office Duties and Qualifications of the office bearer expressed by these names when applyed to ane ordinarie office bearer Particularly f. om Act. 20. We draw forth these weapons 1. The Apostle speaking to the elders tells them that the holy ghost had made them Bishopes over the flock shewing that the Scriptur Bishop set up by the holy ghost is the Minister or elder who feeds and rules over the flock 2. The Apostle gives them not only the Name of Bishop but also the thing commanding these elders or Ministers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which takes in all the power of order and jurisdiction and whatever the Diocesian Bishop may pretend unto 3. Which is very remarbable he gives this Charge so these elders befor Timothy who was now present with the Apostle and after the first Epistle was written to him for it was writtin when Paul was at Macedonia and after this Paul haveing Timothy with him came to Miletum and gave the elders of Ephesus this charge Finallie This was Pauls last charge to them for they were never to see his face more So that we have here a pattern of the mould of the Gospel-Church in relation to Government as this great Apostle of the Gentiles left it and consequentlie as all the rest left it which is convinceingly apparent by comparing this with the parallel 1 Pet. 5. compared with 2 Pet. 1 14. Hence we exterminat the Diocefian Prelat thus 1. The Holy Ghosts Bishops were Ministers which he set up to feed and rule the flock immediatly These and these only the Apostle and the Apostolick Church knew therefore he dissownes the Prelat who pretends to be set over some hundreds of Pastoures and flocks and is bound to feed no flocke himself 2. These who watch over the flocks immediatly and only have all the Episcopal power both the key of doctrine and Government committed to them by the holy Ghost Therefore the Diocesian Prelat taking and arrogating to himself the sole power of ordination and jurisdiction and leaving Presbyters nothing but the Doctrinal key as his deputies while he himself preaches to no flock is ane Antiscriptural Sacrilegious robber 3. The elders or Pastoures of Ephesus got all Episcopal authority as to order and jurisdiction committed to them by Paul as the Holy ghosts Bishops the highest ordinarie officers of that Church in the presence of Timothie without the least hint of any interest that Timothie had in or over them as their Bishope or Overseer therein or the least hint of any direction anent their dutie to Timothie as in that Capacitie and this after he had gotten all his directions in the 1. Epistle written to him And therefore Timothie was never set up as a Diocesian Prelat over that Church as this Informer would perswade and the inspection which he is supposed to have in that Epistle was occasional transient and extraordinarie and by conseguence layes no ground for Prelacie Finallie Paules directions here were his last and farewel directions therefore this Church was to continue thus governed by these elders or Bishops in common and the Prelatists Plea that the Apostles set up Presbyters at first keeping the reyns of Government in their own hands till towardes the end of their life and then sett up Prelats over these Presbyters is here convict of falshood since neither Paul nor Peter the great Apostle of the Gentiles or the great Apostle of the Circumcision doe in the least hint any such Super-institution but both of them in their last directions to the Churches commit the wholl power both of order and jurisdiction to the Pastoures of the flocks in common as the only Bishops set up by the Holy Ghost From 1 Tim. 1 5 7. The great Argument is not only from the promiscuouse use of the Name Bishop Presbyter but from the forme and mould of the Apostles reasoning which inferres not onely the identitie of names but of the office also For the Apostle shewing Titus how the elders are to be qualified gives this reasone for a Bishop must he blameles This 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or causal For expressing the knot and connexion of the Apostles argument or reason doth clearly Import that the office expressed by both these words is one and the same for there is neither sound matter or forme in such reasoning as this Presbiters must be so and so qualified because a Bishop of a Superior order and degree must be so qualified So that from hence it is evident that the elder is the Bishop vice versa and that no higher Bishopes were by the Apostles constitut in the Churches Here then as in the preceeding text we have not only Bishops and elders getting the same designation by the Holyghost who knew best the nature of the things themselves and how to express himself thereanent but likewayes the same qualifications work and office and so the office is supposed to be every way one and the same Now let us hear what he sayes to the argument He grants that the two words oftentimes doe point out one and the same officer but denyes that the officer meaned by these words is never understood above the degree of ane ordinarie Minister Or that the word Presbiter or elder signifies only the Minister of a single Congregation no more The insufficiencie and prevarication of which answer euidently appears
him Besids will any say that the Deacons joyned with these Bishops in the period of this verse were not at Philippi or belonging to that Church but with Paul But they are mean men and their credit needed not to be saved by such a conceit as this All the fear of that Father was â—…east these Bishops at Philippi be found meer Presbyters of that Church And how to ward off this blow hoc opus hic labor ese Well what further answers he He tells us nixt That others think they were Bishops of theChurches about conveened at Philippie which Paul knowing of salutes them with the Church Since he first salutes the Saints as intending mainely to write to them and then the Bishops So wee see the Prelatists saile every point of the compasse to save the credit of these Bishops If Bishops cannot be gotten sett beside the chaire with Paul when addressing the Epistle this gloss standing clearely antipod to the Text the nixt shift is rather then these Bishops be degraded to meer Presbyters to send for some other Bishops to Philippi at this tyme of Paules Writing that this casual Mustere of Bishops of other Churches may warde off the deadly blow which the cause will gett by seating all these Bishops at Philippie as officers of that Chuch and to compass this designe they must be but occasionally saluted here and not as fixed members or officers thereof upon the Apostles Information comeing to late to his ears from our Informer and his fellows that there were several Magnates there besides the ordinary Presbyters at Philippi But which also odd they must become so humble as to fall behind the Saints the persons mainely written to Had our Informer left out this clause which notwithstanding his answer did require Our Prelats Parliaments order Who are before because behind the most would have saved their reputation still But many of the Ancients are more ingenuous Thodoret confesses that Presbyters are here understood because their could not be many Bishops in one-city on Philip. 1. Oecumenius on Philip. 1. Tells us That we are not so to understand it as if there were many Bishops in one citty but that the Apostle calls the Presbyters Bishops Chrisost. ibid. acknowledges That they were Presbyters who were called thus because the names were then common and the Bishop himself was called Deacon and that the distinction of names came afterward This conjecture is sib to that other shift to take off the strength of our argument from Act. 20. viz. That these Elders were not Church Officers of Ephesus onely but the Bishops of all Asia mett together at Ephesus and sent for by Paul from thence least if the Episcopal authority be found seated in these Elders of Ephesus at Pauls last farewel it breake the Diocesian Prelat all in peeces But as it is well replyed that since Paul sent to Ephesus for the Elders of the Church it is a groundless conjecture to call them any other Elders then of that Church to which he sent and that there is no hint in the text of any other Elders there at that time So this fancie is as fond when applyed to this passage and may receave the same reply What shaddow of proof can be produced that therewere any other Officers there at this time then the Bishops or Ministers of this Church And what Logick I pray or sense is there in this inference that because the Apostle first salutes all the Saints or the Church collective in bulke and then the Church Officers Bishops and Deacons or the Church representative in special that therefore he salutes these Church Officers as casually there and not as Officers of that Church Beside had the Apostle saluted them as casually present they would have been saluted with every Saint in Christ Chap. 4 21. rather then in the inscription The English Annotations thus sense it That by the Bishops and Deacons we are to understand the whole Ministery at Philippi consisting of Presbyters to whom the government of the Church was committed and Deacons who not only had the care of the poor but also assisted the Ministers in their Ecclesiastick function But our Informer hath a third Answer wherein He grants that these Bishops and Deacons were Officers of this Church and askes where were the ruling Elders here and if we say they are included in the word Bishop then he tells us that upon better ground he can affirme that Bishops here signifies both the superiour Bishop and the ordinary Minister who may be called Bishop as well as Epaphroditus is called ane Apostle Answ. 1. Our Argument from this place and such like beside the Scriptures silence as to the Diocesian Bishop is That the Scripture Bishop doth therein stand so described and qualified that it is impossibe to understand him of any other officer then a meer Presbyter which is most manifast here It being impossible that a multiplicity of Bishopes could be at Philippi as is universally acknowledged And if he grant that these Bishops were officers of that Church in Philippi he must either say they were meer Preebyters which is all wee seek and the yeelding of his cause or he must prove that either here or els where the word Episcopus or Bishop designes the diocesian Bishop and place a multiplicity of such Bishops here against the old Cannons particularly that of Nice But 2. As to what he sayes of the ruleing elders it is utterly impertinent and answered already We proved the ruling elders office as distinct from the preaching elder by clear Scripture grounds and did shew that the Scripture points out two sorts of elders giving them both this generall name of elder then distinguishing them into such as rule and such as labour in the word and doctrine But this Informer will never prove that Episcopus or Bishop designes two sorts of Pastors a higher and a lower or that there is any difference of degrees in the pastoral office So that he cannot include here his Superior imaginarie Bishop of whose office the Scripture is utterly silent As we may the elder in the Bishop And till he make the Diocessian Prelat appear in Scripture we must still hold that when Ministers are called Bishops they get the proper specifick designation and characteristick of their office are not called â—…o in a general figurative sense or Catachrestice as Epaphroditus is called the Philippians Apostle or messenger But how viz. their messenger sent to Paul who ministered to his wants Phil. 2 25. So 2 Cor. 8. v. 23. Titus and others are called the Apostles and messengers of the Corinthianes viz as it is there inumar in that bussines of the collection for the Saincts at Jerusalem for which end they were sent to the Corinthians So the Spirit of God in Scripture both in holding out the distince office of Apostle properly so called for I hope our Informer will not upon this ground make different degrees of Apostles as he doth of Pastors
and likewayes in the very manner of these designations and their circumstances when atribut to such inferiour officers doth state the distinction betwixt them and ane Apostle in his proper acception clearly holding out that they had neither name nor thing of the apostolick office properly so called but that Ministers are so improperly only called Bishops He will never prove But now what is his last shift It maybe saith he their were no Bishops settled as yet at Philippie so it may very well be But our Informer here supposes two things in Question which he will prove ad calendas graecas 1. That their were Bishops superiour in office degree to Presbyters appointedby the Apostles The first and second Answer tells us of Bishops he means diocesian Bishops either with Paul when he wrot to Philippi Or come from their diocesses forsooth and present accidentally there And haveing told us that the diocesian Bishops were among the rest of the Presbyters Bishops in his third answer His last shift is that they were not it may be yet sett up at Philippy But remark that as all these proteus like shifts and answers contradicts one another So they all lean upon this Egyptian reed that the Diocesian Bishop is ane officer divinely appointed and then existant Now how impertinent dealing this is let any judge We prove from this and many such like texts that the scripture Bishop is a meer presbyter they in all there answers doe coyne glosses of these Texts which doe suppose the Jus existence of the diocesian prelat which is the very quaesitum the thing in Question 2. He supposes that the Bishop over presbyters the Chimaera of his own braine though he was not settled at this tyme yet was to be Settled afterward at Philippi But how proves he that the Apostle was to setle after ward such a prelat there This is another of their shifts that the Apostles first sett up prebyters keeping still the government of the Churches in their oun hand till at last towards their end they sett up prelats committing the government to them But how doth he or they prove this after-institution of the diocesian Bishop we have already abundantly evinced the Contrary both that the presbyters were the highest ordinary officers established by the Apostles that without any such fancied reserve as this is the wholl power both of order jurisdiction was committed to them exercised by them supposed by the Apostles to continow so in their last farewelles to the Churches and therfor may conclude that the Bishops of Philippi were meer presbyters and that Paul acknowledged knew no other Arnold in his Lux in Tinebr on Act. 20. 17. He called the elders c. represents the Orthodox opinion thus Episcopos Presbyteros c. That Bishops and Presbyters are not names of diverse gifts in the Church but of one and the same office because they who are here called Presbyters verse 28. are called Bishops The Papists object saith he as this Informer that in these times the names were common but yet the office of Bishops and Presbyters diverse he answers 1. This is to affirme not to prove 2. When offices are distinct there also the names are diverse 3. there was one office both of Bishops and Presbyters viz. the office of teaching 4. Upon the Papists supposition there can and ought to be only one Bishop in one city but so it is that there were here many therefore Bishops signifie Presbyters Thus Arnold classes our Informer among the Papists in this point and represents our principles as the Orthodox principles of the Protestant Churches and so in several other passages as we may after shew Chamier de Oecum Pontif lib. 10. cap. 3. Haveing represented the Papists glosses upon Matth. 20 -25 the Kings of the Gentils c. the same with our Informers viz. That our Lord discharged only that sort of Tyrannical Domination haveing answered and confuted them as we heard Iunius and Whittaker did before and haveing prefixed to the 7. chap. this cirle An jure divino c. Whether the Bishop be greater than the Presbyter by divine right he represents the affirmative answer as Bellarmins together with his arguments and confuts them and haveing proved Presbyters power in ordination from their imposeing of hands upon Timothy he afterward confuts the Papists this Informers pretences for Prelacy from the Government of the jewish Church the Apostles Superiority to the seventy disciples and adducing Bellarmin's argument from this passage act 20 28. to prove that the Holy Ghost sett up Bishops he answers thus locus exactis alienus est c. that place of the acts is impertinently cited for from thence it is evident that Bishops and Presbyters are the same Witnes Ierom. and others for they whom Luke before called elders or Presbyters of the Church those Paul afterward affirmes to have been made Bishops by the Spirit and indeed for feeding and as the latine Interpreter for governing the Church So we see Chamier classeth also our Informer among the Papists in those his prelatick principles and glosses upon those Scriptures Calvin upon Tit. 1 7. Collects the identity of Bishop and Presbyter from the Apostle's calling them Bishops who were before called Presbyters and as we heard above reprehends upon this ground the distinction placed betwixt them as profane and anti-scriptural The same he inferrs upon Act. 20. where the Presbyters of Ephesus are called Bishops makeing our Informer's great topick anent the calling of such Ministers Bishops qui primas tenebant in singulis civitatibus or had a precedency in every city a corruption and sin of those times The Dutch annot on Act. 20 28. observe that those termed Bishops in this verse being called elders in the 17. verse it doth then appear that in the Holy Scripture there is no difference made betwixt elders and Bishops referring us to Phil. 1. 1. verse upon whch passage they assert the same thing and especially from the plurality of such Bishops in one and the same Church conclude this referring us to 1 Tim. 3. 1. verse and Tit. 1 chap. 5 7 v. upon which places they obserue that by Bishops and Elders one kinde of Ministry is signified viz. the labourers in the word and doctrine citeing 1 Tim. 5 17. 2 Pet. 5 1 2. and from the Apostles description of the Bishop in the 1 Tim. 3. they conclude that by Bishop we are to understand all teachers of the Church without difference referring again to the forementioned places The english annot expresse the same sense of these places under debate and upon Acts 11. 30 v. adduce both fathers and councells to prove this point The Nixt Scripture argument which the Doubter bings against prelacie and the Last too is taken from Ephes. 4. 11. where the Apostle reckons up Church officers makes no mention of Bishops Our argument from the Scripture enumeration of Church officers here and
who knowes what the office and relation of a parent master and Minister is and that this phrase importes this precept enjoynes the duties proper to such relations and offices So the case is here which none will doubt of but this Informer who starts needles doubts when he cannot answer his presbyterian Doubter 2. The Deacons office haveing in Scripture its limites drawn the circumstances of the place where the word Diaconia stands discovers when we are to take it in a generall sense and when this inferiour officer is pointed out So it were absurd when Archippus is bidden fullfill his Ministery or when the Apostle calls himself a Minister to imagine that the proper formall office of Deacon is ascribed to the one or the other But the service there meaned is ane Apostolicall and Pastorall service not the service of Tables Now fulfill or make full proofe of thy Ministery as our Translatores doe weill render it giveing the deacon a peculiar Inglish terme according to the greek sound of the word to avoide confusion is exigeticall the Ministery he is to fulfill is his Evangelistick Ministery the latter expounds the former so that in the very phrase it self the evangelistick office is asserted and the deaconship denyed The phrafe of Evangelist especially the workof ane Evangelist determins his peculiar office there being no other Evangelists in the scripture sense but either those that wrote or published the gospell in that extraordinary way and Timothy being clearly one of such it must needs import the Evangelist in a peculiar sense and is distinct from the generall phrase of Ministery in the latter branch of the words which stands limited and restricted by the first part as Isaid Again since he includes in the generall terme Episeopus his diocesian Bishop as distinct from a presbyter in philip 1. and Act. 20. Wee may with farr better evidence take in the peculiar evangelist here the office properly taken being both a scripture office and likewayes so clearly applicable to the person to whom this precept is given non of which he can say in his case Moreover I wonder whither he would admitt this his gloss if this phrase were directed to a Pastour as it is here to Timothy doe the worke of a Pastour make full proofe of thy Ministery would he think this a good argument or reason to deny him to be a Pastour because the latter branch of the sentence expresses a deaconship Sure he would not or had the Apostie expressed the first branch of the precept thus doe the worke of a â—…ishop would he have taken this answer from us that Timothy might be as well proved a deacon from that place Sure he would here tel us that thâ—… fiâ—… râ—…trictive phrase determines the subsequent generall one and that different offices may well share in generall names 3. The phrase of doeing the worke of ane Evangelist if we compare scripture with it self will appear upon Two grounds to import a peculiar Evangelist 1. Such a sense must needs be admitted in paralleel phrases where the Syntax and construction is like â—…o this As the signes of ane Apostle 2 Cor. 12 12. commands of Apostles 2 Pet. 3 2 foundation of Apostles Ephes 2 20. who will deny but that the word Apostle is here peculiarly designeing the office why not also the workeof aneEvangelist especially it being his scope to stirr up Timothy to diligence from the consideration of the office and others to the greater reverence of him 2 The terme of Evangilist occuring only thrice in the new Testament viz Act. 21. 8 Ephes 4. 11. and in this place under debate since the first Two places doe â—…yond all question speak oâ—… the Evangelist in a strict and proper sense hâ—… I pray why doth it change its signification here Extraordinary functions communicats with inferiour offices in the general names as when the Apostles are called pres byters in a general designatione but extraordinary names are not made use of to point at ordinary functions at least when the office is so distinctly pointed at as in this place 4. He stumbleth yet againe here into a materiall contradiction whil telling us That Timothy was ane evangelist in a large sense that is One who proached the Gospel which he contradistinguishes from ane Evangelist in a strict sense denying Timothy to be such and that strictly termed Evangelist had it for his work to preach and spread the Gospell as he seems to insinuat in the close of his answer if at least he mean it of his strictly called evangelist for his way of expressing it is very indistinct But however he will not say that Timothy was no otherwayes ane Evangelist then in the sense wherein any ordinary Minister is such And if he understand him to be ane Evangelist as haveing a more large unfixed or universal office of preaching the gospel with extraordinary gifts and as coajutor of the Apostles as Hooker himself together with Eusebius do take it as being thus contradistinct from writers of the Gospel how comes he onely to acknowleâ—… hâ—… ane Evangelist in a general sense as a preacher of the Gospel simply I would know what this Informer calls ane Evangelist in a strict sense sure he will not say that it is meerly preaching the Gospel which makes up this office for that he makes the large sense is it preaching and spreading the gospell with extraordinary gifts ad unfixedly as he seems to insinuat by making this the proper worke of ane Evangelist then surely he will not deny but this was Timothy's worke and so he must be ane Evangelist in the strict sense against what he first asserts He acknowledges the ordinary Evangelists or preachers were to preach and spread the Gospell within their Sphere and so the strict Evangelist must be distinguished from them by unfixed preaching and spreading the Gospell which besides what is mentioned will bring a new inconvenienc upon our Informer and dash him against his principle of fixing Timothy Bishop of Ephesus Yet againe though Philip preached the Gospell upon the dispersion and spread it unfixedly yet he denyes him to be one of these extraordinary Evangelists whose office was to cease So that he doth as to this distinguish preaching and spreading the Gospell from the proper worke and characteristick of the Evangelist strictly taken Thus it is hard to know what he calls ane Evangelist or how he understands it For neither will he admitt power in ordination and jurisdiction to be ane ingredient in this office and thus it is neither fixed nor unfixed preaching or government either that with him will make up this office properly taken if we consider the whole structure of his reasoning 5. As for what he sayes of philip That it will not follow he was ane extraordinary Evangelist though termed ane Evangelist since he was a Deacon I answer that Philip was not ane Evangelist properly so called is by him poorly and
were adressed to a Moderator would that infer his Authoritie over the Synod Nay since a Presbytry laid on hand 's upon Timothy himself Since the Presbyters of this Church of Ephesus had the Episcopal power in Common committed to them as the Holy Ghosts Bishops Since the Corinth-Presbytery did excommunicat the incestuous we may clearly infer that these directions though immediatly addressed to Timothy yet belonged to Presbyters of that and Other Churches as well as him 2. Supposing that this adress will give him a speciall Interest herein yet how will the Informer prove that it respects Timothy any other way and in any other Capacity then of ane Euangelist which he sayes it might be he yet was and not a Bishop He dissallowes not of Gerards opinion who sayes that he was not yet made Bishop Now if these Rules were to be observed by him and this his supposed singular Authority exercised as ane Evangelist whose office was to cease It will plead nothing for the Episcopal power Surely upon our supposition that he was a fellow-helper and assistant of Paul in his Apostolik function and had a transient occasional Imployment here as is clearely held out in the Text these rules are very suitable unto him in that capacity Besids these Directions are for instruction of every man of God or Minister in point of Church-Government 2. Tim. 3 16. 1 Tim. 4. 6 But doth not give them Episopal power Or will he say that every man hath the formal office or place in the nature whereof he is instructed The dedication of a book to a man anent rules of kingly Government will not make the man or suppose him either King or Governour In the 3d. place As to these Directions themselves particularly as to Timothies direction as to laying on of hands 't is Answered that laying on of hands in ordination is found in Scripture a Presbyterial Acte competent to meer Presbyters which as I said they exercised upon Timothy himself though Paul was present 1 Tim 4 14. 2 Tim. 1. 5. And therefor Timothy could have no single or Episcopal authority therein in Churches Constitute So that the precept directs Presbyters as well as him in that point Nay this addressed direction mainly respected them as the proper subject of this power and the Presbytery received their lesson here not to lay on hands suddenly rather then Timothy Nixt As for his Authority and directions anent rebuking and Censures I answ That neither can this be Timothy's sole prerogative for either it is meaned of a Privat rebuke and this every Christian hath authority in Thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour and not suffer sin upon him Levit. 19 17. Prov. 9 8. Or of a ministerial rebuke and this is competent to every Minister of the word Isa. 58 1. 2 Tim. 41 2. Tiâ—… 1 13. 2 Sam. 12 8. And besides Institutions and reproofs of Church officers will not prove a fixed Episcopal power Prophets rebuked but had no jurisdiction over Priests nor Paul over Peter though he reproved him As for that which he particularly mentions about receiving ane accusation against ane Elder It is answered That this also belongs to the official juridical power of Elders since Ruling Government attribute to them in Scripture doth necessarily import ane authority to receive accusations and correct delinquents by reproofs and censures Matth. 8 16. 17. There is ane accusation to be delated ecclesiae to the Church or the juridical Court not to one Prelat as is above cleared and therefore the direction anent the receiving of the accusation respects them who were to judge upon it and not the Prelat Compare this with 1 Cor. 5 4 5. The Presbyters must meet together to rebuke the Incestuous there and they that are Spiritual must restore the delinquent Gal. 6 1. The Church officers or Ministers of Thessalonica must note and admonish authoritatively the disobedient Brother 2 Thess. 3 14 15. To which I may add that as upon the one hand Timothy is forbidden to rebuke ane elder and positively enjoyned doubly to honour them when faithful So the receiving ane accusation is no more then that which every privat Christian and Minister is capable of even against the superiour whither in state or age in relation to admonition Counsel or Comfort accordingly Levit. 19 17. Gal. 6 1 2 Joh. 10 11. None in whatever capacity are exeemed from this precept not to receive accusations lightly Hence the 4th Council of Carthage cited by Blond Apol. Sect. 4 enacted That no Bishop should hear ane accusation without the Clergie and that without their assent the sentence should be voyd where was the negative voyce here Whittaker thus answers the Popish pleading upon this text and our Informers too controv 4. Quest. 1. Cap. 2. That Timothy is commanded not rashly to receive ane accusation proves not that he had dominion over Elders which according to the Apostles minde is to bring a crime to the Church to bring the guilty into judgement openly to reprove which not only superiors may doe but also equals and inferiors In the Roman Republick the Kings did not only judge the people but also the Senators and patricii and certainly it seems not that Timothy had such a â—…sistory and Court as was afterward appointed to Bishops in the Church what this authority was may be understood by that which followes those that sin rebuke before all which equals also may doe Thus bishops heretofore if any elder or Bishop had ane ill report referred it to the eeclesiastick Senat or Synod and condemned him if he seemed worthy by a publick judgement that is did either suspend excommunicat or remove him the Bishop condemneing nocent elders or deacons not by his authority alone but with the judgment of the Church and clergie in case of appeals even to the Metropolitan he could doe nothing without the Synod what they did was ratified The same is the answer of Bucer de vt usu Sacr. Minister Willet Sinops Papis Contr. 5 Ques 3 part 3 In the appeudix Eucer de Gub. pag. 300. to 398. The Informer tells us in the next place that these directions concern after ages and are of ordinary use and therefore they cannot be extraordinary officers in these Acts that in calling Timothy and Titus extraordinary officers in these Acts we lead the way to their errour who call ordination and jurisdiction extraordinary Answ. As we have proved that none of these directions will infer in Timothy ane Episcopal Power properly such but that any power he had above Presbyters was by his special Evangelistick Legation so the concernment of after ages in these directions and their being of constant use is a pitiful argument to prove the continuanc of the power in that manner Are not all the old Testament precepts anent the antiquated ceremonies all the acts directions given to extraordinary officers both under the Old and New Testament of perpetual
his argument is that one is named though many are spoken to and where many Presbyters are supposed to be as at Ephesus who threfore must needs be a Bishop but this ground will not hold good Because 1. This is no more then what is suitable unto the stile of this book which is by mistick visional representations to include many individuals as one singular So all the individuals of the Church both members and officers are represented by one candlestick and why not also all the Ministers by one angel which is a terme that of it self and in this place imports no jurisdiction properly but is immediatly referred to the qualities of Ministers above expressed 2. This is also suitable to the stile of this book as it is epistolar the addresse may be to one but it will give no Authority to that one over the rest no more then ane addresse from the King to a speaker of the Parliament will give to that person jurisdiction and authority over them Or then our Lords saying to Peter only expressly not to the rest of his fellow disciples I will give unto thee the keyes c. Will conclude that he was Prince or primat over the Apostles and that they had not equal authority with him in the use of the keyes Our Informer and his fellows here doe justifie the Papists pleading for the Pope 3. This is suitable unto Scripture prophetick writings and to this book as such to represent many individuals by one singular The four beasts and twentie four Elders are not four individuall persons or twentie four single Elders The singular names of Woman Beast Whoor Dragon signifie a collection of many individuales So the one Spirit of God is called the seven Spirits in the 1 Chap With reference to his manifold operations Dan. 8 20. One Ram signifies many Kings of the Medes and Persians He that will not hearken to the Priest Deutr. 17 12. That is the Priests in the plurall So the Priests lips should keep knowledge and the Law is to be sought at his mouth Mal. 2 7. That is the Priests Blessed is that servant whom his Lord c. that is those servants Particularly as to this term Angel It is said Psal. 34. That the Angel of the Lord encamps about the Godly that is many Angels 4. It is suitable to Scripture and to this book To represent ane indefinet number by a definit Thus all Judas Adversaries are represented by the four hoâ—…es Zachr 1 18. All the Godly and the ungodly are represented by the five wise and the five foolish Virgines Matth. 25. and in the 8. Chap of this book The Seven Angels standing befor God represent all the Angels Foâ—… in the 7 Chap Mention is made of all the Angels who doe thus stand So we are to understand with the same indefinitnes ofttimes the Septenary number as the Seven pillars which wisdom hewes out Prov. 2. The seven Pastours or shepherds Mic. 5. The Seven eyes Zachr 3. And in this very book the Seven condlesticks Lamps and vials Revel 4 5 15 5. As wee find the scripture and this same Apostle first naming a multitud and then contracting it into a singular as 2 Joh. 2. many deceavers are come into the world then this is a deceaver and ane Antichrist And sometimes the individual in one sentence turned into a multitud as 1. Tim. 2 15 Shee shall be saved that is the woman bearing Children if they abide in faith and Charity that is such women in General as Beza tells us all writers doe take it So it is as certain that this single Angel is turned into many in one and the same Epistle in this book and spoken to in the plural as when it is said Revel 2. 24. to you and to the rest in Thyatira and in Revel 2 10. we find John changing in one sentence the singular Angel into a multitude fear none of these things which thow shal suffer Behold the devil shal cast some of you into prison that yee may be tryed c. as in 2 â—…oh 2 He changes many into One Finaly Wee have proved that the Scripture allowes of no Angels Standing-Church officers or Bishops above the Pastours or Presbyters who have in Scripture the whol Episcopall power given them So that whatever this Informer shall produce as the Characteristick of this Angel we find it applicable to Presbyters 1. Is it the work of this Angel to preach and baptize This Commission he will grant belongs to all Pastours 2. Is it the power of ordination The Scripture shewes us that this is Seated in a Presbytery 1. Tim. 4 14. with Act. 22 5. Luk. 22 66. Matth. 18 17. Or 3. Is it the ruling Governeing power Surely all Ministers are such Angels All that watch for the peoples soules have a joynt rule over them Hebr. 13. 17. And therefor none can challenge it solely to himself In the Church of Thessalonica the laboures in the word and doctrine joytlie and indiscriminatim fed joyntlie censured and admonished and were joyntly the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or Rulers to whom consequently the people were indiscriminatim or with out any difference of one of them from another to submitt themselves 1 Thess. 5. 12. There was therefore no sole Angel or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and ruler but this Prostasia or ruleing power was in many So was it with the Church of Ephesus Act. 20. So with these elders or Bishops 1. Pet 5. And we offer to this or any mans serious thoughts whither it be suiteable to divine rules to cross so many clear Scriptures upon the ground of a metaphorial mistick expression and to expone them in that sense rather then to explaine the Metaphor and mistick expression by plaine Scriptures And whiâ—…her it be not more suiteable to understand the Angel of Ephesus of the Ministers to whom in a plaine Scripture the whole Government is found intrusted rather then to expound that plaine text Act. 20 by a Metaphor and contrary to that plain text to set up one Angel or Diocesian Bishop over that Church with sole power of ordination and jurisdiction But the Doubter objects what have been saying viz That the Angel is to be taken collectively and not for one single person but for all the Ministers To which in a peece of petulant folly he Answers That he hath oft wondered at this reply that it seems this Scripture pinches us sore when we flie to such a shift That Scultetus a learned Protestant affirms that the most learned interpreters understand the Angel thus and that without offering violence to the Text it cannot be otherwayes understood Ans. 1. We hope is evident from what is said that the most native scriptural acception is to take the Angel collectively To which we may adde that although the Lord Jesus the best interpreter of these Angels doth expound the Seven candlsticks to be the Seven Churches yet in expounding the Seven Starrs he losses the number of
episcopus or Bishop is variously used by the ancients And that our present Lord-prelats can receave no Pratrociny from Bishops of the first ages wherein Presbyters governed by common Council and had a decisive sufferage in Government whereas the Prelats now are beyond what their predecessors had come unto even in Ieroms time For then except ordination the Bishop did nothing beyond what the Presbyter might doe whereas our present Prelats are sole both in ordination and Jurisdiction and assume a negative voice in Church Judicatories Yea a decisive suffrage in Parliament which he dare not say that any of these Bishops did ever pretend unto Well But if we shall say that Ierom speaks of the first introduction of Bishops into the Church then he tells us Ierom must understand it of the Apostles times What means he by the first introduction of Bishops Can he give the least shaddow of reason for it that Ierom speakes of any other introduction then that introduction of human custom which he distinguishes from the divine appointment of Presbyterian paritie But how proves he That Ierom maks Bishopes to have been introduced in the times of the Apostles yet I must tell him by the way that introduceing them in the times of the Apostles is one thing by the Apostles is anotherthing Diotrephes sought his primacy in Iohns time but was disowned by him therin So that if we can prove that what jerom cites for the parity of Bishops Presbyters jure divino will conclud the point these Bishops are in themselves in jeroms judgement condemned by the Apostles his 1. Reason is That jerom makes the thing which gave occasion to this Introducing of Bishops to be the peoples saying Iam of Paul and I of Apollo and this was the Schism spoken of I Cor. I. But this notion of Saravia and others he might have found long since answered Ieromes scop is evidently to prove that by Scripture warrand Bishop and Presbyter are all one wich he clears by many Scripture Testimonyes even to Iohns time and therefore he could not be so brutish as to make this Schism at Corinth the occasion of the Change so long before Johns Testimony yea before Paules farewell Sermon to the Elders of Ephesus from which he drawes another of his proofes But he speakes of a human Custom comeing in Paulatim postea peece and peece and by degres long after these times and but alludes unto that Division I Cor. I. Expressing it in the Apostles words not of their times for the Apostles never appointed this prelatik excrescent power of Bishops over Presbyters as a remedy of Schisme among all their prescriptions of the Cure of this evill Rom. 16. 7. I Cor. 3 3. 11 18. Moreover famous whietaker will tell him that this remedie is worse then the disease The mistery of iniquity was then working the Apostles therefore would not lay a step under Anti-Christs foot to get in to his Chair Besides these factions in religion were not at Corinth onlie Iunius de cler Cap. 15. not 16. will Informe him that jerom asserts not that it was said at Corinth I am of Paul c. But among the people c. malum non Corinthi solum c. It was a Publick evill Paul himself prescrybed no such remedy saith he unto the Corinthians and afterward Not. 17. Jerom saith after it was said among the people he saith not that this human Prostasia began at that tyme viz of the schism but after that time Compare it with Wittaker de pont Q. 1. c. 3. Sect 29. he saith not it was decreed by the Apostles that one Presbyter should be set over the rest this he sayes was by the Churches Castome not the Apostles decree Then he adds Ierom viz Let the Bishops know that it is rather by Custome then the divine appointment that they are set over Presbyters Had the Apostles changed the first order and set Bishops over Presbyters and forbidden the Churches to be governed by the Cammon Council of Presbyters truly that had been the Lords appointment because proceeding from the Apostles of Christ unless we will ascrib to Custom not to divine appointment what they decreed But the Apostles being alive there was nothing changed in that order for this Epistle was written when Paul was in Mac donia c. Let our Informer read this learned author who at large will cure his error in this poynt if it be not incurable Wheras he adds That Ieromâ—… comment upon Tit. I. Imports only his opinion anent the Community of names of Bishop and Presbyter not of their office at that time I beseech him what will this say to Ieromes scope which is to prove Presbyters superiority to Deacons for the deacons name was in a generall sense attribut both to Apostles and to the Evangelist Timothey as himself pleads Besides what signifies Ieroms in ferenc from all his Citations viz That Bishops had not their superiority over Presbiters by divine appointment If only a communitie of names was his proofe from these texts The Informers 2 Reason to prove that Ierom makes Bishops to be introduced in the times of the Apostles is That had the decree wich Ierome speaks of been after the Apostles it would have been extant in antiquity where and in what Council it took place but this is not found Ans Ierome by toto orbe decretum or prospiciente concilio cannot mean any formal Council either in the Apostles times or afterward But the meaning is that when through the world it was said among the people I am of Paul c. It was decreed among the people or in and among particular Churches through the whole word that is distrâ—…butively though all places of the world not representatively in any aecumenick Council of the whole world Decreed through the whole word is all one with Decreed by the whole world which is distributily to be taken Ieroms words convince this for the Councils decree representing the world would be all at once but Ierom sayes this Chance came not in Simul Semel but paulatim ly degrees And that the Prostasia came in by Custome which points at a graduall comeing in Besides the Apostles changing the first mould of government to prevent Scism will say they made themselves wiser then the Lord. His 3 Reason is That this will suppose the worlds universal defection from the Apostolick Government against which there is no footstep of a Testimony Ans. we We have seen as he cannot deny as great and more sudden changes of the divine institutions exemplified in Scripture and that ane universall defection hath been through the Christian world from both the Apostolick Doctrine and Government he will not deny and many Testimonies there might have been against this though they have not come to our hands He knowes how our divines answer such a Question of the Papists as to the beginnings of their Corruptions and their universall spread Moreover this mistery of Iniquity and
did they relapse after deliverances both in the times of the Kings and of the judges yea and after solemne vowes of Reformation How quickly after Hezekias death did they turne aside How quickly after Josiahs death How quickly after Solomons death did Rehoboam forsake the law of God and all Israell with him I think these scripture instances of as universal far greater defections then this was anent the proestos might have made this man ashamed to bring this as ane absurditie Now what will he say to his own Question here I it possible is it probable that Gods Israell could be ignorant of his minde and adventure so quickly to change his ordinances Heard not all the Churche of Israel Gods voice from mount Sinai Had not these departers afterward known or seen his eminent seers heard his word and seen his works Could they be altogether ignorant of his minde who thus suddenly departed from him How could they then adventure to make such a change Alace What a poor querist is this I think indeed He and his party have given the Instance in our generation that such a sudden defectione is both possible and probable Was ever a nation more solemnlie and universallie ingaged unto God and had seen more of his greatnes power and glorie then wee did in the late worke of reformation How long is it since Scotland not onely knew and imbraced Presbyterian Government but also solemnlie vowed to mantaine it But he knowes how universally this work and cause of God is now rejected his Covenant abjured and disowned And the Informer himself who for what I know might have seen our first beautifull house is pleading for this perjurius change of Gods ordinances and lawes and breaking his everlasting Covenant Read he never the 106. Psal. 7. vers They provocked him at the sea even the red sea and vers 11. The waters covered their enemies and there was not one of them left Then believed they his words they sang his praise they soon frogat his works they waited not fr his counsell The Informer bluntly supposes ane impossibility of a peoples crossing light in apostazing changes and that all that generation most needs give a formall consent to this change of government in order to its introduction both which are groundless suppositions and they render this horne of his Dilemma very pointlesse Besides this change as we said before was but small at the first onelie a fixed Moderator and far from his Prelacy which even in Ieroms time was but come the length of taking from Presbyters ordination or rather the rituall part of it And the change had plausible pretexts of order and union as every innovation hath its own pretences besides that this change was not all at once but by degrees Wee must also here tell him that the same very suggestion is his 3d. Reason to prove Ieroms bringing in Bishops in the Apostles time and so a nauseating repitition But if we decline this absurdity the next he thinks is worse viz That that generation went over the belly of light in changing the Government and conspired against Christ and his Apostles Government and none are found testifying against it Answer 1. This absurdity doth like wayes fall upon the former Scripture instances of greater and more sudden and as universal defections of the Church of Israel What will he say to these questions in relation thereunto Were all ignorant Did all sin against light and adventure presumptuously to change the divine ordinances And as for a Testimony against these evills the Informer himself and his party for all their clamoures against us falls under ane obligation to answer this in relation to many corruptions and erroures which as early creept into the Church as Prelacy Wherof we gave Instances already and no Testimonies are recorded against them He seems to have forgot or to be ignorant of our divines answer to this argument of Papists calling for our producing of Testimonies against such and such evills or dating their first rise viz. That there might be tho we have not known them and that it is bad arguing from the defect of the History or the darknes of the first original of such a corruption to deny the plaine mater of fact and the corruption itself to be such How many Thousand eminent persons and acts of these times which we told him the learned doe acknowledge to be very dark as to matter of fact have never come to our knowledge And since we have often told him from Ierom that this change was lent and by considerable degrees and intervalles of time and Method of its procedor some might be overtaken with weaknes others puffed up with ambition and upon this ground the one might endeavour the other give way to this change especially its first degrees being small in respect of what followed Knowes not this man that the evill one sowes his tares while men sleep And this hierarchie being as in its nature so in its rise a Mystery Mystery of Iniquity Mystery Babylon Yea and a Mystery which was working long before this change even in Pauls time upon all these grounds his absurdity evanishes and reflects a greater absurdity upon himself who would have us shut our eyes against Scripture light upon such pretences as these rather embrace 2 corruption contrary unto it then acknowledge that the Church did erre We know very well what a wicket this notion hath opened for obtruding and retaining popish innovations and these men are fast warping in to that Method As for that which he adds of Blondel p. 94 who asserts that the Presbyters made him proestos or fixed Moderator who was first ordained Wee told him already that this fixed president tho a deviation from the Scripture rule yet is farre from the diocesian Prelats sole power in ordination and Jurisdiction So that his confidence some will be apt to say impudence is strange in calling this a power episcopall now existent since notwithstanding all its after growth it was not in Ieromes time come the length of our present Hierachical power of Prelats by many dayes journey Neither is it probable that Blondel could suppose this to be allowed of John which he holds to be crosse to the divine pattern As for Blond Apol pag 25. the Informer hath been mistaken in this citation no such words being found in that place But in page 52. after that he hath abundantly proven this thesis initio Presbyter Episcopus synonyma fuerunt that in the beginning Bishop and Presbyter were one and the same he begins the next sect thus Ubicumque Primum nascente Chistianismo Presbyterorum aggregari Collegium caepit Antiquissimum rectius Antiquissimo inter Collegas Primatus Contigit ut concessus totius Caput fratrumque tandem 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 jure quodam 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fieret Which onely a mounts to thus much that first a moderator among ministers being established grew by peecmeal to a
he adds that it is irrationall to say we are bound to it in the sense of the Church and State of Scotland because they were but a part of the Imposers and the least Part. Ans. I told him already that in relation to the engadgers in Scotland they were the proper imposers the authority of the respective rulers of both nations in relation to their own subjects being first and immediately to be lookt unto and their sense scope therein to be mainly eyed and each Nation being properly and immediatly judges as to their own national end in this stipulation Thinks this man that the then representatives of Church and State did eye any other end as to Scotland then the preservation of the reformation in Doctrine Discipline Worship and Government as at that time therein establisht Moreover the sense and scope of the article it self being convincingly inclusive of Presbyterian Government it can admit of no other glosse without manifest distortion and frustration of the imposers designe therein Next he tells us that suppose Presbytery were meant in the 1 Article yet the 2d will admitt some episcopacie What poor stuffe is this Suppose the Article of extirpation relating only to England and Ireland would comport with some episcopacie which the Informer hath not yet proved what hath that to do with Scotland Or how can that enervate our engadgement to preserve the reformation as then establisht in Doctrine Worship Discipline and Government Because in relation to the extirpating of Englands Prelacy after the reformation in Scotland is compleated and sworn to we are to bear with the English Church in some remaines of Prelacy till God give further light must we therfor be oblidged or allowed according to the sense and scope of this Oath to corrupt or raze the Fabrick of that establisht reformation and bring in again prelacy into that Church out of which it had been totally eradicate Nay this is too dull inadvertancie As for what he adds that Presbytery is not inconsistent with any kinde of prelacie I answer that the presbytery establisht and sworn to be maintained in Scotland is and Beza is so farre from disowning this that as we heard he exhorteth John Knox to keep that Church and house of God clean of prelacy as he loved the simplicity of the Gospel CHAP. IV. The grounds upon which the Informer undertakes to prove that the obligation of the Covenant ceaseth although its oblidging force for the time past were supposed examined at large As also his reasoning upon Numb 30. Wherein his begging of the question his contradicting of Dr Sanderson and other Casuists and manifold inconsistencies are made appear OUR Informer having spent his Master pieces and the cheife products of his invention or rather of those who have gone before him upon this difficult task of reconciling the Covenant to Prelacy doth next as a liberall bold disputer undertake to loose the Covenant even upon supposall of its pre-existent obligation against it And therefore making his Doubter tell him that he bears off the acknowledgement of anyobligation against episcopacie either in the national or solemne league lest he fall under the charge of perjurie In answer to this he will suppose that episcopacy is abjured in both Covenants and yet undertake to defend that they arenot perjured who now submit to prelacie The Doubter thinks this strange Doctrine and so do I. Because to swear against episcopacie and yet acknowledge it is to do contrary to their Oath To this doubt he returns a large resolution but still follows up the Seasonable case closs for fear of miscarrying And first he begins with a threefold partition either prelacy saith he is an unalterable necessary Government of divine or Apostolick warrand or it is sinfull and contrary to the Apostolick Government or thirdly of a middle nature neither commanded nor forbidden but left to Christian prudence as found expedient to be used or not Here I must stope him a little and minde the reader that we did upon the first Dialogue disprove this indifferent Proteus-Prelacie as a monster to Scripture since the Scripture condescending so far as to its institution of officers ordinances Lawes censures and as we heard himself acknowledge setting down all substantialls of Church Government prelacie must of necessity be either consonant or dissonant therunto and by consequence necessary or finfull commanded or forbidden So that he is to be limited to the first two and any supposal anent the indifferencie of presacy is but his petitio prnicipii and the gratification of his adversary for further clearing of this question now proceed we If it be the Apostolick Government derived from their times to all ages of the Church he hopes we will grant that no Oath oblidges against it This I willingly grant to him but what then Why we must not cry out perjurie till what he hath offered on this head be solidly answered Let this bargaine stand I hope I have made his Scripturae pretences appear to be vaine and proven the contrariety of that prelacie now established both to the Scripture and pure antiquity and till he hath answered what is offered upon this point we may impute perjury to him by his own acknowledgment What next what if it be sinfull Then he sayes we need not plead the Covenant obligation No may we not plead the Covenant obligation against Schisme heresie and profanness May not the Oath of alledgance be pleaded against treason because before this Oath treason is a sin Said he not already that the Baptismall vow is a superadded obligation though the matter it self doth binde did not the Oath and Covenant Neh. 8. containe an abjuration of many sins against which the people stood before preoblidged But he adds its true a supervenient Oath makes the obligation the stronger Right why then may not we plead that which makes it stronger Especially against this man and his fellows who have such a mighty faculty of resolving and absolving all S Peters fetters Sure they had need of Double nets who would catch a Proteus Then he tell us That the ablest champions for Presbytrie dar not assert episcopacie to be unlawfull What champions are these that prove it to be contrary to Scripture and yet dar not assert it to be unlawfull Sure they are very faint disputants We heard that Beza whom our Informer will sure call a champion for Presbytery called episcopacy diaâ—…olicall and the egg out of which Antichrist was hatched Was not that near the march of calling it unlawfull But how will he now absolve us Why it must be indifferent neither lawfull nor unlawful and then the question is with him if we could by our own Oath make it absolutely and in every case unlawfull so that we can never after submit unto it He adds that we are mistaken if we think that an Oath against a thing indifferent will in every case bind Here I shall only tell him that since all his resolving skill
fundation other prayers according to every ones occasion Agustine epist. 121. tells us that liberum est It s free to ask what was in the Lords prayer alijs atque alijs modis some times one way somtimes another Likewise Justin Martyr Apol. 2. tells us that he who Instructed the people pray'd according to his ability 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 We might also tell him of Bishop Andrews success or rather disappointment in seeking an old Jewish Liturgie which when sent to Cambridge to be translated was found to be composed long after the Jews rejection so the Bishop being asham'd suffered this notion to die and the Liturgie never saw the light See Smectim and Didoclav pag. 615 16 17 18 19. seq 2. What consequence is this that because we disowne a Schismatick party of Innovators introducing these corruptions mentioned Ergo we disowne them as no Churches wherein these have been admitted Must we bring in or comply with every corruption once purged out the retaining wherof may be consistent with the essence of a true Church what consequence or reason is here Again doth not he and all his brethren stand in direct opposition to the order and government of the Presbyterian Church of this Nation and unto all that own 's the same will he then admit this consequence that he unchurches her before prelacie came in and other reform'd Churches govern'd Presbyterially So we see himself must acknowledge this his reasoning naught The Doubter alledges that these things mention'd are of later date then the Apostles To this he answers that Bishops were from the Apostles time The contrary wherof we have proved either as to diocesan or Erastian Bishops such as he means yea even a proestos which in the Apostolick age had no place as we have made appear Next He tells us that Polycrates in the debate about keeping of Esther with Victor Bishop of Rome alledged Iohns authority But how proved he this is the Question not what he alledged surely bare alledging as in other cases so specially in divinity is bad probation Then he asks if we will hence infer that they were no good christians who used these things suppose that they came in after the Apostles times I answer we thinke that in so far as innovating they were not Sound Christians and so must he thinke unless he will be wise above what the Apostles have written Then he tells us that from Rom. 14. It appears that albeit some thought he should say understood and knew that by their Christian liberty they were fred from the ceremoniall Law and therefore made no distinction of dayes or meats yet Paul enjoyn'd them to bear with the weak to account them brethren and not despise them and the weak were not to Iudge the strong Ans. 1. How proves he that the points in controversy viz. prelacie laying aside our vows and Covenants Erastianism liturgies and festival-dayes for mystical ends and uses are such nothings or indifferent matters as meats or dayes were at that time wherin pro re nata the Church might use her liberty As for diocesan Erastian prelacy we have made its antiscriptural complexion to appear so that it is not within the compass of any Lawfull liberty of the Church to embrace or establish it We have also made the binding force of the Covenants appear and that the laying aside of them consequently is a horrid guiltyness which this liberty can never be extended unto Likewise the liturgies and imposing of set formes of prayer and adstricting publick Worship therunto have been sufficiently impugned from Scripture and divine reason by several of the godly learned and discovered to impeach the spiritual liberty of Gospel Worship The holy dayes also have with the same evidence been impugned by our divines who have proven that they do impinge upon our Christian liberty are contrary to the fouth command enjoyning worke all the six dayes except on such occasionall fasts and feasts as are held out in the word likewise are reprobate by the New Testament prohibitions about superstitious observation of dayes The Jewish dayes being abrogat as the Informer cannot but grant how dare we impose upon our selves a new yoke If it were here pertinent to dilate upon these points our principles herein might be abundantly fortifyed and the truth cleard to his conviction and by consequence the impertinency of this parallel argument and his pityful pâ—… 1. 10 principii in equiparating the points now controvered with these things which are the object of Christian liberty The Informers gives us nothing here but magisterial dictates Again that tolerance which the Apostle speaks of as to dayes and meats relates to that time and case only of the weak Jews when the ceremonies tho dead were not yet buryed as they were to be honourably especially while the temple of Jerusalem stood and the legal worship therein by Gods providence was continued But as these observances were ever discharged to the Gentiles except as to blood and things strangled for that exigence only of the weak Jews so after when christian liberty was known and this particular exigence was over and the ceremonies buried It is within the liberty of no Church to unbury them or tolerat these or such like observances in others Finally this very text condemns him tho his begged supposition were granted For 1. The eater must not despise him that eats not why then do Conformists pursue Nonconformists with such grievous punishment and Lawes they not only despise but persecute to the death and vilely reproach them who art thou that judgest another mans servant why then do they Judge censure Nonconformists so highly in their pulpits and pamphlets and the Informer in this as Schismaticks of as deep a dye as ever the Church was infested with 2. He that but Doubts is damned if he eat saith the Apostle Why then do they so violently press consciencious Doubters to their way 3. If thy brother be grieved saith the Apostle with thy meat thou walks not charitably Why then are they so uncharitable as to grieve Nonconformists with prelatick exactions if the Judging and despising the forbearer be forbidden much more are their cruell edicts and constraining Lawes whereby they burden the consciences of tender forbearers in this case The practice of Victor as to the Asian Churches was no doubt highly uncharitable but it was so mainly because of his censuring about such a trifle as Esther-observation we see from this schism the sad effects of innovations and that the Churches unity peace is best keept by adhering to the simplicity of the gospel and so our departing from the gospel simplicity in point of government and introducing abjured prelacy is the chief ground of the present schism and confusions in this Church But now followes our Informers main charge of external schism in sâ—…parating from the Churches communion in word and sacraments contrary to the apostles direction Not to forsake the assemblies Heb. 10. 25. It
foundation and basis of that tye but begs the question in the application thereof to his case I suppose a Presbyterian Minister should plead this to warrand his officiating among his people in opposition to the Curat incumbent that the people are bound to owne him as their Minister because of this reciprocal â—…ye That the Scripture obligations mentioned by the Informer lyes on him to be faithfull and diligent which while he is endeavouring according to his duty founded on his relation to his people the people are therefore bound to attend on his Ministrie to esteem him love him receive the Law from him and and not to discountenance nor discourage him by withdrawing to another Now let this man shew what he will answer to this pleading and his argument will quickly evanish before his own answer If he say that the tye is loosed let him instruct what that is which has in this case loosed it Sure neither the Magistrates violence nor Prelatick censures according to our Principles and the Doctrine of sound divines when this case is truely stated And if this divine tye stand what will he say Will it not 1. follow according to him that a Minister may be under a standing tye to his people and they to their Minister and yet the people for all this may not be obliged to hear him but another hie nunc and that warrantably without hazard of disobedience to these Scriptures and then he hath with his own hand cut the throat of his bare generall argument from the reciprocal tye Sure in some cases the tye may stand and yet the actuall reciprocal exercise or obligation to the exercise of duties may be hic nunc warrantably suspended in very many supposable cases as of Physicall impediments in the people and Minister hostile invasion Pestilence Imprisonment c. 2. If the tye or relation do stand and likewise all things which do immediatly dispose to the exercise of duty then the Prelatical incumbent is in this case an intruder and not to be own'd For I suppose he will not say that a Presbyterian Minister might lawfully officiat in his own Parish after the Curat is setled there for this would quite cross the scope of his Argument Now the Question betwixt the two competitors is which of them hath the prior lawfull and standing tye will he dare to deny that Presbyterian ministers had this and since he cannot shew how it is loosed nor prove it to be loosed this argument will militat not for him but against him Next as for what he cites out of Mr Durham on Revel pag. 105 106. anent this tye It is still extra oleas and nothing correspondent to his purpose untill he instruct that which is the basis and foundation of this Relation in the case of Conformists which he neither doth nor offers to do Mr Durham speaks of a special delegation from Christ of his speciall warrand and appointment to such a man to treat with such a flock Now sure this most be instructed from his Word and Testament as to Curats before he can from this make any shew of Argument For Presbyterian ministers do upon better ground lay claim to this special appointment in relation to their flocks upon which conformists have intruded yet this man thinks these ministers are not to be owned And since this deputation and appointment is with Mr Durham the foundation of the duty betwixt minister and people it must be cleard from the word in the case of Conformists before this passage of Mr Durham will afford any patrociny to his cause Then he tells us Thaâ—… Mr Durham holds that this obligation is not founded on meer voluntary consent Well let him mark this and then he must acknowledge that it s not meerly the Curats gaping consent for the fleece and filthy Lucre nor the peoples blind consent that will make them Ministers of these Congregations where they officiat What is it then that founds this relation The Scipture-commands saith Mr Durham 1 Thes. 5. 12. Know them that labour among you and are over you in the Lord. Heb 13. 14. Obey them that have the rule over you and submit your selves for they watch for your souls as they that most give account c. But will this man deny that Mr Durham speaks upon the supposition of the Minister his having the Ministerial call and mission according to the rule of the Word to ground his pleading these Scripture commands and his special commission to such a people And that he look't upon the Presbyteries mission and ordination and the peoples call together with due qualifications and the visible evidences of Christs call in the person thus admitted as the foundation of this special relation to such a flock according to the Scripture pattern and the order and Government of this Church then established I durst pose his conscience upon the truth of this and whether Mr Durham did ever dream of a speciall relation to a flock in this Church resulting from a Prelates mission in a Method of perjury in opposition to our Covenant and sworn reformation without the mission and ordination of a Presbytry or the peoples call and in a way of intrusion upon the charges of faithfull Ministers violently thrust out by persecuting Prelats the men thus obtruded being for most part such as have nothing that may ground a reasonable or charitable construction of them that they are sent of God but palpable evidences of the contrary While in the mean time the faithfull Ministers are willing to cleave to their flocks and the flocks to them If he say that all the Ministers he pleads for are not such I Answer he makes no limitation of this Argument but pleads the foremention'd Scriptures and Mr Durham's Testimony universally and tells us in the next page that Mr Durham binds the people fast to the Ministers of their own congregations by this discourse he means to the Ministry of all the Conformists As for that passage of Mr Durham's Testimony after cited by him anent the Sympathy betwixt Ministers and flocks and the reckoning that will be made in relation to mutuall duties We think it pleads very strongly for that Sympathy that ought now to be betwixt Presbyterian Ministers and their flocks which Conformists have usurped upon and the mutuall performing of duty to each other upon all hazards in opposition to the Curats intrusion And if Paul aggreaged particularly the Gentiles slighting and grieving him by his particular delegation to them which was even as to the Apostle himself by the imposition of the hâ—…ds of the Presbytry Act. 13. 13. Presbyterian Ministers delegation to their flocks which was in this manner must needs stand and may be much better pleaded upon this ground then that of Curats Who are sent to flocks by Prelats as their own underlings and have nothing like Pauls delegation in their mission So that Mr Durhams arguments and the Scriptures cited by him are
them then those that are meerly ordained by the prelats 3. He tells us That on this ground we would not adhere to these whom Timothy and Titus ordained nor would we have heard a minister for many ages of the Church Then he tells us of Jeroms quid facit excepta ordinatione Episcopus and that ministers have now a hand in ordaining Conformists That on this ground we would not have heard the members of the Assembly 1638. who were thus ordained and some now though non-conformists who were ordained before the year 1638 by Bishops the valitidity of which ordination is vindicat by â—…us dicinum minist Angâ—…ie Ans. We have already proven that Episcopal ordination is not in the lest warranted by the Authority of Timothy and Titus supposed in these Epistles but rather a Presbyterial ordination which is the pattern shewed upon the mount 2. We have also proven that his prelatick ordination whereof the Prelat hath he sole and proper power according to this constitution is a stranger in the first purer ages and even in Jerom's time 3. We have also proven that the granting of the essentialls of their ministerial call who are ordained by Bishops will plead nothing for owning Curats who are both scandalous and perjured intruders and have nothing for the most part which may in the least ground a charitable construction that they were ever called of God and are standing in opposition to a faithful ministry by them excluded and persecute from their watcthowers none of which can be said of the instances which he mentions As for that concurrence which he pretends Conformists have with the Bishops in ordination of ministers it is according to our Law meerly precarious and pro forma And therefore utterly insufficient to found his conclusion The Doubter objects that tho some of them were ordained by the Presbytery yet they are now turn'd the Bishops Curats He might have added and turned court or Erastian-Curats since the all of our present Conformists authority is derived from the court and subordinat to the supremacy as is evident in the act of restitution and other subsequents acts In answer to this he alleadges weakness of Iudgement strength of passion in the objecter but really shews both in himself by telling us that we may fear Christs threatning he that despises you despises me since he hath not yet made it appear that the men he pleads for have a relaion to this Church as her true Pastours according to the principles and tenor of our Reformation Then he tells us that Curat signifies a cure of souls But the True Non-conformist told his fellow Dialogist that this term owes its invention to mens vanity loathing the lowly Scripture style of Minister and is in effect nothing but the issue of the corrution of the Churches humility and that what they pretend herein while destroying in stead of feeding is like to stand in Judgement against them at the great day For his next interpretation of Curat viz. he that serves the cure tho not the Minister of the place but the substitute of another We owe him thanks for one egg is not liker another then they are to such vicarious substitutes But he will not have them called the Bishops Curats as if he were Pastour of the diocess and they deputed under him and Bishop he saith hath such thoughts of ministers What their thoughts are is best seen by their deeds We have proved that according to this frame of prelacy the Bishop is properly the sole Pastour of the Diocess In the 7. Argument against Prelacy The Doubters next objection is that they are perjured persons and therefore not to be heard He answers 1. That many of them never took the Covenant and therefore are not perjured which is already removed when we did prove from Deut. 29. that it oblidges even those who did not personally swear It s remarkable that Deut. 5. 2 3. God is said to have made a Covenant with his people in Horeb even with us saith Moses and all of us alive here this day They were dead who engadged at Horeb and many there present were not then born So Neh. 9. 38. all entered into Covenant but some only did seal it Sure the intention and relation of the Covenanters and the matter of the Oath it self will make it thus extensive Next he sayes Ministers that took it and comply with prelacy are not perjured for the reasons which be gave in the last conference Which reasons I have there answered and proved that there is nothing in our case which may in the least limit or invalidat its obligation and upon the grounds which are offered to evince the standing obligation of that Oath I do affirme that they are perjured 3. He tells us That scandalous faults tho deserving censure yet while it is not inflicted and the person not convict his Ministry ought to be waited upon as Iudas who came cloathed with Christs commission to preach so long as he was not convict yet was to be heard Ans. 1. He grants that scandalous faults specially of an high nature and if the man be impenitent do deserve deposition Now their faults are both scandalous and of a high nature such as prophanity perjury and apostacy in all which they are most impenitent and avow the same and as for their being convict and censured which he requireth as needfull for disowning them I answer they stand upon the matter convict by clear scripture grounds and by the standing acts and Iudicial decision of this Church in her supreme judicatories and assemblies which have condemned and made censurable with deposition their present principles and practices in opposition to her vows and government Again there is a great difference betwixt what ought to be people's carriage toward scandalous Ministers when a redress by Lawfull Church Judicatories may be had to which people may have recourse and what the duty of a people is in that case wherin a prevailing backsliding party and a persecuting Magistrat owne such Ministers so that the true Church can have no access for censuring and removing them In this last case supposing their scandals to be of a high nature this inevitable necessity of the Churches incapacity for present may supply the defect of a formal censure in the judgment of some and ground a disowning of them as if they were already cast out especially if their entry be by perjurious intrusion and their profanity and scandals therafter notour to all Now how applicable this is to Conformists needs not my paines to subsume We might also here tell him that there are scandals which are officiall rendring the man coram Deo no officer and that in case of their becoming very atrocius Mr Durham will allow to depart to more pure ordinances On scandal page 129. Although we will not take upon us to determine how in what cases during the Churches incapacity discomposed state a Ministers atrocious scandals after his entry and
more justly because of Conformists present case plead for disowning them as is said and cleard above After this he cites Mr Durham on Revel 3. inferring from what is said of the Angel of Sardis and Laodicea that a minister as to his case unsound may be owned and esteem'd as such But how impertinent this is to our purpose any may see for their scandalous carriage in their walk is much more then unsoundness as to their case which notwithstanding we acknowledge will not of it self and primo instanti warrand separation from ordinances in every case But we have cleared that we have much more to lay to the charge of Conformists then either inward unsoundness or outward scandalls simply considered even their corrupt Doctrine their intrusion their stated opposition to this Church her principles union and Reformation As to what Mr Durham adds and our Informer cites in relation to the ordinances their not suffering derogation in whatsoever hands they be anent a due ministerial respect to the Pharisees tho their rottenness was discovered by our Lord that Judas was to be received as an Ambassadour with other Apostles that God makes usefull Instruments sometimes and that edification doth not necessarly depend upon the holiness of the Instrument Act. 3. 12. Matth. 7. 23. It s utterly remote from our purpose as is clear from what is said for neither can he prove that this practice is a separation properly such nor doth that case of an Improvement of the pharisees teaching during that time of the legall dispensation now shortly to be abolisht meet our purpose nor the case of Judas hid abominations correspond with that of avowed perjury and apostacy from the vows and Reformation of our Church Nor is there here a supposed prior obligation of adherence to conformists ministry preponderating any objection as to their scandalls What can this man say if we shall plead these reasons of Mr Durham for adhering to Presbyterian ministers viz. that ordinances ought not to be despised in whatever hands they be that even the pharisees and Judas himself might be heard and therefore much more Presbyterian ministers of this Church that God can make even graceless men Instruments of good that the efficacy of means depends not on the holyness of the instrument Now will he admit a conclusion of owning Presbyterian Ministers from these principles nay he thinks that maters stand so with them because of their supposed Schism and disorder that for as applicable as these things are to them yet they ought not to be heard And so by his own confession and pleading this will conclude nothing for him untill his above mentioned groundless suppositions be made good Now let me retort of our Informers angry Querie here how can they Justifie withdrawing people from Presbyterian Ministers since not so bad as the scribes and Pharisees if they have either knowledge or moderation He must then of necessity grant if he will not contradict himself that all these grounds will not plead for hearing in some cases that the London Ministers assertion anent the validity of the Episcopal ordination for substance repeated here again ad nauseam falls utterly short of proving his conclusion Those Ministers do assert that the Presbyterian ordination is the more pure and conform to the scripture pattern what will he then say to this conclusion that upon this ground and especially because Conformists themselves owne the validity of Presbyterian Ministers ordination they are inconsequent to themselves as well as going cross to scripture and sound reason in disowning the ministry of the Presbyterian ministers of this Church and withdrawing people from hearing them Let him pull out this beam from his own eye and his answer shall easily serve for us The Doubter alledges that in Math. 23. We are not bidden hear the scribes and Pharisees and that the words will not bear that He answers that he forbids not to hear as we forbid to hear Conformists Ans. 1. We have seen that there is more may be alledged from the Scripture as to a prohibition to be their ordinary and constant hearers at least which he pleads for as to Conformists then he can alledge as to a command of hearing 2. That the tollerance or allowance of a hearing of them during that shortly to be abolisht legall dispensation is far from coming up to his conclusion of owning curats in this our case 〈◊〉 He answers that Mr Durham speaks of a ministerial respect due to these Pharisees and that without hearing this ministerial respect is Lame Ans. Mr Durhams reason anent a Ministerial respect is in relation to the Improvement of their teaching tho granted in the greatest latitude he can imagine will not inferr his conclusion of owning Curats in this case as is already cleared Admitting that a due Ministerial respect will infer hearing in Mr Durhams sense and instance yet in our case which I told him Mr Durhams assertion will not speak unto acknowledgment of a man to be a Minister and capable of a Ministerial respect in so far will not bear this conclusion else the Informer hath in a clap devoured and eaten in again all this Dialogue in pleading against this Ministerial respect in hearing Presbyterian Ministers whose Ministerial authority he acknowledges 2ly He answers that our Lord enjoyns obedience to that which they bid do and that as sitting in Moses chair and how could that be except the people heard them teach from Moses chair he that bids obey a Ministers injunctions from the word of God consequently bids hear him deliver his doctrine from the word Ans. We told him that for any thing that he or any of his fellow pleaders have yet offered from this text these Pharisees might be civil national doctors and interpreters of Moses Iudiciall Law and of 〈◊〉 municipal Law from his civil chair who was King in Iesurun which will no more infer a hearing them teach and preach as Church officers then our obedience to the King Council parliament and Session will infer that conclusion 2. His parallels as to the command of obeying a Ministers doctrine from the word its inferring an injunction of hearing him deliver these doctrines from the word is in this case and question pityfull sophistry and begging of the question in supposing that these anent whom this injunction was given were Ecclesiastick Ministers which he hath not yet proved 2. That teaching from Moses chair is in this case equivalent to Ministerial gospel teaching and preaching from the word of God which he has not proved either since as I said Gods word contained the Jews municipal Law which civil Judges might in that capacity deliver and interpret in relation to external righteousness betwixt man and man in things of this life Finally granting they were to be heard teach and expone which he hath not yet made good from the text it will nothing help his cause for the reasons often given so that the separation which he improves this place