never is nor cā be extinguished but hath a continual being Vnto which it may be added that since faith doth much cōsist d Heb. 11. 1. of things which are not seene we beleeve the holy Catholike Church as an Article of our faith it may follow that it need not ever be eminently visible and apparantly sensible vnto vs. 17 For the better exemplificatiō of this verity it may be remēbred what havocke was made by the heathen Romane Emperours their Deputies against the flock of Christ in the ten first persecutions That in the Roman dominion there was scant any to be heard of who professed Christianity but hee was soone cut of by the sword or otherwise Did they in those times suffer any patent visibility of true profeslours or when they once knewe where they were did they not forthwith labour to extirpate thē But in the daies of Cōstātius whē the Arriā Heresy had once gottē the head where in the world did there appeare any sēsible cōgregatiō maintaining the Orthodoxe belief Hieromes testimony of those daies was e Adversus Luci◅rianos The whole vvorld did sigh wondred that it selfe was Arrian The words are but fewe but they are to the purpose So said Gregorius Presbiter writing the life of Gregory Nazianzen The secte of the Arriās had almost possessed al the coastes of the world the power impiety of the Emperour ministring boldnes vnto it The words of Constātius himselfe in f Theodor. Hist. Eccles. lib. 2. 16. Theodoret do give testimony vnto this neither doth Liberius the Roman Bishop say ought to the cōtrary The speeches of the Arrian Emperour against him Athanasius are these The whole vvorld doth thinke that this is well The whole world hath givē sentēce of his impiety Thou alone dost embrace the friēdship of that wicked man And a litle before that Doth so great a part of the world reside in thee Liberius that thou alone dost dare to come in aide to that wicked mā disturb the peace of the vniversal world Whervnto Liberius did not take exceptiō saying that the visible Church stood for him Athanasius but rather giveth another reason to make good his being alone Be it that I am alone Notwithstāding for that the cause of the faith is not the worse For a great while agone there were three only foūd who would resist the Kings cōmandemēt Heere the Church for any external shew was low brought for if any body held it vp it was Athanasius who thē plaied least in sight durst not appeare For this Liberius who did for a time second him did afterward shrinke He went at first into banishmēt in defence of the truth but after that he was so sollicited laid at by g Hieron in Catalog script Eccles. Fortunatianus that he relēted cōdescended to subscribe to the Arrian heresy as Hierome witnesseth who lived in that age was longe cōversant in Rome therfore could better report what was the issue of Liberius his cōstācy thē some other who do relate it otherwise What can be said for him h De Pontifice Romano 4. 9. Bellarmine hath but yet enforced by the evident testimony of Athanasius Hilary Hierome he cōfesseth so much as I have heere set downe but cover it he would that he only consented to the externall acte of subscribing but remained in hart Orthodoxe Why should it then be a marveil◅ if in processe of time Antichrist growing to greater strength the Church should be in covert It is no more then often times fell out vnder the Iewish Synagogue and hath bin exemplified to have beene since among the Christians was so evidently foretolde before In so much that by the example of the i Apoc. 12. 6. woman it cannot be the true Church vnlesse it should be hidde in the wildernes Which while our Popish teachers deny to agree to their Romish Church but professe that it hath ever bin in sight they thēselves do by a cōsequēt proclaime that they are not the pure vndefiled flying womā but another painted harlot strūpet The true Church is for a time out of sight in the wildernes but so say they was their Church never and therefore will they nill they their Church is not the true Church 18 And heere to the end that the slaūderous calūniatiō of our Adversaries may the more bee manifested to all those who will not wilfully close their eies against truth I wil a little shewe the vanity and yet maliciousne◅ of their obiectiō whē they say that there was k Campian Ration 10. Q◅nti Evang pro fessores never any of our faith before the daies of Luther who in the yeere 1517. began for hi◅ part to display the kingdō of Antichrist Where I pray the Reader to cōsider that the most pa◅t of those whō I shal ◅e are Popish writers no way partially flected toward vs. We say thē that M. Luther was not the first brocher of those pointes which he taught against Papistry but as he did originally deduce thē frō the Scriptures out of the workes of the ancient Fathers so he did derive thē also hereditarily frō other who immediatly before him had taught the same doctrine left it both in bookes the harts of mē recōmēded vnto him As principal parties herein I name Iohn Hus Hierome of Prage al such as were their scholers in or about Bohemia who before Luthers time oppugned the beliefe of the Church of Rome and their professiō was not extinguished vntil his dates howsoever it before had bin mainly assaulted If we could learn this no where els yet Fraūcis Guicciardine an Italiā Florētine Historiographer would informe vs of it who l Histor. l. 13. writing of the yeere 1520 saith plainly that Luther did set abroad the Heresies as he tearmeth thē of the Bohemiās he nameth there Hus Hierome as former divulgers of the same And Petrus m In vita Wenceslai Messias a Spanyard therin agreeth with him who mētioning the opiniōs of Hus the Bohemians saith they were the seed of those errors which were afterward in Germany alluding to the doctrin of Luther There is no mā whose testimony in this behalfe may be of more worth thē Iohannes Cochleus first because hee wrote a large story n Historia Chochle◅ de Hassit◅s of purpose cōcerning the Hassites and therefore by his long search reading writing in that argument may bee presumed to knowe as much as any Secondly because it may bee vvell imagined that hee woulde faine nothing to doe Luther good in as much as hee also wrot◅ a o Histor de actis script M. Lutheri volume purposely against that worthy servāt of God intēding to rippe vp his whole life frō yeere to yeere to censure all his workes Yet this enimy of his in the story of the Hussites doth plētifully satisfie vs about the
so maintaine them For such dissolute dawbing of paper you are worthy to be rewarded at least with nothing It may be said of you your maister Bristow c Virgils Eclog. 3 Et vitula tu dignus hic It cannot be denied that some men of learning haue disliked the over-much heaping vp of Sentences out of the Fathers to no purpose or needlessely especially if it haue bin done in Latin or Greeke wheÌ„ SermoÌ„s are made to the ordinary people in the vulgar tongue But the iudgmeÌ„t of the most iudicious such as respect the edificatioÌ„ of the heaters wil warraÌ„t this their opinion while it dislâ—…keth not the vse but the abuse But that any maÌ„ of learning in our church or of true accouÌ„t in our state haue simply coÌ„dcÌ„ned the vsing of theÌ„ you caÌ„not shew Some weaker men in a little humâ—…ur haue seemed to bee no great favourets of theÌ„ paâ—…tly because they know them not as d 〈◊〉 in Adâ—…gijs Knowledge hath none more eger enemy theÌ„ 〈◊〉 persoÌ„ partly because they haue not learning to vnderstaÌ„d theÌ„ Also because they wil not be at cost to buy theÌ„ or if these impedâ—…eÌ„ts were remooved because they wil not take the paines to read theÌ„ But even such do daily more more reforme their iudgmeÌ„t we doubt not but God who hath put the spirit of moderatioÌ„ temperaÌ„te into the greatest wisest most learned of such as in times past were otherwise minded wil loine vs al in one against you the coÌ„mon enemies of the truth who in an Italionated out-landish faction litle care what you do And so I trust every English maÌ„ defiring to keepe himself in spiritual purity e Iacobâ—… 27 Motiv 14. vnspotted of the world Poperty the odious names of Puritans Precisias wherat you haue so triuÌ„phed shall to the greefe of your harts be extirpated al who loue the Gospel ioining in one as ChristiaÌ„s brethreÌ„ shal be dutiful subiects to God our King Your conclusion is ridiculous worthy to be hissed at The Protestants defend the Fathers against the Puritanes Ergo the Fathers be against both the Protestants and the Puritanes This is Logicke of the Popish Seminary 4 The titles which you heere bestow on the ancient Fathers Bristow setteth downe thus f 〈◊〉 14. excellent wits continual study woÌ„derfull learning servent praier holy coÌ„versation favour in Gods sight mighty working of infinite miracles froÌ„ whence froÌ„ the rest the Reader may iudge whether you had not Bristowes booke lying before you wheÌ„ you skuffled togither this Rhapâ—…ody As for these praises we neither envy theÌ„ nor deny theÌ„ to those great laÌ„pes of the first Church vnlesse it be that of working of miracles wherof we make a doubt And by these helps we say that they were wel furnished to vnderstand expound many things in the Scripture as also somewhat by their neerenesse to the time of the Apostles in those places especially where truth was kepte without mingling And yet we will you heere to remember that fewe or scant any one of the Fathers had the Scriptures freshly delivered vnto him from the Apostles themselues you are pitifully out for diverse hundreds of yeeres came betweene Christes disciples and the most of the olde Doctours And againe to call to minde that soone after the Apostles yea as g Eccl. Hist. Lib 3. 26. Eusebius saith immediately after their death heretakes came plentifully in who laboured what they coulde to corrupt the fountaines wheÌ„ce all pure water was to flowe Remember also that for three hundred yeeres by the extremity of persecutioÌ„ the Pastours were few they had little liberty to come togither to conferre about thinges questioned or to follow their studies so much as they would And yet farther remeÌ„ber that some of theÌ„ came late froÌ„ the Gentiles as Cyprian some froÌ„ heretiks as Eusebius froÌ„ the ArriaÌ„s AusteÌ„ the Manichees somefroÌ„ meere secular callings as Ambrose of al these without Gods special grace they might a little participate Then he is bliÌ„d who seeth not that they had not al those helps as these haue whoÌ„ you cal late folish vnstudied vnlearned profane arrogaÌ„t fellowes These words you vse when you Doctour Hill are not worthy to be sorted with the meanest of a thousand among them which speech without amplification or any diminution may be iustifyed onely in the present Church of England For first wee have the writinges of all those Fathers themselves like to which every private man of them had not no nor all the world neither before their times Secondly since their daies there be infinite bookes written which give light to matters in controversy Thirdly our age by meanes of printing hath better facility to come by al bookes theÌ„ those ancient times had Fourthly progres of daies hath made many thiÌ„gs plainer to later ages because they haue bin already fulfilled theÌ„ they could be to former tims wherin meÌ„ did but gesse at theÌ„ Fifthly God hath made the scriptures of such sort as that meÌ„s wits are to be exercised in theÌ„ vntil y e day of iudgmeÌ„t it beloÌ„geth to that industry which God requireth in his servaÌ„ts y e they shold not satisfy theÌ„selues w t the labours of others so growidle bue they shold search farther inventis addâ—…re Sixthly the helpe of the toÌ„gues is more rife now then it was amoÌ„g the ordinary sorte of them as may be seene by Athanasius who was so stuÌ„bled in the h Prov. 8. 22 8. Chap. of the Proverbs the i Athanas. in decret Nicen. Synod ArriaÌ„s to prove Christ a creature vrging thence by the traÌ„slatioÌ„ of the Septuagint that it is in the text k 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Septuag The Lord made mee or created me the beginning of his waies to which without difficulties he might easily haue aunswered if hee had looked into the l 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hebrew where it is rather as Hierome readeth it the Lord possessed mee or as Arias Montanus hath it the Lord got or obtained me Also Austen had no Hebrew and both he Gregory very little Greek as els-where I have shewed Now although it be likely that neerest to the fountaines the waters runne most cleerely the farther of that we are they are the more likly to be polluted yet in spirituall thinges that is not to bee vnderstood of place or time but of keeping close to the original of the writen word and not varying from it And so a man furnished by God as m Exod. 31 〈◊〉 Beseleel was to the framing of the Tabernacle may be by the means aboue named and by praier conference study nothing inferiour to those first lightes even as S. Austen was more excellent in some of his expositions on the Scripture then Origene and some other more ancient then himselfe were Which as both for him S. Hierome especially
reverence and honour to those onely bookes of Scriptures which are called Canonicall that I doe most firmely beleeve that no authour of them did erre in writing any thing To other then hee taketh exception Hee speaketh elsewhere plainer b Epist. 48. The Fathers are not so reade as if a testimony might bee so drawne out of them that it were not lawfull to thinke contrariwise if they have otherwise suppoâ—…ed then the truth did require And againe c Epist. 113. I have put the opinions of so great men c. not that I doe thinke them to be followed as the Canonical Scripture And wheÌ„ he was hard pressed in the Controversie of Baptisme with the authority of Cyprian hee aunswereth Cresconius d Contr. Crescen GraÌ„matic lib 2â—… I esteeme the letters of Cyprian not as Canonicall but I consider them out of the Canonicall and looke vvhat agreeth in them to the authoritie of the Divine Scriptures vvith praise to him I receive vvhat doth not agree vvith his good leave I refuse And afterward Because that is not Canonical vvhich thou râ—…est vvith that libertie to vvhich GOD hath called vs I doe not receive that vvhich savoured amisse of that man vvhose praise I cannot attaine vnto to vvhose many letters I doe not compare my vvritinges vvhose vvitte I lone vvith vvhose speech I am delighted whose charity I doe admire whose martyrdome I hold venerable Can ought be delivered more significantly and to our purpose then this is And least that any man should suspect that hee was more strictly laced toward other men theÌ„ he would have other toward him he frequently writeth as modestly of himselfe as he doth wisely of those who went before him As to e Epistol 7 Marcellinus I therefore doe confesse my selfe to bee of the number of them vvhe in profiting doe vvrite and in vvriting doe profite VVherevpon if any thing bee set dovvne by mee either vnvvarily or vnlearnedly which not onely by other men vvho can see that may bee vvorthily reprehended but also of my selfe because even I at least aftervvard ought to see it if I doe profite it is neither to be wondered at nor to be grieved at but rather it is to be pardonned and to bee reioyced at not because there hath beene an errour but because it hath beene disliked For that man doth too perversely love himselfe vvho vvill have other men also to erre that his errour may lye hid And to Fortunatianus f Epist. 111. Neither are wee to account the disputations of any men though Catholikes and commendable persons as the Canonical Scriptures that saving the honour which is due vnto those men it is not lawfull for vs to dislike and reict some thing in their writings if perhaps we shal find that they haue otherwise thought then that truth hath which by the helpe of God hath either bin vnderstood by others or by vs. Such a one am I in the writings of other mens such would I have the vnderstaÌ„ders of mine to be And handling the high mysteries of the Trinity he saith g De Trinit at l. 1. 3 Whosoever readeth these things where he is alike sure let him go on with me where alike hee doubteth let him seeke vvith mee vvhere hee knovveth his errour let him returne to me vvhere hee spieth mine let him recall mee And in the same booke else-where h Lib. 〈◊〉 in pâ—…aefation Let the one not love mee more then the Catholike faith let the other not love himselfe more then the Catholike truth As I say to the one doe not attend on my writings as on the Canonical Scriptures c. This is the minde of Saint Augustine 27 Neither doth this renoumed servant of God heerein goe alone but he hath sufficient of others who in this be halfe do second him The great Dionysius not the supposed Areopagite but another worthy man since his time did long ago informe vs in this doubt Eusebius bringeth him in speaking thus i Eccles. Hist l 7 19 I do very much reverence Nepos yet truth is the neerest friend of all and ought deservedly to be preferred before all And if any thing be rightly spoken that is to be commended without envy but if any thing bee committed to writing not sincerely and soundly this with diligence is to bee sought out to be reprooved To this effect also are the words of S Hierome I k Epist 62 doe know that I my selfe doe esteeme of the Apostles in one sort and of other writers in another sort that the first do alwaies speake the truth and the latter as men doe in some things erre Adde to these that of Theodoret who saith that l Dialog 3. the Fathers of the Church by a veheâ—…ent contention against their adversaries doe many times exceede measure Thus they vse to do who plant trees For wheÌ„ they see a tree growne crooked they do not onely set him vp vpright but they doe bende him to the other side that by too much inclining to the contrarie parte they may cause it to bee straight This is the iudgement of the auncient vvriters themselves concerning the workes of one another that they go too farre that they do may erre that they are not to be ioyned in equal estimatioÌ„ with the Canonical Scriptures And therfore what reasoÌ„ have we not to vse our ChristiaÌ„ liberty in examinig of theÌ„ by the rule of truth so to embrace that which is right and to repudiate that which is of another nature I doe marveile then what advauntage our Papistes doe thinke they can gette by craking vppon the names of these since their authority even in their ovvne iudgement is not absolute and Dictatourlike but vvith a reference and meerely dependent vppon a higher commaunder In which case if they stoope to the scepter of the LORD wee willingly and readily admit of them vvith due honour and reverence othervvise we leaue them But the tryer of them we hold to be the Canonical Scripture of the olde and new Testament 28 On the other side how the Synagogue of Rome speake they of these Doctours never so faire doe deale vvith them it is good that every vveake Christian shoulde know For howsoever they in their vvordes pretende greate honour to them yet in truth they are the onely men in the vvorlde vvho offer notorious vvronge to them For first how are they debased when such lights of the Easterne and VVesterne Church men so fraughted vvith knowledge and adorned vvith eloquence shall not onely bee sette in comparison vvith but set after the Popes barbarous champion Thomas of Aquine Noble Hierome thou hast vvell studyed and renoumed Augustine thou hast wel laboured to come to such a preferment in thine old age For one of the Popes Aug HuÌ„naeus in praefat SuÌ„mm Aquinat ad Pium 5. Pontific Innocents did so much esteeme the learning of Aquinas that he doubted not to give vnto him the first place after
were there is not one more pernicious to the Church of God then that of the Poore men of Lyons for three causes First because it is of longer continuance Some say that it hath endured from the time of Sylvester Other say that from the time of the Apostles The second is because it is more generall For there is almost no land in which this sect doth not creepe The thirde that whereas all other by the immâ—…ity of their Blasphemies against God do make men abhorte them this of the Lyonists having a great shew of godlinesse because they doe liue iustly before men and do beleeue all things well of God and all the Articles which are contained in the Creede only the Church of Rome they doe blaspheame and hate which the multitude is easie to beleeue and as Sampsoni Foxes had their faces severall waies but their tayles tyed one to the other so heretikes are diverse in sects among themselves but in the impugning of the Church they are vnited There can hardly be found a more honorable testimony out of the mouth or penne of a bitter and bloudy adversary as he was who wrote this and much more concerning those good servountes of God 30 VVe shall not neede to ascende any higher since hee giveth witnesse of the antiquity of their profession long before his â—…lme VVhich otherwise to make plaine is as easie as to deliver that which hitherto I have spoken And it is not to bee conceived that Petrus VValdâ—… of whom the VValdenses tooke their name at Lions had his doctrine from no body but that of himselfe he attained to his owne knowledge since he was not deeply learned c Matth. Parâ—… in Gul. Conquestore Berengarius indeede vvas onely called in question for denying of Transubstantiation in the Sacrament but it may well bee thought that in some thing else hee dissented from the Church of Rome And albeit by his ovvne vveakenesse and the importunitie of the Clergie hee yeelded once or tvvise to recant and abiure the true doctrine vvhich hee helde yet hee had many d CoÌ„tinuat histor de gestis Anglorum lib. 3. 27. scholers vvho by his example vvould not bee driven from the right Beleefe which they had apprehended These scholers were in e Malmisbur lib 3. France in great numbers and in diverse other Landes And Genebrard cannot conceale it but that about the f Chronogr lib. 4. yeere of our LORD 1088. Basilius the Monke did set on foote againe the errour of Berengarius And might not the doctrine of both these bee sucked from Bertram who wrote so learnedly and so directlie out of the Scriptures and Fathers against the Reall-presence and Transubstantiation that the Index g In Bertramo Expurgatorius cannot tell vvhat to make of him but the Bishoppe of h Resp. ad Dan. Tilen fol. 258. Eureux vnder the name of Henrie Connestable tearmeth him the greate fore-runner of all the Sacramentaries and i La saincte Messe declar lib. 2. 4 Richâ—…e the Iesuit disclaimeth him plainelie as a Sacramentarie Heretike Then Calvin and Zuinglius vvere not the first vvho gaine-saide Transubstantiation Before our ascending thus highe vvee might tell you of Saint Bernard vvhome although it is likelie at the first dashe you will chalendge as your ovvne yet vvhen you have vvell advised on him you may let him goe againe For albeit hee had his errours vvhich hee sucked from the age vvherein hee lived and vvee may not in all thinges subscribe to his iudgement but say of him as commonlie it is spoken Bernardiâ—… non vidit omnia yet vvee finde in him sâ—…rem partem a liberall profession of manie good and sound pointes agreeable to the Gospell He for a fashion acknowledgeth maine matters to bee in the Pope and giveth him k De considerat ad Eugen. lib. 2. 8. greater titles then any Papist can iustifie but it is by such infinuation to winne him the more attention froÌ„ Eugenius and then having procured liberty or rather taken it to himselfe hee schooleth and lessoneth the Pope plainely shewing that hee liked not of their ordinarie courses neither did hee repute him to have that preheminence or prerogative which his Parasites did allowe him But touching the matter l Serm. 61. in Cantiâ—… of merit by good workes for m Epist. 190. Iustification by faith alone in Christ for n De gratia libero arbitrio Free-will for o Serm. 3. de 7. misericordijs Certaine assurance of salvation in the death and by the strength of our Saviour and for p Serm. in Concil Rhemens dislikeing then the vile life of the Clergy how cleâ—…re how pregnant how copious is hee These thinges wee teach togither with him and notwithstanding his other slippes wee doubt not but his soule doth rest with the Lord God pardoning vnto him his errours and ignorances which hee being caried vvith the streame of that time did never discusse but tooke them as they were delivered to him without scanning or examining And to this good hope we are firmely induced by that saying of Saint Paule q 1. Cor 3. 11. Other foundation can no man laye then that vvhich iâ—…aide vvhich is Iesus Christ And if anie man builde on this foundation golde silver precious stones timber hay or stubble everie mans worke shall bee made manifest for the day shall declare it because it shall bee reveiled by the fire and the fire shall trie everie mans vvorke of vvhat sorte it is If any mans vvorke that hee hath builte vpon abide hee shall receive vvages If any mans vvorke burne hee shall lose but hee shall bee safe himselfe Hee helde the foundation of Iustification by onely faith in Christ and that our best deedes are but r De gratia liber arbitr via regni non cause regnandâ—… the vvay to the kingdome not the cause of raigning and for that cause we doubt not but his soule is safe though his hay and stubble of praying vnto Saints and other such stuffe as cannot endure the fire of the holy Ghosts triall do burne and consume And this is our iudgment touching many other both before and after the time of Saint Bernard that holding Christâ—…e foundation aright and groning vnder the heavy but then of humane Traditions Satisfactions and other Popish trash they by a generall repentance from their errours and lâ—…pses knowne and vnknowne and by an assured faith in their Saviour did finde favour with the Lord. Such as these vvere vvee holde to bee Gods good servants to be of the number of the Elect and propter saâ—…rem 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for their founder and better parte to bee of that Church vvhereof vvee are to bee members of that bodye vvhereof by the grace of Christ vvee are a portion 31 And in this respect our setled and resolved iudgement is that when it is asked where our Church in former ages was we may besides that which formerly hath beene
vnsought to procure glorie to that which was in it selfe very vnglorious Their care therefore was to convert the eies of all persons on their externall hewe which was marveilously adorned and garnished to the sence with their 〈◊〉 Crosses set vp or caried before some Prelates with the triple Crowne Praefat. Catalog Testium veritatis of their Popes the redd hattes of their Cardinals the precious attire of some in their Churches their prodigious apparel abroad the diverse-couâ—…oured coules of their Monkes such singing and chauÌ„ting with Organs such ringing of Belles such trimming of Images many more such sensible matters as that neither the Iewes nor the GeÌ„tiles had the like And amoÌ„g all this if true Religion in diverse were present it is not to bee marveiled at if she were scant seene or if no notice were takeÌ„ of her for her poore vntrimmed or vngarnished hewe for her naked simplicity and vnpainted integrity It was the commendation given to Solâ—… beloved by vvhome the Church is represented that the Ps. 45. 13. Kinges daughter is all glorious vvithin her bevvtiâ—… consisting of puritie in faith veritie in doctrine severenesse in behaviour innocencie patience and such like spirituall complementes And these are as much contemned in others by the Antichristian rabble as they are neglected in themselves vvhereas their externall pompe on the contrarie side is as much despised by the LORD as it is magnified in their fleshly and carnall imaginations And thus I ende this matter hoping that if any Reader thinke that I have beene to long in this Chapter hee will remember the waight of that which hath beene handled and a recompence shall bee made in some other Reasons following vvhere I am not enforced to the large handling of the question then occurrent THE SECOND REASON The name of Catholikes T. HILL NO man can iustly deny but that they who have ever holden the name of Catholikes and have bin knowne thereby were vndoubtedly of true Religion for that they had ever on their side the Scriptures Miracles Fathers Councels Martyrs and for that every one which was against them was ever accounted reputed for an Heretike And the same Catholikâ—… were ever taken as the trunke or as the body of the tree and all others bearing the name of Christians as branches or boughes cut of the same tree Now all the world knoweth that whoseever in any age vvas a member of the Romane Church and vnder the obedience of the high Bishop thereof hee was ever taken for a Catholike so tearmed although in these our daies it hath pleased the Protestants to call such by the name of Papists which indeede is all one with the name Catholikes for that it signifieth such as follow and embrace the doctrine of that Church which hath for her head vnder Christ the Pope And it is not amisse as Chrysostome saith to be named of them vvho governe the Homil. 33. in Acta Church in Christes steede so that they take not their name of any particular man as Heretikes dâ—…e G. ABBOT BY this little which is already passed every man may conceiue that Master Doctor Hill is desirous to write a booke for I dare not saye make one for feare of slaundering him and resolving that the ground of all his â—…ong should bee taken from Master Bristowes Motives he coulde not vvell for very shame beginne as Bristow beganne least at the very entraunce into this his renouned labour he should be deprehended to take vp the most part of his ware on trust Vsing therefore in the front some little simple cunning to goe farther of he with some change borrowed the matter of his first Chapter a Brist 37 45. Motive out of the 37. and 45. Motiue of the other but not willing to trouble himselfe any more in that painefull sorte to seeke farre of his fingers presentâ—…â—…itched to bee doing with somewhat neerer hand and therefore for the slender substance of his second Reason hee goeth fairely and readily to the b Câ—… 1. 3. first and thirde Chapter of his good Maister Bristow and scambling somewhat of his owne in from those two hee patcheth vp all the â—…est Hee hoped that the former being not so much disguised as trans-placed shoulde haue covered all which followed and if that at the first had beene clenly caryed all which commeth after woulde haue beene the safer vnder the protectâ—…on thereof There is or hath beene some what in the world which thinketh all well if the heade of it selfe bee hid although the whole body doe lye out to bee seene If you knowe not what that is 〈◊〉 imagine it to bee Caligula the Emperour vvho albeit in great thunder and lightning as c Sueton in Caligula 51 Suetonius reporteth he would wholy runne vnder his bedde for feare yet if it vvere but a little clappe or flash he would winke with his eies and hide his head alone and then he thought all his body out of perill But for this borrower vpon Interest his body lyeth open to vs searching for it and the head although both winking and hooded hath not beene hid And now take vs with you I pray you 2 Every wise one can deny and that most iustly that such as haue desired to ingrosse the name of Catholikes appropriating it to themselues and yet haue taken no farther care but titularly to be are it as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 râ—… as Mâ—…ns 〈◊〉 noâ—… 〈◊〉 cannot rightly make challendge to retaine possesse the Orthodoxe faith but that the Divine Scriptures true and approved Miracles authenâ—…icall Fathers Oâ—…cumenicall Councels and Christes Martyrs may be as suâ—…e from such counterfeites as light is from darkenesse and men shall not bee Heretikes but Godâ—… good servants who vpon sufficient ground do stand against them The true Church is indeedâ—… the Lordes Vine the tree of his delight a more precious plant then anye was in Paradise but those who beare d Apoc. 3 1. a 〈◊〉 to liue yet are deade as it was said to the Angel of the Church of Sardis are to bee accounted no better then dead boughes or rotten braunches vntill they see their owne errour and there-vpon repent And all the vvorlde knovveth that vve may vse your phrase which you borrow of Master e Appendix to the quodlibets in the margent Parsons or of the Fâ—…ench 〈◊〉 le monâ—… that hovvsoever in times past vvhile Rome kept the Apostolike faith a man vâ—…ted to the same profession mighte bee called a Catholike not because simplye and absolutely hee applyed himselfe to the men of Rome but by reason that â—…ointelye and together vvith them hee accepted the Beleefe of the Vniversall Church yet novâ—… one conforming himselfe to the practise of that Cittie to the Decrees of the Popes to the Canons of the Tridentine Councell doeth meâ—… to bee tearmed a Cacolike an Heretike an enemy to the Church an adversarie of CHRIST a vassall of Antichrist But vveâ—… are contented to
meaning that of Saint Austen may be The Christiā faith i De moribus Eccles. Cathol lib. 1. 18. is not any where but in the Catholike discipline or instruction vnto which sence vse ordinary custome hath now brought the word Even so they are most farre from it For while they strive about the name they have lost the thing they keepe the shel but have parted with the kernel while they lay hould on the Candle-sticke some other is runne away with the light Their case is like that of the kings souldiours of k Socrat. l. 7. 20. Persia who keeping the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or Immortales were wel proved to be otherwise whē by the Roman armies they were distressed slaine shewed to be mortal Let thē lay aside these verbal titulary gloses make plaine out of the Scripture that they maintaine the same faith which Christ and his Apostles taught then they do somewhat But they are fallen from it yea from the sound profession which was in the daies of the Fathers Doctors of the Primitive Church therfore that which was true of their times is not communicable now to Popery No not that of Saint Austen whervpon they have a maine desire to fastē The l De vera Religione cap 7. Christian Religiō is to be held by vs the cōmunion of that Church which is Catholike and is named Catholike not onely of her owne friends but also of all her enimies For wil or nil the very Heretikes favourers of schismes when they speake not with their owne but with strangers they cal the Catholik church nothing els but the Catholike church For they cannot be vnderstood vnlesse they distinguish her by that name wherby she is called of al the world This was spoken of the whole nūber of Christians in the world which embraced the right faith not of the Romane Church onely And those who nowe are devoted vnto Rome doe as much differ from the puritie and integrity of their olde predecessours as Babylon doth differ from Sion Then in oppositiō to Heretikes which were but in corners and fewe places the faith which either Rome or any right Christian citty helde might be called Catholike but nowe that which the Pope maintaineth may it selfe bee reckoned no better then Hereticall perfidiousnes which the farther it is spred the worse it is with Gods flocke 9 To set them therfore straight by bringing thē from such vizards painted shewes to the matter it is not any name wherevnto men are directed for finding out the truth but m Ioh. 5. 39. Search the Scriptures saith Christ for in them you thinke to have eternall life and they are they which testifie of mee And as they testifie of Christ so do they also of his Spouse as we find in diverse of the ancient Fathers Cyprian saith n De Lapsis Hee is not ioyned to the Church vvho is separated frō the Gospell He who beareth the name of Origene on the Canticles o Homil. 3. A good purpose and the beleeving of right opinions doth make a soul to be in the house of the Church But S t. Chrysostome or the Auctor of the Imperfect worke vpon S t. Matthew doth yet speake more plainely p Homil. 49. He who will know what is or which is the true Church of Christ whēce should he know it but only by the Scriptures The Lord therfore knowing that in the last daies there vvould bee so great confusion of things doth therfore command that the Christians which are in Christianity being willing to receive the firmenes of a true faith should flie to no other thing but to the Scriptures Otherwise if they looke to other things they shall be scandalized and perish not vnderstanding vvhich is the true Church By which our Romanists may see that it is not a naked name nor any other matter of all that vncertaine rabble which the writer of this Pamphlet heereafter subioyneth that can bee our direction which is the Church or where is the truth but only the holy Scriptures And as Chrysostome hath q Homil. 33. in Act. If any agree to thē he is a Christian if any fight against them hee is farre from this rule The word of the Lord is the sure foundation he who buildeth on any thing besides this setteth his house but vpon the r Mat. 7. 26. sand and while he thinketh that he standeth for the Faith and for the Church he is enemie to both as those were to whom Leo sometimes Bishop of Rome wrote thus s Leo Epist. 83 ad Episcopos Palestinos you thinke that you deale for the faith and you goe against the faith You are armed in the name of the Church and you fight aganist the Church Let him who will farther be satisfied in this point reade what a learned man hath written vpon this Argument that s Ioh. Rainold Thes. 5. The Church of Rome is neither the Catholiks Church nor a sound member of the Catholike Church and if he bee not obdurate hee shall never neede to doubt farther in that behalfe t In praefat De triplici hominis officio UUeston a most vaine-glorious but shalowe fellow at Doway hath vaunted that if he had leysure he would beate that servant of God to dust I feare he wil never have leysure to grapple with him vnlesse it be heere and there to skulke out at some hole or corner and runne backe againe I meane heere and there snatch a saying of his falsely alleaged vnconscionably perverted as already he hath done But if hee bee the man that hee pretendeth to bee and I may request any thing of him let him first begin directly to answere the Thesis before named and we shall by his cariage therein iudge what is his true strength I woulde have VVeston fall about this worke for it is of too high a pitch for my good Doctour Hill THE THIRD REASON Vnitie and Consent T. HILL THe Catholike Romane Religion being received by so many Nations in Africa Asia Europa and in this last age in both the Indies hath notwithstanding such variety of wits such diversitie of māners such multitude of tōgues lāguages such distāce of places such nūbers of matters to be beleeved yet ever kept Vnity Concord in such peaceable consonāt māner as never any one in Englādor Irelād which are the vttermost parte of the VVest-world dissented or disagreed in anie point of doctrine cōcerning faith frō him which lived in the vtmost partes of the East But whosoever they be or in what place or Region soever they remaine in al the world if they be Catholikes or Papists if you wil cal thē so they all have one Faith one Beleefe one Service one number of Sacraments one Obedience one Iudgement in all with other like points of Vnion and Vnity which maketh a geuer all Vniformity also in the peace
Church theÌ„ should be said to bring out more children theÌ„ formerly shee had done shee must haue gone for a moÌ„ster So it is since the time of Christ. God hath his appointed seasons which himselfe hath fore-told somtimes promising that his spouse should flourish and some other times be obscured So in the daies of Constantine the hew of her not for purity but for extent was more glorious then vnder all the former Emperours Vnder Constantius Iulian her territory was abridged yet vnder the Theodosij and some other blessed Emperours shee grew againe notwithstaÌ„ding was no monster After ward her beauty was dimmed the authority of Antichrist spreading it selfe in the worlde as it was before hand f Apo. 13. 14 prophecied that it should bee But God at last did determine that wheÌ„ other things should be accomplished the g 2. Thes. 2. 8. wicked man should be reveiled as all the worlde may see that in our time he is whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth that is with the preaching of the word vvhich who doth not se to haue diminished the kingdome of the Pope and shall abolish with the brightnes of his comming so that Antichrist albeit much maimed shal be til the last day of iudgment therfore his Ministers must striue to keep his kingdoÌ„e vpright as our Iesuits Seminary Priests do But his Babylon in part by degrees must fall so it is already The Church was ever somwhat but of late shee is more glorious then in some ages before What will you therfore say farther 5. Shee began in the Apostles time to fructifie in all the world That we do not deny but the questioÌ„ is whither the Gospell did spread otherwise then every way towarde all the coasts of the world in such sence as formerly I haue shewed It was towarde the East and West and North and South but not in every particular province vnder heaven The words of h Lib. 1. 3. Ireneus are The Church having gotten this faith although shee be dispersed through the whole world doth diligently keepe it Wherout if you wil gather that in his time the Church was in all the knowne worlde you will make vs of Britaine very ancient partakers of the faith since i Euse. Eccl. Histor. 5. 19 Ireneus was the scholler of Polycarpus whose Maister was Iohn the Evangelist And this excellentlie fitteth your report of king Lucius Pope Eleutherius Tertullian saith thus k Contra Iudaeos c. 4. The kingdome name of Christ is every whither extended is every where beleeved is embraced by all the nations aboue named raigneth every where is every where adored The countries before named are from India to Aethiopiâ—… Germany Britaine Mauritania and some few other Cyprian saith l De simplicit prelato vel de vnirat Eccles. The Church with store of fruitfulnesse doth stretch foorth her bowes into the whole world The speech of Athanasius is m De incar nat verbi As many nations as bee any where abiuring thâ—…r countries rites the wickednesse of their Idols doe now place their hope on Christ and doe give their names vnto him as even by the verie eyes a man may deprehend Chrysostome writeth thus n In Mat 24 That before the overthrovve of the Cittie of Hierusalem the Gospell vvas spreade through the vvorlde heare Paule Their sounde is gone out into all landes And Hierome commenting on the same texte o Hier in Matth 24 A signe of the Lordes comming is that the Gospell should bee preached in all the vvorld that no man may bee excusable vvhichwe see already fulfilled or shortlee to bee completed For I do not thinke that there is any nation remaining which is ignorant of the name of Christ. And although it hath not had a Preacher yet by the bordering nations it cannot be ignorant of an opinion of the faith S t Austen being enquired of concerning the end of the world saith that before it come the Gospel must be preached to al nations which in as much as he supposed not to be done in his time he resolveth that the day of iudgment was not presently to follow Heare himselfe p Epist. 78 But if by reason of certaine places vvhich are inaccessible and in hospitall it is not beleeved to be possible that the vvorlde should bee traveiled over by the servaunts of GOD and it shoulde bee faithfullie reported how many and how great nations there bee yet without the Gospell of Christ muchlesse doe I suppose that by the Scriptures it may be comprehended how longe times there shall be vnto the ende in as much as in them we doe reade No man can knowe the times vvhich the Father hath put in his own power In the second Epistle which you cite out of Saint Austen the best words that I can finde for your purpose are these q Epist 80. The Prophet sheweth hâ—…vve there is no parte of the vvorlde lefte vvhere the Church is not since there is 〈◊〉 of the Ilands left but that it doth adore him VVhat more is in this place you shall heare by and by Theodoret hath thus much speaking of Antichrist r In divino decretor Epitome by the prediction of God the Gospell must bee preached amonge all Nations and then hee that is Antichrist must bee so seene The words of Leo are s Leo serm 〈◊〉 in Nat iv Petr. Paul To the ende that the effect of this vnspeakeable grace of CHRISTS taking flesh vpon him might be spreade through all the vvorld the providence of God did prepare the kingdome of the Romanes Prosper writeth howe Pelagius the heretike beeing sprung vp in Britaine was oppugned s Prosper do Ingratis Talia cum demens latè diffunderet error Commentisque rudes traheret let halibus aures Adfuit exhortante Deo provisa per orbem Sanctorum pia cura patrum non dispare â—…otu Conficiens diros taculis coelestibâ—… hostes Hisdem namque simul decretis spiritus vnus Intonuit pestem subeuntem prima recidit Sedes Roma Petri quae Pastorales honoris Facta caput mundo quicquid non possidet armis Relligione tenet non segnior inde Orientis Rectorum cura emicuit 6 These wordes if you wil vrge for the Primacy of Rome they doe in substaunce import no more then that which was decreed in the first Nicene Councell where the Bishop of Rome was termed t Vide Gratian part 1 Distinct 99. 3 Primae sedis Episcopus and the vvordes poetically serte out by caput pastoralis honoris doe signifie no more Therefore you goe to farre vvhen you saye the Bishop of Rome is of Prelates peerelesse Lord which your selfe may see since Prosper in coÌ„futing Pelagius ioyneth many other Bishops as equals in care with the Pope But then he reckoneth him vp first secoÌ„dly the Bishops of the East afterward Hierome And wheras he termeth Rome the seate of
24 Your scorne at Sir Iohn Calvine may bee easily returned on the best of your side as Sir William Allen Sir Robert Bellarmine but wee must allow you a great deale more then this Your slaunder against Calvine you take word for word from Persons his d Cap. 7. Ward-word against Sir Frauncis Hastinges to which if you please you may reade the aunswere discovering that odious calumniation e O. E. to N. D Cap 7 There you may finde first that Calvine was never Masse-Priest and therefore that Baals servauntes did falsely obiect Priest-hoode vnto him Secondly that Bolsecus the authour of this slaunder did in an open Synode confesse vvith teares that vvithout any grounde he had laide that slaunder on him Thirdlye that the tale is not onelye an vniust imputation but a sottishe and improbable Narration For first there vvas never any such legall punishment by any lavve decreede and secondlie no Recorde or testimonie is of any such matter ever done or suffered by Calvine You may there also finde how truly that crimination doth fall on the Romish generation concerning which pointe my meaning is to forbeare you for a while and nowe to followe you in the present That then these men should leaue the Papacye for feare of censure from Popish Magistrates for that whereof they were no wayes no not so much as in shevve guiltye it your foolishe collection and so much the more absurde because Calvine by your lying reporte had beene punished alreadye Anyethinge yvill serve the turne to keepe this slaunder going You might rather haue saide in behalfe of Luther that since hee vvas so esteemed by the vvhole Vniversitie vvhere hee abode for a great parte of his timeâ—… since his name after his death is honourable amonge them since he was so protected to the hazarde of all his estate by that Noble and wise and vertuous Duke of Saxony it is certaine that no exception can bee taken to his life And for Calvine that since for manye yeares hee lived in so reverende reputation at Geneva vvhere they are so strict against sinne that by the testimony of f Method hist cap. 6 Bodine a Papist no open wantonnes no lasciviousnesse is once permitted there by reason of the austerity of their discipline and that they haue as travellours reporte so sterne a law against lewde malefactours as is scant to be found in all the worlde againe that an offendour flying out of any countrey thither shall there bee subiect to as grievous punishment as he was in his owne land if he be convicted of the crime vnto which severity they are forced least their citty standing neere the dominion of so many Princes and States shoulde bee the common receptacle and sanctuary of all fugitiues and runnagates therefore Iohn Calvin vvas a man of singular honesty of life and every waye vntouchable in his conversation They who are generally so strict woulde not with such high acceptation haue admitted and for so many yeares retained a person notoriously defamed to be the chiefe standdard bearer of their profession vvhereas they might haue had many other vvorthy men and vvithout exception to haue supplyed that roume This tale then commethâ—… from Sathan the father of lyesâ—… Now it is not vpon these persons that vvee doe repose our selues but on that which they bring out of the holy Scripture which being the word of truth and inspired from the Spirit of God we feare not to adventure vpon it our selues our salvation our hope of everlasting blessednesse Neither do wee this headlongly or hare-brainedly as you suppose for we are g Act 26 25 not madde O noble Festus but with our maturest iudgements and most sober vnderstandings we study wee conferre the Scriptures in many languages we pray to God to inlighten vs we looke into the Fathers the Histories the Councels wee compare old things with new we leaue no good meanes vn-attempted to sift and found the truth and stil the farther wee looke the lesse ground we finde for Popety Divines most auncient amongst vs doe more loath it in their olde age then they did in their young Yea we turne the bookes of your writers and exemine their reasones and much adoe wee see they haue to set vp the tower of Babell and yet it cannot be at they would haâ—…e it Nay we hinder not your learned Papists freely at our book-sellerâ—… to buy all bookes of controversies in religion so they bee not mingled with state causeâ—… which course coÌ„cerning the writings of our men you permit not to your learned disciples but interdict them eveÌ„ to many of your Seminary Priests And aboue all this wee are so farre from longing to be in hell that all who are rightly instructed among vs take as great care of the saving of their soules as the deepest Romanist of you with all your Pharisticall and counterfeit hypocrisie 25 When then you make comparison betweene an vniversall consent and that also auncient on the one side and a fewe contemptible authours of novelties on the other side and you double it againe that here be but two or three Novellants and there twenty millioÌ„s of graue holy auncients which inequality say you would sway much with Iudges or with Iuries in Westminster hall we reply that you do but talke at randoÌ„ after your fashion For first Westminster hall is no place for the triall of religion Secondly your men consent not in such sort as you speake their agreement is not so generally spred as a man may see throughout all Bellarmines workes where almost in every question hee citeth different opinions and iudgements of writers in the Papacy and many things wherein Romanists agree are but falshood and you much mistake the number of those who haue and doe oppugne you Thirdelye what you say is anncient is but vpstarte and crept in as a worthy h D. Sutclifs challendge c. 2. man hath of late most learnedly shewed in a tract for that purpose and for the triall of our differences vvee lay the Bible before you then which I trust you will not offer to bring ought more aucient Hee who out of that book can win it in Gods name let him weare it We say with Tertullian i De praescript contra haereâ—… that that is of the Lord true which was first delivered And fourthly vvee doe tell you that multitude is not it vvhich must decide vvhat is trueth Amonge heathen men one k Plutari in Phocyone Phocyon standing single spake more advisedly then all the Atheniens Should Elias be overborne because he was but l 〈◊〉 King 18. 25. one when the Priests of Baal were many Who was the greater company m Ier. 2. 〈◊〉 4. Ieremy or all Hierusalem with the whole land of Iuda If you had beene present at the erecting of the image of n Dan 3. 1. Nabuchodonosor and had seene all the great Princes fall downe before that Idole and the three children stand vp
fight Then if you had your will touching the authority of these controversed books you could not make one quarter of the gaine by them as you suppose but since they are not of the right stampe we may not allow theÌ„ to you Be the matter in theÌ„ for vs or agaiÌ„st vs we may not authorize those for Authentike Scripture which God hath not so authorized In the 2. of the Machabees there is a place against Limbus PatruÌ„ where one of the seven brethren saith p Cap 7 36 My brethren that haue suffered a little paine are now vnder the divine covenant of everlasting life that is to say at that very time inioying it and in possession of it for if it be vnderstood but of the way thither the mother and brother yet remaining aliue were also vnder that covenant of assured hope but we account not of this testimony neither do wee vrge it because the booke whence it is taken is Apocryphal T. HILL FOr Heretikes ever framed the Bible to their opinions changing wresting paring and somtimes flatly reiecting al which made over-plainly against such Doctrine as they devised and so doe most impudently the Protestants now Wheras the Catholikes ever squared their Doctrine by the line and the levell of the Word of her Spouse and therefore never had cause to reiect the least iote of the holy Bible and at one worde the Catholikes followe the Bible but the Protestantes force the Bible to followe them G. ABBOT 5 WHat heretiks do to the Bible or how they intreat it we respect not neither doth it make ought against vs til you haue first proved vs to be heretiks Nay look you well to it whither you do not seclude vs from being heretiks since we do not change wrest pare the Bible We allow al Scripture to be Scripture we wreÌ„ch nothing we alter nothing but avow that our collections and interpretations are consonant to other places of Gods sacred word and in all points material are to be warranted out of some or many of the ancient fathers of the Primitiue Church which when any of you shall iumpe vpon we never refuse to put in trial with you Now that you Pseudo-Catholiks do that indeed wherwith you wrongfully charge vs how can you deny when you admit for q CoÌ„c Triden Sess 4â— authenticall no copy nor translation of the Scripture but the vulgar Latin which hath diverse flawes and gaps in it much being missing which is in the Originall Hebrew Greek When almost in al your r Vaux Catechi Horae beatissim Virginis Catechismes other books you leaue out the second CoÌ„mandement touching Images as too plainly coÌ„vincing your idolatrous carved painted stuffe in Churches So wheÌ„ in the Eucharist you take the Cup froÌ„ the s CoÌ„c Constat Sess 13 people coÌ„trary to Christs institution the relation of the forme of that Sacrament by S. Paule expouÌ„ding s Mat 26. 27 Drinke you all of this to be meant of the Clergy only how do you wrest and pare As when you say that your Masse is a dayly reall sacrifice wheras the t Heb 7 27 cap 10 18 Author to the Hebrews so copiously disputeth that there is no more sacrifice for fin Briefly you do little better then take away all the Bookes of the Bible when for so many yeares togither you willingly suffred not the laity to looke into them And how do you pervert the Scripture to confirme that abuse as when u In Apolog. Staphilus directly applyeth to that purpose the text u Mat 7 6 Giue not that which is holy vnto dogs so accounting the laity to be no better then dogges and swine Yea your great Rabbins Peter x Lib 3 Distinct 25 Lombard the Master of the Sentences Thomas of y Aquin 2. Aquine can finde so much in that place of Iob z 〈◊〉 art 6. The Oxen were plovving and the Asses were feeding in their places taking the oxen plovving to signifie the Priests reading the Scripture the Asses feeding Iob 1. 14. to be the people not troubling their heads with such matters but contenting themselues to beleeue in grosse as the Church and Cleargy do beleeue Are not these sweet men do they not froÌ„ dogs swine Oxen Asses proue their matters handsomely Thus you square your doctrine by the level of the Babilonish harlot no otherwise folowing the Bible verily as many in LoÌ„don do follow the Law when they go to Westminster after the Iudges who know much law but their followers study vnderstand little of it So you sometimes let the Bible stand in your Libraries or studies before you but you look little in it take very small acquaintance of it when any thing commeth to bee questioned you had leifer be tryed by any thing then that and for traditions you wil striue as for your soule knowing they must do the deed in vpholding your Popery or els al wil to the grouÌ„d for in the Scripture it hath no footing But we contrarywise doe teach our people to cary with them Gods booke to read it and meditate on it to try our teachiÌ„gs therby not to force the exposition thereof to their own humour but to the purpose of the holy Ghost And so I leaue you and this your slaunder 6 Here to proceed a litle farther in the matter of this Motiue we are charged as the Reader doth see to offer iniury to the scriptures in denying those to be Canonicall whoÌ„ the Romanists do grace with that name But what is our fault Is it that we do not allow all that to bee of vndoubted authority which is within the coÌ„mon volumes of the Bible Yea that is it as M. Bristow his fellows belike wold say We answer that if this be it the Church of Rome it selfe is gilty of that crime For are there not 2. books which are coÌ„monly called the 3. 4. of Esdras which theÌ„selues evermore coÌ„prise within their Bibles yet repute not Canonical No better triall of this then by the a Session 4â—… Councell of Trent which reckoning vp the sacred Volumes doeth with those vvhich are not controversed yea with those which are past controversie ioyne Tobias â—…dith Wisdome Ecclesiasticus and the two books of the Machabees but of these of Esdras not a word Heere then by the iudgement of that renoumed Synode which curleth as many as ioine not with it some tractes in the Bible are now as good as leaped out of the Bible This fact of theirs wil warraÌ„t our proceedings since by the same reason wherefore they seclude some may more bee shut out if they do deserue it Gentle Genebrard saw this wel and therfore he was desirous although it were but by the head shoulders to haue pulled in these two bookes againe b Lib. 2 Chron An. 3638. postea He therefore more then once is vehement for them would make
of truth but is not to be imagined to say any thing in favour of Hierome with whom he had hote great f â—…nvect coÌ„tra Hieron controversies He there then enumerateth the volumes of Canonicall Scripture even in the same order as we do but disclaimeth Tobias Iudith their fellows then subioyneth this g â—…e symb Apostolor These are they whom the Fathers haue concluded within the Canon out of which they would haue the assertions of our faith to appeare The rest they would haue indeed to bee reade in the Churches yet not to bee produced to get from them the authoritie of faith And then These things haue wee said that thâ—…se vvho doe receiue the first elementes of faith may know from vvhat fountaines of the word of God their draughtes are to bee dravvne So that in these you see the sound substantial iudgment of the most learned in the West Church eveÌ„ in the most ancient daies of it this hath bin coÌ„tinued ever since vntil our time by meÌ„ of the greatest knowledge throughout all ages yea such as were lights in the Church of Rome it selfe Nay h Greg epi ad Leandr sup Iob 5 Gregory himselfe within 600. yeares after Christ accepted of Hieromes translatioÌ„ or Castigation vsing no other but sticking so close therevnto that as a learned man of i D Fulk in prefâ—… Rhem Testam 29. Greg in Evang Hom. 34. ours hath observed it being falsly in that copy DomuÌ„ evertit for domuÌ„ everrit he interpreted it after the erroneous putting And since that time in the Romane Churches that edition is â—…urrant where according to k In prolog Galeato Hieromes distinction there be no more to be found Canonical then those whom we so read I might adde the testimonies of l Prolog in lib Ios Tobiae Hugo of m In vltim â—…sth epist ad Clem y. Caretane after him both men of much learning both Cardinals of the See of Rome as also of the Ordinary Glosseâ—… who in the beginning of those bookes hath thus Here beginneth the booke of Tobias which is not of the CanoÌ„ Here beginneth the booke of Iudith which is not of the Canon and so of the rest Also of n De tradeÌ„ dis discipl 〈◊〉 Vives who secludeth Tobias Iudith some other In breefe I can here alleadge the witnes of many rare and worthy men even of the Popish writers and such as lived long before Luthers daies but I reserue them til some Romanist vrge me farther vnto theÌ„ But out of al this which hath bin said I conclude first that the Popes vassals in the CoÌ„veÌ„â—…cle of Trent were more then audacious incroching vpon God Almighty when they durst to vendicate that authority as to put into the Canon that which lieth open to so many iust exceptions and was repudiated by such so ancient and so many as well of their own as other And secondly that our Iesuits of late as Bellarmine CaÌ„pian our other more vnlearned Papistes as Bristow and the scribler of this Pamphlet with whom I haue to deale are very hard fore-headed when they exclaime vpon vs for doing that which they ought also to do and call vs heretikes for imitating the iudgement so mature and well grounded of such persons Churches But the pity of all pities is that their blinde and deafe disciples our country-men and brethren according to the flesh giue credit to such lies and accept that as the Gospell which when it iâ—… seaâ—…ed doth fly to ragges and fitters THE NINTH REASON Councels T. HILL THE Church of God hath ever beene accustomed when any heresie did spring vp therein to gather a Councell of Bishops Prelates and of other learned men in which the truth was approved the heresie condemned And whosoever were coÌ„demned by such Councels coÌ„firmed by the See Apostolike were ever deemed in very deed were heretikes and for such at length were taken of all men and in the end vanished away So were the Arrians condemned in the Nicene Councell the Macedonians in the Councell of Constantinople the Nestorians in the Ephesine the Eutychians in the Chalcedonian others in other Councels All which heretikes although they flourished for a time and drew manie people yea Emperours Kings States and Countreies after theÌ„ yet in time they came to nothing and the Councels which condemned them were vniversally embraced G. ABBOT THere are two things in the two first Periodes of this your Chapter which although not simplye in themselues yet proceeding â—…om you do deserue admiration For you who were wont to make such large propositioÌ„s as no Papist durst avouch filling your mouth pen with nothing els but All are growne in this Reason vnreasonably modest downe below a great many of your fellowes when first you allow other learned 〈◊〉 besides Bishops Prelates to be of your Councels and secondly you appoint these generall Assemblies not to be called by your Pope but it is inough that they bee confirmed by the See Apostolike But the later of these we ascribe to your good Maister Bristowes such like extenuation vvho hath your very wordes confirmed by the See Apostolike and from one of whose a Brist Motiâ—… 13â—… Motiues abbreviated you borrow the most of this your present Reason and the former we impute either vnto your ignoraunce who know not what your fellowes hold in this pointe or to the ticklenes of the matter it selfe wherin noÌ„e of you with the safety of Popery can define ought but it lyeth subiect to some exceptioÌ„ Some of your meÌ„ wil haue none to haue voice in CouÌ„cels but Bishops so b In enumeratione CocilioruÌ„ Possevinus saith A CouÌ„celis nothing else but a lawfull Congregation of Bishops And it is scant to be found in any of those whom you cite for Synodes that any are named but Bishops as the Nicene c In praesation Concili Nicenâ—… Councel consisted of three hundred eighteene Bishops the d In fine Concil Tridentin Tridentine if we wil take their owne account of two hundred and seventy Bishops vnlesse perhaps the Legates and Oratours of some Princes may bee numbred to be in the Councell who yet haue no voices to ratifie doctrine excepte they bee Bishoppes And yet this shoulde seeme secretly to go somewhat hard even in Campians mind who vseth first a generall word e Ration 4. the Senatours of the vvorld but aftervvard when he hath saide the choice of Bishops he addeth the piâ—…he of Divines Yea f Chronil 4. Genebrard himselfe magnifying the Councel of Laterane aboue all that ever were for number saith that it had in it for cheefe Bishoppe Innocentius the Pope then tvvo Patriarkes him of Constantinople and the other of Hierusalem Arch-bishops Greeke and Latin seventy Bishops 400. Abbots twelve Priours of Covents eight hundred which in all were Fathers 1285. Now whether â—…ese Priours had voices he doth
be deceivid The holy Ghost directeth thē who haue fitted themselues as aledging to intertaine him by good workes But how should he visite them who thwarte the spirite and seeke to extinguish him in other men which in steede of the fire of charity are inflamed with the heat of ambition These will heare nothing which is contrary to their own lust and taste nothing of spirituall giftes and come with a false hart to handle Gods businesses seeking those thinges vvhich are their evvne and not Gods which if Paule coulde say of his time we may much more say of the dregs of our daies With such the holye Ghost is not and such stubborne ones woulde not yeelde to the motions thereof Now if the Spirit bee not with such and the greatest part of Councels consist of such and there the Decrees are made by the maiour parte of voices may not Councels erre I speake not this of the present Councell at Basile for there I heare mante good thinges are handled but yet I heare there bee many things there vvhich shoulds not bee contentions emulations heart-burnings clamours which the Spirite doeth not desire There had neede be good men sent to Councels that God may bee amonge them The ancient Fathers did vse vvith praying fasting and vveeping to begge at Gods hande that his Spirite mighte bee present at Councels amonge them to direct them which they needed not to haue done if they ware sure that hee coulde not bee absent UUee reade in the Scripture that for one mans sinne an armie of Gods freindes hath beene overthrowne One sicke sheepe infecteth a vvhole flocke And since on one mans sentence or voice the vvhole assemblie dependeth may not he both be deceived and deceiue a vvhole Councell To doe all thinges vvell and never to erra is onelye the parte of GOD but the vvorlde knovveth that men are not Gods not Angels but such as of vvhome it is saide All men are lyers They are subiect to passions and ignoraunces which overtake men the more when by vaine pride they vvoulde put them from them If you saie that it resteth not on humane infirmitie but it is of the povver of the holye Ghost that the Councell cannot bee deceived vvho is certaine that vvith the maiour parte of the Councell vvhich must preponderate the holye Ghost is present If you sa◅e it is likelye the spirite is in some sevve and they may vvorke the rest to the right what if the multitude haue deserved to be deceived So Micheas could doe no good on all Achabs Prophets And who knoweth whither the maiour parte of the Councell bee vvorthie to bee deceived or no God in Ieremie did for sake the temple vvherein the levves did trust and hee badde the Prophet that hee shoulde not pray for them for he would not heare him Therefore good mens praiers doe not alvvaies obtaine for the wicked Yea but hee hath promised to bee vvith his Church to the ende of the vvorlde But hee alone knovveth vvho they are that haue grace in his Church The Lorde knovveth vvho are his The Church by grace may remaine in one onelye vvoman as in the time of the passion it did onelye in the Uirgin Marie Shall a Councell now bee of greater authoritye then all the Apostles vvere And yet they all declined at Christes death and vvere afraide Shall is bee greater then all the militant Church of vvhich Augustine saide that heere it cannot bee vvithout spotte or vvrinckle but in the nevv Hierusalem it must be What should be the reason that the foure first Coūcels specially be in such estimation with all but that there were better men then sinca haue bin they framed thēselues to aske what the spirit was willing vnto These late ones are Coūcels of blend assemble about such things as flesh bloud only would haue them Then he telleth the tale how at Rome in a Councell a little before gathered by Iohn the 24. an Owle appeared looking directly vpō the Pope to the amasemēt of some to the great scorne of other Then he proceedeth By the vnworthines of the head or the maior part the Coūcel may misse of a good end other such causes there may be as too much listning to tēporal peace or too much presūptrē of their own grace wisdome or negligence of looking into the word of God It is good therfore that they who meete in such assemblies be not too bold In another q Tract priore de materia Conc. Generalis treatise of this same argumēt he had warned before that men should not say as of likelyhood some did Wee are a Generall Councell let vs goe to it boldelye vv◅ cannot erre What Papist will not think that this man in the matter of Coūcels is more a Calvinist thē Calvin himselfe Let these reasons be well waighed and then iudge whither too much bee to be attributed to Councels besids those flawa cracks which I formerly mentioned as who are to call Councels who are to haue voices in Councels whither the Pope be to be subiected to a Councell or no which the Pope and all his flatterers cannot endure 15 He who list to knowe more of the Popes challenge touching his owne calling and overbalancing Councels let him looke the censure of r Hist. Hussit l. 9 Cochleus vpon the Synode at Basile There hee affirmeth that assembly to be but a Conciliable or Conventicle after that Pope Eugenius had given out his summons that hee woulde haue that meeting to bee removed to Ferrara first but afterward to Florence else there had beene at one time two general Councels and consequently two Churches Also that the fathers at Basile with their Antipape Felix were for eight yeares in a schisme against Eugenius and yet they gaue out that they had the holy Ghost among them That to call a Councell by ancient right belongeth to the Bishop of Rome That it pertayneth not to sheepe to iudge their shepheard But Eugenius himselfe with more maiesty and Pope-like state could say s Ibidem To that robbery at Basill all the Divels of the world doe seeme to haue come togither To these bracks about Councels this one farther may be ioyned that they say a Councell is not good vnlesse the Pope confirme it For now how shall we know whether a Synode bee confirmed or no vnlesse there be some Bull or Decree published concerning that particular since s In Iudice Concilio◅ Possevinus the Iesuit in rekoning vp the Councels nameth foure at A◅les one at Laodicea fiue at Orleans and divers other which he saith are of greate authority for although an open confirmation of them be not founde yet they are allowed of by a secret consent of the Church and the Popes and Doctors citing them This is a point which may breede great difficulty whither that be inough to ratifie a Synode or no. Also it were good that before we make Coūcels a matter of beliefe we were
In 1. King 14. second place so much hee doth and no more But in a u Homil 34 in quadraâ—… 〈◊〉 third he not only hath these distinctioÌ„s of Angels but he alleageth for it Dionysius also that by the name of Areopagita calliÌ„g him an ancieÌ„t venerable Father But this is a single testimony al other of more antiquity make against him he may be supposed to do it doubtfully since naming the matter thrise he speaketh of Denis but once And moreover Gregory lived 600. yeares after Christ by which time this bastard might be a huÌ„dred or two huÌ„dred yeare old with some might be esteemed authentical which Gregory might take vp froÌ„ theÌ„ without farther examinatioÌ„ He who list to see this Denis farther discovered quite discarded let him look that noble u Lib. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Moâ—…ney writiÌ„g touching the Masse if he be not impudeÌ„tly refractary he shall be sileÌ„ced in this point for ever Thus you are like to make good work with your Fathers when the first of your tale is filâ—… populi a bastard seed which cannot inherite What you say of Ignatius ClemeÌ„s Iustâ—… TertulliaÌ„ Cyprâ—… Irâ—…us all the Fathers is a vain Popish Pilcher-like bragge which is ordinary with such crakers as you are till you cite some particular deserveth no answere but to be denied If you meant truely to your Readers you would cite them somewhat for their mony T. HILL THis is very plaine in that the Cathâ—… are put compelled by the Protestants to defend 〈◊〉 vpâ—…la the â—…dit authority of thâ—… said Fathers for the Protestantes raile as them the Catholikes defend them the Protestants refuse their authority the Catholikes holde iâ—… for 〈◊〉 the Protestants will not be â—…yed by them the Catholikes appealâ—… to their iudgement and to be bâ—…fe the Protestants make no more acâ—…te of them longer then they can wrest them to serue their 〈◊〉 thâ—… they dâ—… of Bevis of Southampton or of Adam Bell. And in 〈◊〉 the Protestantes I include all the Puriâ—…es for I am not ignorâ—… how the sâ—… Protestants are driven by the said Puritanâ—… to defende thâ—… Fathers and also are called Papistes for their labour And â—…re by iâ—… iâ—…â—…fest that the Fathers are with the Catholikes and â—…her 〈◊〉 the Protests â—…r 〈◊〉 And vvhither all thâ—… 〈◊〉 being men of exceâ—… wits of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of â—…rfull lâ—…ing servent in praier holy in conversation greatly in Gods favour mighty in working of miracles and adorned with many such like giftes vvere more like to vnderstands the Scriptures freshlie delivered vnto them from the Apostles theÌ„selues who also no doubt taught their scholors the true sence thereof and they theirs from one age to another or these late foolishe vnstudied vnlearned prophane and arregant fellowes bee iudges your selues G. ABBOT 3 TILL you came to this Period you spake something of your owne peradventure but now you are apparantly become but eveÌ„ a plaine truÌ„ke to cary along what your M. x Motiv 14 Bristow putteth into you froÌ„stealing out of whose booke you cannot coÌ„taine if your hands were bouÌ„d behind you If hee then lash lye you thinke you may do so also as lying safe vnder his shilde But his target is no thicke one as that y â—…vid Meâ—…amorph Lib 13 seveÌ„-folde buckler of Aâ—…ax was but made of thinne browne paper therfore wil not beare out one blowe I pray you where are you forced to vphold the Fathers credite against the Protestants railing at theÌ„ or who of the Protestants be they that give them not the same right which God would haue to be giveÌ„ vnto theÌ„ or which they theÌ„selues desired should be allotted vnto their writiÌ„gs We hold them their labours to be great instruments of the setting forth of Gods glory we esteeme it as a good blessing froÌ„ aboue that the Lord hath left their labors as monuments to his church wherein we not only know what was done taught in the first ages of the christiaÌ„ world but may be helped also many waies in the vnderstaÌ„ding of Scriptures beating downe of divers heresies And our men do study theÌ„ are as copious frequent in theÌ„ as Papists be which if you will you may see in the bookes of Bishop Iewel D. HuÌ„fry D. Folke Peter Martyr CheÌ„nicius yea M. Calvins InstitutioÌ„s to say nothing of divers now liviÌ„g Truth it is that when our men made the true touch-stoÌ„e only absolute Iudge of coÌ„troversies to be the Scripture Harding his coÌ„panions in effect flying froÌ„ that would needes beare the world in hand that if the triall might be by the Fathers the victory was certainly theirs Whervpon in England as also in other places before they who stood for reformation refusing theÌ„ at no weapon ioyned with them there and now as persons of desperate deplorate misery you haue nothing to helpe you but by foisting and iugling in chaungelings vpstarts counterfeits in steed of vndoubted ones by razing and curtolling and clipping the works of those reverend meÌ„ as anone I shal shew you It is therfore a grosse slauÌ„der that we do raile at them or that we do wrest them Where there is iust cause we as men z Horat. l. 11 Apistol 1 Nullius adâ—icti iurare in verba magistri bound to stand to the opinion of none but of the holy Ghost we declining-wise do leave theÌ„ but where they subscribe to the authority of God there we subscribe to them defend them refuse not to be tried by them so farre as we may by any holy learned men of which sort we hold them but yet stil know them to be men As for Bevis of Southampton Adam bell we hold to be but fictions such as were devised in the time of Popery and thought fitte then togither with other Legends to be imparted to the people that when they should rather haue looked into the word of God if they might haue bin suffered they being busied with such toies might not grow to be of such Christian vnderstaÌ„ding as to espy the idolatries collusions of the Clergy When a maÌ„ who speaketh vntruth coÌ„meth to examinatioÌ„ his tongue faltereth in his mouth his tale crosseth it selfe So doth yours who attempting both to soupe and blow at once make no bones to speake as good as flat coÌ„tradictions Simul forbere flare Eraâ—m in Adage In the one sentence the Protestante raile at theÌ„ refuse their authority make no more account of theÌ„ then of Adam Bel in the next the Protestants are driven by the Puritanes to defend the Fathers they are called Papists for their labour So they do defend them not defend them They raile on them yet speake for them This is one of the riddles fit for b Terent. in Andrias Oedipus And yet the Fathers are against both the Protestants the Puritanes And why then I request you do the ProtestaÌ„ts
in his Cōmētaries on the Prophets you cānot deny so it overturneth your reasō that those who were neerest to the Apostles should do best by taking it fresh frō thē so frō hand to hand For some of the later did not only equall but farre exceed those who were their fore-runners as Chrysostome in the Greeke Church may shewe Yet vnderstand all this that we haue no matter of moment in any point of religion nor scant any interpretation of Scripture but wee vndertake to advouch it from some or more of the Fathers in one place or other of their writings where they hādle those things It is Popery which lately crept in that hath with the Glosses therof declined both the sēce of the holy Ghost of the old Fathers while the pleasures of Popes the quiddities of the barbarous schoolmē have perverted almost the whole face of Divinity brought it to curious speculatiōs vnprofitable questiōs Whē you put it to trial you shal see that we are not so destitute of the Fathers for the proofe of our religion the exposition of texts nor so altogither vnstudied and illiterate as you in your weake vnderstanding imagine vs. Touching the imputation of profanenesse you shall heare of me heereafter Luther in capt Bap. Causaeus vbi supra Centuriat centur 2 c 10. Calvin instit cap 13 num 29. Centur 2 cop 5 Causaeus dialog 8 11 6 Bez◅ in Act Apost cap 23. T. HILL BUT indeede it is no marveile though the Protestants do contēne yea revile the Fathers in saying they taught thinges most like to dreames they were doating olde men they had foule blemishes and tolde trifling tales they had weedes and dregges blaspemies and monsters they were childish dull and destitute of God and babbled they knew not what they were bewitched of the Devil as damned as the Devill blasphemers naughtie wicked G. ABBOT 5 HEere you bring a prety beade-roll of such fragmēts as you have scraped to gither out of some of our side who as you thinke haue perstringed diverse of the Fathers or at least by your perverting or distorting of their wordes you would haue the world to thinke that they haue shrewdly galled thē Wherin you are much to be cōmēded that to make the better shew both in your text margēt you bring vs the same things quotatiōs againe out of Causaeus Luther which in this very Chap. but one leafe before you delivered vnto us This is no rare matter in your writers for your n In Matth. 16 18 Rhemists play a pretier part then that when meaning to spare for no cost to prooue Peter to be such a rocke ason whō the Church is principall built they thwacke authority vppon authority to as good purpose as they can And therfore they haue in the margēt S. Austen Serm. 26. de Sanctis and in the text S. Ambrose Serm. 68. which are both but one Sermō put in the workes of both those Fathers but in truth belonging to neither of thē Which must needs shew that Papists in their greatest matters doe either proceede idly or else of purpose they do bodge with their folowers citīg one for two as if a man should saye that in Pompeyes time o Luc lib 3◅ Plut. in Cesar Iulius broke vp the treasury at Rome and tooke out much mony and one Caesar about the same time broke open the same treasury therevpon should conclude that therfore the Treasury was twise forcibly entred into when lulius Caesar was al but one man What Luther spake was not against a Father but a counterfeit not against Dionysius Areopagita but against some meane fellowe shrowding himselfe vnder his name In K. Henry the 7. time a man might wel haue taunted p Holinshed in Henri 7. Perkin Warbeck yet not haue offended against the roial bloud in the children of K. Edwarde the 4. And the same is to be said for Causaeus who is to be imagined not to say ought against true Dionysius but against that doater who vsurpeth that name Now howe shameful a matter is it for you to bring in these as railing against the Doctors whē by distinguishing this false one frō those who be right they do coūtenāce the true as much as they discoūtenāce the fained He who saith that false mony is but brasse or copper doth not speak evil of the kings lawful wartantable coine Your first fault against the Magdeburgenses is taken out of the second q Cap. 10. Century where being ex instituto to giue their censure on the writers of that age they yeeld vnto thē al their due cōmendation of zeale in Gods cause of diligēce in preaching writing of fortitude in oppugning heresies of enduring martyrdome They shew also to what points of religiō they do speake taking on thē to shew what is amisse in divers of thē they vse these words As that the Epistles of Ignatius haue in thē some things which do seeme to incline to deformed blemishes You might haue marked that before that speech they haue doubted of the credit authority of some of those Epistles whither they properly belong to Ignatius or no. So in Papias they say there was naevus a blemish also that Clemens Alexandrinus Athenagoras had their blemishes And so of Iustinus Martyr What word can be more gently spoken then to say they had their blemishes the truth being so in such sort as no Papist can excuse it For that I may say nothing of divers things foūd in thē which with you cā be no lesse thē disputable but with vs are reputed no sound doctrine neither of some other plaine errours it is apparant that divers of thē as Papias Iustinus Martyr did hold the Millinary heresie for the same are taxed by the Century writers That which you mētiō of trofling tales if you apply it to thē is worthy to be laughed at for they haue no word of anie such matter in all that Chapter vnlesse you take it out of their narration concerning Phocas of whō they say that they passe oversome things reported by r Lib 10 Vincentius inspeculo because they seeme to be fables And what doth this detract frō the Fathers among whō I trust you put not Vincentius Phocas did vvrite nothing for ought that wee finde And it is not impossible that such a Legendary felow as Vincentius is may tel a tale of S. Hierom S. Ambros or S. Austē yet the reputatiō of these Doctors be among learned men never the worse Of Ireneus the Magdeburgenses say most mildly that he hath certaine inconvenient opinions as stubble they cite this for one which I beleeue no sober Papist will hastily mainetaine that Christ was baptized at thirty yeares of age preached at fortye and vvas crucified at fiftye And that hee helde the errour of the Chiliasts or Millenaries 6 The secōd place which you cite out of the
the gilt as if they had never coÌ„mitted any such facts This confidence maketh the life of many of your false named Catholikes to be a coÌ„tagious sinke of execrable lewdenes no pen being able to paint out their filthines which as elswhere it may be exemplified so principally in Rome that singular cage of foule and vncleane birdes I was once in Oxford present with two prisoners coÌ„victed of a murther the one was named Parrhy a kinsman of the great traitour Doctour Parrhy the other was called Richardson When this Parrhy after many villanies in England and beyond the seas had finally as a robber murthered vpon the way a drover carying with him good store of mony it much grieved his fellow Richardson theÌ„ being in coÌ„pany that Parrhy had slaine the maÌ„ Richardsons coÌ„science as himselfe reported to me other could in no sorte be appeased about the fright remorse therof Parrhy bad him not dismay himselfe but prepare as soone as he could to fly after him into Ireland for thither indeede the principal murtherer was hastening and from thence they would to Rome where he had been with his vncle Doctor Parrhy before and knewe the fashions of the place there hee vndertooke to get a pardon of his Holinesse and all should be as wel as if it had never beene This Parrhy tould mee that he had beene a Page to a Cardinal in Rome an attendant on the Duke of Guize slaine by the commaundement of Henry the third of Fraunce and of garde to the Duke of Parma and therefore may bee well supposed to have knowne Popishe fashions And of certainty he lived aâ—… Romanist and so professed himselfe at the time of his execution I could adde more examples of this nature shevving that Papistes vvant no incouragementes to sinne 18 On the contrary part we simply and absolutely dehorte our people from all crimes laying the iudgments of God before such as transgresse in the same VVe lay vnto them the texte of the Apostle that the k Gal. 5 19 vvorkes of the fleshe are adulterie fornication vncleannesse vvantonnesse Idolatrie vvitchcraftâ—… hatred debate emulations vvrath contentions seditions heresies envy murthers drunkennesse gluttony and they who doe such thinges shall not inherite the kingdome of God And that l Hebr 13 4. Whoremongers and adulterers God will iudge That as m De ieiunio christi Cyprian telleth vs Fornicatours and adulterers haue thee Sathan for their suggestour they shall have thee for their tormentour revenging flames shall burne both thee and them Concerning gluttony wee put them in minde of Christs speech n Luc 21 Take heede vnto your selves least at any time your harte bee oppressed vvith surfetting and drunkennesse and cares of this life and that daye came on you vn-avvares And of that in Saint Paule o Rom 13 13 Let vs walke honestly as in the day not in gluttony and drunkennesse neither in chambering nor wantonnesse To which may bee ioyned that of S. Ambrose p De Noe Arca c 9. What is more vnseemely then evermore to bee attending to the belly which when it is filled is to be emptied when it is emptied is to be filled againe Touching ambitioÌ„ we stirre meÌ„ vp that they should imitate the modesty of q Iohan 1 20 Iohn the Baptist who tooke no honour to himselfe but resigned it al to his master Christ. And the humility of S. Paul who avouched of himselfe his felowes t r1 Thes 2 6 Neither sought we praise of meÌ„ neither of you nor of others But especially the meekenesse of Christ our blessed Lord who being vrged by his kinsmeÌ„ to shew some s Ioh 7 3 miraculous works so to make himselfe famous refused would not coÌ„desceÌ„d to their humourous motion And for the repressing of this sin we cite that of S. Bernard s De considerat ad Eugen lib. 3 1 O ambitioÌ„ the very crosse of those who be ambitious how doest thou torturing al please al Nothing doth vex more bitterly nothing doth disquiet more troublesomly yet amoÌ„g wretched meÌ„ there is nothing more ordinary theÌ„ the exercises therof Lastly for Covetousnes we say with Christ t Luc 12 〈◊〉 Take heede and beware of covetousnesse for though a man haue abundance yet his life standeth not in his riches And with Saint Paule u 1. Tim 6 10. The love of mony is the roote of all evill vvhich vvhile some lusted after they erred from the faithâ—… and perced themselves through with many sorrowes And wee thinke it not amisse to remember the covetous person of that in Saint Augustine u Aâ—…g in Psal. 123 Take with thee to hell that vvhich thou hast gotten VVhat vvilt thou does Thou hast gotten golde thou hast lost thy faith After a fevve daies thou departest out of this life The golde vvhich thou hast gotten vvith the losing of thy faith thou caâ—…st not take with thee Thy harte which is voide of faith goeth forth to paines which if it had bâ—…n full of faith should have gone out to a crowne These the like doctrines out of the holy Scriptures Fathers we do daily lay open to our hearers against these sins Our Sermons and bookes are full of them and on the other side we stirre them vp to chastity to sobriety to temperance to humility to bounty toward the poore and therefore your reporte in this behalfe is a matter verie ordinarie vvith you and yours but in the presence of God and men a most malicious slaunder 19 You haue bin bold with vs already making small spare and lesse conscience to laye vpon vs any vniust imputation and the fowler the more pleasing to you and nowe forward you goe in the same that is in your owne vaine We must needs contemne S. Basile S. Chrysostome S. Hierome and S. Augustine Howe farre are we from despising them the excellent lights of the Primitive Church the noble instruments of Gods glory in their time may be gathered from that which I have said before froÌ„ our reading and studying of them from the manifold printing revising of them by men of our side that in diverse places from our vsing of them in disputations our citing of them in the pulpit Neverthelesse it is not to be expected that your malice should ever saye well S. Basile wee reckon a famous Bishoppe of the East x Gregor Naz. orat 30 brought vp at Athens so coÌ„pleted with humane literature the equal love deere coÌ„panion of that Gregory Nazianzen who for his high mystical knowledge in Divinity was thought worthy to be called with an excellency Theologus whose worke touching the y Basil Hexâ—…meroÌ„ 6. daies of the creatioÌ„ seemed so admirable that S. Ambrose was coÌ„tented to imitate it yea almost to make himselfe onely a traÌ„slatour of it The golden streames of S. Chrysostomes eloquence wee hold wel neere incomparable his frequent similitudes
English Papist to shew out of the Fathers of the first sixe hundred yeeres diverse pointes of Popery as their private Masse or that the cōmuniō was administred but in one kind or that publike praiers were saide in a language not vnderstood or that the Pope was called the vniversal Bishop or the head of the church or that mē were taught this faith that the body of Christ was contained in the Sacrament substantially really corporally carnally or that Christes body was at once in a thousand places or that there was elevatiō adoratiō of the Eucharist diverse such other matters which the Bishop did constantly deny not to be knowen or taught in those times of the first Church The substance of this h An. 1560 Sermon made at Paules Crosse did D. Humfrey rehearse writing the life of the saide M. Iewel and afterward interserting his ovvne iudgement concerning many matters in difference hee groweth to this head that the onely exacte way of reformation of abuses of determination of truth is the vvorde of GOD that it alone is to bee made the iudge Vppon vvhich insisting hee inferreth that therefore Maister Iewell gaue too much and yeelded to the Papistes more then equity and was too iniurious to himselfe when hee tooke not the surer easier shorter course of triall by the Scriptures alone but gaue larger scope of expatiating into the Councels Fathers But most absurdly is your Popish conclusion gathered out of this that therfore D. Humfrey knew or confessed that the Fathers of the Primitiue Church were against vs and him You should rather haue inferred thus much that D. Humfrey thought that M. Iewell had a sure matter in hand when needing to referre all but to the Scriptures he appealed also to the Fathers that both by the witnesse of God and man he might avouch his assertions In case of triall for land we know that authentical writings and evidences are the best and most absolute meanes of deciding right but if he who oweth and possesseth the writings knowing the integritie of his cause shall not refuse also to haue his quarrell tried by the testimonies of indifferēt mē in the coūtrey he hath departed so much from his owne right and done more then he need to do If then his friend shoulde say that therein hee hath yeelded to more then meete and did himselfe a wrong by it by yeelding his adversary many exceptions wheras he might haue tyed him onely to one should not a stander by make an absurd collectiō if he should gather vpon this that the litigants friend savv well that the witnesse of the Countrey would goe against him And especially when he whom it most concerneth shall by the testimony of those to whom he appealed make good all his asseverations This was the Bishops case and no otherwise then thus was it reported by the Venerable Doctour And albeit this may appeare to bee thus to every one who will read the narration yet because Bristow Campian and you take it all one from another and other may yet take it farther your people be still abused as if so learned a man as D. Humfrey had both disliked M. Iewels words and given sentence touching the Fathers against vs for the farther satisfaction of the Reader I desire these thinges to be marked First that Doctour Humfrey in that booke concerning M. Iewell as also in his i Secund pars Iesuitis other against Campian doth frequently cite the old Fathers for vs in all questions of difference that occurre Ergo he doth not thinke that the Doctors are all on the Papists side and not on the Protestants Secondly that in'all his Lectures Disputations and Sermons he was most copious in citing and alleaging the ol◅ Fathers to confirme our doctrine and to enervate Papistry as not only we may remember who often heard him but divers of our Fugitiues now beyond the Seas who were of his time in this Vniversity Thirdly to this particular that in the very k Fol. 124 place where he speaketh of the Bishops challenge he putteth these wordes before And here is necessarily to be repeated that Protestation or denunciation which was heard out of this place of Paules Crosse which our adversaries doe calumniate to bee vaine and frivolow which notwithstanding they will not deny to be true who are of the better sort of wit and of more excellent learning Can a man speake plainer then the Doctour doth here iustifying that to be true which the Bishop said and calling the adversaries exception to the Challenge a calumniation Fourthly that in the l Fol. 212 place where he saith that M. Iewell yeelded too much when he went to farther triall then the Bible he subioineth this Which he did not willingly but yet he did it not besides the purpose that he might s◅ay you with the testimonie of your Fathers as with your owne sword He calleth the Fathers yours not because he thought them so to be but as Ironically because you bragge of them as if they vvere yours Thus doeth the vanity of this slaunderous cavill appeare to every one who will not wilfully close his eies against truth then for all this forged obiection the Fathers shall as wel be ours as yours T. HILL ANdyet because they haue found by experience that to teach Doctrine contrary to the anciant Fathers soundeth but badly in the peoples eares in their Sermons they gladly nowe and then alleage the authoritie of some Doctour or Father when they can by any meanes wringe or wrest any p◅ece of a sentence so as it may seeme to make for them And indeed he who alleadgeth the Doctours most is most praised of the audience as you well know which is a pittifull thing in them and ridiculous in the Preacher who cānot but know if he haue read any of them himselfe that the Fathers detest vtterly that Doctrine which he wresteth them to confirme and in the meane time the poore audience thinketh that they were of this new Religion whose simplicity is therein most pitifully abused by the Preacher G. ABBOT 23 YOur hatred to the Gospell maketh you easily giue sinister interpretations to our actions We mencion the Fathers in our Sermons to shew that our expositions of Scripture are not singular and m 2. Pet. 1. 20 private interpretations but such as were received in the Primitiue Church to convince the Antichristian enemy who like Iack Bragger boasteth of antiquity when in comparison of Gods booke his beliefe is nothing else but noveltie It is not because wee woulde blinde the eies of the people or stoppe their eares since as you say to teach doctrine contrary to those Auncients soundeth ill for if there be iust cause we plainly and evidently shew where we dissent from them Which wee doe being warranted by the word of God which n Galat 1 8 teacheth vs that if an Angell come from heaven and preach otherwise then the Apostles haue preached
we should hold him accursed And incited there vnto by some of the Fathers themselues in open wordes by other in their Orthodoxe meaning For what Father woulde dare to thinke that his speeches shoulde over-rule the Scripture As for wringing and wresting and straining we detest it Gods truth needeth not to be vpheld by vntruthes We leaue that to the masons of the Popes part who had need vse such supporters to vnder-proppe the rotten and dayly falling ruines of their Antichristian kingdome Now whereas you tell vs that he is most praised of the Auditory who most alleageth the Doctors you had need to help your selfe with more then one distinctiō For among sober wise hearers it is wel accepted when the Fathers are cited to good purpose orderly but some other there be who thinke themselues no meane folkes which on a humorousnesse and because their Preachers are ignorant that way they I meane those ignorant Pastours haue taught them so like not to heare them quoted in the Pulpit Againe the wisest congregation doth not approue of the preposterous vsing of them as vvhen they are cited frequently and yet onely in Latine or Greeke and not Englished to the edification of the people vvhich Saint o 1. Cor. 14. 26. Paule vvoulde ever have aimed at Or vvhen they are hudled one vppon anothers necke vvithout cause Or vvhen they are multiplyed rather for ambition then vppon desire of fruite or vtility You might have considered vppon these thinges but you vvith the Crocodile or Hyena fall rather to a counterfeite commiseration that it is a pityfull thinge that the people shoulde bee made beleeve that the Doctours vvere of the same opinion that vvee are in religion You may doe well to taxe those men who in their Sermons have abused or perverted the sentences of those grave and learned personages Of the two you should rather pity your Papisticall Congregations vvhich are little troubled vvith Scriptures or Doctours but vvith such miracles and fabulous Legendes as your Friers doe lay before them and nothing else So are they turned to puddle waters in steede of the cleere streaming fountaine of the vvater of life That our Preachers who have reade any of the Fathers themselves doe know that they make against that vvhich they preache is an idle suspicious surmise of your owne and nothing else but a falling backe by a Nugatio to that vvhich you formerly have spoken It is one of the highest breaches of conscience for a man standing in the place of God to speake to the people there to vrge that vvhich in his ovvne harte hee knoweth contrary to truth This is inough for Bellarmine and such desperate wretches vvho for a Cardinals hat or some other expectation have solde themselves and their soules to their LORD God the Pope and his LORD God the Devill 24 I haue all this time traced the steppes of a bolde and malicious adversary but now I rather apply my pen to give satisfaction to the doubtfull Reader concerning this maine question Our Popishe writers speake in grosse of the Fathers but what themselves in speciall determine of them they dare not open So much paines therefore ◅s is expedient I purpose to take for them First then I aske them vvill they haue vs accept of all thinges which these learned Doctors haue taught Graunt this and then many bee the heresies vvhich wee must maintaine hovve many were there of them vvhich imagined that the godly after the resurrection should raigne on the earth and that but for the space of a thousand yeeres in all worldly felicity which is the errour of the Chiliasts or Millenary heretikes So dreamed Irenaeus and is taxed for it by p Eccl. Hist. lib 3 33 Eusebius In this conceite also was Tertullian drenched as appeereth by his disputation against q Lib. 3. Marcion VVith the same also vvas Iustinus Martyr tainted as is evident by his Dialoge with Tryphon the Iewe. Yea this opinion descended so lowe that Lactantius vvho lived in the daies of Constantine the Greate vvas not r Divin Iustit l. 7 14◅ free from it Doth not Eusebius s Eccl. Hist lib 6. 11. note it concerning Clemens Alexandrinus that hee doth much comment vpon Apocryphal matters as if they were Scripture How many were the heresies of Tertullian while in all his later workes he raveth vpon the Paraclete of Montanus to the which fantasticall opinion hee was most grossely vvedded One vvhile he thinketh that s Tertul. de Monogamia second mariages are altogither vnlawfull in the Church Another while he frameth a t De ◅uga in persecutione booke that it is not lawful for any Christian to flie at all in the heate of persecution Saint u Epist 157 Austen observeth truly of him that hee contended that the soules of men were not spirits but bodies that they haue their original of bodily seedes Yea so farre he went awry that u Contr. Helvidium Hierome saith of him plainely Of Tertullian I say nothing more but that hee was not a man of the Church VVith him I ioyne Origene who continually almost in his commentaries on the old Testament doth not only by Allegories pervert the literal sence of the stories but sometimes in expresse termes saith that x In Exod. Hom. 1 2 6 in the literal meaning the narration cānot be true which is an exceeding iniury to the Spirit of God Another while he will have the y De Principij l. 3. 6. Devill all the Reprobates albeit they suffer hel torments for a space yet at the last to be saved which doctrine z In ◅on 3 Hierome doth most iustly perstringe howsoever in another treatise he give him his due commēdation for some matters saying a Libr N◅min Hebraicor No man but hee vvho is ignoraunt doth denye that Origene after the Apostles vvas a maister of the Church But for that opinion b Lib 2 Ex pol. in 1 Regum Gregory did not suffer him to goe vvithout his censure Origene saith hee vvhile hee would see without the word of the Lord the Lord appeering hee savve the cloude inordinately because hee vvas afraid at the appeering of the fire For while denying the very least iustice of God he did proclaime his clemency to bee more then needed hee affirmed that hee woulde not onely spare condemned men but also one daye hee woulde deliver the reprobate Angels from everlasting punishment Another of c Commēt super lohannem Origens fancyes vvas that Christ did dye not to redeeme men onely but the starres of heaven He who would see more of his errours may reade d In Ancorat◅ Epiphanius where he passeth not without his taxe but especially let him looke e Lib 1 Theophilus Alexandrinus where his heresies are cited out of his owne works there he hath the severest sētence that may be pronoūced vpō him which is only in Gods hād to give Caesarius
sheweth by what sinister meanes such came to bee reputed Fathers who were more fit to bee taken for children 29 Fourthly I name that which is most horrible of all other even a manifest evidence of a desperate cause and that vvhich is rotten at the roote VVherein the impudency and shamelesse fore-head of the vvhore of Babylon and her Peeres can never sufficientlye bee exclaimed vppon albeit heaven and earth and all the creatures therein bee called to vvitnesse For hath this Antichristian broode so longe fledde from the Scriptures to the Fathers and haue they and doe they so crake of these every where and are they nowe forced to raze them and pare them and blurre them else they cannot hould vp their irreligion This is the case of vvhich I desire all my weake and abused country-men to take notice In the Conventicle of Trent there were certaine u Index Expurgar Belgic in Regul CoÌ„cil Tridentini rules made vvhich openlye did pretend the purging and clensing of bookes from hereticall matters but secretly intende more even to raze out what they thinke fitte out of olde or newe as their practise in this behalfe doth testifie vvhich is vvarranted by the covert orders there concluded For this businesse in diverse places of the Papacy vvere secretly appointed some of their owne stampe men conscience-lesse and fitte for any vile acte to revise as well the Fathers as later bookes of all sortes and vvhatsoever made against Popery and could not handsomely bee glosed should vppon the newe printing of the bookes by Printers in Popishe places bee cunningly altered or quite lefte out This must bee done notwithstanding that all the copies even formerly printed by themselves and many written ones in their libraries and as many in ours did plainely shevve the contrarie Yea though marveilous store of copyes vvritten hundreds of yeeres before vvhen as neither Luther nor Hus nor Wiclefe vvere yet borne did concurre in that for which we plead Heere-vppon closely vvas dravvne first u An 1571. one Index Expurgatorius by the vvarrant of Philippe the second King of Spaine and of the Duke of Alva Governour of the Lovve Countryes for him There in the Kinges letters patentes prefixed before the booke charge is given that in every city where booke-sellers dvvell there shoulde bee some Prelates appointed to supervise all noted bookes and that x Diploma Regis Catholici Belgic they should have vvith them privatelye and no other men knovving of it one Index Expurgatorius vvhich they shoulde neither communicate vnto others nor graunt a copy of it to any man but only shall most diligently take care of that that they inquire vppon expunge and restore the places before spoken of According to this were al the new printed bookes proceeded withall by them and our men not knowing the mystery wondred at those things which were left out and altered but could not gesse at the true cause till about fifteene y An 1587 yeeres after Franciscus Iunius by Gods speciall providence light vpon one of them and published it to the vvorlde Sutable to this vvas there by the commaundement of Pope z An. 1572. Pius the 5. a Censure vpon the Glosses of the Canon Lawe closely framed by Frier Thomas Manriq Maister of the holy and Apostolike Palace and the same by the a An 1580 mandate of Pope Gregory the 13. was afterward reviewed by Sixtus Faber also Maister of the same Palace Apostolike and according therevnto were the Glosses of the Canon Lavv printed all thinges being blotted out which made against the Romishe faith This also vvas concealed as the Index Expurgatorius had beene before till that b An 1599 latelye Doctour Iohn Pappus mette vvith it and published it to the view of all vvho vvill reade it I finde also c F. Gregor Capuch in libris Corrig fol 166 mention of a Censure concerning certaine Authours vvhich vvas put out in Spaine in the yeere 1562. but the booke it selfe is not yet come for ought that I knowe to anye of our handes But after that by the meanes of Gaspar Quiroga Cardinall and Archbishoppe of Toledo beeing also cheefe Inquisitour in Spaine d An 1584 Madriti apud Alphons Gomezium RegiuÌ„ Typograph there was printed another Index Librorum Expurgatorum which was not without the advise of the highe Sonate of the holy Generall Inquisition This booke also vvas unknovvne to any Protestant vntill that her late Maiesties forces taking the tovvne of e An. 1596 Calez in Spaine there vvas one of these Indices founde there vvhich beeing brought into England was by a f M. Tho. Iames. man carefull to laye open such fraudes sent to the L. of Plessis into Fraunce vvho keeping the originall in his ovvne Library g An 1601 printed it at Saumure and made it knowne to the bodye of Christendome In the beginning of this edition it is shevved that they thrust out diverse thinges of their ovvne vvriters as out of the vvoorkes of Osorius Ferus a booke called h Edit Venetijs An 1576. Ordo Baptizandi cum modo visitandi Yea out of the Glosse on Epiphanius and from the Tables in the endes of the woorkes of Chrysostome Hilary Hierome Cyril of Alexandria vvhen notvvithstanding the matters to bee put out and razed are either literally or in sence apparantly and not to bee spoken against in the Texte of those Fathers Nay in the Index of the Bibles put out by Robert Stephanus these propositions must bee blotted out as suspect i Ioh 11. 26 Hee vvho beleeveth in CHRIST shall not dye everlastingly k Act. 15. 9. By faith the heartes are purified l Gal. 2. 16 UUee are iustified by faith in Christ Christ is m 1. Con 1 30. our righteousnesse No n Ps 143. 2 man is righteous before God o 1 Cor 7â—… 2. Every man may have his wife wheras yet notwithstanding they are the very worde of GOD as may bee seene in the places quoted 30. Last of all for ought that is yet come to our knowledge there was a treatise p Venetijs An 1597 apud lo Baptistam lo Bernardum Sessam Concerning bookes to bee corrected put out by Fâ—…ter Gregory a Capuchine Neopolitane intituling himselfe Purger of the bookes at Naples This fellow doth frequently make mention of the Censure put out in Spaine Anno 1562. 1584. is much more peremptory then it or any other whom I haue seene I will breefely lay downe some things that I finde in him Speaking then of q Litera F. fol. 153 Frauncis Petrarcha thus he saith Let there bee put out the foure expositions with the texte to wit Dell ' impia Babilonia 〈◊〉 Avara Babilonia Fontana de dolori fiamma del Cielo which matters how neere they touch Rome every one acquainted with Petrarkes works do wel know Mentioning the Bibles of the r Fol. 166. Vulgar edition thus he speaketh Bibles which
was not to vpholde trueth but to destroy it You should then haue said that sometimes such Councels were assembled where â—…f the Spirite of God did illustrate them with truth all matters were well and especially those of mainest moment but if they were directed by faction or humane courses it fell out otherwise That Synode in the Actes was such an holy Act 15 6 meeting where about some differences in religion and doctrine the Apostles came togither and thâ—…â—…rit of God was President among them But in the fourth place that it should be of the essence of a lawful Councel that it must be ratified by the Romish Bishop is a iest i Bellar. de concâ—…l 〈◊〉 12 sometimes peradventure mencioned and arrogantly challenged by some of that See but never by other in any antiquity assented vnto b Lib 2 5 Socrates indeed speaketh of a Canon of the Church that without the sentence or advise of the Bishop of Rome decrees for the Church should not be established But this is spoken by him as taking it vp only from some claime of Iulius the stirring Pope then living and not from anie authenticall recorde For where was that ever concluded The Nicene Councell indeede taking order that there might be Patriarkes in severall places of the world who might compose and direct Ecclesiasticall matters in their Provinces had for the respect which was then borne to Rome as being the Imperial city suffered the Bishop thereof to take the first c Socr. 5. 8. place in all generall Convocations as it gaue the seconde to the Patriarke of Constantinople and afterward to the other Patriarks in their order Further prerogatiue we finde none given howsoever the Bishops of Rome aspiring to an Ecclesiasticall Monarchy did in processe of time stand on it that they had more In a d Concil carthaginens 3. Councell at Carthage it was decreed that the Bishop of the first See should not be called the Prince of Priests or the highest Priest or any such thing but only the Bishop of the first See And e Part 1 Distinct. 99 3 Gratian citeth the very same words out of a Councell of Afrike which intendeth that of Carthage but he addeth in the end of the Decree But let not even the Bishop of Rome hee called Universall And f â—…lbid 4 farther he citeth a Decree of Pelagius the Pope Let none of the Patriarkes ever vse the word of Vniversallity because if our Patriarke be called Vâ—…iversall the name of Patriarkes to derogated from otherâ—… but fâ—…r be this from faithfull men that any one should take that to himselfe whence in any the smallest respect he may seeme to dâ—…sh the honour of his brethreÌ„ And least any man should say that the Pope meant this of other Patriarkes and not of himselfe it followeth in the same g lbid 5. GratiaÌ„ that Pope Gregory was angry with Eulogius that he had called him Vniversall Pope I confesse that in progresse of time the Bishops of Rome vnder a colour of a Canon in the Nicene Councell did claime that appeâ—… should be made to them but when the Fathers of Afrike assemâ—…ed at h Con. Carthaginen 6 Carthage disclaimed it and would by no meanes take knowledge of any such Canon they sent to Nicea to see the Originall of the Nicene Councell and finding no such matter there they put the Pope to much shame in as much as it was but a forged Canon vpon which hee had insisted But to returne to Iulius in whose behalfe the former chalenge was made when the Easterne Bishops had received imperious letters from him they did no lesse then scorne it in him would not indure any such vsurpation of his as both i Lib at 〈◊〉 Socrates and k Lib 3 7. Sozomen do relate Yea we finde in Athanasius himselfe who had fled to lulius whoÌ„ it coÌ„cerned that lulius shuld haue nothing of his true authority diminished because he stuck close to Athanasius in his toubles that the l Athana in Apolog. 2. Easterne Bishops asseÌ„bled in the CouÌ„cel at Sardis do cal Iulius their beloved fellow servant nothing more Which was the phrase not only of theÌ„ being a coÌ„pany of Catholiks Orthodox Bishops but m Epistol 3 CypriaÌ„ before that did vse to cal Cornelius the Rom. Bishop his brother no more 4 Yet if it should be grauÌ„ted that the Patriarkes in the name behalfe of their Provinces should haue a voice of necessary coÌ„sent what is that more to the Romish Bishops then to the other Patriarchical Sees And besids this the place of Socrates teÌ„deth to nothing but political ordinances ceremonies customes for governmeÌ„t of the church which were not to be obtruded on all without coÌ„sent of some chief in every Province especially that of Rome the most emineÌ„t in the empire And of that nature was the cause of Athanasius there who was questioned as depriueable of his Bishoptik because he had exercised his fuÌ„ctioÌ„ iurisdictioÌ„ being not restored again after his suspensioÌ„ by a Synod of some Bish. But if that a general CouÌ„cel should with good grouÌ„ds out of the word of God coÌ„deÌ„ne heresie and the Pope would not ioine with theÌ„ whether this coÌ„demnatioÌ„ were lawful or no is rather our questioÌ„ Where although your Popes wil take on theÌ„ to haue a Negatiue voice against the CouÌ„cel your Canonists Pope-flaterers so dispute it yet the CouÌ„cel of CoÌ„staÌ„ce is flat to y e coÌ„trary for there as n In Ioh. 24. Platina saith the Pope is subiected to y e CouÌ„ cel yea deprived by it also And the o concâ—… coÌ„stant Sess. 5 CouÌ„cel it selfe saith that a general CouÌ„cell hath power immediatly froÌ„ Christ to which everie one of what state or dignity so ever he be yea if it be Papal is bouÌ„d to obey in those things which pertain to faith to the rooting out of schisme the reformatioÌ„ of the Church in the head in the meÌ„bers Thus the CouÌ„cell speaketh flatly and the Popes speake directly to the contrary and learned Papistes themselues are shrewdly in suspence what to say or beleeue herein p Replique a 〈◊〉 â—…e de 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 verit cap. 5. One of them a French man saying more in the beginning then we accept confesseth of late farther in this manner Never did Christian man say or doubt whither the Pope were aboue other Bishops but the question is whither hee bee aboue a Councell and the whole Catholike Church 〈◊〉 body gathered This is 〈◊〉 vndecided and 〈◊〉 rather a matter of policie or governement then of the substauncâ—… of faith Nevertheles it were good that this knot were opened before that you talke to much of your CouÌ„cels and your Popes ratifying of theÌ„ It were well that your Papists knew what to beleeue Now to proceed Such as the first ancient Councelâ—… condeÌ„ned for Heretiks were rightly so accouÌ„ted for they were iustly
censured out of the Scriptures to holde vntruths But such as your later Conventicles of Lateran Trent such like condeÌ„ned were the good servants of God were not nether are iustly to be reputed heretiks but by the Archâ—…heretiks of the world Antichrists men whose censure being drawn froÌ„ their own braine the Spirit of Sathan not froÌ„ the holy Ghost is to be esteemed for nothing The condeÌ„natioÌ„ of the Arrians Macedonians Nestorians Eutychians we allow of because they taught doctrin against Christ the word of God we are glad of their ruine And wee finde that after our Saviours speech q Mat 15. 13. Every plant which â—…y heavenly father hath not planted shal be rooted vp hereâ—…ks commonly are soone blowne away although Kings States Countries for the time do admit theÌ„ as the Arrian infection was widely entertained Yet we cannot certainely conclude that al heresies do in time come to nothing vnlesse we will vnderstand that time to be the end of time even the finall dissolution of all things The schisme of the r 〈◊〉 King 17 34. â—…oh 4 20. Samaritanes dissenting froÌ„ the Iews lasted long Your Papacy hath had a great coÌ„tinuance being the confluence of a whole sinke of heretical doctrine You haue long since condemned the Greeke Russian Church and yet they hold out The Iconomachi Image breakers were condeÌ„ned in the second Nicene Councel and yet the defenders of their faith in that point do stil remain Had not the Arrians sentence against them long agone in the first Synode at Nice yet there be said to be store of theÌ„ in s Bellar. lib. 1. 2 de Christo. Transylvania And for the Pelagians I do not remember that any Councell directly proceeded against theÌ„ yet they deserved to be so met with notwithstanding Papists do much ioine with them in the matter of free will â—…It is possible then that as the Divell indureth so may some of his Disciples successiuely the s Mat. 13 〈◊〉 tares which the envious man hath sowne may be let alone to the harvest that is to say heretiks to the last day But let them stand or fall slowly or quickly such as obstinatly maintaine false doctrine are heretikâ—… Councels which by warrant of the Scripture do condeÌ„ne theÌ„ are to be accepted well esteemed by all so that they mingle not drosse with their gold no water with their wine T. HILL ANd no doubt the late faâ—… Councell of Trent which by the same authority and order hath câ—…ned the Protestantes other sectaries for heretiks will in time bâ—… every where received these new felwes by it â—…ized will vâ—…terly vâ—…sh away For indeede â—…f a man consider the matter throughly he shall plainely perceiue that thâ—…se sectes haue no likelyhood of coÌ„tiâ—… by reason they haue no mâ—…s to gather a Councell and much lesse to 〈◊〉 matters therein if 〈◊〉 were gathered being without an head as they 〈◊〉 and every one â—…leaving â—…ly to his own privâ—… opiâ—… therefore â—…an â—…er all 〈◊〉 togither or if by any power they were compelled therâ—… they haue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 agree in one for that they will not yeeld 〈◊〉 any iudgement but what is framed of their 〈◊〉 brâ—… and therefore it â—…st needs 〈◊〉 amongst them as we see it to be Quot homines tot senteâ—…tiae So many men so many opinions G. ABBOT 5 THe famousnes of your Conventicle at Trent iâ—… famously to be laughed at It was eighteene yeare in acting from 1545. to the yeare 1563. nowe a peecâ—… and then a patch interrupted to it againe Three Popes one after another that is Paulus the 3. Iulius the 3. and Pius the 4. did beat all their wits and vsed their best imploiments to make somewhat of it yet most base and beggerly it prooved The most of the nations of Christendome had nothing to do with it neither did they send thither The Protestants vniversally refused and some gaue out the reason of it in t Sleid l. 16. printed tracts First because it was assembled by the Pope whose authority they should haue ratified if they had come at his call Secondly the Legats of the Pope were Presidents there therfore nothing was to be concluded or disputed against their maister Thirdly no man could come there but he must condescend to many things against his conscience there being first and principally required obedience to the Papacy presence at many Idolatrous Acts. Fourthly there was no freedome â—…o speake truth but that any man might haue bin served as u Cochl in Hist Hussit l 2 Iohn Hus was at the Councell of Constance who had a safe conduct froÌ„ Sigismund then king of the Romanes afterward Emperor and yet by a tricke that faith given to heretiks is not to bee kept or as our M. u Ration 4 Capian said Caesar sealed it but the ChristiaÌ„ world vnsealed it being greater theÌ„ Caesar the good man there lost his life Fiftly their Princes for reasons of state did not think fit to imploy theÌ„ thither Nay Popish Realms did not ioin with that CouÌ„cel as Q. Mary in all her time sent not thither which may appeare by this that in the Cataloge of Bishops ther is named but only one of England that was Th. Goldwel Bishop of S. Asaph who departed the Realm in Q. Elizabeths time was at TreÌ„t at a snatch of that assembly coÌ„ming before the final breaking vp of all but he was theÌ„ only a titulary Bish. without any Bishoprik Of which sort there were also divers other to help make vp a simple shew As Pope x Gentill in exam CoÌ„cil â—…riden Sel. 1. Sleâ—…dan lib. 17 Paulus the 3. made that Olaus which is called Magnus Archb of Vpsala a place said to be in Gothia one Robertus VenaÌ„tius Archbishop of Armath in Ireland He bestowed those titles on those two poore men while they lived at Rome had nothing in the world to doe with the places of their pretended Bishopriks but were without Church or Clergy or Diocesse or any revenue at all He might as well haue created theÌ„ Bishops of Antioch and Alexandria if he had pleased These two poore hungrye soules the Pope for a vvhile mainetained barely at Rome at last as men comming out of far parts of the world he sent theÌ„ to Trent allowing Olaus 15. crownes a month which as the Authour saieth vvas but a simple pittaunce for an Archbishop and especially for him who was called Magnus but to Venantius that pretended Armachanus he allowed lesse Was not this thinke you to goe a begging for Bishops to furnish vp this high and famous Councell when such simple shiftes vvere made He who put out the Councel of likelyhood was sore ashamed of it and therefore in his commemoration of the Bishoppes there assembled he mencioneth no such men but leaveth them both out as counterfeits 6 I returne to speake of Popish Princes