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A09876 A discourse, of the true and visible markes of the Catholique Churche vvritten by M. Theod. Beza. Vezelius; De veris et visibilibus Ecclesiae Catholicae notis. English Bèze, Théodore de, 1519-1605.; T. W. (Thomas Wilcox), 1549?-1608. 1582 (1582) STC 2014; ESTC S101560 55,907 134

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yet a lawfull succession remayned as it was done against the Donatistes or againste them whiche brought forth new bookes of our religion as were in the beginning almost an infinite nūber as [a] I suppose that he speketh here of Simō Magus mentioned in Act. 8. of whom many thinges are writtē in the old writers specially he affirmed that Christe was not come neither suffered any thing of the Iewes but that he himself was Christ Simon [b] He amongst other things taught that Christ the sonne of God tooke not mans flesh of the virgin but that he had a spirituall or heauēly body which passed thorow the virgin Marie as water thorovv a pipe or Conduit He vvas about the yeere 150. Valentine [c] He affirmed that Christ appeared not in the substance of flesh but in a phantasticall body that one Simon vvas crucified in his steede about the yeare 124. Basilides [d] He taught that Christe vvas not very man and that he ascended into heauen vvithout his flesh and first made lavves for abstinence from meates and marriages hee vvas in the yeare 180. Montane to conclude the whole troup of most shamelesse men After this sort the Fathers of right iudgement gathered and reserued against these Such as pretended to be inspired vvith reuelations The Messalian heretiques vvere so called who affirmed that baptisme and the Lords supper did neither profit nor hurt but that those whiche gaue themselues to prayer onely or sleeping should be inspired vvith the spirite vvhich being once receyued aftervvards they had no need of the word or any other exercise of godlines but that he that vvas so inspired vvas altogether vvithout sinne and did foresee thinges to come and did sometimes behold God with their eies Enthusiasts saying If your doctrine be true eyther there hath not beene euer yet anye churche or the doctrine which you alleage is old and ancient But that both these thinges are false appeareth by that both because the apostles haue gathered together the churche of Christe and you teach your doctrines as taken not out of the writings of the Apostles but as newely reuealed vnto you by the holy ghost And agayne sayd the fathers both these things appeare by that that we count the beginnings of our churches by ascending vpward euen to the Apostles themselues but you could not haue receiued from the Apostles your thinges which ye first deuised Here remained one thing which the moste subtile of those moste fantasticall persons obiected to wit that all things were not reuealed to the apostles and therfore that men ought to beleeue their reuelations also But Tertulian whom I maruail could afterward be deceiued which Montanus holy ghoste most plentifully and strongly confuteth this prescription shewing that the Lord hath neither kept backe any thing from the apostles the chiefe builders of his church nor agayn that the apostles haue concealed any of those things which they had receiued of Christe After this sort I say the fathers vsed the argument of the succession of persons agaynste those heretiques altogether by demonstration as it were But they vsed it not in like sorte against the [a] So called of Paulus Samosatenus vvho denied the sonne of God to haue descended from heauén but that Christ did proceed from Marie in the earth hee was about the yeare 372. Samosatans [b] So called of one Sabellius who taught that there was but onely one person in the godhead confessed that the trinity was distincted in respect of names only not in respecte of persons He was about the yeare 320. Sabellians [c] So called of one Arrius who affirmed that the Son was not truly naturally God neither coeternall with the father but to haue had a beginning to be made of nothing he was about the yere 320 Arrians [d] So called of one Pellagius who held free will and that euery man might obtayne saluation by his owne workes that infants were borne vvithout originall sin and that Adam hurt himselfe onely by his fall He vvas about the yeare 466. Pelagians to be short againste anye with whome the questyon was not of the very bookes but of the meaning because this had beene verie foolishe Briefly therfore I answere these two thinges that the auncient Fathers whose authoritie these men shameleslie abuse haue neither at any time seperated the succession of their bishops from the succession of the Apostolical doctrine nor haue set this succession against any other heretiques but against those of whom some new reuelation was pretended As at this day of the [a] They mayntaine amongest other errors reuelations and take avvay the baptisme of infants Anabaptistes [b] They casting a side all feare of God vvhat so euer hold that men may lyue as they list Libertines [c] So called of one Casper Svvingfeldius vvho held the same matters that the Anabaptistes do Swingfeldians And therefore for as muche as now the controuersie is betwixt the Romanistes and vs for two thinges onely to wit for the interpretation of the Scripture and whether the wrytinges of the Prophetes and Apostles doe most fully contayne what so euer we ought to beleeue it is prooued that they in the first point impudently abuse the example of the fathers in alleadging against vs the argument of succession and in the other is ministred vnto vs a sure weapon to confute them And that this succession also was alleadged against the Donatistes as Schismatickes this nothing toucheth vs whom these men account not properly for Scismatickes but for heretiques of which thing notwithstanding we will say some thing in his proper place a That the false church of Rome is not onely not propped vp by the argument deriued frō the personal succession of the apostles but also ouerthrown although the questiō be not of the doctrine But go to let vs gratify them a litle and which thing may be done without any preiudice of the trueth Let vs graunt vnto these men how much force soeuer they can imagine of that their personall succession What shall this I besech you help their cause b That there vvas neuer any Apostolicall vniuersall ministeriall head and therefore that his succession is not Apostolicall For that we may begin at the highest step of their Hierarchie or priestlike gouernement as they call it that is at that vniuersall mynisteriall head vnto whome they afterwarde appropriated the name of Pope which before was common to all Bishoppes they shal as easely finde the Diuell him selfe in the kingdome of God as any such head either in the bookes of the● newe Testament or in the auncient church For verie children know this how false folish and absurd arguments they be whatsoeuer they bring out of the scriptures to proue the same And as concerning the history of that auncient purer church that is to say in this behalfe verelie euen to the tymes of that manslaier Phocas they shall finde
matter say that the Church of Christe is a schoole in which the worde of the Lorde is not onely barely to be read as out of the letter written but also to bee taught that it maye bee rightly vnderstoode and so to be taught that exhortations corrections and consolations both openly and priuately maye bee vsed which in Paul is vnderstoode by the name of Prophecying Rom. 12.6 Moreouer this also wee adde which thing ought here chiefly to bee marked that the interpretation of those scriptures are to be set no where else then out of the scriptures themselues not onely because the word of God is able to giue credite to it selfe but also because that trueth is reuealed vnto vs no where els then in the writings of the Prophetes and Apostles For that saying of Austen is well knowen and is most true That the scripture is to be expounded by the scripture Neither shall it irke me heere to put downe that nonotable place out of the 49. Homelie of the imperfect worke vpon Mathew because it agreeth altogeather with our times He that will know saith he which is the true Church of Christ let him not know it but onely by the scriptures And by and by after Christians therefore beeing willing to receiue the certainetie of true fayth let them flie to nothing but to the scriptures otherwise if they shall haue respect to other thinges they shall stumble perish not vnderstanding which is the true Church and by this meanes they shall fall into the abhomintaion of desolation which standeth in the holy places of the Church But to whom shall belong will these men say the interpretation of scriptures Verily all be not Prophetes all be not teachers But againe Esay Esay as crieth that both Priestes and Prophetes haue erred in their vision neither would Christ haue admonished Math. 16.6 Math. 23.2 That the leauen of the Pharises should be auoyded if we shoulde without exception haue consented vnto them That sit in Moses chayre Neither should the false Prophetes be eschued if all the Prophetes did speake the truth neither would Caiphas and the whole Synode of the Priestes haue condemned Christ if the holy Ghost had beene tried without exception to those that sit in Aarons seat What then Antiquitye or noueltye maketh nothing at all to instruct men to discerne the true interpretation of scripture from the false Let these men therefore heare at length that which we haue so often times cryed out vnto deafe men to wit that we do not simply reiect neither the old nor the new counsels whether they be particular or generall vnlesse they be plainly theeuish that we do not simply refuse neither old nor new writers vnles they be manifestly either superstitious or ridiculous or by cōmon consent abrogated That we doe not simply cast from vs the writings neither of auncient nor new writers whether they be Ecclesiasticall or Laicall as these men call them for God is no accepter of persons and often times euen by the basest sorte he confoundeth the pride of the most wise vnlesse they be plainly wicked superstitious or foolishe But this onely we require which the most learned and euery the most religious of the old writers monish carefully to be don to wit that all these thinges should be diligently examined according to the rule of the written word of God For antiquitie and authoritie of those that wryte may in deed set some collour of truth vpon falshood but that it shoulde be true which disagreeth neuer so little from the writings of the Prophets and Apostles that truely it can neuer bring to passe Furthermore The Creeds of the ancient Synodes the iudgement of the fathers against heretiques are at no hand reiected by vs yea rather they are strongly defended against aduersaries although not as yeelding credite themselues experience it self more than sufficiently declareth that there haue beene long time since builded vpon the foundation layd by the Apostles not onely bay and stubble but also yron and rust to be short lies vppon trueth All which thinges muste at the length be consumed by the light and fire of Gods word Now least these men shoulde agayne complaine that what soeuer hath bene established by counsell after consell in the auncient Churche shoulde by this meanes be called into doubt we confes that we doe acknowledge the Créedes which were alwayes approoued by the common consent of the whole Church to wit the Creed of the Apostles Nice Athanasius his creed the creed of Constantinople Chalcedon togeather with the curses pronounced in the second counsel of Ephesus againste Nestorius And that we both with mouth and hart detest al heresies which either by open or secret consent of the whole Church were out of the word of God condemned in those 4. councels and also ouer throwen in the fifth and sixth councels of Constantinople And all other heresies whatsoeuer which afterwarde eyther newlye sprong vp or are newly polished not that the truth hangeth vpon any Synods or Creedes but because we acknowledge that the thinges which are prescribed and established in them The conclusion of the disputation of the true Christ who is the only true perpetual and absolute necessary note of the true Church may be rightly iudged by the writings of the prophets and Apostles so far of is it that we take away the authority of the church or dispise the consent of the godly either ancient or new writers which thing our aduersaries falsly shamlesly obiect vnto vs. Now the summe of al these things is this that Christ is the true perpetual necessary to be short the onely marke of the Church yea I say the true Christ that is suche a one as he from the beginning hath most perfectly touching the matter and maner of saluation reuealed him selfe both in the writings of the prophets and of the Apostles Mat. 12.13 For that saying standeth sure He that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad and that saying 1. Pet. 2.7 that christ is that corner stone of the foundation vppon whome the whole building riseth vp And that onely head which ministreth vnto his body that is vnto the true catholique Church al féeling and mouing To be short Iohn 10.7 Iohn 14.6 Iohn 11.25 he is the dore the way the resurrection and the lyfe Therfore whersoeuer that word is heard as it ought to be there in deed Christe raigneth and where Christe raigneth there in deed we iudge the Catholique visible Churche to be neither tied to any certaine place nor vnto the multitude for where that dead carkas is Mat. 24.28 to wit Christe crucified there be those Egles there is saluation Act. 4.12 where that onely name is in which we must be saued there be the children of light where that sonne shineth there be the true sheepe Where the voyce of that sheepeheard is heard Mat. 18.20 although two or three onely throughout all the world
shall be truely gathered together in his name And to speake in fewe wordes where that true seede is sowen there is the Lords field and there that haruest groweth which shall neuer be burned But againe because it falleth out partly thorough the weaknesse of mans wit euen in the moste excellent men partly through the wickenesse or negligence of the pastors that scarce at any time since the time of the Apostles the doctrine of Christ hath beene so preached in the Church but that some blemish hath priuely crept in which thing appeareth to bee done euen by the Epistles of the Apostles and that whilest they also were liuing Finally because the Lord hath apointed not onely that the worde shoulde be taught but also that it shoulde not be taught of euery man And for this cause hath appointed certaine lawes touching this order I must here again declare two things to wit how farre it shoulde be necessarie that that onely marke of the true Church that is to say the preaching of Gods worde shoulde be pure and how much we should giue to the ordination and succession of the Pastors themselues Therefore How farre it is necessary that the doctrine of fayth should be pure in the Church that the Church eyther particular or general may be a true church as touching that former point I put downe three thinges One is that although there be nothing set out vnto vs in the holy Scriptures which is not most profitable and verie necessary as it were vnto saluation yet there are certaine chiefe points and as it were grounds of our religion which are to be discerned from the rest The second point is that there haue beene some matters which in times past haue beene rudimentes of the Catholique Churche and may in other times also be rudiments of some particular churches yet for all that those points cease not to belong to the true Churche The third is that the religion and marke of the Churche either vniuersall or particular is not to be measured by some thing that this or that Pastor teacheth by worde or writing neither by that that some sheepe by them selues haue thought this Or by the disputations of some whether they be many or few but by that doctrine which is commonly receiued in the Churches so that it be agreable to the word of God That all the points of christian religion are not of the foundation thereof Now because these questions are called into controuersie go to let vs confirme them by sure reasons examples As touching the firste the thing it selfe sheweth that there may be variaunce touching some things yet the soundation of christian religion remaine safe And againe some things cannot be taken away but that the whole building be vtterly ouerthrown He that denieth Christ to haue come in the fleshe Iohn 4.3 is not of God but is the spirit of Antichrist Therefore the companies of the * They denied Christ to haue come in the flesh Dochitae of the * The Marcionistes of whome he speaketh here did hold that Christ was not true man Marcionits and of such like be not the Church of Christe whereby it is prooued that the point touching both the natures of Christe is an article of Christian religion belonging to the foundation Againe the Churche of Ierusalem wherin who was better learned than Peter knew not the calling of the vncircumcised and yet what true Churche was there then in the worlde if the Church of Ierusalem were not it Therefore the point concerning the calling of the vncircumcised is not of it selfe of the points of Christian religion which concerne the foundation Therfore there is some difference betweene those thinges which are set forth vnto vs in the scriptures to be beléeued The second also may be prooued by a more euident example For who doubteth That there are some rudiments of particular Churches VVhich thing also in times past fall out in the Catholique church but that if euer there were any where a true and almost onely and wholy Catholique Churche that was Christes owne houshold being conuersaunt and that according to the fleshe with those his twelue disciples Who likewise is ignoraunt that the point of the resurrection the foundation wherof is the resurrection of Christ himselfe is of so great waight that the Apostle doth rightly pronounce that that beeing abolished the whole fruit of the Gospell shoulde be abolished but that very congregation could scarce beleue that Christ was yet risen And Thomas gaue not credite to his own very fellow disciples yea the disciples would not haue beléeued euen their owne verye eyes if the Lorde had not sayd Luke 24.39 VVe may not determine of the falshood or truth of any church by the doubting of either many or few A spirit hath not flesh and bones And that third thing is confirmed by the examples of the Churches of Achaia and Galatia which doubtlesse the Apostle would not haue called the churches of Christ and therefore true churches if hee had therfore thought that the church of Corinth had denied that article of the resurrection of the flesh the churches of Galatia had reiected the benefite of their liberty purchased by Christe because some in Corinth yea perhaps some of the pastors themselues did doubt of the poynte of the resurrection and the most part of the Galathians called backe agayn the vse of circumcision and other ceremonies seeing that yet notwithstanding Gal. 5.2 the same Paul sayth If ye be circumcised Christ doth profite you nothing and seeing that he affirmeth that those which vrged circumcision not of ignorāce but of stubbornnes they were remoued alway vnto another gospel Gal. 1.6 Phil. 3.2 therefore he openly calleth thē Apostatates or fallers away and compareth them to Dogs that is to say to vncleane beastes But it is an other thing to erre through ig●●●aunce than obstinately to resist the truth as wiful fellowes are wont Heresie which is without the Church if it be of some point of the religion that toucheth the foundation is an other thing than being deceiued or an error which requireth and suffereth it selfe to be taught To be shorte the Eclipse of the Sunne is an other thing than the absence of the same and the euening is an other thing than the darkenesse of the night yea the night it selfe which the day succeedeth is an other thing than the darknesse were Gen. 1.2 when they couered the depth These things then being put downe That some errours may creepe into the Catholique church yea and that in some point of faith which concerneth the foundation it shal be easie to iudge that euery error doth not take away the name of the true church and with al that to be most false which the aduersaries say to wit that the Catholique Church cānot erre and yet that euery error doth not abolish the name of the Catholike Church For as touching this latter point if