with all truth as the Scriptures quoted compared together will prove To which I say they do easily and fully prove the same and there were never any that held the perfection of the Scriptures that did deny the same yet is J. S. never the nearer for all his pains in multiplying expressions to make the matter seem something when indeed it is nothing at all to purpose For To the Law and the Testimony we are to go And in Esay 8. 20. 2 Pet. 1 19. difficult cases To take heed to the Word as to a Light that enlighteneth in darknesse Now first I say the Scripture giveth no light at all concerning such a cessation of the Church and Ordinances Nay it is against the light of the Scriptures to beleeve any such thing Jesus Christ having said That hell gates shall not prevail against his Church and Matth. 16. Matth. 28. 20. having also promised his presence for preservation and continuation for ever Secondly I say it is but directively that the Scriptures do furnish men in all cases now their direction in this case it is to the Church 2 Tim. 3. 17 18. and to the ministery of man for the enjoying and being made partakers of the holy Ordinances of God The holy Scriptures of old in a like manner stood in the stead of Moses and the Prophets in a sense And yet the heathen were to repair to Jerusalem for the Ordinances as they did and did not act Esay 8. 20. 2 Pet. 1. 19. 2 Chro. 6. 32. them themselves with the help of the Law The Scriptures in a sense stood in the stead of Christ and the Apostles yet the people must go to John yea our Lord himself that he might fulfill righteousnesse Matth. 3. 15. must go to him Cornelius must send for Peter Paul must Act. 10. 32. Act. 9. 10. have Ananias and so such as attain the knowledge of the truth they are to go to the Church and Ministery of man appointed of God and so that way to be added to the Church and made partakers of the holy Ordinances of God for it is most certain the Act. 2. 47. Scriptures act nothing neither can they they onely direct in righteousnesse 2 Tim. 3. 16. their directions is always as aforesaid and no otherwise Thirdly I say it is not true that the Scriptures are in the stead of the holy Ministery ordained by God The Scriptures were not in the stead of the Priests in case of Sauls sacrificing nor in Vzzia the King his burning incense to inable them to do as they did 1 Sam. 13. 12. The Scriptures were not in stead of circumcised Jews unto the Heathen to inable them or make them capable of building the Temple 2 Chron. 26. 17 18. They were not in stead of John Baptist to our Lord They were not in stead of Peter to Cornelius and his friends As it is not in stead of Ezra 4. 3. Matth. 3. 15. Acts 10. 32. Christ the Apostles or holy Ministery to an unbaptized person or persons to inable them warrantably to Baptize and so without Commission to raise this Ordinance a new so lost and deceased out of the world according to his opinion The Scriptures which he quoteth I shall set down and they are these 2 Tim. 3. 15. 2 Pet. 1. 19. Rom. 16. 25 c. Now I appeal to the indifferent Reader whether these Scriptures all or any of them are any other then directive Again whether their direction it be not to a precedent Stative Church and ministery of man appointed by God as formerly under Moses and the Prophets so in this latter dispensation under Christ and the Apostles as is before declared Lastly whether these Scriptures or any of these or all of these compared together do give direction to a person unbaptized himself to baptize either himself or others and whether they do not rather testifie against such usurpation of Gods holy things and running before they be sent in thus doing a thing that never came into Jerem. 23. 21. the minde of God much lesse did he require it at their hands Jerem. 32. 35. J. S. proceedeth and saith By all which we see that all things are contained in the Scriptures Answ Yea in the way of direction and therefore such practices as are without the direction of the Scripture are unwarrantable such as is their casting away as Null their present Baptisme because of some corruptions that did attend it and beginning it again with greater corruptions namely by an unbaptized person without Commission acting of it Here he addeth many good words in commendation of the Scriptures As containing all things concerning faith and obedience as being the Propheticall mouth of Christ to which all must repair unto and all Doctrines and practices must be tryed by and an Angell from heaven is not to be beleeved but as they speak according to it All which is directive as I said before And what then Truly nothing Though he go over the same matter again with some different expressions and some of them improper carrying a shew of favouring his conceit and what he would have As where he saith The Scriptures is the onely place How is this proper or true unlesse he mean in a directive way Where any Ordinance of God in case aforesaid that is of cessation and losse of being again when or wheresoever any of these meaning Ordinances of God cannot be found What then We are saith he to go to the Scriptures directly and recover the same again as Cant. 1. 7. Esay 8. 19 20. Answ All this is but the same over again we are to go to the Scripture for direction if the case were so the Scripture directing and not acting as Esay 8. 19 20. the Church acting according to that direction and therefore persons are sent thither according to that Cant. 1. 7. alleadged which is according to the direction of Scripture which alwayes sendeth men to the Church in such cases so as in this copiousnesse he doth but puzzle his Reader to make him beleeve what he is never able to prove He proceedeth saying Thus having found out the place or subject very improper expressions Is not the Scripture the ground and foundation of all Ordinances in a directive way Did ever any Christian question it much lesse deny it That he should with often going over the same and with such improper expressions and far fetches seek to make it appear as a discovery of truth not known or at least not assented unto sure he had some further drift in it then ordinary In the next place he saith It is to be known how they that want it may come orderly by it For saith he though God hath joyned his Word and Ordinances together yet he hath injoyned an orderly way for his people to come to injoy them Answ I would fain know to what end all the former matter serveth if so be God require an
very dark and smoakie this hee will doe by shewing the manner of the aforesaid Constitution in the causes of it How will he doe it in pag. 40. by saying over again what he had said again and again before namely that the Scriptures remaining in the place of the Apostles for us to have recourse unto and serve as the mouth of Christ Alas this is but a poore clearing for this is onely in a directive way as before I noted And what then The Scriptures being so truly nothing at all Yes saith he as the Apostles did before the Scriptures were written To which I say there were Scriptures before the Apostles to which the Apostles had an eye and regard and directed others to doe the like The holy Apostles they acted Ordinances of Religion preaching breaking bread and baptizing The Scripture acts nothing neither can they surely Act. 2. 42. this is a poore clearing we will minde the Scriptures hee here quoteth Matth. 28. 20. 2 Pet. 19. 20 21. Rom. 10. 6 7 8. In answer I will not tire my selfe and the Reader certainly no man can imagine any thing more then direction from that full and perfect rule of the Scriptures as gatherable from those places of Scripture which as before I said none deny let him but call to mind what he said of an orderly way which God requireth and how that is as he conceiveth by the Church and then let him tell mee if hee can to what purpose these Scriptures are or that which followeth that as the Lords people conferred with the Prophets and Apostles about their great affaires so have the Lords people now Moses and the Prophets Christ and his Apostles in their writings as Luk. 16. 29. And what then truly nothing it is but for direction as before nor yet that which further followeth in this clearing matter of the constituting causes which are saith he with the spirit of life in them as effectuall as their personall presence if not more Answ Stay a while the matter is sure otherwise for this effectuallnesse if it were granted is but directive But it is not wholly granted for that the Apostles were men inspired and sent of God to declare his will they were a saving meanes of good to men and God in his good pleasure as a double mercy gave his Word and sent his Apostles and Prophets sure I take it it must needs follow that if the Scriptures were as effectuall without the Apostles and rather more then with them then God gave the Apostles in vaine and the Churches were great losers by their personall presence but the truth is otherwise as is most manifest The Scripture with the Spirit of life in them act nothing but onely direct and furnish men how to act according to the will of God in an orderly way according to what hee holdeth For proofe of what before he affirmed of the effectualnesse of the Scripture he quoteth Joh. 6. 62. 2 Pet. 1. 18 19. Revel 11. 3 5 11. Answ That in John speaketh of Christ ascending where he was before how this should prove any thing is beyond my thoughts I will say nothing but leave the Reader to judge of it That place of Peter is of the sure direction of the Word in dark and our doing well to take heed to it That in the Revelation is of the two witnesses a thing too mysterious to be a proofe in this case I suppose J. S. will not hold himselfe to be one of those witnesses nor he with others of his way to be both those witnesses there spoken of I will say no more but leave the Reader to judge whether these Scriptures doe prove that the holy Scriptures with the Spirit of life in them as he is pleased to say are in stead of the Apostles personally sent of God with power to act ordinances or whether they in the case of the Ordinances dispensing in an orderly way are as much or more effectuall then the Apostles personally that were sent of Christ for that end who did not send the Scriptures as in the case of the Eunuch but Philip and in the case of Cornelius Peter as in those and the like instances may be seen He proceedeth and in full concluding of this matter saith and thus all succession what phrase have we here from the beginning came to Christ Of what speakes hee now of Ordinances I had thought all Ordinances had ever proceeded from him he being ever the Lord of the Church and sure he meaneth the Ordinances namely those ordained of old under Abraham and Moses and the Prophets these lasted continued to the coming of Christ into the world the substance indeed of those shadows so his sense may be good From Christ he saith to the Apostles from the Apostles to the Scriptures This is pure non-sense if I mistake not and beside I aske him where is that orderly way he told us of and how is the case now according to 1 Cor. 3. by him alleadged for the Authority of an unbaptized Church Doth he not by this discent seclude them from all rather then inright them to any such authorite happily he will say Oh from the Scriptures to us very good But first how from Christ to the Apostles Did Christ our Lord preferre the Apostles before his beloved Spouse for whom he gave himselfe I alwayes took the Apostles as the servants of the Church for Christs sake Secondly did the Ordinances 2 Cor. 4. 5. proceed from Christ to the persons of the Apostles or to their office as Apostles So as when they in regard either of person or office left the world it descended to the Scripture certainly the right and interest of the Scriptures was the same before the death and cessation of the Apostles as after and the Scriptures gained no legacie by such friends unlesse a sealing to the truth and full authority of their direction so from the Scriptures to us a wonderfull matter a very fair Ring from the Scriptures to the Scriptures and so to us just nothing but a shew of words without matter Further he saith That all succession is now spirituall So it seemeth he holdeth it was carnall before when it was from Abraham to Moses from Moses to Christ and the Apostles and so to the Scriptures and now it is from the Scriptures to us it is spirituall a rare conceit He saith it is now according to faith whether he mean faith of miracles or what else is hard to say but it mattereth not much for he is beside the Scriptures and walking in some other field It followeth not saith he the personall succession of any but onely the Word of God Answ Sure J. S. speaketh in a strange tongue he is never able to make out his sense that succession follows the Word the Word being immoveable and that which abideth for ever and hath no place for succession though he thus speaketh he know not what And the word of God he saith
be as indeed it is lying and false for none of those things which he is pleased to set downe as held forth in Baptisme or else it is a lying signe could be expected much lesse be in Christ And yet he fulfilled righteousnesse in being D. Sclater baptized as is righteousnesse fulfilled in Infants Baptisme even as it was in their Circumcision of old For we may know that there are other ends in Baptisme as there was in Circumcision of old besides those specified by J. S. as namely the subjecting the creature and dedicating of him to God outwardly in a way of service The marking of him for God by such a Character The differencing of him from the rest of the World and instructing in inward sanctification by the outward washing And here it may be observed that at length J. S. quoteth a Scripture or two but to little purpose surely it is about dipping for that is new and pleaseth him and so in his seventh Reason at length he commeth out with it So he concludeth None of all which can be expected in an Infant And why not but only because he saith so but his words are no Oracles for those or some of those may be found in Infants notwithstanding what he saith God that works those in an elder can work them in a Infant he hath done it as in the case of Jeremy John Baptist he hath promised to do it Deut. 30. 6. And all Gods promises are yea Amen in Christ 1 Cor. 1. 10. Which when J. S. hath considered of he may repent of his error and lying accusation as indeed he hath great cause for to do I suppose the indifferent Reader will be able to see how false and unworthy an accusation this is which makes Christ himself an unlawfull subject and Baptisme a lying signe to him if J. S. his accusation were true in as much as those things could not be expected or be at all in Christ which he specifies as necessary or else it is so Reason 8 Because the subject of Baptisme is to be passive but a Infant is no way passive as that Ordinance requires I mean a passive subject in a threefold way First a thing uncapable and so is a stone Secondly a thing forced and thus is a Infant that opposeth it Baptisme what it can so far is it from being passive in the same Thirdly a thing is passive by a subjecting power producing the same in the subject by bringing of it into a free and voluntary subjection and thus is the true subject of Baptisme none can be capable to receive grace but by grace because it consists of self-denyall Answ First it is marvelous to see how contrary and different these men are in their Tenents A. R. in his Treatise of Childish Baptisme maketh Children to be uncapable Subjects because they are meer passive as he is pleased to say whereas the right subjects of Baptisme he saies ought to be more then passive J. S. he maketh them uncapable because they are not passive at all as contrary as these men are one to another even so contrary is their opinion to the truth Namely their denying Baptisme to Infants as untrue also is that which he further addeth that an Infant is no way passive as that Ordinance requires What that Ordinance requires in a passive way that is not or cannot be in an Infant in a passive way sure J. S. cannot shew Infants were passive in Circumcision of old so were persons of years and there was no reall difference in passivenesse or being patients in that Ordinance of Circumcision as there is none now in Baptisme betwixt Infants and men of years though J. S. would by a foolish distinction of the divers kindes of passivenesse seek to make it appear otherwise He first speaketh of a stones being passive but this he saith is uncapable of what is it uncapable not of totall dipping no not in a passive way J. S. may please to remember what is written of such like subjects namely The baptizing of cups and pots c. which sure he Mark 7. 4. forgot else he would not have distinguished so Secondly for an Infant which he saith opposeth its Baptisme what it can I say it opposeth its Baptisme no more then it did in Circumcision of old But how knoweth he they oppose their Baptisme because happily they shrine and cry a waighty reason sure did not Infants nay did not persons of years in Circumcision do the like yea more do not persons of years shrinke and shew an unwillingnesse to be totally dipped in J. S. his way Thirdly For passivenesse by a subjecting power bringing a thing to a free and voluntary subjection which is as he saith the true subject It may be observed how he rubbeth upon the old sore there is somthing in Infants wanting some Faith some Repentance some Freenesse some willingnesse of submission which he is pleased to make passive qualifications with little reason surely for any man may see what the disease is they bring nothing to Christ therefore they must have no acceptance of him nor grace from him Indeed it is works and not grace that here lets For certainly Infants are as capable of grace and grace as free to them as to persons of years As both old and young are meer passive in regard of inward grace and God giveth freely so both are also alike passive in regard of outward grace to wit that of the * Gen. 17. Covenant and this in question in particular namely Baptisme the Seale of it even as in Circumcision of old But he hath a kinde of reason although no Scripture to prove either his distinction or that children are not passive and that is That none can be capable to receive grace but hy grace because it consists of self-denyall Truly this had need of some explaining surely our being sinners and miserable maketh us meet subjects for mercy I reckon that there is nothing in us as of our own of grace that can make us capable I suppose he holdeth not with the Papists foreseen works or any preparatives that maketh persons capable of grace If he mean thus that none can be capable of the grace of Baptisme in an orderly way but by being within the grace of the Covenant first I should agree with him and do think that nothing can be more clear but that Infants being within the Covenant and interessed in the grace of God that way they are capable of further grace namely to be sealed with the Seale thereof Baptisme But what he meaneth I I know not because he saith It consists of self-denyall If he be able to apply it to the purpose now in hand I shall be willing to acknowledge my want of judgement for to me it is as if he had spake of a man in the Moon and how far this eight reason is from effecting any thing against the lawfulnesse of Infants Baptisme I leave it to the Reader to judge
orderly way for as I said before there is none that deny the Scriptures in a directive way to be the ground and foundation of all Ordinances J. S. might have spared his labour for it was to as much purpose as for a man to prove there is a Sun in the firmament which all grant In this it had been far better for him to have made full discovery how they that in such a case want it may come orderly by it in as much as God requireth this And surely if God require an orderly way J. S. and others of his way will yet remain in a great strait and will finde it a matter more easie to cast away an Ordinance as they have done their Baptisme for the disorder and corruption that did attend it then in an orderly way to obtain the same again for certainly the Scriptures according to what before is set forth direct to a precedent Church and Ministery of man ordained of God and sent as John was And if not a Christ a Moses or Elias or Prophet from heaven the blinde Jews could John 1. 25. see it to be unlawfull for any other How will he do now He is but where he was an orderly way according to God is necessary there being no gathered Church to be found remaining no not baptized persons to be found nor any Prophets sent from God according as his judgement is What will he do or what course will he prescribe He conceiveth this orderly way is onely in and hy the Church I had thought he would have rather said in the Scriptures for to me it seemeth he hath unsaid all he said before wherein is the power of Christ he saith to set on foot his Ordinances So as it seemeth now it is not in the Scriptures as before he indeavoured to make his Reader believe But in the Church of God so as we are not as he said before to go directly to the Scriptures but we are to go to the Church of God But now this is the case with J. S. and those of his way there is no Church remaining in the world to be found how then will he do to help now at a dead lift they will make a Church that they may make Ordinances anew and be the spouse of Christ whether he will or no I suppose greater arrogancy cannot be shewed in Babylon But let us see how they will do it thus saith he When God is pleased to take a people to himself and by the power of his truth to unite them to his Son and so in an orderly hody among themselves Answ Now this supposed orderly gathered Church pretended after the manner of the Church of Rome to be Gods consisteth of persons unbaptized Now I would hear minde J. S. of his first Argument against Infants Baptisme namely that which hath neither precept nor example in Scripture is unlawfull let him or any of his way shew an example of a unbaptized Church since Baptisme was on foot in the World or any command from God for persons unbaptized to congregate and assume for so he after speaketh to become a Church indeed it may be said presume for it is without all doubt great presumption and a doing that God never spake to any to do but the contrary namely to repaire to the Church before gathered and by him made partakers of his Ordinances in a right way there to be added and made partakers of the Ordinances with them J. S. saith further When it pleased God to take a people to himself c. Answ When God is pleased to take a people to himself in such a way there alwaies was new discoveries of his will new grants of favour there were new signes and miracles there were Prophets and men sent immediately to declare his good pleasure as appeareth first in the case of Abraham after in the example of Moses and that people and last of all in the case of Christ and the Gen 15. 17 18. Exod. 19. 16. Heb. 2. 4. Apostles when not the Jewes only but the Gentiles were drawn to God By signes and miracles and divers gifts he gave confirmation to his pleasure as of old he had done But alas here is no such thing attending this supposed gathering of such people to God for indeed the gathering is of another nature and answerable to Gods gathering of his people in some other cases more ordinary As namely his gathering of them out of captivity of old when they were in Babylon or his gathering them out of apostacy and defection under Jeroboam or the like figures of this spirituall captivity and apostacy of Babylon now But as then there were no new beginnings of Ordinances no new Circumcision nor any signes or miracles for confirmation of their returne and gathering to the Lord Even so the case being a like there is no new beginnings of Church and Baptisme which would require as heretofore such like confirmation And certainly if the return and gathering of Gods people to himself were any other then according to those gatherings from captivity and apostacy of old I say surely if there were such a new taking of people and raising of them as is pretended God would have manifested his pleasure as of old by signes and miracles or at least by persons sent from heaven for the businesse as John was J. S. further saith Such a people so gathered and constituted have right to all the priviledges ordained and appointed by God for their mutuall comfort and well-being Answ Just as Cornelius and his friends had or might have had in the like case without Peter whose Ministery they must make use of he being authorized of God to the worke and they directed of God to him and not bidden to do it themselves Now this he pretendeth to prove from certain Scriptures as Rom. 8. 17. 1 Cor. 21. 22 23. Answ For that in the Romans it is marvellous he should think that to be a proof I say first that was spoken of the Church of the Romans that were gathered by Christ and washed with his washing in an orderly way by such as were not only baptized but had authority to baptize others they were Gods Church indeed of whom glorious things are spoken But what is this to persons unbaptized pretending to be a Church and to be gathered by God when they cannot shew the least warrant for it Againe it speaketh of heirs now may heires because heires and so every heire of Christ act Ordinances of so high a nature because heires sure they as obedient children must serve God in an orderly way and not in such a confused course as that upon the pretence of heirship young as well as old yea women also might do it for They are all one in Christ Nay which is more though unbaptized and so the Eunuch or Cornelius and his friends needed Gal. 3. 28. not Philip or Peter but might have done it themselves I suppose this Scripture any one
Ordidinance where is J. S. then For truly his collective reason is as much as if a person opposing Circumcision as none of Gods Ordinance because of the Idolatry of the Jews should have reasoned thus If the Israelites be Idolaters and the Calves Idols and no gods and the Priests Priests to them that are no gods then is Circumcision 2 Chro. 13. 9. of the same nature also as are the Calves Priests and Jeroboams whole way of Dan and Bethel And for proof should say as J. S. doth that it was the power of Jeroboams way or of his Calves that carried on the whole form of worship and proceed and the power and Ordainer and the Ordinance ordained must needs be of one stamp if one so then so the other Had not such a way of arguing overthrown Circumcision then aswell as Baptisme now Let J. S. be Judge himself and let him tell me whether he would not have distinguished in the case Againe I will propose another instance in the way of his Argument Thus the Author and thing ordained or made must be of one and the same nature if one be Antichristian the other also for so he hath proved be saith But the Authors namely those that translated the Scripture were according to his opinion Antichristians and there be additions and detractions as in some translations there are Now the thing made or translated must be of the same nature with the Translators that were the Authors and if it were added for proof it was the power of their Antichristian spirits that carried on the whole worke and proceed thereof and so conclude as before both are one and the same If J. S. now would in this stand to his own ground where would he be he would be as far to seek for new Scriptures as they are for Church and Ordinances that hold there neither is nor yet can be any in the World or as he himself was not long since for Baptisme But truly it is much to be pittyed to see such ignorance in men professing knowledge that they cannot distinguish betwixt Gods Ezek. 4. 4. posts and mens when mens are set by Gods That they cannot distinguish between Gods Ordinances and mens inventions and aditions that they cannot put difference betwixt the Arke and Dagon or his Temple in which he being placed fell before the Arke I would 1. Sam. 5. 4. faine know of J. S. when Baptisme that was Christs seased and lost its being and Antichrists Baptisme came in the roome of it sure he cannot tell But I must here tell J. S. that the power of Jesus Christ supports and carries his Ordinances in the midst of the deepest defections that Satan ever hath or could bring upon the same wherein his glorious power doth appear although J. S. would spoile him of it by faining that he is overcome his Church Ordinances destroyed Gods people of old remained his people his Church his Church his Ordinances his Ordinances as particularly Circumcision in the midst of the greatest defilements that ever attended that dispensation In like manner it is so now under al the defilements of Antichrist in particular Baptisme of which is our question as also the Church our Lord Christ his power being no way lessened for the upholding of it nor his faithfulnesse failed for the preservation thereof according to his promise who hath said The gates Mat. 16. of hell shall not prevaile against it It were good for J. S. to study well that place 2 Thes 2. 4. Where Antichrist is foretold sitting in the Temple or Church of God and if he would please but to take notice that there is difference between Gods Temple in which he sitteth and him sitting there as there was betwixt the Arke in the Temple of Dagon in which the Arke was he happily would change his thoughts and be of another minde and so come to have more respective thoughts of the power and faithfulnesse of Jesus Christ then now he seemeth to have Truly I suppose these foolish inferences of J. S. will appear to be but meer fantasies without any ground tending only to deceive the simple for any indifferent Reader will be able to distinguish betwixt Religion and corruption betwixt Ordinances and the evills by way of addition or detraction that attends them Circumcision was of God and it was the hand and power of God that carried it forth in those evill times The Idols Calves and Jeroboams Priests and his whole way as they were of and from another so another hand and power carried them along Even as in like manner Baptisme and other like things being of God are preserved and carried by a hand and power of God whereas that universall Church generall Ministery and government with those other forms of Churches Provinciall Diocesan and proportionall Ministery and Government Ceremonies with additions and detractions innumerable as they are from another fountain so they are carried in another channell and by another power abetted and set on namely by the power of the man of sin the author and inventer of them So far shall suffice in this But saith J. S. praising of himself He hath proved that if one be Antichristian the other is Antichristian By what Scripture he hath proved it none can tell And saith he To dream of any approved Church by the Word of God under the defection and yet a part of the same is for a man to look for a man in the Moon and to suppose a Church to consist in such matter as is destructive to it self and therein to hold a successisn of truth is against the light of nature and a keeping of the Pope upon the Throne of Christ whether he will or no. Answ Is not this high Divinity which I. S. belcheth out of his self-sick stomack against the people and truth of God Is it not a sore and heavy charge but it is well it is but said and not proved Now least any as simple as he that said it should believe it because it is said and that by a person venerable in their way I shall take the pains to examine the respective charges as they are laid down First saith he To dream of an approved Church by the Word of God A. Sure he dreamed himself in what he fathered thus upon his opposites who do not hold an approved Church in such a sense as J. S. seemeth to intend that is a pure and spotlesse Church But they hold according to the Scripture a Church to be really true and Gods though corrupt and greatly defiled I suppose he will not question but that Judah not to speak of Israel was the Church of God in Manasses time and in other times when Idolatry greatly prevailed yet not approved as pure and spotlesse but reproved for corruption and defilement yea and visited with the rods of men Psal 89. 3 2. because of the same that she might be reformed so as to be again approved of her
was preserved and not destroyed the earth helping the woman against the rage of the Dragon Sure there can no sense hence be gathered of hell gates prevailing to destroy her Lastly Act. 8. 1. It speaketh of Sauls making havock of the Church and persecuting of it but this tended greatly to the increase of it and not to the destroying of it Certainly I. S. will not think much lesse say hell gates at this time prevailed against the Church indeed it never did for that was alwaies true which was said of the Church of old Many a time have they afflicted me from my youth may Ps 129. 1. 5. Israel say but they have not prevailed against me the righteous Lord hath cut the cords of the wicked in sunder I suppose I. S. hath but small judgement and lesse aim to bring such Scriptures as these to prove that hell gates have prevailed against the Church in any Scripture sense It were far better for him to hold the continuation of the Church according to the sure Word and faithfull promise of Christ and if he would not acknowledge her continuance under the apostacy and defection aforesaid then to indeavour to find her continuance some where else But in regard this would overthrow his new unbaptized Church and proceed that way he rather chuseth to asperse Christ of unfaithfulnesse in his promise then by acknowledgement to give him the glory of it In regard of the former matter J. S. seemeth to have had an eye to a collaterall reason which he setteth down thus Where was their Church before it came out of the defection First let it be observed how he shaketh hands with the Romanists that use to say in like manner Where were the reformed Churches before Luther But in further answer to this demand I say it was in regard of the matter of it in Babylon as the seven thousand were in the apostacy of Jeroboam out of which apostacy of Babylon God called them forth Rev. 18. 4. And so by the efficacy of that heavenly voice they being drawn forth they served God in the purity of his Ordinances a part as the Israelites that left Jeroboam and his Idol-worship 1 Thes 1. 9. at Dan and Bethel and served God at Hierusalem These turned from those Idoll waies in Babylon To the pure service of God in Sion and so kept according to the injunction the Ordinances as they were delivered to them 2 Thes 2. 15. This question is of the nature of what we have treated on before about leaving a corrupt Church for obstinacy in evill and therefore I shall not further trouble my self nor the Reader about it being assured it cannot reach so high as make good any sense of the destroying of the Church by persecution to which it is added here I shall only here minde the Reader that our question is not of one particular Church but of the state of the Church remaining in one place or other with few or many in freedome and purity or in bondage and corruption according eo various conditions and changes that attends her in the world wherein she is in all of those conditions preserved by Almighty God I. S. addeth in his further proceed saying That which once was in such a way of being and ceases for a time and then comes to the same estate againe is and may truly be said ever to continue as Mat. 22. 31. with Luk. 20. 38. In which sense the Church may be said ever to continue for though she be cast down at one time yet god will raise her againe at another so as she shall never be prevailed against so as to be utterly destryed Answ This is plaine nontsense to me first granting then denying and so the whole amounting to just nothing but a meer conceit Here is the Church in a way of being here is the Church seasing to be for a time here is the Church comming to live have being again here is the Church that ceased to be for a time affirmed untruly to have ever a being just as the Temple had when it was destroyed here is the Church cast downe that is without being for so he must mean else he deceiveth here is the Church said to be raised up by God againe and her being restored to her here is concluded the Church was never prevailed against so as to be utterly destroyed Truly truth is strong and prevaileth I. S. speaketh not as of himself but as overcome by the truth which he fought to darken and turn aside but at last is forced to confesse it as they were that had hand in crucifying Christ that said Truly this was the Son of God when they had before crucified him So Mat. 27. 54. he in like manner is in the end forced after all to confesse that the Church was never prevailed against so as to be utterly destroyed But I shall here observe how that what he before said might be made a rationall matter if it were rightly applyed as thus That which was once in such a way of being that is to say pure and undefiled and for a time ceases so to be that is becomes corrupt and defiled like the faithfull City that became an harlot And Es 1. 21. then comes the same estate againe that is to her former purity and holinesse is and may truly be said ever to have a continuation In this sense I would joine with J. S. touching the Churches continuation for though she be corrupted at one time yet God will restore her to purity at another yea If by affliction she be diminished Ps 107. 39. Ps 105. 24. and made low at one time yet at another time God increaseth her like a flock of sheep In either of which senses she hath never been prevailed against so as to be destroyed but this genuine sense J. S. may not admit of for that it will not stand with his way and practice and therefore by multiplicity of expressions he would produce some thing namely That the Church may some time live and have a being and at another time die and lose her being and yet she shall never cease to be That is be prevailed against to be destroyed and this he thinketh to prove by alluding to a place or two of holy Scripture before quoted for confirmation of his conceit To which I answer those Scriptures indeed do seem to illustrate his sense and what he intendeth namely that the Church may be said ever to continue though at some time she ceased to be But how senselesse a thing it is thus to conceit will appeare if we minde the matter a little It is the resurection of the dead which is the case now as men die and are not and yet shall live again and be so the Church in like manner But may such and such men be said to have ever a continuance in the World which is our question and not to have been destroyed by death because they shall
please So as it must be the want of his new Baptisme or nothing and then I leave it to him to judge whether that be not the form of the Church necessarily according to his ground that gives the being thereunto Secondly if by such he meanes those he was an opponent of in the former matter of the Churches continuation and likewise Baptisme under Popish defection I shall adde a little in the way of defence First granting that such hold indeed no Church to wit rightly constituted as a right or lawfull Ministeriall Church without or before the matter of this Church is baptized Secondly denying that in so holding they make Baptisme the form of the Church as he inferreth and so make Baptisme the form there is more goeth to the proof of a matter then so His five Reasons might well have been spared by which he would prove Baptisme not to be the form of the Church till he had made that to appear to be of necessity the right consequence which sure he is never able to do for there was no right Ministeriall Church of old without Circumcision yet Circumcision was not the form of that Church an uncircumcised person was not to be admitted a member much lesse an officer Circumcision was then an externall qualification of the matter as in like manner is Baptisme now In this matter we shall have recourse to the first beginning of the Church of the new Testament and of Baptisme John the Baptist the forerunner of Christ sent of God to prepare the way of his Son according to Commission baptized much people as did also afterward the Disciples of Christ our Lord to him repaired our Lord to be baptized that righteousnesse might be fulfilled It may be observed by the way that this was in the Church of the Jewes Of these thus baptized was the Church of the new Testament begun whether the initiation of it be referred to the time before the passion of our Lord as to himself and the twelve with whom he brake bread or whether it be referred to the time after his resurrection when he gathered the 120. together and blessed them as is most Acts 1. proper let him take his choice and refer to which he will it was begun of the aforesaid baptized matter which is certainly to the life of the matter in hand in discovering that the matter of the Church was fitted by Baptisme before it was laid together As was the Church at the first rise of it so was the proceed those 120. baptized those that joyned with them being not before baptized as it is written they were baptized and added to the Church This first Church scattered by persecution became the instrument of increase and the first matter of many Churches which Churches by their instruments baptized such as received the faith and joyned into the Lord and thus was the Church and Kingdome of Christ spread throughout the World as the holy history doth shew And let J. S. or any of his way shew that there was ever any unbaptized Church or Congregation of the new Testament or that ever any unbaptized person was received into fellowship or that ever any unbaptized person after Baptisme was a foot in the World baptised or was authorized for to do it And lastly let him tell me whether the order of the new Testament as in another case he asked be not as strict in this case of Baptisme as it was in Circumcision of old when no uncircumcised might have part in the Church or fellowship in the Ordinances much lesse act Ordinances Esek 44. in way of dispensing of them to others And let him tell me whether a precept or example be not as necessary in all those cases as in that of baptizing Infants And lastly whether his practice of raising and beginning the Church of unbaptized persons do agree with the primitive practice of our Lord and his Apostles that began the Church of baptized matter as before J. S. propoundeth a second Reason of his opponents thus The Scripture speaketh of no Church before Baptisme To which he answereth as he did to that of the Gates of Hell not prevailing against the Church He must distinguish he saith A meer shift to blind his Reader and avoid the truth there needs no distinction at all in the case He would not take it well if any should distinguish in case of Infants Baptisme But what is his distinction it is betwixt the truth of the doctrine of Baptisme and the administration of it just as he did in the fore-named case as much as if he had said He must distinguish betwixt the Scripture that teacheth Baptisme and Baptisme or washing according to the Scripture In this first sense Baptisme or the doctrine of Baptisme as much as if he had said the holy word of God is before the Church What this is to the purpose is beyond my judgement nor yet that which followeth no Church according to the order of Christs Testament without it or before it No Church without or before the Scripture how this is to the matter in hand and what clearing or rather darkning there is in this distinction I leave the Reader to judge But now for the second part of the distinction Namely the outward administration of Baptisme that ever followeth the Saints joyning in fellowship by mutuall faith and agreement in the Doctrine wherein consists the stating of the Church in her conjoyning in Covenant which ever goes before in the administration of Baptisme and gives power and authority for the same so saith he in the first sense the Church is not before Baptisme but in the last it is Answ The summe and scope of this whole matter amplified and enlarged is utterly false being referred to the purpose for which J. S. doth bring it namely to prove an unbaptized Church or the Scriptures speaking of such Alas this is farre from proving the matter no not in a seeming way In this case it may be truly said from the beginning it was not so The matter of the Church was fitted outwardly by Baptisme as is before declared And the Scriptures give no president of such Church officer or member at any time such a proceed being cleane besides the Scriptures 2. J. S. deceiveth if not himselfe yet others in what he setteth down in referring that to the initiation of a Church which is onely true of the proceed The Church stated and on foot in the world according to God of baptized persons baptizeth others in way of proceed in a orderly way of administration so it was at the beginning and to begin otherwise is not according to the pattern So as not taking notice of the difference between right beginning and orderly proceed he is clean out and beside the truth and his distinction will appeare to be vain and to no purpose unlesse to deceive for as he setteth down that Baptisme ever followeth in regard of the administration of it the Saints joyning in
fellowship c. this is onely true of the proceed of the Church as before but this joyning is to be of baptized matter as it was at the beginning which necessarily calleth either for a person from heaven as in the instance of John or the continuance of baptized persons in the world from John downward as is the case now though J. S. will not acknowledge the same The sum of the distinction he maketh to be this in the first sence the Church is not before the Scriptures In the last sense it is before Baptisme utterly untrue as before J. S. telleth us his distinction being observed we are not to deny a Church to be a Church though the Scriptures doe not so call it So the Scriptures of which he spake so great things in case of raising Baptisme lost are now become deficient and we may be wiser then they teach us and call a people a Church though they doe not so call them or teach us so to doe and we are not so ingaged to speak as the Word of God His reason of this strange divinity is the Church of the Old Testament and many of the new were Churches before they were so called But I say they were not rightly gathered Churches before they were baptized neither doth the Scriptures give that appellation to any in a relative way to Christ and we may not be wise above what is written Cornelius and his friends coming together were no right orderly gathered Church before Baptisme neither doth the Scripture so call them After all said that may be he demandeth why it may not be so that a Church may be a Church before Baptisme be administred why may not children be baptized I would aske him let him tell me that I will tell him why Againe he saith a Church is so a Church before Baptisme as that the end of her union is for communion J. S. at the last doth in effect in a modest way give up the cause A Church so a Church That is in another way then at the beginning it was when it was first instated Againe in another way then according to a right Constitution and orderly way of serving God Again is a Church so as a betrothed Virgin is a wife before the day of her Espouslas and playeth the Harlot in the mean time and so defileth the marriage bed So is an unbaptized Church a Church of Christ After this he is up with the substance of his five Reasons before alledged to prove that Baptisme was not the forme of the Church but the Covenant And what then for I will not meddle with his Reasons be they right or wrong A Church may be in Covenant and fellowship before Baptisme be administred so as Cornelius and his friends were But I say such a Church can never administer Baptisme according to God unlesse they had a man sent to them as Iohn was sent or as Peter was to Cornelius and his friends He is pleased to call such a Church whom the Scripture calleth not so But what he here setteth down he doth as formerly but say it and not prove it so as we need not much stand upon it A People are a Church by covenant he saith to which Ordinances are annexed But the matter of this Church is to be first outwardly sitted by Baptism An orderly way is necessary and that is by persons sent of God as was John here he deceiveth again affirming that of his so a Church which is onely true of a Church stated and on foot according to God in the world as was the Church of the new Testament baptized and so the matter outwardly sitted by John before the building was erected He quoteth Gen. 17. 11. Ezek. 16. 8. Act. 2. 41. Ephes 4. 5. and concludeth thus So here was a Church before Ordinances or before ever Baptisme was administred either by John the Baptist or the Apostles To which I answer in regard of those two places of the old Testament alledged in this matter in question It is at least as far off as the proving the baptizing of Infants from Circumcision or their being baptized of old to Moses in the cloud and sea which he 1 Cor. 10. accounteth nothing to the purpose as indeed this is little to the purpose They use to ask in the instance before when produced whether that Baptisme of the cloud c. was the Baptisme of the new Testament I in like manner ask him whether those were the ministeriall Churches of the new Testament Alas this matter is too far fetcht I could tell him of a Church and a great one too without faith or the profession of it namely that gathered by Demetrius and his fellow Crafts-men Act. 19. 25. 46. he happily will count it to no purpose truly so is his matter here As for those instances in the new Testament sure he was much over-seen in them and very inconsiderate Those Act. 2. 41. had broken bread and prayed and were baptized before they were a Church As for the Church of Ephesus no question but that was also baptized in like manner and he might from that place as well prove a Church to be before faith as before Baptisme by any thing I can perceive Certainly he had little aim in bringing such places of Scripture to prove a people to be a Church of the new Testament before Baptisme was administred to them at least that it should be so before Johns Baptisme that according to the Commission of God administred Baptisme to fit the matter of the Church before ever it was laid into form A further Objection he setteth down thus Some say from Act. 2. 41. they were added to the Church after they were baptized What is his Answer If it were so they should neither put on Christ nor yet be baptized into one body nor to the true profession of the Father Son and holy Ghost c. directly against these Scriptures Gal. 3. 27. 1 Cor. 12. 13. Matth. 28. 19. Answ I am very sorry to see such weaknesse in persons pretending to and promising much strength of knowledge For First all those that John Baptist baptized could neither put on Christ nor be baptized into one body nor into the true profession of the Father c. by his account and reckoning and so his practice of baptizing was contrary to those Scriptures by his reckoning Was not John Baptist to blame Secondly how appeareth it that if persons sent of God as was John of old as is necessary to raise Baptisme if it were lost out of the world as they hold baptizing according to their Commission that those they baptize cannot put on Christ nor be baptized into one body nor into the true profession of the Trinity onely because J. S. saith so without any shew of ground For Thirdly those Scriptures cited have no such thing in them certainly to the judgement of any rationall man neither can it be imagined that there is any let in regard of any of them why a person sent of God should not baptize before the Church be formed For that in Acts 2. 41. he saith It is onely declarative of the great increase of the Church through Gods goodnesse To which I answer That it declareth plainly that they were of and by that Church baptized that they were added unto in as much as the Church receiveth no unwashen ones If it were questioned whether the Church receive them before she baptize them or baptize them before she receive them I would give my thoughts that in strictnesse of concluding neither are first for these are so interwoven that they go together are unseparable As thus persons beleeving being unbaptized the Church openeth her arms to receive them but before she can fully imbrace them they must be washed and so made like the rest of the body There is a different case to be taken knowledge of First of the seed of the Church by generation I mean they are of the Church first and baptized for righteousnesse sake because they are of the Church and for the end before specified Secondly the case of converted Infidels their accesse to the Church and Ordinances is as before as it was in like manner of old in Israel the infants were circumcised because they were a part of Israel that they might answer the whole But the Converts of the Nations they were circumcised that they might be of the Church and have fellowship in the same The case I conceive to be even so now which I note in way of digression as a touch to be Exod. 12. 48. considered of though happily J. S. will think it to no purpose There is another Argument which he setteth down and maketh answer unto all the difference amounteth but to that of the circumstance of time and hath nothing in it substantiall I shall not make the difference greater but shall leave J. S. to his constituting causes of his unbaptized Church and shall forbear to trouble him or my self or the Reader any further but leave all to the judgement of the godly wise FINIS ERRATA PAg. 11. l. 20. for Infants r. Intents p. 13. l. 16. for shrine r. shrinke p. 14. l. 36. for and priviledge r. a priviledge p. 45. l. 34. for constitation r. constitution