poynt of the mater and to flater the temporalty tourneth all his tale and his raylynge wordes agaynst the clergye yet in very dede the whole bodye of the chyrche is the thynge that he heweth at and that he calleth the heretikes For of spyrytualty and temporalty all is one fayth and of the whole catholyque chyrche hath from the begynnynge euer ben our mater Then consyder I say now that where he sayth that the catholyque chyrche now is fallen from the fayth of the old chyrche of Chryste and his apostles we can not denye but that Tyndale so sayth But then se we well and so we saye agayne and saye therin very trewe that when Tyndale so sayth he lyeth For ye se your selfe that Tyndale proueth thys tale but by hys bare worde â—n that we byleue not as he doth that good workes are naught worth and that the sacraments be gracelesse and but bare sygnes and tokens and yet not so myche neyther by Tyndales tale but onely dumme ceremonyes that neyther say nor sygnyfye and that men do wronge to worshyppe the body and blood of Cryste in the blessed sacrament and that there is nothynge therin but very bare brede and wyne or starch in stede of brede that freres may well wedde nuÌ„nys and such other goodly thynges lyke whyche false artycles to be trew he neyther hath proued nor can proue whyle he lyueth nor all y e heretykes in this world nor yet all the deuyls in hell Now haue we well proued you that in all suche poyntes we haue the selfe same fayth that Cryste and hys apostles had and tawght And in these poyntes we proue that the scrypturys of them be on our parte And yet saye we also that we be sure therof by that that Cryste and hys apostles dyd delyuer vs these thynges by mouthe besyde the wrytynge by whyche we sholde also haue bene sure therof all though they neuer hadde ben wryten as we be by that meane sure of some other thynges that were lefte vnwryteÌ„ and onely delyuered by Chryste to hys apostles and by his apostles to the chyrche and therin perpetually kept by the spyryte of god that Cryste accordynge to his promyse sent vnto his chyrche to lede it in to all trouth and by his owne perpetuall assystence and presence wyth hys chyrche for euer as hym selfe promysed also Of whyche thynges well knowen and yet vnwryten is for ensample one that we be bounden to byleue the perpetuall virgynyte of our lady wherwyth I haue troubled Tyndale onys or twyse here afore and hym selfe whyle he labored to wynde oute hathe so messhed and entangled hym selfe therin that he hath in the handelynge of that one mater alone vtterly destroyed the fundacyoÌ„ of all the heresyes that they haue in all theyr whole Ragmans roll An other ensample of the tradycioâ—s wythout wrytyng maye be the puttynge of the water in to the wyne at the masse wherwyth the kynges noble grace in such wyse handeled Luther that in answerynge thervnto Luther fareth as one that were fallen frantyke and sayth now thys now that and woteth not where he maye holde hym but sayeth somtyme that the water maye be lefte oute or put in as the chyrche lyâ—te to order And thenne agayne he sayth that it ought to be lefte oute and not putte in for as myche as it hath sayth he an euyll sygnyfycacyon that is to wyt thaâ— the pure scrypture is mengled and watered wyth mennes tradycyons and therfore they sholde he sayth synge masse and consecrate with onely wyne alone and so by lykelyhed they do therfore suche freres as wedde nonnes But holy saynt Cypryan that blessed bysshope and very gloryous martyr a man one of the beste lerned that euer wrote in Crystes catholyke chyrche wryteth playnely .xiii. huÌ„dred yere before Luther was borne that the water must nedes in and that Chryste put water in to it at hys owne maundy when he consecrated and ordayned it hym selfe And thys blessed saynte Cypryane thought hym selfe bounden bothe so to byleue and to teche vppon the tradycyons of thapostles besyde theyr wrytynges Thus wryteth saynte Cypryane contrary to Luthers doctryne clere But I can let no man to byleue now whyther of theym bothe they lystâ— How be it I se not greately why Luther sholde be better byleued thenne he but yf it be bycause saynt Cypryane wolde not wedde and Luther hathe wedded a nonne But as I beganne to saye remembre good reader that where as we saye that in the greate varyaunce of oure faythes the fayth I saye of the catholyque chyrche and the fayth whyche these heretyques professe to the contrary we proue our fayth by the scryptures and they saye naye and afferme that they proue theyrs by y â— scryptures wherunto we saye naye all the questyon for the more parte ryseth or hath at the leste wyse euer hytherto rysen not vppon the scrypture selfe but vppon the construccyon thereof that is to saye not whyther the wordes were holy scrypture or no that were for scrypture alledged but what was of that scrypture the trewe sense and ryghte vnderstandynge For as for whyche was holy and autentyke scrypture and whyche not we haue be a great whyle very well agreed sauyng that Luther of late and frere Barns after hym wolde fayne putte oute saynte Iamys pystle and saythe it hath no smacke of any apostolyque spyryte bycause it sayth that fayth waxeth dede wythout good workes and hath a playne place also for the sacrament of anelynge And Fryth wolde haue out quyte the bokes of the Macha beys bycause it proueth for purgatory and for the incâ—rcessyon of sayntes And now semeth Tyndale to make a secrete insinuacyoÌ„ of some other scrypture than Chrystes and hys apostles whyche other scrypture he semeth to call the trewe scrypture and sayth that from the catholyke chyrch whych hym selfe confesseth to haue the scrypture of Cryst and hys apostles hym selfe and hys felowes goo nowe to the trewe scrypture But now lettynge hys other new trewe scrypture alone tyll he reherse vs some therof euer hytherto all our debate and varyauÌ„ce hath bene about the exposycyon eche parte layenge to the others charge false glosynge of the trewe scrypture Then syth the dowte bytwene theyr fayth and oures resteth vppon that poynt consyder good chrysten reader that we proue that the consent of all the olde holy doctours and sayntes of euery age synnys chrystendome fyrste began vnto frere Luthers owne dayes is vppon our parte agaynste them And this haue I proued what saye I thys haue I proued nay thys haue I say them selfe proued in that theyr hed capytayne Luther prowdely reiecteth and shaketh of the sayntes wyth hys sleue lyke flyes by the whole huÌ„dred at onys in one place in hys boke of Babilonica spekyng of the canoÌ„ of the masse wherin he coÌ„fesseth that they stand all agaynste hym he setteth not a rysshe by theym all but shaketh them of all at onys sayth the
ones thynke vppon hym For as for any endeuour of theym selfe at goddes good mocyon towarde the fayth they do no more he sayth then doth the chylde towarde the gettynge of hys owne father And hys mercy wayteth euer vppon them And theyr fayth doth neuer at any tyme fayle them nor they do neuer sinne dedely what horryble abominable â—edes so euer they do And syth these folke that are Tyndals electes haue or wene they haue suche a felynge fayth that therby they fele or ellys wene they fele that they can not be dampned but haue here lerned of Tyndale now that what horryble dedes so euer they do they can neuer do dadely synne and be also very sure to repente and theâ— to be neuer punyshed in hell purgatorye nor in thys lyfe neyther For so farre sayth Tyndale now but wyth a shorte repentaunce after longe lyenge in synne sayenge ones Chryste helpe for the maner sake as it were after a snesynge the freâ—ys may froÌ„ y â— nonnes beddes stye euen vp strayght to heuen they may therfore be â—olde hardy hardly so they be to fall to what workes they wyll For syth theyr fayth is both full of false heresyes also can neuer fayle them they may make them selfe sure you se well that they shall be no worse parde not when they be at the very wurste then faythfull harlottes faythfull auoâ—trers faythfull vowbrekers faythfull theuys faythfull murdres faythfull traytours to men and faythfull heretykes to god And these be as ye se nowe Tyndalys specyall electes whyche onely nomber by hys hygh spyrytuall doctryne he wolde we sholde take for the chyrche Now good Chrysten reders yf we wolde graunte vnto Tyndale that all hys lyes were trew that he hath made in all thys hole proceâ—se of his vnto the ende yet were he farre from the prouynge of hys pryncypall purpose that is to tell vs and teche vs whyche is the chyrche towarde the techynge wherof he hath no thynge ellys done but onely gyuen vs two dyffynycyons Of whyche so declared as they be neyther nother is suffycyent for hys purpose and yet the secunde mych lesse then the fyrste For where as in the fyrste he defyneth it to be onely the electys in whose hartes god hath wryten hys lawe wyth hys holy spyryte and gyuen them a felynge fayth of the mercy that is in Chryste Iesu our lorde afterwarde in the secunde he sayth that it is the hole multytude of all repentynge synners that byleue in Chryst and put all theyr truste and confydence in the mercy of god felynge in theyr hartes that god for Chrystes sake loueth them and wyll be or rather is mercyfull vnto them and forgyueth them theyr synnes of whyche they repente and all the mocyons vnto synne of whyche they fere that they shall be drawen into synne agayne and thus they byleue and fele wythout any respecte of theyr owne deseruynge ye and for none other cause then that the mercyfull trouth of god the father whyche can not lye hath so promysed and sworne Now ye remember that Tyndale hath put you by the waye two specyall greate heresyes One that who so euer after baptysme â—ynneth ones of purpose and wyllyngly shall neuer haue remyssyon after The tother that who so haue onys hys felynge fayth can neuer synne dedely after Lette vs now se in the ende besyde that these heresyes of hys be all redy otherwyse impuâ—ned and reproued let vs yet forther se how hys dyâ—fyâ—ycyon of the chyrche and hys heresyes wyll iumpre and agre to gyther amonge theym selfe And fyrste I aske Tyndale whyther he that haue ones after hys baptysme synned of purpose and wyllyngly and sette malycyousely therto maye after by goddes helpe repente agayne that euer he sâ— dyd and byleue therwithall that he is bounden to byleue and loue god and hys neyghbours as god byddeth â—ym to do Maye he after suche a synne done do thys by goâ—des helpe oâ— not Tyndale wyll peraduenture say he maye not Then I aske hym how he proueth that Therto peraduenture he wyll saye that the wordes of saynte Poule It is impossyblâ— that they whyche haue ones ben illumyned c. and the woâ—des of oure sauyoure hym selfe spoken of the synne of blasphemye agaynst the holy goste do prouâ— it whyche I wyll then denye For those places takynge them as falsely as any heretyke can construe theym saye yet at the vttermoste no more but that hys synne shall neuer be forgyuen hym and sayth not that he shall neuer agayne repente nor that he shall neuer well byleue nor that he shall neuer after loue god nor hys neyghbour wherunto yf Tyndale wyll saye that yf he myght come to very repentaunce and very bylyefe and loue he nâ—des muste haue hys synnes remytted and be saued and syth god sayeth he shall neuer be forgyuen and so neuer saued he sayth he shall neâ—er so repent and byleue and loue to that I answere Tyndale two thynges One that god in all hys threttes reserueth hys specyall prerogatyue of hys mercy by whyche hys absolute power is neuer bounden vnder any rule of his ordinaâ—y iustyce Secundely I say that for as myche as those woâ—des be â—ynatory and threttes they be all of trouth none â—â—herwyâ—e to be vnderstanden then excepte he repent As god hym selfe playnely expouned 〈…〉 suche woâ—â—es by the mouth of hys owne holy prophâ—te Ezechiel sayngeâ— Thougâ— I sholde saye to a synner thou shalte dye and the same â—ynner repent hym of hys synne and deale iustely and ryghtuousely and delyuer agayne the pledge and make restytucyon of the â—oâ—bery thâ—â— he hath commyâ—â—ed and walke in the commaundementes of lyfe and 〈…〉 vnâ—yghtâ—ouse thyng he shall lyue in lyfe 〈◊〉 shall 〈…〉 Of all hys synnes none shall be layed to hys chargeâ— He 〈◊〉 delte iustely and ryghtâ—ously he shall lyue in lyfe 〈…〉 ye he destroyeth hys heresye for then he graunteth that he whyche after baptysme sinneth malycyousely maye for all that be saued If he saye nay then he destroyeth hys dyffynycyon for then maye there be some repentaunte synners wyth all that euer in hys dyffynycyon foloweth and yet they shal be none of the chyrche of hys electes And thus muste eyther his heresye distroye hys diffinicyon or his diffinicion muste destroy his heresye Of whâ—che twayne yet it wyll be more honestie for hym to kepe his diffinicyon styll whervpon all his whole mater hangeth and let his heresy go to the deuyll y t gaue it to hym than vnderstande those places of scripture whervpon the deuill taught hym to grounde it that eyther the blasphemye agaynste the holy goost is finall impenitence and the tother no restytucyon by the penaunce to the reuocacyon of baptysme or els that the sore wordes of the both places after a certayne vehement maner of speche vsed in holy scripture somtyme signifyeth onely great hardenes and difficultie nat as hym selfe techeth vs an vttre impossybilyte of remyssyon But nowe let
to be shauen For in thys wyse lo the wyse man begynneth Tyndale Nothwithstandynge aâ— bycause as they be all shauen so they be all shamelesâ—e to afferme that they be the ryght chyrche and can not erre though all tâ—e woâ—lde seeth that nâ—t one of them is in the ryght waye And that they haue with vttre difâ—yaunce forsaken bothe the doctryne and the lyuynge of Chryste and of all his apostels let vs se the sophestrye wherewith they wolde perswade it One of theyr hyghe reâ—sons is this More Lo syr here Tyndale affirmeth that lyke wyse as all the clergy be shauen so they be all shamelesse therfore hathe his mayster Martyn Luther let his crowne growe and lyeth with a nonne to lerne of his lemman some very maydenly shamefastnes But nat tyll her here was wel growen agayne ye muste vnderstande for she was before for lacke of her heare as shameleâ—se as Luther ye wote well But nowe why be all the shauen clergy shamelesse sayth Tyndale Bycause they affirme that they be the ryghte churche Nowe whan Tyndale knoweth well that we speke of the catholyke churche And than here dissimuleth that the clergye so calleth the ryght churche of Christ and that they call the hole catholike chyrch nat theÌ„ selfe aloneâ— but them selfe and the temporaltie to gether as Tindall may well lerne by euery poore freres prayour y e precheâ—h eyther hath Tyndale shauen his â—rowne agayneâ— or elles is there as god wolde one yet vnshauen as shameles as any that was shauen this seuen yere But yet whan he goeth farther and sayeth that all the whole worlde seeth that of the whole clergye beynge all shauen there is nat one of them all in the ryght wayeâ— but that they haue all euerychone with vttre defiance forsaken bothe the doctryne and the lyuynge of Christe and all hâ—s apostels I verely beleue in good faythe that Tyndale shall scantely fynde any one so shamelesse amonge hâ—s owne sorte that is to say amonge all the sectes of hereâ—ykes but that wyll confesse vppon hys conscyence that Tyndale here lyeth out of all measure shamefully And whan he hathe about the profe of thys poynte bestowed all redy hys whole chapyter afore wherein he câ—me forth perdy with his fyue egges after a great face made of a great feste supped them all vp hym selfe without anâ— salte for all his gestes that he bode to supper myght smell them so roten that they supped of the sauour Nowe to come forthe agayne with the same tale and set vs to the same table at supper agayne with neyther bredde nor drynke flessâ—e fysshe nor frute This man well declareth vs that thoughe he be nat shauen but haue his hâ—are of hys vnshavyn crowne growen out at greate lengthe in despyghte of prestehed and lyke an Iselandâ— curre lette hange ouer hys eyen yet hath the man as myche shame in hys face as a shotten herynge hath shrympes in her tayle For surely yf there were any one sparke of shame in his whole body it wolde sette hys face a fyre to speke amonge chrysten men that other folke are out of the ryghte waye when he woteth well that hys wrytynge sheweth in what wronge waye hym selfe is how farre fallen frome Crystes holy techynge wyth hys bestely doctryne vnder name of matrymony to cowple to gyther freres and nunnes in lechery and hys abomynable mockynge of Crystes owne blessed body But now bycause he speketh of our sophystrye let vs consyder how substancyally the man soyleth the fyrste reason that he wolde were rekened so lyghte And I truste ye shall se that one reason somwhat better then all hys hole fyue were which I haue answered in the next boke before Tyndale One of tâ—â—yr hyghe reasons is The chyrche saye they was before the heretyâ—es and the heretykes came euer out of the chyrche and lefte it they were before all them whiche they now call heretykes and Lutherans and the Lutherans came out of them c. wherfore they be the ryghte chyrche and the other heretykes in dede as they â—e called well I wyll lyke wyse dyspute Fyrste the ryght châ—rche was vnder Moses Aaron and so forth in whose râ—umeâ— satte the Scrybes Pharysees and hygh prestes in the tyme of Crist and they were before Cryste and Cryste and his apostles came out of theym and departed from them and lefte them wherfore the Scrybes Pharysees hygh prestes were the ryght chyrche and Cryste and his apostles and disâ—yâ—ses heretâ—kes and a damnable secte And so the â—ewes are yet in the ryghte waye and we in errour And of trouth yf theyr â—â—ynde reason be good then is this argument so to For they be lyke and are bâ—the one thynge More Now good chrysten reader thys reason that Tyndale so ryally sâ—offeth out wyth a lyke argument of hys owne makynge he telleth you not where he redde But it well appereth that he hath redde it in other mennes bokes besyde myne for ellys he wolde not saye one of theyr hyghe reasons but one of hys hyghe reasons yf he toke the reasoÌ„ but for myne alone But thys is hys fasshyon lo in all thynges he maketh as though he mocke but men of these later dayes whyche latter dayes hym selfe calleth yet eyght hundred yere and more But he mocketh in dede those olde holy doctours whiche dyed and some were martyred aboue a thousande yere agone For ye shall vnderstande that this reason whiche Tyndale so scornefully reherseth and wolde seme to shake of so lyghtly was nat only made by me in my dyaloge but also before my dayes by dyuers good and great connyng men And amonge other thys reason that Tyndale in scorne calleth an hyghe reason was made by that great faâ—ous doctourand hyghe gloryous martyr saynte Cyprian agaynste Nouatiane and fortunacian and other heretykes and scysmatykes in and before his dayes Nowe is saynt Cyprian a man of suche authoryte that the greate holy doctour saynte Austayne alledgeth as reuerently saynt Cyprian as any man now alledgeth saint Austyne And thys reason that Tyndale nowe derydeth and mocketh saynt Cyprian thought so sure specially so furnysshed with scryptures as he sette hit forthe that he vseth it nat ones or twyse but in sondry places so often agaynst heretykes that it maketh me euyn sory to se howe sore god suffred that good saynte to be deceyued yf an heretyke myght nowe by a lyke formed argumente lo shortely and so shamefully shake hys reason of But I wyll nat do saynt Cyprian so moche dishonour as to sette hym to dispute with Tyndale But syth Tyndale and I be somwhat more metely matches He I shal therfore betwene vs twayne fyrst dispute and discusse and than you good christen reders shall after discerne iudge whether the reason that he reherseth and the reason that he maketh by whiche as by the lyke he wolde fayne seme to soyle it be as he sayeth they be bothe lyke and bothe one or not For the better perceyuynge wherof
here therat and leseth not onely hys labour in the ende but also by some of hys own argumentes wherwyth he wolde impugne it maketh it rather more stronge and proueth it playne inexpugnable But Tyndale all be it that he reherse the reason â—n such wyse hym selfe that he soyleth it not afterwarde so surely as he reherseth it nor neuer were lyke whyâ—e he lyueth all though the reason had no more then he reherseth yet doth the kynges grace agaynste Luther besydes all thys that Tyndale reherseth put an other pyece or twayne of pytthe and strength therin For where as in the tyme of holy saynt Austayne suche heretykes as then were played as these do now denyenge the comon knowen catholyke chyrche to be the very chyrche of god and the doctryne therof to be trewe that blessed doctour amonge many other thynges wyth whyche he playnely confuted that folysshe heresyeâ— sayed and affermed playnely that hym self sholde not haue byleued the gospell but yf the authoryte of the catholyke chyrche compelled hym therunto Thys sayenge of saynt Austayne Luther hym selfe alloweth For though he wyll in no wyse agree that the hole catholyke chyrch gathered to gyther in a generall couÌ„sayl hath any authoryte or powre to make any lawes at all yet he graunteth that the certaynty by which we knowe and be put in suretye whyche is the very scrypture of god and whyche not a man hath hys lernyng and teachyng of that poynte by the chyrche of god for the chyrche hath sayth Luther accordynge to the sayenge of Austayne thys thynge geuen it of god that it can iudge and dyscerne the wordes of god from the wordes of men Then layed oure sayde souerayne lorde Luthers owne wordes agaynste Luthers owne heresyes for the faythe of the catholyke chyrche in dyuers places dyuers wayes For syth Luther confessed that the chyrche hath that gyfte of god that it can dyscerne the word of god from the word of man it foloweth sayeth hys grace that those thynges whyche the chyrche sayeth is the worde of god vnwryten and tradycyons of the apostles of whyche Luther wolde none byleue bycause they were not wryten be the very worde of god as well as those that be wryten And in that reason hys grace gaue Luther Tyndale and all theyr whole secte such a sure fall that they shall neuer well aryse and walke vp ryght whyle they lyue agayn For as hys hyghnes layed vnto hym syth Luther can not saye nay but that he must byleue the chyrch when it telleth hym that these thynges god caused hys apostles to wryte wherfore must he not as mych byleue it wheÌ„ it telleth hym These thynges god caused hys apostles to tell and teche by mouth Then layed his hyghnes vnto Luther ferther his owne wordes agaynst hym selfe this wyse Luther hym selfe confesseth y t god hath gyuen the chyrche that gyfte that it can dyscerne the wordes of god from the wordes of men And wherfore hath he giuen the chyrch that gyfte but bycause he wyll not suffre hys chyrch to fall into such a perylous errour as to take the wordes of men for y e wordes of god wherby men myght fall to some euyll opynyons as well in fayth as other vertuys But so is it that by the errour of wronge takynge the sense of goddes wordes men may fall into the lyke perell also to a great deale greater For the wrytynge of man taken for the scrypture of god myghte eyther by some conuenyent coment deuysed vpon the trewth wryten in mennes hartes or by the playne persuasyon coÌ„fessyon of our own ignorauÌ„ce that the senteÌ„ce were not suffyciently perceyued vnderstandeÌ„ myght I say be conteyned kepte from doynge any great harme But the scrypture of god taken as it is for hys own wordes then vnderstonden falsely muste nedys caste the people into a very fals errour in stede of very trewe fayth Now theruppon it very well foloweth that god neuer wyll permyt suffre hys chyrche to fall in any dampnable errour thorow mysse vnderstaÌ„dyng wrong declaracyoÌ„ of y e scripture for as mych as by the takyng in necessary poyntes of fayth or vertue the false sentence for the trewe must nedes growe mych more perell and harme then by the takyng of maÌ„nys false wrytynge for y â— trew scripture of god By thys argument lo the kynges hyghnes vtterly confuted Luther vpon Luthers owne wordes proued hym that he may neuer say nay for shame but that in all necessary poyntes the very trew sense and eâ—posycyon of the scrypture is in the chyrche the holy doctours therof whose exposycyoÌ„s as by theyr bokes appereth openly reproue such exposycyons therof as all these heretykes haue deuysed for the mayntenaunce of theyr heresyes Then layed hys hyghnesse vnto Luther hys owne wordes afore sayd yet agayn in thys wyse Syth god hath as Luther confesseth gyuen the chyrch that gyfte that it dyscerneth the wordes of god frome the wordes of man Luther well sheweth hym selfe such as he is whyle he calleth the pystle of saynt Iamys the worde of man whyche the chyrch hath so longe dyscerned and iudged for the worde of god Fynally the selfe same wordes of Luther as the kynges hyghnes handeleth them fully do conclude Luther Tyndale both in prouyng the knowen catholyke chyrche to be the very chyrche whyche is now as ye knowe well all our whole mater For syth saynt Austayne sayth and Luther also confesseth that the chyrch hath thys gyfte of god that it dyscerneth the very scrypture of god from the wrytynge of man and in those wordes both saynt Austayn and Luther both spake of the knowen catholyke chyrche and not of an vnknowen chyrch yt appereth playne that both saynt Austayne and Luther afferme confesse agre that the knoweÌ„ catholyke chyrch is the very chyrch and not that any chyrche of heretykes is the chyrche for to none of them god neuer gaue that gyfte of dyscresyon For no man euer toke the scrypture bycause any of them sayd so but all they as they haue comen out of the catholyke chyrch so haue of the catholyke chyrche receyued the scrypture and vppon the credence of that chyrche haue they all byleued it as Tyndale can not denye though these newe heretykes be nowe for defence of theyr heresyes fayne to forsake some part of the scrypture to Now good chrysten readers consyder well I requyre you these effectuall poyntes whych our souerayn lorde so substancyally layed vnto Luther vpon hys owne wordes and I dowte not but your selfe shall easyly perceyue se that the same thynges shall stande stronge and sure ouer that answere and ouerthrowe all the substaunce of Tyndals solucyon here whose wordes lette vs now loke on agayne and examyne Tyndale Thys wyse reason is theyr shote ancre and all theyr whole refuge and chyefe stone in theyr fundacyon wheruppon they haue bylte all theyr lyes and all theyr myschyefe that they haue wrought these .viij. hundred yeres
that the sterrys are not clene in the syghte of god And therfore the chyrche techeth euery man to say as Chryst sayth in the gospell that do we neuer so well we haue done but oure dutye and so gyue the thanke of all the rewarde vnto goddes mere lyberall goodnesse of whose gyfte grace we haue taken all the thynges that we wurke any good wythall myghte wytte faculte fre wyll body soule and all For as saynt Poule sayth what haste thou that thou haste not receyued And then yf thou haste receyued what gloryest thou as though thou haddeste not receyued it These thynges lo doth the knowen catholyke chyrche teche and in thys wyse do they interprete and declare the scryptures And therfore yf frere Barons hadde here ment none other thynge he myghte very well haue spared mych of hys gaye golden processe beynge as it is impertynente to the pryncypall purpose But he meneth therin that man maye towarde remyssyon meryte no thynge at all nor that no merytes of man shall haue any rewarde in heuen but that all to gether standeth in fayth alone whyche lyes he hath as I sayed lerned of the deuyll alone And that he thus meaneth hym selfe well declareth by his madde poysened processe that all onely fayth iustifyeth before god And that the deuyll hath taught it hym appereth playnely by that the spyryte of god hath inspyred the contrary doctryne into hys holy apostle Paule whyche wryteth vnto the Romaynes Not the herers of the lawe are iuste before god but the doers of the lawe shall be iustyfyed And our sauyour hym self sayth in y e gospell of saynt Luke Happy be they that here the worde of god and kepe it And agayne also by the mouth of the holy and blessed apostle saynte Iamys be ye doers of the worde and not hearers onely deceauyng your selfe Now where he sayth that all the blessynges and all the holy water can not clense a man nor gyue hym remyssyon thys lerned he of the knowen catholyke chyrche as farre forth as it is trewe For none of all these neyther the men nor the thynges can do any good of them selfe as of them selfe For so sayth saynt Poule we be not suffycient of our selfe as of oure selfe For theffecte and effycacy of all these thynges cometh of god But frere Barons meneth that there is in all the blessynges and all the holy water holy brede and so forth in all the ceremonyes and almoste all y â— sacramentes vsed in the knowen catholyke chyrche none effycacye at all whych lye the deuyll and the deuyls lymmes haue taught hym For that he so meneth we knowe by hys maysters and hys felowes both the archeretykes and bretherne of hys many sundry sectes whyche call the sacrameÌ„tes but onely bare sygnes and tokens and by many places also of hys owne peuysshe processes in whyche he maketh mockes and mowes at the holy rytes and cerymonies and many of the sacrameÌ„tes vsed in the catholyke chyrche And that the deuyll and the deuyls lymmes haue taught it hym appereth bothe by the catholyke fayth of all chrysten peple thys .xv. C. yere by y e playn wordes of holy scripture also For that holy brede is farre a nother maner thynge then Barons taketh yt for appereth very well by the wordes of saynte Paule where he sayth euery creature of god is good and nothynge ought to be reiected and refused that is receyued wyth thankes geuyn For yt is sanctyfyed by the worde of god and prayour And as concernynge the holy sacramentes of anelyng thus writeth the blessed apostle saint Iames in his epistle Is there any man sycke amonge you let hym sende for the prestes of the chyrche and let theym pray for hym and lete them anoynt hym wyth the oyle in the name of our lorde the prayour of faith shall saue the syk persoÌ„ our lord shall rayse hym vp yf he be in synnys they shall be forgeuen hym And of confessyon he writeth in the same pystle immediatly after in this wise CoÌ„fesse ye your sinnes one to a nother and pray ye one for a nother that ye may be healed For myche is thâ—â—feruent prayour worth of a ryghteouse man For the sacrameÌ„t of coÌ„fyrmacyon yt is wryten in the Actes of thapostles then they that is to wyt saynt Peter and saynt IohnÌ„ layed theyr handes vppon them and they receyued the holy goost Moreouer for the sacrameÌ„t of matrymony we haue the playne and open wordes of saynte Poule to the Ephesies This is a greâ— sacrameÌ„t but I say in Cryste and in the chyrch And as for holy orders that at the geuynge of them grace is infounded into the persones that receyue them the fyrst pystle to Timothe and y â— second both do playnely proue In the fyrste pystle saynte Poule sayth thus dyspyse not the grace which is in the that was geuen vnto the by prophecye wyth the layeng of the handes of presâ—hed vppon the. And in the seconde pystle affyrmynge the same he sayth in this wyse I warne the to resuscytate and sterre vppe the grace that is in the by the laynge of my handes vppon the. Now that I haue good readers opened vnto you the couert purpose of Barons deuelyshe doctryne planted in amonge his mokkes and his iestes that there is nothyng well and trewly sayd in all his processe but that he hath lerned of the playn comen teachyng of the knowen catholyke chyrche let vs examyne and coÌ„sydre now the chyrche that he dyffyneth vs and then se whyther the authoritees that he alledgeth here of saynt Poule and saynte Austaynte do proue vs the chyrche that he promyseth The very trew chyrche is sayth he pure and clene with out spot or wryncle Also the very chyrche is of goddes eleccyon Also they that byleue that Chryste hath weshed theym from theyr synnes and stykke faste vnto his merytes and to the promyses made to theym in hym onely they be the chyrche of god and so pure and so clene that it shall not be lawfull no not for saynt Peter to say that they be vnclene Also the holy chyrche of Cryste is nothynge elles but that congregacyon that is sanctyfyed in spyryte redemyd with Crystes blood and stykketh faste and sure all onely to the promyses that be made therin Now se ye well good reders that the chyrch whych Barons here assygneth is all pure and clene and not onely hath no theues nor murderers nor whores nor bawdes therin but is also so pure that not saynte Peter hym selfe may be so bolde to fynde any faute in any man of this congregacyon But the causes why be bycause they be all of goddes eleccyon and all washed and made fayre by god and sanctyfyed in spyryt and redemed with Cristes blood and stykke all faste onely to the promyses Remember now good reders that yf frere Barons abyde by his descrypcyon then is
that be in Iudea lette thâ—m fle vp in to the mountayeâ—s that is to saye they that be in chrystendome lette theym gyue them selfe to scrypturs Wherfore commaundeth he that all chrystened men in that tyme shulde flye vnto scrypturs â—or in that tyme in thâ— whyche heresies haue optayned in to the chyrch there can be no trâ—we probacyon of chrystendome nor no nother refuge vnto chrysten men wyllynge to know the veryte of fayth but the scrypturs of god Afore by many wayesâ— was it shewed which was the chyrche of Cryste and whiche was the congregacyon of gâ—ntyles â—ut now there is none other waye to knowe vnto them that wyll knowe whiche is the very trew chyrche of Chryste but alonely by scrypture By workes fyrste waâ— the chyrche of Cryst knowen whan the conuersacyon of chrysten men other of all or of many were holy the whiche holines â—ad not the wycked men but nâ—w chrysten men be as euyll oâ— worse than heretykes or gentylys ye and greater coÌ„tinencye is founde amonge them than amonge chrysten men Wherfore he that wyll knowe whiche is the very chyrch of Cryste how shall he know but by scripturs onely Wherfore our lorde consyderynge that so great confusyon of thynges shulde come in this latter dayes therfore commaundeth he that chrysten men whyche be in chrystendome wyllynge to reserue the stedfastnesse of trewe fayth shulde flye vnto none other thynge but vnto scryptures for yf they haue respecte vnto other thynges they shall be slaundered and shall peryshe not vnderstondynge whiche is the trewe chyrche c. These wordes nede no exposycion they be playne inough they do also exclude all maner of lernynge sauynge holy scrypture wherfore se how you can with honesty saue your holy lawes and defende them agaynst Chrysostome More ouer yf Chrysostom complayne of the incontynency that was in hys dayes how wold he complayne yf he now lyued and sawe the boudry and fornycacyon that is in the chyrche Also he sendyth men to scryptures that wyll know the holy chyrch not vnto the holy chyrch for in the chyrch were heresyes but not in scripture Also saynt Paule wytnessyth the same sayenge you are bylte vppon the fundacyon of the apostels and prophetes here haue you playnely that the very trew chyrche is grounded ye and foundyd of holy scrypture and therfore where so euer that the worde of god is preched that is a good token that there be some men of Christes chyrche But now as to the frutes and workes of this chyrche she doth alonely fetche out hyr maner of lyuynge and all her good workes out of the holy word of god and she fayneth not nor dremyth any other newe holynesse or newe inuented workes that be not in scrypture but she is content with Chrystes lernynge and beleueth that Chryst hath suffiâ—iently taught hyr all maner of good workes that be to the honour of our heuenly father Therfore inuenteth she none other waye to heuen but foloweâ—h Chryste onely in sufâ—erynge oppressyons and persecucyons blasphemynges and all other thynges that may be sayde vnto hyâ— whyche as saynt Augustayne sayth she lerned of oure mayster Chryste Our holy mother the chyrche thorow out all the world scatered far and longe in hyr trew hed Cryste Iesus taught hath lerned not to fere the contumeâ—ys of the crosse nor yet of deth but more and more is she strengthed not in resystynge but in sufferynge More Here haue ye herde good reders a fayre tale wyth a proper ensample of the soule and then two tokens after by whyche ye maye knowe in whyche company there be some of the chyrche though ye can not know whych the persons be that be of the chyrche And in both these poyntes ye haue herde hys whole tale no worde in the waye lefte out nor one worde hath he not after for any forther profe but spendynge a lefe an halfe in raylyâ—ge vppon the clergye and seremonyes and sacramentes of the chyrch therewyth he â—ynyssheth and endeth all hys processe And therfore as touchyng the mater ye haue herde all his whole tale garnysshed and made fayre wyth the sample of the soule and the two tokens of the chyrche But now is thys tale fayre as longe as it is in tellynge and goth fayre and smothe by a mannes eare as the water goth ouer the goosys backe for ellys yf it tary styll tyll it weâ—e well to the skynne and be well felte and consydered then it leseth all y â— grace and wyll appere so folysshe y â— the reader wyll thynke that thys tale hath mo tokens then twayne to make hym knowe that the wryter had almoste no more wyt in his hed then one that had no soule in hys body I lette passe that he noteth in the mergyne these wordes how a man maye knowe the chyrch and then he telleth vs in hys texte not how a man maye knowe it nor any pyece of it but how a man may know in what place it is and yet not so myche neyther For he telleth vs not go to suche a place and there thou shalt fynde it or some membres of it but he byddeth vs go and telleth vs not whyther and sendeth vs to seke telleth vs not where but telleth vs onely by what token we shall knowe whyther in the place where we happen to seke there be any such person or no. But now lette vs suppose that he tolde vs the fyrst tale whyche were yet more to the purpose then the tale that he telleth vs now And yet bycause he maketh vs hys tale so playne by the sample of the soule let vs putte hym agayne for our parte some sample of some symple soule some good merchaunt that were fallen in company wyth frere Barns in the house of hys secret hostes at the sygne of the botell at Botolfes wharfe and fyndynge hym walkynge in a mertchauntes gowne wyth a redde Myllayne bonet and not knowyng that he were ronne out of relygyon but wenyng that he were an honeste man tolde hym that he were goyng toward Excester and for as mych as he muste cary money wyth hym he wolde fayne fynde some good company that were goynge thyther by whome he myghte be bothe conuayed the ryght waye also go the more sure For he hadde herde that there were in many innes many loyterynge felowes that were false shrewes yet semed as honeste as trew as he whych fals shrewes wold fayne them selfe to be merchauÌ„tes saye they were goynge thyderwarde to but when they were goteÌ„ in credence taken into coÌ„pany then vsed to lede men out of y â— way robbe them kyll them to Now yf frere Barns wold say to thys man ye be happy that ye haue met wyth me for I wyll sende you to an inne where ye shall be sure and neuer fayle to fynde some honest trew merchauntes that are thyderwarde and than wolde sende hym to a certayne place whyche he wolde name hym If thys merchaunt whan he
of that company they be as ye confesse I can not what sholde thys knowledge auayle me It may peraduenture hynder and hurte me For yf I dowted lest there were happely no suche trewe membres of the very chyrche in that company I wolde be the more ware of any thynge that they sholde teche me But now whyle though I know not who yet I wene my self that I know well some of them be trewe I maye percase the more boldely and wyth y â— lesse fere take that the false shall offer me for the hope I maye haue that I haue peraduenture by happe fortuned vppon that person that is one of the trewe For why to vse dylygence and forbere haste and be ware and byleue not tyll I surely fynde and know the trew that were by your wordes vtterly vayne For ye say I shall neuer know them nor neuer know farther but that there be some of them Now good readers what hath Barons holdyng his heresy of his vnknowen chyrche what hath he to say more to this woman In good fayth nothyng that wyll be worth a flye But the womaÌ„ may sone fynd more yet to say to hym For she may saye to hym ferther yet I remember me now father Batons a nother thyng ye wyll that I shall know y â— chyrch by the trew declaracyon of scripture But how shall I be sure whyche be the very bokes of scrypture For you say playnely that the pystle of saynt Iames is not holy scrypture and other men say yes And ye say that ye can proue that pystle false by wordes of saynt Poule and â—hen wâ—re ye lykele to make me to doute as well of saynt Poule as of saynt Iames. For why shold I better byleue the tone then the tother whyle they were both Crystes approued apostles For though ye saye that yt was of old douted by some folke whyther that pystle were wryten of saynte Iames or not yet after that doute moued the whole chyrche hath fermely byleued yt to be his without any doute of any man in a thousande yere to gether tyll wythin this .xx. yere And then as ye say now by that peyce so may there a nother come and saye by a nother peyce and so go aboute â—o proue euery peyce false by other where so euer any seme to say any thyng which the wordes of some other part semeth contrary And then when they shall iâ— this wyse coÌ„tende stryue theruppon where as ye say I shall by the trew construccyon of the scrypture perceyue where be some of the very trew chyrche how wyll ye fyrste make me know whych of theym all assygneth me the very trew scrypture To this when frere Barons wolde answere and falsely bere her in hande that the pystle of saynte Iames hath ben aâ—way douted of And that such bokes as haue ben alway by the whole chyrch taken and accepted for holy scrypture of those may she be sure that they be holy scrypture for god geueth his chyrche that gyfte that yt can trewely dyscerne the wordes of god from the wordes of man this wyll I wote well frere Barons saye For this sayth not onely hys olde mayster saynte Austayne oute of whose rule and relygyon frere Barons is ronne away but his new mayster also frere Luther after whom he ruÌ„neth out of relygyon and out of rule now But when Barns wolde answere her so then wold she sone brynge hym to the bay and tell hym that the chyrche by whyche she knoweth whych is the scrypture is not any vnknowen chyrch but the knowen catholyque chyrche of all crysten nacyons remaynyng in the comen well knowen fayth And then syth she may boldely byleue that chyrch in y â— gret point and lerneth that lessen of none other chyrch but that whyche is the fyrste lesson of all the fayth and wheruppon as frere Barons agreeth all the whole remanaunt dependeth syth that by hym there is nothynge any sure trewth but yf yt be wryten in scrypture she maye therfore wolde she saye take that chyrche for the teacher of all the remanauÌ„t and hym for a trew techer whose fayth agreeth wyth that chyrche and those folke whose fayth is coÌ„trary to that chyrche whych shall sone be knowen for they be forthwith accused and reproued vppon theyr false preachinges herd them she may and wyll take for the false teachers and false expowners of scrypture tyll father Barons can geue her better knoweledge of his holy trewe chyrche vnknowen wherof she is neuer the nere yet Lo thus myght a wyse woman that coulde no more but rede englyshe rebuke and confounde frere Barons vppon the syght of his owne ryall processe in whych he wold now teache vs to know whyche is the very chyrche How be yt to confounde hym we shall not greatly nede to seke one that can rede For what hath he to say to a pore woman that coulde not rede If his owne secrete hostesse the good wyfe of the botell of Botolphs warfe that but yf she be better amended halteth both in body and soule were in the congregacyon present at this coÌ„menyng and then wold hympe forth among them and say by saynt Malkyn father Barons all your tokens of the very trew chyrch wyll not stand mâ— in the stede of a tauern token nor of a mustarde token neyther For I may for the tone be sure of a new bakeÌ„ bune and for the tother I maye be sure of a pot of mustarde but for your two tokens of youre holy chyrche I can not be sure of one ferthyng worth of trew doctrine for them both For how shall I perceyue that any trew members of your holy chyrche in onely whom ye say is the trew fayth be present in coÌ„pany when your tokeÌ„s be the trew prechyng of scripture and the good leuyng after the scrypture how can I gete any good by those two tokeÌ„s when I can not rede at all what could frere Barons say to his hostesse here Surely nothynge hath he but sholde in the ende be fayne to fall to the desteny of goddes eleccyon and say as he sygnyfyeth and somwhat mutereth in his boke but then sholde he be fayne to speke yt out and say that when they come to the prechyng all those that are electe of god shall be secretely moued and taught inwardely and shall by the instyncte of the spyryt of god though they know not whether the person be good or no that preacheth perceyue yet the trewe worde of god vppon the herynge and shall vnderstande yt as Tyndale sayth that the egle perceyued her pray And the tother sorâ—e whome god hath not chosen though they heare yt shall not vnderstand yt but whether the preacher be good or badde they shall be neuer the better nor shall not dyscerne the trew preacher fro the false but be deceyued by the false and not perceyue the trew for any thynge that they can do And therfore euery man wyll Barons say that shall be saued shall
Tyndale sayd here trew of saynt Austayns mynde that he byleued the chyrche bycause they were then good men yet standeth that order styll that he fyrste byleued the catholyke knowen chyrche and fyrste knewe and knowleged and byleued it and then of it and by it receyued and knewe and knowleged and byleâ—ed the scripture to be the very word of god And so is Tindale styl ouerthrowen ye sayeth Tyndale that is trew but he was broughte into the bylyefe of the chyrche that then was by the good vertuouse leuynge that then was in yt as saynte Peter counsayled the crysten wynes wyth crysten lyuynge and vertuouse conuersacyon to wynne theyr vncristen husbandes vnto crystendome But yf we sayth Tyndale shulde not byleue tyll the lyuyâ—ge of the spyrytualty conuerte vs 〈◊〉 be lyke to abyde loâ—ge ynough â—n vnbylyefe well Suppose fyrste that Tyndale sayde trewe yet foloweth yt at the last y â— saynt Austayne was none of those holy electes those gaye golden egles that be taughte inwardely wythout any outwarde teachynge But now wolde I that Tyndale here rehersed vs what was the lyuynge and whyche were the vertuouse that so flowred in the chyrch that was in saynte Austayns tyme. Fyrst as for persecucyon that Tyndale speketh of y e catholyque chyrch had not in his tyme any greater persecucyon by heretykes in Affryke then yt hadde now these late yeres in Almayne and I wene as many good chrysteÌ„ men haue constantely suâ—â—red harme and as myche to in Saâ—oâ—ye and Suycherlande and some other partes of Germany by the Lutherane heretykes and the Huyskyns Swynglianes as there dyd in hys tyme in Affryque by the Donaâ—ystes Then as for the other vertues and maners that then were in the chyrche for whyche saynte Austayne dyd as Tyndale sayth byleue yt and wolde not yf he nowe lyued and were vncoÌ„uerted so receyue and byleue the scrypture by the chyrche now wolde god that Tyndale had rehersed those maners and those vertues that we myght therby perceyue whether saynte Austayne yf he were nowe alyue and suche as he was byfore hys conuersyon wolde not be conuertyd by the catholyke chyrche were lykely to to be conuerted by the conuersacyon of theyrs by the holy lyuynge of Luther and Lambert and Huskyn and suche a rable of wedded munkes and freres And yet yf he so were then muste yt be ye wote well a knowen chyrch For of an vnknowen chyrche could he not be moued nor take none authoryte and so were Tyndals chyrche of his vnknowen electes clere gone agayn for any fortherauns of saynte Austaynes fayth And therfore muste we then wyt of hym farther whyche of all his chyrches which of his false sciâ—matyke sectes were yt that sholde do thys dede and wynne vs in sâ—ynte Austayn that shuld be suche a trew doctour of trew y â— chyrch There is good reders a boke whyche saynte Austayne wryteth agaynste heretyques of his owne tyme that dyspraysed then the lyuyng of the crysten people of the catholyke chyrch extollyng the holy vertuouse lyuyng of theyr owne secte by whyche we may well se y e heretykes had yet at that day a right fayre visage of very vertuouse lyuyng and preached not theyr heresies with defence of open shamfull lechery as these bestely heretykes do nowe But saynt Austayne all be yt he coulde not say naye but that in the chyrche there were as well badde as good yet descrybeth he partely the vycyouse lyuynge and partely the ypocrysy to that was then amonge those hcretyques and bysydes that the vertuouse lyuynge that then was amonge many good folke of the catholyke chyrche And what vertues be those surely euen the same that the knowen catholike chyrch teacheth now and which vertues in this catholyke chyrch many a good man both spyrytuall and temporall yet vnto this daye god be thanked very well kepe and obserue howe be yt the fewer a great many syth these deuelyshe heresyes came vppe And this dare I well promyse Tyndale let hym rede ouer that boke when he wyll in whyche saynt Austayn reherseth the vertues y â— he prayseth in the chyrche when he hath well and perfytely redde yt onys ouer or yf he lyste hardely twyse or thryes yt can be no losse of his tyme and this I say wyll I gladly geue hym wyth yt let hym take myn yie for an apple yf he fynde yt in all the boke coÌ„mended for any great vertue a frere to wedde a nunne And therfore syth Tyndale alloweth saynte Austayne and the vertues that then were in the chyrch I wyll bynd hym to none other but that that he now prayseth and commendeth hym selfe Lette hym no more but byleue saynte Austayne and then shall he byleue the sacramentes and go to shryfte whych he now calleth the deuyls inuencyon and shall take absolucyon whyche he now calleth whystelynge and shall gladly do penaunce that he nowe calleth synne and shall byleue the knowen catholyke chyrche and knowlege yt for the chyrche of cryste and shall take theym all for heretykes that departe oute therof and shall byleue surely y â— determynacyon therof and take them all for heretykes that wyll holde the contrary and then wyll he shaue his crowne agayne and saye matens and masse after the olde fashyon and putte of his knaues cote and ware an honeste man and then he wyll aduyse frere Luther to lye no more wyth nunnes Hytherto good chrysten reder haue I so reasoned thys poynte of saynt Austaynes wordes as though Tyndales answere vnto them were trew And then yf they so were in dede yet what good effecte hath Tyndale therupon ye perceyue For though it so were in dede yet were Tyndale neuer the nere but alway wolde yt folowe as I haue shewed you that the very chyrche must nedes be a knowen chirch and neyther any chyrche of vâ—knowen heretykes nor any knowen chyrche of all these heretykes neyther nor fynally none other but onely thys comen knowen catholyque chyrche But nowe good reder for as myche as Tyndale sayth that the chyrche doth falsely take saynt Austayne and contrary to hys mynde euen in lyke maner as he sayeth they do all the scrypture to blynde and bygyle the people with we be very gladde he sayth so And as Tyndale hath here hym selfe put these wordes of saynte Austayne for ensample how the chyrche vseth yt selâ—e in thexposycyon of scrypture so shall we be very well content ye take yt and that by this one poynt ye may perceyue and iudge whyther the chyrche or Tyndale expowneth here saynt Austayne more trewly and therby iudge lykewyse as Tyndale here wold haue you both the chyrch and hym in the trew or the false expownynge of all the scrypture of god where eyther part sayth the tother expowneth wronge Now saye we then that where Tyndale sayeth that the cause why saynt Austayne dyd byleue the châ—rch was bycause they were then good men Tyndale doth but dyuyse that tale vppon his owne hed to seke some euasyon
storyes lyke as mayster Lyly late mayster of Poulys scole broughte vp in London the ryght order in techynge of grammer lernynge of the latyn tong Thys is good reders the thyng that thys good scoler of Tyndale by the counsayle of hys mayster answereth But nowe good readers we must tell hym agayne that hys ensample of grammer and the laten tonge is nothyng lyke the mater of fayth that he resembleth it vnto For the laten tonge was no thynge that euer our lorde promysed to preserue for euer and therfore it myghte by chauncys occasyons of batayle and warre perysshe and be loste and the countrees compelled to leue it and râ—ceyue some other language in the stede therof But as for y â— fayth can neuâ—r fayle no more then canne the catholyke chyrche agaynste whyche our sauyour hath hym selfe promysed that all the heretykes that rebelle agaynste it nor all the tyrauntes vppon erth that insourge and oppugne it whyche two sortes be the gates of hell shall neuer obtayne and preuayle nor in lyke wyse all the deuyls of hell that are wythin hell or walkynge in thys world and bysy aboute the gates of hell shall neuer be able to destroye the fayth which our sauyour hath in lyke wyse promysed agaynste the deuyll that went about to syfte it out of hys chyrche sholde be preserued aâ—d kepte by the meane of hys owne specyall prayour And therfore syth grammer in the laten tong is a thyng that may fayle the trewe fayth is a thynge by the spyrite of god accordynge to Crystes promyse perpetually taught vnto hys chyrche and therfore canne neuer fayle no not though all the bokes in the worlde sholde fayle therfore hys symylytude of graÌ„mer lykened vnto fayth is no more lyke then an apple to an oyster Now as touchynge any such olde autentyke storyes as he speketh of whyche he sayth the chyrche had broughte a slepe wherwyth he sayeth that Luther and Tyndale and Huyskyn and Suynglius confounde our lyes I wolde very fayne here some one story by whyche he proueth that fastynge and prayenge and almoyse dedes done in fayth hope and cheryte be noughte worth nor neuer shall haue rewarde in heuen By what olde story proueth he that folke shold not pray for theyr frendes soules By what old story wyll he shew vs that crysten women be prestes and were wonte to synge masse By what olde storye can he make yt good that in the blessed sacrament is neyther fleshe nor bloode but onely bare brede and wyne And by what olde stories new founden out can he now make vs knowe that freres or monkes professed were of olde wonte to wedde nunnes and well alowed and myche commended therin we be very sure that in all these poyntes except the last we shall fynde vnto these folke many olde autentyque storyes prouynge theyr heresyes false Howe be yt as for the laste in dede I fynde not as farre as I can remembre any olde storyes agaynste yt For I suppose veryly that vntyll frere Luther now beganne of late there neuer was wreche so bestely that euer durste for very shame atteÌ„pte any such incestuouse maryage byfore but yf yt were onely Iulianus apostata whyche fell forthwyth fro the fayth and became a false paynym and persecuted the crysten folke and Cryste quyt hym there after and shortely sente shamfull deth and the wonder of all the worlde vppon hym whyle the worde standeth Nowe come we then to the scrypture For therin they make as though they reygned we alledge sayth Tyndale 〈◊〉 vs the scrypture elder then any chyrche that was these .xiiii. yeres Fyrste when Tyndale here sayth we I wolde wytte of hym whyche we we Lutheranys or we Huyskyns or we anabaptystes or we Swynglianys or of whyche rable of all the remanaunt of those hundred sectes of whych neuer one agreeth wyth other nor neuer a man wyth his felow but eche of them layeth the scrypture as well agaynste all the remanaunte of the sectes as agaynste the catholyque chyrche Bysydes this where Tyndale saith that they alledge for theym the scrypture we saye that some thynges there are that god wyll haue byleued were of his worde was delyuered vnto his chyrche wythout wrytynge in his chyâ—ch wythout wrytynge preserued by the selfe same spyryte that endyghted the wrytynge And this do we proue by olde autentyke bokes of olde holy doctours and by the authoryte of the catholyque chyrche and by the manyfolde myracles that styll contynue in onely the same chyrche for the comprobacion of the doctryne of the same and besydes all this yet by playne scrypture to as I haue clerely proued vnto Tyndale in the laste chapyter of my thyrde boke And sor his purpose in that poynt he hath not one text of scripture but suche as he may be a shamed so farre agaynst the ryght sence of theym to brynge them forth in place And ouer this for his fynall confusyon in that poynte ye haue your selfe herde in my fourth boke that the perpetuall vyrgynyte of oure ladye he hath hym selfe confessed that who so euer here yt taughte muste byleue yt and yet is yt not proued by holy scrypture And therfore must he nedys geue ouer that false feble heresye whych he was wont to holde that we be bounden to byleue nothynge but yf yt be wryten as Luther sayth euydeÌ„tly writen in scrypture How be yt in this that he sayth he alledgeth scrypture he dothe but walke aboute in a maase For well ye wote good reders and so doth hym selfe to that betwene these heretykes and the chyrche the questyon is not for the more parte in the wordes of the scrypture but vppon the ryght sentence and vnderstandynge of the scripture Now do we lay therin agaynste theym the olde auncyent doctours whose exposycyons they coÌ„temne For both for the reward of good workes and for fastynge and for the blessed sacrament and for vowes of chastyte yf they wolde stande vnto the exposycyons of the olde holy doctours vppon the scrypture they can neuer auoyde yt but that the scryptures be clere for our parte agaynste them or ellys as I haue often sayde let Tyndale tell vs some one of so many sayntes as synnes the apostles tyme haue wryten vppon the scrypture byfore Luthers days that expowned the scrypture in such wyse that yt were by his exposycyon lawefull for a frere to wedde a nunne Therfore in conclusyon as concernynge the scrypture Fyrste sor suche poyntes as god hath taughte his chyrche wythout scrypture as the artycle of the perpetuall vyrgynyte of our lady Tyndale can not teache his dyscyple that they allegge the scrypture for in scripture yt is not spoken of If he wyll saye that they be at lybertye and not bounde to byleue yt hym selfe hath in that artycle confessed the coÌ„trary byfore as ye haue seen in my fourth boke And also in all such other lyke yf he byleue not y e chyrch he might as well not haue byleued saint Poule
bode hym walke lyke a traytour about hys treason so dyd put hym out as the catholyke chyrche of Criste putteth out suche heretykes and suche Iudases now And thus good chrysten readers here haue ye playnely sene that all the scryptures that frere Barons bryngeth make euyn playne agaynste hym and playnely proue the knowen catholyke chyrche to be the very â—hyrche of Cryst and in thys worlde none holy chyrche â—esyde Now good chrysten reders where as frere Barns alled geth vs dyuers places of saynt Austayne and some other doctours for thys purpose thoughe I lette theym passe by the waye and answere theym not forthwyth yet shall they not passe vnanswered ere we parte But for as mych as he laboreth wyth inâ—erlacynge of hys heresyes and hys raylynge to make such confusyon in the mater that men shold not by hys wyll well perceyue the poynte I shall therfore soyle you those allegacyons in suche conâ—enyent place as maye geue the mater moste lyght And fyrste ye shall consyder that he wyll nowe tell you where thys chyrche is that he assygneth of onely so pure clene persons wythout spotte or wryncle that saynt Peter maye fynde no faute wyth them Lo thus he sayth Barons Thys is the very trewe chyrche that is scatred thorow all the worlde and is neyther bounde to person by reason of dygnyte nor yet to any place by the reason of fayned holynesse but she is a fre thynge thorow all the worlde as S. Austayne doth wytnesse in these wordes The holy chyrche are we but I do not say we as one sholde say we that be here alone that here me nowe but as many as be here faythfull chrystened men in thys chyrche that is to saye in thys â—ytye as many as be in this regyon as many as be beyonde the see as many as be in all the hole whorlde for from the ryâ—ynge of the sonne tyll the goynge downe is the name of god praysed so is the holy chirche oâ—re mother c. Here haue you playnely that the holy chyrche is the congregacioÌ„ of faythfull men where so euer they be in the worlde And neyther the popâ— nor yet his cardynallys be more thys chyrche or of this chyrche than the poreste man in erthe for thys chyrche stondeth alonely in the spyrytuall fayth of Cryste Iesus and not in dygnytees ner honours of the worlde as Liâ—anus doth declare in these wordes The chyrche doth not stonde in men by reason of the spyrytuall power or secular dygnyte For many prynces and many popes and other inferyor persons haue sweruyd from the fayth Wherfoâ—e that chirche doth stonde in those persons in whome is the trewe knowledge and confessyon of fayth and of veryte c. O my lordes what wyll you say to Lira I haue great mervayle that you burne hym not It is hye tyme to condempne hym for an heretyke for he speketh agaynst your lawe .xxiiij. q. 1. Quodcumque Where as your glose declareth that god suffered not the rome chyrche for to erre and Lira sayth playne that many popes haue erred And also that the chyrche standeth not in dygnyte but in confessyon of Chryste and of hys blessed veryte More In all thys loâ—ge tale good readers frere Barns telleth vs no more but the chyrche is fre bycause hym selfe loueth lybertye and the chyrch is bounde to no man bycause hym selfe wolde be bouÌ„de to nâ— pryours nor the chyrch is bouÌ„de to no place bycause suche apostatas wolde be bounde to no cloyster but haue all the worlde to royle in Then sayth he by the authoryte of saynt Austayne that the chyrche is not the chrysten people of any one countrey alone and who sayd it was Then he sheweth that Liranus sayth the chyrche standeth not in spyrytuall power or secular dygnyte but in confessyon of Cryste and hys blessed veryte and no man fyndeth fawte wyth Lyre for so sayenge but we fynde fawte wyth frere Barons for teachynge false heresyes in stede of Chrystes blessed veryte Now in tellyng vs where the chyrche is he telleth vs it is in the worlde and trewth it is the very chyrche is in the world but he proueth vs not yet that hys owne chyrche is in the worlde for he proueth no suche chyrche at all For consyder good readers that yet for hys purpose is there neuer one worde broughte oute For yet hathe he brought vs no profe of any chyrche here in erthe wherof the people lyuynge here in erthe and beynge the membres and partes therof be so pure and so clene without spotte or wryncle that saynt Peter may fynde no fawte wyth them For thys poynt hath he yet brought vs no profe but of all that he hath yet brought parte proueth nothynge for hym and the more parte proueth clere agaynste hym And now shall ye se by hys owne wordes folowynge that as gaye a face as he made before wyth the scrypturs that he brought forth yet hym self perceyued all the whyle well inough that all that he hath hytherto sayed proueth in that poynte wheruppon all dependeth no thynge at all for hys purpose For lo now thus goth he forward and fyndeth that fawte wyth hym false Barons But now here wylbe obiected that I fayne suche a chyrche as our Logicyens do intentionem secundam that is a thynge that is no where where shall a man fynd a chirch that iâ— so pure and so clene that hath neyther spotte nor wrynkle in her and that is without all synne seynge that all men must of trueth saye forgyue vs our trespas And yf any man saye be he neuer so ryghtuouse that he hath no synne than is he a lyar and there is no veryte in hym More Lo good readers here maye ye clerely se that hym selfe perceyueth all that he hath sayed hytherto able to serue of nought but that for all the scryptures that he hath layed to proue that there is suche a chyrche and for all the wordes of saynt Austayne by whych he wold haue semed both to proue that there is such a fayre pure chyrch and a clene and also that saynt Austayne telleth vs where it is that is to wytte not all in any one place but spredde abrode in all places of the world where faythfull people are enhabyted yet for all thys frere Barns here coÌ„fesseth now that all this serueth of no thynge but hys purpose that there is in erthe any suche chyrche remayneth styll so farforth vnproued that he seeth well hym selfe that men may yet obiecte vnto hym that there is no suche pure and clene chyrche in erthe but that for any thyng that he hath brought forth to proue itâ— he semeth of hys owne brayne to fayne it as logiciens fayne sayth he the secunde intencyon whyche is he sayth no where And therfore good reders cuttynge of now for nowght all that he hath sayd before as he taketh it for nought hym selfe lette vs se what he wyll now saye better vppon thys better auysement For
and bere nor to recouer and gete agayne the money that he spent about hys prentynge of hys booke and hys comynge hyther and goynge ouer agayne wherfore syth he maye not saufely tary here but muste excepte he wolde be burned go gete hym ouer agayne both that good syster and all the holy congregacyoÌ„ and hym selfe also whyche is as sory to parte from theym as they from hym muste conforme theyr wylles on all sydes vnto the wyll of good and as for the absence bodyly he wold recompense vppon hys part wyth beynge myndefull of them in hys prayour to the lorde and trusted they wolde in lyke wyse do and so wolde he praye theym to do praye to the lorde for hym so sholde eyther parte by theyr prayeng eche for other accordyng to the counsayle of saynt Iamys myche more eche profyt other then yf our lady all the sayntes in hâ—uyn yf there be any there wolde praye for them bothe bycause the sayntes be all departed hense dede and be no lenger of our funccyon And yet wolde he for hys parte to theyr ferther consolacyon make and sende them ouer some new bokes of the euangelycall doctryne in theyr mother tonge for the better edyfyenge of theyr sely symple soules And thys wolde he saye for the comforte of the hole fraternyte and sororyte in generall And then for answere to y e good syster in specyall he wold peraduenture aduyse her to take the new testament of Tyndales translacyon and other bokes of his and of his owne and of George Iouy and therin sholde she fynde the trouth wherunto yf she sayde that she might not for fere of her husbandes losse and her own parell aduenture to kepe these bokes bycause of the kynges proclamacyon he wolde tell her and persuade her playnely that the bokes of the scrypture she must nedes kepe spyght of all the prynces proclamacion to dye therfore For that he wryteth playnely all redy but as for y e tother bokes he layeth not expressely so sore a charge vppon them wherfore he wold enioyne her at the lest wise to kepe the scrypture in englysh and tell her that therin she sholde lerne all trouh But then is yt lykely that she myght say that the scrypture is hard for her to vnderstaÌ„d therfore shew him y t the thyng whyche she desyreth of hym is to know of hym syth hym self goth away how she myght be sure to haue a good trew teacher that myght in euery necessarye poynte of bylyefe expowne the scrypture and teache yt her trewly Then wolde he peraduenture assygne her some specyall spedde man in the sectes and tell her she may lerne of hym But then were she lykely to say that he myght happely be dreuen awaye for fere of persecucyon ye or peraduenture dye byfore she shold be fully lerned and instructed in the necessarye trouthes by the scrypture whyche she coulde not thynke her selfe to be tyll she dyd in euery suche trouth vnderstande all the places of scryptures that eyther made for yt or semed to saye agaynste And therfore wolde she fayne know nowe of hym by what meane she myghte alwaye be sure of a trew teacher Then wolde he peraduenture tell her that who so euer preache truely the worde of god accordynge to that scrypture â— she myght be sure that he were a trew preacher and of hym she myght surely lerne But vnto that she were lykely to say Father Barons This same scrypture is very hard and in the moste necessary poyntes dyuerse preachers expowne yt diuersly some for the sacramentes some agaynste theym some for the vowe of chastyte and some agaynste yt some for good workes and some for fayth alone some for purgatorye some agaynste yt and so in suche other thynges so that excepte I may be sure of the trew teacher vnto whose credence I may truste in the construccyon I shall alway remayn styll in lyke doute and not vnderstande the scrypture And therfore shall I not be able by the scrypture to trye the trew prechour but must by y e knowledge of the trew preachour trye whyche is the vnderstandynge of the scrypture And therfore I wolde haue the trew preachour to teache me truely to vnderstande the same scrypture And for that intente wold I know hym to th end that I myght by that I know hym for a trew preacher be sure that by his teachyng I do not damnably mysse vnderstand the scrypture but am truely taught yt And now you tell me that who so teche the scripture trewly is a teacher And then muste I by this tale of yours brynge wyth me to hym or ellys I can not knowe hym the thyng y t I can not gete but yf I know hym fyrst what were frere Barns here lykely to say to this womaÌ„ that myghte resonably satysfye her In good fayth I can not say takyng an vnknowen chyrch as he doth For yf he wolde saye good doughter the goodnes of god shall euer suffycyently prouyde you a trewe teacher as he prouyded saynte Peter for Centurio she myght tell hym that Centurio was warned by god that he was a trew precher and yf I hadde suche warnynge of any that shall come then were I satysfyed If Frere Baroâ—s wolde saye when so euer the trewe preacher commeth ye shall knowe hym and perceyue hys doctryne to be trewe by the inwarde vnccyon of the holy goste that shall teache you inwardly as sayth saynt IohnÌ„ for as our lorde sayeth They that are myne heare my voyce and heare not the voyce of a strauÌ„ger and I knowe myne and myne knowe me and of this hauâ— we a sample of Ennuchus whyche as he was redynge in the scrypture and coulde not vnderstande yt by hym selfe god prouâ—ded that saynte Philyppe shold go by hym and teche hym and a non Ennuchus byleued hym and was crystened howe dyd Enuchus knowe that Philyppe was a trew preacher but by the inwarde vnccyon and inspyracyon of god and so good syster shall you be moued inwardely to perceyue the trew scrypture surely me thynketh that vnto this the woman were well lykely to hym that one ensample at one tyme of one maÌ„nys dede as Enuchus was geueth vs not for euery man in euery time a generall rule For though he were therin not deceyued then yet some other that wold so redly now take for y e trew preachour euery man y t cam fyrst to hand myght be sore deceyued therin and wene that god gaue hym the mocyon when yt came of the suggestyon of his enymy For at that tyme yt was vell lykely that Enuchus hadde herd of Cryste and of his lyuynge and of his myracles and of his deth and of his resurreccyon to lyfe and such thynges as were then done and passed byfore the metynge hadde betwene saynt Philyp and hym And then was that prophecye wyth dyuerse other whych Phylyppe there expowned vnto hym so playne and open with his doctryne his deth his
nothynge for hym but also pâ—oue clere agaynste hym And all his places of the doctours of the chyrch that he bringeth in for the proue of that purpose I haue purposely differred bycause I wold answere theÌ„ to gether laste at all For syth he taketh in y e poynt another way then Tyndale doth or Fryth or lightly any other heretike of theÌ„ all in layenge forth for his part holy doctours of y e chyrch to make it seme that the olde holy sayntes say for hys parte I haue thought yt therfore good to examyne them orderly eche after other wherby ye shall shortely perceyue that the wordis of those holy doctours do no more proue his purpose then do the textes that he brought of the scryptures whyche as I haue proued you clerely proue agaynst hym His fyrste authoryte be these wordes of sayntt Austayn in his fyftieth sermone made vpon the wordes of our lord sayenge Of Cryste is y â— chyrch made fayre Fyrste was she fylthy in synnes afterward by pardon grace made fayre Uppon these wordes saynt Austayne none other meaneth but that all the beauty of any that is in the chyrche and in any man of the chyrche coÌ„meth of god and that euery man that is of the chyrche was borne in synne and that all they whyche fro the Iewes or Gentyles turned to god and cam to the chyrche hadde byfore lyued in synne and were therfore fylthy tyll by the sacrament of baptysme at theyr entre into the chyrche they were purged clensed fro theyr synne by the grace and pardon of god and the sacrament of baptysme and after when they be defoyled agayne by synne they be agayne clensed purged and made fayre by grace and perdon of god and the sacrament of penauÌ„ce and other holy sacramentes takynge theyr effecte strength and vertue of Crystes passyon But he fyndeth not in all that sermon any worde wherin saynt Austayne sayth that who so euer is onys clensed and made fayre ys neuer after foule nor that as sone as he is by any dedely synne foule he is by and by no parte of holy chyrche For holy chyrche is not called holy because euery peyce therof is holy otherwyse then the holynesse but bycause of that holynesse that is in yt besyde of theyr professyon nor is not called fayre bycause euery parte is fayre but bycause of such fayrenes as is in it besyde as there may be some weke parte in a strong bodye and some sore part â—n a hole body ye some dede parte in a quicke body some foule part in a fayre body some whit parte in a blakke body in a good coÌ„pany some naughtye folke And in such maner spake our sauyoure to his apostles where he sayd you be clene not y t they were al clene for he forth wyth added vnto yt but ye be not all clene meanynge by Iudas the traytoure that was one of them and though he was a traytour in his herte was yet a foule vnholy member of that fayre holy chyrche Lyke as yf a good kynge had in his chekker roule attendyng dayly vppon hym in his housholde dyuerse many false traytours that went about secretly to betraye hym all the whyle they be suffered there tyll they be taken for ther treason and put out they be styll of the courte and of the kynges houshold And the houshold all be yt that some wyll say there was a shrewed housholde bycause yt had suche shrewes in yt yet was yt for all that a good housholde bycause yt had good besyde Aud lykewyse as in the whole world the varyete of good partes bad geueth a beauty to y e whole so in the chyrche of Cryste hym selfe seeth how the foule partes do sette oute the fayre rather bewtyfye then blemmyshe the goodlynes of the whole And though the chyrche be of some foulke called fowle for those persons that are by dedely synne fowle therin as the euangelyste sayde that the dyscyples murmured at the losse of the oyntement wherat none of them murmured but one so is she fayre for all that in dede by the fayrenesse that is in her bothe by reason of Chryst her gloryouse hed and of many other fayre membres that are euer in her and by reason of the goodly composycyon and cuÌ„ly temperature of the whole body For whyche cause the chyrche maye well saye of it selfe the wordes that she speketh in the cantycles I am blackeâ— but yet am I bewtyfull ye and though there be mo fowle thaÌ„ fayre therin by reason wherof after the comon vse it myghte be called fowle and not fayre as a man of Inde is called blacke for all hys whyte tethe yet is it otherwyse here for the tother special causes The tone for that be it neuer so vnholy in lyuynge it is called holy for that it hath holy professyon wherby it is dedycated vnto Chryst. The secundeâ— that there is in thys world none holy that goth to any other chyrche out of it or that wyll not be of it The thyrde cause is for that the holynesse that is in it be there neuer so few holy therin is farre fayrer and holyer and more plesaunt in the syght of god than the fowlenesse and vnholynesse of all that are fowle vnholy therin specyally for the bewtye and holynesse of the very cheyfe pryncypall hed therof our sauyour Cryst hym self And therfore as I saye these wordes of saynt Austayne menyng none other wyse by them thaÌ„ saynt Austayn ment in them make no thynge in thys worlde for frere Barons chyrch that is as he sayth so fayre that it hath neyther spot therin nor wryncle for that sayth not saynt Austayne And therfore thys place of saynte Austayne no thynge helpeth hym but by other places of saynt Austayne whych I shall brynge you forth after ye shall se the mynde of saynte Austayne so playnely declared in thys poynt agaynste frere Barns y t frere Barns shall be as wery of saynte Austayns wordes as euer he was wery of saynte Austayns wurkes for werynes wherof he ronne out of saynte Austayns rule But fyrste shall I peruse those other places of saynt Austayne whych frere Barns bryngeth in hym selfe The next place of saynt Austayne that he bryngeth in is thys Barons The holy chyrche are we but I do not saye we as one sholde saye we that â—e here alonely that heare me now but as many as be here faythfull chrystened men in thys chyrche that is to saye in this citye as many as be in thys regyon as many as be beyonde the see as many as be in all the whole worlde for frâ—m the â—ysynge of the sonne tyll the goynge downe is the name of god prayseâ— so is the holy chyrche our mother More Now good readers thys texte of saynt Austayne hath frere Barns alledged to be in his sermone .99 that he made de tâ—mpore in whyche sermon I fynde it not And leste there
myghte haue ben some ouersyghte eyther in hym self or in the prenter by mysse wrytynge or by mysse prentyng those fygurs of algorysme bycause the fygure of .9 the fygure of .6 be all in maner one yf they be contrary turned I assayed them therfore euery way and sought red ouer not onely .99 sermon whyche he assygneth but also .96.69 and 66 and I fynde his texte in none of all those places and thaÌ„ to go seke tohse wordes thorowout all saynt Austayns wurkes were a great longe besynesse For surely it semeth that the man hath alledged hys texte in a wronge place of purpose bycause he wolde not haue it founden for some thynge that hym self seeth of lykelyhed in the same sermon that wolde marre all hys mater wherfore tyll it happen me to fynde the place by chaunce in redynge of saynte Austayns wurkes we wyll take the wordes onely whych hym selfe reherseth than proue they no pyece of hys purpose agaynst the knowen catholyke chyrche For saynt Austayn doth in those wordes no thyng ellys but shew y t the chyrch is not restrayned vnto any one couÌ„tre as those heretykes held whyche were called the Donatystes whyche sayde the very chyrche was onely in Affryque was by god prouyded to rest there sprede no ferther abrode for the defence of theyr frantyke heresye dyd as frere Barns these other heretykes do now bryng forth certayn wordes of scripture coÌ„strewed after theyr owne folysh fantasye But saynt Austayne as I say sheweth in those wordes that the chyrch is the catholyke chyrch y t is to say the vniuersall multytude of all trew chrysteÌ„ people all faythfull chrysten nacyons where so euer they be thorow the worlde Now good reder what maketh thys for frere Barons purpose in profe of hys vnknowen chyrche agaynste the kâ—owen catholyque chyrche well he woteth hym selâ—e that the knowen catholyke chyrch doth not say y t the chirch is nor can be but iÌ„ one cuÌ„trey but he well knoweth that by the knowen catholyke chyrche that false heresye of the Donatystes is as fully coÌ„dempned as are these other false heresyes of hys yes sayth Barns for here ye maye se lo y t neyther pope nor cardynall be no more of thys chyrche than the poreste man in erth why who sayed hym euer naye therof But what is that to the purpose for as a pore man is as well of the chyrche as is the pope so is a cordener as well an englysshe man or a frenche man as is the kynge of eyther other cuntre But yet lyke as reason wyl not agre that the cordener in hys cuntre bere as myche rule as the kynge so wyll it not agre wyth reason that euery man in the chyrche bere as mych rule as the pope whom frere Barons dothe hym self here in this same processe of the chirch knowledge and confesse for Chrystes vicar in the chyrche And therfore it is all besyde the purpose that he runneth forth styll in thys purpose and alledgeth these wordes of Lyranus The chyrche doth not stande in men by the reason of spyryt all power or secular dygnyte for many prynces and many popys and other inferior persons haue swarued fro the fayth wherfore that chyrche doth stanâ—e in thâ—se persons in whom is the trewe knowledge and confessyâ—n of fayth and veryte These wordes of Lyre hath Barns alledged to be wryten in his exposycyoÌ„ vpoÌ„ y e .xix. chapiter of saynt Mathew But I haue loked ouer Lyre vppon all that chapyter and there fynde I no suche sayenge And therfore of lykelyhed Barns playeth here wyth Lyre as he playeth wyth saynte Austayn in the place that he alledged before that is to wyt alledgeth it in a wronge place bycause he wolde not haue it founde for fere of some thynge that wolde appere vppon the place redde and consydered But vppon these wordes of Lyre he maketh a greate exclamacyon and cryeth out Oh my lordes what wylâ— ye say to Lyrâ— I haue great meruayle that you burne hym not It is hyghe tyme to condemâ—ne hym for an heretyke For he speketh agaynste your law 24. Qâ—ua sâ—â—nâ— prima Quodcunque where as your glose declareth that god suffereth not the Rome câ—iâ—che to erre and Lyra sayth playne that many popys haue erreâ— and aâ—so that the chirch staÌ„deth not in dygnite but in coÌ„sessyoÌ„ of Cryst oâ— his blesâ—ed verite Barns wold here seme lo to haue foundeÌ„ a great thyng in Lyre his worde But in good fayth I fynde nothynge here in Barons owne wordes but hys owne dowble foly Fyrste he sayeth Lyre condempneth the lawe and than he sheweth that he speketh not agaynste the lawe but agaynst a glose Is nâ—t that worde wysely proued Then se yet how wysely he proueth that Lyre reproueth the glose he sayth that y e glose sayth that god suffereth not the chyrche of Rome to erre and Lyre sayeth playne that many popes haue erred And what than Lyre â—ayth not y t the chyrch of Rome hath erred nor Lyre sayth not that the pope of Rome is the whole chyrche of Rome no more than the bysshoppe of London is the whole chyrche of London or the archebysshoppe of Canterbery the whole chyrche of the prouynce Now where Lyra sayth that the chyrche standeth not in the dygnyte but in the confessyon of Cryste and hys blessed veryte what sayth he other then all the hole catholyke chyrche agreeth not onely the good folke but the noughty to as many as any wytte haue to perceyue the thing Lyke as a cytye and a realme standeth not so mych by the dygnytye of the rulers as it standeth by wysdome good order true dealynge and iustyce But yet as these thynges wold fayle in a cytye and in a realmâ— yf there were no rulers to se them kepte ye and the rulers beynge of a ryghte seconde sorte yet wolde the people be myche worse yf they were all wythout And the people is therfore bouÌ„den to obay them and not euery lewde felow to ieste and rayle vppon them so is it in the whole chyrche also And therfore no man fyndeth any fawte wyth Lyra neyther to burne hym nor to be angry wyth hym but euery good man hathe good cause bothe to be angry and to burne vppe to suche pestylent sedycyouse persons as not onely by iestynge raylynge and bylinge all those that are in dygnyte prouoke to rebellyon the people that sholde obaye them but also vnder pretexte of techynge the trewe fayth laboure to destroye the trewe fayth and infecte good chrysten peple wyth false poysened heresyes And amonge all those one of the very wurst sort and wheruppon all the remanaunt are in a maner byelded wolde vnder colour of berynge fauour to the good vertuouse people that are in the chyrche make men byleue that the whole chyrche wherof those good men be part were not the chyrche in dede bycause they wolde haue it vnknowen that men myghte haue no suretye of any trewe doctryne
than maye they bothe be sure that they maye boldely breke both theyr vowes and wedde theym selfe to gyther And therhy shall they fele by theyr flesshely felyng fayth that they two be two specyall electes predestynate by god byfore the worlde was wrought to go to gether in this world and brynge forth holy frute to serue the deuyll at hys dyner what wolde the generall counsayle of the whole chyrch haue sayd vnto that frere and what vnto flekke hys make and what vnto that deuelyâ—h doctryne There wold saynt Gregory haue vsed those wordes that he wryteth of Ananyas and Saphyra sayenge Ananias vowed hys money vnto god whyche money afterwarde he beynge ouercome by the perswasyon of the deuyll kepte backe ye know with what maner deth he was ponysshed wherfore syth he was deth worthy that wythdrewe from god the money whyche hym selfe had gyuen to god coÌ„syder how greate ieopardy thou shalt be worthy at the dyuyne iudgement that wythdrawest not money but thy selfe from almyghty god vnto whom thou hast vowed thy self vnder a relygyous habyte And I dare boldely say that all that whole generall couÌ„sayle of all the whole catholike chyrch of all faythfull folke wyth all the secrete vnfaythfull folke y â— than were lurkynge in it â—â—d all the faythlesse heretykes that were at that tyme gone from it or accursed out of it excepte the frere and hys nonne and hys few folysshe adherentes wolde wyth one voyce with mandamus mandamus precipimus precipipimus excoÌ„municamus excoÌ„municamus haue condempned that abomynable heresye to the very deuyll of hell And I am sure that so wolde it haue ben yf any man durste there haue holden any one of many other heresyes that these felowes holde now Than what myghte Luther and Barns haue sayed to that generall counsayle For that were the counsayle that coulde â—ot erre For there were the whole catholyke chyrch in whyche nomber weâ—e bothe the chyrch of all electe repentaunt synners that Tyndale deuyseth and the chyrche of all faythfull people that Barâ—s deuyseth sauyng for lacke of all spottes and wryncles for that laâ—keth no man in this worlde How be it yf there were at that tyme any suche as Barns sayth there must nedes be than in that counsayle they muste nedes be For therto haue we brought all both the good and the badde How yf frere Barns frere Luther and wyllyam Tindale wolde than haue sayed that the very chyrche dyd not condempne them for the very chyrche was not that greate multytude that there condempned them of heresye but the very chyrche was them selfe that there were condempned and persecuted for the truth and such other good faythfull folke as were vnknowen amonge that company and secretely agreed wyth them in faythe that no vowe of chastyte shold let them but that freres and nonnes myght lawfully wedde whan they lyste To thys wold saynt Gregory sone haue answered sayd syrs they y t are y e good faythfull folke that ye speke of whych onely folke for fayth and goodnesse ye call the chyrch can not be dyssemblers of theyr fayth but professours of theyr fayth But now excepte your selfe all thys people condempne your fayth for heresye wherfore it appereth that eyther they be good men and saye as they thynke and than be you condempned by good men or els yf they saye as they thynke and the thyng that they thynke is nought than are they euyll men and than are they not your secrete chyrche of good men Or ellys they saye one thynge and thynke the contrary and than are they euyll men also and so none of your secrete chyrche of good men they neyther Or fynally they saye trewe and be euyâ—â— folke for other synnys and than be they yet none of your secrete chyrche of good men and also do ryghtfully condempne you in that they saye trewe And therfore eyther we that here excommunycate you frome vs de the very chyrche or some parte of vs is the chyrche and whyther of the two so euer it be ye be than condeÌ„pned by the whole chyrch which ye confesse can not erre or ellys is there none other shyâ—â—e but sith ye haue here no mo felowes ye must nedes afferme that ye your owne selfe be the very chyrche and no mo persons but your selfe To thys must it nedes haue comen ye se well good readers there were none other remedy And whaÌ„ it were onys comen vnto that than were it no dowte but that Luther Barns Tyndale wolde not haue letted to say Mary we with Luthers wyfe â—he nonne be the whole chyrche For we haue the ryght faith ye be all in the wronge For we haue the scrypturs for vs by whyche we wyll proue the vowe of chastyte vnlawfull our weddynge lawfull and so forth in suche other artycles as farre out of colour as that And syth the scrypture is on our parte we be the very chyrche Saynte Gregory wolde haue lacked none answere to this but wold haue sayed whan all we thynke that ye vnderstande the scrypture wronge and not onely we but all lerned men before vs hytherto why sholde we byleue that you few se ferther in the scrypturre than all they to whome it belongeth as well as to you fewe whyche haue studyed it as well as you and haue had both as mych wytte as you and also â—yche more grace than you as appereth well by the wrytynges of holy doctours sayâ—tes that consâ—rewed the scrypture agaynste your heresyes before all our dayes If Barons wolde then haue sayde as sayth here whyther you that are this counsayle that here coÌ„dempne vs be the very chyrche or no et muste be tryed by the scripture for that is the thynge by which we must know the very chyrch whych may be proued by the wordes of saynt Chrysostome whyche be these Barns They that â—e in Iudea lette them fle vp in to the mountaynes that is to saye they that be in chrystendome lette theym gyue them selfe to scryptures â—herfore commaundeth he that all chrystened men in that tyme shulde flye vnto scrypturs For in that tyme in the whyche heresies â—aâ—e optayned in to the chyrch there can be no trewe probacyon of chrystendome nor no nother refuge vnto chrysten men wyllynge to knowe the â—eryte of fayth but the scrypturs of god Afâ—re by many wayes was it sâ—â—weâ— which was the chyrche of Cryste and whiche was the congregacyon of gentyles But now there is none other waye to knowe vnto them that wyll knowe whiche is the very trew chyrche of Chryste but alonely by scryptures By workes fyrste was the chyrche of Cryst knowen whan the conuersacyon of chrysten men other of all or of many were hâ—ly the whiche holines had not the wycked men but now chrysten men be as euyll or worse than heretykes or gentylys ye and greâ—ter coÌ„tinâ—nâ—ye is â—â—unde amonge them than amonge chrysten men Wherfore â—e that wyll knowe whiche is the very chyrch of Cryste
how shall he know but by scripturs onely Wherfore our lorde consyderynge that so great confusyâ—n of thynges shulde come in the latter dayes therfore commâ—undeth he that chrysten men whyche be in chrystendome wyllynge to reserue the stedfastnesâ—e of trewe fayth shulde flye vnto none other thynge but vnto scryptures for yf they haue râ—specte vnto other thynges they shall be slaundered and shall peryshe not vnderstandynge whyche is the trewe chyrche c. These wordes nede no exposycion they be playne inough they do also exclude all maner of lernynge sauyâ—ge hâ—ly scrypture wherfore se how you can wyth honesty saue your holy lawes and defende them agaynst Chrysostome More ouer yf Chrysostome complayne of the incontynency that was in his dayes how wold he complayâ—e yf he now lyued and sawe the boudry and fornycacyon that is in the chyrch Also he sendeth meÌ„ to scriptures thâ—t will know the holy chyrch and not vnto the holy chyrch for in the chyrch were heresyes but not in scrypture Also saynt Paule wytnesseth the same sayenge you are bylte vppon the foâ—Ì„dacyon of the aposâ—les and prophetes here haue you playnely that the very trew chyrche is grounded ye and â—ounded of holy scrypture and therfore where so euer that the worde of god is preched that is a good token that there be some men of Christes chyrche But now as to the frutes and workes of this chyrche she dothe alonely fetche out her maner of lyuynge and all her good workes out of the holy worde of god â—nd she fayneth not noâ— dremeth any other new holynesse or neâ—e inâ—ented workes that be not in scrypture â—ut she is â—â—â—â—â—nt wyth Chrystes lernynge and byleueth that Chryst hath sâ—fâ—ycyently taught her all maner of good workes that be to the honâ—uâ— of our heuenly father Therfore inuenteth she none â—ther waye to heuen but foloweth Chryste onely in sâ—fâ—erynge oppressyâ—â—s and persecucyoÌ„s blasphemynges and all other thynges thâ—t may be layed vnto hyâ— wâ—yche as saynt Aâ—stayne sayth she leâ—ned â—f oâ—r maysâ—er Crysâ— Our holy motâ—â—r â—he chyrche thorow â—ut all the worlde scatered 〈◊〉 and longe in her trâ—w â—â—ade Chryste Iesus tâ—ught hath leâ—ned not to â—ere the conâ—umelys of the crosse nor yet â—f dâ—th but more and more ys she strengthed not in resystynge but in sufferynge Now my lordes compare your selfe to thys rule of saynt Austryne and let vs se how you can â—rynge your selfe into the chyrche orâ—â—es to proue yourself to be holy The chyrche sâ—fâ—erth persecucyons for as saynte Paule sayth they that wyll lyue deuoutly in Chryste muste suffer persecucyon and you wythstande all thynges and suffer nothynge you oppresse euery man and you wyll be oppressed of no man you persecute euery man and no man may speke a word â—gaynst you no though yt be neuer so trâ—we you caste euery man in pryson and no man may touche you but he shall be cursed you compell euery man to say as you saye and you wyll not onys say as Cryst sayth and as for your holynes all the world knoweth what yt is for yt standeth in clothynge and in deâ—kynge in watchyng and slepynge in eatynge and in drynkynge this meate or that meaâ—e this drynke or that drynke in patteryâ—g and mumblyng these psalmis or that psasmis with out deuocyon Breuely all your holynes is in hokes belles candelles chalyces oyse creame water horses houndes pallycis and all that is myghty and gloryouse in the worlde there on hange you there in glorye you there on crake you there on â—oste you theruppon byelde you Is thys the natures of the chyrche ys this holynes of â—home haue you lerned this maners More If frere Barns hadde alledged all this in that generall counsayle saynt Gregory coulde not haue tolde hym that as touchynge saynte Poule he spâ—ke not in that place precysely of the scrypture as though he wolde haue sayd that â—he crysten people were edyfyed and byelded onely vppon the wrytynges that the prophetes and apostles hadde wryten For many thynges haue made and yet make vnto the edyfycacion of Cristen people that were by the apostles delyuered wythout wrytynge as is playne by other wordes of saynte Poule hym selfe where he byddeth the Thessalonyans kepe the tradycyons whyche ye haue lerned â—yther by preachynge or by our pystle And in many places edyfyed he myche peple where we fynde not that he gaue them any writyng at all And the Ephesians them selfe to whom in those wordes he writeth that they were edyfyed and byelded vppon the foundacyon of the apostles and prophetes what prophetes wrytynges that they hadde then redde I can not tell but as for wrytynges of apostles or euangelystes yt is well lykely that they hadde yet at that tyme redde neuer one And saynte Gregory wolde peraduenture haue meruayled yf saynte Poule wolde haue sayde as frere Barons bereth vs in hande he sayd that crystendome were onely byelded vppon the apostles and prophetes for yt is moste specyally byelded vppon our sauyoure hym selfe and so myghte saynte Poule in those wordes very well and properly meane sayeng ye be byelded vppon the foundacyon of the apostles and prophetes that is to say ye be byelded vppon the same foundacyon that they be byelded on that is to wyt Cryste that is and was the very foundacyon as well of them as of you though they were layed on byfore and you after yet the very foundacyon vppon whyche ye be byelded and they bothe is that corner stone that is layed in the hed of the angle that ioyneth both the sydes in one And this exposycyon of saynt Poules wordes to the Ephesyans wyll well agree wyth his other wordes writen vnto the CorynthiaÌ„s where he sayth no man can laye any other foundacyon then that that is all redy layed that is to wyt Iesus Cryste hym selfe â— where as frâ—re Barons so taketh saynt Poules wordes there vnto the EphesyaÌ„s as though saynte Poule had sayde vnto them The foundacyon that ye be byelded vppon is the wrytynge that the prophetes the apostles haue wryten for your edyfycacyon and therfore must you se that you byleue nothyng nor do nothyng but suche as you fynd wryten in the wrytynges of the prophetes and the apostles then yf they had neuer a boke wryten of the apostles that were at that tyme comeÌ„ to theyr handes as yt was lykely there was not howe wold then those wordes frame And also yf he ment but so then toke he away the authoryte from all the scrypture besyde except onely the writyng of the apostles and prophetes and from all that hym selfe tolde them bysyde by mouth But yet yf frere Barons wolde there haue sayde vnto saynte Gregory all those wordes wyth whyche in his boke here he rayleth on by and by agaynste the thynges vsed in the knowen catholyque chyrch belles bokes candelles vestymentes chalyces holy crysme oyle and holy water and watchyng forberynge fleshe drynkynge of water fastyng and prayenge which Barns calleth paterynge muÌ„blyng of
that syth saynt Chrysostom sendeth vs to the scrypture to know therby whych of all those dyuers chyrches beyng to gyther all at one tyme is y e very chirch he meneth y ◠by the scrypture y e same chyrche may be knowen wherof it foloweth agayn agaynste frere Barns that the selfe same wordes by whych he wold proue vs that the chyrch can not be knowen do playnely confounde frere Barns and saye that the chyrche may be knowen And saynt Gregory could I wote well haue gyuen him tokens inough open playne euydent wryten in the playn scrypture of whyche I haue my selfe shewed some all redy and mo shall I in the laste boke of thys worke by whyche euery man may playnely perceyue that this knowen catholyke chyrche is the very trewe chyrche of Cryste Also saynt Gregory wolde haue tolde frere Barns that whan saynt Chrysostome yf those wordes were hys dothe sende vs to seke the chyrche by the scrypture he thought it necessary that the chyrche were founden For els he myght haue sent theym onely to the scrypture to lerne the trewe fayth and good lyuynge euery man by hym selfe and leue the chyrche vnsought But it appereth synnys he sendeth them to seke it there he meaneth not onely that they there maye fynde the meanes to fynde it and know it as I sayd before but also that to fynde it know it is a thyng so necessary that nedys it ought to be had bycause of the trewe doctryne to be taught them by the same chyrche as well in any other thyng that god hath by hys holy spyryte taught the same chyrche as also in thynges necessary to saluacyon the trewe vnderstandynge of the same scrypture and than syth he wolde that the readers of the scrypture shold fynd out the trew chyrch to lerne of it the trew exposycyon of the scripture and of an vnknowen chyrch no man can lerne by gyuynge it credence as to the trew chyrch theruppon wold saynt Gregory yet agayne conclude that these wordes of saynt Chrysostome yf they were hys do clerely confounde frere Barns And therfore wolde he fynally put frere Barons in choce whyther he wyl haue those wordes taken for saynt Chrysostoms or no. If he wold not haue them taken for his than wolde saynt Gregory byd hym go scrape that authoryte out of his boke agayne say no ferther but that one man wryteth thus but I wote nere who sauynge that an Arrian he was Now yf he wyll haue theym saynte Chrysostoms wordes thā appereth it playne wolde saynt Gregory say by y ◠same wordes y ◠saynt Chrysostom in the selfe same few wordes whiche Barons bryngeth forth for hym doth .iiii. or .v. tymes clerely playnely cōfoūde hym Now yf these folke wolde yet haue stycked styll and say the decre of that coūsayle made agaynst them was nought for they them selfe onely be the very trewe chyrch of Cryst than wolde saynte Gregory haue sayed at laste why syrs how can that be For ye wote well that of knowen chyrches there was neuer none that durste professe them selfe for the very chyrche but euer they founde theym selfe so farre in that poynt to weyke that they were fayne in conclusyon to say that the very chyrche was a secrete chyrche vnknowen wherof some of them selfe myghte at the leste wyse be some parte And thys do all you your own selfe so fully afferme that neuer heretykes affermed it more styffely Go to therfore wolde saynte Gregory saye to some offycer there present and telle these felowes wyth a stycke and let vs haue the nomber and the names Now whan thys offycer hadde comen wyth hys stycke and patted them vppon the pates and the cryour wyth hym and as he hyt them reherse them thus frere Luther one Cate hys nonne twayne Tyndale thre frere Barons foure when here were all than wolde saynt Gregory haue sayed what here be but foure of you and here be your names rehersed and your persons present and you be all knowen and your false fayth and abomynable bestely sectes by youre owne bestely professyon all to gyther knowen and therfore you can not be the chyrche of trewe good men vnknowen For though an ipocryte maye be vnknowen for naught yet he that by his open euyll and abomynable dedys doynge and open professyon of false abomynable heresyes sheweth hym selfe naughte can not be for that tyme secretely a good man And so be you whā ye haue all babled well and iustely condempned by the whole catholyke chyrche whyche is also well knowen and whyche by your owne reasons and by Barns expresse wordes is here well proued to be the chyrche that can not erre and therfore it is well proued that all you do playnely and dāpnably erre And ferthermore syth they were than proued to be not the very chyrche after theyr owne doctryne bycause they were than made open syth of trouth they beyng open or secrete is not the thynge that maketh it the trew chyrche nor is the substaunce of the mater but an accydent therunto it appereth playne that they whyche by beynge made open be proued after theyr doctryne not to be the trewe chyrche were alwaye a false chyrche before they were made open But now suppose me farther that forthwyth after this some man wolde amonge theym say vnto saynt Gregorye and to that whole assemble that they were comen thyther to gether from all partes of the worlde wyth theyr meruaylouse labour and theyr importable payne and that nowe theyr thre days vitayle that they brought frō home is more then halfe spent shall be great diffyculty for some of them that dwell farthest of to gete home agayne wyth the remanaunt And that therfore yf yt myghte so be thought good to the whole counsayle whyle they were all the whole flok of all crysten people to gether vppon that fayre playne yt were well done to take an order and make a lawe amonge them there that for any nede that sholde at any tyme after happen there sholde neuer more all the whole people be called agayne to gether but oute of euery parte some couenyent number cōuenyently called to gether And that such an assemble so gardered to gether shold repsent y ◠who le peple and sholde haue the selfe same authoryte full and whole in all lawes after to be made and all doutes of scrypture or questyons of the catholyque fayth to be declared that the very whole crysten people sholde haue yf they were all present there man woman and chylde syth it were very lykely that the necessyte of a generall counsayle sholde often happen and not well possyble that all the whole people beyng so mayne a multytude dwellynge so farre a sonder shold so often though yt happed so this onys from all partes of the world come whole alway to gether to the generall coūsayle and syth yt were not to be douted but that Chryste whyche promysed and performed the sendynge of his owne