1. 'T is evident it hugely derogates from Gods Mercy and Christs Merits to teach Men That after all Gods Promises to justify us freely by his Grace Rom. iii. 24. And after Christs blotting out the Hand-writing of Ordinances that was against us Coloss ii 14. they must still smart so long and so severely and are left to pay so great a part of it themselves Po. You are mistaken again for we hold that because of the Communion of Saints one man may satisfy for another and that the Alms and Prayers of the Living and especially of Holy Fryers and Nuns will avail for the delivering the Dead out of Purgatory Prot. You may hold what you please but Scripture tells us Every one shall bear his own burden Galat. vi 5. and that no Man can redeem his Brother nor make agreement to God for him because it cost more to redeem their Souls so that he must let that alone for ever Psal xlix 7 8. And that all the good Works of the best Men are little enough for themselves Math. xxv 9. So that we wonder the wiser Lay-men will be deluded by a Doctrin which is so ill proved and tends so Apparently to make the People put off their Repentance till their Death and to give the Monks an opportunity to draw Legacies from the dying and large Gifts from their living Friends that is to make the Laity Wicked and the Clergy Rich and to hazard the Salvation of both Po. We do not think the Money ill bestowed which we give to our Priests and Fryers whose Prayers are more pure and prevalent than those of your Clergy because they are under those three Holy Vows of Chastity Poverty and Obedience Prot. Vows without observing them are but a snare and an aggravation of the Sin when they are broken as two of these most notoriously are by your Priests and Religious Orders who are infamous in all Countries for those Artifices they use to get Wealth and for their unnatural and scandalous Lust and your Church is justly taxed with all the infamous Consequences of the Vow of Chastity because she imposes it on young Persons before they know their own strength and connives at Fornication in them rather than she will allow them to Marry that the Church may be their Heir and that they may have less dependance on Kings and States as being single Persons Po. You would fain make this a piece of Policy whereas it is Religion for S. Paul declares single persons are fittest to wait upon the Lord without distraction 1 Cor. vii 35. and on that account it is most proper for the Religious and Priests Prot. The Apostle advises all Christians and not Priests only to continue single if they were so as best for those Times of Persecution and provided they found they could live Chastly Unmarried otherwise to avoid Fornication he Commands them even then to Marry 1 Cor. vii 2. Whereas you forbid it to all your Religious in all Times and all Cases Besides he laid no Vow upon them Ver. 35. Nor was he himself under any Vow but was free to Marry if he had pleased 1 Cor. ix 5. And he allows a Bishop to be the Husband of one Wife 1. Tim. iii. 2. and supposes Deacons then had Wives Ver. 11. Nor doth he count Marriage impurity in any but affirms It is honourable in all and the Bed Undefiled Hebr. xiii 4. he excepts not the Clergy so that we doubt not our Married Clergy's Prayers who live soberly according to Gods Ordinance are more pure and prevalent than yours most of which live in Perjury burning Desires and Fornication Po. But your Priests have not power by their Prayers to cast out Evil Spirits as ours have which shews that Ours not Yours are the true Successors of the Apostles to whom Christ gave power over Unclean Spirits Mark xvi 17. Prot. Christ gave his Apostles power then to drink Poyson and take up Serpents without harm as also afterwards to Speak with Tongues Heal the Sick by a Touch and Raise the Dead yet your Priests dare not pretend to any of these Miracles which are all ceased long since 1 Cor. xii 8. Only they keep up the Pretence to Cast out Evil Spirits because that is more easily counterfeited than any of the rest And if this alone would serve 't is likely Conjurers might prove themselves the Apostles Successors as well as your Priests for they can Cast out Evil Spirits better than the Romish Priests who as may be noted do Cast out the Devil as often out of the same Party in divers places as there is occasion to make a Proselyte or work upon the Superstitious Now this must be done either by Compact with the Devil or the Party pretended to be Possessed and either way it is little to their Honour Besides I have known a good Physician by Natural Means Cure those whom these Priests pretended were Possessed which shews they often cast the Devil out when he was never in Po. Well I cannot but pity your Obstinacy and pray for you who wilfully shut your Eyes against the plainest Arguments for Catholic Truth Prot. There is more Reason for me to pity and pray for you who in all these Points do contradict Holy Scripture which cannot deceive us and believe false and feigned Traditions invented by designing Men for Evil ends and for my part I count it a wise Resolution and no Obstinacy to give credit to God rather than Men. Po. You flatter your self with Scripture taken in your own sense but you did own the Catholic Church was the best Interpreter of Scripture and I assure you the Holy Fathers who in all Ages have delivered down to us the Sense of the Catholic Church agree exactly with us in all these Opinions and Practices which you Protestants reject and can you think all these holy Ancient Doctors were deceived and that a few obscure Modern Reformers are in the right Prot. Truly I have but little skill in these Writings of the Fathers but I have heard our Clergy who are as well read in them as any of you declare That all these Fathers condemn your Opinions as much as Holy Scripture doth and that these Opinions and Practices were late Inventions of your Church and were set up in Times of Ignorance and Superstition meerly to gain Power and Wealth by them And though I am not able to make this out I promise you whenever you please to bring one of our Churchmen that shall prove what I say In the mean time because the Scripture was before the Fathers I am well satisfied that mine is the oldest and the best Religion and am resolved therefore by Gods Grace never to forsake it and if you lov'd your own Soul above your Worldly Interest you would embrace it also which I heartily pray you may and so bid you Farewell Books newly Published Printed for Robert Clavell at the Peacock in St. Pauls Church-Yard 1686. THE
THE PLAUSIBLE ARGUMENTS OF A Romish Priest ANSWERED BY AN English Protestant Seasonable and Useful for all Protestant Families Licensed May 24. 1686. LONDON Printed for R. Clavell at the Sign of the Peacock in S. Pauls Church-yard 1686. TO THE READER IN the following Dialogue though not All yet the most Material Points wherein the Roman Church differs from the Church of England are briefly and plainly discoursed So that while by their little Tracts and short Catechisms daily Printed and sent abroad the Romish Emissaries do labour to Seduce the Weaker sort of Protestants They may be provided with short and satisfactory Answers to their most usual Fallacies Their Assaults are generally in the Dark and because it is impossible always to stand by those particular Persons whom they labour to Draw-in it is thought fit to publish this little Manual to enable those that are Attacked readily to defend themselves To which end the Holy Scripture is here recommended as the best Touch-Stone to justifie our Doctrines and discover their Corruptions And the more their Guilt makes them fly from it the more our Sincerity should make us cleave to it For this is in every Protestants Hand and there are so many and so plain Places of it which condemn the Opinions and Practices of the Roman Church that it requires no great Skill nor Art to discern how different they are from Gods Word And all the Learning and Artisice of their greatest Doctors will not be able to hide it from a plain and honest Enquirer that will take but the Pains to read this Divine Vnalterable Vniversally received and Infallible Book of God I know they pretend especially to the Vnlearned That all Antiquity is clearly for them but it is best for those who are not Read in Ancient Authors to leave that Province to the Clergy of the Church of England who have hitherto always worsted them at that Weapon also And since we can prove both by Scripture and Antiquity That all their Additional Articles of Faith are False and Erroneous and yet they do acknowledge all those Articles of Faith which we hold as necessary to Salvation to be True Doubtless Ours must be the safer Religion in which both Sides do agree Again The plain Words of Holy Scripture prove Our Religion but all those Points wherein they differ from us cannot be proved but by pretended Traditions some of which are expresly contrary to Gods Written Word The Scripture was not made by us but by the GOD of Truth and it is owned not by us alone but by them and all Christians to be the Word and Will of God and this is clearly on Our Side But those Traditions which they fly to for their Evidence are of their own Making and in their own Keeping No other Christians do allow them and We have nothing but their own Word in their own Cause to prove them to be Genuine Which being the Case I hope none will ever be perswaded to leave a certain plain and evident Religion of Gods own prescribing for an uncertain obscure and Ill-proved Religion which is no more but a meer Human Invention as the ensuing Pages will more fully declare THE CONTENTS THe Religion of the Church of England Taught by Christ and his Apostles Page 1 Concerning the Scriptures in an Vnknown Tongue p. 2 Concerning the Pretended Roman Catholick Church p. 3 Concerning St. Peter's Superiority and Jurisdiction over the rest of the Apostles p. 4 Concerning the Popes Supremacy p. 6 Concerning the Popes Infallibility p. 7 Concerning Implicit Faith or Believing as the Church Believes p. 8 Concerning Oral Tradition or the Faith delivered down by Word of Mouth from Age to Age p. 9 The Church of Rome full of gross Errors p. 13 Concerning Image-Worship p. 14 Concerning Invocation of Saints and Angels p. 17 Concerning the Worship of the Blessed Virgin p. 22 Concerning the Adoration of Relicks p. 23 Concerning Divine Service in an Unknown Tongue p. 24 Concerning Transubstantiation p. 27 Concerning Half-Communion or denying the Cup to the Laity p. 35 Concerning the Doctrine of Concomitancy or the Blood always accompanying the Body p. 36 Concerning Auricular Confession or that which is privately whispered into the Ear of the Priest p. 37 Concerning Priestly Absolution p 38 Concerning Satisfaction or Penances p. 39 Concerning Indulgences p. 42 Concerning Purgatory p. 44 Concerning the Sanctity of Religious Orders p. 50 Cencerning Exorcisms or Casting-out Evil Spirits p. 52 The Conclusion p. 53 A DIALOGUE BETWEEN A Popish Priest AND A PROTESTANT OF THE Church of England Popish Priest WHat Religion are you of Protestant Of the same that Christ and his Apostles taught which is professed by the Church of England whereof I am a Member Po. How do you know that the Religion you profess is the same that was taught by Christ and his Apostles Prot. By the Scriptures wich they left behind them Po. How can you tell whether they writ and left that Book behind them or no Prot. The Book is worthy of such Authors and all Christians though they differ in other things agree in this nor dare you deny it Po. We do not deny it only we say you ought to confess you received this Book from the Roman Church and must learn the meaning of it from her Prot. This Book hath been preserved in all Christian Churches but we received it from those good Protestants who translated it into English whereas your Priests as I am informed kept it in Latin and withheld it from such plain Men as my self while they had power here Po. Though they did â—o it was only for fear you should wrest the Scripture to your own destruction 2 Pet. iii. 16. Prot. That danger is only in some places hard to be understood and which I may safely be ignorant of But in all things necessary to Salvation it is so plain as to give understanding to the Simple Psal cxix 130. Wherefore I rather think they concealed it all from us to keep us from seeing their Errors because the more I read it the less I like your Religion Po. Is it not a strange presumption in you that are but a Lay-man to read that which you cannot rightly understand Prot. It is no presumption to obey the Command of Christ who bids us Search the Scriptures John v. 39. and declaring the not knowing them to be the cause of Error Math. xxii 29. And the Beraeans are commended for examining the Apostles Doctrine by Scripture Acts xvii 11. Now surely if we have Commands and Examples of Reading the Scripture it must be supposed we can in some measure understand it Po. Well you read that Christ will be with his Church to the end of the World Math. xxviii 20. and therefore you ought to believe the Catholic Church can only give you the true sense of Scripture Prot. I do believe this and am a Member of this Catholic Church being rightly baptized into it and holding the
No doubtless not where your Church expresly contradicts God and his holy Apostle The Spirit of God by S. Paul commands Men to pray with understanding and forbids any to use an unknown Tongue in Christian Assemblies enjoyning the Priest so to make his Prayers and Praises that the most unlearned may joyn in them be edified by them and say Amen to them 1 Cor. xiv 14 15 16 17. and 26. and your Church bids men pray without understanding and prescribes an unknown Tongue for the Priest to Pray and Praise God in wherein the People cannot joyn and whereby they are not edified yea to which they cannot with understanding say Amen In such a case to obey the Church is to disobey God and a great Impiety Po. You must know Latin was the Language of the ancient Christians at Rome and we have not altered our Prayers but only kept them in that Tongue in which they were made at first by the Apostles who planted our Church Prot. Now you have yielded the Cause for if the Apostles who were Jews did not set up the Hebrew Prayers at Rome but Latin because that was the Language which the People then understood if you were of their Spirit or followed their steps you ought now to turn them into other Languages because the People do not understand Latin and because it is necessary they should pray with understanding Is this your Apostolical Church which acts contrary to the Writings and Example of the Apostles or could the Apostles leave you any Tradition to contradict their own Commands and Practice Po. May not the People think of God and good things and so be very devout at these Prayers though they do not understand the words Prot. They may think of God and good things at home and so need not come to the Publick Service at all if this be sufficient We think Publick Prayers were designed for the People to come and unite their particular and hearty desires to the Petitions made by the Priest and this praying with one accord Acts i. 14. makes them more prevalent than private Prayer S. Math. xviii 20. But your People are thinking of one thing when the Priest is saying another and cannot desire the particular things asked by the Priest because they do not know them So that this turns the publick Prayers into private and the Priest might as well pray without a Congregation Po. It is to God we speak in Prayer and since he understands us it is no marter whether the People understand them or no. Prot. By this Argument you need not Pray at all because God knows your necessities before you ask Yet he bids us ask that by the words of our Prayers we may stir up our Desires exercise our Devotion and excite our Faith not that we may instruct him Wherefore your People are robbed of all that comfort and benefit which ours find so sensibly in our English Prayers meerly because your Church scorns to reform any thing and you can never expect that those who by Experience have found the sweetness and advantage of our pious and plain Liturgy will endure your dry unprofitable Latin Prayers Po. Well but some of your People think Sermons the main thing in Publick Worship and we hope to gain them however because we Preach in English Prot. Possibly some of these may be catcht by this Bait but all wise Protestants will ask you why there is not as much reason for the People to know what they are to speak to God as what the Priest is to speak to them and will also desire to know why you should read the Psalms and Lessons and other parts of Scripture in Latin which God writ for our Learning and Instruction 1 Cor. x. 11. and so make it as impossible the People should learn any thing from it or be instructed by it as for Boys in Horn-Books to be made any wiser by reading a Latin Author to them Po. I have told you before This is lest the People should wrest the Scriptures if they were in a Language they understood Prot. Why then do you preach in English May they not wrest your Sermons as well as Holy Scripture Is there more danger now than in the Apostles times Or is your Church wiser than they Did not they write it in a Language generally understood And was it not soon after turned into Latin because the Romans best understood that Language Did they not deliver it to all and command all to read it and search it to meditate on it and teach it to their Children Though some are Gluttons and Drunkards we must not deny all Men the use of Meat and Drink nor would you thus keep the Scriptures from the People but only for fear that such plain Men as I should discover your Corruptions Po. Methinks you should discover your own Corruptions there For what is more plainly expressed in Scripture than these words concerning the Sacrament of the Altar This is my Body Luke xxii 19. and yet you will not own the real Flesh of Christ to be there Is not this to deny Christ's words and disbelieve the Scripture Prot. We may as well charge you with denying Christs words and disbelieving Scripture since you affirm his real Blood to be there though he tells us This Cup is the new Testament in my Blood Luk. xxii 20. 1 Cor. xi 25. You must confess there is a Figure in this Expression or else you must affirm the Wine is Transubstantiated into the New Testament and if there be a Figure in one Verse why may there not be one also in the other in regard this substantial Change which you pretend is either in both parts or in neither Po. However we have much the advantage of you because we take the Literal sense which is both the more common and the more easie sense whilst you are forced to fly to Tropes and Figures Prot. You must consider this Sacrament is a Mystery and in discoursing of Mysteries it is more common in Scripture to speak Figuratively than Literally yea what is more usual there than to call the Sign by the name of the thing signified and the thing signified by the name of the Sign So the Rock is said to be Christ 1 Cor. x. 4. and Christ is said to be Bread John vi 48. yet none are so absurd to say the Rock is substantially changed into Christ or Christ into Bread And when the Church is called The Body of Christ Colos i. 24. your selves do not affirm that there is any change made of the Church into Christs Flesh and Blood though there be more said of this than of the Sacramental Bread viz That we are Members of his Body of his Flesh and of his Bones Ephes v. 30. So when Christ is called a Vine a Door a Way a Branch c. it is very certain the Expressions are Figurative and there are a thousand places in the Holy Bible which cannot be otherwise understood
Commemoration as we say but it cannot be a Sacrificing of Christ again as you say if we refer the matter as we ought to be judged by Scripture wherein there is nothing to shew that is a Propitiatory Sacrifice for the Sins of the Living much less for the Sins of the Dead whose estate can never be altered after this Life Luk. xvi 26 28. But as they fall they must lye for ever Eccles xi 3. Po. The World may now see how unjustly you brag of your Magnifying the Merit of Christs Passion and how falsly you accuse us of diminishing and disparaging it Since we hold it sufficient to pardon both Quick and Dead and you deny it can do any good to the Dead Prot. It is not for want of Merit in Christs Passion but for want of Capacity in those who have not Repented in their Life Time that hinders these Deceased Persons from receiving the benefits of Christs Death Christ hath declared he will pardon none but them that do repent and if Men do not repent before they die they cannot repent afterwards and so cannot receive any benefit of Christs Passion and if living Men be taught they may get a Pardon after Death it will encourage them to put off their Repentance to the very last Nor would so false a Doctrin without any ground in Scripture ever have been taught in your Church but only that the crafty Inventers of it found it would make Masses sell at dear Rates Po. You are very free of your Censures but we despise them being assured our Doctrins and Practices are the true sense of Scripture as it is interpreted to us by the Holy Catholic Church Prot. Do you really think so Pray then before we leave this Subject will you tell me How the making only some that is the Priests to Drink of the Cup can possibly be the true meaning of Christs Words Drink ye all of this Math. xxvi 27. Po. Why it is plain the Apostles were Priests and not Lay Men and it was only to the Apostles that Christ spake these Words and though we forbid the People to Drink of this Cup yet we Command the Priests to do it Prot. Was it not also only to the Apostles that Christ said then Take Eat this my Body Ver. 26. and will it not follow by your way of arguing that none but Priests must Eat of the Bread and that the People must receive neither Bread nor Wine You know the Apostles stood then in the place of Lay-Men and represented the Congregation as Christ did the Priest so that S. Paul plainly applies to the People the Commands both of Eating and Drinking which Christ gave at first only to his Apostles And nothing is more evident than that all the People at Corinth did Drink of the Cup and some of them too largely 1 Cor. x. 21. Chap. xi 21. and Ver. 27 28 29. Chap. xii 13. So that I wonder how you dare call the contradicting Christs Commands and the Precepts and Practice of the Apostles the true sense of Scripture and why you rob the People of one half of the Sacrament Po. We rob them of nothing because we declare we give them whole Christ which is contained fully under either species Prot. This is no more than if one who clipt off half the Kings Coin should say it was still current Money The very declaration it self supposes that our Lord instituted two species when one was sufficient and so to excuse your selves of impiety you accuse him of doing things in vain And since Christ is here set out as having suffered for Sin and so his Blood separated from his Body we cannot imagin how the Bread alone should be sufficient to set forth this Mystery Po. There is danger lest we should spill the Cup in giving it to the People and lest it should be profaned by the rude mouths of Lay-men Prot. This danger may be in giving it to the Priests however you are not of S. Pauls mind who when the Cup was abused at Corinth even to excess durst not alter Christs Institution nor take it wholy away as you do thereby committing a grievous Sacriledge in keeping back part of that whereof God hath made you dispensers and as much as in you lyes depriving the People of the benefit of Christs Blood Po. We can find more fault with your preparation for it than you with our dispensing of it for why do not you all go to a Priest to confess your sins before you do receive as the Scripture doth appoint Prot. The Scripture appoints every Man shall examine himself before he Eat of that Bread and Drink of that Cup 1 Cor. xi 28. Now of this you say very little but our Church strictly enjoyns all thus to prepare But Scripture no where appoints it as necessary for all to go to a Priest and confess before every act of receiving Po. Doth not Scripture declare that penitent Sinners confessed their Sins to a Priest Math. iii. 6. Acts. xix 8. And command us to confess our faults one to another James v. 16. and can there be any fitter time to do this than just before we Communicate Prot. We do not forbid Men at any time to Confess to a Priest but advise them to it in case of a troubled Mind or a violent Temptation and especially if that be their condition who are to receive the Sacrament But we dare not lay such a Snare on our People as to make this always necessary since God hath not declared it is so And those Examples you bring concern Publick Confession of Sins before the Priest and the Congregation and so doth that place in S. James for it orders us to Confess not to the Righteous Man alone but one to another that so the Righteous Man and all the rest may pray for Mercy for the Penitent and I have heard this was the Primitive way of Confessing Sins and is still here in our Church where the Offences are scandalous and the Party censured But this is no ground for your Private Confessing into the Priests Ear and so getting an Absolution of course at Set times Po. Hath not Christ granted to the Priests a power to remit mens sins or retain them John xx 23. and must not the Iudge who is to condemn or set free of necessity hear all the particulars concerning the Criminal Prot. Our Priests will not grant us Absolution in particular Cases unless we do so far confess the Crimes we are guilty of as to shew our selves truly penitent but they do not compel us under pain of Damnation to come and tell them all our Sins which Scripture saith is impossible Psal xix 12. Nor doth the Kings granting a Commission to certain Judges to hear and to determine Causes oblige those who can make up their differences among themselves to come and be tried before them Besides the Priest is not the highest and last Judge nor can he infallibly tell when
such a man as I am to know what these Pastors have judged about these matters than to know what the Scripture saith of them Po. Have not Councils set this down and is not the Pope always ready to declare the Churches true Sense Prot. But how can I know which are lawful Councils or what they have determined or if I did know the Words and doubted of the Sense it would be very hard for me to get the Pope to tell me in words or writing what it was and if the Pope did this he cannot speak or write plainer than God hath done in holy Scripture and therefore I am told there is as much difference among you about the Sense of Councils and Popes as there is among us about the Sense of Scripture Po. Well but your own Catholic Bishop or Priest can tell you the true meaning of both Councils and Popes in all these matters Prot. So can our Protestant Bishops and Priests tell us the true meaning of Scripture But if you be forced to resort at last to particular fallible Men for the certainty of your Faith why do you boast of a better way to be infallibly assured of the Truth than Protestants can ever have and upon that false ground urge Men to come over to your Church Po. Because we rely upon that Oral Tradition which hath been delivered down through all Ages in the Roman Church and can never fail so long as we have living Witnesses to declare it and is not this certainer than a dead written Rule that may be interpreted as every man pleases Prot. No sure for all Men put things of greatest concern in Writing and do not trust things for Posterity to be told by word of Mouth A written Rule says always the same words and can have no ends upon us but your living Witnesses by forgetfulness or to serve their Pride and Covetousness may deliver Tradition variously And you have no Evidence that those things are Apostolical Traditions which your Church says are so but either ancient Writings which are of far less credit than Scripture and then also you must suppose those ancient Writings to be more evident than your Traditions because you prove these by them or else you must trust to fallible Men whose Interest it may be and is to deceive you and thus your present living Witnesses bear sole Testimony to themselves which is very suspicious at the best So that your way is neither certainer nor easier than ours Po. I know not what your way is unless you make every private Man to be judge of Scripture when that declares The People must enquire the Law from the Priests Mouth Malach. ii 7. And Commands us to obey them that are over us in the Lord Hebr. xiii 17. affirming that no Scripture is of any private Interpretation 2 Pet. i. 20. Prot. Our way is to read diligently and pray heartily to be directed And if we doubt then to go to our Protestant Bishops and Priests for they and not your Clergy are over us in the Lord and they are as able as willing and of as great Integrity as any among you to give us Satisfaction And though we do not pretend that every private Man may interpret difficult places without the advice of his Pastor Yet you are mistaken in your Interpretation of that Place of S. Peter 2 Pet. i. 20. Where the Apostle is proving the Scripture is a sure Rule because it was not written or first Interpreted by any private Mans Will or Fancy but the Authors spake by the Holy Ghost and according to the Will of God Which is nothing to your purpose Po. However it seems you are forced to rely on these Priests of yours for the true meaning of Scripture and the final certainty of your Faith and yet you call this a slavish thing in Catholics Prot. Our Priests do not barely tell us this or that is the Sense of Scripture and then forbid us all further enquiry which would really be an enslaving of their People But they compare one Scripture with another and give us sound and solid reasons for all their Expositions desiring us no further to believe them than the clearness of their evidence deserves and this allows us the freedom of rational Beings Po. But is it not contrary to Scripture and reason both that the People should judge of their Pastors Proofs and Declarations Prot. It is not contrary to Scripture for there all Christians are expresly commanded To prove all things and hold fast that which is good 1 Thess v. 21. and to try the Spirits 1 John iv 1. St. Paul bids the Corinthians Judge what he said 1 Cor. x. 15. And likes those who tried his Declarations by the Scripture Acts xvii 11. So that no doubt God will expect Men shall have something more to say for that Faith on which they trust their Souls than that their Priest barely affirmed that it was true Po. Is not the Priest judge of the People and can it be reasonable then that they should be his Iudges Deut. xvii 9. Prot. We do not pretend to judge our Priests but only to use our Reason which God gave us not in vain in judging meerly for our selves because we read that every Man shall bear his own burden and therefore every man must prove his own Work Galat. vi 4 5. and this gives us not any power over either our Priests or Fellow Christians 't is no judgment of direction for others but only a judgment of discretion which to strip us of is to degrade us into the rank of Brutes Po. Well though you seem fond of your own way yet even the good effects of our Method may convince any impartial Man it is better For do you not see how quiet and unanimous we are by our Peoples intire relyance on their Pastors Prot. This may prove it a cunninger but not a safer Method The Turks are as unanimous as they are in your Church but they may thank ignorance and severities for it And for our parts we envy not their happiness who have found out a way not prescribed by Christ to live peaceably in gross Errors and to be unanimous in their Mistakes Po. I know you aim at your Church and wonder how such a Man as you dare charge the Roman Church with gross Errors and Mistakes Prot. Because I can make my Charge good For if Scripture be the Rule of what we ought to believe and practise then your kneeling and praying before Images your Invocation of Angels and Saints adoring Relicks praying in an unknown Tongue Transubstantiation Half Communion Auricular Confession Indulgences and your Doctrine of Purgatory with divers others which I can name are gross errors and corruptions believed and practised in the Roman Church Po. You are very bold But I doubt not to justify all these opinions and practices and to convince you so fully of the truth and innocency of them that I hope you will own
to be sufficient to add so many other Mediators to him Yea it seems you believe they have more power with God or love for us than Christ hath otherwise you would not think it necessary to joyn their Prayers to his nor make more addresses to these Servants than to the Son We know as Christ is God he is most able and as Man most willing to help us Hebr. ii 18. and are assured he is able to serve to the uttermost all that come unto God by him Hebr. vii 25. And when the Father hath provided so All-sufficient a Mediator to fly to others and desire them to add their interest to his is both ingratitude to the Father and a disparagement to the Son when you have laid all the fine colours on it you can Po. I will convince you by a practice of your own that herein you censure us unjustly Do not you desire the Saints on Earth to pray for you though Christ be your Mediator and is this any injury to Christ why then may we not as well desire those in Heaven to do it Prot. We have many Precepts and Examples in Scripture to desire holy Men on Earth to pray with us and for us which shews that is according to Gods Will 1 Joh. v. 14. but you have not one word to direct you to desire this of the Saints in Heaven Besides we do not kneel to good Men and put their Names into the same Litanies and Prayers with God Almighty nor desire to be heard by their Merits They pray with us and for us as our Fellow-sufferers who see and hear our wants in particular and pray only in Christs Name and through his Merits and so are joynt Petitioners with us not joynt Mediators with Christ And withal every particular Man goes to them and tells them his case and then he is sure they know his wants but Scripture is very clear that those who are dead even the best Men know not the particular wants of their dearest Friends 2 Kings xxii 20. Job xiv 2. Eccles ix 5. Isai lxiii 16. Nor is it possible for any Creature to hear the Petitions of many thousands at one time in divers places and if they cannot hear you what are you better for praying to them Po. This is easily answered for since God knows all things and they are with him always cannot he without any difficulty make our Prayers known to them Prot. We question not Gods power but why should he do this since you pray to them without his direction and by doing so accuse the way which he prescribed of being insufficient nor have you any Promise that God will acquaint them with your Prayers Besides you cannot but think it absurd if not ridiculous to pray to the Saints to pray to God for you and yet till God tell them first they cannot tell him what it is they are to desire of him this is to employ God to inform the Saints of our wants and looks like writing to a Courtier which cannot read to desire him to beg a Favour of the King for us because we were unworthy to write immediately to the King and yet knew before hand this Courtier must go to the King himself to read the Letter Po. We value not your idle Comparisons Our Church tells us the Saints do hear us and it is no matter whether or no we know how they do hear us Prot. The Scripture tells you they do not hear you and Reason tells you they cannot and will you believe your Church against both Your Church never durst define the way how they come to hear you because many Absurdities follow upon all methods that ever yet were devised And a wary man would scarce credit a thing of this consequence that cannot be proved or made out much less would he go to Mediators of whose hearing him he can have no other assurance than the bare word of those Men who gain by the Doctrin when he hath an All-sufficient Mediator who he is sure can always hear and help him and to whom he may pray without any doubts to damp his Devotion Po. Did not the Virgin Mary prophecy that all Generations should call her blessed Luke i. 48. and have we not reason to believe that the Mother of God hath great power in Heaven Prot. We call her Blessed and bless God for her but she never said All Generations should pray to her or impertinently repeat that Salutation which was proper to the occasion of her Conception of Christ as if it were a formal Prayer to her now Nor is there one word in Scripture to direct us to pray to her at all much less to say more Ave's to her than Pater nosters to God and to make larger Offerings to her than to Jesus who declares he hath all Power in Heaven and Earth so that all your worship of her is an Invention of your own and meer Superstition Po. We find it makes the People more devout to propose so many glorified Saints to them to be adored than if we confined them to adore only one invisible God Prot. You may observe if you would own the Truth that this impious Device makes the Worship of God to be neglected inclining your People to rely more on the Saints help than on Gods and to give them the honour due to him for those Blessings which he alone bestows on them and since God hath confined us only to worship and serve him Math. iv 10. it is Superstition and Idolatry not Devotion for to make any other Beings the Objects of your Worship Po. Well but since God hath wrought so many Miracles by the Relicks of the Saints doubtless he is well pleased with our adoring them and their Relicks Prot. There have been many false Relicks proposed for true ones and many forged Miracles invented by cunning Priests for gain as hath been undeniably proved and if there be any true Relicks of real Saints and any certain Miracles it is not the Saint or his Relicks but God by whose power the Miracle was wrought as S. Peter tells us Acts iii. 12. who is to have the glory And though we find in Scripture that Miracles were wrought by Moses Rod Elijahs Mantle the Hem of Christs Garment S. Peters Shadow and S. Pauls Handkerchief we never read that any of the Faithful adored these things Po. Perhaps you have been told we wholly neglect making Prayers to God by Christ Iesus whereas we have many Prayers in our Publick Offices like yours directed to God in Christs Name and I hope you have no Objection against these Prot. You ought to have no other Prayers but such and yet though these Prayers be right as to their Matter there is one intollerable Fault in them all that they are made in Latin which the People do not understand Po. Is not the Church to direct in what manner Publick Prayers shall be made and are we not to obey her Orders Prot.
he doth hear all that Men say of themselves whether they be Hypocrites or true Penitents and therefore we are advised to confess all our Sins daily to God the Supreme Judge and to labour to prove our Repentance to be sincere to him by amending our lives And we are not obliged to go to a Priest but in weighty Cases and on great Occasions Po. This is one great Complaint we have against your pretended Reformation that you do not oblige Sinners to 〈◊〉 any satisfaction for their Offences and have laid aside the Sacrament of Pennance Prot. We do account it necessary for notorious and scandalous Offenders to do a publick Pennance that their Shame and Sorrow may be as evident as their Crimes and this they are to do for Satisfaction to the Church 2 Cor. ii 7. And we hold it necessary in more secret Sins that the Sinner do heartily bewail them humbly confess them to God and utterly forsake them for the time to come and upon these terms we doubt not God will forgive them for Christs sake according to his Promises in Holy Scripture Prov. xxviii 13. Ezek. xviii 21. and we will trust Gods Word sooner than yours Po. But after God hath pardoned the Sinner as to the eternal Punishment due to him which Christ bought off He must satisfie the Divine Iustice for temporal Pains still remaining due to those Sins by submitting to the Pennances laid on him by his Priest Prot. This is a meer Device of your own not grounded on Holy Scripture for there it is declared that Christ hath delivered us from all the Course due to us and saved us to the uttermost and cleansed us from all Sin and made our Peace so that if we have Interest in him there is no Condemnation to us 'T is true God may and doth sometimes Câ—â—â—â—â—se good Men after he resolves to pardon them 2 Sam. xii 14. which is not to satisfie his Justice but to warn them not easily to run into the like Offences Heb. xii 6. And true Penitents have voluntarily put on Sackcloth and laid in Ashes and Fasted and Prayed c. But this was to shew the sincerity of their Repentance and the reality of their Sorrow for offending God or to make themselves more fit to pray earnestly for the averting the Divine Displeasure But Gods Word never makes these Acts any part of Satisfaction to God nor do we find one Precedent of Christ or his Holy Apostles enjoyning such Acts purely to satisfie Gods Justice for any remaining Punishment Po. Well you cannot deny it is more for the honour of Gods Iustice to enjoyn the Offenders to make him some satisfaction rather than to teach them he will freely forgive and you must grant it is more likely to restrain men from future Crimes if they suffer in Body or Goods for those that are past Prot. But it is not much for Gods Honour that when your Church pretends God will not remit these remaining temporal Pains without men do their Pennance yet she will remit the Pennance it self for a certain Price and so Money will buy off that which you say Christs Death doth not satisfie for And indeed none but the Poor almost do any Pennance with you the Rich who can gratifie the Priest well are Absolved and Indulged and however you order it in your Church there are as many notorious and customary Sinners for all these Pennances and Payments as any where else yea they sin with less fear and regret than others because they foresee a Pilgrimage or a little Fasting a few Lashes or a Sum of Money will make their Peace with the Priest and so they take little Care by a sincere Amendment to make their Peace with God Po. I suppose you reflect upon our Indulgences which are no other than the use of that Power of remitting Sins which Christ gave to S. Peter and in him to the Chief Pastor of the Catholic Church and doubtless it is a most comfortable thing when S. Peters Successor or his Delegates do so solemnly declare us clear from those Sins we have confessed Prot. S. Peter never sold this Power Acts viii 18. for he affirms We are not redeemed with corruptible things as Silver and Gold 1 Pet. i. 8. Had he used the same gainful Trade which the Pope drives he could not have said Silver and Gold have I none Acts iii. 6. So that you must not mention that holy Apostle as your Patron till you follow his Example and grant Pardons to none but them that upon a strict search are found truly Penitent and upon these terms which Christ makes necessary the Poor must have them as soon as the Rich and both freely But while your Church makes a meer Merchandize of them and grants them out to raise Money to enrich a Nephew to marry a Niece of the Popes or to aggrandize a Favourite and sends them into remote Countries to Men and Women whose Faces he never saw and of whose Penitence he hath no assurance we Protestants must look on them as a holy Cheat a hindrance of true Repentance and a trick to get Money Po. You are quite mistaken the Church designs nothing by these Indulgences but the Penitents Salvation the Money is a voluntary Offering and can you blame Holy Church for receiving the Oblations of the People Prot. It is no Crime to receive voluntary Oblations provided they be dispensed to the Poor But here is a certain Price set and the Money received goes in part to the Popes Coffers and in part to the wealthy Delegates or to rich Monasteries and it appears that Money is the main thing because Poor Men cannot get them nor will they give an Indulgence freely to the Indigent though never so penitent whereas the Rich that shew little signs of true Repentance may have them and are thereby hardned in their Sins Nor is it this Point alone but most of those disputed between us and you that are stiffly defended on your part because they advance the Wealth and Power of your Church Such is the Popes power to receive Appeals Images Relicks Saying Masses to deliver Souls Confession Pennances and two more not yet mentioned viz. Purgatory and the pretended Sanctity of your Religious Orders Po. 'T is not the Advantage we have by these Doctrines but the certain Truth of them which makes us so desirous you should believe them as appears in this Article of Purgatory which I shall prove first by Scripture and then by Reason to be a great Truth Prot. The Scripture declares very often and very plainly that there are two places of eternal Rewards and Punishments Heaven and Hell and if there be any Third place to which most Men are to go to suffer very great temporary Pains I doubt not but God hath revealed it as plainly and clearly as he hath done Heaven and Hell and therefore let me see you prove it by plain Texts of Holy Scripture Po. Our Saviour
saith The Sin against the Holy Ghost shall never be forgiven neither in this World nor in the World to come Math. xii 32. which plainly supposes some Sins not pardoned here may be forgiven there and that is one ground of Purgatory Prot. This is far from a clear Proof for here is no mention of Purgatory and this Phrase The World to come in the Gospel often signifies the Days of the Messiah Heb. xi 5. and vi 5. And the Jews expected that Messiah whom they believed as yet not come should pardon divers great Sins which could not be expiated by Legal Sacrifices and therefore Christ speaking to them in their own Phrase tells them This Sin against the Holy Ghost should never be pardoned under the Law nor under the Gospel But suppose this Phrase do signifie The next World Christ says not any other Sins shall be forgiven then but only that this Sin shall never be forgiven there nor here which is only a Phrase to set out it shall not be forgiven at all So Gen. xxxi 24. to speak neither good nor bad signifies to say nothing at all Po. Doth not S. Paul say Every Mans work shall be made manifest for the Day shall declare it because it shall be revealed by Fire and the Fire shall try every Mans work of what sort it is And a little after If a Mans work shall be burnt he shall suffer loss but he himself shall be saved yet so as by Fire 1 Cor. iii. 13 15. Is not this a clear Proof of Purgatory Fire Prot. This place speaks only of Teachers and the Persons are not to be burnt but their Works that is the False Doctrines which any of them teach and the whole place is Metaphorical and obscure and that last Phrase of being saved but so as by Fire is no more but a way of expressing a thing that shall be done with great difficulty Psal lxvi 12. Zech. iii. 2. So that you may as well pretend Sinners are in Purgatory here because we are commanded to save them with fear pulling them out of the Fire Jude ver 23. And if this place be to be understood Literally it must be referred to that Fire which shall burn all the World at the Day of Judgment which I have been told is that which the Fathers understand by the Day and the Fire here mentioned and so it hath no relation to Purgatory which you must either prove as we do Heaven and Hell from clearer places than this or we shall not believe it Po. We have S. Peter also on our side who tells us That Christ went by the Spirit to Preach to the Spirits in Prison which sometimes were disobedient when once the Long-suffering of God waited in the Days of Noah while the Ark was preparing wherein few that is eight Persons were saved by Water 1 Pet. iii. 19 20. Prot. This place is obscurer than any of the former and so very unfit to build an Article of Faith upon But the plainest Sense of it is That Christ by his Spirit in Noah did Preach to those Wicked ones before the Flood whose Souls and Spirits were as it were Imprisoned in their Bodies and those who were saved by this Preaching were but a few and those were saved by Water and not by Fire And as far as we can gather from this Text and 2 Pet. ii 3 5. these Persons who were Preached to remained disobedient and were not saved at all so that you have no shadow of ground to fix Purgatory on this place Po. What think you of that Prison into which if we be cast by God who is the Sinners Adversary they shall by no means come out thence till they have paid the uttermost Farthing Math. v. 26. Is not this Purgatory Prot. I think it is nothing to your purpose for Christ useth it as an Argument why we should Repent and make our Peace with God while we live whereas Purgatory gives Men pretences to put off their Repentance till Death and fills them with false Hopes to be delivered afterwards And out of this Prison there is no means to be delivered but by the Persons own satisfying the whole Debt whereas you think the Prayers and Alms of others may get Men out of Purgatory Nor doth the Text say that the Sufferer can pay the utmost Farthing but rather suppose it impossible and so his lying there till he pay the utmost Farthing must be meant of his lying in Hell for ever And Christ mentions Hell in that Chapter Ver. 22 29 30. But there is no word of Purgatory here or any where in Scripture and therefore pray try if you can prove it from Reason since Gods Word is not for you Po. Is there not great difference between some sins and others and if God be a Righteous Iudge he will make different punishments so that it is very reasonable to believe that Venial Sins shall only be punished with temporary fire not with eternal Flames Prot. If we consider the Holiness of the Law or the infiniteness of the Majesty offended all Sin even the least deserves Damnation as its just Wages Rom. vi 23. and the least Sin unrepented of may prove Mortal because it is not so much now under the Gospel the Sin as the final impenitence which Damns Men and he that will not repent shews he would Eternally Sin so that whatever the instance be he deserves Eternal Damnation Yet alas no Man that repents not fully while he lives is only guilty of these lesser Sins which in such persons never go alone they are always guilty of greater Sins which merit Eternal Flames And that place of S. John on which you ground your distinction of Mortal and Venial Sin speaks of the event of Mens Sins not of the nature of them So that if we see Men sin without any signs or hope of their Repentance he doth not oblige us to pray for such 1 John v. 16. Po. But is it not said that nothing which is unclean shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven Rev. xxi 27. Wherefore reason teacheth that they who are Defiled with any Sins even those that are Venial must be Purged e're they can come into the Kingdom of Heaven Prot. Surely poor Catholics are hardly used to pay so much Money and endure so many Pennances on pretence of purging away their Venial Sins and yet after all their Fastings Whipping and Pilgrimages their Absolutions Holy Water Alms and Extreme Unction still they are to endure a Torment as grievous though not as long as Hell Fire for these light Transgressions Besides we cannot imagine how Fire can purge a Soul unbodyed nor why Purgatory should be needful to cleanse us from some Sins when Scripture declares the Blood of Christ cleanseth us from all Sin 1 John i. 7. Or how Men who are to be Saved by Christ should be condemned to Purgatory when St. Paul saith There is no Condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus Rom. viii