Selected quad for the lemma: scripture_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
scripture_n	affirm_v	church_n	faith_n	2,551	5	5.0998	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A76258	Certamen religiosum or, a conference between His late Majestie Charles King of England, and Henry late Marquess and Earl of Worcester, concerning religion; at His Majesties being at Raglan Castle, 1646. Wherein the maine differences (now in controversie) between the Papists and the Protestants is no lesse briefly then accuratly discusss'd and bandied. Now published for the worlds satisfaction of His Majesties constant affection to the Protestant religion. By Tho: Baylie Doctor in Divinity and Sub-Deane of Wels.	Bayly, Thomas, d. 1657?; Charles I, King of England, 1600-1649.; Worcester, Henry Somerset, Marquis of, 1577-1646.	1649 (1649)	Wing B1506; Thomason E1355_1; ESTC R209153	85,962	251

you deny it we say his body is there you say there is nothing but bare bread we have Scripture for it Mat. 20. 26. Take eat this is my body so Luke 22. 19. This is my body which is given for you You say that the bread which we must eat in the Sacrament is but dead bread Christ saith that that bread is living bread you say how can this man give us his flesh to eat we say that that was the objection of Jewes and Infidels 1 John 6. 25. not of Christians and believers you say it was spoken figuratively we say it was spoken really revera or as we translate it indeed John 6. 55. But as the Jewes did so do ye first murmur that Christ should be bread John 6. 41. Secondly that that bread should be flesh John 6. 52. And thirdly that that flesh should be meat indeed John 6. 55. untill at last you cry out with the unbelievers this is a hard saying who can hear it John 6. 60. had this been but a figure certainly Christ would have removed the doubt when he saw them so offended at the reallity Joh. 6. 61. He would not have confirmed his saying in terminis with promise of a greater wonder John 6. 62. you may as well deny his incarnation his ascention and ask ●ow could the man come down from heaven and go up again if incomprehensibility should be sufficient to occasion such scruples in your breasts and that which is worse then naught you have made our Saviours conclusion an argument against the premises for where our Saviour tels them thus to argue according unto flesh and bloud in these words the flesh profiteth nothing and that if they will be enlivened in their understanding they must have faith to believe it in these words it is the Spirit that quickneth John 6. 63. They pervert our Saviours meaning into a contrary sense of their own imagination viz. the flesh profiteth nothing that is to say Christs body is not in the Sacrament but it the Spirit that quickneth that is to say we must onely believe that Christ dyed for us but not that his body is there as if there were any need of so many inculcations pressures offences mis-believings of and in a thing that were no more but a bare memoriall of a thing being a thing nothing more usuall with the Israelites as the twelve stones which were errected as a sign of the children of Israels passing over Jordan That when your children shall ask their Fathers what is meant thereby then ye shall answer them c. Josh 4. there would not have been so much difficulty in the belief if there had not been more in the mystery there would not have been so much offence taken at a memorandum nor so much stumbling at a figure The Fathers are of this opinion Saint Ignat. in Ep ad Smir. Saint Justin Apol 2. ad Antonium Saint Cyprian Ser. 4. de lapsis Saint Ambr. lib. 4. de Sacram. Saint Remigius c. affirm the flesh of Christ to be in the Sacrament and the same flesh which the word of God took in the Virgins wombe Secondly We hold tbat there is in the Church an infallible rule for understanding of Scripture besides the Scripture it self this you deny this we have Scripture for as Rom. 12 16. we must prophesie according to the rule of faith we are bid to walke according to this rule Gal. 6. 16. we must encrease our faith and preach the Gospel according to this rule 1 Cor. 10. 15 this rule of faith the holy Scriptures call a form of doctrine Romans 6. 17. a thing made ready to our hands 2. Cor. 10. 16. that we may not measure our selves by our selves 2 Cor. 10. 12. the depositions committed to the Churches trust 1 Tim. 6. 20. for avoiding of prophane and vain bablings and oppositions of sciences and by this rule of faith is not meant the holy Scriptures for that cannot do it as the Apostle tels us whilst there are unstable men who wrest this way and that way to their own destruction but it is the tradition of the Church and her exposition as it is delivered from hand to hand as most plainly appears 2 Tim. 2. 2. viz. The things which thou hast heard of us not received in writing from me or others among many witnesses the same commit thou to faithfull men who shall be able to teach it to others also Of this opinion are the Fathers Saint Irenaeus 4. chap. 45. Tertull de praescr and Vnicent lir in suo commentario saith It is very needfull in regard of so many errors proceeding from mis-interpretations of Scripture that the line of propheticall and Apostolicall exposition should be directed according to the rule of the Ecclesiasticall and Catholike sense and saith Tertullian praescript advers haeres chap. 11. We do not admit our adversaries to dispute out of Scripture till they can shew who their Ancestors were and from whom they received the Scriptures for the ordinary course of doctrine requires that the first question should be from whom and by whom and to whom the form of Christian Religion was delivered otherwise prescribing against him as a stranger for otherwise if a heathen should come by the Bible as the Eunuch came by the Prophesie of Esay and have no Philip to enterpret it unto him he would find out a Religion rather according to his own fancy then divine verritie In matters of faith Christ bids us to observe and doe whatsoever they bid us who fit in Moses seat Mat. 22. 2. therefore surely there is something more to be observed then only Scripture will you not as well believe what you hear Christ say as what ye hear his Ministers write you hear Christ when you hear them as well as you read Christ when you read his word He that heareth you heareth me Luke 10. 16. We say the Scriptures are not easie to be understood you say they are we have Scripture for it as is before manifested at large the Fathers say as much Saint Irenaeus lib. 2. chap. 47. Origen contr Cels and Saint Ambr. Epist 44. ad Constant calleth the Scripture a Sea and depth of propheticall riddles and Saint Hier. in praefat comment in Ephes and Saint Aug Epist 119. chap 21 saith The things of holy Scripture which I know not are more then those that I know and Saint Denis Bishop of Corinth cited by Eusebius lib. 7. hist. Eccles 20. saith of the Scriptures that the matter thereof was far more profound then his wit could reach We say that this Church cannot erre you say it can we have Scripture for what we say such Scripture that will tell you that fools cannot erre therein Esaiah 35. 8. such Scripture as will tell you if you neglect to hear it you shall be a heathen and a publican Mat. 18. 17. such Scripture as will tell you that this Church shall be unto Christ a glorious Church a Church that shall be

without spot or wrincle Ephesians 5. 27 such a Church as shall be enlivened for ever with his Spirit Isaiah 59 21 The Fathers affirm the same Saint Aug Contra Crescon lib 1. ca. 3. Saint Cypr Epist 55. ad Cornel. num 3. Saint Irenaeus lib 3. chap 4. Cum multis aljis We say the Church hath been alwaies visible you deny it we have Scripture for it Mat 5. 14 15 The light of the world a City upon a hill cannot be hid 2 Cor 4 3 Isaiah 22 The Fathers unanimously affirm the same Origen Hom 30 in Math That the Church is full of light even from the East to the West Saint Chrisost Hom 4 in 6 of Isaiah That it is easier for the Sun to be extinguished then the Church to be darkned Saint Aug tract in Joan cals them blind who do not see so great a mountain and St Cypr de Vnitate Ecclaesioe We hold the perpetuall universality of the Church and that the Church of Rome is such a Church you deny it we have Scripture for it Psalm 2. 8. Rom. 1. 8. the Fathers affirm as much Saint Cypr ep 57. writing to Cornelius Pope of Rome saith whilst with you there is one mind and one voice the whole Church is confessed to be the Romane Church Saint Aug. de unitate eccles chap. 4. saith who so communicates not with the whole corps of Christendome certain it is that they are not in the holy Catholike Church Saint Hier in apol ad Ruffin saith that it is all one to say the Roman faith and the Catholick We hold the unity of the Church to be necessary in all points of faith you deny it the severall articles of your Protestant Churches deny it we have Scripture for it Eph. 4. 5. One Lord one faith one Baptisme Acts 4. 35. 1 Cor. 1. 10. The Fathers are of that opinion Saint Aug. cont ep Par li. 3. chap. 5. Saint Cyp. li. de unitate ecclesiae nu 3. Saint Hyl. lib. ad constantium Augustum We hold that every Minister of the Church especially the supreme Minister or head thereof should be in a capacity of fungifying his office in preaching the Gospel administring the Sacraments baptizing marrying and not otherwise this we have Scripture for Heb. No man taketh this honour unto himself but he that is called of God as Aaron was this you deny not only so but you so deny it as that your Church hath maintained and practised it along time for a woman to be head or supreme moderatrix in the Church when you know that according to the word of God in this respect a woman is not only forbid to be the head of the man but to have a tongue in her head 1 Tim. 2. 11 12. 1 Cor. 14. 34. yet so hath this been denied by you that many have been hang'd drawn and quartered for not acknowledging it the Fathers are of our opinion herein Saint Damascen ser 1 Theod hist Ecclesi li 4 chap 28 Saint Ignat Epist ad Philodolph Saint Chyrsost hom 5. de verbis Isaiae We say that Christ gave commission to his Disciples to forgive sins you deny it and say that God only can forgive sinnes we have Scripture for it John 20. 23. Whosesoever sins ye remit they are remitted and whosesoever sinnes ye tetain they are retained and John 20. 21 As my Father hath sent me even so send I you and how was that viz. with so great power as to forgive sinnes Mat 9. 3. 8. where note that Saint Matthew doth not set down how that the people glorified God the Father who had given so great power unto God the Son but that he had given so great power unto men loco citato The Fathers are of our opinion S. Aug tract 49 in Joan Saint Chris de Sacerdotio li. 3. Saint Ambros li 3. de penitentia Saint Cyrill li 12 ca 50 saith It is not absurd to say that they should remit sinnes who have in them the Holy Ghost and Saint Basil li 5 cont Eunom proved the holy Ghost to be God so confuted his heresie because the holy Ghost forgave sins by the Apostles and Saint Irenaeus li 5. cap 13 so Saint Greg Hom 6 Evang We hold that we ought to confesse our sinnes unto our ghostly Father this ye deny saying that ye ought not to confesse your sinnes but unto God alone this we prove out of Scripture Mat 3 5 6. Then went out Jerusalem and all Judea and were baptized of him in Jordan confessing their sinnes this confession was no generall confession but in particular as appears Acts 19 18 19. And many that believed came and confessed and shewed their deeds The Fathers affirm the same Saint Irenaeus li 1. ca ● Tertull li de Paenitentia where he reprehendeth some who for humane shame fastness neglected to go to confession S Ambr sat to hear confession Amb Expaulsino S Clem Ep de fratr Dom Origen li. 3. Chrys li 3. de sacerd Saint Ambr urat in muliere peccatrice saith confesse freely to the Priest the hidden sins of thy soul We hold that men may doe works of supererogation this you deny This wee prove by Scripture Mat. 19. 12. viz. There be Eunuches which have made themselves Funuches for the Kingdome of heaven he that is able to receive it let him receive it this is more then a Commandment as Saint Aug. observes upon the place ser li. de temp for of precepts it is not said keep them who is able but keep them absolutely The Fathers are of this opinion Saint Amb. li. de viduis Orig in c. 15. ad Rom. Euseb 1. demonstrat chap. 8. Saint Chrys hom 8. de act paenit Saint Greg nicen 15. Moral chap. 5. We say we have free will you deny it we prove we have out of Scripture viz. 1 Cor. 17. He that standeth stedfast in his heart having no necessity but hath power over his own will and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin doth well Deut. 30. 11. I have set before you life and death blessing and cursing chuse life that thou and thy seed may live and Christ himself said O Jerusalem Jerusalem how often would I have gathered thy children together as a Hen gathers her Chicken yee would not where Christ would and they would not there might have been a willingnesse as well as a willing or else Christ had wept in vain and to thinke that he did so were to make him an imposture The antient Fathers are of our opinion Euseb Caesar de praep li. 1. c. 7. Saint Hilde Trin Saint Aug li. 1. ad Simp q. 4. Saint Ambr in Luc chap 12. Saint Chrys hom 19. in Gen Irenaeus li 4. ca. 72 Saint Cyril li. 4. in Joan in cap 7. c. We hold it possible to keep the Commandments you say it is impossible we have Scripture for it Luk 1 6 And they were both righteous before God walking in all the

thy Covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is water by this pit could not be meant the place of the damned for they have no share in the Covenant neither are they Christs prisoners but the devils neither could this pit be the grave because Christs grave was a new pit where never any was laid before The Fathers affirm as much Saint Hier in 4. ad Ephes Saint Greg. li. 13. Moral ca. 20. Saint Aug. in Psal 3. 7. v. 1. We hold purgatory fire where satisfaction shall be made for sinnes after death you deny it we have Scripture for it 1 Gor 3. 13. 15. The fire shall try every mans work of what sort it is if any mans work shall de burnt he shall suffer losse but he himselfe shall be saved yet so as by fire Saint Aug so interprets this place upon the 37. Psalme also Saint Amb upon 1 Cor 3. and Ser 20. in Ps 118. Saint Hier lib. 2. chap 13. ad vers Joan Saint Greg li 4. dialog ca 39. Orig. hom 6. in ca 15. Exod. Lastly We hold extream Vnction to be a Sacrament you neither hold it be a Sacrament neither doe you practise it as a duty we have Scripture for it James 5. 13. Is any sick among you let him call the Elders of the Church and let them pray over him annointing him with oyle in the name of the Lord and the prayer of faith shall save the sick and the Lord shall raise him up and if he have committed sins they shall be forgiven him Neither any nor all the Sacraments were or could be more effectual mens good nor more substantiall in matter nor more exquisite in forme nor more punctuall in designation of its ministry other Sacraments being bounded within the limits of the souls only good this extends it self to the good both of soul and body he shall recover from his sicknesse and his sins shall be forgiven him and yet it is both left out in your practise and acknowledgment The Fathers are on our side Orig Hom 2. in Levit S. Chrys lib 3. de Sacerd S. Aug in speculo Ser 215. de temp Vener Bed in 6. Marke and S. James and many others Thus most Sacred SIR we have no reason to wave the Scriptures umpirage so that you will hear it speake in the mother language and not produce it as a witnesse on your side when the producers tell us nothing but their owne meaning in a language unknown to all the former ages and then tell us that shee saith so and they will have it so because he that hath a Bible and a sword shall carry away the meaning from him that hath a Bible and ne're a sword nor is it more blasphemy to say that the Scripture is the Churches off-spring because it is the word of God then it is for me to say I am the sonne of such a man because God made me instrumentally I am so and so was shee for as saith S. Aug Evangelio non crederem nisi me Ecclesiae authoritas commoveret I should not believe the Gospel it self unlesse I were moved by the authority of the Church There was a Church before there was a Scripture take which Testament you please We grant you that the Scripture is the Originall of all light yet we see light before we see the Sun and we know there was a light when there was no Sun the one is but the body of the other We grant you the Scriptures to be the Celestiall globe but we must not grant you that every one knowes how to use it or that it is necessary or possible they should We grant that the Scripture is a light to our feet and a lanthorne to our paths then you must grant me that it is requisite that we have a guide or else we may lose our way in the light as well as in the darke We grant you that it is the food of our souls yet there must be some body that must divide or break the bread We grant you that it is the only antidote against the infection of the Devil yet it is not every ones profession to be a compounder of the ingredients We grant Your Majesty the Scripture to be the only sword and buckler to defend a Church from her Ghostly enemies yet I hope you will not have the glorious company of the Apostles and the goodly fellow ship of the Prophets to exclude the noble Army of Martyrs and the holy Church which through all the world doth acknowledge Christ wherefore having shewen Your Majesty how much the Scriptures are ours I shall now consider Your opinions apart from us and see how they are Yours and who sides with You in Your opinion besides Your selfe and first I shall crave the boldnesse to begin with the Protestants of the Church of England The Church of England WHose Religion as it is in opposition to ours consists altogether in denying for what she affirmes we affirme the same as the Real presence the infallibility visibility universality and unity of the Courch confession and remission of sins free-will and possibility of keeping the Commandments c. all these things you deny and you may as well deny the blessed Trinity for we have no such word in Scripture only inference then that which ye have already denied and for which we have plaine Scripture Fathers Councels practise of the Church Whereas matters of so weighty concernment as delivering of mens souls into the Devils hands should not be executed but upon mature deliberation and immergent occasions and not by any but those who have the undoubted authority lest otherwise you make the authority it self to be doubted of that which ye hold positive in your discipline is more erroneous then that which is negative in our Doctrine as your maintaining a woman to be Head Supreame or Moderatrix in the Church who by the Apostles rule is not to speak in the Church or that a Lay-man may be so what Scripture or Fathers or custome have ye for this or that a Lay-man as your Lay-Chancellours should Excommunicate and deliver up soules to Sathan a strange Religion whose Ministers are deny'd the power of remitting sins whilst Lay-men are admitted to the power of retaining them and that upon every ordinary occasion as non-payment of fees and the like Whereas such practises as these have rendred the rod of Aaron no more formidable then a reed shaken with the wind so that you have brought it to this that whilst such men as these were permitted to excommunicate for a three-peny matter the people made not a three-peny matter of their Evcommunication The Church of Saxony NOw for the Church of Saxony you shall find Luther a man not only obtruding new Doctrine upon his Disciples without Scripture or contrary to Scripture but also Doctrine denying Scripture to be Scripture and vilipending those books of Scripture which were received into the Canon and acknowledged to be

themselves lesse obnoxious to error either in life or doctrine more to be preferred then any or all the world besides one of them betraies his Saviour another denies him all forsake him They thought Christs Kingdome to have been of this world and a promise only unto the Jewes and not unto the Gentiles and this after the resurrection They wondred that the holy Ghost should fall upon the Gentiles Saint John twice worshipped the Angel and was rebuked for it Apoc. 22. 8. Saint Paul saw how Peter walked not uprightly according to the truth of the Gospel Gal. 2. 14. Not only Peter but other of the Apostles were ignorant how the word of God was to be preached unto the Gentiles But who then shall rowl away the stone from the mouth of the monument Who shall expound the Scriptures to us one puls one way and another another by whom shall we be directed Scinditur incertum studia in contraria vulgus You that cry up the Fathers the Fathers so much shall hear how the Fathers do tell us that the Scriptures are their own interpreters Irenaeus who was scholler to Policarpus that was schollar to Saint John lib. 3. ca. 12. thus saith Ostentiones quae sunt in Scripturis non possunt ostendi nisi ex ipsis Scripturis the evidences which are in Scripture cannot be manifested but out of the same Scripture Clemeus Alexandinus Nos ex ipsis deipsis Scripturis perfecte demonstrantes ex fide persuademus demonstrative Strom. li. 7. Out of the Scriptures themselves from the same Scriptures perfectly demonstrating doe we draw demonstrative perswasions from faith Crysost Sacra Scriptura seipsam exponit auditorem errare non sinit Basilius Magnus Quae ambigue quae obscure videntur dici in quibusdam locis sacrae Scripturae ab ijs quae in alijs locis aperta perspicua sunt explicantur Hom 13. in Gen. Those things which may seem to be ambiguous and obsure in certain places of the holy Scripture must be explicated from those places which else-where are plain and manifest Augustinus Ille qui cor habet Questionū asceticarū secundum eptt regula tre cen●ssi ema sexagessima quod precisum est jungat Scripturae legat superiora vel inferiora et in veniet sensum Let him who hath a precise heart joyne it unto the Scriptures and let him observe what goes before and that which follows after and he shall find out the sense Gregorius saith Ser. 49. De verbis Domini Per Scripturam loquitur deus omne quod vult et voluntas dei sicut in testamento sic in evangelio inquiratur By Scripture God speaks his whole mind and the will of God as in the old Testament so in the new is to be found out Optatus contra parmenonem lib. 5. Num quis aequior arbiter veritatis divinae quam deus out ubi deus manifestius loquitur quam in verbo suo Is there a better judge of the divine verity then God himselfe or where dorh God more manifestly declare himself then in his own word What breath shall we believe then but that which is the breath of God the holy Scriptures for it seems all one to Saint Paul to say dicit Sriptura the Scripture saith Rom. 4. 3. and dicit Deus the Lord saith Rom. 9. 17. The Scripture hath concluded all under sin Gallathians 3. 22. for that which Romans 11. 32. he saith God hath concluded all c. how shall we otherwise conclude then but with the Apostle 1 Cor. 2. 12. we have received not the spirit of the world but the spirit which is of God that we might know the things that are freely given unto us of God They who know not this spirit do deride it but this spirit is the hidden Manna Apo. 2. 17. which God giveth them to eat who shall overcome it is the white stone wherein the new name is written which no man knoweth but he that received it Wherefore we see the Scripture is the rule by which all difference may be composed it is the light wherein we must walk the food of our souls an antidote that expels any infection the only sword that kils the enemy the only plaster that can cure our wounds and the only documents that can be given towards the attainment of ever lasting salvation The Marquesses reply to the Kings Paper May it please your most excellent Majestie YOur Majestie is pleased to wave all the marks of the true Church and to make recourse unto the Scriptures I humbly take leave to ask Your Majestie what heretique that ever was did not do so How shall the greatest heretique in the world be confuted or censured if any man may be permitted to appeal to Scriptures margind with his own notes senc'd with his own meaning and enlivened with his own private spirit to what end were those marks so fully both by the Prophets the Apostles and our Saviour himself set down if we make no use of them To what use are land marks set up if Marriners will not believe them to be such Yet notwithstanding after that I have said what I have to say in removall of certain obstacles that lie in the way I shall lead your Majesty to my Church through the full body of the Scriptures or not at all and then I shall leave it to your royall heart to judge when you shall see that we have Scripture on our side whether or no the interpretation thereof be likelier to be true that hath been adjudged so by Councels renowned Fathers famous for sanstity and holinesse of life continued for the space of a thousand or twelve hundred years by your own confession universally acknowledged or that such a one as Luther his word shall be taken either without Scripture or against it with sic volo and sic Jubeo a man who confessed himself that he received his doctrine from the Devil or such a one as Calvin and their associates notoriously infamous in their lives conversations plain rebels to their Moses and Aaron united to the same person should counter-ballance al the worthies deterninations of Councels the continued practices which so many ages produced If your Majesty means by the Church all the professors of the Gospel all that are Christians are so the true Church then we are so in your own sense and you in ours then none who believe in the blessed Trinity the articles of the Creed none who deny the Scriptures to be the word of God let them consture them as they please can be hereticall or of a wrong Religion therefore we must contradistinguish them thus and by the Protestant Church and Religion we must understand those opinions which the Protestants hold contrary to the Church of Rome and by the Romane the opinions which they hold dissenting from the Protestant and then we will see whether we have Scripture for our religion or not and whether you have Scripture for what you maintain

Commandments and Ordinances of the Lord blamelesse and 1 John 5 3 His Commandments are not grievious The Fathers are for us Orig Hom 9 in Josue Saint Cyril li 4 Cont Julian Saint Hyl in Psal 118 Saint Hier l. 3 cont pelag Saint Basil We say faith cannot justify without works yee say good works are not absolutely necessary to salvation we have Scripture for what we say 1 Cor 13 2 Though I have all faith and have no charity I am nothing and James 2 24 By works a man is justified and not by faith only This opinion of yours Saint Aug li de fide oper ca 14 saith was an old heresie in the Apostles time and in the preface of his Comment upon the 32 Psal he cals it the right way to hell and damnation See Orig in 5. to the Rom Saint S. Hillar chap. 7. in Mat S. Amb 4. ad Heb c. We hold good workes to be meritorious you deny it we have Scripture for it Mat. 6. 27. He shall reward every man according to his workes Mat. 5. 12. Great is your reward in heaven Reward at the end presupposes merit in the worke the distinction of secundum and propter opera is too nice to make such a division in the Church The Fathers were of our opinion S. Amb de Apolog David ca. 6. S. Hier lib. 3. Cont Pelag S. Aug de Spiritu lit cap. ult and divers others We hold that faith once had may be lost if we have not care to preserve it You say it cannot we have Scripture for it viz. Luke 8. 13. They on the rock are they which when they hear receive the word with joy which for a while believe and in time of temptation fall away So 1 Tim. 1. 18 19. Which some having put away have made shipwrack of their faith This is frequently affirmed amongst the Fathers See S. Aug de gratia lib arbit de correp gratia ad articulos We hold that God did never inevitably damn any man before he was born or as you say from all eternity you say he did we have Scripture for what we say Wis 1. 13. God made not death neither hath he pleasure in the destruction of the living 1 Tim 2. 34. God our Saviour who will have all men to be saved 2 Pet 3. 9. The Lord is not willing that any should die but that all should come to repentance and if you will not believe wben he saies so believe him when he swears it As I live saith the Lord I do not delight in the death of a sinner The Fathers are of our opinion Saint Aug li 1. Civit Dei Tertul Orat ca 8. Saint Cypr lib 4. Epist 2. and Saint Amb lib 2. de Cani Abel We hold that no man ought infallibly to assure himself of his salvation you say he ought the Scripture saith we ought not 1 Cor 9. 27. S. Paul was not assured but that whilst he preached unto others he himselfe might become a cast-away Rom 11. 20. Thou standest in the faith be not high minded but fear c. least thou also maist be cut off Phil 2. 12. Worke out your salvation with fear and trembling The Fathers are of our opinion Amb Ser 5. in Psal 118. S. Basil in Constil Monast chap 2. S. Hier li 2. Advers Pelagian S. Chrysost Hom 87. in Joan S. Aug in Psa 40. S. Bernard Ser 3. de Advent and Ser 1. de Sept saith Who can say I am of the Elect We say that every man hath an Angel guardian you say he hath not we have Scripture for it viz. Mat 18. 10. Take heed that ye dispise not one of these little ones for I say unto you that in heaven there Angels doe alwayes behold the face of my Father Acts 12. 13. S. Peter knocking at the door they say it is his Angel they believed this in the Apostles time the Fathers believed it along S. Greg Dial li 4. cap 58. S. Athanas de Communi Essentia S. Chrys Hom 2. in Ep ad Collos lib 6. de Sacer Greg Turonens lib de gloria Martyr S. Aug Ep ad Prabam cap. 19. and S. Jer upon these words Their Angels Mat. 17. 10. cals it a great dignity which every one hath from his Nativity We say the Angels pray for us knowing our thoughts and deeds you deny it we have Scripture for it Zach 1 9 10 11 12. Then the Angel of the Lord answered and said O Lord of Hosts how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the Cities of Judah against whom thou hast had indignation these theescore and ten years Apoc 8. 4. And the smoake of the incense of the prayers of the Saints ascended from the hand of the Angel before the Lord. This place was so understood by Irenaeus li 4. cap 34. and S. Hilary in Psal 129. tels us This intercession of Angels Gods nature needeth not but our infirmities do So S. Amb lib de viduis Victor utic lib 3. de persecutione vandalorum We hold it lawfull to pray unto them you not we have Scripture for it Gen 48. 16. The Angel which redeemed me from all evill blesse these lads c. Hosea 12. 4. He had power over the Angel and prevailed he wept and made supplications unto them Saint Augustine expounding these words of Job 19. 21. Have pitty upon me O ye my friends for the hand of the Lord is upon me saith that holy Job addressed himself to the Angels We hold that the Saints deceased know what passeth here on earth you say they know not we have Scripture for it Luke 16. 29. where Abraham knew that there were Moses and the Prophets Books here on earth which he himselfe had never seen when he was alive The Fathers say as much Euseb Ser de Ann S. Hier in Epit Paulae S. Maxim Ser de S. Agnete We say they pray for us you not we have Scripture for it Apoc 5. 8. The twenty four Elders fell downe before the Lambe having every one of them Harpes and golden Viols full of odours which are the prayers of the Saints Baruch 3. 4. O Lord Almighty thou God of Israel hear now the prayers of the dead Israelites The Fathers were of this opinion S. Aug Ser 15. de verbis Apist S. Hilar in Psa 129. S. Damas lib 4. de fide cap 16. We hold that we may pray to them you not we have Scripture for it Luke 16. 24. Father Abraham have mercy on me and send Lazarus c. You bid us shew one proof for the lawfulness hereof when here are two Saints pray'd unto in one verse and though Dives were in Hell yet Abraham in Heaven would not have expostulated with him so much without a non nobis domine if it had been in it self a thing not lawfull You will say it is a parable yet a jury of ten Fathers of the grand inquest as Theophil Tertul Clem Alex S. Chrys

in Jul. orat 2. wax tapers in sign of joy for the certainty of their future resurrection The Church then had the picture of Christ and of his Saints both x Euseb de Vita Const out of Churches y Paulin Epist 12. Basil in Martyr Bar and in them and upon the very z Prudent in S. Cassian Altars not to adore them with God like worship but by them to reverence the Souldiers and Champions of Christ The faithfull then used the a Tert de coron milit sign of the cross in all their Conversations b Cyril Cont. J●l l 6. painted it on the portal of all the houses of the faithfull c Hier in Vit. Hil. gave their blessing to the people with their hand by the sign of the cross d Athan cont Idol imployed it to drive away evil spirits e Paul Ep 11. proposed in Jerusalem the very cross to be adored on good fryday Finally the Church held then f Tert de praescrip Iren. l. 3. c. 3. l. 4. c. 32. that to the Catholick Church onely belongs the keeping of the Apostolicall tradition the Authority of interpretation of Scripture and the decision of Controversies of faith and that out of the succession g Cypr de unit Eceles Conc Car 4. c. 1. of her communion of h Hier Cont Lucif Aug de util cred c. 8. her Doctrine i Cypr ad pub Ep 63. ad mag Ep 67. Hier. ad Tit c. 3. and her ministery there was neither Church nor Salvation Neither will I insist with you only upon the word then but before and before and before that even to the first age of all will I shew you our doctrine of the reall presence and holy Sacrifice of the Masse Invocation of Saints Veneration of Reliques and Images Confession and Priestly absolution Purgatory and prayer for the dead Traditions c. In the fift Age or hundred of years Saint Augustine was for the reall and corporall presence a Aug Conc 1. in Psall 33. In the fourth Age Saint Ambrose b Lib 4. de Sacra In the third Age S. Cyprian c 5. and l. de iis qui misteriis initiantur c. 9. c Serm de Coena Dom. prope init In the second Age or hundred of years S. Irenaeus d l. 4. c. 32. infin And in the first Age e Ep ad smirnum u● cit a Theod Dial 3. S. Ignatius Martyr and disciple of St. John the Evangilist Concerning the honour and invocation of Saints In the fifth age we find S. Augustine f Serm. de Verb Apost prope init medit c. 40. li. de loquutionibus in gen prope finem praying to the Virgin Mary and other Saints In the fourth age we find Greg. Naz. praying to S. Basil the great g In Orat 20. quae est in laudem Basil mag And St. Hier Cont Vigil 13. initio In the third age we find S. Origin praying to Father Abraham h Initio sui lamenti In the second age Justin Martyr i Apol 2. ad Anton pium Imper non longe ab initio And in the first age in the Liturgy of S. James the lesse k Ange Med. For the use and veneration of holy Reliques and Images and chiefly of the Holy Cross In the fifth age Saint Augustine l Tract 118. in Joan fine In the fourth age Athanasius m Ad Antiochum principem In the third age Brigin n Hom 8. in diversos Evangelij locos In the second age S. Justin Martyr o Ad quaest 28. Gentilium And in the first age St. Ignatius p Epist ad Phil ante Med. Concerning Confession and Absolutions In the fifth age St. August q Hom 49. ante Med. In the fourth age S. Basil the great r Sui regulis brevior interr 288. In the third age St. Cypr. ſ Serm de lapsis In the second age Tertull. t l. de poenit c. 10. And in the first age St. Clement u Clement Ro Epist 1. Now concerning Purgatory and Prayer for the dead in the fifth age St. Augustin a De Civit. Dei li 26. c. 24. and also Ser. 41. de sanct prope init also Serm. 22. de Verb Apost In the foutrh age St. Ambrose b Ambr. in 1. Cor 3. S. Hier. in Com. in cap. 11. proverb In the third age St. Cypr. c Epist 5. ad Anton post med In the second age Tertull. d li de animae c. 58. de Corona milit c. 3. 4. And in the first age St. Clement l Clem Ro Ep 1. de S Petr prope fin Concerning Traditions in the fifth age St. Augustin f l. 4. de bapt Con. Dona●… c. 24. In the fourth age St. Basil g li de Sp Sancto c. 27. In the third age St. Epiphanius h Heref 61. In the second age St. Irenaeus i li 3. c. 4. And in the first age St. Dennis k Areopag c. 1. Eccles Hierar Now suppose that all these quotations be right The saving of a soul of your own soul of the soul of a King of the souls of so many Kingdomes and the gaining of that Kingdom for a reward which in Comparison of these earthly ones for which you so often fight somuch strive and labour so much for to obtaine your tetrarchate would be a gain for you to lose it so that you might but obtain that would be worth the search and when you have found them to be truly cited I dare trust your judgement that it will tell you that we have not changed our Countenance nor fled our Colours nor fallen away nor altered our Religion nor forsaken our first love nor denied our principles nor brought novelties into the Church but that we do antiquum obtinere whereby we should be forsaken of you for forsaking our selves but rather that we should winne you unto us by being still the same we were when we wonne you first unto us and were at the beginning And is it for the honour of the English Nation famous for the first Christian King and the first Christian Emperour to forsake her mother Church so renowned for antiquitie and to annex their Religion as a codicell to an appeale of a company of Protesters against a decree at Spira and to forsake so glorious a name as Catholick and to take a name upon them wherein they had neither right nor interest and then to take measure of the Scotish Discipline for the new fashion of their souls and to make to themselves posies of the weedings of that Garden into which Christ himself came down a Cant. 6. 1. upon which both the north and south-winds do blow b Cant. 4. 16. in which is a well of living waters and streams from Lebanon c Cant. 4 15. about which is an