they mighte bee permitted to haue still the Gospels the Epistles and the Creede in their vulgare tongue iâ— which peticion they affirmed that in the Sclauon language it had beene vsed of old in the Church and likewise in their owne kingdome Charles the great called fiue councels namely at Mentze Rome Remes Cabilon and Arelate also decreed that onely the canonicall bookes of the Scripture shoulde be reade in the Church and none other as it was decreed long before in the councell holden at Carthage He â—ame one of them in the whole Church eiâ—her erected for your faith Church and serâ—ice or not prepared for all sortes for cathoâ—ke practises proue to me that it was done â—or any other seruice and religion then ours â—r that they be monuments of any other faith â—r church then that common knowne cathoâ—cke church And I recant Answeare 9. WHereas you demaund What furniture our Congregation euer â—ad c. I must needes tell you that either â—he hauing of such furniture or the want â—hereof are but weake feble argumentes â— proue the true Church of God by In â—utwarde pompe in superfluous ornaâ—ents in vnnecessarie toyes in vaine decâ—ing of your Churches with gold and silâ—er and other precious and costly attire in â—nprofitable rites in furnishinge your â—mples with abhominable idols in pleaâ—ng the eare in delightinge the eye in â—uginge in roaring in toying in trifâ—ng in nodding in becking in ducking â— all such heathenishe shewes and sensles significations wee thinke your Romishâ— Church excelled all idolatrous Ethnicks before and therefore in such superstitiouâ— trifles wee will not compare with you but willingly geue vnto you the preheminence because they be not signes of true religion but badges of Antichriste and furniture to deck the whore of Rome withall For all such kind of trumperie be her very markes As these was none of these toyes in the primitiue Churche neither in anie true reformed Churche sithence that â—â—ine â–ª so there was no Churches vntill the time of Constantine the great who builded churches and moued others to doe the like for the people of God to repaire vnto for to heare the worde of God truly preached to receiue the Sacramentes faithfully ministred according to Christes institution for the same vse and purpose we haue builded Churches and doe continually repaire and reedifie suche as be decayed and â—uâ—nous But vnto the time of Constantine the Christians were violentely and extremelie put to death and persecuted of tyrantes hauing no publike places to resorte vnto but priuately assembled themselues sometimes in dwelling houses sometimes in hollowe caues and dennes â—or feare of the cruel bloudie torments Laurentius Valla saith that in times past before the raigne of Constantine the greate the Christians had no temples but secrete and close places holie little houses but no great and gorgeous buildinges chappelles no Churches oratories within priuate walles no publike and open Churches For your chalices I will onelie vse the saying of Pope Boniface In time past saith he golden Byshoppes vsed woodden chalices but now wodden Byshopps vse golden chalices In like manner in Constantine his time there were no altars of lime stone but communion tables of wood and a long time after as it may easilie be proued by auncient writers Athanasius writeth That the ArriaÌ„ Heretikes in their furie and their rage did carrie foorth and burne the seates the pulpettes the wodden table and boorde and suche other thinges as they coulde gett out of Christian Churches S. Augustine writeth the same of the Donatistes Concerning your vestimentes your catholike practises and all your trumperies and beggerly Ceremonies for which you haue no warrant in Gods booke we way not one rushe Wee hould vs contented with that which Christ our sauior his Apostles and other catholik godly Fathers vsed Did not our sauiour Christ I pray you minister his last supper vnto his Apostles at the table without any further ceremonie euen as the Apostles all true Christians haue done euer more â–ª whose example the Lord grauÌ„t vs to folow Papist 10 I Aske of them whether the Lutherans Zwinglians Illirians Caluinists Confessionists Zwingfeldians Anabaptists and such like be all of one church And if either they can proue vnto me that these being of such diuersitie in faith and religion make one church or that eche of these sectes may giue saluation to their folowers being so disagreable one with the other in high points of our religion or that I should beleeue all these rather then the catholike church or one of these more then an other all makinge such a bould chaleÌ„ge for the truth Gospel Let the protestants of all these conferr together shew me of these things and with all amoÌ„g them selues agree to what sort of these sectes they would haue me I recant Answeare 10 I Do merueile greatly that you impute vnto our religion the heresies of the Anabaptists Swingfeldians seing that wee doe not in our daily sermons inueigh against their blasphemous errours but also haue written sundry bookes to confute the the same You doe aske a verie hard difficult questioÌ„ which you do vtter either for want of wit or lacke of knowledge to wit Whether Caluin c. were of one Churche whether they gaue saluatioÌ„ to their followers It is not in man precisely to define who is of Gods Church for that they only be of Gods inuisible church Whome God hath elected vnto saluation in his sonne Christ before the fouÌ„datioÌ„ of the world was layd God only doth knowe who are his But it may be that you vnderstand it of the visible church then I will aunswere you accordingly that we are certainly persuaded that they were Gods children and that they ended their life and closed vp their eyes in the true faith of Christe doe rest now in Gods Kingdom Where you seeme to charg them with manifold scismes diuersitie of iudgmentes the truth is that they agreed in all points with the scriptures sauing that Luther in the real presence dissented from the rest which heresie as I haue noted before he receiued of your church of Rome I would not haue you to thinke that we ground our faith and religion or repose any part of our saluation vpon any particular Church or Councel or vpon any mortall man as you do We receiue mens iudgments and writings as they are men and so may erre And so the godly Fathers in times past were reputed and taken S Augustine hath these woordes Wee ought not sayth he to accept the disputations writings of any one be they neuer so Catholik and prayse worthie as we do receiue the canonicall scriptures but that sauinge their reuerence due vnto them we may well finde fault with or reiect some thinges in their writinges if it happen we finde they haue otherwise thought then the truth may beare them so am I in
thy heade meaning thâ— woman Which text the Louanistes woulâ— seeme to reforme do put in ipse referring it to Christ You may see into what miseries you woulde bring vs to haue vs to beleue that the Virgin Marie should brusâ— the Serpents head whereas the words are to be vnderstanded of the seede of the woman Likewise in the Epistle vnto the Corinthians your olde translation hath these wordes Omnes quideÌ„ resurgemus â–ª sed non omnes imutabimur Wee shall all rise againe but wee shall not all be changed Which words be vntruely translated for all shall not rise againe because that at Christes comming some shall be founde aliue yet neuerthelesse All must be chaunged and this corruptible flesh must put on corruptioÌ„ But you wil perhaps say that the fault is not in the translation but in the Printer Why then hath your Church suffered the same translation to haue beene printed so often and hath not corrected these faultes Nay why with your Tridentine generall councell precisely say Let no man be so bolde or presume by any manner of colour to refuse the old common translation of the Bible To conclude you persuade the world if you haue authoritie not onely to allowe what translation ye list but also as your owne Canonistes doe auouch that the Pope the heade of your Church can at 〈◊〉 pleasure dispense against the Lawe of God against the Lawe of nature against the Apostles against all the commaundements of the olde and newe Testament That hee is Christes Lieftetenaunt not onely ouer thinges in heauen ouer thinges in earth and ouer things â—â— hell but also ouer the angels both good and badde whereas the true Church of God hath not at any time made her selfe â—â—udge ouer the worde and lawe of God 〈◊〉 alwaies hath vsed subiection vnto the â—â—â—e grounding all her religion and faith â—â—on the same worde And this you must needes confesse vnlesse you will denie a knowen trueth that we whose religion you doe so vehemently withstande haue alwayes perswaded the people not to beleeue vs one iotte further then we bring the woorde of God for our warrant And whereas you further enquire what Church hath had the custodie of the Bible and hath most safely preserued it I must needes say that God of his singuler mercie towardes his Churche by his diuine prouidence hath alwayes preserued his woorde to the comforte of his children as he preserued Elias in the wildernesse Daniel in the Lions denne the three children in the fornace Howe I pray you hath the Byble bene preserued by your Churche sith the whole worlde can testifie howe you haue burned the olde and newe Testament whiche thing is yet freshe in mans memorieâ— Did not Cutbert Tunstall being then Bishop of London cause the newe Testament to be burned at Pawles crosse in London as your Churche learned of Iehoakim king of Iuda who threw the boke which the Prophete Ieremie by Goddes commaundement had indited conteining the wrath of God against Iuda into the fier But you will say the Testamentes were falselie and vntrulie translated and therefore were burned If that had beene the cause it had bene your partes rather to haue disclosed and quoated forth the erroures and to haue amended the faultes Doeth the mother cast away the milke wherewith the children shoulde be nourished for that sometimes motes doe fall into it but rather culleth forth the moates giueth the Milke to the children euen so you ought to haue done What faultes were I beseech you in that translation you neuer noted anie if there had bene as indeede there were none why haue not you set forth a better what doctour of your Churche or fauorer of your Romishe Religion hath written in whose workes can not be found some errour yet we burned them not but are content to giue them the readinge and do reuerence them so farre as they agree with Gods truthe Further if â—n Angell should speake or write we ought not to beleue him Iudge you nowe laying away all affection whether your Church â—â— ours doe better esteme of the Bible or â—â— the better preserue the same Papist SHew me why our common knowen church did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament as the true religion contained in the same Shewe me why she kepte not as trulie and as faithfully the true sense of Gods woorde as she preserued the worde it selfe Shewe me why we shoulde beleeue the Papistes as ye tearme them for the worde it selfe and yet we shoulde beleeue you Protestantes for the meaning of the worde rather than them Shewe me why you beleeued our Churche telling you this to be Gods booke and will not credite her aduouching this to be the true and vndoubted sense of the same booke and last of all shewe me why you beleeued the elder knowen Churche affirming this to be the word and doe not beleeue her affirming Luther to be an Heretike Shewe me good reason or Scripture for these poyntes and I recant Answeare YF you meane by your common knowen Churche the Churche of Rome as you will easily assent therevnto then your Church is more common than true For triall whereof it is plaine and that by Saint Barnarde that the pastoures of your Churche of Rome keepe not the spouse of God whiche is his Churche but they destroy her They keepe not the flock but they kill and deuoure And one whiche writeth of your Church in that great and solemne assemblie at Constance saieth They did quenche the spirite they did dispise the voice of the prophetes they persecuted Christ in his members and it was altogether a persecuting churche Barnard in an other place likewise crieth out O miserable Rome which in the time of our Elders hast brought foorth the lightes of worthie Fathers but in our dayes hast brought forth the monstruous darkenes shamefull and slanderous to the time to come An other calleth Rome a schoole of errour a temple of heresie And your old friend Thomas Becket whome you haue canonized for a Saint saith Our holy mother of Rome is become an harlot and hath prostituted her self that is hath set her selfe open to euerie man for reward And what neede we goe farre one of your owne nest in the late councell of Trent sheweth his iudgement of your Churche of Rome They haue brought to passe saieth he that godlinesse is turned into hypocrisie and that the sauoure of life is turned into the sauour of death Woulde to GOD they were not gone with one generall consent from religion to superstition from faith to infidelitie from Christ to Antichrist from God to Epicure saying with wicked heartes and filthie mouthes there is no god Truth seketh not to be shrouded in corners I haue noted before a fewe places amongst many in which you haue corrupted the text of the Byble You seeme to vrge this matter instantly that your Church hath kept and
Church of God by as though Christes Church shoulde bee alwayes knowne and disceened by outwarde offices and functions I haue shewed before at large that the true church of God might be so hiddeÌ„ the tâ—ue religion so suppressed that it might in mans iudgement seeme that god had no church at al or else a very smal Church â–ª yet neuerthelesse God hath from time to time sent some Moses some Elias some Ieremie some Baruch or some one or other to represent his true Church to publish his true law gospel to waken the people from sinne that the world might thereby be without al excuse as I haue named some whiche liued in the time of ignorance which diligently preached the Gospell and reprooued the idolatries of your Church There was moreouer certaine godly preachers in Sueuia in the yeare of our Lorde 1240. which preached against the Pope affirming his authoritie to be vsurped and the doctrine of the Churche of Rome to bee corrupt Arnoldus de noua villa a Spanyarde complained that Sathan had seduced the world by your Church of Rome from the truth of Iesu Christ and said That there ought to be no sacrifice for the deade Which your Churche earnestly mainteineth At Brugis were 36. citezens of Moguntia burned for the doctrine of Christ affirming the Pope to be Antichrist Militius a Bohemian a famous and godlie Preacher inueighed against the Churche of Rome saying That Antichrist was alreadie placed Marcilius Patauius Gulielmus Ockam Iohannes Gandauensis Luitpoldus Andraeas Laudensis Aligerius Gregorius Arminensis Andraeas de castro Buridianus mainteined all the Gospell against the Popes proceedinges Dante 's an Italian writer in his booke called The canticle of Purgatory declareth the Pope to be the whore of Babylon Tauterus a Preacher of Germanie preached against mans merites and Inuocation to Saintes Franciscus Petrarcha about the same time did write an Italian meeter affirming Rome to be the whore of Babylon the schoole and mother of errour the temple of heresie the nest of al trecherie Iohannes de Rupe scissa Anno 1340. did write that Rome was Babilon and the Pope the minister of Antichriste Conradus Hager taught twentie foure yeares togeather the masse to be no sacrifice that monie taken for Masses was verie robberie and sacriledge Iohannes Mountziger Rector of the vniuersitie of Vlme disputed in open schooles against your Popishe doctrine And at the same time Nilus Byshoppe of Thessalonica preached and also wrote a booke against the Pope and the Churche of Rome whiche booke is now extant in English Truely there passed no age since Christ as it appeareth by the histories in which Christes Gospell hath not bene preached by some one or other either priuately in the times of persecution or publikely in the peaceable times and tranquilitie of the Churche when propheciyng of whiche Paule speaketh and other godlie exercises hath beene vsed But howe the true Churche may be knowen it is manifest surely euen in the Scriptures of God in whiche we learne Christ in which we may learn the church by which we may know the difference betwixte the true and false Church S. Chris saith At this time all Christians ought to flee vnto the Scriptures Because since heresies inuaded the Churche there can be no triall of true Christianitie neither can Christians which be willing to know the true faith haue anie refuge sauing the Scriptures Againe he saieth he that coueteth to knowe which is the true Church howe shall he know it but onely by the Scriptures The Church of God I meane euerie faithfull congregation in the time of peace and quietnesse doth vse preaching Christian and profitable exercises and discipline as Gods name be thanked wee haue at this day especially in all reformed Churches and we haue had since Christes ascention your Churche hath alwaies persecuted the true Churche by fire and faggotte and other exquisite tormentes If I may be so bolde I woulde aske one question of you Whether the true Churche of God did euer from the beginning persecute or that it hath bene persecuted You will I thinke confesse with me that Caine a figure of the malignant church did murder his innocent brother Abell an image of the true Churche that Ismael persecuted Isaac Esawe Iacob Saul Dauid the false Prophetes the true Prophetes the vngodlie Pharisies Christe the Messias the false Apostles the true Apostles the cruell tyrantes in the primitiue Churche the faythfull Christians and to conclude your Romishe Churche the true Churche and professoures of the Gospell And this thing was forewarned by our saâ—iour Christe That in the worlde his churche shoulde haue tribulation that the worlde shoulde reioyce and his children shoulde be sadde that if the false Churche had persecuted the Lorde it shoulde in like manner persecute the seruaunt and that they whiche shoulde persecute the Churche of God shoulde perswade themselues that they do God good seruice Saint Augustine speaking of the persecution in the primitiue Church saith They were bounde they were imprisoned they were beaten they were â—acked they were burned and yet they multiplied And Iustinus Martyr sheweth what he thought of those whiche suffered being yet an Ethnike When saith he I herd that the Christians were accused and reuiled of all men and yet sawe them goe to their death and to all manner terrible and cruell torments quietly and without feare I thought with my selfe it was not possible that suche men shoulde liue in anie wickednesse But to returne to your Churche we may say truely that you neuer had nor vsed in your Churche rightly according to the worde of GOD either preaching prophesiyng or discipline as for prophesying vsed by the Apostles and all other godlie reformed Churches your Church of Rome neuer vsed If you meane by the spirite of prophesiyng which you chalenge as of right to your church the forewarning of thinges to come which office was ceased in the Church then take heede least by your owne confession you bewraye your church to bee that Sinagogue of Sathan of which our Sauiour Christ geueth vs warning that with signes and wonders if it were possible shoulde deceiue the electe You preached very seldom not in time and out of time as Paule admonished his scholler Timothie and when you preached you preached not Christ and his death to bee the onely raunsome for our sinnes but your owne workes and meritorious deedes not Christes Gospell but your Legend of lyes and your vaine and supersticious traditions for whiche you had no warrant in Gods booke The law of God and his true worship was either altogeather abolished or else most wickedly corrupted before the times of king Iosias Helias did also renue the same beeing before his time decaied â—t seemeth in like maÌ„ner that the people of â—e Iewes were fallen from God when â—s they said vnto Ieremy The words that â—ou hast spoken vnto vs in the name of
the which â—uilding Christe is the chiefe corner stone â—hough you haue taught the people of God â—therwise affirming the Pope to be head â—f Gods Churche and to be of equiualent â—ucthoritie with Christ One of your scholeâ—octors saith That Christe and the Pope â—ake one consistorie and sinne onely â—xcepted the Pope can doe whatsoeuer God himselfe can doe And euen as you â—eale with Christe for the preheminence â—nd rule so you will appointe him a body â—r no bodie or alter or chaunge his bodie â—s you liste You cannot limit GOD â—is Church for his Church is in manie or â—ewe as his heauenlie wisedome appoyneth And therfore Christ saith That whenâ—oeuer two or three are gathered togeaâ—her in my name I am in the middest of â—hem And as one doth say as is before â—lledged Although there were but two â—en remayning in the worlde yet in â—hem two the Churche of God which â—s the vnitie of the faithfull shoulde bee saued Therefore though man be ignorant whome God hath elected vnto saluation and who be of Christ his bodie yet God who vnderstandeth all secretes doeth knowe who are his And euerie member of Christ hath the spirite of God to assure his conscience that he is the childe of god God graunt you that inwarde testimonie and the comfort of the same spirit grounded vpon the Gospell which they doe feele in themselues Then will you neuer be so carefull for these outwarde shewes Papist 15 SHew me that the church which ought to be a Christian mans stay in troubles â–ª and tempests of doctrine might become so hidden or so close that no man could finde her or so hartlesse that she coulde succour no man nor instruct anie man in hâ— doubte of conscience or distresse in faith Proue me that there may be such a decay â— Goddes spirit truth and churche And I recant Answeare 15 IT seemeth that you are harping alwaieâ— vppon one string but if you woulde dilâ—gently waie with your selfe the frailtie man who is dailie slipping away from dâ—tifull obedience towardes God and consider what bridles and bittes God hath ordained to pull him backe from the libertie of sinne to preserue him from daungers You shal finde other staies to grounde maÌ„s faith and settle his coÌ„science then anie such outwarde shewe of a visible Church as you imagin The ground worke and foundation of faith and the staie and buttresse of mans conscience are the holie scriptures which Dauid the blessed Prophet calleth the Mountaines vnto which the faithful shoulde lift vp their eyes which are the onely comforte to theÌ„ in their troubles Christ exhorteth vs To searche the scriptures for they do beare witnes of him who is our peace our iustification our sanctification our redemptioÌ„ The Apostle assureth vs That the scriptures are the power of god vnto saluatioÌ„ to as many as beleeue whether they be Iewes or Gentils What need we any further proofe to teach vs that faith is staied vpoÌ„ the scriptures then that which is spoken by Paule the Apostle â–ª Faith saith he commeth of hearing and hearing by the worde of God. Howe shall we knowe God â–ª Howe shall we knowe Christ How shal we know Gods spirit howe shall wee discerne true faith from a fonde opinion but onely by the scriptures Faith as Saint Augustine affirmeth doth stagger if the aucthority of gods scriptures do faile True faith true knowledge and a right conscience are grounded vpon the worde of god Constantine that worthie Emperour spake openly in the Nicene Councel to the like effecte The writinges saith he of the Euangelistes and Apostles and the oracles of the auncient Prophets do instruct vs plainely what we ought to vnderstande and beleue of Gods will and pleasure and therfore all contention set aparte let vs seeke the solution of those thinges which bee propounded out of the scriptures of God which by the testimonie of the holy Ghost be able to instruct vnto all good workes The doctrine of the scriptures teacheth especiallie these foure principles Knowledge Faith Godlines Iustice true brauÌ„ches of a christian mans life It is the parte of euerie Christian to learne to knowe God the Creatour and maker of all thinges to knowe Christ the the redemer of mankinde to knowe the holie Ghost the spirit of sanctificatioÌ„ what benefits he hath ond doth receiue by these â—hree persons vnited in one Godhead which â—noweledge the wise man calleth Perfect righteousnes and the roote of immoralitie Also our Sauiour Christ saith That â—his is eternall life that they know thee â—he onely true GOD and Iesus Christ whom thou hast sent Man created according to gods Image may not be like the Horse Mule in whom there is no vnderstanding or to bee such as God by the Prophet complaineth vpon That the oxe knoweth his owner the Asse his maâ—ters cribb But Israel hath not knowne â—ny people hath no vnderstanding It beâ—oueth him to beleue in these three persons and all thinges which he knoweth out of gods booke It is his part and duty moreouer to practise pietie and godlinesse towâ—rdes God iustice and vprigh dealing towardes man But I knowe what you â—hoote at Verely to haue vs to beleue and â—o stay our selues vpon the aucthoritie of your Church of Rome and the vnwritten â—erities of the same Church Because the true Church of God hath not alwaies appeared to the view of the whole worlde in outwarde pompe or shewe Therefore your indeuour to perswade yet I trust in vaine that man doubtfull in conscience and wauering in faith coulde receiue no comfort by that close inuisible and hartles Church as you call it I haue proued before that God hath raised vp in all ages since the beginninge of the worlde such as haue giuen a testimonie of their zeale and true religion vnto the worlde You must not limit and appointe God his Church or vpon whom hee shall power out his graces or in what measure he shall bestow his spirite God by the ministerie of his woorde doeth cure and heale suche as be broken in heart geueth medicine to heale their sickenesse maketh strong the weake faith and doth comforte the feeble minde of man by his holie spirite Gods spirite cannot decay or be of lesse power or Gods churche and spouse lesse honourable albeit there were but one simple man in the vniuersall worlde to mans iudgement which doeth imbrace the trueth of god Though Abell was but one thoughe Elias in his time was but one Noah and his housholde but a small number Christe our Sauiour and his simple Fishermen his Apostles men of no reputation a very few in respect of all the world besides had God therefore â—o Churche in these times Notwithstanding the law was corrupted before Christ the true worshipp of God cleane extinguised all the people geuen for the most part â—o idolatrie yea and no prophet to reproue the people from Malachie his time vntill
being eighteene monethes together at Corinthe afterwardes writeth this Epistle vnto the Romanes in the which Epistle he saluteth Priscilla and Aquilla and the rest of the Congregation being then in their priuate houses and also saluted many other by name and maketh no mention at all of Peter therin Who if he had bene there as you say that he was he shoulde no doubt haue receiued salutations as well as the rest of the faithfull There fell some contention betwixt Paule and Barnabas at Antioche so that Paule tooke Siluanus otherwise called Sylas with him into all cities where they had preached the woord of the Lorde Peter departed from Antioche where he had remained seuen yeares together into Assyria yet further from Rome Ye writeth an Epistle vnto the dispersed Iewes and sendeth the same by Siluanus sending salutations therin from the Church at Babylon a famous citie in Assyria where Peter was then the Apostle of the Circumcision But it may be that you will say that I mistake this place because some writers doe interpret this Babylon to be Rome and in deede it is the onely place wherevpon you do ground Peters being at Rome But this doeth not sound with reason neither is it likely that a man shoulde vse the name of one cittie when he subscribeth his letter being written at an other citie or to vse any Metamorphosis in naming the citie as though he were either ashamed of the place or else that he would not haue had it knowne where he had his aboade so he might better haue altogether omitted it and not to haue named Babylon at all But if you will nedes haue Babylon to signify Rome in this place sithe it agreeth neither with sense reason nor truth then I besech you let Rome bee that Babylon of which the Eâ—angelist speaketh Which is the whore that hath made all nations to drinke of â—he wine of the wrath of her fornicatioÌ„ Forasmuch as the sinnes vices which â—eined in Babylon are founde in Rome â— great aboundaunce as persecution of the â—rue Church of God oppression and destruction of Gods people confusion superâ—ition idolatry and all kind of impietie â—ickednesse But to my purpose Christ commaunded Peter and the other Apostles of which they had their name to goe â—nto all the world and to preache the Gosâ—ell to all nations and said that they should â—e his witnesses both in Hierusalem and â—n all Iudaea and in Samaria and vnto the â—ttermost part of the earth By which it â—ppeareth that if he had bene a resting Bishoppe and tied vnto the seat of Rome fiue and twentie yeares as you â—ontruly affirme he had broken his maiâ—ters commaundement and had answered neither to his name nor office It may be that you will alledge the Histories against me for the proofe of Peters Bishoprike but I may truly answere you that forsomuch as the Histories doe imitate and followe one an others opinion and in that the same were committed to printe verie lately in respect and in such a time as no books might be printed but suche as the Pope and his cleargy would ratify and allowe howe may it then seme straunge albeit the truth of this matter agreeing with the scriptures were concealed â–ª For if they woulde haue suffered the truth of this cause to haue bene opened it woulde haue dashed altogether your Popes succession and authoritie But to conclude you say that Peter was Bishop of Rome at such time as Paule was first committed there vnto prison which was two and thirtie yeares after his conuersion but howe vntruly let euery simple man iudge For Paule complaineth that at his comminge vnto Rome when he was first called vnto his aunsweare No man assisted him but all forsooke him No doubte if Peter had bene the Bishop of Rome he would not haue forsak his fellow â—aule Moreouer he exhorteth Timothy to â—ome vnto him shewing that Demas â—ad forsaken him and had embraced â—is present worlde and was departed â—nto Thessalonica That Crescens was â—one vnto Galatia Titus vnto Dalmaâ—a he addeth this clause saying Only â—uke is with mee If Peter had beene â—en in Rome Paule woulde not haue â—ed these woordes Only Luke is with â—ee For neither feare of imprisoment â—either present death would haue kept â—acke Peter from Paules company â—nd if Peter had bene in like authoriâ—e as you affirme his successours the Pope nowe to bee in hauing the neckes â—f all Emperours Kinges and Prinâ—es vnder his girdle he woulde surely â—aue deuised either some meanes whereâ—y Paule might haue bene deliuered â—om that filthy prison or else woulde â—aue obteined nay graunted him a parâ—on for his life So that this can not be â—idden or cloaked but that either you â—ust deny the Popes aâ—cthoritie and â—premacie in that time or else plainâ— and freely graunt and confesse that Peter was not then Bishoppe of Rome as you may I warrant you without any damage or hurt to your soule agree vnto both Thus much touching the prerogatiue of your Church Now you say Thaâ— the scriptures be difficult and hard and therefore your church of Rome must haue the interpretation thereof I haue shewed heretofore that the Scriptures â— God be not hard but very playne and easie That they are an vndefiled law which conuerteth the soule and giueth wiâ—dome to the simple They bee a candle to our feete and a light to our steppes The ophilact saith That nothing can deceiuâ— those which do search Gods scriptures for that they are the candle whereby thâ— theefe is taken An other auncient Doâ—tour saith That all thinges are cleare and plaine in Gods Scriptures whatsoeueâ— thinges are necessarie the same be manifest Clemens Alexandrinus a grauâ— wise man in an oration that he made to the Gentils saith Harken ye that befarre of giue eare ye that bee neare the woord of God is hidden from none it is a common light it doth lighten all men there is no darknesse at all in the world Yet this commeth into question whether the interpretation of the scriptures do depend vppon the Churche of Rome or no. Pigghius one of your owne doctors saith That the scriptures as a man both truly and merely saith are like a nose of waxe that easely suffereth it selfe to be drawen backewarde and forward and to be framed and fashioned this waye and that way and how soeuer you list An other faith of your Church of Rome Although they tell thee that thy ryght hand is thy lefte hand or that thy left hande is thy right hand yet such a sentence must bee holden for good Thus you make the woord of God which is easily and playne to the vnderstanding of the simple and a â—ertaine rule to direct the true Christian â—ut a dumble schoolmaster and deade letter and that you must set the holy spirit of God â—o schoole as though he had set downe the Scriptures in a defuse and hard
the king as vnto the chiefe And to conclude he saieth Honour all men Loue brotherly felowship feare God honoure the king Markâ— also howe Tertullian a godlie Father agreeth with the Apostle against your supâ—rioritie We honour saith he the Emperoures maiestie as a man next vnto GOD for so is the Emperour greateâ— then all men while he is lesse then onelie the true God. Of this minde waâ— Pope Gregory as hee sheweth in an Epistle which he writeth vnto Mauritiuâ— the Emperour Beholde saith he Thuâ— will Christe answeare you by me beinâ— both his and your most humble seruantâ— I haue committed my priests into youâ— handes as for my parte I beyng subiect vnto your Maiesties commaundâ—ment haue caused your order to be senâ— throughout diuerse parts of the world â–ª So that by the premisses it plainelâ— appeareth what dangerous errours and corrupt doctrine moste repugnant to Christe your Churche of Rome hath taught the people of God. Papist 18 LET anie Protestante in the whole worlde prooue vnto me that their Churche coulde rightly be called Catholike which was so particular that â— man aliue coulde name a place where â—y such churche was or that it might bee â—lled holie which had neither Baptisme â—r anie other sacrament to sanctifie anie â— her felowes withall or that it coulde bee â—e which as it grewe vp in the worlde was â—uided into so manie sundrie sectes â–ª or that â— might be called Apostolike which coulde â—uer make an accompt by orderly successiâ— from anie apostolike man or that the seâ—ete base and disordered congregation was â—er of that maiestie that it might require â—e obedience of all nations or that it was â—er able to gather generall councels or exâ—cise discipline vpon offendours or that â—hese titles proper by scripture and doctours â— the true church could euer be chaleÌ„ged by â—ght to their congregation I meane these â—itles following Corpus Christi the bodie of Christ Sponsa Christi the spouse of Christ â—nicè dilecta Christo the dearely beloued of Christ Amica Christi Christes louer Doâ—us dei Gods house Columba speciosa the beautifull Doue Columna veritatis thâ— piller of truth Ciuitas Dei the citie of Godâ— Ciuitas super montem posita a Citie set vpoâ— a hill Hortus conclusus a close garden Fons signatus a fountaine sealed vp Sponsa agnt The spouse of the Lambe Answeare 18 YOu doe vâ—ge often this Catholike Church and doe seme as of right to challenge iâ— to be your Churche of Rome but how vntruely I haue partely touched before This worde Catholike doth signifie vniuersall as in deede the true church of God is vniuersally spread and scattered abroade in all coastes and countries of the worlde and so doe diâ—erse good writers speake of it Saint Augustine sayeth That the catholike Churche is dispearsed throughout the whole earth And iâ— another place hee sayeth That the Church is called Catholike because she is vniuersally perfect and halteth in nothing and is poured throughout the whole worlde An other saith That the vniuersall Churche is Hierusalem the citie of the liuing God which comprehendeth the congregation of the electe and chosen written in heauen An other sayeth That the churche is truely called catholike which is separated by sincere pure and vnspotted communion or felowship from all vnfaithful persons and from their successours and companions These thinges of duetie appertaine vnto the Churche First that it is vniuersall and therefore as I haue sayde before it is not limited eyther to place time or person Secondarily that it is of â—he elect whome God in his secrete and â—rcane knowledge hath sealed vnto life eâ—erlasting Thirdly that it hath no felowâ—hippe with the vnfaithfull and with such â—s will not beleeue the trueth Neuerâ—helesse in the visible churche there be of â—ll sortes mixte together both good and â—adde beleeuers and hypocrites darâ—ell and pure wheate But to answeare â—our interrogation You woulde knowe Howe the Protestantes churche can be calâ—d the true Catholike and Apostolike â—hurche And I woulde demaund the like â—f you howe your Churche of Rome can â— knowne to be the true churche of god â—ruly there is an vnfallible rule set down readie howe the true Churche of God may be knowne and howe this controuersie may easily be decided For if we will beleeue the holie Apostle of God he telleth the Ephesians That they are no more straungers and Forrenners but citizens with the sainctes and of the howshould of God and are built vppon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophetes Iesus Christ himselfe being the chiefe corner stone in whome all the building coupled together groweth to an holy temple in the Lorde So that you may see that the true Church of God is discerned and knowen by the Scriptures The true sheepe doe heare the voice of Christ and will not heare a stranger And so the godly father Augustine saith That in the scriptures wee learneâ— Christ in the Scriptures wee learne the Churche Wherefore doe wee not then reteine in them both Christe and his Church And writing against the Donatists being notorious heretikes he saith Betwixt vs and you this cometh in question where the church is what shall wee doe nowe in this matter â–ª Shall wee seeke for the church in our owne words or in the words of her heade which is our Lorde Iesus Christ I thinke that wee ought to seeke it rather in his woords who is the truth and doth best of all knowe his owne body So Chrisostome saith That since the time that Heresies inuaded the church there can bee no triall of true Christianitie neither any other refuge of Christians which woulde know the true faith but onely the scriptures of God and therefore he which will know the true Church of God howe shall he know it but onely by the Scriptures Thus it appeareth that the true Church of God dooth defend her selfe onely by the Scriptures and woord of God which your Church of Rome doeth vtterly refuse for that you boldly affirme that the Scriptures haue not their strength neither receiue their authoritie from god But from the Church of Rome Yea moreouer you say That the holy Church of Rome hath power by a singular priuiledge graunted vnto her to open and to shut vp the gates of the Kingdome of heauen from whom shee listeth and that this power of binding and loosing is no lesse in your church of Rome then it is in Christ But you will say that I doe sclaunder you in saying That you affirme the Scriptures of God to haue their strength and authoritie from the church of Rome Truly one of your owne writers hath these wordes Who soeuer leaneth not sayth he to the doctrine of the Romaine church and to the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome as vnto the vnfallible rule of God of which Doctrine the holy Scripture taketh her force and authoritie he is an heretike He saith further That
the authoritie of the Romaine church and of the Bishop of Rome is greater then the authoritie of Gods word An other saith That this is the iudgment of all them that thinke lightly that ground the authhoritie and vnderstanding of the Scriptures in the allowance of the Church and not conrariwise â—lay the foundation of the church in the authoritie of the scriptures There be no coÌ„maundemeÌ„ts of Christ but such only as bee taken so and holden by the Church Therefore the scriptures followe the Church but contrariewise the Church followeth not the Scriptures An other saith That the Apostles haue written certaine things not that their said writings should rule our faith or religion but rather that they should bee vnder and be ruled by our faith the scriptures are dumbe iudges the scriptures are like a nose of waxe I might alledge many authorities out of your owne writers which go about to extoll your church of Rome aboue God and his holy worde â—ut these may perswade all men which be not wilfully blinded how arrogantly and Luciferlike you do preferre your Church both contrarie to the manifest expresse woorde of God and also to the opinion iudgement of the Godly learned fathers whose authorities I haue cited But let the indifferent reader iudge whether our church which groundeth her selfe wholy onely vpon the heauenly Scriptures and submitteth her selfe to the spirit of God as the true interpreter of the same hearkeneth onely vnto the voyce of her Pastor Christ and acknowlegeth him onely to bee her heade according as we are taught by the scriptures be the true Church of God the Catholik Apostolike church or your church of Rome which innketh her selfe equal with god vsurpeth authoritie aboue his most holy woord will not haue Christ but the Pope her heade which wil be iudge in all causes whether Christ will or no which mainteineth no not in one point the Apostolike doctrine and faith but doeth persecute euen vnto death the true professors of the same Whereas you doo aske Howe our Church can be one For that as you say it is deuided into so many sectes I haue shewed before that we doo not disagree now at this day in matters of faith and true religion as your Church of Rome dooth in matters of great weight and importance It hath beene a vulgar and common prouerbe of long time vsed that the Diuell will haue his Chappell nearâ— Gods Church Among the olde Prophets was some one Balaam or other In the small number which accompanied our Sauiour Christ was one Iudas many carnal Capernaites which sought rather their belly then the aduauncement of Gods truth which pretended a zeale and followed Christ yet depended vppon olde customes and ceremoniall traditions and helde other fond opinions Among the true Apostles were false Apostles which though not altogether yet in some parte preached either circumcision or iustification by woorkes repugnant to the doctrine of the true Apostles as you doo Our Sauiour truely prophesied That there shoulde arise false Christes and false Prophets Saint Paule saith yet in an other sence There must be heresies eueÌ„ among you that they which are approoued among you might bee knowne By which he noteth that Gods Church is not onely subiect to striffe and dissention as touching orders and maners but also to heresies as touching doctrine We doo not stand so stifely vppon our reputation but doe confesse that as we are men so we may erre But wee trye our iudgementes and opinions by the touchstone of Gods woord not respecting the person but the doctrine which we allow of so farre as the holy scriptures do approoue the same in which is no errour at all We doe not denie but that there may be amongest vs some carnall fleshly Gospellers some Epicures and Athistes some giuen to mainteine vnprofitable and straunge opinions as there are in your Church of Rome The like there were in the Apostles time some which helde of Paule some of Apollo some of Peter yea some which seemed to haue beene of the number of the faithfull because they occupied a place in the Church of whom the Apostle speaketh saying Babes it is the last time and as you haue hearde that Antichrist shall come euen nowe are there many Antichristes whereby we knowe that it is the last time they went out from vs but they were not of vs for if they had bene of vs they would haue continued with vs. It is manifest that in the primitiue church therewere false brethreÌ„ which were cloaked with the name of Christianitie Arrius that damnable heretik the fauourers of his sect which deny Christ to be God bosted theÌ„selues That they only were Catholikes and called others which mainteined the truth against them sometimes Ambrosians and sometimes Athanasians as you doo call vs nowe Lutherans nowe Caluinists nowe Zwinglians Ebion that Heretike who affirmed Christ to be onely man and saith that the obseruation of the Lawe was very necessarie to saluation would needes be called a Christian All other heretikes which were many in the florishing time of the church as appeareth by the stories bragged that they held the true faith that they were the true Church Shal we therfore coÌ„clude say that the Prophets the Apostles the godly Christians and fathers of the primitiue Church were not of the true Church of God for that in their times there were manie sectes which couered them selues with the cloake collour of true religion Saint Paule forseing through Gods spirite what woulde come gaue this watchworde to the Colosians To beware least that anie shoulde goe about to spoyle them through phylosophie and vaine deceit through the traditions of men acording to the rudimeÌ„ts of the world and not after Christ He also forwarneth the Thessalonians that Antichrist the sonne of perdicion shall sitt as God in the temple of God shewing him selfe to be God. It is wonderfull to see howe you are blinded seing you stumble at a strawe and doe leape ouer a bloke You strain at a gnat and doe swallow a Camel You see a moath in another mans eye and perceiue not the beame which is in your owne eye You are most giltie your selues in that which you would haue to be a notorious crime in others For you agree not in the principall poyntes of religion as I haue noted before but in that you demauÌ„d Whether our Churche was euer of that maiestie that it might require the obedience of all nations or gather generall councelles and howe the titles which you set foorth by name can bee applied to our Church I saie that our Church hath and doth enioy such priuiledges and preheminence as is limited vnto hir by the worde of God Neuerthelesse we doe not challenge anie such authoritie to the obedience of all nations vnto our Church but doe pray in the name of Christ vnto the Lorde of Heauen and earth to poure forth the
aboundaunce of his spirit vpon all Iewes Turkes Infidels and Papists that they may imbrace the glad tidinges of the Gospell and become obedient children vnto the maiestie of almightie god Where wee haue peculiar charge in our seuerall congregations wee exhorte with Iohn Baptist all men to repentaunce Wee say with the Apostle That wee are messengers from Christ to moue the people to be reconciled vnto God that we are feâ—owe laborers to beseech them not to â—eceiue the grace of God in vaine shewâ—ng that nowe is the accepted time and the daye of saluation in the whiche the God of all mercies doth offer them â—ardon of their sinnes for Christes sake â—hough they be neuer so manie in numâ—er if they wil repent beleeue the gosâ—el We haue no warrant in Gods woorde â— which ought to be the square or rule to â—â—reâ—t all Christians to claime or chaleng â—nie such authoritie ouer other nations Christ our sauiour doth denie that superiâ—ritie vnto the Apostles saying It shall â—ot be so amonge you In deede your Church of Rome doth vsurp this that shee â—s aboue all other Churches that all natiâ—ns doe owe their obedience vnto hir and â—hat all Kinges and Emperours doe owe â—heir subiectioÌ„ vnto hir as in Peters right â—ou haue sought and doe seeke the same suâ—eriority as appeareth by the sayinge of Frederike the Emperour vnto Pope Alexander the thirde most tyrannically treading vpon him and setting his foote in his neck Non tibi sed Petro This submission saith the Emperour belongeth not to thee but to Peter To whom the Pope answered Etmihi Petro It is both due vnto me to Peter The like proud behauiour shewed Pope HildebraÌ„d vnto Henrie the fourth Emperoure who caused him his wife and his sonne to attende and wayte three dayes three nights barefoote and barelegged before his pallace at Canntium or he would vouchsafe to speake with him But to let these thinges passe of which like examples the histories be plentilull which doe argue the ambition and tyrannie of your church As you haue made oftentimes this offer That if such suche thinges coulde be prooued you would recant So say I againe vnto you if you be willing to play the Proctoures part in the behalfe of your church of Rome and proue these high dignities which shee doeth challenge by the worde of God not onely I but manie thousandes will ioyne handes with your church But you shall neuer bee able to proue by the scriptures that God either in the olde or newe Testament â—ath promised to establishe anie suche one â—hurche in earth which shoulde appeare in â—utwarde pompe and externall shewe to â—e viewe of the whole worlde continually â— endure by orderly succession of anie Apoâ—olike man in one place or to be of suche â—uthoritie maiestie in earth that it might â—equire the obedience of all nations sumâ—oning and citing them vpon paine of exâ—mmunication to appeare at her generall â—essions or Councelles called by her Nay â—ther the churche of God as I haue declaâ—d before hath beene for the most part subâ—ct to persecutions of smal countenance â— the eyes of man and so small that oftenâ—mes shee coulde not bee seene as in Elias is time it playnely appeareth as also in â—e time in which our sauiour Christ was â—uersant here on earth But of this matter â— haue spokeÌ„ at large in other places You â—eme to take it as grauÌ„ted to you that you â—aue authoritie to call all nations to your â—uncells yet it appeareth by the ecclesiâ—ticall histories that you haue no such priâ—ledge or commission but that of right it apperteineth to the temporall magistrate Constantine the great being Emperour ouer all the world did call and summon generall councellâ— for the establishing of true religion without the consent of the Pope For so a good writer affirmeth Constantine saith he as if he had bene a common Bishope appointed by God called together councels of gods ministers and disdained not himselfe to sitt in the middest of theÌ„ to be partaker of their doings Your owne Popes in like manner doe confesse this For Pope Leo writing vnto Theodosius the Emperoure hath these woordes All our Churche sayeth he and our Priestes most humblie beseech your maiestie with sobbes and teares that you will commaund a generall concell to be holden within Italie I do not deny but that your Bishopps of Rome traueled earnestly that no councell shoulde be called without their consentes and to haue this prerogatiue of calling councells but yet they coulde neuer bring it to passe vntill they had gotten the Emperoures heads vnder their gyrdelles and that appeareth by the saying of Pope Pius 2. otherwise called Aeneas Syluius who â—doeth also note the inconueniencie whiche woulde insue thereof By these authorities saith hee they thinke them selues armed that say no councell may be kept without the consent of the Pope Whose iudgement if it should stand as they woulde haue it would drawe with it the decaye and ruine of the Church for what remedie were there then if the Pope him selfe were vicious destroyed soules ouerthrewe the people with euell examples taught doctrine contrarie to the faith and filled his subiects full of heresies â–ª should we suffer all to goe to the Diuâ—ll â–ª Verely when I reade the olde â—tories and consider the Actes of the Apoâ—les I finde no such order in those dayes â—hat only the Pope should summoÌ„ councels And afterwardes in the time of Constanâ—tine the greate and of other Emperoures when councells should be called there was â—o greate account made of the Popes â—onsent Moreouer he saith that before â—he councell of Nice eche Bishope liued seâ—erally and little regard was then had to â—he Church of Rome But concerning â—hefe titles wherewith the woord of God dooth beautifie adorneth the true Church of God calling her The spouse of Christ the dearelie beloued of Christ the citie of God c. Let the scriptures Gospel of Christ it selfe conteined in the olde newe Testament be iudge in this matter whether these titles doo belong and appertaine to your Church or vnto ours Our Church affirmeth Christ Iesus onely to be the heade of the Church his Spouse your Churche dooth affirme the Pope to be her head our Church dooth not mainteine any doctrine Sacrament or any tradition which is not grounded vppon the doctrine of Christ and expresly set foorth in the holy Byble your Church dependeth vppon the decrees of man dooth teache such ecclesiasticall ordinances and constitutions to be of equall authoritie with the Scriptures of God setteth foorth fiue Sacramentes more then euer Christ ordeined and corrupteth the other two Sacramentes onely appointed by Christ for these fiue Sacramentes deuised by your church of Rome were brought into England by Otho the Cardinall in the raigne of King Henrie the third in the yeare of our Lord. 1236. To conclude our Church dooth feede Christes people and flocke with
AN Ansvvere made by Oliuer Carter Bacheler of Diuinitie Vnto certaine Popish Questions and Demaundes 1. Cor. 11. Be ye followers of me euen as I am of CHRIST ¶ Imprinted at London for George Bishop 1579. To the right Honourable and his verie good Lorde Henrie Earle of Darbie Lord Stanley and Strange Lord of Man and of the Isles adioyning and Knight of the most noble Order of the Garter Oliuer Carter wisheth continuance of health with increase of honor COnsidering right Honourable the brittle and fraile state of mans life beeing subiect not only vnto manifold miseries by naturall inclinatioÌ„ but also in continual daunger and ieopardie through the assaultes of Sathan sinister practises of his vngodly meÌ„bers I thinke it the part of all the childreÌ„ of God so much the more to imploye all their trauell both for the reclaiming of these decayed affections in man also for the suppressing and beating downe by all meanes possible all wicked sinfull attempts whereby Gods glorie may be hindered And although I amongest manie am most vnmeete both for want of knowledge and lacke of experience to take anie such enterprise in hande yet for satisfying the expectation of a godlie learned friend as also for the comfort of my poore neighbours whome I perceiue to bee ouer much seduced the more it is to bee lamented by these and such like Popish deuises and thereby not so willing to yeeld their dutifull and loyall submission to God and to their most Noble vertuous and godlie Soueraigne as most especiallie for the aduancement of Gods honour and increase of Christes kingdome If his heauenlie wisedome thinke good to worke by such simple meanes I haue thought good at the least to bestowe my labour referring the successe thereof wholie and onelie vnto god I am giuen to vnderstande and I do partlie know it for trueth that these Interrogations Questions inuented by some papist be secretlie spredde abroad in sundrie places And albeit I doe certainlie knowe what great care and paines godlie Magistrates for their partes do take to aduance and extoll the true seruice and worship of God to further the free passage of his most holie woord and Gospell to suppresse the rage of such as do obstinatelie and stubburnlie resist the trueth yet notwithstanding there be not onelie close and secret enimies which wander abroad in corners seducing the simple by wicked doctrine sedicious traiterous libells and false tales alienating their mindes by all meanes from true religion vnto superstition but also the rabble of the Romishe merchantes with their masking wares do so increase and multiplie that vnlesse redresse bee had in time I do feare least great inconuenience and mischiefe will ensue thereof For partlie by these Popish whisperers and partlie for lacke of true and faithfull Teachers shippewracke is made of the Gospell of Christ I do not wishe their punishment but desire their reformation for my conscience beareth me witnesse howe earnestlie for my part I haue laboured to reduce them where I haue had charge from the grosse errours in exercising that small talent which GOD of his goodnesse hath bestowed vpon me and what inward loue I doe beare vnto them if I were able to doe them good Neuerthelesse I cannot but lament their miserable state perceiuing in theÌ„ such a readinesse to imbrace euerie fonde idolatrous tradition inuented by man to accept the aduise and counsell of euerie ignoraÌ„t lurking rebellious priest to persist in their old doating customes and heathenishe ceremonies and such slacknesse or rather dulnesse to receiue the vndoubted trueth of Gods most holie worde whiche is the verie pathwaye to Christes eternal kingdome and the power of God vnto saluation to all that beleeue But it is not my purpose to make anie long discourse of these matters Onlie I beseech your Honor to pardon my bolde enterprise in presenting this litle Answere vnto you and to accept my good will herein in good part So you shall not onelie incourage me if the like occasion bee offered to take greater paynes hereafter but also binde mee daily to pray vnto GOD for your Honor that all your actions may tende to the honour and glorie of GOD and to the discharging of that office and function which God hath called you vnto which God graunt for his mercie sake To whom bee all prayse dominion and power now and for euer Your Honors Oliuer Carter To the Papist which made this offer and chalenge WHeras you may seme vnto the simple and vnlearned in this your offer which you haue spred abroade in sundrie places to haue made a bold large chalenge for the proofe of your Romish church and in defence of your religion yet it is night no longer then vntill the day doeth spring for light expelleth darkenesse Though golde be of all metalles most precious though the Diamond Saphyr and Margarite bee stones of great value and price yet truth passeth and surmounteth all these and carieth away the bell without comparison Things which often seeme precious haue a resemblance and shew of goodnesse may be but couÌ„terfeite and faultie and haue neede of the touchstone or furnace neuerthelesse the veritie and trueth canne not dissemble she can not glosse she putteth on no vizard nor vseth anie colouring And albeit falsehood may oftentimes blinde the trueth as an harlot may appeare in apparell to bee an honest matron a theefe beare the countenance of a true man and the diuell chaunge him selfe into the shape of an Angell of light yet in continuance of time golde wil be seuered from drosse the darnell from the fine wheate and trueth from falsehood For trueth is great and preuaileth Dagon is not able to stand before the Arke of the Lorde But for that you affirme the trueth to be on your side and wee perswade our selues in like manner that we holde the trueth let vs not bee our owne iudges but obserue that order rule set downe by our Sauiour Christ for the triall of these controuersies Christ Iesus biddeth vs to searche the Scriptures for there is life euerlasting and they are they which testifie of him which is the trueth it selfe And againe he prayeth his father to sanctifie in the trueth those whome hee had chosen in renuing their mindes with his heauenlie grace that they might seeke his will set foorth in his worde which worde saieth hee is the trueth This is that word against which wee may â—ot heare an Angell though he come from heauen as the Apostle saieth Whiche wordes the godlie father Chrisostome expoundeth thus Saint Paul saith not â—f they teache the contrarie or if they oâ—erthrowe the whole Gospell but hee â—aith If they preache anie little or small â—hing besides the Gospell that ye haue â—eceiued or if they loose or shake down anie thing whatsouer it be accursed be â—hey Saint Augustin saith If an Angel from heauen preache vnto you anie other thing than you haue receiued in the
make anie long or large discourse or rehersal as concerning the Originall and offspring of your holy Churche of Rome whose beginning was with moste detestable and heynous murders poysoninges and other suche like meanes and practises neyther yet to dilate vppon the proceading succession or continuance thereof from time to tyme and vntill this present day neyther doo I mynde to remember you of the honour and reuerence which by the collour of your succession you haue wonne therevnto from God vnto whome onely such honor is due But to answeare you in few words the true Church of God began first to decay wheâ— as your Byshoppes of Rome not conteâ—ted with their dioces and their peculiaâ— charge vsurped other mens rightes anâ— interest or when they chalenged aucthoritie aboue their felow Byshoppes Thiâ— was in Phocas time who flew his Maistâ— Mauritius the Emperour and to currâ— fauoure with the Pope yeelded vnto hiâ— that superioritie that he shoulde be calleâ— the vniuersall Byshoppe and heade of thâ— Churche And so saith Platina Bonifaâ— saith he the thirde of that name obtained of Phocas the Emperoure yeâ— not without greate contention that hâ— should be called the heade of the Churche So saieth Sabellicus The Pope Boniface the thirde saith he at his beginning intreated Phocas the Emperoure that the Romaine Church might be the heade of all other Churches and that was graunted vnto the Apostolike Sea not without greate strife the Grecians claiming that honour saying that they ought by Christian pietie to be chiefest in respecte of the Empire whiche long before that time was at Constantinople Yet it appeareth by the writinges of Gregorie the greate that this challenge shoulde rather be a signe of Antichrist then of a true minister of Christ and therefore he writeth vnto Iohn Byshoppe of Constantinople saying It is not my cause but it is Goddes not I onely but the whole Church is troubled because godlie lawes reuerend synodes and the verie commaundementes of our Lord are ouerthrowne by a certaine proude and pontificall name or worde of vniuersalitie And againe he saith Whosoeuer doeth call him selfe an vniuersall Byshoppe is either Antichriste or the forerunner of Antichrist And agayne None of our Romaine Bishoppes euer chaleÌ„ged this name of singularitie none of my predecessors euer agreed to vse this prophane worde we will not receiue this honour though it were offered vnto vs. And to speake the playne trueth euen from this time Goddes true Churche beganne to decay and the superstitions of your Churche of Rome by little and little to increase and as your Churche grewe in wealth and riches so it waxed proude and carelesse as a good writer spake of it Ecclesia peperit diuitias et filia deuorauit matrem Thâ— Church brought forth riches and tâ— daughter deuoured the mother Foâ— euen this same Gregorie who liued sixe hundred yeares and odde after Christ not wtihstanding his owne bookes doe witnesse agaynst him to all posterities yet in his latter age he claymed this name of vniuersalitie though he could neuer attaine it for not onelie he but all before him and manie after him yeelded them selues vnto the Emperours refusing to be called vniuersall byshoppes or heades of the Churche Marcellus Meltiades and Siluester Byshoppes of Rome were in subiection vnto Constantine the Emperour Sirilius in subiection to Theodosius Anno domini 388. Hilarius vnto Iustinian Anno Domini 528. Gregorie the first vnto Mauritius Anno domini 600 Adrian and Leo to Ludouicus Pius Anno domini 830. Sergius vnto Lotharius Anno. 840. Benedict 3. and Iohn 9. vnto Ludouicus the Emperour Sonne of Lotharius Anno domini 856. But some of these byshops with their successoures peeced and patched with certaine superstitious ceremonies your Churche euen vntil â—ildebrandes time otherwise called Gregorie the. 7. at whiche time as it was prophecied long before Antichrist â—d beginne his full raigne Which Hildeâ—ande by a councell of nineteene byshops â—olden at Brixia was condemned for a â—riured person and a Necromancer As for your masse which was and is a more abhominable Idoll then the idoll at Delphos thoughe the Diuell himselfe was worshipped there in personall forme it was seuen hundred yeares in setting together and in framing And transubstantiation the piller of your masse not hatched vntil your Lateran councel beganne which was after Christ 1215. yeares and some euen the chiefest doctoures of your Churche cannot tell whether it be true or false certaine or vncertaine or a verie dreame or no. For Petrus Lumbaâ—â—us rehearseth these doubtes and therevnto he addeth his aunswere Quibusdam ita videtur Quidam dicunt quidam tradunt quidam concedunt alii putauerunt substantiam ibi panis et vini remanere Some men iudge thus Some say thus Some haue written thus some graunt this some other haue thought thus that the verie substance of the breade and wine remaineth still But marke your doctours iudgement and aunswere Si autem queritur qualis sit illa conuersio an formalis an substantialis an alterius generis definire non sufficio Yf a question weare moued what maner of conuersion or chaunge this is whether it be in forme or in substaunce or of some other sort I cannot define You may see your great doctors to be as ignorant and as doubtfull as the rest An other of your doctours saith How the body of Christ is there whether it be by chauÌ„ging of something into it or Christ his body begin to be there to gither with the bread both the substance and the accidents of the breade remaining still without chaunge it is not found expressed in the canon of the bible Beholde your Church Behold your doctours Beholde your vniforme assent and agreement whiche vntruely you so much boast of What time prayers for the dead soules Inuocation to Saintes seruice in an vnknowne and straunge tounge began in your Romish Church it is not much materiall seing they be all expresly â—gainst the worde of god The continuâ—unce of an errour doth not make the erâ—our a truth You may knowe by the scripâ—ures that the soules of such as departe his life in the faith of Christ be with Laâ—arus in Abrahams bosome as Saint â—ohn saith in rest and need not your praiâ—rs Such as end theire life in wickednes â— dye without true repentaunce be in hell â—here as the scripture saith that there is â—o redemption Concerning inuocation â—nd praier which is a parte of gods worâ—hip you robbe God of his due honour if â—ou giue that to anie creature which is â—roper to the creator For God saith by â—is prophet HonoreÌ„ meum alteri non â—abo I will not giue mine honour to â—nie other And againe Call vpon me â—n the day of thy trouble and I wil heare â—hee So likewise our Sauiour Christ â—aith whatsoeuer you shal aske my father â—n my name he shall giue it you And Saint Iohn saith If anie man sinne â—ee haue an
of God and your vnitie to agree â—ith Christs veritie and Gospell But is â—t this rather truely verified of your sucâ—ssion which was vttered by Pope Aâ—riaÌ„ Succedimus non Petro in pasceÌ„do â—d Romulo in parricidio We succeade â—aith hee not Peter in feeding but Roâ—ulus in murdering Succession of place â—uaileth not one strawe if you cannot in â—ke maner proue the succession of Christ â—s true doctrine The idolatrous priestes â— al ages might verie wel haue boasted of â—ccession of place And so might the Phaâ—sees which bragged somuch of their temâ—le and of their succession euen from Moâ—es and yet they were fouly fallen awaye â—roÌ„ the sincere pure Law of God worâ—hipped god in vain teaching the precepts â—nd doctrine of men You claime your sucâ—ession from Peter the blessed Apostle of Christ for that as you saie he was Bishope of Rome If nowe you can proue that your religioÌ„ is the same that Peter taught written by the spirit of truth for the comfort of the true Church of God conteined in the newe testament of Christ Then not onely I but all which defende the same truth with me will willingly ioyne handes with you But and if you can not proue your doctrine by gods worde you must theÌ„ pardoÌ„ vs in that we wil not take your part against Christ I woulde to God that you woulde vnfainedlie sect forthe to the vse of gods people that religion which the Apostle Paule I will not say Peter for that there is no warraÌ„t in the scriptures for his beinge at anie time in Rome planted amongst the Romanes Which faith true religion the Apostle commendeth in theÌ„ â–ª Then surely we woulde not onely goe but ruÌ„ne with you to the building of gods temple and woulde lay to our handes and our harts To this effect spaketh S. Ciprian that alwaies wee builde our faith succession and whole religion vpon a sure stedfast foundation If saith he The pipes of the cundit which before ran with aboundaunce happen to faile doe wee not serche to the heade c â–ª The priests of God â–ª â—â—â—ing gods commaundements must doe the same that if the truthe haue fainted or failed in any point we turne to the very originall of our Lord and to the traditions of the Gospell and of the Apostles that from thence the reason of our actions or doings may arise from whence the order it selfe and originall first began Thus wee may say of your vnitie in faith your vniformiâ—ie in ceremonies your holy functions If you can proue confirme these thinges by manifest places of the holy scriptures for my parte I will recant â—nd be of your religion But though you â—r an Angel would perswade me to the coÌ„trarie without the testimonie of Gods worde God assisting me with his spirit I will not beleue you I marueile why you will seeme to mainteine these matters seâ—ng it is most repugnanc to the truth The â—eade Capitaines of your religion and Doctours of your Church do not agree in â—he vnitie of your religion but do disâ—ent in the principle pointes thereof Some â—aye That Christes naturall body euen â—he same which was borne of the virâ—in Marie is receiued in the Sacrament â—ome denye saying that so soone as the forme of the bread is grated with the teethe straight way the body of Christ is caught vp into Heauen One sayth That a mouse may eate the body of Christ an other sayth That a mouse can not eate it and to dissolue these questions the cheefe piller of your church euen Petrus Lombardus saith What the mouse doth take or what she eateth God knoweth I can not tell And noting further the disagrement of your church men he saith Some men iudge thus some say thus some haue written thus some graunt thus some others haue taught thus that the verie substance of the bread wine remaine still And if a question saith he were moued what maner of conuersion or chaunge this is whether in forme or in substaunce or in some other manner I am not able to discusse An other saith How the body of Christ is there whether it bee by chaunging of something into it or Christes body beginne to bee there together with the bread both the substance and the accidents of the bread remaining still without chaunging it is not founde exprest in the canon of the Bible Innocentius the thirde Pope of that name sayth that there were some which sayde that as after consecration there remayned the very accidentes or formes of â—reade so likewise the verie substance of the same breade remaineth still Marke howe the pleasâ—â—nt and swete â—armonie and concordaunce of your â—hurch of Rome doeth agree and hange â—ogether as coÌ„cerning these weightie cauâ—s I thinke you iudge this transubstanâ—ation a matter of faith You may see â—en howe you agree or rather disagree â— the vnitie of faith Concerning your â—iformitie in your so manie superstitious â—uiteles and tedious Ceremonies and â—aditions of your owne inuentions it â—ay easily be veiwed and seene by the maâ—fold sectes of your religious stoare and â—ble of your heremites your Ankers â—d Ancresses your recluses your holy â—onkes of Benettes order of Cluniacenâ—s order of Lazarits order of Saint â—ieronimus order of Saint Gregories â—der the order of the shadowed valley of â—saphattes order of the Humiliats orâ—r of the Celestines order of Gilberâ—nes order of Iustinians order of the Charter house Monks of the Templaries order of the Iacobites order the Monks of Mount Oliuete Maries bretheren the order of the Flagellatours the Starred Monkes some white some black some graie some maled so called for thaâ— they did weare male cotes next their skin the order of Iesuites and a greate company of orders besides these Of Friers somâ— were called crosse bearers some Carmelitâ— or white Friers some Minorities or greâ— Friers some obseruant Friers some Mendicant or begging Friers some Dominicke some Franciscans so called of Sainâ— Frances whose coule as Thomas Aquine faith had power to remoue sinne I omitte your Channons your Virgiâ— Nunnes of all sortes but such as had nâ— oyle in their Lampes your Nominals your reals I might make a long discourse here in describinge the varietie of this religions crue and companie not only in ceremoniall matters but also in matters of faith and doctrine But I trust all the world doth knowe howe they haue bene bewitched with such kind of sorceries and therefore I should but wast labour and lose time You aske further Whether wee bee bounde to obey your Church of Rome and none other in all controuesies and doubtes raised by the difficultie of the Scriptures or by the vaine contention of heresies Hereby you seeme to chalenge two thinges not onely a prerogatiue or preheminence aboue all other churches but also the interpretation of the scriptures solely and wholy to appertaine vnto you But I pray you tell me from whence you had this