Brownists of necessitie if your spéeches be weighed séeing all Churches haue and doo things which you affirme to be most detestable idolatry but let the matter come into question to be debated among the Churches and you will be found Anabaptists for imagining such a Christian libertie and fréedome in the Church that nothing is to be receyued which is imposed by commaundement Then ye say that it breaketh our libertie S. Paul proueth most plainely to the Galathians and Colossians I pray ye then that we may sée such plaine proofe which as yet none but your selues can espy note the sentences that will prooue the matter You take it there is no warrant to set foorth any prescript forme of prayer because Christ hath prescribed a forme Ye thinke I might more safely reason thus Christ hath prescribed a forme of prayer therefore neyther Pope Byshop or Prelate ought to impose any other vpon Gods children vntill they can shewe some warrant from Gods word so to do I am fully of your minde that none ought to impose any other forme vntill they can shewe warrant from Gods word But nowe marke how the Argument will followe Moyses the Prophets and our Lord Iesus gaue prescript formes of prayer and praysing God to be vsed by the Church therefore the reading of a prescript forme of prayer when one prayeth or offreth vp the sacrifice of prayse to God doth not change the worke of the Spirit into an idoll nor is not a breaking Christian libertie nor idolatrie for the holie Scripture is farre from appointing any idolatrous thing Then I reason further that if the Prophets and our Sauiour gaue prescript formes to be vsed the Church may take order to sée them vsed And from hence it doth followe that the Church may impose prescript forme of godlie prayers which are framed aright If any thinke this a strange consequence let them consider that the Lords prayer in generall conteyneth in it matter touching the substance and summe of all prayers which haue béene made or are to be made aright The Psalmes and other prayers in the Scriptures doo expresse particulars with sundrie sentences and phrases most fitte to expresse the same Nowe the Church hath power and authoritie not onely to expound these prayers but also to applye them vnto euerie seuerall vse and necessitye This I adde withall that the Church hath no authoritye to bring in any one thing in prayer which is not conteyned in those prayers of Gods word but when the prayers be composed and framed of nothing but the doctrine of the Scriptures and after the rules of true prayer nothing is brought in which God hath not commaunded Lay aside therefore all your shiftes touching Apocrypha mens writings and inequalitie with Canonicall Scriptures and bring your Arguments against the prescript forme and the reading to prooue that they make a prayer holie in it selfe to become abhominable and contrarie vnto spirituall prayer That yee say our Sauiour neuer vsed the words of the Lords prayer when he prayed neyther commaunded his Disciples to say ouer these words neyther doo we reade that the Apostles did euer vse or enforced others to vse certayne words c. ye speake vntruly for the Disciples desired him to teach them to pray as Iohn taught his disciples to pray and he commaundeth when yée pray say thus Our Father which art in heauen hallowed be thy name c. Luke 11. and S. Mathew an Apostle with S. Luke the Euangelist hath deliuered the same to the whole Church if we reade not any where that they did vse the Lords prayer or commaunded others to vse it Will ye reason thus we do not reade that the Apostles or the Church in their time did baptize Infants therefore Infants were not baptized or will ye reason thus we neuer read that the Apostles did pray eyther before or after they preached therefore they did not your argument is the very same with these two former yet from hence ye will néeds conclude y t we will impose vpon whole Churches certaine words euen our own words stinting the spirit of God I haue alreadie shewed that the Church hath not authoritie to bring any forme of prayer into the assemblies but such as is agréeable to the rules appointed for prayer by the word of God And where ye call it a stinting of the Spirit I aunswere that the Spirit of God is not stinted but some men are furthered by prescript formes their infirmities requiring such an eye as I haue shewed before Argum. 4. Because true prayer must be of faith vttered with heart and liuely voyce it is presumptuous ignorance to bring a booke to speake for vs c. Argum. 5. To worship the true God after an other manner then he hath taught is Idolatrie But he hath commaunded vs to come vnto him heauie laden with contrite hearts c. How dare we then bring a dead letter vnto God to stand reading of the same in stead of faithfull petitions quenching the spirit Argum. 6. We must striue in prayer with continuance c. therefore not vpon a booke These thrée I ioyned together as hauing no waight Ye say I answere by playne contradiction without Scripture or proofe In déede you quote Scripture to prooue those things which are not doubted of as that true prayer must be of faith vttered with hart that to worship God after an other manner then he hath taught is idolatrie that we must striue in prayer with continuance But what scripture do ye bring to prooue that it is presumptuous ignorance to vse the help of a booke that those which reade vpon a booke come not with faith and contrite hearts c. but stand reading a dead letter which quencheth the Spirit and that a booke is no helpe for continuance in prayer what Scripture I say bring yee to prooue any of these is not my bare denyall as good as your bare affirmation and in this farre better that I haue before proued the vse of reading by y e word of God Dauid say you would prayse the Lord with hart and doyce therefore not vpon a booke S. Paule would pray with the spirit and with vnderstanding therefore not vpon a booke Dauid and Paule had not so much néed of the booke as other men But whē they will other to sing prayses to God as in Psalmes Himnes and spirituall songs did they not send them to the booke or to the prescript formes wherein others might praise God together with them although they binde not men alwaies to the booke Then yée adde a reason why praier read cannot be true praier which is that in reading we fetch the matter from the booke which mooueth the heart In true praier we fetch the matter from the heart which causeth the mouth to speake as I beléeued and therefore I spake This is a most ridiculous vanitie for tell me this when we bring foorth in true praier matter from the heart which causeth the mouth to speake
the name and I haue heard diuers say they go beyond Browne But whosoeuer shal reade his books and peruse all their writings shall well see that he deserueth to haue the honour if any be and to be called the Captaine and maister of them all They haue all their furniture from him they do but open his packe and displaye his wares They haue not a sharpe arrowe which is not drawne out of his quiuer Then next touching the question betweene them and me let the reader consider it is not about the controuersie in our Church as whether there be imperfections corruptions and faults in our worship ministerie and church gouernment nor how many great or small But whether there be such heynous enormities as destroy the verye life and being of a true Church and make an vtter diuorse from Christ I will lay it open more plaine by a comparison which the Scripture vseth The Church is like a man in whom there be many parts and members Rom. 12. If all the parts or members of the body haue their iust proportion be whole and sound and set in their due order the soule and life departed he is no longer a man to speake properly but the dead carcasse of a man But now if he be sicke and diseased so that all partes are feeble or if he be deformed with sores and maimes wanting hand foote eye nose or such like yet is he still a man so long as the soule and life remaine in him All men doo know this to be true yea euen the simplest make no doubt or controuersie about it Let vs see therefore whether it be a fitte comparison with the Church and whether it be so in it of necessitie and as manifest by the doctrine of the holy scriptures as this other is vnto our bodily senses To finde this we must first consider whether there be no true Church of GOD but that which is perfect in this worlde Wee knowe that there are none but Heretikes yea ranke abhominable heretikes which obstinately deny this cleere doctrine of the holy Scriptures namely that euen the most faithfull and the most godly are not perfect while they liue vpon the earth We know but in part 1. Cor. 13. In many things we sinne all Iam. 3. v. 2. And who vnderstandeth his errors or who can tell how oft he offendeth Psal 19. The perfectest members of the Church doo erre doo sinne are maimed are weake are spotted and deformed many wayes Nowe whereas all the members be in this case needes must the whole body which is composed of them be in the same estate Then we may not looke for a Church in this world which is not spotted deformed maymed and weake in some respects But the question must bee how farre it may bee deformed and maimed and yet remaine aliue and so a true Church of God Let all the partes bee ioyned together let there be all sortes of officers and offices yet if the life and as it were the soule of the Church be wanting it is but a dead carcasse Contrarywise let there be some members wanting some maimed all parts deformed and weake yet is it a true Church of God so long as the soule and life dooth remaine in it And what is the soule and life of the Church Iesus Christ apprehended by faith I liue now saith Saint Paul but not any longer I but Christ liueth in me Galath 2. ver 20. All the members of the Church are incorporate and graffed into Christ by faith and doo growe in him and through the operation of his spirite receiue the iuice and sappe of life from him Iohn 15. Whosoeuer beleeueth in the Sonne of God shall be saued though he be full of errors full of infirmities and deformities both in body and soule labouring to be purged But if a man or an assembly do hold that which ouerthroweth the faith in Christ they are gone there is no life remaining As the Papacie holdeth many things aright touching Christ but it holdeth sundry things contrary which ouerthrow the very foundation of the faith and so the Papacie it selfe is not Gods true Church Thus haue I laide open the question betweene mee and the Brownists wherein then are the Maisters and Capitaines of Brownisme deceiued And what is it in which they seeke victorie and glory They knowe there is no sinne no error no corruption nor no abuse but that if all the learnedest in the worlde would take vpon them to cleere and to defend the same they shall not be able Then they are desirous of victorie of triumphe and glorye ouer all both wise and learned Heere therefore they entrench themselues they make their Bulwarkes plant their ordinance set themselues in arraye and sound the Trumpet of defiance against all They presume none shall euer be able to driue them out of their holde And indeed he that condemneth an error and goeth no further can neuer be vanquished But heerein they are deceiued that out of this Forte they will batter downe the Church For theyr ordinance is ouer weake for that they stoppe in powder in great plenty for they laye on toong enough and so make terrible thundering crakes But the Bullets which come foorth and which should doo the deed are nothing but hereticall erronious and fantasticall opinions and so all vanisheth into smoake They must therefore at the last leaue their holde and take them to their heeles for Gods Church will not be battered downe by any assaults of Schismatikes Some will thinke hardly that I terme them Schismatikes seeing they be men that are accounted zealous and stand for good things But the truth is they be not onely a Schisme yea a vile Schisme rending themselues from the Church of England and condemning by their assertions the whole visible Church in the worlde euen as the Donatists did of olde time but also they maintaine heresies and some that touche the very foundation of faith and Christian religion they be vtter violaters of ecclesiasticall discipline they abridge the power of the ciuill Magistrate beside sundry fantasticall opinions For when as the life of the church consisteth in the apprehensson of Christ through faith it must needs be an heresie to conclude as they doo a nullitie a quite ouerthrow of the same from errors faults which are not fundamentall Faith and regeneration being vnperfect in all that liue vpon the earth it is heriticall to say that is no Church of God which holding the sounde doctrine hath sinnes and great abuses in it The stablenesse of Gods couenant towarde the Church being founded onely vpon his free grace it is detestable impietie to hang it vpon the works of men as the Brownists do when they affyrme that where there is any open sinnes suffered in an assemblie the couenant is disanulled with them all And if men consider well they shall finde that the whole Brownisme resteth vppon the heresie of perfection and Anabaptisticall freedome For from hence that it
vsed vpon them in publike assemblyes Diuers Churches also among vs are called by the names of those Saincts which they were dedicated vnto but to say that we do therefore dedicate Churches vnto them is very ridiculous In the City Athens there was a place of Iudgement which bare the name of Mars S. Luke calleth it by the same name doth he therefore dedicate it also vnto that heathen God of battaile When we call S. Peters Church or Paules Churchyard it is but to distinguish them by the names by which they are commonly knowne and called Then follow our Comminations Rogations Purifications Touching Comminations they be a part of the Canonicall Scripture which is to be read in the Church Rogations I take to be the compassing in of the limits and bounds of Parishes which is commaunded only to auoide contention and strife that might growe and there is nothing in the booke of Common Prayer touching these that euer I could finde Purifications are annexed only to make vp your riming figure for neither the booke nor the doctrine of the Church of England doth speake of any Purification but only in the bloud of the Lambe There is a Thanksgiuing prescribed for Women after Childbirth but neyther for Iewish Purification or Popish Superstition therefore not in such sort to be condemned After comes in our Tithes Offerings Mortuaries For the Tithes and Mortuaries I do not finde them once named in the booke the Offrings in déede are But ye will say that is no great matter séeing they be in our Church That is true but yet they are but for maintenance of the Ministerie not as a matter tyed of necessitie vnto a Priesthoode as in the time of the Lawe and if they were the error could not be fundamentall In the next place are brought in our manner of visiting the sicke and howsling them with the Sacrament our Absolution blasphemous Dirges and Funerall Sermons ouer and for the dead There is prescribed a manner of visiting the sicke and so is there in the leiturgies of some other Churches that professe the Gospell but where haue ye séene it practised or the practise vrged by those that haue the gouernment of our Church at their hands which are able and diligent Pastors Whereby your iniurious dealing may appeare in charging all the assemblies as they generally stand in England with matters which the greater part do not practise nor yet are required For if the sicke man be by the Minister of the word instructed exhorted comforted and strengthened in faith and repentance yea euery way prepared to depart ioyfully in the Lord it is that which the booke aimeth at neither is there any more required although he vse no prescript forme set downe By your phrase of howsling with the Sacrament ye would make the simple beleeue that the Popish Howsling is retained among vs. This is but a false kind of packing seeing our Church vtterly condemneth all the wicked blasphemous corrupt doctrine of the Papists touching the Lords Supper and also denyeth that a man is of necessitie to receiue this Sacrament at his death If yes replie that howsoeuer we teach yet the booke implyeth a necessitie which appeareth by that it doth appoint a priuate Communion I answer that euen the booke doth denie it to be a matter of necessitie and doth appoint it but to relieue the trouble which might arise in weake consciences through the want thereof for these be the words of the booke The Curates shall diligently from time to time but specially in the Plague time exhort their Parishioners to the often receiuing in the Church of the holy Communion of the bodie and bloud of our Sauiour Christ which if they doo they shall haue no cause in their suddaine visitation to be disquieted for lacke of the same And if any sicke person that would receiue this Sacrament hath any impediment that he can not the Booke willeth the Minister to instruct him that if he do truly repent him of his sinnes and stedfastly beléeue that Iesus Christ hath suffered death vppon the Crosse for him and shead his bloud for his redemption earnestly remembring the benefites he hath thereby and giuing him hartie thanks therefore he doth eate and drincke the Bodie and Bloud of our Sauiour Christ profitably to his soules health although he do not receiue the Sacrament with his mouth How maliciously then do you charge the assemblies in England with howsling the sicke with the Sacrament when all the learned faithfull diligent Pastors do as the booke requireth exhort those that be of their flockes to the often receiuing of this holy Sacrament in the publike assemblie as the due place for publike seales and the people by instruction being growen so strong that they do not in their sicknesse require it and so in the most Congregations which are well taught the thing is not practise◠The Sinagog of Antichrist deuised a purgatorie which is blasphemous against the bloud of Christ They had indéed their Dirges euen blasphemous prayers for the dead That Purgatorie do we vtterly deny as a wicked inuention we condemne prayer for the dead and therfore where ye tearme those prayers which are read at burials blasphemous Dirges ouer and for the dead yee are more then impudent in lying Funerall Sermons I finde not inioyned by the booke nor commaunded by any Lawe Ye adde further our corrupt manner of administring the Sacraments the Font the Crosse in Baptisme Baptisme by women Gossippings the blasphemous Collects that we vse vnto this Sacrament Byshopings with all the hereticall Collects of the Booke which as ye say is a wearines vnto ye to repeate though not to vs both to tollerate and defend When ye shewe some reason why the Font is an abhomination I shall knowe what to say Touching the Crosse it must needes be confessed that it was blasphemously and horribly abused in Poperie they ascribing vnto it power to driue out and expell Deuils and worshipping it with deuine honour In my iudgement also the holy Church of God within short time after the blessed Apostles and the reuerend godly Pastors did offend in taking ouermuch libertie to ordeine Ceremonies Symbolicall as that and such like yet no doubt very reuerend godly learned men led by the example of those holy Fathers of olde haue iudged it lawfull for the Church to ordeine such Ceremonies Touching the Baptisme by women it is condemned both by the chéefe gouernours in our Church and others and is not practised vnlesse it be among the popish and supersticious ignorant sort By Gossyppings I suppose yée meane the witnesses at baptisme a thing vsed in the best reformed churches and thought to be expedient so that yée doo not heerein condemne the Church of England but all Churches Bishoping of children is little practised for vnlesse the people require it by offering their children few Bishops doo vrge them thervnto onely this excepted that they be taught and instructed in the Catechisme The
from the booke which also dooth instruct me the like may be said when the congregation dooth pray with their pastor they fetch not the cause of their sighing from him but are stirred vp by him Your next words stand thus The reasons why we disalow of read prayers in steed of spiritual prayers that though they may be read for meditation as any other mens writs yet is it Idolatrie to offer vp to God such manner of sacrifices either priuately or in the publike assemblies Yée are very angrie that I termed your reasons by which yée oppose read praier vnto spirituall praier spirituall fantasies But take you héed that they grow not to be worse Yée are also gréeued that I call them your stuffe but how good stuffe it is let the pure word try I said it is false doctrine to make read prayer serue only for meditation My proofe was this that Christ saith not when ye meditate but when ye pray say thus Our Father which art in heauen and héere ye fling about as if ye had Béez For first ye exclaime that I make smal conscience to sclaunder ye because I said ye make read prayer serue only for meditation which is false doctrine Meditation as I take it comprehendeth all that is done in studying and musing when one readeth the praying is another If ye can shew a third vse when one readeth prayer I will confesse an error otherwise though ye haue not expressed the word only yet ye haue in effect vttered so much when ye say read prayer is not to be prayed Secondly ye charge me to deny that read prayer serueth for meditation at all which is in deede false doctrine because I said Christ saith not when ye meditate but when ye pray say thus Our Father which art c. Do I not say truly that Christ saith not when ye meditate but when yée pray say thus Our Father which art c. How can you then but like Spiders sucke that poyson from thence Thirdly ye accuse me that I make no difference betwéene our owne Leiturgies and the Canonicall Scripture which is a most friuolous cauill séeing our question is about reading of prayer whether it be Canonicall Scripture or framed from thence according to the rules of godly prayer Thus haue ye answered nothing at all vnto that commaundement which I alleaged giuen by our Sauiour to vse that prescript forme of prayer but only by shift and cauill Then ye goe about to proue that euery sinne against the first Table of the Lawe is Idolatry but with no shewe of reason And heere ye scoffe because I sayd if euery sinne that is against the first Table be Idolatry who shall be saued and ye demaund who is frée from Idolatry an absurd spéech for the Scripture doth not call the godly either murtherers théeues idolaters or such like I thought we had not reasoned about the reliques of sin which remaine in the best so long as they liue héere but of such grosse idolatry as a Church is to be condemned and forsaken which is defiled therewith But séeing ye confesse that all men be idolaters that is touching the remnants of sinne it must néedes followe that there is no Church frée from all spottes for if all the partes and members be defyled the whole can not be cleane This doth ouerthrowe all the arguments which yée bring to condemne the Church of England which haue no force vnlesse yée will maintaine a perfection for if a Church and euery member in it can not but of necessitie be spotted and defyled with some remnants of idolatrie euen by your owne confession then can ye not reason thus this is a fault it is idolatrie therefore this or that assemblie which is spotted is no true Church but to be forsaken But ye must stand to prooue that the idolatrie is so grosse that it destroyeth the faith ouerthroweth Gods true worship and so destroyeth the verie life béeing of a Church Thus much about your preface now follow your argumēts No apocrypha is to be brought into the publike assemblyes All read prayer is apocrypha Therefore no read prayer is to be brought into the publike assemblyes In my first answere I did deale only with the assumption or second part of this Argument affirming that I could not sée how it can be proued and shewing sundry absurdities that would follow as namely that a prayer of the Canonicall Scripture being read when one prayeth should become apocrypha c. But you replyed that those absurdities grow from my mistaking your words and I sawe it was so for our question being about the reading of prayer and not about the matter it selfe I tooke it that although yee hold the Lords prayer and other prayers in the holy Scripture to be Canonicall in themselues yet being read to become apocrypha because ye say all read prayer is apocrypha and did not expresse it with this restraint all read prayer framed by men is apocrypha I must now take the Argument as you say your meaning is and deale with both the parts thereof First then touching the proposition no apocrypha is to be brought into the publike assemblies what can be more false Apocrypha is opposed vnto Canonicall if nothing may be brought into the Church but the Canonicall Scriptures then the Sermons and prayers of the pastors and teachers are to be banished I knowe your meaning is not at all to exclude these although your words taking apocrypha as it is in vse among vs do in déede shut them foorth and not only them but any paraphrase vpon the Scripture as the Psalmes in Metre Now to your assumption which saith all read prayer is apocrypha first it is false touching the Psalmes and the Lords prayer which be Canonicall when they be prayed Then further I sée no fitnesse in applying the name apocrypha vnto our spéech to God though it be vsed for that which is not his vndoubted word to vs. For by what name opposite to apocrypha will ye call those prayers which ye do allow ye will not call them Canonicall this Argument therfore is false and friuolous Argum. 2. We must do nothing in the worship of God without warrant of his word Read prayers haue no warrant of his word Therfore read prayers are not to be vsed in the worship of God To this I answer at the first that it is great audacitie to affirme that there is no warrant of the word for read prayer whē there be sundry testimonies to warrant the same vnlesse ye will make a difference betwéene that which a man readeth vpon the booke that which he hath learned out of the booke Further I said I do not remember that euer I haue read in the holy Scriptures that God commandeth the prayer shall be read vpon the booke for he commendeth this diligēce in all his people that they should throughly learne to vnderstand not only the matters but also the sentences and phrases which his spirit
hath not the heart béene first mooued with the word of faith why may not the heart be mooued againe with hearing or reading the word and so vtter true praier the heart is mooued when one heareth the praier of the minister and presently sendeth forth praiers together with him Do ye imagine that the heart cannot both be mooued and pray at the same instant Is it not possible for one to pray in singing a Psalme Argu. 7. We must pray as necessitie requireth But stinted praiers cannot bee as necessitie requireth Therefore stinted prayers c. To this I answered approouing the proposition and in the assumption I did distinguish of matters to be praied for as that there be things necessarie to be praied for at all times and of all men of these a prescript forme may be vsed at all méetings of the Church There be matters not at all times néedfull to be praied for touching these there can be no prescript forme to be vsed continually yea some things fall out so rare that it were hard for as it is a fault to omit that which néedeth continually and of all men to be praied for so is it a grose babling to pray for things whereof there is no néed And if yée obserue the prescript praiers of all Churches yée shall find the regard of these two things that nothing necessary be omitted y t no praier be for such things as fall out sildome but they are limited to the time And further that which falleth out beside the prescript formes the ministers of the word are to supply And in the Church of England the Preachers are not limitted touching the matters of their praiers But if I meane by the things which be necessary to be prayed for at all times the Sacraments or any such thinges as Christ hath set foorth in his word wee should thinke our Sauiour Christ you say to haue forgotten himselfe that when he did commaund them to preach and baptize that he did not prescribe some forme of wordes for their praiers before their doctrine and Sacraments To this I aunswer I doo not holde that for the administration of the worde and Sacramentes it is of necessitie there should bee a forme of praier prescribed for the Minister may conceiue the prayers at the administration of the Sacraments as well as at the preaching of the worde But prescript forme is for conueniencie Neither am I of the minde that one precise forme is of necessitie Therefore yée reason verye fondlye in saying wee might thinke our Sauiour forgat himselfe that he did not prescribe a forme of wordes for their prayers before their doctrine and Sacramentes Your nexte wordes that then I must further saye that all things necessarye in the worship of GOD are not conteined in the Canonicall Scriptures and so euerye waye vpholde the Papists are euen as farre wide For all things necessarye and conuenient in Gods worshippe bee conteined in the Canonicall Scriptures But are you ignorant of this that there be many thinges conteyned in the Scriptures which are not in particular expressed but to bee gathered from the generall groundes and rules of doctrine What if one should obiect vnto yée there is no commaundement nor example of the Apostles in the scriptures for anye prayer to bee made at the Preaching of the worde and administration of Sacraments Therefore it is not conteined in the Scriptures that there should bee anye and so a thing not necessarye Would yée not flie to this that although it bee not expressed by anye commaundement that there should bee such prayers yet is it to bee gathered out of the doctrine conteined in the Scriptures How grosse are yée then in saying that this dooth vpholde the Papists But yée saye it were well I set downe what it is that may bee fitte at all times and for all persons to craue I maruaile anye should be so babling as to propound such a matter making doubt For can yée be ignorant that going through the whole Lords praier and opening the particulars there is no one petition but almost all branches of it are necessary to bee craued at all publike méetings and of all persons When will there bee a time and an assemblie in which it shall not bee fitte for all to make supplication that the name of the Lorde may bee sanctified that they may receiue the giftes and graces of the Holy-ghost to imbrace the true light of the Gospell to increase in knowlege faith and repentance to praye for Princes for the whole Church and for the ouerthrowe of Christes enimies to haue grace to obey and to walke worthy of the Gospell To craue all benefites for our necessary sustentation and the pardon of our sinnes with deliuerance from the deuill They bee all conteined in the Lordes praier but wee as children néede to haue them particularly expressed in that manner which may best helpe and guide vs. And touching praiers at the Sacraments they may verye well be the same séeing the thinges doo euer remaine the same which we are then to craue Vnlesse yée will maintaine that there bee thinges in administration of Sacraments at sometime to be prayed for and not at other Then so farre as prescript forme of prayer dooth fullye and fitlye expresse our néede it is no babling and so this your argument dooth not condemne it Read prayers were deuised by Antichrist and maintaine superstition and an idol ministerie Therefore read praiers are not tollerable c. Antichrist deuised manye blasphemous wicked prayers But to say that the reading or following a prescript forme of praier was his deuice is most false for there were leiturgies in the Church of olde before Antichrist was set in his throne And moreouer the prescript formes deliuered in the scriptures to be vsed and which were vsed and practised by the Church shewe that the thing is allowed by God Yée say I haue confessed that I neuer read in the scriptures any warrant to reade praiers vnto God and then it must néedes follow that it is antichristian I say you know that yée doo falsifie my spéech For I said and haue prooued that it is great audacitie to affirme that there is no warrant in Gods word for prescript forme of praier But I doo not remember that euer I read in the scriptures that God dooth commaund a man to reade the praier vpon the booke My reason is rendered that God dooth commend such diligence in all his seruants as to haue in memorie c. Will ye gather thus it is not expressely commaunded therefore there is no warrant it is not expresly commaunded that euer I read that the Minister shal make praier before and after his sermon Will yée charge me héerevpon that I say there is no warrant for it in the word There would sundrye inconueniences growe for want of prescript forme of publike praiers I did onely mention this that euery frantike spirit of which sort there may bee some in the Ministrie will not onely
the Pastour doth keepe backe some for ignorance c. Heere you confesse that very many Churches in England want godly Pastours and that there all are admitted and that he that admitteth them is the worste of the company Thus you make the most Chuches in England in a very bad estate and so farre foorth you affirme your article But yet you know some Churches c. I did confesse and doo still with gréefe that in very manye assemblies in England all are admitted to the Table of the Lord which offer themselues euen the most prophane and grosse sinners I shewed also the reason of this gréeuous offence namely that the ministers which should repell such open offenders are many times the worst or at least negligent in that behalfe And moreouer that the Church of England dooth neither approoue such admission of prophane men to the Sacrament nor yet suffer it in practise wholy For touching practise there be many congregations in the land where sundrie for ignorance and open wickednesse are by the ministers kept backe and not suffered to communicate vntill they shew repentance And for not approouing such admission I said the booke of Common prayer dooth prescribe and commaund the repelling of notorious wicked offendours and also that some are excommunicated iustly not admitted to publike praier This was the first part of mine answer wherein I prooue your accusation false The other is that the godly are not polluted by the companye of the wicked which are suffered to communicate with them in Gods worship and the thing not in their power to redresse And for example I alledged the Church of the Iewes By which I prooue that if your accusation were true yet it destroyeth not the Church Now let vs examine how you ouerthrowe this by your replye Yée aske whether there were no more prophane in the parish besides those twenty or thirty which are repelled And whether those other prophane were not admitted I answer If there were yet the repelling of twenty or thirty in a flock dooth shew that you accuse falsely when yée say all the prophane without exception of any one person are reteined in the body and bosome of our Church But to prooue your article at once as yée say by a more direct course yée bring an argument And yée demand if I know anye in all the realme of England vnbaptized Is not Baptisme say you a Sacrament belonging to the Church by which all the faithfull and their séed doo enter into it Wherevpon yée argue thus All being baptized it followeth that all are receiued into the body of your Church Now being once receiued in they can no way be cast out but by excommunication And it is manifest that the Parson and all his parish hath not the powre which Christ hath left vnto his Church to excommunicate any offender be he neuer so obstinate or notorious c. This being the onely reason by which ye stand to prooue the truth of your accusation I must bestow the more paines about it Thus it must be set in forme Where all are receiued in by Baptisme and no power to cast foorth any by excommunication there all the prophane multitudes are without exception of any one person receiued into reteined in the bosome and body of the Church But in the Church of England all are receiued in by Baptisme and there is no power to cast foorth any by excommunication Therefore in England all the prophane multitudes without exception of any one person are receiued into and reteined in the bosome and body of the Church In your proposition there are to be excepted such as are repelled from the Sacrament who are in some sort for the time remooued out of the bosome of the Church And also such Papists Heretikes and Scismatikes as depart out of themselues It is further also to be considered in it that all the baptized continuing outwardly obedient they cannot be iustly called the prophane multitudes Your presumption in which ye charge the Church of England with a principall transgression for receiuing in all by Baptisme and hauing no power to cast foorth any by Excommunication is with foule error and falsehood Touching the Baptisme of Infants this appeareth to be your iudgement that the children of prophane men which remayne in the Church and professe the faith of Christ belong not to the couenant and therefore ought not to be Baptised No doubt the Church doth offend when open notorious sinners are not Excommunicate and brought to repentance or at the least to such a shewe of repentance as that men can not further iudge them but as Brethren It is also an offence where such not being cast foorth their children are receyued vnto Baptisme and that without care to sée them brought vp and instructed in the Christian Religion and to leade a Godly life agréeable to the same But to say that the children of prophane men taking prophane men as you doo which professe Christianitie and remayne in the Church are not to be Baptised is a very wicked iniurie to Gods people and contrarie to the manifest doctrine of the holie Scriptures and can not without Heresie be mayntayned First touching prophane people it is certayne that all Heathen Heretikes all Scismatikes open contemners of the holie Religion and all obstinate wicked men whiche despise the censure of the Church that hath passed vppon them may be called prophane But you Brownists go further and condemne them all as Infidels and prophane which professe the faith of Christ because notwithstanding they doo it in some weakenes and infirmities which is a wicked presumption and intrusion into Gods seate and in which as I haue shewed before yée breake the rule of discipline giuen by our Sauiour Christ by which no brother that is none which professeth the true faith is for his sinnes and impenitencie to be iudged as heathen vntill he haue despised the admonition of the Church and so be cast foorth You take vppon yée to plucke vp all the Darnell yée are commaunded the contrarie least yée plucke vp the Wheate Math. 13. You dare and that in most sauage and desperate manner rend and teare vp the weake plants yée doo it vnto whole assemblyes in which there be many that vnfaynedly sorrow and mourne for their sinnes and studie to please God all that feare the Lord may tremble at this your intollerable wickednes But now to procéede Ye will not allowe the children of prophane men the Sacrament of Baptisme And what is your reason they bée not the séede of the faithfull In déede in this yée say true that none are in theyr infancie to be admitted to this Sacrament but the séede of the faithfull but when yée take it that the children whose next parents are hypocrites or wicked and prophane persons which yet remayne in the Church and professe Christ be not the séede of the faithfull at all and in any respect and so within the couenant and to be baptized
preaching of the word and now doth not the falt is in himselfe If the Brow do further reply that they be not true Christians which yet are moued by the preaching the motions are deceiptfull Then I wil frō that which they confesse shew that such people are truly faithfull For they confesse that they were blessed and holy Martyrs that suffred in the dayes of Quéene Mary and I say they were conuerted by the same ministerie which we haue now They had but the same motions at the preaching of Latimer Howper Taylor Bradford and others which our people haue nowe If the people at this day then féele the same effect in their soules at the preaching and Sacraments touching faith repentance and resolution to dye with ioy for the testimonie of the Lord if he shall require it let the Brownists and all other wicked Scismatikes barke that we haue no Ministerie we haue no Word we haue no Sacraments nor true Church yet the godly wise shall be able to discerne the voyce of Christ from the voyce of the Deuill and perceyue that the power of our Ministerie is not of the Deuill but of the holy Ghost whom they haue most wickedly reproched The fourth transgression The Brow THen for that their Churches are ruled by and remayne in subiection c. The fourth fault is in the subiection to an Antichristian gouernment If it were admitted that there is some yoake of Antichristian gouernmēt vnder which the poore Church may grone as it is her lot to be oppressed with outward bondage to be made to kéepe the Vineyard which is not her owne to be beaten of the watchmen to haue her vayle taken from her is she therefore no longer the Spouse of Christ The Brow But oh how farre are you from this which wincke with your eyes stoppe your eares and harden your hearts which can not endure so much as to heare of your fearefull estate which you see not no nor suffer your sores which you see to bee touched but seeke rather to cloake and hyde them both from God and man yea to mitigate tollerate and iustifye them Seeke you not heere to mitigate that heauie apparant Antichristian yoake your Churches stand vnder whereof heeretofore you haue complayned in Parliaments tearming it some yoake beeing now peraduenture through long custome growne lighter vnto you and more easye then Christs yoake at the least then Christs crosse c. To this fourth accusation my answere was very short for I did only propound this question whether it be no longer the Spouse of Christ which is oppressed and doth groane vnder some yoake of Antichristian gouernment and shewed my iudgement that it is the lot of the Church to be oppressed with outward bondage alleaging for proofe some what out of the Song of Solomon At this ye are striken with such wonderment that as men caried almost beside your selues you begin with a vehement exclamation and thrée things there are in my spéech which haue cast ye into this agonie the first that as you say our Churches stand vnder an apparant heauie yoke of Antichrist and I speake of the true Church oppressed with some yoke of Antichristian gouernment the second that I say it is the lot of the Church to be oppressed with outward bondage This ye tearme a blasphemous error because as ye say bondage is the badge of Antichrist the marke of the Beast whereby his souldiers are discerned frō the souldiers of Christ c. The third that I falsifie peruert the places of Scripture which I alleadge to prooue that Gods Church may be oppressed with some outward bondage where you will redéeme the places from such violence and corruption and giue such a glimse that simple men of vnderstanding shall discouer and search out the false dealing of such watchmen and the greatest clarke of vs all shal be taught héereafter how to abuse the scripture for a cloake to couer our sinnes O what valiant fellowes you be who shall be able to stand in your hands the greatest clarks in this land are but babes to such mighty gyants how shall I do then I must now defend my self in these particulars aboue named I will let the question about the heauy apparant yoake of Antichrist alone vnto the last place vnder which ye falsely charge our Church to stand and deale with that first which I set downe Where the first question is whether the true spouse of Christ may be vnder some yoake of Antichristian gouernment The second whether it be her lot to be oppressed with outward bondage The third whether those places by me alleadged be rightly applyed to proue the same I will not deale seuerally in these but in all together because they be all but one in effect Now to speake precisely and strictly the yoke of Antichrist is only spirituall inward where the faith conscience are burthened and be in subiection to receiue his lawes and worship This can not be borne without falling from the fréedome we haue in Christ But in a longer sense we call it Antichristian whē the pastors of the Church or any of them do vsurp more then they ought in external gouernment or tyrannously abuse the power committed into their hands This is that which I called some Antichristian yoke Now the very point of the question is whether the true spouse of Christ hath euer béen oppressed in this by any of her gouernours as her lot in some outward bondage I hold that she hath and for proofe I alleaged those sayings out of the Song against which you take exception as places wrested which shall be considered after other testimonies shewed Then I demaund of ye first whether it was not the spouse of Christ whom the Lord calleth Israell his shéepe and his flocke The pastors of Israell did not only scatter these but ruled ouer them and exercised dominion by violence tyranny Ezech. 34. v. 4. What say ye to this the Prophets prophesie lies the Priests exercise dominiō by their hand my people loue to haue it so Ier. 5. v. 31. Was there no true Church vnder this ruling of y e priests Pashur a chief priest in the temple stroke Ieremy the Prophet put him in the stockes Ierem. 20. ver 1. will yée affirme that there was no true Church then Come to the time in which our Sauiour liued vpon the earth for as yet the kingdome of God was not taken away from them which is threatned Matth. 22 but the high Préest with the other Préests with the Pharisies and Elders of the people had the Ecclesiasticall power which they tyrannously abused and by it oppressed the faithfull as appeareth in diuerse places of the Gospell and namely in Iohn 7. ver 13. and Iohn 9. ver 22. Diotrephes ambitiously abused the power of gouernment when he withstood S. Iohn as he testifieth in his third Epistle written vnto Gaius I wrote saith he vnto the Church but Diotrephes who loueth to haue
preheminence among them receiueth vs not Therefore if I come I will declare his deeds railing at vs with malitions words and not content therewith neither he himselfe receiueth not the brethren and them that would he forbiddeth casteth them out of the church ver 9. 10. Dooth S. Iohn tell the Christians that this tyrannous oppression by Diotrephes did make them to be no longer Christes Church which remained vnder him Did he will them to seperate themselues and not to obey him any longer in any thing Our Sauiour saith the time will come that they shall excommunicate yée Iohn 16. ver 2. Antichrist himselfe sitting in the Temple of God seduced the reprobate but could not destroy the Church which yet he did gréeuously oppresse and kéepe in some bondage Whereby it appeareth that Solomon speaketh of that which should fall out often and be euen as it were the lot of the Church to be iniuried oppressed and kept in some outward bondage euen by those at whose hands she should finde most comfort holding the places of Pastors and Gouernours as we haue séene in the Church of Israell before our Sauiour came at the time he liued and also in the Church vnder the Gospell You bring in diuerse scriptures which prooue as you imagine that an outward oppression of the Church in externall gouernment dooth make an vtter deuorse betwixt her and Christ but he that considereth those things which I haue before noted and the sundry oppressions of the Church by her Pastors shall easily perceiue that Anabaptisticall fréedome which yée glory of For howsoeuer the Church with her Children are frée with God and receiue no yoake vpon their faith and conscience yet in outward things they may be oppressed You could abide well enough that phrase of spéech oppressed but to say the Church of Christ may be in anye bondage yée terme a blasphemous error Because bondage yée say is the badge of Antichrist the marke of the Beast c. Take héede of the saying that is written 2. Pet. 2. ver 19. That the seducers promise libertie and are themselues the bend seruants of corruption For you imagine and glorye of such a full and perfect libertie as that yée account it a blasphemous error to say the Church may be oppressed with outward bondage It is strange that there should be such a bolde spirite in rotten flesh as flatly to contrary the spirit of God For the Lord sayd to Abraham Thy seede shall bee in bondage and they shall oppresse them But the nation whom they shall serue will I Iudge Genes 15. He saith he brought them out of the house of bondage or of bond men Exodus 20. Will ye affirme that the Church was not oppressed with outward bondage in Egypt will ye deny that they were led captiue and held in outward bondage in Babilon cannot this word bondage which the holy Ghost vseth be allowed of yée must bondage of necessity be the badge and marke of Antichrist when the Lord threatneth by his Prophets that his people should go into captiuity and that there should be a yoake of bondage layd vpon them dooth he giue them ouer to weare the badge of Antichrist or so to be seruants vnto men that they could not also be his seruants Indéed the Anabaptists do holde that wee cannot be seruants vnto men in any outward bondage yet be the seruants of Christ grounding their heresie vpō the places which you alledge If all maner of bondage be the marke of the beast and the badge of Antichrist and a loosing of Christian liberty as you and the Anabaptists would haue it then how could S. Paul say Art thou a bond man care not thou art the Lords free man 1. Cor. 7 Let no man suppose that I charge ye ouer hardly with this grosse point of Anabaptistrie because our question is about Church gouernment and I speake of ciuill bondage for ye speake generally of outward bondage and denie that it can be the lot of the Church or of any member therof The worde bondage though it be outward cannot in anye sense be allowed by you to agrée with your fréedom Now for the places in the song My mothers sonnes were angrye with me they set me to keepe the Vines mine owne Vine I haue not kept In this place the Church willeth first y t they should not looke scornefully vpon her because she is somwhat blacke Then she sheweth that it is not her natiue colour but she is sunne burnt the sunne saith she hath looked vpon me There followeth the occasion that her mothers sonnes were angrye with her set her to kéepe the Vines Who these be whome she calleth her mothers sonnes is the greatest difficultie to finde Tremellius whose interpretation in that point ye follow doth expound it of originall sinne the lusts which she hath frō the wombe other take it more fitly of false brethrē which boast thēselues to be true worshipers children of the church which she calleth her mothers sonnes because they descended frō the ancient mother church were the degenerate children of holy forefathers for I take it somwhat hard to cal sins or concupiscences her mothers sons But take it whether way ye wil either of original sin concupiscences or of degenerate children among whom there were many euen of the Pastors gouernors yet ye cannot auoid but y t there is a violence an oppression some bondage for she saith they set her to kéep the vineyards Howsoeuer you would slily insinuate that it were but negligence that when she repenteth she is so cléered that she is in no bondage vnto sinne at all But when ye haue cauilled what ye can it standeth cléere by the scriptures y t the Church in her perfectest repentance euen with all her children is held in some spirituall bondage vnto sin but yet she is not obstinat I grant for she hateth the euil she doth laboureth against it I doe not gather from this that the Church either did or may kéepe Antichrists Vine as you demaund what a bolde falsifiyng of the place this is But I saye what a bolde impudencie is this in you so to falsifie my wordes For I alledge it to prooue that the Church is subiect to bee oppressed bable so much of Antichrist and his yoake Then let hym prooue that euery error abuse and great fault in discipline doth ouerturne it and make it become Antichristian yea Antichrists yoake so farre as to make it no Church which is subiect to such oppression It is most cléere that a Church may erre in sundrie poynts of Doctrine and not be Antichristian but the true Spouse of Christ And an error in Doctrine if it be foule doth approch néerer towards the ouerthrowe of faith then an error or an abuse in externall gouernment Moreouer if the execution of discipline by Byshops be the yoake of Antichrist and if all the Churches which doo stande vnder the same doo worship the Beast
vnto others What maketh this for priuate men Doubtlesse ye haue no patterne in the Scriptures which you follow but of Corah Dathan and Abyram with their company who cried Are not all the Lordes people holye euen as you Brownists with the Anabaptists crye out Are not all the Lordes people frée Yee hane no commission from GOD it is the Deuill that hath thrust yee forwarde and will yée in such vile and wretched manner pretend the examples of the Primitiue Churches But your reason dependeth much vpon this that the Primitiue Churches stayed not the pleasures of Princes If this were granted that princes are not to be stayed for yet dooth it not follow there vpon that priuate men are to establish Church gouernement but there must bee some to doo it which are called and furnished with authority from God Yet the question dooth remaine touching Princes whether they be to be stayed for Browne maketh many arguments to prooue that they are not to be stayed for nor yet haue to do by publike power to establish religion which opinion of his is with such abridging the sacred power of Princes and with such horrible iniurie to the Church contrarye to the manifest worde of God that if there were nothing else it is enough to make him an odious and detestable heretike vntill he shew repentance You follow him héere and alledge some reasons which are to be considered But first the question which is generall must be restrained vnto the speciall We must distinguish for there be Heathen and Idolatrous Kings and there be Christian Princes Those are against Christ and these are for Christ When the holye Apostles were sent foorth to Preach the Gospell in the whole world the Kings were all Heathen and bent their power against them To what end should they hauing commission from Christ to establish discipline sue vnto the Courts and Parliaments of such Princes or attend their pleasure The case is all one where the kings professe Christ in name and be idolaters As in France the Ministers whom God hath raised vp and sent to publish the Gospell in former yeares attended not the pleasure of those their idolatrous Kings for the setting vp of discipline for they might aswell at their inhibition haue ceased from preaching But where there is a Christian Prince the sacred power of the sword is with Christ and for his Church and héere the case is cleane changed For this Magistrate King or Quéene sitting vpon the royall Throne and holding the Scepter is the chiefs and principall member of the Church This Magistrate béeing Gods minister and bearing the Sword to take vengeance vppon all euill dooers Rom. 13. and to mayntayne peace with all godlinesse and honestie Timoth. 2. hath the charge and burthen not only to prouide for the bodyes of the Subiects and theyr outward ciuill estate but also by good ciuill Lawes to procure the establishing of Gods true Religion and worship among them for the comfort of theyr Soules for how shall he punish all euill and mayntayne all Godlynesse by the Sword but by establishing Christes holie Religion Therefore this Magistrate is to assemble all the learned the wise the graue and experienced that he may conueniently and to haue it discussed by the Word of God which is the true and pure Doctrine and which be the rules and orders that Christ hath giuen for the gouernment preseruation of his Church Then are Lawes to bée made for Kings can not rule but by Lawes to destroy and abolish all false Religion Superstition Idolatrie and Heresies and to compell all states and degrées of persons within the Kingdome to receyue the holie doctrine and rules of Christ and to walke in the same This dyd the Kings of Iuda as the holie Scriptures doo playnely declare Nowe if this Christian Prince doo erre in some matters of Doctrine or touching the rules of discipline yet holding and mayntayning all the fundamentall poynts of the Christian faith so that there be abuses and corruptions in the Churche euerie priuate godlie man is to kéepe a good conscience not breaking the vnitie and peace of the faithfull but not to take publike authoritie to reforme Then yée demaund If they should tarrie Princes leysures where were the persecution wee speake of Héere ye vtter a most beastlie spéeche Saint Paule willeth to make earnest prayers and supplications for Princes that wee may liue in peace with all godlinesse 1. Timoth. 2. Whereby it appeareth that the defence of the Christian Magistrate is a singular blessing vnto the Church And you take it the Crosse of Christ is abolished vnlesse the Magistrate be prouoked and doo persecute The faithfull doo beare the Crosse of reproches and afflictions vnder the most Godly Kings who yet in dutie are vppon knowledge to redresse it Do yée thincke the Godly did not beare the Crosse vnder King Dauid who was not frée himselfe Or would yée haue no peace by Christian Kings If your meaning be not such why doo yée vtter so wicked spéech Then yée say we make Christ attend vpon Princes I answere that Christ hath ordinarie Ministers if these be slacke when he will haue hys woorke doone he can and hath raysed vp extraordinarie workemen If his Kingdome lye waite doth that warrant priuate men to steppe foorth and to reforme or establishe Or shall Christ bée brought to stoupe vnto Princes if euerie Schismatike intrude not himselfe to runne when GOD hath not sente him There be certayne Answers which go vnder the name of Henry Barowe where béeing demaunded whether the Quéene may make Lawes for the Church which are not contrarie to the Word of God The Answere is this I thincke no Prince neyther the whole world nor the Church it selfe can make any Lawes for the Church other then Christ hath left in his Word This séemeth vnto simple men a verie sound Answere drawne from two firme principles the one that there is but one Law-giuer which is God the other that he hath by Iesus Christ giuen full and perfect Lawes for hys Church The deceypt lyeth hid in this that men doo not consider there be generall lawes or rules giuen by Christ for matters of circumstance that bée indifferent and variable in the particulars and so to be altered and abolished as the peace and edification of the Churche shall requyre And therefore that Princes with the Church are to ordeine and to establish such orders by those generall rules as may afterward for iust cause be altered Wherefore it is manifest that the answer of Barow dooth cut off a great part of the Discipline and shorten the power of the Prince And moreouer it is not considered that the Prince being to punishe all euill by the doctrine of Sainte Paul and to maintaine all godlinesse cannot doo it but by lawes and so is to establishe by lawes the whole Christian religion Where vpon this Anabaptisticall answere of Barow I thinke it the dutie of euerye Christian and principally of the Prince