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A52293 A conference with a theist part I / by William Nicholls. Nicholls, William, 1664-1712. 1698 (1698) Wing N1093; ESTC R25508 121,669 301

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Communication of the Divine Goodness 98. The Fixed Stars probably no part of the Mosaick Creation 99. Genesis 3.16 Explained 100. Objection against this Interpretation answered 105. This Interpretation not prejudicial to Religion 107. Light before the Sun is the clearing up of the Chaos 108. Waters above the Firmament the Waters of the Planets 114. The Seas easily formed in one Day 117. Trees and Plants might easily grow before the Sun was made 119. How the Planets are said to be made the Fourth Day 123. Why Moses relates the distinct formation of the Earth alone 126. This Relation agrees with the aforesaid Hypothesis 129. God acted by other Methods in the Creation than now 135. He then took an immediate care of the Species 137. Americans of the same Stock with the rest of the World 139. How Inhabitants got into America 140. How the Blacks might descend from a White Parentage 143. This Blackness caused by the heat of the Sun 145. By the Curse of Cham. 147. No Absurdity that Eve should be made of a Rib. 167. No Race of Men before Adam 172. The Argument for the Praeadamites answered 173. No confused Huddle in the Relation of the Sixth Day 's Work 181. The Fall of Man not the first day of his Creation 182. The Ridiculousness of other Nations Accounts of the Creation compared with the Mosaical 187. The Aegyptian and Graecian 187. The Mahometan 188. The American 189. Of the Fall of Mankind The Wickedness and Folly of drolling upon Scripture 192. Not unreasonable that the Devil should tempt Mankind in the form of a Serpent 196. The Devil much pleased with Serpent Worship 199. This Serpent not the common viperous kind 201 God not oblig'd to keep Man from Sinning by an irresistable Power 204. This would have destroyed Freewill 206. Man had sufficient Assistance 208. This Miscarriage was repaired by God's Mercy afterwards 209. The Relation of two Trees not ridiculous 211. Difficulties about the Rivers of Eden removed 215. Moses did not give Account of the Rivers to find out Paradice by 217. The Reasonableness of the Probative Precept 219. The prohibition of an Apple more proper than any thing else 220. The Transgression of our First Parents no trifling Offence 225. The Difficulties of Original Sin removed 229. The Cursing the Ground no Reflection upon the Deity 235. Nor the Curse of the Serpent 237. The meaning of Their Eyes were opened 239. No Absurdity in the Relation of the Fig Leaves and the Skins 244. The Difficulties of the Cherubims and the Flaming Sword removed 245. The History of the Fallnot Allegorical 250. Such a Supposition would destroy all History 250. Moses a plain Writer 252. Had no design like the Heathen Philosophers to serve by an Allegory 253. Nor the same design with Allegorical Fathers 254. Moses gives the best Account of the depravation of Man's Will 256. The Miscarriages of the Philosophers in this 256. His Account the best of the Pudor circa Res Veneris 261. Of the pain of Child Birth 262. Of the Barrenness of the Earth 263. THE CONTENTS of the Second Part OF THE CONFERENCE PArticulars of the Conference p. 4. Of Natural Religion The unreasonableness of villifying the Clergy 7. The People partook of the Antient Sacrifices 14. Natural Religion not the Tendencies of Nature 18. Priests in all places of the World and in all Ages 21. The Advantage of a Ministry 23. Pure Natural Religion no where practised 25. What is called Natural Religion was at first revealed 32. Riddles not the corruption of Natural Religion 38. Heathen Polytheism not the diverse Exhibitions of Providence 41. Caused by the Darkness of the Post-diluvian Ages 45. by deifying of Princes 46. by the Worship of the Sun Moon and Stârs 49. by Deifying Words 51. Morality of the Philosophers grounded upon Pride 54. The Antient Philosophers mistaken in the nature of God 56. Erroneous in their Moral Doctrines 58 Their Lives Vitious 61. The Lives of the Common Pagans highly vitious 64. They and the Philosophers wanted a true end of their Actions 65. The Lives of Christians better than the Pagans in many particulars 67. Idolatry 68. Magick 68. Augury 69. Human Sacrifices 69. Lewd Worships 69. Vnlawful Marriages 70. Cruelty 70. Self Murther 71. Common Swearing 71. Exposing Children 72. Vnjust Wars 72. Luxurious Living 73. Enormous Lusts. 74. No Devout Worship 74. God more severe to Modern Theists than Antient Heathens 78. Heathens do not go to Heaven 79. What other Provision God may make for them 80. Not Indifferent to be of any Religion 84. 'T is Hypocrisie 85. Sometimes Idolatry 85. Morality not the same in all Religions 86. Not always to be of the Religion of our Country 87. Sin outwardly to comply with a false Religion 88. No Folly to suffer for Religion 89. K. of Siam's Argument answer'd 90 Of Revealed Religion and the Doctrine of the Mediator No Revelation to the Gentiles for their Religions 97. Because Idolatrous 98. Immoral 99. Melchisedech 99. This agreable to God's usual Providence 113. No Injustice in God 113. Other Instances of Providence as unaccountable 114. Jews not such ill People as pretended 117. Justin c. considered 119. Natural Knowledge not Revelation 128. Prophets not only extraordinary Men. 131. Spirit of God in Scripture signifies Revelation 135. That Prophesy does not consist in Imagination 143. Prophets had the Inspiration of the Holy Ghost 150. Prophecy not inconsistent with Wisdom 153. Prophecies not variable according to the Prophets Passions 154. Passions not the cause of Prophecy 155. Vain Opinions not mixed with Prophecy 157. More in Prophecy than Fancy and Well meaning 159. First Notion of Miracles not from the Jews 164. No Immutable Chain of Nature 165. God's Providence better than Fatality 167. God a wise Governour without Fatal Laws 169. Miracles not Occurrences which the Vulgar do not understand 169. Miracles do not make Men doubt of a God 171. False Miracles no Argument against True ones 173. Instances of the Jews and Solomon considered 175. Miracles not naturally come to pass 178. Difficulties of the Deluge accounted for 186. Remarks on the late Theorys c. 187. Tradition in all Nations of a Deluge 198. That the Deluge was possible 203. The Israelites did not pass round the Head of the Sinus 229. The Waters did not stand erect 230. Not beat back by a Natural Wind. 232. Alexander's passing the Pamphylian Streights not parallel 233. The Aegyptian Tradition groundless 234. The Jewish the best of all Political Laws p. 239. The Extraordinary Mercifulness of them 240. The great Wisdom of them 242. Objections against particular Laws answered 244. Jewish Rites not derived from the Egyptians 255. Circumcision not from the Aegyptians 257. Nor Vrim and Thummim 259. Priests Linnen Garments not from Aegypt 263. Nor the Cherubim 264. Nor the Ark. 268. Feasts of the New Moon not Aegyptian 269. Nor Washings 271. Nor the Temple 272. Other Nations have Customs as like the Jewish 275. Jews far from
R. p. 37. For he describes these Rivers of Paradise only to find out the situation of it but if these Rivers were such as were defaced in the Deluge one can no more find out the situation of Paradise by this than if he had only mentioned the Man in the Moon Cred. You are much mistaken Moses did not give account of the Rivers to find out Paradise by Philologus to think that the aim of Moses in this description of the Rivers was for men to find out Paradise by for the Holy Scripture does not use to condescend to satisfy Mens Inquisitive Curiosities It was the design of the Holy Ghost in this relation to aquaint Posterity with the Beauty of that happy place which our first Parents unfortunately forfeited but I dare say it was not the least of his Intention to leave minutes for Witty Men to write Books and draw Maps by But I pray was there never a Description made of any thing but only to teach men how to find it by Some things are described that are past and gone as the relation of the actions of Men Sieges Battles Tumults c. and so are impossible to be found other things are related in a shorter manner when they need not be found as Paul was buried at Rome Pompey was conquered at Philippi now it would be non-sense in the Historians to describe exactly the Vault or spot of Ground where the Apostles Body was laid or to shew the particular ground which was covered by each Army So that the Reader if he pleased might go directly to them Should Historians do this it would ●ake their Writings as tedious and ridiculous as a Story that is filled up with nothing but I said and he said and I said again Therefore the Prophets description of Paradise is very proper to give the Reader an account what kind of place Paradise was but as for the finding out the place it is neither necessary for us to know nor for him to relate with such particularity Phil. The next thing Credentius I have to accost you with is The Great Law which Adam and Eve were to be tried by and all Mankind stand or fall by the keeping or the breaking of it Now one would think that a Law upon which effects of so vast a consequence did depend must be some mighty wise precept in it self most admirably conducing to the good of Mankind and the honour and Wisdom of the Legislator but instead of this we find only a poor little trivial thing commanded only forsooth the not eating of an Apple A reasonable man would suppose that these wise couple with the Supralapsarian Knowledge should have had a Law given them for their Trial suitable to their great Capacities some supereminent rules of moral Vertue such as Philosophers talk of and leave for others to practise some noble part of your Christian Charity or seraphick Love which some of your melting Divines make such fine speeches upon these would have been precepts agreeable to that wise and glorious State but such a ludicrous Law as this does not only seem to be an undervaluing to the Wisdom of the Deity but even to Man himself to be dealt with so like a Child as this comes to Cred. I perceive this is an Argument The reasonableness of the Probative Precept which Infidels have made use of in all Ages down from Julian and Celsus to the little Coffee-House and Tavern Wits in our Time But for my part I could never see any strength in this Argument nor any ridiculousness in this Law nor any thing fit to be laughed at but only their foolish management of it As for your exceptions against this Law that it was the prohibition of such a small indifferent Thing and not some great Rule of Morality will you be pleased to take this answer which I am persuaded will satisfy you or will at least silence you from making sport with this passage of Scripture any more It is acknowledged by all that the Mosaical Tables are a good short System of Morality and take in all the general heads of moral Vertues and therefore we will run through these and see if any precept here was so fit to be given Adam for a Trial as that which Moses said he had The Prohibition of an Apple more proper than any thing else To begin with the first Table which relates to the Divine Worship and Reverence Suppose the Worship of false Gods or Image-Worship had been forbidden him Had not that been ten times more ridiculous than the Apple For the Worship of false Gods was a thing which came into the World several hundred of years afterwards when men grew so stupid as to take the Sun and Moon for Gods and began to flatter their Princes into divine honours Neither would the Prohibition of Image-Worship have been any Trial for we can never suppose Adam to have been such a Sot as to have made an Image and to have fell down before it himself Besides Images were long after brought into Worship either to flatter living Princes or else to supply the place of dead ones whom the silly People fansied were become Gods Neither would the prohibition of Perjury or vain Swearing have been a better way of Probation Perjury was a thing not to be heard of till the World was better Peopled when Commerce and Trade came into use when Courts of Judicature were setled when Men began to cheat one another and then to deny it and forswear it And vain Oaths could never have a being in a state of Innocence for they must have their Origin in a corrupt Lying state of the World when Men began to use them to ascertain others they were sincere in this matter though they might be false in other matters till afterwards by frequent use they grew habitual and customary words Neither were any Particularities in the Divine-Worship proper to be commanded them for Temples and Priest and Garments and weekly and Anniversary Holidays c. were things perfectly inconsistent with that Infant state of the World The like may be said of other duties commanded in the second Table How could Adam have honoured his Father and Mother when he never had any What temptation could he possibly have to be guilty of Murder when there was no Man or Woman in the World but his own Wife whom if he should destroy he would not only be excluded from Marriage again but must needs spend his whole Life after in a miserable solitude How could he commit Adultery when Eve was the only Woman upon Earth How could he be guilty of Theft when he was the sole Lord of all the Creation How could he bear false Witness against his Neighbour or Covet his Goods when there was no Neigbour in the World for him to be thus unjust to And so if you go on to the Christian Precepts What part of Charity was he in a capacity of exercising How could he forgive
Rib superfluous in him For to use Thomas Aquinas his comparison this Rib was like the seed of Animals and Vegetables superfluous for the Perfection of the Individuum but necessary for the Generation of the Off-spring The Rib was superfluous to Adam as a private person but necessary as the Origin from which the Woman and all Mankind was to be produced As for the Absurdity you would infer from the smallness of the quantity of matter in a Rib to make a Woman of if you will be pleased to think but of an Acorn or a Mustard-seed you will never use that Argument more Phil. But supposing Credentius we grant you all you require as to the supernatural formation of this Couple yet methinks it does not appear from your Mosaical History that these two were the primogenial Parents of the whole World I am rather apt to think they were but only the first of the Holy Race forsooth the Original Parents of the Jews who could not daign to proceed from that stock which the common herd of Mankind came from and therefore they must have an Origin more immediately from the Deity to imprint a more peculiar 〈…〉 of Dignity and Holiness up 〈…〉 Just like s●me of th● Anci●●● 〈…〉 would pretend to be Bastards to so●●●●od or other that they might ride top gallant upon the necks of other people Praadamitae Lib. 3. Cap. 4. O. R. And for my part I cannot see that the Jewish Legislator had any other design in this relation for he intimates that there were more Men in the World than the two that were thus miraculously created For he perfectly relates two Creations of Mankind one of the common Race of men within the six days Gen. 1.27 and another of the sacred Race of the Jews Gen. 2.9 Before God created Eve he said there was not a Meet help for him that is none of the wicked Ante-Adamical race were fit Wives for that Holy Man When Moses said Cain was a Tiller of the Ground he must needs suppose there were at that time all the Artificers which have relation to Tillage not only Smiths and Carpenters but Millers and Bakers So when Cain murthers his Brother Abel he entices him into the field for fear any body should see him which supposes that they dwelt in some Town where there were too many Eyes to watch him where note the word field does plainly answer to Town or City When Cain says every one that findeth me shall slay me he supposes a great number of men in the World And when God set a mark upon this Parricide for fear any one should slay him it supposes there were many men in the World which might accidentally do it Besides Moses says Cain went into the Land of Nod and married a Wife and builded a City where it must be thought there were Women for him to marry and Men to inhabit his City But Josephus is more plain for he says he struck in with a pack of rascally Robbers and became their Head Now it is plain from all this that Moses would not have it presumed that he wrote here of the primitive Parents of all the World seeing that within a few lines he le ts fall so many Expressions which denote the contrary He designed only to give an account of the Origin of the Jews as other Legislators have given out of other Countries but the later Jews out of partiality to their Country mistook his meaning as if he had delivered the History of the Universal Creation and they have lead the Christians by the Nose ever since Cred. Well I see there is nothing so plain and literal but men of a Paradoxical humour will strain to an odd meaning No Race of Men before Adam One would think the Mosaical Writings were so plain in making Adam and Eve the first of Mankind that no one could either mistake or pervert their meaning till the contrary was maintained from them by the Author of the Praeadamitae or Men before Adam And yet all that that Author could do with the assistance of a great deal of Wit and a considerable degree of Learning was only to put some odd glosses upon a few Texts of Scripture to make them look to his purpose which though they may seem a little surprising as he has dressed them out make nothing at all for him when seriously attended to nay he is so far from proving Praeadamites from Moses that not only the express Assertion of that holy Writer but the whole Tenour of his Book contradicts it It is needless to cast about for Arguments and Passages of Scripture to confute such a wild Paradox for that one passage Gen. 3.20 Must for ever overthrow it And Adam called his Wife's name Eve because she was the Mother of all Living Now if this be Scripture the Hypothesis of the Praeadamites as grounded upon Scripture is necessarily false unless the Scripture can be at the same time false and true So that I strangely wonder at the ingenious Author of that odd Book that he should take no notice of this Text that confutes his whole Hypothesis for he was a Man of too much Scripture learning to be ignorant of the place and one would think of too much sense to be guilty of so palpable a disingenuity The Arguments for the Praeadamites answered But to speak to the Arguments you have urged out of him As for the two several Creations which is pretended in the first and second of Genesis there is nothing like it Not that we need have recourse to Father Simon his Whim of the Scribe-Offices Simon Crit. His V. T. Lib. 1. Cap. 8. as if this was as he pretends a Repetition occasioned by the scatter'd or mixed Copies out of these Repositories But Moses having given an account of the six days Creation in gene●●●●●y in the second Chapter he reas●… the Argument and treats of the 〈…〉 in particular Now to con●… 〈…〉 of Man whom God design'd 〈…〉 of the Creation the more particular concern we must needs have to be informed of our own rise and the great importance this bears in order to a holy Life and a Religious gratitude I think this is no more than might well be expected in this Case But however to deferr a remarkable passage in History and to reassume it to speak more largely of it in another place is a thing common to all Historians But they that ground a new Creation upon that Re-assumption or Repetition may as well make as many Creations as they find the old one mentioned in the Psalms or Prophets or New Testament As for the next Argument of Adam's not finding a help meet for him that does not in the least imply that there were a number of other Men and Women in the World but it only denotes that there was as yet no Woman in the World Which is an expression not unlike that of Ovid. Sanctius his Animal mentisque capacius altae c.
men presently discern this false light and the little Arts which are used in the management of it and consequently do not suffer themselves to be deceived by it they consider these holy things as they are and not as they are wantonly represented all the mischief that this Discourse is like to do is among your little unthinking Things that set up for Wit without common Sense and cry up every thing for extraordinary reason which has nothing in it but Clinch and Jingle I desire therefore the favour of you Sir that you would make use of Argument instead of Raillery whilst we are disputing of these sacred Truths that you would propose your objections with all the strength you can that you would conceal no difficulty you can espy in this divine Relation but I can never endure you should rack and tenter the passages of it clap one part of it incongruously and ridiculously with another only to make sport and banter with it For I am sure Philologus you can find nothing ridiculous in the whole Relation but what you make so Nor do I reprimand you for the only Man that are delinquent this way but it is the general fault of all the Gentlemen of your persuasion who are wont especially to muster up all their Railery and Malice too to expose the Relation of this unfortunate miscarriage of our first Parents and to ridicule the belief of it out of the World Here I find lies the Masterpiece of your Irreligion and a Man must not pretend to set up for Theism without variety of Blasphemy upon this subject Phil. I perceive dear Credentius that this is touching you in a tender place and therefore I shall forbear all reflections which are not necessary to my Argument But I must needs tell you that there are a great many things in this relation of the Fall which you call difficult and we call ridiculous but let them be what they will they are such that will keep a thinking Man from heartily believing your Religion till he sees them handsomly cleared up And the first of these is the Temptation of Eve by the Serpent Now is it not a little odd Credentius that such an ugly Beast as a Serpent should venture to accost such a fine Lady in all her Supralapsarian Beauty O. R. p. 39 40 c. I pray what kind of Language did Serpents then speak for we find they have no other than that of hissing now Methinks Eve should have run away from such a speaking Beast faster than from an Apparition and never have enter'd into a Conference with it Why should a Serpent I pray of all the Beasts of the field have all this Reason and Elocution bestow'd upon it Methinks a Lyon or a Bull would have made a good full-mouthed Orator but for a pitiful Snake to have such mighty Talents of Rhetorick and Perswasion is really very surprizing But supposing you say that the Devil possessing the Organs of this Serpent tempted the Woman I answer I think he made as silly a choice of a Body as ever Devil did to perform this Temptation in To have seen such an odd kind of stupid Beast of a sudden turned rational to hear that speak which was dumb before would probably have scared the poor Woman out of her Wits she would quickly I suppose have left the Devil and the Apple together and have betook her self to her Heels and her Husband to secure her Besides here is not a word of the Devil 's possessing the Body of the Serpent in the Relation of Moses for he imputes the Woman's being circumvented wholly to the Subtilty of the Serpent this is only a shift of your Divines to bring in the Devil as the Poets used to do the Gods to help them out at a dead lift Come Credentius what do you say to all this Cred. Not unreasonable that the Devil should tempt Mankind in the form of a Serpem Say Sir the best thing I can say is to say my Prayers for you to God to deliver you from this hardned infidelity But in the mean time I will answer this terrible Argument of yours as satisfactorily as I can 1. Therefore I assert that the Tempter which deceived our first Parents was the Devil some wicked malicious Spirit that envied the good of Mankind and those extraordinary favours which God has so plentifully bestowed on our first Parents which enclined him to tempt them to disobedience thereby to bring them into the same forlorn condition with himself and the other fallen Angels That the Serpent is only mentioned whose Body the Devil made use of is owing to a Metonymy common in the Hebrew Tongue which uses the Instrumental for the Efficient Cause and the Efficient for the Instrumental of which multitude of Instances may be given out of the Scripture Thus the Angels which God employ'd about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrha are called by the name of the Lord. Gen. 1. and what they say and do is said to be done by the Lord. So on the other side the Divine Predictions of God-Almighty are said to be the words of the Prophets which he employ'd as Instruments to speak them Thus Amos 1. 1. The Words of Amos who was among the Herdsmen of Tekoa c. So Jer. 1. what is called v. 2. The Word of the Lord is called v. 1. The Words of Jeremiah the Son of Hilkiah So by the Word by Faith and by the Sacraments we are said to be saved whereas these are only the Instruments God makes use of in our Salvation So the Ministers of the Gospel are said to bind and to loose whereas 't is God only which does it by their Ministry Therefore it is no wonder if by the same Metonymy what is spoken or done by the Devil is said to be spoken or done by the Serpent whose Organs he usurped But further it is plain that it was the Devil which managed this Deceit not only from the Incongruousness of a Brute Beast's over-reaching Mankind in his highest pitch of Reason but from the Attestation of the Holy Scripture it self The Author of the Book of Wisdom who well understood the Doctrines and Traditions of the Jewish Church and the sense of the holy Scripture tells us expresly that by the Envy of the Devil Death came into the World Wisd 2.24 And our blessed Saviour who was a better Explainer of the Scriptures tells us the Devil was a Murderer from the beginning or the first Creation alluding to his mischievous destruction of Mankind that he is a Lyar and the Father of Lyes both in the first and all the following Temptation of Mankind Nay farther than this the Devil is expresly in Scripture called the Serpent and the Dragon was cast out that old Serpent called the Devil and Satan Rev. 12.9 and he laid hold on the Dragon that old Serpent which is the Devil and Satan Rev. 20.2 All which places are undoubted references to his first