sauing Priests of the Seigniory would be the the first weary of it For if I knowe their disposition they are as vnpatient as any men to bee at controlment and moste of all by a poore Minister It hath alwaies bene the practise of y e subtile Serpent who that hee might vndermine the authorye of Gods Embassadours and bring the Messengers of the most highest vnto disgrace to lift vppe some who neglectinge the moste essentiall duetyes of a Pastoure and Elder in feeding the flockes and being a Pattern in their whole life and example vnto them are wont to climbe into the ambitious throne of exercising a vsurped ecclesiasticall Dominion and a Lordship ouer their fellow-ministers that whilste by their place and pompe they might amaze the people as beeing men of great learning and wisedome and might also by their authority make the poore Ministers as the aunswearer sayth Priuat Ministers to speake when they wil wryte to what they list and to be their Commissaries cryer y t is their mās man to promulgat his sentence of excommunication at his pleasure hee might also bring to passe that which the Prophet Jeremy complayneth of in both The Prophets prophesie for reward and the Priestes exercise dominion * by their meanes and my people loue it so and what will they doe in the ende Which we see hath not onely won much vnto the cause of Sathan in popery but also it keepeth much power vnto him amongest those who do professe the Gospell For by this meanes it commeth to passe that they will goe 5. mile to heare a Lord preach when they will hardly come to Church to heare their owne Pastour By this meanes they becomme so irreuerent or rather sawcie with their Pastour that they care no more for his admonition and rebuke then for the bleating of a sheepe by this meanes they maye call him before a Commissarye a lay-man as he speaketh they may fetch out Excommunications thicke and three-folde if hee appeare not and so not only not haue him not to exercise dominion ouer them which Peter forbiddeth but also be Lordes ouer their Pastour beeing but priuate personnes which the lawe of reason disaloweth Which pollicy of Sathan although it become odious in the sight almost of all men but especially of true and louing subiects who are greeued that some not onelye exercise Lordship ouer theire fellow-ministers but also pearche so high as they pray vpon the right of princes whilste they forsoothe may not eate flesh in Lent or on a Fryday but by a Byshoypes lycense yet this man who hath giuen his tong leaue to reuile the Ministers with diuers slaunders reproches cannot content himselfe with that but must open his mouth against the due authority of the Ministers of Jesus Christe In which respect wee account our selues bounde by the Canonicall obedience which we owe vnto y e Archbishop of our soules Jesus Christ according to y e Canons which he hath made in his worde first to shew how this man disordereth y e questiō according to his maner voweth consent as it seemeth with the Jesuits in these his assertions proofs and then hauing discussed his allegations to confirm the plain truth by holy authority of scripture and worthy witnes of ancient times In the entrance therfore the Answerer is not content only to fly from y e issue whether according to the word of God the minister shold exercise the censures of the Church according to y ◠word of God which with vs is executed by Commissaries meere lay-men vnto another thing namely what inconueniences the excommunication committed to the pastor might bring but also to set vpon a matter neuer affirmed by vs that a minister should without the rest of the ecclesiastical senate perform this thing His agreement with the Papists may appeare manifestly by their Annotation the 4. ver of 5. cap. 1. Cor. Their wordes are these Though he commanded the Acte shoulde be done in the face of the Church as such sentences and censures bee at this day executed also yet the iudgement and authority of giuing sentence was in himselfe and not in the whol multitude as the Protestants and populer sects affirm Wherfore seeing his cause is that which is betweene the sworne enimies of GOD and his Church we are not to fear but the truth which hath preuayled so often against them shall also carry the Garland from this newe Wrestler His first reasons are drawne from the inconueniences which hee thinketh will come vnto the Church by this means as requiring rather like a Ciuilian not a diuine what is safe then what is according to God his wil Amongst which he demaundeth whether the Authour had not rather be vnder the forme that nowe is then vnder the infinite dictatorship of his owne minister which I aunswere by another Question why should the ministers censures proceeding by the equall authority of an Eldership vpon causes determined by God his worde in a small volume be more infinite then y e Commissaries who cannot but proccede according to the infinite and contradictorye Canons of their Law who can excommunicate vpon non apparaunce for a matter of 12 pence Is it liker that one Minister shal haue many elders more tied to his wil pleasure then one Commissary his own affections Againe may not their appeale from one Eldership to a Conference or assemblie of many Ministers and Elderships be as safe as from the Commissary to another Byshop And if it were granted that the Byshop should haue authoritye in euerye particuler Churche yet with the Ministers consent vnlesse he will iustle one lawe against another why were it not more reasonable safe then as it is nowe in the Byshoppe alone Seeing then the Minister might haue more particuler knowledge of the causes in his Congregation then the Byshop and yet if hee were rash the Byshops wisedome might stay him And if the Byshoppe shoulde suspende the Minister vppon abuse of his authoritye yet hee were not at the same poynt he was before because then they which did not abuse their authoritye mighte exercise it still And if the Byshoppe dwell in the Parish and had preheminence yet hee shoulde not draw the execution of Discipline to himselfe onely but to holde it in common with him But what doe I answering his cauelles agayuste the Lawe seeing I doubt not but the Abstractor will soone aunswere his cauill in this behalf For the fountayns which are in his Booke already are not yet dammed vp by the answerer Wherefore I passe to his incōuenience which he fetcheth from the want of discretion in y ◠Minister which is What if hee vpon want of discretion doe excommunicate some greate peere of his Parish vppon some surmized cause whose indignation may turne the whole church to great mischeefe To this I answere that vnlesse the Byshops seat aboue a Pastors be so sanctified as Hierome sayth by humain constitutions as that it can alwaies proceede with
seruice to euil kinges he addeth least this long treatise shoulde seeme altogeather impertinent that he could not chuse but oppose to the fanaticall spirites and traiterous allegations both of these dangerous innouators of the rebellious Papistes But alas why are we poore Ministers as he calleth vs before whom a man of meane estate wil not regard so dangerous He answereth because we would haue our soueraignes kingdome to be holden at the chiefe inferior magistrates the people or Presbyteries deuotion Oh heauen O earth O Lorde our God the searcher of the secreats of all hearts the author of the holy discipline we seek reueale we besech thee our horrible treason bring vpon vs our children for euer vtter cōfusion in this life in y ◠life to come if this wickednes be either intended thought vpon or be likely to follow vpon the discipline which we seeke or vpon our desire of the same If you O you holy fathers and ministers of God which haue writetn for defended mayntained with great danger attained vnto this may not cleare our cause by y ◠vn fained fidelitye which you haue shewed to christian Princes yet let your wisedome experience Oh you Princes and Magistrates which haue receiued it honored it tried it beare witnesse vnto the innocēcie of this cause Shal that which hath bin a friend to magistrates when they were enemies to it be enemies to Magistrats when they should be friends vnto it Shal that which D. Whitgift himself confesseth namely That such Seniors were but long ago worne out of vse For which he alleadgeth the sentence of Ambrose before alleadged shal that I say called for of that holye man become traiterous pernitious to the state Can the office of an Archbishop in the second place of the land doing al that alone and more in Church-matters then the seniours hauing with it ciuil power and authority be free from this suspition and cannot Ministers and Elders of base account in the world medling onely as the Apostles with spirituall matters that according to the word of God be void of al surmize of such vilanous practise can their counsels be accounted safe where none come but themselues whō they wil who are deuoted to their honor kingdome ecclesiasticall And shal the ministers consultations be so fit for such practises where so many Elders as he sayth lay men of all degrees may be present where the Magistrates may haue both their eyes their eares Whose decrees in al matters of greatest waight of Excōmunication Election Abdication ending of common controuersies must come vnder the conscience of all men yea whose whole acts and counsels may easily be seene by the Magistrate who may force them to a new course if they doe any thing preiudiciall to the estate The good king Iehoshaphat according to the Word of God and the example of his father Dauid ordeined besides the Priests and Leuites in all Cities the cheefe of Families for the iudgementes of the Lord and for the matters of God besides others appoynted for ciuill matters called the kings matters Now shall wee thinke that hee coulde not see into the matters of a kingdome and the safety thereof aswell as this man The Princes of Iuda at their returne when their state was subiect vnto so many dangers when their Prophets conspired against them yet vphelde the Ecclesiasticall Presbytery to threaten excommunication and seperation from Gods people to the obstinate sinners as wel they thē-selues did confiscation of goodes and ciuill punishment neither were they euer iealous ouer their estate Wherefore seeing we haue such a cloude of witnesses of these tymes and of former both vnder the law and vnder the Gospel we need not feare but their lying irōforhead in charging vs with such traiterous opinions shalbe manifest to all and shall tourne vppon their owne heades For manifestation whereof let the Magistrates consider what is written of them highly derogatorie vnto their estate and freedome which they make them beleue that they maintaine First they say the forme and maner of Church gouernment may be altered by the Magistrate then they say the externall gouernment of the Church vnder a Christian Magistrate must be according to the forme of gouernment used in the common-wealth Which is flat contrary to that that the Christian Magistrate may alter at their good pleasure Which also driueth the Queenes moste excellent maiesty eyther to part her Crowne with some other or else muste make one Archbishop not only of byshops but also ouer Archb. y ◠in the Church there maye be a Monark as wel as in the common-wealth Againe when they say y ◠Archb. is contayned vnder S. Paules Bishop they leaue it not in the Magistrates power to take away his iurisdiction how daungerous so euer it be to her estate Agayne let them consider into what a low place they bring the Magistrate into in the Church when expounding the place of the Corinthes of him they make him go after the teacher therfore much more after the Archbi Hauing therfore noted these their open contradictions most absurd opinions preiudicial indeed to her maiesties authority let vs ere we passe from this general what the forme of ecclesiastical gouernment is consider once againe of his assertion and see whether it bewray not manifest ignorance containe not cōtradiction repugnance in it selfe and be not highly derogatory to Christ his scriptures His words are these pag. 192. Now as concerning the inward gouernment of the Church of Christ by his spirite God working in his children by the Ministers of his writtē reuealed word also touching the essential poynts of the outwarde policy gouernment of the church consisting in the true teaching of the word of God in the due administration of sacraments according to christs holy institution in the aduancement furthering of vertue with the beating downe of sinne and impiety and in keeking the Church in a quiet vnity and good order there is no difference of opinion amongst vs. And a little after we affirm that no such precise exact forme of external gouerment of the Church by discipline as they depaint it out is so much as by any exāple recōmended vnto vs in scripture but much lesse commanded as a continuall platforme for euer to be followed In which assertion omitting the nakednes of it armed with no proofe out of the scripture or any good reason let vs see how it sheweth such grosse ignoraunce as is not to be lucked for in a man of his gifts for it deleareth that he can not distinguish betweene the cause instrument and meanes of a thing and the thing it selfe betweene gouernment and the essentiall partes of gouernment and the fruits of it For gouerment Ecclesiasticall that is the spirituall administration of Christ by the order and instruments of his Church which he hath ordayned is a different thing from the truth of
in Fraunce the substaunce of Discipline shall be out of the worde confirmed and the controuersies betweene vs equally and orderly decided We will also be bounde to subscribe as they are His first quotation out of the Adm. doth set down that in a different letter which is not there to be found Which practize is done onely to disgrace vs vniusâ—ly with the Magistrate The other two sentences though we iudge them somewhat hardly set downe yet they must be charitably interpreted according to the course of their Booke the first of the trueth of Discipline not of doctrine the other of Ministers so called and inabled as God his worde doth allowe The rest is worth no aunswere the matter beeing handled before and Gualter being a party with you against M. Iewell and M. Nowel in that point though againste you in the question of Church election Now in stead of this heape of disagreementes which are at one with them selues let him accorde these following drawne from the wryters who are of his iudgement No man for any crime is to be secluded from any law fall vocation if he repent him and become a new man and there be no generall commaundements contrary herevnto But this doctrine is consonant to the whole course of the Gospell Yet we all hold that Traytours are not to be admitted Byshops or of the Queenes Guarde They maintain this speach of Ambrose on the 4. of the Ephes In the beginning it was permitted to euery one to preach the Gospel baptize and expound the Scriptures but when the Churche was enlarged certain Parishioners were appoynted and goucrnors and other officers ordayned in the Church Yet now Ministers maye not preach without a lisence It is defended by the former Booke that The worde of God is as effectuall when it is read as when it is preached and reading is preaching yet the Booke of Common-prayer preferreth Preaching before Homilies And himselfe sayth that Preaching is the most excellent meanes to ingender fayth This man condemneth and reiecteth Doctours as new yet the former booke Page 425. sayth that by auncient wryters A Catechistes office was necessarie in the Church and distinct from the Pastour The same booke fol. 700. in the marginall note hath Nothing ought to be reade vnder the name of Scripture but the Canonicall Contrary to the booke of Common prayer which appoynteth the Apocripha to be reade vnder the name of holy scripture Iewel saith that for one bishop to haue authority ouer an other is neyther by Christ Peter nor Paule nor by any right of God his word Yet they do by preaching and wryting still maintaine it by the examples of Peter Timothy and Titus In the aunswere to the authority of Peter Martyr it is sayde that in our Church religion is onely reformed to the quicke But the examiner sayth they see weightyer things in the Church wherat they may be greeued as other good men are Now we come to his questions which althogh they he captious and therefore by lawe they are not to bee aunsweared yet to shewe our sincerity in that which we holde we will make him an aunswere To the first we saye Discipline touching the substaunce is fully described out of the worde of God in the booke of discipline the treatise of ecclesiastical gouernment and in the most of the soundest writers of our time The second is answered partly by the former partly by this treatise In steed of this we aske him what be y â— writings which haue coÌ„futed by the scripture all those foresayd godly learned writings To the third we aunswere it is no sounde diuinity to exclude Christian Princes from their gouerment in Church-matters Concerning Excommunication he hath his answere before To the two other clawses let the Papists answere for they are malitiously imputed vnto vs. And we demaund of him whether it be sound diuinity that when the Prince will eate flesh in Lent or do such like shee must haue a Dispensation from an Archbyshop And that the writes of his Courts euen in causes ciuill and matters of instaunce should be in his owne name and not in the name of her most excelleÌ„t Maiesty The fourth is aunswered in the Treatise of the Eldership And we aske of him what pregnant proofe he hath either from scripture or Father that Ecclesiasticall Gouernment shoulde be exercised in a wholle Diocesse by a Chancelor or Commissarye beeing a meere lay-man To the 5. and 6. both wee aunswere That rebaptization is condemned by the Worde of God and that those hee speaketh of be maried folkes And wee require him to prooue by the Worde of God that in case of the necessity which they pretend a Woman may baptize And to prooue by the same that men may be forbidden to mary in Lent or such like times The seuenth is aunswered in that to the 5. and 6. And we demaunde of him how they can prooue it lawfull to admit a Popish priest fallen from the Gospell and still vnapt to teach To the eyght we aunswere there is the like reason of the Supper and of Baptisme And we require him to prooue by the Worde of God that a Deacon may baptize and when he hath proued that let him proue why hee may not minister the Supper also To the ninth we answere that to the Ministers there may be diuersity of rewardes giuen so long as none haue to little nor any too much And we require him to prooue by the Word of God that a Minister of the Gospell may carry the pompe of men of estate To the tenth we aunswere as is set downe in the Treatise that a Minister should be apt to teach We would haue him proue that any other may preache who is not apt to teach To the Eleuenth we answere affirmatiuely and require him to prooue by the Scriptures that an Archbyshop may put Preachers to silence for not subscribing to that which is not required by the lawe To the twelfth we aunswere it is not lawfull for one to be thrust out of his Ministery for shewing modestly in his sermons the inconuenience of vnleauened breade in the Lords Supper that all vsury as wee speake it whither biting or nibbling is vnlawfull And we require of him to prooue by the Worde of God that it is tollerable to suffer Drunkardes whoremongers ignoraunt men of occupation in the Ministry and for not subscribing where Law doth not enforce it or for the not vsing of some ceremonie to turne out godly learned Ministers And make a pitifull seperation of the Pastor and the flocke The Lorde giue vs to be of one minde and wherein we agree let vs proceede by the rule of loue FINIS Eccles 12. Iud. 9. Psalme 2. 2. Chro 16. 9 See admon ad lib. concord de mod agend Mat. 24. 48 Beza praefat before the new Testament Hermonia confess page 53. gal confess art 29. Genes 2.
¶ A COVNTER-POYSON Modestly written for the time to make aunswere to the obiections and reproches wherewith the aunswerer to the Abstract would disgrace the holy Discipline of CHRIST Luke 19. vers 40. ¶ I tell you if those should holde their peace the stones woulde crye AT LONDON Printed by Robert Walde-graue The Authour to the Reader IT is sayde of Solomon who had no small experience in the course of al things that much reading is wearinesse vnto the flesh but it is most true euen in our owne experience that to deale with the vntamed and vntaught reason of man is a vanity vexation of spirit vnto those who loue the truth For what cunning shiftes and exquisite variety of subtleties haue they to decline the mighty strooke of the word of God And it is no maruaile if we poore dullardes be not only made blunt but almost worne awaye with encountring with such tough ware The onely comfort we haue is that when the diuell disputed yea continued disputing so long with the Son of God him self hee was at the length made to retire with those milde and yet most powrefull wordes The Lord rebuke thee Sathan Which most auncient example as it hath greatly sustayned me in this toyle of this tedious time wherein I haue had occasion to goe bare-foote through this quicke-set hedge of thornes which the aunswerer to the Abstract hath set in our way so it doth not a little grieue me that I am iealous ouer my selfe that I haue not followed in such measure as I ought that moderation which the sonne of God The prince of Angels kept when he encountred with the deuil notwithstanding I deale as I hope with a brother My comfort is that it shall be manifest that in steede of taking occasion where it was not giuen I haue swallowed downe that as sweet which is most loathsome and bitter I haue also stayd my course within the compasse of the first treatise and the daungerous appendix annexed to the same partly because I suppose he wil not abuse so much the Scripture as to wrest the defence of pluralities of Ciuill offices in Ministers of God his word of sole excommunication which is already handled in this treatise by the scripture and partly because the rest will for the most part pertaine properly to the worthye Lawyer who hath begun this controuersie and shall by the grace of God see a good end of the same The Lord bring vs all to be of one minde and hart in the truth A FAITHFVLL BROTHER to the Christian Reader THE FEAREFVL CONDItion in regard of our sinnes of this our age and in this our Noble Countrie may make thee good Christian reader and all who loue the peace of SION the flowrishing estate of this coÌ„monwealth vvith heauie soule and deepe sighes of heart to bevvaile the horrible wickednes of this land euen yet to this day increasing if thou doe but consider that the hard and stonie hearts being continually vvatered vvith the svveete and heauenly devv of Gods most fatherly admonitions forethreatnings from day to day dropping dovvne by his messingers rising earlye is rather hardened then any whit mollified or humbled So that neither the fearfull signes in heauen and other creatures as it were by the breach of nature weeping ouer vs nor the horrible howling and quaking of the earth trembling and fearing vnder vs hath as yet brought forth anye further sorrowe of our sinnes then that being amazed and astonished at the suddaines woondring at the straungenes and for a time while our heartes did beat lightly sorrowing at the fearfulnes thereof we made a shew as though we would haue turned to the Lord but alas we soone became like the children of Israell vvho beeing put in feare with the greate terrour which God shevved in pronouncing the Lawe in mount Syna did promise to heare obey Moses vvho being but fortie daies and fortie nights absent from them and for them vvith the Lord they fel avvay to their owne imaginations Since this hath the Lorde vvith straunge sicknesses at diuers times diuersly visited vs in our bodies yea our very hearts haue bene smitten vvith the fear of foraine practises yet vvho is it that hath rightly ackovvledged the hand of the Lorde Aboue all other thinges this is to be soberly vvaied with the equall ballaunce of an vpright conscience that euen novv on the one side the common enemy to the state and Church of God among vs hath very villanously and traiterously vovved himselfe to put out the happy light of this most peaceable kingdome euen by desperate and slauishe bloud-suckers allured and besotted vvith the fayre and favvning face of a man hayred like a VVoman of these Locustes the Iesuites who haue stinges in their tailes beeing like vnto Scorpions to take away the precious life of our moste gratious Queene ELIZABETH our most dear soueraigne the ioy and peace of all this Land the Lord for his Sonnes â—ake continue her blessed dayes among vs and coÌ„found al their horrible practizes on the other side like as it was in Hierusalem vvhen Titus besieged it vvhat little faith and true loue euen from the tankard-bearer to men of high degree he that seeth any thing must needes behold and tremble But O that I vvere able to povvre oute my very heart and that riuers of vvaters mighte flovv out of mine eyes that I might sufficiently bevvaile the desolation of Sion among vs yea I coulde vvishe that my life though it vvere by a thousand deaths might redeeme the breaches of the Church of God among vs. VVhose hart doth not bleede to thinke that in so peaceable daies so blessed a time vnder so Godly and religious a Princesse euen when the fire of our neighboures most rufull miseries doth flame about our eares yea and that the Lorde hath almoste drawne out his vvrathfull svvord against vs euery man follovveth the pride couetousnesse vvhoredome drunkennesse and lustes of his own heart and no man remembreth Ioseph The barres are filled vvith pleadinges and the streetes are full of the cries of the poore fulnes of meat and contempt is among vs and vvho considereth Yet if this our sin vvere only against men and not against God there migh be some hope But vvhen the mouth of the blasphemous svvearer is not tied vp the handes of the idolatrous generation of Atheiestes prophane persons be not chained VVhen the moste holye and precious vvorde of God is manifestlye contemned the ioyfull and heauenly tydings of saluation so negligently and vngratefully troden vnder foote the true and faithfull messengers pursued atained and diuers wayes afflicted then if the olde worlde for malitious imaginations Sodom and Gomorrha for pride fulnesse of meate and vnmercifulnesse If IerusaleÌ„ for abusing Gods prophets wilfulnes were wofully distroyed vvhat may wee poore careles people look for if we do not repent but as it is almost vniuersally feared speedy ruine vtter desolation O ye shepherds
which cannot be reached vnto then to be sober to be Cosmios that is comely in attire to bee no fighter are so likewise seeing that is not onely bounde vp by the Apostle by the same bond of necessity but also is the onely quality which the Apostle requireth wherein a man fit for the ministery differeth from anye other good sounde Christian or from those which are to be chosen Deacons Further seeing y ◠Apostle requireth that he must hold fast the faithfull word which is according to doctrine that he may be able to exhort with sound doctrine conuince the gainsayers And therein plainly deliuereth not only wherein they may but wherein they must be able to doe these thinges he directly ouerthroweth this mans building in the aire which hee thinketh no man can reach vnto Lastly 1 That which holdeth proportion with the proper actions of diuers members of a naturall body y ◠cannot be accounted an Idaea seeing nature doth not only tend but attaineth vnto that 2 But that proper teaching which is the peculier work of the teacher and that proper exhorting which is the peculier worke of a Pastor doe holde that proportion as is manifestly set downe by the Apostle Rom. 12. 4. 7. 8. 3 Therefore muche lesse can this aptnesse to teache which is common to them both be reckoned for an Idaea Now this thus necessarily concluded being granted notwithstanding it wold follow therupon that the issue which he tendereth is also therwithal established namely that it is simplye vnlawfull to admit them to be ministers of y ◠Sacramentes which cannot teach yet to shewe the riches of the truth it shall be further confirmed by these reasons following 1 That which is contrary to the whole course of y ◠scripture both of y ◠old and new Testament is simply vnlawfull 2 But to admit the administration of signs to such as are vnfit to administer y ◠doctrin by preaching is contrary to the whol course of the Scripture 3 Therefore it is simply vnlawfull The 2. part of which reasō is manifest by this inductiō Noe y e preacher of righteousnes had the building of the Ark to which our baptism answereth So Abra ham was y ◠minister of Circūcisiō being also a prophet of God So y ◠Jews were baptized vnto Moses who preched y e law So the Priestes offred Sacrifices who were commaunded not to drinck strong drincke That they might teach the children of Israell all the statutes which the Lorde had commaunded them by the hande of Moses So all they which were Ministers of propheticall signes were also Prophetes So in the Gospell the baptisme of John implyed the ministerie of his doctrine For the text sayth Those which heard him were baptized So the general commission of the Apostles is to preach and Baptize And when they were sent to baptize in Judea they were also sent to preach So in y e ordinary ministry whatsoeuer Elders went further then ruling onely were occupied in the Word and doctrine diuers from which seeing he can shew no worthy example out of the Scripture the former induction is full Secondly 1 It is simply vnlawful to admit such to be Ministers of the Sacramentes which the Lord reiecteth from being Ministers of the Sacrifices 2 But such as are so vnapt to preach as by that meanes the people lacke knowledge the Lord reiecteth from y ◠ministery of the sacrifices Ose 4. 6. 3 Therefore we ought much more to reiect them from the ministery of the Sacramentes because the ebbe of knowledge vnder the law ought to be full Sea vnder the gospell Thirdly 1 If the Lorde in the scriptures of the new Testament hath giuen no commandement to the ordinary Ministers of the Word to administer the Sacraments but vnder the commandement of preaching the Worde then is it vnlawfull to admit a Minister not apt to teach 2 But hee is not able to shewe any one place of a commaundement of an ordinary ministry of the Sacraments not comprehended vnder the commaundement of the preaching Ministery 3 Therefore vnlesse he would bring into Gods haruest such an one as he hath not hyred it is simply vnlawfull to admitte him to administer the Sacraments which cannot preach If he obiect these words of Christ Do this we answere that it is not to be referred onely to the deliuery of breade but to al the actions going afore of preaching blessing and breaking c and therefore the Apostle sayth that when we administer the Lordes Supper we preach Christs death till he come Lastly seeing by Ephes 4. verse 11. all the ordinary offices which serue for the gathering together and the building of the Church by the publique ministery of diuine seruice is eyther the office of a Pastor or a Doctor it followeth that none be admitted to administer the Sacraments which can not preach because prophesying that is preaching is the worke that is proper and common to them both Rom. 12. 6. From whence also floweth their seuerall duties of exhortation peculier to the Pastour and of an especial manner of teaching proper to the Doctour Rom. 12. 6. 7. To his demaunde following Whether so many Churches as cannot obtaine learned Ministers should be destitute of publique Prayers and administration of Sacramentes And to y ◠after That so they would become in short time as heathen and Painims or as sauadge as the wilde Irish And againe that the French Churches Tolerate certain congregations wher they haue no publike sermons but prayers with certaine exhortations To these ioyntly we aunswere the church can follow no better direction then the holy Apostles haue deliuered vnto them in this behalfe who hauing by the preaching of the gospell gathered many churches did not ordain insufficiēt ministers because at the first they had not those which were sufficient but leauing them partly to the ministery of others where they mighte find it partly to the quickning of their faith by their graue and sober meetings for praier and mutual exhortation they then returned and ordained them Elders church by church whē men were grown fit and meet for the same Act. 14. 21. 22. 23. So in the old Testament when for y ◠sins of y e people y e work of preaching was rare precious y e prophets of God sent not forth reading vnlearned Leuites but rather gathered y e people to thē on y ◠saboths new-moons to be instructed of them 2. King 4. 22. and in this sense and no other is the constitution of the French Church to be taken seeing they make no mention of the Sacramentes but of Prayer and Exhortations which in another manner may bee done with due caution of priuate persons in priuat assemblies Which thing if it were so carried of the Apostles in their times of persecution and troubles howe much more oughte it to bee among vs in the time of peace where beside the dayly increase
of preaching Ministers if those already which we haue may be suffered freely to execute their office matters may be so ordered till thorough the blessing of God all Churches bee replenished that no man neede to goe aboue fiue myle to heare a sermon and for the administration of the Sacramentes the Church with the consent of the Godly Magistrates may take such order if it shall so please them that euerye Parish may haue the Sacramentes ministred by a preaching Minister and so they maye bee still edified in the holy fayth and not as hee grosely and vngodlye imagineth of the people of God become more sauadge then Painims and wilde Irish The next is worthy of no other answere then is already made But where hee sayth They are not to bee counted dumb and silent who in their Churches doe exhort dehort comfort and in some degree instruct their Parishioners If he meane those dueties as the Apostle vnderstandeth them to be peculier to the man of God 2. Tim. 3 wee graunt he saith true for so they cannot be seperated from the true resoluinge and opening of the Scriptures But if he meane as his words import by comparing with the rashe dealing of suche as take vppon them to preache beeing not inabled thereunto then must wee needes say that that voyce which is lowde ynoughe in the house euen in the mouth of the Misteres of the family who must Open her mouth with wisdome and haue the doctrine of grace in her lippes Is not lowde ynough for the Pastors of Gods church who must lift vp their voyce alowde to shewe Israell their sinnes and Gods people their transgressions and that the riches of the Worde with wisedome to admonish and exhort one another which the Apostle maketh common to all grounded Christians is not competent for the Scribe who shoulde bee prepared for the Kingdome of God and bring out of his storehouse thinges bothe newe and olde that hee may bee a Pastor according to God his heart to feede them with knowledge and vnderstanding Touching the want of liuing in some Parishes for which cause hee sayth The Byshoppes haue ordered some of meane ability If they obserued the rule of the Apostle that at this time Their aboundaunce mighte supply others lacke that also others aboundance might be for their lacke that as it is written hee that gathered much hath nothing ouer and hee that gathered little had not the lesse Then that obiection neede not bee made In his large discourse to salue the sore of the vnpreaching ministry wherein hee laboureth to disprooue the Abstractors assertion who affirmeth that preaching of the Word is the ordinary meanes to worke fayth hee hath many wordes but no reason For as one wel beateÌ„ leaueth him that mastereth him and turneth to some easier match in steede of proouing out of the Scriptures that reading of the word is ordinarily so honoured that it should bee an ordinary instrument to worke fayth hee prooueth by many places of Scripture a cleane other thing namely that the reading of the Worde receiueth some other blessing then that which is extraordinary which euerye one will graunte him For they are no small blessinges that by publique reading priuate exercise of the word men are prepared made fit for the publike ministry and afterwards are continually quickned in al Christian holines and confirmed in the publike doctrine which is al the sence of the places which he alledgeth And it is as if one shold reason Apollo watered y â— Corinthes therfore Paul only did not plant theÌ„ Where he asketh why Moses is read euery Sabboth in the Synagogues we answere to the former ends and more fully with S. Iames that euery sabboth day he might be preached Neither doth he in any sort satiffie that which is obiected out of the Apostle Rom. 10. seeing hee speaketh of such Preachers as are publikely and solemnly sent verse 15 which we hope he will not vnderstande of bare reading and of such as the Prophet Esaie with admiration of the blessing of the Gospel crieth out How beautifull are the feete of those which preach peace of those which preach good thinges As for his obiection Of many thousandes in the tyme of persecution by bare reading conuerted and that we are not to saye that the people where they haue no preaching Minister be saued by myracle It is not worth an answere For besides that the blessing of God is extraordinary by raysing vp the light of the Gospell in so palpable darkenesse which had couered the whole earth in stead of a thousand he can not shew one who by bare reading without the preachinges then vsed in secreat and the open publishing of the truth by the Martyrs at their death or by ordinary preaching going afore as in the dayes of King Edward of blessed memory haue beene truly conuerted vnto the Lorde In the other poynt he is forced to goe against y â— wool For whereas else-where though to an ill ende namely to dazell the eyes of the people that they shoulde not see the plague of an ill ministery he doth worthely commend the running of the Gospell vnder her Maieâ—â—ies happy gouernment yet heere he is fayne to as ill a purpose farre more vnworthely to abase the same as though preaching were so scant as the Lorde knoweth it is very scant and both Country and Citie doe lament the rarenes of it as that men can not haue fayth but by reading onely which is farre otherwise seeing they ought to haue at the least foure sermons euery yeare it is as if complayning of a great dearth one should aske how they liue that starue not As good is his reason out of Angust The scriptures containe all thinges necessarye to saluation therefore men may ordinarily haue faith by bare and naked reading As materiall is his demaund following whether the declaring and publishing of the Worde be not a kinde of declaration and preaching of the Lordes will vnto vs. And that which he sayth afterwardes of Homilyes that although in a strickt signification they be not preaching yet in some sence they are as well as a Sermon penned is vttered forth to the people for so it may be replyed that the insensible creatures preach and publishe God his will and that the sheepehardes preached though not as he sayth in a strikt signification So women and Children may make a declaration of the wil of God and yet not apt to preach as the scripture requireth of euery Minister Further if he had remembred that the Apostle maketh so great a difference between his owne writing preaching as when he writeth to the Romanes he desireth earnestly to preach vnto them also he need not haue maruailed if good men make such seperation between the reading of good writinges of men the liuely preaching of the holye worde of God especially considering he can not be ignoraunt that the one proceedeth onely from the common gyftes
of the knowledg to read of an audible voice and the other from the especiall gyftes of interpretatiō of doctrine exhortation giuen by the holy ghost as peculierly for the Church-ministerye Rom. 12. 1. Cor. 12. Ephes 4. And if he had not forgotten the ancient question after y e reading of Demostenes oration O what if you had heard him selfe speake it He would not haue maruayled y ◠God hath attributed the first fruits or rather first spring of our fayth to y e liuely preaching of the Worde James 1. which in that respect is compared to sowing Mat. 13 to begetting James 1. to grafting 1. Cor. 3. This trueth that all Ministers ought to be apt to teach as it is moste manifest and cleare by the Scriptures so it hath witnesse from the Church euen when it was fallen almost to decay but specially when-soeuer any worthye seruice of God florished as may appeare by their decrees canons sentences following few only of many being sparingly takē for breuities sake Concil Carthag 4. in y e rules of examining a Bish according to the 1. Tim. 3. amongst the other proprieties there mentioned it is required to be sought If he be learned if he be instructed in the law of God If he be Cautus sensibus scripturae warie in the sence of the scriptures si in dogmatibus exercitatus it he be exercised in doctrines opinions or sentences meaning of all sortes that he may be able to put difference And in the Canons of Pope Celestine the 1. Can. reproouing a superstition in Ministers in squaring their outwarde attire to the phrase of certaine places of Scripture We haue learned sayth he that some Priestes or Ministers of God do serue or giue them-selues to a superstitious kinde of seruice rather then to the puritye of the minde and faith who beeing cloked hauing their loynes girt beleeue that they shall embrace the faith of holy Scripture not by the spirit but by the letter And hauing shewed that we must not do the thinges but that which is ment by such speaches he saith further We are to be discerned from the people or others by doctrin not by garments Now when they haue no more soundnes in faith and abilitiy to admonishe then is requyred in Christians how are they discerned from the common people and others by doctrine Concil Toletan 4. Ignorance the mother of all errours is especially to be auoyded in Priestes or Ministers who haue taken on them the dutey of teaching among the people of God For Paul doth commaund Priestes or Ministers to read the Scriptures often saying to Timothy attend to reading exhortation let Priests or Ministers therefore know the holy scriptures and let them meditate the Canons let all their worke consist in diuine preaching and doctrine and let them edifie all as well with the knowledge of faith as with the discipline of works And Chriso 1. Tim 5. 17 For this is much for the edification of the Church and very requisite that the Elders be apt to teach for this cause with the rest with this that they should be giuen to hospitality they shoulde be moderate that they should be vnblameable he also numbreth this saying he must be didacticos apt to teach for this he is sayde to be a Teacher Which testimony declareth euidently that aptnesse to teach is no more an Idaea then all the rest specified by the Apostle So August Homilia de pastor Hauing prooued at large all the dueties of preaching to lye vppon the Pastours of the Church sheweth how by the Apostle they must not only preach but be instant in it saying For here the Apostle sayeth preach the Worde be instant in season and out of season To whom in season To whom out of season In season to those who will out of season to those who will not And thus much for an vnpreaching ministerie Ministers fallen to idolatrie from their Ministerie ought not to be receiued to their ministerie HItherto hath beene handled the principall cause of the Ministery as it were the proper glorye of the man of God that he be apt to teach Now it is meet in the next place to maynetayne also that truth which the aunswerer impugneth that Ministers fallen to idolatry ought not to be admitted vnto the ministerie of the Gospell by anye ordinary authoritie of the Church that so the glorye which God hath appoynted vnto the ministerie might be mayntayned both for sufficiencie and the authoritie which they should gaine by being voyde of all suspicion of inconstancie in that religion which he shoulde deliuer with much full perswasion of the truth to liue and die in the same and to be willing to deale their owne liues for their flocke For notwithstanding it must be true that aboue all thinges the Godly Ministers are to take diligent heede that they doe not in confidence of their strength or with a spice of free-will as Peter did boldly promise such constancie yea when we are by Christe his voyce admonished of our owne frailtie yet in all humblenesse trembling and feare resting vpon God his promise to minister strength to the weake and courage to the faint hearted they ought as the chiefe captaines of the Lordes army and conductors of his host not onely be free from probable suspicion of such foule cowardlinesse yea of execrable high Treason seeing such doe not onely flee before the enimies of God but vnto them and that betray the strong tower of God his pure and holy seruice into the hands of the diuell his sworne enemy but ought also to be examples patterns of al readines to suffer for the truth His wordes for the impugning of this manifest truth are The contrary of this Doctrine of his may bee prooued by the example of Aaron who was an Idolater or an abbettor of idolatry in the golden Calfe and yet was not from his repentance put from his priesthood Likewise by Peter whose reuolt and temporary Apostasy in denying his Master Christe was no lesse heinouse then the sinne of our idolatrouse priests who for the moste part sinned but of ignorance in that generall blindenesse Likewise Augustine afterward a famous Byshoppe was by the space of many yeares a detestable Manachy And after he alleageth many testimonies of the Concil Meldens the glo out of the Nicen and out of Leo. And Augustin that Heretickes as namely Nouatians and Donatistis returning from their Heresies may be receiued And out of Viret that From Popery men maye be receiued to the Gospell Peter Viret in dialog la discipline eccles des eglises reformes du royaulme de Fraunce pag. 128. 129. Now all these allegations although they carrye some shew to him who vnderstandeth not the cause yet to him that shal but once consider of the question as it is before with out ambiguitie set downe it is manifest that his allegations touch not the questions For the examples of Aaron and Peter were without the
are one and not distinct To which I aunswere they may as well prooue hope and charity to be one and not distinct because the Apostle saith these three remaine faith hope and charitie because he coupleth them with and. But if these men haue not learned either that and though sometymes it rather repeateth or interpreteth then coupleth diuers thinges yet that most properly and commonlye it doth not so or that it is an elegancie with the Grecians in such long distributions to ioyne the twoo laste members especially if they bee of greater kindered and familiaritie then the rest to ioyne them with a copulatiue coniunction in the ende If I say they haue not obserued this in Homer and others Let them learne it of Paule Galath 3. where beeing about to shew that in Christe there is no difference of the outward distinctioÌ„ of kindes in this life he maketh a distinction or numbring vp of the diuers sorts and ioyneth the two last most like in nature and kindred yet not one and the same togeather saying There is neither Iewe nor Grecian ther is neither bond nor free there is neither male and female Hauing answered this obiection I proceede to other argumentes 1 Whatsoeuer is set as Church-officer in the Church by God with a distinct and proper ordinary gift that is such as we haue aboue described 2 But God hath set in the Church Doctors and giuen them their peculiar worke and gyft The Worde or vtteraunce of knowledge distinguished from the Pastors worke and gift the Word or vtteraunce of Wisdome in exhortation 3 Wherfore the Doctor is such a one as we haue described The second part is manifest by these wordes And these God hath set in his Church first Apostles secondly Prophetes thirdly teachers after powers theÌ„ the gifts of healing helpers gouernors sorts of tongs are all Apostles are al propehts Are all teachers And ver 8. To this is giuen by the spirit the word of wisdom to an other the word of knowledge according to the same spirite If they say the Worde teacher is heere taken generally not properly for the Doctor besides the 8. verse which doth manifestly refel them these reasons confute them First because he distinguisheth them from apostles and Prophets which in that generall signification should comprehend them and if it should comprehende anye more then Doctours properly yet it were no reason to shutte out those who are so called Lastly seing they can shew no place where it is so taken but alwayes is generall of all Ministers of the Word as the Apostle calleth him-selfe A teacher of the Gentiles And Timothy is willed to teach as also is euery Bishop or els it is proper for the peculier Church-officer so called it were against al rule of interpretation to shut out the proper which here agreeth with the circuÌ„stances of the text take a straunge vnwonted signification as to signifie a Pastor by a Doctor Our last reason is Seeing the Prophet Esay prophesying of the calling of the Gentiles by the ministerie of the Apostles doth also prophesie that of these called to the faith he would take of them to be Priestes and Leuites meaning according as the Prophets vse to speake by offices and holy thinges of the lawe to note out such offices as had some similitude proportion with those vnder the Gospell them to be Pastors who in administring of the Sacraments sleaing by exhortation the old man offring vp the new man acceptable to God holde proportion with the Priestes and to be Leuits whose office concerning y â— substantiall poynt of deliuery of doctrine is one the same with theirs that it must needs be that according to the scriptures of the new Testament this prophesie shold be fulfilled in the office of Doctors as well as of Pastors And this was that which the Fathers ment in their coÌ„mon resembling of Pastors to Priestes Eusebius declareth this most plainly in setting down the duties of y â— Doctor to catechise them as a master his schollers by continual reading to them or exercising to aduance them in knowledge For writing of y â— persecution of y â— church vnder Seuerus speaking of Origin he saith â—he exercise of teaching or the schole exercising as some where euen himself maketh relation in writing none serued or was set to catechise at Alexandria but all were driuen away by the threatning of persecution some of the Gentils came vnto him to heare the word of God And a little after Origin was then 18. yeare old when he was ouer the schoole of catechising or instructing And Nazianzen saith in Orat. Pros tous politeuomenous The seruants must be subiect to their masters the wiues to their husbands the Church to the Lorde the Disciples to their Pastors and Teachers Of the Elders and Eldership HAuing ended the treatise of the Doctor his office we are to proceede vnto the Elders and Eldership with whom he dealeth as prophanely as with the others his wordes are fol. 43. But why are Presbyteri such as expouÌ„d in the Church translated Elders I trust he mindeth not hereby to shut out all lay-men from the Eldership or seigniory which is dreamed of least peraduenture he him self be Exclusissimus And Pag. 57. And doth our Author thinke that this man heere doth meane their laye Presbiteries neuer heard nor reade of from the beginning of the worlde till within these fortye yeares or little more because he nameth them Ecclesiasticall Magistrates In which wordes of our author wee see his cheefest reason against the Ecclesiasticall Presbyterie is that the Elders are lay and the Presbyteries lay and therefore there hath not beene heard til within this forty year of them in the world To which we answere if y â— Elders which ioine with the Pastor Doctor were lay men yet it followeth not that the Eldership is lay But can his degree of Doctor if he bee so much giue such credite vnto his bare word as though all y â— Christian Churches which by the grace of God do exercise this discipline shoulde bee beleeued to haue a Presbitery of such as are not elected and ordained Ecclesiastically to their office If I be not deceiued herein his lawes may teach him if he wil not learn it out of the Scriptures that whosoeuer is called with due examination and trial with the consent of those to whom it appertaineth and are with fasting and prayers or prayers onely and with imposition of hands seperated or put a part to that office that they are Ecclesiastical persons and not lay-men as he calleth them otherwise there is no rule in the Scripture to descerne betweene men priuate and betweene Church-officers Nowe if hee consider either the order which we maintaine out of the Scripture or that which is practized in al reformed Churches he shal find that they are duely examined by the Elders elected of the whole Churche ordeined of the Eldership yea hee
matter of the Sacrament of the vbiquiti other points may be reiected of y e papists and their reason must be held as good because they haue as learnedly and truly gathered our diuersities betweene our selues inconueniences following vppon our Doctrine as this man hath doone in the matter of Ecclesiasticall Discipline Next vnto this fowle iniury done vnto religion his iniury done vnto so many worthy lerned men which haue so well deserued of the Church of God nay his inuiry done vnto all the reformed Churches in setting them together by the eares in slaundering them to like of vphold and maintain such a gouernment as hath no witnesse of the Scriptures or ancient times thogh they main tayne it by both such as bringeth with it not onely a maze and labarinth vnto all common-weales but which is at flat ennemity with Princes ouerthroweth their gouernment in Ecclesiastical causes and by sudden alteration turneth euery thing vpsie-downe Which reproch though it be so apparaunt as his owne conscience smote him with the gylce of it so as he would fayne auoyd the shame of it by colourable protestation and that before God not to derogate from any tollerable order established in these externall matters yet he cannot chuse but charge them that they make Princes raunge with the rest of their Seniours and Church-gouernours and that they debar princes of that right of gouernment in matters and ouer persons Eeclesiastical which the word of God al the examples of godly kings of Iudae doe aford vnto vs. The falsehoode of which is not onely manyfest by this witnes of haste as good as a thousand agaynst him but also by the testimonye which so manye worthy wryters nay Princes and Magistrates in their practise and confessions haue giuen to the same Now when the Christian Reader hath considered of this iniurye donne vnto GOD and his Church to vnderstande also firste that these are but Rapsodies gathered at leasure boasted of cast in the teth of some long since such as had other-wyse been vttered ere this but that no market would serue so well this Secondly that although He do as Sanballet send vs in wryting worde that we woulde builde vp the wall of Ierusalem and make our selues kinges when these thinges come to passe and that we set vp Prophetes which may preach of vs at Ierusalem there is a King at Iuda euery Pastor will be Pope yea and aboue the Prince in his Presbytery Yet with good Nehemias we can truely aunswere There is none of these thinges done but thou dost inuent them in thine hart and that all this is but to cast a feare vnto vs for they say their handes shall be weake from this worke that they perfect it not And therefore that our remedy is seeing we vse no meanes but by supplication but by manyfestation of the truth and seeke for nothing but Discipline which by the booke of ordination we promise to further according to our power euē to pray with the sayde Neh. Confirme O God our hands The first contradiction interlased with a lie that they make him Antichrist which refuseth the Presbytery is y ◠we vrge this as perpetual out of the place of Timothy which Caluin doth referre to his ministery which is no contradiction seeing if it be referred to his office yet it being a peece of Timothies office to procure that the thinges which he had learned of Paule shoulde be kept according to their nature and difference perpetually in the Church it sufficiently prooueth the matter in hande otherwise how Could he keepe it vntill the comming of Christ Like to that is the allegation out of the French discipline that those articles which were there contayned touching discipline are not so setled amongst vs but that the vnity he should say vtility of the church so requiring they may be chaunged which I saye is a meere cauill for they speak not nor meane not it of the substance of discipline contained in y ◠word but their maner of setting it downe according to the circumstaunces of their time as is plaine by Their title which calleth it but the firste cast brought of the substance of it as it is contayned in the Scriptures of the Apostles Which substaunce they were not so mad to change though they iudged they might alter thē in many points of circūstances For these sily contradictions let him take these monstrous ones proceding from this y ◠they wil not acknowledge the perfection of y ◠scriptures cōcerning discipline One nūbring vp as a circumstance to come clothed or naked to the supper of the Lord saith of those circūstances None of these circumstances are commauded in the Scriptures nor can by necessary collectiō be granted yet he knoweth it doth necessarily appertaine to comelines The next is that the Abstractor saith the Ministers ought not to wrest any thing into the gouernment of the church without due authoritie from the magistrate which he would haue contrary to that of the admonition M. Cartwright that our life must not be deare as thogh we can not by suffering if need were for so the condition is put aforde that without doing any thing which hath not due authority from the Magistrate His mingling of our sentence with Brownes is but a malitious proceeding Seeing him-selfe testifieth after that wee doe more then mislyke his doinges and writinges in respect of such proceedinges Like to this is that he alleadgeth out of Iunius that if the Prince doe hinder the building of the Church the people may by force of armes resist him Which as it is not in the Page which he noteth nor in all his booke of Discipline so how malitious a slander it is brought vp vpon so worthy a seruaunt of God maye appeare by his whole treatise of the ciuill Magistrat Lib. 3. cap. 5. Where hauing shewed how the Magistrate cannot alter the substantiall poyntes of Discipline and handled that question to one obiecting What shall the Church doe if it be by the Magistrates authoritye commaundement threatning and violence compelled Hee aunsweareth If the Magistrate ordayne any thing contrarie to God his worde that the Ministers shoulde plainly and modestly declare with Paule that they can do nothing against but for the truth But if the thinges be not contrarye to the truth and necessitie that the Churches are bound rather patiently to beare it then to bring the holy ordinaunce of God their body and the common peace into daunger Concerning excommunication shall be spoken after The booke he nameth of obedience I haue not The other matter out of the book deiure Magistratum as not pertayning to vs I purpose not to meddle with especially considering he handleth it more like a Lawyer then otherwise But after he hath alleadged testimonies to prooue that Which none but Papistes and Annabaptistes will deny that it is traiterous to teach the people that they shoulde owe no
it which is the aduancement of vertue the beating downe and suppressing of sinne and impietie the keeping of the Church in a vnity and quiet order which beeing the effect of Christes kingdome and his gouernement hee maketh them the essentiall partes of it So that he hath not learned yet to put a difference Betweene the kingdome of God and Gods righteousnesse established by it Nor betweene the two petitions of the Lordes prayer that his kingdomr may come and the fruite of this That his will may be done in earth as in heauen Againe he graunteth the essentiall partes of Christes kingdome and outwarde policie of the Church but he denyeth any exact forme as though there can be essentiall poyâ—tes of outwarde gouernment perpetuall and yet they shal haue no perpetuall forme Can there be an outwarde essentiall thing without a forme Or can the essence be perpetuall and changeable and the form variable and mutable Can there be an immutable outward gouernment without immutable outward callinges offices and workes This is to giue a man without members a skinne for a bodye without bones and fleshe Lastly how iniurious is this vnto Christ he wil acknowledge the benefit must be had but he will not acknowledge the hand wherby it is giuen Christ is wise inough still to administer and rule and that he will gyue him leaue to doe But y â— he is wyse inough to doe it by his owne meanes that hee being The onelye Lorde should appoynt the diuers administrations of his Church alwayes y â— his spirite Shoulde minister fully sufficient diuersitie of giftes that one God shoulde worke the sufficient diuers faculties alwayes That is vntollerable false seditious hurtfull to the estate He can allow the people shoulde bee taught and exhorted and haue the Sacramentes but whether by Readers or by Teachers by reading Homilyes or by Pastours by men or women God his word doth not define the people must be ruled but whether by Gouernours appoynted by Christ or by men He must relieue his pore with almesse but whether by his Deacons or others that he muste seperate betwene the cleane and vncleane cast out the wicked but whether by his Church and Eldership or some other muste by no meanes be determined As if one should say it is essentiall and perpetuall that we haue our enteraunce into Christe and his Church our growing and nourishing in the same sealed vp perpetually but that it shall be done onelye by Baptisme and the Lordes Supper and not also by confirmation that maye not bee graunted Christ was wyse inough and willing inough to ordayne the effects but not the instrumentes If he saye he commaunded them saying Baptize doe this So we say he commanded the other saying I haue set Teachers Gouernours saying let the Doctor abide in Teaching the Pastour in exhortation the Elder in ruling the Deacon in distributing the Church euen the Eldership to be tolde and to excommunicate Lastly it is as if one should say I can wel allow her most excellent maiesty for her excellent wisedome to see the commonwealth administred iustice executed matters rightly pleaded determined but y â— this shalbe don by her most honorable couÌ„sel by her chief iustices by her iustices of peace by her Shiriefes and Balifes by her Sergeants at the lawe that I can not like or allow of As for y â— place of Tertulian it is plaine he meaneth it of the discipline in the course of life which is chaÌ„geable as may appeare by the testimenies alledged in the first point His next contradiction is concerning y â— means of liuing that y â— French church wold haue the rentes and reuenewes deliuered to the Deacons so the minister receiue his stipend but the booke of Discipline T. C. and the Admonition speaketh earnestly againste those who gape after Church-liuings and turne it to their purses and pleasure as though these could not stande together that they shoulde bee deliuered to the Churche onely and turned to holy vse that it shoulde bee administred by the Deacons or as though the playnesse of the one in reproouing an abuse bee contrary to the good order taken by the other Howsoeuer it be so the Christian Magistrate see the poore cared for by the Deacons and that they who preach the Gospell liue of the Gospell and that the Lord be thus honoured with our substance we acknowledge he doth his duety towardes the Church But if these want and the thinges giuen to that vse bee turned to the priuate commodity of some there is a defect in that behalfe But nowe this valiant champion will ouerthrowe the Eldership by such weapons as followe for T. C. Doth teach it from the Iewish Synedrion and out of the Talmud which according to Bonauentur and Danaeus handled ciuill thinges which our presbytery may not doe To which I aunswere that T. C. doth not fet it from y e Talmude but from the word of God as his whole disputation doth shew in that pointe onely hee sheweth that this presbytery hath beene continued vnder the Lawe and vnder the Gospell which is true and agreeed vppon by all three which he speaketh of It is also as fals y t Bonauenture speaketh so of the Ecclesiasticall Senate by it selfe for that which he noted is of the ciuill and politike synedrion Cap. 13. but hee maketh afterward when he handleth the Ecclesiastical pollicy of that time besides the priest and besides the Teachers in euery Sinagogue Senetors which inquired of theire manners which is manifeste by Exod. 4. 29. Exod. 17. 5. 2. King cap. 6. 32. Ier. 19. 1. Ezech. 8. 1. and Neh. 8. 5. Where are Elders occupied in Ecclesiasticall matters assistant to the Prophets and teaching Leuites and yet distinguished from them so as they medled not with the Word Danaeus in deede sayth they medled somtimes w t ciuil administrations which ours do not which thing yet maketh no contradiction to vs seeing we say with him that to ours is giuen by Christ Ecclesiastical authority only But the truth is y t they were then plainly distinguished some being for the matters of God and some for ciuill causes the matters of the king Now the cause of this which Danaeus speaketh of was that in waighty matters both came together because the politike lawes of the Jewes were for the moste part defined and set downe in the Worde of God they the Priest Leuites and Ecclesiasticall Elders were there to pronounce the sentence Ecclesiastically that is to pronounce y e sense of Gods word in y t cause the Princes cheefe of the people and ciuil Senate were to pronounce Ciuilly and iudicially the sentence of death or such like according to the sense of the Scriptures Secondly by the causes that when the Ecclesiasticall Senate commeth to the Ciuill the matters are thus mixt as Jeremy 26. 16. But when the matter is Ciuil meerely and no Question of the sense of the
Scriptures then it is of Magistrates onely as 1. chro 28. 1. 1. chro 13. 1. Or when the matters were meerely Ecclesiasticall then was the Ecclesiasticall Senate onely brought together as in consultatioÌ„ 2. king 6. 32. As in matters to be done in the congregation Act. 13. 15. For Excommunication John 9. 22. 10. 40. For interpretation the Priests and Leuites only Math. 24. And lastly by this that Peter being before both the Senates Ecclesiasticall and Ciuil doth plainly distinguish them calling y e one the cheefe or rulers of Israel the other the Elders of Israel Wherefore this proueth not that they did exercize ciuill authority and although our lawes political are not in this respect like vnto the Jewes yet if the Magistrate will call the Eldership to declare the will of God or pronounce duely an Ecclesiasticall sentence when hee will pronounce a Ciuill it may well be done without the confusion he speaketh of The next that he saith out of Caluine y e Presbitries of y e Jews was from men not froÌ„ heauen is fals for Caluin saith only since the captiuity it was chosen for the censure of manners but he sayth also in that place that that regiment was lawfull and allowed of God and that Christ did worthily prayse the order deliuered of the fathers and that which was kept vnder the law Christ sent vnto vs. Now the Fathers vnder the law did not any of those thinges and lesse then these but by God his commaundement by his Prophets yea this was commanded both that in euery City and that for more difficult causes at Hierusalem such Senate shoulde bee appointed Deut. 1. 8. 9. c. The like vntruethe is it that Musculus vnderstoode it of the whole Congregation for euen as D. Whitgift alleadged him pag. 633. He sayth It was by Seniors in Ecclesiasticall assemblie As vntrue is the other y â— Caluine sayth Neyther in Christes time nor 22. yeares after this Christian Eldership was established for he sayth in that place Where Christe a little after erected his Church the corruption beeing taken away he did restore the pure vse of Excommunication And that there is no doubt but this order of discipline which flourished vnder the kingdome of Christ succeeded into the place of that old and it is playn by the Scripture as soone as there was an ordinary set Congregation there were Elders which ioined with the Apostles in Church-gouernment Act. 12. 30. Actes 15. 6. Acts. 21. 18. Neither must they by example of the Jewes haue but one for a Nation only seeing it hath bene shewed such were in euery City and Synagogue wheras if we should square it after this his patterne we should haue one only for y â— whol Church That he saith y â— Apostles wold not haue executed the deacons office al Christs time He bableth fables which he knowth not for ther office in Christs time was only to preach and baptize in Iudaea and to be witnesses of Christs life doctrine death resurrection and ascention That which they did at Hierusalem was but to take care for y â— pore till they had fit persons and occasion to establish the order which Christe ordained neyther did they it only because they were withdrawn which if they were being so many how much more shall Ministers and Byshops bee if they looke to these and to ciuil affayres also but also because it was not acceptable meaning to God thus to doe when they had by God his blessing both suche persons place and time as he required Al the rest of his some of words that neither father Councel nor Scripture hath left in memory where when or by whom it was first erected put in practize is worse then nothing For it was done of the Apostles at Jerusalem long before the councell as is proued out of Act. 12. 30. But this sheweth their giddinesse y â— say somtime y â— it hath no testimony either of scripture or antiquity and yet again confesse and alleadge Ambrose to proue that Seniors haue beene and that they were extinguished before Ambrose his time which they will not say of Elders which minister the Word and Sacramentes for they were not extinguished before Ambrose his time neither yet are Also that they say the Byshops differ and are aboue other ministers for pollicy and order only and yet make them differ in the Ministery of grace as in the sentence of Excoâ—â—â—ucation of Absolution and according to their Doctrine of ministring strength against temptations by confirmation For these they make proper to the Byshop and not common to euery minister and notwithstanding the Minister must read the Excommunication yet y â— word sentence and authority doth come from the Byshop and for Absolution it is ynough to goe to him or his Delegate The nexte contraryetyes agree like friends for both all Is not expressed in the Scripture as the booke of Discipline sayth and yet all may be prooued by direct Scripture Seeing whatsoeuer is necessarily collected thence though it be not expressed is directlye prooued Also the next is of as little value for both Ministers and Preachers as Caluine sayth may be vnderstood and also gouerning Elders as Beza noteth The next is an open lye for Beza sayth on that place of Tim. 5. 17. Therefore there were two sortes of Elders When one sort should attend on gouernment the other on the Word prayer Of such force is the next for the booke of Discipline agreeth in iudgment with M. Cartwight that in the place of the 1. Tim. 3. vnder Deacous are comprehended both those properly so called and the Elders For M. Cartwright referreth him self to that obseruation Pag. 54. and prooueth it because the qualities there set downe are common to bothe and there are none touched proper to either and the Word Deacons is taken in diuers places for all those Ministers which are not occupyed in the Worde as Rom. 12. 6. 1. Pet. 4. 11. The next is like to that of the 14. of the Act and so to be answered Also one may gather The Eldership out of the. 1. Cor. 12 For of the 14. none doth and out of the other places both vnles he be so learned in diuinity y t he thinke diuers places caÌ„not proue one thing His other cauil is not worth a rush for in one respect Deacons signifying somtime all Ministries not occupyed in the Worde may be a Genus or generall to Elders and Deacons so called Also the name Bishop beeing generally giuen of their work of watching or our-seeing Act. 20. vnto Elders may be commoÌ„ both to ministers and gouerning Elders which disagreeth not with this that Elders be teaching and vnteaching It is true also which is obserued by the booke of Discipline that the name of Elders is not giuen to those Deacons which are distributers and his written booke may be ouer-seene in so smal a thing as
e Church of France is ridiculous For thogh they say that Ministers Elders and Deacons are for Church discipline whereby discipline they mean y e order of y e Church generally yet in the gouernment of the Presbytery they ioyne onely the Elders with the Ministers and to the Deacons they giue nothing but the care for the poore and to giue aduise as the French Churches say is not onely graunted to Deacons but vnto all as â—uâ—re occasion shall serue Concerning the difference of widowes T. C. saith Where the conditions fall out which are set downe in 1. Tim. â— there they ought according to that rule to be established Wherin he agreeth with Daneus and the booke of Discipline doth not deny but that where there are such women and causes they maye and ought to bee so founde of the Church and are to serue the Church in such seruice as they shall put them to onelye he findeth no one peculier and proper seruice wherevnto they are tyed but are to bee imployed by the Deacons vnder whom they are contayned and in all this there is no difference worth the speaking of much lesse contradiction In the next y e question is only of a circumstance how long they shold continue wherein if Berna differ somewhat from vs what is that vnto the matter in hand what hurt to the substaunce of the cause The next obiection doth aunswere it selfe that as they vsed them then in some respects as the Deacon to Catechise and such like which they thought the straightes of the Church draue them vnto â—o otherwise for their office we do see they do in their confession acknowledge That the church must he gouerned with the policie which Christ hath ordayned that the offices of elders and Deacons are part of that policie Also y t it is a part of his Gospel is confirmed to be perpetuall to haue such a gouerment in their publike writing to y â— ende As fond is the next out of Daneus which declareth that although the Churches after the Apostles chose the Elders and Deacons to be perpetuall yet it also sayeth there is no such thing defined of in the Scriptures which proueth that it is a circumstaunce which may be altered according to the estate of the Church In the next he quoteth Bucer as repugnaunt to T. C. but nameth no place where we shall finde it Daneus doth not contrarie him but acknowledging it the order of God doth onely shew what was done in smal churches adioyned to the great and populous there beeing sufficient persons in the one which were not at the first in the other notwithstanding the Apostles ordayned it Church by Church Actes 14. And euery Church muste haue them to send for Jam. 5. and the causes of them which are to be assistaunt to the Pastor to administer the ecclesiastical censures to watch ouer the people and admonishe them are a like euery where Now if the Churches be too little the bodyes of seuerall congregations ought so to be ordred as they may haue all the members which Christ hath set for the perfection and beauty af his body vpon all the wals of Hierusalem there must be watch-men and vpon Euery habitation of mount Syon vppon her meetinges and Congregations there must be this presence of God as a cloude by day and a fire by night For looke what places they can bring for the perpetuity and for the right of euerye Church for a Pastour The same or lyke may be brought for the Elder Whereof it commeth that Ignatius sayde as he is alleadged before No Church can stande without her Eldership And Iustinus made his apologie wherein this Eldership is mentioned for all Churches Wherefore whatsoeuer Daneus graunt was done for a tyme till the Churches might conuenientlye bee brought to a conuenient stature neither beeing too high nor too short and to be beautifull bodyes neyther wanting a member nor hauing one too much that muste not preiudice the institution of Christ which Daneus confesseth When he sayth they must looke to the Church house by house and publikely also to the whole and to the sicke Of two Consistories in a city it may be he hath reade of but in one particular Church of two Ecclesiasticall Senates I will then beleeue it when he bringeth vs a more certaine direction then yet hee hath done to finde it and if they did seeing the inconueniences as he sayeth bring it to the right order what preiudise is that to the trueth In the next poynt of counsels there is no contrarietie betweene the admonition and the French Churches order For they say they may definitiuely define causes in a prouintiall Synode although I can not find those wordes by his quotation And the admonition saythe so except there be a generall counsell and they will haue it there For there is no reason if they will order it fitly at hoam to carry it to a generall counsell And I pray are these two so contrary They may ende it and they may ende it except they thinke it better to referre it to a generall counsel In passing from this difference to the next he setteth peremptorilie that it is manyfest that there is no certayne forme of electing Ecclesiasticall officers vsed by the Apostles but reason he sheweth none whereby it maye appeare So that if his Doctorship saye it we muste take it from him as vndoubtedly as if he had it by reuelation For confutation of which folly we may say thus much That seeing in the Ministers examination is to be had of knowledge of doctrine of ripe nesse to expound the Scriptures and in a worde of aptnes to teach it is manyfest that as the gouerning of this action belongeth to the Eldership and is to be done with publike prayers that besides the gouerning Elders there must be ministers who maye be able throughly to iudge and examine to conceiue publike prayer and to deliuer to the Church by doctrine exhortation whatsoeuer is expedient in this case Which thing is euident not onely by the perpetuall reason of it but also by the constant and vnchaungeable practise of the Apostles in the first of the Actes in the sixth of the Acts in the 14. in the 1. Tim. 3. of Tit. 1. Onely it is to be noted that it is not committed to one no not so much as to ordayne much lesse to elect but the ordination is by the Eldership And Timothy could not carry the matter away but had a charge for his owne part To keepe him-selfe pure and not to communicate with other mens sinnes whatsoeuer other Elders did in this case Now as this order is certayne and vnuariable both in the reason and practise of it so the circumstaunces whether it shall be by 6. or by 7. Ministers by a conference only or by a synode sauing where it may be the more the better is left to the disposition of the church Wherefore it is