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A54931 Truth vindicated and the lyars refuge swept away being an answer to a book set forth by Thomas Collier called A looking-glasse for Quakers, and also to some particulars in a book of his called A dialogue &c. : wherein the truth is cleared from those slanders ... : also an answer to his queries in the end of the book ... : together with an epistle to the people called Baptists ... / published by ... John Pitman, Jasper Batt. Pitman, John, d. 1658?; Batt, Jasper, d. 1702. 1658 (1658) Wing P2299; ESTC R28442 57,250 71

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you eate my flesh and drinke my Blood you have no life in you if they eate and drinke it it was within them and for the Scriptures by thee alleadged the words without is not at all in them Quer. 2. Whether Christ by his Spirit in the Gospel Ministration do not lead Soules to the beholding of what Christ hath done without them for them yea or nay according to 1 Cor. 15.3 Acts 13.39 2. Answ The Mistery to be Manifested to the Gentiles was Christ in them and Paul travelled that Christ might be formed in the Galathians and the anointing dwelt in the Saints and Christs righteousnesse was to be fullfilled in them and know you not that Jesus Christ is in you except yee be reprobates and the Word without is not mentioned in the Scriptures by thee alleadged Quer. 3. Whether it be fair dealing for your teachers who pretend they own the Scriptures to call it litterall and deny it to be the word of God as Naylor in his love to the lost Concerning the word pag. 14.15 how often doth hee call the Scriptures the Letter as distinct from the word men say the Letter is it c. yet are not ashamed to call their false and nonsensicall sayings the word of the Lord wittness Fox in his word to the Jewes and another to the Gentiles concludes in both that this is the Word of the Lord to you c. and Burrough in his Trumpet his word must be the Word of God believe it those that list Answ If the Scriptures be written with Letters is it not Litteral and the scripture declareth that Christ is the Word of God and hee was in the beginning all things were made by him now where doth the Scripture say so of it selfe and if the word was in the beginning and all things made by it then it must of necessity bee distinct from the Letter now that we call our false and nonsensicall sayings the word of the Lord is false for hee hath not proved the sayings of George Fox or Edward Burrough alleadged by him either false or nonsensicall but if G. Fox Edward Burrough or any other did receive a Message from the Lord to Jewe or Gentile they might say thus saith the Lord and if they write it the writing is a Declaration of it Q 4. Whether there be not a difference between the Word God and the Word of God the Word Christ and the Word of Christ Answ In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and God was the word he was cloathed with a vesture dipt in blood and his name is the Word of God and Paul saith Ephe. 3.17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts c. and Coll. 3.16 let the word of Christ dwell in you c. wee make no more difference between them then Paul or John doth Q. 5. Whether God hath not ever since hee hath been minstering to men by a word or law written Required his people to walke according to the word or Law of the Ministration under which they lived Answ These are the last Dayes wherein the Lord hath according to his promise written his Law in the hearts of his people and this is the Ministration which the Saints live under the anointing dwelling in them and therefore to be obeyed the Mistery made manifest Christ in us the hope of glory Q 6. Whether God hath not broken to pieces and brought to shame all that have turned aside from the written word as a Rule And whether the Quakers be not now going down by the righteous hand of God as the Ranters have done before them Answ That Prophet is now witnessed of whom Moses testified and whosoever will not heare this Prophet shall be cut off yea and broken to pieces all those who will not have him to reigne shall be ssaine before him and although those who now heare witnesse unto him to be the Light the way the truth the word their King Prince Leader and Lawgiver whom this generation calls Quakers may be persecuted scorned reproached slandered scourged imprisoned and slain yet wee are not forsaken by the Lord but the truth prospers and many faithful witnesses are raised up to beare testimony against deceit and Deceivers and the hand of the Lord is with us and against all our Enemies but our Kingdome is not of this world for the Disciple is not above his Lord but the wicked may say there is no help for him in his God and that the Lord hath forsaken him Query 7. Whether seeing that Christ hath foretold that in the last days deceivers should come it might not be your wisdome yet once more to bring your Principles to the tryall of the sanctuary and not to be so over-hold and confident in your way especially there having been so many before you as confident as you whose confidence came to folly it 's never too late to repent if the Lord give grace Answ Deceivers we know are in the world and by their fruits we know them in that Writing from Tiverton thou hast markt out thy self to be one of them as that 's an infallible mark to cry peace to the wicked and art not ashamed to bid those rejoyce whose Iniquities are apparently written in their fore-heads abhominations reign are drawing iniquity with cords of vanity and tell them their King comes in righteousness and in peace More marks thre are of a Deceiver in that Writing which we refer the Reader unto there to minde And as for our Principles they are tryed and weighed in the ballance of the Sanctuary yea tryed in the fire and for the Truth we are bold as Lyons and this confidence we shall never cast away The hope of the wicked shall perish but they that trust in the Lord shall never be ashamed and that repentance do we witness never to be repented of Query 8. Whether the 2 of Tim. 3.15 16 17. be not Scripture where the Apostle saith that the Scripture is able to make wise unto salvation through faith in Christ Jesus and is profitable for reproof for correction c. and is able to make the man of God perfect and thoroughly to furnish him to every good worke And if so why do you so much plead against the rules of Scripture and the Ministry that is according to the Scripture Answ Yea we own it to be Scripture and profitable and with it we correct thee who art found contrary to the Ministry that is according to it And seeing that it 's profitable for the man of God why dost thou plead so much against the Rules of Scripture who sayest perfection is not attainable here but it seems thou excludest thy selfe from being a man o● God Quer. 9. Whether Timothy and Titus were Ministers of Christ And if so why do you not rayl at them as well as at us who received their rule without them from the Apostle Paul and not from the Light within as you pretend Answ They were Ministers
the world as the Scriptures declare him or thou wilt be deceived in the day of tryal when thou lookest for salvation by him We further say we own him as the Scriptures testifie of him even the Light of the world the way to the Father the life 's the truth the mighty power of God He further goes on page 14. saying Read your confusion you blinde Quakers The Apostle saith he had not attained neither was he perfect c. We say we presse towards the mark for the price of our high calling of God in Christ Jesus And let as many as be perfect be thus minded And if Paul had attained Christ dost thou say he had not attained perfection For Christ is perfect and he saith Let as many as be perfect c. Was not he himselfe one of those many and so we say we have attained to that which is perfect and are pressing forward And mayest not thou as well charge Paul for blindnesse and confusion as we who owned and witnessed perfection and yet was pressing forward Again he saith Prove that ever any of the Saints in Scripture did like you Quakers say they were perfect here any otherwise then by faith in Christ which we own and witnesse We say do wee own it otherwise then by saith in Christ and in this faith do wee witnesse victory over sin and the World but for thee to say which we own and witness what doth it profit for this that know O vaine man that faith without workes is dead now what works or fruites doth thy faith produce who art Drawing Inquity with Cords of vanity and whose Abhominations are reigning in thee c. as wittnesse Tiverton writing what are these but fruites of Sodome and Clusters of Gomorrah therefore cease thy profession of faith untill it produce better fruits but thou thy selfe wilt own some were perfect in the Scripture why then dost thou bid us prove it that is sincere upright walking with God c. wee say wee own it no otherwise but according to the Scriptures for no workers of Inquity can stand in his presence nor walke with him now from this perfection thou art far off who while thou pretendest to wait for the Counsell of the Lord Confessest thou art Drawing Iniquity with Cords of vanity art Lukewarme formall in holy Dutyes this is far from Sincerity and uprightness pag. 15 Thou farther sayst All that Do indeed Quake and tremble at the word of the Lord will quake tremble at the Delusions of these poore blind deluded people that are deceiving and deceived here the Deceiver is talking of Deceiving and being deceived Wee say let the Hypocrite first pull the Beam out of his own Eye before hee meddle with a mote in anothers thou sayest thou knowest the Letter of Scripture is the Rule of Saints and the Spirit the Guide to that Rule wee say the Letter kills but the Spirit gives life that which the Scripture declares to be the Saints guid Rule and Leader wee own and have formerly declared but what guide and rule dost thou walke by as thy practise and Confession declare is it not the Prince of Darknesse and his Laws therefore cease talking of the Saints Rule and guide while thou art thus Ignorant of it and walking Contrary to it And so now thou concludest thy Lyes Lightness scoffes Reproaches and Slanders saying I say no more but leave them to the Lord whom I earnestly desire in mercie to looke upon them c. wee say let him that mentions the name of God depart from Iniquity for the prayers of the wicked are an abhomination to the Lord and if the Lord will not heare them that regard Iniquity in their hearts shall such be heard whose Iniquities are apparently written in their Foreheads and are Drawing of it with Cords of vanity wee farther say with the Lord wee rest in his armes are wee preserved from the wicked who bend their bowes shoot out their arrowes even bitter words yea in vaine do they plott and Imagin mischiefe their Snare is broken and wee are escaped and the Mischiefe which they causelessly devised against the Innocent is fallen upon their own heads glory to the Lord for ever As for that which hee calls Naylors exaltation in the west wee refer as formerly to George Bishops Booke in Answer to Ralph Farmer intitled the throne of truth exalted And thus have wee brought this Glass to the Light wherein whosoever impartially views it may easily observe what it represents and is contained in it it Beares the Image of the Prince of darknesse and containes many absurdities contradictions Lyes slanders and reproaches yet affirmed and published with as much impudency as falsness as if the Author neither feared God nor regarded man so this Day the Scripture is fullfilled in our Eyes and Eares that the Enemies of God have consulted together with one consent and are confederate against the Lord the tabernacles of Edom and the Ishmaelites of Moab and the Hagarius Geball and Amon and Amalick the Philistians with the inhabitants of Tyre The Lord having now appeared in great Love power and Magesty to gather a remnant out off and from all kindreds tongues Nations and families of the Earth to beare Testimony against all the unrighteous Deeds of the World all Nations kinreds formes sects and professions are now consulting and taking counsell together against this Remenant and are drawing up their forces against the holy City Ashur also is joyned with them hee that hath an eare to heare let him heare but this Mount Sion can never be moved for God is in the midest of her and though her gates stand upon by Day yet no uncleane thing can ever enter therein neither any that worketh abhomination or that loveth maketh a lye but only they whose names are written in the Lambs booke of life And therefore why do the heathen rage and the people imagine Mischiefe for ye shall bee slain all the sort of you as a broken wall and a sa tottering sence shall ye be whose fall comes suddenly without remedy for he that sits in the heavens laughs yea the Lord hath you exceedingly in derision hee hath set his King upon his holy hill of Sion Who doth and shall reigne till all his Enimies be made his foot stool the mouth of the Lord of hosts hath spoken it A few words in Answer to Thomas Colliers Queries Query 1. Whether ever the Prophets Christ or the Apostles did teach a Doctrin as you have amongst you viz to look to the Light within for salvation but rather to Jesus Christ without and what he had done for finners without them Act. 13.38.39 and 16.31 Answ We answer Moses directed to the Word nigh in the heart and in the mouth which Paul saith was Christ and if in the heart then within and Paul saith that this was the Mistery that God would make known to the Gentiles Christ in us the hope of glory and Christ himselfe saith except