erat sancta quę apud impios non erat Nunc autē aut tales aut peiores facti sunt Christiani quales sūt hęretici aut gentiles adhuc autem maior continētia apud illos inuenitur quamuis in schismate sint quà m apud Christianos Qui ergo vult cognoscere quae sit vera ecclesia Christi vnde cognoscat nisi tantummodo per scripturas Sciens ergo Dominus tantam confusionem rerum in nouissimis diebus esse futuram ideo mandat vt Christiani qui sunt ī Christianitate volentes firmitatem accipere verae fidei ad nullam rem fugiant nisi ad scripturas Alioqui si ad alia respexerint scandalizabūtur peribunt non intelligentes quae sit vera ecclesia That is to saie Let them that bee in Christianitie flie to the scriptures And wherfore ought al Christians at this time to flie to the scriptures Because in this time sith heresies possessed those Churches there can bee no proofe of true christianitie neither can there be any other refuge of Christians desiryng to knowe the true faithe but the diuine scriptures For before it was declared by many meanes whiche was the true churche and whiche was Gentilitie but now thei who would knowe whiche is the true churche can knowe it by no meanes but onelie by the scriptures Why so For all these thinges whiche are properly Christes in y e truth the same hath heresie also in schisme Heresie hath churches likewise and the diuine Scriptures likewise Bishops likewise and other orders of clearkes Baptisme likewise the sacramente of thankes geuyng likewise and all other thinges to conclude euen Christ himself He therefore that would knowe whiche is the true churche of Christ how can he knowe it in so greate cōfusion of likelihoode but onely by the scriptures Further the churche of Christ might be knowen before by the maners of it when the conuersation either of all or of the moste parte of Christians was holie whiche was not so emongest the wicked But now Christians are become either suche or woorse then be the heretikes or Gentiles yea there is greater continencie emongeste them though thei bee in schisme then is emongest the Christians He therefore that would knowe whiche is the true Churche of Christe how can he knowe it but onelie by the scriptures The Lorde therefore knowyng that in the last daies there would be so greate confusion of thinges dooeth commaunde that Christians whiche be in Christianitie willyng to haue the suertie of true faithe dooe flie to no other thing but to the scriptures Els if thei haue respecte to other thynges thei shall stumble or faile of the truthe and perishe not vnderstāding whiche is the true churche Thus farre that aunciente author whose sentence and verie woordes though for auoidyng of prolixitie alittle intermitted I haue truely rehearsed You maie see that this auncient writer will not allowe that you beeyng the one partie should claime to your self the name of Christians the name of the churche the names of bishops and the names of the cleargie and so to take vpon you as iudges to condemne the other partie but that bothe you and wee must be iudged and tried whether we be in Christianitie and in the true church by the scriptures You see the names of the churche of Bishops and cleargie whiche are common to heretikes with Christians can not prooue you to bee catholikes for that heretikes vse the same names but that bothe you and wee muste knowe by the Scriptures whether wee bee in the true faithe or no for that as he saieth in this confusion of thinges bothe the true churche and the true faith must bee knowen by the Scriptures onelie and by no other thyng and that whosoeuer goeth aboute otherwise to knowe them shall stumble and perishe Wherein this author dooeth agree with S. Augustine S. Hierome S. Chrysostome and with all the olde Doctours of the auncient churche Whereby al men maie well vnderstande that it is not our newe opinion as M. Dorman would haue it seme but the olde true perswasion of all the auncient doctors and godly fathers of the primitiue churche that the Scriptures as moste indifferent and certaine ought to be iudges in controuersies in religion rather then Doctours then Councelles then your Churche then dead menne then angelles yea that the scriptures should bee iudge and not thei And that the true sense of scriptures if doubte rise thereof maie bee and must be gathered by the conference of the scriptures who doo clearly expounde themselues For the declaration whereof the said doctors doo so often and largely write that the rehersall thereof would fil an huge volume but I did thinke that this much would suffice But you Papistes will neuer allowe the Scripture as iudge nor the sense thereof to be certaine vntill it come to the exposition of the Churche and you will bee that churche that must so expounde it your self that is you will graūt no sense to be true but your own sense But wee deny that you are the true Churche that hath this autoritie of determinyng of the sense of the scriptures And if you will saie still your are the churche neither will nor can proue it but onely by so saiyng we be not so voide of all sense and vnderstāding but that we perceiue you will haue no sense but your owne and that you will be still bothe parties and iudges in your own causes againste vs as the Iuishe high Prieste Phariseis and Scribes would needes be against Christ and his Apostles who did by your iudgemēt as it semeth allege the scriptures for themselues againste the saied high Prieste Scribes and Phariseis in vaine for that thei being the churche as you now be were the iudges of the sense of the saied scriptures by Christ and his Apostles alleged And I am sure that the high Prieste with his Iuishe churche was able to saie as muche for the ordinarie succession of the high Priestes his predecessours euen from Aaron vntil his time for antiquitie for consente and for vniuersalitie againste Christe and his Apostles so fewe in comparison and as it seemed latelie starte vp as you are able to saie for your churche or against vs. But yet we doo thinke that the woorde of God as it was alleged by Christe and his Apostles against the saied high priest and his churche so maie it and ought also to be alleged by vs against your high priest and your churche and that the same woords of God whiche shal iudge bothe you vs in the worlde to come as is saied ought also to be iudge betwéen you and vs here in this transitorie worlde for so dooeth our sauiour Christ teache so doo S. Chrysostome S. Augustine and S. Hierome with all the auncient doctors of the Churche teache also as hath been partely besore specified crie you neuer so muche to the contrarie and make you neuer so many exceptions to the scriptures and claime
vnto your selues as beyng the churche the interpretatiō thereof yet suche are both your doctrine and dooynges and so contrarie to the woorde of God whervpon the true churche is builded that we muste needes thinke that you are not the true church of God And whether you so bee or no seeyng it is in question and a greater doubte and controuersie emongest men I am sure then can bee about the sense of any place of the scripture you shall neuer bee able to make any exception vnto the Scripture as no competent iudge in controuersies but we shall be able tenne tymes more to make exception to your Pope and his churche as no indifferent nor meete iudge Wherefore cease once to bragge of that as the vndoubted iudge of all doubtes whiche is it self emongest men of all other doubtes the greatest doubt that is whether you be the true church of God or no. Whiche is with vs in deede no doubte nor with any that hath any vnderstandyng in Goddes woorde and iudgemente in true religion For we certainlie knowe by the woorde of God vpon the whiche as the true churche is builded so is it by the same to be knowen that you bee not the churche of God for that you so swarue from the woorde of God As for vs that wee are at your handes though we bryng so euidente scriptures for vs so reiected and condemned wee take it the better for that wée vnderstande that our sauiour Christe and his holie Apostles likewise allegyng the scriptures yea and further by their woonderfull woorkes and moste godlie life confirmyng the same were by the high Priestes Phariseis and Scribes reiected condemned and siaine an eternall documente that in this worlde no persone nor doctrine can satisfie al men or shall be taken for a iudge of controuersies aboue all exception and quarellyng seyng that Christe hymself so teachyng so woorkyng so liuyng was excepted vnto as a Daemoniake or one possessed with the Deuill as a friende to sinners as a wine drinker and seeyng that heade corner stone was as vnprofitable to the buildyng of Gods churche and his holie woorde also as false doctrine reiected by the high priestes Scribes and Phariseis who would needes be the iudges of all themselues And wee conceiue good hope that as our sauiour himself with his holie Apostles teachyng the truthe though reiected and murdered by the said high Priestes Scribes and Phariseis haue wonne vnto them the iudgementes of all godlie men and wemen against suche vnrighteous iudges so we likewise teachyng the same truthe of our Sauiour reueiled in his holie Gospell though of this high priest and Romishe Caiphas with his adherentes Popishe Scribes and Phariseis reiected condemned and murthered shall against suche vniuste iudges winne vnto vs the iudgement of all godlie menne and wemen as to the greate decaie of their false superstition successe of the truthe is this daie thankes bee to God partlie come to passe in a greate parte of the Christian worlde Dorman fol. 8. But of this I will entreate more largelie hereafter In the meane season that theie will haue of Christes Churche here in earth no other head but Christ hymselfe therein thei fare me thincketh not muche vnlike to a certaine felon of whom I haue heard that beyng areigned at the barre for a felonie when he had pleadid to the indictement not guiltie and was after the manner demaunded how he would bee tried he would suspectyng his owne case and knowyng that if he satisfied the lawe in putting hymself apon the triall of the coūtrey there were no moe waies with hym but one make thereto no other answere but onely that he would put hymself apon God the righteous Iudge of all ▪ who although he said truely that God was the chief iudge of all as the protestantes do in calling Christ the head of the church yet was ther in his case an other iudge here in this world vnder god by whō he must haue byn tried as there is in theirs an other heade here in the churche to order them and kepe thē vnder in whō Christ the chiefe head of all vseth in all necessarie knowledge to giue answere And as the felon knewe well that there was an other iudge beside god appealed not to him as though before him he should haue byn acquitted proued not guiltie but onely to gaine a longer time of life and libertie so doe I doute not our aduersaries the protestantes And truely to bothe theise kinde of men beyng bothe theeues the one sorte doyng violence to the bodie the other to the soule if suche pleas mighte be allowed how soeuer thei be coloured with the name of Christe betwene them bothe thei would freely rob the bodie and murther the soule Nowell Now proceadeth he pleasantlie and by a parable of a certaine felone all to shaketh vs out of our cloutes as he praied he might be suffered to dooe In the handlyng whereof it maie seeme he hath dealte as he was wonte when some of his felowes had forgotten their partes in the plaie to holde men occupied for the time by suppliyng that defecte with some pretie conceites or tellyng of some merie tale thereby to make the auditours to laugh and the lesse to marke the mased memorie of his mates and so to saue the matter from vtter marryng as muche as in hym might lye In like wise dooeth maister Dorman here for where he hath to proue that of necessitie there must be one onely chief heade here in earth ouer the Churche whiche is in deede the firste and moste necessarie parte of the whole treatie of the Popes supremacie and the verie foundation of all whiche not proued or els leudly proued all the reste commeth doune vpon their heades For the whiche so greate a matter little beyng as yet saied by M. Dorman and nothyng in deede and lesse remainyng behinde to bee saied the man beyng destitute of all carnest matter piththie reason and good authoritie turneth himself to his accustomed arte and by a pretie tale of a certaine felone all to shaketh vs as he before threatned he would dooe out of our masking cloutes as he termeth them and this he dooeth to supplie other defectes thereby and to make this first parte moste necessarie of all to be piththily proued by suche patchyng of i◠vp at the leaste a quarter as bigge as his seconde part of this treatie to witte that no prince or lay man maie be the onely head of the whole Churche for that priestes haue more to doo in ecclesiastical matters thā thei haue Whiche so long an impertinente parte had M. Dorman put vp in his purse and passed ouer with silence he had spared a greate deale of paper ynke and labour and of other mennes tyme also a greate deale more and had hurte his cause no more thereby then if he had lefte his dagger sheathe behynde hym when he came out in haste to plaie his parte in the pagiaunte But
still But how soeuer Caluin and Luther agree in the exposition of these fewe woordes Hoc est corpus meum This is my bodie thei agree bothe in this that the Papistes expound them falsely For to vse the places by M. Dorman noted out of Hosius he nor all Papistes with hym shall neuer be able to showe cause why these woordes Ego sum vitis vera I am the true vine dooe not prooue as well a transubstantiation as Hoc est corpus meum This is my bodie Is not this as plainlie spoken and as piththilie I am a true or a verie vine as This is my bodie Naie if Christe had saied likewise this is my true and verie bodie as he saied I am a true or verie dine what a rule had we then had Christe saieth Ego sum panis I am breade and yet no transubstantiation of his bodie into breade Why should these woordes Hoc est corpus meum This is my bodie more transubstantiate bread into his bodie This is fondlie alleged saieth M. Dorman If wee saie likewise that all that he hath here said of the controuersie of the Sacramente out of place leauyng his purposed matter vnproued is verie fonde what hath he then wonne that I maie vse his owne phrase Dorman Fol. 13. The Anabaptistes who denie the Baptisme of infantes leane thei not thinke you to this grounde of yours Yea truelie and good reason it is that beyng all heretikes as you are although in some poinctes dissentyng yet all ioignyng and agreeing in one cancred hatred againste the Churche you should all vse the same rules principles For that I maie here passe ouer that reason of the Anabaptistes which belongeth to an other place that therefore infantes must not bee Baptized because it is not expressed in Scripture a principle also of your religion but deliuered vnto vs by tradition saie thei not also that thei haue the scripture plaine for them againste vs VVhere it hath Qui crediderit baptizatus fuerit saluus erit He that beleueth and is baptized shal bee saued and againe in an other place vna fides vnum baptisma one faithe one baptisme By whiche places saie thei it appeareth that faithe must go before and baptisme folowe after And when the Catholikes to represse and vtterlie ouerthrowe this brutishe and beastlie opinion answere that for infantes thus baptized the faithe of the churche is sufficient and accounted for theirs crie thei not as you doe that in this controuersie one place of scripture muste expounde an other And that therefore where as the scripture requireth in him that is baptized faithe that thei must haue it of their owne accordyng to the Apostles saiyng fides ex auditu faithe commeth by hearyng whiche infantes can not haue and according to the saiyng of the Prophete Iustus ex fide sua victurus est the iuste manne shall liue by his owne faithe Nowell First to M. Dormans false sclaunder we answere we bee no heretikes no Arrians no Anabaptistes we teache of Christes diuinitie and of Baptisme and all other thynges accordyng to Gods woorde Where he saieth the Catholikes doo represse and ouerthrowe the brutishe opinions of the Anabaptistes we aunswere that it is moste certaine well knowen to the worlde that our menne haue saied and written more againste them then euer did the Papistes Wherefore wee bee therein as in all other thynges in deede the Catholikes and not thei Dorman Fol. 13. I am sorie that in answeryng to this fonde reason I haue been compelled to make any mention of suche horrible heresies as these are whiche I had muche rather were with their firste authours buried in helle from whence thei came where neither thei nor their name mighte euer hereafter offende the conscience of any good Christian manne But as I haue necessarilie laied before your eyes theise that by a parte you maie iudge of the whole so haue I willinglie staied my selfe from rehearsyng whole swarmes of suche opinions as beyng of all menne taken for confessed heresies onelie depende vpon this one false grounde that wee neede here in earth no other iudge to decide and determine doubtes arisyng vpon the scripture then the scripture it self whiche beyng thei saie laied and conferred together one texte with an other will not faile to bryng vs to the right vnderstandyng thereof Nowell What other necessitie I praie you put the man to this sorowe he speaketh of or compelled hym to suche mention but onelie the defecte of proofes for his purposed matter of the necessitie of one heade ouer all the churche whiche lacke he is driuen to supplie with such digressions of the Swenkfeldians Arrians and Anabaptistes altogether impertinente to his purpose and with declaimyng against the scriptures and woorde of God Whiche distresse also droue him destitute of matter so often to repeate that one séelie similitude and euell likelihood betwene the Iuishe high Priest and the Pope And yet M. Dorman thus digressyng and swaruyng hymself is not ashamed to speake to the Bishop of Sarum after this sorte I moste hartelie praie you keepe you without straiyng from the matter or allegyng of prooues impertinente as close as you can c. This is M. Dormans requeste whereof hymself hath geuen an example as you here maie see Now if al heretikes and heresies were as M. Dorman wisheth buried in hell then should the Pope with all his Papistes be buried together with them and we might liue still and with quietnesse praise Gods holie name preache his blessed woorde whiche maister Dorman dooeth set so light by To the reste we saie that as for resoluyng of doubtes wee dooe with saincte Augustine as is before rehersed thinke the conference of scriptures to bée moste necessarie so dooe we not refuse any other helpe of learned bishops as our guides and directours by the same Scriptures to all truthe But suche a one onelie supreme heade or Iudge ouer all the Churche as M. Dorman would haue to bee consulted of all men of all countries and languages vpon all doubtes arisyng neither dooe we acknowlege neither is it possible any suche to be And we saie that suche as haue chalenged or pretended so to be are moste presumptuous moste false vsurpers Now where M. Dorman would proue the conference of Scriptures a vaine or euill thing bicause the Arrians and Anabaptistes vsed it and vs to be heretikes as thei be because we vse the same groūdes to witte cōferring of scriptures together he might aswell reiecte all allegyng of scripture because the deuill vsed it and conclude that we bee of the deuill because we vse the same grounde that he dooeth that is to saie the allegyng of Scriptures Yea and he maie by the same reason finde faulte with Christe our sauiour and his holie Apostles who dooe so muche vse the saied allegyng of scriptures And M. Dorman in so dooyng should bee as reasonable as he is in callyng vs heretikes and blamyng vs vsyng
ecclesiaruÌ„ esse coÌ„suetudineÌ„ vt ad eos qui longè iÌ„ minoribus vrbibê° per presbyteros diaconos baptizati sunt episcopus ad inuocationeÌ„ sanctispuÌ„s manuÌ„ impositurus excurrat c. That is I doo not denie this to bée the custome of churches that y e bishop doeth come to those that be Baptised in lesser tounes by Priestes deacons to laie his hand vpon them with the inuocatioÌ„ of the holy ghost And shortly after he saieth Quòd si hoc loco quaeris quare in ecclesia baptizatus nisi ê‘ manus episcopi noÌ„ accipiat spirituÌ„ sanctuÌ„ queÌ„ oeÌ„s asserimus iÌ„ vero baptismate tribui disce haÌ„c obseruationeÌ„ ex ea autoritate descendere ê™ post ascensum dnÌ„i spuÌ„s sanctê° ad apostolos desceÌ„dit Et multis iÌ„ locis idem factitatuÌ„ reperimus ad honoreÌ„ potius sacerdotij quam legis necessitateÌ„ Alioqui si ad episcopi taÌ„tùm imprecationeÌ„ spuÌ„s sanctê° defluit lugeÌ„di sunt qui in viculis aut in castellis aut iÌ„ remotioribus locis per praesbyteros diaconos baptizati antè dormierunt quà m ab Episcopis inuiserentur Ecclesiae salus in summi sacerdotis dignitate pendet cui si non exors quaedam ab omnibus eminens detur potestas tot in ecclesiis effictentur schismata quot sacerdotes That is to saie If you aske in this place wherefore he that is Baptised in the Churche doeth not receiue the holie ghost but by the handes of the bishop the whiche holie ghost we all doo affirme to bee geuen in true Baptisme Learne this obseruation to come of that authoritie that after the ascension of our Lorde the holie ghost came doune vnto the Apostles And we finde that the same is dooen in many places rather for the honour of Priesthoode then of the necessitie of the lawe Els if the holie Ghoste come doune onelie at the praier of the bishop thei are to be lamented who being baptised by Priestes and deacons in little tounes and villages or places further of doo dye before thei be visited by the bishops The healthe of the church dependeth vpon the estimation of the chief Priest who if he haue not authoritie pearelesse and aboue all other ye shall haue in the churche so many schismes as there be Priestes Thus farre S. Hierome whose woordes I haue repeated at large and in the last place without any intermission haue ioigned the verie woordes by D. Hardyng and M. Dorman alledged to S. Hieromes woordes nexte before Whereby it is moste euidente that S. Hierome speaketh of euery bishop in his owne diocesse and of the priestes and deacons that bée vnder hym in his said diocesse And that the authoritie which S. Hierome saieth the Bishop hath is the authoritie of laiyng his handes vpon children or other lately baptised by inferiour ministers and curates in villages of the said diocesse whiche authoritie is apperteinyng to all bishops in their owne diocesse that bishops haue that authoritie geueÌ„ them aboue other priestes or deacons beyng curates of smaller tounes and villages in their diocesse not by the necessitie of Gods lawe but for the honour of their bishoprike For if euery priest of the diocesse should in all poinctes bée of equall authoritie with the bishop there would arise so many Schismes by the arrogancie of the priestes as there bée priestes And for this cause hath euery bishop an authoritie pearelesse as M. Dorman dooth translate it and aboue all other priestes in his diocesse For it is euident by the places before alledged that comparison is made betwene priestes deacons and cuvates in smal tounes and villages who haue authoritie to baptise beeyng many and betwene the Bishop of the diocesse who is one and the high prieste in the saied diocesse and hath authoritie pearelesse ouer all other priestes and deacoÌ„s in the same diocesse And that there is no comparison here made betwene the bishoppe of Rome as the high prieste or bishop ouer all other priestes and bishops as D. Hardyng and M. DormaÌ„ without all shame would wrest it whereas there is not one woorde from the beginnyng of that longe dialogue of S. Hieromes vnto this place by them alleged nor to the ende of the same either written or meante of the bishop of Rome but of euery Bishop in his owne diocesse And therefore this whole matter is altogether impertinente to D. Hardyng and M. Dormans purpose of one onely heade ouer the whole Churche vnlesse M. Dorman would frame vs therof this leude argument Sainct Hierome saith that euery bishop ought to haue authoritie aboue all other priestes of his owne diocesse ergo the Bishop of Rome ought to haue a preemineÌ„ce pearelesse aboue all bishops of all diocesses and ouer the whole churche throughout the whole worlde Whiche maie well bee M. DormaÌ„s reason but fure I am that no reasonable man beyng awake will so reason To conclude you see it is not without great cause that D. Hardyng in his booke calleth this place of S. Hierome a notable place and saieth that it maie not be lette passe whiche his maisters woordes M. Dorman well noting â–ª would not suffer it to passe vntill he had by the handelyng thereof declared his notable foolishenesse Wherein as I doo little merueil of M. Dorman whom the leudeâ— the writyng is the better it dooeth become hym so can I not but muche muse how it should come to passe that doctor Hardyng or any of any honestie and learnyng should so abuse hymself and the readers with the allegation of suche impertinente places and with what conscience and shamefastnesse thei can doo it Vnlesse thei thinke that this excuse maie serue in matters of religion also Dolus an virtus quis in hoste requirat which is to saie What matter maketh it whether you vse fine force plaine truthe or guile with an enemie And therefore thei deale with vs rather as enemies then as doeth become themselues beyng Christians or as apperteineth to the treatie of religion woorthie of al truthe sinceritie Dorman fol. 5. And againe in an other place speakyng of the apostles he writeth thus Quòd vnus posteà electus est qui caeteris praeponeretur in schismatis remâ—dium factum est ne vnusquisque ad se traâ—ens ecclesiam rumperet That is That one was afterwarde chosen to rule the reste that was dooen for a remedie against schismes least while euery man would chalenge to hymself the churche by suche halyng and pullyng thei might breake the same No well S. Hierâ—me in his epistle to Euagrius she weth that praesbyter and episcopus a Priest and a bishop bee all one by the firste institution and by the Lawe of God whiche he proueth by many testimonies of the scâ—ipâ—ures and withall he declareth that the Apostles themselues were called praesbyteri that is to saie elders or priestes So that all bishops whiche be the successours of the Apostles bee also praesbyteri that is to saie
is most euident But now let vs heare S. Cyprian in his epistle to Rogatianus Habes inquit Cyprianus circa huiusmodi homines praecepta diuina cùm Dominus deus in Deuteronomio dicat â–ª Et homo quicunque c. Thou hast saith saincte Cyprian to Rogatianus his felowe bishoppe in Afrike concernyng suche men to witte disobediente as was his Deacon the commaundementes of God whereas the Lorde God in Deuteronomie dooeth saie And what man so euer shall bee so proude that he will not heare the priest or iudge who so euer he be in those daies that man shall die and all the people shall feare and shall doo wickedlie no more And we maie knowe that this voice of God proceaded with true and greate maiestie to honour and to auenge his Priestes by the horible destruction of Chore Dathan and Abyron who rebelled against Aaron Thus farre S. Cyprian Where you maie sée that bothe this lawe of Deuteronomium the example of Aaron the estate of the Iuishe Churche and all other places of scripture falsely wrested by D. Hardyng and M. Dorman to the proofe of the supremacie of one to witte the bishoppe of Rome are by S. Cyprian who died an holie martyr and is no doubt a sainct in heauen applied to the maintenaunce of euery Bishops authoritie in his owne diocesse and the obedience there due vnto hym And note withall that S. Cyprian saieth that this and like places of the scriptures apperteine to the honour of Gods Prtestes he saieth not to the honour of one high prieste head ouer all other Naie he confesseth in the beginnyng of this epistle that Rogatianus did but of curtesie not of duetie referre this matter of his disobedient deacon by complainte to S. Cyprian though he were the Metropolitane of Afrike beyng bishoppe of Carthage the chiefe citie thereof and graunteth that Rogatianus by the vigore of his bishoprike authoritie of his Chaire had power to order the matter hymself and for the vigore of this Rogatianus bishoprike and authoritie of his chaire and consequently of all other Bishoprikes and bishops chaires doeth S. Cyprian allege these and all other places of scripture falslie detorted by the Papistes to these of Rome and sainct Peters chaire there as thei call it Sainct Cyprian allegeth the same place of Deutero cap. 17. and all suche like for his owne authoritie against Pupianus despisyng hym beyng Bishop of Carthage whom saincte Cyprian chargeth to transgresse this law of God of obeiyng the high priest for that he maketh hymself Episcopum episcopi iudicem iudicis ad tempus à Deo dati a bishop ouer the Bishop and a iudge ouer the iudge appoincted of God for the tyme. Which is the verie propertie of that false vsurper of Rome who maketh hymself head bishop ouer al bishops and head iudge ouer all iudges by God in euery their iurisdictions appoincted to bee obeied of all their owne flocke and not to be vnder a foraigne vsurper And as he dooeth by saincte Cyprian his iudgemente transgresse this Gods lawe in makyng hymself iudge of the iudge by God appoincted so doubte I not but the iudgemente of the saied lawe He shall dye the death will light vpon hym for his pride arrogancie and tyrannie ouer his brethren and equalles by Gods lawe And though suche horrible Luciferian pride anâ— other wickednesse vnspeakeable as is in the Pope seeme to bee reserued to Gods euerlastyng iudgementes for that no worldly penaltie can bee sufficiente for suche desertes yet dooeth God in our daies not longe before the commyng of his sonne to iudgemente denounce the same moste manifestly and as it were peremptorilie to hym and his Dorman Fol. 7. For I remember a saiyng of Cregorius Nazianzenus Vbi nullum est imperium nullus ordo vbi multorum ibi seditio vt sic nullum imperium nullus ordo existat Vtrumque enim eôdem absâ—rditatis perducit VVhere is none to rule there is no order VVhere many rule there is sedition so that after that maner of gouernemente also there is no gouernement there is no order For bothe to haue none to rule to haue many leade vs to like inconuenieÌ„ce How shal we then saie Diligit dominus Syon super omnia tabernaculae Iacob Our lorde loueth Syon aboue all the tabernacles of Iacob Nowell You maie note that M. Dorman hath a good memorie who can and dare without the booke rehearse to vs sentences out of doctours for his proofes and publishe the same to the worlde and boldely in the steede of one God gouernyng all for of hym speaketh Nazianzene in that place to dashe vs in the teethe with one Pope to gouerne all the churche I would M. Dorman had enlarged his memorie somewhat to a fewe woordes of Nazianzene goyng next before and makyng all the matter moste plaine whiche M. Dorman therefore of purpose to blinde the reader hath omitted suche a shreude memorie hath the man The woordes of Nazianzene confutyng twoo false opinions that men had of God are these Prima opinio nullum Deum nullum Dei imperium alia Deos multos cuique suum imperium statuit c. Sed vbi nullum est imperium ibi nullus ordo c. That is to saie The firste false opinion of God is that there is no God no gouernaunce of God the seconde that there are many Goddes and that euery of them hath his gouernauÌ„ce by hymself But where no rule is there is no order where many rule there is sedition These are Nazianzene his woordes againste those that thinke that either there is no God or many goddes whiche M. Dorman out of his memorie reporteth as spoken against those who would haue no pope or many Popes But you sée it is not good trustyng to M. Dormans memorie who dooeth so readily without booke allege thynges neither against vs nor with himself but altogether impertinent to the purpose Now if M. Dorman list transferre the sentence from God gouernyng all the worlde to men vnder hym rulyng in the worlde and would thereof frame vs this argumente Nazianzene saieth there is one onely God who gouerneth all Ergo there muste bee one onely Pope or head bishop to gouerne all the Churche I deny the argumente and affirme that it foloweth no more then that there must be one onely Emperour to gouerne al the worlde And to bragge somewhat of memorie too as M. Dorman dooeth I remember that M. Dorman hymself hath alleged that for auoidyng of confusion in the worlde euery kyngdome euery countrey euery citie euery companie of menne muste haue an head to rule them Whereof I inferre that for auoydyng of schismes and explication of doubles euery churche of euery countrey and diocesse ought to haue an head and a iudge to resorte vnto And as there is no confusion in the worlde nor discorde for that sundrie partes of the worlde haue sundrie ciuill gouernours as is moste necessarie that thei haue and is
reader meruaile not that I answere this merie manne thus rufflyng in his maskes after this maner but weighe I praie thee his writyng from this place forwardes where he praieth that he be not holden and marke what a shreude shakyng he maketh speciallie for a whole leafe more next after folowyng Where you say M. DormaÌ„ that we blind the people with glitteryng shewes you dooe obiecte to vs your owne crimes It is you Papistes who by your glitteryng glorious maskyng garmentes and other costlie and fine furniture as copes vestimentes gilted crosses candlestickes dead mennes and often dead beastes boones burnished ouer with burnyng gold by your Ceremonies your minstrelsie your belles banners and other bables haue bewitched and striken not onely the simple but a greate many of the wiser sorte also starke blind and deaffe too that neither thei can sée any thing of Christ their sauiour nor heare and vnderstand ought of his moste holie woorde And you haue compelled theÌ„ in the steed of sincere and spirituall woorship of the true God with you to put all religion in outward dumbe ceremonies the seelie weake and wretched elementes of this worlde and not to regarde the God of their fathers but in stéede of him to honour the God Maozim and to woorshippe a God whom their fathers did not knowe with glitteryng golde siluer precious stone and other precious thynges in place of true vnfaigned faithe and a pure harte With what securitie we dooe vtter the truth forbidden vs by you as it was to Christes Apostles by the high Priestes and Phariseis your forefathers all prisons in EnglaÌ„de replenished of late with our captiue bodies all markette places and other more viler sprinkeled with our bloud shed by the crueleste kinde of death that the Deuill the homicide your greate graundfather could diuise dooeth plentifully testifie to the whole worlde And the moste part of vs losyng our liues together with all worldelie hope by death more dreadfull then is vsuall either to Felons murtherers or to moste sauage noisome wilde beastes might geue you to vnderstande if you would consider that it is no newe fangled appetite or luste of vtteryng errours or hope of worldlie gaine that dooeth moue vs to preache against your heresies and superstitions but euen the same méere necessitie of conscience whiche in like case inforced the Apostles likewise forbidden vpon paine of death to preache who made answere that it was more reason to obeie God then maÌ„ and that thei could not choose but teache those thinges whiche thei did knowe certainlie to be moste true And the same answere dooe we make to you for the whiche you will suffer vs to haue no securitie in this life Concernyng the scripture and the sense thereof the reader maie in a like case coÌ„sider Whereas there was a controuersie betwene the Apostles and the high priestes Scribes and Phariseis aboute the interpretation of the Scriptures touchyng the true Messias by the whiche Scriptures the Apostles prooued that Christe our Sauiour whom thei had crucified was he but the high Priestes and Phariseis by their interpretations attempted the contrarie and would not haue suche a poore and abiect man as to them and the worlde it séemed that Christ was to be their Messias Now had the Apostles as M. Dorman me thinke thinketh it reason leauyng the Scriptures in this case moste plaine referred the matter to the interpretation and determination of the high priest his consistorie wée might at this daie with the Iewes haue looked yet for a Messias to come and should with them haue lacked to our vtter damnation the sauiour of the worlde Iesus Christ the sonne of God who is at this daâ—e to them by reason of suche their interpretations the stone of stumbâ—yng and the rocke of ruine but to vs who doo beleue in him he is become wisedome and righteousnesse and sanctification and saluation And as there was then a coÌ„tronersie betweene the Apostles and the high Priestes whether thei had vniustlie or iustlie slaine that righteous one and innocent Lambe of God and no reason it was that the murtherers themselues should be iudges beyng not onelie accessaries but the principall parties to the murther so there being now risen a controuersie betwene vs and you about the true religioÌ„ of the same our Saniour whiche how shamefullie you haue with your traditioÌ„s corrupted euen as had your forefathers the Phariseis before corrupted the law of God he that hath but halfe an eye maie well seâ— you thinke it reason yet that you who are the corrupters and therefore parties should bee iudges therein also and speciallie your chief and moste high Prieste the Pope the poodle and sinke of all these abominations therefore moste guiltie of all other and consequently moste vnmeete to be the Iudge therein And yet M. Dorman will néedes haue hym the Iudge and the woorde of God so indifferent to all men and partiall to none reiected And why reiected I praâ—e you Forsoothe for that we maie by the Scriptures defende as you saie what errour wée liste as though that you maie not by the iudgemente of the Pope and by your own iudgementes vnder the name of the churche farre more easilie as you haue brought in so also mainteine and defende all errours and superstitions Is not the Pope more partiall to hymself and you his Papistes then are the Scriptures to vs Wherefore it were as good reason that Annas and Caiphas should bee Iudges whether thei themselues had dooen iustlie and righteouslie or wickedlie and murderouslie in sleayng Christe as that your Pope or you the corrupters of true Religion should be iudges whether in so dooyng you haue dooen well or no. If it be no reason as the prouerbe goeth to aske whether one bee a theefe or no of his felowe muche lesse reason is it to aske the same question of hymself seyng it is certaine that he will not bewraie hymself But the aduersaries of the Gospell deale thus with vs the Pope and all his eleargie beeyng guiltie of many heresies corruptions of religion and false superstitions and thereof accused dooe assemble themselues together in a councell in the whiche nothyng maie bée moued muche lesse determined but suche as pleaseth the Pope hymself there is enquirie made of vs who dooe accuse them thereof and offer to prooue it and there vnhearde and vnseene wee are condemned of our aduersaries who will needes bee our Iudges as false accusers schismatikes and heretikes also for that wee are againste them who are as thei saie the Churche You will saie wee might bee heard if wee would for thei call certain of all Christian realmes to their councelles How we are called and how we maie be heard let Ihon Husse called by the Emperour Sigismunde his saulfe conducte vnder his greate Imperiall seale to the Councell of Constance with Hierome of Prague who bothe were contrary to the faith geuen them by the greatest Christian prince in
the world condemned and burned to ashes bee an eternall witnesse Yea let their owne decree made in the saied Councell whiche was That no faithe nor promise is to bee kepte to any heretike nor that any manne by any promise standeth bound to an heretike for so thei call all those that dare speake against them bee a perpetuall testimonie of the same Thei saie wee are heretikes wee dooe deny it if our naie maie not defende vs why should their yea coÌ„demne vs Thei saie because thei bee the churche but wee deny the same shall here their yea secue for theÌ„ as it did before against vs and our naie neither touch theÌ„ nor helpe vs In some countreis if the partie accused pleade not guiltie and saie naie to the crime obiected if he by diuers tormentes enforced to confesse doo still maintaine his naie and passe through the appoincted tormentes constanly mainteinyng his naie he is discharged and let goe But it caÌ„ not healp vs accused as heretikes to denie the false accusation to mainteine our deniall in all tormentes and moste cruell deathes neither to bring good testimonie of our innocencie out of Gods woorde all these can helpe vs nothyng against their onelie bare saiyng that we bee heretikes for that is all their proofe In what case are we then How easily maie thei then bothe defende themselues coÌ„demne vs and maintaine what thei list be it right or wrong truthe or falshoode beyng accusers witnesses examiners and iudges theÌ„selues in the causes wherein thei bée parties and parties accused also Wherefore what can we dooe els but as did Christ our sauiour and his holie Apostles against the high Priestes against the Phariseis and Scribes appeale to God not absent not dumbe as M. Dorman deuiseth and saiyng nothyng at all for vs as he would haue it seme but to God yea and to our Sauiour Christe his soonne speakyng his minde moste largelie and plainly in the scriptures and beyng no partie but moste indifferent iudge betwéene them and vs. For if the controuersie be about true Religion and scruice of God what better triall can there be then Goddes woorde God hymself commaundyng vs that in his seruice we shall dooe that whiche he coÌ„maundeth vs that wee shall neither adde thereto nor take any thyng therefrom What better Iudge can there be in this worlde betwene vs then Gods woorde whiche as our sauiour Christ saieth shall iudge vs in the worlde to come If the controuersie bee aboute the true churche what better iudge can there bee then the Scripture writen by the Prophetes and the Apostles seyng it is testified to vs by the spirite of GOD moste plainelie that the true churche is builded and staied vpon the foundation of the Prophetes of the Apostles And though this dooe not like M. Dorman and suche as he is yet you shall heare that it did not misâ—â—ke the old and holie fathers of the auncient and true churche that suche controuersies should bee so quietted by the scriptures Sainct Augustine coÌ„tendyng against those who doo attribute Gods grace and giftes to the woorthinesse of mennes merites coÌ„cludeth thus Cedamus consentiamus autoritati scripturae sancte quae nescit falli nec fallere That is to say Let vs geue place and aagrée to th'autoritie of the holy scripture whiche caÌ„ not bee deceiued nor deceiue others The same S. Augustine contending with the Donatistes hath these woordes Nos nullam Cypriano facimus iniuriam cum eius quaslibet literas à canonica Diuinarum scripturaruÌ„ autoritate distinguimus neque sine causa tam salubri vigilantia Canon ecclesiasticus constitutus est ad queÌ„ certi prophetaruÌ„ ApostoloruÌ„ libri pertineÌ„t quos omnino iudicare noÌ„ audemus secundum quos de caeteris fideliuÌ„ infideliuÌ„ iudicamus mox ca. 32. Ego huius epistolÄ™ autoritate noÌ„ teneor quia literas Cypriani noÌ„ vt canonicas habeo sed eius ex canonicis considero quod iÌ„ eis diuinaruÌ„ scripturatuÌ„ autoritati coÌ„gruit cum laude eius accipio quod auteÌ„ noÌ„ congruit cuÌ„ pace eius respuo Whiche is to saie We doo Cyprian no wrong when we make a difference betweene euery letter and writing of his and the Canonicall autoritie of the holy scriptures Neither without cause thecclesiasticall Canon with so holsome care hath béen appoincted to the whiche the certain assured bookes of the Prophetes Apostles pertaine the which in no wise we presume to iudge and according to the which we iudge of all other bookes writinges both of the faithfull and of the infidels And straight waies after in the 32. chapiter I am not bound to the autoritie of this epistle because I hold not Cyprians letters and writynges for Canonicall but consider his writynges by the Canonicall what accordeth in them to the auctoritie of the diuine Scriptures I allowe with his praise and what disagreeth froÌ„ them by his leaue I refuse These are the woordes of S. Augustine You maie sée here how S. Augustine preferreth the scriptures before the doctours yea before S. Cyprian so often by you M. Dorman alleged who was in deede a blessed martyr is no doubt a sainct in beauen and who also is mosse against you euen where he is alleged by you You see S. Augustine will haue sainct Cyprians writynges and all other doctours and mennes saiynges and writynges examined and Iudged by the scriptures whiche you yet reiecte as no coÌ„uenient iudges and that the scriptures maie be iudged by no man Yea S. Cyprian hymself agreyng hereto sheweth the causes why heresies schismes corruption of the truthe and breache of vnitie dooe come into the Churche and why so many are deceiued by the deuill transformyng hymself into an angell of light by these woordes Hoc eò fit fratres dilectissimi dum ad veritatis originem non reditur nec caput quaeritur nec magistri coelestis doctrina seruatur Quae si quis consideret examinet tractatu longo at que argumentis opus noÌ„ est That is to saie This coÌ„meth to passe hereof moste beloued brethren for that wée dooe not retourne to the origene â—â— beginnyng of the truthe neither is the head sought nor the doctrine of the heauenlie maistor kepte The whiche thynges if a man dooe consider and examine it shall not neede any long treatiâ— orargumentes Thus farre saincte Cyprian Who calleth Christe originem veritatis caput vnum caput originem vnam magistrum coelestem c. To saie The beginnyng of the truthe the head the onelie head the onely beginnyng the heaueÌ„lie schole maister whose doctrine if we would obserue we should not saith S. Cyprian neede any longe treatie or argumenâ—es But for that this beginnyng of the truthe is not returned vnto this heade is not soughte for the doctrine of this hâ—auenlie schoolemaister is not kepte he affirmeth it to bee the cause of all heresies schismes endlesse contentions illusions
after whiche sorte any meane man may bee counted learned This I am hable to prooue as true as I haue hithertoo I trust prooued you M. Dorman a lier in all you haue hitherto written and doubt nothing so to procéede with you to th ende of your leude lies laden in this your Lighter of false fables Wherfore Hosius deserueth the name of the Compilator rather than the author of that great booke wrytten against Brentius litle booke intitled Prolegomena for that he hath stolen all his authorities and reasons out of the sayde Pighius his Hierachie and Alphonsus de Haeresibus as all learned reading the sayde bookes shall most easely and plainly perceiue Yea and in compilyng them together it is iudged vpon probable coniectures by the style and poeticall phrases and verses vnmeete for Hosius age and vocation that as he hath borowed the mater of his bookes so hath he had the helpe of other in penning of the same and yet may he well call the bookes his owne as bought with his owne money and large rewardes bestowed vpon his style wrightes Concerninge his great vertue though I know not his life yet I iudge it a woorthie mattier for M. Dorman his commendation and him selfe woorthie of the court of Rome But I can saye litle herein onely this can I say that his neighbours dwelling néerer him than I dooe a good sorte of hundreth miles doo in printed bookes obiect to him that his Cardinalles hatte I would say head will be nowe and then ouerladen with Polonishe pottes I knowe not trulie or otherwise but as his neighbours doo say Dorman fol. 11. For gods sake good Christian readers for your ovvne soules sake and the loue that you beare therto geue eare to no suche sedicious voices hovve euer they be cloked vvith the name of Christ vvhiche the diuell then dooth most inculcat vvhen he vvould driue vs sonest frō him Novvell I trust that all good Christian readers for that loue that they beare to God who is the truthe will geue no eare to suche false fables as M. Dorman and other aduersaries of the truthe doo publishe in suche leude liynge bookes as this is and that vpon respect◠of the health of their soules they will flie farre from the blouddie Butcher of Rome who vsinge the cloke of Christes name onely denieth him in déede and placing in his place his piuishe pardons and other popishe pelfrie destroyeth as well Christian mens soules by his poysoned doctrine as he dooeth murder their bodies by the most cruell kinde of death that the Diuell his father and he can deuise And by the way note that to speake truely of a foraigne false Polonish Papiste is with M. Dorman accōpted sedition as though because he is a Cardinall he were therefore our laufull magistrate whiche wist I were true I would geue more reuerence to our Cardinalles in Paules churche then I hitherto haue done And sure I am they deserue for their Cardinalshippe as muche honour as dooeth Hosius yea and more too were false opiniō banished thinges truely as they are in déede weighed and estéemed For they yet according to their origine minister the sacraments visite the sicke as is the propre office of Curates to doo wherunto Christian princes once at the last I trust awaking will bring these personate visered Romaine parishe priestes from their vsurped worldly pompe and dominion and that the said Princes will reduce the Pope himselfe likewyse from his phantasied supremacie ouer the vniuersall churche to his peculiar cure of the churche of Rome And thus I lette this Hosius one of the greatest estates both for learnyng and vertue that this daye Christendome hath for so M. Dorman saieth for this time alone with his Cardinals scarlet hatte and his moile trapped according for his estate Dorman fol. 11. VVhat other thing did their forefathers Chore Dathan and Abyron in rebelling against Moses and Aaron the ministers of almightie God VVhat other persvvasion vsed they to the people vvhat other reason broughte they to allure from their obedience to rebellion from quiet rest to seditious vvandering vvithout a head the flocke of God then the very same that these miserable men of our time dooe Their apologie saieth that there nedeth here in the churche no head to gouerne it because Christe is alvvayes vvith it And did not those vvicked men in their rebellion against Moses and Aaron vse the same reason vvhen they tolde theim to their face Sufficiat vobis quia omnis multitudo sanctorum est in ipsis est dominus Let it suffice you that all the multitude is holy and they haue God present vvith them Cur eleuamini super populum domini And vvhy then take you vpon your selues the rule ouer the people of our lorde As vvho vvould saye hauyng no neede of any other ruler God being vvith them But as almyghty God vvas then emongest his people and vsed yet neuerthelesse the ministery of men so is Christe no doubt our sauiour novve present alvvayes vvith his churche and chiefe head and gouernour therof and yet gouerneth he the same by man And as Chore Dathan and Abiron be gone before svvalovved aliue by hell there to taste of those revvardes vvhiche for suche rebellious vvretches are prepared so must our Chore and his companions follovve their trace onlesse by their repentaunce they mollifie and assvvage the iust vvrath of God Novvell This historie is by many aduersaries alleaged against vs as vnlawfully rebellyng against the Pope specially by Cardinall Poole against kinge Henry the eight Concernyng the matter it selfe séeyng Chore Dathan and Abiron were so horribly punished for rebellion against Moses and Aaron and certein it is that of these twoo Aaron was the hyghe prieste and that yet Moses was his superiour it foloweth therefore that Moises to saye the prince of the people is aboue the bishop or highe priest whiche you can not abide or els to auoyde that mattier you must saye as you some where dooe that Moises was priest also whiche if it be true inforceth that there were two highe priestes at once ouer the people of God and so is your assertion of the supremacie of one onely high priest ouer the whole churche quite ouerthrowen For you say M. Dorman That you haue perceiued that God in that people in their lavve and priesthood shadovved out vnto vs like a cunning vvorkeman the vvhole forme and proportion of his churche Wherfore M. Dorman I praye you marre not gods proportion and forme of his churche but as you will néedes haue an Aaron or high priest in the saide churche so let vs also haue a Moises to be his superior in the same For which way soeuer you turne you sure I am that by the scriptures the title of priesthoode may as well apperteine to a christian Prince as it did to Moises so that there is no let nor lacke therin but that a christian Prince may as wel be superiour to
vnknowen to all the worlde and all menne to liue not onely without explication of doubtfull places of the scripture but without knowledge of any place of the scripture at all and in steede of Gods woorde to haue pampered vp Gods people with their poisoned pappe of Poperie But saieth M. Dorman God did not commaunde any suche conference of scriptures but onelie to resorte to the high Prieste yet I trust M. DormaÌ„ is not ignorant what it meaneth that God and our sauiour Christ dooe so earnestlie exhorte all men to the diligent readyng and studie of the scriptures and dooe condemne the ignoraunce or wante of knowledge thereof And where he saieth God hath not commaunded suche conference of the scriptures which yet in effecte he hath commaunded it is happie that he can not shewe where God hath forbidden it which if he could he would not haue failed to haue dooen But seyng M. Dorman setteth so muche by Gods commaundementes and would so faine haue vs leaue the conference of scriptures as not commaunded by God as he thinketh I would he should aduertise the Papistes his felowes that thei would once leaue their Idolatrie to Images with other their superstitions so ofte and expressedlie by God forbidden as to all godlie menne is well knowen Dorman fol. 12. For emongest so many as at all times haue disquieted the Churche what one heretike are thei able to recon ouerthrowen by the scriptures VVas Arrius vaÌ„quished by them Naie if you brought to coÌ„uince him this text Pater egovnum sumus my father I are one he would tell you againe that the same Christe that so saied saied also pater meus maior me est my father is greater then I. VVhat had you then wonne at his handes that would tell you that one place of Scripture muste expound an other and that therefore your place must bee expounded by his And if you would wade farder with hym he would interprete your place as he did with the catholikes to be vnderstande of vâ—itie in will and not in substaunce and bryng you scripture toe although wrested from the true sense that should seeme well to prooue his distinction As when our Sauiour praied vnto his father in this sorte pater sancte serua eos in nomine tuo quos dedisti mihi vt sint vnuÌ„ sicut et nos kepe theÌ„ ô holie father in thy name whom thou haste geuen to me that thei maie be one as we twoo are one Nowell First to M. Dormans demaunde whiche is the pith of all that he saieth in a leafe and more next folowyng I answere the Arrians Anabaptistes and all heretikes without exception were vanquished and ouerthrowen by the Scriptures and that if thei were not vaÌ„quished by the scriptures thei were not vanquished at all For what though thei saied thei were not vanquished were thei therefore not vanquished because thei would not coÌ„fesse it Did the Iuishe high priestes Scribes and Phariseis confesse themselues vanquished by Christe and his Apostles Were thei therefore not vanquished for that thei would not graunte it I would aske againe of M. Dorman what one heretike of so many can he recken ouerthrowen but by the scriptures But whereas M. Dorman hath been continually harpyng vpon this stryng against the scriptures labouryng to bryng vs from them to the Pope and his churche as he still holdeth on so to dooe leaste I should at euery occasion by him offered with tediousnesse repeate the same thynges againe I remitte the reader to the. 68. leafe of this booke before where and in the processe folowyng it is at large declared that if we doubt whether we be Christians or no we must be resolued by the scriptures if wee doubte whether we bee in the true faithe or no we muste resorte to the Scriptures if wee doubte whiche is the true Churche and whether we bee in the same or no we muste bee certified by the scriptures and that suche as seeke other meanes to bee resolued of these and suche like doubtes otherwise thaÌ„ by the scriptures shal be deceiued and perishe Where also is declared that neither the Pope nor Popishe Churche can be conuenient and competent iudges in controuersies now risen for that thei are both parties and parties accused therein no more then the Iewishe high priest with his churche of Scribes and Phariseis were conuenient and competent iudges in the controuersies betweene them and Christes Apostles for that the saied high Prieste Scribes and Phariseis were parties yea and parties accused and guiltie too of the death of Christ about whom was all the controuersie betwene them and therefore were thei moste vnméete to bee iudges thereof Touchyng the conference of the scriptures together I did so late before at large intreate thereof that I néede not now to repete the same again And thus muche to M. Dormans question Now if M. Dorman haue brought in this example of the Arrians to bryng vs in suspition with the simple people as fauouryng the Arrians all learned and godlie can cléerâ— vs who dooe knowe how muche wee dooe abhorre the Arrians heresies and how earnestlie in our sermons writynges wee dooe oppugne them yea Hosius your chief champion shall answere for vs who dooeth muche praise our writynges and dooynges too againste the Arrians Dorman Fol. 13. In the exposition and right vnderstandyng of these fewe woordes Hoc est corpus meum this is my bodie how happeneth it that the Caluinistes and the Lutheranes agree not by conferryng one place of the Scripture with an other if that bee so readie a waie Dooeth not Caluine with all his teache vs that the sense and true interpretation of these woordes muste needes be atteined by the conference of one place of Scripture with an other And to that ende dooe thei not fondlie allege saincte Paule callyng Christe a rocke yea Christe callyng hymself a vine when he was in deede neither the one nor the other but by a similitude As though because th'Apostle or Christ hymself vseth a figure in one place wee muste thinke that in all other he neuer spake otherwise By whiche abominable doctrine what letteth if a manne would bee so wicked to affirme that Christe the sonne of God and seconde persone in Trinitie were not the true and naturall sonne of God but by adoptioÌ„ onely and for that wicked heresie to bryng this texte Dedit eis potestatem filios dei fieri he gaue them power to be made the sonnes of God VVhiche wordes wee knowe beyng spoken by vs menne muste bee vnderstande by grace and adoption and frowardlie to mainteine that all the places whiche any good manne can bryng for the defence of the contrarie should bee drawen to this texte alleged by them and expounded and vnderstanded thereby Nowell This is M. Dormans vsage when he can saie nothyng of the presente case to intermingle foraine matters thereby to auert the readers minde from his principall cause remainyng vnprooued