in commending good woorcks And with the Tower disputation That hiâ— gospel is dowbtfull And lastly of all Apostles with Caluin to affirme that they were ouer superstitiouse and subiect to vice Yf I say these had not bene repugnant to protestancye why should they be thus disabled and disgraced Nether will I be contented to haue their dislyke manifested in particular against these Apostles and Euangelists as repugnant to their profession therby apparently testifying them selues not to haue bene aggreable to the Apostolical Church and consequently by M. Riders owne verdict to be base bastard and counterfett but I will also discouer their abiuration of the owld and new Testament together for being also vtterly against them so that they must be inforced to depend only vpon their Father of trueth their Prophet Apostle Angel Elias and third person of heauen as they tearme him num 2. their incomparable Luther who neuer had not will haue his lyke Luther in epist. ad Argentin An. 1525. certifying and assuring him selfe to haue bene first of that ranck saying Christum à nobis primo vulgatum audemâ— gloriari VVe dare boste Christ by vs first to haue bene published To which purpose I might haue no small furtherance by the disputation of the Tower Tower disputation 4. dayes Conference disauthentising owt of the owld Testament Tobias Iudith Hester Baruch VVisdome Ecclesiasticus 2. books of Machabees to which others adioyne the prayer of Manasses 2. Paralipomenon the Song of the Three children the story of Bel And owt of the new S. Lukes gospel Hebrues Iames 2. Peter 2. and 3. of Ihon Iude Apocalips c. But hauing them altogether by the resolution of protestant ring-leaders need the lesse to linger about parcels This then is Luthers decree concerning the owld testament Luth. to 3. Ienen 1 par Vide Iacob Carion in Chroncl An. 1556. pag. 151. Basilea Ne ingeretur nobis Moises Nos in nouo testamento Moisem nec videre nec audire volumus Let not Moises be thrust vpon vs we in the new testament will not abyde to see or heare Moises That he had rather neuer preache then propownd owt of Moises That he that doth alleage any thing of his Luther serm de Moise doth depriue Christ owt of the harts of men That Moises belongeth nothing to vs. That by receauing him all Iewish ceremonies must insue c. By Moises euery one vnderstandeth the owld Testament which Luther saith belongeth not to protestants and that they should not abyde to heare or see it Now concerning the new Testament thus speaketh Zuinglius Quotiescunque siue Christus siue Apostoli ad Scripturam relegant auditores Zuingl tom 2 â—lench Con. Anabap. fol. 10. inâ—ligunt non suos Apostolos aut euangelium c. As often as Christ or the â—â—ostles remitt any to Scripturs Ochinus lib. 2. dialog pag. 154. 155. 156. 157. they do not vnderstand their epistles or the â—spell but the owld testament Ochinus proceedeth more to the mater â—â—ying Non debemus plura credere quam crediderunt sancti faederis antiqui â—e should not beleeue more then the holy Saincts of the owld Testament â—herby he inferreth that we should not be bound to beleeue the â—rinitie consubstantialitie c. Because they are in the new testaâ—ent only and not in the owld By all which most vnchristian â—fidelitie is testifyed in the sight of God and man that these Reâ—rmers were nothing agreable to Moises the Prophets Apostles â—â—d Euangelists nor contrarywyse they to them But did the second hundred yeares Doctors coÌ„tent them better Contur 2. cap. 4. pag. 55. 65. edit Basil par Ioan. Operin Centur. 3. c. 4. p. 79. â—o say the Centuriasts Multae enim monstrosae incommodae opiniones â—ssim à Doctoribus sparsè reperiuntur Many monstruous and incommodous â—nions are found dispersed by the doctours What of the third they answer Doctores huius aetatis à vera doctrina Christi Apostolorum de bonis â—eribus declinarunt the doctours of this age declined from the doctrin of Christ â—â—d his Apostles as protestancie would haue it for good woorks Beza loc cit in num 30. epist. 81. What â—et of the fowerh then was papistrie vnderlayd by the concile of Nice say â—hey that congregation of Sophisters then was the creed made of Sathanasius 〈◊〉 Athanasius The histories of their liues so testifie What further might be sayd of the being of the â—rincipal primitiue Fathers Heremits Moncks or Fryers as for â—xample of Effrem Climachus Nazianzen Basil Hierom Augustin Daâ—ascen Gregorie c. Could these erecters of cloisters and Abbaies â—e fauourers of the subuerters of them Could these coÌ„menders â—f lyturgies or Masses of Fasting of care for the dead Centuriae Magdeburgicae Centuria 2. 3. 4. in Singularum capite 4. of Chastitie â—f Inuocation of Saincts of Good woorks of Confession of Traâ—itions of Preesthod of the Supremacie of ecclesiastical Cereâ—onies and of all papistrie being so acknowledged by your selues â—nd tearmed in the 30. number precedent doting foolish perâ—tious idle fanatical reprobat bewitched by the deuil no lesse damned then â—ucifer c. Could I say these men such commenders and so by â—rotestants abused be fauourers of Protestantcie or the first fiue â—undred yeares wherin such men were Popes Bishops Prelats â—onfessours Martyrs and Saincts and honored by all the Church â—f that tyme be fauourerers of the reprehenders of Masses â—asting care for the dead Chastitie Inuocations of saincts Good woorks Confession Traditions c. To conclude could the condemners of them to be hereticks who denyed the real presence â—â—â—â—â—â—et dial 3. c. 19 â—ertull de prescrip in Sarpiaco Iren. l. 3. Epiphan here 's by Basil de Spirit S. c. 27. August l. coÌ„ Max. c. Epiph. her 53. Hieron l. 1. con Iouin Marcel de error Montani Clem. l. 5. recog August her 11. 49. Con. Faust l. 22. c. 30.74.76.77 her 51.53 Greg. l. 4. dial c. 4. c. Clem. l. 5. recog August her 54. as Theodoret condeÌ„ned some or who denyed or disalowed TraditioÌ„s as Tertullian Ireneus Basil Augustin Epiphan condemned therfor the Gnosticks Marcion Cerdon Arius Eunomiâ— Aerius Nestorius or the despisers of Lent and fasting dayes such as besyd the former were the Eustathians and Iouinians condemned therfor by Tertullian Epiphan and Hierom or of Montanus Manicheans Circumcellions Donatists Aerians and Armenians for denial of CoÌ„fession of Freewill of the lawfulnes of Moncks and religiouse and Church riches of purgatorie and prayer for the dead condemned therfor by Marcelin Hierom Clement Augustin Gregorie c. or of Aetiâ— Eunomius Simon Magus affirming Solifidian Iustification condemned therfor by Clement and Augustin could I say by all the witt of man or aÌ„gels any accord be made betwixt al these as one Church They who condemned late protestant opinions in ancient hereticks and therfor by late protestants are in maner aforsaid condemned and
Christianitie but was of our religion Prou. 18. Impius cum in profundum venerit contemnet the impiouse man when he cometh to the depth of impietie he contemneth what trueth he contradicteth what falshod he mantayneth saying as befor I sayd in his mynde Populus me sibilat at mihi plaudo ipse domi all men shout at me Horace l. 1. Sat. 1. yet I applaud to my felfe in my home in my priuat conceit in my self pleasing fancies Eightly they impugne this article who in th' other extremitie to haue a visible Churche remass collect all sorts of Sectarists into one consenting congregation Such is Crispin Hamsted and Fox In whos monuments especialy of Ihon Fox how all sorts of malefactors are raked and assembled together and as discordant sectarists as euer weare Catts and doggs intermedled appeareth abundantly in the late learned books of the three conuersions of England of the hunting of the Fox c. by N. D. authoure of the Ward-word What communion they had shall also appeare in the next Article For conclusion sweet and true is that sentence S. August tra 33. in Ioan. of S. Augustin Credamus fratres quantum quisque amat ecclesiam tantum habet Spiritum sanctum as muche as euery one loueth the Churche so muche he hathe of the holy Ghost By which appeareth that these articles are not impertinently vnited by some in one The 10. Article of S. Symon The communion of Saincts the forgiuenes of synnes 19. Wheras by this article ther should be a comunication and vnitie betwixt the ould and new and the liuing and dead Christians in faythe hope and charitie in Sacraments in ceremonies in succours in all concourse they impugne this article first who denye all correspondence betwixt the saincts in heauen and men in earthe as also they impugne scripturs to be produced in our controuersie of the inuocation of Saincts conformable to this sayd Article Secondly they are disproued by this Article who are in deepest and most irreconcilable discords among them selues in the specifyed points Such to be all late pretended reformers one against another is now to be demonstrated in general and in particular Lutherani inquit Sturmius libris publicè editis Sturnius de ratione contradict incundae pag. 24. Ecclesias Anglicanas Gallicas Belgicas Scoticas Helueticas tanquam haereticas condemnant eorum matyres martyres Diaboli vocant c. The Lutherans quoth Sturmius in their published boooks do condemne the Churches of England Epitome colloq Maulbrune an 1564. pag. 82. Fraunce Flandres Scotland Zuittzerland they call their martyrs martyrs of the Deuil c. Agayne quòd scribunt Zuingliani se à nobis pro fratribus agnitos id tam impudenter tantaque vanitate ab illis confictum est vt illorum impudentiam mirari satis nequeamus Nos verò vt in ecclesia locum illis nullum concedimus ita etiam pro fratribus minimè agnoscimus quos spiritu mendacij agitari deprehendimus in filium hominis contumeliosos esse what the Zuinglians wryte that they by vs are accompted brethren that is so impudently and vaynly forged by them that we can not sufficiently admire ther impudencie For we as we accompt them not in the Churche so also do we as litle repute them our brethren whom we fynde transported by the spirit of falshod and to be contumelious against the sonn of God The Caluinists weare not slack in requyting Lutherans Schlusselburg Theol. Cal. l. 3. aâ—t 6. Ioan. Iezlet Zuinglio Caluinista l de diu tur bel 1 Eucharistici pag 25. 80. as is euident by Schlusselburg saying Quod Caluinistae nos Lutheranos volunt habere pro fratribus quos tamen vt haereticos damnant The Caluinists would accompt vs Lutherans as their brethren whom notwithstanding they condemne as haereticks And so betwixt them saith Iohn Iezler Litigandi scribendi declamandi disputandi condemnandi excommunicandi inter Lutheranos Caluinistas nullus est finis Ther is no ende of chyding wryting accusing disputing condemning excommunicating betwixt Lutherans and Caluinists Idem ibid. pag. 79. In the yeare 1555. quoth Iezler the K. of Denmarke the stats of Hamburg and Maritimal cities vnder great penaltie forbad any lodging to be permitted to the Sacramentarians For breefe resolution in this matter coÌ„sider according the narration of Vtenhouius being him selfe one among 175. Flemishe Frenche English Scotish and Polonian fugitiues in Queen Maryes dayes vnder the conduct of Lascus superintendent ouer the congregation of strangers in England how first after long tossing on sea and other incommodities of nauigation they came at lengthe to Coldinga in Denmarche Wher haeing exhibited a most lamentable supplication to the King being Lutheran First they could not obtayne any allowance to vse their religion secondly haueing receaued a gift of a 100. crowns and their charges defrayed they could obtayne no aboad for ould or yoÌ„g sick or hole but must haue suddenly in the depth of winter departed yea although some women expected howerly ther tyme of trauayle Ariued at Hassne Ioan. Vtenhouius in sua simplici narratione de instituta ac demum dissipata Belgarum altorumque peregrinorum in Anglia Ecclesia ther also Palladius superintendent informed of their profession notwithstanding their pittifull inplorations of compassion and declarations of the tempestuous weather the sharpnes of could the seas and lands couered with yee the cryes of women in trauayle Childrens whynings and ould mens weaknes yet noe respit nether of a moneth or weeke but only of three dayes would be afoorded to dwell euen without the gates Exclamations and thundring threats of Gods angre against suche hardnes of hart would not auayle but that the master of the shipp was commanded vnder payne of death by noe means or contrarietie of wynds to stay any longer then eight a clock on the third day and neuer after to returne Altogether lyke intertaynment had they at Rostoc by George Riken at VVismar by Henning Lubec by Peter Briccius at Hamburg by VVestphalus being hunted out of their Inns spitted at in streats repulsed with all disdaynfulnes not without as detestable crueltie in the Lutherans as publick and manifest detestation of their profession who were soe hatefully eschued The most apparent demonstration of their eternal discords is that partly to auoyd this heynouse imputation of being thus deuided partly by authoritie of princes the kings of Denmarke Sweuland Norwey the Duks of Saxonie Lunebourg Pruss Brunswick Vide Bellum 5. Euangelij cum Ministromachia Intremangerie librum nullus nemo Vlenbergij causas c. VVitemberge Deuxponts the Marquis of Brandenbourg Lansgraue Hessen the Earls of Palatinat Mansfeld Aâ—halt c. Being desirouse to see some setled forme of beleefe mutualy agreed vpon they coÌ„manded sondry and diuers tyms these reformers to assemble into a Synod or CoÌ„gregation and by all means possible to ioyne in a fraternal attonement So then they mett at Souabach Smalcald
and others to accompt their wrytings but meere philopatrial forgeries and to haue taken our defense generaly against them The rule then a forspoken is vniuersal that whersoeuer any Scot is mentioned befor the forsayd tyme S. Bernardus in v. S. Malachie Decretal de dolo contumacia cap. cum olim Caesarius lib. 12. c. 38. Fr. Malachias Mino rita de veneno peccatum cap. xi he could be noe other then an Irishman When many also long after be so called without other diuersitie the doubt of them to be vncertayne till after the tyme that Irland reiected that name For S. Bernard the ould edition of the Canon law Cesarius Malachias Minorita doe referr the name of Scotand to our Contry 400. yeares after the fatal ruine of the Picts 38. Therfor Albanian Scots doe lose their paynes and credit in repyning that all forsayd Scots weare belonging to Irland S. Bryde or Brigida wil be an Irish Virgin as long as the volumes and wrytings of all Martyrologes of Beda Marianus Sigebertus Isingrenas Capsgrauius S. Bernard Genebrard Baronius and of the histories of S. Patrick S. Ethkin S. Laurence and of hir selfe be vnburned or vnburied S. Columbanus wil be ane Irishman while the monumente of Ionas VValafridus all martyrologes the liues of S. Kilian of S. Rumuld Beda Sigebert Trithemius Vincent Antonin Vsuard Volateran Mermanius Molanus Bosius Baronius VVion Bernard yea Bale or Camden beare any reputation So will S. Fiacre yf Surius Clictouaeus Hareus Gazetus Molanus and ecclesiastical hymnes be of greater reputation then some out-cryed or Horned Hector Thomson or the like without all proofe or probabilitie auerring Bardical fictions Among which a forsayd hymnes it of S. Fiacre contayneth Lucernae nouae specula illustratur Ibernia illa misit Fiacrium Irlands high tower is bright with a new shyning light Clictouenâ— de hymnis Ecclesiasticis it sent Feach man of might And so in lyke maner of all others whether ould or late sacred â—r prophane freÌ„ds or foes domestical or forreiners general or parâ—icular wryters or rules be allowed the former rule is out of all controuersie that howsoeuer any Scots be graunted to haue in â—nnual incursions troubled Britanie in few numbers and vnder â—ubiection of Picts till the Picts weare razed out of being memorie inhabited Britanie yet that they transferred not the Kingdome of Scotland and name of Scots from Irland till and after the forsayd destruction of Picts Thus much without offending any 〈◊〉 for allthough ther be much against preiudicated suppositions yet the reuelation of trueth deserueth thankfull acception of euery one it being a singular benifit to depriue any of errours be declared to the honor of God glorie of his Saincts and confort of my Contrymen Catholicks 39. These premisses considered giue you your selues as now a lawfull impaneled well instructed Iurie your verdict of these wordes of M. Rider in his pretended frendly Caueat to your selues That fayth which can be proued to be taught in Christs tyme M. Rider in the 34. numbre of his Caueat and so reâ—eaued and continued in the primatiue Church for the first fiue hundred yeares after Christs ascension must needs be the true ancient Apostolical and Cathoâ—ick fayth And that other fayth that can not be so proued but base bastard and counterfet Censure I say and award my deere Contrymen whether the fayth of your ancieÌ„t MoÌ„cks Heremits Pilgrims vowed Virgins Prelats Preists or the puritan fayth be most ancient most receaued and continued in the primatiue Church Since that now you vnderstand S. Patrick your Apostle to haue bene a monck and his disciples no lesse and in their profession of confessed singular holines and learning Censure I say agayne whether his owne fayth be not by him selfe confessed to be base bastard and counterfeit not which erecteth Abbayes but subuerteth them not which inricheth ornaments of Gods seruice Churches but which turneth them into breches cushions curteins Not which imployeth plate and iuwels to the vse of Pixes and Chalices but which conuerteth these into swilling bowles Not which renteth cloisters and hospitals but which in riote and licentiousnes consumeth their reuenues l. 7. hist c. 12. 40. To this ende I haue carefully and curiously layd open your owne aÌ„tiquities that by your owne predecessors you might know your professions antiquitie and iudge your owne cause accordingly Sozomenus relateth a prudeÌ„t fact of Theodose Emperor who perceauing heresies plentifully to aryse he summoned their cheefe patrons They being assembled he demanded what thinke you my masters our first teachers of Christianitie did they hould the trueth or noe were they godly and honest or noe It was avnswered that they held the trueth and were godly Why then quoth he let vs examin your doctrin and theirs your liues and theirs and yf we fynd them conformable you shal be and your doctrin imbraced otherwyse you must be suppressed Therby they weare in dede suppressed You Contrymen Catholicks may demand the same of them and vs. Whom you fynde coÌ„formable to your first teachers them imbrace the others eschue and detest Galat. 1.9 1. Ioan. 2.24 41. Wheras therfor S. Paul aduiseth vs Yf any preach otherwyse then as we haue receaued to hould him accursed S. Ihon what we haue heard from the begyning to walke in the same because many seducers are gone into the world our first preachers and preaching being manifested vnto vs shal we for pelfe and trash of the world for honors for lyfe for death Luc. 9. 11. Mat. 11. Mar 8. Christ saying to vs that yf we be ashamed to confess him befor men that he also wil be ashamed to confess vs befor his heuenly father and angels be either trayned or terrifyed from our ancient professioÌ„ to profess this new as yet not fashioned and vnder the stampe all shapes that hitherto it hath shewed dislyking the forgers them selues and degusting the followers Twelue duble reasons to be constant Catholicks 42. First our ould profession that auerreth all scriptures from Christs tyme accompted Canonical for the profession that dismembreth whole volumes depraueth more reiecteth all that it dislyketh vpon priuat Scripturs and partial iudgment 2. It that imbraceth without exception all articles of the Apostles Crede for it which denyeth Christs discension The Crede of the Apostles the Catholick Church the communion of saincts the forgiuenes of synns 3. It which iustifyeth and obserueth all Apostolical traditions Traditions for it which abhorreth the very name of them 4. It which consenteth to expositions of scripture allowed by all ancient fathers Fathers and Doctors and primatiue Doctors for it which standeth only to selfe vnderstanding 5. It which remayneth in the doctrine of two hondred twelue coÌ„senting Councils Councils for it which neuer had Council or CoÌ„uenticle concordant 6. It which hath sanctifying Sacraments and operaâ—ing saluation for it which hath but simple signes Sacraments sanctifying friuolouse
figurs and senseles shaddowes 7. It which hath a substantial and â—piritual sacrifice and sensible worshiping of God Sacrifice of the lamb of God by a heuenly â—â—blatioÌ„ of the very Sauior of mankynde for it which disclaymeth veritie substance and sustenance of such diuine and immaculat â—amb and his holy institution 8. It which hath Prelats and preists Prelats and preists Hebr. 5.2 Num. 16.3 separated froÌ„ the rest according to Gods sacred worde to offre gifts and sacrifices for offences for it which with Core Dathan and Abiron affirmeth that all the multitude is equaly sanctifyed toward those functions 9. Obedience to Princes It which commendeth and commandeth obedience to Princes and Magistrats not only for policie but also for conscience sake for it which wher it can preuayle trampleth authoritie trubleth dominions denyeth all other tribut then stroakes and canon shott 10. It which practiseth Gods commandements and works of charitie and professeth Gods commandements as easie and delytsome for it which fayth they are impossible and not belonging to Christians 11. It which hath a visible Church vniuersal for tyme and place A Visible Churche conformable first and last inuincible against infidels hereticks yea or deuils for it wich as a Platonical Idea or poetical chimera is forged in the ayre particular dissentiouse perishing 12. It that hath florished in Apostles Euangelists Martyrs Confessor Virgins Communion of saints and is holpen by them for it that derydeth and blasphemeth them and deface their remembrances O tymes ô maners what monstruouse absurdities haue you bred that a Christian mynde should once stand in consultation whether syde to Gods Church or heresies synagogue he should cleaue and adhere 43. But I satisfie my selfe that you are sufficiently informed and acquainted of and in the controuersie betwixt vs and that yf you be not wittingly miscaryed you fynde his freÌ„dly caueat a venimouse kisse from sugred lipps a wolueishe hypocrisie vnder a lambs contenance Gen. 3.5 2. reg 20. 10. Iosue 9. Isa 28. a cruel wound vnder pretext of a charitable medicine a serpentin narration to Adame and Eua a Ioabs salutation to Amasa a Gabaonit to Iosue and the Israelits counterfeting as the Gabaonits did a remot antiquitie and brefly as the prophet sayth one protecting him selfe and putting his hope in an vntrueth God of his infinit goodnes and according the multitude of his miserations inspire you to vnderstand the trueth inflame you to follow it and fortifie you to remaine perseuer in it Amen Your affectionat seruant to command in Crist THE EPISTLE OF THE AVTHOR TO MASTER IOHN RIDER WOrshipful M. Rider You haue this Aunswer yf later then expected yet I assure my selfe sooner then affected So that as an vngratefull guest it preuenteth all wellcome You might haue had it long befor but that your inuitation therof was conformable to the new requesting frends to meales with many capps and verbal â—urtesie but without intertaynment charitie or hospitalitie For you prouoked â—â—e to labour it but debarred me to publish it And noe merueile for you knew â—t to be that it is to wit a hand wryting to Balthazar Mane Thechel Phares Daniel to a licentiouse Iudge conuerting his iniquitie vpon his owne head And that I may not be a tedious reherser of what you feele better then I can expresse a Dauid to Goliath by his owne swoord beheading him and destroying tenn thowsand of his compagnions Not that I impute any woorth â—or weight to my cooperation therin but that the cause it defendeth is so inexpugnable as lyke a firme rock it crusheth them that fall on it and oppresseth them on whom it falleth You might haue bene thought wyse yf you had houlden your peace For men of your sorte hauing a negatiue religion are commonly satisfyed to carpe at our sayings without care to iustifie their owne and but by extremitie to specifie any positiue doctrin that they may haue libertie to change at will But you would be a more venturouse Caualiero then the residue let all the world iudge whether it was for any extraordinarie wysdome or sufficieÌ„cie if you who among thowsands were most vnfit haue professed playne decretal positions repugnant not only to all christianitie but which ordinarily by you is more esteemed to all your owne confraternie or rather because you continualy iarr to your confederated diuersitie So that many of your most iudicious surmisers mistrust that by some promised promotion of papists you had praeiudiced and in a maner betrayed your profession to infamie and derision of sett purpose by so discouering many defectiue articles and enorme absurdities therof which to our owne contryes can not choose but cause à dislyke yf not a loathsomnes and surfet and being notifyed to other contryes which had bene done yf I had not altered my purpose only for better concealing for what friuolous futilities the Catholick fayth in Christ Iesus is exchanged by wryting in our vulgar toung what I first intended to haue written in latin would produce in them ether a disdayne toward vs or deploration against our estate that so many good dispositions and otherwyse deepe capacities are so miserably miscaryed by so base and deceitfull delusions palpablie perceauable euen to winking eyes I assure you no mans death I know had bene vnto me more vnwished before this my awnswer published least it had bene suspected or excepted that I had imposed your owne printed assertions vpon your profession But my synceritie will appeare perspicuously by inserting your booke intirely and concordantly to your Dublinian edition which can not be imagined to haue bene a deede of any other then your selfe You haue great and sundrie causes to be thankfull for this my awnswer First because it displayeth seueral dangerouse errours by which you would haue eternally perished and now by reclayming them yf you please you may escape Secondly that by it the sharper reprehension and refutation of others who would and might more disdaynfully reproue you is perhapp anticipated and hindred Thirdly that for sparing fauor toward you many slips are indulgently dissembled and such as are detected in the most milde style that might possiblie belong to maters of lyke qualitie are prosecuted I cowld calculate others yf I attended deserued gratitude in one of your disposition or education Howsoeuer you will interpret kinde and beneficious offices I will incessantly implore Gods infinit mercie toward you and your complices that he would open your obstinat eyes and mollifie your hardned harts and mitigat his incensed wrath against you wherby you may vnderstand your errours abandon your heresies cease to diuide the Churche and scattre Christs Catholick flock being by so pretious redemption formerly vnited And finaly that being myndfull whence you are fallen you repent and returne to your first workes least your candlestyke be remoued and for want of true light fall into that infidelitie of all Christian religion which in Africk Grece and other places immediatly succeded opinions
one costeth nothing but a dash of a â—nn and trauaile of toung the other requyreth great charges â—reat toyle great aduenture and great tyme. But in particular 〈◊〉 the vvandring matter vvithout vvandring It is the seuenth grosse vntruth that the Pope hath dravven 37. The 7. and 8. vntruth Catholicks to idolatrie It is the 8. vvhich in euery part of the â—ormer diuagation is contayned Some merry compagnions inâ—ended to make you M. Rider ridiculous to the vvorld Euery â—eane howse in Millan and Naples might be a howse competent â—or the mayor of your VVigen Euery Citisen is armed at his â—hoise Euery weapon long at will and pointed sharply Euery such poesie no point might passe for good English but not for â—ny frenche Nether do they speake frenche in those contryes Haue not these men much mynde to discusse a controuersie of â—he real presence that make prefaces so far wyde from it and â—ange rouing to Antiphonaries to prelats liues to whoores to Popes supremacie to the plotts of the K. of Spaine the habiâ—ations and weapons in Naples and Millan His preface being â—t large considered let my preface which he concealed haue liâ—ence to appeare aunswering this challenging letter wherby our â—isputation began â—8 I couet only at this tyme to premonishe the Reader conâ—erning the inscription of this letter S. August to 4. con mendac c. 6. that as S. Augustine sayd of â—uld hereticks Although they beleeue not the Catholick fayth yet they â—o speake as they may be taken to be of our profession euen so our new Euphrateans Iudicum 12.6 they would fayne passe for good Israelits but they can not pronounce Schiboleth that is they can not counterfett the style of Catholick but that they are discouered A FRIENDLY CAVEAT TO IRELANDS CATOLICQVES CONCERNING THE DAVNGEROVS Dreame of Christs corporall presence in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper grounded vpon a letter sent from the Catholicques c. To the reuerend Fathers the holy Iesuits Seminaries and all other Priests that fauour the holy Romane religion within the kingdome of Ireland HVmbly praieth your Fatherly charities Rider F. W. and P. D. with many other professed Catholicques of the holie Romane religion that whereas of late they haue heard some Protestant Preachers confidently affirme and as it seemes vnto our shallow capacities plainly do prooue that these positions here vnder written cannot be proued by anie of you to be ether Apostolicall or Catholicque by canonical Scripture or the auncient Fathers of the Church which liued and writ within the compasse of the first fiue hundred yeares after Christs ascension which assertion of theirs hath bred in â—our suppliaÌ„ts great doubts touching the trueth of the same vnlesse your fatherly â—ccustomed charities be extended presently to satisfie our consciences in the same â—y the holy written word of God such Fathers of the Church as aforesaid which being so directly and plainely proued by you as aforesaid may be a speedie meanes to conuert many Protestants to our profession Otherwise if these points â—annot be so proued by you vpon whose learned resolution we greatly relie then â—ot onely we but many thousands more in this kingdome of Ireland can hold â—hese points to be neither Apostolicall or Catholicque And thus hauing shewed â—â—me of our doubts we desire your fatherly resolutions as you tender the credit â—f our religion the conuincing of the Protestants and the satisfying of our poore â—onsciences And thus crauing your spedie learned and fatherly answeres in writing at or before the first of Februarie next with a perfect quotation of both â—cripture and Fathers themselues not recited or repeated by others for our better â—â—struction and the aduersaries spedier stronger confutation we coÌ„mend your â—ersons and studies to Gods blessed direction and protection Positions That Transubstantiation or the corporall presence of Christs bodie and bloud in the Sacrament was neuer taught by the auncient fathers that euer writ in the first fiue hundred years after Christs ascention but a spirituall presence onely to the faithfull beleuers 2 That the Church of God had not their seruice in an vnknowne tongue but in suâ—â— language as euery perticuler Church vnderstood 3 Thirdly that Purgatorie and prayers for the dead were not then knowne in God Church 4 Fourthly that images praying to Saints were then neither taught by theâ— Fathers nor receiued of the Catholicque Church 5 Fiftly that the Masse which now the Church of Rome vseth was not then known to the Church 6 Sixtly that there ought not to bee one supreame Bishop ouer all the world and the Bishop to be the Pope of Rome and that the said Pope hath not vniuersall iurisdiction ouer all Princes and their subiects in all causes Temporall and Ecclesiasticall The Protestant Preachers affirme vnles you prooue the premisses by canonical Scripture they cannot be Apostolicall there fore bind not the conscience of anie And if they cannot bee proued by the said Fathers then they be neither auncienâ— nor Catholike And therefore to be reiected as mens inuentions Gatho Priests PRouoked to prooue either by Scriptures or Fathers which liued within the comâ—â—â—â— of fiue hundred yeares after Christs ascention that the Primitiue Church and Catholicques of this time are of consent touching these Articles 1 That Christ is really in the blessed Sacrament 2 That scriptures should not be perused by the vulgar 3 That praier for the dead and Purgatorie was beleeued 4 That images were worshipped and praiers made to Saints 5 That Masse was allowed 6 That the supremacie of the Pope was acknowledged Rider Maister W. N. GEntlemen the cause of this your prouokement was a quiet and milde conference vpon these positions with an honorable Gentleman and a speciall good friend of yours concerning religion wherein he confidently affirmed that the Iesuits ond Romane Priests of this kingdome were able to prooue by Scriptures and Fathers these Positions to be Apostolicall Catholicque And that the Church of Rome add the Romane Catholicques in Ireland now hold nothing touching the same but what the holy Scriptures and primitiue Fathers held within the first fiue hundred yeares after Christs ascention Now yf you in this conference for your part haue made such proofe by the holy canonicall Scriptures and such Doctors of the Church as aforesaid I haue promised to become a Romane Catholicque if you haue failed in your proofe which I am assured you haue done he likewise before worshipfull witnesses hath giuen his hand to renounce this your new doctrine of the church of Rome and become a professor of the gospel of Christ This was the occasion and maner of your prouokement which I hope the best minded will not mistake nor you misconter being onelie prouoked by your friend 1. Pet. 3.15 yea and faith if you refuse not Saint Peters counsell to be readie alwais to giue an answere to anie man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you The
contrariewyse they who defended by woorks and writings the same doctrin and profession of late Catholicks and therfor are by them honoured and inuoked as saincts should be fauourers and furtheres of Protestantcy and disprouers and enemies of Papistrie Can any sodring or hammering conioyne or cupple these vnsutable doctrins together Mat. 9.16 Mar. 2.22 Therfor M. Rider it can not be denyed but your new patch hath torne your owld cloake and your new wyne hath burst your owld vessels And to all iudgements not willfully peruers is reuealed that neuer cowld any professioÌ„ by the defenders be more betrayed then protestantcy by M. Rider challengeing to be a Catholick and appealing for trial to Vincent Lyrinensis most opposit therto impugning supremacie of the Pope appealing to S. Bernard so cheefe a maintayner therof and clayming to be of the first ancieÌ„t Church and haue it so repugnant to him leauing in the meane tyme his faith and profession discouered by this means to be base bastard and counterfet Yea leauing by occasion of his vnaduised assertioÌ„ open to all mens eyes that owld and new testament Apostles and doctors are disagreeing from protestantcie and that all papistical doctrin euen in particular was sustayned by them and altogether condemned by them Wherfor truly sayd S. Augustin Improbatie haereticorum facit eminere quid ecclesia tua sentiat quid habet sana doctrina Aug. l. 7. Confess c. 19. The impugning of hereticks doth make manifest what thy Church with continual conformitie and correspondence to it selfe houldeth and true doctrin teacheth 35. But first heere you wrong your selfe much your cause more Rider but the simple â—â—ple most of all in altering the state of the question for our controuersie is of 〈◊〉 manner of Christs presence in the Sacrament The Catholicque Priests subtilly alter the state of the question whether he be there corporallie 〈◊〉 â—pirituallie And you no doubt in your conscience knowing it impossible to â—â—oue your carnall presence alter the question verie deceitfully from the manâ—â— to the matter That Christ is really in the blessed SacrameÌ„t A thing neuer denied â—s nor euer in question betwixt Protestant and Papist for both you and we â—d Christs reall presence in the Sacrament but you carnallie and locallie we miâ—â—allie and spiritually you by Transubstantiation we in the commanded and â—full administration But here you forget your grounds of diuinitie rules of Logicke in making 〈◊〉 opposition betwixt spirituall receiuing and reall receiuing opposing them as â—â—â—traries whereas the opposition is not betwixt spirituall and reall but betwixt â—â—â—porall and spiritualll for spirituall receiuing by faith is reall receiuing and â—â—â—porall receiuing by the mouth is also reall receiuing So that the Scriptures and â—â—â—ers that here you alleadge bee altogither impertinent to prooue your carnall â—â—â—ence of Christ and his new conception of bread not of the blessed Virgin by â—â—â—fulll Priest not by the holy Ghost For Christ willing I will make it plaine â—o you that you haue shewed little diuinitie and concealed much learning in 〈◊〉 onely hudled vp a number of texts of Scriptures and Testimonies of Fathers 〈◊〉 of Eckius Common-places and otherlike Enchiridions and neuer read the â—â—â—ers themselues which at first was requested And thus trusting other mens â—â—orts and not your owne eyes you haue wrongd your self weakned your cause 〈◊〉 abused the simple For if you had diligently read and throughly weighed these â—â—iptures and Fathers you might haue seene and knowne that these confute your â—â—onious opinons and confirme them not But this you should haue here prooued for the Catholicques satisfaction in â—â—ich you haue altogither failed That after the Priest hath spoken ouer and to the â—â—ead and Wine Hoc est corpus meum and vsed powrefull words ouer it and them Rhem test 1. Cor. 11. Sect. 9. â—â—ich you call your consecratioÌ„ that presentlie the substances of Bread and Wine â—e gone not one crumme or drop remaining but wholly transubstantiated tranâ—â—â—tured and chaunged into the verie reall naturall Rhe. Test. math 26. Sect. 4. and substantiall bodie and â—â—oud of Christ which was borne of the Virgin Marie and nailed on the crosse â—â—d is now in heauen and yet in the Sacrament whole aliue and immortall and â—â—at this bodie of Christ must bee receiued with our corporall mouth and locally â—â—scend into our corporall stomackes Which bodie so made by the Priest is ofâ—â—ed by the Priest to God the father as a propitiatorie merciful and redeeming â—â—â—rifice by which the Priest applieth as hee saith the generall vertues of Christs â—â—ssion to euery perticuler mans necessitie either quicke or dead for matters temâ—â—rall or graces spirituall for whom and when he listeth and for what hee pleaseth â—ur carnall presence shall bee first handled The second point which is your proâ—atorie sacrifice shall bee handled in the title of the Masse This is your Romane 〈◊〉 learning which you should haue prooued but how your owne proofes being â—â—â—ly examined disprooue you let the learned iudge But now to your first proofe 〈◊〉 of the sixt of Iohn to prooue your opinion touching the first position 〈◊〉 6. â—ers 51. The bread which I will giue is my flesh c. Catholicque Priests 〈◊〉 6. â—ers 51. Vnlesse you eate the flesh of the Sonne of man and drinke his bloud you shal haue no life in you 〈◊〉 6. â—ers 55. My flesh is meat truly and my bloud is c. VVhether we haue changed the state of the Question or not And whether the real presence was euer denyed by Protestants whether Protestants doe not falsely clayme the tearme Spiritual And whether all the tearmes of their supper be not redeemed from them Fitzimon 35. COncerning the first demand I hauing conceaued according to Philosophie and reason that corporal and real were not different otherwyse then by only conceit I also supposed it was all one to affirme Christ to be realy present and corporaly according as is supposed by all other wryters of what profession soeuer they be This by M. Rider is called à wrong and deceit Next he saith The real presence was neuer denyed by protestants nor in controuersie betwixt Protestant and Papist What thinke you Gentlemen whether was the name of Catholicks by verdict of Vincentius disproofe of supremacie by verdict of the primatiue Fathers the forged consent of the ancient church fiue hundred yeares after Christ to Protestantcie or this resolut affirmation that the real presence was neuer denyed or in controuersie more full of shamelesnes and inconsideration I need not to lingre in making this 9. The 9. 10. vntrueth and 10. vntrueth euen to ProtestaÌ„ts them selues notoriouse yea and odiouse Fox Acts and Monuments pag. 1687 First Ihon Fox saith of one of his martyrs Ihon Lomas not to haue beleeued realitie because he fownd it not written And D. Perne Fox page 1257. sayd I deny not his presence but his real and corporal presence Shewing
another Patron when one coueted to choose S. Peter another S. Paul c. At leingth by aduise of one of best iudgement they elected the B. Trinitie for theire Patron saying Yf the king for other respects wowld also degrade or depose S. Peter and Paul yet yf any would maintayne their state against him none cowld more forcibly then the B. Trinitie In the 9. number of this examination But alas how in this examination in diuers articles is the very sayd diuine Trinitie deryded blasphemed and detested In Christ Iesus is not his birthe and sacred Mother his merits his wysdome his dutie to his Father his whole passion his promises his miracles In the first 24. nuÌ„bre in the 8 9. 10 11. 12. 13. 14. 15. 16 17 18 of this â—â—amination Of the holy ghost exam n. 18. his resurrection ascension his diuinitie his sowle his body his lyfe his deathe no lesse then apparently contemned and altogether drawen into distrust Of the holy Ghost for his deuinitie eternitie coequalitie of his operation in inspyring the holy Apostles in conseruing and preseruing the Churche in sanctification by Sacraments of his being good and not the autheur of euil In the 16. and 20. numb of this examination of his authoritie beyond the written woord and the lyke how cowld he more abhominably be misbeleeued then by thes Mates Of heauen and hell of the sowls immortalitie of any trueth hitherto in Christian beleefe what more disdaynfull dowbts exceptions or falsifications then are produced by their palpable speeches cowld euen by sathan him selfe be vomited And whiche is worthye of principal deploration they who haue thus transformed God into a deuil making him authoure of all euil they who haue defyed and denied Christs dignitie lyfe death and all his merits they who haue thus impugned the holy Ghost they who from one God and three persons haue to their power wreasted all omnipotencie wysdome and veritie Exam. numb 10. Vide in principio an 21. seq Exa 18. 19 numb Exam. numb 1. 4. 7. 18. and befor n. 38. they who haue misdoubted Churche ane Saincts heauen and earthe lyfe of bodyes and sowls these men I say confessing their perswasions receaued by dreams and deuils professing the infidelitie and impyetie insueing therby acknowledging their shame and repentance of their owne doctrin lyuing and dying detestably by their owne open declarations yet that they haue had and as yet haue so many so otherwyse plausible in their natural dispositions so desperatly and lamentably remayning in the pernitiouse courses by such begun For my part Calu. in 1. Cor. cap. 4. v. 19. I committ their amendment to Gods great mercie perclosing this examination to Caluin and all late reformers in Caluins owne woords Your gospell of whiche yow vawnt so excessiuely wher consisteth it for the most parte but in the tong Calu. in c. 14. Ioan. VVher is the renouation of lyfe wher is effectual spiritualitie Experience doth teache that yow are altogether departed from God infected and repleanished with his hate and that yow obscure the light by your peruers inuentions Calu. in cap. 21. Ioan. whiche yow haue forged in your owne propre fantasies 23. Our first 71. numb What articles of the Creed my Aduersarye affirmed were ouer-throwen by our opinion are n. 71. testifyed rather to be muche confirmed therby And yf we were not assured therof we wowld perhapps haue excepted against or suppressed the symbole of the Apostles as Sectaries haue done ether generaly by disalowing all vnwritten traditions suche as is the creed or paricularly by disproueing many articles therof according their example of Christs discension into hell of the Catholick Churche of the communion of Saincts forgiuing of Synns c but our auerring the whole creed and their excepting against it doth shew vs and not them to be of consenting faythe with the autheurs of this beleefe 72. See now the fruits of your fained transubstansiation not full foure hundred yeares olde and yet forsooth you teach it is Apostoliall and Catholike whereas it lackes one thousand and two hundred yeares of that age But he that list to see the shifts and wranglings of your Schoolmen to vphold Lib. 4. sent fol. 257. this rotten Romish heresie InnoceÌ„tius 3. de sacro Altaris mysterio lib. cap. 20. per totum Distinct de coÌ„secr distinct 2. canon 1. pag. 429. let him read Guillermus Innocentius the third a Pope parent and patrone of this fable the first Canon of the second distinction where you shall finde in the Glosse there variae sunt opiniones VVhether Transubstantiation be but 400. yeares owld Fitzsimon The 75. vntruth S. Anselm in ep de Corpore Domini 73. THe numbring vp of the 75. grosse vntrueth at our first recowntre S. Anselme he a Sainct an Archbishop and an English man against his contry man challengeth to him selfe saying Panis substantiam post Dominici corporis consecrationem in altari superesse semper abhorruit pietas Christiana nuperue damnauit in Berengario Turonensi eiusue sequacibus The substance of bread to remayne on the altar after the consecration of our Lords body Christian pietie hathe euer abhorred and lately condemned in Berengarius of Tours and his followers Here is transubstantion and no bread remayning aboue fiue hondred yeares acknowledged Here is assured that Christian pietie not only then but before and euer did abhorr to beleeue the contrary Here is certifyed that Berengarius and his Complices for otherwyse surmising were condemned the yeare 1070. after Christ Therfor it must by thes woords be vnchristian impietie ether to howld your opinion or to affirme Innocent the third liuing aboue a 150. yeares after to haue bene first autheure of our opoinion Lanfranc con Berengar de Sacramento Corporis Sanguinis Domini O how much might I alleadge owt of holy Lanfrancus another Archbishop of Canterburie and one of the first and cheefest writers against Berengarius yf I affected prolixitie and declined not tediousnes One only sentence of his I will ingrosse in liew of all others Reliquum est fidem sanctae Ecclesiae compendiose exponamus Credimus terrenas substantias quae in mensa Dominica per sacerdotale ministerium diuinitus sanctificantur ineffabiliter incomprehensibiliter mirabiliter operante superna potentia coÌ„uertiin essentiam corporis Dominici reseruatis impariuÌ„ rerum speciebus quibusdam alijs qualitatibus ne percipientes cruda cruenta horrerent Et vt credentes fidei preimia ampliora perciperent Hanc fidem tenuit à priscis temporibus nunc tenet ecclesia quae totum disusaper orbem Catholica nominatur It resteth that we expound in briefe the faith of holy Church VVe beleeue the earthly substances which in our Lordes table by the Priests ministerie are diuinly sanctified vnspeakablie incomprehensibily heauenly power wonderfully working to be changed into the substance of our Lordes body the species of vnlike thinges preserued and
true Saluioure of our sowls so also was not Christ And as Saul is called by Dauid Christus Domini the anoynted of our Lord 1. Reg. 24.7 Luc. 2.26 euen as our Saluiour is tearmed by S. Luke they must haue one ende one sence one literalitie and by M. Riders consequence th' one be no better the th' other But you may craue what meaneth this late coequaling the owld testament and new That I may rightly awnswer to this demand I must first breefly shew that it is the drift of late reformations to bring in this equalitie as appeareth by thes woords of Ochinus Ochin lib. 2 dial 21. Pag. 154 155. 156. 157. 288. 289. Cum sit vna Ecclesia vna fides proinde non debemus plura credere quam crediderunt sancti federis antiqui Perfectam quoque eandem suisse Ecclesiam vt Christi ita Moisis c. wheras ther is but one Church one faythe therfor we owght not to beleeue more then the Saincts of the owld testament beleeued as perfect and the same is the Church of Christ and of Moises This being the fundation Zuinglius frameth this pyle thervpon Yf in the owld testament Zuingl to 2. vbi de baptismo fol. 59. sayth he the carnal and external Sacraments cowld not bring any puritie or cleanes to sinfull and defyled consciences how much less can such Sacraments do vs any profit in Christ in the new testament wher only the Spirit giueth lyfe What frame dothe Ochinus him selfe build vpon his owne fundation Ochin loc cit pag. 157. Illos autem non credidisse Trinitatem non personas coequales consubstantiales aeternas c but they of the owld testament did not beleeue the trinitie coequalitie of persons consubstantialitie eternitie c. Ergo by the first inference adieu all Sacraments of Christ for any profit and bringing any puritie to sinfull persons By the second inference we are not bownd to beleeue any substance of the new testament of Christs birthe his miracles his and the holie Ghosts diuinitie Trinitie c. because forsooth Ochin loc cit pag. 154. 155. 156. 157. alioqui essemus deteriori quam ipsi conditione qui ad plura quam illi credenda obstringeremur we should be of inferior condition to them of the owld testament being bownd to beleeue more then they Here is the scope here is the centre declared of thes instructions to equal bothe testaments and after to condemne the new by the inutilitie of the owld and that by many testimonies of Scripture as when S. Paul sayth Hebr. 7. the former commandement to be reprobated propter infirmitatem eius inutilitatem for the infirmitie therof and inutilitie Now say they the new commandement is no better the Sacraments therof noe more proffitable the sence ende and literalitie of bothe is from one authoure and of equal estimation therfor let vs renownce Christianitie and all owld and new testament and become Atheists and Mahumetists Galat. 4. the owld law being but infirma egena elementa weake and as they translat beggerly ordonances consequently the new which is equal therto no better I lament some tymes to behowld great and iudiciouse witts imployed now confuting one point of sectarie impietie now another wheras yf they had principaly saue other mens iudgment reuealed the drift of thes reformations to be a stidiouse imployment to deforme by degrees all vertue and religion ther would many more reclamations although they be dayly reuoked in commendable numbers insue Now as S. Ireneus Iren. l. 1. c. 35. Hieron ep ad Cresiphontem and S. Hierome learnedly obserued Aduersus eos victoria est sententiae eorum manifestatio sententias eorum prodidisse superasse est Patet prima fronte blasphemia c. Victorie against them is the manifestation of their professions to produce their sentences is to confute them Blasphemie is discouered at first view Their sentences euen against the roote and piller of religion and Christianitie being detected ther will many noble witts and mynds of our contry I dowbt not disdaine longer all consociation with such blasphemers Lastly was it not a ricidulouse comparison of Christs woords in this institution with the woords of circumcision circumcision not being so much as a figure of this Sacrament Gen. 17. v. 11. but only of baptisme the next woords euidently and expressly declaring Vide num 78. Ioan. 6. 1. Cor. 11. vt sit in signum faederis inter me vos that it be a signe of the couenant betwixt me and you wheras contrary wyse the woords of this institution befor after do auerr it not to be any signe but the fleashe to be meat indeed the body to be that which was to be deliuered for mankyng Was it not as ridiculouse to meruaile ther was no transubstantiation of the forskynn into Gods couenant God declaring it as I sayd to be only a signe and a couenant not being a substance into which any thing cowld be transubstantiated was it not as ridiculous to leape from circumcision to the paschal lambe succeding many hondred yeares after and from thence to halfe the blood of twelue calues wherwith Moyses sprinckled the Israelits and hauing cluttred them together as one mater for their bare consonance or resemblance in sownd with the woords of Christs institution to make them equiualent in sence ende and proprietie with this B. Sacrament But as I haue shewed in the 68. 77. 78. numbers this debasing and disgraceing therof prooceedeth from their hate of Christs express woords this is my bodie which as their owne brethren obserue Ioan. Schut l. 50. causarum cap. 13. they do so hate that they can not abyde ether to see or heare them at least according their true signification Wherto belongeth thes speeches of Luther willing to haue impugâ—â—â—d the sayd puissant woords Luther tom 7. VVittem fol. 502. which sayth he in examining and deâ—â—â—ing I tooke merueylous payns and strayned euery vayne of body and sowle to haue auoyded For probe perspiciebam hac repapatui cum primis me valde incommodare posse I did well obserue therby I cowld notably haue interested Papacie But I fynde my selfe taken fast and that ther is no way to escape For textus euangelij nimium apertus est potens the text of the gospel is too to cleere and violent By this is demonstrated that good will wanted not in Luther to haue conceaued with the Sacramentaries but sayth he thes woords this is my body cannot easely be shaken much lesse ouerthrowen by woords and glosses deuysed by giddy brayns Luther ibid. I suppose this gall and confusion to be such to M. Rider that I will not here also collect any vntruethes further to netle him althowgh euery one may iudge by the premisses whether ther be not plenty affoorded It sufficeth in general and particular to haue discouered that the sence ende and literalitie or dignitie of
Besyd which els where he sayth They wil say any thing boast of any thing confidently affirme any thing but proue nothing vnlesse it be by friuolous bragging of the most cleere trueth in which Finem modum nullum faciunt they obserue no meane or ende Nemo eorum obtestationibus iactationibus quicquam credat Nam eos mentiri dupliciter mentiri certissimum est Let noe man sayth he beleeue their protestations and braggs for it is certaine that they lye and lye againe Secondly for answer I say the being of Luther a monck long before not to be a lawfull pretext among protestants to auoyde all opinions of his nor his request to haue pittie toward his quondam being a monck to be transferred from what particular point he in that place applyed it vnto for otherwyse nothing he sayd should be approued by any protestants Martyn Taburnus contra profuges Vitembergicos Caluinistes Luth tom 7. VVittemb fol. 502. tom 8. Ienâ— Germanico fol. 174. Confess Tygur trac 3. fol. 108. It therfor that by noe studye conioyning therto ardent inuocation of God as him to haue done Martin Taburnus s ayth nor by any other means although he carefully inquyred all occasions to harme the Pope therby could otherwyse seeme to him but an heresie euen then when he had as he sayth him selfe one foote in his graue how can the dislyking of this opinion be imputed to his some tyme being a Monck I sayth he wil carye this testimonie and this glorie to the tribunal seat of Christ my saluioure that I haue with all ernestnes condemned these fanatical men and enemyes of the Sacrament in what place soeuer they be vnder the sunne c. And agayne Luth. in epist. ad Iacob ecclesiae Bremen Doctorem an 1546. Mihi omnium infelicissimo satis est vna ista beatitudo Beatus vir qui non abijt in confilio Sacramentariorum To me the most vnhappie that the blessednes is sufficient Blessed is he that hath not gone in the Consil of the Sacramentarians And agayne Idem libel con Sacramentarios Hereticos serio censemus alienos ab Ecclesia Dei esse Zuinglianos Sacramentarios omnes qui negant Christi corpus sanguinem ore carnali sumi in venerando Eucharistiae Sacramento we accompt in great earnestnes hereticks and strangers to the Church of God all Zuinglians and Sacramentarians who denye Christs body and blood in the venerable Sacrament of the Eucharist to be receaued with a corporal mowthe This he affirmeth whom all the learned Protestants that euer were so much extolled yea his very aduersaries To Caluin Calu. de libro arbitr con Pighâ—um l. 1. pag. 192. Beza in Iconibus Illyricus in c. 14. Apoc Amsdorf in 1. Tom. Luth. in prefat Alber. con Carolostad l. 7. B. D. 8. Cyriacus con Steph. Agric. fol. 6. A Iuel def Apol. par 4. c. 4. n. 2. Fox in calendario VVhitak con Campian pag. 191. The 151. vntruth he is an Elias out of whose mowth God thundred his trueth which Alberus in lyke woords confirmeth To Beza He is the principal instrument of Christianitie in Germanie To Illyricus he is the Angel fleeing through the midst of heauen and hauing the eternall gospell of whom is mention in Apoc. the 14. To Mathesius he is the supreame father of the Church To Amisdorfe he who neuer had his lyke in the Christian world To Alberus a very Paul To him and Illyricus againe A second Elias and one sufficient alone to appease Gods wrathe To Iuel Melancthon Ionas Pomeran Whytaker and Fox he is the light of the world a Sainct the Father of trueth Quicquid agit mundus Luther vult esse secundus VVhat euer shift be fownd Luther wil be secounde and much more reported in our first 20. number What is M. Rider compared with all these nay with the meanest of these The next aunswer to Luther is that he entred into another errour of companation which by the 151. vntrueth he sayth Luther had sucked out of the Popes owne breast For first there is noe such Chapter as he citeth for proofe in al the decretals Secondly had there bene any errour mentioned in the decretals to haue bene by the Popes condemned and not by any Pope or Papist defended is it not a Riderian and ridiculous sequel that such had bene the Popes Doctrin and sucked out of the Pops owne breast because the Pope mentioneth it by way of abhominable doctrin by him condemned As for Luthers other errors let his disciples make apologies for them against M. Rider And for his being against vs we howld it a great honor But what is that to yow whose ringleader he was Yf he did not perseuer in errour as yow say how can it be but his last and lowdest condemnation of your doctrin doth not make such doctrin to be confessed an errour and not erroneusly condemned by Luther Luther by your confession remayning in no error and condemning and detesting it as both erreneous and heretical How our opinion the Sacramentarian opinion and Luthers opinion are reported Fitzsimon The 152. vntruth 121. IN the very first relation of our doctrin issueth out the 152. vntrueth Doe we say besyd bread and wyne Christ to be in the B. Sacrament Or rather without bread and wyne you beare vs witnes your selfe befor your replye to the 6. of S. Ihon that we teache all bread and wyne to be transubstantiated therby you register now against your selfe this sayd vntrueth In the same first aunswer The 153. vntruth you adioyne the 153. vntrueth that you teache the body and blood of Christ to be in the supper Witnes your owne woords at the 103. number the Sacrament and Christs body to differr as much as the lamb and the passouer c. which had no more vnion then the wyne that is sould and the iuye garland that is a signe of the sale therof Ioyne also these two I pray you together that Christ is not giuen but in his outward signe and yet that the body and blood in the supper is geuen not only by signe but as you say realy and truely Giuen and not giuen only in signe and not only in signe but also in substance Is not this fast and loose passe and repasse off and on pro and contra with and against Is not this a pretie ridle In your third answer to the second question bursteth foorth the 153. vntrueth For you do not say nor can say Spiritualy vnlesse you depart from your first martyrs to whom you haue obliged your selfe to consent and from Musculus As appeareth in the 108. number Also our aunswer is not intierly deliuered For we affirme not only corporaly but also spiritualy In your third question and third aunswer is contayned first the 154. vntrueth The 154. 155. 156. vntruth that Scripturs and Fathers say with you Secondly the 155. vntrueth that Christ in this institution made any
not against his opinion how did he pronounce sentence against Ihon Lambert and Anne Askew principally for being of his opinion Fox confesseth the cheefe condemners of them to haue bene Crammer and Cromwell Perhaps he will thinke to escape with a turne of a Fox saying that to haue bene compassed by the pestiferous and crafty counsell and stratagems of Bishop Gardener that by the gospellers them selues the gospellers should be condemned Good ghospellers they must haue bene in the meane time But I am now so vpon the chase as I can not so lightly loose my game Why then in King Edwards dayes the forsaid Bishop as he sayth being cast into the tower did the sayd Cranmer condemne Ioan of Kent What Fox or woolfe can auoyd that but that Cranmer was therby knowen no frend euen then to any of the forsayd Anne Askews disciples I will not in vayne haue bene some tyme of your profession and hauing touched it and bene defyled with the pitch therof for which offense I dayly and most humbly craue pardon of my deere and soueraigne Lord and Saluioure but that of the same pitch I will light a toarche to them that are in darknes and in the shaddowe of death to direct their feete into the way of peace Let vs therfor pursue more of this kynde to haue the true portraicture of M. Rider placed befor all mens eyes Catho Priest Magdeburg in Epi. ad Eliz. Angliae Reg. Amongst factions of opinions some latelie take away the bodie and bloud of Christ touching his reall presence contrarie to the most plaine most euident and puissant words of Christ. Rider 124. GEntlemen this concerneth not vs it may fitter be inuerted vpon your selues for we denie not Christs spirituall presence taught in the Scriptures and receiued in Christs Primitiue Church but we denie your imagined carnall presence neuer recorded in Gods booke nor beleeued of auncient father nor euer knowne to Christs spouse the Primitiue Church as you haue hearde trulie prooued But this is your great fault vsuallie practised that whether in Scriptures or Fathers you heare of Christs bodie and bloud and his presence or reall presence you imagine presently without further examination that it is your carnall presence which thing is growne vp with you from a priuate errour to a publike heresie Catho Priest Fox in Martirol Kemnitius in Exā Conc. Trid. cenira tan de Eucharistia Tyndall Frith Banes Cranmer left it as a thing indifferent to beleeue the reall presence So that the adoration saith Frith be taken away because there then remaineth no poison whereof anie ought to be afraid of Yet Kemnitius vpon the assurance of the reall presence approoueth the custome of the Church in adoring Christ in the Sacrament by the authoritie of Saint Augustine and S. Ambrose in Psal 98. Eusebius Emissenus c. Saint Gregorie Nazianzen saith it is impietie to doe the contrarie So that the brood being of such agreement we haue the lesse occasion to embusie our braines to confute them GEntlemen by peeces you repeat some of their words not knowing at it seemeth the occasion and so you vtterlie mistake the sence which was this These godlie Martirs perceiuing the flame of persecution to burne so fast and mount so high as it was neither bounded in measure nor mercie and onelie for a new vpstart opinion hauing no warrant from Gods word They in a Christian brotherlie discretion exhorted the learned bretheren onelie to preach that necessarie Article of our free iustification by faith in the personall merits of Christ And touching the Lords Supper to teach to the people the right vse of the same yet not to meddle with the manner of the presence for feare of daunger if not death but leaue it as a thing indifferent till the matter in a time of peace might be reasoned at large on both parties by the learned Prouided euer that poisonfull adoration be taken away The premisses considered what can yee now gather that prooueth with you or disprooueth vs. Nay here is nothing but against you altogither For if you had dealt trulie with the dead Martirs or the liuing Catholickes these collections and not yours you should from hence haue gathered 1 First these Martirs taught with their breath and sealed with their bloud that your carnall presence and transubstantiated Christ was neither commandement giuen by God nor Article of our faith euer taught in the primitiue Church but a late inuented opinion deuised by man 2 Secondlie they wished the bretheren considering it was but mans inuention and neuer recorded in gods booke that therefore they should not hazard the losse of their liues which would tend so much to the preiudice of Christs Church 3 Thirdlie they wished it to be taken for a season as a thing indifferent yet not absolutelie but with these cautions 1 First that adoration or worshipping of the creatures were quite taken away which neuer was done by you and therefore they held it not absolutely indifferent 2 Secondlie till the Church of Christ had peace and rest from your bloudie and butcherly slaughters wherein the matter might be decided not with faggots but scriptures which was not graunted in their daies and therefore you greatlie wrong the dead when you make them speake that thing absolutelie which was limitted by them with conditions Now I appeall to the indifferent Reader whether you desserue not a sharpe reproofe thus to dazell the eies and amaze the minds of the simple Catholickes by violent wresting the writings of the martirs perswading the ignorant they should either dissent in this opinion amongst themselues consent with you or varie from vs. Whereas both they and we now and then consent with Scriptures Fathers and Primitiue Church in vnitie and veritie of doctrine against your dissentions pestiferous errours and open blasphemies Of M. Riders bynding him selfe to Consent with the first protestant Martyrs And of how many and monstruous beleefes he maketh him selfe therby 124. THey and he then and now sayth he consent with Scripturs Fitzsimon Fathers and Primatiue Church in vnitie and veritie of Doctrin against our dissentions pestiferous errours and open blasphemies Perhaps before I part I will make him beshrew the fingers of him that printed this protestation although I know Stow in Chron. anno 1549. it was not the printers fault Omitting woords let vs repayre to woorks The last named Ioan Knell of Kent shal be first confronted with M. Rider Fox Acts. pag. 398. 571. to see yf he will stand to this woord This Ioan as also did Peter the Germain an other his martyr denyed Christ to haue taken fleash of the B. Virgin M. Riders woords are that he consenteth with protestant Martyrs in vnitie and veritie of all doctrin It must then follow that he denyeth the same Since that I deale against a puritan I will alleadge one of the same sorte William Cowbridge Fox pag. 570. because he affirmed as Fox confesseth no
Christi in illis verbis institutionis hoc facite c. for the true inward and spirituall worship of Christ is comprehended in the words of Christs institution Doe this in rememberance of me Now let the best minded Catholicks see your vniust dealing with both quick and dead pretending that either Chemnitius as you say allowed your outward worship in your Sacrament or that wee iarre amongst our selues touching the same which both bee vntrue For you hold the worship to bee outward hee and we inward you carnall he and we spirituall and brieflie if you will yet read him diligentlie you shall find he vtterlie condemned your carnall presence and your externall worship approuing the one to bee a fable the other blasphemie And thus much for your ignorance touching Martyn Chemnitius whom it semeth you neuer saw but onely tooke him by the eares as Water-beares do their Tankerds Againe you say that Chemnitius vpon the assurance of the real presence approueth the custome of the church in adoring Christ in the Sacrament by the authoritie of Saint Augustine Ambrose in Psal 98. by Eusebius Emissenus Saint Gregorie Naziazen charging as manie as doe the contrarie with impietie to euerie of which thus I aunswere This Psal according to the Hebrew is the 99. Psal and vpon this place S. Augustine writ Aug. in psal 98. as I will alleadge him of your Paris print his words be these Quid de carne Mariae carnem accepit quia in ipsa carne hic ambulauit c. ipsam carnem nobis manducandam ad salutem dedit Nemo autem illam carnem manducat nisi prius adorauerit which tooke flesh of the flesh of Marie and because in that flesh he walked here vpon the earth he gaue to vs that flesh to eat to our saluation for no man eateth that flesh vnlesse first he worship it Now let vs examine this place and see how that fitteth your purpose First the flesh of Christ that Augustine will haue worshipped must be thus conditioned 1 First it must be borne of the virgin Marie but yours was made of bread and therefore not that true flesh of Christ which Augustine speaketh of and so not to be worshipped without ydolatrie 2 Secondlie that flesh of Christ which Augustine will haue vs worship walked visiblie with his Church here vpon earth before Christs ascention And vntill you can approoue vnto vs by canonicall warrant such a Christ in your Sacraments as walked vpon the earth and died on the crosse Augustine will not haue him worshipped which you shall neuer be able to doe during the world 3 Thirdlie that flesh of Christ which Augustine will haue vs to worship was giuen to vs for our saluation which I hope you will say if you say trulie was actuallie reallie and in deed vpon the crosse And in the Sacrament misticallie or by representation as hath been proued out of your owne bookes Thus you wrest that which Augustine spake of the blessed flesh of Christ to your fabulous supposed flesh made by a priest whereby you wickedlie abuse the learned father and deceiue the simple Reader For this flesh of Christ which was conceiued by the holie Ghost and borne of the blessed virgin must be eaten with the spirit adored with the spirit as Augustine there speaketh and neither adored with your externall apish worship nor eaten with your corporall mouth But to speake according to Scriptures and Fathers the verie eating of Christ is the true adoring or worshipping of Christ because as he is eaten so he is adored but he is eaten spirituallie by faith For faith is the chiefest braunch of Gods honour Your next Author is Ambrose vpon the 98. Psal which you imagiue proueth your externall worship of Christ in the Sacrament 125. I ame glad that Kemnitius is auowed to be a protestant Fitzsimon to M. Riders lyking for therby we may perhaps haue some desyred sporte The reprehension of our Spelling Kemnitius for Chemnitius for Crantzius as a litle after appeareth might haue bene spared Yf M. Rider by Gods good prouidence had not bene reprobated to confusion in all maters and sciences wherof he hath made any mention Of his ignorance in Scripture in Fathers in Histories in Orthographie in Greeke in Frenche in Latin in English now in Spelling against my will he would needs conuict him selfe ignorant First then I answer that K. in greeke is all one and C. in Latin and therfor might indifferently be taken Secondly that German names such as are Kemnitius and Crantzius are written indifferently by ether C. or K. that these two forsayd names euen by the authours them selues are more written in our maner then according to M. Riders conceit which also is obserued in Bellarmine Stapleton and all other famous Controuertists Let him repayre but to the Colledge and inquyre for the Metropole of Crantzius and finding it as I had written after in all his lyfe let him abstayne from such fanatical exceptions For yf they were auayleable that who misspelled were ignorant in the mater how cowld M. Rider know how and when to be silent not knowing to wryte silence but scilence how could he professe him selfe a scholer wryting the name amisse scholler How could he tell what circumcision was he wryting it circumscision which neuer scholer would haue done that after would obiect lesse misspelling to another In what wysdome or learning or latin did he learne to wryte lattin for latin intollerable for intolerable subtilly for subtilie c. But of his palpable ignorance in latin after Well now to accompagnie him forward Of Kemnitius he sayth it is vntrue that he iarreth with M. Rider or contrary wyse Which yf it be not reuoked speedely M. Rider must recant affirme with Kemnitius that the opinion against the real presence is Blasphema impia damnata Kemnitius in sua epistola ad Ioan. Georgium Marchion Brandeburg 24. Ioā 1584. Extat in Incendio Caluinistico Kemnit 2. par exam Conc. Trid. sess 13. c. 5. blasphemous impious condemned Secondly Kemnitius sayth Nullam esse qui dubitet an Christi corpus in coena sit adorandum nisi qui cum Sacramentarijs aut neget aut dubitet in Cena verè Christum esse presentem Ther is none that doubteth the body of Christ to be adored in the supper but he who with the Sacramentarians to whom Kemnitius is diametricaly opposit denyeth or distrusteth that Christ is in the Sacrament Wherunto what thinke you may M. Rider replye Forsooth that Kemnitius alloweth only the internal adoration Which is an vntrue and a seely excuse For is not the adulterie of the mynde as vnlawfull as it of the woorke Yes truely yf Christ be true or the common doctrin of Diuins and Philosophers that the external act addeth nothing to the malice of the internal act although by other circumstances it may be conioyned with more offenses in being external then yf it were only internal Wherfor it had bene
thinke that the man to receaue is not only spiritual but also corporall and therfor that the adoration might be not only spiritual but also corporal Also yf such sequel were forcible no protestants hereafter should bow their corporal knees to the supper or to God him selfe nor putt off their corporall hatts nor hould vp their corporall hands because the adoration can by his saying not be corporal to any spiritual things adored O Riderian reasons how pleasant you are 129. And so to the next witnesse which is Gregorie Naziazen his woords bee these Rider In Epitaphio Gorgoniae sororis suae Inuocabat Christum c. she called vpon Christ that is worshipped on the Altar where the misteries are celebrated I pray you what can you gather out of this to prooue your externall worship of Christ in the Sacrament with cap thumpe and knee Gregorie saieth shee worshipped Christ therfore you will conclude it was your breaden Christ too hastie a conclusion to be true Or doe you thinke she worshipped Christ as inclosed in those misteries Surelie no For Gregorie saith it was in the darke night since approached to the Altar (a) The Pixe was inuented by InnoceÌ„tius 3. 1214 Gregorie Naz. writt Anno 567. Ioh. 4.20 Exod. 3.12 At which time there was neither prieste standinge by the Altar misteries vpon the Altar nor the pixe hanging ouer the Altar and therefore she worshipped Christ that was called vpon at the Altar in the celebration of the misteries not that hee was inclosed vnder the formes of those misteries no more then the mountaine wherein the father 's worshipped was either God substantiallie or that God was inclosed in that mountaine vnder the formes and shapes of the mountaine But the mountaine was the place where God was worshipped And so the Altar was the place where Christ was called vppon and worshipped not that Christ was there locallie by a corporall descention but that he was worshipped there being called vpon and serued with a spirituall ascention And if you had read Gregorie Nazianzen a litle after you should haue read that Gorgonia his sister caried about her still some peeces of the figure of the sacred bodie and bloud of Christ as it was the custome of that age and with her repentant teares shee bedewed the same not that she externallie honoured the same Here Gregorie calleth the Sacrament but a figure of the sacred bodie and bloud of Christ therefore it had been ydolatrie to haue worshipped it Esaie 42.8 Yet notwithstanding your missaleadging and misunderstanding of the premisses as also your dissenting from Scripture Fathers and auncient Popes irreligious dangerous iarres amonge your selues you easily disburden your braines from further answere thinking you haue confuted the protestants satisfied the Catholicks and so strike vp your victorious plaudite in this maner So that the brood beeing of such agreement wee haue the lesse occasion to embusie our braines to confute them Here Gentlemen you call vs a brood we will take it in the best sence for we confesse wee are Christ his brood hatcht vnder the warmth of his mercifull wings comming vnto him like hungrie chickens at the heauenlie clocke and all of his preaching ministerie to receiue that promised meat which indureth vnto euerlasting life Math. 23.37 Ioh. 6.27 And as for your pleasant Rhetoricall conceit expressed vnder this woord agreement it sheweth that in a merrie mood you haue not forgot all your verball tropes and figures Antiphrasis But when you can shew plainlie wherein the Protestants iarre amongst themselues or dissent from the Scriptures and primitiue Church in matter of faith then bestow vpon them these biting figures In the mean time your iarres amongst your selues nay your reuolt from scriptures and all primitiue practise being made now so manifest to the Catholicks it stands you vpon for the discharge of a good conscience to confesse and recant them for cure them you cannot And thus much concerning your vnfortunate successe in alleadging some of our chiefe Protestants as you terme them And now to that which followeth Fitzsimon 129. He proueth that Gorgonia adored Christ vpon the altar because it was darke night As very a Riderian reason is this to euery ones vnderstanding as the former For why might not any adore as well by night as by day otherwyse yf in darknes God could not be adored how did Tobias or any blynd men euer adore God And might not the lamps ther present haue supplyed all wante of day tyme S. August ser 215. de tempore 155. Sainct Augustin exhorted that oyle and waxe should be offred by the people to the vse of the Church and signifyed the vse of burning therof to importe that Christ might voutchsafe to lighten and nourish the fyer of charitie in vs. S. Isidorus lib. 7. etimologiarum c. de clericus Sainct Isidor telleth that the lights lamps burning in the day tyme in the Churches are to testifie our gladnes that Christ vouchsafed to be our lux vera quae illuminat omnem hominem true light which illuminateth euery man Ioan. 1. Eusebius and Nicephorus recompt when in the Church not the Temple Euseb l. 6. c. 7. Niceph. lib. 5 c. 9. which long before was destroyed of Hierusalem ther wanted oyle to the lamps Narcissus Bishopp therof demawnding water blessed it consider this ould Papistrie and suddenly natura aquae in olei pinguedinem versa splendorem luminum etiam solito reddit clariorem the nature of water sayth Eusebius about the 340. yeare after Christ was turned into the fatnes of oyle yealding a greater cleernes of the lights then accustomed What other proofs to this effect I could bring yf I knewe noe more then are in Durantus of the ceremonies of the Church may be coniectured Durant de ritibus Eccl lib. 1. c. 8. Yet for all this M. Rider shortly after will tell you that Eusebius denyed all miracles after Christs accension So then although it had bene night adoration might haue hapened Yf not otherwyse at least when light was present The 180. vntruth But let vs goe forward to the 180. vntrueth that the Pix was inuented by Innocent the third ano 1214. Witnes against this vntrueth the woords of S. Cyprian who was neere a thousand yeares elder then those tymes S. Cyprian lib. de lapâ—â— c. 5. Cum quedam arcam suam in qua Domini SanctuÌ„ fuit manibus indignis tentasset aperire igne inde surgente deterrita est ne auderet attingere VVhen a certayne woman attempted to open hir coffin or pix in which the holy of our Lord was by fyer bursting out therat she was terrifyed not to touch it Calu. l. 4. Instit c. 17. n. 35. Durant lâ—c cit c. 16. Caluin confesseth and Durantus demonstrateth the vse of such pixes froÌ„ the tyme of the Apostles The 181. vntruth is that Gorgonia found noe mysteries vpon the altar The 181.
all of them married who vtterlie refused this tyrannicall and dyabolicall Romish yoke of forced single life Nay in those daies the Nobilitie and Gentilitie of that Prouince defended that true religion with their swordes against the Pope and they refused to receiue Orders Bishoprickes or Decrees from Rome Where vpon you may see that Bernard then in the Popes quarrell calleth the Nobilitie and Gentility of that Prouince generationem malam adulteram a wicked adulterous generation and saith it was Diabolica ambitio potentum a diuelish ambition of the Peeres and mightie men And execranda successio a cursed succession 8 Immediat Lord Archbishops of Armachan maried Marke this ye Noble men Gentlemen of Ireland Imitate your Auncestors in true honour that eight Bishops successiuelie all married yet they all learned and preached the Gospell and ministred the sacraments and yet neither they the Nobilitie nor Gentilitie cared two pence for the Popes blessing or curssing O quantum mutantur ab illis O Lord how farre is the Nobilitie and Gentilitie of Vlster and that prouince nay the most part of the kingdome chaunged from that olde Apostolicall religion and become slaues and ideots in superstitious seruice to that late Italian priest the Pope Gods enemie and the Queens butcher Then they drew their swords against the Pope to defend the trueth now too manie of late drew their swordes for the Pope against the truth The Lord open their eies to see the truth and giue them hearts to renounce this new heresie cleaue to the Apostolical Romane veritie Then will all of them be as readie to fight the Lords battell against the Pope as many of late fought the Queenes battell most honorably against the Spaniard Of M. Riders graunt of the Concil of Nice to be ours And his clayme of predecessours in Vlster Fitzsimon 138. IN saying Paphnutius had confounded a whole synod of our Bishops and learned men the Concil of Nice wherof speeche is made is therby bestowed vpoÌ„ vs. None dowbted therof before Anno 1. Elizab. that it was due vnto vs vntill in the first parlament of our late Queene it was claymed to Protestantry Also by M. Riders appeale to the Fathers of the first fiue hondred yeares of whom the Concil of Nice was euer yet accompted the principal parte it might seeme to any that would beleeue him that we had no interest therin Now of his liberalitie as appeareth he bestoweth the sayd Concil vpon vs and therby vpon him selfe a most infamous confutation of his wofull clayme of the primatiue Fathers A smal mater with him to be contrarie to himselfe But is it so great a gifte as to be so thankfull for it VVhitak Pag. 12. con Campian Beza Epist theol 81. Yes sayth Beza the Polyphemus among Diuines by M. Whitakers opinion as quo nihil vnquam sanctius nihil augustius ab Apostolorum excessu sol vnquam aspexit then which the sonne neuer beheld any thing more holy or more excellent since the Apostles departure Now for recompense of this incomperable threasor contayned in this gift Genes 25. Hebr. 12. will you see a prophan Esau exchange a riche inheritance for a messe of pottage He will needs haue ancestours in our Northen Vlster such as S. Bernard sayth by sathanical ambition reserued the Archbishoprick of Armach among their familie VVhich execrable succession sayth S. Bernard had continued S. Bernardus in vita S. Malachia in fifteen generations And when they had not any of the clergie in their linadge the wicked and adulterous generation they are the woords of S. Bernard by iniquitie woorthy of all death wanted not to witt in name and vsurping Church reuennues Bishops Of which sort without orders but not without learning eight marryed had bene befor Celsus VVherby I obserue the ordre and woords of S. Bernard but breefly insued the dissolution of Ecclesiastical disciplin and ouerthrow of religion and Christianitie For reformation wherof Sainct Malachias by a vision from heauen was chosen and accepted by the King other Bishops and the faythfull of the people to his charge But the Concil of Malignant and children of Belial repugned and purposed to kill both the King and him At lengthe the cheefe of them struken by thunder with three others and the rest dispersed Malachias entred his Bishoprick and hauing by singular and powerfull means appeased his enemyes he reformed abuses The successours and recompense sought by M. Rider Al this confusion by Vlsters relation Bâ—le in his centuries perswaded M. Rider to accept vpon his credit For all is taken out of him are the forsayd intruders into Church dignities O quantum mutantur ab illis How farr are these diuers from them of the Concil of Nice Certainly I would not scarcely haue consociated my enemyes to such For yf the being only rebellious to ecclesiastical disciplin and vsurpers of Church fruicts and intrusion into Church offices and prophaning sacred places yf the doers therof were marryed can satisfye you for ancestours you may enter into your list or catalogue all sects sorts of ould Hereticks all Turcks and Iewes and armyes of malefactours as being such O quantum mutantur ab illis o how much are these inferiour to the three hondred and eighteen Fathers of the Concil of Nice For my part I wil not refuse your demand nor depriue yon of such confederats Yet yf I could I would exempt you from their ruthfull lott Now to answer the circumstances tendred by you and to the formest whether the forsayd eight learned men were not all successiuely Archbishops I say first chat the historie doth not contayne they had bene any such successiuely vnles you would haue them Puritanical Bishops For in the text of S. Bernard they are sayd to haue bene absque ordinibus without Ordres Therfor they could be nether Catholick nor Protestant Bishops as appeareth n. 99. I could the sooner thynke them to haue bene Puritan Bishops the rather for being without ordres as well because they do not allow any distinct ordre of cleargie as also because they are enemyes to all ordres and the disordred disturbers of all well ordered common wealthes and breaders of confusion Qua non immanior vlla pestis ira Deum stygio sese extulit Orco Secondly that they were named by S. Bernard no Bishops but in figure representation and appellation as you say Christ to be in the B. Sacrament For yf you may say Christ not to be otherwyse in the B. Sacrament 1. Cor. 11. notwithstanding his woords of being truely present the same who was deliuered in his passion I may say being bowlstered by the lawes of Gods Church and such proofs as I haue produced n. 99. of imposition of hands that they could not otherwyse then as aforsayd be Archbishops Next I let passe your sweet reuyling of the tyrannical and diabolical Romain yoake Thirdly the nobilities repugning against the Pope is added to the text
to be extuinguished together with the bodie ibid. RIDER Rider compared to a Painter pag. 70. Of the PisilliaÌ„s who armed themselues to a Conflict with the windes pag. 71. Rider compared to a preacher called seeke here seeke there pag. 261. Rider compared to some who being wounded in their bowells yet died laughing pag. 290. Riders woordes fâ—tlie agreeing with the woordes of the Heretique Dioscorus pag. 291. Rider compared for his lying to Stratocles pag. 292. Rider no State Protestant pag. 301. Rider fitly compared to Tarleton pag. 362. How Rider reprehended Minister Hicox for keeping a Trull and of the pretie quippes passed betwixt them vpon these woordes Base Counter Tenor. Master Sabinus Chambers testimonie of Rider Replye pag. 10. Rider vsed the verie expresse woordes of the ould Heretique Felix saying that he would be burnd and his Bookes if any thinge were written by him errenously Replye pag. 14. SACRAMENT How Heretiques disanull the vertu of Sacraments Zuinglius sayeth that it is the office of euerie Sacrament to signifie only pag. 10. Item he far preferreth the carnall and externall Sacraments of the Iewes in the ould Testament before the Sacraments of Christ in the new Testament pag. 177. Reformers affirme Sacraments nether fruitfull nor needefull if otherwise we could be mindfull of Christ. pag. 211. Others that about the woord it selfe many tragedies are risen which will not cease vntill the worlde doe last pag. 211. That it is a name proceeding from the meere follie of man ibid. Carolastadius vtterlie reiecteth it ibid. Alice Potkins Foxes Martyr denied all Sacraments saying there was no other Sacrament then Christ hanginge on the Crosse pag. 308. How wonderfully Caluin and other Sectarists extolle the mysterie of the B. Sacrament pag. 367. Diuers notable and woorthie places out of Tertullian Origen S. Cyrill S. Aug. and other verie ancient Fathers touching the wonderfull care to be vsed lest any of the B. Sacrament should fall to the ground Replye pag. 60. Obiections against the B. Sacrament answered VVhether the body of Christ may be eaten by dogges Cattes or other beastes pag. 58. Of the Sacraments in generall Sacraments not necessarie to saluation Replye pag. 68. Sacraments no meanes of grace ibid. SAINTE Of the degâ—ading of Saint Thomas of Canterburie by Henerie the 8. to be honored in Ireland for a Sainte pag. 164. Caluin plainly teacheth inuocation of Saintes pag. 195. SAYINGES The woordes of Menno giuing the Bastanado to one of his soldiers for his rayling pag. 203. Stratocles defence for his egregious lying pag. 292. The answere of Socrates to the harlot Castilla pag. 359. A notable saying of Varus Geminus to Augustus presuming vpon the vprightnes of his censure Replye pag. 6. The saying of Iulius Cesar when he had passed the riuer Rubicon ibid. pag. 13. The saying of a Gentleman to a Piper who alwayes songe one note ibid. pag. 23. The answere of Titus Tacitus to Motellut in defence of his silence Replye pag. 29. The saying of Diomedes concerning hautie minded persons pag. 30. A notable answere of S. Aug. to Faustus the Heretique affirming he had the truth pag. 49. The most memorable couragious speeche of S. Secunda to Iunius Donatus who caused hir sister Ruffina to be scourged in hir presence pag. 63. A notable saying of S. Basill of the falslie accused and false accuser pag. 96. The answere of the glorious Hormisda to the Kinge of Persia desierous to haue him renounce Christian religion pag. 100. The answere of the Emperor Frederick being demanded which of all his fauourits he most affected pag. 101. Isocrates saying that the woord of a Kinge is more to be trusted then the oathe of another pag. 103. The answere of S. Basill to the Emperor Valens being solicited to some vnlawfulnes pag. 114. SCOTS Ireland in times past the only knowen Scotland assured by two kindes of proofes Ep. Ded. par 26. 27. 28. 29. Neuer Kinge of Scots had any dominion peculiarly named Slotland in Britanie whilst the Pictes had Kinges ibid. par 35. The Scotts vtterly extirpated and abolished the name and ofspringe of the Pictes Ep. Ded. par 36. An vniuersall rule to discerne in ancient histories a Scot from an Irishe man ibid. par 37. SCRIPTVRE How the veritie of many Bookes Chapters Places of holie Scripture are called in doubt by late Reformers Luther that the three Euangelists be Apochriphall pag. 32. The Tower Disputation that S. Lukes gospell is doubtfull ibid. Rider corrupteth the 6. of S. Iohn by adding the woord Only pag. 46. Zuinglius saith that Paule ought not to arrogate so much to his Epistles as to thinke that all in them were true pag. 152. Buâ—er doubteth whether we be bound to beleeue absolutely euery thinge set downe by the Euangelists ibid. VVhitaker saith VVe passe not for the Raphaell of Tobie Replye pag. 51. It sauoureth I wott not of what superstition ibid. I litle care for the place of Ecclesiasticus nether will I beleeue free will though he affirme it an hundred times ibid. As for the Booke of Machabees I doe care lesse for it then for the others ibid. Iudas dreame of Onias I let passe as a dreame All this he Of particular places corrupted in the English Bible Replye pag. 54. SCRIPTVRE Of the prohibition of lay people to read the holie Scriptures in the vulgar tongue in S. Hierom and Tertullians times pag. 269. Item the reading of hereticall bookes prohibited by Beda pag. 270. Caluin saith that Sathan hath gained more by these new Interpretors then he did before by keeping the woord from the people pag. 270. Luther saith that if the world continue any longer it will be necessarie in this matter to receiue againe the decrees of Concils ibid. SINNE How Reformers make God the author of Sinne. Let a man take his neighbours wife or his goods ether by force or fraude because we can doe nothing vnlesse God will or approue pag. 154. If God were the author of Sinne what damnable conclusions would follow thereon Reply pag. 54. No Sinnes forgiuen but by beeing not imputed Replye pag. 67. No Sinnes in any one iustified to neede repentance or to depriue from grace ibid. SPIRITVAL RECEIVING Absurde doctrine contradiction of Protestants about their Spirituall receiuing pag. 10. The Protestants receiuing by faith proued to be ridiculous pag. 40. That spirituall thinges may be receiued corporallie and reallie manifestly proued by sundrie instances pag. 43. SVNDAY Puritans cause their seruants to goe to plough and carte on Christmas day Replye pag. 98. Only Sunday to be kept holie day according to the doctrin of Puritans Replye pag. 97. 98. SVPPER Of the vertu and substance of the Protestants Supper Proofes that Protestants nether haue Christ Corporallie nor Spirituallie nor Faithfullie nor Figuratiuelie nor Sacramentallie in their Supper pag. 37. 38. How Protestants agree together about this point Almaricus saith the bodie of Christ is not otherwise there then in any other bread pag. 48.
lesse friuolous them impertinent That wicked his that Opinion that by falsifications must be mantayned I thinke to be most true I would it had not only bene marginal but also textual as being more important and pertinent then any other parte of all this discourse Ephes. 4.25 For the which cause sayth the Apostle laying away lying speake yee trueth euery one with his neighbour But in this case I can not intreate you to omitt it S. Basil ep 10. vide ep 73. First because as S. Basil in a lyke case sayd mihi illud Diomedis subit dicere ne precâ—ris quoniam vir est improbus Nam procul duâ—to cum lenius tractantur animi elati solito insolentiores plerumque fieri solent To me the saying of Diomedes seemeth now to be sayd intreat him not because he is froward For hawtie mynds without dowbt by how much they are treated gently by so much for the most parte do they become more insolent For this M. Rider I can not intreate you to deale vprightly your disposition of it selfe being inexorable But the second cause is that lying is intrinsecal and inseparable to your profession Quasi apud lapsos prophanos extra ecclesiam positos de quorum pectoribus excesserit Spiritus sanctus esse aliud possit nisi mens praua S. Cypr. ep 69. fallax lingua odia venenata sacrilegia mendacia As yf sayd S. Cyprian with them fallen and prophane and placed owt of the Church from whose breasts the holy Ghost is departed anything els man befownd but a depraued mynde and deceitfull tong and venemouse hatreds and sacrilegiouse lyes But you may laye in our waye the late woords of S. Optatus That heynously attainting you at least lawfull proofes be not omitted I therfor saye that M. Edmond Buny confesseth our Church to be that from which you discend or are fallen which hath continued from the Apostles age to this present Luther also confesseth it in one of his last bookes Bunie in his treat to pacification tovvard the ende Omne bonum Christianum a papatu ad nos deuenisse All good of Christianitie to haue discended to them from papistrie To euery ones senses it is so euident Luth in lilâ—o in Anâ—baptiâ— that you are fallen from vs that I loath to declare it Then which reproach to be separated from vs (a) S. Aug. ep 42. l. 1. c. 5. de Symbolo ad Catech. tanquam sarmenta as chipps (b) â— Cyp. l. de vnitate ecclesiae tanquam ramos as branches (c) S. Opt. lib. 1. tanquam for as exuntes as departers foorth (d) Tertull. l. 4. con Marcion S. Vinc. c. 37. S. Iren. l. 3. c. 4. Isa 28.15 tanquam posteriores as later the holy Fathers S. Augustin S. Cyprian S. Optatus Tertullian S. Vincent Lirinensis S. Ireneus thowght none more vehement and ignominious against owld hereticks So theÌ„ it being proued that you are fallen from vs we are now to know that such wynd-shakes defend theÌ„selues as the prophet speaketh In making a lye their hope and protecting them selues by a lye Neque enim possunt laudare nos qui receduÌ„t aut expectare debemus vt placeamus illis qui nobis displicentes contra ecclesiam rebelles sollicitandis de ecclesia fratribus violenter insistunt For they that departe can not commend vs sayth S. Cyprian S. Cypr. ep 25. or should we expect that we should please them that displeasing vs as rebells against the Church doe violently imploy them selues in solliciting the brethren from the Church By which premisses is implyed that yf the cause be wicked that must be defended by lyes the cause of the lapsed of the departed or of the runnagats from Catholick religion must be wicked the cause of M. Rider being such apparently must be wicked the cause of one so often fownd in prodigious vntruthes must be wicked which may suffice for this point 10. Fourthly Rider That Images and praying to Saints were then neither taught by those Fathers nor receiued of the Catholicke Church Here Maister Fitzsymon according to his wonted manner saith That Images and Saints were worshipped but how fondly he endeuoreth to prooue his wrested opinion by misalledging Fathers and bringing in of fables I deferre to mention it hoping by your good perswasion he will mend it 10. Title VVhether it be true that I mis-aleadged Fathers and alleadged fables to confirme the vvorshipp of Images Fitzsimon 10. YOu haue M. Riders authoritie that I did both the one and the other but not without Riderian veritie that is to tell euer the contrary What I haue sayd of this mater in my first booke of the Masse will shew to euery one that Scriptures Fathers and Antiquities do iustifie and certifie the worship of Images Cap. 4. tit 5. beyond all occasion of my misalleadging Fathers and alleadging fables in confirmation of them But yf both new and owld Testament were produced to that effect yf all monuments of Doctors Fathers and Histories were it not easie to affirme without al proofe or probalitie contrarie to all certaintie and notwithstanding greatest remorse of fidelitie that all were but forged what idiot but might doe do as much to witt vpon his bare woorde to depestre him selfe thus of disproofs to denie more in one hower then all the learned in the world may proue in one age To that ende principaly that his omission be knowen to haue proceeded from a guiltie conscience and impossibilitie to aunswer my proofs to that effect I haue inserted the substance of them in the treatise of the Masse or els would here haue exhibited them For he that sought so seeliely to take howld on the testimonies of Beda Caluin c. where not withstanding as well occasion as apparence of all contradiction as is shewed most palpably wanted and yet followed them so eagerly what thinke you yf he would seeme wyse would he but glawnce at allegations yf they were in dede false and at relations that were without dout fabulouse But of his abusing the vnderstanding of readers by so palpable delusions so contentiously euery where maintayned besyd what is befor sayd some what may follow Yf it will please him or his consorts to be thankefull for a proffitable example therby to leaue these exorbitant forgeries by them vsed in liew of other aunswer I present this historie recorded by Cesarius and others toward their ameÌ„dment Caesar l. 3. c. 37. Ioan. Heroli ser 24. post Trinit Two marchants of Colen confessed to their ghostly father two fowle although ordinarie offenses lying and periurie in saying and swearing that among all others they alone had sound and cheape wares from places of greatest request from woorkmen of greatest fame from other perfections most esteemed in the meane tyme knowing that their wares in dede were inferior to them of their neighbours and had neuer bene from places woorkmen and other