SacrameÌ„tes vvhich in deed they denie I vvoulde be glad allso to heare hovv you caÌ„ aunsvveare some fevv quaestions concerninge the same and firste hovv baptisme is ministred to children and infantes vvhich knovv not vvhat they receaue or take vvhen they are Christened D. Sir the reason heerof is the greate necessitye vvhich there is of baptisme because vvhosoeuer dyeth vvithout it or desire at least of it cannot enter into the Kingedome of heauen Io. 3. and because younge children are tender and in daunger to die vvith greate facilitie beinge not of capacitie to desire baptisme it is necessarie to Christen them vvith all speed possible and allbeit they knovv not vvhat they take the Churche doth supplye by they re Godfathers and Godmothers vvhat in them vvanteth vvhich is sufficiente for as by meanes of Adam vve fell into sinne and disgrace of God all though vve then knevv nothinge of it so God is contented that by meanes of Christes Churche and baptisme vve shoulde be deliuered from sinne and returne into his grace allbeit vve knovv nothinge nor thincke not of it M. And vvhat mysterie is there in it that in Confirmation the forehead of the partie confirmed is annointed D. Because as in baptisme by the vvater and vvashinge is signified that the grace of God doth cleÌ„se the soule from the spottes of all sinne so in confirmation by annointinge is represented the effecte of Gods grace vvich doth as it vvere annointe the soule to comforte and strengtheÌ„ the same againste the Deuill that therby he may vvith the more courage confesse the Catholique faith vvithout feare of any tormentes or death it selfe vvhen it shoulde be offered and therfore it oughte to be gyuen as soone as the childe is come to the vse of reason because then he beginneth to professe the faith and hath need to be confirmed and established in it allbeit vvhen this Sacramente for juste causes cannot be administrated as sometymes in greeuous persecutions of the Church it happeneth it is to be noted that this Sacracramente is not absolutelie necessarie to saluation M. And hath this Sacramente any other effecte D. It hath for it imprinteth in the soule of man a marcke vvhich the diuines call a Character vvhich can neuer be extinguished and is the cause vvhy this Sacramente can neuer be but once receaued as before hath been specified that as by the Character of baptisme a man is knovvne to be a Christian that is of CHRISTES familie so by this he may be knovvne to be one of CHRISTES souldiours vvhich allvvayes câ—â—e the coloures or badge of they re captayne vvherevvppon it follovveth that they vvhich after they haue receaued this Sacramente goe to hell shall haue moste deepe confusion for euerye one shall see that they had made profession to be souldioures of CHRISTE and yeat aftervvardes rebelled so dishonourablye againste him M. But tell me allso touchinge the blessed Sacramente of the altare hovv it commeth to passe that CHRISTE beinge reallye there yeat vve seeme to see small touche and taste the same bread or vvine that before as farre as sence can lead vs. D. TransubstaÌ„tiation You say vvell sence for reason faith and religion teach vs other vvise vvherfore allso this Sacramente is called of some the Sacramente of faithe aboue all other because no sence but that of hearinge Rom. 10. by vvhich faith is taughte vs hath any true judgemente of this mysterie no other vvise then by the Scripture vve knovv that Lots vvyfe vvas chauÌ„ged in to a piller of salte and yeat retained the shape of a vvoman and therfore as then in that mutation or conuersion vvas chaunged the substance of Lots vvyfe vvithin yeat remayned the figure vvithout so in this mysterie the invvarde substance of bread or vvine is truely chaunged and transmuted into the reall bodye and bloud of oure Sauioure and yeat remayne outvvardlie the figures and formes of bread and vvine as before vvhich allthough it seeme straunge especiallye in that pointe that so great a bodye or person shoulde stande vnder so small a forme and accidente as is that of the hoste consecrated yeat to Gods omnipotence nothinge is impossible Matth. 19. as him selfe sayde of a camell that God could make to passe throughe the eye of a needle thoughe to men it seeme alltogeather impossible and if vve reflecte vvith attention vppon the naturall actions of mans bobye and soule vve shall finde manie that vvill seeme no lesse straunge then this and manie effectes that be euidente though vve cannot vvell comprehende hovv they be doen as for example hovv so greate bodies as cities seas and mountaynes and the like in theire vvhole exteÌ„sion or greatnesse are compreheÌ„ded and lodged in so litle a compasse as a mans eye yea vvhich is more in the verie pointe vvhere the eye doth exercise his operation and in a mans memorie vve finde sufficiente roome and capacitie for a vvhole vvorlde vvhereat Sainte Austen himselfe did so vvonder D. Aug. libr. 10. confess admiringe Gods vvorckes so incomprehensible vnto vs. M. And coulde you gyue some suche other similitude vvherby it may be declared hovv the bodye of oure Sauioure may stande in so manye diuers places at there are hostes in diuers altares D. Trulye sir in Gods vvorckes it is not necessarie to vnderstande them but it is sufficiente to beleeue them for vve are sure that God cannot deceyue vs yeat can I gyue an example allso of the same for oure soule it is certayne that it is but one aloâ—e in the vvhole bodye and all the partes therof vvhole and all in the head and vvhole and all in the feet yea vvhole and all in euerie toe or finger and anie other the least parcell of oure bodye hovv then should it seeme incredible that God shoulde be able to doe that vvith the bodye of his soÌ„ne vvhich vve see he hath allreadie done vvith the soule in oure bodyes puttinge it in so manye so differente and so distante partes of the same and vve see in the same lookinge glasse vvherin firste vve coulde see but one vvhole sace after it is broken into an hundred diuers peeces it serueth beinge the same glasse to represente the same face and that all at once in an hundred differeÌ„te parcells and places and if you vvill haue an other example no lesse familiare then harde to be vnderstoode hovv it is doen the same voyce of a man that speaketh is hearde entyre and vvhole and receaued all at once into the eares of an huÌ„dred thovvsande persons if so many be presente M. But I desire to knovve of you allso vvhether vvhen Christe coÌ„meth into the hoste he forsake his place in heauen to come to the altare or remayne yeat in both places D. To this I aunsvveare that he remayneth in both places and neuer moueth from his place in heauen no more then the soule of a childe vvhich is yeat but a foote longe vvhen the same childe is become a man of fiue or sixe
A BRIEFE INSTRVCTION BY VVAY OF DIALOGVE CONCERNINGE THE PRINCIPALL poyntes of Christian ReligioÌ„ gathered out of the holy Scriptures Fathers and Councels By the ReuereÌ„de M. George Doulye Priest Luci succedit nox Sapientiam autem non vincit malitia Sap. 7. CVM PRIVILEGIO Imprinted at Louaine by Laurence Kellam Anno 1604. THE PREface ALL heresies Christian reader as other diseâ—ses vvhether of the bodie Suâ—ius and Cochlaeus c. or of the minde haue they re beginning increase state and declination this of Luther and Caluyne begaÌ„ne to be published in Germanie about the yeare of our Lord The Duke of Saxonye aspiringe to the Empyre The Prince of CoÌ„de the Admirall others in France 1517. and a little after in France vvhere it increased so much vvith libertie of life joyned vvith interest and pretensions of temporall Princes as it stirred vppe those furious rebellions vvarres and other tragicall actions vvhich vve haue seen and heard of in those countries as allso in Flanders The Prince of Aurange in Flanders and other partes of Christendome vvhersoeuer it hath come vvithin the compasse of Europe out of vvhich it hath not yet crepte albeit as the Apostle speaketh it hath crepte like a caÌ„cker 2. Timot. c. 2. verse 17. the poyson vvhereof infectinge so manye prouinces came into our countrie by occasion of the inordinate affection vvhich kinge Henrie the eyght tooke to Anne Bollen mother to the late Queene Elisabeth beheaded aftervvard for her juste desertes by the sayde kinge her husband for vvhose sake he broke vvith the See Apostolike and tooke vppon him the title of Supremacie in spirituall matters to haue some colour to put avvay Queene Catherine his lavvfull vvife vvherunto the Pope coulde not be brought for that he judged the diuorce to be vnjuste and contrarie to Goddes holy lavv By this occasion haeresie tooke roote in England vnder Kinge Henrie spronge vppe in Kinge Edvvardes dayes vnder the gouermeÌ„t of his protectors aftervvardes executed for treason and came to that state in the reygne of Queene Elisabeth as the politike gouernors of her councell vvho had founded theyr authoritie greatnesse in the aduauncement of the same presumed after they had taken avvay the life of the renovvned Princesse Queene Marie of ScotlaÌ„d they coulde so establishe it that they shoulde be able to bannish Catholique Religion for euer out of England But the contrary hath happened as in all other heresies and like attemptes of ages past may bee seene the vnsearcheable vvisedome of almightie God coÌ„foundinge the vayne cogitations and shallovv deuises of mortall men In the dominions of the Archeduke FerdinaÌ„do Novv in Germanie and in those Northerne countries adioyninge after so longe and so great desolation vvee see great progresse of the Catholique fayth In Hungarie Transyluania Zuizerland Polonia c. vvhere euerye daye God be thanked tovvnes cyties and vvhole countries vvearied vvith heresie cast of this infamous yoke and embrace that truthe vvhich they re forefathers professed vvith much more feruour then there vvas before heresie entred amongest them In Flanders the like and vvhere the countrie is not oppressed vvith vvarres or rebellion the pietie deuotion and Christian lyfe of the people is incomparablie bettered since they haue deliuered them selues from the thralldome of these erroneous and Apostata doctrines France is risinge apace by the memorable example of the most Christian Kinge Henrie the. 4. vvho beinge deceaued by heretiques in his youth hath shaken them of and they re pestilente counsayles since he is come to more mature yeares and throughe his vvisedome and valure obtayned such quietnesse in his kingdome that neyther he hath novv anye more cause to feare them neyther vvas it knovvne peraduenture since Charlemayne that any Kinge of that Countrie hath enioyed that crovvne vvith more prosperitie The like example vvaÌ„teth onlye in England and to Gods omnipotencie is as factible as in Fraunce vvhere Kinge Henrie the eyghtes succession is ended for the vvhich and the inordinate desire he had to haue children after tvventie yeares roygne vvith renovvne and glorie in the eyes of all Christendome vvhilest he liued a Catholicke after diuers royall exploites the increase of his regalities by the most sacred title of defender of the faythe gayned vvith that vvorthie and Kingelie vvorke vvritten againste Luthers doctrine hee most miserablie lefte God and his Churche and that seede is novv vvholie extinguished vvherevvith heresie vvas sovven and shoulde haue been perpetually maintayned in oure countrie and the persecutions past haue serued for nothinge lesse then for that they vvere principallie intended but contrarievvise kindlinge charitie and the loue of Christe in Catholike soules haue not onelie conserued but augmented and illustrated the fayth aboue all expectation so as vvee see the benediction of our Sauiour and the regions vvhite and readâ—e for haruest vvhose reapers constantlie labouringe in this cause patientlie expecte Gods prouidence vvho vvhen tyme shall require vvill put into the hartes of those in vvhole hands the gouernement is to mitigate the rigour of penall lavves vvhereby the publishinge of Gods truthe may vvith more svveetenes goe forvvard vvhich vvhen hovvsoeuer it shall fall out in the meane tyme experience doth teach that some forme of instruction is necessarie for the informinge of those poore soules vvhich hitherto haue knovven no other Religion but that vvherein they vvere borne by vvhich they are taught throughe the importunate clamours of Caluins ministers to detest the Catholike Religion before they knovve it for so vve comming to tell our ovvne tale they may judge vvith indifferencie and learne to distinguish betvveene true Catholike doctrine and heresie vvhich is that vve especiallie pretende for if Catholicke Religion vvere as the malice or ignorance of these sectaries teach and make the commoÌ„ people beleeue it vvere not onlie follie but meere madnesse to be a Catholicke but the contrarie vvill here quicklie be seene and vvhat conuenience and excellence harmonye our Religion hath vvith all truth and reason and the lighte and majestie vvhich it carieth in it selfe by vvhich alvvayes it hath ouergrovvne and confounded all sectes and heresies in the vvorlde and that if the aduersarie haue anye shevve or apparence of Religion it is vvith thinges vsurped and stolne from vs or counterfeyted by imitation of the Catholickes no other vvise then apes imitate men Tertullian Lectantius Vincentius Liâ—iâ— c. and the deuill the vvorckes of God as some of the auncient fathers haue noted the rest and that vvhich is meerlie theyr ovvne beinge nothinge els but drosse baggage beggerie as anye man of judgemeÌ„t not preoecuppated vvith passioÌ„ vvill easilie discerne euen by the readinge of this little Dialogue little in volume but great in substance for the greate importante matters it conteyneth necessarie for our saluation the greatest affayre that vvee can treate of in this life vvhich vvas first vvritten for the helpe and instruction of particular frendes not vvithout some
heretiques then such indeed may by reason of theyr naturall inclination to vertue and modesty be vvith holden from those excesses vvherunto other vvise theyr erroneous beleefe doth provoke theÌ„ as amongst the Moores Turks Ievves and other infidels some morall honest men are to be found But you shall never find that any man habituated accustomed to sinne hath bene coÌ„verted to vertue and holynesse of lyfe by the force of any Religion but only in by the Catholique fayth of vvhich are proprely vnderstood those vvordes of the Prophet Lex DnÌ„i iÌ„maculata coÌ„verteÌ„s animas the lavv of God is vnspotted and coÌ„verteth soules And by vvhich oÌ„ly meÌ„ become saintes gyving theyr lyues in testimony of this faith are truely called Martyrs of vvhose merites and of all other holy and spirituall benefittes and graces The communioÌ„ of Saintes Ps 118. Rom. 12.1 Cor. 12. 2. Cor. 8. Ephe. 4. Coloss 2. Philippens 1. IoaÌ„n 1. Aug. EnchiridioÌ„ c. 36 ser de tpe â—81 The Thirde signe Vniuersall Ps 2. versi 8. Mat. 28. Ma r. 16. Luc. 24. Cypr. l. de vnitale Ecclesiae Bas Epist 72. Hieron l. 4. in Isai c. 12. Anbros in Ps 39 Aug. in Ps 9 reg in regiset alibi all Good Catholiques as children of the same mother are made partakers VVhervpon allso folovveth an other article in the Creede The communion of Saintes M. So that there can be no saint nor Martyr excepte he be Catholique although he die for his Religion D. No vndoubtedly for it is not the punishment as S. Austine sayeth but the cause intention that maketh a Martyr M. VVel goe forvvard then vvith the other markes of the Church D. The thirde is the name Catholique vvhich signifieth Vniuersall and folovveth of the reason aboue said for that is the true faith and consequently must nedes be but one As vve see that it is receiued generally in the vvhole vvorlde amongst all nations vnto the farthest endes of the earth and hath florished in all ages euer since Christ The Fourth signe Apostolique Vide. D. Basil l. de Spir. S. c. 27. Tertul. de praescript cap 36. Leo. Pap. ser 1. de Petr. Paulo Irenae l. 3. adâ—â—rsus haereses c. 4. Aug. Epist 50. ad Bonifa ibi 1. ad HonoratuÌ„ tom 6. contra Ep. Fundam c. 4 l. 1. coÌ„tra CrescomiuÌ„ gramat c. 33. hist Triparsitam l. 9. c. 19. vvher as other sectes remaine in corners and as they breed of corruption so they dure not longe nor by any of them vvas euer any nation conuerted to Christ M. VVhich is the fourth marke D. This vvorde Apostolique for by continuall succession of Popes and Bishops from Christes Apostles vvee can proue that our Religion hath euer endured in the vvorlde neuer corrupted nor interrupted euen vnto this day vvhich no heretike can say but that he is presently conuinced of nouelty M. That is very true and especially of the sectaries of this age vvhich beganne all vvith their maister Luther in the yeare of our lord 1517. But tell me also the fifte and last note The fifte signe Romaine Vide Mat. 16 5. Leo. 5. Mar. in festuÌ„ Apostolor Orig tom 1. in proemio periarchen Anaclet Pap. Ep. 1. Chrysost de Aâ—â—st Petro Paulo Hieren Ep. ad Daâ—â—sum Terâ—ull de praescript cont haeret c. 36. vvhy doe you call it the Romaine faith D. Because saint Peter on vvhome as vpon a rocKe our Sauiour built his Church and promised that his faith should neuer faile saienge that hell gates should neuer preuaile against it first planted and possessed that seate togeather vvith saint Paule and aftervvardes they beinge the principall Apostles sealed the authority of the same vvith theyr glorious Martyrdome Since vvhen euen vnto the Pope novv lyuinge vvas neuer any heretique nor Apostata in that holy chayre and there haue beene in it many vvorthy saintes and Martyrs M. So that vvhosoeuer doth not buyld on this rocKe or builde besides it can not be constant nor assured in Religion D. Very true and moreouer he may be sure that his buildinge vvill perish as it appeareth in all the heresies of times past vvhich novv God be praysed are consumed though for a tyme they raged vvith sundry persecutions like vvaues of the sea against this vnmoueable rocke of our Religion And the lyKe ende I hope for shortly of all these present sectaries M. You haue great reason For heauen and earth shall passe but this vvorde and promise is euerlasstinge But tell me if the case so stande vvhat foundacion doe those seculare Princes builde vppon vvhich take vnto them selues the title of supremacie in Ecclesiasticall as vvell as ciuile affaires D. Vppon the sandes and shalovves of flatteringe courtiers and couetous politiques Cromvvel and Cranmer after vvar doe executed for traitoures K. Henry the. 8. deceiued by euil counsaile vvhich vvas the firste K. that eâ—â—er tooke the title of supremcye on him Hughe Latimer Peter Martir Martin Bucer Ridley c. â—o groâ— that eueÌ„ Caluin him selfe theire chiefe Catangeliste vvrote against yt repreheÌ„dinge therfore K. Harry thoughe vvith more libertie theÌ„ became so sleighte a CompanioÌ„ to speake of so potents a prince See his preface vppon Amoâ— vvho to enioye the fatte morsells of Abbey landes and Church goods first put this false persuasion in they re Princes heades soothinge theire rauenous pretensions vvith the vendible doctrine of hungrye ministers vvho for they re priuate interest enuye and ambition made sale of they re ovvn conscience and shipvvracke of the vvhole common vvealth by preachinge this grosse and erroneous paradox hauinge no one sentence vvorde or syllable in holy scripture or any aunciente vvriter for it M. VVhy doe not the scriptures often say that the Kinge is to be honoured and feared and the like D. I graunte yovv but vvhat coherence or consequence hath this vvith makinge the Kinge or Queen a Pope or Bishope or supreame head of the Church vvhich is all one seinge them selues graunte that a vvoman or seculare person thoughe a Prince can not doe the office of a prieste Pope or Bishope as to minister the Sacramentes preache in publike giue holy orders or the liKe vvhich are annexed and can not be denyed to him vvhich in truth is head of the Church no more then it can be denyed in ciuile affaires that a Kinge if he liste may supply the place of an Esquire Knighte Mayre or Constable or any other office vvhich is subordinate to him selfe in his ovvne Kingdome because the greater and superior povvre doth all vvayes include the lesser and the inferior jurisdiction M. If this be so those that be Catholiques and liue vnder suche a Prince as VVoulde take this title vpon him vvill hardelie be thoughte true subiectes for they re conscience beinge contrarye thervnto it seemeth to folovv that they serue they re Prince but by halues that is vvith they re bodies onlye D. Perhappes it seemeth so but in truth
it is far othervvise for Good Catholiques Knovv that all subiectes are bounde in conscience to obey theyr lavvfull Prince in all thinges belonginge to his regall iurisdiction and dignitie thoughe he vvere an heathen or infidel and therfore serue him vvith they re soules allso so longe as the Kinge doth not commaunde any thinge againste God vvhich I hope no Christian vvill doe But protestauntes and politiques vvhich turne vvith euery proclamation and parlamente euen in matter of faith allso I aske yovv vvith vvhat conscience or soule they serue they re soueraigne doe yovv not thincKe that these companions if it shoulde serue they re turne vvoulde be as flexible vvith they re bodyes as they are vvith they re soules all readye and so serue him in deed vvith neyther halfe vvhen he shoulde haue moste need of they re seruice seinge there can be no durable obedience but that vvhich is founded in true Religion as appeared in the famous example of the Emperoure Constantius Euseb libr. 1. de Vita Constantin Zozom lib. 1. c. 6 vvho by the constancye of his seruauntes in Religion tryed they re fidelitie and truste to his person all be it the triall vvere made in a Religion vvhich him selfe did not folovv M. But hovv can yovv excuse this pointe that the Kinge by submittinge hīselfe to the Pope in Church matters must needes putte a bridle in his ovvn mouth and depriue him selfe of his chiefest libertie by takinge suche a yoke on his shoulders D. If I did not see before mine eyes that the most Christian and vvithall the moste puissaunte Kinges of all Christendome thincKe this subjection no disparagemente to theire greatnes nor abridgemente to theire libertie and florishe moste gloriously vnder this estate I shoulde peraduenture thincke yovv had some reason to propose this quaestion Kinge Edgar K. Edvvarde the firste and the thirde K. Henry the fifte c. but beinge as it is yea and that in oure ovvn countrie neuer Kinges more triumphed and prospered eyther in peace or vvarres eyther by sea or lande eyther at home or in forraine countries then those vvhich vvere moste obediente to the Popes authoritie vvhat bridle or yoke call yovv that vvhich so many Kinges and Emperoures haue caryed vvith encrease of they re honoure and comforte of they re conscience especiallie seinge the obediēce vve exhibite to the Pope as Christes Vicar is referred moste directelie to the honoure and glorie of God Cui seruire regnare est Gods seruice is a Kingedome as the Prouerbe affirmeth And I pray God they vvhich rejecte this yoke rejecte not God him selfe as once he saide in the lyke case 1. Reg. cap. 8. to the people of Israel vvhen they refused the gouermente of Samuel the Prophete and asked a Kinge M. VVhy Thincke yovv it vvere not conueniente that the Pope at leaste for the Catholiques cōforte and ease shoulde dispense vvith them to th ende they mighte so contente the better they re Prince vvhen he shall exacte this spirituall obedience at they re handes D. In no case for as muche as in so doinge muste needes follovv cōfusion in all Ecclesiasticall discipline and Christian men shoulde be lefte vvithout a iudge or vmpyre to decide determine all doubtes and controuersies vvhich may grovv in Religion especially consideringe that no estate is more occasioned to gyue scandall vnto the cōmon people neyther haue any sorte of men more greeuously erred in all matters belonginge to true Religion and Gods seruice then Kinges them selues as to omitte all other examples the holy scriptures doe testifie that amonghste all and so many Kinges of God◠chosen people there vvere bu◠three onelye that Kepte Gods lavv Dauid Ezechias and Iosias Eccl. cap. 49. the reste euery one more or lesse fallinge them selues or permittinge manifest idolatrie Besides vvhich allbeit the Pope vvoulde he can not dispense in this pointe no more then in any article of the Crede for as much as both this and all other articles of the Catholique faith are commaunded and cōmended to Christians by Christe him selfe vvhose diuine preceptes especially be longing to faith as this doth of S. Peters primacie vvhich Christe him selfe appointed the Pope cānot chaunge M. You haue sayde arighte and by this yovv see it follovveth that no temporall Prince oughte to presse his Catholique subjectes in this case excepte he vvill allso compell them to deny God vvhom they are vndoubtedley persuaded to be the author maister and commaunder of this doctrine but lette vs returne to oure former question are there any more signes markes of this true Church D. Yea sir many in so much that the learned haue vvritten vvhole volumes of the same But these fiue are enough for me beinge founded in such substantiall reasons as are the Principalitie vnitie sanctitie antiquitie and vniuersalitie of the Romain Church hovv thinke you M. Mary I thinke passinge vvell o◠it and vvishe that vve all may haue grace to perseuer in it and vvhen God shoulde so dispose to leese all our goods and landes yea and our liues also for the same M. You haue sayde enoughe of the Church and by that little you haue sayde of the communion o◠the communion of saintes you haue sufficiently giuen to vnderstande hovv great a benefitte it is to bee a member of such a charitable and blessed bodie but tell me as all Catholiques liuinge enjoy this communion of eche others praiers merittes and good vvorkes doe those also participate of them vvhich are excommunicated by lavvful authority Excommunication D. No sir for therefore they are called excommunicated because they are depriued of this communion of saintes and are as braūches cutte of from the tree or membres from the bodie vvhich consequently doe not participate of that good humore vvhich is spreade amongste the rest of the braunches vvhich remaine vnited VVhere by may be gathered vvhat greate accōpte ought to bee made of excommunication seinge he can not haue God for his father vvhich hath not the Church for his mother M. And are the excommunicate out of the Church as vvell as heretickes and other infidells D. They are sir But vvith this difference that Ievves and Turkes are out of the Churche because they neuer entred in-to it by baptisme The heretickes vvhich are baptized but haue loste theyr faith are foorthe because they are fled or runne avvay of them selues like strayde or loste sheepe vvhome the shephearde doth vvith his hooke compell some tymes to returne to his flocke againe But the excommunicate because they haue baptisme and faith are not fledde of them selues but are driuen foorth by force by the pastor and lefte lyke scabbed sheepe for praye to the vvolues excepte by humility and obedience they returne againe to the folde M. VVhat is meante by Remission of sinnes Remissiō of sinnes vvhich is the tenthe article D. There are in Gods Church three principall benefittes Mat. 16. Ioā 20. Cypr. l. 1. Ep. 2. Chryso lib. 3. de
haue mercy vpon vs Inuocation of Saintes Vide 1. Reg. 15 4. Reg. 5. Iob. 5.2 Machab. 1.15 Isai 37. Iob. 12. Dan. 10. Ierem. 15 Matt. 18. Ps 67.1 Cor 14. Apoc. 17 21. Orig. l. 8. coÌ„t Celsum Cypr. serm de mâ—rtali Baâ—il â—o in 40. marty Naz. in Câ—pâ— Athan. Basil Hieron cont Vigilant Athan ser 2. de deipara Ambros lib. de vi dais orat 2. in mort fâ—at Aug. lib. 7. de bapt coÌ„tra donat cap. 1. Greg. lib. 12. moral cap. 13 c. because vve Knovve shee is but a creature M. VVhy if shee be but a creature as all other saintes are hovv is it not an injury to God to praye vnto any other but to him sith he hath inuited vs sayenge come vnto me all you that are loaden c. VVhereby it shoulde seeme vve haue no neede to seeke to any other mediator D. You say vvell if by prayenge to saintes vve forsooke God but beinge that therefore vve praye vnto the saintes because vve maye the more easily and speedely come vnto him and be the better accepted of him there is no doubt of dishonouringe God vvhile vve praye vnto them vvhom he him selfe hath glorified and vvoulde they should be of all creatures honoured euen as it is no diminishinge but rather encreasinge of any Princes maiesty to haue many honourable seruantes and subjectes and to make remonstrance that he doth esteeme them M. But hovv can the saintes and AuÌ„gels see vs or heare our prayers D. By seeinge God in vvhom they see and heare allthinges pertaininge vnto them For if vve knovve that the holy Prophetes vvhile they year liued could see and heare all thinges that God reuealed vnto them though they vveare farre distant or longe after to come muche more vvee are to beleeue the same of the saintes and Angels vvhich are still in Gods presence M. But doth not the Scripture attribute this title vnto God only that he knovveth and searcheth the harte and reynes hovv then can the saintes beinge creatures haue so greate a priuilege D. Sir it is true that God onely hath this attribute of his ovvne povver or puissance and therefore the saintes not of them selues but in him and by his reuelation doe knovve the hartes thoughtes of others yea and mortall men may knovve allso all the secretes of my harte if God should disclose the same vnto them M. I like very vvell of your ansvvere But then I vvoulde faine knovve the cause vvhy the heretiques doe so much impugne this pointe and especially the honoure done vnto the blessed Virgen Marie D The reason is manifest For the Scripture saith that God vvould put enmitye betvveen the seede of the vvoman and the seede of the serpent as heretikes are falsely impugninge the true prayse and honoure due to our blessed Lady as allso diuers of the Sacramentes good vvorkes penauÌ„ce purgatorie and suche like especiall helpes for mans saluatioÌ„ Yea supposing the vnsatiable enuye and hatred that the devill hath against CHRIST and all that is his it is no marvell that the heretiques vvho as Saint Polycarpus calleth them be primogeniti Diaboli do hate and oppugne the honour of our blessed Lady vvho hath so strait and neare allyance vvith our Sauiour And hovv can it othervvise be but that those vvho possessed vvith the vncleane spirite haue no other scope of theyr vvhole lyfe and Religion but meere liberty and sensuality should be vvithout deuotion to her vvhich is the true Maistres mother and mirrhour of all chastity and purity Besides that she hauinge alvvayes bene the bane and overthrovv of heretiques in all ages no vvonder if they vvho are nothing els but a fardell and nevv broode of ould heresyes are guyded by the same spirite that theyr forfathers vvere and vse the same malignity againste her that those vsed M. Truly it is so But tell me hath the Church any vsuall prayer to the saintes and especially to our Ladie D. To the saintes vve vse the letanies and other deuoute prayers in particular but to the blessed Virgen the principall is the Aue Marie M. I pray you say the same Vide Athan. serm de deipara Ambros Luc. 1. Chrysost in liturgia Aug. ser 2. de annuÌ„cia Fulg. serm de laudibus Mariae Bern. ho. 5. in missus est c. D. Hayle Marie full of grace our lord is vvith thee blessed art thou amoÌ„gest all vvomen and blessed is the fruyte of thy vvombe IESVS holye Marie mother of God pray for vs sinners novv and in the hovver of our death Amen M. Tell me vvho made this Aue Marie D. Our holy mother the Church takinge the vvordes of the Angell Gabriel vvhen he came to salute our Lady the Virgen Marie and some of the vvordes of sainte Elizabeth in her visitation and the rest is added by the Church so as consideringe that all these vvordes beinge eyther of God by his Angell Gabriel Oure Blessed Ladie vvithout sinne See S. Damas orat 11. de natiu virg et orat 2. 3. l. 3. de fid c. 2. D. Laure. Iustin ser de annuncia lib. de cast coÌ„ animae cap. 7. in fascic amo c. 7. IdiotaÌ„ de conteÌ„pl Virg. c. 2. 6 SeduliuÌ„ lib. 2 paschal S. VinceÌ„t Fer. serm 1. de natiu 2. de nati virg D. Aug. lib. de nat gra cap. 36. c. 5. coÌ„t Iulian. c. 9. S. Cypr. de Card. op Christi c. de nati Christi Amb. ser 22. in Ps 118. D. Hierony in cap. 10. Eccl. Sophro. Ep. Synod in 6. syn act 11. S. Brun. in Ps 101. Richard Victor in cant cap. 26. 42. lib. 1. de Emanuel c. vlt. Pet. Daemia ser de natiu virg serm de annunc Arator lib. 1. in Act. Apost D. Iacob in Liturg. cit a 6. syn cant 32. 7. syn act 3. Conc. Francford Ep. ad epÌ„os Hispa Origen bo 1. ex var. Andre Cretens serm de assumpt Euthiâ—â—i serm de zon virg D. Ansel lib. de concep vir c. 18. cit a D. Th. in 1. d. 44. q. vnic ar 3. Theodoret. l. 3. in cant Irenae l. 3. coÌ„t haer cap. 35. Hippol. orat de sanctificat Cyril bo 6. in Concil Ephes Epipha haer 78. Innoc. 3. serm 2. de assumpt Hesyc Concio 2. de B. V. FulbertuÌ„ Carn ex Canis lib. 1. cap. 7. Ansel lib. de excell virg cap. 9. SS Basil Chrysostom in suis liturg c. or of the holy ghoast by the mouth of Sainte Elizabeth and his spouse the Catholique Church vve may justely say that this prayer vvas made by God him selfe or by the holye ghoast M. VVhat doe you thinke vvorthe the nothinge in this Aue Marie D. Besides the petitioÌ„ I note fovvre especiall prayses and commendations of our Blessed Ladie M. VVhich be they D. The first in those vvordes Full of grace for in this shee did so a bounde that shee neuer had in her soule any blotte or staine
Sancti Iacobus Basil Chrysostom in liturgiis Chrysostom hom 77. in Ioanâ—eâ— homili 18. in Act. Apost Cyprian libr. 1. Epiâ—â—l 9. Epiphan haeresi 75. D. Hieronym 1. ad Tiâ—â—â— Clem. Rom. Epistol 5. Ambros in Psalm 38. â— 1 efficior cap. 18. August libr. 9. confess cap. 11 1â—.13 since the beginninge of the vvorlde and for that our Sauiour ordained a better forme of religion then euer had been eyther vnder the lavv of nature or the lavv of Moyses he appointed allso and gaue vs the greatest sacrifice that could be possible vvich vvas him selfe in the Masse M. The Masse hath many partes in it tell me vvherein beginneth the true bodie and bloode of our Sauiour to be present D. Strayght vppon the vvordes of consecration vvhich is at the eleuation at vvhat tyme it is especially adored of all true Christians M. And vvho vvas the first that euer sayde Masse in the vvorlde D. Our Sauiour Iesus Christ in his last supper Vide Orig. homil 3. in variis Naz. orat in GorgoniaÌ„ Chrysost hom 24. in 1. ad Cor. homil 61. ad populum Antiochen Aug. in Ps 98. Amb. lib. 3. de Spiritu Sanct. cap. 12. at vvhat tyme he made his Apostles priestes gyuinge them povver and authority to doe the like and to make and teache others that should succeed them M. Hovv chauÌ„ceth it that this vvord Masse is not founde in holy Scripture D. Because the names of things are gyuen vppon sundry occasions and our fayth is not grounded on vvordes but in thinges and substance for in lyke manner neyther these vvordes Trinity Incarnation Consubstantiall and the lyke are to be found in holy vvritte yeat Christians beleeue coÌ„stantly these mysteries M. You ansvvere to the purpose but tell me may not those vvordes of our Sauiour vvherevvith he did consecrate be vnderstood by a figure D. The reall presence of Christ in the B SacrameÌ„t No sir in no vvise at all for being the most important mystery of all other vvhich euer he taught his Apostles if he had spoken by a figure he him selfe vvould haue expounded the same as he did many others of lesse moment besides that Mat. 26. Mar 14. Luc. 22. 1. Corint 11. Aug. Ep. 86. Châ—â—sost hom 17. Operis imperfecti Theâ—philact Be daâ—â—n 24. Luc Aug. lib. 3. de â—â—â—â—buaÌ„g 〈◊〉 2â— Tertull. â— 2 ad vxâ—r Cypr. serm de de lapsis Orige hom 13. in Exod. Basi ad CaesariuÌ„ Hieron in prolog coÌ„tra Iouin Euseb l. 6. bis c. 36. Ambro. in Satyâ— Theodoret in Theophili vita 26 Euagr. l. 4. c. 35. Aug. ho. 26 ex quinquinquinta Basil ad CaesariuÌ„ pat Cyril Alex. Ep. ad Calosci Euseb Emiss hom 5. de paschate CoÌ„c Trid. sess 13. can 3. ConstaÌ„tieÌ„ BasilieÌ„s the gospell maketh no mention of any such meaninge Thirdly the Euangelistes and Saint Paule all in one manner rehearse the vvhole matter vvithout any mention of parable or figuratiue meaninge vvhich in other occasions they doe very often as sayenge Quae sunt per allegoriam dicta that is vvhich are spoken by an allegorie or figure c. And lastly all men in their last vvill testameÌ„t speake as plaine as they can possiblye and you knovv vvell this vvas our Sauiours last vvill and testament vvhich he lefte vnto the vvorld and to his spouse the Church the night before he departed this lyfe neyther could he or Saint Paul speake any thinge more plainly neyther did euer any Doctor holy father or interpreter of holy Scripture doubte of this propre sense of our Sauiours doctrine excepte he vvere an heretike For allbeit some one father or other hath sayd that vvhen our Sauiour gaue his bodye he gaue allso a figure of the same to his Apostles yeat neuer any interpreted these vvordes in that manner vvhich is that vve here especially speake of Novv that the thinge it selfe may be ministred and yeat a figure it hath no contradiction as for example if the Kinge of Englande shoulde cause a comedie to be made of his receauinge to the crovvne and him selfe vvoulde play the Kinges parte it is manifest that one and the selfe same person shoulde be both a figure and the thinge figured the representer and the thinge represented vvhich in this Sacramente is allso manifeste Christe his bodre vvhich is reallye presente representinge the same bodye that suffered for vs and in the shape of bread and vvine signifienge the nourishmeÌ„te of our soules by his grace The ceremonies of the Masse Vide loca infra citata to vvhich end this Sacramente is chiefely ordained M. You haue sayde enoughe of this pointe of the reall presence tell me novv the meaninge of the ceremonies vvhich are in the masse Diony Eccles Hierarch c. 3. Iacob in liturgia Cle. Rom. l. 8. CoÌ„stit Apostolic Cypr. de caena duÌ„i Aug. Ep. 57. ad Dardan et ep 59. ad Pan. Bas ad AmfilochiuÌ„ c. 27. et in liturgia Cyrill Hierosâ—l catehe 5. Chrysost ho. 14. ad Ephe ho. 5. ad Colo. et ho. 36 in 1. ad Cor. ho de AdaÌ„ Eua. ho. 24. in Act. Apost et ho. 4 de dei natura hom 24 41. in 1. ad Cor. ho. 51. ad populuÌ„ Antioch ho 17. ad Hebrae Canones vetere DuraÌ„ in ration c. and first vvhy this Sacramente is ministred to the people vnder one kinde D. It is ministred vnto the people in such sorte first because Christ him selfe did some tymes so minister the same as in Emaus as allso the Apostles after him did as it is to be seene acto 2.20.27 c. Secondly to auoyde many inconueniences and perills of sacrilege vvhich by ministringe vnder both kindes often hapned our Sauioure hauinge lefte no precepte heerein but onely to priestes and benige certaine that vvhole Christ is vnder eyther kinde in the Sacrament the masse although it be sayde in short space doth represent the most high and vvorthy matters that may be euen since Adam vnto the ende of the vvorlde M. Tell me hovv and in vvhat manner and that vvith breuity D. In this matter for that the Church hath determined nothing there be diuers opinions of Catholicke Doctors but the more common interpretation it this first that the confession vvhich the priest maketh before he goeth vp to the altare as allso the Kyrie cleysons do represent the vvorld fallen by Adames sinne and cryenge for mercy M. But then vvhat doth the Gloria in excelsi Epistle and Gospell signifie vvith the Creede D. The Gloria signifieth the natiuity of Christ for then vvas it first songen by the Angels The Epistle doth represent the ould testament vvhence oftentymes it is allso taken and particularly the comminge of Saint Iohn Baptist The Gospel signifieth the comminge and preachinge of Christ and because the levves alvvayes refused to beleeue in him the booke is caried to the other side of the altare to shevv that the Church Gospell vvas translated