where the noddiship trulie lighteth when the matter is tryed I am content to remit it to the readers iudgment And heere the verie first clause of his speech conteyneth no smal noddytisme to wit the bringing in for an instance the later east churches that haue fallen to schisme and heresie also namely about the holy Ghost as our aduersaries wil not deny wheras my assertion was that one head was acknowledged by aâ—l Catholike people of Christendome so as the instance of the late greeks since their fall doth make nothing to the purpose and that the ancient greeke Fathers did acknowledge the preeminencie of the Churche of Rome aboue all other Churches and consequentlie also of her gouernour and Pastor the Pope is most euident euen at this day by their owne wrytings yet extant as by Ignatius his Epistle ad Rom. Iren. at large aduersus haeres lib. 3. cap. 3. Athan. apolog 2. Epiphan lib. contr haereses 68. Basilius Epist. 52. Nazianz. carm de vita sua Chrysost. Ep. prima secunda ad Innocentium Greeke Fathers acknoleging â—he principalite superiorite of the RomaÌ„ Churche Cyril ep 10. ad Nestorium ad 11. clerum populum constantinop â—heodoret epist. ad Leonem Papam Zozâ—mâ—n lib. 3. hist. cap. 7. All which ten ancient greeke Fathers let any man read in the places cyted for that they are to long here to be set downe then let him iudge also of the second noddytisme when he sayth that the ancient Churche was vtterlie ignorant of this matter for if the ancient greeke Churche did acknowledge it how much more all the ancient latyn fathers and doctors And this may be sufficient for this first ioynder about vnitie oâ— fayth in Catholikes let vs passe to the second about the meanes to iudge or know the truth THAT PROTESTANTS not only haue no agreement or vnitie among them-selues in matters of religion but also are depriued of all sure meanes and certayne rule wherby to attayne therunto CAP. XIIII THERâ— foloweth in the Ward-word that not onlie the Protestants haue no present vnion in doctrine amoÌ„g them-selues In certaynty of beliefe among protestants See of this sup cap 4. num 10. but also that it is impossible that euer they can haue it which is as great a spiritual curse and malediction as may be and this for lack of due meanes to procure or establish the same And to this purpose the K. is hardlie posed by the warder about the certaintie of his fayth and religion to wit how he can haue any and by what infallible meanes he can be sure that he is in the right way and not in heresie and seing that he and his do make scriptures their onelie assurance this dependeth of the true sense he is asked and vrged whether he hath this certaintie of Scripture by his owne reading onlie and iudgment or by the credit of some ministers that enterpret the Scriptures in this or that sense vnto him and whether soeuer of these two wayes he stand vpoÌ„ it is shewed and proued to be vncertayne the first depending onelie of the owne iudgment the second of others who being priuate men hauing no more assurance of the holie Ghosts assistance then him-selfe The curse of vncertainty among protestants can be no more sure or infallible then the first wherof it foloweth that a protestant hath not nor can haue any further certainty of the truth of his religion then humaine iudgement or probabilitie can giue him which is a miserable curse and no fayth at all except he wil flie to his inward spirit and inspiration which is farre more vncertayne and perilous then the other all which is contrarie in the Catholyke Churche and in the way and meanes of tryal which she foloweth and consequentlie that the certayntie is farre different for securitie Furthermore the K. is sore vrged in this poynt of vncertaintie about disagreeing not onlie from the old Catholyke doctors of the primitiue Church but also from his owne the new yea those that first brought this later light of his religion yf it were light into the world as Luther zwinglius Caluyn and such others and he is demanded how he can dissent from theâ—e men as he doth in so great poynts of doctrine See before cap. 3.4.5 yet haue no certainty of beliefe seing these men were as learned as he and no lesse illuminated by his owne confession and yf they were deceyued in some poynts they might be in all c. From this curse of varietie and vncertaintie of doctryne and beliefe the warder passeth to an other no lesse markable brought in by change of old religion which is dissolution of lyfe and manners which protestants them-selues do not deny in their writings as before hath byn shewed The curse of euel lyfe Sup. cap 6. and yf they would the experience of England it selfe is sufficient for proofe and the warder declareth it by playne demonstration wherunto notwithstanding it seemed good to the K. to answere with deepe silence not so much as muttâ—ring any one thing for his defence so as heere I would thanke him as S. Augustine in a like case thanked Faustus the Manichie Aug. contra Faust. manich lib. 2. in fine Gratiae tibi agende sunt vbi nonnulla sic vidisti te refutare non posse vt ea malles summo silentio praeteriri Yow are to be thanked in that yow saw and therby confessed some things in my book to be so vnanswerable as yow choose rather to passe them ouer with deepe silence then to say any thing vnto them Then foloweth in the ward-word another treatise of temporal effectes by change of religion which he reduceth also to two heads First what was liklie to haue fallen out if this change of religion had not bene made in her Ma ties tyme and then what hath ensued vpon the said change and for the first he handleth eyght poyntes liklie to haue folowed 1. The strength and felicitie her Ma tie should haue had by all liklihood through the vnion of her subiectes 2. The securitie therof ensuing 3. Maryage and noble yssue of her Ma ties body 4. The establishment of succession 5. Vnion with Rome and sea Apostolyke 6. Ancient leagues with forayne Princes mainteyned 7. much bloody warre in our neighbors kingdomes had byn auoyded 8. diuers important damages and peryls at home by aâ—l liklihood had neuer rysen all which great felicities hauing beene eyther lost by change of religion or greatlie weakned and put in daunger he sheweth further that the contrarie effectes of curses calamities haue or may ensue therby and hauing layd them foorth he finally concludeth thus All these inconueniences and calamities had byn auoyded Pag. 1â— 4 or the most of them if chaÌ„ge of Religion in England had not byn made so that the innumerable benedâ—ctâ—ons which this poore man would neads threape vpon vs by that change do come to be in effect
Encounter which is this that S ir F. H. being entred into a serious contemplation in the height of his careful watch ouer England and thinking to imitate perhaps herin the spirit of some hidden prophet whome he desired to resemble estemed it not only expedient but incident also to the vigilancy of the office of a general watchman taken vpon him by his owne election not by any mans coÌ„mission to forwarne the people not only of great and mighty fayned daungers hanging ouer them from Catholikes but also of innumerable new deuised blessings benefits and benedictions abounding among them and flowing to them daylie by the fortunate chaunge of ould religion into Protestancy The subiect of S F. book breaking forth into these words of fervour Pap. 2. Yf I should take vpon me to enter into the enumeration of all the beneâ—its and blessings that from the Almightie haue byn powred vpon this litle Isle of England c. And herevpon coÌ„cludeth that seing they had gotten so greatly already by the bargaine they should be merry and go forward and neuer thinke of returne c. and this was the beginning of his watch-word To which the Warder thinking it expedient to oppose himselfe VVard vvord taketh vp S. F. for a false and flattering Prophet by these wordes of Esay Esay 3. my people they that say thou art blessed are those that deceiue thee shewing further the great inconueniences hurts daungers damages and pernitious effects of such flattering tongues in common wealthes that himselfe doth contradict himselfe in this very poynt soone after talking nothing els but of feares frights and terrours by daungers and miseries imminent to our countrey A brag of blessings examined without specifying or setting downe to the coÌ„trary any one particular blessing at all comen hitherto to the realme or like to come by their new gospel but only feeding them with those general fayre words of fleering adulation which the warder holding for fond and contemptible in so manifest and important a matter reiecteth them without further answere And then passing on to the poynt it selfe more in particuler he reduceth all benefits and blessings that haue happened to England or can happeÌ„ vnto two general heads or branches that is spiritual touching religion and temporal concerning the common wealth and in both these kinds he sheweth by many weightie arguments that not blessings but cursings not benefits but calamityes haue are lyke to fal vpon our couÌ„try by this fatal vnfortunate change of Religion giuing manifest examples in both sortes and concludeth with a brief repetition of all and this is the summe of the warders answere to this first Encounter of imagined blessings But vpon this poynt replyeth now agayne the K. in this his Apology or defence A vayne reply by the Knight which vpon iust causes as yow shal see I haue termed a VVast-word and first of all he maketh a solemne florish by detesting all flattery and alleageth diuers sentences of sundry Poëts and Philosophers in despraise of flattery and then addeth that there is farre greater flattery in Rome to the Pope then he vseth in this place and further that there was no contradiction betwixt his words of present daungers now imminent to England and of former blessings by their ghospel receyued so as though England be not blessed at the present yet hath it byn heretofore and then letting passe all that euer the warder hath said in the examination of the foresaid two heads of spiritual teÌ„poral blessings he bringeth in ten new benedictions freshly framed out of the forge of his owne imagination to the supply of his former want assuring vs that they are proper fruits of his new ghospel ghospellers Ten nevv fresh blessings And that they haue ensued by the former change of religion which blessings benedictions he auoweth to be vnity of doctrine Liberty of reading Scriptures in vulgar languages Publique prayer in English exercise of good works more then beâ—ore freedome from persecution deliuerance from intolerable exactions long peace power in forrayne countryes wealth of the land multitude of subiects seuenfold increased since the beginning of this change of religion This is the summe of his Apologie to this Encounter VVarn-vvoâ—e replyeth our which cometh agayne the warneâ— now who before was only a warder as yow haue heard and besyds his wards warneth also the watchmaÌ„ of his wants in this his VVast-word shewing first that all his defence is but verbal and impertinent speach and consequently iustly termed by him a VVast-word for that to flatter and detest I flattery at one tyme is no defence or iust excuse of flattery but rather folly and impudency ioyned to flattery and that it litle easeth him or helpeth his cause if there should be so great flattery in Rome as he sayth seing that this iustifieth not nor authorizeth any flattery vsed by him in England that it is vayne and ridiculous to vaunt of blessings past and not present seing the present and future is that which importeth most and not that which is past and more ridiculous for that if they were true blessings which are past they were brought in and lefte by the old Catholique religion and if they be not now present it is for that the new religion hath lost them that the ten new felicityes now freshly deuised and brought in by the K. are neyther true in themselues nor in the nature of blessing but rather quite contrarie and others nothing pertinent to the purpose and diuers of them of no consideration at all but rather fond and contemptible mockeryes And finally that S r. F. his running out of the feild The Knight flyeth the true coÌ„bate and flying from all the wayes of tryal offred by the warder both about Spiritual and temporal blessings and cursings is a playne argument that he dareth not ioyne really and substantially in the combat but only to florish for fashion sake and to make a shew of skyrmishing in the ayer for holding vp his credit with the bare name of a new Apologie keeping himselfe warily notwithstaÌ„ding within his owne listes only and farre of from the true Encounter and running now and then when he is sore pressed behind the cloath of state that is to say protecting himselfe with the name authority of her Ma tie and of the present gouernment where all other arguments fayle him for his defence and this in general is the summe of all this Encounter with the K. Now must we come to examine what his Minister champion or martial procter O. E. hath brought in his supply coming foorth after the other And first in general I must say in his prayse and commendation The argumeÌ„t and summe of O. E. his â—nsvvere that he is farre more impertinent impudent and impotent in his wryting rayling then is the K. or any other perhaps that euer took pen in hand for hauing taken the visard of O. E.
not be called a blessing of the land but of some part within the land And againe yf it be passiue only and enioyned by them-selues and not actiue so as they procure nor yeild not the same freedome to others where they may then is it absurdly called a blessing or benediction for that theeues also and the worst men of the world among them-selues or to others of their crew do not vse persecution Matth. 12. Marc. 3. Luc. 11. nay diuels also as Christ signifieth do not fight one against another and yet that this is not true in protestants but that they persecute one another also where they fal to difference of opinions is a thing so euident as needeth no proof and the examples alleadged by me before out of all the sects of Germany Switzerland and other countreys KeÌ„nit epist. ad Io. Georg. Elect. Brandeburg and namely that out of Kemnitius do euidently coÌ„uince yt with infinite proofes for that none of them getting the vpper hand in any place doth permit the other sect be yt neuer so brotherly to subsist with yt but dryueth them out euen the ridged Lutherans the soft and these the other wheresoeuer they preuayle as the Puritans also in Geneua HollaÌ„d Scotland France do not suffer any one congregation of softer Caluinists or English ProtestaÌ„ts to stand with them and on the contrary side whether our English protestants haue suffered their brethren Puritans to liue in England without persecution or noe or whether they haue had halcyon or halter dayes One side of protestants doth persecute the other these later yeares past vnder Protestants the hanging of Penry and other of thesame ghospel may testifie as also the many and greeuous complaints wrytten by them-selues published in print Lib. 2. of dangerous positions cap. 10. and registred these later dayes by the ProtestaÌ„ts in their foresaid bookes where the Puritanes cry out say among other things This land is sore troubled with persecution there iâ— no place nor being for a faythful Minister of the word our blood cryeth for reuenge an inquisition much like that of Spayne is among vs o lamentable case o heynoâ—â— impietie Ministers are in worse sorte oppressed now then they were by the Papists in Q. Maries tyme Complaâ—â—â— of persecutioÌ„ by Puritanes besydes whorish impudency halter axe bands scourging racking our Bishops haue nothing to desend themselues withal the Clinke Gatehouse white Lyâ—n and the Fleâ—â—e are their onlie arguments If I say Hieremy Ezechiel c. were aliue agayne they would be sent to the Marshalsey Lo good reader these piteous complaynts and many more do make and poure out one sort of ghospellers against the other when their owne ghospel brethreÌ„ cry out so much of persecution what may Catholikes do and how is this then a peculiar blessing of Protestants to be free from persecuting yet harken to our knight how he freeth all from suffring at their hands not onlie those of their owne religion Pag. 21. Sir F. proueth his ovvn men to be vvolues but also of ours The wolfe sayth he persecuteth the lambe not the lambe the wolfe Wel what of this this is a certayne sentence true in it selfe but proueth nothing for your sense nay rather I might inferre against yow thus Yow do persecute greuiouslie by your owne brethrens testimony them that be lambes by their profession Ergo yow are wolues by your owne sentence but harken yet further what he sayth also very confidentlie euen of Catholikes Freedome from persecution in England VVastvvord Pag. 21. Yow shal sayth he neuer be able to proue so farre as I could euer learne that any one eyther Priest or lay man learned or vnlearned hath in thiâ— land for these fortie yeares byn put to death only for being of a contrarie religion Heer I doubt not but all England wil cry shame to this shameful and shameles lack of shame for what chyld in England is so ignorant of thinges thaâ— passe as he knoweth not this to be a notorious falshood hauing hard of aboue a hundred Priests put to death for being Priests See tvvo Apologyes for the Catholikes vvith other treatises and for being ordeyned to that function beyond the seas and for defending the fayth belonging to the function as by diuerse treatises written of this matter doth appeare And if this were not so of the killing of so many men for only religions sake yet is there no persecution but death wil Syr F. say that his Protestants do not persecute for that they kil not all that be different from them in religion Persecution against Catholikes doth he not heare and see and know the numbers of them that be daylie apprehended imprisoned arraigned and condemned in their goods and liberties for standing in their fathers fayth and resisting protestants nouelties and innouations is this no persecution Is this the blessed freedome which protestants ghospel hath brought in Surelie I wil end and shut vp this absurditie with those wordes of S. Augustine against Iulian the famous heretike Aug. contr Iul. lib. 1. c. 7. Si nesciens hoc dixisti cur non miseram respuis imperitiam si sciens cur non sacrilegam deponis audaciam If thow hast said this by ignorance why dost thow not reiect thy miserable vnskilfulnes if wittinglie why doest thou not leaue of so impious audacitie and so much of this OF THE OTHER FIVE imagined blessings that remayne to wit deliuerance from exactions long peace power in forrayne countryes wealth of the land and multitude of subiects increased seauenfold CAP. XI BESYDES the blessings hitherto recyted which haue byn such and so goodlie as yow haue heard discussed our knight to make vp the number of ten hath added fyue more to wit Deliuerance from intolerable exactioÌ„s Long peace at home Great power abroad in forrayne countryes VVealth great riches increased with in the land And finaly great multitude of subiects seauenfold increased aboue that they were at her Maiesties entrance Which blessings though the very propounding of them to English eares be so ridiculous as they need litle examination and much lesse coÌ„futatioÌ„ yet for honoring of our knight that is the propounder I shal be forced to say a word or two of each of theÌ„ aduertising the reader first which yet he wil of himself obserue A seditious shift of syr F. especiallie by the last words of this enumeration that the knight playeth notably the part of Scogan in the treatie of these blessings running behynd the cloath of state as often I haue warned before and shal be forced more often hereafter and so conioyning her Maiesties gouernment with his ghospel and change of religion in the prayse and disprayse of that which hath ensued as if they could not possibly be seuered in the effectes of blessings and cursings therof proceeding which poynt I hold to be most false and flattering assuring my selfe presuming also that any man of iudgement
te prolatam in qua non author esse debes sed custos non institutor sed sectator non ducens sed sequens c. This pawne or pledge is a thing geuen yow in credit and not inuented by yow a thing which yow haue receyued and not deuised a matter not of wit but of doctrine not of pryuate vsurpation but of publyke tradition a thing brought downe vnto yow not brought forth first by yow a thing wherof yow must not be author but keep only not the fownder but a follower not a leader but one that is led Thus sayth he of the rule of faith in his tyme which rule also serueth vs no lesse at this day against all sorte of protestants then it did them at that tyme against their aduersaryes but rather much more for that our prescription of this rule is by many hundred yeares elder then theirs was and so this shal suffise about this matter of the Ecclesiastical rule of fayth what yt was and what the auncient Fathers did thinke and esteeme therof and now we wil examine a litle what styrre the minister maketh about his goodly rule of the present particular Churche of England OF THE ENGLISH rule of beliefe set downe by O. E. And what substaÌ„ce or certaintie it hath how they doo vse it for excluding Puritanes other Protostantes and of diuers shameful shifts of O. E. CAP. XVI NOTHING is more true in that kynd then the saying of the philosopher A â—ift lib. 1. Phis. Contraria iuxta se posita clarius elucescunt That contraryes being layd togeather do make each other better seene and vnderstood as a ragged garment layd by another that is fayre and pretious maketh the ragges and patches more euident and contemtible and euen so this ridiculous new deuised rule of O. E. if we compare it with the former auncient rule commended vnto vs by the old holie fathers we shal see more perspicuously the vanitie therof for that he sayth Pag. 19. As for our selues that is the Protestants of England all of vs professe the doctrine of Iesus Christ according to that rule that was established by the common consent of England and whosoeuer doth digresse from this is not of our societie c. But here I would aske him what rule this is and in what yeare it was established by whom and how many and what authoritie they had to establish or to make any new rule from the old receyued before in matters of religion See the statutis anno Henr. 8.25 c. 14. an 26. cap. 1. an 27. c. 15 19. an 31. ca. 14. an 34. 35. cap 1. for yf he speake of K. Henry the 8. his dayes when the first chaunges beganne and when diuers new rules were set downe in parlament with this expresse commendation that they were taken out of the pure and syncere only woord of God I doo not think that O. E. wil admit them or stand vnto them though Iohn Fox do hold all that tyme of K. Henrie his mutations after his breach with the Churche of Rome for the tyme of the ghospel and so doth terme it euery where In K. Edward dayes also he being head of the Churche An 1. Ed c. 1.2 11. an 2. 3. cap. 1.21.23 though but 9. yeares old there was two or three new rules made and altered about matters of religion and their communion book all pretended out of the word of God with reuocation of that which K. Henry the Father and his Parlaments out of the same woord had appoynted before which rule also vnder K. Edward I do not know whether our ProtestaÌ„ts wil allow in all poyntes now but sure I am our Puritanes do not nor wil not as appeareth by theire owne bookes what assurance then is there in this mutable and controuerted rule of so fewe yeares in age But the most important question is who and what men and by what authoritie they made this rule The Warder knew no other when he writ but the Lords of the ParlameÌ„t and so called it parlament religion wherwith O. E. is very angry Pag. 19. and sayth where he calleth our religion parlament religion he speaketh like himselfe that is falsly and slaunderously for albeit the same be receyued by authoritie of the Prince state yet is it Christs reâ—igion and not the Princes Soone spoken but how doth he proue it here is styl that old shifte of petiâ—io principij hissed out by learned men which consisteth in setting downe that for a principle which most needeth proof as heere where our minister wil needs haue his religion to be Christs religion whether we wil or no and that it was but receyued and promulgated only by the parlament but then must I aske him agayne what authoritie besydes the parlament hath determyned it to be Christs religion as also that the Puritans religion is not Christs religion notwithstanding they pretend Christ and his Apostles no lesse then doth the protestant and then if we fynd that the only authoritie that defyneth this matter is the Parlament allowing the one and condemning the other for that scriptures of themselues can not do it quia actiones sunt suppositorum as a litle after he vrgeth and then must needs the credit truth of English religion depend of the parlament and therof worthelie be called Parlament religion But harken good reader what an example he hath found to auoyd An example making against himself that his religion may not be called Parlament religion The Emperors Gratian Valentinian and Theodâ—sius decreed sayth he that all people of their gouernment should hold the doctryne of Peter the Apostle Pag. 19. taught by Damasus bishop of Rome and Peter bishop of â—lexandria that they should beleeue one God and three persons yet I hope this Noddy wil not cal the fayth of the Trinitie an imperial fayth See this haÌ„dled more largely before in the annâ—t vpon the letter of O. â— to the reader c. Yes surelie Syr Noddy-maker I would cal and proue it so if the case were like that is if these three Emperors had determined this fayth as of theÌ„selues and by their imperial authoritie and that it had byn a different beliefe from the rule of fayth receyued before throughout Christendome as your parlament religioÌ„ was and is hauing no other ecclesiastical Authoritie â—or her establishment but only the authoritie of your Prince and parlament which defyned it to be trew religion and coÌ„forme to the word of God and determined that the other which was there before in vse to wit the Catholike to be opposite and contrarie to thesaid word and therfore to be abolished so as the allowance of the one and reprobation of the other proceeded from the parlament But the proceeding of the foresaid three Emperors in this their alleaged decree was farre otherwise which O.E. if he had had any more wit then a Noddy would neuer
the first that if this woodcock or any of his crew can shew any one noueltie as an article of fayth in our religion which was not beleeued in the Apostles tyme and in all ages since by the professors of the Catholike fayth eyther explicite or implicite as diuines terme it we shal yeild in all the rest for that we hold the foresaid rule of fayth deliuered by the Apostles to haue byn ful and perfect and that whatsoeuer poynt of fayth hath byn determined of since by general councels confirmed by Popes hath byn no new thing but explication only of that which was before deliuered by the Apostles albeit not so expreslie knowne to all In the second poynt also we hold that if O.E. or his mates can shewe any one heresie taken for an heresie by the general Churche since Christs tyme vnto Luthers or after to be holden by vs truely and in the same sense wherin it was condemned for an heresy and holden by those heretykes if this I say can be truly shewed and not as this vice cometh in with fustian-apes for veluet telling vs a tale of the Coliâ—ridians that offred Sacrifice to the Virgin Mary and other like from whom he cannot deny but that we differ most manifestly though his forehead be neuer so hard If this I say can be prooued that any one heresy is truely among vs and not the similitude only or shadow therof then wil we aske no further proof of any thing against vs for that we hold absolutely that eyther all or none is trew in our religion but on the contrary syde we shal shewe and demonstrate most clearely that they hold many old condemned heresies in the self same sense wordes and meaning wherin they were condemned by the vniuersal Churche held by those heretikes And this is the true difference betweene vs and them to wit that they obiect to vs shadowes and resemblances of heresyes but we conuince them of true heresy in deed IT IS FVRTHER shewed by diuers cleare examples that O. E. and his fellowes do playnly dispayre of all certayne meane or rule to try the truth among them-selues or with vs. CAP. XVII NOtwithstanding that sufficient hath byn said before in diuers chapters of this first encounter to shew that Protestants haue no sure rule or certayne meanes at all for agreement in matters of Religion Sup. cap 3.4 5.15 16. or for consent or assurance therin yet for so much as this is a most principal poynt to be wel vnderstood deeply pondered by euery man that loueth his eternal lyfe and saluation I haue thought good to treat one poynt more in this chapter which is the confession of our aduersaries them-selues in this behalfe though not in playne words yet in manifest deedes which are not nor ought to be of lesse authoritie then wordes And first of all I wil shewe this by their passing ouer without answere this whole matter being the most principal of all this first encounter when the warder vrgeth them most earnestlie in the poynt it selfe and both of them I meane both the K t. first the minister after him do answere directlie no one woord vnto the whole demonstration which is a playne confession that they cannot answere it but yet to shewe it more euidently and to conuince them in this place I wil repeate agayne what the warder said before I would aske S. F. sayth he or any such man as he is Pag. 4. that determineth so resolutely that his only religion among so many others as are extant at this day is true and all others false wheron doth he ground his certaintie Tvvo vvayes of tryal proposed Two onely meanes can S. F. haue to guyde himselfe in this case first that he hath receaued this doctrine of such or such persons preachers ministers or doctors whose learning and knowledge in this behalfe he trusteth absolutely and then is his whole fayth buylded vpon the credit of man as is euident and consequently is nothing worth nor no fayth at all The other way is that he beleeueth it for that it is founded in Scripture but this way to S. F. must needs be as vncertayne as the other yf not more for that to be sure that it is soundly grouÌ„ded vpon Scripture he must first read himselfe his whole beleefe expresly in Scriptures which is much for a man of S.F. occupation to do and then he must be able to iudge of many other poyntes belonging to the same as namely that the book is surely Scrâ—pture that he readeth And then that the translation which he vseth is trulie made out of the learned tongues Hebrew Greeke and Latâ—n And lastly he must be sure of the true sense and exposition which also are hard matters for a man of S. F. learning and much more for others that know lesse then he Yea and when all is done yf he had all these helpes needful for such a matter as he hath not yet were it but a priuate maÌ„nes opinioÌ„ consequently his fayth should be grounded but vpon his owne particuler iudgmeÌ„t which maketh no fayth at all but opinion only as often hath byn sayd for that fayth must haue Gods expresse authoritie for her foundation So that to conclude the first blessing which S. F. in particular thinketh to haue receaued by this change of his religion is in effect that whereas before when he beleeued the Catholyke and vniuersal fayth of Christendome deliuered vnto him by the vniuersal Churche as founded on Scripture which Churche Christ his Apostles gaue him expresse commission to credit his beleef was properly fayth founded vpon a rock that could not fayle now hauing left that fortresse cast him-self into the waues of new opinions he hath nothing certayne at all but so much as he list to chose of him-self or of other mennes opinions which choise is properly called heresie for that the word heresy in Greek as all learned men know signifieth nothing els but a certayne election and choise in matters of Religion to wit when a man leauing the commoÌ„ coÌ„sent of the general Churche â—â— ooseth only to follow that which his owne priuate iudgment induceth him vnto And to make this more playne how all these people haue no other rule of beleef A playne demonstration against sir F. but only what their owne fancy leadeth them vnto I aske S. F. not of any Catholyke Doctor nor of any ancient Father as S. Augustine S. Ierom or the rest whom easely he would coÌ„temne but rather of his owne Doctors Martyn Luther Iohn Caluin Theodore Bâ—za such others whom he supposeth to haue byn seruants of God and indued with his holy spirit all the world knoweth that they were more learned then S. F. yet why should he beleeue his owne iudgement more then theirs in pointes of fayth wherin they differ from him as Luther about the real presence and the number and forme of Sacraments and many other points
deceyts day and night geuing them-selues ouer to lustes of the flesh being spotted with adulteries and besydes all this most of them did hault in the articles of their fayth And after this he cometh to talk of religious orders in lyke sorte Religious men also corrupted and principally of those that hauing no possessions liued by almes and were most corrupted and set on by wicliffe against those that had possessions of whome WalsinghaÌ„ sayth suae professionis immemâ—res c. possessionatis inuidentes c. being vnmyndful of their profession and enuying such of other religious orders as had possessions in tantum illam veritatis professionem suam maculabant vt in dâ—ebus illis c. They did spot so farre foorth their profession of truth as in those dayes yt was in euery mÌ„anes mouth that this is a Fryar ergo a lyar This is the discourse of WalsinghaÌ„ wherin yow see first that he speaketh not of all fryars nor against the profession it selfe of fryars which he sayth was the profession of truthe but against such as being forgetful therof and brought â—o maligne and enuie other orders that had possessions which was the art and doctrine of Wicliffe became lyars so as these were S r. F. his fryars and not of S. Francis as before I noted and when he telleth their faults he vttereth the shame of his new ghospel Fox in Calend 2. lan which begane in England by VVicliffe as Fox doth testifie who maketh this first prophet of theirs a Saynt and kalender Martyr Fox monumeÌ„t Pag. 421. though he died in his bed at his benefice in Lincolneshire as Fox denyeth not yet such was his talent in making martyrs And besydes this he discouereth to the Reader to much false dealing in that amoÌ„g all the faultes of Bishops nobilitie comonaltie and religious orders touched seuerally as yow haue heard by his author walsingham he culled out only the lying of Fryars Syr F. taken in false dealing and those not of ours but of his fryars who were made lyars not by their owne institution or by our religion but by the principles of Wiclifs Doctrine which S.F. acknowledgeth I think for his Consider then the mannes wit in alleaging this exaÌ„ple and his truth in handling the same And by this one iudge of the rest though there wil not want other occasions after to coÌ„template also the same much more And hitherto now we haue talked of the general charge of lying and falshood layd to S r. Francis and how he hath sought to auoyd the same by recharging vs and some of ours againe with like fault which as if they were true and could be verified they deliuer not him of his fault so being found also to be false they double his former error and make him more culpable to which effect and for iustifying more the charge layd vpon him of bould false assertions we are now to examine some other particulars of lyke qualitie For more clearer performance wherof I shal set downe some lynes of the Warder which conteyne the first controuersie or charge Thus then he wrote at that tyme. But before S.F. cometh to the matter that is VVardvvord Pag. 1â— to set downe those absurd principles of ours he maketh for his preface a certayne poetical descrâ—ption of the darke cloudy and mistie state of things in Queene Maries tyme in these words It is not vnknown sayth he to many yet liuing neyther can it be altogether hidden from the yonger sort that lyâ—ed with them what a darke mistie cloude of ignorance which brought in popish Idolatrie Deuised darknes and all manner of superstition did ouer shade the whole land c. And againe after In these darke cloudy dayes least the sunshine of knowledge should disperse the mistes of ignorance and geue light to the dimme of sight c. Doth it not seeme that this graue geÌ„tleman describeth the lake of Auernus in Italie or some foggie marsh in England or some smokie kitchen or woodhouse of his owne without a window when he speaketh of our famons country in sormer tymes for aboue a thousand yeares the state of England and the Princes people nobilitie and learned men therof had continued in that Egyptian or rather Cymerian darknes which this gentleman describeth vnder clouds mistes and shadowes vntil his new sunneshine doctors came to inlighten the same And it was accompted then as wyse learned holy valiant noble and florishing a kingdome aswel for religion as otherwise as France Italie Spayne and other reading the scriptures in English could not iudge whether matters of doctrine and religion taught them by their Prelats were true or no as though now they could do it by english reading and that for this cause and for lack of Scriptures in English a number of lving miracles were beleeued and in steed of Christs blood the blood of a duck was worshipped as the blood of Hales was playnly proued to be Syr Francis posed in dicerning a duckes blood from other and openly shewed at Paules crosse in K. Hen. dayes which yet I would aske our Kâ— how a ducks blood could be discerned froÌ„ other blood after so many yeares All this I say and many other such manifest vanities See aftervvard cap. 6. vvhat O. E vvryteth also of this matter and knowne vntruthes as that Bishops in Q. Maries tyme did not preach nor others for them except certayne strawbery sermons of â—â—otting fryars and the lyke These bold assertions I say and contumelious irrisions being knowne to be false aswel by aâ—l that are yet liuing and sawe those tymes as by the books of Homelies and sermons yet extant I meane not to stand vpon the answering in this place but to passe ouer to matter of more substance and to consider of an example or two of ignorance in Q Maries tyme and before For this Kâ— for a ful and irrefragable proof that all was ignorance among Catholykes before the light oâ— Luthers Gospel began to shine VVastvvord Pag. 32. The storie of D Bassinet a â— frenche Apostata Fryar he bringeth vs the only examplâ— as he sayth of D. Bassinet â— man of great learning and autâ—oritie in France whâ— confessed his owne ignoraÌ„ce vntil he fel to read the Scriptures though he had byn a Iudge vpon heretiks beforeâ— Look heere gentle reader the important proof that he alleageth for his purpose cyting only Iohn Fox his Acts and Monuments in the Margent Fox edit ver Pag. 862. but neyther he nor Fox do alleage any one Author where we may read the storie for this is also Fox his shift among others wheÌ„ he meaneth notorious treacherie and yf the whole narration of this Bassinet confessing himself to be ignorant before he fel into the new ghospel were true what authoritie or credit may the saying of an Apostata Fryar fallen into heresy haue against his former state and condition is it maruaile yf he say that he was in ignorance
exaÌ„ples of pardons abused by Catholyks as S.F. alleageth and both of them false with a notorious imposture about the poysoning of K. Iohn Cap. 15. The speech of the Warder is defended where he calleth the way of saluation by only faith the coÌ„mon cart-way of protestaÌ„ts The truth of which doctrine is examined c. 16. The warning and admonition about this second Encounter first to S. F. Hastings then to O.E. his chaplain and champion Cap. 17. An addition by the publisher of this book wherin he sheweth first a Reason why these two EncouÌ„ters go alone then the dâ—fference he findeth in the wryters and their wrytings thirdly how a man may vse this which heer is sayd to the decisioÌ„ of any coÌ„trouersy of our tyme. Cap. 18. THE SECOND TABLE OF THE CHEIF CONTROVERSIES HANDLED IN THESE two Encounters In the first Encounter WHo are properly Catholyks and who heretyks by the old lawes of Cath. Christian Emperors and whether the lawes made against heretyks by these Emperors do touch protestants or Papists at this day in England annotat vpon the epist. of O.E. cap. 2. num 2. How a man may make a most cleere and euident deduction of Cath. Religion by the forsaid Emperial lawes if no other proof were and whether euer any Christian were punishable before our tymes for sticking to the Pope of Rome in Religion ibid. num 12.13.27.28 c. How old Christian Emperors did promulgate lawes about Religion against the transgressors therof how different a thing it was from that which ProtestaÌ„t Princes are taught to do at this day Ibid. What was the old rule of faith so much esteemed and talked of amoÌ„g the auncieÌ„t fathers how Cathol heretyks may easily euidently be tryed by thesame Cap. 15. Whether the English-parlament rule of faith set downe by O.E. be sufficient to discerne Catholyks from heretiks and whether a paâ—lament can make any rule of faith Cap. 16. num 1.2 c. Whether Canonists do cal the Pope God or no and how false S. Francis and his Chaplayne are found in this point Cap. 2. 3. Enc. 2. cap. 3. num 10.11.12 c. In what sense a creature may be called God and how ConstaÌ„tine the great did cal Pope Siluester so Cap. 2. 3. What wonderful reuerend opinion the auncient Fathers had of the high and diuine power giuen to Priests vpon earth especially to the highest Priest Ibid. Whether protestants haue vnion among them or any meane to make vnion or to find out certainty in matters of faith cap. 4. num 10. Item cap. 5.6.14.15.16.17 What Synods and Councels conferences conuenticles and other meetings protestants haue had throughout the world to procure some shew of vnion but eueâ— haue departed more disagreeing then before Cap. 4. num 12.13 Whether Lutherans and Caluinists may any way be said to be brethreÌ„ or of one Churche as both S. F. Iohn Fox do hold cap. 3 4.5 c. Whether Zwinglians and Caluinists and other Sacramentary Protestans be truly heretiks according to the iudgment and sentence of Martyn Luther and what blessing he giueth them as to bastard children ca. 5. n. 1.2.3 c. Whether English protestants and Puritans do agree in Iesus Christ crucified as S. F. saith or may be accompted true brethreÌ„ of one Churche ca. 6. 10 n. 8. c. 12. n. 6. Whether liberty for all vnlearned to read scriptures in English without difference or restraint be a blessing or a curse profitable or hurtful to the people ca. 8. Enc. 2. c. 3. Whether publyke seruice in English be a hurt or benefit to all sort of people cap. 8. num 7. cap. 9. Whether and how the merits of holy men may stand with merits satisfaction of Christ. Cap. 9. num 7.8.9 Whether aboundance of good works be a peculiar blessing of Protestants or no as S. F. defendeth cap. 10. n. 2.3 4.5 cap. 17. 18. Whether English nobility and commonalty be richer at this day then in old tyme by change of religion cap. 11. num 7.8.9 c. Whether it be a special grace and blessed nature of Protestants to persecute no man for religion Cap. 10. Whether freedome from exactions long peace great power in other countreys great welth of the land and more aboundant multiplying of children then before be special benefits and benedictions brought into England by change of Religion Cap. 11. Whether the vniuersal Churche may be said properly to teach vs or no which O. E. denieth Cap. 11. num 12. Whether the sacrifice of the masse be a new inuention or no and whether the number of 7. Sacraments were not agreed on before the late Councel of Trent as O.E. affirmeth Cap. 13. num 7.8.9.10 c. How farre Catholyke men do depeÌ„d of the Pope for the certainty of their religioÌ„ Ca. 16. n. 17.18.19 Enc. 2. c. 13. n. 16. Whether any one new or old heresy can be prooued truly to be in the doctrine of Papists at this day and how that there be many properly and formally held by Protestants Cap. 16. num 20. What differences of doctrine or opinions may be among Cath. men without heresy or breach of the Rule of faith according to the auncient Fathers Cap. 16. num 6. How coÌ„temptuously the Protestants do speak not only of the old Fathers but also of their owne wryters when they make against them Cap. 17. num 17. Whether temporal blessings entred into England and other countreys round about with the new ghospel and change of the old religion Cap. 12. 13.14 18. How many and how great Inconueniences in matters of State otherwyse haue ensued in England by change of Religion since K. Henry the 8. his departure from the vnion of the Roman Churche Cap. 17. 18. In the second Encounter Whether there were more darknesse ignoraÌ„ce in Q. Maryes tyme former ages then now whether Protestants be better learned then Catholyks Cap. 2. num 18.19 cap. 3.4 6. Whether fryars weâ—e braue lyars in K. Richard 2. his tyme as S.F. saith and what manner of fryars they were to wit corrupted by Wickliffe Cap. 2. num 11. Whether scripture were read generally in English in S. Bede his tyme or no Cap. 3. num 5.6 c. Whether Iohn Husse and Martyn Luther offered disputation to Catholyks or no and whether they were of one and thesame religion or that any of them did agree fully with S. Francis and O. E. in their religion now professed Cap. 3. 4. Whether the Catholyks or Hugonote ministers in the conference at Poysy in France anno Domini 1561. had the better Cap 4. num 14. Whether Catholyks did euer hold it for heresy to read scriptures in English or haue euer put men or women to death for that fact only Cap. 4. 5. 6. num 12. 15. cap. 9. num 3. Whether the auncient Fathers did vse to pray to Saints and
Angels or no Cap. 6. num 6. num 8. Whether the name of Lucifugi scripturarum or scripture-battes vsed by Tertullian do properly agree to protestants or Catholyks Cap. 6. num 24.25.26 c. Whether ignorance be held by Catholyks to be the mother of deuotion Cap. 7. num 1.2 c. Whether ignorance in some points coÌ„cerning religion may in some people be comendable and meritorious as S. Hilary saith or no ibid cap. 8. num 3. Whether the distinction of fides implicita and explicita be a true necessary distinction for the saluation of many mennes soules which caÌ„not possibly be saued wiâ—hout the vse thereof Cap 7. num 6. Whether it be true that Catholyks teach that laymen must not medle in matters of Religion and how farre they are to medle Cap. â— Why the Cath. Churche doth vse Index expurgatorius against the corruption of heretyks and their books how it must be vsed and what great good ensueth therof Cap. 9. num 23.24 c. Whether S. Thomas of Canterbury were a true martyr and of his miracles Cap. 10. 11. Whether his case were lyke the case of S. Iohn Bapt. with his King or of S. Ambrose with his Emperor or no Cap. 10. Whether the miracles wrought by S. Thomas of Canterbury after his death were true miracles and did proue him a Saint or no. Cap. 11. Which is the better spirit and more conforme to scripture and the old fathers to beleeue easily miracles or to discredit them cap. 11. num 19. How true saints may be knowen and whether Fox-made saincts or Pope-made Saints as S.F. calleth them are more substantially Canonized Cap. 11. num 15.16 c. Whether Catholyks do hold that the Pope or any comming from him is to be obeyed though he commauÌ„d blasphemies Cap. 12. 13. Whether the merits and sufferings of Saints may be lawfully mentioned in our prayers as motiues to mooue God with all Cap. 12. Whether no man may say to the Pope vvhy do yovv so though he lead infinite soules to hel as O. E. cauilleth Cap. 13. num 17.18 c. Whether Catholyks do vse the Popes pardons for their cheefest remedies against all sort of sinnes as heretyks do accuse them Cap. 14. In what degree or sense pardons are auaileable to Christians ibid. num 8. cap. 15. num 1.2.3 c. Whether Iames Clement that slue the last K. of France were absolued for the fact before the committing therof Cap. 15. Whether it be true that K. Iohn of England was poysoned by a monk or that the monk was absolued for the same before he comitted the fact as Iohn Fox and S.F. do hold cap. 15. num 4.5 c. Whether the doctrine of saluation by only faith be a common cartway to hel for all libertines or no cap. 16. The third and fourth Tables as wel of shiftes and wilful falsifications by Syr Francis and O. E. as of the principal matters conteyned in these two Encounters are to be seene in the end of the book AN ANSVVER TO A CERTAYNE VAYNE AND ARROGANT EPISTLE OF O. E. minister vnto N. D. author of the Ward-word SMall contentment geÌ„tle reader can any Christian modest man take that hauing to handle a graue serious cause seeth himselfe drawne or rather driuen from thesame to contention of wordes by the insolencie and importunitie of his quarrelling aduersarie 2. Tim. 2. which teÌ„deth to nothing as the Apostle also noteth but to the subuersion of the hearer and yet when we are forced to this disorder somwhat also must be sayd least silence in speach shew diffidence in truth and that a foole as the Scripture insinuateth if he be not answered in his folly begin to thinke himself wyse Prouerb 26. We haue signifyed before in our preface how a certayne contentious minister desyrous to be doing and to play a parte but yet not without a visard in respect of the follyes perhaps he was to vtter resolued to mask and cypher his name vnder the letters of O. E. and then hauing pervsed the reply of S. FraÌ„cis Hastings to the Ward-word and misliking as it seemeth the same as insufficient he bâ—ckled himselfe to make in his owne opinion a better defence though in other mens iudgment of two bad this is farre the worse both in respâ—ct of the substance of matters and controuersies handled wherof this man treateth no one groundedlie any where but only quarrelleth at the words and sentences of his aduersarie as also in regard of his outragious intemperate speach which runneth alâ—o oftentymes both to turpitude scurrilitie the reason wherof we thinke to be in parte for that the minister perswading himselfe to be masked presumeth to vtter any tâ—ing as vnknowne and I am content for this tyme to let him so passe though in deed his deportment be such against all kynd of Catholique men neuer so learned vertuous worshipful or honorable as no way he deserueth any such fauour and that I could dismaske him he may perceyue by diuers poynts which afterward I shal haue occasion to touch Now â—hen letting passe this we shal looke into the argument of this present Epistle of O.E. to N.D. which yow shal see to consist of three principal poynts Tâ—â—e poynts of â—his Epistle to wit notorious folly apparant falshood ridiculous vanitie in bragging vauÌ„ting let vs see them all in order This Epistle prefixed before his booke hath this inscription To N. D. alâ—as Noddie O. E. vvisheth knovvledge of truth c. and then beginneth he his Epistle thus Sir N.D. or Noddie or hovvsoeuer it shal please yovv to style your selfe being a man but of tvvo or three letters c. Heeâ—e yow see beginneth a graue contention betweene O. E. and N. D. about the worde Noddie which none but a Noddy in my opinion would euer haue brought into examination especially in print â—or that N. D. being but consonants and hauing no sound of their owne cannot make Noddie excâ—pt yow ad the sound of O.E. vnto them that are vowels to geue lyfe vnto the word wherof it foloweth that seing consonants are but the material parte of a worde and vowels the formal O. â— must needs be the formal Noddie and that N.D. doth but lend him a coople of consonants to make him a Noddie and thus much for the name it selfe But as for the nature and essence of a Noddie to which of the two it doth best agree shal appeare afterward in the discussion of matters throughout this whole combat and one poynt of a Noddie yow may presentlie perceaue in these verie words alleadged wheras O.E. obiected to N.D. that he is a man but of two or three letters which is answered sufficientlie by numbring onlie how many letters O. E. do make and so agayne afterward and verie often in his repliâ— he obiecteth to N. D. that he durst not put downe his name at length which yet himselfe being at home vpon his owne ground and among
and partaker of his golden purposes As for that which foloweth of recusant Catholikes that they do enioy their lands goods country and libertie notvvithstanding they are secretlie reconciled to the Pope and do adhere to her Maiesties enemyes as by a marginal note he sayth doth appeare by diuers letters of priests ready to be shevved Catholykes enioying their goodes and libertie for there enioying I would the ministers ioy were not greater in his benefices and then I doubt not but he would be more calme then now he is his hawty wyues hayre would soone grow through her french veluet hood but for their adhering to enemyes testified as he sayth by Priests letters we haue as litle reason to beleeue him against Priests not shewing their letters as they should haue to write any such vntruth which we beleeue not but take it as a stratageme deuised to set vs at diuision among our selues The whole discourse next ensuing is so bitter spiteful so ful of gore blood poyson as it needeth his visour of O. E. to vtter thesame for that the cunning compagnion though he be content to fawne and flatter be knowne vnderhand therby to gather vp some morsels for the present yet fearing perhaps somwhat the future and considering that both tymes and matters and men may change he thought good to pâ—euent afterclaps by couering his true name and to purchase securitie for tyme to come with the losse or diminishment of some prayse present And therfore walking out of sight in this behalf he playeth egregiouslie the syrebrand telling her Maiestie and her counsel O.E.A. notorious fyrebrand of sedition that too much extraordinarie fauour and remissnes tovvards Catholikes hath caused diuers rebellions both in England and Ireland and that it hath dissolued the very synevves of gouernment that it is more profitable and expedient to excute lavves then to pardon offenders c. All which this sycophaÌ„t chaunted out lustely at that very tyme and season to fil vp her Maiesties eares when his Lord and yong king Essex was most busy in plotting her Maiesties ouerthrow vnder pretence of meeting at puritane sermons and seing that this plot was layd in Ireland from whence this minister vnder pretence of running away for feare of punishment of some vntemperate words spoken came into England not long before his maister as heere is reported it may be he came about this negotiation and fearing least it might be discouered before due tyme he took in hand to write this book of all-arme against Catholikes to disguyse and shadow the other A treacherous deuise and to diuert mens eyes another way but for this let her Maiesties wyse counsel looke vnto and prouide as they shal fynd need I am only to proceed in refuting of his malice and folly let them punish his treacherie and knauery if they fynd it After his spite is spit ouâ— against the Catholikes he cometh to aduauÌ„ce highlie Sir F. Hastings wach-word Bragging of Sir F. book and sayth that the good knight of a zealous mynd tovvards religion gâ—ueth the vvord to his countrimen And I say N.D. giueth the Ward and who geueth or receyueth most venewes let our countrymen be iudges as they may also of this champion his successe who seing his good knight dryuen to the wal with more hast then good speed cometh running to his succour receauing for his gaine the first broken head as wrangling sticlers ar wont to do and so I suppose yow wil say also when ye see al that passeth Yet doth he with a conâ—ident interrogation commend vnto vs the whole worke saying vvhat one sentence in all the vvhole discourse can be noted vnvvorthy eyther a true Christian or a loyal subiect or a vvorthy knight wherto I answere that there wil so many sentences be found in the treatise folowing vnworthy of al three poyntes mentyoned to wit Christianitie loyaltie and chiualry as if this worthy champion can defend them he wil shew him selfe worthie to be knighted also and to haue a K. for the first letter of his title But to returne agayne to the prosecution of this mans inuectiue against Catholikes their liues honours liberty and goods all which he impugneth at one tyme and for some florish and shew of proof he alleageth first certayne examples of Scripture where kings of Iuda were reprehended for permitting vnlauful woorship and then out of the old Roman lawes recounted dy Cicero and Vlpian â— Reg. 1â— â— Paral. â—3 Cicero lib. 3. de legâ— bus Vlpian l. quo ties ff de poeâ—is which do prescribe diuers kyndes of punishments for malefactors and â—hirdly out of the lawes of ancient Christian Empâ—rors that willed heretikes to be punished and with this thinketh that he hath proued very substantialâ—y that Catholike men also may must be puniâ—â—ed in England But thus to reason at randome is much like to boyes argumenting in Sophistry Petrus iacet in lectulo ergo hâ—â—ulus siat in angulo these examples haue no affinity or coherence with our cause but only so much as they make against this Noddy His argumeÌ„t against him â—elfe and for vs for if old Roman lawes do gyue general authority to the body of the common wealth to punish particular offencers non è contra as Cicero signifieth in his booke de legibus then foloweth it in good reason that the Catholike christian churche being the vniuersal body of Christs common wealth vpon earth hath authoritie to punish ProtestaÌ„ts Puritanes Lutherans Arrians or any other sect that doth or shal aryse but not that theâ—e haue authoritie or may haue to punish the other for matter of religion though they sâ—ould get superiority of temporal power in any place of the world for that they are but particuler men and members of members at all and the other the body and true common wealth to whom only it appertayneth to punish And leâ— * O. â— Oules eie but sâ—ewe me one example from the beginning of Christendome that euer any man or woman in any age was punished as an heretike by the Christian common wealth for sticking to the religion of the Pope of Rome and it shal be sufficient for all I aske but one example out of all antiquitie As for the examples alleaged by him of Asa and Manasses kings of Iuda who notwithstanding 3. Reg. 15. 2 Paral. 33. Idolatrous vvorâ—hip on hils among the levves out of the Temple pre-figured heresves among Christians Hierem. in c. â— Amos in c. 12. O see Aux de vriâ—â—tate ieiunâ— cap. â— Deutt â—3 Aug. de ciuit Dei l. 1â— cap 51. Cypr. lib. de vn Eccl. Hier. in cap. â— Ezech. in c 1â— Osee in c. 1â— Zach. in c. 8. â— an Aug. enarrat in Psalm â—0 part â—9 sup lib Iosue cap. 27. their other good zeale did not remooue the vnlawful seruice and sacrifice accustomed on hils and high places they make nothing against vs but
do follow the prophane peruersitie of Eutiches condemned in the late Councel gathered at Calcedon and do not so beleeue in all poyntes of fayth as the 318. holy Fathers of the Nicene Councel VVho are heretykes by the sentence of auncieÌ„t Christian Emperors An Domini 457. and as the 150. venerable Bishops gathered together in the Councel of Constantinople or the other two councels folowing of Ephesus or Calcedon sciant se eâ—ie haereticos c. let them know that they are heretikes This decree made Valentinian and Martian Emperors of the east and west nyne and twenty yeares after the former decree And the like made the Emperor Maximilian after the late Councel of Trent against all kynd of Protestants LutheraÌ„s ZuingliaÌ„s Anabaptists Caluinists and the like condemned by the said Councel so as the same reason that moued Valentinian and Marcian almost 1200. yeares agoe to proclame them heretiques that were condemned by the Councel of Calcedon in their dayes wherin Leo primus B. of Rome had the chiefe hand and confirmed the same The same I say moued Maximilian the Emperor of our dayes to proclame for heretiques all protestants condemned in the Councel of Trent gathered in his tyme by like authoritie as that of Calcedon was but yet let vs see one deduction furder Of what religion think yow were these Emperors that made these lawes against those heretikes or what communion were they of for by this we shal see who they were whom they condemned Did these Emperors then agree with the Church and religion of Rome and acknowledged that for the cheefe and head church of Christianity and the Bishops therof to be head Pastors For if they did then condemned they such as did not the same then or do not thesame now This poynt then let vs explayne good reader and therby also learne the sutle shifting of this shuffling Minister Truly the first decree of al Iustinians Code which is a collection of all Christian Emperors decrees being of Gratian The religion of Gratian Valentinian Theodosius Valentinian and Theodosius whose first words are Cunctos populos c. Doth appoynt and command all Christian people both of the Roman and Greeke Empyre to follow the fayth and religion of the Roman Church deliuered to them by S. Peter and continued vnto that day which say they Damasus the Bishop of that Citty doth follow as also Peter Bishop of Alexandria whosoeuer did not follow this vnity of Religion should be counted infamous heretikes This is the substance of that first decree which being so tel me now if this doth touch our protestants or no who can abyde neyther Roman B. nor Roman Religion Thesame three Emperors in an other Decree do describe vnto vs what manner of heretikes they would haue punished Leg. omnes de haerer lib. â— Coâ— tit 5. in these words Haereticorum vocabulo continentur latis aduersus eos sanctionibus debents succumbere qui vel leui argumento à iudicio Catholicae religionis tramite detecti fuerint deuiare VVho are truly heretiâ—es Those are heere called heretiques and to be punished by our lawes made against them whosoeuer shal be detected to dissent and disagree euen in any smal matter from the iudgment and path of Catholike religion Thus say they And seing in their first Decree they do declare that the Roman religion vnder Pope Damasus was the only Catholike religion to be folowed it is easely seene whether Protestants or Papists at this day be comprehended vnder these penal lawes made against heretikes or no And finally that we may see by one Emperors playne decree what religion they were of and of what society and communion and whom they accompted true Catholikes and whom heretikes yow must know that in the fore-said Code of Iustinian there is a letter of Iohn the first B. of Rome written to the said Emperor Iustinian whose tytle is this Gloriosissimo clementâ—ssimo filio Iustiniano Ioannes Episcopus vrbis Romae c. wherein among other prayses which the Pope geueth him one principal was that notwithstanding he was Emperour of Constantinople and that some emulation now began in that Empyre against the Citty of Rome yet he persisted in his Catholike due obedience to the said Church of Rome head of all other Churches amore fidei sayth he chaeritatis studio Cod. lib. 1. leg inter claras tit â— edocti Ecc is disciplinis Romanae sedis reuerentiam conseruatis ei cuncta subijcitis ad eius deducitis vnitatem ad cuius authorem hocest Apostolorum primum Domino loquente praeceptum est pasce oues meas quam esse omnium verè Ecclesiarum caput Patrum regulae principum statuta declarant pietatis vestrae reuerendissimi testantur affatus c. Yow being moued by the loue of faith studie of charitie wel instructed in the discipline of the Church do continue your reuerence to the Roman sea and do subiect all other therunto bringing them to the vnity of this Churche to whose fouÌ„der the first of all the Apostles Christ gaue this precept feed my sheepe which Churche as wel the rules 10.21 and traditions of ancient Fathers as the decrees of former Christian Princes haue declared to be truly the head of all other Churches And the same do testifie your Maiesties most reuerent speeches and behauiour towards the same This wrote the Pope to him which letter he putting into his said Code or book of Statutes as a most honorable monument answered the same and made a decree theron which beginneth thus Victor Iustinus pius faelix Imperator c. Ioanni S mo Archiepiscopo Alme Vrbis Romae Cod. ibid. leg nos reddentes lib. 1. tit 3. Patriarchae c. Nos reddentes honorem Apostolica sedi vestri Sanctitati c. We rendering due honor to the sea Apostolike and to your Holinesse which alwayes we haue desyred as becometh to a Father we haue endeauored in honour of your beatitude to bring to the knowledge of your Holines all things that do appertayne to the state of all Churches for that it hath byn alwayes our study to keepe and conserue the vnity of your Apostolike sea and of the holy Churches of God which vnity hath alwayes hitherto perseuered immouable without any contrariety and consequentlie we haue byn careful to subiect and vnite all priests of the whole east couÌ„tryes to the sea of your Holines Thus beginneth he his decree which is ouer loÌ„g to be here all inserted but any man may read it wherin the Emperor with great humility and affection professeth his due subiection and of al his Empyre to the Church of Rome naming her in expresse wordes Caput omnium Ecclesiarum head of all other Churches and that whatsoeuer doctryne is different from the doctryne of this Church is heretical by which rule he condemneth for heretikes in this and in two other that follow immediatly and
are extant in the Code both in Greeke and Latyn Nestorius Leg. eum recta â—eruâ—torem ibid. Euthichâ—s Apollinaris as dissenting from the Roman Church and Bishops therof Now then let the reader iudge whether these lawes of the Emperors made against heretikes do touch vs or protestants And so much of this second poynt The third poynt also touching S. Augustine his approuing S. Augustin alleaged by O. E. against himself and commending much these Emperors for punishing heresyes for making lawes against heretikes is altogither for vs in like manner and fully against protestants August lib. 1. contr Ep. Parmâ—n cap. 6. 10. ep 62. 166. Aug. ep 4â— ad Vincent for that S. Augustine dealing specially in this pointe against the Donatists Circumcellians who denyed the visible Church dispersed ouer the whole world and restrayned it to their sect only in Africa as euery sect of our Protestants doth at this day to the particuler place and Society where they liue it is easely seene who were heretikes and who to be punished by S. Augustines opinion to wit those that do rise vp against the vniuersal knowne and visible Church of their tyme do condemne it or are condemned by it and let Sir minister bring but one example to the contrarie in any age from Christ to Luther and it shal be sufficient to wit that any man condemned by the general knowne and visible Church of his tyme for an heretike was not held and taken for such by any of that tyme or any tyme after that was not an heretike himselfe let Oules eie I say spie but one exaÌ„ple of this out of all antiquitie and it shal be sufficieÌ„t Wherfore to end all his matter about Imperial lawes for punishing of heretikes and approuing therof both by the Apostle and by S. Augustine which yet other Protestants hitherto did neuer vrge as this witles minister doth let the reader marke this firme deduction and playne demonstration all those foresaid Christian and Catholike Emperors so much comended by S. Augustine and other Fathers following after him to wit Gratian Valentinian Theodosius Marcian Arcadius Honorius Iustinian and others A manifest deduction demonstration against nevv sectaties that made lawes against heretikes they held the Roman religion in their dayes to be the Catholike and true Christian religion though diuers of them were of the Greeke Church and Empyre They professed the Bishops of Rome to be the heads and cheife leaders of this vniuersal and visible Catholike Church as before hath byn shewed by the example of Gratian ValeÌ„tiniaÌ„ Theodosius to Pope Damasus of Arcadius Honorius Theodosius the second S. Augustine Pope Innocentius primus and of Iustinian to Pope Iohn the first and consequeÌ„tlie they pronounced for heretikes all those that did rise vp apart vnder particuler Authors differing in opinions from this vniuersal church as Arrians Donatists Montanists and the like This vniuersal visible and external Church hath endured euer since vnder Popes and Emperors and other gouernors of Christianitie vntil the tyme of Pope Leo the tenth and his successors and of Emperors Ferdinand Charles the fifth Maximilian and their followers when Luther began to brake out from that Church and against that Church and others following his example since that tyme. Now then I would aske by what equity or reason this later brood comming forth of this Church and rebelling against it can cal those men heretikes that remayned in the fayth of the foresaid Church and moreouer wil say that they must be punished by the same lawes that the foresaid Catholike Emperors made against those that impugned that Churche This I say I would haue our new Oedipus to answere and in the meane space the discrete reader may consider how it can be answered by him so blush for him that hath not byn ashamed to bring in so cleare a conuiction against himselfe One onely sillie shift or pettie cauil this minister perhaps may run vnto as dyuers of his fellowes are wont with a brasen affirming that the visible Catholike and Roman Church when Luther began was not the same that it was when those Emperors made those lawes but theÌ„ I would aske him when it changed and how and by what meanes so great a body so generally planted so strengthened and fortifyed not only by Gods spirite but also by learned men Doctors Councels in euery age could come to be changed and perish without testimony of any one wryter or historiographer without noyse coÌ„tention or contradiction of any The Emperors are knowne that liued and raigned in this meane space and except two or 3. as Leo the third called Isaurus and his sonne Constantine the fifth surnamed Capronius which fel into heresyes and were noted and condemned by the same Churche all the rest liued and dyed in one Religion of their ancestors The Popes also from Ioannes primus before mentyoned to whom Iustinian the Emperor wrote his decree vnto Leo decimus wheÌ„ Luther begaÌ„ne are in nuÌ„ber about 17c all of one religion nor can it be shewed that any one Pope impugned his predecessor in matters of fayth This demonstration is as cleare then as that 3. and 4. do make 7. for when Luther and Lutherans began their new sects A most â—leere palpable demoÌ„stration our Churche was held for the only Catholike and true Churche of christendome and so did both Luther Zuinglius and Caluin hold it also before they fel when the one was a Fryer the other two Priests and all three said Masse how then by their falling from it the said church should be made no church and their new congregations to be the only true Cathol Church and that they should come now to-call themselues Catholikes and vs heretikes and that we should be punished for heretikes by the former Imperial lawes made against themselues and their lyke this I say is a mysterie and metamorphosis that passeth the reach of all sober men and none but mad heads can eyther say it or beleeue it for that by the same argument may English Puritanes at this day which is a yonger brood of protestaÌ„ts as yow know in our country taking some port or towne in England fortifying themselues therin cal Parlament Protestants to account saying as they do that they are the elder church and that they wil punish parlament Protestants with the same Parlament lawes which Protestants made of purpose to punish them But I am ouerlong in a matter so cleare and therfore I craue pardon of thee good reader and wil here end and so much the rather for that I am to handle this poynt more at large afterward against O. E. in his new chalenge to wit who be heretikes and who be not for that he wil needs take vpon him to defend this mad desperate paradox that papists be heretikes protestants Catholikes but I think we shal shake him out of his clouts when he cometh to that combat
somwhat yow may ghesse by that which here hath byn said VVherfore to draw to an end of this his preface to draw our doughtie Minister out of the dyke of imperrinent discourses after a litle ruffle of choler wherin he saith that the proud and presumptuous Iesuite calling himselfe N. D. had presented his vvard-vvord to her Maties Counsel he telleth vs what an heretical new enterprise he hath taken in hand A nevv â—raking chaleÌ„ge of O.E. to wit besyds the answering of the ward-word to make an other chalenge of his owne I haue sayth he to meet him at euery turne vvith my ansvvere to this noddy conioyned a briefe discourse and in certayne nevv Encounters dravving him into a nevv combat proued that Popish religion is neyther Catholique nor ancient nor true religion nor the true Church of Christ nor the Popes agents that haue byn executed for traytors true martyrs c. Thus he vaunteth what he would do as Goliath did 1. Reg. 17. Dabo carnes tuas volatilibus coeli c. but what he wil performe when he cometh into the feild where he and I must try who is the Noddy that we shal see after And I am content the reader be both looker on and Iudge yf the sturdie minister receyue more blowes then he expected and returne home beaten back and syde in this first combat about the Ward-word then may his frends bemone him if they list while other do laugh and then shal we haue litle need to enter into his new combat which he offreth after this but if he proue himselfe a man in the first then may he more be trusted in the second As for my presumptioÌ„ in presenting my defence and ward vnto the Lords of her Ma ties Counsel No presumption to haue offred the VVards-vvord to the Lords of the Counsel I see no reason besyds this Ministers anger and disdayne why it should be so called or taken seing their honours are publique iudges vmpyres by office for all sorts of persons to haue refuge vnto And for so much as the iniuryes offered by the Watch-word as a famous libel as wel to great forrayne Princes and nations as to honorable worshipful and most honest subiects did touch the honour and publique weale of our kingdome and nation very neare to whom should I haue gone for remedy in this matter but only to their Lordships should I haue made my mone to the Puritanical and tyrannical Presbytery of S r Fâ— Ministers or to the rude rable of O. E. his pyratical compagnions we haue seene the issue of both these sorts of late and therby may we gather what equity we should fynd at their hands seing the Prince whom they most flattered hath found at their hands so egregious treachery and conspiracy To their Honours I appealed then with iust reason shal do now agayne in the end of this my book to cal these two defendants to account of the crymes of flattery forgery sycophaÌ„cy vsed by theÌ„ in this their writing to the end that if my seueral warnings which I am to geue them after all the Encounters do not worke some good in them yet at least wyse their honours authority and respect may make them blush and put them to silence Last of all the Ministers conclusion is this not vnlike to the premisses This sayth he I may boldly say that I haue not follovved the aduersaryes vayne in scurrilous scoffing nor his vanity in ruffinlike bragging Boldly yow may say it S. Minister but how truly your writing it self wiâ—-shew afterward and hath in part already And I doubt whether euer any of your coate yf yow haue any certayne coate to be knowne by and be not of euery coate haue so much exceeded in all these three poynts of scurrility vanity or rayling as yow haue done for which cause yow are forced also to put on the visard of O. E. for couering your shame It followeth further But vvhy shouâ—d I goe about say yow to excuse my selfe before the faultes be proued percase it is no fault to vvrite as I haue done Lo heere an other qualification of the matter before he denyed it now he putteth it in doubt and percase but heare yet further And vvere it a fault sayth he yet I trust thou vvilt beare vvith my vveaknes seing as the Apostle sayth O. E. calleth his rayling vveaknâ—s all of vs offend in many things Heere Io is the last refuge and excuse of all to wit by vveaknes that all do offend in many things To the first if it be weaknes of brayne and wit it is pardonable for that it is forcible but if it be weaknes of manners and honestly it is a fowle fault in a prelate and preaching deane that should strengthen others To the second though all offend in many things yet that it is no iust excuse in euery thing for yf this answere might be admitted at Newgate sessions when those good fellowes are brought foorth to be arraygned of their offences then fewe or none would go to Tyborne but as there in those kind of people many wickednesses are pardoned and some offences punished the one in mercy the other in iustice so it should be with this fellow also and may perhaps one day if he come to an indifferent session In the meane space I am content to conclude as he doth to the reader and in his owne words Read sayth he vvith indifferency and vveigh my allegations and compare deligentlie my defence vvith the Noddyes chalenge and then vse thy libertie in iudgement to discerne vvho is the Noddye THE FIRST ENCOVNTER ABOVT BLESSINGES AND CVRsinges brought in by change of Catholike Religion in England THE ARGVMENT This first Encounter about blessings and benefites cursinges and calamityes ensuing vpon the change of Catholyke religion in our Country or threatning to ensue vvas the first and principal matter taken out of S. Francis Hastinges Watch-word by the VVarder to be incountred vpon as an argument both of moment and vtility to be handled and vvel considered as sufficiently appeareth by the VVarders discourse therof vvhervnto both the knight and his aduocate O. E. hauing replyed N. D. maketh this reioynder diuiding the same for more perspicuityes sake into 19. Chapters vvhich follovv in order A BRIEFE SVMMARIE of all that before hath byn said or now is to be added about this first Encounter of Blessinges and cursinges by change of Catholike Religion CHAP. 1. TOVCHING the seueral argumentes of the Watch-word and Ward-word in general as also of this secoÌ„d reioyneder combat betwene Sir Francis and me in this his VVast-word and my Warn-word as in like maner the late arriual of O. E. his Wrangle-word sufficient hath byn said before in the preface to the whole worke as also in the epistle to O. E. himselfe and in the annotations vpon both their letters to the Reader so as now we are only to treat of the proper subiect of this first
Augustine explicaâ—eth himself so had he vttered or not fraudulentlie concealed thesame the question had byn out of doubt S. Aug. in Psalm 9â— For thus sayth S. Augustine Qui iubilat non verba dicit sed sonus quidam est laetinae sine verbis vâ—x est enim animi diffusi laetitia exprimentis quantum potest affectum non sensum comprehendentis He that doth Iubilate or hath this Iubilation meant by the Prophet doth not vtter any words for it is a certayne sound of inward ioy without words it is a voyce of our mynd ful of Ioy and expressing her affection as much as she can but not attayning to expresse the ful inward feeling therof Thus doth S. Augustine explicate himselfe And in an other place more playnlie yet Aâ—g in Psal. â—â— asking this question quid est intelligas iubilationeÌ„ what is meaÌ„t by the Prophet when he willeth thee to vnderstand iubilation and then answereth vt scias vnde gaudeas quod verbis explicare non possis that thou maist know wherof to reioyse without being able to expresse thesame in words Lo heere the truth of these good fellowes that alleadge vs Doctors so flatlie against their owne words and meaning About the vvords of S. Paul 1. Cor. 14. to speake in a knovveâ— tonge And this were sufficient to end this controuersie but that the K t. hath a florish more out of S. Paul who most diuinely sayth he treateth this matter in his fauour belike in his first Epistle to the Corinthians 14. Chapter And that Caâ—etan moued by those words of the Apostle thinketh that prayer should be made in vulgar tongues To the first it is euident ynough by the place it selfe that those words of the Apostle make nothing at all for publike seruice and that the former partes therof are playnlie spoken of prophesying exhortations when christiaÌ„s did meete in the primitiue Churche Cypr. epist. ad Pomp. Quiâ—inum Aug lib. 2. dâ— bapt cap â— Basil. quest breuiteâ— exâ—l q. 27â— Amb in 1. Cor. 1â— which exhortations to the people he would haue in a knowne language which all did vnderstand not in forayne peregryne tongues which many did speake by gifte of the holy ghost And so do enterpret this place S. Cyprian S. Augustine S. Basil S. Ambrose and diuers other Fathers And in the later part of the Apostles words where he speaketh of praying and singing that it should not be in a peregryne tongue he cannot be vnderstood to speake or meane of publike seruice in the Churche for that this publike seruice was already in the greeke toÌ„gue at Corinth whether he wrote this Epistle and in no peregrine or straÌ„ge language but such as was vnderstood by all all being Grecians consequentlie it had byn impertineÌ„t in S. Paul to persuade that it should be in a knowne language S. Paules true meaning Paul Eph 5. vers 20. wherfore his meaning was of certayne spiritual songs which diuers inspired by the holy ghost in the Primitiue Churche did breake foorth into ex tempore in their meetings of which S. Paul sayth to the Ephesians Be not drunken with wyne which leadeth to vncleanes but be fâ—l of the holy ghost speaking one to another in psalmes and hymnes and spiritual songes singing and reioycing in your hartes to Christ. Col. 3. vers 16 And agayne to the Colossians Singing in your harts to God by his grace in Psalmes and hymnes and spiritual songes These songs therfore comming of aboundance of the holy Ghost and oâ— that inward Iubilation of hart before spoken of in the primitiue Churche it fel out that some Christians by the gifte of tongues very ordinarily in those dayes did vtter sometymes these their affections in strange languages as in the Arabian Persian and other like tongues which neyther theÌ„selues perhaps nor others did alwayes vnderstand and sometymes others interpreting by thesame giâ—â—e of tongues that which they spake without vnderstanding â—ift of toÌ„ges to the first Christians as is playne by the text of S. Paule who therfore for the common consolation of all exhorteth them to vtter theire â—eeling and suggestions of the holy Ghost rather in a knowne tongue then in externe languages and this of priuate meetings and spiritual reioycing of those first Christians amoÌ„g themselues But as for publike prayer and reading of scriptures in the Churche who knoweth not that they were read in the Hebrew tongue in the Churches and congregations of Iury and in the Greeke tongue among the Corinthians and other Grecyans and east Churches in Latyn among the Romanes as before hath byn shewed and no probabilitie that S. Paul did euer mislike the same consequentlie could not meane therof in this Epistle And though Caietan should haue any other singular interpretation or illatioÌ„ of his owne in his commentarie vpon this place it is farre from the meaning of the Apostle as yow haue seene and different from the exposition and sense of ancient Fathers whom we are to follow before him yet in the very beginning of the same commentarie he hath these words Caet comeÌ„t in cap. 14. 1. Cor. vniuersus textus iste loquitur propriè de donis linguarum prophetiae vt tractando textus ipse testatur All this text doth speake properlie of the giftes of tongues and prophesying as the text it selfe in handling doth testifie which if it be true then can nothing for publike seruice in vulgar tongues be proued out of it thus much of this OF THE FOVRTH AND fift blessings affirmed to haue byn brought in by Protestantes which are aboundance of good woorkes freedome from persecution CAP. X. HAVING byn ouer long in the examination of the former three blessings The fourth blessing good lyfe of Protestants I meane to be much shorter in the rest wherfore there foloweth the fourth blessing which Syr F. bringeth in as peculiar to protestants for otherwise it were no blessing obteyned by change of religion which is the rare and singular good lyfe of ProtestaÌ„ts called by this blessing bringer Pag. 18. their exercise in workes of true pietye and in his marginal note and ranke of blessings The exercise of true Holinesse which is a straÌ„ge blessing if a man consider wel of it that the exercise of good works and true holynes was brought in onlie or principallie by Protestants of our dayes for first the experience of the whole world wil deny it and cry out against it and secondlie there best frends who speake most of their faith wil and do renounce their woorks as for example Erasmus among other Fox in the lyfe of Bilney and other first protestants Erasmi Ep. ad Carth. apud Surium an 1â—â—6 whom Fox euery where would nedes make their first founder and fauourer though himself deny and detest them after experience had of their liues saith thus Neminem vidi meliorem deteriores omnes I neuer saw any made better
deed he doth sufficiently manifest him-selfe in this place by so many hems and hammes as he vseth in puritanes defence saying he trusteth God wil direct them to agree Pag. 13. and that howsoeuer some dissent hath appeared as though in deed it were not yet he doubteth not but it shal be seene to the world that it is concordia discordia with a discord that hath concord in yt c. Thus he salueth the matter for his tender affection towards the Puritans wheras his Champion O.E. talking of this diuision sayth playnly and resolutely of them Infra cap. 15. 16. as we shal treate more at large after-ward that they are no more to be counted of protestants society then the Papists that are of the Popes retinue and thesame do say the Puritanes of protestants as before out of their owne wordes hath byn declared VVHAT THE CHAMpion Minister O.E. sayth to this matter of cursings and how absurdly he behaueth him-selfe therin CAP. XIII HOWSOEVER our masked minister hath byn silent in the former blessings yet wil he shewe him-selfe vocal now seing his name consisteth of onely vowels about this opposite argument of cursings and with his verbositie he wil supply the K t. breuitie wherof we haue spoken and complayned in this chapter for yow must vnderstand and yow shal perceaue it by the proof that this vowel minister is a great vaeunâ— parlar The manner of O.E. his ansvveriug and foloweth vp and downe the warder snatching and snarling at euery word almost he sayth but without rithme or reason order or method shame or modestie but only sayth or denyeth as it turneth best to his fancy for the present thinking the victory to consist in out-talking his aduersary or contradicting whatsoeuer is said and that he is the conquerer who hath the last word true or false and by this briefe note yow may square him out hereafter in all his answere as by tryal yow shal see First then to begin with that which the warder layeth downe of diuers difficulties already growen in England by change of reliligion he sayth Pag. 12. that to this the state of things them-selues wil answere lawes are ordinarily executed no man is wronged eyther in his person lands or goods but he may haue remedy religion is truâ—â— preached and professed c. Yow see how farre how plausibly he may runne counter in this poynt VVhether change of religion be daungerous and how substantially he proueth that there be no difficultyes by his owne onely denyal but yet marke reader how soone after he putteth a moderation to this general assertion granting some difficultyes but denying the true cause Secondly sayth he we say that howsoeuer wâ— stand true religion is neyther the case of trouble nor danger for if that were so then were all Princes states that professe religion in the same case Pag. 13. Loe how wyse a man he sheweth himselfe to be first in his proposition and then in his inference his proposition is impertinent that true religion bringeth no trouble for we talke of protestant religion which is foolery for him to presume that we graunt it to be true religion and besydes this we talke not of religioÌ„ it selfe but of the changement which in religion eyther true or false may breed troubles in any common wealth but especially the change of Catholike religion hauing bin for so many ages established and so many Princes and Monarches of the Christian woorld professing the same His inference that all protestant Princes by this reason should be in trouble is an ydle non consequent for their cases may be different their states vnequal the máner of change vnlike and the proceeding therin after an other fashion but yet whether the protestant Princes of Christendome haue gayned or no by the change or whether they be or may be in more daunger of troubles for separating themselues from the Catholike body of christian Princes than yf they had continued in their Fathers religion I leaue this to wyse men to iudge and tyme to try And this to his first inference but besydes this he hath a second in the same kynd no lesse foolish that if change of religion bringeth trouble then all catholike Princes that haue not changed must enioy peace Fond inferrences and be out of daunger which is true so farre foorth as coÌ„cerneth this daunger arising by change which is of no smal importance seing it deuideth not only betweene them and other Princes of different religion but betweene them also and their subiects and if Catholike Princes haue had their troubles also or daungers in our dayes it hath bene eyther for other causes or for that some in their states haue gone about to alter religion against thesayd Princes willes as in France and Scotland Flanders and other places and so consequentlie change of religion though not intended by them hath byn the cause of their said troubles and dangers But heare out the minister yet further lastly sayth he yf religion now professed were the immediate cause original of any trouble like to ensue then should not the Papists haue byn the principal meanes to moue warres rebellions against the state nor the only practisers against her Maiesties person safety as we haue found them to haue byn Thus he sayth but how it hangeth together God knoweth or the diuel that taught him to make this malitious consequence against innocent men for I see not by any Cambridge or Oxford logicke how this illation may be founded if chaunge of religion bring troubles ergo why do Catholikes moue troubles he hath brought this kynd of arguyng from the campe no doubt for he neuer found it in schoole And as for the calumniation of this wicked assertion that Catholikes are the only moouers of warres and practisers against her Maiesties safety the instance I trow of his late M r. the Earle of Essex and the Puritanes Essex atteÌ„pt the hopes of his follovvers and other hungry protestants that set him a worke wherin this fellow also perhaps hoped to haue no smal share if things had succeeded doth sufficientlie cleare vs and so both the forme of his argument prouing him vnlearned and the substance and matter dishonest I leaue him for this first onset and come to the second for thus he goeth forward against me Pag. 14. Yow see sayth he this Noddy hath neyther reason nor truth in his discourse c. he telleth vs that by alteration of Religion in England Scotland Ireland Flanders France haue tasted of many miseries tumultes calamityes desolations he should haue said of many blessings frendly fauours This needeth no reply if the reader be of any iudgment for he can see the impudency of the assertion And then going forward to answere my enumeratioÌ„ of so many battails murders distruction of so many couÌ„tryes prouinces townes cittyes noble houses linages c occasioned by diuersitie and change of religioÌ„
and consequentlie he doth as much as if with one hand he should embrace lul and coople together both Lutherans Zuinglians and Puritanes acknowledging them for his deare and tender brethren and with the other should beat them of detest them as enemyes and publike heretikes for so he doth in effect seing it is euident that neyther the sectaryes of LutheraÌ„s Zuinglians or Puritan-Caluinists of Geneua France ScotlaÌ„d HollaÌ„d or England do agree which O. E. his rule of fayth here mentioned to wit the rule established by common consent at this day in the Churche of England And this is euidentlie and aboundantly proued by their owne books and sayings before recyted in the 4.5.6 and sequeÌ„t chapters of this Encounter But for that our Minister maketh mention heere of a certayne rule of fayth wherby he and his are directed and others that digresse from the same are to be reiected from their communion and societie I meane to examine â—he same brieflie in this place and to see what 〈◊〉 is And first of all that there is and must be â—ome certayne rule among Christians That their is some certayne rule of fayth as vvel hovv to beleeue as also vvherby to interpret scriptures wherby â—o know and stay their fayth and to discerne â—ew Catholykes from heretykes is most â—â—ident both by reason it selfe and by the authoritie of the verie first founders of our religion who often do make mention and admonish vs therof as S. Paul to the Corinthians secundum regulam nostram 2. Cor. 10. according to our rulâ— and to the Philippenses in eadeÌ„ permaneamus regula let vs persist in the same rule And to the Gallatians Phil. 3. quicúnque hanc regulam secuâ—â— fuerâ—â—t pax super illos whosoeuer shal follow this rule of fayth Gal. 6. peace vpon them and other such places Rom. 12. as namely to the Romanes Prophetia secundum rationem fidei prophesy by which iâ— vnderstood heere principallie interpretatioâ— of scriptures according to the rule or analogie oâ— fayth for so is the greek word By all which places is manifest that there iâ— a certayne publike rule of fayth and was eueâ— among the Apostles them-selues and thesamâ— continued afterward by all the Fathers oâ— euery age wherby it was easye to distinguiâ—â— betweene such as were Orthodoxi or Catholykes and others that were new fangled oâ— wrangling people that would follow no rulâ— but their owne head and fancyes of whiâ—â— rule make mention also in the primitiâ—â— Churche Ignatius after the Apostles epist. adâ—â—â—gnetianos Iustinus Apol 2. pro Christianis Irenaeus 〈◊〉 1. cap. 1. 2. Clemens lib. 4. stromatum aduersus 〈◊〉 reses Tertullianus lib. de velandis virginibus 〈◊〉 Alexandrinus as S. Basil cyteth him lib. de spiriâ—â— cap. 29. and many other Fathers commendiâ—â— highlie and inculcating often the obseruatiâ—â— of this rule as wel for beliefe as also for inteâ—â—pretation of Scriptures but especiallie to câ—â—â—cerne heretikes who to vse these Fathers owne words do no sooner begin to pratle but that by digressing from this rule do bewray them-selues and shew what they are and thus far that there is a rule which our enemies cannot deny But now what that rule is it may be that our Minister and I shal not so soone agree VVhat the rule of faith is or vvas in old tyme. but yet first of all that it cannot be onlie Scripture is euident by his owne speach and confession in this place Pag 19. where he sayth that his people of England do professe the Doctrine of Christ Iesus according to that rule that was established by common consent of the Churche of England from which rule sayth he if any digresse they are none of our societie â—o more then Papists By which words is euident that his rule consisteth of the consent and establishment of certayne men in England what to belieue which is a different matter from scriptures though they wil say perhaps that in this establishment they folowed Scriptures as wil also the Puritanes and others that heere are excluded by this established rule And besyds this confession of O. E. himselfe there are many other conuincing reasons that this rule named by the Apostles was not â—cripture and among other this that eyther â—one or very litle of the newe Testament was written when this rule of fayth was published â—or no vse and practise among Christians as â—ppeareth by the often repetition therof made â—y the same Apostles afterward when they â—ame to write Wel then not to be longer for so much as this rule could not be onlie scripture the best way perhaps to vnderstaÌ„d what it was and is at this day wil be to heare some of the ancieÌ„t Fathers describe the same Holy Ignatius writing to the same Churche that S. Paul did a litle before cyted to wit Phil. 3. Igâ— â— epist. 〈◊〉 Philippenses to the Philippenses sayth id ipsum dicatis omnes idem sentientes in hoc ipso fidei regulas praeceptáque seruaui sicut Paulus erudâ—ens nâ—s dicit Do yow say and teach the selfe same and be of one iudgment for by this haue I obserued the rules of fayth as Paul instructing vs sayd Lo heere the iudgment of Ignatius who affirmeth him-selfe to haue obserued the rule of fayth for that he said and taught that which all said and taught and thought that which all thought and folowed no singularitie eyther of his owne or others Irenaeus calleth this rule the order of traditioâ— from the Apostles tyme to his Iren. aduers. haeres lib. 2. cap 3 4. The great estimation of â—he old rule of faith by which he sayth that all heretikes are conuinced in such sorte that Catholykes shut vp their eares as soone as they heare them speake contrarie to the said rule of vniuersal fayth deliuered by tradition from age to age Iren. ibid. Traditionem Apostolorum fayth he in toto mundo manifestatam in omni Ecclesia adeâ—â— perspicere omnibus qui vera velint audire c. We may see the tradition of the Apostles in euery Churche if we wil heare the truth and we can number those Bishops that were instituted by the Apostles and their successors vnto our dayes who taught not that which these heretikes dreame c. Thus said he accompting this rule to be the whole tradition of our Ancestors coÌ„ming downe by succession of Bishops and Pastors Terâ— lib. de praescript contr haeret cap. 27. To whom agreeth Tertullian presentlie after him calling this rule the fulnesse of the Apostles preaching si ergo incredibile est sayth he ignorasse Apostolos plenitudinem praedicationis vel omnem ordinem regulae omnibus non edidisse c. if it be incredible that the Apostles did not know the fulnes of the preaching of the ghospel or that they did not deliuer vnto all Christians all the order of the rule of beliefe c. And the same man in an other place Tert.
Caluyn in matter of the Queenes Supremacy which he denyeth Beza in the whole gouernment of their Churche Or why should I beleeue S. F. or his new masters of EnglaÌ„d rather theÌ„ these that were more learned then he or his or what reason rule or foundation haue any of these men to beleeue their owne opinion more then others but only self wil and fancy This then is the first and greatest spiritual benediction or malediction rather that I fynd to haue happened to our realme and nation by this wooful alteration of religion that wheras before we had a direct rule squyre pole-starre to follow which was the vniuersal Churche now euery man being set at liberty holdeth beleeueth and teacheth what he listeth Nor is there any way or meane left to restrayne him for straight way he appealeth bodlie and confidentlie to the Scriptures and there he wil be both maister and Pilot boteswayne him-self to gouerne the bark at his pâ—easure for he admitteth no iudge no interpreter no authoritie no antiquitie nor any other manner of tryal which is the greatest madnes and malediction that euer could happen among men of reason And the very same cause that moued the Warder to be so liberal then in setting downe this poynt hath moued me now to repeat the same againe in this place And what do yow think that the knight his champion haue replyed to all this playne and manifest demonstration would not yow think that both of them for their credits sake should haue buckled vp them-selues to ioyne in this yssue with the warder shewing what certainty they haue or which of the two wayes they wil take proposed by him seeing he sayth there are no other or that they should theÌ„-selues at least appoynt some other way but consider good reader the force of euident truth they are so blanked and their mouthes so shut vp with this interrogation of the warder as the K t. thought it best to passe it wholie ouer with silence as before hath byn touched The minister with more shame then the K t. hath tatled somwhat Idle tatling in a grauâ— question telling vs that our religion is not Catholyke that the vniuersal Church could not deliuer it vnto vs quia actiones sunt suppositorum as yow haue heard that StapletoÌ„ teacheth that the Churche hath power to proue taxe and consigne the books of holy Scripture And that vniuersal tradition is the most certayne interpreter therof And finally that the fayth of Papists is buylt vpon the Popes fancie and opinion and it is ful of nouelties and old heresies and the like as before yow haue heard All these tatlings he hath vpon this discourse before rehearsed of the warder and almost in as many words as I haue recyted theÌ„ but to the matter it selfe about certainty or vncertainty in religion ne griquidem he answereth no one word at all only to the later parte or appendix of the discourse where the warder sayth that to make the matter more playne how protestants haue no other rule of beleef he asketh S. F. not of any Catholyke Doctors nor auncient Fathers whome he esteemeth not but of their owne new Doctors Luther Caluyn Beza and the like authors of their owne sects why English Protestants at this day should preferre their owne iudgments before these also whom they graÌ„t to haue had great store of the holy ghost in all matters doctrines and interpretation of Scripture where they dissent from them To this I say all the other storme being past it seemed good to the minister to make his answere in these wordes But sayth this Noddy why should yow beleeue more your owne opinions then Caluyn concerning the Q. supremacy Luther concerning the Real presence and Beza in the Churche gouernment I answere first that these mennes priuate opinions concerne not fundamental poynts of fayth Pag. 21. A most foolish ansvvere of O. E. about Luther Caluyn c. and therfore they are not to be brought foorth for instance in this cause where we talk of the foundations and reasons of Christian fayth Marke wel his answere good reader iudge who is the noddy he sayth two things the one that the iudgments of Luther Caluin and Beza be but priuate opinions among them the other that the poynts wherin they differ from them to wit the real presence in the Sacrament her Ma ties Supremacy ecclesiastical and the whole gouernemeÌ„t of the Churche are no fundamental poynts of their faith For the first I would gladly know what authority is auayleable among them in teaching preaching and interpretation of Scriptures yf Luther Caluyn and Beza be reiected as priuate and particuler men where they differ from them our Doctors and Churche they do defy the ancient Fathers they look not willingly after them their owne parlament this maÌ„ sayth a litle before doth not appoynt but admit their religioÌ„ only who then is hee or who are they that must determine and defyne in this case For the second yf the difference with Luther about the real presence of Christs real body in the Sacrament be no fundamental poynt of fayth seing they accuse vs of the highest cryme vnder heauen about the same that is of idolatry and holding a creature to be the creator and we them againe of most heynous blasphemy highest wickednes vpon earth in discrediting Christ in his owne words that said it was his bodie his whole Church that euer so vnderstood him vnto this day yf the matter of supremacy be no fundamental poynt of fayth VVhat pointes are fundamental in protestants doctryne wherby all their ecclesiastical hierarchie standeth at this day in England as their Bishops Deanes Archdeacons and other prelates and parsons of the Spiritualty who otherwise must needs be playne intruders and meere lay men If their whole gouernmeÌ„t of their Churche be not fundamental wherof dependeth whether they haue any true ministers preachers and teachers lawfully allowed or no consequentlie whether their Sacraments be Sacraments and be administred by them that haue authoritie so to doe if all these poynts I say be not fundamental in O.E. opinion what are fundamental And what Atheisme doth this Martial minister diuels deane bring in vpon vs But beleeue me good reader these good fellowes do only eate of the ministerie and beleeue as please them and this being a compagnion of many occupations wil liue by that which wil yeild him most according to that also shal be his doctrine and beleef Of their great grand-father fryer Martyn Luther he sayth here in the words folowing his former answere Pag. â—1 O. E. his contemptious speach of Luther and Caluyn VVe suspend our opinion and giue no approbation to Luthers opinion concerning the carnal presence of Christs body in the Sacrament for that we see the doctrine to be newe and not taught by the Apostolyke Churche nay we find yt to be repugnant to the Apostles doctrine deliuered in Scriptures
try out truth among them after loÌ„g proof that Scripture alone wil not do it yf O. E. and his compagnions wil accept of his offer to go and pray with them in the feilds of Holland to stay the Sunne they may chance to agree together at the next new moone to whose wanes and changements I leaue both them and the progresse of their religion and meane only to say a fewe words more about the fruits of good works and temporal benedictions and so to end this first encounter wherin I haue byn ouer long already OF THE FRVITES OF vertue and good workes praetended to haue followed by change of religion as also of eyght temporal inconueniences which may be called curses or maledictions insued by thesame and how O.E. behaueth him selfe in this controuersye CAP. XVIII THow wilt not forget good reader I hope how in the tenth chapter of this Encounter we examined the fourth blessing of the new ghospel assigned by S.F. to be good lyfe En. 1. cap. 10. and holy woorks of Protestants aboue other men for otherwise it could be no special blessing of their ghospel where I shewed first that seing this blessing was testified only by them-selues not by their neighbours that liued with them and ought to feele the effectâ— of this blessing it was vayne and rather to be esteemed a brag then a blessing which I confirmed for that the warder comming to thâ— immediates and particulars wherin and bâ— what meanes good workes might be tryed discerned whether protestants or Catholykes abound more in them the K t. slippeth a syde and letteth passe the whole declaration of the warder without so much as a beck or nod at it for which respect I haue thought conuenieÌ„t to repeat thesame agayne in this place in the Warders owne words for that they are not many and to see at least what the Aduocate minister supplyeth for his ClieÌ„t the K t. in this behalf thus then wrote the warder After assurance stabilitie and vnion in beleef the next greatest spiritual benedictions that can be expected of any doctrine Pag. 6. VVhat effectes of vertue nevv religion hath vvrought are the good effects of vertue which it worketh in mennes mynds manners as it was foretold by Esay the Prophet that Christs doctrine should so alter mens conditions and natures that such as were most fearce sauadge and wicked before should by this doctrine become most humble Esa 11. kynd and gentle The wolfe sayth he shal dwel with the lambe and the parde shal lye with the goate the calfe lyon and sheep shal abyde together and a litle chyld shal be able to gouerne them all Wel then hath the protestants doctryn wrought these effects of peace meeknes manâ—uetude and agreement I haue touched beâ—ore the bloody tragedyes raysed in France â—landers Scotland and other places vpon the â—â—rst rising therof I might ad Switzerland and â—ermany where their owne stories do testifie â—â—at aboue a hundreth thousand people were â—ayne within one yeare by the rebellion and warres of the couÌ„trymen against their lordes Sledan for the controuersie of religion such humilitie obedience and meekenes of hart imprinted presentlie this new doctrine when it came But let vs see other effects Christs doctrine exhorteth to penance to mortification of the flesh to continency virginity fasting praying almes voluntarie pouerty renouncing of the world and the lyke Are there more of these effects now adayes in England or before or are their more in Syr. F. and his men then in ours doth he and his ghospellers pay their debts better then Catholykes doe or keep better houses or more hospitalitie or rayse their rents lesse or take lesse fynes or vse their tenants better or lend their neighbours more money without vsurie or do they help to marrie more poore mennes daughters and other such lyke good works of charitie Is pryde in apparel gluttony dronkennesse lecherie swearing and forswearing couetousnes crueltie falshood deceipt theeuerie lack of conscience oppressing of poore men more or lesse now adayes in vre or before when yet this change was not made Let S. F. answere me to this and not he only but the whole country round about him and then let him tel me with witnesses whether they be spiritual blessings or curses that haue ensued vpon this change of religion so much commended by him and so I shal passe to weigh his temporal benedictions which perhaps he esteemeth farre more theÌ„ these spiritual Thus he To all this treatie of the fruits of vertue vertuous lyfe in Protestants S. F. answereth not so much as one lyne and therfore his prating Proctor to helpe out his maister must needs bestyrre him-selfe to say som-what but how fit to the purpose and state of the question his owne words shal shew for thus he beginneth Pag. 23. I answere sayth he that the doctrine of the ghospel hath wrought good effect in all true Christians and albeit euery one do not so square their liues according to Gods lawe as they should yet compart our people with the Papists nay with the Priests and Popes them-selues whom they call most holy * For his office and not for his person I make no question but they do sarre excel them Loe heere this fellow is quick and resolute he maketh no question of that which is most in question or rather which is all the question whether protestants in all countryes where they lyue be of better lyues generally then Catholykes or that which is the same in effect but yet more easie to be discerned whether the world since the rising of Luther and Caluins new doctrine which this man calleth the ghospel Sup. cap 17. nu 10. though before he haue coÌ„demned the same in diuers poyntes as yow haue heard the manners of men haue byn generally better or worse for that according to the warders discoursâ— Christs owne words true religâ—on and reformation bringeth euer with it better lyfe and behauiour of men this then is the true state of the question whether protestants religion haue done this or no wherof we haue shewed the negatiue part before out of their owne wryters and the meanest man woman or chyld that lyueth at this day yf they haue heard of things past or can behold matters present with any iudgement wil easely discerne Yet this resolute Minister as yow see maketh no question to the contrarie and so from this general assertion passeth on to prayse exceedinglie the clemencie and vertue of protestant Princes and then turneth he to the contrarie which is his only plausible common place to dilate and delight him-selfe I meane against Rome and her Popes But the whorish synagoge sayth he of Rome yow must not maruaile of the speech for that whores and knaues in his ministerie do ofteÌ„ meet shee is red with the blood of saincts no tyger was euer more fearce and cruel Thus in general and then layeth he load vpon Popes Card.
diuersity of religion in England hath byn cause of the warres and tumults round about vs which yet Fraunce Flaunders and Scotland do testifie how true or false it is or that any doleful alteratioÌ„s haue byn made at home which he saith is lyke that the warder â—eemeth to haue byn hired to speak in a lamentable voice and to shed some few teares for compassion of the domages receyued both by cleargy and nobility and the deathes of so many Priests as haue byn executed for religion which he with a loÌ„g ydle discourse wil needs goe about to prooue that they were truly traytors both by our common ciuil and imperial lawes But this extrauagant excursion of his about those late martyrs I am to answere afterward more at large in his new chalenge wheras he maketh this one of his articles that our Priests dy not for religion but for treason And albeit future ages wil be more indifferent iudges in this matter as more free from passion therin yet to vnderstand better the state of the question I would aske of this wyse states-man lawyer as he maketh him-selfe who both heere and euery where els calleth me noddy whether yt be lawful to all sâ—ates hauing taken to them-selues a forme of religion to make any articles of the opposite religion matters of trâ—ason And whether yt had byn lawful to Catholyks in Q. Maries dayes so to haue done against protestants and whether the treasons so made be true and properly treasons and the offenders rightly to be called traytors And when he hath answered me this VVhether our Priests be traytors or martyrs and I shal haue prooued to him out of their owne wryters and chroniclers as I can and by their owne publyke records that this is the state of our question with them that many or most of our Priests haue byn executed only for those articles of treason that were so made then wil yt be easy to iudge and discerne what kynd of traytors they are who for those transgressions haue byn put to death and executed Then wil all this vayne fellowes babling out of books of imperial and comon lawes about treasons of other kynds be quite cut of and proued childish and to no purpose Wherfore to draw at length to an end of this Encounter I doubt not good Readers but thow doest see by thy wisdome how not-with-standing the double reply made by the K â— and minister the warders discourse about these blessings and curssings remayneth yet whole and firme And albeit the minister hath brought more words theÌ„ the K t. yet no more substance but rather lesse and both of them much fraud and folly as in the admonition following in part shal appeare THE VVARNING and admonition to Sir F. H. and his frendes as also to his aduocate proctor O. E. vpon the first Encounter of blessings CHAP. XIX AND now for the conclusion of this Encounter I think is not amisse to the end that this my answere and reioynder which I call a Warn-word may do his duty and performe so much as the name and title importeth I am to bestow vpon the K t. in this place a breife and frendly admonition or warning wherby he may him-self yf passion wil suffer him to see the truth or others at least wayes that are more indifferent lesse passionate in the cause then he coÌ„sider the difference of our manner of proceeding in this affayre to wit the plaine and round dealing on our side going directly to the matter and the shifting and shufling on his to auoyde due trial and how that with no probability of reason or truth can he stand in the controuersy taken in hand of his blessings brought in by change of religioÌ„ his defence wherof is so impertinent false and from the matter as before yow haue seene yet for better memories sake and for some aduertisment to the K t. to look ouer his owne faults I shal breefly heere put him in mynd of that which hath passed in this Encounter First the charge of notorious flattery in bragging of so many blessings come to England by change of religion seemeth to ly stil vpon him more heauy then before for that he hath answered substantially to noe one argument of his aduersary to the contrary and the shift of passing ouer whole treateses and discourses of the warder yea foure or fiue as is prooued without any reply or mention Cap. 1â— argueth great weaknes in his cause The other shift also of excusing his flattery by the flattery of Canonists yf it were true is very vayne and ridiculous The new ten deuised blessings are such so poore Nevv deuised blessings as noe man would haue brought them in but he that eyther for lack of iudgment decerneth not what is for him nor what is against him or whome necessity forceth to expose him-selfe to the laughter of all men For who wil not laught to see vnity brought in for a blessing among protestants that cold neuer yet agree in the poynts of their religion nor euer wil or can and whose badge of dissension and disagreement is so notorious aboue all other heretyks before them Vid. cap. 3. â— 5. 6. Who wil not laugh also and bite his lip to see good woorks abstayning from persecution assigned for two other peculiar blessings considering what passeth in England and what in other countreys I passe our the rest as false or foolish or both vntil I come to the tenth that is copious generation of children which in respect of the marriage of their friars monks ministers we yeild vnto them but deny it to be a blessing especially to those parishes that by force are coÌ„strayned to maintayne their copious brood of spring to this I cal to witnesse the Churche-wardens parishioners This then is folly to bring in such sorts and sutes of blessings as euery chyld may see there vanity and laugh at them But that which ensueth of frauâ— fleights and deceyts is farre worse Variety of shifts which may be discouered by the variety of shifts noted in his whole discourse as namely that which was last recyted of passing ouer and dissembling all his aduersaryes principal arguments reasons allegations without mention at all or els mentioning them only in a word or two without further answere in lyke manner his not quoting places of books or chapters of the authors which he cyteth when he wil deceaue is a new trick neuer vsed perhaps before by any that hath written of controuersies though the other of misalleadging corrupting peruerting forcing them against their owne expresse meaning hath I grant byn vsed by diuers and cheefly by the patrons and grandsyres of English protestancy Vid. cap. 9. 10. Iewel and Fox whome this man principally followeth but yet so as he out goeth his maister yf it may be in that art as by the examples alleadged before of abusing S. Hierome S. Augustine S.
before or is it strange that he should pretend to come to this new light by reading Scriptures what other pretence did euer auncient heretyke or new take vpon him or what other excuse could this man make of running out of his Cloister or taking a sister to his Compagnion or from a Iudge of heretykes while he was a Dominican fryar to become an heretyke himselfe as appeareth plainly by Fox his whole discourse though S. F. so telleth the tale as he could be content we thought him to be a great learned Catholyke and for that cause betweene Ihon Fox and him they haue â—octored the poor fryar without euer heaâ—ing him dispute much lesse do his act only â—o geue him more reputation and reuerence with the reader And on the other syde they do bring in the â—rch-bishop of Aix who was against him and calleth him wicked Apostata to speak most absurdly though he were knowne to be a most reuerend and learned man and among other wordes they make him say thus This doctrine is contrarie to our holy Mother the Churche and to oâ—r holy Father the Pope a most vndoubted and true God in earth And did not those haynous woords deserue I pray yow some quotation where they might be found but neyther the K t. nor the Fox vouchsafeth vs so muche but as though the matter were most certaine the K t. braueth in a marginal note with these woordes O blyndnes O blasphemy But a man might more iustly say O cogging O cosenage that dare auouche so horrible a slaunder against so honorable a personage without cyting the place or Author for the iustification But we must passe ouer many of these absurdities with patience so go on to other matter HOVV LONG THE CAtholyke Romayn Religion hath florished in England of the authoritie of S t. Bede Arnobius abused by Sir F. togither with a comparison examined betwene our learned men and those of the Protestants and first of Ihon Husse bragged of by Syr Francis CAP. III. AFTER this the K t. before he come to answere in particuler to the vntruthes obiected against him wil needs say somewhat to those woords of myne that aboue a thowsand yeares the State of Enâ—land and the Princes peoplâ— nobilitie and learned men therof had contâ—nued in that Egyptian or rather Chimerian darcknes VVast-vvord Pag. 34. which he describeth vnder Clowdes Mystes and Shadowes vntil his new Sunshine Doctors came in c. Which woords of myne he hauing corruptly alleaged as often his fassion is sayth two things first that my bold assertioÌ„ of a thowsaÌ„d yeares is vayne for that yt is euident by Bedes playne testimonie that in his tyme this Iland had the Scriptures in their owne language as though this only were sufâ—icient to make that age to be oâ— Protestants Religion though it had byn so and the second that we do secretly yeild the first 600. yeres after Christs to Protestants seing we challenge commonly but a thowsand for our selues But by this last point to answere this first yow may see how wise an Answerer this is seing that when we name a thowsand yeares we vnderstand from the first conuersion of our English nation vnder Gregory the first Protestants religion in no age which no man can doubt of but yf syr F. wil goe higher vnder the Britans we shal easely also shew the lyke in that tyme. But in the meane space yt is but a hungry trick of this needy knight to snatch that which is not giueÌ„ him to wit 600. yeres together of the primitiue Churche wherof our meaning is to giue him no one yeare nor half one wherin his Religion was extant or had any one that professed the same in those daies as he doth now Enc. 7. c. 4 5.6.7.8-9 this I shal largely proue declare afterward and this to the second point But now to the first point of proof alleaged out of S t. Beede yf it were true as Syr. F. citeth thesame surely knights should haue truth in their allegations to wit that Scriptures were in those dayes read by some people in their vulgar languages and tongues which Bede nameth yet were yt nothing against vs who do vse thesame libertie and haue done in all ages to permit some vulgar translations for suche as are thought meet to profit Enc 1.8 infra cap. 5. and not to take hurt therby as before hath byn declared and after shal be shewed more at large But now yow must vnderstand that this playne and euident testimony of S. Bede which Syr F. braggeth of but quoteth yt not as commonly his shift is when he would not haue matters examâ—ned or his fraud found out this place I say of Bede which he alleageth is quite contrary to him for this sayth Bede Beda lib. 1. hist Angl. cap. 1. Haec in praesenti â—uxta numerum librorum quibus lex diuina scripta est quinque gentium linguis vnam eandemque summae veritatis verae sublimitatis scientiam seruatur confitetur Anglorum vz Britonum Scotorum Pictorum Latinorum quae in meditatione Scripturarum caeteris omnibus est facta communis c. This Iland at this present according to the number of the fyue Bookes wherin the law was written by Moyses doth in fyue tonges search owt and confesse one and the self same knowlege of the highest truth A notable abusing of S. Bedes authoritie and of the true highnes which is the Religion of Christ Iesus to wit the tongue of the Angles or Englishmen of the Britans of the Scots of the Pictes and of the Latines or relykes of the Romanes which Latyn tougue ys now made common to all the rest in meditation of the Scriptures Thus sayth Bede wherin 3. things are to be obserued first that all thâ—se fyue nations lyuing together in one Iland and in continual enmitie and warres in other pointes yet in Religion and profession of one truthe they all agreed which sheweth notably the vnitie of Catholyke doctrine euen among enemies and ouerthroweth that fond fiction of protestaÌ„ts who in all their bookes giue out and auow especially Fox and Hollinshed that the religion of the Britans was different from that which S. Augustine the Monke brought in from Rome to the English nation Fox monu pag 107.108 Hoâ—â—nâ—h des crip Angl. Cap. 9. Secondly yt is â—o be noted that since the new Religion of Protestants came vp though all the â—â—and aâ—most be of one tonge throughly frends in othâ—r matterâ— yet in points or Religion they agree not as in Bedes tyme when they were enemies which is the vertue of their vnitie And thirdly may be noted the euil dealing of Syr F. himself aâ—so who in this place sticketh not to auowche to the Reader that by these woords of Bede it is euident and plaine that the Scriptures were now in all these fyue tonges where as S. Bede sayth the quite contrary to wit that the
Latyn tongue was made common to all fyue nations in the meditation of the Scriptures which could not be spokeÌ„ to any purpose yf the Scriptures had byn common to all before in their languages so that S. Bedes meaning must needes be that albeit all fyue tongues confessed one and the selfsame highest truthe in one Catholyk Christian Religion yet in reading and meditation of scriptures and diuine seruice the Latyn toÌ„gue was the common toÌ„gue This is his plaine sense though as I haue said I doubt not but that in those dayes there might be some Catholyke traÌ„slations into the vulgar tongues permitted then and after also as in tyme of K. Edgar and other Kinges we read of and after that againe vnder K. Edward the 3. Thomas Arundel Archbishop of CaÌ„terbury permitted and appoâ—nted the same â—n a Synod hoâ—den at Oxford Linvvod l. 5. de Magistris Hovv som vulgar translations of Scriptures vvas alvvayes permitted and in all Catholyk tymes after that againe were neuer forbidden all vuâ—gar tranâ—â—ations wholy but to be vsed with such prudence and moderation among the ignorant rude people as might do good no hurt Wherfore yt was not needful that Syr F. should aduenture to shame himself by abusing S. Bedes name and woords to proue a thing that we deny not though in the sense he would haue yt we say yt is most false to wit that Scriptures were publikly and promiscuously red in vulgar tonges at that tyme so sayth S. Bede also and beâ—ng an Englishman himself as he was might haue an action of force yf not of forgery against Syr F. for that he hath wrested him against his owne playne meaning as might Arnobius also whom the K t. cyteth a litle after in the next page against the Christian vse of Images for that in his bookes aduersus gentes which title he cuÌ„ningly omitted least it should discouer his fraud for that Arnobius speaketh against heathenish Idols and not Christian Images he detesteth sayth our K t. Simulachra Deos malleis fabricatos Idols Gods of Gentils made with hammers Arnobius abused by Syr F. VVast-vvord Pag. 35. But what ys this to Christian Images which are no Idols and what dealing is this what cosenage in a K t. what violent laying of handes on Authors against their owne sense and meaning vpon Gods seruants contrary to their owne intentions what author may may not be abused by this boldnes what wryter may not be wrested against himself when that their woords expresly vttered against gentils and Heathens be impudently vrged against that Christian Religion which themselues professed But let vs permit this shift to the Protestants pouertie and so go on There remayneth yet one shift more which is nothing els indeed but a certayne pettie cauil picked by those woords of myne before rehearsed That England was accompted vnder those mists and clowds wherof Syr F. talketh for as wyse learned valiant noble and florishing a Kingdome as France Italy Spayne and other Catholyke Kingdomes be at this day where yf any one of these our inlightened and sunshined Ministers which Syr F. braggeth much to haue enlightened the world should appeare he would not dare to open his mowth in Schooles and matters of learning c. To this the K t. answereth two things first that Rome also when yt was heathen was as wyse learned and valiant and yet was yt in darcknes of Religion A meere cauil which I denie not but yt was not as wyse and learned in Christian religion nor in comparison of other Christian Kingdomes as I compared England with France Spayne Italy other such states in respect of darcknes mysts and clowds which Syr F. would lay vpon yt So as both the matter subiect and obiect being changed in the comparison no maruaile though yt hold not and yt is called among Logicians a fallacie or elenchus and in English a cauil and this to the first shift vsed by him The second point which he answereth ys that my vaunt of vnmachable learning on our syde as he teaâ—meth it ys vayne and childish and that our diuinitie is clowdy and owle-lyke diuinitie yf his Ministers can not vnderstand yt as I sayd in the wardword they did not and then for the proof of the great learning on his syde he alleageth the offers of disputation made by Iohn Husse at the councel of Constance and by Martyn Luther at Wormes and Augusta and of Symon Grinaeus at Spire and of Beza with others at Poysie in France To the first point of which reply I answere that for comparison of learning in Protestants and Catholyks I remit me to the proof and iudgment of the wyse that shal read the books and woorks of both sydes for better or briefer trial then this we can not assigne seing they flie the publyke trial of equal disputation which so often we haue desyred and offred though their maner of teaching hauing excluded all substantial and scholastical method and matter out of their Schooles doth easely shew and conuince the same Wherfore to the second point answered by Syr F. I say that if yt follow that our diuinity is therfore to be accompted clowdy owle-lyke for that his Ministers can not vnderstand yt then are all other good scieÌ„ces also in a pittiful case wherof for the most part they are ignorant this a new consequence or kynd oâ— argument inuented by our knight A foolish consequence of the Kt. that lack of â—earnâ—ng should be attributed rather to the obscuritie oâ— the artes and sciences then to the defect of such as want them To the third point wherein Syr F. alleageth the disputatioÌ„ of Iohn Husse Martyn Luther Symon Grinaeus and others seing he cyteth no Author at all to iustifie his vayne assertion therin as his maner is when he would not haue his matters examined I had thought once to haue sayd nothing The story of Ihon Husse his disputation at the councel of constance but considering on the other side his boâ—d impudencie in auouching things playne opposite to the relation of all Authors that wrote in those dayes when the thinges them-selues fel owt I can not choose but shake him also here by the sleue to see whether he wil blush or any frend of his for him at this shamles dealing which I am to discouer First where as he wryteth that Iohn Hus came to the councel of constance there to defend publikly his assertions VVastvvord Pag. 37. and that those graue Fathers did learnedly refute him by clapping him in prison loding him with chaines and fetters and condemned him not only not being conuicted Tomo 4. concil Pag. 313. Aen. Sil. hist. Bohem. c. 36. Io. Dub. li 24. Iohn Cochl lib. 2. but not so much as heard c. This I say is to to shamles yf we wil beleue eyther the acts and records of the councel yt self yet exstant or the grauest Authors that haue written since
tam quod ad Thessalonicenses vt ipsius solis radio putem scriptum Ibid c 47. ita clareâ— qualtter acciptant Luci fugae isti scripturarum Go to then how wil these scripture-bats the heretiks vnderstand this place of S. Paule to thâ— Thessalonians though it be so cleare as I may think it to be wrytten with the very beame of the Sunne it self Here then yow see that heretikes are noâ— noted or called night-battes by Tertullian foâ— flâ—ing the reading of Scriptures as this faiâ—â— lad would perswade his Reader but ratheâ— the quite contrarie that reading and bragginâ— of Scriptures more then others Hovv heretiks â—re scripture bats yet are theâ—â— so blynd in the true light therof througâ— their owne pryde and malice as they fly the true sense and interpretation heâ—d by the Catholike churche as night-bats do the cleere day light and shynâ—ng of the Sunne which Tertuâ—â—â—an in the forenamed book of praescription and els where doth largely declare and it is our complaint also against Sectaries of our tyme who swarmâ—ng ouer scriptures like blynd bats in the darcknesse of theyr owne passions and imaginations and flyeng the light of auncient doctors and Churches interpretations do break their owne heades and necks of entymes vpon scripture walles in respect wherof thesayd Tertullian in this very book by O.E. alleaged concludeth thus and therein giueth vs good counsel saying â—ecundum praetudicta tot authoritatum scripturas inâ—â—lligi oportebit Ibid. c. 18. non secundum ingenia haereâ—â—corum de â—â—la incredulitaâ—e vementiae Scriptures must be vnderstood according to the fore established iudgments of so many authorities as I haue now alleaged and not according to the wits or wrangling inclinations of heretiks which proceed coÌ„monly of only incredulitie which â—s asmuch to say as that the natures of heretikes being inclyned to incredulytie not to beleue what the authoritie of the Catholike Churche hathe set downe before them they seek to draw the interpretation of scriptures to their owne phansyes Thus wryteth he and his reason is for that heretiks reading scriptures with curiosytie for feeding their owne humors and being bound to no rule or prescriptioÌ„ of interpretations but to take and leaue or like at their pleasures commonly their wits guyded by humaine spirit inclyne to incredulitie calling in question what others haue held or beleued before them and shaking of the foundations of all former belief by their new quarrelling and whether the Sectaries of our tyme haue done this or no by their much reading and tossing of scriptures let experience teache vs. And this shal suffice for this place THE SECOND PART of this Encounter contayning foure absurd groundes of Catholike religion fayned by Sir frauncis and first whether ignorance be the mother of deuotion as also about the controuersy of fides explicita implicita CAP. VII WE haue byn occupied hitherto about so many other falshoodes and vntruthes of these our aduersaries vttered in their preambles as we haue not byn able to come to the principal subiect of this EncouÌ„ter which is a quadruple number of absurd grounds positions which the knight affirmeth vs to hold for general grounds and Maximes of our religion wherof the first and ring leader is that ignorance is the mother of deuotion which he vttereth in these woords VVatch. p. 17 The first forged position In these darck and clowdy dayes saith he least the Sunshine of knowlege should disperse the mystes of ignorance and giue light to the dymme of sight this position was set downe for their Maxime or rule infallible that ignorance is the mother of deuotion that the sacred woord of God which was giuen to be a Lanterne to all our feet and a light to our steps was forbidden to the lay sorte for so they called them as matter vnfit for them to looke into To which the warder beginneth his answere thus How manifest a falshood it is that reading of scriptures is forbâ—dden to all lay men is sufficiently shewed by that which goeth before VVard p. 17. for in any of the three learned tonges any lay man or woman may read them at their pleasure and in vulgar translations also suche as haue lycens and I thinke Sir Frauncis wil not deny that many of the laytie vnderstand Latin How then and with what face complayneth he so piteously or rather hypocritically that the sacred woord of God which was giuen to be a lanterne to our fâ—ete c was forbidden to the lay sort To this interrogatioÌ„ of the warder Sir FrauÌ„cis replieth now noe one syllable more then before is sayd VVhether ignorance be the mother of deuotion And further where as the warder chargeth him sorely with malepart ignorance for scoffing at the woord laymen and aâ— the distinction betwene Laytie and Cleargie and by this occasion sheweth the true meaning of those woords with the auncient begynning vse and practize of the primitiue Churche out of Origen Epiphanius Hierome and diuers other fathers doctors general CouÌ„cels the patient knight dissembleth all this according to the first shift discouered in the beginning Sir F. and O. E. do flie shamfully and saith nothing at all to it neither doth his Proctor O. E. helpe him out herein with any one woord though woords be very good cheape with him After this the warder cometh to the positioÌ„ it self saying But we deny this Maxime or infallible rule to be ours and do say that it is your calumniation only and not our position and that among vs it is neither Maxime noâ— Minime And for yow to proue it a Maxime yow must shew that all Catholykes or the most part do hold it and to proue it a Minime at least yow must shew that some one doth hold it neither of which yow can euer doe and so yow remayne disgraced Thus said he what answereth Sir F. Thus VVast pag. 47. A strange accusation and grieuous slaunder no doubt to charge those men with nourishing the people in ignorance whom all the world knoweth to haue vsed strange meanes to bring them to knowlege For what meant they by the costly setting vp of many faire and wel guylded Images in Churches was it not that they might be lay mennes bookes and by reading on them they might attaine knowlege To this I answere first that this proof is far of from shewing that it is a Maxime and infallible rule among vs that ignorance is the mother of deuotion why is not this proued especially seing S r. F. is required in honor to do it Is the running to the controuersy of Images a sufficient discharge for this Doe not all men see this kynd of shifting But let vs say somewhat to his instance of faire guilded Images as though they made to his purpose First then I say that those faire Images of Christ and his Saints against which he enueigheth if they be ioyned with other instruments of light instruction as are preaching teaching
Berraea had great reason to searche diligently â—hose places of scriptures to see whether they were so as the Apostles alleaged and interpreted or no and for that the controuersy was not so muche about the woords as the sense and interpretation it is euident that they were of their learned men that took this searche in hand not vulgar people wherof our controuersy is and so muche do the precedent woords of the text cleerly shew if S. F. after his fraudulent manner had not cut them of and dissembled them for thus saith the text of S. Luke Fratres autem confestim c. The brethren out of hand conuayed by night Paul and Silas from the persecution of Thessalonica vnto the towne of Beâ—â—â— Act 17. where being ariued they entred into the Synagog of the Iewes and these were the most noble of them tâ—at dâ—e in Thessalonia who receiued the woord with all gâ—â—â—dines searching dayly the Scriptures if these things alleaged out of the Prophets about Christ by Paul and Siâ—as were so or noe This is the placeâ— Now let the discreet reader waigh prudently whether S.F. haue behaued himself knightlikâ— heer or no first in cutting of these woord which most cleered the doubt to wit thaâ— these were no vnlearned Iewes but no bilioâ—es â— saith the text that is the most principal amoÌ„g them and then in making so impertinent â—illation that for so much as these principâ—â— learned Iewes did in that particuler occasâ—â—â— searche some places of Scriptures therâ—â—â—â— must all our lay peeple read of necessity 〈◊〉 make themselues iudges of their ordinaâ—â— teachers and Pastors To the second place of trying spirits whether they be of God or no I would aske the K t. whether there be no other way or meanes of trying spirits but by remitting all sorts of people to the scriptures and those in vulgar languages About trâ—eng af spiâ—its for if there be any other meanes then it is absurd to tie the Apostles counsel of trying spirits to euery mans reading of scriptures where the trial being remitted to eache maÌ„nes owne interpretation wil â—al out so difficultas no end can be expected For I would aske our K t. for examples sake when wil two women accusing one the other of a scolding spirit try out the truth of eache ones spirit by their owne readâ—ng scriptures especially if there he no Iudge nor the coocking stoole at hand Or to take some greater example when â—il any two Sectaries as Brownistes and any other of our tyme contending about heretical spirits try thesame by scriptures yea though â—hey be of the learneder sorte doth not this â—ppeare by experience dayly and how much â—esse then caÌ„ vnlearned people trie their owne â—r other mens spirits by reading scriptures in â—ulgar languages And with this I would leaue the K t. in this â—oint but that he abuseth so egregiously a â—â—ace of S. Chrisostome to wrest him to some â—ew of his purpose S. Chrysostome notably abused the Kt. as I can not omit to disâ—â—uer it to the reader wherby he may see â—ith what consciences these men treat matâ—â—rs of religion vsing legerdemain in euery â—ing and this not of error or ignorance but of knowne and set malice to deceaue which trick whensoeuer good reader thow doest discouer plainly in any wryter though it were but once yet oughtest thow neuer to trust him againe but much more here in this our controuersy where so often I haue shewed thesame most euidently both in the K t. and his Minister O. E. and the rest But now to the place it self He wil needs make S. Chrisostome to be of his opinion for permitting scriptures in vulgar languages to all sortes of people and that they both learned and vnlearned must examine and discusse all their controuersies thereby Heare his woords S. Chrisostome saith he thinketh it an absurd thing that all men should not thus medle with religion Pag. 53. Quomodo absurdum non est c. VVhat an absurdity is that for money we trust not other men but count it and tel it after them Chris. in 2. Cor. hom 13. but for more excellent things simply to follow other mens sayings especially fith we haue the exactest rule and ballance of all the testimony of the Law of God therfore I pray and beseech yow that yow wil leaue what this and that man thinketh enquire all things of the Scriptures Thus relateth he S. Chrisostome wherein truly there are so many fraudes and shifteâ— vsed to make S. Chrisostome seme of his opinion as is strange in a man of any honor or shamfastnes and the greatest fraud oâ— all is to peruert S. Chrisostoms whole meaning and discourse who handling this argumeÌ„t in the later part of his 13. Homely which he calleth the Moralitie of that he had said before S. ChrisostoÌ„s vvhole argument peâ—uerted to wit pauperem meliori esse conditione quam diuitem that the poor man is in better stare then the riche and he prefixeth these woords for the title of the Chapter which being a Christian Paradox as yow see he prosecuteth thesame most earnestly and piously through out the whole Chapter shewing the perils of the riche security of the poor with many other differences and that we must not in this point follow the common opinion of wordly men that esteme riches for great felicity but attend rather what the lawes and rules of Christ do teache vs and finally he concludeth Ibidem Quae cum ita fint vulgi opiniones ne circumferamus Sed res ipsas expeÌ„â—amus An non enim absurdum praeposterum fuerit nos cum de pecunijs agitar alijs fidem non habere Sed numero calâ—ulo id coâ—â—attere cum autem de rebus iudicandum est in alâ—oâ—um opiniones temere ac velut obtorto collo trahi â—â—que cum exactam rerum omnium lancem amussim baâ—eamus nempe deuinarum legum Sententiam Quoâ—â—â—avos omnes rogo atque obsecâ—o vt quid hic auâ— ille deâ—â—â—â— rebus sential nihil morantes Scripturas sacras â—de en consulatis ac quae verae sint opes cognâ—scatis which woords truly englished do sound thus Which things concerning trueâ—riches and pouertie seing they are so as I haue before declared let vs not carry about with vs the opinions of vulgar men The true interpretation of S. Chrisostomes vvoords but let vs examine thinges as they be in themselues for were it not an â—bsurd preposterous thing when we deale in money matters not to trust other men but to tel and compt it and when we are to iudge of thinges themselues to suffer vs rashly and as it were with a wry neck to be drawe into other meÌ„nes opinions especially where as we haue that exact ballance rule square of all thinges which is the sentence or determination of Gods lawes Wherâ—ore I do pray beseech yow all that in these things yow wil not stand vpon
their orders inioyned and comaunded in such reuerence and regard must he and his Cleargie be had that the meanest maspriest coming with authority from him must be obeyed vnder payne of damnation though he command that which is blasphemous before God in christians and disloyal to men in subiects Impudent calumniatioÌ„ This is his narration From which saith the Warder yf we separate a manifestly or two with some fond exaggerations for without this kynd of leuen the poor knight can make no batch as for example that the Pope and his Cleargy must be obeyed though they commaund blasphemies against God and disloyalty against princes which is a 〈…〉 disobedience yf 〈…〉 order inioyned by th◠〈…〉 and the like 〈…〉 ouerlashings of the 〈…〉 obiecteth is rather 〈…〉 religion then any reproch at all For in that he saith we obey the meanest priest as the highest yf he come with authority of the highest he sheweth therby that we haue among vs true obedieÌ„ce and subordination and that for conscience sake not respecting so much the person that commaundeth as him for whome in whose name and authority he comandeth and therin we fulfil the precept of S. Paul Hebr. 1â— Obedite praepositis vestris subiacete eis ipsi enim peruigilant quasi rationem pro animabus vestris reddituri Obey your Prelats and humble your selues vnto them he distinguisheth not betwene high and low for they keep diligent watch ouer your soules as men that must render account therof to God And in other places he saith that this obedience must be with such reuerence Ephes. â— humility and inward affection as vnto Christ himself whose substitutes our spiritual Superiors be though neuer so meane or contemptible in mannes sight Thus it was answered then by the warder and more also added to that purpose out of diuers places of scriptures And how replyeth Syr F. now Can he defend these ouerlashing speeches Can he shew that any one Cathol wryter that euer put pen to paper held this most absurd ground The knight is vrged to aunsvver that he setteth downe 〈…〉 when 〈…〉 almightie God 〈…〉 vpon him 〈…〉 Now he should 〈…〉 substantially he 〈…〉 proof wherof saith he that which your owne men haue wrytten of the infinit power of the Pope may abundantly suffice namely though all the world iudge in any matter against him yet we ought to stand to the iudgmeÌ„t of him c. And whosoeuer is not obedient to the lawes of the Churche of Rome must be denied an heretike c. And though he draw infinite soules with him to hel yet no man may presume to say why do yow thus c. Lo heer good reader what maner of proof this knight bringeth First new assertions as idle and doubtful as the first and cytheth no one author in the margent where these things are to be found or discussed And secondly yf all were true this proueth the greatnesse only of the Popes authority to edificatioÌ„ not to destruction to good not to euil albeit the last point wherin he affirmeth that no man may say to the Pope why do yow thus though he draw infinite soules with him into hel it being an ordinary comon place as wel to all wryters and wranglers in their books as preachers praters against the Pope in their pulpits we shal examin the same afterwards towards the end of this Chapter against the minister O.E. for that he vouchsafeth to cyte some author for the same though falsly and fraudulently as yow shal see Now then let vs heare how our knigh◠〈…〉 the premises 〈…〉 And your holy 〈…〉 to tell vs in his 〈…〉 mory that Christ 〈…〉 Paul but him that 〈…〉 this diuinity we must obey â—â—â— Pope whatsoeuer Petâ—â— and Paul teach vs to the contrary And this I hope is a sufficient iustification of my accusation c. Lo how roundly he riddeth himself But yet note good reader 4. points of Syr F. diuinity out of this one sentence with a preface conuenient thervnto 〈…〉 kind of 〈…〉 His preface consisteth in qualifying the wrytings of D. Harding and M. Iewel calling the former an inuectiue and the later of blessed memory wheras all learned men that haue read the same with indifferency and diuers great protestants also conuerted by that reading wil and do testifie the contrary to wit that D. Hardings wryting against Iewel especially his last book called D. Hardinges vvorkes against Iuel The returne of vntruthes was rather a coÌ„uictiue then an inuectiue leauing M. Iewel with the commendation rather of a lying then blessed memory And so I dare auouch that any maÌ„ shal find him who hath tyme learning store of books patience indifferency to read and examin him Now then let vs examin the foure points before mentioned wherof the first is his ordinary slieght wherby he alleageth D. Hardings assertion about S. Peter S. Paul without telling vs where to the end that the truth of this citation may not be examined and for that 〈…〉 playing 〈…〉 iustly suspect 〈…〉 the proposition 〈…〉 which is as 〈…〉 of vs now not â—◠〈…〉 sitteth in their chaire Which if it be to 〈◊〉 S. Peter S. Paul being now absent cannot personally determine all matters as when they were here in earth but haue left their successors in their place to be obeyed as themselues Why should this propositioÌ„ so much mislike our K t Sure I am that he dareth not deny the same or equiualeÌ„t therof in the magistrats of diuers citties Princes teÌ„poral successors And yf a man for examples sake should aske him whether God do commaund English men at this day to obey the Queene that now raigneth in matters belonging to her gouernment or rather VVilliam Conquerour first founder of this Monarchie or K. Henry the 8. her Ma ties Father and so in other Princes as whether the present K. of France be to be obeyed and respected or Hugo Capetus the first founder of his house No man wil doubt but that present Princes and gouernors are to be obeyed And yf in temporal successors this be to be obserued why not also in spiritual Is the K t. so simple as he seeth not the coÌ„uenience of this matter and that gouernours present and not past are to be repayred vnto for present resolution and decision of affayres If God in his Churche had willed men to obey S. Peter and S. Paul 〈…〉 wils 〈…〉 not known 〈…〉 expres writings 〈…〉 only their epistles 〈…〉 world nor were other 〈…〉 gouernors nor yet wrytings needful whiâ—â— yet is most absurd in all mennes sights for that all causes incident are not determined in S. Peter and S. Paul their epistles nor can all men read and vnderstand them and consequently is needful the authority of a present gouernour sâ—tting in their chayre and hauing thesame authority that they had which we beleeue to be in the Pope for necessary gouernment of the Churche Thirdly then consider
〈…〉 to agree about the poysoning of 〈…〉 wheras no one of them holdeth it 〈…〉 contrary as yow haue hard But how then commeth in this 〈…〉 cal story so much vrged and diligenâ—t thâ— forth by Iohn Fox in his lying acts and 〈…〉 Yow may read in Iohn Stow 〈◊〉 the place alleadged the first author therof for it was an author without a name whichâ— wrote about a hundred and seuentene yeares agoe and took vpon him to continew the fabulous story of Geffrey of Monmouth among infinite other fables telleth also this of King Iohns poysoning as he receyued it by some vulgar report The book was caused to be printed at the charges of one VVilliam Caxton and so comonly called Caxtons chronicle and in the prologue he wryteth thus In the yeare of our lord 1483. in the 22. yeare of the raigne of K. Edward the 4. at S. Albons so that all mâ—n may know the acts of our noble Kings of England are compiled in this book c. This went in the prologue and then in the end agayne he sayth thus Here endeth this present chronicle of England with the fruite of tymes compiled in a book and also printed by one sometyme scholmaister of S. Albons vpon whose soule God haue mercy Amen And newly imprinted in Fleetstreet at the signe of the Sunne by me VViâ—ken de word In the yeare of our Lord God 1515. 〈…〉 how this book was 〈…〉 withall many hundreds 〈…〉 in the book set downe after the 〈…〉 wyues tales naming no author 〈…〉 he had it for he liued almost 300. 〈…〉 the fact all the former authors 〈…〉 that liued with King Iohn or 〈…〉 to this mannes tyme excepting only 〈…〉 â—onicon that meÌ„tioneth it as a vulgar tale 〈…〉 polidore after him with like reiection all â—â—ners I say former wryters which best should know the truth not only made no meÌ„tion therof but set downe expressely other manner and causes of K. Ihons death as yow haue heard and yet would Fox of meere malice and against his owne conscience beleeue this author against all the rest and set it forth in print pagents and paintings as before hath byn sayd and all other English heretyks since haue followed him in the same impudency both in bookes sermons common speeches which sheweth that they do not follow reason nor seek truthe but only to hold the reader in error by any meanes of sleight or â—alshood whatsoeuer which ought to warne euery true Christian man who seeketh sincerely to know the verity of matters in controuersy and the saluation of his owne soule not to beleeue so easily these cosening people but to enter into better consideration of their doings especially of Iohn Fox the most fraudulent and perfidious wryter that euer put pen to paper in our language if I be not greatly deceyued who haue taken paynes 〈…〉 many others to examine the 〈…〉 wilful falshood of diuers of his 〈…〉 But to returne againe to Sir 〈…〉 Reader note one trick more of his 〈…〉 wing this story of K. Iohn to be as I 〈…〉 was not only content to vse Fox his frauâ—â—â—â— deceyue his Reader but would needs ad somâ— what of his owne deuise also For albeit thâ— former Chronicle of Caxâ—on if so it may be called do recount the summe of the matter most fondly as to the Reader may appeare yet doth he not tel that the monks name was Symon as S. Francis calleth him nor that his Abbot highly commended him for his zeale as Syr Francis addeth out of Fox his inuention who forgeth also that the monk alleaged for himself the prophesy of Cayphas Iohn 11. saying It is better that one dy then all the people perish and moreouer I am wel contented to loose my life and so become a martyr that I may vtterly destroy this tyrant and then with that the Abbot did weep for gladnes and much commended his feruent zeale c. All these speches and circumstances I say are added and much more by Iohn Fox and S. FraÌ„cis to the Story to make it vp more ful for that no such word is in the author CaxtoÌ„ but rather the contrary that both the monk and the abbot were very sorrowful And last of all it is most false which is the principal part of this Story for which it was brought in by Sir Francis that the Abbot gaue him absolution before hand for the committing of this 〈…〉 it had byn committed for 〈…〉 such matter at all in the story but 〈…〉 he asked to be shriuen and assoyled 〈…〉 of his sinnes but not that the 〈…〉 yeild ther-vnto and much lesse 〈…〉 was any mention on eyther part of 〈…〉 olution for the sinne to come but rather â—r his sinnes past as men are wont to doe when they go to warre or to lyke attempts where many sinnes are ordinarily comitted for which no man asketh absolution before hand as our two maysters heer wil needs haue the monk to haue done though in deed Sir Francis is the more impudent of the two for that Iohn Fox durst not to auouch this manifestly of absoluing aforehand for sinnes to come yet our knight blusheth not to affirme ytâ— without all warrant or witnesse in the world and so becommeth the disciple worse then his maister Fox setteth downe the words somewhat more cunningly and dexterously 〈◊〉 and Fox 〈◊〉 riue 〈…〉 hal 〈◊〉 most â—â—dulently to wit The monk being absolued of his Abbot a forehand went c. where yow see that he putteth downe the word a forehand with a parenthesis as added of himself if any would vrge him of falshood But S r. Francis taketh quite a way the parenthesis and affirmeth the matter absolutely saying He highly commended his zeale and gaue him absolution a forehand for committing of this wicked act c. And by this let the reader iudge of them both Maister and scholler doctor disciple and I haue byn the longer in diciphering their cosenage in this one example to the end that their malice and lack of coÌ„science being fully seene in few points may be held suspected in the rest For that most true it is that they who in matters of religion do falsifie and lye of purpose cannot possibly be thought to be true or religious in any thing nor to seek religion for religion but faction and self wil vnder the name of religioÌ„ let them say what they wil. And this shal suffise for this chapter where is nothing to be added about our minister O.E. for that he passeth ouer with vtter silence all that the knight hath handled in this place about the poysoning of king Iohn so as all the blame must light vpon himself his champioÌ„ not presuming to make any defence at all for him Now then let vs passe to that which ensueth THE SPEECH OF THE warder is defended wher he calleth the way of saluation by only faith the common Cart way of protestants the truthe of which doctrin is examined CAP.
corruption vsed by S.F. and Iohn Fox in alleaging the authority of Caesarius against the miracles of S. Thomas of Canterbury Encount 2. cap. 12. num 12. Syr F. conuinced of a notorious wilful calumniation about our Ladyes conception Encount 2. cap. 14. num 23.24 c. Sir F. abuseth Duraâ—d in alleaging him about pardons Enc. 2. cap. 15. n. 3.4 c. A notorious imposture of Sir F. and Iohn Fox about the deuised poisoning of King Iohn by a monk THE FOVRTH TABLE OF THE PRINCIPAL PARTICVLAR MATter 's conteyned in this book A. ANGELS whether they may be prayed vnto Enc. 2. cap. 6. num 8. Archbishop of Aix a most learned prelate greatly abused by S. F. and Iohn Fox Enc. 2. cap. 2. num 21. Arnobius abused by S. Francis as though he spake against Christian Images Enc. 2. cap. 3. num 17. Augustinus Stenchus falsified by O. E. the minister Enc. 1. cap. 3. num 10. 11. S. Augustine abused greatly by S. Francis Enc. 1. cap. 8. B. BAssinet a French Apostata friar made Doctor by Fox and S. Francis Enc. 2. cap. 2. num 20. S. Bernard his iudgment of the Popes titles of honour Enc. 1. cap. 3. num 15. S. Bernard his sentence touching mannes merits and Gods grace Enc 1. cap. 10. num 8. 9. About a Cath. man beyted in a Beares skyn Enc. 2. cap. 2. num 4. S. Bede his testimony notably abused by S. Francis Enc. 2. cap. 3. num 4. Blessings of England by the new ghospel are not present but past according to S. F. Enc. 1. cap. 2. num 15. Blessings of Protestants religion of 2. sorts and neyther of them true Enc. 1. cap. 4. num 4. Blessings of vnity among protestants Enc. 1. cap. 4. per totum Item the blessings of Reading seruice in English Enc. 1. cap. 8. per totum Item the 4. and 5. blessings aboundance of good vvorks and freedome from persecution Enc. 1. cap. 10. per totum Fiue other blessings Ibid. cap. 11. 12. Bookeseller of Auinion put to death for heresy Enc. 2. cap. 5. num 5. No books of old heretyks haue remayned to posterity and why Enc. 2. cap. 9. num 19. Buccanan the Scottish Caluinist what desperate docâ—rine he teacheth about deposition of Princes Enc. 1. cap. 6. num 3. 4. C. CAyetan Card. beguiled by Luthers flattery at Augusta Enc. 2. cap. 4. num 3. Caluyn how he rayleth against Lutherans Enc. 1. cap. 5. n. 5. What himself is called by Hesshusius ibid. n. 7. and by Ochinus and VVestphalus ibid. Who are true Catholiks at this day according to the decrees of Auncient christian Emperours obseruat n. 17. 18.19 c. Catholike faith manifestly deduced and demonstrated against new Sectaryes by the decrees of auncient Emperors obseruat n. 27.28.29 c. Charles the Emperour his decree and determination about Luther after he had heard him Enc. 2. cap. 4. nu 8. Chemnitius his censure of English religion Enc. 1. c. 5. n. 9.10 c. S. Chrisostome his testimony of priests authority Enc. 1. cap. 3. n. 13. Communion-book of English protestants how it is esteemed by the Puritans Enc. 1. cap. 6. n. 9. Commons and nobility miserably corrupted by Wicliffes doctrine Enc. 2. cap. 2. n. 10.11 c. Clanmer and Cromwels actions against Q. Anne Bullen Enc. 1. cap. 3. n. 7. Cuâ—sings brought in by the new ghospellers in steed of blessings Enc. 1. cap. 12. per totum Eight temporal curses or maledictions ensued by the change of Religion in England Enc. 1. cap. 18. per totum D. DArkenesse deuised by S. F. and pittifully described to be in the Cath. Churche Enc. 2. cap. 2. num 15. Deuotion whether shee be the daughter of ignorance or no Euc. 2. cap. 7. num 3.4 c. What true deuotion is ibid. num 17. How deuotion may be hindered more by a knowne then an vnknowne tongue Encount 2. cap. 7. num 18. E. EArle of Essex pittifully seduced by PuritaÌ„s Notes vpoÌ„ the epist. of S. F. num 5. 6. Item of the same obseruat num 5. The hope of his followers and of O. E. the minister in particular Enc. 1. cap. 13. num 13. Emperors Christian their lawes and decrees against heretyks do touch protestants and not Catholyks obseru num 10. English Religion what it is according to Chemnitius Euc. â— cap. 5. num 10. English seruice no blessing to the common people but rather vnprofitable and hurtful to deuotion Enc. 1. cap. â— num 7. Erasmus what he sayth of the protestants good liues in his tyme. Euc. 1. cap. 10. num 1.2.3 c. F. FIdes explicitae and implicita how necessary the disiunction therof is to be knowne Enc. 2. cap. 7. num 7.3 c. More things needful to be beleeued by some men then by others ibid. num 10. Fox taken in playne calumniation Enc. 1. cap. 11. num 4. Fox defendeth the most dangerous doctrine of Iohn Husse about deposing of Princes Enc. 2. cap. 3. num 24. Friars how deceytfully they are prooued to be lyars in K. Richard the 2. his tyme. Euc. 2. cap. 2. num 3. S. Francis Hastings His Puritanical presbytery at Cadbury and their ilfaâ—ored names In the ansvvere intituled certayne notes num 4. He wil not tel playnly whether he be a puritan or no. ibid. nu 7. Enc. 1. cap. 12. nu 7. He flieth the true combat in the first Encounter Enc. 1. cap. 1. num 6. He deuiseth 10. new fresh blessings of his ghospel Enc. 1. cap. 1. num 4. He agreeth not in his blessings with O. E. the minister and his Champion but ridiculously differeth from him ibid. num 8. He is contrary to himself Enc. 1. cap. 2. num 14. He leapeth ouer foure parts of fiue of his aduersaries argument Enc. 1. cap. 12. num 1. And when he speaketh he saith nothing of the points of most importance Ibid. num 6. Et Enc. 2. cap. 8. num 6. He denieth diuision or difference betwene puritans and protestants ibid. num 6.7 c. He excuseth his owne lying by the lying of fryars in K. Rich. the 2. his tyme. Enc. 2. cap. 2. num 6.7.8 c. He abuseth the testimony of Walsingham notoriously in the former place He doctoreth Bassanet an Apostata fryar and disableth the Archb. of Aix Ibid. num 20.21 c. He is takeÌ„ with falshood in that he alleadgeth of Iohn Husse his condemnation in Constance Enc. 2. cap. 3. as also about Luthers disputation in Augusta and VVormes ibid. cap. 4. He is worthy to ly for the whetstone Enc. 2. cap. 5. n. 11. He peruerteth S. Chrysostome notoriously about reading scriptures in vulgar tonges Enc. 2. cap. 9. nu 8.9 c. G. D. Gifford deane of Lisle defended Enc. 1. cap. 3. num 16. H. HEshufius a German Lutheran calleth Caluyn and Beza Epicures of Geneua Enc. 1. cap. 5. num 7. Heretyks who are at this day according to the sentence of Ancient Christian Emperors obseruat num â—8
byn sayd but only the temporal paynes due vnto syn after it is remitted But Priests absolution in the sacrament of confession is sufficieÌ„t to remit any syn if the penitent be contrite according to commission 〈…〉 â—um remiseritis peccata 〈…〉 â—inueritis retenta sunt who 〈…〉 shal be forgiuen and who 〈…〉 â—ayne shal be retayned 〈…〉 is a different matter 〈…〉 pardon Fourthly that the 〈…〉 decrees and ordinances of the Catholyke Church which wickedly he nameth the Romish Synagogue be more hardly forgiuen among vs then greater sinnes and those namely that be immediatly committed against God himself is a shameles slaunder and neuer taught by any Catholyke man in the world and so vnworthy to be further refuted Thus farre the Warder in examination and refutation of Syr Francis his follies and falshoods Cath. doâ—trine about indulgences and for perspicuous declaration of â—ath doctrine about indulgences which coÌ„sisteth in this 2. Reg. 12. 13. 14. that seing after the guilt of mortal sinne remitted as for example the murder and adultery of King Dauid remitted by God and signified by the voyce of Nathan the prophet there remayneth ofteÌ„tymes some temporal satisfaction and paynes to be borne by him that sinned for better satisfaction of Gods most exquisite iustice as we read that the death of Dauids sonne begotten of that adultery as also the insurrection of his sonne Absalon with other afflictions folowing therof assigned by God for this satisfaction after the guilt of the forsaid sinne was pardoned 〈…〉 our Sauiour Christ in his 〈…〉 which for the dignity of 〈…〉 finite valour beâ—ides the 〈…〉 he did merit vnto vs 〈…〉 of our sinnes as also grace 〈…〉 works were infinitely 〈…〉 that they were penal and 〈…〉 nothing to satisfie for his owne person he left in his Churche an infinite treasure of these satisfactory works to be applyed to satisfie for them that caÌ„not satisfie for themselues to which treasures do also appertayne though in a lower degree the satisfactory works of his saints done by his grace and vertue more then for their owne persons they had obligation to do or suffer Out of which publyke treasure of Christs Churche The treasure of satisfactory vvorks remayning in Christs Churche Catholyks do hold that the Bishops Pastors and gouernoures therof especially the cheef supreme Pastor of all may vpon iust causes and to persons penitent otherwayes wel disposed and not so wel able to satisfie for themselues in these temporal paynes dispense and distribut spiritual helpes to the assistance and supply of there wants and infirmities And this is properly that which we cal an indulgence or pardon when any thing is remitted or released that was dew to be paid of our parte in which sense also Esay the Prophet vseth the word IndulgeÌ„ce though in a more general signification when talking of Christ he sayth Esay 61. that he should be sent praedicare capâ—iuis â—dulgentiam to preach Indulgence to them that were in captiuity 〈…〉 vseth in his gospel 〈…〉 sentence 〈◊〉 Esay he 〈…〉 praedicare captiuis remissio◠〈…〉 to them that are 〈…〉 places though they 〈…〉 of all sinnes as wel 〈…〉 nishment thervnto beloÌ„g 〈…〉 by Christ yet hath the 〈…〉 word indulgence and applyed the same also by vse to this remission or mitigation only of temporal punishment remayning after the â—ternal guilt of mortal sinne is forgiuen by the Sacrament of pennance So that heerby we se that neyther indulgeÌ„ces do serue for the remitting of the aeternal guilt To vvhome indulgenceâ— aâ— auailablâ— nor are they auayleable to all sorts of men but to such only as are not in mortal sinne and otherwyse so piously disposed by deuotion in Gods seruice as they are capable of this Indulgence remission and fauour in Gods Churche And thus hauing briefly explaned what Catholyks do truly hold about this point which heretyks wil neuer suffer their readers sincerely to vnderstand we shal come to examine what S r. F. replyeth to the discouery of all those cauils and falshoods wherin the Warder took him trip they were foure if yow remember or wil vouchsafe to look back vpon them to all which he answereth no one word in particular but only this in general VVhat say I more in my accusation about 〈…〉 knoweth to be true 〈…〉 a general answere it 〈…〉 he meaneth I know not 〈…〉 he had a world of 〈…〉 he might haue alleaged 〈…〉 ours in all this world 〈…〉 one of these foure 〈…〉 which in this place are 〈…〉 his charge by the Warder and so haue saued his honour in this behalf but hauing produced none after so much bragging in his VVatchword and so much battery in the VVardword now to come and cry agayne that he hath a world with him when the tyme had byn to haue brought some forth is a pittiful plight for so honorable a knight to see him self in But what doth he answere nothing at all in particular think yow to all these charges of vntruthes layd vnto him but only that the whole world knoweth his assertions to be true Yes Ibid. Pag. 69. for thus it followeth in the same place The Cath. doctrine is as our champion sayth that the Popes and Churches indulgences auayle not to remooue mortal sinnes c. neyther doth the pardon remooue the guilt of sinne c. But Syr whatsoeuer your doctrine is in this point your practise is quite conâ—ary c. Mark heer gentle Reader wheras hitherto the knight hath charged our doctrine now being put to the proof he saith VVhatsoeuer our doctrine be yet our practise is to the contrary as though he had sayd that howsoeuer it be false and slaunderous which hitherto he hath affirmed of our 〈…〉 he shew that we 〈…〉 kynd of argument if a 〈…〉 vse against a Christian 〈…〉 doctrine for teaching 〈…〉 being dryuen from it by 〈…〉 and by shewing that 〈…〉 teach the contrary if 〈…〉 as S r. Francis doth from 〈…〉 and say as he sayth that whatsoeuer your 〈◊〉 be yet is your practise contrary and many wicked men are among yow ergo your religion is naught would any man cal this other then playne cauilling But what doth our knight prooue any one authentical poynt in this part also of practise though I do not deny but that some abuses may haue byn committed by particular persons About abuses of Indulgences in the vse of indulgences also as there want not euil liners among Christians doth he bring forth I say any one example of any one publyke practise to the coÌ„trary No truly but only sayth in general Pag. 70. that the Counsels of Laâ—eran Vienna and Trent haue made prouision â—or reformation of abuses about Indulgencâ—â— which maketh for vs rather then for him for that it sheweth we desyre that abuses or contrary practise should not be or if it hath byn it was not permitted by Cath. doctrine or publyke authority no more then wicked lyfe is in Christian religion
though much be practised as to our greef we see From this he passeth to alleage certayne ould verses cyted by KeÌ„nitius as true a wryter 〈…〉 as he saith in a stone in a 〈…〉 the Bituriges in Aquitany 〈…〉 nothing at all 〈…〉 only exhorting men to 〈…〉 in respect of the 〈…〉 by God and 〈…〉 of scripture themselues 〈…〉 our knight lacking other 〈…〉 them in against 〈◊〉 Some of them I shal alleage heare for examples sake 〈◊〉 Pag. 69. Hic des deuotè caelestibus associate Mentes aegrotae per munera sunt tibi lotae Ergo veni tote gentes à sede remotae Qui datis estote certi de diuite dote Hic si largè des in caelo sit tua sedes Qui serit hic parcè parcè comprendit in arce Syr Francis his translation Giue freely heer in heauen a place prepare Your sickly soules by giftes cleane purged are Come people then which dwel farre from this place Ye that do giue rest sure of mickle grace Yf thow giue freely heere heauen is thy hyre He that giues litle shal litle there acquire These verses alleadgeth S r. FraÌ„cis to make sporte at indulgences but if yow take away the simplicity of the latyn and poeÌ„sy incident to that age they contayne no absurdity at all but do set forth the force and vertue of almes in the very words almost that are found in scripture For in the 〈…〉 Daie dabitur vobis c. 〈…〉 giuen vnto yow In 〈…〉 words of our Sauiour 〈…〉 omnia vobis munda sunt 〈…〉 all is cleane and purged 〈…〉 the rest ending with the 〈…〉 in the last verse Qui parcè semini◠〈…〉 he that soweth litle shal reap 〈…〉 expressely of almes And with what folly theâ— are these things brought in by way of scoffe against pardons and indulgences which nothing appertayne vnto them and are sentences taken out of the scripture it self He addeth to this purpose a complaint of the Princes of Germany as he calleth them exhibited against the Popes pardons at a counsel in Norenberg Pag. 71. Malitious concealing of circumstances to deceaue the reader but he telleth not in what yeare this was nor what maner of counsel nor that these Princes were new protestants nor that Luther did endite this complaint for if he had told any one of these circumstances it would haue infringed the credit of his tale Ibid. Pag. 72 as that which he telleth of one Tecelius the Popes pardon marchaunt as he termeth him of whome he wryteth a iest how he was deceyued and cosened in selling of pardons but for that he citeth neyther author book time nor place I giue it the credit as such pulpit tales of Sir Francis ministers do require That old obiection also of Card. Como his letter to Parry wherin he is affirmed to say 〈…〉 pardon of all your sinnes as 〈…〉 answered For first it is 〈…〉 in his letter to Pope 〈…〉 from Paris when he 〈…〉 1583. discouered no 〈…〉 any particular enterprice 〈…〉 only in general that he 〈…〉 great matters for the 〈…〉 Cath. religion for recompence of the â—urts which he had done diuers yeares before by spiery for the state of England And this appeareth as wel by the letter yet extant as for that he vttering his whole plot to her Ma â—ie and her counsel at his first comming in was notwithstanding fauorably handled for a great space vntil falling into discontentment through want he practised with him that discouered his teachery Secondly the Popes graunt of Indulgence vnto him was meant only with due circumstaÌ„ces if he were contrite and confessed of his sinnes which is wont to be added coÌ„monly in all indulgences or is necessary to be vnderstood For which cause this obiection is to no purpose at all Wherfore I would leaue of in this place to speak any more of this argument of indulgences as vnable to be disprooued eyther in doctrine or practise by Sir Francis but that I must discouer one trik of his more about alleadging Durandus pag. 70. before I end my speech As for the authority saith he wher-vpon your indulgences are grounded your owne men confesse as namely among the rest Durandus De indulgentijs pauca dici possunt per certitudinem qui 〈…〉 ijs loquitur sancti etiam 〈…〉 Hieronymus Augustinus mit 〈…〉 gentijs c. Litle can be 〈…〉 indulgences because 〈…〉 speaketh expressely of the 〈…〉 Fathers Ambrose Hilary 〈…〉 make no mention of them 〈…〉 confesse that yow haue neyther warrant 〈…〉 nor of the auncient fathers for your popish 〈…〉 go they currant c. Howsoeuer they go currant Syr knight among vs yet go not yow curraÌ„t but do hault downe to the ground and that in three things about this one text First in the citation then in the deductioÌ„ or illation of the sense thirdly in the words themselues alleaged And let the reader consider whether falshood may be found in more points then these in the handling or alleadging of any author For the first though he name Durandus yet quoteth he no place The first shift where yow may find it which for the most part as before we haue noted implyeth lightly some deceyt or subtile trick in the allegation which he would not haue discouered as now by experience we haue learned and the third point shal declare For the second about the illation he maketh out of the words of Durand The second shift if they were all in all respects truly alleaged it is false and cauillous For if any Arrian or Anabaptist in the dayes of S. Ambrose Hilary and Ierome whome 〈…〉 haue made lyke 〈…〉 and sayd as they 〈…〉 of Homousion 〈…〉 as also the baptisme 〈…〉 to be found in 〈…〉 such and such auncient 〈…〉 Iustinus and others of that 〈…〉 thing of it ergo yow hold 〈…〉 neyther haue warrant in 〈…〉 of auncient Fathers This argument I say or illation against these doctrynes had byn as good as this of Syr Francis against pardons and yet had it byn naught and deceytful and the reason is for that albeyt those doctrines for the blessed Trinity and baptisme of children were not expressely conteyned in scripture yet were they sufficiently deduced therof And albeit those former fathers as Iustinus Irenaeus and others had not occasion expressely to handle or treat of these controuersyes being occupied in other matters yet neuer taught they the contrary other fathers following after them did teache testifie that doctrin to be Catholike which was sufficient And the very like may be answered by vs in this behalfe as by the third poynt of Syr Francis paltry dealing shal appeare The third point then is his fraudulent alleaging of the words of Durand The 3. shift leauing out some which are greatly to the purpose and do plainly insinuate the answere that now I haue giuen For first after Durand had said that the scripture did not 〈…〉 indulgences he alleaget◠〈…〉 scripture as Tibi