Selected quad for the lemma: religion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
religion_n	new_a	old_a	testament_n	3,965	5	8.0680	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A63784	A discourse of the nature, offices, and measures of friendship with rules of conducting it / written in answer to a letter from the most ingenious and vertuous M.K.P. by J.T.	Taylor, Jeremy, 1613-1667.; Taylor, Jeremy, 1613-1667. Two letters written to persons newly changed in their religion.	1657 (1657)	Wing T317; ESTC R27531	49,680	181

understandings The first is where was your Church before Luther Now if you had called upon them to speak something against your religion from Scripture or right reason or Universal Tradition you had been secure as a Tortoise in her shell a cart pressed with sheavs could not have oppressed your cause or person though you had confessed you understood nothing of the mysteries of succession doctrinal or personal For if we can make it appear that our religion was that which Christ and his Apostles taught let the truth suffer what eclipses or prejudices can be supposed let it be hid like the holy fire in the captivity yet what Christ and his Apostles taught us is eternally true and shall by some means or other be conveyed to us even the enemies of truth have been conservators of that truth by which we can confute their errors But if you still aske where it was before Luther I answer it was there where it was after even in the Scriptures of the Old New Testament and I know no warrant for any other religion and if you will expect I should shew any society of men who professed all the doctrines which are now expressed in the confession of the Church of England I shall tell you it is unreasonable because some of our truths are now brought into our publick confessions that they might be oppos'd against your errors before the occasion of which there was no need of any such confessions till you made many things necessary to be professed which are not lawful to be believed For if we believe your superinduc'd follies we shall do unreasonably unconscionably and wickedly but the questions themselves are so useless abstracting from the accidental necessity which your follies have brought upon us that it had been happy if we had never heard of them more then the Saints and Martyrs did in the first ages of the Church but because your Clergy have invaded the liberty of the Church and multiplyed the dangers of damnation and pretend new necessities and have introduc'd new articles and affright the simple upon new pretensions and slight the very institution and the Commands of Christ and of the Apostles and invent new sacramentals constituting ceremonies of their own head and promise grace along with the use of them as if they were not Ministers but Lords of the Spirit and teach for doctrines the Commandments of men and make void the Commandment of God by their tradition and have made a strange body of Divinity therefore it is necessary that we should immure our faith by the refusal of such vain and superstitious dreams but our faith was compleated at first it is no other then that which was delivered to the saints and can be no more for ever So that it is a foolish demand to require that we should shew before Luther a systeme of Articles declaring our sense in these questions It was long before they were questions at all and when they were made questions they remained so a long time and when by their several pieces they were determined this part of the Church was oppressed with a violent power and when God gave opportunity then the yoke was broken and this is the whole progress of this affair But if you will still insist upon it then let the matter be put into equal ballances and let them shew any Church whose confession of faith was such as was obtruded upon you at Trent and if your religion be Pius quartus his Creed at Trent then we also have a question to aske and that is where was your religion before Trent The Councel of Trent determined that the souls departed before the day of judgement enjoy the beatifical vision It is certain this Article could not be shown in the confession of any of the antient Churches for most of the Fathers were of another opinion But that which is the greatest offence of Christendom is not only that these doctrines which we say are false were yet affirmed but that those things which the Church of God did alwayes reject or held as Uncertain should be made Articles of faith and so become parts of your religion and of these it is that I again aske the question which none of your side shall ever be able to answer for you where was your religion before Trent I could instance in many particulars but I shall name one to you which because the thing of it selfe is of no great consequence it will appear the more unreasonable and intolerable that your Church should adopt it into the things of necessary belief especially since it was only a matter of fact and they took the false part too For in the 21. Session the fourth Chapter it is affirmed that although the holy Fathers did give the Sacrament of the Eucharist to Infants yet they did it without any necessity of salvation that is they did not believe it necessary to their salvation which is notoriously false and the contrary is marked out with the black-lead of every man almost that reads their works and yet your Councel sayes this is sine controversiâ credendum to be believed without all controversie and all Christians forbidden to believe or teach otherwise So that here it is made an Article of faith amongst you that a man shall neither believe his reason nor his eyes and who can shew any confession of faith in which all the Trent doctrine was professed and enjoyned under pain of damnation and before the Councel of Constance the doctrine touching the Popes power was so new so decried that as Gerson says he hardly should have escaped the note of heresy that would have said so much as was there defined so that in that Article which now makes a great part of your belief where was your religion before the Councel of Constance and it is notorious that your Councel of Constance determined the doctrine of the halfe communion with a Non obstante to Christs institution that is with a defiance to it or a noted observed neglect of it and with a profession it was otherwise in the primitive Church Where then was your religion before Iohn Hus and Hierom of Pragues time against whom that Councel was convened But by this instance it appears most certainly that your Church cannot shew her confessions immediately after Christ and therefore if we could not shew ours immediately before Luther it were not halfe so much for since you receded from Christs Doctrine we might well recede from yours and it matters not who or how many or how long they professed your doctrine if neither Christ nor his Apostles did teach it so that if these Articles constitute your Church your Church was invisible at the first and if ours was invisible afterwards it matters not For yours was invisible in the dayes of light and ours was invisible in the dayes of darkness For our Church was alwayes visible in the reflections of Scripture and he that had his eyes of faith

the Characterismes of her Lord the marks of the Crosse of Jesus that is when she suffered for a holy cause and a holy conscience when the Church of England was more glorious then at any time before Even when she could shew more Martyrs and Confessors then any Church this day in Christendome even then when a King died in the profession of her Religion and thousands of Priests learned and pious men suffered the spoiling of their goods rather then they would forsake one Article of so excellent a Religion So that serioufly it is not easily to be imagined that any thing should move you unless it be that which troubled the perverse Jews and the Heathen Greeks Scandalum crucis the scandall of the Crosse You stumbled at that Rock of offence You left us because we were afflicted lessened in outward circumstances and wrapped in a cloud but give me leave only to reminde you of that sad saying of the Scripture that you may avoid the consequent of it They that fall on this stone shall be broken in pieces but they on whom it shall fall shall be grinded to powder And if we should consider things but prudently it is a great argument that the sons of our Church are very conscientious and just in their perswasions when it is evident that we have no temporall end to serve nothing but the great end of our souls all our hopes of preferment are gone all secular regards only we still have truth on our sides and we are not willing with the losse of truth to change from a persecuted to a prosperous Church from a Reformed to a Church that will not be reformed lest we give scandall to good people that suffer for a holy conscience and weaken the hands of the afflicted of which if you had been more carefull you would have remained much more innocent But I pray give me leave to consider for you because you in your change considered so little for your self what fault what false doctrine what wicked or dangerous proposition what defect what amiss did you finde in the Doctrine and Liturgy and Discipline of the Church of England For its doctrine It is certain it professes the belief of all that is written in the Old and New Testament all that which is in the three Creeds the Apostolical the Nicene and that of Athanasius and whatsoever was decreed in the four General Councels or many other truly such and whatsoever was condemned in these our Church hath legally declared it to be Heresie And upon these accounts above four whole ages of the Church went to Heaven they baptized all their Catechumens into this faith their hopes of heaven was upon this and a good life their Saints and Martyrs lived and died in this alone they denied Communion to none that professed this faith This is the Catholick faith so saith the Creed of Athanasius and unless a company of men have power to alter the faith of God whosoever live and die in this faith are intirely Catholick and Christian So that the Church of England hath the same faith without dispute that the Church had for 400 or 500 years and therefore there could be nothing wanting here to saving faith if we live according to our beleef 2. For the Liturgy of the Church of England I shall not need to say much because the case will be very evident First Because the disputers of the Church of Rome have not been very forward to object any thing against it they cannot charge it with any evil 2. Because for all the time of K. Edw. 6. and till the 11th year of Q. Elizabeth your people came to our Churches and prayed with us till the Bull of Pius Quintus came out upon temporal regards and made a Schism by forbidding the Queens Subjects to pray as by Law was here appointed though the prayers were good and holy as themselves did beleeve That Bull enjoyned recusancy and made that which was as an act of rebellion and disobedience and schisme to be the Character of your Roman Catholikes And after this what can be supposed wanting in order to salvation We have the Word of God the faith of the Apostles the Creeds of the Primitive Church the Articles of the four first generall Councels a holy Liturgy excellent prayers perfect Sacraments Faith and Repentance the ten Commandements and the Sermons of Christ and all the precepts and counsels of the Gospel We teach the necessity of good works and require and strictly exact the severity of a holy life We live in obedience to God and are ready to die for him and do so when he requires us so to do We speak honour of his most holy Name we worship him at the mention of his Name we confess his Attributes we love his Servants we pray for all men we love all Christians even our most erring Brethren we confess our sinnes to God and to our Brethren whom we have offended and to Gods Ministers in cases of scandall or of a troubled Conscience We communicate often We are enjoyned to receive the holy Sacrament thrice every year at least Our Priests absolve the penitent our Bishops ordain Priests and confirm baptized persons and blesse their people and intercede for them and what could here be wanting to Salvation what necessity forced you from us I dare not suspect it was a temporal regard that drew you away but I am sure it could be no spirituall But now that I have told you and made you to consider from whence you went give me leave to represent to you and tell you whither you are gone that you may understand the nature and conditions of your change For do not think your self safe because they tell you that you are come to the Church You are indeed gone from one Church to another from a better to a worse as will appear in the induction the particular of which before I reckon give me leave to give you this advice if you mean in this affair to understand what you do it were better you enquired what your Religion is then what your Church is for that which is a true Religion to day will be so to morrow and for ever but that which is a holy Church to day may be heretical at the next change or may betray her trust or obtrude new Articles in contradiction to the old or by new interpretations may elude ancient truths or may change your Creed or may pretend to be the Spouse of Christ when she is idolatrous that is adulterous to God Your Religion is that which you must and therefore may competently understand You must live in it and grow in it and govern all the actions of your life by it and in all questions concerning the Church you are to choose your Church by the Religion and therefore this ought first and last to be enquired after Whether the Romane Church be the Catholique Church must depend upon so many uncertain enquiries is offered to be

under pain of damnation which cannot be made very probable much less certain and therefore that you sin against God and are in danger of his eternal displeasure but in giving the final sentence as we have no more to do then your men have yet so we refuse to follow your evil example and we follow the glorious precedent of our Blessed Lord who decreed and declared against the crime but not against the Criminal before the day He that does this or that is in danger of the Councel or in danger of judgment or liable and obnoxious to the danger of hell fire so we say of your greatest errors they put you in the danger of perishing but that you shall or shall not perish we leave it to your Judge and if you call this charity it is well I am sure it is piety and the fear of God 7. Whether you may be saved or whether you shall be damned for your errors does neither depend upon our affirmative nor your negative but according to the rate and value which God sets upon things Whatever we talke things are as they are not as we dispute or grant or hope and therefore it were well if your men would leave abusing you themselves with these litle arts of indirect support For many men that are warranted yet do eternally perish and you in your Church damne millions who I doubt not shall reign with Jesus eternally in the Heavens 8. I wish you would consider that if any of our men say salvation may be had in your Church it is not for the goodness of your new propositions but only because you do keep so much of that which is our Religion that upon the confidence of that we hope well concerning you And we do not hope any thing at all that is good of you or your Religion as it distinguishes from us and ours we hope that the good which you have common with us may obtain pardon directly or indirectly or may be an antidote of the venome and an amulet against the danger of your very great errors so that if you can derive any confidence from our concession you must remember where it takes root not upon any thing of yours but wholly upon the excellency of ours you are not at all safe or warranted for being Papists but we hope well of some of you for having so much of the Protestant and if that will do you any good proceed in it and follow it whither soever it leads you 9. The safety that you dream of which we say to be on your side is nothing of allowance or warranty but a hope that is collateral indirect and relative we do not say any thing whereby you can conclude yours to be safer then ours for it is not safe at all but extremely dangerous we affirm those errors in themselves to be damnable some to contain in them impiety some to have sacriledge some idolatry some superstition some practifes to be conjuring and charming and very like to witchcraft as in your hallowing of water and baptizing bels and exorcizing demoniacs and what safety there can be in these or what you can fancy we should allow to you I suppose you need not boast of Now because we hope some are saved amongst you you must not conclude yours to be safe for our hope relies upon this There are many of your propositions in which we differ from you that thousands amongst you understand and know nothing of it is to them as if they were not it is to them now as it was before the councel they hear not of it And though your Priests have taken a course that the most ignorant do practise some of your abhominations most grossely yet we hope this will not be laid upon them who as S. Austin's expression is caut â sollicitudine quaerunt veritatem corrigi parati cum invenerint do according as they are able warily and diligently seek for truth and are ready to swallow it when they finde it men who live good lives and repent of all their evils known and unknown Now if we are not deceived in our hopes these men shall rejoyce in the eternal goodness of God which prevails over the malice of them that misguide you but if we be deceived in our hopes of you your guides have abus'd you and the blind leaders of the blind will fall together For 10. If you will have the secret of this whole affair this it is The hopes we have of any of you as it is known principally relies upon the hopes of your repentance Now we say that a man may repent of an error which he knows not of as he that prayes heartily for the pardon of all his sins and errors known and unknown by his general repentance may obtain many degrees instances of mercy Now thus much also your men allow to us these who live well and die in a true though but general repentance of their sins and errors even amongst us your best wisest men pronounce to be in a saveable condition Here then we are equal and we are as safe by your confession as you are by ours But because there are some Bigots of your faction fierce and fiery who say that a general repentance will not serve our turns but it must be a particular renunciation of Protestancy these men deny not only to us but to themselves too all that comfort which they derive from our Concession and indeed which they can hope for from the mercies of God For be you sure we think as ill of your errors as you can suppose of our Articles and therefore if for errors be they on which side it chances a general repentance will not serve the turn without an actual dereliction then flatter not your selves by any thing of our kindness to your party for you must have a particular if a general be not sufficient But if it be sufficient for you it is so for us in case we be in error as your men suppose us but if it will not suffice us for remedy to those errors you charge us with neither will it suffice you for the case must needs be equall as to the value of repentance and the malignity of the error and therefore these men condemn themselves and will not allow us to hope well of them but if they will allow us to hope it must be by affirming the value of a general repentance and if they allow that they must hope as well of ours as we of theirs but if they deny it to us they deny it to themselves and then they can no more brag of any thing of our concession This only I adde to this consideration that your men does not cannot charge upon us any doctrine that is in its matter and effect impious there is nothing positive in our doctrine but is either true or innocent but we are accus'd for denying your super-structures ours therefore if we be deceived is but like a