Selected quad for the lemma: religion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
religion_n	new_a	old_a	testament_n	3,965	5	8.0680	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A18078	A replye to an ansvvere made of M. Doctor VVhitgifte Against the admonition to the Parliament. By T.C.	Cartwright, Thomas, 1535-1603.	1573 (1573)	STC 4712; ESTC S120563	333,686	231

manner of place they should haue where was pulpittes commaunded or chaires and yet they had both Where any forme of buriall in the law and yet it is a thing pertaining to the church that the deade be after a comely sorte buried Where any order or forme of mariage and yet it is knowne they had It was whych is more in the discretion of that churche vppon occasion of dearthe or warre plagues or any other common calamitie to proclaime a faste I wil not be long where as you say that they had nothing but was determined by the law and we haue many things vndetermined and left to the order of the churche I will offer for one that you shall bring that we haue left to the order of the church to shew you that they had twentie whych were vndecided of by the expres word of god For as their ceremonies and sacraments are multiplied aboue oures so grewe the nomber of those cases whych were not determined by any expres worde and therefore ▪ I will conclude that for so muche as we haue the same lawes to directe vs in the seruice of God whych they had beside that a noble addition of the newe Testament to make things more manifest and to bring greater light vnto the olde Testament we haue also precise direction of our religion as they had and therfore those places of Deuter. stand in as greate force nowe touching the gouernment of the church as they did then And as for the iudiciall lawe for as muche as there are some of them made in regarde of the region where they were geuen and of the people to whom they were giuen the Prince and Magistrate keping the substance equitie of them as it were the marrow may chaunge the circumstances of them as the times and places and manners of the people shall require But to say that any magistrate can saue the life of blasphemers contemptuous and stubborne Idolaters murderers adulterers incestuous persons and suche like whych God by hys iudiciall lawe hath commaunded to be put to death I doe vtterly denye and am ready to proue if that pertained to thys question And therfore althoughe the iudiciall lawes are permitted to the discretion of the prince and magistrate yet not so generally as you seeme to affirme and as I haue oftentimes sayde that not only it must not be done against the word but according to the worde and by it After you define what is it to take from put to the word of God wherin not to speake of your wonderfull dexteritie in defining whych can define two things and those contrary putting to and taking fro with one differēce which zeno him selfe could neuer do you leaue out that whych Moses especially meant to comprehend whych is not to do more nor to do les thē he hath cōmaunded And as for your deuision it hath as euil succes here as in other places for when it is a great fault in deuiding to haue eyther too muche or too little you faulte in bothe for whereas you say they adde whych teache or decree c. besides that you leaue out whych Moses ment you forget also that whych your selfe hadde sayd which had placed adding to not only in teaching and decreeing but in thinking or beleeuing And wheras you make foure partes of your deuision the three last are found to be all vnder the first member whych is to make things of fayth and ceremonies contrary to the worde and so your deuision is not only faultye but no diuision at all The whych thing I could haue easely forgeuen you and passed by as a thing not very commendable to trauaile to shewe the pouertye of those things whych doe sufficiently of them selues as it were proclaime their owne shame but that it greeued me to see a boke lengthened wyth first second thirde last as thoughe euery one of them contained some notable newe matter whych needed an Oyes before it to stirre vp the attention of the reader when there is nothing but a many of words wythout matter as it were a sort of faire emptie Apothecaries boxes wythout any stuffe in them And for that you are so hard wyth other men for their Logike I will desire the reader to pardone me if I pursue these things more narowlyer then some peraduenture will lyke of or I my selfe delight in And so for any definition or diuision that I cā perceiue it standeth fast that nothing is to be done in the church of God but by hys commaundement and worde directing the same It is true in deede if they be not against the word of God and be profitable for the church they are to be receiued as those thyngs whych God by the church dothe commaunde and as grounded of the word of God but there is the question and therefore you taking this as a thyng graunted alwayes do alwayes fal into that whych you charge other with of the fallation of petitio principii To that in the. 34. and. 35. page VVHere in effect doe they say that the church of Englande is boide of preaching and ministring of the sacraments is it all one to say that the word in the church of England is not purely preached and the sacraments sincerely and discipline seuerely administred wyth this that the churche of England is voyde of all these Againe where do they reason thus that the worde of God is not truely preached because the ministers are not rightly proued elected when as they haue not one worde of true preaching is it all one to say it is not purely preached to say it is not truely preached S. Paul is glad that the gospel be preached although it be not purely but he wold neuer haue bene glad y it shuld haue ben preached falsly or not truly Again he inueyeth not against the false Apostles in the church of Corinth because they preached the word vntruely but because they vsing paynted wordes and affected eloquence and making a great shew of learning and tounges dyd not preache the Gospell sincerely So that you see that it is one thing not to preache truely and an other not to preache purely and you see their reason is not so euill for the want of a good calling may geue occasion to say that the word of God is not sincerely taught because there is not a lawful and ordynary calling For although for the substance of doctryne and the manner of handling of it they that S. Paul speaketh of to the Phillip dyd no fault yet S. Paul sayth that they dyd not preach purely because they dyd it of contention or of eniue which was no fault in the doctryne but in hym that taught Therefore let men iudge how iust your waights are that expounde not purely not truely and whether thys be to confute other mens arguments rather then to skirmishe wyth your owne shadowes I know no papistes reason thus that because we haue no ministers therfore no word no sacraments no

it were a priuate example of one or in one place alone or if it were countermaunded by any other rule of the scripture then the example were not alwayes safe to follow But what if there bee commaundement also In the booke of Numbers the Lorde commaundeth that the Leuites which preached the word of God to the people in their seuerall congregations shoulde be brought before the Lorde and before the people and the people should lay theyr handes vppon the Leuites heades which what other thing is it then to declare their lyking of them and by that ceremony to consecrate them and set them aparte for that vse of their ministerie And if you say that it were a disorder that all shoulde lay on their handes I graunt you but so he speaketh because the approbatiō was by all and some in the name of the rest declared that by their laying on of handes But me thinketh I heare your olde answere that this pertaineth not vnto vs being a thing done vnder the law but take heede what you say for if you wil admit neyther the generall examples of the newe Testament nor the commaundements and examples of the Olde take heede that you do not or euer you be aware spoile vs of the cheefe and principall pillers and buttresses of our religion and bring vs to plaine Catabaptistrie whych you say you are so afraid of For to proue the Baptisme of children and yong infantes what stronger holde haue we then that God commaunded in the old Testament the they should be circumcised and examples thereof in the newe Testament for that the Apostles baptised whole families wherby all likelyhode there were children Now we saye that there is thys commaundement in the olde Testament of the ministers and there are examples in the newe Testament generall and through out why shuld it not then be necessary in this as wel as in the other Besides that in the. 6. of the Actes the Apostles commaund that the church should seke them out Deacons whome they might appoynt ouer the poore Touching certaine Ceremonies I haue shewed that they are necessarye as namely the Sacraments And as for Discipline and gouernment I haue shewed partly and more heereafter will be shewed that they are of the substance of the gospell if to haue Excommunication be to haue Discipline or if to haue pastors or Byshops and Doctors and Deacons be gouernment of the Churche You say that howsoeuer in the Apostles time thys vse was of hauing the consent of the church in the choise of their pastor or byshop nowe in thys estate it were moste pernicious and hurtfull Wherin see how vnaduisedly you condemne the churches of Geneua of all Fraunce of certaine of the Germaine churches which keepe thys order But you alledge your reasons therefore those those are to be considered because they come so rare For your manner is that if you can haue but one wryter newe or olde of your side or whych seemeth to be of your side you runne away wyth the matter as though you had scripture reason doctors and all I will therefore then take a viewe of your reasons when as I shall haue breefely set downe those reasons wherby the perpetuall equitie reasonablenes and conueniencie of thys order that the church should haue a stroke in her ministers election may appeare It is sayd amongst the Lawyers and in deede reason which is the law of all nations confirmeth it Quod omnium interest ab omnibus approbari debet That whych standeth all men vpon should be approued of all men Which lawe hath this sense that if it may be it were good that those things whych shall binde all men and whych require the obedience of all shoulde be concluded as farre as may be by the consent of all or at least by the consent of as many as may be gotten And therfore it draweth much the obedience of the subiectes of thys realme that the statutes whereby the realme is gouerned passe by the consent of the moste parte of it whilest they be made by them whome the rest put in trust and chuse for that purpose being as it were all their actes So is it also when the question is to chuse the magistrate Mayor or bailiffe or Constable of euery towne whych things if they haue good groundes in ciuill affaires they haue much better in Ecclesiasticall For it is much more vnreasonable that there should be thrust vpon me a gouernoure of whom the euerlasting saluation or damnation both of my body and soule doth depend then him of whome my wealth and commoditye of thys life doth hang. Onles those vpon whome he were thrust were fooles or madde men or children wythout all discretion of ordering them selues whych as I will shewe can not agree wyth those that are the church of god and are to haue a pastor For they of the church of God although they be called sheepe in respect of their simplicitye and harmelesnes yet are they also for their circumspection wise as serpents in the wisdom especially whych is to saluation and how vile accompt so euer you wil make of of them they are the people of God and therfore spirituall and forthwith those of whome S. Paule sayth the spirituall man discerneth all thyngs Moreouer reason and experience teacheth that it maketh muche to the profiting of the church vnder the hande of the pastor or bishop that the churche loue him and reuerence him For the contempt and hatred of the minister for the most parte standeth not in hys owne person but reacheth euen vnto the doctrine whych he teacheth But the minister that the churche desireth it commonly best loueth and moste reuerenceth and of the other side hateth and contemneth hym that is thrust vpon them therfore it maketh muche to the profiting of the people in the doctrine of the gospell that the minister come in by their consent Likewise the people must by S. Paule hys rule folowe the good example of the minister but men will not likely folowe their examples whome they loue not nor loue them whych are thrust vpon them against their willes therfore it standeth wyth the good conuersation and godlye folowing of the steppes of the minister that he be wyth the consent of the Churche And if it should happen whych may come to passe that any church should desire or chuse or consent vpon by the most part some that is vnmete eyther for doctrine or manners then the ministers and elders of the other churches rounde about should aduertise first and afterward as occasion should serue sharply and seuerely charge that they forbeare suche election or if it be made that they confirme it not by suffering him to exercise any ministerie And if eyther the churches round about do faile of this duety or the church whych is admonished rest not in their Admonition then to bring it to the nexte Synode and if it rest not therin then the Prince or Magistrate whych must see