〈◊〉 and we cannot tell how many kinds and theâ—… 〈◊〉 will bâ—… 〈◊〉 and pretend 〈◊〉 draâ—… their doâ—… from you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thâ—… Apostâ—… Sâ—… 〈◊〉 hearing thâ—… would not have bin aâ—…shed at al but would have signified that there was 〈◊〉 â—…ght way which was chalked out in the writings of the old 〈◊〉 Testâ—… 〈◊〉 bâ—…ing walked in woâ—…d bâ—…ng men vnto life thâ—…â—…st 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 byâ—… 〈◊〉 which 〈◊〉 had opeâ—… 〈◊〉 being 〈◊〉 to draw some thither vnto their owne 〈◊〉 But if you will looke lower to the fourth age after Christ 〈◊〉 shall finde that youâ—… obiection might moâ—…â—…ly have 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Geâ—…es in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 oâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈…〉 you many strifes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I know not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I should choose what I should preferre Everyone such I say the truth 〈◊〉 I should beleeve I 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 since I am 〈◊〉 of the Scriptures and they on both sides doe pretend the same Yet his Conclusion is that 〈◊〉 of the Scripture and such necessary consequences as are drawne from thence the iudgement what is truth is to 〈◊〉 had But what small vnity was there among the Christians when he wrote this Or when Saint Austen mencioned more then b De haeresib ad quod vult Deum fourescore heresyes which had arisen in the Church all whom but for tediousnesse I would retire from him as also one of Epiphanius and Theodoret that the Reader might see that we need not to be frighted with the pretended shew of your 55. Now might not such a one as that Symmachus was who vnder the Emperour Valentinian in the time of S t Ambrose made so earnest effectualla c Ambros. Epist speech that Ethnicisiue might be restored in Rome and altars might be permitted to their Paimme Gods Iupiter Mercury Apollo Iâ—…o and the rest have disputed in the same manner against the Christian faith as you now do reason VVhile vvee retained the service of our formerly knowne Maiores minores Dij vvee agreed vpon that vvorship which every God should have wee knew their Temples their altars their sacrifices their Priests their feasts times and seasons vvee had vnity in our heartes and sweete harmony in our speeches 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which you have â—…hed among vs we see nothing 〈◊〉 to which we may cleave for howe should we be resolved what is to be embraced when you cannot agree among yourselves what is the 〈◊〉 and right way And the difâ—… is not that some go to the 〈◊〉 hand 〈◊〉 the other 〈◊〉 a maÌ„ had 〈◊〉 many hands 〈◊〉 d Plutarch de multitud aâ—…corum Brâ—… 〈◊〉 which 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dâ—…ed hands was imagined to have there 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 some be wanting who with 〈◊〉 dis-ioined 〈◊〉 from 〈◊〉 would 〈◊〉 to every one of them If Symmachus had spoke thus as heâ—… 〈◊〉 not behinde hand to vtter other 〈◊〉 sheâ—… available 〈◊〉 his purpose St. Ambrose who answered 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 obiections â—…d 〈◊〉 have 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 this 〈◊〉 would 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I 〈◊〉 â—…Lineâ—… and the same individed truth should be hemmed about with many different doctrines of Heresie T. HILL AND what divisions you have there in England you may in some sort know who doe as I thinke now and then heare Preachers of different doctrine What combats your Bishops Councellours and moderate sort of Protestants have to defend their Parlimentary Religion and the Queenes Proceedings as they terme it against Puritans Brownists other such like good fellowes that by shew of Scriptures impugne it you cannot but knowe and see with your eyes Neither can it bee answered that the Sects heere rehearsed differ one from another onely in matters of small moment for they differ and disagree in waighty points of our salvation as might heere easily be declared but that it would not benefite this mine intended brevity so to doe G. ABBOT 8 WHen you have put on your spectacles to see have picked your eares to heare you and all your confederates can neither iustly see nor heare Gods name be blessed therfore that either at this time or at the divulging of this your treatise there be or were any differences of opinion in England concerning the faith Our Preachers do not differ or teach diverse doctrines in any of their Sermons VVe have for our rule the olde and new Testament the e Articul Relig. in Synodo 1562. Confession of our Church in the Articles of Religion set out by the warraÌ„t of the Scripture alone and to these as to the Analogy of faith we do cleave and there is no graduate in our Vniversities and much lesse Preachers and Pastours in our churches but subscribe thervnto And if heeretofore there have bin some fewe Brownists mis-ledde by a man who afterward was sory for his own over-sight the name of them now as I thinke is not to bee heard of among vs. And such as you cal Puritans did never differ froÌ„ the rest in any point of substance but about circumstances and ceremonies as cappe surplesse and such like and about the manner of Ecclesiasticall regiment even as your secular Priests lately did not thinke fitte to bee ruled by your Arch-priest and his Assistants and yet Garnet your Provincial and Persons the Rectour of your English Seminary at Rome and the Pope himselfe whether by any surreptitious Breve or no doe you looke did thinke fitte to have them so ordered But never were the CouÌ„sellours of Estate nor the Bishops of this kingdome so disquieted with those dis agreements as the Court of Rome the Cardinals there have beene with your gaâ—…les in England in as much as the bruit of these differences heere went but to the Bishop of the Dioces or the High CoÌ„mission at LoÌ„don but your broiles brabbles have passed the Sea crossed Fraunce traversed the Alpes have never ceased ruÌ„ning till they have rapped at the gate of f Appellaâ—… 〈◊〉 Clement 8. Clemens Octavâ—… What the issue of theÌ„ farther wil be time must discover but of this we are assured that to your great discontentment and to the end that we might all the better observe you in our late Soveraignes daies of most happy memorie the fatherly wisedome of our châ—…stest Church governours and the moderate temper of other men being not so farre of from seemely conformity as heeretofore did to the ioy of all good men reasonablie well cure that wound and salve that sore and so the shame was taken away from Israel And had not this beene yet if your brevity which is but a shuffling colour to make shewe of some things which are not had beene turned into one yeeres or seaven yeeres longity you could not have shewed that in substantiall points of faith there was variaÌ„ce among vs. And therfore for that matter you do wel to do as you
concerning whose appearance Esay did foretell that to s Cap. 2. 2. the mountaine of the house of the Lord c. all nations should flowe And many people should goe and say Come and let vs goe vp to the mountaine of the Lorde But that which you cite of Idols t Vers. 18. And the Idols will he vtterly destroy howsoever it may be applied vnto Christ yet if you looke againe it may well be disputed to belong in that Chapter to another time and matter and then you in referring the whole to the revealing of the Messias may very well be deceived I will not stand vvith you but that Esay and Daniel and David and the other sacred writers do give ample testimony of a copious confluence every way to the Church As also it must be yeelded that men longed for the comming of the fore-appointed Saviour since hee it vvas alone who should bring ioy vnto maÌ„kind Only by the way I do tell you that in delivering the words of Esay you are bould with the text when you put it Our Lord whereas no such word as Our is there to be fouÌ„d But that is your custome to hale in that word throughout the whole newe Testament it neither being in the Greeke nor in the vulgar Latine Onely the 〈◊〉 Rhemists doe enioyne In 1. Tim. 6. 20. it to their obedient children that they must not say The Lord but Our Lord as we say Our Lady for his mother not the Lady this they make to be a marke of difference betweene themselves so speaking and vs saying after the Scripture The Lord. And accordingly our English people doe practise it if they savour of Poperyâ—… so much that in all my life I have scant heard any in coÌ„mon speech alwaies saying Our Lord but that party hath more or lesse beene tainted that way 7 Furthermore when you name Heathenish Idolatrie doe you give it that Epitheton as meaning that Christ would put an end to the horrible superstitions of the Ethnicks but that there should stil be Idolatry in your Synagogue which by no meanes you wil forgoe Or is it rather your minde that all Idolatrie is heathenish and that there can bee none in the daies of the newe Testament Indeede so M r. Bristow your good maister woulde make vs beleeve saying x Motiv 32. So must wee everie vvhere vnderstand Idols in the olde Testament that they were figures of Heresyes in this time of the nevve Testament no other Idols being now but Heresies Ponitur Idolum quanâ—… do novum dogma constituitur c. An Idoll is sell vp when a newe Position or Heresy is erected saith Saint Hierome the most learned expert In Ier. 32. interpreter of the Scriptures Saint Paule also himselfe giving his voice thervnto where by Baal the Idoll that God did speake of to Elias Rom. 11. be teacheth vs to vnderstaÌ„d the erroneous wicked doctrin against Christ 3. Reg 19. of his incredulous Countrie-men the Iewes of his time This is good Logicke M r. Bristow and for the sweetnes of the conclusion fit to be studied in your Popish Vniversities An Idoll is set vp when a new doctrine is erected which is a figurative vnderstanding Baal may in some application signisie an erroneous doctrine Ergo there bee now no other Idols but Heresies neither have bin vnder the Gospell By this reckoning you doe well in your Catechismes to leave out the second commandement as not at al belonging to the newe Testament But why did Saint Iohn after Christs death and ascension too bidde y 1. Ioh 5. 21 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Babes keepe your selves from Idolls And is it not saide else where speaking of times after the opening of the z Apoc. 8. 1. seventh seale and when the sixt a Cap 9. 13. Angell had sounded his trumpet that is to say towards the end of the world that men b Cap 9. 20. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 repented not of the deedes of their handes that they should not worship Devils and Idols of gold and silver and brasse stone and of wood which neither can see neither heare neither goe which being taken with al the circumstaÌ„ces is a most manifest convictioÌ„ that in the later daies there should be materiall Idols To which may be added the Idols destroied by CoÌ„stantine three hundred yeares after Christ the intolerable Idolatry which in this last age hath beene discovered to be committed in the East Indies America and many parts of Africa by diverse Ethnicks and Infidels which did do inhabit there Therefore you cannot so run away escape but that eveÌ„ now also Idolaters you may be This I note to shew how your Popery doth hang vpon gimols T. HILL NOw if the Religion of the Papists as these new men tearme them be false arronious then is it against the Messias and consequently it is a Religion of the Devils owne invention and hee the maister and inspirer thereof and so by it he is served and worshipped and then must it needes follow that the Prophets were false yea Christ himselfe saide not truely in telling his Disciples that the Prince of this world that is the Divell should then be cast out and that he would draw all to himselfe for that since his passion the Divell bath had a more large and ample dominion then he had before G. ABBOT 8 Very bluntly boisterously is your second PropositioÌ„ here connected to your former where we wil not be straight-laced toward you but readily yeelde you the tearme of Papists For if Christians be such as depend vpon Christ you may wel be called Papists as resting your summnÌ„ bonuÌ„ vpoÌ„ the Popes pleasure determination Neither shall you neede much to presse vs to grant that your Religion or rather SuperstitioÌ„ is false erronious yea against the Messias as far forth as the abuses of it stretch of the Divels owne invention For Saint Paule doth teach vs that it is c 1. Tim. 4. 〈◊〉 2. 3. doctrine of Divels to speake false in hypocrisie to forbid to marrie to abstaine from meates vvhich God hath created to bee receaved vvith giving of thankes the first wherof most of you pleÌ„tifully performe the second you inhibit to some men at all times the third to all men at some times and that not for state-governmeÌ„t but for Religion sake But the sequel of your inference doth prove to be a most discinct and dissolute thing for howe will it then followe that the Prophets were false and Christ saide not truely Marry in telling his Disciples that the Prince of the worlde that is the Devill should then bee cast out and that he would drawe all to himselfe Which doe you so expound as that all Nations of the world should immediately after his death resurrection and ascension be converted to the faith should alwaies so coÌ„tinue which your former words may wel seeme to import by
giue them a milder appellation of Romanistes and Papistes or in Lâ—…in Pontifiâ—…ij because they fetch their Dictates and Oracles from Rome and more respect the voice of their Pope then the voice of Almightie God they not sparing to thrust that miserable man into Christs place and to make him not so much a ministerial aâ—… 〈◊〉 monstrous head of their vn-Catholike Congregation And since the name of Papists doth so please the that in the former Chapter they â—…ssume it and in this Chapter they 〈◊〉 it giving reason vvhy they shoulde haue it as beeing all one vvith their pretended Catholikes wee will not envy it them but vvith good liberty they may take it Neither shall they neede to trouble themselues so farre as to cite Saint Chrysostome for the ratifying of it His words are these f Homil. 33 in Acta But if we wil also haue the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of any man it is not as from the beginners of heresies but as from those who are rulers â—…ver vs do governâ—… the Church The reason of which speech in that reverend Father I cannot hastily gesse at since wee finde not that in or before his time the Christians were called by the name of any of the Rulers over the Church not Petrians noâ—… Paulians nor any such name Only his owne adversaries tearmed theÌ„ who did sticke close vnto him g Soâ—…omen lib. 8. 21. Iâ—…ita his proper name being Ioannes and the appellation of 〈◊〉 beeing afterwarde given vnto him as a Cogâ—… for his eloquence In which respect it is probable that for the defence of himselfe and those which followed him in the truth he did vse the words before cited T. HILL BVt yet the Catholikes are not called Papists but only of a few Lutherans in Germany and of some other their adherentes in other countreyâ—…â—…ere about for in Greece Asia Afrike and in the Inâ—…s as iâ—… Italy Spaine Sicily and in other countreyes of Europe the 〈◊〉 of Papists iâ—… vâ—…terly vnknowne The name therefore of Papists is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vsed but only of a few and never heard of before Luther 〈◊〉 for that hee coulâ—… not call them after the proper name of any one man because there was nevâ—…r any such in the Church which â—…ther brought vp any new doctrine or changed the Religion of his Predecessours G. ABBOT IF you would you might quickly know that names are given for distinction sake wheÌ„ those persons to whom the names belong are to bee distinguished from a generall sort they haue names more generall but when from a speciall comprehended in their own generall they are to haue appellations more special In Greece if a man had beene disposed to put a difference betweene one that was learned and the vulgar vnlearned people it had been a good note of distinction to say he is a Philosopher But when the question grew betweene several Sects their opinions then for more particular difference it was not enough to say that Diogenes was a Philosopher but he was a Cynick such a one was an Epicurean another a Peripaâ—…eticke this an Academike that a Platonicke In some sence it is enough to say that in the yeare 1588 her Maiesty of England had against the Spaniard a campe of so many thousand English resolute meÌ„ religious and well appointed but when there is question of particulars in that campe then the Oxford-sheere men had those Captaines the Wilt-shire men these and their colours were several So if in India or Asia the opposition must be betweene the Infidels or Mahumetans on the one side and the servants of Christ of what sort soever they be on the other side it is enough to say in generall thus or thus do the Christians But if there be occasion to particularize any thing then the Christians in Spaine or those in Germany are thus and thus affected VVhen speech is of the doctrine of Mahomet opposed to Christianity the name Mahumetane will comprehend the Persian and his subiects the Turke and his vassals the kings of Argier Tunis and Marocco and all that are vnder them But when we talke of the difference in Mahomets profession betweene the Turke and the Persian vvhich hath on either party cost much bloud we say the Persian thus holdeth the Turke beleeveth thus Wheresoever in Christendome there is disagreemeÌ„t in ReligioÌ„ some holding for the Pope and some other against him there the name Papist is frequent this is not only in Germany but God be praysed for it in Norway and Sweden and Denmarke in Polonia in Fraunce England Scotland the Low Countryes whersoever else the Gospell is knowne either openly or secretly Yea in Italy Spaine and Sicily not only the name of Papistes but the whole doctrine of Popery woulde quickely come in question were it not for your bloudy Inquisition or cruell massacring otherwise of such as bend not that way And yet they be not able to extirpate Gods truth As for the Greekes they loue you not neither like of your Religion and Asia Africa and the Indies knowe very little of our differences in Profession vnlesse it bee by the Christians themselves and that onely heere and there as at Aleppo peradventure or some other Marte towne except you vvill name a fewe creekes or corners of Africa and the East Indies where the Portingales have incroched or those partes of the VVest Indies where the Spaniards have devoured vp almost all the olde inhabitants and planted themselues and to aske of these Portingales and Spaniards whether they bee ought but Catholikes is not to aske a mans felow but to aske a mans selfe whether he be a theefe or no But surely the Infidels or Turkes or Greekes do neither call you nor know you by that name And if Luther were the first who gave you that title of Papiste which pleaseth you so much you are behoulding to him for fitting you so right not that you might not lustly have bin so called before But hee having occasion to display your impiety to the full and God inableing him with learning and knowledge as also with spirit and wit for that purpose hee gave you a name most sutable to your nature which is the truest vse of appellations and names It very well agreeth with you for if Christians be those who harken vnto Christ and are directed by him you may well be Papists who depend on the onely voice and direction of the Pope T. HILL WHereas 〈◊〉 Heretikes have â—…ver take their names of some one who began that Havesy as the Nestorians of Nestorius the Pelagius of Pelagius Lutherans of Luther Calvinists of Calvin c. And although Luther tearmed them Papistes yet knevve hee so vvell in his conscience that they ever had beene and ought to bee called Catholikes as that he caused his followers to change their Creede in saying I beleeve the Christian Church and not I beleeve the Gatholike 〈◊〉 Mo. 1. Church for feare least they should be thought to
religion or retaine not the same doctrine Even so it is touching the beleefe of the Protestantes in England of those which you in spite call Puritaines in Scotland and of them whome you tearme maliciously Libertines in Holland and Zeland They teach no other libertie then what the r Galat. 5. 1. Apostle teacheth and biddeth vs to stande fast in it For the shewing of your skill I entreate you to let your scholers heare one pointe of moment or materiall vvherein all those Churches which before I named doe differ Speake it out if you can tell what Touching the Lutheranes in Denmarke and many places of Germany I haue toulde you before that in one pointe of the Eucharist they disagree from the rest of the Churches which the LORD in time may sende to bee reconciled and wee pray vnto him for the same But your comfort vppon that discorde is small For as Anthonie sometimes Kinge of Navatre and father to the most Christian Kinge of Fraunce now raigning s Commentaâ—… Relig. Reip. in Gall. lib. saide to the Embassadour of the Kinge of Denmarke exhorting the reformed French to bee of Luthers doctrine There bee fortie points wherein Luther and Calvine doe differ from the Pope and in nine and thirty of them they agree betweene themselues and in that single one they dissent Their followers therefore should do well to ioyne in the greater number against the Pope till they had ruinated him and vvhen his heart is broken they should fall to compound that last single difference God in his good time may graunt this to bee done although in the meane while hee doe exercise his spouse asseemeth good to himselfe T. HILL LAstly I doe bore consider with my selfe if I should refuse the Catholike Romans religion so vniversally taught ' received and professed throughout all the world so many ages togither and embrace any of these new sillie sects adventuring my soule there-vpon what all my progenitours auncesters of they were here againe and sawe mee die so would say vnto mee I gesse they woulde vse such speeches as thâ—se vvhat doest then condemne all our iudgementes and doings Doest thou maligne that Religion which we so highly esteemed and sought to advance Doest then sende vs all to hell and damnation Wilt thou iudge thy selfe vviser and more in Gods favour then any of vs were And many such like speeches I thinke they would vse G. ABBOT 27 I doubte not but in this Reason you haue borrowed of your neighbours as well as you did in others before although it be not my hap to trace you heere as formerly I haue done But the reckoning vp of those your places in the Easterne parts of the world are by me certainly held not to be your own which I conceiue by the complexion of all the rest of your book For your phrases and appellations bestowed on Luther and Calvin Father Persons is your schoole-master But because you are devoted vnto blinde Bristowes Motiues if you haue beene sparingly with him in all this Chapter before yet heere you conclude with s Motiv 36. him about our Predecessours VVhere you might haue remeÌ„bred that to speake properly neither our auncesters shall iudge vs neither shall we iudge our auncesters but Iesus Christ shall iudge both and hee will not take for good payment that which we follow by imitation of our parents but what wee doe or haue done after his owne commandements How often in the Scripture are men blamed for walking in the waies of t 1. King 15 34. cap. 16. 19. 26. Ieroboam of other their Auncesters How often do the u Psa 106. 6 Dan. 9. 6. 16 godly confesse and deplore their fathers sinnes before God What precepts be there to that purpose as that Salomons wife vvho representeth the spouse of Christ should u Psal 45 â—…1 forgot her owne people and her fathers house What a praise is it to x a Kinâ—… 8â—… 〈◊〉 Hezekiah to y Cap. 21 24 Iosiah and divers other that having idolatrous parents they did rather looke to their father which is in heaven then to flesh and bloud vpon earth If this instruction of yours should haue gone for currant the Iewes should scant haue received the doctrine of Christ but the Gentiles without all question shoulde haue kept them to Iupiter to Apollo to Aesculapius because if they had done otherwise they had condemned the way of their forefathers By this rule our auncesters heere in Englande should not haue received baptisme and the Indians and Iaponians whome you say so fast without booke should haue worshipped their old Idoles The complaint which you here make in the person of our predecessours was made before by Symmachus to the Emperour Valentinian in the daies of Saint Ambrose speaking thus in the name of the city Rome z Ambro Epist lib 5 Most noble Princes you fathers of the Countrey reverence yet my yeares vnto which my rootes of devotion haue brought me I will vse my ceremonies which I received from my grandfathers for I repent not my selfe of them I will liue after mine 〈◊〉 fashion for I am free But Saint a Ibidem Ambrose comming afterward to answere all these obiections teacheth that there is one who in matters of religion is rather to be beleeued then all the world besides Concerning God whom should I rather beleeue then God himselfe But of this argument I may haue occasion to speake more at large 28 Onely now thus much I adde that if any of our parents offended God and dyed in damnable ignorance who woulde say that for their sakes and company we should thrust our selues into hell ' If any of them were right they will not grudge that wee should haue more light opened vnto vs then they in their time saw even as those holy Iewes vnder the law fore-seeing what would be vnder the Messias envyed not to the Apostles and other of that age the more perfect liuely knowledge of Christ. But leaving the definition and determining sentence of all vnto the Lords secret iudgement into which we must not ofter to prease or intrude we do hope that many of those who lived in the time of darkenesse had that mercy shewed vnto them that their soules doe rest in peace Such is Saint Cyprians opinion in the like case b De sacrâ—…mento dominici caliâ—… Epist 68 And see most deare brother if any of our Predecessours either ignorantly or simply did not obserue and holde this which the Lorde taught vs to doe by his owne example and ministery by the favour of the Lorde there may bee pardon given to his simplicitie If any of them did holde the foundation concerning their being iustified by the bloud of Christ alone and besides that did repent of all their errours knowne and vnknown committed by ignorance or wilfulnesse we feare not but that the same God who gaue vnto them some measure of knowledge and would require of theÌ„
English Papist to shew out of the Fathers of the first sixe hundred yeeres diverse pointes of Popery as their private Masse or that the cōmuniō was administred but in one kind or that publike praiers were saide in a language not vnderstood or that the Pope was called the vniversal Bishop or the head of the church or that mē were taught this faith that the body of Christ was contained in the Sacrament substantially really corporally carnally or that Christes body was at once in a thousand places or that there was elevatiō adoratiō of the Eucharist diverse such other matters which the Bishop did constantly deny not to be knowen or taught in those times of the first Church The substance of this h An. 1560 Sermon made at Paules Crosse did D. Humfrey rehearse writing the life of the saide M. Iewel and afterward interserting his ovvne iudgement concerning many matters in difference hee groweth to this head that the onely exacte way of reformation of abuses of determination of truth is the vvorde of GOD that it alone is to bee made the iudge Vppon vvhich insisting hee inferreth that therefore Maister Iewell gaue too much and yeelded to the Papistes more then equity and was too iniurious to himselfe when hee tooke not the surer easier shorter course of triall by the Scriptures alone but gaue larger scope of expatiating into the Councels Fathers But most absurdly is your Popish conclusion gathered out of this that therfore D. Humfrey knew or confessed that the Fathers of the Primitiue Church were against vs and him You should rather haue inferred thus much that D. Humfrey thought that M. Iewell had a sure matter in hand when needing to referre all but to the Scriptures he appealed also to the Fathers that both by the witnesse of God and man he might avouch his assertions In case of triall for land we know that authentical writings and evidences are the best and most absolute meanes of deciding right but if he who oweth and possesseth the writings knowing the integritie of his cause shall not refuse also to haue his quarrell tried by the testimonies of indifferēt mē in the coūtrey he hath departed so much from his owne right and done more then he need to do If then his friend shoulde say that therein hee hath yeelded to more then meete and did himselfe a wrong by it by yeelding his adversary many exceptions wheras he might haue tyed him onely to one should not a stander by make an absurd collectiō if he should gather vpon this that the litigants friend savv well that the witnesse of the Countrey would goe against him And especially when he whom it most concerneth shall by the testimony of those to whom he appealed make good all his asseverations This was the Bishops case and no otherwise then thus was it reported by the Venerable Doctour And albeit this may appeare to bee thus to every one who will read the narration yet because Bristow Campian and you take it all one from another and other may yet take it farther your people be still abused as if so learned a man as D. Humfrey had both disliked M. Iewels words and given sentence touching the Fathers against vs for the farther satisfaction of the Reader I desire these thinges to be marked First that Doctour Humfrey in that booke concerning M. Iewell as also in his i Secund pars Iesuitis other against Campian doth frequently cite the old Fathers for vs in all questions of difference that occurre Ergo he doth not thinke that the Doctors are all on the Papists side and not on the Protestants Secondly that in'all his Lectures Disputations and Sermons he was most copious in citing and alleaging the ol◅ Fathers to confirme our doctrine and to enervate Papistry as not only we may remember who often heard him but divers of our Fugitiues now beyond the Seas who were of his time in this Vniversity Thirdly to this particular that in the very k Fol. 124 place where he speaketh of the Bishops challenge he putteth these wordes before And here is necessarily to be repeated that Protestation or denunciation which was heard out of this place of Paules Crosse which our adversaries doe calumniate to bee vaine and frivolow which notwithstanding they will not deny to be true who are of the better sort of wit and of more excellent learning Can a man speake plainer then the Doctour doth here iustifying that to be true which the Bishop said and calling the adversaries exception to the Challenge a calumniation Fourthly that in the l Fol. 212 place where he saith that M. Iewell yeelded too much when he went to farther triall then the Bible he subioineth this Which he did not willingly but yet he did it not besides the purpose that he might s◅ay you with the testimonie of your Fathers as with your owne sword He calleth the Fathers yours not because he thought them so to be but as Ironically because you bragge of them as if they vvere yours Thus doeth the vanity of this slaunderous cavill appeare to every one who will not wilfully close his eies against truth then for all this forged obiection the Fathers shall as wel be ours as yours T. HILL ANdyet because they haue found by experience that to teach Doctrine contrary to the anciant Fathers soundeth but badly in the peoples eares in their Sermons they gladly nowe and then alleage the authoritie of some Doctour or Father when they can by any meanes wringe or wrest any p◅ece of a sentence so as it may seeme to make for them And indeed he who alleadgeth the Doctours most is most praised of the audience as you well know which is a pittifull thing in them and ridiculous in the Preacher who cānot but know if he haue read any of them himselfe that the Fathers detest vtterly that Doctrine which he wresteth them to confirme and in the meane time the poore audience thinketh that they were of this new Religion whose simplicity is therein most pitifully abused by the Preacher G. ABBOT 23 YOur hatred to the Gospell maketh you easily giue sinister interpretations to our actions We mencion the Fathers in our Sermons to shew that our expositions of Scripture are not singular and m 2. Pet. 1. 20 private interpretations but such as were received in the Primitiue Church to convince the Antichristian enemy who like Iack Bragger boasteth of antiquity when in comparison of Gods booke his beliefe is nothing else but noveltie It is not because wee woulde blinde the eies of the people or stoppe their eares since as you say to teach doctrine contrary to those Auncients soundeth ill for if there be iust cause we plainly and evidently shew where we dissent from them Which wee doe being warranted by the word of God which n Galat 1 8 teacheth vs that if an Angell come from heaven and preach otherwise then the Apostles haue preached