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A27361 A iustification of The city remonstrance and its vindication, or, An answer to a book written by Mr. J.P. entituled, The city remonstrance remonstrated wherein the frequent falsifyings of the said Mr. J.P. are discovered, the many charges by him laid upon the remonstrance and its vindicator, disproved, and the parity and agreement of the remonstrance ... with the propositions, declarations, remonstrances, and votes, of both or either House of Parliament manifested / by John Bellamie. Bellamie, John, d. 1654.; Price, John, Citizen of London. City remonstrance remonstrated. 1646 (1646) Wing B1814; ESTC R4476 42,384 58

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observation of the Covenant and their expectation of conformity of the people of England thereunto expressed in the late Declaration we doe resolve by the grace of God not to receive impression of any forced construction thereof and is it now become an acting in a direct evident and obvious manne● against the expresse Will and Word of God for the Common-Councell to professe their resolutions to yeeld obedience to the desires and expectations of the House of Commons in their not receiving impressions of any forced constructions of the Covenant I desire your leave here also in a parallel way to set downe the Scripture by you here brought and another branch of the Propositions sent by both House of Parliament to the King and to desire your judgement whether that also be in a direct evident and obvious manne against the expresse Will and Word of God WORD OF GOD Propositions of both Houses of Parliament Article the 6th Mat. 7. 12 A● you would that men should do unto you so do unto them for this is the Law and the Pro●hets For as much as both Kingdomes are mutually obliged by the same Covenant to endeavour the nearest conjunction and uniformity in matters of Religion That such unity and uniformity in Religion according to the Covenant as after consultation had with the Divines of both kingdoms now assembled is or shall bee jointly agreed upon by both Houses of Parliament of England and by the Church and Ki●gdom of Scotland be confirmed by Acts of Parliament of both Kingdomes respectively   CITY REMONSTRANCE Mat. 7. 1● As you would that men should doe unto you so doe unto them for this is the Law the Pro●hets The 4 Petition That no person disaffected to Pre●byterian government saith the Remonstrance s●t forth or to be set forth by the Parliament but according to your usuall course this to blind the reader you sti●● leav● ou● may be employed in any place of publike trust and the● you add which is not at all in that Petition those words viz. But some effectual course setled to proceed against such persons as in the 3 Petition where there is not the shadow of a word tending to any such purpose I confesse the words you● cite are in the 2d Petition but not at all in the least manner applyed to persons onely disaffected to Presbyterian government for there is no such word in that Petition nor any thing looking that way neither doth the Common-Councell in any part of their Petitions so much as desire that persons onely disaffected to Presbyterian government should by some effectuall course setled be proceeded against and therefore methinks you should have been a little more considerate before you should thus falsly and unjustly have charged the Common-Councell to act in a direct evident and obvious manner against the expresse Will and Word of God This I will grant you that in the second Petition the Common-Councell doth desire that all Anabaptists Brownists He●etiques Schismaticks Blasphemers and all such Sect●ries as conforme not to the publike Discipline established or to be established by Parliament may be fully declared against and some effectuall course setled for proceeding against such Persons but is there no difference between Anabaptists Brownists Heretiques ●chismaticks Sectaries and persons but disaffected to Presbyterian government I pray tell mee your minde plainly would you have Heretiques and Blasphemers 〈◊〉 such as deny the Scriptures to bee the Word of God such as professe the Scriptures are writings onely probable to be beleeved as the Story of King Henry the eighth● such as deny the Trinity of Persons in the Unity of Essence such as call the Trinity a three headed Cerberus ●uch as deny the Divinity of Christ such as deny the immortality of the Soule and such as deny that there is a God or say if there bee a God the Devill is a God such as say God is the author of sin such who hold that all men shall bee saved yea and the Devills too such as say that Christs humane Nature is defiled with Originall sin as well as ours such as hold that all R●ligions Worships Consciences whether Paganish Jewish Antichristian c. should bee tolerated would you have these tolerated or would you not have some effectuall course setled for proceeding against such Persons or doe you thinke these to be no more dangerous if permitted to broach these Here●ies and Blasphemies in the Kingdom then to permit persons otherwise every way peaceable godly and orthodox because meerly disaffected to Presbyterian government I desire here also in a parallel way to set downe the Scripture by you here brought and a Vote of the House of Commons of the 30 Iuly 1641. and to desire your judgement whether that also be in a direct evident and obvious manner against the expresse Will and Word of God WORD OF GOD Vote of the House of Commons die V●neris 30 Iubii 1641. Mat. 7. 12 As you would 〈◊〉 men should doe unto you so doe unto them for this is the Law and the Prophets Resolved upon the Question That this House doth conceive that the Protestation made by them is sit to be taken by every person that is well-affected in Religion and to the good of the Common-wealth And ●herefore doth ●eclar● That what person soever shall not take the Protestation is unfit to bear Office in the Church o● Common-wealth Thus having given you these Articles of the Propositions of both Houses of Parliament sent to the King for a safe and well grounded Peace and the other passages of both or either House of Parliament which I have placed after your example in a parallel way against the Scriptures by you brought and desired your judgement whether these also do act as you would have the world beleeve the Petitio●s in the Remonstrance doth in a di●ect evident and obvious manner against the expresse Will and Word of God I pray you now also seriously to consider of those Petitions in the Remonstrance and compare them together with thes● Propositions for Peace and the other passages of both or either House of Parliament and then tell mee what the Remonstrants in those three so much by you condemned Petitions for the substance of them did more desire of the Parliament then both Houses of Parliament have now proposed to the King or hath been formerly by them in these passages of both or either House of Parliament declared to the world The● you say Presbyteriall government is not in the Covenant there●●re a● 〈◊〉 and this say you you inforce upon others though you will receive no forc●d con●●ruction of the same your selves Answ. Where did the Remonstrants say that Presbyteriall government was in the Covenant and if they never said it as they never did why doe you here bring it in as if they had said it I hope that at last you will learne to forbeare falsifying It is true that in page 2 of the Remonstrance they speake of Ordinance● for
receiving into their Honourable House by any p●bli●e act manifested to the world the least dislike thereof and yet must Lon●●●s Remonstrance by one of its own members be charged with raising a prejudice against the Parliaments innoceney I pray consider whether by this you doe not first charge the House of Lords for their being well satisfied with that which yet you say doth raise a prejudice against the Parliaments innocencie And secondly whether you doe not prejudge the judgement of the House of Commons and therein breake the Priviledge of Parliament in passing such a sentence and laying such a charge upon that which yet lyeth under their consideration I onely offer these two Quaeries to your after or second consideration But for a ● this you say that this shall bee fully evidenced before you have done Answ. I pray remember what it is that in this you promise and be sure that in the particulars of it you make your Charge good otherwise you must not bee offended nor take it ill if according to the common Proverbe you be judged to be one of them which will undertake more in an houre then you can performe in an age I appeal to the Reader whether as yet either the Moderate reply or this your Remonstrance Remonstrated hath in any one instance which either of you have given or in all that both of you have done done any thing which proves that the City Remonstrance hath raised a prejudice against the Parliaments innocency and t●●ly you must needs beare with me in this that I cannot judge your bare word to be of that Authority as to beleeve it because you affirme it especially considering the honorable House of Commons hath not as yet passed any the least displeasing sentence against it and the honorable House of Lords hath declared that they are wel satisfied with the particulars contained in it And both House● of Parliament since their receiving of this Remonstrance have in the Propositions sent to his Majesty for a safe w●l grounded Peace● even in terminis proposed more to his Maje●ty for his R●oyall assent as unto Reformation of Religion then the Remonst●ant● have desired in their second third and fourth Petitidus so much condemned by you for the drift of all that they desire is 〈◊〉 an equall conformity of all the Subjects of England to the publike dis●ipline and doctrine set forth or to bee set forth by Authority of Parliament as by reference to those three Petitions will clearely shew but both Houses of Parliament in their great wisdome faithfulnesse and care for the publike safety and peace of the Kingdome have in the fifth and sixth Articles of the Propositions in these words thus proposed viz. Ar●ic 5. That Reformation of Religion accordin● to 〈…〉 by Act of Parliame●● in such manner as both Ho●ses have agreed 〈…〉 agree upon after consultation had with the Assembly of 〈◊〉 And Article 6 it thus followeth For 〈◊〉 much as ●ot● Kingdome● are 〈◊〉 oblig●d by the same Covm●n● to indeavo●● the ●●arest ●onjunction and unif●rmity in matters of Religion that such unity and 〈◊〉 in Religi●n according to the Covenant as after 〈…〉 Divines of b●t● Kingdomes now assembled 〈…〉 shall bee 〈◊〉 agreed ●pon 〈◊〉 Houses of Parliament of England and by the Ch●rch and Kingdome of Scotland be 〈◊〉 by Acts of Parliament of both Kingdomes respectively And therefore were I thought worthy to bee of your Councell I sho●ld advise you to bee so inge●●ous as in this to confesse your error and not to imagine that you see more in the City Remonstran●e then either one or both Houses of Parliament can yet discerne and for after times I wou●d perswade you to forbeare the thus unjust besm●a●ing and falsly acc●sing that City wh●reof you are a member 〈◊〉 amongst whom under God you enjoy your livelihood You g●e on and say 〈…〉 Reply 〈◊〉 with adversary ●pon adversary representi●● the Au●hor of the said ●ooke a lyer because 〈◊〉 tells 〈…〉 a friend to the Parliament Ans● Truly these are fine 〈◊〉 if they were true to beget 〈…〉 Remonstrance and to ingratiate the opposer● in the eyes of the people But I pray what doe you 〈…〉 I must needs say you tread in the 〈…〉 Replyer 〈…〉 and it 's very 〈…〉 the book and the page if you 〈…〉 and tell us the truth you have told 〈…〉 you are called a Lyer and where you are 〈…〉 you are a friend to the Parliame●● 〈…〉 be taking with children 〈…〉 The next thing you fall upon is in your fourth page and that is the word Humble Remonstrance and upon this you descant in some similitudes as of Court complements and Cavaliers carriage and then in plaine termes you call it a Remonstrance invective against the Parliament Answ. You are full of charges though never so false and liberall in your expressions though you make nothing good I conceive you thinke your selfe safe and secure and perhaps you are so from ever giving an accompt of these your actions to any earthly authority but yet methink● the words of the ninth Commandement should be of some authority to you and beare some sway with you viz. Thou shalt not beare false witnesse against thy neighbour If not against a particular person then sure not against a Corporation a City whereof your self are a member Then you are offended at these expressions viz. Two late Libells published by two Anonymusses and you aske why I call them Libells before I prove them so Answ. They were so in themselves before I named them so neither called I them Libells for any of those reasons which you would have the world beleeve I did As first because they are written by an Antipresbyter nor yet because they containe in them lies falsities untruths though all these in severall instances are in the vindication made good against them nor because they are little Bookes nor yet singly because they are written against the City or because they are without the Authors Names but for these two last reasons joyntly and together A Libell I call that which is an untrue and therefore an unjust Charge upon or against a Person a Corporation a Court without any name annexed to make good what is there charged and in this respect I appeale to the Reader whether I did not truly and justly call them Libells Lastly before you come to the body of the Booke you have yet another fling against the Title A Vindication of the City Remonstrance that is say you a Vindication of that which is invindicable And therefore say you better it would bee that both the City Remonstrance and the vindication thereof were written in ashes with the finger of vanitie then in marble with the pen of a 〈◊〉 c. Answ. For ought I yet see it is but one 〈◊〉 opinion and he none of the gravest neither that the City Remonstrance is invindicable and what you have said to prove it to be so I desire the Reader to judge
for truly I cannot dis●ern it But of this I am confident that it is app●oved by the Ch●rch of Scotland witnesse the Letter now in Print for all the Kingdome to see which was sent from the Generall Assembly 〈◊〉 the Church of Scotland to the Lord Major Alderme● and 〈…〉 of London June 18. 1646. manifesting thei● approbation of it and thankfulness for it And sure I may say● it is app●●ved by the generality of the ablest grave● and 〈…〉 witnesse their Petition subscribed by eight Thous●●● 〈◊〉 Hundred thirty and four of their Hands presented the twenty third of Iune 1646. to the Court of Common-Councell giving them Thankes for it testifying their approbation of ●t and des●●ing them to wait upon the House of Co●m●ns fo● their gracio●s answer to it which Petition is by Order of Co●●t since Printed And me think● you should not forget that the same Remonstrance for the substance of it was not onely well accepted but also graciously answered by the House of Lords And therefore ●urely in the judgment of all these the City Remonstrance ●s not ●udged 〈◊〉 But perhaps you ar●e of the ●ind● of 〈…〉 6. 16. who was 〈…〉 reason And I make as little 〈…〉 yet it is and will be 〈◊〉 all the Reformed Churches in Europe not one excep●●● 〈…〉 Q●arrells 〈…〉 is you have to say against the 〈…〉 whether in all probability the Reply and not the Remonstrance hath raised those disturbances for the Subject of the Remonstrance is an earnest desire of the settlement of government by one Uniforme Law for all the Subjects of England to submit equally and alike unto which I am sure must needs tend to peace and quietnesse but the d●ift of the Reply is quite contrary and therefore without all peradventure it 's this and its abettors and not that and its promoters which hath desired and occasioned these Divisions both in Church and State In pag. 9 you go about to shew that the Common-Councell by their Remonstrance did act in a direct evident and obvious manner against the expresse Will and Word of God and for proofe of this in page 11 you give us some Scriptures and some passages in the Remon●●rance which you say or at least would have the world beleeve is in a direct evident and obvious manner against the expresse Will and Word of God but you never tell the reader how or wherein they are so but thus you deliver them LET US TRY THEN WORD OF GOD CITY REMONSTRANCE Rom. 14. 5. Let ●very man bee fully perswaded in his owne minde That as we are Subjects of one Kingdom so all may bee equally required and here to delude the Reader you insert without making the least change of the character these following words as if they also were in the Remonstrance viz. Be they perswaded in their own minds or not perswaded to yeeld obedience to the government set forth or to be set forth by the Parliament Now I shall wholly all along in these your Parallels leave it to the judgment of the Reader to consider whether there be such an antipathy between these Scriptures and those Petitions of the Remonstrance as in the Remonstrance without your insertion they are exprest and crave your leave in the same way of parallel to set the same Scriptures with some branches of the Proposition● sent by both Houses of Parliament to the King and other pass●ges of Parliament and then desire your judgement whether they also 〈◊〉 a direct e●ident and obvious manner against the expresse Will and Word of God WORD OF GOD Propositions of both Houses of Parliament Article the 5th Rom. 14. 5. Let every man bee fully perswaded in his owne minde That r●formation of Religion according to the Coven●nt bee setled by Act of Parliament in su●h manner as both Houses have agreed or shall agree upon after consultation had with the assembly of Divines   ●CITI REMONSTRANCE Rom. 14. 13. That no man put a stumbling block or an occasion to fall in his b● others way That all such Sectaries as conform not to the publike Discipline established or to bee established by Parliament saith the Remonstrance but this you leave out may be fully declared against and some effectual course setled for proceeding against such persons Here say you is a stumbling block● viz. a menace in a brothers way Answ. But why doe you leave out the beginning of that prayer in the Petit●on which you cite●●t tels you the meaning of the Remonstrants by the words all such Sectaries ●iz Those immediately before mentioned as Anab●ptists Brownists Heretiques Schismaticks Blasphemers doe you not by omitting the mentioning of these indeavour to del●de the Reader I pray put down that Petition wholly together and let the Reader be fairly dea●t with all and have it as in the Remonstrance it is exprest an● then see how it is opposite to the Scripture by you set against it 〈…〉 〈…〉 I desire here also in a parallel way to set downe the Scriptu●● by you brought and a passage or two of the Parliaments and 〈◊〉 desire your judgement whether they also be in a direct evident and obvious manner against the expresse Will and Word of God WORD OF GOD ●Parliaments Declaration upon his Majesties Declaration after the Ba●taile at Edgebill Pag. 659. Rom● 14. 13. That 〈…〉 put a 〈…〉 blo●k or an occasion to fall in his brothers way Had not his Majesty seduced thereunto by that Popish and Prelaticall faction denyed his conse●t to the Bil for the Assembly so often by both Houses presented to him wee had long since manifested to the world by a well setled reformation our 〈◊〉 dislike of ●* Brownisme and Anab●ptisme Remonstrance of the State of the kingdom page 19. We do declare that it is far from our purpose or d●sire to let loose the golden reynes of discipline and government in the Church to leave private persons or particular Congregations to take up what for me of Divine Service they please for wee hold it requisite that there should be throughout the whole realme a conf●rmity to that Order which the Laws enjoyne according to the Word of God M●t. 7 12. As you would that men should doe unto you so doe unt● them for this is the Law and the Propheis Page 3. Wee will not receive impression of any forced construction of the Covenant compare this with Page 7. Will you never leave fals●fying where doe you finde any such expression in the Remonstrance either in Page 3 or 7. as this is viz. we will not receive impression of any forced construction of the Covenant The House of Commons in their late Declaration of the 17 of Aprill 1646. doe say Wee expect that the people of England should not receive impressions of any forced construction of that Covenant and in obedience thereunto the Remonstrants doe say in page 2 and 3 of the Remonstrance that in pursuance of that Noble resolution of this Honourable House for the due