Selected quad for the lemma: religion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
religion_n	king_n	prince_n	subject_n	3,995	5	6.4954	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A82002	A sober and temperate discourse, concerning the interest of words in prayer, the just antiquity and pedigree of liturgies, or forms of prayer in churches : with a view of the state of the church, when they were first composed, or imposed. Together with a discovery of the weakness of the grounds upon which they were first brought in, or upon which Bishop Gawden hath lately discoursed, the necessity of a liturgie, or the inconveniency of altering the English liturgie, the utility of church musick, and the lawfulness of ceremonies : in which are mixed reasons justifying those godly ministers, who forbear the use of the Common-prayer, against the late out-cryes of the said bishop. / By H.D. M.A.	H. D. (Henry Dawbeny); Collinges, John, 1623-1690, attributed name.	1661 (1661)	Wing D449; Thomason E1086_14; ESTC R208152	100,305	119

either think themselves commanded to serve God in a vvay vvorse then their Princes use or that their Soveraign and Prince serve God worse and less acceptably then they do certainly the greatest honour love and safety of Kings is from the sameness of true Religion vvith their Subjects as to the main XII VVhat an excellent Doctrine this is if it were true to engage the King of France against all his Protestant Subjects from whom he differs as to Religion in the main yet are they as loyal to him as any other doth the Protestant Religion teach disloyalty towards Princes differing from their Subjects in the main of Religion We defie such Doctrine and all the Assertors of it XIII Doth it infer a difference in the main of Religion because our Soveraign thinks fit to use Forms of Prayer and we use none Is this a Language worthy of a Divine Is the Mode of Worship and the Main of Religion the same thing XIV How shall they think themselves commanded to use a better or worse Religion upon whom nothing is imposed at all which is all we beg and against which the Doctor argues XV. How doth the Prince and his Subjects in this case the first using Forms of Prayer in publick Devotion the latter none more differ in the main of Religion than the Christians of two Families in a Parish do where the housholders so far differ each from other Or how shall they differ more upon this liberty than Dr. Gauden himself allowes who would not have all persons in their Family-duties tyed up to these Forms which yet are the Kings daily Service in his Houshold XVI To be short these Discourses are but ad populum phalera Pretensions in which all the judicious world sees there is nothing of Reason or Argument Qui vult decipi decipiatur If God hath so far given up men that they cannot see it But notwithstanding all that is or can be said the Servants of God who differ from their Brethren in this thing must be brought into a suffering estate The Lord grant them Wisdom and Faith and Patience and provide for his people more able and faithful guides than we have approved our selves while we had a liberty to work in his Vineyard and if it be a sin in any for this reason to forbid us to speak to poor perishing souls that they might be saved we shall be so charitable as to beg of God that it may not be laid to their charge But we hope and pray for better things for the poor souls over whom God hath set us CHAP. XV. Bishop Gaudens Arguments for Church-Musick examined The Novelty of Musick in Churches evinced Not in the Primitive Church Not in any Reformed Church Condemned by Aquinas Erasmus and by the Generality of Protestant Writers The Jews no Pattern for Christians in it I. THe Bishop having spent himself much in devising reproachful terms for such as are not satisfied in their Consciences as to the use of the Lyturgy and arguing for the use of the Forms of Prayer that he might leave no part of his work undone comes to vindicate the Quiristers Singing men and boies and the use of Musick also in the worship of God It is only fit he saies for those mens rudeness to abandon Church-Musick who intended to fill all things with the Alarms of war and Cries of Confusion How charitably this is spoken with reference either to the Purer Primitive Church or the lately Reformed Churches or many of his Brethren the sequent Discourse will evince We durst not tender reviling for reviling but commit our case to him that judges righteously and offer our thoughts in this thing to all sober Readers who understand ought of Ecclesiastical Story or right Reason II. But by what Topicks will this great person prove the Lawfulness of Church-Musick Just. Martyr Qu. Resp. Resp 107. Did this also come from the first Century Surely no. For Justin Martyr who lived in the Second Century lets us know that the Church then judged it a childish Serving of God and that it was not received in the Church in his time His words are these 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In his time there was only plain simple singing used in the Church and more than that viz. with instruments of Musick they looked upon as a puerile carnal Service III. Indeed the Bishop fetcheth it high enough for he agrees with Durantus in making David the Author of Organs nor pretendeth he any authority but that of the Jewish Church That there was even by Gods Institution musical Instruments used in the Jewish Church is not to be denied whether in the Synagogues or only in the Temple is doubted the latter believed But what kind of Musick Pol. Virgil l. 1. de inv●rer c. 15. Hospin de Ong. Templ is not certain Both Polydore Virgil Hospinian and many others agree our Organs were not then known in the world When they first were found out Polydore saies is uncertain and in his 3 Book reckons them amongst those things whose first Inventers are not known Sure we are Davids Instruments were stringed Organs i.e. Instruments not such as we call Organs IV. But may we then agree that what David used in the worship of God we may Else the Bishops Argument from Davids use of Instruments proves nothing Let us then have Altars and Frankincense Calvin Psal 37. which saith Mr. Calvin are every whit as lawful as Musical Instruments in Gods worship But surely nothing which was figurative and typical in the Jewish Service ought to be continued by us which their Instruments of Musick were they prefigured our spiritual melody to be made in our hearts to the Lord the sweet Musick also of a Conscience justified by Faith and at peace with God saith Dr. Willet and so Zepperus and others agree But who knows not Willets Synops p. 593. Quaere 2 Sam. im ch 6. v. 9. that the Jews had carnal Ordinances as the Apostle cals them which we must not imitate them in who John 4.24 are obliged to worship God in Spirit and Truth V. It is as uncertain when Organs were first brought into Churches as when they were first devised Marianus Scotus tel sus that they were first sent of a Token to King Pepin in France in which Aventinus agrees but adds that they came not into any Church in France till the year 828 when by the industry of a Venetian Priest Ludovicus then King and willing to be at the charge they were there set up Balaeus tels us Vitellianus brought them in Anno 660. Bellarmine saith it was very late What Balaeus and Platina say 22ae Aq. fum q. 91. art 2. resp ad 3. 4. arg that Vitellianus brought them in cannot be true No nor what Almonius saith who saith that Ludovicus Pius brought them in for it is plain by Aquinas his determination against the use of any Musick in Churches as Judaical and carnal that they were