Request of the generall Councel of Nice Banished Arius with some of his fellowes Ecclesiast Histor l 1. Cap. 19.20 The same Constantine made a severe Law against the Donatists the like proceedings against them were used by Valentinian Gratian Theodosius as Augustine reporteth in Epist 166. onely Julian the Apostate graunted liberty to Hereticks as well as to Pagans that he might by Tolerating all weeds to grow choake the vitalls of Christianity Which was also the practise and sinne of Ualens the Arian Queene Elizabeth as famous for her government as most of the former It is well knowne what Lawes she made and executed against Papists Yea and King James one of your owne Witnesses though he was slow in proceeding against Papists as you say for Conscience sake yet you are not ignorant how sharply and severely he punished those whom the Malignant world calleth Puritans men of more Conscience better Faith then the Papists whom he Tolerated Discusser First for mine owne part I would not use an Argument from the number of Princes witnessing in profession or practise against persecution for cause of Conscience c. Truth and Faith must not be received with respect of persons pretious pearles are found in muddy shells The most High chooseth the poore of this world to be witnesses to his Truth and Buchanan dying was going thither whether few Kings were comming Defender This Chapter then might have been spared for it neither maintaineth his cause nor refuteth my answer to his friends Argument but yeeldeth up the invalidity of the Argument from such a Topick place As from the number and votes of Princes But by his leave the answer which I gave to his argument is not taken from the like number of Princes but from the greater piety and presence of God with those Princes who have professed and practised against Toleration It is truly said Suffragia non sunt numeranda sed ponderanda Heroicall wisdome magnanimity and zeale is not the lesse to be esteemed because it is found in the spirit and counsel and practise of Princes CHAP. 59. A Reply to his Chap. 62. Discusser Secondly I observe how inconsiderately I hope not willingly the Answerer passeth by the reasons and grounds urged by these three Princes In King James his speech he passeth by that golden Maxime that God never loved to plant his Church by bloud Defender The Discusser is mistaken when he saith I passed over their reasons and grounds inconsiderately though he hopeth not willingly for indeed I passed them over willingly but not inconsiderately For I well considered either the reasons wanted weight or else did not impugne the cause in hand For instance this speech of King James That God never loved to plant his Church by bloud though it be a Truth of weight yet it doth not touch this cause It is farre from us to defend the planting of Churches by bloud that is to compell men to yeeld themselves to the fellowship of the Church by bloudy Lawes or poenalties the Church of Christ admitteth no members but a willing people Psal 110.3 Neverthelesse that hindereth not but as the Church was purchased and planted by the bloud of Christ so he that shall goe about to supplant and destroy the Church of Christ his bloud may justly fall upon his owne head Discusser Secondly That civill obedience may be performed by Papists this was another reason of King James passed over by the Answerer Defender No marvell that I passed it over for I did not finde it in the Letter For though the King say as the Letter reporteth him I onely declared to be secured for civill obedience which for Conscience cause they were bound to performe yet the King doeth not say That civill obedience may be performed by Papists standing stedfast to the rules of their owne Religion For if the Bishop of Rome upon pretence of hereticall pravity shall excommunicate a Protestant Prince dissolve the Subjects Oath of Allegiance to him depose him dispose of his Kingdome In this case which often falleth out how can civill obedience be performed by the Papists Discusser Thirdly The Kings third ground is his observation in Revel 20. That persecution is a true certaine note of a false Church The wicked are Beseigers the faithfull Beseiged Defender I subscribe to the King that persecution properly so called that is the oppression of any for righteousnesse sake is a note of a false Church but nor a certaine note For againe I say that persecution properly so called may be sometime found in the true Church For which of all the Prophets did not the Church of the old Testament persecute Acts 7.52 And yet that persecution was not the true and certaine note of a false Church For then God had left no true Church upon the face of the earth But this I graunt That such persecution where ever it is found It is a degree of falshood and A postacy in that Church But what a vast distance is there between the just censure of Apostasticall and Hereticall seducers and disturbers of the Churches peace and truth and between persecution As for the other speech The wicked are beseigers the faithfull are beseiged It may well be said of the seige spoken of in that 20. of the Revelation But if it should be put for a universall Maxime Royall Authority cannot make it good Divinity When the ten Christian Kings shall hate the Whore of Rome and eate her flesh and burne her with fire Rev. 17.16 I suppose the Discusser will not say the wicked are Beseigers the faithfull are beseiged Discusser In King Stephens speech of Poland he passeth by the true difference between a civill and a spirituall Government I am said Stephen a civill Magistrate over the bodyes of men not a spirituall over their soules Defender King Stephens speech may well stand and the cause still untouched The Magistrate is a Ruler over the Bodies of men not over their soules He cannot command their soules nor binde their Consciences nor punish their spirits It is the Lord alone can reach them That which the King or Magistrate can doe or doeth in this case is to punish the bodyes of men for destroying or disturbing Religion Discusser To confound these is Babel and Jewish to seeke for Moses and bring him from his Grave c. Defender It is Babel indeed for civill Magistrates to make Lawes to binde Conscience and to excommunicate transgressors of those Lawes But to punish false Prophets and Seducers of Gods people to Idolatry was never the practise of Babel but it was and is their practise not onely to Tolerate them but to advance and encourage them If it were a Jewish seeking of Moses and a bringing him from his Grave to punish Seducers for Idolatry then after Moses was buried that Law Deut. 13. was abrogated But his buryall and Gods hiding of the place thereof was rather a confirmation and establishment of it then any Abrogation or Impeachment
Epistle thus expâ—esseth Julians both practise and end Julianus deserter Christi et Inimicus Haereticis libertatem perditionis permisit et tum Basilicas Haereticis reddidit quando Templa Daemonijs Eo modo putáns Christianum Nomen posse perire de Terris sivanitati Ecclesiae de qua lapsus fuerat invideret et sacrilegas Dissensiones liberas esse permitteret that is Julian the forsaker and enemy of Christ Permitted to Hereticks liberty of perdition and at the same time restored Pallaces or royall meeting-houses to Hereticks when the Temples to Divells thinking by this meanes the Christian Name might perish from the earth if he should envy that unity to the Church from which himselfe fell and permit Sacrilegious Dissensions to enjoy their liberty What the Discusser subjoyned as weakning this end that Christiaaity began to be choaked not when Christians lay in cold Prisons but Beds of ease and persecuted others This doth not at all weaken the right apprehension of Julians end For 1. Julian might ayme at that end though he might not have attained it Secondly evident it is that Toleration of bryars and thornes and such are Heresies and Blasphemies doe choake the life of Christianity For beside experience the Text in Rev. 8.10.11 Declareth that by the fall of a Starre called wromewood into the waters the third part of the watters were embittered by it and many men dyed that drunk of those warters And what was that Starre but Arius and Constantius Thirdly Though Beds of ease have been one meanes of choaking Christianity yet that hindereth not but the Toleration of all weeds to grow with the good seed is another Fourthly when he saith Their persecuting of others was a meanes of choaking Christianity It is a plaine contradiction of his former speech that Constantine did more hunt to Christs Church and Kingdome then the raging fury of the most bloudy Neroes CHAP. 63. A Reply to his Chap. 66. Discusser HE ends this passage with approbation of Queene Elizabeth for Persecutiag the Papists and a reproofe to King James for Persecuting the Puritans Defender I neither did in termes approve the persecution of the one nor reprove the persecution of the other The words I spake of them are recited above Chap. 58. which containe an Historicall Narration of the Res gestas in this case of both the Princes but neither approvement nor reprovement of them It was enough to answer the Prisoners Argument that as great Princes as the three named by him for Toleration might be named against Toleration As Queene Elizabeth for one and King James for another who persecuted Puritans though he Tolerated Papists Discusser But if Queene Elizabeth did well to persecute the Papists according to her Conscience King James did not ill in persecuting others according to his Defender It followeth not For Queene Elizabeth might doe well in punishing seditious or seducing Papists according to Conscience rightly informed and King James doe ill according to Conscience misinformed Besides It may be the worse when a man persecuteth those whom he knoweth to be innocent against his own Conscience Or suppose Conscience by often sinning against the light cheks of it be by the just Judgement of God blinded and seared In such a case to doe a wicked act according to Conscience doth not extenuate but aggravate a sin in that such a man sinneth not only in doing a corrupt act but which is worse with a corrupt Conscience But with what Conscience King James did persecute Puritans I judge not the judgement of such things is with the Lord. Discusser But then Mr. Cotton must graunt that if King James did ill in persecuting Puritans according to his Conscience then either King James was not fit to be King and had not the essentiall qualifications of a King in not being able rightly to judge who are to be persâ—cuted who not or else He must confesse that King James and all Magistrates must persecute such whom in their Conscience they judge worthy to be peâ—secutâ—d Defender None of these things will follow For though King James did evill to persecute godly Ministers and other good Christians studious of Reformation yet he was fit to have been a King and wanted not the essentiall Qualifications of a King For he was by lawfull Succession the next heire of the Crowne and was besides endued with many royall guifts of wisdome and Knowledge both of Scripture and Policy which if he did not alwayes attend to in his Administrations the defect was not for want of Essentiall Qualifications but for want of employing his Qualifications according to the right Rule of the word of God For by the Rule of the word those whom they called Puritans ought not to have been persecuted no though they had been erroneous in their way which they were not For though they consented not to the State-Government of the Church yet neither did they tumultuously and seditiously resist it But suppose Princes and Magistrates doe want some Qualifications meet for their calling as this for one Knowledge and Judgement rightly to discerne who may be punished for matters of Religion who not yet such Qualifications are not of the Essence of the calling of a King or Magistrate but belong onely to the Integrity of it Yea such Kings or Magistrates as want such cleare discerning of this point they have a just Call to forbeare all execution of civill Censures in matters of Religion till they be better informed Or else as the Discusser saith truly they may persecute the Sonne of God in stead of the sonne of Perdition CHAP. 64. A Reply to his Chap. 67. Discusser IN the second place I aske what glory to God what good to the soules and bodies of their Subjects did these Princes bring in persecuting Defender Persecution of Innocents never brought good to Princes or Subjects but accidentally as the Discusser said above that Nero in persecuting made the hearts of Christians more sweet and fragrant like pounded Spices But such evill ought not to have been done that such good in such a way might come of it But the good that is brought to Princes and Subjects by the due punishment of Apostate Seducers and Idolaters and Blasphemers is manifold First it putteth away evill from the people and cutteth off a Gangreene which would spread to further ungodlinesse Deut. 13.5 2 Tim. 2 16 17 18. Secondly it driveth away Wolves from worrying and scattering the Sheep of Christ For false Teachers be Wolves Matth. 6.15 Acts 20.29 And the very name of Wolves holdeth forth what benefit will redound to the sheep by either killing them or driving them away Thirdly such Executions upon such evill doers causeth all the Country to heare and feare and doe no more such wickednesse Deut. 13.11 Yea as these punishments are preventions of like wickednesse in some so are they wholsome Medicines to heale such as are curable of these evills Zach. 13.4 5 6. Fourthly the punishments executed upon false
under them But they all were strangers from the life of God yea most averse and opposite yea cruell and bloudy Persecutors of the Name and followers of Jesus and yet unto these is subjection commanded Now then I argue If Paul had commanded this subjection to Romane Magistrates in spirituall causes to defend the Truth to punish Hereticks neither of which they could discerne nor judge of but by Trust from others as Pilate condemned Jesus he must in the Judgement of all men have put out the eye of Faith and Reason and sense at once Defender Not in the Judgement of all men for besides Calvin and Beza whose Judgement you have heard all those Interpreters who expound this place in the Romans of the Magistrates power in punishing spirituall evill doers as well as corporall they none of them doe so judge that Paul in commanding the Churches to yeild subjection unto civill Magistrates in matters of Religion did put out the Eye of Faith and Reason and sense at once For first it is one thing to yeild subjection to the unrighteous Decrees of Ignorant and Pagan Magistrates another thing to obey their Ordinances in matters of Faith and worship and Government of the Church The former of these Christians did yeild unto the Romane Magistrates even subjection unto the Death the other they neither did nor ought to yeild as knowing God was to be obeyed rather then men Secondly though it be true whilst the Romane Emperours and Magistrates were Pagans and Persecutors they were incompetent Judges to discerne and give Sentence in the spirituall matters of Christian Religion yet the word of Christ who commandeth a Duty commandeth all the necessary meanes which tend to that Duty And therefore in giving them a Power and charge to execute vengeance on evill doers and that in matters of spirituall unrighteousnesse against the Church as in matters of Civill unrighteousnesse against the Common-wealth It behoved them to enquire and listen after true Religion to heare and trie all and upon serious deliberate and just scruting to hold fast that which is good and so prevent the disturbance thereof by the contrary It was no vaine charge of the Holy Ghost Psal 2 10 11 12. If Christ have an Iron Scepter in his hand to crush all States and Kingdomes Emperours and Princes as well as private persons Be wise now therefore ô yee Kings be instructed yee that are Judges of the Earth serve the Lord with feare rejoyce unto him with trembling Kisse the Sonne least he be angry and yee perish in the way Thirdly the cases of Religion wherein we allow Civill Magistrates to be Judges are so fundamentall and palpable that no Magistrate studious of Religion in the feare of God but if he have any spirituall discerning as all truly Christian Magistrates have and even Pagans have discerned between innocent Christians and turbulent Seducers he cannot but judge of such grosse corruptions as are unsufferable in Religion as hath been opened above Though we reserve to the Prophets and Churches Judicium Propheticum as hath been said above yet we allow Judicium Politicum to Civill Magistrates studious of Truth as all ought to be and the Judgement of Discretion unto all Christians But as for such Magigistrates as are meerely naturall and Pagan though Christians be bound to subject themselves unto them with patience yet such Magistrates ought to forbeare the exercise of their Power either in protecting or punishing matters of Religion till they have learned so much knowledge of the Truth as may enable them to discerne of things that differ But this forbearance of theirs is not for want of Authority in their callings nor for want of Duty in their Consciences but for want of evidence to them in the cause In which Case Magistrates are wont to forbeare their exercise of their Power and to respit Judgement even in Civill causes not for want of Authority or Duty to doe Justice But for want of ripe and full cognizance of the Cause CHAP. 49. A Reply to his Chap. 49. Discusser VVHy then did Paul himselfe appeale to Caesar Acts 25. unlesse that Caesar though he was not yet yet he ought to have been a fit Judge in such matters Answ Paul appealed to Caesar not to judge the cause of his Religion but to defend him from civill violence and slanderous accusations about sedition mutiny civill Disobedience c. From which Caesar as a supreme civill Magistrate ought to defend him Defender This appeale of Paul to Caesar doth evidently hold forth three things 1. That there is a lawfull and needfull use of civill Magistracy unto Christians 2. That Church Officers even of highest ranck the Apostles themselves and other Ministers are subject to civill Authority as well as private Christians 3. That Paul did submit to Caesars Judgement-seate the tryall of his innocency as well in matters of Religion as in civill conversation For he pleadeth his innocency that he was guilty in none of those things whereof they did accuse him and for tryall hereof he appealeth to Caesar ver 11. Now the things whereof they did accuse him were offences against the Law of the Jewes and against the Temple as well as against Caesar ver 8. And offences against the Law of the Jewes and against the Temple were matters of Religion And yet even in these Paul appealeth to Caesars Judgement-seat for tryall of his innocency Discusser But if Paul in this Appeale to Caesar had submitted his Religion which was the cause of Christ his Ministery and Ministration to the Romane Emperours Tribunall he had sinned First against the light of Reason Secondly against the cause of Religion Thirdly against the holy Calling of a Christian Fourthly against his owne calling of Apostleship Fifthly against the holy name of God c. Defender All these sinnes might with some colour have been charged upon Paul if he had appealed to Caesar to Judge whether his Religion or Ministery or Ministration were of God or no. But that was no point of his Appeale But whether his Religion or Ministery or Ministration were guilty of any capitall crime against the Law of the Jewes or against the Temple or against Caesar Now in this case Paul might safely appeale to Caesar and that to the Honour of God of his Apostolick and Christian Calling and to the glory of his Religion The Reasons against Pauls Appeale in this case are but bul-rushes CHAP. 50. A Reply to his Chap. 50. Discusser HAving dispatched two Arguments against the founding of the civill Magistrates power in spirituall causes in Rom. 13. First from the Testimony of Calvin and Beza the second from Caesars incompetency and insufficiency to Judge of spirituall matters I come now to the third Argument taken from the nature of the Magistrates weapons he hath a Sword and that Sword is a civill Sword a Sword of civill Justice which being of a materiall and civill nature serveth for the defence of Persons Estates Families Liberties of
Religion may not be propagated by the civill Sword Vnto which I Reply what meaneth then this passage in his first Answer to the former speeches of the Kings viz. We acknowledge that none is to be constrained to believe or professe the true Religion till he be convinced in Judgement of the Truth of it Defender If it be observed my Agreement with Hilary then let it be observed that the Discusser in whetting the words of the Authors of the Letter against us layeth a false charge upon us as if we maintained such persecution for cause of Conscience as is condemned by the Ancient Writers Of whom Hilary is named for one and for the first and yet in the Discussion it is found that we agree with him In that Answer to the speeches of the Kings when I acknowledged that none was to be constrained to beleive or professe the true Religion till he be convinced of the Truth of it I did not meane that after he was convinced he might then be constrained with civill censfures for neither beleiving nor professing to beleive is to be constrained with civill censures But yet thus farre he may be constrained by withholding such countenance and favour from him such encouragement and employment from him as a wise and discerning Prince would otherwise grant to such as beleive the Truth and professe it so far as they are convinced of it in Judgement and Conscience For such as will not walke according to their Light are neither trusty servants to God nor man Discusser That Answer to the speech of the Kings implyeth two things 1. That the civill Magistrate who is to constraine must judge of all the Consciences of their Subjects whether they be convinced or no. 2. That when the civill Magistrate discerneth that his Subjects Consciences are convinced then he may constraine them vi armis hostilely And accordingly who knoweth not what constraint lyeth upon all Consciences in Old and New-England to come to Church and to pay Church-Duties which is upon the point though with a Sword of a finer gilt and trim in New-England nothing else but that which he confesseth Hilary saith should not be done to wit a Propagation of Religion by the Sword Defender Neither of both these things are implyed in that Answer Not the first that the civill Magistrate must then Judge of all of the Consciences of their Subjects whether they be convinced or no For it implyeth no more then that he is not to constraine them till he see they be convinced If he never see them convinced he is to see they be never constrained But how far the Magistrate may discerne and judge in matters of Religion hath been spoken above Nor the second For the constraint I spake of was not by positive meanes vi Armis but negative withholding such trust and employment from such as he seeth are not faithfull and trusty to their God of whose Truth they are convinced and yet withhold it in unrighteousnesse I know no constraint at all that lieth upon the consciences of any in New-England to come to Church neither doe I know that any scruple lyeth upon any Conscience in New-England that withholdeth any from hearing the word amongst us But least of all doe I know that any are constrayned to pay Church-duties in New-EnglaÌ„d Sure I am none in our own Town neither Church-members nor other are constrained to pay any Church-duties at all What they pay they give voluntarily each one with his owne hand without any constraint at all but their owne will as the Lord directs them Discusser Againe although he confesseth that Propagation of Religion ought not to be by the Sword yet he maintaineth the use of the Sword when persons in the Judgment of the Civill State for that is implyed shall blaspheme the true God and the true Religion and also seduce others to damnable Heresie and Idolatry Defender True but this is not the Propagation of Religion but the preservation of it or if it doe conduce to Propagation it is onely removendo probibens CHAP. 67. A Reply to his Chap. 70. Discussing the Testimony of Tertullian Discusser TO Tertullian the Answerer giveth the like Answer Tertullians Intent saith he is onely to restraine Scapula the Romane Governour of Africa from persecuting the Christians for not offering Sacrifice to their Heathen Gods and for that end fetcheth an Argument from the Law of Naturall Equity not to compell any to any Religion but to permit them to beleive or not to beleive at all Which we acknowledge we judge the English may permit the Indians to continue in their unbeliefe Neverthelesse it will not therefore be lawfull to tolerate the publick worship of Devils or Idols in a Christian State or the seduction of any from the Truth In this passage he agreeth with Tertullian but it is well known that in New-England they not onely permit the Indians to continue in their unbeleife which they cannot help but they also permit or tolerate them in their Paganish worship which cannot be denyed to be a worshipping of Devils And therefore consequently according to the same practise did they walke by Rule and impartially not onâ—â— the Indians but their Countrymen French Dutch Spanish Per … Turkes Jewes should also be permitted in their Worships if correspondent in civill obedience Defender It is not true that the New-English doe tolerate the Indians who have submitted to the English protection and Government in their worship of Devils openly What the Indians doe that are not under the English Government the English have no warrant from God or Law of Nations to restraine them nor is it in the power of the English to restraine the private Worship which some of the Indians under the English Government may possibly adhere unto the this day What courses have been used to bring them on to Civility and to the knowledge of our Religion by faire meanes are not pertinent to the present controversie to relate It hath been an Article of the Covenant between such Indians as have submitted to our Government that they shall submit to the ten Commandements which they thought reasonable Some of their Sachims young children are brought up with us and trained up to knowledge Such of them as come to our Houses are fed with curtesie and care taken often to instruct them as farre yea further then they are greatly willing to heare Some of them of late frequent our markets to get mony by selling Fish Baskets whortleberries Cramberries which taketh them off from some idlenesse Some English are studious of the Indian Language to deale with them in their owne Tongue Of late some of our Ministers have preached to a Congregation of them whil'st others at first interpreted what was preached but since one of our Ministers preacheth to them in their owne Language The other day whil'st I was at the Colledge with other Elders an Indian from Plimmouth side an hopefull youth was received into some employment in
had been then but on his way to Ephesus which is a narrow point of time it is more then propable if Timothy had been then at Ephesus he would have said Tychicus have I sent to thee to Ephesus CHAP. 39. A Reply to his 39. Chap. Discusser BVt from this place in Timothy 2 Tim. 2.25 in particular I argue thus 1. If the Civill Magistrates be Christians or Members of the Church able to prophesie to the Church of Christ then they are bound by this command of Christ to suffer opposition to their Doctrine with meeknesse and gentlenesse waiting if God peradventure will give them Repentance So also it pleaseth the Answerer to acknowledge in these words It becometh not the spirit of the Gospel to convert Aliens to the Faith such as the Samaritans and unconverted persons whether in Ephesus or Creete with Fire and Sword Defender The Answerer is still of the same mind though he might strike in upon the advantage that if the Magistrate be also a Prophet he may doe some things as a Magistrate which he may not doe as a Prophet yet he willingly acknowledgeth that if a Magistrate be also a Prophet yea whether he be a Prophet or no he ought not to seeke to subdue and convert Aliens to the Faith by Fire and Sword Discusser Secondly if the Oppositions be within and the Church-members become scandalous in Doctrine I speake not of scandalls in the Civill State which the civill Magistrate ought to punish It is the Lord onely as the Scripture in Timothy implyeth who is able to give them Repentance and to recover them out of Satans snare c. It is true the civill Sword may make a whole Nation of Hypocrites as the Lord complaineth Isay 10. and as befell our Native Country in a few scores of yeares in the severall Reignes of Henry 7. Henry 8. King Edward Queen Mary Queene Elizabeth under whom our Nation was as ready to change the fashion of their Religions as of their Suits of Apparell which hath been their sinfull shame Defender If Opposition rise from within from the Members of the Church I doe not beleive it to be lawfull for the Magistrate to seeke to subdue and convert them to be of his mind by the civill Sword But rather to use all spirituall meanes for their conviction and conversion But if the Opposition still continue in Doctrine and Worship and that against the vitals and Fundamentalls of Religion whether by Heresie of Doctrine or Idolatry in Worship and shall proceed to seeke the Seduction of others I doe beleive the Magistrate is not to tolerate such opposion against the Truth in Church-members or in any Professours of the Truth after due conviction from the word of Truth Nor is it an Objection of any weight that neither the Magistrate nor his Sword can give Repentance unto such For neither can he give Repentance unto such persons as are scandalous to the civill State whom yet notwithstanding the Discusser himselfe acknowledgeth the civill Magistrate ought to punish Though the civill Sword should not make the opposers Hypocrites yet better tolerate Hypocrites and Tares then Bryars and Thornes In such cases the civill Sword doth not so much attend the conversion of wicked Seducers as the prevention of the seduction of honest minds by their meanes What the Kings and Queens of England have done in former or later times either by violent Persecution of the Truth or in preposterous maintenance of the Truth we have cause rather to bewaile it and so hath the Discusser too if he be an English man then to justifie it as also bewaile the like vanity justly complained of in sundry of our English Nation to be as ready to change the fashion of their Religion as of their Rayment And yet he cannot be ignorant that the Lord hath chosen to himselfe sundry faithfull witnesses out of that Nation who have continued stedfast unto the death in the Profession of the Truth and have not been carried away either with the feare of civill Sword or with the deceitfull insinuations of unstable but seducing Teachers to depart from the simplicity and Truth of the Gospel But howsoever wofull and wonderfull changes have been made of Religion in England in the Reigne of foure or five Princes yet it is no more then befell the Church of Judah in the dayes of Ahaz and Hezekiah Manasseh and Josiah yet the Prophets never upbraided them with the civill Magistrater Power in causes of Religion as the cause of it Better some vicissitudes in Religion then a constant continuance in Idolatry and Popery by Princes referring all causes of Religion to Church-men The Prophecie of Englands Revolt againe to Popery wanteth Scripture Light CHAP. 40. A Reply to his Chap. 40. Discusser BVt it hath been thought and said shall Oppositions against the Truth escape unpunished will they not prove mischievous I answer as before concerning the blind Guides their case being incurable is rather to be lamented since none but the right hand of the Lord in the meeke and gentle Dispensing of the word of Truth can release them c. Defender So it is with all scandalous offenders against the civil State none can give them healing Repentance but the right hand of the Lord Jesus in the dispensing of the word of Truth yet that doth not restraine Magistrates from executing just Judgement upon them So neither doth it restraine them from executing the like just Judgement against these though not to procure the Repentance of incurable obstinate Hereticks and Idolaters yet to prevent the seduction and subversion of others What though a dead soule though changed from one Worship to another like a dead man shifted into severall suites of Apparell cannot please God Heb. 11.6 And what though Faith be that gift which proceedeth alone from that Father of Lights Phil. 1.29 Yet better a dead soule be dead in body as well as in Spirit then to live and be lively in the flesh to murder many precious soules by the Magistrates Indulgence And better he die without Faith then to live to seduce many honest minds to depart from the Faith Discusser I adde a civill Sword hardneth the followers of false Teachers by the sufferings of their false and Antichristian Seducers And secondly it begetteth in them an Impression of the falshood of that Religion which cannot uphold it selfe but with such Instruments of violence and wanteth the soft and gentle commiseration of the blindnesse of others Defender A civill Magistrate ought not to draw out his civill Sword against any Seducers Whether Hereticks or Idolaters till he have used all good meanes for their conviction and thereby clearely manifested the bowels of tender commiseration and compassion towards them But if after their continuance in obstinate Rebellion against the Light he shall still walke towards them in soft and gentle commiseration his softnesse and gentlenesse is excessive large to Foxes and wolves But his bowels are miserably straitned and hardned
aske whether or no such as may hold forth other Worships or Religions Jewes Turkes Antichristians may not be peaceable and quiet Subjects loving and helpfull neighbours faire and just dealers c. It is cleare they may in all experience and yet in spirituall and Mysticall Account they are ravenous and greedy Wolves Defender It hath been declared above that we doe not hold it lawfull to constraine by Civill Sword Jewes or Turkes or Antichristians to be of our Religion whether they be good Subjects loving Neighbours faire dealers yea or no. Nor doth the Apostle in that Text which the Discusser hath in hand speake of men out of the Church Jewes Turkes or Antichristians but of such as enter into the Church and are of themselves Now if Church-members should Apostate from Christ and of Christians become Jewes and Turkes and Antichristians and draw away Disciples after them I would demand of any man whose Conscience is not past feeling of the danger of damnable Heresies whether such Members may goe for peaceable and quiet Subjects for loving and helpfull Neighbours for faire and just dealers for true and Loyall to the civill Government If those be peaceable and quiet Subjects that withdraw Subjects from Subjection to Christ if they be loving and helpfull Neighbours that help men on to perdition If they be faire and just dealers that wound the soules of the best and kill and destroy the soules of many if such be true and loyall to Civill Government that subject it to the Tyranny of a forraine Prelate then it will be no advantage to civill States when the Kingdomes of the Earth shall become the Kingdomes of our Lord and they may doe as good service to the civill State who bring the wrath of God upon them by their Apostacie as they that bring downe blessings from Heaven by the Profession and Practise of the true Religion in Purity Discusser I querie secondly to whom Paul gave this charge to watch against them ver 31. They were not the Magistrates of the City of Ephesus but the Elders of the Church of Ephesus Defender Who doubteth of it Discusser Many of these charges and Exhortations given by Christ to the Shepheards and Ministers of the Churches be commonly attributed and directed by the Answerer in this Discourse to the Civill Magistrate Defender Cujus contrarium verumest For looke the Answer through and you shall find not one of these charges or Exhortations given to Ministers were ever directed by the Answerer to civill Magistrates the falshood of the Discusser in this charge upon the Answerer is palpable and notorious And this exhortation in this place the Answerer doth not so much as mention at all either as directed to Magistrates or to Elders Discusser I desire it may be inquired into whether in all the will or Testament of Christ there be any such word of Christ by way of Command Promise or Example countenancing the Governours of the Givill State to meddle with these wolves if in civill things peaceable and obedient Defender This Condition if in civill things peaceable and obedient implyeth a contradiction to the nature and practice of wolves How can Wolves be peaceable and obedient unlesse they be restrained and how can they be restrained and not medled with What Peace said Jehu so long as the whoredomes of Jezabel and her witchcrafts are so many 2 Kings 9.22 Yes may not spirituall whoredomes and witch-crafts stand with Civill Peace No verily the whoredomes and witch-crafts of the Jezabel of Rome tooke away civill peace from the earth and brought in the Turks to oppresse the peace both of Christian Churces and Common-wealths as hath been shewed above Revel 9.15.21 That dreadfull example of Gods vengeance upon Civill States for tolerating and practising Image-worship is a serious and loud warning to all Christian States to beware of such seducing spirits as beare them in hand they shall have peace though they tolerate Idolatrous and false worships in their Territoryes Besides for another example and that approved you find in the Lords Testament Revel 16.4 5 6 7. of which before And for a word of command from Christ to meddle with wolves that grand charter whereby Magistrates are established in the new Testament may abundantly suffice The Magistrate is the Minister of God an avenger to execute wrath upon him that doth evill Rom. 14.4 If the wolfe be an evill doer let him looke at the Magistrate as appointed of God to be an avenger and executor of wrath upon him Say not yea if the wolfe be an evill doer against the second Table but not so if against the first Table or if an evill doer against the bodies and estates of men not so if against their soules For who gave any man commission so to limit the word of God or the power of the Magistrate Besides it hath been often said that he that goeth about to subvert Religion and to destroy soules is an evill doer against the peace of the Civill State Discusser If God had given charge to Magistrates to punish evill doers in matters of Religion he would have given to Magistrates in the world ability to discerne and determine who are sheep and who are wolvish oppressors whom he is bound to punish and suppresse Yea they must be able to discerne this not with others mens eyes but with their owne c. Defender It hath been declared above that Magistrates ought to be so well accquainted with matters of Religion as to discerne the Fundamentall Principels thereof and the evill of chose heresies and Blasphemies as doe subvert the same Their ignorance thereof is no discharge of their duty before the Lord. Such wolvish oppressors and Doctrines and practises as they cannot discerne with their own eyes It will be their sin either to suppresse them because they cannot doe it of faith or to tolerate them because they are destructive to the soules of the people and enemies to the common salvation Gallio is justly censured as a prophane man not because he refused to be a Judge in matters concerning the Jewish worship and Religion for he had noe Law of Caesar whose Deputy he was to judge of it but because he rejecteth the cognizance of such causes of Religion as a Question of words and Names Which made him so â—ame regardlesse of causes of Religion that though the Civill peace was broken by the Jewes in pursuite of Paul the Jewes laying violent hands upon Sasthenes and that before the judgement Seate yet Gallio cared for none of those things Acts 18 15.16.17 Discusser In the third place I Quere Whether the Father who gave the sheep and the Sonne who keepeth them be not greater then all And who can plucke the Elect out of his hand which Answereth the common objection of the danger of devouring soules Defender It doth not Answer that Objection For the Father and Sonne were greater then all in the old Testament as well as in the New And none could then pluck
a City or civill State and for the suppressing of uncivill and injurious Persons or Actions by civill punishment And therefore this Sword cannot extend now as it did in Israel of old to spirituall and soule causes to spirituall and soule punishments Defender I easily hold with the Discusser that the civill Sword doth not extend to spirituall and soule punishments But if the civill Sword ought to extend to the defence of civill men in civill Liberties then why not also to the like defence of Churches and spirituall persons in their spirituall Liberties It is the Office of the civill Magistrate to governe his people in righteousnesse And if spirituall Liberties be in righteousnesse due to spirituall persons as well as civill Liberties to civill persons doubtlesse the Magistrate is defective in Rules of righteousnesse if he onely attend the defence of the civill people in their civill Rights and neglect to defend his spirituall people in their spirituall Rights What though the Sword be of a materiall and civill nature so it was in the Old Testament as well as in the new It can therefore reach no further either then or now then unto the punishment of men in bodily life or civill Liberties But it can reach to punish in these things not onely the offenders in bodily Life and civill Liberties but also the offendors against spirituall Life and soule Liberties What though it be called a civill Sword in common speech It is not a Scripture-phrase so to call it It may as fitly be called the Sword of God as well as the Sword of warre is so called Judges 7.20 which the Discusser guilefully or else unskilfully distinguisheth in this chapter from the civill Sword Now if the Sword of the Judge or Magistrate be the Sword of the Lord why may it not be drawne forth as well to defend his Subjects in true Religion as in civill Peace And as Magistrates are called in common speech civill Magistrates so are they called also in the Language of the Sanctuary Gods Psal 82.1.6 If civill Magistrates are to attend to civill matters are not Gods to attend to Gods matters It was wont to goe for a good Argument â conjugatis homo sum humani nihil â me alienum puto But now by the Discussers Doctrine the Magistrate may say Ego dignatione Divinâ Deus sum Psal 82. quatenus autem Deus sum Divina omnia â me aliena puto Now farre be all such reasonlesse and Paganish yea worse then Paganish Atheology from us Worse then Paganish I say for Pagan Princes accounted their Religion their chiefe care prima cura sacrorum And can a Christian forbid the care of Religion to Magistrates I say not without blushing but without trembling Object But Magistrates were called Gods in the Old Testament not so in the New Now under Christ all Nations are meerely Civill without any such Typicall holy respect upon them as was upon Israel a Nationall Church Ans It is written in the New Testament the Kingdomes of the world are become the Kingdomes of the Lord and of Christ Rev. 17.15 And if the Kingdomes be Gods Kingdomes and the Kingdomes of Christ then the Kings of those Kingdomes are Gods Kings and Christian Kings and what Title is there in all the New Testament that either derogateth from the Titles or Office of Kings Though the Nations now have not that Typicall holinesse which the Nation of Israel had yet all the Churches of the Saints have as much Truth and reality of holinesse as Israel had And therefore what holy care of Religion lay upon the Kings of Israel in the Old Testament the same lyeth now upon Christian Kings in the New Testament to protect the same in their Churches CHAP. 51. A Reply to his Chap. 51. Discusser A Fourth Argument from this Scripture Rom. 13. I take in ver 6. which is a meerely civill reward for the Magistrates worke Now as the wages be such is the worke but the wages are meerely Civill Custome Tribute not the contributions of the Saints or Churches of Christ c. Defender The Contributions of the Saints and Churches are truly called by the Apostle carnall things Romans 15.27 and againe 2 Cor. 9.11 But shall a man therefore thus reason as the wages be such is the worke But the wages are carnall things therefore such is the worke of the Ministers of the Gospel to whom such wages are paid It is true the contributions of the Saints may be called Holy because they are given to God and by his appointment to the maintenance of such as minister in his house about his holy things But these are mentall relations no reall differances in the thigns given to Magistrates and Ministers The wages given to them both are carnall things And consider them both in their proper ends as the rewards given to Ministers are given for their service about holy things so the rewards given to Magistrates are given for their service about righteous things Now if the Purity of Doctrine worship and Government be righteous priviledges of all the Churches in the Common-wealth surely Magistrates doe not well deserve all their wages that suffer the Churches to be bereaved and dispoyled of their spirituall priviledges which is the greatest and best part of their Birth-right Besides the Apostle commandeth the Churches and Saints not onely to pay to Magistrates Tribute and Custome which are civill things but also to poure out all manner of Prayers and Supplications Intercessions and given of thanks for them 1 Tim. 1.1 2. And surely these are spirituall dues and not Earthly And therefore Magistrates owe to the Churches and Saints some Spirituall recompences which the Apostle also there nameth that we may live a quiet and peaceable Life in all godlinesse and honesty ver 2. If therefore the Churches and Saints be not suffered to live a quiet and peaceable Life in Godlinesse and honesty or if they be suffered to live a quiet and peaceable life in ungodlinesse and dishonesty the Magistrates fall short of returning spirituall recompence for the spirituall Duties and services performed for them Discusser Lastly that the Spirit of God never intended to direct or warrant the Magistrate to use his power in spirituall affaires and Religions I argue from the Terme or Title given by God to such civill Officers to wit Gods Ministers ver 6. Defender One would thinke the Argument would rather evince the contrary For what is a Minister but a Servant and what is a servant but he that is at his Masters command for his efficient cause and for his Masters ends as his finall cause How shall then a Magistrate carrie himselfe as a Minister of God and yet fall short and intended so to doe both of Gods Commandements in his Lawes and of Gods worship and glory in the execution of them Discusser But at the very first blush any man will acknowledge a double Ministery the one appointed by Christ in his Church to order the
knew it was out of Question all persecution was unlawfull whether by the Church or the Magistrate an unjust excommunication is as true persecution as an unjust Banishment But if persecution be taken more largely and loosely as it is by the Author of the Letter and by the Discusser for any affliction or persecution for cause of Conscience whether good Conscience or evill whether rightly informed or erroneous If that be the intent of the Letter as it seemed to me to beare witnesse against that then any testimony of Scripture that justifieth a lawfull censure of false and erroneous Teachers doth evince the scope of the Letter to be erroneous which is against all persecution for cause of Conscience Let therefore the Discusser admire at his owne admiration and be astonished at his owne astonishment that wondereth to see an universall negative argued against by a particular affirmative The Letter denyeth the lawfulnesse of all persecution in cause of Conscience that is in matter of Religion I seek to evince the falshood of it by an instance of lawfull Church-prosecution in case of false Teachers Discusser But if the Churches and Angels thereof had sufficient power to suppresse Balaam and Jezabel then all power of Magistrates and Governours in Pergamus and Thyatira though they had been Christian must needs fall to the ground as none of Christs appointment Defender The power of the Churches and Angels of Pergamus and Thyatyra were sufficient for those ends for which Christ ordained Church-power to wit for the healing of the soules of such seducers if they belonged to Christ as also for keeping those Churches pure from the fellowship of the guilt of their Act in teaching false Doctrines whom they had duly censured But the power of those Churches and Angels was not sufficient to prevent the further spreading of the Leaven of their false Doctrines both in such as were out of the Church and in private amongst the members of the Church who might adhere to them Much lesse was the putting forth of the Church-power against them sufficient to cleare the Magistrates of a Christian State from the guilt of Apostasie in suffering such Apostates amongst them who would be ready to solicite many simple soules either to with-hold and with-draw themselves from the Fellowship of the Churches or in the Churches to withdraw from the Lord Jesus Discusser Lastly from this perverse wresting of what is writ to the Church and the Officers thereof as if it were writ to the Civill Officers and State thereof all may see how since the Apostacie of Antichrist the Christian world so called hath swallowed up Christianity how the Church and Civill State that is the Church and the world are now become one flock of Jesus Christ c. Defender Here is no wresting much lesse perverse wresting of any Scripture at all from the Church to the Civill State I intended to apply the Scripture written to the Churches and to the Officers thereof no further then to other Churches and their Officers The Scriptures upon which we call in the Magistrate to the punishment of Seducers are such as are directed to civill States and Magstrates of which divers have been mentioned and applyed before CHAP. 56. A Reply to his Chap. 58 and 59. Discussing the Testimony of some Princes Discusser I Proceed to the second Head of Reasons against persecution for cause of Conscience taken from the profession of famous Princes King James Stephen of Poland King of Bonemia Vnto whom the Answerer returneth a treble Answer 1. Wee willingly acknowledge saith he that none is to be persecuted at all no more then any may be oppressed for righteousnesse sake Again we acknowledge that none is to be punished for his Conscience though misinformed unlesse his errour be fundamentall or seditiously and turbulently promoted and that after due conviction of his Conscience that it may appeare he is not punished for his Conscience but for sinning against his Conscience Furthermore we acknowledge none is to be constrained to believe or professe the true Religion till he be convinced in Judgement of the truth of it but yet restrayned he may be from blaspheming the Truth and from seducing any into pernicious errours This first Answer I believe I have sufficiently cleared the weaknesse of the Foundations thereof in the former discourse Defender And I doubt not but by the help of Christ I have formerly declared and convinced the feeblenesse of the opposition made against them and what firme foundations those Answers are built upon from the Scriptures of Truth Discusser His second Answer is this what Princes professe and practise is not a Rule of Conscience They many times tolerate that in State Policy which cannot justly be tolerated in point of true Christianity Againe Princes many times tolerate Offendors out of very necessity when the Offenders are too many or too mighty for them to punish In which respect David tolerated Joab and his murder but against his will It may be here observed how the Answerer dealeth with Princes one while they are nursing Fathers to the Church not onely to feed but also to correct and therefore consequently bound to judge what is true feeding and correcting and consequently all men are bound to submit to their feeding and correcting Defender The Discusser doth partly falsly and partly fraudulently fasten upon me this dealing with Princes That I make them nursing Fathers of the Church I therein follow the footsteps of the Holy Ghost before me teaching what Princes should be and foretelling what they shall be in the latter dayes Isaiah 49.23 In which place It was not the intent of the Holy Ghost nor mine to threaten the Church with a red of Correction But to comfort the Church with a double blessing First of the Fatherly provision and protection of Princes for the Church Secondly of their subjection to the Church in respect of their spirituall Estate What Princes may doe in case the Church should Apostate and become no Church or in case they should breake forth into Sedition and Rebellion against the Civill State It is another Question which I have not medled with in all this Discourse Neither have I spoken of Princes as bound to Judge what is true feeding or correcting least of all have I said that all men are bound especially in Conscience to their feeding and correcting These are calumnies devised by the Discusser All I have said to my remembrance this way is that Princes are bound to be wise and Learned with holy knowledge that they may kisse the Sonne and be subject to him Psal 2.10.11 And therefore able to discerne of such corrupt feeding as destroyeth the Foundation of Religion and the soules of Gods people that they may be able to restraine such and to preserve the Church from such ravenous Wolves and I deny not that their Subjects are to submit to them herein when they judge according to the Word or howsoever patiently to suffer for well-doing without resistance
of it For may it not justly be conceived That the Lord therefore hid the place of his buriall least the Children of Israel knowing it might goe a whoring after his Sepulchre and it may be offer sweet incense upon it and so such false worship against the law of Moses might come to be Tolerated for honor to the body of Moses But Christ hath abolished a Nationall State or Church which Moses set up in Canaan Though Christ abolished a Nationall Church-State and instead thereof set up a Congregationall Church yet Christ never abolished a Nationall Civill State nor the Judiciall Lawes of Moses which were of Morall equity but established them rather in their place and order He that shed his own bloud to plant his Church did never abolish that Law which enacted that his bloud should be upon him who should supplant his Church If Christs bloud goe to plant it let the false Christs bloud goe for supplanting it Discusser In the King of Bohemias speech the Answerer passeth by that Foundation in grace and Nature that Conscienee ought not to be violated and forced it is a spirituall Rape Defender This was not passed by but prevented in stating the Question where it was said it is not lawfull to censure any no not for error in Fundamentall points of Doctrine or Worship till the Conscience of the offendor be first convinced out of the word of God of the dangerous error of his way and then if he still persist It is not out of Conscience but against his Conscience as the Apostle saith Tit. 3.11 so he is not persecuted for cause of Conscience but punished for sinning against his Conscience Discusser The King observeth that most lamentably true experience of all ages That persecution for cause of Conscience hath ever proved pernicious c. Defender No experience in any age did ever prove it pernicious to punish seducing Apostates after due conviction of the error of their way Wherein did the burning of Servetus prove pernicious to Geneva or the just execution of many popish Preists to Queene Elizabeth or to the english State But the Kings speech may passe if it be meant of persecution properly so called to wit Oppression of the faithfull for the Truths sake yea if it be the punishment of any for error If not Fundamentally pernicious either to Religion or Church-order and that after conviction of Conscience persisted in with obstinacy Discusser Lastly the Kings observation of his owne time that Persecution for cause of Conscience was practised most in England and such places where Popery reigned Implying as I conceive such practises commonly proceed from the great Whore whose Daughters are like their Mother all of a bloudy nature as commonly all wolves be Defender It is no marvell if I passed by this observation in the Kings speech For there is no such observation there to be found If the Discusser had well observed it himselfe he would have found it was not the speech of the King but of the Prisoner And the persecution he speaketh of was not of Antichristians or Hereticks or Idolaters but onely of such as the world nick-named Puritans or the like and of them too without conviction of the error of their way But in that the Discusser maketh England a Daughter of the great Whore and of a bloudy nature like her Mother he speaketh as some other of the rigid Seperation have done before him But I could never yet see awarrant from the rule either of Truth or Love for such a speech Did ever the holy Scripture call any Church an whore that worshipped the true God onely in the Name of Jesus and depended on him alone for righteousnesse and salvation Is it not the part of a base childe or at least a base pare of a childe to call his Mother whore who bred him and bred him to know no other Father but her lawfull Husband the Lord Jesus Christ CHAP. 60. A Reply to his 63. Chap. Discusser NOw Thirdly In that the Answerer observeth that amongst the Romane Emperors they that did not persecute were Julian the Apostate and Valens the Arian Whereas the good Emperors Constantine Gratian Valentian and Theodosius they did persecute the Arians and Donatists Let it be for an Answer It is no new thing for godly and eminently godly men to performe ungodly actions nor for ungodly persons for wicked ends to act what in it selfe is good and righteous c. Defender This may goe for a truth but not for an Answer The Letter would Justifie Toleration of Religion from the judgement and speeches of three Kings I Answered that was no Argument for I could bring him Kings more in number and greater in the sight of God and man who judged it meet not to tolerate Hereticks nor turbulent Schismaticks To this the Discusser Answereth sometimes the Godly doe that which is evill and the wicked that which is good This I say is a Truth but doth not take away my Answer but by a Petitio Principij a begging of the Question That Kings alledged by him did that which was good but the Kings alledged by me though better persons did that which was evill CHAP. 61. A Reply to his Chap. 64. Discusser THe unknowing zeale of Constantine and other Emperors did more hurt to Christ Jesus his Church and Kingdome then the raging fury of the most bloudy Neroes In the persecution of those wicked Emperors Christians were sweet and fragrant like spice pounded in Morters But those good Emperors persecuting some erroneous persons and advancing the Professors of some truthes and maintaining their Religion by the materiall Sword by this meanes Christianity was eclipsed The Professors of it fell asleepe Cant. 5. Babel was usher'd in and by degrees the Churches of the Saints were turned into the Wildernesse of whole Nations Rev. 12.13 untill the whole world became Christian or Christendome Those good Emperors intending to exalt Christ but not attending to the command of Christ Jesus to permit the Tares to grow in the Field of the world they made the Garden of the Church and Field of the world all one c. Defender If the unknowing zeale of Constantine other Christian Emperors did more hurâ— to the Church then the raging fury of bloudy Neroes It was not because the raging fury of those Persecutors was more accepted of God then this unknowing zeale of the good Emperors For though the unknowing zeale of the one was finfull yet it was the friut of humane frialty Error Amoris But the rage of the others was divelish fury Amor Erroris Besides the unknowing zeale of the good Emperors lay not in punishing notorious Hereticall Seducers nor will the Discusser be ever able to shew that the Church of Christ suffered any hurt at all by that meanes The contrary is evident Constantius and Valens by Tolerating and favoring the Arians the whole world became Arian Ingemuit orbis Christianus et miratus est factum se esse Arianum
the Colledge that he might be trained up to knowledge for the help of his Country-men But no violent course taken with them at all to constraine them to the Faith or Profession of Christianity The time is hastning we hope when all the vials of Gods wrath will be poured out on the Antichristian State and then we looke for the fulnesse of the Gentiles to come in and with the Jewes multitudes of Pagans But till the seven plagues of the seven Angels be fulfilled wee cannot easily hope for the entrance of 〈◊〉 New multitudes of men into the Church according to the word of the Lord Rev. 15.8 No man that is no man out of the Temple no Pagan was able to enter into the Temple till the seven plagues of the seven Angels were fulfilled But to returne to our Discusser he speaketh at randome when he intimateth that we walke not by Rule but partially as if we permitted not the like liberty of worship to our Country-men nor to the French Dutch Spanish Persians Turkes Jewes which wee doe to the Indians For we Neither constraine them to worship God with us nor restraine them from worshipping God in their owne way Persians Turkes and Jewes come not amongst us those of other Nations of Europe when they doe come amongst us their manner of Worship is not taken notice of amongst us Our Country-men worship God with us for the most part if some of them come not to our Assemblies by reason of the distance of their dwellings from us they have Liberty of publick prayer and preaching of the word a-amongst themselves by such as themselves choose without disturbance Discusser The Answerer addeth a further Answer to Tertullian for whereas Tertullian had said that one mans Religion doth neither hurt nor profit another the Answerer saith it must be understood of private Worship or of Religion professed in private Otherwise a false Religion professed in publick by the Members of the Church or by such as have given their Names to Christ will be the ruine and Desolation of the Churches Rev. 2. Whereto I Answer 1. Those that are Members of the Church and those that have given their names to Christ are all one the distinction therefore is unsound Defender The Discusser must excuse me though I doe not take them for all one For men of yeares must give up their names to Christ before they can be received Members into the Church as is evident Isaiah 56.6 7. Therefore they are not all one the one precedeth the other Discusser I answer secondly that Tertullian doth not there speake of private but of publick worship and Religion Defender Tertullians speech may possibly be meant of either publick or private But as I said to make the speech true it must either be understood of private or if of publick profession of Religion it must be understood not of Christian but of Pagan and of Pagan during the time of Gods Patience and their ignorance But after God revealed the Truth of the Gospel-Religion to them it was not safe to continue a publick Profession of Pagan-Religion for after the White-Horse hath revealed the Gospel a Red and Black and pale-horse follow to avenge the rejection of it upon the Romane-Pagan-Empire Revel 6.2 to 8. Discusser I answer thirdly although it be true in a Church of Christ that a false Religion or Worship permitted will doe hurt according to those Threats of Christ Rev. 2. yet in two cases I beleive a false Religion will not hurt which is most like to have been Tertullians meaning 1. A false Religion out of the Church will not hurt the Church no more then weeds in the Wildernesse will hurt the inclosed Gardens nor poyson hurt the body when it is not touched or taken yea and Antidotes are received against it 2. A false Religion and worship will not hurt a Civill State in case the worshippers breake no civill Law And the Answerer elsewhere acknowledgeth that the civill Peace is not broken where the civill Lawes are not broken And this onely is the point in Question Defender If this onely be the point in Question where then lyeth the controversie for if I say as the Discusser saith I doe that the Civill Peace is not broken when the Civill Law is not broken and if a false Religion or worship doe not hurt the civill State unlesse the Worshippers breake some civill Law then where lyeth the pinch of the controversie But I would not have the Discusser mistake himselfe I doe not remember that I have any where said that the civill Peace is not broken where the civill Law is not broken He saith I say so elsewhere If he meane that I say so in the Modell drawn up by my Brethren the Elders of those Churches he wrongeth and polluteth himselfe much Crimine falsi when he saith that Mr. Cotton with the rest of the Ministers of New-England composed that Modell of Church and civill power It is no new thing with him to say I did that which I did not that Modell was drawen up by some other fellow-Brethren but not by me There is a Truth in the speech which they speak rightly understood but not as the Discusser here taketh it For first what if no civill Law be made for the establishment of Religion nor against the violation of the Fundamentalls of it this very defect of so needfull a Law may bring the wrath of God upon the civill State as did the defect of a King in Israel Judg. 21.25 Againe secondly there may be a Law made for the establishing of true Religion and it though it be violated yet the Discusser will say no civill Law is violated because no Law concerning the second Table is violated But that is his mistake to thinke the civill Lawes concerne onely the outward Estate of the People and not their Religion That is a civill Law whatsoever concerneth the good of the City and the propulsing of the contrary Now Religion is the best good of the City and therefore Lawes about Religion are truly called civill Lawes enacted by civill Authority about the best good of the City for the promoting and preserving of that good of the City But having thus spoken to his second case first wherein he saith a false Religion will not hurt a civill State I come now to his first which was that a false Religion will not hurt if it be out of the Church no more then weeds in the wildernesse will hurt the inclosed Garden But what if the Garden be inclosed in the midst of a wildernesse what if the weeds grow so neere the inclosure or hedge round about the Garden that they easily creep into the Garden what if every blast of wind blow the seeds of the weeds into the Garden which are ready to overspread the Garden and to choak the good herbes The Discusser will say they that keep and dresse the Garden should weed them out True so they ought to their best endeavour But
Scriptures and expressions of Truth alledged by them doe speake loudly and fully for them that where they are under the Hatches they should not be smothered but suffered to breath and walk upon the Decks in the aire of civill Liberty Defender Reply 1. When the Author of the Letter calleth that Popish Booke out of which he quoteth that Testimony a wicked Book why may not that Testimony be a wicked Testimony as by his owne Judgement the Booke a wicked Booke Reply 2 It is true which they say the meanes which Almighty God appointed for the conversion of Kingdomes was Humility Patience and Charity neither doe wee allow any meanes of rigour for Conversion of soules but onely the power of Spirituall Armour It is true also which they alledge out of Matth. 10.16 That Christ sent his Apostles as sheep into the midst of Wolves He did not send Wolves amongst sheep to kill imprison spoyle c. But this onely sheweth what the condition and Commission and worke of Ministers is when they are sent among Pagans and Persecutors But this is no prohibition to Ministers when they live in a Church of Christ to drive away Wolves from the Sheepfolds of Christ as knowing they come to kill and to destroy And drive them away they may not onely by Church-censures if they be of the Church Tit. 3.10 11. but also if they be out of the Church by miraculous vengeance in case they have such a gift as Paul had and used it against Elymas Acts 13.9 10 11. or by their Prayers though the Discusser deny it chap. 27. as Paul did against Alexander 2 Tim. 4.14 or by stirring up the civill power against them as Elijah did Ahab and the people against the Prophets of Baal 1 Kings 18.40 Reply 3. That which they alledge out of Matth. 10.7 they meane 17. is as farre wide from the purpose as the former It is true the Apostles ought not to deliver the People whom they are sent to convert unto Councels or Prisons or to make their Religion Felony or Treason But what is this to such as being converted to the Profession of the Faith doe Apostate from the Faith and seeke to subvert the Faith which they have professed Or what is this to such as doe seeke also to subvert the civill State to kill Kings or dethrone them and to dispose of their Kingdomes may not such Religion shall I say or Rebellion be made Felony or Treason But see here the partiality both of the Letter and of the Discusser if a Christian King set not up the Popish Religion but make Lawes for the establishment of the Truth this shall be condemned in him as Hereticall pravity himselfe prescribed dethroned killed and his Kingdome alienated to a stranger And this shall passe with Toleration But if a Prince shall make Lawes for the security of himselfe and his Kingdome and condemne such seditious and rebellious Attempts for Felony and Treason this shall be taxed as unchristian Persecution and contrary to the way of Christ and his Apostles Reply 4. It is true likewise what they quote out of verse 32. When ye enter into an House Christ had them salute it saying Peace be to the House he doth not say send Pursevants to ransack and spoile it For Christ sent not his Apostles with civill power nor doth he allow Princes to send Pursevants to ransack Houses that so they might convert the Housholders or sojourners therein But if Seducers to Idolatry be found there and Rebels and Conspirators against the civill State be found there though that Commission to the Apostles speake not to such case yet it is enough the Magistrates Commission from God Rom. 13.4 Armeth him to take vengeance on evill doers Reply 5. To John 10. verse 10 11. The Answer is as easie as to the former The Pastor giveth his Life for the sheep he cometh not to kill or to destroy the sheep But what if he see the Wolfe coming or what if he see the Thiefe coming both of them to steale and kill and to destroy Shall the Pastor now sit still and not hazard his life in their defence contrary to verse 11 12 13 Or shall he betake himselfe onely to spirituall censures when it may be they are not capable of such stroakes Or shall it be an hainous and unchristian carriage in him to seeke ayde against such Thieves and Wolves from them who should see that the sheep of Christ may lead a quiet and peaceable Life in all Godlinesse and Honesty 1 Tim. 2.1 2. The Apostles themselves and the Churches planted by them they doe not so much as desire it of God from their Magistrates that they may live a quiet and peaceable life in a way of ungodlinesse no more then a way of dishonesty So Paul himselfe professeth Acts 25.8.11 But in a way of Godlinesse and Honesty they desire of God they may find by the protection of their Magistrates a quiet and peaceable life in that Text of Timothy Thus to satisfie the Discussers mind and to prevent any pretence of exception I have runnâ— over the Scriptures and expressions of Truth alledged in the Popish Booke which he saith speake loudly and fully for their Toleration but how truly let the servants of God judge Discusser But Protestants herein shew themselves partiall and practise that themselves which they taxe in Papists For though they cry out of Persecution when themselves are under Hatches yet when they come to sit at Helme they runne the same course both in Doctrine and Practise When Mr. Cotton and others have formerly been under Hatches what sad and true complaints have they poured out against Persecution But coming to the Helme how doe they themselves both by Preaching Writing Printing practise unnaturally and partially expresse towards other the cruell Nature of such Lyons and Leopards as some of them have opened out of Cant. 4.8 Defender What we have opened out of Cant. 4.8 against Persecution when as he saith wee were under the Hatches amounted to this That it was lawfull for the sheep of Christ to follow Christ and and to come along with him and flye away from persecution Did any of us then teach that it was unlawfull for Magistrates to pursue with just revenge Apostate Seducers unto Idolatry Heresie or blasphemy or turbulent subverters of civill or Church-Order And since we are come hither where he is pleased to honour us with sitting at Helme which is farre from us what have we taught or practised more then our selves allowed in times of our owne restraint But men that can allow themselves a Liberty of calumny it may well become them to plead for a Liberty of impunity for all Religions We keep not a weight and a weight as he calumniateth a measure and a measure what we measure out to others wee should never thinke it hard measure to have the same returned to our selves in the like case Onely this measure we desire of all hands to be kept that
against the poore sheepe and Lambs of Christ If any be hardned by the just and faithfull severity of Magistrates in this case it is meerely accidentall from the extreme perversnesse of the deceitfull and corrupt heart of man not from any corruption found in such dealings of Magistrates Yea Experience speaketh the contrary not onely in the instance of the Donatists who were many of them reclaimed by the just severity of the civill Magistrate in Augustines time But also in our owne memory Let the Discusser speake his conscience whether Popery or Papists did more swarme and abound in Queen Elizabeths dayes then in the dayes of King James Discusser Antonius Pius the Emperour of Rome upon this occasion wrote to all the Governours of his Provinces to forbeare the Persecution of Christians because such dealing was so farre from converting Christians from their way that it rather begat in their mindes an opinion of their Cruelty Defender No marvell for first the Pagan Religion was not of God but palpable and grosse Idolatry But the Religion of Christians came downe from Heaven in the Gospel of Truth It is cruelty in a Magistrate and it will beget in the minds of indifferent men an opinion of his cruelty to murther Innocents and that indictâ cauâ—â when it will never be found guilty nor beget in equall minds an opinion of the cruelty of such as shall put to Death Murderers and obstinate destroyers of the life of Soules Secondly It is evident the persecuting Emperours and their Governours of Provinces under them attended not at all to the conviction of Christians nor did they indeavour to make it appeare that the Christians sinned against the Light of their owne consciences And therefore we marvell if it bred in the people a just opinion of the cruelty of Persecutors and of the Innocency of Christians 3. It is an untrue Intimation of the Discusser that Antonius forebad the persecution of Christians upon any such grounds as if he affected rather their conversion which harsh dealing might alienate them from or as if by reason of hard dealing with them it bred in the Christians an opinion of the cruelty of their Persecutors which he was desirous to avoyd Read both the Rescripts of Antonius Pius both to the men of Asia and to the Senate of Rome and he giveth other just Reasons of forbidding the persecution of them as in respect of their confidence on God in times of danger above Pagans and in respect of his Fathers favourable grant to them and cheifly in that by their Prayers they had saved his Army in great distresse in Germany and destroyed their Enemies But he was so farre from seeking their conversion to his Paganisme by lenity towards them that he straitly chargeth his Officers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not to draw any such to Repentance and bondage Both his Rescripts are extant in the end of Justin Martyrs second Apologie for Christians CHAP. 41. A Reply to his Chap. 41. Discussing the Texts Isay 2.4 with Mica 4.3 Discusser THe next Scripture against Persecution is that of the Prophet Isaiah 2.4 together with Micah 4.3 They shall breake their Swords into Plowshares and their Speares into pruning hookes And Isa 11.9 There shall none hurt or destroy in all the Mountaine of my Holinesse Vnto which Mr. Cotton answereth 1. That these Predictions doe onely shew with what weapons Christ will subdue the Nations to the Faith of the Gospel 2. They shew also what the meeke and peaceable temper will be of all true Converts to Christianity not Lions nor Leopards nor cruell Oppressours nor Malignant opposers and biters one of another but doth not forbid them to drive ravenous wolves from the sheepfold nor to restraine them from devouring the sheep of Christ This first Answer is truely Christian but me thinks the Answerer might heare a voyce from Heaven out of thine owne mouth will I judge thee for that which he addeth is as evill and bitter as the former words were good and sweet But this doth not forbid them to drive ravenous wolves from the sheepfold and to restraine them from devouring the sheep of Christ But this fighteth against the former Truth to wit that Christ by spirituall weapons will subdue the Nations of the Earth to the obedience of the Gospel For by driving away these Wolves he intendeth not onely the Resistance or violence which the Shepheards of Christ ought spiritually to make but the civill Resistance of the materiall Swords staves Guns c. whence I argue that same power forceth the evill the Wolves out forceth the good the sheep in for of the same things is the like and same Reason c. Defender He should say for of contrary things is a contrary Reason for sheep and wolves are not the same things nor are force in and force out the same things But howsoever his Argument is of the like force as if he should reason a man may witha staffe or a Sword drive away dogs that might by the way bite or worrey his children in going to Schoole therefore a man may with astaffe or a Sword drive his children to goe to schoole for there is the same Reason of both But doth he speak in good earnest that there is the same Reason of both Are Wolves to be driven away and sheep brought into the fold by the same Instruments Yes saith he the same arme that with a staffe beateth off the Wolfe with a rod and hooke bringeth in the sheep the same Dogg that assaulteth and teareth a Wolfe frighteth and forceth in the stragling sheep But the Dog that is taught to assault and teare the Wolfe if he assault and teare the sheep also will finde a halter for his labour And though the same Arme may with a staffe beate a Wolfe yet it will not with the same staffe beat a sheep The same Shepheards staffe that knocketh downe a Wolfe on the head hooketh in the sheep gently by the legg The same voyce from Heaven that calleth the sheep by Name into the sheep-fold and leadeth them by still waters the same voyce hath said that Antichristian Wolves and Seducers shall drink of bloud for they are worthy Revel 16.6 CHAP. 42. A Reply to his Chap. 42. Defender IN this Chapter the Discusser maketh himselfe worke to discourse upon the Wolves which Paul foretold to the Elders of Ephesus should come in amongst them not sparing the flock Acts 20.29 A place which I quoted not nor did apply to the cause in hand But he as a full vessell abounding and running over in wit and words and it seemeth in leasure he propoundeth and discusseth three Questions about these Wolves in this Chapter and two more in the next Discusser As 1. What Wolves were those Paul warneth of not literally meant nor Persecutors of the Flock such as the Romane Emperours But such as brought in other Religions and Worships such as amongst themselves should speake perverse things as many Antichrists did And I