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A20303 A sparing restraint, of many lauishe vntruthes, which M. Doctor Harding do the chalenge, in the first article of my Lorde of Sarisburies replie. By Edward Dering student in Diuinitie. With an answere vnto that long, and vncourteous epistle, entituled to M. Juel, and set before M. Hardings Reioinder Dering, Edward, 1540?-1576. 1568 (1568) STC 6725; ESTC S108150 240,683 364

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vntruthes It is knowen how vncourteously those reuerend Fathers were entreated their sayings coulde not be heard for the others shamelesse ●issings This commendation of Maister Hardings catholike Doctours is out of season Their learning bicause it is Gods gift I do reuerence their vsage I detest and abhor The rumours of some of their doings are yet hot in Cambridge If I would make base notes in the mergin as Maister Hardings companions do vse where they doe speake slaunderously I could say the truth and make ● Christian mans eares to glowe at their filthynes But God amend them and let the report of their euill be buried with their euill Hardyng ¶ What if God so dispose that nowe also the hart of the Prince detesting the lewdnesse of their liues who professe your Gospell and seing the vntruth of your doctrine and lamenting this vniuersall decay of vertue proceding thereof and the vtter damnation of so many soules be wholy bent to restore the Catholique Religion of the Church and abandon all these wicked new deuises of Geneua What will you then do Dering Now after that Master Harding hath enquired much after Maister Iuells inconstancy and can espy little worthy reprehension in an vncharitable imagination he will néedes gesse what Maister Iuell would doe if he were againe put to his triall And héere with a sighing supposition he doeth féede his Popish veine and asketh What if God so dispose the hart of the Princes c. To this I aunswer that if God should so do his iust iudgement should be vpon the sinnes as well of the Prince as of the people For it is his mercy that we be not consumed But what if God will not so deale with his enheritance What if he wyll not shew his people such heauie things What if the king of Ashur shal ouercome vs no more What if we shall no more be led captiues into Babilon What if the téeth of the wicked are broken What if destructions be come to a perpetuall end Surely if our iniquities doe not turne awaye Gods blessings the hope of the vngodlye is like a thinne fome that is caried awaye with the streame As touching our Princesse hir hart is in the hande of the Lord and though we be no men pleasers yet this is the contentation of our conscience that we sée in hir the expresse tokens of the childe of God and we are witnesses vnto our selues how willinglye we obey hir Dauid was a good king though he would builde God an house thoughe it liked him not that the tabernacle shoulde be couered with Goates heare Ionathas was a good king very zealous though the high places were not taken away Ezechias was a very godly king though when God left him to trie him to knowe all that was in hys hart he found him faultie Iosias was a vertuous yong Prince as euer was in Ierusalem yet he was a feard of Necho king of Egipt Deborah was a good Quéene and is not blamed in the scriptures yet no doubt she was not with out fault and what if our Quéene that hath restored Gods religion should doe something that liked Maister Harding Doth he therfore thinke she will peruert the wayes of the Lorde and set vp againe his Romish Idolatries Their prophecies are now expired and that olde rotten Epistle before the confutation of the Apology is now forgotten From what stomaks such flatteries proceded it is not hard to iudge But peace be vpon Quéene Elizabeth and vpon the Israel of the Lorde For this great decay of vertue wherof Maister Harding complayneth it is not in the worde of God it is our corrupte manners This is an olde obiection made against true Religion S. Paul doth complaine of it that for this cause Gods name was euill spoken of among the gentiles So y e wicked Iewes would complaine Since we left to burne incence to the Quene of heauen we haue ben consumed with the sworde and with famine Yet the leauing off of their Idolatry was no cause of their euills Harding ¶ You did once confesse to mee plainly in Sarisbury when ye came thither in visitation that you neuer lyked the Supremacie of the temporal Princes ouer the Churche of England Did you not tell mee that it stode neither with Scripture nor with Doctours nor with the iudgment of the learned men of Germany Geneua and the parties where you had ben And why then preach you not this Doctrine abroade Dering As touching this priuate talke of Maister Iuell had with Maister Harding at Sarisbury concerning the Quéenes supremacie it is a malicious lye of Maister Hardings vncharitable hart If it were true yet I might well aunswere with the Philosophers that there are .iiii. sorts in whome is singular impudence in a woman that putteth on a mans garment in a gheast that thinketh him selfe as good as his hoste in him that will be talking of Princes wher he hath no occasion 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in him that when a thing is tolde him in secrete doth tel it abroad openly Now if this accusation were true yet what witnesse hath Maister Harding to crye out of his impudency But what if it be false What if it be a shamelesse lye A christian man will saye with weeping eyes God amende the euill speakers But Demosthenes sayd to the people of Athens If you sée a Uiper or a byting Spider though they did neuer sting you yet you will kill them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Lyke wyse O ye men of Athens when you sée a slaunderer hauing this vipers nature tary not till he sting you but kill him as sone as you se him If this accusation were true the very Gentiles could not abide it if it be false they thinke M. Harding not woorthy lyfe And that it is false his own words are a sufficient witnesse which say he spake after the opinion of the learned men in Germany and other where who do all graunt that their is no authority in the earth next vnder God aboue the authority of a Prince and that in all causes and estates ecclesiasticall and temporall euen as S. Peter sayth Submit your selues vnto all ordinaūce of man whether it be vnto the King as vnto the chiefe or vnto gouernours as vnto them that he sendeth This supremacy which S. Peter graūteth vnto the king the papist wil in no wise acknowledge but will haue the prowde Pope to treade vppon the Emperours neck and Princes to holde his stirrop while he goeth to horsbacke and waite bare foote at his gates to abide his papall pleasure Good Lord how was that worlde droonken with superstition We giue our Princesse hir authority we submit our selues to hir gouernmēt she is the anoynted of the Lord and chosen chiefe ruler of his church of Englande and God graunt hir many yeares to reigne till the fretting enuy be confounded in all flattering stomackes That euer Maister Iuell denied hir supremacy
first how vnwares he speaketh contrarie to him selfe He confesseth flatly that this negatiue of S. Gregorie wherin he denieth any ought to be vniuersall Bishop is in defence of the truth Yet Maister Harding in the fourth article goeth about to proue that the pope is vniuersal B. so by his own confession he goeth about to proue a lye Secondarely he confesseth at the last that Maister Cranmar was a Byshop and Maister Iuell with other his felowes are Bishops yet at other times he and his fellowes wil in no case graunt it Thirdly he saith no B. of Sarisburie was a Caluinist before Maister Iuell and that is a manifest lye Fourthly that no Byshop of Canterbury was maried before Cranmar and that is an otherlie So in al this former péece either he speaketh nothing but lyes or if it be true it is such truth as by open writing he hath impugned But Maister Harding bicause he can not deny this contrarietie he will bid vs proue the other that any B. of Sarisbury hath bene of one religion with Caluin or that any B. of Cant. hath bene maried In déede this is the ground of their whole religion bold asseuerations without any manner warrant and then they bid vs proue the contrary But although this vnequall dealing be not good and he that teacheth anye thing shoulde proue the same to be true yet I am content for truthes sake to reproue in fewe woordes these negatiues of Maister Hardings First this forbidding mariage was vniuersally established by Pope Siluester the seconde who was made Pope by the meanes and woorking of the deuil as their own writers confesse in the yeare of our Lord 980. Yet I graunt through the folly of vnlearned bishops about .400 yeares after Christ matrimonie in the cleargy began to be misliked especially in the West church For in the East church they made no account of it yea they thought it was no hinderaunce to the minister for perfourmance of his dutie in Gods church But as I haue said the West church in many places forbad it And S. Ierom although in many places he speake reuerently and well of it yet in some places vpon his owne priuate affection he misliketh it But as touching this purpose more then thre hundred yeares after Christ Priestes mariage was thought verie lawfull But the English men receiued the faith of Christ in the latter time of Nero as Gildas witnesseth an olde writer and a Britan who liued in the yeare of our Lord .580 and will Maister Harding say that the thing being lawfull yet in .300 yeare togither there was neuer a Byshop maried And let Mayster Harding héere make no exception either that in those dayes ther was no Byshops of Canterbury or Sarisbury or that Gildas auctority is not good Theodoretus saith that S. Paule him selfe preached héere in his latter time Nicephorus and other moe say they receiued the fayth in the yere of our Lord 63. by Ioseph of Arimathia After this supersticion began againe to bréede then an .179 many preachers were sent for to call them againe to their former profession Whervpō Tertullian speaking of this age saith Britānorum inaccessa Romanis loca Christo fuerin● subdita And Petrus Cluniacensis speaking of the Scots calleth them christianos antiquiores the most auncient christian men And the story is knowen how Lucius then King of England was very diligent in setting out the Gospell Thus it appeareth the true faith hath bene in Englande almost euer since our sauiour Christ died Now y t in those daies ther wer bishops in Englād it is likewise manifest When Eleutherius the Pope 177. sent preachers into England they found here .3 called archiflamines and .25 called flamines which he turned in to thrée archbishops .25 byshops Thus much then is clere that in England were Christian bishops and they might mary Now to proue that they were maried it is plaine by Gildas in the latter ende of his booke where he reproueth the Bishops their wiues and their children So this lying negatiue of M. Harding is reproued that sayth no Bishop was euer maried in England before Bishop Cranmer For the other negatiue that there was neuer B. of Sarisburie of that religion which Caluine taught it appeareth by M. Iuels Replie which sheweth that not onely in England but in all Christendome that religion was in the chiefest articles professed And yet bicause it is here brought with the suretie of M. Hardings warrant we wyll speake a little of this negatiue It is boldlye auouched of manye popish Priestes that Christianitie was placed here by Augustine which is called the Englishe Bishop He was sent from Rome and landed in the Ile of Tenet in Kent an 596. But it is alredy shewed that we had the faith of Christ long before Then what did Augustine here I will tell thée Christian Reader and I wyll tell thée that which M. Harding shall nener be able to confute He did first perswade the King and Quéene not to enforce his new religion but to leaue it fréely to men to follow if they would Afterward being made Bishop of Canterburie by consent of a Synode he thrust into that Church altars vestiments images Masses challices crosses candlesticks ▪ sensers banners processions holy water holy bread funerals tithes and such other stuffe whych before that time was neuer séene in England Then he changed their kéeping of Easter day taught them manye ceremonies in Baptisme and when he coulde not bring all men to his diet he moued great persecution against such as defended the libertie of the Church Then he receiued from Rome relickes of diuers Saintes buylt a Monasterie to Saint Peter wrought many fained miracles and so at the last he died about the yeare of our Lord .610 Now for further proofe of this that Augustine marred and not made our religion it is verye probable that we neuer receiued our faith from Rome but from the East Church First bicause we vntill Augustine came among vs kept our Easter after the manner of the Gréeke Church Now it is well knowen what mortall hatred there was for that matter so that he which was enstructed of the one would in no wyse vse the order of the other Agayne when Augustine should be sent vnto them he came backe for feare and the Britaines would not receaue him nor acknowledge anye authoritie of Pope Gregorie ouer them Which sure they would neuer haue done if they had receaued theyr fayth from Rome Thus much then followeth we had the faith of the Gréeke Church without all superstitious ceremonies of the Church of Rome and so it is manifest our bishops were then of Maister Caluines profession in the whole substaunce of their religion And so is this other negatiue of M. Harding prooued a lye This I haue sayd the more at large bicause M. Hardyng and his fellowes woulde haue vs beleue that our faith came from the Pope and Dan Augustine