Selected quad for the lemma: religion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
religion_n	king_n	majesty_n	subject_n	3,135	5	6.4839	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A76258	Certamen religiosum or, a conference between His late Majestie Charles King of England, and Henry late Marquess and Earl of Worcester, concerning religion; at His Majesties being at Raglan Castle, 1646. Wherein the maine differences (now in controversie) between the Papists and the Protestants is no lesse briefly then accuratly discusss'd and bandied. Now published for the worlds satisfaction of His Majesties constant affection to the Protestant religion. By Tho: Baylie Doctor in Divinity and Sub-Deane of Wels.	Bayly, Thomas, d. 1657?; Charles I, King of England, 1600-1649.; Worcester, Henry Somerset, Marquis of, 1577-1646.	1649 (1649)	Wing B1506; Thomason E1355_1; ESTC R209153	85,962	251

Certamen Religiosum OR A CONFERENCE Between His late Majestie CHARLES KING of England and HENRY late Marquess and Earl of Worcester concerning Religion at His Majesties being at Raglan Castle 1646. Wherein the maine differences now in Controversie between the Papists and the Protestants is no lesse briefly then accuratly discuss'd and bandied Now published for the worlds satisfaction of His Majesties constant affection to the Protestant Religion By THO BAYLIE Doctor in Divinity and Sub-Deane of Wels. Mutare vel timere sperno Printed by H. Hils in S. Thomas's Southwark and are to be sold by George Whittington at the Signe of the Blew-Anchor in Cornhill near the Royall Exchange 1649. The EPISTLE to the READER NEver was there a greater conflict within my breast then concerning the publishing of this controversie in Religion between His late Majestie and the late Marquesse of Worcester If I did not publish it I thought I bereaved the late King of the praises which were due unto Him relating to His constancy in Religion If I did I thought that in regard His late Majesties immergencies drew him away from Raglan so that he could not possibly stay to answer the last paper I should be unmannerly to set out a book that should present a subject giving his Soveraigne the last word whilst homage controverted with Majesty Neither did I think it loyalty to seem so much to make a Crown the Anvile whereon so many arguments should be wrought by a contrary hand wherefore I once intended to have left out the Marquesses last paper and to have ended with His Majesties this warinesse of seeming to present a King worsted any way had almost perswaded me to be no lesse injurious to the Reader then to truth her self and partiall in my undertaking But when I considered how that the greater the temptation the stronger the resistance and how thar it would declare to the world His late Majesties well groundednesse in His Religion as not to be shaken with the strongest winds and when I considered how that Charls King of England was the first man in the World who was not believed cordially to have been of that Religion which at His death he made so solemn profession to have lived and dyed in And when I considered the many scandals and obloquies cast upon Him in that particular both by writings and rumours of the People both before and after His death and called upon by divers to whom I had upon occasions given communicated these particulars recited in the Controversie I could doe no lesse then in the vindication of the dead King and to testifie so much of truth as lay in me pin these papers upon his Hearse whereby you may read Him otherwise then according to the impression which those false papers had received and their publications had spread abroad and how in this discourse and controversie the late King shewed himself not only able constant and resolute in His Religion but as the case then stood with Him resisted a very strong temptation for at that time the King was low and wanted help poor and wanted money and no man in the Kingdome was then likelyer to help to both then he who to the utmost of his power never denyed Him either and would at this time willingly have parted with all if His Majesty could have been guilty but of so much dissimulation a thing by some thought necessary in Princes as not to have left the Marquesse alltogether in dispaire of ever accomplishing his design upon Him but such was His Majesties constancy in Religion as to exchange freedoms with him His Majesty rather chusing that His necessity should not ask his Lordship any thing then that any hope which His Majesty should give his Lordship should in the least oblige his Lordships expectation to a lapse but slided off the temptation with such a regardlesse taking notice of it as if monies could have been rais'd out of the name of King and contribution could be had out of the Kings flesh as if like the great Pompey who being asked by his friends in his great distresse what he would doe for men made answer that he would but stamp with his foot upon the ground and men should rise out of the earth Plut in vit Pomp. as if he meant through impossibilities to cut out plain himself away to a relief that was beyond all hope but that which trusted to a reserve that should drop down from Heaven rather then to follow a plain and chalk'd out way guided by all the necessaries requisite for such a journey which tended not to the end that was agreeable to His former professions Thus whilst the King was upon the refusing posture in Raglan Castle to maintain His constancy false friends in other Garisons were upon the taking hand to betray their trust thus the helmet of salvation which only preserves the head is not a sufficient panoply for a Christian warfare where the sheild of faith and the breast-plate of righteousnesse are both wanting in the members Reader I here present you with a conflict between the two greatest assertors between the four Seas of the Romane and the Protestant Religion I make no question but severall censures will passe upon the worke some will censure because they cannot otherwise chuse it is so naturall to them that they needs must they cannot help it these men are most to be excused yet their censures are least to be regarded Others really judicious and ingenuous will commend where they see cause yet not any must expect it at their hands without a But for then it is possible a work may be so perfect as to be above theit censures these are not to be blam'd Authors must be behoulding unto such for dealing so favourably as to confer some acts of grace on those who are wholly at their mercy But there are a sort of censurers who can root-and-branch a cause and give reasons for their unreasonableness who parhaps say there was no such thing as such a controversie this is none of the Kings stile it is unpossible the Marquesse of Worcester should be such aschelar As to the first I say there was such a controversie here I shew it what is become of his negative He will give a reason why there was not viz. It is none of the Kings stile to which I answer that it is well if my memory could recollect all the series of arguments as they were urg'd by His Majestie though I could not the very words whereof they were so directly composed And you must abate them some alowance in their excellency by reason of the tainture they must needs receive by running through so mean a quill and you must grant me this also that the late King was not altogether so good an orator as He was a pen-man and I write only what He spake I transcribe none of His writings For the Marquesse of Worcesters learning he that knew him well knew him to be

more then ordinarily vers'd in controversie especially for a man who was no professed Schollar and a noble-man besides you must imagine this to be a businesse of long deliberation on his part and that he was not without those helps that could and no question did assist him with all the force that was in argument If any shall say that the publisher of this controversie did ill to present the Church of Rome dressed in such specious apparences of truth to the startling of mens consciences I answer that if that Champion of the Philistians had not been discribed unto us according the full height of that stature he was of nor the discription of his armour according to the substance of his head-piece and the weight of his coat nor the formidablenesse of his weapon according to the vast dimension of his staffe nor the terribility of his speers head according to the many hundred shekels of Iron whereof it was made we should wonder why the soul of Jonathan should be so knit unto the soul of David why Saul should honour him so much and the people so much admire him and the women praise him so many degrees beyond Saul but as the posture of the Gyant hightened the admiration of David so the force of those arguments was but an improvement of the Kings conquest over the temptation They did ill who fomented jealousies in the hearts of the People upon this score viz. that the late King was a Papist in his heart and that he intended to bring in popery whereby he so lost the hearts of his people upon that false ground that all the veines-akings of so many thousand hearts to one could not recover him whom they had lost with a meer frolick nor a more plentifulnesse of tears then had been shed for all the Princes since the Conquest could recall him The Author did not this to startle mens consciences but to prick the consciences of those who were the Authors of this Wherefore I shal desire this onely favour at your hand that you will believe me that it was neither that Insanabile scribendi Cacoethes nor ostentatio eruditionis nor the effascination of any popular applause nor any intention to boulster up any cause or faction that invited me to this publication but meerly because I would not have the wind to get into your ears that blows from so could a quarter where charity is so frozen that she wants life to believe so favourably of the dead as truth requires and so doing you have done him right who hath done you service Thomas Bayly Certamen Religiosum OR A CONFERANCE BETWEEN The late King of England and the late Lord Marquesse of Worcester concerning Religion at His Majesties being at Ragland-Castle 1646. IT is not to be imagined otherwise but that every man who pretends unto Religion makes the same Reli … … ich he professeth 〈…〉 Jacobs Ladder or his fiery 〈…〉 ascend to heaven Neither is 〈…〉 supposed but that the same man 〈◊〉 ●…hought any other Religion better 〈◊〉 his own or his own not the only way to heaven would forsake that Religion which he had formerly imbraced and matriculate himself a member of that Church whose purer hands were likeliest to give him the truest blessing Wherefore burning zeal is not to be blamed though the fire be misplac'd if it operate according to its own nature which is to congregate homogeneall beings and make them love to sit by the same fire Thus affected was that Noble and indeed in his way heavenly disposed Henry late Marquesse of Worcester to play the greatest prize that ever was played between any two that ever entred within those lists Three Diadems were to encounter with the Tripple Crowne and the Tripple Crown with three Scepters opportunity that lucky gamster that hardly loses a game in twenty was on the Marquesses side time and place directed him how to take points in his own Tables the King at that time being in the Marquess own house at Ragland and necessitated to borrow money to buy bread after so great a losse at Nazeby the King being thus put to play the after game with the old Marquesse was a little mistrustful that he had not plaid the fore game with him so well as that he had not thereby prejudic'd the latter for though the Marquesse and his son were the two ablest and most forward'st shoulderers up of the declining Throne especially the chip of the old block whose disposition expressed it self most Noble in not caring who had lov'd the King so that he might be but permitted to love Alexander whom he affected not only with the loyall respects of a subject towards his Soveraigne but also with such passionate wayes of expressions and laboriousnesse in all good offices as are wont to be predominant in those in whom simpathy is the the only ground of their affections yet there were not wanting some kind of men who made the aversnesse of this Noble-mans Religion an occasion of improving their own envies which though it could never lose him the least ground in his Masters good opinion of him who never would judge no more a Saint by his face then a Devil by his feet but both according to their severall ingagements yet there were some things which happened as having relation to this family which were not altogether pleasing however though His Majesty came thither usher'd by necessity yet he came neither unwelcomed nor uninvited and entertained as if he had been more King by reason of some late atchivements rather then otherwise and though money came from him like drops of bloud yet he was contented that every drop within his body should be let out at His command so that he might performe so meritorious a piece of worke as he thought the being an instrument of bringing the Father of of his Country to be the Son of his Church would be unto his souls health The Marquesse having these resolutions within himselfe thought to give them breath at the same time that His Majestie should make his motion for a further supply of money which he daily and hourly expected but was deceived in his expectations for the relation already having reach'd the Kings ear how an accident had made me no less fortunate to his Lordship then in being the meanes of preserving his Lordships person and no inconsiderable fortune then in the same venture with him and how that I preserved both the one and the other in concealing both for the space that the Moon useth to be twice in riding of her circuit the particulars hereof here to insert would tend rather to much arrogance then any purpose wherefore I further forbear untill such time as the trust that providence had reposed in me was crowned by the same hand with such successe as brought the Marquesse safe to his own house in peace which I had no sooner brought to passe hut the Marquess drew from me a solemn ingagement never to leave him so

come to the Councel board it would have been said that I took no other Councel but what was conveighed unto me by Jesuites by his Lordships meanes and I pray tell him that that was the true cause I told His Majestie that I would and that I thought it an easie matter to cause him to believe no less but withall I intimated to His Majestie that I knew the Marquess had an earnest desire to have some private Conference with His Majestie this night Which if granted it might conduce very much to His Majesties behoof The King said how can that be I told His Majestie that my Lord had contrived it before his comming to the Castle and told His Majestie of the privacie of the convieghance and that therefore his Lordship had appointed that for his Bed-chamber and not in the great Tower which was the roome he most esteemed of in all the Castle Hereat His Majestie smil'd and said I know my Lords drift well enough either he meanes to chide me or else to convert me to his Religion Whereupon I told His Majestie I doubted not but that His Majestie was temptation proof as well as he was correction-free and that he might returne the same man he went having made a profitable Exchange of gold and silver for words and sleepe at which the King suddenly replyed I never received any of the Marquess gold but it was all weight and I would have my words to be so with him which cannot be because I have no time to weigh the matter much less the words that I shall speak concerning it I must expect to find my Lord very well prepared and all the force that is in argument against me Had I been a ware of it or could stay I would have taken some days labour to have been as hard for my Lord as I could and not to have given him such an extemporarie meeting as both of us must be faine to steale from sleep Sir said I I am imployed by you both and I must do Your Majesties service as I may This way I can otherwise I know not I do not think his Lordship expects disputation but audience what he hath to say I know not neither did I know that he had any such intention untill the time that I mov'd his Lordship in Your Majesties behalf Well said the King my Lords desires are granted and if he have any such intention I hope to let him know that I will not be of a Religion that I am not able to defend against any man and let me heare from you concerning the time and place So I departed his presence giving this pleasing account unto the Marquess who transported with joy commanded me to hast unto the King and tell him that at eleven of the clocke that night he would not faile to attend His Majestie in such a place whether he had given me direction to light His Majestie which place of meeting was known by the name of my Lord Privy-seales Chamber who was father to this Marquess and died in it wherefore this Marquess would never suffer any man to lie in it afterwards or scarce any body so much as to come into it which was the reason why this Chamber at this time was so conveniently empty when all the roomes in the Castle were more then full And withall his Lordship instructed me to attend near upon the time in the withdrawing room which was next unto his Lordships Bed-chamber and to clear the Parlour and the withdrawing room if any Companie should chance to sit up so long which was usuall at that time through both which rooms my Lord of Worcester was to passe unto the place appointed where when I had once brought him I should leave him and wait for the Kings comming forth giving me the Key of his Bed-chamber wherewith he used alwayes to locke himself in and never to his last would suffer any man to lie in the same Chamber with him which happened well for the private managerie of the businesse And that in the interim he would lie down upon the bed and see if he could take a nap I promised his Lordship that I would be punctuall in my endeavours onely I made this Objection unto his Lordship that it might be that it might prove more then I could performe at such a precise time as we were necessitated unto if they should be either unwilling or think it strange to be hurried away all upon a suddaine and besides so doing would draw suspition with it that may set watch-men over the event of our affaires whereat the Marquess hastily made answer I will tell you what you shall do so that you shall not need to fear any such thing go unto the Yeomen of the Wine-seller and bid him leave the Keyes of the Wine-seller with you and all that you find in your way invite them down into the seller and shew them the Keyes and I warrant you you shall sweep the room of them if their were a hundred And when you have done leave them there I thought that Objection sufficiently salved so took my leave disposing my self to a removeall of all the blocks that might be cast in our way I found not any The time drawing near that the Dominicall Letter was to dispute with the golden Number I opened the Marquesses door so softly fearing to wake the two young Gentlemen which waited upon my Lord and were in bed and a sleep in the next roome through which we were to passe and were resolved to put it to a venture whether we could do so or no but we past and repast without any their taking the least notice of us that the Marquess himself did not hear me when I came to him I found him a sleep whom I so wakened by degrees that he would needs perswade me that he had not slept at all Yet telling him how the time was come wherein he was to meet the King in a mazement and a kind of horrour he asked me what time and what King at first I thought it so strange to him because he was as yet but a stranger to himself as not being throughly awaked but when I saw his fears begin to increase by how much the more he came to himself and to lay stronger and stronger hold upon him expressing a great deal of unwillingnesse to that which he formerly so much desired and with such a kind of reluctancy as might very well spread an appearance of some remorse I my self began to be a fraid of being made an instrument in a designe that carried with it such a conflict within the bosome of the actor untill my second thoughts banished my first apprehension and seconded my confidence of his Lordships innocence being confirmed by this following expression of his God blesse us all what if we should be discovered what construction would they make of our doings what advantage would they be ready to take of such constructions what if this harmlesse and innocent

I would faine see it and as faine confide in that of which I had reason to be confident Marq. Take Gidions three hundred men and let the rest begon King Your Lordship speaks mistically will it please you to be plaine a little Marq. Come I see I must come nearer to you Sir It is thus God expected a worke to be done by your hands but you have not answered his expectation nor his mercy towards you when your Enemies had more Cities and Garisons then you had private families to take your part when they had more Cannon then you had Muskets when the people crowded to heap treasures agaidst you whilst your Majesties friends were faine here and there to make a gathering for You when they had Navies at Sea whilst Your Majesty had not so much as a Boat upon the River whilst the odds in number against you was like a full crop against a gleaning then God wrought his miracle in making Your gleaning bigger then their vintage he put the power into your hand and made You able to declare Your self a true man to God and gratefull to Your friends but like the man whom the Prophet makes mention of who bestowed great cost and paines upon his vineyard and at last it brought forth nothing but wilde grapes so when God had done all these things for You and expected that You should have given his Church some respit to their oppressions I heard say You made vowes that if God blest You but that day with * Nazeby Fight Victory you would not leave a Catholike in Your Army for which I fear the Lord is so angry with You that I am afraid he will not give you another day wherein you may so much as trie your fortune Your Majesty had forgot the monies which came unto you from unknown hands and were brought unto you by unknown faces when yau promised you would never forsake your unknown friends you have forgotten the miracalous blessings of the Almighty upon those beginnings and how have you discountenanc'd distrusted dis-regarded I and disgraced the Catholiques all along and at last vowed an extirpation of them Doth not your Majesty see clearly how that in the two great Battailes the North and Nazeby God shewed signes of his displeasure when in the first your Enemies were even at your mercy confusion fell upon you and you lost the day like a man that should so wound his Enemies that he could scarce stand and afterwards his own sword should fly out of the hilt and leave the strong and skilfull to the mercy of his falling enemies and in the second and I fear me the last Battaile that e're you 'le fight whilst your men were crying victory as I hear they had reason so to do your sword broke in the aire which made you a fugitive to your flying enemies Sir I pray pardon my boldnesse for it is Gods cause that makes me so bold and no inclination of my own to be so and give me leave to tell you that God is angry with you and will never be pleased untill you have taken new resolutions concerning your Religion which I pray God direct you or else you 'le fall from nought to worse from thence to nothing King My Lord I cannot so much blame as pitty your zeal the soundnesse of Religion is not to be tried by dint of sword nor must we judge of her truthes by the prosperity of events for then of all men Christians would be most miserable we are not to be thought no followers of Christ by observations drawne from what is crosse or otherwise but by taking up our crosse and following Christ neither do I remember my Lord that I made any such vow before the Battaile of Nazeby concerning Catholiques but some satisfaction I did give my Protestant Subjects who on the other side were perswaded that God blest us the worse for having so many Papists in our Army Marq. The difference is not great I pray God forgive you who have most reason to aske it King I think not so my Lord. Narq Who shall be judge King I pray my Lord let us sit down and let reason take her seat Marq. Reason is no judge King But she may take her place Marq. Not above our Faith King But in our arguments Marq. I beseech your Majesty to give me a reason why you are so much offended with our Church King Truly my Lord I am much offended with your Church if you meane the Church of Rome if it were for no other reason but this for that she hath foisted into her legend so many ridiculous stories as are able to make as much as in them lies Christianitie it self a fable whereas if they had not done this wrong unto the tradition of the primative Church we then had left unto us such rare and unquestionable verities as would have adorned and not dawb'd the Gospel whereas now we know not what is true or false Marq. Sir if it be allowed to question what the Catholick Church holds out for truth because that which they hold forth unto us seemes ridiculous and to picke and chuse verities according to our own fancie and reject as novelties and forgeries what we please as impossibilities and fabulous The Scriptures themselves may as well suffer by this kind of tolleration for what more ridiculous then the Dialoge between Balaam and his Ass or that Sampsons strenght should be in his hair or that he should slay a thousand men with the Jaw-bone of an Ass The Disputation betweeen Saint Michael and the Devil about the body of Moses Philip's being taken up in the air and found at Aroties with a thousand the like strange and to our apprehension if we look upon them with carnall eyes vaine and ridiculous but being they are recorded in Scripture which Scripture we hold for truth we admire but never question them so the fault may not be in the tradition of the Church but in the libertie which men assume to themselves to question the tradition And I beseech Your Majestie to consider the streakes that are drawne over the Divine writ as so many delenda's by such bold hands as those the Testaments were not like the two Tables delivered into the hands of any Moses by the immediate hand of God neither by the Ministration of Angels but men inspired with the holy Ghost writ whose writings by the Church were approved to be by inspiration which inspirations were called Scripture which Scriptures most of them as they are now received into our hands were not received into the Cannon of the Church all within three hundred years after Christ why may not some bold spirits call all those scriptures which were afterwards acknowledged to be Scripture were not before forgeries Nay have not some such as blind as bold done it already Saint Hier was the first that ever pickt a hole in the Scriptures and cut out so many books out of the word of God with the

look beyond Rome or the Doctrine that Rome practised then when they converted England nor for a Protestant because he is as far distant from the Grecian Church in matter of opinion as from the Romane and therefore he need not look for that which he hath no desire to find besides the Greek Church hath long ago submitted to the Church of Rome and there is no reason that others should make Arguments for her who are not of her when she stands in no competition her self besides there is not in any place where ever the Greek Church is or hath been planted where there are not Romane Catholicks but there are divers Countreys in Christendome where there is not one Professour of the Greek Church neither is there a place in all the Turks Dominions where there are not Romane Catholickes nor in any part of the world where there are not multitude of Romanes neither is there a Protestant Countrey in Christendome where there are not Roman Catholicks numberlesse but not a Protestant amongst the Natives neither of Spanie or Italy Shew me but one Protestant Countrey in the world who ever deserted the Romane Faith but they did it by Rebellion except England and there the King and the Bishops were the principall reformers I pray God they do not both suffer for it Shew me but one reformed Church that is of the opinion of an other ask an English Protestant where was your Religion before Luther and he will tell you of Hus and Jerom of Prag search for their Tenents and you shall find them as far different from the English Protestant as they are from one another run to the Waldensis for your Religions antiquity and you shall find as much difference in their Articles and ours as can be between Churches that are most opposite Come home to your own Countrey and derive your descent from Wickliffe and search for his Tenents in the book of Martyrs and you shall find them quite contrary to ours neither amongst any of your moderne Protestant shall you find any other agreement but in this one thing that they all protest against the Pope Shew me but any Protestant Countrey in the world where Reformation as you call it ever set her foot where she was not as well attended with sacriledge as usher'd by Rebellion and I shall lay my hand upon my mouth for ever King My Lord my Lord you are gone beyond the scope of your Argument which required you to prove the Romane Church more Catholick then the Greek which you have not done you put me off with my being English and not a Grecian whereas when we speak of the universality of a Church I think that any man who is belonging to the universe is objectum rationis And if that be the manner of your Election then I am sure most voices must carry it for your alleaged submission of the Greek Church unto the Roman I believe it cannot be prov'd but it may be the Patriarch of Constantinople may submit unto the Pope of Rome and yet the Greek Church may not submit unto the Romane Marq. Sir it is no dishonour for the Sun to make its progress from East to West it is still the same Sun and the difference is onely in the shadowes which are made to differ according to the varieties of shapes that the severall substances are of East and West are two divisions but the same day neither can they be said or imagined to be greater or more extending one or other and the one may have the benefit of the Suns light though the other may have its glory and I believe no man of sober judgement can say that any Church in the world is more generally spread over the face of the whole world or that her glory shines in any place more conspicuously then at this day in Rome King My Lord If externall glory be the Sun-shine of the Gospel then the Church is there indeed but if internall sanctity inward holyness be the Essences of a Church then we may be as much to seek for such a Church within the Wals of Rome as any where else Marq. Who shall be Judge of that I pray observe the Injustice and Errours that will arise if every man may be admitted to be his own judge you of the Church of England left your Mother the Church of Rome and Mother to all the Churches round about You forsook her and set up a new Church of your own Independent to her there comes a new generation and doth the like to you and a third generation that is likely to do the like to that and the Church falls and falls untill it falls to all the pieces of Independencie It is a hard case for a part to fall away from the whole and to be their own judges Why should not Kent fall away from England and be their own judges as well as England fall away from Christendome and be their own judges why should not a Parish in Kent fall away from the whole County and be their own judges why should not one Family fall away from the whole Parish and be their own judges why should not one man fall away in his opinion from that Family and be his own judge If you grant one you must grant all and I fear me in doing one you have done all So that every man dispiseth the Church whilst he is a Church to himself rayles against Popery and is the greatest Pope himself dispiseth the Fathers and will enthrone his own judgement above the wisdome of the ancient refuseth Expositours that he may have bis own sence and if he can start up but some new opinions he thinks himself as worthy a member of Christianity as if he were an Apostle to some new found land Now Sir though some do take the Church to be the Scriptures yet the Scriptures cannot be the Church because the Scriptures send us to the Church audi Ecclesiam dic Ecclesiae others take the Elect to be the Church yet this cannot be for we know not who are elect and who not that which must be the Church must be a visible an eminent societie of men to whose Authoritie in cases of appeale and matter of judgement we are to acquiesse and subscribe And I appeale to Your Royall heart whether there be a Church in the world to whom in these respects we ought to reverence and esteeme more then the Church of Rome and that the Church of Rome is externally glorious it doth not follow that therefore she is not internall holy for the Kings daughters clothing was of wrought gold as well as she was all glorious within and though she had never so many Divine graces within her yet she had honourable women without her as her attendants and for the question whether this inward glory is to be so much sought for within the gates of Rome is the question and not yet decided King My Lord I l'e deale as ingeniously with you

in Jul. orat 2. wax tapers in sign of joy for the certainty of their future resurrection The Church then had the picture of Christ and of his Saints both x Euseb de Vita Const out of Churches y Paulin Epist 12. Basil in Martyr Bar and in them and upon the very z Prudent in S. Cassian Altars not to adore them with God like worship but by them to reverence the Souldiers and Champions of Christ The faithfull then used the a Tert de coron milit sign of the cross in all their Conversations b Cyril Cont. J●l l 6. painted it on the portal of all the houses of the faithfull c Hier in Vit. Hil. gave their blessing to the people with their hand by the sign of the cross d Athan cont Idol imployed it to drive away evil spirits e Paul Ep 11. proposed in Jerusalem the very cross to be adored on good fryday Finally the Church held then f Tert de praescrip Iren. l. 3. c. 3. l. 4. c. 32. that to the Catholick Church onely belongs the keeping of the Apostolicall tradition the Authority of interpretation of Scripture and the decision of Controversies of faith and that out of the succession g Cypr de unit Eceles Conc Car 4. c. 1. of her communion of h Hier Cont Lucif Aug de util cred c. 8. her Doctrine i Cypr ad pub Ep 63. ad mag Ep 67. Hier. ad Tit c. 3. and her ministery there was neither Church nor Salvation Neither will I insist with you only upon the word then but before and before and before that even to the first age of all will I shew you our doctrine of the reall presence and holy Sacrifice of the Masse Invocation of Saints Veneration of Reliques and Images Confession and Priestly absolution Purgatory and prayer for the dead Traditions c. In the fift Age or hundred of years Saint Augustine was for the reall and corporall presence a Aug Conc 1. in Psall 33. In the fourth Age Saint Ambrose b Lib 4. de Sacra In the third Age S. Cyprian c 5. and l. de iis qui misteriis initiantur c. 9. c Serm de Coena Dom. prope init In the second Age or hundred of years S. Irenaeus d l. 4. c. 32. infin And in the first Age e Ep ad smirnum u● cit a Theod Dial 3. S. Ignatius Martyr and disciple of St. John the Evangilist Concerning the honour and invocation of Saints In the fifth age we find S. Augustine f Serm. de Verb Apost prope init medit c. 40. li. de loquutionibus in gen prope finem praying to the Virgin Mary and other Saints In the fourth age we find Greg. Naz. praying to S. Basil the great g In Orat 20. quae est in laudem Basil mag And St. Hier Cont Vigil 13. initio In the third age we find S. Origin praying to Father Abraham h Initio sui lamenti In the second age Justin Martyr i Apol 2. ad Anton pium Imper non longe ab initio And in the first age in the Liturgy of S. James the lesse k Ange Med. For the use and veneration of holy Reliques and Images and chiefly of the Holy Cross In the fifth age Saint Augustine l Tract 118. in Joan fine In the fourth age Athanasius m Ad Antiochum principem In the third age Brigin n Hom 8. in diversos Evangelij locos In the second age S. Justin Martyr o Ad quaest 28. Gentilium And in the first age St. Ignatius p Epist ad Phil ante Med. Concerning Confession and Absolutions In the fifth age St. August q Hom 49. ante Med. In the fourth age S. Basil the great r Sui regulis brevior interr 288. In the third age St. Cypr. ſ Serm de lapsis In the second age Tertull. t l. de poenit c. 10. And in the first age St. Clement u Clement Ro Epist 1. Now concerning Purgatory and Prayer for the dead in the fifth age St. Augustin a De Civit. Dei li 26. c. 24. and also Ser. 41. de sanct prope init also Serm. 22. de Verb Apost In the foutrh age St. Ambrose b Ambr. in 1. Cor 3. S. Hier. in Com. in cap. 11. proverb In the third age St. Cypr. c Epist 5. ad Anton post med In the second age Tertull. d li de animae c. 58. de Corona milit c. 3. 4. And in the first age St. Clement l Clem Ro Ep 1. de S Petr prope fin Concerning Traditions in the fifth age St. Augustin f l. 4. de bapt Con. Dona●… c. 24. In the fourth age St. Basil g li de Sp Sancto c. 27. In the third age St. Epiphanius h Heref 61. In the second age St. Irenaeus i li 3. c. 4. And in the first age St. Dennis k Areopag c. 1. Eccles Hierar Now suppose that all these quotations be right The saving of a soul of your own soul of the soul of a King of the souls of so many Kingdomes and the gaining of that Kingdom for a reward which in Comparison of these earthly ones for which you so often fight somuch strive and labour so much for to obtaine your tetrarchate would be a gain for you to lose it so that you might but obtain that would be worth the search and when you have found them to be truly cited I dare trust your judgement that it will tell you that we have not changed our Countenance nor fled our Colours nor fallen away nor altered our Religion nor forsaken our first love nor denied our principles nor brought novelties into the Church but that we do antiquum obtinere whereby we should be forsaken of you for forsaking our selves but rather that we should winne you unto us by being still the same we were when we wonne you first unto us and were at the beginning And is it for the honour of the English Nation famous for the first Christian King and the first Christian Emperour to forsake her mother Church so renowned for antiquitie and to annex their Religion as a codicell to an appeale of a company of Protesters against a decree at Spira and to forsake so glorious a name as Catholick and to take a name upon them wherein they had neither right nor interest and then to take measure of the Scotish Discipline for the new fashion of their souls and to make to themselves posies of the weedings of that Garden into which Christ himself came down a Cant. 6. 1. upon which both the north and south-winds do blow b Cant. 4. 16. in which is a well of living waters and streams from Lebanon c Cant. 4 15. about which is an