Selected quad for the lemma: religion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
religion_n	king_n	majesty_n	subject_n	3,135	5	6.4839	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A15082	A replie to Iesuit Fishers answere to certain questions propou[n]ded by his most gratious Matie: King Iames By Francis White D: of Div· deane of Carlile, chaplaine to his Matie. Hereunto is annexed, a conference of the right: R:B: of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit*	White, Francis, 1564?-1638.; Laud, William, 1573-1645.; Baylie, Richard, b. 1585 or 6, attributed name.; Cockson, Thomas, engraver.; Fisher, John, 1569-1641.	1624 (1624)	STC 25382; ESTC S122241	841,497	706

Doctrine by Principles of Diuine Reuelation because Humane Testimonie is not sufficient to myse Articles of Faith And I rest assured that each intelligent person will obserue by reading this Worke that the Aduerfarie notwithstanding he is well verst in Controuersie and hath in substance said as much as his Cause will permit yet he is deficient of Diuine proofe in euery Article and farre more specious in eluding our Arguments than happie in confirming his owne But if it be certaine that Popish Faith wanteth the Suffrage of Diuine Testimonie then we haue sufficient cause to reiect their Doctrine And if wee could not demonstrate that the Articles which they maintaine against vs were contra verbum Dei contradictorie to the Word of God yet if by deficiencie of proofe on their side it appeare they be extra praeter without or besides the Word of God they cannot be the obiect of Diuine Faith Lastly I entreat all of our part to prayse God for the benefit of true Religion maintayned in our Church to auoid Contention among themselues for in all Ages the same hath proued pernicious and scandalous Also to be as deuout in the way of Pietie as Aduersaries seeme to be in the way of Superstition And because it hath euer beene an Honor to our Profession to be loyall and obedient to higher Powers let this be still an indelible Caracter of euery true Brittish Protestant to reioyce in the peaceable and happy Gouernment of his most sacred Maiestie let vs all so far as it is possible by our feruent votes and prayers striue to adde encrease to his dayes and happines Far be it from any of our part in their secret thoughts to misconster his actions or to entertaine the least iealousie of any abatement of his wonted loue to true Religion planted among vs for assuredly he vnderstands the Mysterie of Poperie too well to thinke any otherwise of it than formerly he hath done and no subiect can lay the Cause of Religion more neere their heart than his most Religious Maiestie doth And we haue all great cause to glorifie God who hath blessed our Church with such a wise and constant Defender of the Faith Now my Conscience vrgeth me to deliuer thus much concerning his Maiestie because the Aduersarie in some passages of his ensuing Treatise as by reading you shall obserue rhetoriseth suspitiously intending no doubt to raise some iealousie in credulous minds contrarie to this which I haue spoken My selfe therefore through the gracious Clemencie of his Maiestie being admitted to approach so neere as to be an eare-witnesse of his admirable Iudgement and constant Resolution in point of Religion and hereby certainely knowing that the Jesuit departing from the King added no improuement to his Popish Cause but vanished with foile and disgrace J trust J shall incurre no Censure from men iudicious and louers of Truth for certifying that which J obserued by mine owne experience And thus commending my Labors to the blessing of the Almightie to the examination of my Superiors in the Church and to the perusall of those which desire to read them I addresse my selfe to the ensuing Disputation April 10. 1624. THE CATALOGVE OF QVESTIONS DISPVTED in this Worke. 1. WHether of all other it be the most important Controuersie to vnderstand the Qualitie of the Romane Church Fol. 1. 2. Whether Diuine Faith be resolued finally into vnwritten Tradition or into Scripture 12 3. Touching the Visibilitie and Notes of the Church in generall 49 4. Whether the Romane Church is the Onely Holy Catholike and Apostolike Church 103 5. Whether Protestants erre fundamentally in the Faith 146 6. Whether Protestants erre fundamentally about Tradition 149 7. Whether they doe the like in their Doctrine about Generall Councels 152 8. Whether they erre by denying Papall Supremacie 157 9. Whether they erre in point of Iustification 161 10. Whether they erre in point of Merit of Good Works 169 11. Whether they doe the like concerning the Sacrament of Baptisme 175 12. Whether they erre in the Doctrine of Reall presence 178 13. Whether they doe the like about Penance and Absolution 185 14. Whether they erre about the Article of the Catholique Church 193 15. Touching Worship of Images 209 16. Concerning Inuocation of Saints departed 287 17. Touching prayer of the ignorant in an vnknowne Tongue 365 18. Concerning repetitions of Pater-Nosters Aues and Creeds with reference to Merit 384 19. Concerning Transubstantiation 390 20. Of Communion in one kind 459 21. Of workes of Supererogation and Popes Pardons 510 22. Of deposing Kings and giuing away of their Kingdomes by Papall power directly or indirectly 569 IESVIT TO THE KINGS MOST EXCELLENT MAIESTIE Most Gratious and dread Soueraigne A Conference about Religion betweene Doctour White and me was occasion that your Maiestie called mee to your Gratious presence not disdaining to dispute with one so meane and vnworthie as my selfe imitating his benignitie whose Vicegerent you are and according to the phrase of holy Scripture his Angell And as it is the propertie of the good Angell first to strike feare and terrour into them to whom hee appeares but in the end to leaue them full of comfort In like sort your Maiestie For though the first salutation carried a shew of seueritie yet your dismissing me was benigne and gratious not onely pardoning my earnestnesse in defending the part of the Catholike Church but also saying You liked me the better ANSVVER MIrum est si in facie hominis tantum interuallum inter frontem linguam vt frons non comprimat linguam It is strange saith St. Augustine that there should be such a great distance betweene the front of a man and his mouth that the shame of his forehead should not represse the impudencie of his tongue It is vntrue that his Royall Maiestie at the Cloase of the Conference whereof you speake gaue you any applause or the least occasion to coniecture That hee was taken with any passage of your Disputation For you propounded nothing to demonstrate your owne Tenet or to confute ours worthie of the great Presence to which you were admitted But you kept your selfe within your Trenches and sometimes you were driuen to dissemble your owne Tenet other-while according to the Romish manner by wyre-drawne distinctions and euasions to elude the waight of his Maiesties Arguments making good the saying of Maxentius Mens contentioni Indulgens non sanari sed vincere cupiens auersa ab eis quae rectè dicuntur tantum intenta est in hoc vt inueniat quod pro partibus suis loquatur A contentious mind desirous of victorie and not willing to be reformed but auerse from right sayings only deuiseth how to elude Truth and to speake for his owne part And as for those words of his royal Maiestie I like you the better they were vttered vpon this occasion When the Iesuit being pressed about the point of Temporall authoritie c. did at the first

EFFIGIES DOCTISSIMI UIRI D NI FRANCISCI WHITE S. T. PROFESSORIS ET ECCLESIAE CATHIS CARLEOLENSIS DECANI Aº AETA 59 ANNO 1624 Wisdome and grace see in that modest looke Trueth 's 〈◊〉 errors downfall in this booke Maerebunt piscatores Isa. 19. 8. HONI SOIT QVI MAL Y PENSE BEATI PACIFICI Bv Francis WHITE D. of Div Deane of Carlile Chaplaine to his Matie Hereunto is annexed a Conference of the right R B of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit Cirprianus de lapsis Nec Ecclesiae iungitur qui ab Euāgelio seperatur VERITAS VNIVOCA VERITATE APERIT DIES MENDACIV̄ AEQUIVOCŪ ERROR CAECUS ET FALLAX PISCATORIS RETE HABET RANAS LONDON Printed by Adam Islip 1624. TO THE MOST HIGH AND POTENT MONARCH JAMES OF GREAT BRITTAINE FRANCE and IRELAND King Defender of the Faith my Soueraigne Lord and Maister MOST GRACIOVS and Religious Soueraine it is apparent that the externall Tuition and Projection of Orthodoxall Veritie and Religion next vnder the Almightie doth principally belong to Christian Princes which are by Office and Vocation the Lords Annointed Sonnes of the most High and supreme Regents of this inferior World vnder God The Donates in times past denyed the lawfull Authoritie of Christian Princes in superuising and externall gouerning Ecclesiasticall Causes saying Quid est Imperatori cum Ecclesia What hath Imperiall or Regall Maiestie to doe with the Church But Optatus stileth this a braine-sick Error saying Ille Parmenio furore succensus c. And S. Augustine contesting with these malepart Heretikes saith Jn hoc Reges Deo seruiunt c. Kings according to the Diuine Precept serue the Lord as they be Kings when they command good and prohibite euill not in Ciuile Affaires onely but in Matters which concerne Diuine Religion Jsiodor Hispal saith Secular Princes sometimes that is when they are Christians haue eminent Authoritie intra Ecclesiam within the Church to fortifie Ecclesiasticall Discipline Princes of the Earth saith S. Augustine serue Christ by making Lawes for Christ. And againe Ciuile Vertues in higher Powers auaile them not for eternall Beatitude vnlesse withall they gouerne their People in true Religion And in another Epistle Jt appertaines to Religious Princes to represse by iust seueritie not onely Adulterie Homicide and other hainous Crimes against men but also Sacrilegious Jmpietie against God The Euangelicall Prophet fore-tells that Kings should be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Nursing or Foster-Fathers of the Christian Church Esa. 49.23 Also they are Shepheards of the Almightie and concurrents for the building of his House Esa. 44.28 King Josiah reformed the Iewish Church suppressed Impietie restored true Religion 2. King 23. And hee was herein so farre from transcending the bounds of Regall Authoritie that the Holy Ghost faith of him Like him was there no King before him neither after him arose there any like Constantine the Great by Imperiall Lawes established true Religion Hee appointeth Festiuall Dayes prescribeth what Bishops shall doe for the Churches auaile Hee 〈◊〉 Synods is himselfe an Assessor and Agent among the Nicene Fathers Hee 〈◊〉 and directeth the Bishops Hee confirmeth the Decrees of the Great Councell of Nice and compelleth his Christian subjects to professe the Faith determined in that Synod Now of this Grand Patron of Christian Faith and the true Professors thereof S. Augustine affirmeth The God of Heauen enriched him with such large Blessings in this World Quanta optare nullus auderet as one could not haue presumed to wish S. Cyrill of Alexandria writing to Christian Princes which did the like sayth The Orient Pearles and bright-shining Diamonds of Jndia doe not so much adorne your Royall Heads as your care and protection of true Pietie maketh your sacred Persons venerable and glorious Your most excellent Maiestie walketh in the Religious wayes of those renowned Princes and their example hath euer been the President of the exercising your Royall Authoritie in sacred Causes and of your constant resolution in professing and protecting true Religion The Almightie hath placed you within your Dominions his supreme Vicegerent He hath made you greater than Joseph ouer his House and a Joshua ouer his People you are a Signet vpon the Lords right hand neuer to be plucked off He hath exalted you in Hominem a Deo secundum quicquid est a Deo consecutum solo Deo minorem as Tertullian speaketh the immediate visible person within your Kingdomes vnder himselfe receiuing all your Authoritie and Maiestie from his owne hand and hee hath made you inferior to none but himselfe and to vse S. Cyrils words vttered to Theodosius Vestrae serenitati nullus status est aequalis No State is equall much lesse may ouer-top your serene Maiesties But together with your Regall Power and Authoritie the Almightie hath enriched your heart aboue many other Princes of the World with incomparable Wisdome and Iudgement in matters Religious and Diuine as not onely your owne subiects but euen Forrainers haue obserued and that is fulfilled in you which S. Athanasius once vttered in an Epistle to Jouianus the Emperour Decora eximia res est in principe mens discendi auida rerum Coelestium cupido inde enim fit vt cor tuum vere sie in manu Dei It is a gracious and excellent qualitie in a great Prince to haue a mind desirous of knowledge and affecting the intelligence of Coelestiall things for hereby it commeth to passe that your heart is indeed in the hand of God It is the happinesse therefore of your loyall and Orthodoxall subiects which answere for Veritie against Error that they may defend the same before a King expert in the Questions whereof they dispute and whose cleare-seeing Iudgement like the fining Furnace is able to make difference betweene Gold and Drosse And this hath animated me to present my Replie To a Jesuits Answere of certaine Questions controuerted betweene Papals and vs to your most sacred Maiestie I receiued the Aduersaries Disputation by my Lord Duke of Buckingham who enioyned me in your Maiesties Name to examine and answere the same I could not but admire your Princely zeale to haue true Religion maintained as well by Disputation as by your iust Lawes And although I was conscious to my selfe of the want of those more eminent Graces which are found in greater Diuines yet hauing sensibly obserued your owne vnfained and 〈◊〉 loue to the Religion which we professe and being greatly encouraged by the Noble Duke who is your Maiesties very Image in the constant profession and maintenance of Orthodoxall Veritie I became obedient to your sacred Commandement And now concluding I most humbly desire you who resemble him that dwelling on high despiseth not things below accepting euen the poore Widowes Mite and Goats hayre where greater substance is wanting to giue me leaue to consecrate this my Reply to your most serene Maiestie I confesse this Worke to be ouermeane

we should doe them ô but if the Iesuits were admitted into our bosome wee should haue as that King had presents sent of some Singularities c. Rare trinckets no doubt for which wee could not pay too deare though wee sold our Religion and Libertie for them But in the Example cited that which surpasseth is The Armie of learned Pennes which by thousands will march vpon the Plaine of Paper Monuments for extolling those which nurse vp that brood But would to God these men did not write sometimes with blood How they requited that Kings loue and what securitie hee enioyed by them the dolefull Catastrophe shewed Male ominatis Parcite verbis IESVIT No labours would wee spare nor any indeauours omit nor sticke to venter the losse of any thing deare vnto vs except the grace of God and our eternall saluation to purchase a small portion of that fauour your Maiesties meanest Subiects enioy that wee might in some sort cooperate to the felicitie of the Christian world which as wee are persuaded doth on your Maiesties person singularly depend For God rich in Mercie and Goodnesse as hee hath made your Maiestie partaker of his Power and Authoritis in gouerning this inferiour world so likewise hee hath adorned you with many excellent gifts as Wisedome Learning Authoritie with forraigne Princes and Common-wealths made you beloued of your Subiects that on you are cast the eyes of all Christian Countreys as on the Person whom the Prince of Peace hath beyond the rest inabled to ioyne together againe the parts of Christendome distracted one from another through Contiouersies of Religion ANSWER It is sufficient that you haue libertie to deprecate his Gratious Maiestie to forget things past against himselfe and the State and to thanke his Princely clemencie for the benefit of his mercifull Gouernment whereof you and others haue tasted beyond expectation But in stead heereof you discouer in your selues a restlesse minde neuer to be satisfied vntill that like the Serpent hauing once got in your head you winde in all your bodie Surely some euill Genius guideth you otherwise you could not be so impudent as to sollicite a most iuditious and resolute Prince to be an Apostata from his Faith and to expose his naturall and loyall Subiects to the grosse errours and sharking rapine of Romish Harpies And wherefore must his Maiestie condescend to these heauie conditions forsooth to ioyne together againe the parts of Christendome distracted that is in plaine English vnder pretext of Religion to establish lewd Superstition and Roman Tyrannie Libanius the Sophister in antient time vpon the like ground sollicited Iulian the Emperour to Apostasie but wee say with Saint Hilarie Speciosum nomen est pacis pulchra est opinio vnitatis c. The name of Peace is specious and the opinion of Vnitie carries a faire shew but there is no Euangelicall Peace without Christ that is without true Faith and Charitie in Christ. Saint Augustine saith Habet superbia appetitum quendam vnitatis c. Euen pride it selfe hath a certaine desire of vnitie that it might bee Omnipotent If Peace bee iust and honest saith Polybius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It is a worthie possession and most profitable but if it bee dishonourable and base 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it is of all things most shamefull and pernitious IESVIT If the requests of the pretended Reformers were such as the Roman Church might yeeld vnto them without ouerthrowing the very foundations of the vnitie of Faith If in stead of Catholicke Principles mis-liked by them they did propose such other of their owne as she might see some probabilitie or almost possibilitie of assured continued peace likely to follow vpon her yeelding in some Points feeling compassion in regard of the wound of discord bleeding in the heart of Christendome would mooue her to the vttermost approach towards Protestants that the Law of God can permit though with some disparagement to her honour ANSWER You should rather say If the request of Protestants among whom the King of Great Britaine is most emment were such as that the Romane Prelates might yeeld vnto without hazard of their vsurped Monarchie If Protestants would consent to sond the holy Scriptures packing and not reckon the same among Diuine Principles if they would purchase remission of sinnes by paying tribute into his Holinesse his Checker and not seeke to obtaine the same by the merits of the Lambe of God in a word if they would permit the Romane Nahash to plucke out their right eye that their deuotion might be framed according to the rule of implicite Faith and blinde Obedience sensible feeling of her owne reuiuing greatnesse and lucre would mooue the Romane Mother being tender-hearted to them which present her with Red and White to approach towards Protestants and to hugge them in her armes as Apes doe their Whelpes vntill with ouer-much kindnesse shee crush out their breath IESVIT But so it is that those that defre her Reformation bee so many for number and for Opinions so diuided amongst themselues that it is impossible shee should satis fie all Their Conditions of peace are That she reforme her selfe by forsaking definitions of generall Councells Customes Doctrines vniuersally receiued for many ages time out of minde confessedly without any knowne beginning since the Apostles In stead of these means so potent to stay staggering consciences and to keepe the Christian world in peace they present her with the Scriptures vnderstood by priuate illumination the source of discord from which an Ocean of strife must needes flow These things considered your most Iuditious Maiestie cannot but see that her yeelding would not compose debates alreadie begun but rather open a wide gap to innumerable new brawles and bring them into Kingdomes bitherto with such dissention vntoucht ANSWER Whosoeuer abideth in errour ought to reforme The Roman Church abideth in errour Ergo The Roman Church ought to reforme The Assumption is manifest by the repugnancie of Roman Doctrine against the Faith of the holy Scriptures and against the Doctrine of the Primatiue Church which shall hereafter be prooued in euery point of Difference betweene Romists and vs. But as the Synagogue of the Iewes hated reformation and persisteth in hardnesse of heart to this day so likewise Babylon will not be healed Ierem. 51.9 The Iesuit deliuereth three reasons why the Romane Church cannot yeeld to reformation The first is taken from the manifold diuisions of Protestants among themselues c. But this Argument to say nothing of the leading part thereof is inconsequent for if Romists erre then they ought to reforme whosoeuer they are that admonish them and conuince them of errour And when the antient Church abounded with Schismes and ruptures a meanes was vsed to restore vnitie to wit a common submission to free and lawfull Councells congregated not by Romane Popes but by Christian and religious Emperours and these

compassed about with ignorance and infirmitie and at some times better or worse qualified than at other Also the true Church in firmissimis suis in her firmest members is 〈◊〉 holy for life because the Holy of Holiest sanctifieth and purgeth the same by his Word Sacraments and Grace Eph. 5.26 Tit. 3.5 6. But it is not absolute in holinesse Iam. 3.2 1. Ioh. 1.8 nor yet in euery age so remarkeably holy that it is thereby able to conuert Infidels And the true Church hath not in all ages the gift of Miracles and the pretext of Miracles is common to deceiuers Math. 24.24 25. 2. Thessal 2.9 Apoc. 13.13 And Suares the Iesuit saith Haec adulterari possunt ita exterius fingi vt non sint necessaria signa verae Fidei Miracles may so be adulterated and externally feigned that they may not be necessarie signes of Faith And Canus speaking of Popish miracles and legends saith Nostri pleriquè de industria ita multa 〈◊〉 vt eorum me pudeat taedeat sundrie of our men do so wilfully coine many things in their report of Miracles that I am ashamed and irked of them IESVIT That the Roman is the One Holy Catholicke Apostolicall Church from and by which we are to receiue the Tradition of Christian Doctrine These grounds being laid it is apparant that the Roman Church that is the multitude of Christians spread ouer the world cleauing to the Doctrine and Tradition of the Church of Rome is the One Holy Catholicke and Apostolicall Church ANSVVER The former grounds according to your deliuerie and exposition of them are partly false and partly ambiguous and captious and therefore it cannot be made apparant from them That the moderne Roman Church is the One Holy Catholicke and Apostolicall Church from which we are absolutely to receiue the whole Tradition of Christian Doctrine IESVITS 1. Argument There mnst be alwaies in the world One Holy Catholicke and Apostolicall Church that is a Church deliuering Doctrine vniformely therby making them credible Vniuersally thereby making them famously knowne to mankind Holily so making them certain and such as on them we may securely rely Apostolically so making them perpetually flow without change vnto the present Christianitie in the Channell of neuer interrupted succession of Bishops from the Apostles And this Church must either be the Roman or the Protestants or some other opposit to both Protestants cannot say a Church opposite to both for then they should be condemned in their owne judgement and bound to conforme themselues to that Church which can be no other but the Graecian a Church holding as many or more Doctrines which Protestants dislike than doth the Church of Rome as J can demonstrate if need be ANSVVER There must be alwaies in the world a Church One Holy Catholicke and Apostolicall that is A number of Christians beleeuing and 〈◊〉 professing Christianitie to the sounder part wherof the properties of One Holy Catholicke Apostolicall belong But there is not alwaies in the world an Hierarchiall visible Church consisting of Prelates and people vnited in one externall forme of Policie and profession of Religion vnder an vniuersall Pope to which alone these foure titles are proper or principally belonging And there may bee an Orthodoxall Apostolicall Church consisting of a small number of inferiour Pastors and right beleeuing Christians opposed and persecuted by the Hierarchiall part of the visible Church euen as in the raigne of king Manasses and other idolatrous kings of Iuda when Idolatrie preuailed among the Priests and generall multitude there was a remnant of holy people worshipping God according to his word and not defiled with the impietie of those times Now concerning the disiunctiue part of the Iesuits Argument which is This Church must either be the Roman or the Protestants or some other opposite to both It is answered The Protestant Church is that true and Orthodoxall Church which is One Holy Apostolicke and a sound part of the Catholicke For although the same may be supposed to haue had beginning in Luthers age yet this is vntrue concerning the essence and kind and is true onely touching the name and some things accidentall For in all ages and before Luther some persons held the substantiall articles of our Religion both in the Roman and Graecian Church And by name the Graecians maintained these articles in common with vs That the Roman Church hath not primacie of Iurisdiction Authoritie and Grace aboue or ouer all other Churches neither is the same infallible in her definitions of Faith They denie Purgatorie priuate Masses Sacrifice for the dead and they propugne the mariage of Priests In this Westerne part of the world the Waldenses Taborites of Bohemia the Scholers of Wiclife called in England Lollards maintained the same doctrine in substance with the moderne Protestants as appeareth by the confession of their Faith and by the testimonie of some learned Pontificians And concerning certaine differences obiected to haue beene betweene them and vs we shall afterward shew that the same are no greater than such as haue beene antiently among the Fathers and there are as great differences betweene the Elder and moderne Romists in many passages of their doctrine But now on the contrarie if it were so that we could not for certaine ages past nominate or assigne out of historie any other visible Church besides the Roman or Grecian yet because right Faith may be preserued in persons liuing in a corrupt visible Church as Wheat among Tares 1. King 19. 11. and because God hath promised there shall be alwaies in the world a true Church hauing either a larger or smaller number of professors if Protestants be able to demonstrate that they maintaine the same Faith and Religion which the holy Apostles taught this alone is sufficient to prooue they are the true Church IESVIT It is also most manifest and vndeniable that Protestants are not such a Church nor part of such a Church since their reuoult and separation from the Roman seeing confessedly they changed their Doctrines they once held forsooke the bodie whereof they were members broke off from the stocke of that tree whereof they were branches Neither did they departing from the Roman ioine themselues with any other Church professing their particular doctrines dissonant from it Ergo The Romane is the one holy Catholicke and Apostolicall Church c. ANSVVER Bold words It is most manifest and vndenyable miserable proofes they changed their Doctrine they once held c. If the Pharisees had argued in this manner against Saint Paul or the Manichees and Pelagians against Saint Augustine the one would haue told them That it was no fault to forsake the leauen of Traditions to imbrace the Doctrine of the Gospell confirmed by the Prophets and the other would haue pleaded most iustly That it is a vertue and honour to forsake errour and to imbrace veritie Gods people are commanded vpon a

Israelites formed and worshipped a Golden Calfe they might by conceit and imagination apprehend and worship the true God but this imagination and apprehension was not sufficient to iustifie their Action Men may in their owne wisedome and intention conceiue and worship Images and other Signes as if they were one and the same thing with that which is the proper obiect of Worship but when they conioyne that which God hath diuided their foolish and erroneous fancie and imagination maketh not their Actions lawfull or pleasing to God Aristotle in the place obiected d. Memor cap. 1. in fine affirmeth not either verbally or in sense that there is the same motion of the Conceit and Affection into the externall Image and the Sampler for hee speaketh not of painted or carued Images but of the mentall Image and impression which remayneth in the memorie after the knowledge of things past And many Schoolemen denie that Aristotles testimonie is truly applyed to Aquinas his manner of worshipping Images among which are Durand Picus Mirandula 〈◊〉 Vasques c. It is also apparantly false that there is the same motion of the mind and will into the Image and the Sampler for these are euerie way two distinct Obiects and the one is a signe and the other a thing signified the one is the cause the other the thing caused and in some Images the Sampler is a nature increate the Image considered as an Image and in relation to the Prototype is a thing created the one is adored because of it selfe the other respectiuely because of the Sampler And therefore for as much as the Obiect is diuers and the manner of the Action is diuers the motion of mans heart towards the Image and the Sampler cannot be one motion but diuers euen as when I desire the meanes because of the end here are two distinct Actions and motions to wit Election and Intention IESVIT This Axiome of Philosophie that no man thinke it disauowed in Theologie the antient Fathers vniformely teach as a prime truth euident in reason S. Damascen S. Augustine S. Ambrose S. Basil S. Athanasius who writes An Image of the King is nothing else but the forme and shape of the King which could it speake would and might say J and the King are one the King is in me and I in him so that who adoreth me his Image doth therein adore the verie King Thus he shewing that the Kings Image is to be imagined and by imagination conceiued and honoured as the verie King ANSWER You affirme That the antient Fathers vniformely teach and that as a prime truth That the Image may and ought to stand for the Prototype and is by imagination to be taken as if it were the very Person and consequently that it is ioyntly to be worshipped First you say the antient Fathers teach this Doctrine vniformely secondly you adde That they teach this as a prime Truth But to prooue the first you produce onely fiue Testimonies of Fathers of which one is not very antient and touching the latter you bring nothing The Testimonies of the Fathers examined First Damascene d. Fid. lib. 4. cap. 12. saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 where his signe is there is Christ to wit by operation and grace First this Author liued 740 yeeres after Christ and is none of the antient Fathers Secondly it is confessed by your selues that hee was not Orthodoxall in all points For as Cardinall Bellarmine saith hee denyed the procession of the Holy Ghost from the Sonne and in the matter of Images hee differeth from the antient which were before him Secondly Saint Augustine d. Doctr. Christ. l. 3. c. 9. saith Hee which vseth or worshippeth any profitable signe being of diuine Institution vnderstanding the vertue and signification thereof worshippeth not that which is visible and transeunt but that rather whereunto all such things are referred But Popish Images appointed for Worship are no Sacraments or Ceremonies or Signes of Diuine Institution but humane Traditions condemned by Saint Augustine both among Christians and Pagans Thirdly Saint Ambros. d. Dom. Incarn Sacram. c. 7. saith When we adore his Diuinitie and his flesh doe we diuide Christ When wee worship in him the Image of God and the Crosse doe wee diuide him This Father speaketh not of any Painted Image of God but of the inuisible Image Col. 1.15 Heb. 1.3 And by the Crosse he vnderstandeth the Passion of Christ as appeareth in his next words Etsi crucifixus est c. Saint Basil and Saint Athanasius spake by way of similitude not of all Images but of the Images of Kings which sometimes not alwayes in Ciuile vse and custome not in Religion may be taken and reuerenced for the principall But from a particular and from a similitude which halteth in many things you cannot conclude generally and absolutely Where is now the vniforme consent of Fathers which the Aduersarie glorieth in Damascene is not antient Saint Augustine speaketh of signes which haue diuine institution Saint Ambrose of Christ his Passion and not of Statues or Pictures Saint Basil and Athanasius speake by similitude obiter and by the way But which of these affirmes that Image Worship is a prime veritie But that the Reader may the better conceiue the weight of the Aduersaries Disputation for Worship of Images I will exhibit the same in a Logicall Resolution The Theme or Question is Whether artificiall Images of Christ and of the Saints are to be worshipped The first ground and Argument for the Affirmatiue is If the Samplers themselues are to be worshipped then the Images being liuely Portraitures and representations of those Samplers are to be worshipped The Consequence is denied for besides that all Images and among the rest the Images of Christ are not liuely Portraitures of Christ but dead shaddowes and imperfect and confuled delineations of his humanitie yet whatsoeuer they are artificially and by humane constitution they are not to be worshipped Religiously because no diuine Institution or Authoritie permitteth man so to doe and on the contrary part diuine Precept extant in the Morall Law prohibiteth the doing heereof OBIECTION II. If the Image represent the Sampler and stand for it and by conceit and imagination is one with it then it may and ought to bee worshipped c. But the first is true c. If the Argument be thus resolued the sequel is false for that which representeth another and standeth for another and is by imagination another partaketh not all the Rites and duties of that which it representeth but such onely as by lawfull ordination and by the nature of his kinde it is capable of but Painted and Carued Images neither by the nature of their kinde being things sencelesse liuelesse and destitute of Grace nor yet by any diuine Ordination are capable of Adoration The brasen Serpent was a figure and Image

vnto vs confusion of face v. 9. To the Lord our God belongeth mercy and forgiuenesse though we haue rebelled against thee and v. 18. O my God encline thine eare and heare open thine eyes and behold our desolations c. for we doe not present our supplications before thee for our owne righteousnesse but for thy great mercies Three things are remarkeable in this Scripture First Daniell was a sanctified person and a Prophet one of those which according to our Aduersaries Tenet communicates Satisfactions to fill vp the Churches Treasurie Secondly he prayeth to God not onely for the remission of the eternall guilt of sinne but also for the pardon and release of temporarie punishment Thirdly he presenteth not his owne Satisfactions neither yet the superabundant Passions of any other of the Patriarchs or Prophets but he resteth wholy vpon the free mercy of God and the future satisfaction of the Messiah to come Therefore I conclude that they which conioyne the passions of Saints with the sufferings of Christ to make condigne Satisfaction for the temporarie punishment of sinne are iniurious to the All-sufficient Passion of Christ and attribute that vertue to the actions of men which is proper to the Sacrifice of the Sonne of God Now if the Aduersarie in his answer relye vpon the distinction of eternall and temporall paine affirming that Christ alone and by himselfe hath fully satisfied the iustice of God for the first but not for the latter he must remember That it is not sufficient in a matter of such consequence to affirme but he must confirme by diuine Testimonie the veritie of his answer And if the former Principles and the arguments deduced from them when they are propounded in a due forme conclude not his assertion then his distinction is a begging of the question and not a solution of the Obiection Lastly if the Iesuit will be so rigide as to admit no argument on our part which may receiue any colourable answer I must require him likewise to confirme his owne positions at leastwise with probable reasons and not pester his papers with Illations ridiculous to children But among other things I intreate him to deliuer so much as one probable Argument in due forme I will not require a demonstration proouing that the Roman Bishop or any Prelate vnder him haue power ouer soules in Purgatorie for if his Monarchy be onely ouer the Church Militant and the Church Militant is onely vpon earth by what authoriy doth the Roman Bishop intermeddle with soules in Purgatorie Also how doth his holynesse or his Emissaries the Iesuits and Fryars know which soules are in Purgatorie gatorie and how long they continue in the same and the time and season when it is expedient to apply suffrages and indulgences to them Dominicus Soto and Thomas Zerula say That soules continue not in Purgatorie ten or twentie yeeres and yet the Pope granteth Pardons for many thousands of yeeres Also by what experience or testimonie doe Papists vnderstand the state of soules in Purgatorie the qualitie of their paine their ingresse and egresse from that place of torment or the meanes to apply remedie to them Now let them answere what they please touching the difference of the yeeres of Penance in this life with the measure of Purgatorie paines or concerning any of the former assertions and withall let them be intreated to confirme their Tenet with any probable Argument and wee shall thinke they are lesse partiall when they admit no proofe as sufficient on our part which can be euaded by any straine of wit THE NINTH POINT THE OPINION OF DEPOSING KINGS AND giuing away of their Kingdomes by Papall power whether directly or indirectly IESVIT THe Question proposed in the ninth place being a Controuersie betweene two powers both each in his kind Soueraigne and Supreame both instituted and appointed of God both necessarie for the preseruation of Religion and gouernment of the Christian world both Sacred Venerable Honoured and reuerenced of me in the inmost affections of my soule for me to vndertake the discussion thereof betweene them were to put my selfe into imminent danger of incurring their offence whose fauour J desire and esteeme aboue all worldly blessings ANSVVER IN your entrance into this ninth Question you deliuer these Particulars First That the question is concerning two Powers in their seuerall kinds supreame Secondly Both these Powers Regall and Papall are vnfainedly honoured by you Thirdly You professe your owne vnwillingnesse to discusse this question because of offence To the first I answer That Papall iurisdiction is not supreame in Spirituals by Diuine institution whereas regall is by diuine naturall and ciuill in things ciuill and temporall Gregorie the Great a Roman Pope saith as followeth None of the Romane Bishops my predecessours assumed to himselfe the name of Vniuersall Bishop and if any man else assume the same I say It is a swelling of arrogancie a prowd nouell pompous peruerse temerarious superstitious prophane and impious title A name of Singularitie a title of Errour a word of Vanitie and Blasphemie and whosoeuer taketh vpon him or desireth this arrogant title by this exalting himselfe he is a forerunner of Antichrist and if he be permitted to vsurpe the same it will prooue the bane of the Faith of the vniuersall Church Also if the Roman Monarchie were of Diuine institution how could an Oecumenicall Councell one of those foure which Pope Gregorie himselfe honoured as the foure Euangelists appoint equall dignitie iurisdiction and priuiledges to the Episcopall See of Constantinople and to the See of Rome Againe other Bishops in auntient time stile the Romane by the name of Brother Colleague fellow Priest fellow Bishop c. They resist him and controll his Actions And that which is principally to be considered It appeareth not by diuine Reuelation that our Sauiour or his Apostles granted any Monarchie to the Romane Pope or that he is the onely Successour of S. Peter or that S. Peters authoritie and priuiledges are deuolued vpon the Romane Bishops onely Yea it is not infallible that S. Peter himselfe was a Monarch Luc. 22.24 for in the whole diuine Historie no Monarchicall actions of his are reported He is sent vpon a message by other Apostles Acts 8.14 he giues the right hand of fellowship to S. Paul and Barnabas Gal. 2. 9 and many of the Fathers say the rest of the Apostles were his Compeeres Secondly Your protestation that you honour Papall and regall dignitie must be vnderstood Iesuitically with mentall limitation to wit that you hononr the Pope as an earthly God yea so farre as that if he lead you to Hell you are readie to follow him But you honor Kings as the Popes vassals or in a subordination to the Pope and so farre onely as the Pope will licence you And if you speake plainely and from your heart concerning your loyaltie