THE ANSVVERES OF SOME BRETHREN OF THE MINISTERIE TO THE REPLYES OF THE MINISTERS and Professours of Divinitie in ABERDEENE CONCERNING THE LATE COVENANT 2 CHRON. 15. 15. And all IVDA rejoyced at the Oath For they had sworne with all their heart and sought Him with their whole desire and Hee was found of them Printed the yeare of God 1638. TO THE CHRISTIAN READER THat you maye know our Proceedings how wee are brought upon the Stage and conâ—…rie to our expectation are put in print Comming to Abeâ—…dede on Fryday the afternoone wee received the Demands of our Reverend Brethren that night late and for the greater expedition without delay wee returned our summarie Answers on Saturday at night On the Lords Day following wee desired to expresse our-selves to the People in presence of the Ministerie but the Pulpits and Kirks were altogether refused and therefore in the most convenient place wee could have sub dio and at such houres as were vacant from the ordinarie exercises of publicke Worship wee delivered our Message in the Audience of manie After our last Sermon towards Evening wee found that our labour was not in vaine in the LORD for diverse persons of speciall note both for place and wisedome with willing heart great readinesse of minde did publickly put their hands to the COUENANT Having the weeke following seene some parts of the Countrey where besides the Presbyteries Alford and Deare who had subscribed before the Moderator diverse of the Presbyterie of Aberdene the Presbyterie of Turreff after they were satisfied in some scruples did also subscribe wee returned the next Saturday to Aberdene where finding that some others had subscribed that week we resolved to preach upon the morne That night wee received a Reply unto which before our returne home wee have made an Answere All these we desire may bee unpartially considered and if it shall please the LODD that any light shall come from our labour unto thy minde let it bee ascribed not unto us who neither had time nor helps for such a taske but to the brightnesse of the Trueth and Cause it selfe and to the Father of Lights to whom bee all Glorie VVHat did prodeed from our Penne in our Answâ—… to the D. D. of Aberdeene concerning the late Declaration given to his Majesties Commissioner did flow from minds filled with a zeale to the peace of this Kirk Kingdome and from our earnest desires of a perfect harmonie betwixt the King and his Subjects against all Mistakings This zeale of ours wee confesse made us studie more how to decline and to keepe our selves from touching such of the D. D. demands as were thornie than howe to walke safely through them And likewise to make manifest to his Majesties good Subjects in all places whether the D. D. demands and our answeres should happen to come That matters inclined to pacification and were in a faire way off setling for which peaceable intentions we could conceive nothing to bee more behovefull than by word and write to make knowne to all men the forsaid declaration which his Majesties loyall Subjects presented to his Majesties Commissionar for clearing their Covenant of all unlawfull Combination against Authoritie And by so doing to stoppe the mouthes of our Adversaries and to stay all their obloquies In using of this meane it was far from our thoughts to wound anye man or to write anye word which might give the smallest offence to the meanest of his Majesties Subjects Hoping rather that these our proceedings should have beene more acceptable to Authoritie more approven of the wife and men of understanding and more aggreable unto the minds of such as are for peace than rashly and unadvisedly to have gone on in a Dispute of State questions which hardly at any time hath beene profitable for peace and which at this time seemed to us to say no further most unseasonable impertinent Yet knowing that it were not only base and shamefull but in our persons and in our proceedings in this cause a very great incongruitie and in it selfe sinfull to speake wickedly for GOD and to talke deceitfullie for him for that were as one man mocketh another so to mocke him Iob. 13. 7. 9. and to make iniquitie a meane to promove pietâ—…e a policie which wee have not learned as if GOD could bee served with our sinnes Wee have made heere a briefe relation of the reasons grounds where-upon wee have in our answeres confidently affirmed that his Majesties Commissionar did accept and was well pleased with the late Declaration 1. His G. was most earnest to have the late Covenant so solemnely sworne and so universally subscribed to bee rendred or rescinded and did propone plausible reasons for that effect But this by such strong impediments as were at that time represented and are now extant in print being impossible to us to doe except wee wold sin highly against God His G. afterward declared that the Kings Majesty was most willing to indict an Assembly call a Parliament but that our Covenant in the clause of mutuall defence was a combination against Authoritie and that we had sworne to defend one another in our owne private quarrells aswel as in the cause of Religion This his G. desired to bee removed as a maine hinderance of the obtaining of our desires and without the removall whereof an Assembly and Parliament could not be indicted When this motion of a Declaration was first proponed to the severall meetings the greater part was against it because no Declaration containing â—…ye thing contrarie to the Covenant could bee granted and an explanation of the Covenant the meaning whereof seemed to be plaine enough would no more please than the Covenant it self but by the earnest dealing of some Noblemen of his Majesties Counsell sent from the Commissioner with some Commissioners sent from everie meeting It was thought meet in end that a Supplication containing a Declaration should bee formed which at last his G. did receive at the hands of the Supplicants and upon the receiving thereof promised to deale with the Kings Majestie for obtaining a free Assembly and Parliament which he refused to undertake without this Declaration Thus by the very nature and course of our Proceedings about this point it is manifest that the Declaration was at least in this farre satisfactorie to the Commissioner himselfe that hee did promise to mediate for an Assembly and Parliament which was both the summe of our desires and the onely end of this Declaration So that no man could in any reason think that we should have wronged him in affirming that his G. did accept and was well pleased with that Declaration since upon the sight receiving and hearing thereof he promised to doe his best endeavours with his Majestie for obtaining what was petitioned by us which before and without it his G. had utterly refused to doe 2. The three Noble-men of his Majesties Counsell who were imployed by his G. about this Declaration did
out all Superstition and no wayes to bee contrarie to the Lawes of this Kingdome but to bee compyled and approved for the universall use and edification of all his Majesties Subjects 4. It is so farre from disallowing the sayde Booke that it putteth us in feare that it shall bee prest in a faire and legall way and therefore notwithstanding the Proclamation the necessitie of Covenanting which containeth nothing contrarie to the Acts of Parliament nor to the duetie of good Subjects but is the largest Testimonie of our Fidelitie to GOD and loyaltie to our King whatsoever it maye seemeto you to import doeth yet continue that his Majestie maye bee pleased to grant the full satisfaction of our reasonable Petitions and that our Religion and Liberties may bee preserved for afterwards Who-so-ever professe themselves to be perfectly satisfied with the Proclamation doe proclame in the eares of all the Kingdome that they are better pleased with the Service book and anons than with the Religion as it hath beene prosessed in this Land since the Reformation To the fourth VVEE were assured that your Demand proceeded from a Mistaking therefore according to our knowledge did ingenuously for your satisfaction expound unto you the mind of the Subscribers but find now that we have laboured in vain at your hands from which we have receiued this Reply unto which concerning the first Missinterpretation wee answere 1. That altho we do neither use threatnings nor obtrude our Interpretation upon you as bearing any obligatorie power yet pardon us that wee match you not and put you not in the Ballance with the greatest part of the Kingdome both Ministers and others in whose name we recoÌ„mended this Interpretation unto you by all faire meanes and force of Reason and in so doing wee are so farre from the breach of our solemne Uow and Promise that wee esteeme this to bee no small proofe of that godlynesse and righteousnesse wherein wee are bound by our Covenant to walke 2. The authoritative judgment of our Reformers and Predecessors is evidenced not onlie by the Confession of Fayth ratified in Parliament but also by the bookes of Discipline Acts of generall Assembllies and their owne Writs wherein if yee will ye may find warant for this Interpretation and in respect whereof it is publick ratione medij besides these midses of Scripture of Antiquitie and of the Consent of the reformed Kirks which are named for midses by you Concerning the 2 Missconstruction it is no marvell that Prejudices and pre-conceived opinions possâ—…ssing the mynd make men to fall upon interpretations of their own but in the South parts of the Kingdome where many learned and judicious men both Pastors Professors were assembled at the first subscribing thereof wee remember of none that did fall into that Misstake And the two sorts of Novations such as are alreadie introduced and such as are supplicated against are so punctually distinguished that there is no place left to Ambiguitie but oâ—… the contrarie the Novations which wee promise to forbeare for a time onlie can not bee supposed in the following words to bee abjured for ever as Popish novations 2. Vpon a new examination of the words yee perceive that the Articles of Pearth and Episcopacie are condemned as erronious corruptions because we promise to labour to recover the former puritie libertie of the Gospel unto which our Answere is that it appeareth that you will have all the Covenanters against their intention and whether they will or not to disallow and condemne the Articles of Pearth and Episcopall Governament lest they bee tryed in a generall Assembly But it is knowne to manie hundreths that the words were purposely conceived for satisfaction of such as were of your judgement that we might all joyne in one heart aâ—…d Couenant for establishiâ—…g Religion and opposing errours And for your Argumeâ—…t whether the Articles of Perth and Episcopacie bee against the puritie and liberty of the Gospell or not which is not determined by these words of the Covenant But it cannot be denyed first That if in a free Assembly they bee found to bee â—…gainst the puritie and libertie of the Gospell â—…hey ought to bee abolished in the meane time it beeing left free by the words of the Covenant to all who will to stand to the defence of their lawfulnesse Secondly how can it be denyed that manie corruptions contrarie to the puritie and libertie of the Gospell were they never so innocent in themselves have accompanyed these Novations such as the superstitious observing of Dayes â—…eriation and cessation from worke on those Dayes Feasting guysing c. manie grosse abuses have entred in the Sacrament upon kneeling before the elements and upon the lawlesse usurpation of Prelates in respect whereof even they who allow Pearth Articles and Episcopacie may sweare to recover the puritie of the Gospell And thirdly who can bee so great a stranger at home as to denye that manie corruptions of Poperie and Arminianisme have entred in the Kirke and have beene vented and defended in Schools and pulpits by reason whereof wee are bound everie one of us according to the measure of our light to labour for recovery of our former Puritie And therfore if you had cast your eyes upon the condition of this 〈◊〉 Kirk as yee have pryed narrowlie into the Expressions of the Covenant yee might have spared both your owne labour and ours and not laboured to skarre both your selves and others with this shadow In your Argument ad hominem you should have considered that whatsoever bee our judgment as wee are particular persons yet at this time wee were to bee taken as Commissionars from the whole companio of Subscribers who about this point are of different judgments and if some of your owne judgment had either come alone in our place or had beene joyned in Commission with us we had anticipate your Objection and this yee have beene forced to see and so yourselves in propnunding your Objection have answered your owne Syllogisme in making us to say that yee may sweare and subscribe seeing ye thinke not these thinges to bee abjured in that Oath made Annâ—… 15â—…1 neyther was it for you to inquire in our private Opiniâ—… nor necessarie for us to make it knowne but to have conceived of our mindes according to our Commission and the will of those that sent us Your Arguments neede to bee no impediments unto your swearing of the Covenant For upon your grounds you would not have sworne the Short Confession any time by past yea yee can not sweare the Confession of anie Kirke nay not the Articles of the Crâ—…d because of the diverse Interpretations of the Article of Christs descenâ—… into Hell or swearing them in Scotland and England yee behoved to sweare them in diverse senses There be some words of the Lord's prayer as Give us this day our daylie bread and of the x Commands as the wordes of the 4 Command which are diversly
force of Reason from the high respects which wee owe to Religion to our King to our Native Countrie to our selves and to the posteritie which hath beene to some a greater constraint than any externall violence and we wish may also prevaile with you To the second WEE perceive that you passe in silence that which wee answered concerning the preventing of trouble which by all appearance had beene too sensible to many before this time if the Conventions censured by you had not beene kept we desire that yee would heere declare your selves whether yee would have rather received the Service booke Booke of Canons and other Trash of that kynd tending to the subversion of Religion and to the prejudice of the Liberties of the Kingdomâ—… than to have conveened in a peaceable manner to present Supplications to his Majestie for averting of so great evilis Neither doe yee speake a word of the saying of K. Iames which ought to bee regarded both for the witnesse sake who is of so great authoritie and for the testimony which containeth so great reason For shall not the whole bodie of a Kingdom stirre pro aris 〈◊〉 or shall our Religion be ruined our light bee put out and all men hold their peace We told you also that the first part of the Act of Parliament 1585 is relative to another Act in Queene Maries time which specifieth what sort of Leagues and Bands are forbiddin and setteth us free from the breach of the Act but yee have answered nothing to this and still dispute from the Act of Parliament rather than from othergrounds better beseeming your 〈◊〉 and Ours and in this will so precilelit adhere to the Letter of the Law that you will have no Meetings withhout the Kings consent even in Case of the preservation of Religion of his Majesties Authoritie and of the Liberties of the Kingdome which wee are sure must bee contrarie to the reason and life of the Law since the safetie of the People is the soveraigne Law Although it bee true also that for our Covenant we have the consent of Authoritie pressing upon all the Subjects in the Generall Band and Confession of Faith formerly subscribed for maintenance of the Religion their Subscription and Oath as a note of their soundnesse in Religion and of their loyaltie and fidelitie to the King and his Crown wherin Iuris-Consults more skilled in this kynd than we need to be have given their Responses verdicts in favour of us and our Cause 2. The poynt touching Authoritie is so full of Thornes and Rockes useth to bee so vehemently urged to pro cure envye agaynst the Gospell of CHRIST and can so hardly bee disputed and discussed except in a large Treatise to the satisfaction of King's and Kingdomes and all having interest that for the present wee onelie wish you to heare the testimonies of two great Divines the one is Whitaker in his Answere to Master Reynolds preface pag. 6. Stirres and tumults for matters of Religion Reynold rehearseth that have beene in Germanie France Bohemia as though it were sufficient for their condemnation that they once resisted and did not by and by admitt what-so-ever violence was offered either to GOD'S Trueth or to them-selves contrarie to Promise to Oath to publick Edicts to Law whereby they were warranted to doe as they did more of this matter will I not answere beeing of another nature and cleared long since from the cryme of Rebellion not only by just just defence of their doing but also by the Pro clamations and Edicts of Princes themselves The other is Bilson in his Booke of Christian subjection in defence of the Protestants in other Countreyes against the objection of the Iesuit pag. 332 affirming that subjects maye defend their Antient and Christian Liberties covenanted and agreed upon by those Princes to whom they first submitted themselves and were ever since confirmed and allowed by the Kings that have succeeded they may require their owne right save their own lyves beseech that they bee not used as slaves but lyke Subjects lyke men not lyke beasts that they maye bee convented by Lawes before Iudges not murdered in Corners by Inquisitors This is also the judgment of Rivetus in his Commentarie PSAL. 68 Which beeing looked upon by you will furnish a full answere to what yee have cited at length from his Iesuita vapulans For betwixt Iesuiticall treasonabe pernitious doctrine and practises agaynst Princes and Magistrates refuted by him and the loyall and sound doctrine of Protestants your selves knowe the difference and opposition lyke as it is cleare as the Sunne by that short Confession by the Application there-of to the tymes in this present Confession by our publicke Protestation and by the Declaration exhibited to his Majesties Commissioner that wee meane not onely mutuall concurrence and assistance in the cause of Religion but also to the uttermost of our power to defend the King's Majestie his Person and Authoritie Wee would bee glad that yee and others were witnesses to our private prayers nd the most secret of our thoughts and affections concerning our loyaltie to our dread Soveraigne so should yee either cease to write in this against us or bee forced to write against your own Consciences 5 When wee justifie our Conventions and Covenants from their purposed ends we meane not only the last and most remote ends but the nearest and immediate and if nothing in these can merite just censure the Conventions and Covenants no more in that which yee call the Object nor in their ends can bee culpable what Aspersions have beene put upon our Reformation and Reformers by the malice of our Adversaries can not bee unknowne to you But wee wish that your ingynes and pennes maye bee better imployed than to joyne with them in so badde a Cause which we expect also from your prudence considering the people and place where yee live To the third Yâ—…E doe well and wisely that you search not curiouslie into the myndes of Princes and Reasons of State but whether all his Majesties Subjects bee satisfied with the last Proclamation needeth no deepe search For although possibly some had beene more pleased with a Proclamation commanding the Service Booke such especiallie who either will see no errours in it or have publicklie prosessed that they have beene groaning for it yet the Protestation of the Supplicants against it as it giveth most humble and heartie thankes to his gratious Majestie for what is granted so it restifieth upon undenyable evidences that the Proclamation is not a satisfaction of our just desiâ—…es for first the Proclamation supposeth the Service Booke to bee no Innovation of Religion 2. That it is not contrare to Pro testant-Religion 3. That the Proclamation giveth not orâ—…r for discharging all the Acts made in favours of the Service Booke especially that of the 19 of Februarie which giveth unto it so great Approbation as serving for maintaining the true Religion and to beate
given concerning the foresayd aspersions and Calumnies wee having no Commission to declare the mindes of others in this point or to give Documents for our own private judgement doe heartilie disallow everie Wrong of that kynd As for the Apologie of Doctour Iohn Forbes of Corse seeing the Wrong hath beene done not unto some few particulare persons such as ye say have been wronged by some of the people but unto the bodie of the Kingdome consisting of Noble-men Barons c. who are highlie offended thereby it were in us Presumption and without the bounds of our Calling to take upon us to receive any Declaration of that kynd especiallie wherein so manie things are reprooveable as first That his bitter speaches were occasioned by some printed bookes affirming that Episcopacie and Perth Articles were antichristian and abominable Supposing it were true did he think the Noble-men and whole Covenanters to be the Authors of those Bookes And was this dealing agreeable to that Christian meeknesse so much requyred of us before The Wryters of those printed Bookes are not the first who have spoken so For Master Knox spared not in a Letter of his to call this Kneeling A Diabolicall invention Secoudly The swearing of forbearance of the practise of Perth articles the coÌ„firmation of the said doctrine which wee neither deny nor affirme to bee imported in the olde Covenant but onelie in the interpretation thereof wee de clare That Promise is onely made to forbeare for a tyms doth not deserve so bitter a censure as this Apologie beareth upon us 3. If the King's Majestie Councell or the subjects of Scotland had asked his opinion and advice hee he might have used the greater libertie 4. It is ill apologized to call it an holy indignation worse defended since it is such a wrath as worketh not the righteousnesse of GOD. 5. Whereas hee desireth to be accounted in the number of these qui proficiendo scribunt scribendo proficium wee could wish that hee had profited better by writing than hee hath done by wryting his Irenicum first now this his Warning after his Irenicum for which if hee make no better Apologie than confessing asperitis of wordes proceeding from an holy indignation it will come to passe of his Apologie as it fared with his Irenicum unto which was applyed fitly what was spoken in the lyke case Aut fabrum forceps aut ars ignara fefellit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 voluit cudere cudit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 6. Whereas yee desire us to doe the lyke if yee meane of us personallie wee have declared our judgement and shall bee carefull to approve our selves to GOD and the consciences of all men in everie such duetie and if yee meane us and those that sent us wee shall not faile to to report unto them what yee desire altho our Commission from you had beene more acceptable if yee had spoken more reverently of our Confession and Covenant than yee have beene pleased to doe in the wordes of your desire and had put your hand unto the Covenant which would presently have joyned us in a greater Affection and made way for union in judgement and perfect peace which is the desire of our Soules To the thirteenth YEe pretended a threefolde Scandall which should follow upon your Subscription 1. The scandall of dissenting from other reformed Kirkes and famous Divines 2. The scandall of dissenting from Anthoritie 3. The Scandall of Perjurie Wee answered That the controverted words of the Covenant being rightly conceived interpreted according to their true meaning not after the glosse which yee have put upon them doe put you out of danger of all the three Scandalls which yee seeme to acknowledge of the first two and maye by the lyke reason acknowledge of the third of Perjurie We dispute not of the lawfulnesse of the Oath given at your Admission by what Authoritie it was exacted with what conscience it was given nor how yee can answere for the scandall risen thereupon but conceaving it according to your owne grounds none of you will saye that yee have sworne the perpetuall Approbation and Practise of those things which yee esteeme to bee indifferent what-soever bad consequent of Poperie Idolatrie Superstition or scandall should follow thereupon wee speake heere onely of thinges Indifferent in your owne judgement for yee have declared before that yee thinke the Ministration of the Sacraments in piivate places no more indifferent and therefore cannot forbeare the practise of these altho your Ordinarie and other lawfull Superiours should will you to doe soe wherein Pearths Assembly for which you stand is wronged by you two wayes 1. That yee differ in judgement from them about the indifferencâ—…e of the five Articles and next that at the will of your Ordinarie and wee knowe not what other lawfull Superiours yee are readie to forbeare the practise of these thinges which the Assembly hath appointed to bee observed What Oathes you have given at your admission wee know not because their is no ordinance made Civil or Ecclesiasticke appointing any such oath and because the Prelates who arrogated that power presented to the intrants diverse models of Articles to bee subscribed dealing with some more hardlie and with others more favourably according to their owne diverse motives and considerations For some immediately after Pâ—…rth Assembly without anye warrant from the Kirke or Parliament were made to sweare at their admission that they should both in private and publicke maintaine Episcopall Iurisdiction and in their private and publicke prayers commend the Prelats to Gods mercifull Protection that they should subject themselves to the Orders that presently were in the Kirk or by the consent of the said Kirke should bee lawfullie established The word lawfullie was not in the Principal first subscribed as wee have learned and if it had beene exprest it is all one for the Superiors were Iudges to this lawfulnesse and vnlawfulnesse Wee will not labour to reconcile everie Oath given by Ministers at their entry with the present Covenant but wish and exhort rather that they may bee recalled and repented of as thinges for which they cannot answere before a generall Assembly To the fourteenth IF the words of the Covenant bee plaine concerning the meere forbearance speake nothing of the vnlawfulnes no man's thoughts can make a change 2. By this Reply ye wrong your selves in forging from the words of the Covenant impediments and drawing stumbling blocks in your own way to hinder your Subscription yee wrong the subscribers in changing the state of the question in making a divorce betwixt Religion and the Kings Authority which the Covenant joyneth together hand in hand and most of all ye wrong the Kings Majestie in bringing him upoÌ„ the Stage before his subjects in whose minds ye wold beget breed susspitions of opposing the Trueth of making innovation of Religion of dealing with his subjects contrary to his laws Proclamations cotrary to the Oath at his Coronation We are not here seeking inscitiae 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or a starting hole of ignorance or the smalllest disloyalty of affection but would willingly decline that for the present which neither his Majesties wisdome