have a better Game to play nor a better Adversary to deal with than one who leaps in over the Heads of almost all the Protestant Princes Families abroad besides some Papists who are greater and when we have been harrassed with Wars and the miseries that accompany it some few years you shall have all these fine People who now run after him very weary of their new Prince I would not say any thing to disparage a Person so highly born and of so early merit but this I may say That if a Lawful Title should be set on foot in his favour and a thousand Dutch Hosts and such like should swear a Marriage yet no sober Man that is not blinded with prejudice will believe That our King whom none can deny to have an excellent understanding would ever Marry a Woman so much his Inferiour as this great Persons Mother was and this at a time when his Affairs were very low and he had no visible or rational hopes to be restored to the Possession of his Kingdoms but by an assistance which might have been afforded him by means of some great Foreign Alliance Well but to leave all this do these Men pretend that the Duke of Monmouth shall be declared Successour to the Crown in Parliament with the King 's Concurence or without it if without it you must make a War for it and I am sure that no Cause can be stated upon such a point that will not make the Assertors and Undertakers of it be condemned by all the Politicians and Moralists of the World and by the Casuists of all Religions and so by consequence it is like to be a very unsuccesful War If you would have this declar'd with the King's Consent either you suppose the Royal assent to be given when the King has his liberty either to grant it or not grant it to Dissolve the Parliament or not Dissolve it without ruine or prejudice to his Affairs If in the first Case it is plain he will not grant it because he cannot do it without confessing his Marriage to that Duke's Mother which he hath already declared against in a very solemn manner and caused it to be Registred in Chancery and which not only no good Subject can chuse but believe but which cannot be doubted by any rational person for it would be a very unnatural and indeed a thing unheard of that a Father who had a Son in Lawful Matrimony and who was grown to perfection and had signalized himself in the Wars and who was ever intirely beloved by him should disinherit him by so solemn an asseveration which must be a false one too to cause his Brother to succeed in his room And whereas it is pretended by some that His Majesties danger from his Brothers Counsels and Designs may draw from him something of this beside that they do not much Complement the King in this it is clear his Brother is not so Popular but that he may secure him when he pleases without hazard if there were any ground for such an apprehension But we must in the next place suppose that the King's Affairs were in such a posture that he could deny the Parliament nothing without very great mischief and inconvenience to himself and the Kingdom then I say I doubt not but the Wisdom of the Parliament will find out divers Demands and Requests to make to His Majesty of greater benefit and more necessary for the good of his People than this would be which draws after it not only a present unsetledness but the probable hazard of Misery and Devastation for many years to come as has been proved So that as on the one side the Parliament could not make a more unjustfiable War than upon this Account so they could not be Dissolved upon any occasion wherein the People would not shew less discontent and resentment and for which the Courtiers would not hope to have a better pretext to strive in the next Choice to make their Arts and endeavours more successful in the Election of Members more suitable to their Designs for the continuance of this present mis-government For if this Parliament do mis-spend the Peoples Mettle which is now up in driving that Nail which cannot go they must look to have it cool and so the Ship of this Commonwealth which if they please may be now in a fair way of Entering into a Safe Harbour will be driven to Sea again in a Storm and must hope for and expect another favourable Wind to save them and God knows when that may come Doct. But Sir there are others who not minding whether the Parliament will consider the Duke of Monmouths concern so far as to debate it do yet pretend that there is great reason to keep up the peoples affections to him and possibly to foment the opinion they have of his Title to the Crown to the end that if the King should die re infectà that is before such time as the Government is redrest or the Duke of York disabled by Law to Succeed the people might have an Head under whose Command and Conduct they might stand upon their Guard till they had some way secured their Government and Religion Eng. Gent. What you have started is not a thing that can safely be discoursed of nor is it much material to our design which is intended to speculate upon our Government and to shew how it is decayed I have industriously avoided the argument of Rebellion as I find it coucht in modern Polititians because most Princes hold that all Civil Wars in mixt Monarchies must be so and a Polititian as well as an Oratour ought to be Vir bonus so ought to discourse nothing how rational soever in these points under a peaceable Monarchy which gives him protection but what he would speak of his Prince if all his Councel were present I will tell you only that these Authors hold that nothing can be alledged to excuse the taking Arms by any people in opposition to their Prince from being Crimen Lesae Majestatis but a claim to a lawful Jurisdiction or Co-ordination in the Government by which they may judg of and defend their own Rights and so pretend to fight for and defend the Government for though all do acknowledg that Populi salus is and ought to be the most Supreme or Soveraign Law in the world yet if we should make private persons how numerous soever judg of Populi salus we should have all the Risings and Rebellions that should ever be made justified by that title as happened in France when La Guerre du bien publique took that name which was raised by the insatiable ambition of a few Noblemen and by correspondency and confederacy with Charles Son of the Duke of Burgundy and other enemies to that Crown Doct. But would you have our people do nothing then if the King should be Assassinated or die of a natural death Eng. Gent. You ask me a very fine question Doctor
five parts of six have been alienated and mostly is come into the same hands with those of the King and Peers have inherited likewise according to the course of nature their Power But being kept from it by the established Government which not being changed by any lawfull Acts of State remains still in being formally whereas virtually it is abolished so that for want of outward Orders and Provisions the people are kept from the Exercise of that Power which is faln to them by the Law of Nature and those who cannot by that Law pretend to the share they had do yet enjoy it by vertue of that Right which is now ceased as having been but the natural Effect of a Cause that is no longer in being and you know sublata causa tollitur I cannot say that the greater part of the people do know this their condition but they find very plainly that they want something which they ought to have and this makes them lay often the blame of their unsetledness upon wrong causes but however are altogether unquiet and restless in the Intervals of Parliament and when the King pleases to assemble one spend all their time in Complaints of the Inexecution of the Law of the multiplication of an Infinity of Grievances of Mis-spending the Publick Monies of the danger our Religion is in by practices to undermine it and the State by endeavours to bring in Arbitrary Power and in questioning great Officers of State as the Causers and Promoters of all these Abuses in so much that every Parliament seems a perfect State of War wherein the Commons are tugging and contending for their Right very justly and very honourably yet without coming to a Point So that the Court sends them packing and governs still worse and worse in the Vacancies being necessitated thereunto by their despair of doing any good in Parliament and therefore are forced to use horrid shifts to subsist without it and to keep it off without ever considering that if these Counsellers understood their Trade they might bring the Prince and People to such an Agreement in Parliament as might repair the broken and shipwrack'd Government of England and in this secure the Peace Quiet and Prosperity of the People the Greatness and Happiness of the King and be themselves not only out of present danger which no other course can exempt them from but be Renowned to all Posterity Noble Ven. I beseech you Sir how comes it to pass that neither the King nor any of his Counsellors could ever come to find out the truth of what you discourse for I am fully convinced it is as you say Eng. Gent. I cannot resolve you that but this is certain they have never endeavoured a Cure though possibly they might know the Disease as searing that though the Effects of a Remedy would be as was said very advantagious both to King and People and to themselves yet possibly such a Reformation might not consist with the Merchandize they make of the Princes Favour nor with such Bribes Gratuities and Fees as they usually take for the dispatch of all Matters before them And therefore our Counsellors have been so far from suggesting any such thing to their Master that they have opposed and quashed all Attempts of that kind as they did the worthy Proposals made by certain Members of that Parliament in the beginning of King James's Reign which is yet called the Undertaking Parliament These Gentlemen considering what we have been discoursing of viz. That our old Government is at an end had framed certain Heads which if they had been proposed by that Parliament to the King and by him consented to would in their Opinion have healed the Breach and that if the King would perform his part that House of Commons would undertake for the Obedience of the People They did believe that if this should have been moved in Parliament before the King was acquainted with it it would prove Abortive and therefore sent three of their number to his Majesty Sir James a Croft Grandfather or Father to the present Bishop of Hereford Thomas Harley who was Ancestor to the Honourable Family of that Name in Herefordshire and Sir Henry Nevill who had been Ambassador from Queen Elizabeth to the French King These were to open the matter at large to the King and to procure his leave that it might be proposed in Parliament which after a very long Audience and Debate that wise Prince consented to with a promise of Secresie in the mean time which they humbly begged of His Majesty However this took Vent and the Earl of Northampton of the House of Howard who ruled the Rost in that time having knowledg of it engaged Sir R. Weston afterwards Lord Treasurer and Earl of Portland to impeach these Undertakers in Parliament before they could move their matters which he did the very same day accompanying his Charge which was endeavouring to alter the established Government of England with so eloquent an Invective that if one of them had not risen and made the House acquainted with the whole Series of the Affair they must have been in danger of being impeached by the Commons but however it broke their designe which was all that Northampton and Weston desired and prevented Posterity from knowing any of the Particulars of this Reformation for nothing being moved nothing could remain upon the Journal So that you see our Predecessors were not ignorant altogether of our condition though the Troubles which have befallen this poor Kingdom since have made it much more apparent for since the Determination of that Parliament there has not been one called either in that King's Reign or his Son 's or since that hath not been dissolved abruptly whilst the main businesses and those of most concern to the publick were depending and undecided And although there hath happened in this Interim a bloody War which in the Close of it changed the whole Order and Foundation of the Polity of England and that it hath pleased God to restore it again by his Majesty's happy Return so that the old Government is alive again yet it is very visible that its deadly Wound is not healed but that we are to this day tugging with the same difficulties managing the same Debates in Parliament and giving the same disgusts to the Court and hopes to the Country which our Ancestors did before the Year 1640. whilst the King hath been forced to apply the same Remedy of Dissolution to his two first Parliaments that his Father used to his four first and King James to his three last contrary to his own visible Interest and that of his people and this for want of having Counsellors about him of Abilities and Integrity enough to discover to him the Disease of his Government and the Remedy which I hope when we meet to Morrow Morning you will come prepared to enquire into for the Doctor says he will advise you to go take the Air this afternoon in your
preservation whenever he shall undertake any thing for the increase of his own Power and the depressing his Parliaments Noble Ven. What you say is very undeniable but then the Remedy is very easie and obvious as well as very just and honourable which is the taking away those cruel Laws and if that were done they would be one People with you and would have no necessity and by consequence no desire to engreaten the King against the Interest and Liberty of their own Country Eng. Gent. You speak very well and one of the Reasons amongst many which I have to desire a composure of all our troubles by a setled Government is that I may see these People who are very considerable most of them for Estates Birth and Breeding live quietly under our good Laws and increase our Trade and Wealth with their expences here at home whereas now the severity of our Laws against them makes them spend their Revenues abroad and inrich other Nations with the Stock of England but as long as the State here is so unsetled as it is our Parliaments will never consent to countenance a Party who by the least Favour and Indulgence may make themselves able to bring in their own Religion to be National and so ruine our Polity and Liberties Noble Ven. I wonder why you should think that possible Eng. Gent. First Sir for the Reason we First gave which is the craziness of our Polity there being nothing more certain than that both in the Natural and also the Politick Body any sinister accident that intervenes during a very Diseased habit may bring a dangerous alteration to the Patient An Insurrection in a decayed Government a thing otherwise very inconsiderable has proved very fatal as I knew a slight flesh-wound bring a lusty Man to his Grave in our Wars for that he being extreamly infected with the French Disease could never procure the Orifice to close so although the designs both at home and abroad for altering our Religion would be very little formidable to a well-founded Government yet in such an one as we have now it will require all our care to obviate such Machinations Another Reason is the little Zeal that is left amongst the ordinary Protestants which Zeal uses to be a great Instrument of preserving the Religion establish'd as it did here in Queen Elizabeths time I will add the little Credit the Church of England hath amongst the People most men being almost as angry with that Popery which is left amongst us in Surplices Copes Altars Cringings Bishops Ecclesiastical Courts and the whole Hierarchy besides an Infinite number of Useless Idle Superstitious Ceremonies and the Ignorance and Vitiousness of the Clergy in general as they are with those Dogma's that are abolished So that there is no hopes that Popery can be kept out but by a company of poor People called Fanaticks who are driven into Corners as the First Christians were and who only in truth Conserve the Purity of Christian Religion as it was planted by Christ and his Apostles and is contained in Scripture And this makes almost all sober men believe that the National Clergy besides all other good qualities have this too that they cannot hope to make their Hierarchy subsist long against the Scriptures the hatred of mankind and the Interest of this People but by Introducing the Roman Religion and getting a Foreign Head and Supporter which shall from time to time brave and hector the King and Paliament in their favour and behalf which yet would be of little advantage to them if we had as firm and wise a Government as you have at Venice Another Reason and the greatest why the Romish Religion ought to be very warily provided against at this time is That the Lawful and Undoubted Heir to the Crown if his Majesty should die without Legitimate Issue is more than suspected to Imbrace that Faith which if it should please God to call the King before there be any Remedy applied to our Distracted State would give a great opportunity by the Power he would have in Intervals of Parliament either to Introduce immediately that profession with the help of our Clergy and other English and Foreign Aids or else to make so fair a way for it that a little time would perfect the work and this is the more formidable for that he is held to be a very Zealous and Bigotted Romanist and therefore may be supposed to act any thing to that end although it should manifestly appear to be contrary to his own Interest and Quiet so apt are those who give up their Faith and the Conduct of their Lives to Priests who to get to themselves Empire promise them the highest Seats in Heaven if they will sacrifice their Lives Fortunes and Hopes for the Exaltation of their Holy Mother and preventing the Damnation of an innumerable company of Souls which are not yet born to be led away with such Erroneous and wild Fancies Whereas Philip the Second of Spain the House of Guise in France and other great Statesmen have always made their own greatness their first Aim and used their Zeal as an Instrument of that And instead of being cozen'd by Priests have cheated them and made them endeavour to Preach them up to the Empire of the World So I have done with the Growth of Popery and must conclude that if that should be stopt in such manner that there could not be one Papist left in England and yet our Polity left in the same disorder that now afflicts it we should not be one Scruple the better for it nor the more at quiet the Growth and Danger of Popery not being the Cause of our present Distemper but the Effect of it But as a good and setled Government would not be at all the nearer for the destruction of Popery so Popery and all the Dangers and Inconveniences of it would not only be further off but would wholly vanish at the sight of such a Reformation And so we begin at the wrong end when we begin with Religion before we heal our Breaches I will borrow one Similitude more with our Doctor 's favour from his Profession I knew once a man given over by the Physitians of an incurable Cachexia which they said proceeded from the ill Quality of the whole Mass of Blood from great Adustion and from an ill habit of the whole Body The Patient had very often painful Fits of the Chollick which they said proceeded from the sharpness of the humour which caused the Disease and amongst the rest had one Fit which tormented him to that degree that it was not expected he could out-live it yet the Doctors delivered him from it in a small time Notwithstanding soon after the man died of his first Distemper Whereas if their Art had arrived to have cured that which was the Cause of the other the Chollick had vanished of it self and the Patient recovered I need make no Application nor shall need
to say much of the Succession of the Crown which is my next Province but this I have said already That it is needless to make any Provision against a Popish Successor if you rectifie your Government and if you do not all the Care and Circumspection you can use in that Particular will be useless and of none effect and will but at last if it do not go off easily and the next Heir succeed peaceably as is most likely especially if the King live till the People's Zeal and Mettle is over end probably in a Civil War about Title and then the Person deprived may come in with his Sword in his Hand and bring in upon the Point of it both the Popish Religion and Arbitrary Power Which though I believe he will not be able to maintain long for the Reasons before alledged yet that may make this Generation miserable and unhappy It will certainly be agreed by all lovers of their Country that Popery must be kept from returning and being National in this Kingdom as well for what concerns the Honour and Service of God as the Welfare and Liberty of the People and I conceive there are two ways by which the Parliament may endeavour to secure us against that danger the first by ordering such a change in the Administration of our Government that whoever is Prince can never violate the Laws and then we may be very safe against Popery our present Laws being effectual enough to keep it out and no new ones being like to be made in Parliament that may introduce it and this remedy will be at the same time advantagious to us against the Tyranny and Incroachments of a Protestant Successor so that we may call it an infallible Remedy both against Popery and Arbitrary power The second way is by making a Law to disable any Papist by name or otherwise from Inheriting the Crown and this is certainly fallible that is may possibly not take place as I shall shew immediately and besides it is not improbable that an Heir to this Kingdom in future times may dissemble his Religion till he be seated in the Throne or possibly be perverted to the Roman Faith after he is possest of it when it may be too late to limit his Prerogative in Parliament and to oppose him without that will I fear be Judged Treason Doct. But Sir would you have the Parliament do nothing as things stand to provide at least as much as in them lies that whoever succeeds be a good Protestant Eng. Gent. Yes I think it best in the first place to offer to his Majesty the true Remedy if they find him averse to that then to pursue the other which concerns the Succession because the People who are their Principals and give them their Power do expect something extraordinary from them at this time and the most of them believe this last the only present means to save them from Popery which they judge and very justly will bring in with it a change of Government But then I suppose they may be encouraged to propose in the first place the true Cure not only because that is infallible as has been proved but likewise because His Majesty in probability will sooner consent to any reasonable Demand towards the Reforming of the Government and to the securing us that way than to concur to the depriving his onely Brother of the Crown And possibly this latter as I said before may be the only way the Parliament can hope will prove effectual For if you please to look but an Age back into our Story you will find that Henry the Eighth did procure an Act of Parliament which gave him power to dispose of the Crown by his last Will and Testament and that he did accordingly make his said Will and by it devise the Succession to his Son Edward the Sixth in the first place and to the Heirs of his Body and for want of such to his Daughter Mary and to the Heirs of her Body and for want of which Heirs to his Daughter Elizabeth our once Soveraign of Immortal and Blessed Memory and the Heirs of her Body and for want of all such Issue to the right Heirs of his Younger Sister who was before he made this Will married to Charles Brandon Duke of Suffolk and had Issue by him By this Testament he disinherited his elder Sister who was married in Scotland and by that means did as much as in him lay exclude His Majesty who now by God's Mercy Reigns over us as also his Father and Grandfather And to make the Case stronger there passed an Act long after in the Reign of Queen Elizabeth That it should be Treason during that Queen's Life and a Premunire afterwards to assert that the Imperial Crown of England could not be disposed of by Act of Parliament yet after the Decease of that Queen there was no considerable Opposition made to the peaceable Reception and Recognition of King James of happy Memory And those who did make a little stir about the other Title as the Lord Cobham Sir Walter Rawleigh and a few others were apprehended condemn'd according to Law And notwithstanding that since in the Reign of K. Charles the First there was a bloody Civil War in which Men's Minds were exasperated at a high rate yet in all the Course of it the Original Want of Title was never objected against His late Majesty I do not urge this to aver that the Parliament with the King's Consent cannot do lawfully this or any other great Matter which would be an incurring the Penalty of that Law and a Solecism in the Politicks But to shew that when the Passions of men are quieted and the Reasons other than they were it happens oftentimes that those Acts which concern the Succession fall to the Ground of themselves and that even without the Sword which in this Case was never adoperated And that therefore this Remedy in our Case may be likely never to take place if it please God the King live till this Nation be under other kind of Circumstances Doct. Sir you say very well but it seems to me that the last Parliament was in some kind of Fault if this be true that you say for I remember that my Lord Chancellor did once duringtheir Sitting in His Majesty's Name offer them to secure their Religion and Liberties any way they could advise of so they would let alone meddling with the Succession and invited them to make any Proposals they thought necessary to that end Eng. Gent. Hinc ille lachrimae If this had been all we might have been happy at this time but this Gracious Offer was In limine accompanied with such Conditions that made the Parliament conjecture that it was only to perplex and divide them and did look upon it as an Invention of some new Romanza Counsellors and those too possibly influenced by the French to make them embrace the Shaddow for the Substance and satisfying themselves with
this Appearance to do their ordinary Work of giving Money and be gone and leave the Business of the Kingdom as they found it For it was proposed that whatsoever Security we were to receive should be both Conditional and Reversionable That is First We should not be put into Possession of this new Charter be it what it will till after the death of His Majesty who now is whereas such a Provision is desirable and indeed necessary for us for this only reason that when that unfortunate hour comes we might not be in that Confusion unprovided of a Calm Setled and Orderly as well as a Legal Way to keep out Popery Whereas otherwise if we be to take Possession in that Minute it must either miscarry or be gotten by a War if it be true that Possession be Nine Points of the Law in other Cases it is in this the whole Ten and I should be very unwilling in such a Distraction to have no Sanctuary to fly to but a piece of Parchment kept in the Pells and to have this too as well as other Advantages in the Power and Possession of him in whose prejudice it was made this had been almost as good an Expedient to keep out Popery as the Bill which was thrown out that Parliament which provided that in the Reign of a King that should be a Papist the Bishops should chuse one another upon Vacancies Those Counsellors who put my Lord Chancellor upon this Proposal were either very slender Politicians themselves or else thought the Parliament so If Magna Charta and The Petition of Right had not been to take place till after the Decease of those Princes who confirmed them neither had the Barons shed their Blood to so good purpose nor the Members of the Parliament in Tertio Caroli deserved so Glorious an Imprisonment after it was ended The other Condition in this renowned Proposal is That all Provision and Security which is given us to preserve our Religion shall cease immediately whenever the Prince shall take a certain Oath to be penned for that purpose and I leave it to all thinking men to determine what that will avail us when we shall have a King of that Profession over us who shall not have so much Zeal for his Religion as he who is now the next successor hath but shall possibly prefer his Ambition and his desire to get out of Wardship before the Scruples of his Confessor and yet may afterwards by getting Absolution for and Dispensation from such Oaths and Compliance employ the Power he gets himself and the Security he deprives us of to introduce violently what Worship and Faith he pleases This Gracious Offer had the fatality to disguist one of the best Parliaments that ever Sate and the most Loyal so that laying it aside they fell upon the Succession the only thing they had then left and were soon after Dissolved leaving the Kingdom in a more distracted Condition than they found it and this can no way be composed but by mending the Polity so that whoever is King cannot be he never so inclined to it introduce Popery or destroy whatever Religion shall be established as you see in the Example of the Dutchy of Hanover whose Prince some fourteen Years since was perverted to the Roman Church went to Rome to abjure Heresie as they call the truth return'd home where he lived and Governed as he did before without the least Animosity of his Subjects for his Change or any endeavour of his to Introduce any in his Government or People and dying this last Spring left the Peaceable and undisturbed Rule of his Subjects to the next Successor his Brother the Bishop of Osnaburg who is a Protestant and this because the Polity of that Dukedom has been conserved entire for many years and is upon a right Basis and if our Case were so we should not onely be out of danger to have our Religion altered as I said before whoever is King but should in other things be in a happy and flourishing condition But I have made a long and tedious digression to answer your demands Now 't is time you assist me to find the Natural Cure of all our Mischiefs Doct. Stay Sir I confess my self to be wonderfully Edified with your discourse hitherto but you have said nothing yet of the Duke of Monmouth Eng. Gent. I do not think you desire it though you were pleased to mention such a thing for I suppose you cannot think it possible that this Parliament which is now speedily to meet by his Majesties Gracious Proclamation can ever suffer such a thing to be so much as Debated amongst them Doct. Sir you have no reason to take that for granted when you see what Books are Printed what great and Honourable Persons frequent him in private and countenance him in publick what shoals of the middle sort of people have in his Progress this Summer met him before he came into any great Town and what Acclamations and Bon-fires have been made in places where he lodged Eng. Gent. These things I must confess shew how great a Distemper the People are in and the great reason we have to pray God of his Mercy to put an end to it by a happy Agreement in Parliament But certainly this proceeds only from the hatred they have to the next Successour and his Religion and from the compassion they have to the Duke of Monmouth who as they suppose hath suffered banishment and dis-favour at Court at his Instance and not from any hopes of expectations that the Parliament will countenance any pretence that can be made in his behalf to the Succession Doct. It may be when we have discoursed of it I shall be of your mind as indeed I am enclined already But yet nothing in War is more dangerous than to contemn an Enemy so in this Argumentation that we use to secure our Liberties we must leave nothing unanswered that may stand in the way of that especially the Duke of Monmouth's Claim which is pretended to confirm and fortifie them for say some Men if you set him up he will presently pass all Bills that shall concern the Safety and Interest of the People And so we shall be at rest for ever Eng. Gent. Well I see I must be more tedious than I intended First then the reasoning of these men you speak of does in my apprehension suppose a thing I cannot mention without horrour which is That this Person should be admitted immediately to the Possession of the Crown to do all these fine Matters for otherwise if he must stay till the Death of our Soveraign who now Reigns which I hope and pray will be many years possibly these delicate Bills may never pass nor he find hereafter the People in so good a humour to admit him to the Reversion which if it could be obtain'd as I think it impossible Politically yet the Possession must be kept by a standing Army and the next Successour cannot
Kings usurpt the place that is did reign injussu Populi and excercise the Government Tyrannically the People drove him out as all People in the World that have Property will do in the like Case except some extraordinary qualifications in the Prince preserve him for one Age and afterwards appointed in his room two Magistrates and made them Annual which two had the same Command as well in their Armies as in their Cities and did not make the least alteration besides excepting that they chose an Officer that was to perform the Kings Function in certain Sacrifices which Numa appointed to be performed by the King lest the People should think their Religion were changed This Officer was called Rex Sacrificulus If you are satisfied I will go on to the consideration of our Modern States Noble Ven. I am fully answered and besides am clearly of Opinion that no Government whether mixt Monarchy or Commonwealth can subsist without a Senate as well from the turbulent State of the Israelites under Moses till the Sanhedrin was instituted as from a certain Kingdom of the Vandals in Africa where after their Conquest of the Natives they appointed a Government consisting of a Prince and a Popular Assembly which latter within half a year beat the Kings brains out he having no bulwark of Nobility or Senate to defend him from them But I will divert you no longer Eng. Gent. Sir you are very right and we should have spoken something of that before if it had been the business of this Meeting to Discourse of the particular Models of Government but intending only to say so much of the Ancient Policy as to shew what Government in General is and upon what Basis it stands I think I have done it sufficiently to make way for the understanding of our own at least when I have said something of the Policies which are now extant and that with your favour I will do I shall need say little now of those Commonwealths which however they came by their Liberty either by Arms or Purchase are now much-what under the same kind of Policy as the Ancients were In Germany the Free Towns and many Princes make up the Body of a Commonwealth called the Empire of which the Emperour is Head this General Union hath its Diets or Parliaments where they are all represented and where all things concerning the Safety and Interest of Germany in General or that belong to Peace and War are Transacted these Diets never intermeddle with the particular Concerns or Policies of those Princes or States that make it up leaving to them their particular Soveraignties The several Imperial Cities or Commonwealths are divided into two kinds Lubeck's Law and Collen's Law which being the same exactly with the ancient Democracies and Optimacies I will say no more of them The Government of Swizerland and the Seven Provinces of the Low-Countries were made up in haste to Unite them against Persecution and Oppression and to help to defend themselves the better which they both have done very gallantly and successfully They seem to have taken their Pattern from the Grecians who when their Greatness began to decline and the several Tyrants who succeeded Alexander began to press hard upon them were forced to League themselves yet in severall Confederacies as that of the Etolians that of the Achaians c. for their mutual defence The Swisses consist of Thirteen Soveraignties some Cities which are most Aristocraticall and some Provinces which have but a Village for their head Township These are all Democracies and are Govern'd all by the Owners of Land who Assemble as our Free-Holders do at the County-Court These have their General Diets as in Germany The Government of the United Provinces has for its Foundation the Union of Vtrecht made in the beginning of their standing upon their Guard against the Cruelty and Oppression of the Spaniard and patcht up in haste and seeming to be compos'd only for necessity as a state of War has made Modern Statesmen Conjecture that it will not be very practicable in time of Peace and Security At their General Diet which is called the States General do intervene the Deputies of the Seven Provinces in what number their Principals please but all of them have but one Vote which are by consequence Seven and every one of the Seven hath a Negative so that nothing can pass without the Concurrence of the whole Seven Every one of these Provinces have a Counsel or Assembly of their own called the States Provincial who send and Instruct their Deputies to the States-General and perform other Offices belonging to the Peace and Quiet of the Province These Deputies to the States Provincial are sent by several Cities of which every Province consists and by the Nobility of the Province which hath one Voice only The Basis of the Government lies in these Cities which are every of them a distinct Soveraignty neither can the States of the Province much less the States General intrench in the least upon their Rights nor so much as intermeddle with the Government of their Cities or Administration of Justice but only treat of what concerns their mutual Defence and their Payments towards it Every one of these Cities is a Soveraignty governed by an Optimacy consisting of the chief Citizens which upon death are supplyed by new ones Elected by themselves these are called the Vrnuscaperie or Herne which Council has continued to Govern those Towns time out of mind even in the times of their Princes who were then the Soveraigns for without the consent of him or his Deputy called State-Holder nothing could be concluded in those days Since they have Instituted an artificial Minister of their own whom they still call State-Holder and make choice of him in their Provincial Assemblies and for Form sake defer something to him as the Approbation of their Skepen and other Magistrates and some other Matters This has been continued in the Province of Holland which is the chief Province in the Succession of the Princes of Orange and in the most of the others too The rest have likewise chosen some other of the House of Nassaw This Government so oddly set together and so compos'd of a State intended for a Monarchy and which as Almanacks Calculated for one Meridian are made in some sort to serve for another is by them continued in these several Aristocracies may last for a time till Peace and Security together with the abuse which is like to happen in the choice of the Herne when they shall Elect persons of small note into their Body upon Vacancies for Kindred or Relation rather than such as are of Estate and eminency or that otherwise abuse their power in the execution of it and then it is believed and reasonably enough that those People great in wealth and very acute in the knowledge of their own Interest will find out a better Form of Government or make themselves a prey to some great Neighbour-Prince in
a Regulation as this come in Debate amongst them the Parliament will reserve to it self the Approbation of the Great Officers as Chancellor Judges General Officers of an Army and the like and that such shall not have a settlement in those Charges till they are accordingly allowed of but may in the mean time exercise them As to particulars I shall always refer you to what the Parliament will judge fit to Order in the Case but if you have any thing to Object or to shew in general that some such Regulation as this cannot be effectual towards the putting our Distracted Country into better Order I shall think my self oblig'd to Answer you if you can have Patience to hear me and are not weary already as you may very well be Noble Ven. I shall certainly never be weary of such Discourse however I shall give you no further trouble in this matter for I am very fully satisfied that such Reformation if it could be compassed would not only Unite all Parties but make you very Flourishing at home and very Great abroad but have you any hopes that such a thing will ever come into Debate what do the Parliament-men say to it Eng. Gent. I never had any Discourse to this purpose either with any Lord or Member of the Commons house otherwise than as possibly some of these Notions might fall in at Ordinary Conversation For I do not intend to Intrench upon the Office of God to teach our Senatours Wisdom I have known some men so full of their own Notions that they went up and down sputtering them in every Mans Face they met some went to Great Men during our late troubles nay to the King himself to offer their Expedients from Revelation Two Men I was acquainted with of which one had an Invention to reconcile differences in Religion the other had a project for a Bank of Lands to lye as a Security for summs of Money lent both these were Persons of Great Parts and Fancy but yet so troublesome at all Times and in all Companies that I have often been forced to repeat an Excellent Proverb of your Country God deliver me from a man that has but one business and I assure you there is no Mans Reputation that I envy less than I do that of such Persons and therefore you may please to believe that I have not imitated them in scattering these Notions nor can I Prophesie whether any such Apprehensions as these will ever come into the Heads of those men who are our true Physitians But yet to answer your Question and give you my Conjecture I believe that we are not Ripe yet for any great Reform not only because we are a very Debauch'd People I do not only mean that we are given to Whoring Drinking Gaming and Idleness but chiefly that we have a Politique Debauch which is a neglect of all things that concern the publick welfare and a setting up our own private Interest against it I say this is not all for then the Polity of no Country could be Redrest For every Commonwealth that is out of order has ever all these Debauches we speak of as Consequences of their loose State But there are two other Considerations which induce me to fear that our Cure is not yet near The first is because most of the Wise and Grave Men of this Kingdom are very silent and will not open their Budget upon any terms and although they dislike the present Condition we are in as much as any Men and see the Precipice it leads us to yet will never open their Mouths to prescribe a Cure but being asked what they would advise give a shrug like your Country-men There was a very considerable Gentleman as most in England both for Birth Parts and Estate who being a Member of the Parliament that was called 1640. continued all the War with them and by his Wisdom and Eloquence which were both very great promoted very much their Affairs When the Factions began between the Presbyters and Independents he joyned Cordially with the latter so far as to give his Affirmative to the Vote of No Addresses that is to an Order made in the House of Commons to send no more Messages to the King nor to receive any from him Afterwards when an Assault was made upon the House by the Army and divers of the Members taken violently away and Secluded he disliking it though he were none of them voluntarily absented himself and continued retired being exceedingly averse to a Democratical Government which was then declared for till Cromwell's Usurpation and being infinitely courted by him absolutely refused to accept of any Employment under him or to give him the least Counsel When Cromwell was dead and a Parliament called by his Son or rather by the Army the chief Officers of which did from the beginning whisper into the Ears of the Leading Members that if they could make an honest Government they should be stood by as the Word then was by the Army This Gentleman at that time neither would be Elected into that Parliament nor give the least Advice to any other Person that was but kept himself still upon the Reserve Insomuch that it was generally believed that although he had ever been opposite to the late King 's coming to the Government again though upon Propositions yet he might hanker after the Restoration of His Majesty that now is But that Apprehension appeared groundless when it came to the pinch for being consulted as an Oracle by the then General Monk whether he should restore the Monarchy again or no would make no Answer nor give him the least Advice and de facto hath ever since kept himself from Publick Business although upon the Banishment of my Lord of Clarendon he was visited by one of the Greatest Persons in England and one in as much Esteem with His Majesty as any whatsoever and desired to accept of some great Employment near the King which he absolutely refusing the same Person not a Stranger to him but well known by him begged of him to give his Advice how His Majesty who desired nothing more than to unite all his People together and repair the Breaches which the Civil War had caused now my Lord Clarendon was gone who by his Counsels kept those Wounds open might perform that Honourable and Gracious Work but still this Gentleman made his Excuses And in short neither then nor at any time before or after excepting when he sate in the Long Parliament of the Year 40. neither during the distracted Times nor since His Majesty's Return when they seemed more reposed would ever be brought either by any private intimate Friend or by any Person in Publick Employment to give the least Judgment of our Affairs or the least Counsel to mend them though he was not shye of declaring his dislike of Matters as they went And yet this Gentleman was not only by repute and esteem a wise Man but was really so as it