Evidence And 3. Since you pronounce it Impiety to say that God hath not furnished Mankind with competent Means for the promoting his own Honour in the World and the Good of Souls Give me leave to ask you a Question or two 1. Can any one be saved without imbracing the one only true Religion 2. Were any of the Americans of that one only true Religion when the Europeans first came amongst them 3. Whether any of the Americans before the Christians came amongst them had offended in rejecting the true Religion tendred with sufficient Evidence When you have thought upon and fairly answered these Questions you will be sitter to determine how competent a Judg Man is what is sufficient Evidence who do offend in not being of the true Religion and what Punishments they are liable to for it But me-thinks here where you spend almost a whole Page upon the Crime of rejecting the true Religion duly tendred and the Punishment that is justly due to it from the Magistrate you forget your self and the Foundation of your Plea for Force which is that it is necessary which you are so far from proving it to be in this case of punishing the Offence of rejecting the true Religion that in this very page you distinguished it from what is necessary where you tell us Your Design does rather oblige you to consider how long Men may need Punishment than how long it may be just to punish them So that though they offend yet if they do not need Punishment the Magistrate cannot use it if you ground as you say you do the Lawfulness of Force for promoting the true Religion upon the Necessity of it Nor can you say that by his Commission from the Law of Nature of doing Good the Magistrate besides reducing his wandring Subjects out of the wrong into the right Way is appointed also to be the Avenger of God's Wrath on Unbelievers or those that err in Matters of Religion This at least you thought not fit to own in the first Draught of your Scheme for I do not remember in all your Argument considered one word of Crime or Punishment nay in writing this second Treatise you were so shy of owning any thing of Punishment that to my remembrance you scrupulously avoided the use of that word till you came to this place and always where the repeating my Words did not oblige you to it carefully used the term of Penalties for it as any one may observe who reads the preceding part of this Letter of yours which I am now examining And you were so nice in the point that three or four Leaves backwards where I say By your Rule Dissenters must be punished you mend it and say Or if I please subjected to moderate Penalties But here when the Inquiry How long Force was to be continued on Men shewed the Absurdity of that Pretence that they were to be punished on without end to make them consider rather than part with your beloved Force you open the matter a little father and profess directly the punishing Men for their Religion For tho you do all you can to cover it under the name of rejecting the true Religion duly proposed yet it is in truth no more but being of a Religion different from yours that you would have them punished for for all that the Author pleads for and you can oppose in writing against him is Toleration of Religion Your Scheme therefore being thus mended your Hypothesis enlarged being of a different Religion from the National found criminal and Punishments found justly to belong to it it is to be hoped that in good time your Punishments may grow too and be advanced to all those Degrees you in the beginning condemned when having considered a little farther you cannot miss finding that the Obstinacy of the Criminals does not lessen their Crime and therefore Justice will require severer Execution to be done upon them But you tell us here Because your Design does rather oblige you to consider how long Men may need Punishment than how long it may be just to punish them therefore you shall add That as long as Men refuse to imbrace the true Religion so long Penalties are necessary for them to dispose them to consider and imbrace it And that therefore as Justice allows so Charity requires that they be kept subject to Penalties till they imbrace the true Religion Let us therefore see the Consistency of this with other parts of your Hypothesis and examine it a little by them Your Doctrine is That where Intreaties and Admonitions upon trial do not prevail Punishments are to be used but they must be moderate Moderate Punishments have been tried and they prevail not What now is to be done Are not greater to be used No For what reason Because those whom moderate Penalties will not prevail on being desperately perverse and obstinate Remedies are not to be provided for the Incurable as you tell us in the Page immediately preceding Moderate Punishments have been tried upon a Man once and again and a third time but prevail not at all make no Impression they are repeated as many times more but are still found ineffectual Pray tell me a reason why such a Man is concluded so desperately perverse and obstinate that greater Degrees will not work upon him but yet not so desperately perverse and obstinate but that the same Degrees repeated may work upon him I will not urge here that this is to pretend to know the just Degree of Punishment that will or will not work on any one which I should imagine a pretty intricate Business But this I have to say that if you can think it reasonable and useful to continue a Man several Years nay his whole Life under the same repeated Punishments without going any higher though they work not at all because 't is possible sometime or other they may work on him why is it not as reasonable and useful I am sure it is much more justifiable and charitable to leave him all his Life under the Means which all agree God has appointed without going any higher because 't is not impossible that some time or other Preaching and a Word spoken in due season may work upon him For why you should despair of the Success of Preaching and Perswasion upon a fruitless Trial and thereupon think your self authorized to use Force and yet not so despair of the Success of moderate Force as after Years of fruitless Trial to continue it on and not to proceed to higher Degrees of Punishment you are concerned for the vindication of your System to shew a Reason I mention the Trial of Preaching and Perswasion to shew the Unreasonableness of your Hypothesis supposing such a Trial made not that in yours or the common Method there is or can be a fair Trial made what Preaching and Perswasion can do For care is taken by Punishments and ill Treatment to indispose and turn away Mens Minds and to add
which without being forced they would not consider To bring Men to that Consideration which nothing else but Force besides the extraordinary Grace of God would bring them to To make Men good Christians To make Men receive Instruction To cure their Aversion to the true Religion To bring Men to consider and examine the Controversies which they are bound to consider and examine i. e. those wherein they cannot err without dishonouring God and endangering their own and other Mens eternal Salvation To weigh Matters of Religion carefully and impartially To bring Men to the true Religion and to Salvation That then Force is not applied to all the Subjects for these Ends I think you will not deny These are the Ends for which you tell us in the Places quoted that Force is to be used in Matters of Religion 'T is by its Vsefulness and Necessity to those Ends that you tell us the Magistrate is authorized and obliged to use Force in Matters of 〈◊〉 Now if all these Ends be not attained by a bare 〈◊〉 and yet if by a bare Conformity Men are wholly exempt from all Force and Penalties in Matters of Religion will you say that for these Ends Force is applied to all the Magistrate's Subjects If you will I must send you to my Pagans and 〈◊〉 for a little Conscience and Modesty If you 〈◊〉 Force 〈◊〉 not 〈◊〉 to all for these Ends notwithstanding any Laws obliging all to Conformity you must also confess 〈◊〉 what you say concerning the Laws being general is nothing to the Purpose since all that are under Penalties for not 〈◊〉 are not under any Penalties for Ignorance Irreligion or the want of those Ends for which you say Penalties are useful and necessary You go on And therefore if such Persons profane the Sacrament to keep their Places or to obtain Licences to sell Ale this is an horrible Wickedness I 〈◊〉 them not But it is their own and they alone must answer for it Yes and those who threatned poor ignorant and irreligious Ale-sellers whose Livelihood it was to take away their Licences if they did not conform and receive the Sacrament may be thought perhaps to have something to answer for You add But it is very unjust to impute it to those who make such Laws and use such Force or to say that they prostitute holy things and drive Men to profane them Nor is it just to insinuate in your Answer as if that had been said which was not But if it be true that a poor ignorant loose irreligious Wretch should be threatned to be turn'd out of his Calling and Livelihood if he would not take the Sacrament May it not be said these holy things have been so low prostituted And if this be not profaning them pray tell me what is This I think may be said without Injustice to any body that it does not appear that those who make strict Laws for Conformity and take no Care to have it examined upon what Grounds Men conform are not very much concern'd that Mens Understandings should be convinced And though you go on to say that they design by their Laws to do what lies in them to make Men good Christians That will scarce be believed if what you say be true that Force is necessary to bring those who cannot be otherwise brought to it to study the true Religion with such Care and Diligence as they might and ought to use and with an honest Mind And yet we see a great part or any of those who are ignorant in the true Religion have no such Force applied to them especially since you tell us in the same Place that no Man ever studied the true Religion with such Care and Diligence as he might and ought to use and with an honest Mind but he was convinced of the Truth of it If then Force and Penalties can produce that Study Care Diligence and honest Mind which will produce Knowledg and Conviction and that as you say in the following Words make good Men I ask you if there be found in the Communion of the Church exempt from Force upon the Account of Religion ignorant irreligious ill Men and that to speak moderately not in great Disproportion fewer than amongst the Nonconformists will you believe your self when you say the Magistrates do by their Laws all that in them lies to make them good Christians when they use not that Force to them which you not I say is necessary and that they are where it is necessary obliged to use And therefore I give you leave to repeat again the Words you subjoin here But if after all they i. e. the Magistrates can do wicked and godless Men will still resolve to be so they will be so and I know not who but God Almighty can help it But this being spoken of Conformists on whom the Magistrates lay no Penalties use no Force for Religion give me leave to mind you of the Ingenuity of one of my Pagans or Mahometans You tell us That the Usefulness of Force to make Scholars learn authorizes Schoolmasters to use it And would you not think a Schoolmaster discharged his Duty well and had a great Care of their Learning who used his Rod only to bring Boys to School but if they come there once a Week whether they slept or only minded their Play never examined what Proficiency they made or used the Rod to make them study and learn tho they would not apply themselves without it But to shew you how much you your self are in earnest for the Salvation of Souls in this your Method I shall set down what I said p. 61. of my Letter on that Subject and what you answer p. 68. of yours L. 2. p. 61. You speak of it here as the most deplorable Condition imaginable that Men should be left to themselves and not be forced to consider and examine the Grounds of their Religion and search impartially and diligently after the Truth This you make the great Miscarriage of Mankind and for this you seem solicitous all through your Treatise to find out a Remedy and there is scarce a Leaf wherein you do not offer yours But what if after all now you should be found to prevaricate Men have contrived to themselves say you a great Variety of Religions 'T is granted They seek not the Truth in this matter with that Application of Mind and that freedom of Judgment which is requisite 'T is confessed All the false Religions now on foot in the World have taken their rise from the slight and partial Consideration which Men have contented themselves with in searching after the true and Men take them up and persist in them for want of due Examination Be it so There is need of a Remedy for this and I have found one whose Success cannot be questioned Very well What is it Let us hear it Why Dissenters must be punished Can any body that
understand me to say that he sins in doing it and lays himself open to divine Vengeance by it And can he be encouraged to this by hearing what others may gain by what without Repentance must cost him so dear Here your Men of Art will do well to be at hand again For it may be seasonable for you to appeal to them whether the nature of your Discourse will allow you to descend to shew ` the Magistrate the bounds of his Authority and warn him of ` the Injury he does if he misapplies his Power You say the Question there debated is Whether the Magistrate has any Right or Authority to use Force for promoting the True Religion which plainly supposes the Vnlawfulness and Injustice of using Force to promote a 〈◊〉 Religion as granted on both sides Neither is that the Question in debate nor if it were does it suppose what you pretend But the Question in debate is as you put it Whether any body has a Right to use Force in Matters of Religion You say indeed The Magistrate has to bring Men to the True Religion If thereupon you think the Magistrate has none to bring Men to a false Religion whatever your Men of Art may think 't is probable other Men would not have thought it to have been besides the nature of your Discourse to have warn'd the Magistrate that he should consider well and impartially examine the Grounds of his Religion before he use any Force to bring Men to it This is of such moment to Mens temporal and eternal Interests that it might well deserve some particular 〈◊〉 addressed to the Magistrate who might as much need to be put in mind of impartial Examination as other People And it might whatever your Men of Art may allow be justly expected from you who think it no Derivation from the Rules of Art to tell the Subjects that they must submit to the Penalties laid on them or else fall under the Sword of the Magistrate which how true soever will hardly by any body be sound to be much more to your purpose in this Discourse than it would have been to have told the Magistrate of what ill consequence it would be to him and his People if he misused his Power and warn'd him to be cautious in the Use of it But not a word that way Nay even where you mention the account he shall give for so doing it is still to satisfy the Subjects that they are well provided for and not left unfurnish'd of the Means of Salvation by the right God has put into the Magistrate's hands to use his Power to bring them to the True Religion and therefore they ought to be well content because if the Magistrate misapply it the Great Judg will punish him for it Look Sir and see whether what you say any where of the Magistrate's misuse of his Power have any other Tendency And then I appeal to the sober Reader whether if you had been as much concern'd for the Bounding as for the Exercise of Force in the Magistrates hands you would not have spoke of it 〈◊〉 another manner The next thing you say is that the Question being Whether the Magistrate has any Right to use Force to bring Men to the True Religion supposes the Vnlawfulness of using Force to promote a False Religion as granted on both sides which is so far from true that I suppose quite the contrary viz. That if the Magistrate has a Right to use Force to promote the True he must have a Right to use Force to promote his own Religion and that for Reasons I have given you elsewhere But the Supposition of a Supposition serves to excuse you from speaking any thing directly of setting Bounds to the Magistrate's Power or telling him his Duty in that point though you are very frequent in mentioning the Obligation he is under that Men should not want the Assistance of his Force and how answerable he is if any body miscarry for want of it though there be not the least Whisper of any care to be taken that no body be 〈◊〉 by it And now I recollect my self I think your Method would not allow it For if you should have put the Magistrate upon Examining it would have suppos'd him as liable to Error as other Men whereas to secure the Magistrate's acting right upon your Foundation of never using Force but for the True Religion I see no help for it but either he or you who are to licence him must be got past the State of Examination into that of certain Knowledg and Infallibility Indeed as you say you tell the Magistrate that the Power you ascribe to him in reference to Religion is given him to bring Men not to his own but to the True Religion But do you put him upon a severe and impartial Examination Which amongst the many False is the one only True Religion he must use Force to bring his Subjects to that he may not mistake and misapply his Power in a Business of that Consequence Not a Syllable of this Do you then tell him which it is he must take without Examination and promote with Force whether that of England France or Denmark This methinks is as much as the Pope with all his Infallibility could require of Princes And yet what is it less than this you do when you suppose the Religion of the Church of England to be the only True and upon this your Supposition tell the Magistrate it is his Duty by Force to bring Men to it without ever putting him upon Examining or suffering him or any body else to question whether it be the only True Religion or no For if you will stick to what you in another place say That it is enough to suppose that there is one True Religion and but one and that that Religion may be known by those who profess it What Authority will this Knowableness of the True Religion give to the King of England more than to the King of France to use Force if he does not actually know the Religion he professes to be the True or to the Magistrate more than the Subject if he has not examin'd the Grounds of his Religion But if He believes you when you tell him your Religion is the True all is well he has Authority enough to use Force and he need not examine any farther If this were not the case why you should not be careful to prepare a little Advice to make the Magistrate examine as well as you are sollicitous to provide Force to make the Subject examine will require the Skill of a Man of Art to discover Whether you are not of the Number of those Men I there mention'd for that there have been such Men in the World Instances might be given one may doubt srom your Principles For if upon a Supposition that yours is the True Religion you can give Authority to the Magistrate to 〈◊〉 Penalties on all his Subjects that
your turn to begin with Warnings and Threats of Penalties to be inflicted on those who do not reâ—…orm but continue to do that which you think they fail in To allow of Impunity to the Innocent or the Opportunity of Amendment to those who would avoid the Penalties are Formalities not worth your Notice You are for a shorter and surer Way Take a whole Tribe and punish them at all Adventures whether guilty or no of the Miscariage which you would have amended or without so much as telling them what it is you would have them do but leaving them to find it out if they can All these Absurdities are contained in your Way of proceding And are impossible to be avoided by any one who will punish Dissenters and only Dissenters to make them consider and weigh the Grounds of their Religion and impartially examine whether it be true or no and upon what Grounds they took it up that so they may find and 〈◊〉 ace the 〈◊〉 that must save them These Absurdities I fear must be remov'd before any Magistrates will find your Method practicable I having said Your Method is not altogether unlike the Plea made use of to excuse the late barbarous usage of the Protestants in France from being a Persecution for Religion viz. That it was not a Punishment for Religion but for disobeying the King's Laws which requir'd them to come to Mass So by your Rule Diâ—…enters must be punish'd not for the Religion they have imbraced and the Religion they have rejected In answer to this in the next Paragraph you take abundance of pains to prove that the King of France's Laws that require going to Mass are no Laws You were best to say so on the other side of the Water 'T is sure the Punishments were Punishments and the Dragooning was Dragooning And if you think that Plea excus'd them not I am of your Mind But nevertheless am of Opinion as I was that it will prove as good a Plea as yours Which is what you argue against in your next Paragraph in the Words following wherein you examine the likeness of your new Method to this plea. You tell me I say by your Rule the Diâ—…enters ' from the true Religion for you speak of no other must be punish'd or if I please subjected to moderate Penaltics such as shall make them uneasy but â—…uber destroy or undo them For what Indeed I thought by your 〈◊〉 Book you meant not for their Religion but to make them consider but here you ask me where it is you say that Dissenters from the true Religion are not to be punish'd for their Religion ` So then it seems in your Opinion now Dissenters from the true Religion are to be punish'd or as you are pleased to mollify the Expression for the thing is the same subjected to moderate Penalties for their Religion I think I shall not need to prove to any one but one of your nice Stile that the Execution of Penal Laws let the Penalties be great or small are Punishments If therefore the Religion of Dissenters from the true be a Fault to be punish'd by the Magistrate Who is to judg who are guilty of that Fault Must it be the Ma istrate every-where or the Magisrate in some Countries and not in others or the Magistrate no-where If the Magistrate no-where is to be judg who are Dissenters from the true Religion he can no-where punish them If he be to be every-where Judg then the King of France or the Great Turk must punish those whom they judg Dissenters from the true Religion as well as other Potentates If some Magistrates have a right to judg and others not That yet I fear how absurd soever it be should I grant it will not do your business For besides that They will hardly agree to make you their infallible Umpire in the case to determine who of them have and who have not this right to judg which is the True Religion or if they should and you should declare the King of England had that Right viz. whilst he complied to support the Orthodoxy Ecclesiastical Polity and those Ceremonies which you approve of But that the King of France and the Great Turk had it not and so could have no right to use Force on those they judg'd Dissenters from the true Religion You ought to bethink your self what you will reply to one that should use your own Words If such a degree of outward Force as has been mentioned be really of great and even necessary use for the advancing of the True Religion and Salvation of Souls then it must be acknowledg'd that in France and Turky c. there is a right somewhere to use it for the advancing those ends unless we will say what without Impiety cannot be said that the wise and benign Disposer and Governour of all things has not in France and Turky furnish'd Mankind with competent Means for the promoting his own Honour and the good of Souls You go on and tell us they are to be punish'd not for following the Light of their own Reason nor for obeying the Dictates of their own Conâ—…lences but rather for the contrary For the Light of their own Reason and the Dictates of their own Conscience if their Reason and their Consciences were not perverted and abused would undoubtedly lead them to the same thing to which the Method you speak of is designed to bring them i. e. to the same thing to which your Reason and your Conscience leads you For if you were to argue with a Papist or a Presbyterian in the case What privilege have you to tell him that his Reason and Conscience is perverted more than he has to tell you that yours is so Unless it be this insupportable Presumption that your Reason and Conscience ought to be the Measure of all Reason and Conscience in all others which how you can claim without pretending to Infallibility is not easy to discern The Diversion you give your self about the likeness and unlikeness of those two Pleas I shall not trouble my self with since when your Fit of Mirth was over you were forced to confess That as I have made your Plea for you you think there is no considerable difference as to the Fairness of them excepting what arises from the different degrees of Punishment in the French Discipline and your Method But if the French Plea be not true and that which I make to be yours be not yours I must beg your pardon Sir I did not think it was your Opinion nor do I yet remember that you any where said in your A. c. that Men were to be punish'd for their Religion but that it was purely to make Men examine the Religion they had imbraced and the Religion that they had rejected And if that were of moment I should think my self sufficiently justified for this my Mistake by what you say in your Argument c. from p. 6 to 12.
the Atheists as you call them who do so give the People up in every Country to the coactive Force of the Magistrate to be employed for the assisting the Minisâ—… of his Religion And King Lewis of good right comes in with his Dragoons for 't is not much doubted that he as strongly believed his Popish Priests and Jesuits to be the Ministry which our Lord appointed as either King Charles or King James the 2d believed that of the Church of England to be so And of what use such an exercise of the coactive Power of all Magistrates is to the People or to the true Religion you are concerned to shew But 't is you know but to tell me I only trifâ—…e and this is all answered What in other places you tell us is to make Men hear consider study imbrace and bring Men to the true Religion you here do very well to tell us is to assist the Ministry and to that 't is true common Experience discovers the Magistrate's coactive Force to be useful and necessary viz. to those who taking the Reward but not over-busying themselves in the care of Souls find it for their Ease that the Magistrates coactive Power should supply their want of Pastoral Care and be made use of to bring those into an outward Consormity to the National Church whom either for want of Ability they cannot or want of due and friendly Application join'd with an exemplary Life they never so much as endeavoured to prevail on heartily to embrace it That there may be such Neglects in the best-constituted National Church in the World the Complaints of a very knowing Bishop of our Church in a late Discourse of the PASTORAL CARE is too plain an Evidence Without so great an Authority I should scarce have ventured though it lay just in my way to have taken notice of what is so visible that it is in every one's Mouth for fear you should have told me again that I made my self an occasion to shew my Good-will toward the Clergy For you will not I suppose suspect that eminent Prelate to have any Ill-will to them If this were not so that some were negligent I imagine the Preachers of the True Religion which lies as you tell us so obvious and exposed as to be easily distinguish'd from the False would need or desire no other Assistance from the Magistrates coactive Power but what should be directed against the Irregularity of Mens Lives their Lusts being that alone as you tell us that makes Force necessary to assist the true Religion which were it not for our depraved Nature would by its Light and Reasonableness have the advantage against all salâ—…e Religions You tell us too That the Magistrate may impose Creeds and Ceremonies indeed you say sound Creeds and decent Ceremonies but that helps not your Cause for who must be Judg of that sound and that decent If the Imposer then those Words signify nothing at all but that the Magistrate may impose those Creeds and Ceremonies which he thinks sound and decent which is in effect such as he thinks â—…t Indeed you telling us a little above in the same page that it is a Vice not to worship God in Ways prescribed by those to whom God has left the ordering of such Matters you seem to make other Judges of what is sound and decent and the Magistrate but the Executor of their Decrees with the Assistance of his coactive Power A pretty Foundation to establish Creeds and Ceremonies on that God has lest the ordering of them to those who cannot impose them and the imposing of them to those who cannot order them But still the same Difficulty returns for after they have prescribed must the Magistrate judg them to be sound and decent or must he impose them though he judg them not sound or decent If he must judg them so himself we are but where we were if he must impose them when prescribed though he judg them not sound nor decent 't is a pretty sort of Drudgery is put on the Magistrate And how far is this short of implicite Faith But if he must not judg what is sound and decent he must judg at least who are those to whom God has left the ordering of such Matters and then the King of France is ready again with his Dragoons for the sound Doctrine and decent Ceremonies of his Prescribers in the Council of Trent and that upon this ground with as good right as any other has for the Prescriptions of any others Do not mistake me again Sir I do not say he judges as right but I do say that whilst he judges the Council of Trent or the Clergy of Rome to be those to whom God has left the ordering of those Matters he has as much right to follow their Decrees as any other to sollow the Judgment of any other Set of mortal Men whom he believes to be so But whoever is to be Judg of what is sound or decent in the case I ask Of what Vse and Necessity is it to impose Creeds and Ceremonies for that Vse and Necâ—…ssuy iâ—… all the Commission you can sind the Magistrate hath to use his coactive Power to impose them 1. Of what Use and Necessity is it among Christians that own the Scripture to be the Word of God and Rule os Faith to make and impose a Creed What Commission for this hath the Magistrate from the Law of Nature God hath given a Revelation that contains in it all things necessary to Salvation and of this his People are all perswadâ—…d What Necessity now is there How does their Good require it that the Magistrate should single out as he thinks sit any number of those Truths as more necessary to Salvation than the rest if God himself has not done it 2. But next are these Creeds in the Words of the Scripture or not If they are they are certainly sound as containing nothing but Truth in them and so they were before as they lay in the Scripture But thus though they contain nothing but sound Truths yet they may be imperfect and so unsound Rules of Faith since they may require more or less than God requires to be believed as necessary to Salvation For what greater necessity I pray is there that a Man should believe that Christ suffered under Pontius Pilate than that he was born at Bethlehem of Judah Both are certainly true and no Christian doubts of either But how comes one to be made an Article of Faith and imposed by the Magistrate as necessary to Salvation for otherwise there can be no necessity of Imposition and the other not Do not mistake me here as if I would lay by that Summary of the Christian Religion which is contained in that which is called the Apostles Creed which though no body who examines the Matter will have reason to conclude of the Apostles compiling yet is certainly of reverend Antiquity and ought still to be preserved in
the same Reason they have an Aversion to Penalties These therefore if they be opposed one to another and Penalties be so laid that Men must quit their Lusts and heartily imbrace the true Religion or else indure the Penalties there may be some Efficacy in Force towards bringing Men to the true Religion But if there be no Opposition between an outward Profession of the true Religion and Mens Lusts Penalties laid on Men till they outwardly conform are not a Remedy laid to the Disease Punishments so applied have no Opposition to Mens Lusts nor from thence can be expected any Cure Men must be driven from their Aversion to the true Religion by Penalties they have a greater Aversion to This is all the Operation of Force But if by getting into the Communion of the National Church they can avoid the Penalties and yet retain their natural Corruption and Aversion to the true Religion what Remedy is there to the Disease by Penalties so applied You would you say have Men made uneasy This no doubt will work on Men and make them indeavour to get out of this uneasy State as soon as they can But it will always be by that way wherein they can be most easy for 't is the Uneasiness alone they fly from and therefore they will not exchange one Uneasiness for another not for a greater nor an equal nor any at all if they can help it If therefore it be so uneasy for Men to mortify their Lusts as you tell us which the true Religion requires of them if they imbrace it in earnest But which outward Conformity to the true Religion or any National Church does not require what need or use is there of Force applied so that it meets not at all with Mens Lusts or Aversion to the true Religion but leaves them the liberty of a quiet Injoyment of them free from Force and Penalties in a legal and approved Consormity Is a Man negligent of his Soul and will not be brought to consider obstinate and will not imbrace the Truth Is he careless and will not be at the Pains to examine Matters of Religion corrupt and will not part with his Lusts which are dearer to him than his First-born 'T is but owning the National Profession and he may be so still If he conform the Magistrate has done punishing he is a Son of the Church and need not consider any thing farther for fear of Penalties they are removed and all is well So that at last there neither being an absolute Necessity that Aversion to the true Religion should in all Men be cured nor the Magistrate being a competent Judg who have this Stone of Aversion or who have it to that degree as to need Force to cure it or in whom it is curable were Force a proper Remedy as it is not nor having any Commission to use it notwithstanding what you have answered It is still not only as but more reasonable for the Magistrate upon pretence of its Usefulness or Necessity to cut any one for the Stone without his own Consent than to use Force your way to cure him of Aversion to the true Religion To my Question In whose Hands this Right we were a little above speaking of was in Turkey Persia or China you tell me You answer roundly and plainly in the Hands of the Soveraign to use convenient Penalties for the promoting the true Religion I will not trouble you here with a Question you will meet with elsewhere Who in these Countries must be Judg of the true Religion But I will ask Whether you or any wise Man would have put a Right of using Force into a Mahumetan or Pagan Prince's Hand for the promoting of Christianity which of my Pagans or Mahumetans would have done otherwise But God you say has done it and you make it good by telling me in the following Words If this startle me then you must tell me farther that you look upon the supream Power to be the same all the World over in what Hands soever it is placed and this Right to be contained in it And if those that have it do not use it as they ought but instead of promoting true Religion by proper Penalties set themselves to enforce Mahumetanism or Paganism or any other false Religion All that can or that needs be said to the matter is that God will one Day call them to an Account for the Neglect of their Duty for the Dishonour they do to him and for the Souls that perish by their Fault Your taking this Right to be a part of the supream Power of all Civil Sovereigns which is the thing in Question is not as I take it proving it to be so But let us take it so for once what then is your Answer God will one Day call those Sovereigns to an Account for the Neglect of their Duty The Question is not What God will do with the Soveraigns who have neglected their Duty but how Mankind is furnished with your competent Means for the promoting of God's Honour in the World and the good of Souls in Countries where the Soveraign is of a wrong Religion For there how clearly soever the Right of using it be in the Soveraign yet as long as he uses not Force to bring his Subjects to the true Religion they are destitute of your competent means For I imagine you do not make the Right to use that Force but the actual Application of it by Penal Laws to be your useful and necessary Means For if you think the bare having that Right be enough if that be your sufficient Means without the actual Use of Force we readily allow it you And as I tell you elsewhere I see not then what need you had of Miracles to supply the Want of the Magistrates Assistance till Christianity was supported and incouraged by the Laws of the Empire For by your own Rule the Magistrates of the World during the three first Centuries after the publishing the Christian Religion had the same Right if that had been enough that they have now in Turkey Persia or China That this is all that can be said in this matter I easily grant you but that it is all that needs be said to make good your Doctrine I must beg your Pardon In the same Sentence wherein you tell me I should have added Necessity to Vsefulness I call it necessary Usefulness which I imagine is not much different But that with the following Words wherein my Argument lay had the ill luck to be overseen but if you please to take my Argument as I have now again laid it before you it will serve my turn In your next Paragraph you tell me that what is said by me is with the same Ingenuity I have used in other places my Words in that Place are these The Author having indeavoured to shew that no Body at all of any Rank or Condition had any Power to punish torment or use any Man ill
for Matter of Religion You tell us you do not yet understand why Clergymen are not as capable of such Power as other Men Which Words of mine containing in them nothing but true matter of Fact give you no Reason to tax my Ingenuity Nor will what you alledg make it otherwise than such Power for if the Power you there speak of were externally coactive Power is not that the same Power the Author was speaking of made use of to those Ends he mentions of tormenting and punishing And do not you own that those who have that Power ought to punish those who offend in rejecting the true Religion As to the remaining Part of that Paragraph I shall leave the Reader to judg whether I sought any occasion so much as to name the Clergy or whether the itching of your Fingers to be handling the Rod guided not your Pen to what was nothing to the Purpose For the Author had not said any thing so much as tending to exclude the Clergy from secular Imployments but only if you will take your own Report of it that no Ecclesiastical Officer as such has any externally coactive Power whereupon you cry out that you do not yet understand why Ecclesiasticks or Clergymen are not as capable of such Power as other Men. Had you stood to be Constable of your Parish or of the Hundred you might have had Cause to vindicate thus your Capacity if Orders had been objected to you or if your Aim be at a Justice of the Peace or Lord Chief Justice of England much more However you must be allowed to be a Man of forecast in clear-ing the way to secular Power if you know your self or any of your Friends desirous of it Otherwise I confess you have Reason to be on this occasion a little out of Humour as you are for bringing this matter in Question so wholly out of Season Nor will I fear the ill-sitted Excuse you bring give your self or one who consults the Places in both yours and the Author's Letter a much better Opinion of it However I cannot but thank you for your wonted Ingenuity in saying that it seems I wanted an Occasion to shew my good Will to the Clergy and so I made my self one And to find more Work for the excellent Gift you have this way I desire you to read over that Paragraph of mine again and tell me whether you can find any thing said in it not true Any Advice in it that you your sâ—…lf would disown any thing that any worthy Clergyman that adorns his Function is concerned in And when you have set it down in my Words the World shall be Judg whether I have shewed any ill Will to the Clergy Till then I may take the Liberty to own that I am more a Friend to them and their Calling than those amongst them who shew their Forwardness to leave the Word of God to serve other Employments The Office of a Minister of the Gospel requires so the whole Man that the very looking after their Poor was by the joint Voice of the the twelve Apostles called leaving the Word of God and serving of Tables But if you think no Mens Faults can be spoken of without ill Will you will make a very ill Prcacher Or if you think this to be so only in speaking of Mistakes in any of the Clergy there must be in your Opinion something peculiar in their Case that makes it so much a Fault to mention any of theirs which I must be pardoned for since I was not aware of it And there will want but a little cool Reflection to convince you that had not the present Church of England a greater Number in Proportion than possibly any other Age of the Church ever had of those who by their pious Lives and Labours in their Ministry adorn their Profession such busy Men as cannot be content to be Divines without being Lay-men too would so little keep up the Reputation which ought to distinguish the Clergy or preserve the Esteem due to a Holy i. e. a separate Order that no Body can shew greater good Will to them than by taking all Occasions to put a Stop to any Forwardness to be medling out of their Calling This I suppose made a learned Prelate of our Church out of Kindness to the Clergy mind them of their Stipulation and Duty in a late Treatise and tell them that the Pastoral Care is to be a Man's entire Business and to possess both his Thoughts and his Time Disc. of Past. Care p. 121. To your saying That the Magistrate may lay Penalties upon those who refuse to imbrace your Doctrine of the proper Ministers of Religion or are alienated from the Truth I answered God never gave the Magistrate an Authority to be Judg of Truth for another Man This you gâ—…ant but withal say That if the Magistrate knows the Truth though he has no Authority to judg of Truth for another Man yet he may be Judg whether other Men be alienated from the Truth or no and so may have Authority to lay some Penalties upon those whom he sees to be so to bring them to judg more sincerely for themselves For Example The Doctrine of the proper Ministers of Religion is that the three Creeds Nice Athanasius's and that commonly call'd the Apostles Creed ought to be thorowly received and believed As also that the Old and New Testament contain all things necessary to Salvation The one of these Doctrines a Papist Subject imbraces not and a Socinian the other What now is the Magistrate by your Commission to do He is to lay Penalties upon them and continue them How long Only till they conform i. e. till they profess they imbrace these Doctrines for true In which Case he does not judg of the Truth for other Men he only judges that other Men are alienated from the Truth Do you not now admire your own Subtilty and Acuteness I that cannot comprehend this tell you my dull Sense in the Case He that thinks another Man in an Error judges him as you phrase it alienated from the Truth and then judges of Truth and Falshood only for himself But if he lays any Penalty upon others which they are to lie under till they embrace for a Truth what he judges to be so he is then so far a Judg of Truth for those others This is what I think to judg of Truth for another means If you will tell me what else it signifies I am ready to learn You grant you say God never gave the Magistrate any Authority to be Judg of Truth for another Man and then add But how does it follow from thence that he cannot be Judg whether any Man be alienated from the Truth or no And I ask you Who ever said any such thing did follow from thence That which I say and which you ought to disprove is That whoever punishes others for not being of the Religion he
judges to be true judges of Truth for others But you prove that a Man may be Judg of Truth without having Authority to judg of it for other Men or to prescribe to them what they shall believe which you might have spared till you meet with some body that denies it But yet your proof of it is worth remembring Rectum say you est Index sui obliqui And certainly whoever does but know the Truth may easily judg whether other Men be alienated from it or no. But tho Rectum be Index sui obliqui yet a Man may be ignorant of that which is the right and may take Error for Truth The Truth of Religion when known shews what contradicts it is false but yet that Truth may be unknown to the Magistrate as well as to any other Man But you conclude I know not upon what ground as if the Magistrate could not miss it or were surer to find it than other Men. I suppose you are thus favourable only to the Magistrate of your own Profession as no doubt in Civility a Papist or a Presbyterian would be to those of his And then infer And therefore if the Magistrate knows the Truth though he has no Authority to judg of Truth for other Men yet he may be Judg whether other Men be alienated from the Truth or no. Without doubt who denies it him 'T is a Privilege that he and all Men have that when they know the Truth or believe the Truth or have embraced an Error for Truth they may judg whether other Men are alienated from it or no if those other Men own their Opinions in that matter You go on with your Inference And so may have Authority to lay some Penalties upon those whom he sees to be so Now Sir you go a little too fast This he cannot do without making himself Judg of Truth for them The Magistrate or any one may judg as much as he pleases of Mens Opinions and Errors he in that judges only for himself but as soon as he uses Force to bring them from their own to his Opinion he makes himself Judg of Truth for them let it be to bring them to judg more sincerely for themselves as you here call it or under what pretence or colour soever for that what you say is but a Pretence the very Expression discovers For does any one ever judg insincerely for himself that he needs Penalties to make him judg more sincerely for himself A Man may judg wrong for himself and may be known or thought to do so But who can either know or suppose another is not sincere in the Judgment he makes for himself or which is the same thing that any one knowingly puts a mixture of Falshood into the Judgment he makes For as speaking insincerely is to speak otherwise than one thinks let what he says be true or false so judging insincerely must be to judg otherwise than one thinks which I imagine is not very feasible But how improper soever it be to talk of judging insincerely for one's self it was better for you in that Place to say Penalties were to bring Men to judg more sincerely rather than to say more rightly or more truly for had you said the Magistrate might use Penalties to bring Men to judg more truly that very Word had plainly discovered that he made himself a Judg of Truth for them You therefore wisely chose to say what might best cover this Contradiction to your self whether it were Sense or no which perhaps whilst it sounded well every one would not stand to examine One thing give me leave here to observe to you which is That when you speak of the Entertainment Subjects are to give to Truth i. e. the true Religion you call it believing but this in the Magistrate you call knowing Now let me ask you Whether any Magistrate who laid Penalties on any who dissented from what he judged the true Religion or as you call it here were alienated from the Truth was or could be determined in his judging of that Truth by any Assurance greater than believing When you have resolved that you will then see to what purpose is all you have said here concerning the Magistrate's knowing the Truth which at last amounting to no more than the Assurance wherewith a Man certainly believes and receives a thing for true will put every Magistrate under the same if there be any Obligation to use Force whilst he believes his own Religion Besides if a Magistrate knows his Râ—…ligion to be true he is to use means not to make his People believe but know it also Knowledg of them if that be the way of entertaining the Truths of Religion being as necessary to the Subjects as the Magistrate I never heard yet of a Master of Mathematicks who had the care of informing others in those Truths who ever went about to make any one believe one of Euclid's Propositions The Pleasantness of your Answer notwithstanding what you say doth remain still the same for you making as is to be seen the Power of the Magistrate ORDAINED for the bringing Men to take such care as they ought of their Salvation the reason why it is every Man's Interest to vest this Power in the Magistrate must suppose this Power so ordained before the People vested it or else it could not be an Argument for their vesting it in the Magistrate For if you had not here built upon your fundamental Supposition that this Power of the Maâ—…istrate is ordained by God to that end the proper and intelligible way of expressing your meaning had not been to say as you do As the Power of the Magistrate is ordained for bringing c. so if we suppose this POWER vested in the Magistrate by the People in which way of speaking this Power of the Magistrate is evidently supposed already ordained But a clear way of making your meaning understood had been to say That for the People to ordain such a Power of the Magistrate or to vest such a Power in the Magistrate which is the same thing was their true Interest but whether it were your Meaning or your Expression that was guilty of the Absurdity I shall leave it with the Reader As to the other pleasant thing of your Answer it will still appear by barely reciting it the pleasant thing I charge on you is that you say That the Power of the Magistrate is to bring Men to such a care of their Salvation that they may not blindly leave it to the choice of any Person or their own Lusts or Passions to prescribe to them what Faith or Worship they shall imbrace and yet that 't is their best course to vest a Power in the Magistrate liable to the same Lusts and Passions as themselves to chuse for them To this you answer by asking where it is that you say that it is the Peoples best course to vest a Power in the Magistrate to
your Opinion have Commission and are obliged to promote the true Religion by Force and they can be guided in the Discharge of this Duty by nothing but their own Opinion of the true Religion What Advantage can this be to the true Religion what Benefit to their Subjects or whether it amounts to any more than a Commission to every Magistrate to use Force for the promoting his own Religion To this Question therefore you will do well to apply your Answer which a Man of less Skill than you will be scarce able to do You tell us indeed that whatever the Magistrate's Opinion be his Power was given him as the Apostles Power was to them for Edification only and not for Destruction But if the Apostles Power had been given them for one End and St. Paul St. Peter and nine others of the twelve had had nothing to guide them but their own Opinion which led them to another End I ask you whether the Edification of the Church could have been carried on as it was You tell us farther that it may always be said of the Magistrate what St. Paul said of himself that he can do nothing against the Truth but for the Truth Witness the K. of France If you say this in the same Sense that St. Paul said it of himself who in all things requisite for Edification had the immediate Direction and Guidance of the unerring Spirit of God and so was infallible we need not go to Rome for an infallible Guide every Country has one in their Magistrate If you apply these Words to the Magistrate in another Sense than what St. Paul spoke them in of himself sober Men will be apt to think you have a great Care to insinuate into others a high Veneration for the Magistrate but that you your self have no over-great Reverence for the Scripture which you thus use nor for Truth which you thus defend To deny the Magistrate to have a Power to compel Men to his Religion But yet to say the Magistrate has a Power and is bound to punish Men to make them consider till they cease to reject the true Religion of which true Religion he must be Judg or else nothing can be done in Discharge of this his Duty is so like going round about to come to the same place that it will always be a Circle in mine and other Peoples Imagination and not only there but in your Hypothesis All that you say turns upon the Truth or Falshood of this Proposition That whoever punishes any one in Maâ—…ters of Religion to make him consider takes upon him to be Judg for another what is right in Matters of Religion This you think plainly involves a Contradiction and so it would if these general Terms had in your use of them their ordinary and usual meaning But Sir be but pleased to take along with you That whoever punishes any Man your way in Matters of Religion to make him consider as you use the word consider takes upon him to be Judg for another what is right in Matters of Religion and you will find it so far from a Contradiction that it is a plain Truth For your way of punishing is a peculiar way and is this That the Magistrate where the National Religion is the true Religion should punish those who dissent from it to make them consider as they ought i. e. till they cease to reject or in other words till they conform to it If therefore he punishes none but those who dissent from and punishes them till they conform to that which he judges the true Religion does he not take on him to judg for them what is the true Religion 'T is true indeed what you say there is no other reason to punish another to make him consider but that he should judg for himself and this will always hold true amongst those who when they speak of considering mean considering and nothing else But then these things will follow from thence 1. That in inflicting of Penalties to make Men consider the Magistrate of a Country where the National Religion is false no more misapplies his Power than he whose Religion is true for one has as much right to punish the Negligent to make them consider study and examine Matters of Religion as the other 2. If the Magistrate punishes Men in Matters of Religion truly to make them consider he will punish all that do not consider whether Conformists or Nonconformists 3. If the Magistrate punishes in Matters of Religion to make Men consider it is as you say to make Men judg for themselves for there is no use of considering but in order to judging But then when a Man has judg'd for himself the Penalties for not considering are to be taken off for else your saying that a Man is punished to make him consider that he may judg for himself is plain Mockery So that either you must reform your Scheme or allow this Proposition to be true viz. Whoever punishes any Man in Matters of Religion to make him in your sense consider takes upon him to judg for another what is right in Matters of Religion and with it the Conclusion viz. Therefore whoever punishes any one in Matters of Religion to make him consider takes upon him to do what no Man can do and consequently misapplies his Power of punishing if he has that Power Which Conclusion you say you should readily admit as sufficiently demonstrated if the Proposition before mentioned were true But further if it could enter into the Head of any Law-maker but you to punish Men for the omission of or to make them perform any internal Act of the Mind such as is Consideration Whoever in matter of Religion would lay an Injunction on Men to make them consider could not do it without judging for them in Matters of Religion unless they had no Religion at all and then they come not within our Author's Toleration which is a Toleration only of Men of different Religions or of different Opinions in Religion For supposing you the Magistrate with full Power and as you imagin'd Right of punishing any one in Matters of Religion how could you possibly punish any one to make him consider without judging for him what is right in Matters of Religion I will suppose my self brought before your Worship under what Character you please and then I desire to know what one or more Questions you would ask me upon my Answer to which you could judg me fit to be punished to make me consider without taking upon you to judg fâ—…r me what is right in Matters of Religion for I conclude from the Fashion of my Coat or the Colour of my Eyes you would not judg that I ought to be punished in Matters of Religion to make me consider If you could I should allow you not only as capable but much more capable of coactive Power than other Men. But since you could not judg me to need Punishment in Matters of
Magistrate to do it as a Magistrate i. e. by that Power which enables him to do it above the rate of other Men. So far therefore is the Christian Magistrate when he gives his helping-Hand to the furtherance of the Gospel by laying convenient Penalties upon such as reject it or any part of it from using any other means for the Salvation of Mens Souls than what the Author and Finisher of our Faith has directed that he does no more than his Duty to God to his Redeemer and to his Subjects requires of him Christ you say has given no new Power or Commission to the Magistrate and for this you give several Reasons 1. There was no need that he should yet it seems strange that the Christian Magistrates alone should have an exercise of coaâ—…ve Power in Matters of Religion and yet our Saviour should say nothing of it but leave them to that Commission which was common to them with all other Magistrates The Christian Religion in cases of less moment is not wanting in its Rules and I know not whether you will not charge the New Testament with a great Defect if that Law alone which teaches the only true Religion that Law which all Magistrates who are of the true Religion receive and embrace should say nothing at all of so necessary and important a Duty to those who alone are in a Capacity to discharge it but leave them only to that general Law of Nature which others who are not qualified to use this Force have in common with them This at least seems needful if a new Commission does not that the Christian Magistrates should have been instructed what Degree of Force they should use and been limited to your moderate Penalties since for above these 1200 Years though they have readily enough found out your Commission to use Force they never found out your moderate use of it which is that alone which you assure us is useful and necessary 2. You say If our Saviour had any Temporal Power to give whereby you seem to give this as a reason why he gave not the Civil Magistrate Power to use Force in Matters of Religion that he had it not to give You tell us in the same Paragraph that he is King of Kings and he tells us himself That all Power is given unto him in Heaven and in Earth So that he could have given what Power to whom and to what Purpose he had pleased and concerning this there needs no if 3. For he found him already by the Law of Nature invested with coactive Power and obliged to use it for all the good Purposes which it might serve and for which it should be found needful He found also Fathers Husbands Masters invested with their distinct Powers by the same Law and under the same Obligation and yet he thought it needsul to prescribe to them in the use of those Powers But there was no need he should do so to the Civil Magistrates in the use of their Power in Matters of Religion because tho Fathers Husbands Masters were liable to Excess in the use of theirs yeâ—… Christian Magistrates were not as appears by their having always kept to those moderate Measures which you assure us to be the only necessary and useful And what at last is their Commission Even that of Charity which obliges all Men to seek and promote the Good of others especially their spiritual and eternal Good by such means as their several Places and Relations enable them to use especially Magistrates as Magistrates This Duty of Charity is well discharged by the Magistrate as Magistrate is it not in bringing Men to an outward Profession of any even of the true Religion and leaving them there But Sir I ask you who must be Judg what is for the spiritual and eternal Good of his Subjects the Magistrate himself or no If not he himself who for him Or can it be done without any one's judging at all If he the Magistrate must judg every-where himself what is for the spiritual and eternal Good of his Subjects as I see no help for itâ—… if the Magistrate be every-where by the Law of Nature obliged to promote their spiritual and eternal Good is not the true Religion like to find great Advantage in the World by the use of Force in the Magistrates Hands And is not this a plain demonstration that God has by the Law of Nature given Commission to the Magistrate to use Force for the promoting the true Religion since as it is evident the execution of such a Commission will do so much more Harm than Good To shew that your indirect and at a distance Vsefulness with a general necessity of Force authorizes the Civil Power in the use of it you use the following Words That Force does some service towards the making of Scholars and Artists I suppose you will easily grant Give me leave therefore to ask how it does it I suppose you will say not by its direct and proper Efficacy for Force is no more capable to work Learning or Arts than the belief of the true Religion in Men by its direct and proper Efficacy but by prevailing upon those who are designed for Scholars or Artists to receive Instruction and to apply themselves to the use of those Means and Helps which are proper to make them what they are designed to be that is it does it indirectly and at a distance Well then if all the Vsefulness of the Force towards the bringing Scholars or Apprentices to the Learning or Skill they are designed to attain be only an indirect and at a distance Usefulness I pray what is it that warrants and authorizes Schoolmasters Tutors or Masters to use Force upon their Scholars or Apprentices to bring them to Learning or the Skill of their Arts and Trades if such an indirect and at a distance Usefulness of Force together with that Necessity of it which Experience discovers will not do it I believe you will acknowledg that even such an Vsefulness together with that Necessity will serve the turn in these cases But then I would fain know why the same kind of Vsefulness joined with the like Necessity will not as well do it in the case before us I confess I see no reason why it should not nor do I believe you can assign any You ask here what authorizes Schoolmasters or Masters to use Force on their Scholars and Apprentices if such an indirect and at a distance Usefulness together with Necessity does not do it I answer neither your indirect and at a distance Vsefulness nor the Necessity you suppose of it For I do not think you will say that any Schoolmaster has a power to teach much less to use Force on any one's Child without the Consent and Authority of the Father but a Father you will say has a power to use Force to correct his Child to bring him to Learning or Skill in that Trade he is designed to and to
this the Father is authorized by the Usefulness and Necessity of Force This I deny that the meer-supposed Usefulness and Necessity of Force authorizes the Father to use it for then whenever he judg'd it useful and necessary for his Son to prevail with him to apply himself to any Trade he might use Force upon him to that purpose which I think neither you nor any body else will say a Father has a right to do on his idle and perhaps married Son at 30 or 40 Years old There is then something else in the case and whatever it be that authorizes the Father to use Force upon his Child to make him a Prosicient in it authorizes him also to chuse that Trade Aâ—…t or Science he would have him a Proficient in for the Father can no longer use Force upon his Son to make him attain any Art or Trade than he can presâ—…ribe to him the Art or Trade he is to attain Put your Parallel now if you please The Father by the Usefulness and Nâ—…sity of Force is authorized to use it upon his Child to make him attain any Art or Science therefore the Magistrate is authorized to use Force to bring Men to the true Religion because it is useful and necessary Thus far you have used it and you think it does well But let us go on with the Parallel This Usefulness and Necessity of Force authorizes the Father to use it to make his Son apply himself to the use of the Means and Helps which are proper to make him what he is designed to be no longer than it authorizes the Father to design what his Son shall be and to chuse for him the Art or Trade he shall be of and so the Usefulness and Necessity you suppose in Force to bring Men to any Church cannot authorize the Magistrate to use Force any farther than he has a right to chuse for any one what Church or Religion he shall be of So that if you will stick to this Argument and allow the Parallel between a Magistrate and a Father and the right they have to use Force for the instructing of their Subjects in Religion and Children in Arts you must either allow the Magistrate to have power to chuse what Religion his Subjects shall be of which you have denied or else that he has no power to use Force to make them use Means to be of it A Father being entrusted with the Care and Provision for his Child is as well bound in Duty as fitted by natural Love and Tenderness to supply the Defects of his tender Age. When it is born the Child cannot move it self for the ease and help of natural Necessities the Parents Hands must supply that Inability and feed cleanse and swaddle it Age having given more Strength and the exercise of the Limbs the Parents are discharged from the trouble of putting Meat into the Mouth of the Child clothing or unclothing or carrying him in their Arms. The same Duty and Affection which required such kind of Helps to the Infant makes them extend their Thoughts to other Cares for him when he is grown a little bigger 't is not only a present Support but a future comfortable Subsistence begins to be thought on to this some Art or Science is necessary but the Child's Ignorance and want of Prospect makes him unable to chuse And hence the Father has a power to chuse for him that the flexible and docile part of Life may not be squandred away and the time of Instruction and Improvement be lost for want of Direction The Trade or Art being chosen by the Father 't is the Exercise and Industry of the Child must acquire it to himself but Industry usually wanting in Children the Spur which Reason and Foreâ—…ght gives to the Endeavours of grown Men the Father's Rod and Correction is fain to supply that Want to make him apply himself to the use of those Means and Helps which are proper to make him what he is designed to be But when the Child is once come to the State of Manhood and to be the Possessor and free Disposer of his Goods and Estate he is then discharged from this Discipline of his Parents and they have no longer any right to chuse any Art Science or Course of Life for him or by Force to make him apply himself to the use of those Means which are proper to make him be what he designs to be Thus the want of knowledg to chuse a sit Calling and want of knowledg of the necessity of Pains and Industry to attain Skill in it puts a Power into the Parents hands to use Force where it is necessary to procure the Application and Diligence of their Children in that which their Parents have thought fit to set them to but it gives this Power to the Parents only and to no other whilst they live and if they die whilst their Children need it to their Substitutes and there it is safely placed for since their want of Knowledg during their Non-age makes them want Direction and want of Reason often makes them need Punishment and Force to excite their Endeavours and keep them intent to the use of those Means that lead to the End they are directed to the Tenderness and Love of Parents will engage them to use it only for their Good and generally to quit it too when by the Title of Manhood they come to be above the Direction and Discipline of Children But how does this prove that the Magistrate has any right to force Men to apply themselves to the use of those Means and Helps which are proper to make them of any Religion more than it proves that the Magistrate has a right to chuse for them what Religion they shall be of To your Question therefore What is it that warrants and authorizes Schoolmasters Tutors and Masters to use Force upon their Scholars or Apprentices I answer A Commission from the Father or Mother or those who supply their Places for without that no indirect or at a distance Vsefulness or supposed Necessity could authorize them But then you will ask Is it not this Vsefulness and Necessity that gives this Power to the Father and Mother I grant it I would fain know then say you why the same Vsefulness joined witâ—… the like Necessity will as well do in the Case before us And I Sir will as readily tell you Because the Understanding of the Parents is to supply the want of it in the Minority of their Children and therefore they have a right not only to use Force to make their Children apply themselves to the means of acquiring any Art or Trade but to chuse also the Trade or Calling they shall be of But when being come out of the State of Minority they are supposed of Years of Discretion to chuse what they will design themselves to be they are also at liberty to judg what Application and Industry they will use for the attaining of it and
then how negligent soever they are in the use of the Means how averse soever to Instruction or Application they are past the Correction of a Schoolmaster and their Parents can no longer chuse or design for them what they shall be nor use Force to prevail with them to apply themselves to the use of those Means and Helps which are proper to make them what they are designed to be He that imagines a Father or Tutor may send his Son to School at thirty or forty Years old and order him to be whipp'd there or that any indirect and at a distance Usefulness will authorize him to be so used will be thought fitter to be sent thither himself and there to receive due Correction When you have consider'd 't is otherwise in the case of the Magistrate using Force your way in Matters of Religion that there his Understanding is not to supply the defect of Understanding in his Subjects and that only for a time that he cannot chuse for any of his Subjects what Religion he shall be of as you your self confess and that this Power of the Magistrate if it be as is claimed by you over Men of all Ages Parts and Endowments you will perhaps see some reason why it should not do in the Case before us as well as in that of Schoolmasters and Tutors though you believe I cannot assign any But Sir will your indirect and at a distance Vsefulness together with your supposed Necessity authorize the Master of the Shoe-makers Company to take any one who comes in his Hands and punish him for not being of the Shoe-makers Company and not coming to their Guild when he who has a right to chuse of what Trade and Company he will be thinks it not his Interest to be a Shoe-maker Nor can he or any body else imagine that this Force this Punishment is used to make him a good Shoe-maker when it is seen and avowed that the Punishments cease and they are free from it who enter themselves of the Company whether they are really Shoe-makers or in earnest apply themselves to be so or no. How much it differs from this that the Magistrate should punish Men for not being of his Church who chuse not to be of it and when they are once entred into the Communion of it are punished no more though they are as ignorant unskilful and unpractised in the Religion of it as before how much I say this differs from the Case I proposed I leave you to consider For after all your Pretences of using Force for the Salvation of Souls and consequently to make Men really Christians you are fain to allow and you give Reasons for it that Force is used only to those who are out of your Church but whoever are once in it are free from Force whether they be really Christians and apply themselves to those things which are for the Salvation of their Souls or no. As to what you say That whether they chuse it or no they ought to chuse it for your Magistrate's Religion is the true Religion that is the Question between you and them but be that as it will if Force be to be used in the case I have proved that be the Magistrate's Religion true or false he whilst he believes it to be true is under an obligation to use Force as if it were true But since you think your Instance of Children so weighty and pressing give me leave to return you your Question I ask you then Are not Parents as much authorized to teach their Children their Religion as they are to teach them their Trade when they have designed them to it May they not as lawfully correct them to make them learn their Catechise or the Principles of their Religion as they may to make them learn Clenard's Grammar Or may they not use Force to make them go to Mass or whatever they believe to be the Worship of the true Religion as to go to School or to learn any Art or Trade If they may as I think you will not deny unless you will say that none but Orthodox Parents may teach their Children any Religion If they may I say then pray tell me a Reason if your Argumenâ—… from the Discipline of Children be good why the Magistrate may not use Force to bring Men to his Religion as well as Parents may use Force to instruct Children and bring them up in theirs When you have considered this you will perhaps find some difference between the State of Children and grown Men betwixt those under Tutelage and those who are free and at their own disposal and be inclined to think that those Reasons which subject Children in their Non-age to the use of Force may not nor do concern Men at Years of Discretion You tell us farther That Commonwealths are instituted for the attaining of all the Benefits which Political Government can yield and therefore if the spiritual and eternal Interests of Men may any way be procured or advanced by Political Government the procuring and advancing those Interests must in all reason be received amongst the Ends of Civil Society and so consequently fall within the compass of the Magistrate's Jurisdiction Concerning the extent of the Magistrate's Jurisdiction and the Ends of Civil Society whether the Author or you have begg'd the Question which is the chief business of your 56th and two or three following Pages I shall leave it to the Readers to judg and bring the matter if you please to a shorter Iâ—…ue The Question is Whether the Magistrate has any Power to interpose Force in Matters of Religion or for the Salvation of Souls The Argument against it is That Civil Societies are not constituted for that End and the Magistrate cannot use Force for Ends for which the Common-wealth was not constituted The End of a Commonwealth constituted can be supposed no other than what Men in the Constitution of and entring into it propos'd and that could be nothing but Protection from such Injuries from other Men which they desiring to avoid nothing but Force could prevent or remedy all things but this being as well attainable by Men living in Neighbourhood without the Bonds of a Commonwealth they could propose to themselves no other thing but this in quitting their Natural Liberty and putting themselves under the Umpirage of a Civil Soveraign who therefore had the Force of all the Members of the Commonwealth put into his Hands to make his Decrees to this end be obeyed Now since no Man or Society of Men can by their Opinions in Religion or Ways of Worship do any Man who differed from them any Injury which he could not avoid or redress if he desired it without the help of Force the punishing any Opinion in Religion or Ways of Worship by the Force given the Magistrate could not be intended by those who constituted or entred into the Commonwealth and so could be no End of it but quite the contrary For Force from
to the Commonwealth nor one of the Ends of it that these Members of the Society should be disturb'd and diseas'd to no purpose when they are guilty of no Fault For just the same Reason it cannot be a Benefit to Civil Society that Men should be punished in Denmark for not being Lutherans in Geneva for not being Calvinists and in Vienna for not being Papists as a means to make them find out the true Religion For so upon your Grounds Men must be treated in those Places as well as in England for not being of the Church of England And then I beseech you consider the great Benefit will accrue to Men in Society by this Method and I suppose it will be a hard thing for you to prove That ever Civil Governments were instituted to punish Men for not being of this or that Sect in Religion however by Accident indirectly and at a distance it may be an occasion to one perhaps of a thousand or an hundred to â—…udy that Controversy which is all you expect from it If it be a 〈◊〉 pray tell me what Benefit it is A Civil Benefit it cannot be For Mens Civil Interests are disturb'd injur'd and impair'd by it And what Spiritual Benefit that can be to any Multitude of Men to be punished for Dissenting from a false or erroneous Profession I would have you find out unless it be a Spiritual Benefit to be in danger to be driven into a wrong way For if in all differing Sects one is in the wrong 't is a hundred to one but that from which any one Dissents and is punished for Dissenting from is the wrong L. 3. p. 58. To your next Paragraph after what has already been said I think it may â—…ffice to say as follows Though perhaps the Peripâ—…tetick â—…hilosophy may not be true and perhaps it is no great matter if it be not yet the true Religion is undoubâ—…dly true And though perhaps a great many have not time nor Parts to study that Philosophy and perhaps it may be no great matter neither if they have not yet all that have the true Religion duly tender'd them have time and all but Idiots and Mad-men have Parts likewise to study it as much as it is necessary for them to study it And though perhaps a great many who have studied that Philosophy cannot be convinced of the Truth of it which perhaps is no great Wonder yet no Man â—…ver studied the true Religion with such Care and Diligence as he might and ought to use and with an honest Mind but he was convinced of the Truth of it And that those who cannot otherwise be brought to do this should be a little disturb'd and diseas'd to bring them to it I take to be the Interest not only of those particular Persons who by this means may be brought into the way of Salvation but of the Commonwealth likewise upon these two Accounts 1. Because the true Religion which this Method propagates makes good Men and good Men are always the best Subjects or Members of a Common-wealth not only as they do more sincerely and zealously promote the Publick Good than other Men but likewise in regard of the Favour of God which they often procure to the Societies of which they are Members And 2. Because this Care in any commâ—…ealth of God's Honour and Mens Salvation entitles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 his special Protection and Blessing So that where this Method is used it proves both a Spiritual and a Civil Benefit to the Commonwealth You tell us the true Religion is undoubtedly true If you had told us too who is undoubtedly Judg of it you had put all past doubt but till you will be pleased to determine that it will be undoubtedly true that the King of Denmark is as undoubtedly Judg of it at Copenhagen and the Emperor at Vienna as the King of England in this Island I do not say they judg as right but they are by as much Right Judges and therefore have as much Right to punish those who dissent from Lutheranism and Popery in those Countries as any other Civil Magistrate has to punish any Dissenters from the National Religion any where else And who can deny but these Briars and Thorns laid in their way by the Penal Laws of those Countries may do some Service indirectly and at a Distance to bring Men there severely and impartially to examine Matters of Religion and so to imbrace the Truth that must save them which the bare outward Profession of any Religion in the World will not do This true Religion which is undoubtedly true you tell us too never any body studied with such Care and Diligence as he might and ought to use and with an honest Mind but he was convinced of the Truth of it If you will resolve it in your short circular way and tell me such Diligence as one ought to use is such Diligence as brings one to be convinced it is a Question too easy to be asked If I should desire to know plainly what is to be understood by it it would be a Question too hard for you to answer and therefore I shall not trouble you with demanding what this Diligence which a Man may and ought to use is nor what you mean by an honest Mind I only ask you whether Force your way applied be able to produce them that so the Commonwealth may have the Benefits you propose from Mens being convinced of and consequently imbracing the true Religion which you say no Body can miss who is brought to that Diligence and that honest Mind The Benefits to the Commonwealth are 1. That the true Religion that this Method propagates makes good Men and good Men are always the best Subjects and often procure the Favour of God to the Society they are Members of Being forward enough to grant that nothing contributes so much to the Benefit of a Society as that it be made up of good Men I began presently to give into your Method which promises so sure a way to make Men so study the true Religion that they cannot miss the being convinced of the Truth of it and so hardly avoid being really of the true Religion and consequently good Men. But that I might not mistake in a thing of that consequence I began to look about in those Countries where Force had been made use of to propagate what you allowed to be the true Religion and found Complaints of as great a Scarcity of good Men there as in other places A Friend whom I discoursed on this Point said It might possibly be that the World had not yet had the benefit of your Method because Law-makers had not yet been able to find that just Temper of Penalties on which your Propagation of the true Religion was built and that therefore it was great pity you had not yet discovered this great Secret but 't was to be hoped you would Another who stood by said he did not see how your Method could
time of War agaiâ—…t 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Enemies without any municipal Laws Judges 〈◊〉 â—…ny â—…rson with Superiority establishâ—…d amongst them but 〈◊〉 all their private Differences if any aâ—…ose by the extempory Determination of their Neighbours or of Arbitrators 〈◊〉 by the Partieâ—… I ask you whether in such a Commonwealth the Chiestain who was the only Man of Authority amongst them had any Power to use the Force of the Commonwealth to any other End but the Defence of it against an Enemy though other Benefits were attainable by it The Paragraph of mine to which you mean your next for an Answer shall answer for it self L. 2. p. 56. You quote the Author's Argument which he brings to prove that the Care of Souls is not committed to the Magistrate in these Words It is not committed to him by God because it appears not God has ever given any such Authority to one Man over another as to compel any one to his Religion This when first I read it I confess I thought a good Argument But you say this is quite besides the business and the Reason you give is For the Authority of the Magistrate is not an Authority to compel any one to his Religion but only an Authority to procure all his Subjects the means of discovering the way of Salvation and to prâ—…cure withal as much as in him lies that 〈◊〉 â—…emain ignorant of it c. I fâ—…r Sir you forget your self The Author was not writing against your new Hypothesis before it was known in the World He may be excused if he had not the Gift of Prophecy to argue against a Notion which was not yet started He had in view only the Laws hitherto made and the Punishments in Matters of Religion in use in the World The Penalties as I take it are laid on Men for being of different Ways of Religion which what is it other but to compel them to relinquish their own and to conform themselves to that from which they differ If this be not to compel them to the Magistrate's Religion pray tell us what is This must be necessarily so understood unless it can be supposed that the Law intends not to have that done which with Penalties it commands to be done or that Punishments are not Compulsion not that Compulsion the Author complains of The Law says Do this and live embrace this Doctrine conform to this way of Worship and be at ease and free or else be fined imprisoned banished burnt If you can shew among the Laws that have been made in England concerning Religion and I think I may say any where else any one that punishes Men for not having impartially examined the Religion they have embraced or refused I think I may yield you the Cause Law-makers have been generally wiser than to make Laws that could not be executed and therefore their Laws were against Nonconformists which could be known and not for impartial Examination which could not 'T was not then besides the Author's Business to bring an Argument against the Persecutions here in fashion He did not know that any one who was so free as to acknowledg that the Magistrate has not an Authority to compel any one to his Religion and thereby at once as you have done give up all the Laws now in force against Dissenters had yet Rods in store for them and by a new Trick would bring them under the lash of the Law when the old Pretences were too much exploded to serve any longer Have you never heard of such a thing as the Religion establish'd by Law which is it seems the Lawful Religion of a Country and to be complied with as such There being such Things such Notions yet in the World it was not quite besides the Author's business to alledg that God never gave such Authority to one Man over another as to compel any one to his Religion I will grant if you please Religion establish'd by Law is a pretty odd way of speaking in the Mouth of a Christian and yet it is much in fashion as if the Magistrate's Authority could add any Force or Sanction to any Religion whether true or false I am glad to find you have so far considered the Magistrate's Authority that you agree with the Author that he hath none to compel Men to his Religion Much less can he by any Establishment of Law add any thing to the Truth or Validity of his own or any Religion whatsoever That above-annexed is all the Answer you think this Paragraph of mine deserves But yet in that little you say you must give me leave to take notice that if as you say the Magistrate's Authority may do much towards the upholding and preserving the true Religion within his Jurisdiction so also may it do much towards the upholding and preserving of a false Religion and in that respect if you say true may be said to establish it For I think I need not mind you here again that it must unavoidably depend upon his Opinion what shall be established for true or rejected as false And thus you have my Thoughts concerning the most material of what you say touching the Magistrate's Commission to use Force in Matters of Religion together with some incident Places in your Answer which I have taken notice of as they have come in my way CHAP. III. Who are to be punished by your Scheme TO justify the largeness of the Author's Toleration who would not have Jews Mahometans and Pagans excluded from the Civil Rights of the Commonwealth because of their Religion I said I feared it will hardly be believed that we pray in earnest for their Conversion if we exclude them from the ordinary and probable Means of it either by driving them from us or persecuting them when they are among us You reply Now I confess I thought Men might live quietly enough among us and enjoy the Protection of the Government against all Violence and Injuries without being endenizon'd or made Members of the Commonwealth which alone can entitle them to the Civil Rights and Privileges of it But as to Jews Mahometans and Pagans if any of them do not care to live among us unless they may be admitted to the Rights and Privileges of the Common-wealth the refusing them that Favour is not I suppose to be looked upon as driving them from us or excluding them from the ordinary and probable Means of Conversion but as a just and necessary Caution in a Christian Commonwealth in respect to the Members of it Who if such as profess Judaism or Mahometanism or Paganism were permitted to enjoy the same Rights with them would be much the more in danger to be seduced by them seeing they would lose no worldly Advantage by such a Change of their Religion Whereas if they could not turn to any of those Religions without forfeiting the Civil Rights of the Commonwealth by doing it 't is likely they would consider well before they did it what ground
there was to expect that they should get any thing by the Exchange which would countervail the Loss they should sustain by it I thought Protection and Impunity of Men not offending in Civil Things might have been accounted the Civil Rights of the Commonwealth which the Author meant but you to make it seem more add the word Privileges Let it be so Live amongst you then Jews Mahometans and Pagans may but endenizon'd they must not be But why Are there not those who are Members of your Commonwealth who do not imbrace the Truth that must save them any more than they What think you of Soâ—…inians Papists Anabaptists Quakers Presbyterians If they do not reject the Truth necessary to Salvation why do you punish them Or if some that are in the way to Perdition may be Members of the Commonwealth why must these be excluded upon the account of Religion For I think there is no great odds as to saving of Souls which is the only End for which they are punished amongst those Religions each whereof will make those who are of it miss Salvation Only if there be any fear of seducing those who are of the National Church the Danger is most from that Religion which comes nearest to it and most resembles it However this you think but a just and necessary Caution in a Christian Commonwealth in respect of the Members of it I suppose for you love to speak doubtfully these Members of a Christian Common-wealth you take such care of are Members also of the National Church whose Religion is the true and therefore you call them in the next Paragraph Subjects of Christ's Kingdom to whom he has a special regard For Dissenters who are punished to be made good Christians to whom Force is used to bring them to the true Religion and to the Communion of the Church of God 't is plain are not in your Opinion good Christians or of the true Religion unles you punish them to make them what they are already The Dissenters therefore who are already perverted and reject the Truth that must save them you are not I suppose so careful of lest they should be seduced Those who have already the Plague need not be guarded from Infection nor can you fear that Men so desperately perverse that Penalties and Punishments joined to the Light and Strength of the Truth have not been able to bring from the Opinions they have espoused into the Communion of the Church should be seduced to Judaism 〈◊〉 or Paganism neither of which has the advantage of Truth â—…r Interest to prevail by 'T is therefore those of the National Church as I conclude also from the close of this Paragraph where you speak of God's own peculiar People whâ—…re you think would be much the more in danger to be seduced by them if they were 〈◊〉 since they would lose no worldly Advantage by such a change of their Religion i. e. by quitting the National Church to turn Jews Mahometans or Pagans This shews whatever you say of the sufficient means of Instruction provided by the Law how well you think the Members of the National Church are instructed in the true Religion It shews also whatever you say of its being presumable that they imbrace it upon Conviction how much you are satisfied that the Members of the National Church are convinc'd of the Truth of the Religion they profess or rather herd with since you think them in great Danger to change it for Judaism Mahometism or Paganism it self upon equal terms and because they shall lose no worldly Advantage by such a Change But if the forseiting the Civil Rights of the Commonwealth be the proper Remedy to keep Men in the Communion of the Church why is it used to keep Men from Judaism or Paganism and not from Phanaticism Upon this Account why might not Jews Pagans and Mahometans be admitted to the Rights of the Commonwealth as far as Papists Independents and Quakers But you distribute to every one according to your good Pleasure and doubtless are fully justified by these following Words And whether this be not a reasonable and necessary Caution any Man may judg who does but consider within how few Ages after the Flood Superstition and Idolatry prevailed over the World and how apt even God's own peculiar People were to receive that mortal Infection notwithstanding all that he did to keep them from it What the State of Religion was in the first Ages after the Flood is so imperfectly known now that as I have shewed you in another Place you can make little Advantage to your Cause from thence And since it was the same Corruption then which as you own withdraws Men now from the true Religion and hinders it from prevailing by its own â—…ight without the Assistance of Force and it is the same Corruption that keeps Dissenters as well as Jews Mahometuns and Pagans from imbracing of the Truth why differâ—…nt Degrees of Punishments should be used to them till there be sound in them disserent Degrees of 〈◊〉 would need some better Reason Why this common Pravity of 〈◊〉 Nature should make 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or Paganism more catching than any sort of Nonconformity which â—…inders 〈◊〉 from imbracing the true Religion â—…o that Jews 〈◊〉 and Pagans must for â—…ear of infeâ—…ting others be shut out from â—…he Commonwealth when others are not I would 〈◊〉 know 〈◊〉 Whatever it was that so disposed the Jews to Idolatry before the Captivity sure it is they firmly resisted it and refused to change not only where they might have done it on equal terms but have had great Advantage to boot and therefore 't is possible that there is something in this matter which neither you nor I do fully comprehend and may with a becoming Humility sit down and confess that in this as well as other Parts of his Providence God's Ways are past finding out But this we may be certain from this Instance of the Jews that it is not reasonable to conclude that because they were once inclin'd to Idolatry that therefore they or any other People are in Danger to turn Pagans whenever they shall lose no worldly Advantage by such a Change But if we may oppose nearer and known Instances to more remote and uncertain look into the World and tell me since Jesus Christ brought Life and Immortality to light through the Gospel where the Christian Religion meeting Judaism Mahometism or Paganism upon equal terms lost so plainly by it that you have Reason to suspect the Members of a Christian Commonwealth would be in Danger to be seduced to either of them if they should lose no worldly Advantage by such a Change of their Religion rather than likely to increase among them Till you can find then some better Reason for excluding Jews c. from the Rights of the Commonwealth you must give us leave to look on this as a bare Pretence Besides I think you are under a Mistake which shews your Pretence
them with sufficient Evidence But then to let you see how little ground you have to say that I prevaricate in this matter I shall only desire you to consider what it is that the Author and my self were enquiring after For it is not What Course is to be taken to confirm and establish those in the Truth who have already embraced it nor How they may be enabled to propagate it to others for both which Purposes I have already acknowledged it very useful and a thing much to be desired that all such Persons should as far as they are able search into the Grounds upon which their Religion stands and challenges their Belief but the Subject of our Enquiry is only What Method is to be used 〈◊〉 bring Men to the true Religion Now if this be the only thing we were inquiring after as you cannot deny it to be then every one sees that in speaking to this Point I had nothing to do with any who have already imbraced the true Religion because they are not to be brought to that Religion but only to be confirmed and edified in it but was only to consider how those who reject it may be brought to imbrace it So that how much soever any of those who own the true Religion may be guilty of neglect of Examination 't is evident I was only concerned to shew how it may be cured in those who by reason of it reject the true Religion duly proposed or tender'd to them And certainly to confine my self to this is not to prevaricate unless to keep within the Bounds which the Question under debate prescribes me be to prevaricate In telling me therefore that I dare not say that the Ignorant the Careless the Inconsiderate the Negligent in examining c. i. e. all that are such are to be punished you only tell me that I dare not be impertinent And therefore I hope you will excuse me if I take no notice of the three Reasons you offer in your next Page for your saying so And yet if I had had a mind to talk impertinently I know not why I might not have dared to do so as well as other Men. There is one thing more in this Paragraph which though nothing more pertinent than the rest I shall not wholly pass over It lies in these Words He that reads your Treatise with Attention will be more confirm'd in this Opinion viz. That I use want of Examination only for a Pretence to punish Dissenters c. when he shall find that you who are so earnest to have Men punish'd to bring them to consider and examine that so they may discover the Way of Salvation have not said one Word of considering searching and hearkning to the Scripture which had been as good a Rule for a Christian to have sent them to as to Reasons and Arguments proper to convince them of you know not what c. How this confirms that Opinion I do not see nor have you thought fit to instruct me But as to the thing it self viz. my not saying one Word of considering searching and hearkning to the Scripture whatever Advantage a captious Adversary may imagine he has in it I hope it will not seem strange to any indifferent and judicious Person who shall but consider that throughout my Treatise I speak of the true Religion only in general i. e. not as limited to any particular Dispensation or to the Times of the Scriptures but as reaching from the Fall of Adam to the End of the World and so comprehending the Times which preceded the Scriptures wherein yet God left not himself without Witness but furnished Mankind with sufficient Means of knowing Him and his Will in order to their eternal Salvation For I appeal to all Men of Art whether speaking of the True Religion under this Generality I could be allowed to descend to any such Rules of it as belong only to some particular Times or Dispensations such as you cannot but acknowledg the Old and New Testaments to be In this your Answer you say the Subject of our Inquiry is only what Method is to be used to bring Men to the true Religion He that reads what you say again and again That the Magistrate is impower'd and obliged to procure as much as in him lies i. e. as far as by Penalties it can be procured that NO MAN neglect his Soul and shall remember how many Pages you imploy A. p 6 c. And here p. 6 c. to shew that it is the Corruption of humane Nature which hinders Men from doing what they may and ought for the Salvation of their Souls and that therefore Penalties no other means being left and Force were necessary to be used by the Magistrate to remove these great Obstacles of Lâ—…sts and Corruptions that none of his Subjects might remain ignorant of the way of Salvation or refuse to imbrace it One would think your Inquiry had been after the means of CVRING MENS Aversion to the true Religion which you tell us p. 53. if not cured is certainly destructive of Mens Eternal Salvation that so they might heartily imbrace it for their Salvation But here you tell us your Inquiry is only what Method is to be used to bring Men to the true Religion whereby you evidently mean nothing but outward Conformity to that which you think the true Church as appears by the next following Words Now if this be the only thing we were inquiring after then every one sees that in speaking to this Point I had nothing to do with any who have already imbraced the true Religion And also every one sees that since amongst those with whom having already imbraced the true Religion you and your Penalties have nothing to do there are those who have not considered and examined Matters of Religion as they ought whose Lusts and corrupt Natures keep them as far alienated from believing and as averse to a real obeying the Truth that must save them as any other Men it is manifest that imbracing the true Religion in your Sense is only imbracing the outward Profession of it which is nothing but outward Conformity And that being the furthest you would have your Penalties pursue Men and there leave them with as much of their Ignorance of the Truth and Carelesness of their Souls as they please who can deny but that it would be impertinent in you to consider how want of impartial Examination or Aversion to the true Religion should in them be cured because they are none of those Subjects of the Commonwealth whose spiritual and eternal Interests are by political Government to be procured or advanced none of those Subjects whose Salvation the Magistrate is to take Care of And therefore I excuse you as you desire for not taking notice of my three Reasons but whether the Reader will do so or no is more than I can undertake I hope you too will excuse me for having used so harsh a Word as
prevaricate and impute it to my want of Skill in the English Tongue But when I find a Man pretend to a great Concern for the Salvation of Mens Souls and make it one of the great Ends of Civil Government that the Magistrate should make use of Force to bring all his Subjects to consider study and examine believe and imbrace the Truth that must save them when I shall have to do with a Man who to this Purpose hath writ two Books to find out and desend the proper Remedies for that general Backwardness and Aversion which depraved humane Nature keeps Men in to an impartial Search after and hearty imbracing the true Religion and who talks of nothing less than Obligations on Soveraigns both from their particular Duty as well as from common Charity to take Care that none of their Subjects should want the Assistance of this only means left for their Salvation nay who has made it so necessary to Mens Salvation that he talks as if the Wisdom and Goodness of God would be brought in Question if those who needed it should be destitute of it and yet notwithstanding all this Shew of Concern for Mens Salvation contrives the Application of this sole Remedy so that a great many who lie under the Disease should be out of the Reach and Benefit of his Cure and never have this only Remedy applied to them When this I say is so manifestly in his Thoughts all the while that he is forced to confess that though Want or Neglect of Examination be a general Fault yet the Method he proposes for curing it does not reach to all that are guilty of it but frankly owns that he was not concerned to shew how the Neglect of Examination might be cured in those who conform but only in those who by reason of it reject the true Religion duly proposed to them which rejecting the true Religion will require a Man of Art to shew to be here any thing but Nonconformity to the National Religion When I say I meet with a Man another time that does this who is so much a Man of Art as to talk of all and mean but some talk of hearty imbracing the true Religion and mean nothing but Conformity to the National pretend one thing and mean another if you please to tell me what Name I shall give it I shall not fail for who knows how soon again I may have an occasion sor it If I would punish Men for Nonconformity without owning of it I could not use a better Pretence than to say it was to make them hearken to Reasons and Arguments proper to convince them or to make them submit to the Instruction and Government of the proper Ministers of Religion without any thing else supposing still at the bottom the Arguments for and the Ministers of my Religion to be these that till they outwardly complied with they were to be punished But if instead of outward Conformity to my Religion covered under these indesinite terms I should tell them they were to examine the Scripture which was the sixed Rule for them and me not examining could not give me a Pretence to punish them unless I would also punish Conformists as ignorant and unversed in the Scripture as they which would not do my Business But what need I use Arguments to shew that your punishing to make Men examine is designed only against Dissenters when in your Answer to this very Paragraph of mine you in plain Words acknowledg that though want of Examination be a general Fault yet the Method you propose for curing does not reach to all that are guilty of it To which if you please to add what you tell us That when Dissenters conform the Magistrate cannot know and therefore never examins whether they do it upon Reason and Conviction or no though it be certain that upon conforming Penalties the necessary Means cease it will be obvious that whatever be talked Conformity is all that is aimed at and that want of Examination is but the Pretence to punish Dissenters And this I told you any one must be convinced of who observes that you who are so earnest to have Men punished to bring them to consider and examine that so they may discover the way of Salvation have not said one Word of considering searching and hearkning to the Scripture which you were told was as good a Rule for a Christian to have sent Men to as to the Instruction and Government of the proper Ministers of Religion or to the Information of those who tell them they have mistaken ' their way and offer to shew them the right For this pâ—…ssing by the Scripture you give us this Reason that throughout your Treaâ—…se you speak of the true Religion only in general i. e. not as limited to any particular Dispensation or to the times of the Scriptures but as reaching from the Fall of Adam to the End of the World c. And then you appeal to all Men of Art whether speaking of the true Religion under this Generality you could be allowed to descend to any such Rules of it as belong only to some particular Times or Dispensations such as I cannot but acknowledg the Old and New Testaments to be The Author that you write against making it his Business as no body can doubt who reads but the first Page of his Letter to shew that it is the Duty of Christians to tolerate both Christians and others who differ from them in Religion 't is pretty strange in asserting against him that the Magistrate might and ought to use Force to bring Men to the true Religion you should mean any other Magistrate than the Christian Magistrate or any other Religion than the Christian Religion But it seems you took so little notice of the Design of your Adversary which was to prove that Christians were not to use Force to bring any one to the true Christian Religion that you would prove that Christians now were to use Force not only to bring Men to the Christian but also to the Jewish Religion or that of the true Church before the Law or to some true Religion so general that it is none of these For say you throughout your Treatise you speak of the true Religion only in general i. e. not as limited to any particular Dispensation Though one that were not a Man of Art would suspect you to be of another Mind your self when you told us the shuting out of the Jews from the Rights of the Common-wealth is a just and necessary Caution in a Christian Commonwealth which you say to justify your Exception in the beginning of your A against the Largeness of the Author's Toleration who would not have Jews excluded But speak of the true Religion only in general as much as you please if your true Religion be that by which Men must be saved can you send a Man to any better Guide to that true Religion now than the
dissent from the Communion of the National Church without examining whether theirs too may not be that only True Religion which is necessary to Salvation Is not this to demand that the Magistrate's Power should be applied only in favour of a Party And can any one avoid being confirm'd in this Suspicion when he reads that broad Insinuation of yours P. 34. as if Our Magistrates were not concern'd for Truth 〈◊〉 Piety because they granted a Relaxation of those Penalties which you would have imploid in favour of your Party For so it must be call'd and not the Church of God exclusive of others unless you will say Men cannot be saved out of the Communion of your particular Church let it be National where you please You do not you say encourage the Magistrate to misapply his Power because in the very same Breath you tell him he misapplies his Power I answer Let all Men understand you as much as you please to say that he sins in doing it That will not excuse you from encouraging him there unless it be impossible that a Man may be encourag'd to Sin If your telling the Magistrate that his Subjects gain by his misapplying of Force be not an Encouragement to him to misapply it the doing good to others must cease to be an Encouragement to any Action And whether it be not a great Encouragement in this case to the Magistrate to go on in the use of 〈◊〉 without impartially examining whether his or his Subjects be the True Religion when he is told that be his Religion true or false his Subjects who suffer will be sure to be Gainers by it let any one judg For the Encouragement is not as you put it to the Magistrate to use Force to bring Men to what he thinks a false Religion but it is an Encouragement to the Magistrate who presumes his to be the True Religion to punish his Dissenting Subjects without due and impartial Examination on which side the Truth lies For having never told the Magistrate that neglect of Examination is a Sin in him if you should tell him a thousand times that he who uses his Power to bring Men to a False Religion misapplies it he would not understand by it that he sinn'd whilst he thought his the True and so it would be no restraint to the misapplying his Power And thus we have some Prospect of this admirable Machin you have 〈◊〉 up for the Salvation of Souls The Magistrate is to use Force to bring Men to the True Religion But what if he misapplies it to bring Men to a False Religion 'T is well still for his Subjects They are Gainers by it But this may encourage him to a Misapplication of it No You tell him that he that uses it to bring Men to a False Religion misapplies it And therefore he cannot but understand that you say he sins and lays himself open to Divine Vengeance No He believes himself in the right and thinks as St. Paul whilst a Persecutor that he does God good Service And you assure him here he makes his suffering Subjects Gainers and so he goes on as comfortably as St. Paul did Is there no Remedy for this Yes a very ready one and that is that the one only True Religion may be known by those who profess it to be the only True Religion To which if we add how you moderate as well as direct the Magistrate's Hand in punishing by making the last Regulation of your convenient Penalties to lie in the Prudence and Experience of Magistrates themselves we shall find the Advantages of your Method For are not your necessary Means of Salvation which lie in moderate Penalties used to bring Men to the True Religion brought to an happy State when that which is to guide the Magistrate in the Knowledg of the True Religion is that the True Religion may be known by those who profess it to be the only True Religion and the convenient Penalties to be used for the promoting of it are such as the Magistrate shall in his Prudence think fit and that whether the Magistrate applies it right or wrong the Subject will be a Gainer by it If in either of your Discourses you have given the Magistrate any better Direction than this to know the True Religion by which he is by Force to promote or any other intelligible Measure to moderate his Penalties by or any other Caution to restrain the misuse of his Power I desire you to shew it me And then I shall think I have reason to believe that in this Debate you have had more Care of the True Religion and the Salvation of Souls than to encourage the Magistrate to use the Power he has by your Direction and without Examination and to what degree he shall think sit in favour of a Party For the Matter thus stated if I mistake not will serve any Magistrate to use any degree of Force against any that dissent from his National Religion Having recommended to the Subjects the Magistrate's 〈◊〉 by a shew of Gain which will accrue to them by it you do well to bring in the Example of Julian who whatever he did to the Christians would no more than you own that it was Persecution but for their Advantage in the other World But whether his pretending Gain to them upon Grounds which he did not believe or your pretending Gain to them which no body can believe to be one be a greater Mockery you were best look This seems reasonable That his talk of Philanthropy and yours of Moderation should be bound up together For till you speak and tell them plainly what they may trust to the Advantage the Persecuted are to receive from your Clemency may I imagine make a second Part to what the Christians of that Age 〈◊〉 from his But you are solicitous for the Salvation of Souls and Dissenters shall find the Benefit of it CHAP. IX Of the Vsefulness of Force in Matters of Religion YOU having granted that in all Pleas for any thing because of its Usefulness it is not enough to say that it may be serviceable but it must be considered not only what it may but what it is likely to produce and the greater Good or Harm likely to come from it ought to determine the use of it I think there need nothing more to be said to shew the Uselesness of Force in the Magistrate's Hands for promoting the true Religion after it has been proved that if any then all Magistrates who believe their Religion to be true are under an Obligation to use it But since the usefulness and necessity of Force is the main Foundation on which you build your Hypothesis we will in the two remaining Chapters examine particularly what you say for them To the Author 's saying That Truth seldom hath received and he fears never will receive much assistance from the Power of Great Men to whom she is but rarely known and more rarely welcome You
to the first and second Letter concerning Toleration than is for the Advantage of your Cause when you impute to them the Increase of Sects and Heresies amongst us And there are some even of the Church of England have professed themselves so fully satisfied by the Reasons and Arguments in the first of them that though I dare not be positive to you whose Privilege it is to convince Men that they are convinced yet I may say 't is as presumable they are convinced having owned it as it is presumable that all that are Conformists are made so upon Reason and Conviction This I suppose may serve for an Answer to your next words That God in his just Judgment will send such as receive not the Love of Truth that they may be saved but reject it for the Pleasure they have in Vnrighteousness 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 strong Delusion i. e. such Reasons and Arguments as will prevail with Men so disposed to believe a Lie that they may be damn'd This you confess the Scripture plainly teaches us But that there are any such Reasons or Arguments as are proper and sufficient to convince or satisfy any but such resolute and obdurate Sinners of the Truth of such Falshood as will destroy them is a Position which you are sure the Scripture doth not 〈◊〉 us and which you tell me when I have better considered it you hope I will not undertake to maintain And yet if it be not maintainable what I say here is to no purpose For if there be no such Reasons and Arguments as here we speak of 't is in vain to talk of the Magistrate's using Force to make Men consider them But if you are still of the mind that no Magistrate but those who are of the True Religion can have Arguments back'd with Force proper and sufficient to convince and that in England none but resolute obdurate Sinners ever forsook or forbore the Communion of the Church of England upon Reasons and Arguments that satisfy or convince them I shall leave you to enjoy so charitable an Opinion But as to the Usefulness of Force your way applied I shall lay you down again the same Argument I used before though in Words less sitted for your Way of Reasoning on them now I know your Talent If there be any Efficacy in Force to bring Men to any Perswasion it will your Way apply'd bring more Men to Error than to Truth Your Way of using it is only to punish Men for not being of the National Religion which is the only Way you do or can apply Force without a Toleration Nonconformity is the Fault that is punish'd which Fault when it ceases the Punishment ceases But yet to make them consider is the end for which they are punish'd but whether it be or be not intended to make Men consider it alters nothing in the case Now I say that since all Magistrates who believe their Religion to be true are as much obliged to use Force to bring their Subjects to it as if it were true and since most of the National Religions of the World are erroneous if Force made use of to bring Men to the National Religion by punishing Dissenters have any Efficacy let it be what it will indirect and at a distance if you please it is like to do twenty times more harm than good because of the National Religions of the World to speak much within compass there are above 20 wrong for one that is right Indeed could Force be directed to drive all Men indifferently who are negligent and backward in it to study examine and consider seriously Matters of Religion and search out the Truth And if Men were upon their Study and Examination permitted to follow what appears to them to be right you might have some pretence for Force as serviceable to Truth in making Men consider But this is impossible but under a Toleration And I doubt whether even there Force can be so apply'd as to make Men consider and impartially examine what is true in the professed Religions of the World and to imbrace it This at least is certain that where Punishments pursue Men like outlying Deer only to the Pale of the National Church and when once they are within that leaves them free there and at ease it can do no Service to the True Religion even in a Country where the National is the true For the Penalties ceasing as soon as Men are got within the Pale and Communion of the Church they help not Men at all against that which you assign as the great Hindrance to the True Religion and which therefore in your Opinion makes Force necessary to assist it For there being no necessity that Men should leave either their Vices or Corruption or so much as their Ignorance to get within the Pale of the Church Force your way apply'd serves only to bring them even in the few Christian and Orthodox Countries to the Profession not to the Knowledg Belief or Practice of the True Religion You say corrupt Nature inclines Men from the True Religion to false ones and moderate Force is requisite to make such Men consider But such Men as out of corrupt Nature and for their Ease and carnal Pleasures chuse an erroneous Religion without considering will again as soon as they can find their Choice incommoded by those Penalties consult the same corrupt Nature and carnal Appetites and without considering any thing further conform to that Religion where they can best enjoy themselves 'T is only the conscientious part of Dissenters such as dissent not out of Indulgence to corrupt Nature but out of Perswasion who will not conform without considering as they ought And therefore your Argument from corrupt Nature is out of doors If moderate Penalties serve only to work on those who are led by corrupt Nature they are of no use but to fill the Church with Hypocrites that is to make those Men worse Hypocrites than they were before by a new Act of Hypocrisy and to corrupt the Manners of the rest of the Church by their converse with these And whether this be for the Salvation of Souls as is pretended or for some other End that the Priests of all Religions have generally so earnestly contended for it I leave to be consider'd For as for those who dissent out of Perswasion I suspect your moderate Penalties will have little effect upon them For such Men being awed by the Fear of Hell-fire if that Fear will not make them consider better than they have done moderate Penalties will be too weak to work upon them 'T is well if Dragooning and Martyring can do it But you add May it not be true nevertheless that Force your way applied may be serviceable indirectly and at a distance to bring Men to imbrace the Truth which may save them which is all you are concerned here to make good So that if it may possibly happen that it should ever bring two Men to
Nonconformity are intended to make all Men consider where 't is known that a great Number under the Magistrates Power are dispensed with and privileged from those Penalties How many omitting the Jews are there for example in the King of England's Dominions under his Care and Power of the Walloon and French Church to whom Force is never apply'd and they live in Security from it How many Pagans are there in the Plantations many whereof born in His Dominions of whom there was never any care taken that they should so much as come to Church or be in the least instructed in the Christian Religion And yet must we believe or can you pretend that the Magistrates use of Force against Nonconformists is to make all his Subjects consider so as to be convinc'd of and imbrace the Truth that must save them If you say in your way you mean no such Indulgence I answer the Question is not of yours but the Magistrates Intention though what your Intention is who would have the want of Consideration or Knowledg in Conformists exempt from Force is visible enough Again Those Penalties cannot be supposed to be intended to make Men consider which are laid on those who have or may have already considered And such you must grant to be the Penalties laid in England on Nonconformists unless you will deny that any Nonconformist has or can consider so as to be convinced or believe and imbrace the Truth that must save him So that you cannot vouch the Intention of the Magistrate where his Laws say nothing much less affirm that Force is intended to produce a certain end in all his Subjects which is not applied to them all and is applied to some who have attained that end already Unless you have a Privilege to affirm against all appearance whatsoever may serve your Cause But to learn some Moderation in this I shall send you to my Pagans and Mahumetans For whatever charitable wishes Magistrates may sometimes have in their Thoughts which I meddle not with no Body can say that in making the Laws or in the use of Force we are speaking of they intended to mâ—…ke Men consider and examine so as to be convinced of and heartily to imbrace the Truth that must save them but he that gives himself the Liberty to say any thing The Service that Force does indirectly and at a distance you tell us in the following Page is to make People apply thâ—…mselves to the use of those Means and Helps which are proper to make them what they are designed to be In the Case before us What are Men designed to be Holy Believers of the Gospel in this World without which no Salvation no seeing of God in the next Let us see now whether Force your way applied can be suted to such a Design and so intended for that End You hold That all out of the National Church where the Religion of the National Church is true should be punished and ought to have Force used to them And again you grant That those who are in the Communion of the National Church ought not to be punished or be under the stroke of Force nor indeed in your way can they If now the effect be to prevail with Men to consider as they ought so that they may become what they are designed to be How can any one think that you and they who use Force thus intend in the use of it that Men should really be Christians both in Perswasion and Practice without which there is no Salvation if they leave off Force before they have attained that effect Or how can it be imagined that they intend any thing but Conformity by their use of Force if they leave off the use of it as soon as Men conform Unless you will say that an outward Conformity to the National Church whose Religion is the true Religion is such an imbracing of the Truth as is sufficient to Salvation Or that an outward Profession of the Christian Religion is the same with being really a Christian which possibly you will not be very forward to do when you recollect what you meet with in the Sermons and Printed Discourses of Divines of the Church of England concerning the Ignorance and Irreligion of Conformists themselves For Penalties can never be thought by any one but he that can think against common Sense and what he pleases to be intended for any End which by that Constitution and Law whereby they are imposed are to cease before that End be attained And will you say that all who are conformable have so well considered that they believe and heartily imbrace the Truths of the Gospel that must save them When perhaps it will be found that a great many Conformists do not so much as understand them But the Ignorance or Irreligiousness to be found amongst Consormists which your way of talking forces me in some Places to take notice of let me here tell you once for all I lay not the blame of upon Conformity but upon your use of Force to make Men conform For whatever the Religion be true or false it is natural for Force and Penalty so applied to bring the irreligious and those who are careless and unconcerned for the true into the National Profession But whether it be fitter for such to be kept out rather than by Force to be driven into the Communion of any Church and owned as Members of it those who have a due Care and Respect for truly religious and pious Conformists were best consider But farther if as you say the opposition to the true Religion lies only in Mens Lusts it having Light and Strength enough were it not for that to prevail and it is upon that account only that Force is necessary there is no necessity at all to use Force on Men only till they conform and no farther Since I think you will not deny but that the Corruption of Humane Nature is as great in Consormists as in Nonconformists in the Professors of as in the Dissenters from the National Religion And therefore either Force was not necessary before or else it is necessary still after Men are Conformists Unless you will say that it is harder for a Man to be a Professor than a Christian indeed And that the true Religion by its own Light and Strength can without the help of Force prevail over a Man's Lusts and the Corruption of his Nature but it has need of the help of Force to make him a Conformist and an outward Professor And so much for the Effect which is intended by him that uses it in that use of Force which you defend The other Argument you bring to shew that your indirect and at a distance Vsefulness of Force your way apply'd is not by accident is the frequent Success of it Which I think is not the true Mark of what is not by accident for an Effect may not be by accident though it has never been produced but once
of Correction is to drive Foolishness from a Child or to work Wisdom in him Because the Rod works on the Will of the Child to obey the Reason of the Father whilst under his Tuition and thereby makes it supple to the Dictates of his own Reason afterwards and disposes him to obey the Light of that when being grown to be a Man that is to be his Guide and this is Wisdom If your Penalties are so used I have nothing to say to them Your way is charg'd to be impracticable to those Ends you purpose which you indeavour to clear p. 63. That there may be fair play on both sides the Reader shall have in the same view what we both say 〈◊〉 2. p. 57. It remains now to examine whether the Author's Argument will not hold good even against Punishments in your way For if the Magistrate's Authority be as you here say only to procure all his Subjects mark what you say ALL HIS SVBJECTS the means of discovering the way of Salvation and to procure 〈◊〉 as much as in him lies that NONE remain ignorant of it or refuse to embrace it 〈◊〉 for want of using those means or by reason of any such prejudices as may render them 〈◊〉 If this be the Magistrate's business in reference to ALL HIS SUBJECTS I desire you or any Man else to tell me how this can be done by the application of Force only to a part of them Unless you will still vainly suppose ignorance negligence or prejudice only amongst that part which any-where differs from the Magistrate If those of the Magistrate's Church may be ignorant of the way of Salvation If it be possible there may be amongst them those who refuse to imbrace it eâ—…her for want of using those means or by reason of any such prejudices as may render them ineffectual What in this case becomes of the Magistrate's Authority to procure all his Subjects the means of discovering the way of Salvation Must these of his Subjects be neglected and left without the means be has Authority to procure them Or must he use Force upon them too And then pray shew me how this can be done Shall the Magistrate punish those of his own Religion to procâ—…re them the means of discovering the the way of Salvation and to procure as much as in him lies that they remain not ignor an t of it or refuse not to imbrace it These are such contradictions in Practice this is such condemnation of a Man 's own Religion as no one can expect from the Magistrate and I dare say you desire not of him And yet this is that he must do If his Authority be to procure ALL his Subjects the means of discovering the way to Salvation And if it be so needful as you say it is that he should use it I am sure Force cannot do that till it be apply'd wider and Punishment be laid upon more than you would have it For if the Magistrate be by Force to procure as much as in him lies that NONE remain ignorant of the way of Salvation must he not punish all those who are ignorant of the way of Salvation And pray tâ—…ll me how is this any way practicable but by supposing none in the National Church ignorant and all out of it ignorant of the way of Salvation Which what is it but to punish Men barely for not being of the Magistrate's Religion The very thing you deny he has Authority to do So that the Magistrate having by your own confession no Authority thus to use Force and it being otherways impracticable for the procuring all his Subjects the means of discovering the way of Salvation there is an end of Force And so Force being laid aside either as unlawful or unpracticable the Author's Argument holds good against Force even in your way of applying it L. 3. p. 63. But how little to the purpose this Request of yours is will quickly appear For if the Magistrate provides sufficiently for the instruction of all his Subjects in the true Religion and then requires them all under convenient Penalties to hearken to the Teachers and Ministers of it and to profess and 〈◊〉 it with one accord under their 〈◊〉 in Publick Assembâ—…ies Is there any prctence to say that in so doing he applies Force only to a part of his Subjects when the Law is general and excepts none ' â—…is true the Magistrate insticts the Penalties in that ease only upon them that break the Law But is that the the thing you mean by his applying Force only to a part of his Subjects Would you have him punish all indifferently them that obey the Law as well as them that do not As to Ignorance Negligence and Prejudice I desire yâ—…u or any Man â—…lse to tell me what better course can be taken to câ—…re them than that which I have mentioned For if after all that God's Ministers and the Magistrate can do some will still remain ignorant negligent or prejudiced I do not take that to be any disparagement to it For certainly that is a very extraordinary Remedy which infassibly cures all discas'd Persons to whom it is applied The Backwardness and Lusts that hinder an impartial Examination as you describe it is general The Corruption of Nature which hinders a real imbracing the true Religion that also you tell us here is universal I ask a Remedy for these in your way You say the Law for Conformity is general excepts none Very likely none that do not conform but punishes none who conforming do neither impartially examine nor really imbrace the true Religion From whence I conclude there is no corruption of Nature in those who are brought up or join in outward Communion with the Church of England But as to Ignorance Negligence and Prejudice you say you desire me or any Man else to tell what better course can be taken to cure them than that which you have mentioned If your Church can find no better way to cure Ignorance and Prejudice and the Negligence that is in Men to examine Matters of Religion and heartily imbrace the true than what is impracticable upon Conformists then of all others Conformists are in the most deplorable Estate But as I remember you have been told of a better way which is the 〈◊〉 with Men seriously and friendly about Matters in Religion by those whose Prosession is the Care of Souls examining what they do understand and where either through Laziness Prejudice or Dissiculty they do stick and applying to their several Diseases proper Cures which it is as impossible to do by a general Harangue once or twice a Week out of the Pulpit as to sit all Mens Feet with one Shoe or cure all Mens Ails with one though very wholsome Diet-drink To be thus instant in season and out of season some Men have thought a better way of Cure than a Desire only to have Men driven by the Whip either in your or the Magistrate's
will become of the true Religion which according to you cannot subsist or prevail without either the Assistance of Miracles or Authority Subjects cannot have the Assistance of Authority where the Magistrate is not of the true Religion and the Magistrate wanting the assistance of Authority to bring him to the true Religion that want must be still supplied with Miracles or else according to your Hypothesis all must go to wrack and the True Religion that cannot subsist by its own Strength and Light must be lost in the World For I presume you are scarce yet such an Adorer of the Powers of the World as to say that Magistrates are privileged from that common Corruption of Mankind whose opposition to the true Religion you suppose cannot be overcome without the assistance of Miracles or Force The Flock will stray unless the Bell-weather conduct them right the Bell-weather himself will stray unless the Shepherd's Crook and Staff which he has as much need of as any Sheep of the Flock keep him right Ergo The whole Flock will stray unless the Bell-weather have that assistance which is necessary to conduct him right The Case is the same here So that by your own Rule either there was no need of Miracles to supply the want of Force after the Apostles time or there is need of them still But your Answer when looked into has something in it more excellent I say a Religion that is of God wants not the assistance of Humane Authority to make it prevail You answer True when God takes the matter into his own Hands But when once he has sufficiently settled Religion so that if Men will but do what they may and ought it may subsist without that extraordinary assistance from Heaven then he leaves it to their Care Where you suppose if Men will do their Duties in their several Capacities true Religion being once establish'd may subsist without Miracles And is it not as true that if they will in their several Capacities do what they may and ought true Religion will also subsist without Force But you are sure Magistrates will do what they may and ought to preserve and propagate the true Religion but Subjects will not If you are not you must bethink your self how to answer that old Question Sed quis custodiet 〈◊〉 Custodes To my having said that prevailing without the assistance of Force I thought was made use of as an Argument for the Truth of Christian Religion You reply that you hope I am mistaken for sure this is a very bad Argument That the Christian Religion so contrary in the 〈◊〉 of is as well to Elesh and Blood as to the Powers of Darkness should prevail as it did and that not only without any assistance from Authority but even in spight of all the opposition which Authority and a wicked World joined with those infernal Powers could make against it This I acknowledg has deservedly been insisted upon by Christians as a very good proof of their Religion But to argue the Truth of the Christian Religion from its â—…eer prevailing in the World without any aid from Force or the assistance of the Powers in being as is whatever Religion should so prevail must needs be the true Religion whatever may be intended is really not to desend the Christian Religion but to beâ—…ray it How you have mended the Argument by putting in â—…eer which is not any where used by me I will not examine The Question is whether the Christian Religion such as it was then for I know not any other Christian Religion and is still contrary to the Flesh and Blood and to the Powers of Darkness prevail'd not without the assistance of Humane Force by those aids it has still This I think you will not deny to be an Argument used for its Truth by Christians and some of our Church How far any one in the use of this Argument pleases or displeases you I am not concern'd All the use I made of it was to shew that it is confessed that the Christian Religion did prevail without that Humane Means of the coactive Power of the Magistrate which you assumed to be necessary and this I think makes good the Experiment I brought Nor will your seeking your way a Refuge in Miracles help you to evade it as I have already shewn But you give a Reason for what you say in these following words For neither does the True Religion always prevail without the Assistance of the Powers in being nor is that always the True Religion which does so spread and prevail Those who use the Argument of its prevailing without Force for the Truth of the Christian Religion 't is like will tell you that if it be true as you say that the Christian Religion which at other times does some-times does not prevail without the Assistance of the Powers in being it is because when it fails it wants the due Assistance and Diligence of the Ministers of it How shall they hear without a Preacher How shall the Gospel be spread and prevail if those who take on them to be the Ministers and Preachers of it either neglect to teach it others as they ought or confirm it not by their Lives If therefore you will make this Argument of any use to you you must shew where it was that the Ministers of the Gospel doing their Duty by the Purity of their Lives and their interrupted Labour in being instant in season and out of season have not been able to make it prevail An Instance of this 't is believed you will scarco find And if this be the case that it fails not to prevail where those whose Charge it is neglect not to teach and spread it with that Care Assiduity and Application which they ought you may hereafter know where to lay the blame Not on the Want of sufficient Light and Strength in the Gospel to prevail wherein methinks you make very bold with it but on the want of what the Apostle requires in the Ministers of it some part whereof you may read in these Words to Timothy But thou O Man of God follow after Righteousness Godliness Faith Love Patience Meekness Give Attendance to Reading to Exhortation to Doctrine preach the Word be instant in season and out of season reprove rebuke exhort with all Long-suffering and Doctrine And more to this purpose in his Epistles to Timothy and Titus That the Christian Religion has prevail'd and supported it self in the World now above these 1600 Years you must grant and that it has not been by Force is Demonstration For where-ever the Christian Religion prevail'd it did it as far as we know any thing of the means of its Propagation and Support without the help of that Force moderate Force which you say is alone useful and necessary So that if the Severities you condemn be as you confess apter to hinder than promote the Gospel and it has no where had the Assistance of your
been totally extinguish'd out of the World and have so continued unless by Miracle and immediate Revelation restor'd For those Men i. e. the Magistrates upon whose being of the True Religion the Preservation of it according to you depends living all of them under a free Toleration must needs lose the True Religion effectually and speedily from among them aâ—…d they quitting the True Religion the assistance of Force which should support it against a general Defection be utterly lost The Princes of the World are I suppose as well infected with the depraved Nature of Man as the rest of their Brethren These whether 100 or 1000 suppose they lived together in one Society wherein with the True Religion there were a free Toleration and no Coactive Power of the Magistrate imployed about Matters of Religion would the True Religion be soon extirpated amongst them If you say it would not you must grant Toleration not to be so destructive of the True Religion as you say or you must think them of another race than the rest of corrupt Men and free from that general Taint If you grant that the True Religion would be quickly extirpated amongst them by Toleration living together in one Society the same will happen to them living as Princes where they are free from all Coactive Power of the Magistrate in Matters of Religion and have as large a Toleration as can be imagin'd Unless you will say that depraved humane Nature works less in a Prince than a Subject and is most tame most mortified where it has most Liberty and Temptation Must not then if your Maxim be true Toleration quickly deprive the few Orthodox Princes that are in the World take it when you will of the True Religion and with them take away the Assistance of Authority which is necessary to support it amongst their Subjects Toleration then does not whatever your Fears are make that woful wrack on True Religion which you talk of I shall give you another Evidence of it and then come to examine your great Reason taken from the Corruption of humane Nature and the Instance you so often repeat and build so much on the Apostacy after the Flood Toleration you sav would quickly and effectually extirpate the True Reiigion throughout the World What now is the Means to preserve True Religion in the World If you may be believed 't is Force but not all Force great Severities Fire Faggot Imprisonment loss of Estate c. These will do more harm than good 't is only lower and moderate Penaltics some tolerable Inconveniences can do the business If then moderate Force hath not been all along no nor any where made use of for the Preservation of the True Religion the Maintenance and Support of the True Religion in the World has not been owing to what you oppose to Toleration And so your Argument against Toleration is out of doors You give us in this and the foregoing Pages the Grounds of your Fear It is the Corruption of humane Nature which opposes the True Religion You express it thus Idolatry prevailing against it the True Reigion not by its own Light and Strength for it could have nothing of either but meerly by the Advantage it had in the Corruption and Pravity of humane Nature finding out to it self more agreeable Religions than the true For say you whatever Hardships some False Religions may impose it will however always be easier to carnal and worldly-minded Men to give even their First-born for their Transgressions than to mortify their Lusts from which they spring which no Religion but the True requires of them I wonder saying this how you could any longer mistake the Magistrate's Duty in reference to Religion and not see wherein Force truly can and ouâ—…ht to be serviceable to it What you have said plainly shews you that the Assistance the Magistrate's Authority can give to the True Religion is in the subduing of Lusts and its being directed against Pride Injustice Rapine Luxury and Debauchery and those other Immoralities which come properly under his Cognisance and may be corrected by Punishments and not by the imposing of Creeds and Ceremonics as you tell us Sound and Decent you might have left out whereof their Fancies and not the Law of God will always be Judg and consequently the Rule The Case between the true and false Religions as you have stated it in short sounds thus True Religion has always Light and 〈◊〉 of its own sufficient to prevail with all that seriously consider it and without prejudice 〈◊〉 or False Religions have nothing of Light or Strength to prevail with Why then does not the true Religion prevail against the false having so much the advantage in Light and Strength The Counter-ballance of Prejudice hinders And wherein does that Strâ—…ngth The Drunkard must part with his Cups and Companions and the Voluptuous Man with his Pleasures The Proud and Vain must lay by all Excess in Apparel Furniture and Attendance and Money the support of all these must be got only by the ways of Justice Honesty and fair Industry And every one must live peaceably uprightly and friendly with his Neighbour Here then the Magistrate's aâ—…istance is wanting Here they may and ought to interpose their Power and by Severities against Drunkenness Laciviousnes and all sorts of Debauchery by a steady and unrelaxed Punishment of all the ways of Fraud and Injustice and by their Administration Countenance and Example reduce the Irregularities of Mens Manners into order and bring Sobriety Peaceableness Industry and Honesty into Fashion This is their proper Business every-where and for this they have a Commission from God both by the Light of Nature and Revelation and by this removing the great Counterpoise which lies in strictness of Life and is so strong a Bias with the greatest part against the true Religion they would cast the Ballance on that â—…de For if Men were forced by the Magistrate to live sober honest and strict Lives whatever their Religion were would not the advantage be on the side of Truth when the gratifying of their Lusts were not to be obtained by for saking her In Mens Lives lies the main Obstacle to right Opinions in Religion and if you will not believe me yet what a very rational Man of the Church of England says in the case will deserve to be remembred Did Religion bestow Heaven without any Forms and Conditions indifferently upon all If the Crown of Life was Hereditary and free to good and bad and not settled by Covenant upon the Elect of God only such as live soberly righteously and godly in this present World I believe there would be no such thing as an Insidel among us And without Controversy 't is the way and means of attaining to Heaven that makes profane Scoffers so willing to let go the expeclation of it 'T is not the Articles of the Creed but their Dury to God and their Neighbâ—…r that is such an
inconsiâ—…tent incredible Legend They will not practise the Rules of Religion and therefore they cannot believe the Doctrines of it The ingenious Author will pardon me the change of one word which I doubt not but 〈◊〉 his Opinion though it did not so well that Argument he was then on You grant the true Religion has always Light and Strength to prevail 〈◊〉 Religions have neither Take away the satisfaction of Men Lusts and which then I pray hath the advantage Will Men against the Light of their Reason do violence to their Understandings and for sake Truth and Salvation too gratis You tell us here No Religion but the true requires of Men the difficult Task of mortifying their Lust s. This being granted you what Service will this do you to prove a necessity of Force to punish all Disseuters in England Do none of their Religions require the mortisying of Lusts as well as yours And now let us consider your Instance whereon you build so much that we hear of it over and over again For you tell us Idolatry 〈◊〉 but yet not by the help of Force as has been sufficiently 〈◊〉 And again That Truth left to shift for her self will not 〈◊〉 well enough has been sufficiently 〈◊〉 What you have done to shew this is to be seen where you tell us Within how few Generations after the â—…ood the Worship of False Gods prevail'd against the Religion which Noah professed and taught his Children which 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the true Religion almost to the â—…tter exclusion of it though that at 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was the only Religion in the World without any Aid from â—…orce or the Assistance of the Powers in being for any thing we find in the History of those Times as we may reasonably believe considering that it found an entrance into the World and entertainment in it when it could have no such Aid or Assistance Of which besides the Corruption of Humane Nature you suppose there can no other Cause be assigned or none more probable than this that the Powers then in being did not do what they might and ought to have done towards the preventing or checking that horrible Apostacy Here you tell us that the Worship of False Gods within a very few Generations after the Flood prevail'd against the true Religion almost to the â—…tter exclusion of it This you say indeed but without any Proofs and unless that be shewing you have not as you pretend any way shewn it Out of what Records I beseech you have youâ—… that the true Religion was almost wholly extirpated out of the Woâ—…ld within a few Generations after the Flood The Scripture the largest History we have of those Times says 〈◊〉 of it nor does as I remember mention any as guilty of Idolatry within 2 or 300 Years after the Flood In Canaan it self I do not think that you can out of any credible History 〈◊〉 tâ—…at thâ—…re was any Idolatry within ten or twelve Generations after Noah much less that it had so overspread the World and extirpated the true Religion out of that part of it where the Scene lay of those Actions recorded in the History of the Bible In Abraham's 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 who was King of 〈◊〉 was also the Priest of the most High God We read that God with an immediate Hand punish'd miraculously first 〈◊〉 at the Confusion of Babel and afterward Sodom and four other Cities but in neither of these Places is there any the leâ—…st mention of Idolatry by which they provoked God and drew down Vengeance on themselves So that truly you have shewn nothing at all and what the Scripture shews is against you For besides that it is plain bâ—… Melchisedeck the King of Saleâ—… and Priest of the most High God to whom Abraham paid Tithes that all the Land of Canaan was not yet overspread with Idolatry though afterwards in the Time of 〈◊〉 by the forsciture was therefore made of it to the Israelites one may have reason to suspect it were more desiled with it than any part of the World Besides Salem I say he that reads the Story of Abimelech will have reason to think that he also and his Kingdom though Philistines were not then infected with Idolatry You think they and almost all Mankind were Idolaters but you may be mistaken and that which may serve to shew it is the Example of Elijah the Prophet who was at least as infallible a Guesser as you and was as well instructed in the State and History of his own Country and Time as you can be in the State of the whole World 3 or 4000 Years ago Elijah thought that Idolatry had wholly extirpated the true Religion out of Israel and complains thus to God The Children of Israel have for saken thy Covenant thrown down thy Altars and stain thy Prophets with the Sword and I even I alone am left and they seek my Life to take it away And he is so fully perswaded of it that he repeats it again and yet God tells him that he had there yet 7000 Knees that had not bowed to Baal 7000 that were not Idolaters though this was in the Reign of Ahab a King zealous for Idolatry and in a Kingdom set up in an Idolatrous Worship which had continued the National Religion established and promoted by the continued Succession of several Idolatrous Princes And though the National Religions soon after the Flood were false which you are far enough from proving how does it thence follow that the true Religion was near extirpated which it must needs quite have been before St. Peter's time if there were so great reason to fear as you tell us That the true Religion without the assistance of Force would in a much shorter time than any one that does not well consider the matter would imagine be most effectually extirpated throughout the World For above 2000 Years after Noah's time St. Peter tells us That in every Nation he that search God and worketh 〈◊〉 is accepted by him By which Words and by the occaâ—…ion on which they were spoken it is manifest that in Countries where for 2000 Years together no Force had been used for the support of Noah's true Religion it was not yet wholly 〈◊〉 But that you may not think it was so near that there was but one left only Cornelius if you will look into Acts XVII 4. you will find a great Multitude of them at Thessalonica And of the devoâ—…t Greeks a great Multitude believed and consorted with Paul and Silas And again more of them in Aâ—…ens a City wholly given to Idolâ—…try For that those 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which we translate devout and whereof many are mentioned in the Acts were Genâ—…iles who worshipped the true God and kept the Precepts of Noâ—… Mr. Mede has abundantly proved So that what â—…ever you â—…ho have well considered the matter may imagine of the shortness of time wherein Noah's Religion would be effectually extirpated
throughout the World without the assistance of Force we find it at Athens at Philippi at 〈◊〉 amongst the Româ—…ns in Antioch of Pisidia in Thâ—…ssalonica above 2000 Years after and that not so near being extinguish'd but that in some of those Places the Professors of it were numerous at Thessalonica they are call'd a great Multitude at 〈◊〉 many and how many of them there were in other parts of the World whereof there was no occasion to make mention in that short History of the 〈◊〉 of the Apostles who knows If they answered in other Places to what were found in these as â—…hat reason is there to suppose they should not I think we may imagine them to be as many as there were effectually of the true Religion Christians in Europe a little before the Reformation not withstanding the assistance the 〈◊〉 Religion had from Authority after the withdrawing of Miraâ—…les But you have a Salvo for you write warily and endeavour to save your self on all handâ—… you say There is great reason to fear that without God's EXTRAORDINARY PROVIDENCE it would in a much shorter time than any one who does not well consider the matter would imagine be most 〈◊〉 extirpated by it throughout the World 'T is without doubt the Provideâ—…ce of God which governs the Aâ—…airs both of the World and his Church and to that whether you call it Ordinary or Extraordinary you may trust the Preservation of his Church without the use of such Means as he has no where appointed or authorized You fancy Force necessary to preserve the True Religion and hence you conclude the Magistrate authorized without any farther Commission from God to use it if there be no other Means left and therefore that must be used If Religion should be preserved without it it is by the Extraordinary Providence of God where Extraordinary signiâ—…cs nothing but begging the thing in question The true Religion has been preserved many Ages in the Church without Force Ay say you that was by the Extraordinary Providâ—…ce of God His Providence which over-rules all Events we eaâ—…ly grant it But why Extraordinary Providence because Force was 〈◊〉 to preserve it And why was Force 〈◊〉 because otherwise without Extraordinary Providence it cannot be preserv'd In such Circles covered under good Words but misapplied one might shew you taking many a Turn in your answer if it were â—…it to waste others time to trace your Wanderings God has appointed Preaching Teaching Perswaâ—…on Instruction as a means to continue and propagate his true Religion in the World and if it were any where preserved and propagated without that we might call it his Extraordinary Providence but the means he has appointed being used we may conclude that Men have done their Duties and so may leave it to his Providence however we will call it to preserve the little Flock which he bids not to fear to the end of the World But let us return again to what you say to make good this Hypothesis of yours That Idolatry entred first into the World by the Contrivance and spread it self by the Endeavours of private Men without the Assistance of the Magistrates and those in Power To prove this you tell us That it found Entrance into the World and Entertaâ—…nment in it when it could have no such Aid or Assistance When was this I bâ—…eech you that Idolatry found this Entrance into the World Under what King's Reign was it that you are so positive it could have no such Aid or Assistance If you had named the time the thing though of no great momâ—…nt to you had been sure But now we may very justly question this bare Assertion of yours For since we find as far back as we have any History of it that the great Men of the World were always forward to set up and promote Idolatry and False Religions you ought to have given us some reason why without Authority from History you aâ—…irm that Idolatry at its entrance into the World had not that Assistance from Men in Power which it never fail'd of afterwards Who they were that made Israel to sin the Scripture tells us Their Kings were so zealous Promoters of Idolatry that there is 〈◊〉 one of them that has not that Brand left upon him in holy Writ One of the first False Religions whose rise and way of propagating we have an account of in Sacred History was by an ambitious Usurper who having rebell'd against his Master with a False Title set up a False Religion to secure his Power and Dominion Why this might not have been done before Jeroboam's days and Idols set up at other places as well as at Dan and Bethel to serve politick Ends will need some other Proof than barely saying it could not be so at first The Devil unless much more ignorant was not less busy in those days to engage Princes in his favour and to weave Religion into Affairs of State the better to introduce his Worship and support Idolatry by accommodating it to the Ambition Vanity or Superstition of Men in Power and therefore you may as well say that the Corruption of humane Nature as that the Assistance of the Powers in being did not in those days help forward False Religions because your Reading has furnish'd you with no particular mention of it out of History But you need but say that the Worship of False Gods prevail'd without any aid from Force or the assistance of the Powers in being for any thing we find in the History of those times and then you have sufficiently 〈◊〉 what even that you have just nothing to shew for your Assertion But whatever that any thing is which you find in History you may meet with Men whose reading yet I will not compare with yours who think they have found in History that Princes and those in Power first corrupted the True Religion by setting up the Images and Symbols of their Predecessors in their Temples which by their Influence and the ready Obedience of the Priests they appointed were in succession of Time propos'd to the People as Objects of their Worship Thus they think they find in History that 〈◊〉 Queen of Egypt with her Counsellor Thoth instituted the Funeral-Rites of King Osirâ—… by the Honour done to the sacred Ox. They think they find also in History that the â—…ame Thoth who was also King of Egypt in his turn invented the Figures of the first Egyptian Gods Saturn Dagon Jupiter Hammon and the rest that is the Figures of their Statues or Idols and that he instituted the Worship and Sacrifices of these Gods And his Institutions were so well assisted by thâ—…se in Authority and observed by the 〈◊〉 they set up that the Worship of those Gods soon became the Religion of that and a Pattern to other Nations And here we may perhaps with good reason place the rise and original of Idolatry after the Flood there being nothing of this kind more ancient So
ready was the Ambition Vanity or Superstition of Princes to introduce their Predecessors into the Divine Worship of the People to secure to themselves the greater Veneration from their Subjects as descended from the Gods or to erect such a Worship and such a Priesthood as might awe the blinded and seduced People into that Obedience they desired Thus Ham by the Authority of his Successors the Rulers of Egypt is first brought for the Honour of his Name and Memory into their Temples and never left till he is erected into a God and made Jupiter Hammon c. which Fashion took afterwards with the Princes of other Countries Was not the great God of the Eastern Nations Baal or Jupiter Belâ—… one of the first Kings of Assyria And which I pray is the more likely that Courts by their Instruments the Priests should thus advance the Honour of Kings amongst the People for the ends of Ambition and Power or the People find out these resined Ways of doing it and introduce them into Courts for the enslaving themselves What Idolatry does your History tell you of among the Greeks before Phoroncus and Danaus Kings of the Argives and Cecrops and Theseus Kings of 〈◊〉 and Cadmus King of Thebes introduced it An Art of Rule 't is probable they borrowed from the Egyptians So that if you had not vouch'd the Silence of History without consulting it you would possibly have found that in the first Ages Princes by their Influence and Aid by the Help and Artisice of the Priests they imploy'd their Fables of their Gods their Mysteries and Oracles and all the Assistance they could give it by their Authority did so much against the Truth before direct Force was grown into fashion and appear'd openly that there would be little reason of putting the Guard and Propagation of the True Religion into their hands now and arming them with Force to promote it That this was the Original of Idolatry in the World and that it was borrowed by other Magistrates from the Egyptians is farther evident in that this Worship was setled in Egypt and grown the National Religion there before the Gods of Greece and several other Idolatrous Countries were boâ—… For though they took their Pattern of Deifying their deceased Princes from the Egyptians and kept as near as they could to the Number and Genealogies of the Egyptian Gods yet they took the Names still of some great Men of their own which they accommodated to the Mythology of the Egyptians Thus by the assistance of the Powers in being Idolatry entred into the World after the Flood Whereof if there were not so clear Footsteps in History why yet should you not imagine Princes and Magistrates ingaged in False Religions as ready to imploy their Power for the maintaining and promoting their False Religions in those days as we find them now And therefore what you say in the next Words of the entrance of Idolatry into the World and the it sound in it will not pass for so very evident without Proof though you tell us never so considently that you suppose besides the Corruption of humane Nature there can no other Carse be assigned of it or none more probable than this That the Powers then in being did not what they might and ought to have done 〈◊〉 e. if you mean it to your purpose use Force your way to make Men consider or to impose Creeds and Ways of Worship towards the 〈◊〉 or checking that horrible Apostacy I grant that the entranee and growth of Idolatry might be owing to the Negligence of the Powers in being in that they did not do what they might and ought to have done in using their Authority to suppress the Enormities of Mens Manners and correct the Irregularity of their Lives But this was not all the Assistance they gave to that horrible Apostacy They were as for as History gives us any light the Promoters of it and Leaders in it and did what they ought not to have done by setting up False Religions and using their Authority to establish them to serve their corrupt and ambitious Designs National Religions establish'd by Authority and inforced by the Powers in being we hear of every where as far back as we have any account of the rise and growth of the Religions of the World Shew me any place within those few Generations wherein you say the 〈◊〉 prevail'd after the Flood where the Magistrates being of the True Religion the Subjects by the Liberty of a Toleration were lead into False Religions and then you will produce something against Liberty of Consâ—…ience But to talk of that great Apostacy as wholly owing to Toleration when you cannot produce one Instance of Toleration then in the World is to say what you please That the majority of Mankind were then and always have been by the Corruption and Pravity of humane Nature led away and kept from imbracing the True Religion is past doubt But whether this be owing to Toleration in Matters of Religion is the Question David describes an horrible Corruption and Apostacy in his time so as to say There is none that doth good no not one and yet I do not think you will say a Toleration then in that Kingdom was the cause of it If the greatest part cannot be ill without a Toleration I am afraid you must be fain to find out a Toleration in every Country and in all Ages of the World For I think it is true of all Times and Places that the Broad way that leadeth to Destruction has had most Travellers I would be glad to know where it was that Force your way apply'd i. e. with Punishments only upon Nonconformists ever prevail'd to bring the greater number into the Narrow-way that leads unto Life which our Saviour tells us there are sew that sind The Corrupâ—…on of Humane Nature you say opposes the True Religion I grant it you There was also say you an horrible Apostacy after the Flood let this also be granted you and yet from hence it will not follow that the True Religion cannot subsist and prevail in the World without the assistance of Force your way apply'd till you have shewn that the False Religions which were the Inventions of Men grew up under Toleration and not by the Encouragement and Assistance of the Powers in being How near soever therefore the True Religion was to be extinguish'd within a few Generations after the Flood which whether more in danger then than in most Ages since is more than you can shew This will be still the Question Whether the Liberty of Toleration or the Authority of the Powers in being contributed most to it And whether there can be no other nor more probable Cause assigned than the want of Force your way apply'd I shall leave the Reader to judg This I am sure whatever Causes any one else shall assign are as well proved as yours if they offer them only as their Conjectures Not but
True Religion a Pault to be punish'd by the Magistrate puts an end to your Pretence to moderate Punishments which in this place you make use of to distinguish yours from the French Method saying That your Method punishes Men with Punishments which do not deserve to be called so when compared with those of the French Discipline But if the Dissenting from the True Religion be a Fault that the Magistrate is to punish and a Fault of that consequence that it draws with it the loss of a Man's Soul I do not see how other Magistrates whose Duty it is to punish Faults under his Cognizance and by punishing to amend them can be more remiss than the King of France has been and foâ—…bear declaring that they will have all their People saved and endeavour by such Ways as he has done to effect it Especially since you tell us That God now leaves Religion to the Care of Men under his ordinary Providence to try whether they will do their Duties in their several Capacities or not leaving them answerable for all that may follow from their Neglect In the correcting of Faults Malo nodo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is not only what is justifiable but what is requisite But of this more fully in another place In the next place I do not see how by your Method as you explain it here the Magistrate can punish any one for not being of the True Religion though we should grant him to have a Power to do it whilst you tell us That your Method punishes Men for rejecting the True Religion propos'd to them with sufficient Evidence which certainly is a Fault By this Part of your Scheme it is plain that you allow the Magistrate to punish none but those to whom the True Religion is propos'd with sufficient Evidence And sufficient Evidence you tell us is such as will certainly win 〈◊〉 where-ever it is duty consider'd Now by this Rule there will be very few that the Magistrate will have right to punish since he cannot know whether those who dissent do it for want of due Consideration in them or want of sufficient Evidence in what is proposed unless you mean by due Consideration such Consideration that always does bring Men actually to 〈◊〉 which is in effect to say nothing at all For then your Rule amounts to thus much That sufficient Evidence is such as will certainly win Assent where-ever it is consider'd duly i. e. so as to win Assent This being like some of those other Rules we have met with and ending in a Circle Which after you have traced you at last sind your self just where you were at setting out I leave it to you to own as you think sit And tell you if by duly considering you mean considering to his utmost that then that which is propos'd to one with sufficient Evidence to win Assent may not be so to another There are Propositions extant in Geometry with their Demonstrations annexed and that with such sufficient Evidence to some Men of deep Thought and Penetration as to make them see the Demonstration and give Assent to the Truth Whilst there are many others and those no Noâ—…ices in Mathematicks who with all the Consideration and Attention they can use are never able to attain unto it 'T is so in other Parts of Truth That which hath Evidence enough to make one Man certain has not enough to make another so much as guess it to be true though he has spared no Endcavour or Application in examining it And therefore if the Magistrate be to punish none but those who reject the True Religion when it has been offer'd with sufficient Evidence I imagine he will not have many to punish if he will as he ought distinguish between the Innocent and the Guilty Upon your Forwardness to encourage the Magistrate's use of Force in Matters of Religion by its Usefulness even so far as to pretend Advantages from what your self acknowledge the Misapplication of it I say that So instead of 〈◊〉 from you give Encouragement to the Mischief which upon your Principle join'd to the natural Thirst in Man after Arbitrary Power may be carried to all manner of Exorbitancy with some Pretence of Right To which your Reply is That you speak on-where but of the Use and Necessity of Force What think you in the place mention'd of the Gain that you tell the Sufferers they shall make by the Magistrate's punishing them to bring them to a wrong Religion You do not as I remember there say that Force is necessary in that case Though they gaining as you say by it this Advantage that they know better than they did before where the Truth does 〈◊〉 You cannot but allow that such a Misapplication of Force may do some Service indirectly and at a distance towards the Salvation of Souls But that you may not think whilst I had under Consideration the dangerous Encouragement you gave to Men in Power to be very busy with their Force in Matters of Religion by all the â—…orts of Usefulness you could imagine of it however apply'd right or wrong that I declin'd mentioning the Necessity you pretend of Force because it would not as well serve to the purpose for which I mention its Usefulness I shall here take it so that the Reader may see what reason you had to complain of my not doing it before Thus then stands your System The procuring and advancing any way of the spiritual and eternal Interests of Men is one of the Ends of Civil Society And Force is put into the Magistrate's hands as necessary for the attaining those Ends where no other Means are left Who then upon your Grounds may quickly find Reason where it â—…utes his Inclination or serves his Turn to punish Men directly to bring them to his Religion For if he may use Force because it is necessary as being the only Means left to make Men consider those Reasons and Arguments which otherwise they would not consider Why may he not by the same Rule use Force as the only Means left to make Men degrees of G'ory which otherwise they would not attain and so to advance their eternal Interests For St. Paul 〈◊〉 us that the 〈◊〉 of this Life work for us a far more exceâ—…ding weight of Glory So that whether the Magistrate may not when it may serve his turn argue thus from your Principles judg you Dissenters from my Religion must be punish'd if in the wrong to bring them into the right Way if in the right to make them by their Sufferings Gainers of a far more exceeding weight of Glory But you say Unless it be as necessary for Men to attain any greater degree of Glory as it is to attain Glory it will not follow that if the Magistrate may use Force because it may be indirectly c. useful towards the procuring any degree of Glory he may by the same Rule use it where it may be in that manner
useful towards the procuring a greater degree of Glory But that there is the same necessity of Mens attaining a greater degree of Glory as there is of their attaining Glory no Man will affirm For without attaining Glory they cannot escape the Demnation of Hell which yet they may escape without any greater degree of Glory One of the Ends of a Commonwealth is say you the advancing Mens eternal Interests The procuring greater degrees of Glory is the advancing a Man 's eternal Interest The use of Force to make Men suffer for the Truth what otherwise they would not suffer is as necessary for the attaining an higher degree of Glory as using Force to make Men consider what otherwise they would not consider is necessary for the attaining any degree of Glory But you will say Attaining Glory is absolutely necessary but the attaining any greater degree of Glory however desirable is not so necessary Now if there be not the same necessity of the one of these as there is of the other there can be no Pretence to say that whatever is 〈◊〉 in respect of one of them is likewise so in respect of the other But there will always be a just Pretence to say if advancing the eternal Interests of Men be one of the Ends of a Commonwealth and that the Force in the Magistrate's hands be necessary to the attaining that End that then the Magistrate is obliged to use it whether you will think that End absolutely necessary or as necessary as another or no. I shall not here trouble you again with your Mistake about what is absolutely necessary having taken notice of it in another place Only I shall desire you to shew me that the attaining of Glory is absolutely necessary when next time you have occasion to affirm it Attaining of Glory is necessary in order to Happiness And attaining a greater degree of Glory is necessary in order to greater Happiness But neither of them is absolutely necessary but in order to their respective Ends. And now though as you say you do not think your self bound to take notice of all that may be done with some pretence of Right Yet I suppose upon cooler Thoughts when you have consider'd of what dangerous Consequence an Argument manag'd as yours is may be to the True Religion and the sincere Prosessors of it and what Occalion or Encouragement it may give to Men in Power warm'd with Zeal and excited by the proper Ministers of their own Religion to make a wrong and exorbitant Use of Force in Matters of Religion you will another time think your self bound not to let it go abroad again without some Caution to the Magistrate in the Use of it without one word of Advice at least that since it is given him as you say only for promoting the True Religion he should take care and examine impartially whether what he imploys it for be the one only True Religion It being your Opinion whenever he makes use of Force in Matters of Religion for the promoting any thing but that he goes beyond his Commission injures his Subjects and indangers his own Soul By this time Sir I suppose you see upon what Grounds I think you have not clear'd those Difficulties which were charg'd by me on your Method And my Reader will see what reason there was for those Imputations which with so loud an Out-cry you laid upon me of unfair Dealing since there is not one of them which cannot be made good to be contain'd either in your Book or in your Hypothesis and that so clearly that I could not imagine that a Man who had so far consider'd Government as to engage in Print in such a Controversy as this could miss seeing it as soon as mention'd to him One of them which very much offends you and makes you so often tell me what I say is impertinent and nothing to the purpose and sometimes to use warmer Expressions is that I argue against a Power in the Magistrate to bring Men to his own Religion For I could not imagine that to a Man of any Thought it could need proving that if there were a Commission given to all Magistrates by the Law of Nature which obliged them to use Force to bring Men to the True Religion it was not possible for them to put this Commission in execution without being Judges what was the True Religion and then there needed no great quickness to perceive that every Magistrate when your Commission came to be put in execution would one as well as another find himself obliged to use Force to bring Men to that which he believed to be the True Religion But since this was so hard for you to see I now have been at the pains to prove it and thereby to clear all thoseImputations I shall not instance in any other They are all of a like kind Only where you complain I have not cited your Words fairly if you can shew that I have done it any where in this or the Second Letter to the advantage of my Cause or to avoid any Argument in them not answered if you please to shew it me I shall either let you see your Mistake or acknowledg mine And now whether you shall think what I have said worth that Consideration you promise or take it all for Cavils and Impertinencies to me is very indifferent Enjoy if you please that short and easy way of answering But if the Party you write for be as you say God and the Souls of Men it will require you seriously to weigh your Scheme examine and put together the Parts of it observe its Tendency and Consequences and in a word consider Things and not Words For the Party of God and Souls needs not any Help from Obscurity or Uncertainty of general and equivocal Terms but may be spoke out clearly and distinctly Needs no retreat in the round of equivalent or the uncertainty of misapply'd Expressions that may serve to amuse and deceive the unwary but instruct no body And lastly needs no Leave nor Allowance from Men of Art to direct both Subjects and Magistrates to the Examination of the Scriptures wherein God has reveal'd to the World the Ways and Means of Salvation In doing of this in a Treatise where you profess the Subject of your Enquiry is only what Method is to be used to bring Men to the True Religion the Party you profess to write for would have justified you against the Rules of any lawful Art and no Christian Man of what Art soever would have denied you that Liberty And if I mistake not the Party you say you write for demands it of you If you find upon a Review of the whole that you have manag'd your Cause for God and the Souls of Men with that Sincerity and Clearness that satisfies your own Reason and you think may satisfy that of other Men I shall congratulate to you so happy a Constitution But if all your magnified and
24. Miracles say you supplied the want of Force till by their help Christianity had prevailed to be received for the Religion of the Empire Not that the Magistrates had not as much Commission then from the Law of Nature to use Force for promoting the true Religion as since But because the Magistrates then not being of the true Religion did not afford it the assistance of their Political Power If this be so and there be a necessity either of Force or Miracles will there not be the same Reason for 〈◊〉 ever since even to this Day and so on to the end of the World in all those Countries where the Magistrate is not of the true Religion Unless as you urge it you will say what without Impiety cannot be said that the wise and benign Disposer of all things has not furnished Mankind with competent means for the promoting his own Honour in the World and the good of Souls But to put an end to your pretence to Miracles as supplying the place of Force Let me ask you whether since the withdrawing of Miracles your moderate degree of Force has been made use of for the support of the Christian Religion if not then Miracles were not made use of to supply the want of Force unless it were for the supply of such Force as Christianity never had which is for the supply of just no Force at all or else for the supply of the Severities which have been in use amongst Christians which is worse than none at all Force you say is necessary what Force not Eire and Sword not loss of Eâ—…ates not maiming with Corporal Punishments not stâ—…ving and tormenting in 〈◊〉 Prisons those you condemn Not Compulsion these Severities you say are apter to hinder than promote the true Religion but moderate lower Penalties tolerable Inconveniencies such as should a little disturb and disease Men. This assistance not being to be had from the Magistrates in the First Ages of Christianity Miracles say you were continued till Christianity became the Religion of the Empire not so much for any necessity there was of them all that while for the evâ—…ncing the Truth of the Christian Râ—…ligion as to supply the want of the Magistrate's Assistance For the true Religion not being able to support it self by its own Light and Strength without the assistance either of Miracles or of Authority there was a necessity of the one or the other and therefore whilst the Powers in being assisted not with necessary Force Miracles supplied that want Miracles then being to supply necessary Force and necessary Force being only lower moderate Penalties some Inconveniâ—…ncies such as only disturb and disease a little If you cannot shew that in all Countries where the Magistrates have been Christian they have assisted with such Force 't is plain tâ—…at Miracles supplied not the want of necessary Force unless to supply the want of your necessary Force for a time were to supply the want of an Assistance which true Religion had not upon the withdrawing of Miracles and I think I may say was never thought on by any Authority in any Age or Country till you now above 1300 Years after made this happy discovery Nay Sir since the true Religion as you tell us cannot prevail or subsist without Miracles or Authority i. e. your moderate Force it must necessarily follow that the Christian Religion has in all Ages and Countries been accompanied either with actual Miracles or such Force which whether it be so or no I leave you and all sober Men to consider When you can shew that it has been so we shall have reason to be satisâ—… with your bold Assertion That the Christian Religion as delivered in the New Testament cannot prevail by its own Light and Strength without the assistance of your moderate Penalties or of actual Miracles accompanying it But if ever since the withdrawing of Miracles in all Christian Countries where Force has been thought necessary by the Magistrate to support the National or as every where it is called the true Religion those Severities have been made use of which you for a good Reason condemn as apter to hinder than promote the true Religion 't is plain that Miracles supplied the want of such an Assistance from the Magistrate as was apter to binder than promote the true Religion And your substituting of Miracles to supply the want of moderate Force will shew nothing for your Cause but the zeal of a Man so sond of Force that he will without any warrant from Scripture enter into the Counsels of the Almighty and without authority from History talk of Miracles and Political Anministrations as may best sute his System To my saying a Religion that is from God wants not the assistance of Humane Authority to make it prevail you answer This is not simply nor always true Indeed when God takes the matter wholly into his own Hands as he does at his first revealing any Religion there can be no need of any assistance of Humane Authority but when God has once sufficiently settled his Religion in the World so that if Men from thenceforth will do what â—…ey may and ought in their several Capacities to preserve and propagate it it may 〈◊〉 and prevail without that extraordinary Assistance from him which was necessary for its first establishment By this Rule of yours how long was there need of Miracles to make Christianity subsist and prevail If you will keep to it you will find there was no need of Miracles after the promulgation of the Gospel by Christ and his Apostles for I ask you was it not then so sufficiently settled in the World that if Men would from thenceforth have done what they might and ought in their several Capacities it would have subsisted and prevailed without that extraordinary assistance of Miracles unless you will on this occasion retract what you say in other places viz. that it is a Fault not to receive the true Religion where sufficient evidence is offered to convince Men that it is so If then from the times of the Apostles the Christian Religion has had sufficient evidence that it is the true Religion and Men did their Duty i. e. receive it it would certainly have subsisted and prevailed even from the Apostles Times without that extraordinary Assistance and then Miracles after that were not necessary But perhaps you will say that by Men in their several Capacities you mean the Magistrates A pretty way of speaking proper to you alone But even in that Sense it will not serve your turn For then there will be need of Miracles not only in the time you propose but in all times after For if the Magistrate who is as much subject as other Men to that Corruption of Humane Nature by which you tell us False Religions prevall against the True should not do what he may and ought so as to be of the true Religion as 't is the odds he will not what then