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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A20660 A disproufe of M. Novvelles reproufe. By Thomas Dorman Bachiler of Diuinitie Dorman, Thomas, d. 1577? 1565 (1565) STC 7061; ESTC S116516 309,456 442

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the worlde This one heade executed the censures of the churche vpon See M. Doctor Hardinges booke the seconde edition fol. 111. b. malefactours and transgressours of the ecclesiasticall canons confirmed the ordinations and elections off bishoppes approued or disalowed councelles restored bishoppes wrongfully condemned and depriued receiued into the church such as had erred and gone a straie and all this thorough out the whole worlde But with all this I saye I will not presse you because youre Apologie and you be it neuer so easy to be proued will yeat for your honour sake perhappes denie it Only this I aske of yow how yow be not ashamed to saie that it is impossible for one man to gouerne the whole churche seing by youre owne confession for 900. yeares it hathe bene so If yow will saie that the churche hathe bene euill gouerned these latter 900. yeares allthough that yow coulde right well proue as you shal neuer be hable what maketh that for this assertion off youres that one man can not possybly gouerne the whole churche conteining to vse yowre owne wordes so manie nations so diuerse Languages and natures of men Howe proueth it that one generall heade can not so ouersee his charge that he shall be able to kepe all churches from schismes and troubles and pacifie them when they are risen If one man alone coulde for the space of 900. yeares so rule all churches dispersed thorough out all the worlde that he Note was able to plant emongest so manie nations so diuerse languages and natures of men one naughty and corrupte faithe as yow saie might not the same or maye not an other with as muche facilitie haue planted or plant if it were to be planted a truthe thorough out the whole worlde If the churche haue bene so gouerned during this terme of 900. yeares that all the affaires of the churche haue by one heade bene so ordered that no membre hath had iust cause to complaine that all membres haue agreed in perfecte quietnesse one with an other and all with their heade as youre selfe hereafter confesse allthough yow labour to qualifye the matter in this wise In deede we must nedes confesse a truthe M. Nowels confession cōcerning the quiet agrement vnder the gouernement off the Pope fol. 56. b. 25. that whilest we all remained vnder the quiet obedience off youre Romishe heade in doctrine of his traditiōs there was a coloured hinde of quietnesse concorde and loue emongest all the membres of that heade the subiectes of that one gouernour and ruler and specially emongest the cleargie of that one churche if I saye by youre confession there was suche a quiete agreing thorough out all the worlde in false doctrine will you still abide by it that the same one heade that gouerned in this peasable maner all the worlde whome he fedde with euill doctrine might not haue gouerned them as quietly if he had deliuerd to them sounde and wholesome doctrine Or will you saye that God can doe lesse in procuring good thinges then the diuell in promoting euill that God can make one man hable alone to gouerne all the worlde without schismes or to appease them being moued as great as it is in euill gouernement but not in good If you will not saye thus you must nedes saie that it is nothing impossible for one man assisted by goddes grace to gouerne the churche of the whole worlde were it greater then it is and so to confesse with all that the Apologie in saing the contrary and yow in defending the Apologie haue bothe off yow falsely blasphemously and foolishely erred As for the reason whereunto the Apologie and yow leane that as God hathe giuen to no one king to be aboue all so to no one bishop to rule the whole churche that is as I tolde you before to appoint God because he hathe made manie kingdomes to make many heades of the churche which is but one and so consequently to multiply religions and make many faithes But because you repeate verie often this comparison and thinke it so absurde that there shoulde be any more one heade ouer the whole churche thē one chiefe king aboue all the kingdomes in the worlde I will here proue that within the first six hundred yeares it was taken for no absurditie There is no man I thinke that hathe bestowed anie time in the ecclesiasticall histories ignorant what a doe Theodora the Empresse wife to Iustinian the Emperour made to haue Siluerius the pope depriue Menna the good archebishop of Constantinople and to restore Anthimius the heretike laufully before by Agapetus the pope depriued To the which wicked attempt when by no meanes the good pope coulde be brought to consent false accusations were brought in against him and so he was by tirannie remoued and cōstreined to flee to a towne called Patara of the prouince of Lycia Whither the emperour Liberatus in Breuiario cap. 22. on a time comming the bishopp there as Liberatus the Archedeacon of Carthage writeth complaining to him and calling to witnesse the iust and terrible iudgemēt of God for the vniust expulsion of the bishop of so greate a seate addeth at the last these wordes Multos esse in hoc Many Kinges to gouerne the worlde one pope to gouerne the churche mundo reges non esse vnum sicut ille papa est super ecclesiam mundi totius a sua sede expulsus that there are manie kinges in this worlde and that there is no one only kinge as that pope is ouer all the whole churche of the worlde expelled from his seate Doe you not here see M. Nowell that within the first 600. yeares the whole worlde was gouerned by one heade in spirituall matters without anie necessitie to haue it so gouerned in temporall Woulde this good bishop is it credible being a suter to the Emperour if the churche had not bene gouerned by one heade at that time or if it had bene an absurditie that there shoulde be one chiefe bishop and manie equall kinges haue dasshed the Emperour in the mouthe with suche an absurde and flatte lye Or woulde the Emperour vpon this talcke immediatly haue caused Siluerius to be called backe againe into Italie and not rather haue checked the bishop for abusing him with a lye if he had not acknowledged his wordes to be true Thus muche I trust maye serue to make the indifferent reader vnderstande that I reprehended not the Apologie without iust cause You re railing against me because it is as youre selfe cōfesse fol. 39. a. beside the matter I passe ouer But so can I this by no meanes that yow take it for no reproche yow saye to haue Nowell b. 1. youre congregation secrete scattred and vnknowen to all the worlde because this is common to yow with the primitiue churche of oure Sauiour Christe and his holie Apostles Considre I beseche the good Reader whether these newe Dorman vpstart heretikes of oure age be not brought
this doe they for that they are not ignorant that suche Nowell though moste false sclaunders being yeat so importunely and cōtinually laied to oure charge are of muche effect to offende the weake and simple and to stirre vp their hatred against vs. And therefore they vse suche constant asseuerations for argumentes as in their schooles they are taught to doe when they are destitute of due prouffes c. If we sclaunder yow how easy a matter had it bene for Dorman yow to haue recouered youre good name by saing There be not so manie sectes sprong out of Luther as the table saieth there are and then haue named some suche as had bene falsely noted in the same The which because yowe haue not done not for lacke of good will as appeareth yow haue verie muche confirmed the truthe of the table Whereas yow stande vpon the bare deniall against manifest proufe yow make vs in deede remembre a saing of the schooles plus potest asinus negare quàm Aristoteles probare But because this table offendith yow so muche yow maie perchaunce shortly haue an other of allmoste 90. diuerse sectes gathered together by the reuerent father WILLIAM In Dubitantio suo LINDAN Bishop of RVREMVND But perhappes yow count this a sclaunder because yow acknowledge but one religion of Iesus Christ how manie sectes so euer there be emongest yow For so it foloweth For we as we haue no religion but onelye Christes so desire we Nowell to be called after the name of none but his c. Whiche we M. Nowell For so saieth euerye secte Dorman in the table aswell as yowe sacramentaries doe It is not inough for you to saye that you haue no religion but the religion of Christ the contrarie whereof neuer heretike durst yeat in wordes professe Proue it first then saie it afterwardes Begin from the Apostles and come to oure time and shewe youre religion in euery age as oures hathe A reasonable chalenge to the protestāts of late bene learnedly shewed and then bragge that you haue none but Christes religion We offer you faire refuse vs not in goddes name and in the behalfe of his church I saie refuse vs not If you dare and mistrust not your cause procure vs libertie freely to sende in oure bookes and to other indemnitie for hauing and reading thē It is the thing that if you meane as you pretende the planting of true religion in the hartes of all men you shoulde most earnestly haue desired refuse it not therfore being frely offered It is the thing that on youre knees ioyntely together with vs you ought to become humble petitioners to the Quenes moste excellent maiestie to voutchesaufe to graunte and to remoue all suche occasions as might stoppe or hinder in anie wise the course of so necessarie an attempt It is the waie to ende all controuersies to ceasse all striffes to restore vnitie to betraye schismatikes to make manifest the true catholikes and so consequently to make it appeare whether you haue no religion but only Christes The whiche saing of youres till you proue by this meanes wil be counted no better then a bragge common to all heretikes Thinke they that if we list and had leisor as they haue we coulde Nowell not frame an arbor or tree twise as greate as they haue deuised c. Now let this pleasant deuise of youres come furth when Dorman you wyll M. Nowell What shall you proue or wyn thereby No schisme no secte no cōtrarietie of opinions in doctrine of the faith cā ye proue or shew there No blasphemy against the blessed Trinite no heresy against the Sacramēts of Christes church against the godhead of Christ against our blessed lady no article of our Crede denied shal you finde in that your deuised arbor as in the table of your petigrue M. Nowel all such thinges are to be founde But thinke you againe that if we list and had leasure to be euil occupied we coulde not deuise as fonde foolish toyes as your sharpe wit hath imagined touching your ministres and their wiues your ronnagatfriers and mōckes with their strompets your late skirmish vpō square cappes and copes your diuersites of apparell of hattes and clokes of beardes and such like trifling toyes more mete for children in a Christmas playe or for laddes of the countrie in a whitson game then for a preacher and pretended deane in his printed workes Wherefore I conclude omitting all other not necessary trifles in this your trifling processe that the crime of schismes and sectes most truly laied to youre charge hath most falsely vniustly and barrenly ben reuersed vpon vs and do rebounde directly and truly vpon you and your felowes in such sorte that while you liue M. Nowell nor in many yeres after the storme of your heresies be calmed this your horrible diuision and multitude of schismes in so fewe yeres spronge vp shall at any time be forgottten or blotted out of eternall memory to the perpetuall ignominie of protestants and great glory of God and his church That the place brought out of the. 17. Chapitre of Deuter. is well and to the purpose alleaged The 18. Chapitre YOW saye M. Nowell that the circunstances of this place Nowell fol. 59. a. 27. B 26. of Deuteronomium being well considered they maie easelie informe the reader that the popes tirannie to saye and doe what he liste can not be grounded vpon this place and that if the pope or anie creature doe commaunde against goddes worde he maie and ought to be disobeied therein And that therfore bothe Pighius and I haue in vaine alleaged this place for suche supremacie as the pope claimeth The circunstances to be cōsidered are the A 27. place which God hath chosen the prieste which must be Leuitical Thirdlie the place to be doubtefull whether the whole determination B 1. doe perteine to one or to many c. Fourthly that it is requisite that the saide priestes or prieste doe teach according to the lawe of God and not at his owne pleasure To youre texte M. Nowell for shame will you euer be Dorman thus raunging at randon It was not my purpose here to proue by this place of Deuteron the bishop of Rome his supremacie ouer Christes whole churche no more then it is Pighius his in the place by you alleaged The matter that I haue here in hande is to proue that there must be one heade to gouerne the churche now as there was to gouerne the same in the olde lawe before Whether it be at Rome at Hierusalem or in anie place elles I dispute not here And therfore youre first * The place consideration and * The prieste secōde came without all consideration out of season But I maie beare with you the better because I haue bene vsed to this maner of dealing of youres before as the reader I doubte not can beare me witnes One thing yeat I can