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religion_n great_a know_v time_n 2,765 4 3.2223 3 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A04215 A defence of the churches and ministery of Englande Written in two treatises, against the reasons and obiections of Maister Francis Iohnson, and others of the separation commonly called Brownists. Published, especially, for the benefitt of those in these partes of the lowe Countries. Jacob, Henry, 1563-1624. 1599 (1599) STC 14335; ESTC S107526 96,083 102

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of_o marriage_n and_o of_o meat_n if_o they_o have_v do_v no_o worse_o do_v not_o make_v they_o departer_n from_o the_o faith_n that_o be_v not_o declare_v not_o or_o not_o fundamental_o not_o simple_o which_o word_n i_o think_v fit_a to_o be_v here_o use_v as_o in_o my_o next_o reply_n be_v further_o declare_v total_o no_o more_o can_v their_o hyerarchie_n and_o ceremony_n simple_o neither_o do_v these_o thing_n make_v we_o the_o protestant_n to_o be_v such_o the_o papist_n fall_v from_o christ_n follow_v christ_n that_o be_v fundamental_o &_o simple_o see_v in_o the_o 2._o answer_v follow_v whole_o in_o other_o point_n namely_o 1._o the_o papal_a supreamacy_n 2._o the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n 3._o justification_n by_o work_n which_o bless_v be_v god_n we_o be_v far_o from_o therefore_o the_o apostle_n in_o say_v they_o depart_v from_o the_o faith_n mean_v in_o meat_n in_o viz._n in_o abstayn_v from_o marriage_n and_o meat_n these_o point_n they_o err_v or_o depart_v from_o the_o faith_n but_o not_o absolutlie_v &_o whole_o 2._o further_o more_o touch_v your_o proposition_n if_o you_o understand_v paul_n of_o martion_n the_o haeretike_n and_o tatianus_n who_o do_v absolute_o condemn_v marriage_n and_o certain_a meat_n they_o even_o therein_o may_v whole_o fall_v from_o the_o faith_n i_o mean_v somewhat_o like_a to_o balaam_n judas_n and_o those_o apostate_n israelites_n late_o speak_v of_o 57_o pag._n 49._o 57_o namely_o for_o have_v their_o conscience_n convict_v and_o sear_v with_o a_o hot_a iron_n and_o thus_o be_v they_o in_o no_o comparison_n with_o we_o of_o england_n nor_o with_o the_o papist_n neither_o if_o they_o have_v err_v in_o nothing_o else_o f._n johnson_n his_o defence_n of_o his_o 7._o reason_n here_o the_o adversary_n be_v not_o able_a with_o any_o colour_n to_o deny_v the_o consequent_a of_o our_o reason_n neither_o to_o justify_v their_o present_a ministry_n worship_n cannon_n article_n injunction_n etc._n etc._n which_o yet_o he_o must_v do_v &_o still_o we_o call_v for_o it_o if_o he_o will_v justify_v their_o present_a estate_n yet_o be_v desperate_a sure_a for_o else_o he_o will_v never_o have_v do_v it_o he_o fear_v not_o to_o gainsay_v the_o assumption_n that_o be_v the_o very_a word_n and_o testimony_n of_o the_o scripture_n itself_o 1._o tim._n 4.1_o 2_o 3._o the_o apostle_n say_v that_o they_o which_o forbid_v marriage_n &_o meat_n be_v departer_n from_o the_o faith_n this_o man_n say_v no._n now_o whether_o of_o these_o shall_v we_o believe_v but_o what_o colour_n have_v this_o man_n for_o his_o denial_n forsooth_o this_o that_o they_o which_o do_v so_o do_v not_o depart_v from_o the_o faith_n total_o and_o that_o the_o apostle_n meaning_n be_v that_o in_o these_o point_n they_o depart_v from_o the_o faith_n but_o not_o absolute_o and_o whole_o so_o by_o this_o man_n conceit_n none_o may_v be_v account_v departer_n from_o the_o faith_n that_o depart_v only_o in_o some_o point_n but_o they_o which_o do_v it_o total_o from_o all_o and_o thus_o then_o may_v no_o heretic_n or_o antichristes_n that_o ever_o have_v be_v or_o shall_v be_v in_o the_o world_n be_v judge_v departer_n from_o the_o faith_n because_o they_o depart_v from_o it_o but_o in_o some_o point_n and_o not_o absolute_o from_o all_o thus_o in_o one_o word_n have_v he_o justify_v at_o once_o the_o arian_n nestorian_n sabellian_o papist_n familiste_n anabaptiste_n and_o who_o not_o because_o they_o depart_v but_o in_o some_o not_o whole_o from_o all_o point_n of_o faith_n be_v it_o not_o great_a pity_n that_o antichrist_n have_v so_o long_o want_v this_o stour_n champion_n that_o can_v thus_o in_o one_o word_n justify_v his_o forbid_v of_o meat_n and_o marriage_n yea_o and_o his_o most_o detestable_a hyerarchie_n and_o superstition_n now_o by_o this_o man_n learning_n all_o the_o martyr_n &_o writer_n heretofore_o that_o by_o evidence_n of_o this_o scripture_n convict_v the_o synagogue_n of_o antichrist_n to_o have_v depart_v from_o the_o faith_n and_o therefore_o separate_v from_o they_o be_v utter_o deceive_v nay_o and_o the_o apostle_n themselves_o be_v whole_o mistake_v when_o speak_v of_o antichristes_n church_n and_o religion_n they_o call_v it_o a_o 2.7_o a_o 2._o thes_n 2.7_o mystery_n of_o iniquity_n 4.2_o iniquity_n 1._o tim._n 4.2_o speak_v lie_n through_o hypocrisy_n 2.1_o hypocrisy_n 2._o pet._n 2.1_o prive_o bring_v in_o damnable_a heresy_n and_o have_v a_o 3.4_o a_o tim._n 3.4_o show_n of_o godliness_n but_o deny_v the_o power_n thereof_o and_o john_n eye_n also_o it_o seem_v be_v not_o match_n when_o he_o say_v 17.5_o say_v reve._n 17.5_o he_o see_v in_o the_o whore_n forehead_n that_o be_v in_o antichristes_n church_n and_o religion_n a_o name_n write_v a_o mystery_n great_a babylon_n the_o mother_n of_o whoredom_n and_o abomination_n of_o the_o earth_n for_o we_o will_v know_v of_o this_o deep_a clerk_n how_o antichristes_n church_n and_o religion_n shall_v justly_o be_v account_v a_o mystery_n of_o iniquity_n and_o true_o be_v say_v to_o speak_v lie_v in_o hypocrisy_n also_o prive_o to_o bring_v in_o damnable_a heresy_n and_o to_o have_v a_o show_n of_o godliness_n if_o they_o do_v absolute_o &_o whole_o depart_v from_o the_o faith_n and_o not_o only_o from_o some_o point_n thereof_o but_o over_o and_o above_o all_o it_o seem_v by_o this_o reason_n that_o not_o only_o the_o apostle_n be_v mistake_v in_o give_v we_o sure_a mark_n how_o to_o know_v false_a teacher_n and_o false_a religion_n 1_o tim._n 1.2_o 3._o 2_o pet._n 2.1_o 2_o thes_n 2.7_o 2_o tim._n 3.4_o revel_v 17.5_o but_o also_o christ_n himself_o when_o he_o say_v 7.15_o say_v mat._n 7.15_o beware_v of_o false_a prophet_n which_o come_v to_o you_o in_o sheep_n clothing_n but_o inwardlie_o be_v raven_a wolf_n and_o again_o 2.23.24_o again_o mat._n 2.23.24_o if_o any_o shall_v say_v unto_o you_o loe_o here_o be_v christ_n or_o there_o believe_v it_o not_o for_o there_o shall_v arise_v false_a christ_n and_o false_a prophet_n and_o shall_v show_v great_a sign_n and_o wonder_n so_o that_o if_o it_o be_v possible_a they_o shall_v deceyve_v the_o very_a elect_a now_o if_o they_o shall_v total_o depart_v from_o the_o faith_n what_o sheep_n clothing_n i_o pray_v you_o shall_v they_o have_v to_o come_v in_o or_o how_o shall_v either_o themselves_o be_v say_v to_o come_v in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n affirm_v their_o religion_n to_o be_v christ_n and_o show_v sign_n and_o wonder_n to_o draw_v man_n thereunto_o or_o the_o elect_a to_o be_v in_o such_o unspeakable_a danger_n to_o be_v deceive_v by_o they_o this_o may_v suffice_v to_o show_v the_o falsehood_n and_o impiety_n of_o his_o answer_n but_o we_o will_v note_v a_o few_o thing_n more_o therein_o it_o be_v grant_v he_o that_o the_o popish_a forbid_v of_o marriage_n and_o meat_n if_o they_o be_v not_o worse_o do_v not_o make_v they_o departer_n from_o the_o faith_n total_o yet_o let_v he_o tell_v we_o if_o hold_v never_o so_o many_o truth_n beside_o antichrist_n beside_o see_v in_o bales_n votary_n act_n and_o monument_n etc._n etc._n what_o abominable_a filthiness_n the_o forbid_v of_o marriage_n and_o what_o superstition_n the_o forbid_v of_o meat_n have_v wrought_v in_o the_o kingdom_n of_o antichrist_n yet_o forbid_v these_o they_o can_v by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n true_o be_v say_v in_o that_o estate_n estate_n estate_n what_o man_n fear_v god_n dare_v once_o open_a his_o mouth_n for_o such_o divelilh_n doctrine_n and_o estate_n to_o hold_v the_o faith_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o be_v true_a christian_n if_o they_o can_v not_o as_o the_o apostle_n testify_v then_o be_v this_o answer_n in_o this_o respect_n also_o nothing_o to_o the_o purpose_n but_o against_o himself_o both_o for_o the_o popish_a forbid_v of_o meat_n and_o marriage_n and_o for_o the_o english_a hyerarchie_n and_o other_o abomination_n among_o they_o receyve_v from_o the_o papist_n which_o under_o colour_n of_o this_o answer_n here_o he_o will_v defend_v again_o where_o he_o say_v that_o the_o papist_n fall_v from_o christ_n in_o other_o point_n beside_o the_o aforesaid_a namely_o 1_o the_o papal_a supremacy_n 2._o the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n 3._o justification_n by_o work_n which_o england_n now_o be_v far_o from_o let_v he_o tell_v we_o first_o whether_o in_o this_o sense_n the_o papist_n can_v for_o these_o be_v say_v to_o depart_v from_o the_o faith_n total_o if_o they_o can_v not_o then_o what_o weight_n be_v there_o in_o this_o for_o defence_n of_o their_o estate_n that_o the_o papist_n can_v not_o also_o allege_v for_o themselves_o to_o wit_n that_o in_o these_o point_v they_o depart_v from_o the_o faith_n but_o not_o absolute_o and_o whole_o second_o let_v he_o tell_v we_o whether_o there_o be_v not_o other_o point_n but_o these_o three_o in_o the_o
he_o depart_v from_o they_o and_o separate_v the_o discipel_v etc._n etc._n act._n 19.9_o therefore_o come_v out_o from_o among_o they_o and_o separate_v yourselves_o say_v the_o the_o lord_n and_o touch_v no_o unclean_a thing_n and_o i_o will_v receive_v you_o 2._o cor._n 6.17_o and_o i_o hear_v another_o voice_n from_o heaven_n say_v go_v out_o of_o she_o my_o people_n etc._n etc._n reu._n 18.4_o these_o be_v the_o very_a main_n ground_n on_o which_o their_o separation_n be_v build_v which_o be_v due_o weigh_v with_o the_o scope_n of_o the_o text_n you_o shall_v very_o easy_o find_v that_o not_o one_o amongst_o they_o all_o will_v hold_v in_o proportion_n with_o this_o time_n nor_o bear_v the_o separation_n they_o gather_v from_o they_o first_o because_o either_o they_o concern_v such_o time_n and_o state_n as_o the_o people_n that_o live_v in_o th●●●_n be_v professor_n of_o or_o subject_n unto_o open_v gross_a infidelity_n &_o either_o heathen_a or_o antichristian_a idolatry_n not_o in_o some_o particular_a custom_n &_o outward_a ordinance_n but_o in_o the_o whole_a body_n and_o power_n of_o heathen_a &_o antichristian_a religion_n such_o as_o can_v not_o possible_o stand_v with_o true_a faith_n and_o religion_n at_o all_o which_o can_v not_o be_v say_v of_o these_o time_n &_o present_a stand_n without_o open_a untruth_n 2_o or_o else_o because_o if_o they_o be_v not_o of_o that_o sort_n they_o afford_v no_o such_o absolute_a separation_n at_o all_o but_o only_o from_o wilful_a rebellious_a &_o obstinate_a disobeyer_n &_o evil_a speaker_n and_o from_o apparent_a gross_a corruption_n but_o not_o from_o the_o whole_a public_a body_n of_o those_o assembly_n nor_o from_o the_o lawful_a and_o good_a thing_n use_v in_o such_o time_n and_o stand_n as_o have_v not_o whole_o swerve_v from_o the_o faith_n though_o there_o be_v diverse_a grievous_a fault_n both_o in_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n suffer_v among_o they_o as_o by_o the_o example_n of_o the_o jewish_a church_n in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o prophet_n especial_o of_o christ_n himself_o may_v plain_o appear_v the_o evangelist_n make_v mention_n in_o diverse_a place_n that_o they_o worship_v god_n in_o vain_a teach_v for_o doctrine_n man_n precept_n they_o make_v their_o proselyte_n the_o child_n of_o hell_n two_o fold_n more_o than_o they_o be_v before_o they_o make_v the_o commandment_n of_o god_n of_o none_o effect_v by_o their_o tradition_n such_o as_o believe_v in_o christ_n they_o excommunicate_v etc._n etc._n yet_o be_v they_o a_o true_a church_n notwithstanding_o these_o and_o many_o other_o grievous_a enormity_n with_o who_o christ_n himself_o and_o his_o apostle_n have_v communion_n and_o fellowship_n sometime_o in_o those_o good_a thing_n that_o be_v among_o they_o and_o so_o may_v they_o with_o the_o church_n of_o england_n without_o justify_v or_o allow_v these_o thing_n which_o they_o see_v to_o be_v evil_a all_o which_o thing_n do_v more_o full_o appear_v in_o the_o conference_n itself_o as_o it_o follow_v hereafter_o but_o unto_o the_o example_n of_o these_o church_n i_o think_v i_o hear_v already_o that_o common_a answer_n and_o last_o refuge_n of_o they_o which_o be_v this_o objection_n those_o church_n say_v they_o be_v in_o a_o true_a outward_a constitution_n and_o therefore_o be_v the_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n notwithstanding_o those_o gross_a error_n which_o they_o hold_v in_o other_o point_n of_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n but_o contrariwise_o say_v they_o the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v a_o false_a outward_a constitution_n and_o therefore_o they_o be_v no_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n notwithstanding_o their_o truth_n of_o doctrine_n etc._n etc._n answer_n so_o the_o outward_a constitution_n be_v the_o main_a point_n on_o which_o they_o whole_o depend_v and_o for_o which_o they_o whole_o condemn_v the_o church_n of_o england_n from_o be_v true_a christian_n &_o in_o state_n of_o salvation_n which_o i_o doubt_v not_o plain_o to_o take_v away_o 1_o and_o first_o concern_v the_o constitution_n of_o the_o jewish_a church_n if_o we_o shall_v examine_v the_o same_o we_o shall_v find_v that_o it_o be_v as_o great_o alter_v and_o corrupt_v as_o be_v the_o constitution_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n two_o high_a priest_n have_v by_o simony_n creep_v in_o at_o once_o which_o be_v unlawful_a and_o contrary_a to_o god_n ordinance_n notwithstanding_o their_o gloss_n in_o their_o other_o reason_n other_o 9_o reason_n write_n to_o allow_v they_o to_o be_v lawful_a by_o 24.2.3_o by_o 2._o chron._n 24.2.3_o zadok_n and_o ahimelech_n and_o by_o 25.18_o by_o 2._o king_n 25.18_o seruiah_n the_o chief_a priest_n &_o zephaniah_n the_o second_o which_o make_v against_o themselves_o for_o there_o be_v never_o but_o one_o high_a priest_n as_o they_o confess_v 50._o confess_v answer_v to_o master_n hild._n pag._n 50._o ergo_fw-la not_o two_o as_o here_o be_v the_o rest_n be_v indeed_o inferior_a to_o he_o and_o yet_o among_o those_o there_o be_v a_o chiefty_a also_o who_o be_v call_v sometime_o second_v priest_n or_o priest_n of_o the_o second_o order_n 2._o king_n 23.4_o and_o sometime_o chief_a priest_n mat._n 27.1_o these_o scripture_n be_v compare_v with_o those_o in_o the_o margin_n by_o they_o cite_v do_v make_v it_o more_o plain_a now_o if_o the_o chief_a office_n be_v so_o corrupt_v and_o alter_v through_o covetousness_n as_o the_o history_n make_v mention_v it_o be_v not_o likely_a that_o the_o inferior_a office_n do_v remain_v sound_n but_o be_v asmuch_o or_o more_o alter_v the_o priest_n general_o be_v such_o covetous_a wicked_a person_n their_o office_n be_v very_o gainful_a and_o beside_o they_o live_v under_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o heathenish_a roman_n who_o rule_v over_o they_o all_o these_o thing_n consider_v it_o be_v very_o likely_a that_o the_o office_n &_o outward_a constitution_n on_o which_o they_o so_o much_o depend_v be_v whole_o alter_v from_o the_o right_a institution_n and_o therefore_o will_v make_v nothing_o for_o they_o as_o for_o their_o allegation_n of_o mat._n 23.1_o where_o they_o say_v christ_n testify_v that_o they_o have_v true_a office_n by_o say_v they_o sit_v in_o moses_n chair_n it_o will_v not_o help_v they_o any_o whit_n at_o all_o for_o moses_n be_v no_o priest_n as_o they_o be_v but_o a_o magistrate_n and_o therefore_o moses_n chair_n must_v be_v understand_v of_o some_o what_o else_o &_o themselves_o treatise_n themselves_o maist._n barrow_n and_o mai._n greenwood_n in_o diverse_a letter_n and_o treatise_n have_v understand_v it_o heretofore_o of_o moses_n doctrine_n 2._o second_o to_o let_v their_o constitution_n pass_v which_o yet_o as_o i_o have_v say_v will_v be_v find_v as_o bad_a or_o worse_o than_o we_o we_o will_v examine_v their_o corruption_n in_o doctrine_n wherein_o i_o will_v know_v of_o they_o which_o be_v the_o great_a sin_n of_o these_o two_o sort_n viz._n 1._o a_o false_a and_o corrupt_a outward_a constitution_n 2._o or_o false_a and_o corrupt_a doctrine_n i_o think_v they_o will_v say_v the_o corrupt_a and_o false_a doctrine_n be_v the_o great_a as_o they_o be_v indeed_o for_o that_o they_o do_v wound_n fester_v and_o corrupt_v the_o very_a conscience_n and_o do_v deceive_v the_o hearer_n thereof_o whereas_o the_o error_n in_o the_o constitution_n of_o a_o church_n especial_o in_o some_o circumstance_n as_o the_o error_n with_o we_o be_v and_o those_o of_o no_o small_a controversy_n in_o matter_n also_o not_o fundamental_a be_v nothing_o never_o so_o hurtful_a by_o how_o much_o the_o tithe_n of_o mint_n annis_n and_o commin_n be_v of_o lesser_a force_n than_o the_o other_o weighty_a matter_n of_o the_o law_n now_o from_o hence_o i_o reason_v thus_o if_o the_o great_a sin_n namely_o in_o doctrine_n do_v not_o simple_o overthrow_v a_o company_n of_o christian_n from_o be_v a_o true_a church_n then_o much_o less_o will_v the_o lesser_a sin_n namely_o in_o the_o outward_a constitution_n etc._n etc._n but_o the_o false_a doctrine_n which_o be_v the_o great_a sin_n themselves_o confess_v by_o the_o example_n of_o the_o say_v church_n do_v not_o therefore_o neither_o will_v the_o lesser_a for_o the_o better_a explayn_v of_o this_o point_n i_o will_v pray_v they_o resolve_v i_o of_o this_o question_n what_o if_o a_o company_n of_o arian_n anabaptiste_n or_o papist_n shall_v be_v gather_v and_o establish_v in_o a_o true_a outward_a constitution_n and_o still_o retain_v their_o fundamental_a error_n before_o 4._o before_o pag._n 4._o name_v whether_o shall_v their_o outward_a constitution_n make_v they_o a_o true_a church_n yea_o 〈◊〉_d no_o i_o think_v they_o will_v say_v no._n thus_o i_o hope_v than_o it_o appear_v that_o the_o outward_a constitution_n whether_o falty_n or_o true_a avail_v nothing_o to_o the_o overthrow_v or_o make_v of_o a_o true_a church_n unless_o other_o doctrine_n of_o the_o foundation_n either_o false_a or_o true_a do_v concur_v