Selected quad for the lemma: religion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
religion_n	good_a	king_n	prince_n	3,500	5	5.4628	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85400	Innocency and truth triumphing together; or, The latter part of an answer to the back-part of a discourse, lately published by William Prynne Esquire, called, A full reply, &c. Beginning at the foot of p. 17. of the said discourse, with this title or superscription, Certain brief animadversions on Mr. John Goodwins Theomachia. Wherein the argumentative part of the said animadversions is examined; together with some few animadversions upon some former passages in the said reply. Licensed and printed according to order.	Goodwin, John, 1594?-1665.	1645 (1645)	Wing G1176; Thomason E24_8; ESTC R22666	90,413	109

Doctrine and Reformation did but touch to render them the hatred and indignation of the world Yea and Luther himself doubted not to raise it to a generall maxime or observation that Godly men must beare the name title of men that are seditious schismaticall and Authors of infinite evills and troubles in the world That great and blessed alteration and change that God made in the State of Religion and things of his worship by the sending of Jesus Christ into the world and the preaching of the Gospel is called the shaking of the Heavens and the Earth because of the great concussions troubles distractions rents and divisions in the great concussions troubles distractions rents and divisions in the world which did and doe yet daily accompany them by reason of the pride ignorance and unbeliefe of those which oppose either the one or the other And as the Doctrine of the Gospel in the generall never comes amongst any people in excellencie and power but that it smites the foundations of that unitie and peace wherein it finds them makes breaches upon them renting one part of them from another upon which discontents and disorders follow like the waves of the Sea in like manner every considerable piece or branch of the Gospel in the first discovery and breaking out of it even in such places and among such persons where and amongst whom the Doctrine of the Gospel in the generall hath been of a long time professed by reason of the strangenesse of it and that contrarietie and crossenesse which it beares to the judgements and wills of many must needs be offensive and distastefull unto them and so occasion distractions disorders discontents So that Mr. Prynne by representing my Parish as divided disordered by my Independent way hath rather given testimony to the truth and Evangelicalnesse of it then brought any argument to disprove either And to say as he doth a few lines after that he needs no other evidence to prove it a schismaticall by-path and so no way of Christ then the schismes and discords which it hath raised in other Parishes is just such a saying and resolution as that of the High Priest against our Saviour when he rent his cloaths and said He hath spoken blasphemie What further need have we of Witnesses The blasphemie of Christ and the guiltinesse of Independencie touching the matter of division and disorder are sins much of the same order and calculation To his fourth and last reason which renders him a man of jealousie against the way of Independencie and prevailes with him so farre that he cannot as he saith think it a Way of Christ wee Answer 1. That this way is no Pioner or underminer of Parliamentarie Authoritie nor hath Mr. Prynne found it nor ever shall find it such the principles of this way being none other then what are laid in the Scriptures unpossible it is that it should destroy or pull downe any thing which they build up Therefore if Mr. Prynne hath ought in this kind against any of the sons of this way let him implead these in a lawfull triall and spare not but if for their sakes he will needs blaspheme the way he will open a dore of example very effectuall for those that are opposite to his way of Presbyterie to heap shame infamie and reproach upon the head thereof without end yea and for those also that are enemies to Christian Religion to render that as hatefull wicked vile in the eyes of men as themselves can desire it should be esteemed If all the errors and misprisions found in the writings of Presbyteriall men should be charged upon the way of Presbyterie as the Authoresse and Foundresse of them she would appeare ten times more erroneous and deformed then her Independent adversaries are yet willing to judge or conceive her to be 2. For the Sons or Patrons of this way as Mr. Prynne pleaseth to term them I verily beleeve that there is none of them all but are willing ready and chearfull to invest Parliaments with as full high and compleat a power and Authoritie as are by any by all the rules and principles either of reason or Religion competible unto men If Mr. Prynne or any other of the Presbyterian way conceive that in times of Parliaments when they apprehend them like to be for them they may and ought to say that Gods are come down to us in the likenesse of men we confesse that we cannot our reason our Religion will not beare it at our hands subscribe any such Apotheosie But let him and his first survey the territories patrimonie and heritance of Heaven the royalties and prerogative of the most high God and of the Lord Jesus Christ blessed for ever and set them out by the line and rule either of reason or Religion and look what power Authoritie Jurisdiction soever shall be found situate lying and being without the compasse of this line no waies enterfeering with those that are within wee all unanimously universally professe that incunctanter and with both our hands we will cast and heap it upon the Parliament asking no further question for conscience sake Therefore whereas he challengeth this way for devesting Parliaments of all manner of Jurisdiction in matters of Religion and Church-Government we answer 3. That neither this way nor the Patrons of it devest them of any or any manner of Authoritie in what matters soever unto which Mr. Prynne or any other Master of the Presbyterian way is able Salvo jure coeli to entitle them For jurisdiction in matters of Religion and Church-Government we willingly give unto them the same line measure and proportion herein to the full which himself asserteth unto them from the examples of those Kings and Princes Cyrus Artaxerxes Darius c. which he insists upon p. 20. Who as he here said enacted good and wholsome Lawes for the worship honour and service of the true God Let him instance particularly in any such Law or Lawes enacted by any of them and doubtlesse none of us will denie the Parliament a power of enacting exceptis excipiendis the like But if Mr. Prynnes intent be to make Precedent of whatsoever was enacted or done by any or all of these Heathen Kings Princes and States to warrant a lawfulnesse of power in the Parliament of enacting or doing the same we conceive that he neither hath nor knows where to have any thing to justifie such an intent I trust that that Law enacted by Nebuchadnezzar and his Nobles Dan. 3. 6. That whosoever falleth not downe and worshippeth shall the same houre be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace shall not be drawne by him into precedent for the vindication of a Parliamentary Jurisdiction in matters of Religion and Church-Government 4. Whereas to make good his last charge against the way so often smitten by his pen he referres to the passage of the two Independent Brethren recited p. 3. of his Independencie examined

before they are discovered or manifested to be such or that being discovered or manifested to be such they ought to be either resisted or suppressed by any other means then what God himself hath authorized in that behalf least of all is there any jot tittle or peep of a proof of that which is the burthen of Mr. Prynnes undertaking viz. that to attempt the suppressing of any Doctrine or Way which is from God is not to fight against God Nor doth his third Reason any whit more accommodate his enterprize then the former For what contrariety or shew of contrariety is there in these unquestionable maximes of Divinity Policy and Morality Principiis obsta●e venienti occarrite morbo c. to that Doctrine which only pronounceth the attempt of suppressing any Doctrine or Way which is of God to be a fighting against God yea or to this that no Doctrine or Way ought to be suppressed untill it be certainly known whether they be from God or no He that gave counsell Principiis obstare i● to withstand beginnings did not mean to advise men to make resistance against such beginnings which might for ought they know be as wel the beginings of good or of strength as of evill or sicknesse but only such beginnings which did cleerly presage inconvenience ensuing if not timely prevented And though all wise men hold preventing physique best for their bodies yet no wise man holds such Physique best or good in any degree for his body which is as like to prevent the health and sound constitution of his body as any infirmity or distemper of it He that will either launce or seare before he knowes whether the condition of his body requires either may abound in flesh but sure is no true born son of Wisdome That creature which is indued by God with principles of discerning certainly was not made to act especially in things of highest importance as matters of Religion are at peradventure His 4th and last Reason holds no correspondence at all with the Truth For what contrariety is there in the Doctrine under Mr. Pryns arrest to the Policy Practice of most godly Magistrates Princes Ministers Churches in all Ages Nations When did the Policy or Practice of any of these affirm that to attempt the suppression of any Doctrine or Way which is from God is not to fight against God If his meaning be that the Policy and Practice of the persons hee represents never indulged any known Heresies Errors Schismes no not for an houre the Doctrine against which hee contends in this contends not at all against him but gives him the right hand of fellowship in such an apprehension Only it adviceth godly Magistrates Prince Ministers Churches to be very carefull and wary of suppressing Angels of light indeed instead of Satan transformed into an Angel of light of baiting and hunting the sheep of Christ in stead of Wolves that come in sheeps clothing of smothering light in stead of darknesse of smiting truth in stead of error and heresie And is there any harme in this counsell or contrariety either to the Policy or Practice of any wise or godly man Or if there be any contrariety to either it is because there is a contrariety in them to the Word and Wildome of God Whereas in the same Reason he makes himself a further debtor unto mee by charging mee that I plead for Schismes and CONVENTICLES set up only by private spirits in opposition to the publique established Church-reiglement My Answer is 1. That I know a publique Church-reiglement abrogated and demolished but I know none as yet established When Mr. Prynne by his Logique shall convince mee of acting in opposition to that which is not I trust I shall be provided with mine to give him a satisfying answer 2. Whereas he declares against me as a Pleader for Schismes and Conventicles I answer that hee is the happiest man I know of his Profession if he never pleaded any worse Cause then that which I plead in those Sermons But whereas in other places of his Reply his margent glorieth with quotations in abundance here it seems it is ashamed as not knowing what to say nor where to finde or point at any pleading for Schismes and Conventicles as the lines in the page adventure to affirm 3. Mr. Prynnes privie notion of a Schisme or Conventicle is I am not able to say but if hee be here of the same minde and judgement with his own marginall note p. 10. which affirmeth that none are Conventiclers but Heretiques and Schismatiques who wholly separate themselves from our publique assemblies established by law certain I am that I plead for no Conventicles in those Sermons nor do I approve of the practice of any who wholly separate themselves from our publique assemblies But calumniare audacter aliquid haerebit holds good it seems in Law But 4. If by pleading for Schismes and Conventicles he means a pleading for the spirituall liberties of the Congregations of the Saints and of the Assemblies of the first-born whose names are written in heaven whom Jesus Christ hath made Kings and Priests unto God his Father and who are shortly to judge the world if the vindication I say of the rights and priviledges of these in point of exemption and immunity in their spirituall affaires and such as concern the regulation of their consciences in matters appertaining to the worship and service of God from the Jurisdiction and interest of the Commissioners and Delegates of the world if this once again be pleading for Schismes and Conventicles I had quitted my self much more like a faithfull Minister of Jesus Christ if I had pleaded for them yet seven times more then now I have done My sorrow and shame in part is that I have pleaded this honourable Cause so weakly as to leave thoughts and imaginations in Mr. Prynne which still exalt and magnifie themselves against the righteousnesse truth and equity of it 5. And lastly whereas hee calls the Church-government which I plead for a Government set up only by private spirits if it be found to be a Government set up by the Spirit of God in the Scriptures the consideration unto which all my pleadings for it in those Sermons are homagers being all of them conditionall and none peremptory or absolute Mr. Prynnes spirit and the spirits of all others that shall oppose it how publique soever their persons may be will be found to be the private spirits disallowed in the Scriptures by the Spirit of God Whereas hee yet addes that differences and varieties in matters of government are such tender things that they cannot be tolerated in one and the self-same Church and State without infinite inconveniences and distances c. I answer 1. That differences and varieties in matters of Government are not things so tender in any degree as the consciences of the Saints and therefore no reason that Reason of State should be more tenderly respected then these Better

this worlds endowments to confirme them 5. And lastly the known case happening at the Councel of Nice between Paphnutius and the rest of the learned members thereof with that of Athanasius opposing in a manner the whose Christian world now turned Arrian with some others of like consideration that might be added have broke the heart of that Topique place Quod pluribus videtur c. and made it void and invalid for ever To his second Argument which it seemes strengthens the hand of his great jealousie against the Congregationall cause I answer First I am unduly and untruly charged to acknowledge the Congregationall government set up by a few private men against the Authority and commands of the Parliament c. I no where mention any Authority or command of Parliament declared against this Way neither indeed doe I know any to this houre Nor doe I either hope or feare to live to that day wherein private men may not both feare God and obey Jesus Christ without offending against the authority and commands of Parliament But this charge being hard to find in my discourse and he that affirmes it being desirous to make it as hard to answer or disprove he takes field-room enough for his reference and in his Margine bids us in effect looke from page 30. to 52. telling us that if we look narrowly enough wee shall find it somewhere within that circuit though himselfe it seems knowes not well where 2. Nor do I any where either tacitly or vocally acknowledge that this way not onely denies but oppugnes the temporall Magistrates Parliaments Synods directions or coercive power in Ecclesiasticall affairs If any man of this way doth denie much more if hee oppugneth either the one or the other it is not necessary that he should doe either as a Son of this Way nor by any influence of those grounds and principles upon which this Way is built But I verily beleeve that Mr. Prynne never knew any man of this Way that ever denied much lesse oppugned any directions whether from Parliaments or Synods or from farre meaner hands then either of these unlesse they saw or apprehended them contrary to the mind and will of God in the Scriptures in which case I have that Christian and honourable opinion of the authour of this charge that he would deny them himselfe What he meanes by the word oppugning in such an emphaticall opposition to a denying is none of my understanding It he meanes onely a pleading or an arguing in oppositum I conceive it no wayes opposite unto but of a just and necessary concurrence with a deniall For he that denies any thing affirmed by another is bound to or at least very lawfully may give a reason of that his deniall which must needs be an oppugning in this sense of the others assertion If by oppugning he means an opposing or resisting by force the charge is a most unworthy and unchristian slander I no where give the least intimation that the way I plead for in any of her principles or maximes thus oppugneth either Parliaments or Synods either in their directions or in the exercise of any coercive power As for a coercive power in Synods I think Mr. Prynnes way denies if not oppugns it as well as mine And to gratifie the Civill Magistrate with such a power as this in matters of Religion denying him withall any Directive power for the ordering and government of it which is the bountie of the Presbyterian way to the Civill Magistrate is no such eminency of desert at his hand above what the Congregationall way doth willingly and chearfully leave unto him The understanding and reason of a man is certainly better then the strength of an Elephant or a Lyon 3. I absolutely deny that Mr. Prynne hath either largely or contractedly proved either by many Texts or any Texts either in his Independencie examined or in any other of his writings whatsoever whether examined or unexamined the deniall of any such coercive power either in Parliaments or Synods to be either directly or indirectly contrary to the Scriptures which either the Congregationall way or any Patron or friend of this way that I know of have denied or doe deny unto either And whereas his page boasts of his large proofe hereof by many Texts and by this finger o points us to his margent as if that would justifie and make good this boasting the honest margent as conscious to the vanitie thereof refuseth to say any thing at all jot or tittle to it 4. Whereas he pleads that Paul himself even in matters of Religion pleaded his cause before Festus Felix and King Agrippa all this is granted in point of Truth but absolutely denied in point of pertinencie to his purpose If Independents be brought before Kings and Rulers for Christs sake or for their conscience sake it is their wisest course and that which well becomes them yea and that which they would doe if so brought to plead their cause before them as well as they can as Paul did before Festus c. But though Paul was a chosen vessell of Christ to carry his Name before Kings yet they were chosen vessels of Satan who compell'd or brought him before Kings to answer for his life because he preach'd and practis'd the doctrine of Christ notwithstanding he alwayes carried the Name of Christ with him whensoever he was brought before them Nor doth his pleading his cause before Festus c. any whit more prove that Festus had a lawfull coercive power in matters of Religion then James his being slaine by Herods sword or Christs being crucified by Pilates power prove that Civill Magistrates have a lawfull power to sentence the faithfullest and most innocent men unto death As for Pauls appeale unto Caesar an Heathen Emperour can we blame him for it when as he hop'd to find more equall and faire proceedings before him then at the Judicatories of inferior Judges If Mr. Prynne will accept or interpret either the pleading of our cause before a Civill Magistracy when we are brought before it or an appealing from an inferior Civill Judicatory when we feele or feare injustice to a Superior or an acknowledgement of a lawfull power in the Civill Magistrate to restraine the violence and unjust proceedings and practises of men against us if I say he will interpret any or all these to be an acknowledgement of a Coercive power in the Civill Magistrate in Ecclesiasticall affaires there is an end of this strife between us we will all readily subscribe that such a coercive power as this in matters of Religion and Ecclesiasticall affaires is the undoubted priviledge of the Civill Magistrate and of right belongs unto him 5. Wee freely likewise subscribe unto those injunctions of the Apostle where he injoyns all Christians to pray even for heathen Kings Magistrates and to submit to all their lawfull commands for conscience sake yea and are heartily sorry that any such commands should at any

that a friend of his a man also very well knowne to my self and knowne for a man both of honesty and understanding related to him how that having but foure persons in his familie himself being one of the foure and every of these constantly repairing to a different Congregation and Ministery yet liv'd very peaceably comfortably and contentedly together in the same house Yea and that he moreover added that except he should grant this libertie to the rest respectively he could not expect that good accord and agreement with them and between them in his family which now he found Yea 2. Experience manifests yet more then this viz. that not onely persons dissenting in point of Church-Government being otherwise united in the profession of the same pure Orthodox and undefiled Religion but that persons dissenting in the very substantialls of their respective Religions doe lovingly and peaceably combine and live together not onely in the same State or Kingdome but even in the same Citie yea in the same street or neighbour-hood and are mutually helpfull and serviceable one to another in all matters of civill courtesie often meet eat and drink together yea and are all of one heart and of one mind in promoting and maintaining the peace and safety of the State where they live I have received every whit as much as this in report from persons of good esteem and worth who have been ey-witnesses and diligent observers of such things both in the Low-Countries and in France Yea 3. that which is yet more then all this the Scripture it self implies that persons not onely distanced in their judgements about Church-Government but about the God-head of Christ and truth of the true and Christian Religion may not onely accord and agree together in one and the same State as Abraham and his people did with the Amorites Gen. 14. 13. with the Philistims at Gerar Gen. 20. 1. with the AEgyptians Gen. 12. 10. c. Christians with Pagan Idolaters 1 Cor. 10. 27. but in the one and the same familie yea and hed also 1 Cor. 7. 12 13. 1. Pet. 3. 1. c. 4. And lastly Not onely experience but even Reason it self manifests that those who cannot in point of conscience communicate and agree together in one Church may yet very well accord together in one familie bed Parish Kingdome yea evident it is that they who cannot in point of conscience agree together in one Church cannot possibly or lightly at least but agree together in familie Parish bed Kingdome For if it be conscience that sets them at a distance in matter of Church-government it must needs unite them in the performance of all such duties which are cleerly and manifestly such He that out of conscience abstains from any practise as not being satisfied in his judgement touching the lawfulnesse thereof cannot but be ready and willing to practise every such dutie of the necessitie where of he stands convinced either by the light of nature or by the Word of God Conscience being unpartiall between the negative and the affirmative and equally respecting its own comfort and peace in both Now it is no wayes probable if possible that such as are truly conscientious in point of Church-Government should be ignorant of such duties required of them by God in the foure mentioned relations family parish bed kingdome the practise and performance whereof will strongly and sweetly unite and accord them in the said Relations respectively All these things considered I cannot wonder a little that the Gentleman who makes so many Questions should make that Questionlesse in the negative which is so palpably plain and questionlesse in the affirmative But 6. Whereas I onely argue and demonstrate that the repairing of persons out of severall Parishes to one and the same Ministery or Pastor needs be no more trouble or disturbance then the like repair of persons of the respective Companies in London to one and the same Hall he represents this demonstration of mine as if I thereby intended to prove or justifie the Congregationall Government simply and accordingly insists upon 3 differences between the one and the other I know nothing but that he might easily have found out not onely 3 but 23 differences and have argued them all with as much pertinencie to his purpose as he hath done the three For we do not urge the analogie of the Government of Companies of Corporations in all the relations or appurtenances belonging to it as any ground or proof of the Congregationall Government we are better provided in this kind then so we onely urge the particular mentioned to accommodate and heal the pretended offensivenesse in the like in this Government Notwithstanding let us briefly see what advantage he hath gotten against the Independent way by his 3 great differences found between severall Trades and Hals in one Citie Parish Kingdom and severall forms of Church-Government As to the first we answer 1. That it is not so without dispute as he makes it whether all Trades Societies bold one another lawfull usefull necessarie agreeable to the Laws of God and the Realme I know both some Trades yea and some Societies too in London much questioned upon all or most of these particulars But passe we this Whereas he infers upon it that so they breed no contrarietie of opinions or disaffections c. We answer 2. That certainly experience doth not manifest this Contentions differences disaffections yea and Law-suits sometimes betweene Trades and Trades Societies and Societies are known occurrences in and about the Citie Whereas he addes that each different Church deems the other unlawfull so as they cannot with safe conscience joyn or communicate together and thereupon sever one from another We answer 3. That according to Mr. Prynnes notion of Church-Government it is not necessarie that each different Church should judge the other unlawfull c. because he supposeth that the Scripture is so indulgent in this behalf as to leave roome enough for variety of forms of this Government So that if he will but give others leave to be of his judgement this reasoning of his fals to the ground But Fourthly and lastly Though each different Church do deem the other unlawfull and so cannot with safe conscience communicate together in Church-ship yet this hinders not but that they may judge and think as well one of anothers persons and consequently love and affect one another and combine together as affectionately as persons of severall Trades and Societies do who have no more communion together in their respective Trades then different Churches have in their respective Churches yea there is far better ground as hath been partly touched already why different Churches though they deemeach other unlawfull should yet think better of yea and love the respective members each of other then there is that persons of severall Trades or members of severall civill Societies should do either the one or the other among themselves To his second difference I answer 1.