observation how it pleaseth God to leave me to take up the Common Reproachfull Accusation of the Accuser of Gods Children That they are arrogant and impetuous Defender I did not thinke it needfull to declare what an Arrogant and Impetuous way was seeing his Request was not that I should compile a discourse of mine owne but that I should returne an Answer to the Letter of his friend And it is an Answerers part not to Expatiate into declarations but distinctly and closely to remove Objections Besides himselfe is not ignorant of this point nor needeth to be taught what an Arrogant and impetuous way is For he himselfe telleth us in his 8th Chapter That the Civill Peace may be broken by holding forth a Doctrine or practise with rayling or reviling daring or challenging speeches which is a way of Arrogancy or with force of Armes Swords Gunns c. which is a way of Impetuousnesse But if it be desired that I should declare my self herein thus breily take it He holdeth forth an erronious Doctrine or Practise in an Arrogant and Impetuous way not onely who carrieth it in a reviling and daring way which is a disturbance to Civill Peace But also he who refuseth to subject his spirit to the spirit of the Prophets in a holy Church of Christ contrary to 1 Cor. 14.32 which is a disturbance to the peace of the Church And withall he that shall oppose such as dissent from his Errors either by violent meanes as the Circumcellians did by Clubbs and Swords and as Zedekiah did Micajah with Fists 1 Kings 22.24 or by censorious reproaches and by rejecting Communion with them even before conviction or admonition all these are wayes of Arrogance and Imperuousnesse and tend to the disturbance either of civill or of Church Peace or of both But for the 2. His sad and sorrowfull Observation that God hath left me to take up the common reproachful Accusation of the Children of God as if they were Arrogant and Impetuous in their way upon what ground the Discusser taketh this up I confesse I cannot Imagine unlesse Conscius ipse sibi de se put at omnia dici There is not the least jot or tittle in my Letter that applyeth this Accusation of Arrogance or impetuousnesse to any of the Children of God at all Nor had I the least thought of himselfe when I wrote that Letter who for ought I can remember did then keepe communion with all his Brethren and held loving acquaintance with my selfe As for these six Cases he speaketh of or rather wayes wherein the Children of God have opposed the streame of the times and have there upon been taxed as Arrogant and impetuous Troublers of the State yet were none such I willingly allow them to stand good save onely they might as well be reduced to 2. or 3. Heads as branched out into 6. But howsoever they are nothing pertinent to the Point in hand none of them being wayes of Arrogancy nor Impetuousnesse but of well Ordered and Christian faithfulnesse and Magnanimity If any of them did put forth acts of Impetuous violence as Elijah did in putting the Prophets of Baall to death 1 King 18.40 It was done by vertue of an extraordinary calling or else by the consent of the King and people then present Besides as none of the fix wayes wherein the Messengers of God walked against the streame of the times were wayes of Arrogance and impetuousnesse so much lesse were these holy men of God Impetuous in holding forth any Error or evill practise which is the Point in hand CHAP. 8. Some what more of holding forth Error in a way of Arrogance and Impetuousnesse Discusser The Distinction now in Discussion concerneth not Truth and Error but the manner of holding forth or divulging Defender The distinction doth expresly speake of holding forth things Erroneous and unlawfull either in a meeke and peaceable way or with such Arrogance and Impetuousnesse as tendeth and reacheth even of it selfe to the disturbance of Civill Peace And therefore it cannot be said with truth that the distinction concerneth not Truth and Error The distinction expresly concerneth both the sinfull matter held forth things erroneous and unlawfull and the sinfull manner of holding them forth with such Arrogance and impetuousnesse as tendeth to the disturbance of Civill Peace Discusser I Acknowledge such may be the way and manner of holding forth either with railing or reviling daring or challenging speeches or with force of Armes Swords Gunns Prisons c. that it may not onely tend to breake but may actually breake the Civill Peace Defender Then the distinction is acknowledged to have a reall Truth in it what lacketh it yet but that it may stand Discusser Yet those instances to wit those 6. mentioned in Chap. 7. are Cases of great Opposition and Spirituall Hostility and Occasions of the breach of the Civill Peace yet the matter and manner pure holy peaceable and inoffensive Defender Then these six instances doe nothing concerne the distinction in hand which speaketh of holding forth for the matter things Erroneous and unlawfull and for the manner in a disturbant way to Civill Peace But it seemeth if something if any thing though nothing to purpose be said in the Discussion of a distinction it may goe for a Discussion Discusser Moreover I answer That it is possible and common for Persons of soft and gentle nature and spirits to hold out falshood with more seeming meeknesse and Peaceablenesse then the Lord Jesus or his servants did or doe hold forth the everlasting Gospel So that the Answerer would be requested to explaine what he meaneth by this Arrogant and Impetuous holding forth of any Doctrine which very manner of holding tendeth to break the Civill Peace and cometh under the Cognisance and Correction of the Civill Magistrate c. Discharge Himselfe hath said it and done it already in this Chapter and I have done the same somewhat more largely in the Chapter next foregoing CHAP. 9. A Reply to his ninth Chapter Touching the Causes of Civill Dissensions and uprores about Matters of Religion Discusser Whence then arise Civill Dissensions and uprores in matters of Religion I Answer 1. When a State liveth and lieth in the guilt of a false God false Christ false Worship then no wonder if soare eyes be troubled at the appearance of light whereas good eyes are not troubled at the Light Vigilant and watchfull Persons Loyall and Faithfull are not so troubled at the true no nor at a false Religion of Jew or Gentile Discharge This is as little to the purpose as that which went before The distinction spake of holding forth Erroneous and unlawful things in a way tending of it selfe to the disturbance of Civill Peace This Discussion holdeth forth another way tending to the disturbance of Civill Peace not of it selfe but by occasion or by Accident to wit when the holding forth of Light and Truth disturbeth the sore Eyes of a corrupt State If per
se and per Accidens of it selfe and by occasion be all one If the holding forth of Truth and Error be all one then this Discussion hath shaken the distinction of holding forth Error not in an humble and meeke way but in a way of Arrogance and Impetuousnesse But when he saith vigilant and faithfull Persons are not so troubled no not at the false Religion of Jew or Gentile If he meane not so much troubled at the false Religion as corrupt Sates be at the true Religion there may be truth in the speech but it onely argueth That corrupt nature is more zealous in the defence of its owne will-will-worship then the faithfull be in the defence of the Truth But surely the faithful are called to contend Earnestly for the Faith Jude 3. and have as much cause to be troubled at the holding forth of the Worship of Baal as corrupt States be at the holding forth of the Worship of Jehovah If his meaning be that vigilant and faithfull Persons are not so troubled at the false Religion of Jew or Gentile but that they can Tolerate them to live amongst them in a Civill Body we say so too And therefore the Indians who have submitted to the Government of this jurisdiction are not compelled to the Profession or acknowledgement of our Religion either by Force of Armes or Poenall Lawes But yet if Christians should seduce Christians to turne Apostates from the Faith and to imbrace Judaisme or Paganisme Or if Jewes or Pagans living amongst us should openly blaspheme the God of heaven draw away Christians to Atheisme or Judaisme I should not account them either vigilant or faithfull Christians that were not troubled at such a destroying of the true Religion and propagating of the false Paul blamed the false Teachers to be the Troublers of the Churches of Galatia Gal. 5.10 12. Acts 15.24 Discusser 2. Breach of Civill Peace may arise when false and Idolatrous practises are held forth and yet no Breach of Civill Peace from the Doctrine or Practise or the manner of holding them forth but from the wrong and preposterous way of Suppressing and preventing and extinguishing such Errors by weapons of wrath and Bloud Whips Stocks Imprisonment Banishment Death by which men are commonly perswaded to convert Heretickes and to cast out uncleane spirits which onely the finger of God can doe that is the mighty Power of the Spirit of the Word It is light alone that is able to dispell and scatter such mists and foggs of darknesse in the soules and Consciences of men Hence the Sonnes of men disquiet themselves in vaine and unmercifully disquiet others Defender Then it seemeth that if the Mariners of the Ship wherein Jonah sayled when he fled from the Presence of God if they I say did cast Jonah over board into the Sea this preposterous way of theirs in suppressing the Error of his way was it which raised the storme and Tempest whereby the Ship was tossed to and fro disturbed yea in jeopardy to be sunk and destroyed But the Text speakes to the contrary when they had cast Jonah forth into the Sea the Sea ceased from his raging Jonah 1.15 But what was the sinne of Jonah was it not some sinne against the second Table some act of unrighteousnesse against his Neighbour It was a direct and immediate breach of a rule of his Propheticall Office a sin against the second Commandement of the First Table But was not the Sea in which this tempest arose against Jonah and against the whole Ship for his sake was it not the Sea of Tiberias which being within the Confines of the Holy Land the Sea also was Holy and would not suffer such a sin unpunished No the Sea of Tiberias is within the Confines of Galilee and other parts of the Land of Israel But this was the Mediterranean Sea between Joppa and Tarshish Jonah 1.3 But were not these Mariners Israelites who might have some speciall charge from God to roote out all Idolatry and false Worship from amongst them which bindeth not us Gentiles No they were Pagans and Gentiles as appeareth in that every one of them cryed out unto his own God But why did not God send out the tempest to punish those Pagan Mariners rather for their Idolatry then Jonah for his Erroneous Practise in running away from the true God God in times past suffered all Nations to walke in their owne wayes Acts 14.16 And so did his Vicegerents the good Kings of Israel doe the like David did not compell the tributary Nations to worship the God of Israel No more doth our Colony here compell the tributary Indians to worship our God But if an Israelite forsake God he disturbeth not onely the Common-wealth of Israel but the Barks of Pagans and Heathen states as Jonah did this Ship by his departure from God Therefore a Christian by departing from God may disturbe a Gentile civill State And it is no preposterous way for the Governours of the State according to the quality of the disturbance raised by the starting aside of such a Christian to punish both it and him by civill censure Nor doth the Civill State in such punishments attend so much how to procure the conversion of Heretickes or Apostates or such like scandalous turbulent offenders as how to prevent the perversion of their sounder people Gangraenam amoveas ne pars sincera trabatur or else to worke the subversion of such as doe subvert both truth and peace And yet as legall terrours are ordinary meanes blessed of God to prepare hard and stout hearts to conversion so such legall punishments God is in like sort pleased to blesse to the confusion and reformation of false Prophets as was foretold by Zacharie it should come to passe in the dayes of the new Testament Zach. 13.4 5 6. Object Yea but it is light alone that is able to dispell and scatter such mists and foggs of darknesse in the soules and Consciences of men Ans True But yet the judgements of God are as the Light that goeth forth Hosea 6.5 And the judgements of men executed according to the Word are sanctified of God to prevent the spreading of Idolatry and seducement to it All Israel shall heare and feare and doe no more presumptuously Deut. 13.11 Nor is the righteous proceeding in Civill States a disquieting of themselves or any unmercifull disquieting of others For it is no disquieting to a just man to doe Justice and the disquieting of men in sinne it is no unmercifull dealing but a compassionate healing either of themselves or others The false Prophet reclaimed by stigmatizing with wounds in his hands will freely acknowledge thus was I wounded in the House of my friends Zach. 13.6 Friends are not unmercifull disquieters Object The Judgements of God which goe forth as the light are not of the Judgements of his hand but of his mouth for so he explaineth himselfe in that place of Hosea I have hewen them by the Prophets
the Colledge that he might be trained up to knowledge for the help of his Country-men But no violent course taken with them at all to constraine them to the Faith or Profession of Christianity The time is hastning we hope when all the vials of Gods wrath will be poured out on the Antichristian State and then we looke for the fulnesse of the Gentiles to come in and with the Jewes multitudes of Pagans But till the seven plagues of the seven Angels be fulfilled wee cannot easily hope for the entrance of 〈◊〉 New multitudes of men into the Church according to the word of the Lord Rev. 15.8 No man that is no man out of the Temple no Pagan was able to enter into the Temple till the seven plagues of the seven Angels were fulfilled But to returne to our Discusser he speaketh at randome when he intimateth that we walke not by Rule but partially as if we permitted not the like liberty of worship to our Country-men nor to the French Dutch Spanish Persians Turkes Jewes which wee doe to the Indians For we Neither constraine them to worship God with us nor restraine them from worshipping God in their owne way Persians Turkes and Jewes come not amongst us those of other Nations of Europe when they doe come amongst us their manner of Worship is not taken notice of amongst us Our Country-men worship God with us for the most part if some of them come not to our Assemblies by reason of the distance of their dwellings from us they have Liberty of publick prayer and preaching of the word a-amongst themselves by such as themselves choose without disturbance Discusser The Answerer addeth a further Answer to Tertullian for whereas Tertullian had said that one mans Religion doth neither hurt nor profit another the Answerer saith it must be understood of private Worship or of Religion professed in private Otherwise a false Religion professed in publick by the Members of the Church or by such as have given their Names to Christ will be the ruine and Desolation of the Churches Rev. 2. Whereto I Answer 1. Those that are Members of the Church and those that have given their names to Christ are all one the distinction therefore is unsound Defender The Discusser must excuse me though I doe not take them for all one For men of yeares must give up their names to Christ before they can be received Members into the Church as is evident Isaiah 56.6 7. Therefore they are not all one the one precedeth the other Discusser I answer secondly that Tertullian doth not there speake of private but of publick worship and Religion Defender Tertullians speech may possibly be meant of either publick or private But as I said to make the speech true it must either be understood of private or if of publick profession of Religion it must be understood not of Christian but of Pagan and of Pagan during the time of Gods Patience and their ignorance But after God revealed the Truth of the Gospel-Religion to them it was not safe to continue a publick Profession of pagan-Pagan-Religion for after the White-Horse hath revealed the Gospel a Red and Black and pale-horse follow to avenge the rejection of it upon the Romane-Pagan-Empire Revel 6.2 to 8. Discusser I answer thirdly although it be true in a Church of Christ that a false Religion or Worship permitted will doe hurt according to those Threats of Christ Rev. 2. yet in two cases I beleive a false Religion will not hurt which is most like to have been Tertullians meaning 1. A false Religion out of the Church will not hurt the Church no more then weeds in the Wildernesse will hurt the inclosed Gardens nor poyson hurt the body when it is not touched or taken yea and Antidotes are received against it 2. A false Religion and worship will not hurt a Civill State in case the worshippers breake no civill Law And the Answerer elsewhere acknowledgeth that the civill Peace is not broken where the civill Lawes are not broken And this onely is the point in Question Defender If this onely be the point in Question where then lyeth the controversie for if I say as the Discusser saith I doe that the Civill Peace is not broken when the Civill Law is not broken and if a false Religion or worship doe not hurt the civill State unlesse the Worshippers breake some civill Law then where lyeth the pinch of the controversie But I would not have the Discusser mistake himselfe I doe not remember that I have any where said that the civill Peace is not broken where the civill Law is not broken He saith I say so elsewhere If he meane that I say so in the Modell drawn up by my Brethren the Elders of those Churches he wrongeth and polluteth himselfe much Crimine falsi when he saith that Mr. Cotton with the rest of the Ministers of New-England composed that Modell of Church and civill power It is no new thing with him to say I did that which I did not that Modell was drawen up by some other fellow-Brethren but not by me There is a Truth in the speech which they speak rightly understood but not as the Discusser here taketh it For first what if no civill Law be made for the establishment of Religion nor against the violation of the Fundamentalls of it this very defect of so needfull a Law may bring the wrath of God upon the civill State as did the defect of a King in Israel Judg. 21.25 Againe secondly there may be a Law made for the establishing of true Religion and it though it be violated yet the Discusser will say no civill Law is violated because no Law concerning the second Table is violated But that is his mistake to thinke the civill Lawes concerne onely the outward Estate of the People and not their Religion That is a civill Law whatsoever concerneth the good of the City and the propulsing of the contrary Now Religion is the best good of the City and therefore Lawes about Religion are truly called civill Lawes enacted by civill Authority about the best good of the City for the promoting and preserving of that good of the City But having thus spoken to his second case first wherein he saith a false Religion will not hurt a civill State I come now to his first which was that a false Religion will not hurt if it be out of the Church no more then weeds in the wildernesse will hurt the inclosed Garden But what if the Garden be inclosed in the midst of a wildernesse what if the weeds grow so neere the inclosure or hedge round about the Garden that they easily creep into the Garden what if every blast of wind blow the seeds of the weeds into the Garden which are ready to overspread the Garden and to choak the good herbes The Discusser will say they that keep and dresse the Garden should weed them out True so they ought to their best endeavour But
the Church be not nursed with poison in stead of milke And in so doing they keepe the first Table Reforme the Church judge in causes Ecclesiasticall Againe If the the same Princes shall bow down to the Church with their faces towards the earth and lick the dust of her feet as the same Text expresseth then they being members of the Church shall be subject also to Church-Censure In one word Princes sit on the Bench over the Church in the offensive Government of the Church yet may themselves being members of the Church be subject to Church-Censure in the offensive Government of themselves against the Rules of the Gospel The Examiner himselfe contesseth that in severall respects He that is a governor may be also a Subject Behold here are severall respects to wit severall objects of Judicature In the Mal-Administration of the Church the Magistrate sitteth as Judge and Governor in the Mal-Administration of a Church-Member-Magistrate contrary to the expresse rules of the Gospel he is subject to the power of Christ in the Church If it be said nay rather The Church is subject to the Magistrate in civill causes and the Magistrate is subject to the Church in spirituall causes I Answer That easeth not the difficulty no more then the other For suppose the Magistrate a Church member live in Incest breake forth into murder and notorious oppression these are all civill causes belonging to the second Table If the Magistrate sit as Judge and supreme Governor in this case then must the Church tolerate him herein to the dishonour of the great Name of Christ to the leavening of the Church and to the perdition of his soule If it be granted that in such a case though civill the Church is bound to deale faithfully with the Magistrate and not to suffer sinne upon him let the like power be granted to the Magistrate to deale faithfully with the Church in the notorious transgressions of the first Table as is granted to the Church to deale with the Magistrate in the notorious transgressions of the second Table and the controversie is ended If any further matter be claimed in making the Supreme Magistrate the Supreme Judge and Governor in all causes aswell Ecclesiasticall as civill I doe not understand that the Ministers or Churches of Christ are called to acknowledge such a meaning Sure I am the Interpretation of that high stile which godly learned Reynolds made of it in the 10. Chap. of his Conference with Hart It was accepted of the State in the dayes of Queene Elizabeth And the same Interpretation if no more be intended by that stile doth well stand with our defence But wherefore doe I put my Sicle into the Harvest of my Brethren my Brethren who penned that Modell are richly furnished by Christ with ability to defend it I therefore leave it to them whom it cheifly concerneth to maintaine the Truth which themselves have witnessed in that Modell And the Lord Jesus Christ himself the God of Truth who came into the world that he might beare witnesse to the Truth be pleased to beare witnesse from Heaven to his owne Truth and bl … that peace a fraudulent and false peace which the Examiner proclaimeth to all the wayes of falshood in Religion to Heresie in Doctrine to Idolatry in worship to blasphemy of the great Name of God to Pollution and prophanation of all his holy Ordiannces Amen Even So Come Lord Jesus A REPLY TO Mr. VVILLIAMS his EXAMINATION And Answer of the Letters sent to him by JOHN COTTON SUch a Letter to such a purpose I doe remember I wrote unto Mr. Williams about halfe a score yeares agoe But whether this printed Letter be a true Copie thereof or no I doe not know for the Letter being sent so long since and no Copie of it that I can finde reserved by me I can own it no further then I finde the matter and style expressing the judgement which I then had of his cause of Separation and the affection I bare unto his person And for ought I see the Letter doth not unfitly expresse both But how it came to be put in print I cannot imagine Sure I am it was without my privitie and when I heard of it it was to me unwelcome Newes as knowing the truth and weight of Plinies speech Aliud est scribere uni aliud omnibus There be who thinke it was published by Mr. Williams himselfe or by some of his friends who had the Copie from him Which latter might be the more probable because himselfe denieth the publishing of it and it sticketh in my mind that I received many yeares agoe a refutation of it in a brotherly and ingenuous way from a stranger to me but one as I heare well affected to him Mr. Sabine Staresmore To whom I had long agoe returned an Answer but that he did not direct me where my Letter might find him But I doe not suspect Mr. Staresmore nor Mr. Williams himselfe to have published it but rather some other unadvised Christian who having gotten a copie of the Letter tooke more libertie then God alloweth to draw forth a private Admonition to publick notice in a disorderly way But howsoever it was upon the publishing of this Letter Mr. Williams hath taken occasion as is observed by some who are acquainted with the Spirit of the man first to rise up against me the meanest of many in the examining and resuting of that Letter And then as if one Mordecai were too small a morsell to stand forth against all the Churches and Elders in New-England in his Bloudy Tenent And then as if New-England were but an handfull from thence to rise up against the choisest Ornaments of two populous Nations England and Scotland the reverend Assembly of Divines together with the reverend Brethren of the Apology and above them all to addresse himselfe according to his high thoughts to propound Quaeries of high concernment as he calleth them to the High and Honourable Court of Parliament So a Bird of prey affecting to soare aloft getteth first upon the top of a molehill and from thence taketh his rise from Pale to Tree till he have surmounted the highest Mountaines In this apprehension of him they are the more confirmed as having discerned the like frame of Spirit in his former walking amongst us Time was when of all Christian Churches the Churches of New-England were accounted and professed by him to be the most pure and of all the Churches in New-England Salem where himselfe was Teacher to be the most pure But when the Churches of New-England tooke just offence at sundry of his proceedings he first renounced communion with them all and because the Church of Salem refused to joyne with him in such a groundlesse Censure he then renounced communion with Salem also And then fell off from his Ministery and then from all Church-fellowship and then from his Baptisme and was himselfe baptized againe and then from the Lords Supper and
had been then but on his way to Ephesus which is a narrow point of time it is more then propable if Timothy had been then at Ephesus he would have said Tychicus have I sent to thee to Ephesus CHAP. 39. A Reply to his 39. Chap. Discusser BVt from this place in Timothy 2 Tim. 2.25 in particular I argue thus 1. If the Civill Magistrates be Christians or Members of the Church able to prophesie to the Church of Christ then they are bound by this command of Christ to suffer opposition to their Doctrine with meeknesse and gentlenesse waiting if God peradventure will give them Repentance So also it pleaseth the Answerer to acknowledge in these words It becometh not the spirit of the Gospel to convert Aliens to the Faith such as the Samaritans and unconverted persons whether in Ephesus or Creete with Fire and Sword Defender The Answerer is still of the same mind though he might strike in upon the advantage that if the Magistrate be also a Prophet he may doe some things as a Magistrate which he may not doe as a Prophet yet he willingly acknowledgeth that if a Magistrate be also a Prophet yea whether he be a Prophet or no he ought not to seeke to subdue and convert Aliens to the Faith by Fire and Sword Discusser Secondly if the Oppositions be within and the Church-members become scandalous in Doctrine I speake not of scandalls in the Civill State which the civill Magistrate ought to punish It is the Lord onely as the Scripture in Timothy implyeth who is able to give them Repentance and to recover them out of Satans snare c. It is true the civill Sword may make a whole Nation of Hypocrites as the Lord complaineth Isay 10. and as befell our Native Country in a few scores of yeares in the severall Reignes of Henry 7. Henry 8. King Edward Queen Mary Queene Elizabeth under whom our Nation was as ready to change the fashion of their Religions as of their Suits of Apparell which hath been their sinfull shame Defender If Opposition rise from within from the Members of the Church I doe not beleive it to be lawfull for the Magistrate to seeke to subdue and convert them to be of his mind by the civill Sword But rather to use all spirituall meanes for their conviction and conversion But if the Opposition still continue in Doctrine and Worship and that against the vitals and Fundamentalls of Religion whether by Heresie of Doctrine or Idolatry in Worship and shall proceed to seeke the Seduction of others I doe beleive the Magistrate is not to tolerate such opposion against the Truth in Church-members or in any Professours of the Truth after due conviction from the word of Truth Nor is it an Objection of any weight that neither the Magistrate nor his Sword can give Repentance unto such For neither can he give Repentance unto such persons as are scandalous to the civill State whom yet notwithstanding the Discusser himselfe acknowledgeth the civill Magistrate ought to punish Though the civill Sword should not make the opposers Hypocrites yet better tolerate Hypocrites and Tares then Bryars and Thornes In such cases the civill Sword doth not so much attend the conversion of wicked Seducers as the prevention of the seduction of honest minds by their meanes What the Kings and Queens of England have done in former or later times either by violent Persecution of the Truth or in preposterous maintenance of the Truth we have cause rather to bewaile it and so hath the Discusser too if he be an English man then to justifie it as also bewaile the like vanity justly complained of in sundry of our English Nation to be as ready to change the fashion of their Religion as of their Rayment And yet he cannot be ignorant that the Lord hath chosen to himselfe sundry faithfull witnesses out of that Nation who have continued stedfast unto the death in the Profession of the Truth and have not been carried away either with the feare of civill Sword or with the deceitfull insinuations of unstable but seducing Teachers to depart from the simplicity and Truth of the Gospel But howsoever wofull and wonderfull changes have been made of Religion in England in the Reigne of foure or five Princes yet it is no more then befell the Church of Judah in the dayes of Ahaz and Hezekiah Manasseh and Josiah yet the Prophets never upbraided them with the civill Magistrater Power in causes of Religion as the cause of it Better some vicissitudes in Religion then a constant continuance in Idolatry and Popery by Princes referring all causes of Religion to Church-men The Prophecie of Englands Revolt againe to Popery wanteth Scripture Light CHAP. 40. A Reply to his Chap. 40. Discusser BVt it hath been thought and said shall Oppositions against the Truth escape unpunished will they not prove mischievous I answer as before concerning the blind Guides their case being incurable is rather to be lamented since none but the right hand of the Lord in the meeke and gentle Dispensing of the word of Truth can release them c. Defender So it is with all scandalous offenders against the civil State none can give them healing Repentance but the right hand of the Lord Jesus in the dispensing of the word of Truth yet that doth not restraine Magistrates from executing just Judgement upon them So neither doth it restraine them from executing the like just Judgement against these though not to procure the Repentance of incurable obstinate Hereticks and Idolaters yet to prevent the seduction and subversion of others What though a dead soule though changed from one Worship to another like a dead man shifted into severall suites of Apparell cannot please God Heb. 11.6 And what though Faith be that gift which proceedeth alone from that Father of Lights Phil. 1.29 Yet better a dead soule be dead in body as well as in Spirit then to live and be lively in the flesh to murder many precious soules by the Magistrates Indulgence And better he die without Faith then to live to seduce many honest minds to depart from the Faith Discusser I adde a civill Sword hardneth the followers of false Teachers by the sufferings of their false and Antichristian Seducers And secondly it begetteth in them an Impression of the falshood of that Religion which cannot uphold it selfe but with such Instruments of violence and wanteth the soft and gentle commiseration of the blindnesse of others Defender A civill Magistrate ought not to draw out his civill Sword against any Seducers Whether Hereticks or Idolaters till he have used all good meanes for their conviction and thereby clearely manifested the bowels of tender commiseration and compassion towards them But if after their continuance in obstinate Rebellion against the Light he shall still walke towards them in soft and gentle commiseration his softnesse and gentlenesse is excessive large to Foxes and wolves But his bowels are miserably straitned and hardned
affaires thereof Ephes 4. 1 Cor. 12. The other a Civill Ministery or office meerely humane and Civill which men agree to constitute therefore called an humane Creation 1 Pet. and is as true and lawfull in those Countries that never heard of the true God and his holy Sonne Jesus as in any part of the world where the Name of Christ is not taken up Defender If Magistrates be the Ministers of God as Paul calleth them then their Ministery or office is not meerely humane but as the Apostle saith it is of God and ordained of God Rom. 13.1 And if it be of God it must also be for God or else he is a Minister and servant not of God but of the world It is true men agree to constitute it to wit this or that forme of it in respect of which influence of men it is called an humane Creation but the Truth is Government it selfe is of God and ordained by God and every lawfull forme of Government whether Monarchy Aristarchy or Democracy or some mixt of these according to the State of the People they are all of God and so acknowledged and authorized by God in his word and though they be as true and lawfull in those Nations that never heard of the true God or of his holy Sonne Jesus yet it was from the guidance and appointment of God in the very light of Nature that such Nations did erect such and such Governments and Governments for the good of humane society and that not onely in worldly matters But in matters also of Religion Whence it is that in all civill Nations whose Acts are recorded either in sacred or prophane Authors their Magistrates have had not onely a due care of Justice and honesty but a reverend care of Religion also Joseph in Egypt provided for the preservation of the Lands of the Priests without Impeachment and that not out of respect to their superstition which he could not but dislike but out of regard to the Aegyptian Lawes Customes to preserve their Religion and the maintenance thereof inviolate Gen. 47.22 In Babell Nebuchadnezzar being convinced of the soveraigne Divinity of the God of Israel made a capitall Law against the blasphemers of his Name Dan. 3.29 Darius of the Medes and Persians enacted a Royall Law to like purpose Dan. 6.26 The like did Artaxerxes Ezra 7.26 and Darius before him Ezra 6.11 In Athens they had a Law against 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Irreligion upon which suffered three famous Philosophers Socrates Theodorus and Protagoras Socrates as Laertius reporteth in his Life was accused by Melitus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 who commenced his Action against him in these words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Theodorus was firnamed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and as Socrates was condemned to death by poyson so was this man also as Laertius reporteth out of Amphicrates in the life of Aristippus Protagoras as Tully reporteth of him de Natura Deorum Lib. 1. having thus expressed himselfe in the beginning of his Booke concerning the Gods I have not to say whether they be or whether they be not his Bookes were publickly burnt and himselfe banished out of City and Country How the Ephesians stood affected to the destroyers of their Religion appeareth by the excuse which the Towne-Clarke made for Paul and his Companions you have brought these men hither saith he which are neither robbers of Churches nor yet blasphemers of your Goddesse Acts 19.37 The Romans how zealous they were in defence of their Religion the slaughter of many thousand Christians will be a perpetuall Monument to all Ages All which things I recite not to justifie the misapplying of their zeale to the maintenance of false Gods but to make it appeare that as the Pagan Nations who never heard of the true God and of his Sonne Jesus did erect by instinct of Nature Governments and Magistrates so by the same instinct their Lawes and Magistrates tooke care of the maintenance of that Religion which they tooke to be of God What a shame were it that Pagan Magistrates should be more carefull and zealous of the honour of their Idols then Christians of the Honour of the knowne true God the Lord our Creator Redeemer and Sanctifier CHAP. 52. A Reply to his Chap. 52. Discusser MAny object out of ver 4. of Rom. 13. that the Magistrate is to avenge evill and therefore Heresies false Christs c. But I answer First that the word is generally opposed to civill goodnesse or vertue in a Common-wealth and not to spirituall good Secondly I have proved here as not intended evill against the spirituall or Christian State handled in chapter 12. But evill against the Civill State handled in this 13. chapter Defender What is meant by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 evill no man that I meet with Interpreteth more fully then Pareus There is saith he a foure-fold evill of which the Magistrate is the Avenger contrary to the foure-fold good whereof the Magistrate is the Preserver A naturall good a Morall good a Civill good a spirituall good A naturall good as Life and safety of our bodies A morall good as Temperance Chastity a Civill good as our goods and Lands and civill Liberties A spirituall good as the free passage of the Ordinances of God and pure Religion In opposition to these there is a foure-fold Evill Naturall as the killing and wounding and beating of our bodies morall as Drunkennesse and whoredome Civill as stealth and robbery and oppression Spirituall as Heresie Idolatry and disturbance of the free passage of Gods Ordinances As the Magistrate is bound by his office to preserve the good of the Subject in all these kinds so is he to avenge the evill done against the Subject in any of these What the Discusser hath proved to the contrary as he saith hath been Answered already in his place Discusser The Elders of New-England grant the Magistrate may not punish some evill as the secret sinnes of the Soule nor sinnes handled in the Church in a private way nor such sinnes as are private in Families As the complaints of Children against Parents Servants against Masters Wives against Husbands nor such sinnes as are between the Members and Churches themselves From whence I observe 1. That the Magistrate is not to punish all evill 2. I observe how they take away from the Magistrates that which is proper to his cognizance as the complaints of Children servants Wives against their Parents Masters Husbands c. Defender When wee say the Magistrate is an Avenger of evill we meane of all sorts or kindes of evill not every particular of each kinde secret evills in thought or affection yea in action too but neither confessed nor proved by due witnesses the Magistrate cannot punish Discusser The distinction of secret or private and publick evill will not here availe because such as urge the Terme evill viz. that the Magistrate is to punish evill they urge it strictly eo nomine because Heresie Blasphemy c.
Now whether be the greater mischeife the whole world to become Arian or to become Christian Let Christians judge The Discusser indeed speaketh of it as a soliscisme in Religion that the whole world should become Christian and quoteth for it Rev. 12. and 13. But Rev. 12. speaketh nothing to the purpose and Revel 13. speaketh of it as a marveilous evill that the whole world should wonder after the Beast ver 3. But their wondering after the Beast not a becoming Christian for they were that before nor did it spring onely from the unknowing zeale of Christian Emperors in persecuting Apostate Hereticks But rather from their sinful Indulgence in the Toleration of Hereticks in Doctrine and Idolaters in Worship For had they been zealous and watchfull against such how is it possible that ever Antichrist should have been hatched up to carry the world after him into such a notorious Apostacy It was not persecution that made the world Christian but Toleration that made the world Antichristian Furthermore the hurt of the unknowing zeale of good Emperors did to the Church came in also another way by advancing Church-Officers to Mountaines of high preferments and settled indowments Rev. 8.8 9. The Church never tooke hurt by the punishment of Hereticks Moreover when God advanced Constantine and other good Emperors to sit on the Throne It is true the Church soone became a wildernesse but that came not to passe because those Emperors forced Pagans into Church-Fellowship by the materiall Sword as the Discusser intimateth but untruly But because the common sort are willing to follow the example of great ones Regis ad exemplum totus componitur Orbis as also because of the sleepinesse of the watchmen the Elders of the Churches who should not have suffered such store of Tares to come into the communion of the Church Had the world renounced their Paganisme and professed Christ to be the Sonne of God but yet had been kept out of the Fellowship of the Church till they had approved their profession by a sincere Christian conversation It had been no soliscisme at all howsoever the Discusser judge of it though the whole world had been come Christian and stiled Christendome But it is too grosse and palpable a mistake to make this the cause why the Garden of the Church and the Field of the world became all one because the zeale of Christian Emperors intending to exalt Christ did not attend to the command of Christ to permit the Tares to grow in the Field of the world For they did permit them to live in the Field of the world they seldome or never put any to death for Hereticall pravity though it had bin better they had so done with some of them But onely exiled them from such Cities and Countryes as were most Populous where if they had continued they might have had too great an opportunity of spreading their leaven which as the Apostle speaketh fretteth like a Gangrene 1 Tim. 2.17 CHAP. 62. A Reply to his Chap. 65. Discusser I Desire you to glance your eye on this not unworthy observation how fully this Answere hath learned the Language of Lyon like Persecution c. for thus he writeth more and greater Princes then these you mention have not Tolerated Hereticks and Schismatiks notwithstanding their pretence of Conscience and their Arrogating the Crowne of Martyrdome to their sufferings T is true these termes Hereticks or wilfully obstinate and Schismaticks are used in holy writ t is true also that such pretend Conscience and Arrogate the Crowne of Martyrdome to their sufferings But this is the common clamour of Persecutors against the witnesses of Jesus in all ages you are Hereticks Schismaticks factious Seditious rebellious Defender If it be true that these be Scripture termes and by his owne acknowledgement truly applyable to Hereticks and Schismaticks then it seemeth the Discusser hath learned this Language of Ashdod that the Scripture it self and Truth it selfe speaketh the roaring Language of Lyon-like Persecution For he acknowledgeth the Scripture useth the same termes and Truth verefieth the same things In Summe It is as much to say as Paul had learned the roaring and railing Language of Lyon-like Pharoah Pharoah told the Children of Israel yee are idle yee are idle Exod. 5.17 And Paul had learned to say as much to the Cretians by his Letter to Titus The Cretians are alwayes liars evill beasts and flow bellyes Tit. 1.12 But is it so indeed may not the same reproofe unjustly cast upon Gods servants be justly applyed to Gods enemies wâ—en by the Discussers owne confessiâ—n it may be applyed truly If Persecutors misapply Scripture Termes rebukes to Christs Witnesses falsely may not a servant of God apply the same truly as the Scripture applyeth them but he shall be thought to learne to speake not the Language of Scripture but the Language of persecutors Discusser Ob it is hard for Gods Children to fall to Opinion and practise of Persecution without ready learning the Language thereof And doubtlesse that soule that can so readily learne Babels Language hath cause to feare that he hath not yet in Point of Worship left the gates or suburbs of it Defender If this Language used by me be the Termes of Scripture and by the acknowledgement of Truth rightly applyed then it is the Language of Canaan and not of Babel What Language they have learned who in point of Worship have left Zion but not the gates and Suburbs of Babel for they set up Bulwaâ—ks of Impunity to secure them Let themselves in the feare of God confider But what Language is it to speake of me as having learned the opinion practise of persecution I desiâ—e the God of Truth to teach him to know It is the Language of him that stood not in the Truth and of such also as call evill good and good evill Discusser Againe in blaming Julian the Apostate and Valens the Arian for Tolerating all weeds to grow he noteth their sinfull end that thereby they might choake the vitalls of Christianity and seemeth herein to consent on a speech of Jerome That the weeds of false Religions tolerated have a Power to kill true Christianity in the Church But when Christianity began to be choaked It was not when Christians lodged in cold Prisons but Downe-Beds of ease and Persecuted others Defender I noted indeed the sinfull end of Julian the Apostate in tolerating all Religions and Heresies to aime at the choaking of the vitalls of Christianity Of Valens I noted the like finfull practise of Tolerating all Religions but did not expresse his end But what I spake of the end concerned Julian and I spâ—ke of it not of mine owne imagination though he that shall read the stories of his Apostacy and malignity against the Name of Christ and Christians might easily beleive and speake it without rashnesse but I speake it out of a grave and judicious Authour who lived neere those times I meane Aligustine who in his 166
and rule a thousand yeares Revel 20.4 Shall their freedome from persecution be a dissolution of the Church-Estate The like may be said of the New Jerusalem the Churches of the Jewes after the destruction of Gog and Magog when God shall wipe away all teares from their eyes and take away Death violent Death sorrow crying and paine Rev. 21.4 shall they then cease to be Churches when persecution ceaseth Beside to persecute is not alwayes a marke of a false Church for then it would be a marke of a false Member of a Church or a marke of a Member of a false Church but the contrary appeareth in the example of Asa who persecuted the Prophet of God for his holy Message sake 2 Chron. 16.10 And it hath been shewed above that Stephen complaineth of the persecution of all the Prophets Acts 7.51 And if they were persecuted it was by the Church of the Old Testament and if therefore the Church of the Old Testament was false God had then no Church extant upon the face of the Earth It is therefore a begging of the Question to affirme that those Churches cannot be truly Christian who by themselves or by the Civill power of Kings doe punish such as dissent from them or are opposite against them And indeed a double begging of the Question it is For 1. It beggeth that for the Question which is not the Question for it is no Question but out of Question that it is not lawfull for a Christian Church to punish men for dissenting from them or being opposite to them But the Question is whether Christian Magistrates may not punish Apostate Hereticks and Seducers not for dissenting from the Church but for seducing from Christ and blaspheming against his Name And if you will whether the Church may not stirre up the Christian Magistrate after all milder helps used without a vaile to doe his Duty in such a case 2. It is another begging of the Question to take that for granted which is not yet proved that it is a marke of no true Christian Church to procure the civill punishment of incurable obstinate Hereticks and Seducers Discusser When the Answerer saith that to Excommunicate an Heretick is not to persecute I answer If the Answerer were throughly awaked from the Spouses spirituall slumber Cant. 5. and had recovered from the Drunkennesse of the great Whore who intoxicateth the Nations Rev. 17. It is impossible that he should so answer For who questioneth whether to excommunicate an Heretick be to persecute Excommunication being of a spirituall nature a sentence denounced by the word of Christ Jesus the spirituall King of the Chureh and a spirituall killing by the two edged Sword of the Spirit in delivering up the person Excommunicate unto Satan Therefore who seeth not this Answer cometh not neere the Question Defender I must still professe my selfe to be one of them that see it not For first the Author of the Letter did no where expresse himselfe to put any difference neither between Church and Court in point of censure for cause of Conscience nor between causes of Religion whether true or false If it be unlawfull to banish any from the Common-wealth for cause of Conscience it is unlawfull to banish any from the Church for cause of Conscience The Church ought to be more tender of the Liberty of Conscience then the Court as being more acquainted with the tendernesse of Conscience Secondly if the censure of a man for cause of Conscience by the civill Sword be persecution it is a farre greater persecution to censure a man for cause of Conscience by the Spirituall Sword by how much the more sharp and keen the spirituall Sword is above the civill Sure I am Christ Jesus reckoneth Excommunication for persecution Luke 21.12 They shall lay their hands on you and persecute you delivering you up to the Synagogues and into Prisons To deliver up into Synagogues is as much persecution as to deliver into Prisons And will the Discusser then say that if Christ had been awakened from his spirituall slumber and from the Drunkennesse of the great Whore it had been impossible he should have accounted Excommunication a persecution Me thinks if a soule were awakened unto spirituall sobriety he should judge it a sorer and a deeper affliction to be bound with spirituall chaines both in Earth and Heaven then to be bound in materiall chaines on Earth onely Discusser But Hilary his complaynt speaketh not to Excommunications but to civill censures Defender Therefore my Answer was to him partly by proportion partly by concession Hilary said the Christian Church did not persecute but is persecuted Whereto I Answered 1. That Excommunication of an Heretick is no persecution and therefore by proportion neither is the civill punishment of an Heretick persecution And the Reason in my words following reacheth both for to persecute is to punish an Innocent But an Heretick is not an Innocent but a culpable and damnable person 2. I answered by concession of Hilaryes words in Hilaries meaning it is true what Hilary saith neither did the Apostles nor may wee propogate Christian Religion by the Sword c. Discusser But a Christian Church doth no more persecute then a Lilly doth scratch thornes or a Lamb pursue and teare the Wolves or a Turtle Dove doth hunt the Hawkes or Eagles or a chast modest virgin fight and scratch like Whores and Harlots Defender If by persecution the Discusser meaneth as it seemeth he doth the infliction of the civill punishments his speech is true and the proportion holdeth civill punishments are as improper for Christian Churches to inflict as for Lillies to scratch Thornes or Lambes to teare Wolves c. But if the Lambes he speaketh of in his comparison were as reasonable as the Lambes of Christ be though they would not themselves pursue and teare the Wolves yet they would runne to their Shepheards and civill Magistrates are the shepheards of all their people to send out their dogs after the Wolves to pursue and teare them I see no reason why the chast and modest eye of a Christian Church should any more spare and pity a spirituall Adulterer that seeketh to withdraw her from her spouse to a false Christ then the eye of an Holy Israelite was to spare and pitie the like Tempters in dayes of old Deut. 13.8 CHAP. 66. A Reply to his Chap. 69. Discusser THe Answer by concession to Hilaryes words may surther be discussed It is true saith the Answerer as Hylary speaketh that neither the Apostles nor we may propagate Christian Religion by the Sword But if Pagans cannot be wonne by the word they are not to be compelled by the Sword Neverthelesse this hindreth not but if they or any other should blaspheme the true God and his true Religion they ought to be severely punished and no lesse doe they deserve who seduce from the Truth to damnable Heresie and Idolatrie In which Answer I observe First his Agreement with Hilary that Christian
abounded in worldly blessings till the Lord Jesus came riding forth amongst them upon a White Horse of the Gospel of his Grace yet after they neglected so great Salvation then followed a Red Horse of Warre and a black Horse of Famine and a Pale Horse of Pestilence and other Judgements which much impeached both the health and wealth of that State and would have ruined it had it not cast away her Idolls and advanced the Scepter of the Lord Jesus Now the God of all Grace be pleased at length to shake the heart of this Discusser that he may not thus delight to seduce himselfe and others against the Light of Grace and Conscience against Reason and Experience Discusser Againe in the Answerers Joynt-confession with Luther that the Church doth not use the secular power to compell men to the Faith and Profession of the Truth he condemneth as before I have observed 1. His former implication that they may be compelled when they are convinced of the Truth of it Defender This implication where it was formerly observed it hath been formerly cleared from implication of Contradiction I have never said that after men be convinced of the Truth they may be compelled to the Profession of it by any penalties but onely by withdrawing such favours as are not comely or safe for faithlesse persons Discusser 2. He condemneth their owne Practise who suffer no man of any different Conscience and worship to live in their Jurisdiction unlesse he depart from the Exercise of his owne Religion and worship differing from that allowed of in their civill Estate yea and also actually submit to come to their Church Defender This charge of the Discusser let him consider if it be not contradictory to his owne Relation chap. 60. where he saith wee permit and tolerate the Indians in their Paganish worship which wee might restraine Yet here he saith we suffer no man of any different Conscience or worship to live in our Jurisdiction Neither is it true that we suffer no man of any different Conscience or worship to live in our Jurisdiction For not to speake of Presbyterians who doe not onely live amongst us but exercise their publick Ministry without disturbance there be Anabaptists and Antinomians tolerated to live not onely in our Jurisdictions but even in some of our Churches Yea saith the Discusser but they must actually submit to come to our Church I cannot say nor doe I beleive that any man is compelled to come to our Church against his Conscience Nay we are so farre from that and that the Discusser is not ignorant of that our Churches doe not expostulate with our Members who heare in England no not then when there was more difference from us in manner of worship then through the mercy of God now there is The which the Discusser himselfe hath declared to have been no little Offence unto himselfe Which maketh me the more to marvell that he should now charge it upon us that we compell all to come to heare in our Churches against their Consciences when he is wont to be offended that we suffer them to heare in any true Church though polluted according to their Consciences Discusser Howsoever they cover the matter with this varnish that none are compelled further unto their Churches then unto the hearing of the word unto which all men are bound yet it will appeare that Teaching and being taught in a Church Estate is a Church-worship as true-and proper a Church-worship as is the Supper of the Lord Acts 2.46 I cannot call to mind that either upon that colour or any other any man in this Country was ever compelled to heare the word of God in any of our Churches in this Country But there is indeed some colour for the varnish he speaketh of but not that which he pretendeth our compulsion of any man for to heare but a controversie with himselfe upon another occasion as I remember The Discusser sometimes endeavoured to draw away the Church of Salem whereof he was sometime Teacher from holding Communion with all the Churches in the Bay because wee tolerated our Members to heare the word in the Parishes of England Wee to satisfie him in that held forth that which here he calleth a varnish that hearing was a common Duty lying upon all men where the word of God was truly taught He replyed as he doth now that Teaching and hearing in a Church-Estate is Church worship Acts 2.46 To which we gave Answer as now againe That though Teaching and being taught in a Church-Estate be Church-worship according to Acts 2.46 yet it is not a Church-worship but to such as are in a Church-Estate To all it is an holy Ordinance of Gods worship and a Christian Duty And though Teaching and hearing doth imply a Relation yet not a Church-relation There is a relation between a Teacher and a Learner in any Art or Knowledge and there may be a nearer relation between a Preacher and an Hearer in case the Hearer be begotten to God by such a Sermon even the same relation as is between a spirituall Father and Sonne but this doth not amount to Church-relation and Communion till there passe some mutuall profession of Covenant explicit or implicit between them A Pagan Infidell may come into a Christian Church-Assembly to heare the word and may be convinced and converted by it as suppose he in Corinth 1 Corinthians 14.24 25. yet is he not therefore joyned in Church-Estate and Fellowship with them without profession of acknowledgement and acceptance Discusser Secondly all persons Papist and Protestant that are Conscientious have alwayes suffered upon this ground especially that they have refused to come to each others Church or meeting Defender It is too large an Hyperbole to affirme that all persons that are Conscientious whether Papist or Protestant have alwayes suffered upon this ground Are no men conscientious but such as have suffered upon this ground are there not many that were never put upon this Tryall and are not many conscientious that never scrupled this point and are there not many conscientious that have suffered upon other points that never suffered upon this point Besides though many conscientious Protestants and Papists doe refuse to heare in each others Assembly or Church it is not because such hearing doth implant them into their Church-State but out of feare to be leavened with their corrupt Doctrine or polluted with some other part of false worship CHAP. 71. A Reply to his Chap. 74. Touching the Testimony of the Papists against Persecution Discusser AS for the Testimony of the Popish Booke saith the Answerer wee veigh it not as knowing what ever they speake for toleration of Religion where themselves are under Hatches yet when themselves come to sit at Sterne they Judge and practise quite contrary as both their writings and judiciall proceedings have testified to the world these many yeares But for Answer to him though both their writings and practises have been such yet the
that the Spirit of God maketh the Ministry one of the Foundations of Christian Religion Heb. 6.1.2 for it is onely a foundation of Church Order not of faith or Religion the Apostle puts an expresse difference between faith and Church Order Colos 2.5 Nor is it a true and safe speech to call the Fellowship or blessing of God vouchsafed to corrupt Churches or Ministers or Ministrations to call it I say unpromised or to be beyond a word or promise of God For it is a large and yet an expresse promise of the Covenant of Grace that God will be mercifull to our iniquities Ier. 31.34 That he will be mercifull to every one that prepareth his heart to seeke God though he be not cleansed according to the Purification of the Sanctuary 2 Chron. 30.18 19 20. with many more such like And therefore there wants not Promises of Grace and blessing to the People of God notwithstanding some defects and impurities found in their Administrations Neither will it follow that if our Ministery and Ordination here be true that then the former which we had in England was false especially so false as that according to visible Rule Fellowship with God was lost For the Rite of Ordination we doe not looke at it as any Essentiall Part of our vocation to the Ministry no more then Coronation is an Essentiall Part of the Office of the King And though we doe not justly sundry things found in our Ministry yet Jehoshuah the High Preist did not loose his Fellowship with God though he was cloathed with filthy Garments Zach. 3.3 4. 2. Concerning Prayer though the New English Ministers have witnessed against the Common set-Forme thereof which yet our selves in our ignorance have somtimes used and have therefore seen just cause to judge our selves since yet we did not thereby loose fellowship with God by such sinnnes of Ignorance no more then the People of God did in the dayes of Hezekiah by sacrificeing to God in the High places when yet they did it to the Lord their God onely 2 Chron. 33.17 I know no such faithfull Admonishers as presented to us in England Arguments against the Common Prayer which then seemed weake but now are acknowledged to be sound though such a thing possibly may be true howsoever forgotten But this I am perswaded to be utterly false that any of us satisfied our hearts with the Practise of the Author of the Councell of Trent who used to read some of the choysest select Prayers out of the Mass-Booke The Spirit of a childe of God though upon occasion he may receive such a Practise yet he can never satisfie himselfe with the Practise of any godly man for the warrant of his Imitation without some further light or at least apprehension of light from the word 3. It is readily graunted that which is observed in the third place That Gods people may live and die in such kindes of Worship though light from the Word whether publickly or privately hath been presented to them able to convince Neverthelesse that will not weaken the Conclusion formerly mentioned and afterwards further discussed That Fundamentalls are so cleare that a man cannot but be convinced in Conscience of the Truth of them after two or three Admonitions and that therefore such a Person as still continueth obstinate is condemned of himselfe and if he then be punished He is not punished for his Conscience but for sinning against his owne Conscience For both these may well stand together and are farre of from crossing or contrarying one another A set forme of Prayer though it be unlawfull yet it is not such a Fundamentall Error either in judgement or practise as cutteth off from fellowship with God That is onely a resolute Assertion of the Discusser but a vouched without all colour or pretence from the Scripture There is some resemblance and proportion betweene Praying and Prophesying Moses used an unwarranted way and Forme of Prophesying when God Commaunding him to speake to the Rock before the Congregation of Israel He spake not to the Rock but stroke it with his Rod for which he had no Commaundement and spake to the People and that in a Passion and and both without a Commaundament Numb 20.8.11 And yet this did not cutt off his Fellowship with God nor Gods gracious Presence with him in giving water to the People no not at that time God knoweth how to be present with his People in blessing their Administrations and forgiving their iniquities though he doe take vengeance of their Inventions Psal 99.8 4. Though I doe maintaine as the Apostle doth a Clearnesse of Fundamentall Points of Religion and Worship such Fundamentalls I say without which Fellowship with God cannot be had and though I graunt that in subserting such Fundamentall Points and persisting therein after once or twice Admonition a man sinneth against his owne Conscience and is therefore censurable by the Church yea and by the Civill Magistrate also if after Conviction he continue to seduce others unto his Damnable Heresie yet I doe not herein measure to others that which my self when I lived in such practises would not have measured to my selfe For I thank God God never left me to live in any such Practises as to fall into any Fundamentall Error much lesse to Persist therein after Conviction and Admonition and least of all to seduce others thereinto If God should leave me so farre as to fall so fearefully into this three-fold degree of Hereticall wickednesse what am I better then other men better my selfe cut off by death or Banishment then the Flock of Christ to be seduced and destroyed by my Hereticall wickednesse CHAP. 6. A Reply to his sixth Chapter Discussing Civill peace and the Disturbance of it IN this Chapter the Discusser undertaketh to declare what Civill peace is and to shew that the Toleration of different Religions is no Disturbance of Civill Peace First for Civill peace what is it saith he but Pax Civitatis whether English or Irish Spanish or Turkish City Reply Be it so and if the Civill State or Common-wealth containe many Citties or Townes and so become a whole Countrey or Common-wealth let Civill Peace be the peace of the Countrey or of the Common-wealth But what is then the peace of the Citty or Countrey Is it not Tranquillitas Ordinis the tranquility of order in every Society wherein the Publicke Weale of the Citty or Countrey is concerned And is it not the proper worke of the Civill Magistrate to preserve the Civill Peace and to prevent or reforme the disturbance of the Tranquility or Peace of any such Societyes in whose Peace the Peace or Weale of the Citty or Society is concerned Suppose a Society of Merchants or Cloathyers or Fishmongers or Drapers or the like If the Weale of the Citty or Countrey be concerned in these as it is much concerned in them all It is not for the safety of the Civill Sate to suffer any of these so
Chapter Onely 2. Things more remaine in this Chapter which may not passe without some touch 1. That he saith Gods People in all their awakenings acknowledge how sleightly they have listned to the checks of their owne Conscience This the Answerer pleaseth to call sinning against Conscience for which he may lawfully be persecuted to wit for sinning against his owne Conscience Wherein there is found a double falshood 1. That he saith I call the sleight listnings of Gods People to the checks of their Conscience their sinning against Conscience For I speake not of the sinning of Gods People against Conscience but of an Heretick subverted turned off from the Foundation much lesse doe I call their sleight listnings to Conscience to be Hereticall sinning against Conscience 2. Least of all doe I say that for such sleight listnings to the checks of Conscience he may lawfully be persecuted to wit as for sinning against Conscience Thus men that have time and leasure at will will set up Images of clouts and then shoot at them The 2. Thing in this Chapter which I said might not passe without some touch is that having fastned upon me a conclusion which is none of mine but an invention of his owne He addeth howsoever it be painted over with vermillion c. yet he hopeth to manifest it to be the overturning and rooting up of the roote of all true Christianity and absolutely denying the Lord Jesus to be come in the flesh Whereto I Reply no more but this If he doe manifest that which Magnanimously he undertaketh It may happyly be also manifested by the helpe of Christ that it will overturne no conclusion of mine But howsoever let him remember it was a proverb in Israel Let not him that girdeth on his Armour boast himselfe as he that putteth it off 2 Kings 20.11 CHAP. 15. A Reply to his fifteenth Chapter touching the admonition and rejection of an Heretick THe first and second Admonitions in the place of Titus were not Civill or corporall punishments on mens persons or purses But they were the reprehensions convictions exhortations and perswasions of the word of the Eternall God charged home to the Conscience in the Name and Presence of the Lord Jesus in the midst of his Church Which being despised and not hearkened unto in the last place followeth rejection which is not a cutting off by heading hanging burning nor an expelling out of the Countrey and coasts but the dreadfull cutting off from the visible head and body Christ Jesus and his Church Spirituall cutting off by Excommunication Defender All this the proofes of this in this Chapter I willingly consent and subscribe unto nor doth this touch any conclusion of mine at all much lesse Discusse or shake it For though I said indeed that for an erroneous and blinde Conscience even in Fundamentall and weighty Points It is not lawfull to persecute any till after Admonition once or twice according to Tit. 3.10.11 Yet in alledging that place to prove that Conclusion I intended no other persecution but the Churches prosecution against such an Heretick by excommunication no syllable in my conclusion looketh at more If it be said but Excommunication or any other Church-prosecution cannot fitly be called persecution Yes verily excommunication is a persecution and a lawfull persecution if the cause be just offence as the Angell of the Lord is said to persecute the wicked Psalm 35.6 But the Excommunication is a cruell and bitter persecution If it be without just cause and due order yea and the more greivous persecution by how much the more greivous it is to a Christian man to be excluded from the Communion of the Saints then to be banished from a civill Society sure it is the Lord Jesus accounteth it a persecution to his Disciples to be delivered up unto the Synagogues and to be cast forth out of the Synagogues Luk. 21.12 with Joh. 16.2 CHAP. 16. A Reply to his sixteenth Chapter touching To leration in Points of lesse moment Discusser For a third Position or Conclusion the Answerer gave this that in things of lesse moment whether Points of Doctrine or Worship If a man hold them forth in a spirit of Christian meeknesse and love though with zeale and constancy he is not to be persecuted but tolerated till God may be pleased to manifest his truth to him This conclusion I acknowledge to be the Truth of God yet 3. things are very observeable in the manner of laying it downe 1. That such a Person may be tolerated till God may be pleased to reveale his truth to him upon the same ground the Apostle calleth for meeknesse and Gentlenesse towards all men and towards such as oppose themselves 2. Tim. 2. because it may be God may give them repentance Hence a soule that is lively and sensible of Gods mercy cannot but be patient and gentle towards the Jewes towards the Turkes yea to all the severall sorts of Anti-Christians yea to the Pagans and to the wildest sort of the Sonnes of men who have not heard of the Father and of the Sonne c. Yea not onely be patient to such but also to pray for such yea and to endeavour their participation of the same grace and mercy Defender This nothing shaketh no nor so much as toucheth our cause or defence we thinke it unlawfull for the Church to censure such as are out of the Church And for the Civill State we know no ground they have to persecute Jewes or Turkes or other Pagans for cause of Religion though they all erre in Fundamentalls No nor would I exempt Anti-Christians neither from Toleration notwithstanding their Fundamentall Errors unlesse after conviction they still continue to seduce simple soules into their damnable and pernicious Heresies as into the Worship of false Gods into confidence of their owne merits for Justification into seditious conspiracyes against the lives and States of such Princes as will not submit their Consciences to the Bishop of Rome Which if the Discusser shall in the sequell pluck off as the silken covering of an Image as he calleth it we shall further attend him Discusser 2. I observe from the Scriptures he quoteth for this Toleration Phil. 3. Rom. 14. how closely yet I hope unadvisedly he maketh the Churches of Christ at Philippi and Rome all one with the Cities of Philippi and Rome c. Defender No such matter I never thought these Scriptures to belong at all to the Cities of Philippi or Rome Paul writeth to both the Churches not only to tolerate but to receive their weake brethren who dissent from them in matters of lesse moment but to the Cities I never read any Epistle of his Who would ever imagine the Discusser should be so farre transported beyond all bounds either of reason or truth or candor as to surmise the Answerer should conceive That what those Churches must not tolerate in their holy communion that the Cities of Philippi and Rome must not tolerate within the compasse
of the mouth of the Lord Jesus for he shall begin to be consumed long before by all the seven vials of the wrath of God Revel 16. which have bin and will be in powring out many ages before the great Harvest of the end of the world Yea I beleive also He shall be destroyed many ages before then as the Apostle John foretelleth in Chap. 20.21.22 of the Revelation And though it be translated in 2 Thess 2.8 The Lord shall destroy him with the brightnesse of his coming yet the word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth as well and more firstly signifie Presence then comming The Lord will destroy Antichrist with the brightnesse of his Presence in his sacred and Civill Ordinances sundry ages before the brightnesse of his comming to Judgement Otherwise we should set John Paul at variance who spake by one and the same Spirit of Truth CHAP. 27. A Reply to his 27. Chap. Discussing a doubt how Ministers may be bidden to let Antichristians alone in the Civill State Discusser If it be objected These servants whom the Householder commaundeth to let the Tares alone seeme to be Ministers or Messengers of the Gospell How shall it belong to them to plucke up the Tares or to let them alone if by the Feild be meant the world Ans The Apostles and in them all that succeed them received from the Lord a threefold charge 1. To let them alone and not to pluck them up by Prayer to God for their present temporall destruction 2. Not to prophecy or denounce a present destruction or extirpation of all false Professours of the Name of Christ T is true many soare and fearefull plagues are powred out upon the Roman Emperors and Roman Popes yet not to their utter extirpation untill the Harvest 3. Not to pluck them up by stirring up Civill Magistrates and powers to punish and persecute all such persons out of their dominions as worship not the true God according to his revealed will in Christ Jesus T is true Elijah thus stirred up Ahab to kill all the Preists and Prophets of Baal but that was in the figurative state of the Land of Canaan not to be matcht or paraled by any other State but the Spirituall State or Church of Christ in all the world putting the false Prophets Spiritually to death by the two-edged sword and power of the Lord Jesus as that Church of Israel did corporally Defender These 3. Interpretations of Let them alone are all of them so many evasions slippery evasions sought out by the subtile wit of man to winde out from under the Authority of the Truth and word of Christ For 1. Why should not the Ministers of Christ Pray either to pluck them up out of their Antichristian Idolatryes or else to pluck them up as the Plantations which our Heavenly Father hath not planted He that may Pray daily for the comming of Christs Kingdome He may and doth and ought to pray for the comming downe of all opposite Kingdomes The Saints under the Altar that prayed against the delay of vengeance on the Roman Emperors Revel 6.10 may more justly pray against the delay of vengeance on the Roman Antichrists What though the State of the Roman Antichristians was to continue for sundry ages before their finall extirpation Yet they were to expect vialls of Gods indignation to roote them out by a graduall extirpation in sundry of their cheife branches and pillars long before the extirpation of their whole Kingdome And what though the Saints in old Babell were to pray for the Peace of the City as wherein themselves might finde Peace Yet the Saints that live not in such Anâ—ichristian Territoryes they may safely pray for the hastning of the redemption of their brethren out of the Antichristian bondage and there withall pray for the hastning of the ruine and desolation of the Antichristian Kingdome Besides Certaine it is from the Word of Truth that the Antichristian Kingdome shall be destroyed and rooted up by Christian Princes and States long before the great Harvest of the end of the world as hath been shewen a bove And either such Princes must performe this great worke without Prayer and then it were not sanctified to God 1 Tim. 4.4 5. Or if it be a sacrifice sanctified to God they must pray for their desolation before they inflict it And all the seven Angells who powre out their vialls on the Antichristian State tending to the rooting of it out by degrees They either pray for the successe of the vengeance of their vialls or else they doe not powre them out in faith which were contrary to the spirit of such holy Saints who come out of the Temple opened in Heaven and are cloathed with pure and white linnen and have their breasts girded with golden girdles Rev. 15.6 2. If John the Apostle have Prophecied and denounced the destruction and extirpation of Antichristian Idolaters and their whole State why may not a Minister and Messenger of Christ according to the measure of light received open those Prophecyes and apply them with severe threatnings against thme and their State Yea but they may not apply or denounce them to their present destruction or extirpation Yes to the present destruction of some or other Antichristian Idolaters in every age though the State may continue wasting till the time appointed It might as truely be said the Ministers of Christ are forbidden to denounce present or speedy destruction to any murtherers whoremongers Tyrants extortioners because though some of them may fall under many sore and feareful plagues yet there will never want a company of such wicked doers till the Great Harvest the end of the world Besides what if a messenger of Christ should not denounce present destruction yet he cannot be said to let them alone who is hewing at them to bring them to destruction many yeares before It is not every stroake with an Axe that felleth an Oake it may be not an hundred not a thousand stroakes yet no stroake is lost that maketh way for the felling of it at the last Neither can he be said to let the Tree alone that striketh and heweth at it every day So he that heweth at the Antichristian State every day by Prayer and Preaching He doth not let it alone though it may stand many a yeare after It will fall the sooner and with more facility for every stroake 3. Nor can it be the meaning of Christ in commanding his Ministers to let the Tares alone to forbid them to stirr up Princes and States to the rooting out of Antichristian Idolaters and all such false worshippers as destroy the Truth and Religion of the Lord Jesus For amongst all the Angells that powred out their vials upon the Antichristian State it is not credible that none of them should be Messengers of the Gospell And when the ten Kings shall burne the City of Rome and leave it desolate and naked It is not credible
Jesus onely Defender Reply 1. But he that corrupteth a soule with a corrupt religion or worship layeth a spreading leaven which corrupteth the State The Idolatry began in the House of Micah corrupted Laish Judges chap. 17. and chap. 18. And that was the beginning of sinne to the Daughter of Zion Micah 1.13 And that Apostacy was the captivity of the Land As in the New-Testament the worship of Images was the advancement of the Turkes and the ruine of Christian States Rev. 9.14 to 21. When therefore the corruption or destruction of soules is a destruction also of lives liberties estates of men lex talionis calleth for not onely soule for soule but life for life Reply 2. False Prophets in the Old-Testament did but corrupt the soules of some and it may be did not corrupt them neither but attempted it onely And yet amongst Gods people where lex talionis was much attended the Law was Thine eye shall not spare him Deut. 13. The reason of which execution is not fetched from any typicall holinesse of the Land but from the dangerous wickednesse of the attempt to thrust away a soule from God which is a greater injury then to deprive a man of bodily life Discusser But dead men cannot die nor be infected Naturall men the civill State the world are dead in sinne c. Defender Reply 1. Dead men may be made worse by corrupt Teachers two-fold more the children of hell then before Matth. 23.15 And therefore such as so corrupt them are worthy in a way of due proceeding of a two-fold death Reply 2. Such as professe the truth of the Doctrine and Worship of Christ they live a kind of spirituall life though not such as accompanieth salvation Else how are false Teachers and such as are led by them said to be twice dead plucked up by the roots Jude ver 12. And therefore it is not true that such as being in a naturall state are dead in sinne annot be infected nor die againe Discusser As in the common infection of the plague so in the infection of heresie none can be strucke deadly but whom God hath thereunto ordained c. Defender Reply 1. No more can any man be murthered but whom God hath ordained thereunto But it is a prophane sacriledge to excuse or alleviate the punishment of sinne by Gods eternall predestination Was the sinne of Herod or the Jewes or of Pontius Pilate any whit the lesse because they did nothing against Christ but what the hand of God and his Counsell had fore-determined to be done Acts 4.29 Sure it is Christ aggravateth the sinne of Judas and of the High-Priests and Elders of the Jewes by this Argument that Pilate could doe nothing against him but as it was given him from above Therefore saith he he that delivered me to thee hath the greater sinne John 19.11 Reply 2. The Discusser himselfe acknowledgeth That though in a common plague or infection none are smitten or die but such as are ordained thereunto yet it is not onely every mans duty but the common duty of the Magistrates to prevent infection and to preserve the common health of the place by removing infectious persons into solitary tabernacles Discusser True but the meanes God hath appointed for preservation from spirituall infection and perdition are spirituall such as God directeth to Rev. 2. Tit. 3.10 11. Rom. 16.17 But the Lord Jesus never appointed the civill sword for either Antidote or Remedy as an addition to those Spirituals The Remedy which God preseribed to the Angell of the Church of Pergamus It were a Babylonish confusion to interpret it as sent to the Governour of the City of Pergamus Defender Subordinata and so Coordinata non pugnant It is true Christ hath appointed spirituall meanes for the avoiding and preventing the infection of heresies so hath he also for the preventing and avoiding all offences in Church-members But that hindreth not the lawfull and necessary use of a civill sword for the punishment of some such offences as are subject to Church-censure If indeed the Ordinances of Christ in the Church doe prevaile to the avoiding and healing of heresies there is no need of the civill sword for that end But it often falleth out otherwise as 1. That when the Church hath cast out an Heretick yet he still remaineth obstinate and proceedeth to seduce and destroy the faith of some it may be of many as did Hymeneus and Philetus 2 Tim. 2.17 18. If the Magistrates sword doe here rust in the scabberd such leaven may leaven the whole Masse of a City or Countrey As by this meanes Arrianisme leavened the world by the indulgence of Constantius Ingemuit Orbis Christianus miratus est factum se esse Arrianum 2. It may be the Heretick was never any member of the Church and then though the Church may lay in some Antidotes and Purges to preserve or recover their Members yet how shall they succour such as are not subject to their censures Or how shall they prevent the spreading of this noisome leprofie in private Conventicles But the Lord Jesus never appointed the civill sword for an Antidote or Remedy in such a case Answ It is evident the civill sword was appointed for a remedy in this case Deut. 13. And appointed it was by that Angell of Gods presence whom God promised to send with his people as being unwilling to goe along with them himselfe Exod. 33.2 3. And that Angell was Christ whom they tempted in the wildernesse 1 Cor. 10.9 And therefore it cannot truely be said that the Lord Jesus never appointed the civill sword for a remedy in such a case For he did expressely appoint it in the Old-Testament nor did he ever abrogate it in the New The reason of the Law which is the life of the Law is of eternall force and equity in all Ages Thou shult surely kill him because be hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God Deut. 13.9 10. This reason is of morall that is of universall and perpetuall equity to put to death any Apostate seducing Idolater or Heretick who seeketh to thrust away the soules of Gods people from the Lord their God If Magistrates be the Ministers of God in the New-Testament as Paul calleth them Rom. 13.4 And Ministers of God to execute vengeance on him that doeth evill surely either this is no evill to seeke to thrust away Gods people from him or the Magistrate beareth not the sword in vaine to execute vengeance on such an evill doer Yea but such an evill is evill onely to the inner man not to the civill State Answ But if a man imagine evill against the Lord it is a destructive evill to a whole City yea to a Pagan City and God will visit such an evill with such an affliction as shall be no lesse then utter destruction to such a City It shall not rise up the second time Nahum 1.9.11 Discusser But the eivill Magistrate hath his charge of the bodies
and goods of the Subject as the Spirituall-Officers of Christs City or Kingdome have the charge of their soules and soule-safety Defender Reply 1. If it were true That the Magistrate hath charge onely of the bodies and goods of the Subject yet that might iustly excite to watchfulnesse against such pollutions of Religion as tend to Apostacy For if the Church and People of God fall away from God God will visit the City and Countrey with publicke calamity if not captivity for the Churches sake The Idolatry and image-Image-worship of Christians brought in the Turkish captivity upon the Cities and Countryes of Asia and upon some of Europe also as hath been shewed above Reply 2. It is a carnall and worldly and indeed an ungodly imagination to confine the Magistrates charge to the bodies and goods of the Subiect and to exclude them from the care of their soules Did ever God commit the charge of the body to any Governours to whom he did not commit in his way the care of soules also Hath God committed to Parents the charge of their childrens bodies and not the care of their soules To Masters the charge of their servants bodies and not of their soules to Captaine 's the charge of their souldiers bodies and not of their soules shall the Captaines suffer false worship yea idolatry publickly professed and practised in the campe and yet looke to prosper in the Battell The Magistrates to whom God hath committed the charge of bodies and outward man of the Subiect are they not also to take care to procure faithfull Teachers to be sent amongst them Jehosaphat tooke faithfull care for the soules of his people in this kind 2 Chron. 17.7 8 9. Neither did he this as a Type of Christ but as a Servant of Christ Those things are said to be done as Types of Christ which being ceremoniall duties were afterwards done by Christ in his owne Person and so were in him accomplished and abolished And it would be sacriledge to performe the same after him But let the conscience of any sincere Christian iudge whether it would be sacriledge in a godly Magistrate to procure the sending forth of godly Preachers into all the blind corners of his countrey The truth is Church-Governous and civill-governours doe herein stand paralell one to another The Chuch-Governours though to them be chiefely committed the charge of soules as their adaequate obiects yet in order to the good of the soules of their people to dehort from idlenesse negligence from intemperancy in meates and drinkes from oppression and deceit and therein provide both for the health of their bodies and the safety of their estates So civill-governours though to them be chiefely committed the bodies and goods of the people as their adaequate obiect yet in order to this they may and ought to procure spirituall helpes to their soules and to prevent such spirituall evills as that the prosperity of Religion amongst them might advance the prosperity of the civill State Reply 3. I cannot but with griefe observe the sinfull guile of the Discusser who whilest he taketh off all charges of soules from the civill Magistrates and layeth it upon Church-Governours he taketh it off from Church-Governours too that so the whole charge of precious soules for whom Christ dyed might utterly fall to the ground For how shall Church-Governours take the charge of soules upon them if there be no Church-Governours And how shall there be Church-Governours where there be no Churches If Churches be all dissipated and rooted out from the face of the Earth by the Apostacy of Antichrist and none to be gathered againe till new Apostles or Evangelists be sent abroad for such a worke then there be now neither Churches nor Church-Governours nor Church-censures either to censure Hereticks or to fetch in those stray soules whom they have scatter'd And then rejoyce yee Hereticks and all yee Idolaters and Seducers and goe on and make havock of the sheep of Christ like ravenous Wolves you may now doe it impunè without feare or danger It is neither for Civill Governours nor Church-Governours to meddle with you Not for Civill Governours for they are not to judge nor punish in matters of Religion Nor for Church-Governours for there are neither Churches nor Church-Governours extant now upon the face of the Earth But woe be to you poore sheepe and Lambes of Christ Jesus you are now indeed truly become the sheep of the slaughter your Possessours may slay you and plead themselves not guilty Zach. 11.4 5. not guilty before the Civill Barre for their crime is exempted from civill cognizance not guilty before the Churches Tribunall for there be no Churches to call them to account CHAP. 35. A Reply to his 35. Chap. Discusser IF it were the Magistrates duty or office to punish Hereticks then is he both a Temporall and Ecclesiasticall Officer Defender It followeth not unlesse the Magistrate were to punish them with Ecclesiasticall censures which he neither doth nor may doe The punishments which he inflicteth on them are meerely Civill whether imprisonment banishment or death Discusser That Doctrine and distinction that a Magistrate may punish an Heretick civilly will not here avayle For what is Babell if this be not confusedly to punish Corporall or Civill offences with spirituall or Church-censures the offender not being a member of it or to punish soule or spirituall offences with Corporall or Temporall weapons proper to Delinquents against the Civill State Defender It is no Babell or Babilonish confusion to punish corporall or civill offences with Spirituall or Church-censures What if a Brother be a striker an oppressour a murderer a fornicator or Adulterer all these are corporall and civill offences But shall not therefore the Church punish these with spirituall and Church-censures Then the Apostle was mistaken who directeth so to doe 1 Cor 5.11 why the Discusser putteth in that parenthesis the offender not being a member of it I cannot tell sure I am it is nothing to the purpose For as the Church cannot punish any offendor unlesse he be a member of the Church so neither may the Civill Magistrate punish an Heretick or other spirituall offendor unlesse he be a member of his Common-wealth And if it be no confusion to punish civill offences with Church-censures it is no confusion to punish spirituall offences with civill censures And the reason of both these is the same there be sundry civill offences which are also transgressions of the Rule of the word and so offences to the Consciences of the Church and so justly subject to Church-censure There be also offences to the Order and peace of the Church which tend likewise to provoke wrath against a Civill State As the King of Persia said Whatsoever is commanded by the God of Heaven for the House of God let it bediligently done for why should there bewrath against the King and his Sonnes Ezra 7.3 If offences to the Church doe provoke wrath against the Civill State it is no
against the poore sheepe and Lambs of Christ If any be hardned by the just and faithfull severity of Magistrates in this case it is meerely accidentall from the extreme perversnesse of the deceitfull and corrupt heart of man not from any corruption found in such dealings of Magistrates Yea Experience speaketh the contrary not onely in the instance of the Donatists who were many of them reclaimed by the just severity of the civill Magistrate in Augustines time But also in our owne memory Let the Discusser speake his conscience whether Popery or Papists did more swarme and abound in Queen Elizabeths dayes then in the dayes of King James Discusser Antonius Pius the Emperour of Rome upon this occasion wrote to all the Governours of his Provinces to forbeare the Persecution of Christians because such dealing was so farre from converting Christians from their way that it rather begat in their mindes an opinion of their Cruelty Defender No marvell for first the Pagan Religion was not of God but palpable and grosse Idolatry But the Religion of Christians came downe from Heaven in the Gospel of Truth It is cruelty in a Magistrate and it will beget in the minds of indifferent men an opinion of his cruelty to murther Innocents and that indictâ cauâ—â when it will never be found guilty nor beget in equall minds an opinion of the cruelty of such as shall put to Death Murderers and obstinate destroyers of the life of Soules Secondly It is evident the persecuting Emperours and their Governours of Provinces under them attended not at all to the conviction of Christians nor did they indeavour to make it appeare that the Christians sinned against the Light of their owne consciences And therefore we marvell if it bred in the people a just opinion of the cruelty of Persecutors and of the Innocency of Christians 3. It is an untrue Intimation of the Discusser that Antonius forebad the persecution of Christians upon any such grounds as if he affected rather their conversion which harsh dealing might alienate them from or as if by reason of hard dealing with them it bred in the Christians an opinion of the cruelty of their Persecutors which he was desirous to avoyd Read both the Rescripts of Antonius Pius both to the men of Asia and to the Senate of Rome and he giveth other just Reasons of forbidding the persecution of them as in respect of their confidence on God in times of danger above Pagans and in respect of his Fathers favourable grant to them and cheifly in that by their Prayers they had saved his Army in great distresse in Germany and destroyed their Enemies But he was so farre from seeking their conversion to his Paganisme by lenity towards them that he straitly chargeth his Officers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not to draw any such to Repentance and bondage Both his Rescripts are extant in the end of Justin Martyrs second Apologie for Christians CHAP. 41. A Reply to his Chap. 41. Discussing the Texts Isay 2.4 with Mica 4.3 Discusser THe next Scripture against Persecution is that of the Prophet Isaiah 2.4 together with Micah 4.3 They shall breake their Swords into Plowshares and their Speares into pruning hookes And Isa 11.9 There shall none hurt or destroy in all the Mountaine of my Holinesse Vnto which Mr. Cotton answereth 1. That these Predictions doe onely shew with what weapons Christ will subdue the Nations to the Faith of the Gospel 2. They shew also what the meeke and peaceable temper will be of all true Converts to Christianity not Lions nor Leopards nor cruell Oppressours nor Malignant opposers and biters one of another but doth not forbid them to drive ravenous wolves from the sheepfold nor to restraine them from devouring the sheep of Christ This first Answer is truely Christian but me thinks the Answerer might heare a voyce from Heaven out of thine owne mouth will I judge thee for that which he addeth is as evill and bitter as the former words were good and sweet But this doth not forbid them to drive ravenous wolves from the sheepfold and to restraine them from devouring the sheep of Christ But this fighteth against the former Truth to wit that Christ by spirituall weapons will subdue the Nations of the Earth to the obedience of the Gospel For by driving away these Wolves he intendeth not onely the Resistance or violence which the Shepheards of Christ ought spiritually to make but the civill Resistance of the materiall Swords staves Guns c. whence I argue that same power forceth the evill the Wolves out forceth the good the sheep in for of the same things is the like and same Reason c. Defender He should say for of contrary things is a contrary Reason for sheep and wolves are not the same things nor are force in and force out the same things But howsoever his Argument is of the like force as if he should reason a man may witha staffe or a Sword drive away dogs that might by the way bite or worrey his children in going to Schoole therefore a man may with astaffe or a Sword drive his children to goe to schoole for there is the same Reason of both But doth he speak in good earnest that there is the same Reason of both Are Wolves to be driven away and sheep brought into the fold by the same Instruments Yes saith he the same arme that with a staffe beateth off the Wolfe with a rod and hooke bringeth in the sheep the same Dogg that assaulteth and teareth a Wolfe frighteth and forceth in the stragling sheep But the Dog that is taught to assault and teare the Wolfe if he assault and teare the sheep also will finde a halter for his labour And though the same Arme may with a staffe beate a Wolfe yet it will not with the same staffe beat a sheep The same Shepheards staffe that knocketh downe a Wolfe on the head hooketh in the sheep gently by the legg The same voyce from Heaven that calleth the sheep by Name into the sheep-fold and leadeth them by still waters the same voyce hath said that Antichristian Wolves and Seducers shall drink of bloud for they are worthy Revel 16.6 CHAP. 42. A Reply to his Chap. 42. Defender IN this Chapter the Discusser maketh himselfe worke to discourse upon the Wolves which Paul foretold to the Elders of Ephesus should come in amongst them not sparing the flock Acts 20.29 A place which I quoted not nor did apply to the cause in hand But he as a full vessell abounding and running over in wit and words and it seemeth in leasure he propoundeth and discusseth three Questions about these Wolves in this Chapter and two more in the next Discusser As 1. What Wolves were those Paul warneth of not literally meant nor Persecutors of the Flock such as the Romane Emperours But such as brought in other Religions and Worships such as amongst themselves should speake perverse things as many Antichrists did And I
doe in vaine goe about from this place to establish their Sacrilegious Tyranny by giving Lawes without the word and beside the word to bind Conscience Therefore Civill Magistrates of whom this whole Discourse is shall exercise a sacrilegious Tyranny over the Conscience and in vaine goe about to establish it from this place when from the word of God they establish true Religion and goe about to punish the Fundamentall subverters of the same But how farre off Calvins Judgement was to restraine Civill Magistrates from medling in matters of Religion let him interpret himselfe in his own words in his opuscula in his Answer to Servetus who was put to Death for his Heresies at Geneva by his procurement Hoe uno saith he contentus sum Christi adventû nec mutatum esse Ordinem Politicum nec de Magistratuum officio quicquam Detractum A gedùm quod Paulus docet Rom. 13.4 Non frustra ah ipsis Gladium gestari an ad speciem unam restringi debet Fatentur isti quibuscum nunc Discepto ad alia crimina plectenda Judices diviniâ—ùs esse amatos moâ—◠â Religione abstineani ut libera ipsis tacentibus Impietas lasciviat verirm reclamat innumeris locis Spiritus Sanctus c. This one thing saith he sufficeth me that by the coming of Christ neither was the State of Civill Government changed nor any thing taken away from the Magistrates Office Goe to then that which Paul teacheth Rom. 13.4 that he beareth not the Sword in vaine ought it to be restrained unto one kind onely they themselves confesse with whom I have to deale the Magistrates are armed of God to punish other crimes so that they abstaine from matter of Religion that so ungodlynesse may runne riot by their connivance But the Holy Ghost crieth out against this in many places c. Discusser Againe Calvin speaking of sulfilling the Law by Love writeth thus on the same place Paul hath not respect vnto the whole Law he speaketh onely of those duties which the Law commandeth us towards our neighbours And after Paul only mentioneth the second Table c. And that he repeateth Love is the fulfilling of the Law understand it as before of that part of the Law which concerneth humane Society for the former Table of the Law which is of the worship of God is not here touched So Beza upon the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 if there be any other Commandement it is summed up in this thou shalt love thy Neighbour as thy selfe the whole Law saith he commandeth nothing but the love of God and our Neighbour but since the Apostle in this place discourseth of the mutuall Duties of men one to another I thinke this Terme Law ought to be restrained to the second Table Defender And so think I too yet without the least prejudice to the cause in hand For if the Question be of the dutyes which Subjects owe to Magistrates they pertaine to the second Table or if the Question be of the vertu eof love one to another That it is the fulfilling of the whole Law It is meant cheifely of the second Table though withall it be true the second Table cannot be fulfilled without fulfilling of the first Table also These things are out of controversie But what is all this to the point in hand The Apostle in calling love the fulfilling of the Law speaketh of the Law of the second Table Ergo the Magistrate who is spoken of in the same chapter hath no power to punish the crimes against the first Table or thus further in the 13. of the Romans the Apostle speaketh of the Duties of Subjects to Magistrates which is a Duty of the second Table therefore Magistrates have no power to punish their Subjects for crimes against the first Table The Discusser might as well argue that the duties of Subjects to Magistrates are duties of the second Table therefore it is not the Dutie of Subjects to pray for their Magistrates which is a Duty of the first Table The Truth is though Prayer be a Duty of the first Table yet to pray for Magistrates is a Duty of the second Table In like sort though Idolatry and Blasphemy and Heresie be sinnes against the first Table yet to punish these with civill penalties is a Duty of the second Table For let it be considered in the feare of God are not all Duties of Righteousnesse to man commanded in the second Table as well as all Duties of Holinesse to God commanded in the first Table If so I demand againe whether it be not a Duty of Righteousnesse belonging to the people of God to enjoy the free passage of Religion Truth of Doctrine Holinesse of worship Purity of Church-Government I demand yet further if it be not an injurious dealing to the people of God to disturb the Truth of Doctrine with Heresie the holinesse of worship with Idolatry the Purity of Government with Tyranny If all these be granted then it unavoydably followeth that all these wayes of unrighteousnesse are justly punishable by the second Table Let not therefore the Discusser please himselfe in deluding himselfe and the world that Beza and Calvine did absolutely denie the 13. of the Romans to concerne any matter of the first Table For though the Duties of Loyalty to Magistrates and of love to all concerne the second Table yet it was neither the word nor Judgement of Calvine or Beza so to interpret Rom. 13. As to exempt Magistrates from Power of punishing Heresie and Idolatry Calvines Interpretation of Rom. 13.4 and his Argument from thence against Servetus is declared above in this chapter Heare now how Beza interpreteth the same Text in his Booke entituled De Haereticis â Magistratu puniendis Testatur Paulus Magistratum esse Dei Ministrum qui Gladium gerat ad eas ulciscendas qui malè agunt Rom. 13.4 Quamobrem alterutrum necesse est si in Haereticos Magistratus jus nullum habet vel ipsos malè non agere quod Refutatione indigere non puto vel quod in genere Paulus ait ad certum maleficiorum genus revocandum eorum videlicet quae corporalia peccata vocant de quo malificiorum discrimine copiosius ut spero posteà suo loco Disseram That is Paul witnesseth saith he that the Magistrate is Gods Minister who beareth the Sword to take vengeance on them that doe evill Rom. 13.4 wherefore one of these two must needs be If Magistrates should have no just power over Hereticks either that Hereticks are not evill doers which is so grosse that I thinke it needs no Refutation or else that Pauls speech is to be restrained to a certaine sort of evill deeds to wit such as they call corporall sinnes of which distinction of evill deeds I shall dispute more largely I hope in his due place hereafter So Beza CHAP. 48. A Reply to his Chap. 48. Discusser THe higher powers in this Rom. 13. were amongst others the Roman Emperours and subordinate Magistrates
under them But they all were strangers from the life of God yea most averse and opposite yea cruell and bloudy Persecutors of the Name and followers of Jesus and yet unto these is subjection commanded Now then I argue If Paul had commanded this subjection to Romane Magistrates in spirituall causes to defend the Truth to punish Hereticks neither of which they could discerne nor judge of but by Trust from others as Pilate condemned Jesus he must in the Judgement of all men have put out the eye of Faith and Reason and sense at once Defender Not in the Judgement of all men for besides Calvin and Beza whose Judgement you have heard all those Interpreters who expound this place in the Romans of the Magistrates power in punishing spirituall evill doers as well as corporall they none of them doe so judge that Paul in commanding the Churches to yeild subjection unto civill Magistrates in matters of Religion did put out the Eye of Faith and Reason and sense at once For first it is one thing to yeild subjection to the unrighteous Decrees of Ignorant and Pagan Magistrates another thing to obey their Ordinances in matters of Faith and worship and Government of the Church The former of these Christians did yeild unto the Romane Magistrates even subjection unto the Death the other they neither did nor ought to yeild as knowing God was to be obeyed rather then men Secondly though it be true whilst the Romane Emperours and Magistrates were Pagans and Persecutors they were incompetent Judges to discerne and give Sentence in the spirituall matters of Christian Religion yet the word of Christ who commandeth a Duty commandeth all the necessary meanes which tend to that Duty And therefore in giving them a Power and charge to execute vengeance on evill doers and that in matters of spirituall unrighteousnesse against the Church as in matters of Civill unrighteousnesse against the Common-wealth It behoved them to enquire and listen after true Religion to heare and trie all and upon serious deliberate and just scruting to hold fast that which is good and so prevent the disturbance thereof by the contrary It was no vaine charge of the Holy Ghost Psal 2 10 11 12. If Christ have an Iron Scepter in his hand to crush all States and Kingdomes Emperours and Princes as well as private persons Be wise now therefore ô yee Kings be instructed yee that are Judges of the Earth serve the Lord with feare rejoyce unto him with trembling Kisse the Sonne least he be angry and yee perish in the way Thirdly the cases of Religion wherein we allow Civill Magistrates to be Judges are so fundamentall and palpable that no Magistrate studious of Religion in the feare of God but if he have any spirituall discerning as all truly Christian Magistrates have and even Pagans have discerned between innocent Christians and turbulent Seducers he cannot but judge of such grosse corruptions as are unsufferable in Religion as hath been opened above Though we reserve to the Prophets and Churches Judicium Propheticum as hath been said above yet we allow Judicium Politicum to Civill Magistrates studious of Truth as all ought to be and the Judgement of Discretion unto all Christians But as for such Magigistrates as are meerely naturall and Pagan though Christians be bound to subject themselves unto them with patience yet such Magistrates ought to forbeare the exercise of their Power either in protecting or punishing matters of Religion till they have learned so much knowledge of the Truth as may enable them to discerne of things that differ But this forbearance of theirs is not for want of Authority in their callings nor for want of Duty in their Consciences but for want of evidence to them in the cause In which Case Magistrates are wont to forbeare their exercise of their Power and to respit Judgement even in Civill causes not for want of Authority or Duty to doe Justice But for want of ripe and full cognizance of the Cause CHAP. 49. A Reply to his Chap. 49. Discusser VVHy then did Paul himselfe appeale to Caesar Acts 25. unlesse that Caesar though he was not yet yet he ought to have been a fit Judge in such matters Answ Paul appealed to Caesar not to judge the cause of his Religion but to defend him from civill violence and slanderous accusations about sedition mutiny civill Disobedience c. From which Caesar as a supreme civill Magistrate ought to defend him Defender This appeale of Paul to Caesar doth evidently hold forth three things 1. That there is a lawfull and needfull use of civill Magistracy unto Christians 2. That Church Officers even of highest ranck the Apostles themselves and other Ministers are subject to civill Authority as well as private Christians 3. That Paul did submit to Caesars Judgement-seate the tryall of his innocency as well in matters of Religion as in civill conversation For he pleadeth his innocency that he was guilty in none of those things whereof they did accuse him and for tryall hereof he appealeth to Caesar ver 11. Now the things whereof they did accuse him were offences against the Law of the Jewes and against the Temple as well as against Caesar ver 8. And offences against the Law of the Jewes and against the Temple were matters of Religion And yet even in these Paul appealeth to Caesars Judgement-seat for tryall of his innocency Discusser But if Paul in this Appeale to Caesar had submitted his Religion which was the cause of Christ his Ministery and Ministration to the Romane Emperours Tribunall he had sinned First against the light of Reason Secondly against the cause of Religion Thirdly against the holy Calling of a Christian Fourthly against his owne calling of Apostleship Fifthly against the holy name of God c. Defender All these sinnes might with some colour have been charged upon Paul if he had appealed to Caesar to Judge whether his Religion or Ministery or Ministration were of God or no. But that was no point of his Appeale But whether his Religion or Ministery or Ministration were guilty of any capitall crime against the Law of the Jewes or against the Temple or against Caesar Now in this case Paul might safely appeale to Caesar and that to the Honour of God of his Apostolick and Christian Calling and to the glory of his Religion The Reasons against Pauls Appeale in this case are but bul-rushes CHAP. 50. A Reply to his Chap. 50. Discusser HAving dispatched two Arguments against the founding of the civill Magistrates power in spirituall causes in Rom. 13. First from the Testimony of Calvin and Beza the second from Caesars incompetency and insufficiency to Judge of spirituall matters I come now to the third Argument taken from the nature of the Magistrates weapons he hath a Sword and that Sword is a civill Sword a Sword of civill Justice which being of a materiall and civill nature serveth for the defence of Persons Estates Families Liberties of
in a way of Hostility notwithstanding any Church-power If ought be unsound in this dealing with Princes I am willing to heare of it Discusser Another while when Princes crosse Mr. Cottons Judgement and Practise then it matters not what the Profession and Practise of Princes is for saith he their Profession and Practise is no Rule to Conscience Defender If Princes swerve from the rule of the word either in profession or practise their owne profession or practise is no rule either to themselves or others Princes ought not to rule the word but are to be ruled by it But see the notorious calumny of the Discusser so representing Mr Cottons dealing with Princes as if he made his owne judgement and practise the rule of the proceeding of Princes Men whose tongues are their owne may speake any thing But yet such as feare the Lord would tremble at such speeches as neither expresse Truth nor Love Discusser I aske then unto what Princes or Magistrates will themselves or any so perswaded submit to as unto keepers of both Tables and nursing Fathers and Mothers to the Church First will it not evidently follow by these Tenents That they ought not to submit to any Magistrates in the world in these cases but to Magistrates just of their owne Conscience Defender We subject our selves to all sorts of Magistrates of the Countries where we live or whether we come whether Christian or Pagan Orthodox or erroneous just of our Consciences or unjust against them Subject our selves I say either in active submission and obedience when they command according to God or in passive submission of our bodyes and goods lives and liberties when they command against God Since the Discusser concludeth it will evidently follow that wee will submit to no Magistrates but just of our owne Consciences let him make that evident which he saith is evident or else let him say he is evidently mistaken né quid dicam gravius Discusser Secondly will it not also follow that all other Consciences in the world except their owne must be persecuted by such their Maistrates Defender This will no wayes follow unlesse all mens Consciences in the world did erre Fundamentally and obstinately after just conviction against the very Principles of Christian Religion or at least unlesse they maintained and held forth other errors though not Fundamentally subverting Religion yet Fundamentally subverting Church-Order and civill order and that in a turbulent and Factious manner For in these cases only we follow Magistrates to punish in matters of Religion Discusser And Lastly Is not this to make Magistrates but stepps and stirrops for themselves to ascend and mounte into their rich and honorable Seats and Saddels I meane great and setled maintenances which neither the Lord Jesus nor any of his first Messengers the true Patterns did ever know Defender How this power ascribed to Magistrates not by me but by the body almost of all Faithfull Ministers yea by the Prophets and Apostles themselves should make Magistrates staires and stirrops for our selves to mount up so high let him that can discerne it make it appeare To allow them power over our selves in case of Hereticall Delinquency is not to make them staires or stirrops of our advancement but Swords and staves if need be for our punishment Besides I wonder what fancy came into the Discussers minde to dreame of rich and honorable Seates and Saddels of our Magistrates When as he need not beignorant how farre short they themselves fall of rich and honorable Seates and Saddels which himselfe interpreteth great and settled maintenances Lastly I suppose he is not ignorant that my selfe against whom he is pleased by Name to write this invective liveth not upon great and settled maintenance but according to that which he calleth the true patterne of the first Messengers of the Lord Jesus CHAP. 57. A Reply to his Chap. 60. Discusser IN the second place the Answerer saith that Princes out of State-Policy doe sometime Tolerate what suiteth not with Christianity and out of State-necessity Tolerate as David did Joab against their wills But then the Answerer must acknowledge with me That there is a necessity sometime of State-Toleration as in the case of Joab And so his former affirmation generally lay'd downe viz That it is evill to Tolerate seducing Teachers and Scandalous Lives Was not duely weighed in the ballance of the Sanctuary and is too light Defender I easily acknowledge sometime a necessity of State Toleration As I have formerly expressed in Chap. 53. especially in two cases whereof that of Joab is one But that will nothing impeach the Truth of my former affirmation delivered in generall termes especially if it be weighed in the Ballance of the Sanctuary For the holy writings of the Sanctuary doe expresly deliver the like position in like generall termes As Moses saith who so sheddeth mans bloud by man shall his bloud be shed This Law is delivered in generall termes and yet though Joab was a murderer he was tolerated to live all the Reigne of David yet I hope the Discusser wil not say that generall Law of Moses was not duely weighed in the Ballance of the Sanctuary and is too light Discusser I affirme Secondly That that State-Policy and State-necessity which permitteth Consciences of men will be found to agree most punctually with the Rules of the best Politition that ever the world saw the Lord Jesus himselfe who commanded the permitting of the Tares to wit Antichristians or false Christians with true Christians as I have discoursed above Defender That discourse hath bin examined above and found too light so farre as it crosseth the Truth returned in Answer to the Letter To permit some Antichristians or false Christians The Answer to the Letter did allow unlesse they maintained Fundamentall Heresies against the Foundation of Religion and that obstinately after conviction and did withall seduce others into the same Apostacy But as for such Hereticks and seducing Teachers I hope it hath been cleared they are none of those Tares of which Christ saith Let them alone Besides it is an Interpretation of Christs words formerly given and not to be reversed That if by Tares were meant such grosse offendors then the speech of Christ Let them alone is not a word of command in way of an Ordinance but a word of Permission and prediction what will be in way of Providence Like that in Luk. 22.36 He that hath no sword let him sell his Garment and buy a sword It is not a word of command or direction what the Disciples should doe But a word of prediction what times of tryall they should meet withall CHAP. 58. A Reply to his Chap. 61. Discusser His Third Answer is this FOr those three Princes named by you who Tolerated false Religion wee can name more and greater who have not Tolerated Hereticks and Schismaticks notwithstanding their pretence of Conscience and Arrogating the crowne of Martyrdome to their sufferings Constantine the great at the
Religion may not be propagated by the civill Sword Vnto which I Reply what meaneth then this passage in his first Answer to the former speeches of the Kings viz. We acknowledge that none is to be constrained to believe or professe the true Religion till he be convinced in Judgement of the Truth of it Defender If it be observed my Agreement with Hilary then let it be observed that the Discusser in whetting the words of the Authors of the Letter against us layeth a false charge upon us as if we maintained such persecution for cause of Conscience as is condemned by the Ancient Writers Of whom Hilary is named for one and for the first and yet in the Discussion it is found that we agree with him In that Answer to the speeches of the Kings when I acknowledged that none was to be constrained to beleive or professe the true Religion till he be convinced of the Truth of it I did not meane that after he was convinced he might then be constrained with civill censfures for neither beleiving nor professing to beleive is to be constrained with civill censures But yet thus farre he may be constrained by withholding such countenance and favour from him such encouragement and employment from him as a wise and discerning Prince would otherwise grant to such as beleive the Truth and professe it so far as they are convinced of it in Judgement and Conscience For such as will not walke according to their Light are neither trusty servants to God nor man Discusser That Answer to the speech of the Kings implyeth two things 1. That the civill Magistrate who is to constraine must judge of all the Consciences of their Subjects whether they be convinced or no. 2. That when the civill Magistrate discerneth that his Subjects Consciences are convinced then he may constraine them vi armis hostilely And accordingly who knoweth not what constraint lyeth upon all Consciences in Old and New-England to come to Church and to pay Church-Duties which is upon the point though with a Sword of a finer gilt and trim in New-England nothing else but that which he confesseth Hilary saith should not be done to wit a Propagation of Religion by the Sword Defender Neither of both these things are implyed in that Answer Not the first that the civill Magistrate must then Judge of all of the Consciences of their Subjects whether they be convinced or no For it implyeth no more then that he is not to constraine them till he see they be convinced If he never see them convinced he is to see they be never constrained But how far the Magistrate may discerne and judge in matters of Religion hath been spoken above Nor the second For the constraint I spake of was not by positive meanes vi Armis but negative withholding such trust and employment from such as he seeth are not faithfull and trusty to their God of whose Truth they are convinced and yet withhold it in unrighteousnesse I know no constraint at all that lieth upon the consciences of any in New-England to come to Church neither doe I know that any scruple lyeth upon any Conscience in New-England that withholdeth any from hearing the word amongst us But least of all doe I know that any are constrayned to pay Church-duties in New-EnglaÌ„d Sure I am none in our own Town neither Church-members nor other are constrained to pay any Church-duties at all What they pay they give voluntarily each one with his owne hand without any constraint at all but their owne will as the Lord directs them Discusser Againe although he confesseth that Propagation of Religion ought not to be by the Sword yet he maintaineth the use of the Sword when persons in the Judgment of the Civill State for that is implyed shall blaspheme the true God and the true Religion and also seduce others to damnable Heresie and Idolatry Defender True but this is not the Propagation of Religion but the preservation of it or if it doe conduce to Propagation it is onely removendo probibens CHAP. 67. A Reply to his Chap. 70. Discussing the Testimony of Tertullian Discusser TO Tertullian the Answerer giveth the like Answer Tertullians Intent saith he is onely to restraine Scapula the Romane Governour of Africa from persecuting the Christians for not offering Sacrifice to their Heathen Gods and for that end fetcheth an Argument from the Law of Naturall Equity not to compell any to any Religion but to permit them to beleive or not to beleive at all Which we acknowledge we judge the English may permit the Indians to continue in their unbeliefe Neverthelesse it will not therefore be lawfull to tolerate the publick worship of Devils or Idols in a Christian State or the seduction of any from the Truth In this passage he agreeth with Tertullian but it is well known that in New-England they not onely permit the Indians to continue in their unbeleife which they cannot help but they also permit or tolerate them in their Paganish worship which cannot be denyed to be a worshipping of Devils And therefore consequently according to the same practise did they walke by Rule and impartially not onâ—â— the Indians but their Countrymen French Dutch Spanish Per … Turkes Jewes should also be permitted in their Worships if correspondent in civill obedience Defender It is not true that the New-English doe tolerate the Indians who have submitted to the English protection and Government in their worship of Devils openly What the Indians doe that are not under the English Government the English have no warrant from God or Law of Nations to restraine them nor is it in the power of the English to restraine the private Worship which some of the Indians under the English Government may possibly adhere unto the this day What courses have been used to bring them on to Civility and to the knowledge of our Religion by faire meanes are not pertinent to the present controversie to relate It hath been an Article of the Covenant between such Indians as have submitted to our Government that they shall submit to the ten Commandements which they thought reasonable Some of their Sachims young children are brought up with us and trained up to knowledge Such of them as come to our Houses are fed with curtesie and care taken often to instruct them as farre yea further then they are greatly willing to heare Some of them of late frequent our markets to get mony by selling Fish Baskets whortleberries Cramberries which taketh them off from some idlenesse Some English are studious of the Indian Language to deale with them in their owne Tongue Of late some of our Ministers have preached to a Congregation of them whil'st others at first interpreted what was preached but since one of our Ministers preacheth to them in their owne Language The other day whil'st I was at the Colledge with other Elders an Indian from Plimmouth side an hopefull youth was received into some employment in
according to their Conscience and beleife and constraine them to such worships which their own soules tell them they have no satifaction nor faith in 1. It is an untruth that either we restraine men from worship according to Conscience or constraine them to worship against Conscience or that such is my Tenent and practise 2. Though it were true that wee did both yet this did not make Lawes to binde Conscience but the outward man onely nor would we thinke it meet to binde the ontward man against Conscience Discusser Againe where as the Answerer affirmeth That men may make Lawes to see the Lawes of God observed I Answer As God needs not the help of a materiall Sword of Steele to assist the Sword of the Spirit in the affairs of Conscience so those men those Magistrates yea the Common-wealth which makes such Magistrates must needs have power and Authority from Christ Iesus to sit Iudge and to determine in all the great Controversies concerning Doctrine Worship Government c. Defender God needeth not the help of a materiall Sword of Steele to assist the Sword of his Spirit of righteousnesse in the dutyes of the second Table no more then to assist the Sword of the Spirit of holynesse in the dutyes of the first Table The Law of Righteousnesse is as fully and plainly written by the Spirit of God in the hearts and Consciences of men as is the Law of holynesse yea and more too And yet the Discusser doth not for ought I know make it a needlesse matter for God to accept the helpe of the materiall Sword to assist the Spirit of Righteousnesse in the affaires of Conscience which pertaine to the second Table The truth is God needeth not the Arme of flesh to help him that is he needeth not any help which the wisdome or strength of the creature can invent or bring forth which himselfe appointed not But yet God thinkes it no dishonour to himselfe to make use of his owne Ordinances in their owne bounds to his owne ends Nor doeth he then need them when he useth them but wee need such helps for the performance of our duty both to God and man Which made it a cursed sin in Meroz not to come out to help the Lord Iudge 5 23. Nor will it hence follow that such Magistrates as are chosen to help forward the work of God in matters of Religion that either themselves or the Common-wealth that chooseth them must needs have power and Authority from Christ to sit Iudge and to determine in all great controversies of Religion in Doctrine Discipline and Government It is enough that they are called of God to be wise and learned in the service of Christ and in the wayes of his Kingdome Psal 2.10 11 12. which if they have learned they ought to rule with him and for him or else how shall it be fulfilled which is written of them The Kingdomes of the world are become the Kingdomes of the Lord and of his Christ and he shall reigne for ever Rev. 7.15 Yea in this case it is learning enough if they know the Principles and Foundations of Religion and can discerne the Arrogancy of a tumultuous spirit after conviction For such want not judgement to censure Apostacy to Heresie in doctrine to Idolatry in worship to Tyranny in Government Discusser But then I aske whether upon this ground it must not evidently follow that then either there is no Common-wealth nor Civill State of men in the world that is not qualified with this discerning and then the Common-wealth hath more light concerning the Church then the Church it selfe Or that the Common-wealth and Magistrates thereof must judge and punish as they are perswaded in their owne beleife and Conscience be their Conscience Paganish Turkish or Antichristian And what is this but to confound Heaven and Earth together and to take away not onely the being of Christianity out of the world but all civility yea the world out of the world and to lay all upon heaps of confusion Defender See what strange effects a strong fancy can produce would you not think it must be some strange and strong paradox that if it be graunted shall produce such strange and strong effects as to take away the being of Christianity out of the world yea and all civility yea and the world out of the world But when men have slept a while and strong fancyes are evaporated the world will stand where it is and civility stand in the world and Christianity in civility I say therefore that which no sober minde can contradict that though Magistrates be bound to become wise and learned to know Christ and to establish the Religion of Christ yet it will not as the Discusser saith evidently follow no nor follow at all That then there is no law full Commonwealth nor Civill State of men in the world which is not qualified with this spirituall discerning For though it be the duty of Civill States thus to be qualified yet their want of such qualifications doth not make them unlawfull States Many due qualifications are required in Husbands Wives Children Servants Magistrates Churches the want of which maketh them defective and sinfull but doth not make them unlawfull This will need no proofe to any sober minde Muchlesse will it follow upon the former Premises that the very Common-wealth hath then more light concerning the Church of Christ then the Church it selfe For it is a weake Church that knowes no more light then Principles And what light the Common-wealth hath it may have received from the Church Howsoever the Magistrates power to establish the Religion of Christ doth no way inferre That he that establisheth that Religion which is professed in the Church hath more light concerning that Religion or any part of it then the Church it selfe Albeit it is not impossible nor is it absurd that sometime the Magistrate may have more light in matters of Religion then the Church it selfe David for ought wee read was the first that discerned the disorder in Carting the Arke of God 1 Chron. 15.2 And Hezekiah was the first that prevented the Preists and Levits and the whole Church in the worke of Reformation from the Apostacy of Ahaz 2 Chron. 29.4 to 11. But there is no colour of consequence that because Magistrates are bound to discerne and know the will of Christ and to serve him with their power That therefore such as have no discerning of Christ nor of his holy will That they should punish and destroy Christ and Christians and seeke only to advance their owne Religion which is but Idolatry and Superstition CHAP. 70. A Reply to his Chap. 73. Discussing the Testimony of Luther Discusser LUthers Testimony saith the Answerer reacheth to two things neither of which we deny First that the Government of the civill Magistrate reacheth no further then to the bodies and goods of their Subjects not over their soules and therefore they may not undertake to give Lawes
this Argument the Discusser bestirreth himselfe to draw up sixe Answers 1. From the large extent of soule-killing which may reach to many sinnes that are not capitall 1 Cor. 8.11 2. From the dissimilitude of bodily and spirituall Death A body being killed can dye but once but a soule killed may recover 3. From the different punishment which Christ hath provided for soule-killers to wit the two edged Sword which cometh out of his mouth which is able to cut downe Heresie and to kill the soules of Hereticks everlastingly 4. From the toleration which Christ himselfe giveth to such soule-killers or soule-wounders in the Parable of Tares Matth. 13. 5. From the impossibility of killing any soule by any Heretick not the soules of naturall men for they are dead already nor can false Teachers so much prevent the meanes of spirituall Life as doth the force of a materiall Sword either imprisoning the soules of men in a nationall-state-Nationall-State-Religion or cutting them off immediately without any longer meanes of Repentance Nor can there be a killing of the soules of men alive in Christ partly by reason of the sufficiency and power of Spirituall Ordinances to preserve that Life in them against all Enemies Partly from the Immortality of the spirituall Life in Christ which can no more dye then Christ himselfe who is alive for ever 6. From the possbility of a false Teachers and a Wolves recovery from the Estate of a soule-killer to become a soule-saver as it was in the case of Paul For a just Reply to all these let me first premise foure things and then speake to the Arguments in Order 1. It is not every murther of the body that is a capitall crime but murder executed in some grosse Attempt For he that hateth his brother is a man-slayer or murderer 1 Joh. 3.15 and yet not for that to be put to death 2. Murder unadvisedly committed when the Act done was not intended is not a capitall crime there were Cities of Refuge provided in such a case Ezod 21.13 3. The very Attempt of murder in the abuse of an Ordinance of God is a capitall crime As in a case a man shall rise up before a Court of Justice to beare false witnesse against his Neighbour of some capitall offence this very attempt of killing his Neighbour by the abuse of publick Justice is a capitall crime Deut. 19.18 to 21. 4. The murther of the soule is not the onely Formalis Ratio as they call it the onely proper cause of an Hereticks capitall Crime but chiefly his bitter roote of Apostacie from God not onely falling off himselfe from God but seducing others to fall away from him These foure things being premised come wee now to consider of the severall Answers given by the Discusser to Augustines Argument His first Answer reacheth not the point for as every killing of the body is not a capitall crime so neither is every killing of the soule but such as is more voluntary and presumptuous and joyned with some grosse and murderous attempt His second Answer falleth short in this respect that though a soule wounded and killed may recover againe yet the very murderous Attempt of killing a soule in abusing an Ordinance of God in corrupting Religion is a capitall crime whether the soule dye of that wound or no or if it dye whether it be recovered or no. Thine eye shall not spare him because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God Deut 13.10 Though hee did not thrust thee away yet because he sought to doe it hee shall dye His third Answer hath been removed above Church-censures are sufficient to heale the Heretick if he belong to God and to remove the guilt of his wickednesse from the Church but not sufficient to prevent his further spreading of the Leaven of his corruption nor sufficient to cleanse the Common-wealth from the guilt of such Rebellion as hath been taught by him against the Lord. His fourth Answer taken from Christs toleration of the Tares hath be en largely and as I conceive fully refelled above His fifth Answer hath also been cleared already If the Answer were good it would evacuate not onely Augustines Argument but Pauls also 1 Cor 8.11 Paul disswadeth from eating things sacrificed to Idols in Idols Temples The Argument to disswade it is from the offence thereby given to the Conscience of the weake and that backed and strengthned from the haynousnesse of the sinne of offence to Conscience It is the murder or perishing of a weake Brothers soule Now if this Answer of the Discusser might stand it would make the Argument of the Apostle of none effect For either this weake Brother is a naturall man dead in sinne already and then no man can kill him or else he is in Christ and then his Life is immortall and Christ hath provided Ordinances powerfully sufficient to prevent or heale such deadly Dangers It is an high presumptuous tempting of God and wanton treading under foote the precious soules of men for whom Christ dyed to wound and as much as in us lyeth to kill the soules of men upon pretence the Lord can save them and raise them againe by his all-sufficient Grace It is a putting of feare where none is that the punishment of obstinate seducing Hereticks with the materiall Sword is the imprisoning of the soules of men to a Nationall Religion for if the Religion of the Nation be good it is no Imprisonment if naught there should be no punishment And it is a like causlesse Feare that the cutting off of Hereticks will cut off men immediately without any longer meanes of Repentance for if they belong to God God will give them Repentance before they goe hence but whether they belong to God or no the revealed will of God is fulfilled in their just Execution The last Answer falleth as short of strength as any of the former For if men be such Wolves and Blasphemers as Paul was before his Conversion neither the Law of God or man would put such an one to Death who sinned of ignorance and walked as himselfe professeth with all good Conscience even in his former evill times Acts 23.1 But as for such as Apostate from the known Truth of Religion and seeke to subvert the Foundation of it and to draw away others from it to plead for their Toleration in hope of their Conversion is as much as to proclaime a generall pardon for all malefactors save such onely as sinne against the Holy Ghost for he that is a wilfull murderer and Adulterer now may come to be converted and dye a martyr hereafter CHAP. 73. A Reply to his Chap. 76. discussing the Testimony of Optatus Discusser THe Answerer alledgeth from Optatus his third Booke that he justified Macarius who had put some Hereticks to death for that he had done no more herein then what Moses Phincas and Elias had done before him But these are shafts usually drawen from the Quiver of the
fall to the Lawes and Governments of the Countries where they inhabite And therefore all the dangerous consequences which the Discusser gathereth from my speech but indeed not my speech but his owne as if I should drive the world out of the world or turne the world upside downe or leave it to men that have not Gods feare to judge who feare God and who not and the rest that follow they are all of them consequences without an Anticedent or an Anticedent without exsistence in any speech of mine but onely in his owne imagination Neither hath it any better ground that passionate exclamation of his with which he endeth this Chapter Heare saith he O Heavens and give eare O Earth yea let the Heavens be astonished and the Earth tremble at such an Answer What Answer thinke you might this be that might provoke not the Discusser onely but the Heavens and earth to such attention admiration trembling astonishment The Answer forsooth is that which he calleth a wonderfull Answer which the Ministers of New-England gave to the third Question sent to them by some Ministers of Old-England to wit that although they confessed them to be such persons whom they approved of farre above themselves yea who were in their hearts to live and die together yet if they or other godly people with them comming over to them should differ in Church-Constitution they then could not approve their civill Cohabitation with them and consequently could not advise their Magistrates to suffer them to injoy a civill being within their jurisdiction Now sure if there were any such Answer to be found in that Booke sounding to such a purpose I my selfe should joyne with him in the like exclamation and wonderment But when I came to search for that speech and neither finde it in the Answer which he quoteth to the third Question nor in that which I rather thinke he meant the 31. I cannot but admire and adore the righteous Judgement of God who having left the Discusser in this Booke and some other to write against the Truth in point of Doctrine hath herein left him to breake forth in his owne hand-writing into notorious impudent falshood in matter of fact which any man that readeth that Booke cannot but discerne in this Allegation The Answer is too large for me to transcribe but who so will may reade it and when he compareth the Answer in that Booke with the Answer in this he may well wonder with what heart and forhead the Discusser could so expresse it CHAP. 76. A Reply to his 79. Chap. Discusser Yea but say they they doubt not if those Ministers of Old-England should come over to them and were here with them they should agree For say they either you will come to us or shew us light to come to you for wee are but weake men and dreame not of perfection in this life Alas who knoweth not what lamentable differences have been betweene the same Ministers of the Church of England c. Let none now thinke that the passage to New-England by Sea or the nature of the Countrie can doe what onely the Key of David can doe to wit open and shut the Consciences of men Defender I did not thinke that any man in Old-England or New had been so ignorant or uncharitable as to think the Pen-man of the Answer to these Questions had conceived that either the voyage by Sea or the change of the aire from Old England to New could change the judgements or Consciences of men Nature could tell Coelum non animum mutant qui trans mare Currunt But yet no Christian man is ignorant that mutual conference between Godly ingenuous and selfe-denying Christians is a notable meanes sanctified of God for the instruction edification one of another till wee all come to be of one minde in the Lord. Else how shall therebe mutuall convictions without mutuall conferences It is the Key of David onely that can open and shut the Consciences of men but that Key ordinarily doth it in the dispensation of Ordinances whereof Conference is one Discusser Besides how can this be a faithfull and upright acknowledgement of their weaknesse and imperfection when they Preach Print and practise such violence to the soules and bodyes of others And by their Rules and grounds ought to proceed to the killing of those whom they judge so deare unto them and in respect of godlynesse farre above themselves Defender This violence to the souls bodyes of men is often charged upon us by the Discusser But he hath not yet given us an instance of any one soule or body which hath undergone this violence from us Si Accusasse fufficiat quis innocens exit It is no new practise to be an Accuser of the Brethren neither is their any slaunder so false or scurrilous but findeth ready yea and greedy intertainment even of many professors especially such whose best Religion lyeth in the observing and censuring the wayes of others How welcome to such are evill reports of them that dare not allow themselves in any knowne evill This acknowledgement of our weaknesse and imperfection would then truly appeare to be neither faithfull nor upright if wee Preached or practised violence against such in comparison of whom we acknowledge our own weaknesse and imperfection Meane while we may well stand and wonder what rules and Grounds of ours those be by which wee ought to proceed even to the killing of those whom wee judge so deare unto us and in respect of Godlynesse far above us Are any of them whom wee so respect such as subvert the Foundation of the Christian Faith and persist therein obstinately after conviction are any of them presumptuous Blasphemers of the great Name of God Or Idolaters themselves and Seducers of others to Idolatry CHAP. 77. A Reply to his Chap. 80. Discusser VVHat though they say the Godly will not persist in Heresie or turbulent Schisme when they are convinced thereof in Conscience If the civill Court and Magistrates must judge and those civill Courts are as lawfull consisting of naturall men as of Godly persons then what consequences will follow I have before mentioned Defender Mentioned indeed but not proved I hope by the helpe of Christ the inconsequence of them hath been cleared Discusser And I adde according to this Conclusion it must follow that if the most godly persons yeeld not to once or twice Admonition as is mainteyned by the Answerer they must necessarily be esteemed obstinate persons for if they were godly they would yeeld Defender Here againe the Discusser misreporteth my words For I did not say that if persons be godly they would yeeld to once or twice Admonition and if they did not yeeld to once or twice Admonition they must necessarily be esteemed obstinate persons But my words were The godly will not persist in Heresie or turbulent Schisme when they are convinced in Conscience of the sinfulnesse thereof Here is then a three-fold wresting of my
it a folly to make boasts in comparisons even of sufferings And therefore I choose to be sparing and briefe in this Argument wherein otherwise I could be copious there being another Volume of the Booke of Martyrs as I heare extant in the Countrey though not in print of the sufferings of the godly Ministers and people beginning where Mr. Fox left When he saith Their witnesses against Bishops and Ceremonies whom he calleth Puritans have seldome met in separate Assemblies from the common It seemeth he never read the story of the Classes in Northamptonshire Suffolk Essex London Cambridge discovered by a false brother to Doctor Bancroft Chaplain then to Lord Chancellor Hatton afterwards Bishop of London and after that Archbishop of Canterbury nor that he ever tooke notice of Doctor Bancrofts Booke against them entituled Dangerous Positions and practises against Religion and State neither doth it seeme that he doth acknowledge their frequent and continuall meetings to duties of humiliation as any separate meetings from the common But I doubt not the Lord tooke notice of both and hath now rewarded their sighes and groanes prayers and teares in private with an open recompence and deliverance in the view of all men Besides though he pleased to confine the witnesse of these he calleth Puritans unto Testimony against Bishops and Ceremonies yet I did not thinke he had been such a stranger in Israel if by his leave I may call it Israel as to be ignorant how farre both the Admonitions to the Parliament have reached to beare witnesse beyond Bishops and Ceremonies To say nothing of Mr. Deerings Sermon before the Queene or Mr. Chadertons at Pauls Crosse or Mr. Parkers Ecclesiastica Politica or Mr. Baines his Diocesans Tryall Though he say None of them suffered unto death onely Mr. Vdall was neere it Yet the truth is he dyed by the annoyance of the Prison which he might as well have acknowledged as he doth of some of the Separatists in this very Paragraph that they were choaked in Prison This I have understood by faithfull witnesses that when the Coroners Jury according to the Law of England came as the manner is in such cases to survey the dead body of Mr. Vdall in Prison he bled freshly though cold before as a testimony against the murderous illegall proceedings of the State against him for so the godly did apprehend it judicious Perkins acknowledgeth such a kinde of bleeding to be a part of the accomplishment of that Scripture in Heb. 11. That the bloud of Abel still speaketh In like sort for the same cause choaked in the prison suffered Mr. Randall Bates an heavenly Saint nor could he be released though Doctor Hering a learned and beloved Physician earnestly solicited Bishop Neale for his enlargement as he tendred his life but the suite of the Physician was repulsed with reproaches And the life of his patient spilt by that rigor He is therefore much mistaken when he saith None of them suffered unto death And it is alike mistake when he maketh Mr. Penry one of his witnesses unto the death for Separation I have received it from Mr. Hildersom a man of a thousand that Mr. Penry did ingenuously acknowledge before his death That though he had not deserved death for any dishonour put upon the Queene by that Booke which was found in his study and intended by himselfe to be presented to her own hand nor by the compiling of Martin Marprelate of both which he was falsly charged yet he confessed he deserved death at the Queenes hand for that he had seduced many of her loyall Subjects to a separation from hearing the Word of life in the Parish Churches Which though himselfe had learned to discerne the evill thereof yet he could never prevaile to recover divers of her Subjects whom he had seduced and therefore the bloud of their soules was now justly required at his hands Let the Examiner consider whether he will own this Mr. Penry for one of his faithfull witnesses hereafter If he doe let him endeavour to doe as he did seeke to reduce those soules whom he hath seduced from hearing the word of life or else let him confesse as Mr. Penry did the bloud of those soules may justly be required at his hands if Mr. Penries witnesse be of waight with him Touching his other witnesse to the death of Mr. Barrow this I can say from the testimony of holy and blessed Mr. Dod who speaking of this Mr. Barrow God is not wont saith he to make choice of men infamous for grosse vices before their calling to make them any notable instruments of Reformation after their Calling Mr. Barrow whilest he lived in Court was wont to be a great Gamster and Dicer and often getting much by play would boast Vivo de die in spem noctis nothing ashamed to boast of his hopes of his nights lodgings in the bosomes of his Courtizens As his spirit was high and rough before his reformation so was it after even to his death When he stood under the Gibbet he lift up his eyes and Lord saith he if I be deceived thou hast deceived me And so being stopt by the hand of God he was not able to proceed to speake any thing to purpose more either to the glory of God or to the edification of the people Mr. Greenwood the Examiners last witnesse unto death he indeed of all the rest was the more to be lamented as being of a more tender and conscientious spirit but this have I heard reported of him by the same credible hands That if he could have been sundred from Mr. Barrow he was tractable to have been gained to the truth But when the Examiner goeth on to make comparisons between the Sufferings of the Separatists and of those he styleth Puritans in his Margent and in his Booke No comparison will hold from the Separatists to them but a Minori What compulsory banishments have been put upon those blessed and glorious lights Mr. Cartwright Parker Ames To say nothing of those in Scotland or New-England When have the Prisons been vacant of some or other godly Ministers and Professors When will the Examiner shew forth alike company of his witnesses to those 300. Ministers whom Mr. Parker compareth to the 300. Souldiers of Gideon who in one storme of persecution were some suspended some excommunicated some imprisoned all of them deprived of their Ministery and of their maintenance And provision made that none might practise Phyficke or teach Schoole unlesse they would accept a Licence with subscription So that of necessicie had not the Lord been wiser and stronger then men they must in remedilesse misery they and theirs have either begged or starved But that with the Lord there be bowells of mercy and fatherly compassions and with him are plenteous redemptions and provisions and protections when men faile The Examiner proceedeth in his Answer to tell us further That he beleeveth there hath hardly ever been a Conscientious Separatist who was
yeild obedience to such Doctrines and worships as are by men Invented and Appointed As the three famous Jewes were cast into the fiery Furnace in a non-conformity to the whole conforming world before the Golden Image Dan. 3.21 c. Defender Thus a man may find a knot in a Bulrush yea thus a man that were disposed might find fault with the Comforts of God for not being full and Compleate with the Affirmative Comforts because they doe not expresse the Negative and with the Negative because they doe not expresse the Affirmative He that maketh it persecution for cause of Conscience when a man is punished for professing such Doctrine which he beleiveth in Conscience to be the truth he maketh it a Pari Persecution for cause of Conscience when a man is punished for Renouncing such Doctrines which he beleiveth in Conscience to be Erroneous And he that maketh it Persecution for cause of Conscience when a man is punished for practising such a worke which he beleives in conscience to be a Religious duty He maketh it no lesse Persecution for cause of Conscience when a man is punished for not practising such a worke which he beleiveth in Conscience to be a sin CHAP. 4. A Reply to his fourth Chapter touching the distinction of Doctrines Some fundamentall others circumstantiall and lesse Principall IN points of Doctrine I said in my Answer to the Prisoners Letter some are Fundamentall without right beleife whereof a man cannot be saved others are circumstantiall and lesse Principall wherein one man may differ from another in judgement without prejudice of salvation on either part Discusser To this distinction He saith Truth dare not subscribe for then thousands ten thousands should everlastingly be condemned yea the whole Generation of the Righteous who since the falling away have and doe erre fundamently concerning the true matter Constitution Gathering Governing of the Church And yet farre be it from any pious Breast to Imagine that they are not saved c. Defender Fundamentall Doctrines are of two sorts Some hold forth the foundation of Christian Religion as the Doctrines of salvation by Christ and of faith in his Name Repentance from dead workes Resurrection from the dead and the like Others concerne the Foundation of the Church as the matter and forme of it and the proper Adjuncts accompaning the same The Apostle speaketh of both these sorts of Foundations together Heb. 6.1.2 I speake of the former sort of these onely namely the Foundation or fundamentall points of Christian Religion which who so subverteth and Renounceth he renounceth also his owne salvation The other sort I looke at as lesse principall in comparison of these though some of them have a fundamentall vse in Church order It was pertinent to the Question propounded in the Prisoners Letter to expresse how farre I allowed Toleration even in such fundamentall Errors as subverted the Foundation of Christian Religion And in other Errors lesse dangerous such as neither subverted Religion nor Salvation It would easily be conceived that Toleration might more easily be allowed How farre New English Churches partake with the Old English Parish Churches in any of the Ordinances of God and upon what ground hath been declared in the Reply to the Answer of the other Letter Where also it hath been cleared how farre off the Churches here have been from persecuting or oppressing any of their Brethren for presenting light to them about this point which may prevent and still the lamentation of peace in the beginning of this fith Chapter CHAP. 5. A Reply to his fifth Chapter Concerning a distinction of Points of Practise IN Answer to the Prisoners Letter I said in points of Practise some concerne the weightier Duties of the Law as what God we worship and with what kinde of Worship whether it be such as if it be right Fellowship with God is held If false Fellowship with God is lost Discusser It is worth the Inquiry what kinde of worship he intendeth whether in generall acceptation the Rightnesse or Corruptnesse of the Church or the Ministery of the Church or the Ministrations of the Word Prayer Seales c. And because it pleaseth the Spirit of God to make the Ministery one of the foundations of Christian Religion Heb. 6.1.2 and also to make the Ministery of the Word and Prayer in the Church to be two speciall workes even of the Apostles themselves Acts 6.2 I shall desire it may well be considered in the feare of God 1. Concerning the Ministery of the Word If their new Ministery and ordination be true then the former was false And if false then will it not follow according to this distinction that fellowship with God was lost 2. Concerning Prayer the New English Ministers have disclaimed and written against that Worship of God by Common or set formes of Prayer which yet themselves practised in England And though they were faithfully admonished for vseing the Common Prayer yet at that time they satisfied their hearts with the practise of the Author of the Councell of Trent c. But now I aske whether or no fellowship with God in such Prayers was lost c. 3. Gods People may live and die in such kinde of worship notwithstanding light presented to them able to convince yet not reaching to a conviction and to forsakeing of such wayes which is Contrary to his Conclusion That Fundamentalls are so cleare that a man cannot but be convinced in Conscience after once or twice Admonition And therefore such a person not being convinced he is condemned of himselfe and may be persecuted for sinning against his Conscience 4. I Observe here that Mr. Cotton herein measureth to others that which himselfe when he lived in such practises would not have had measured to himselfe As 1. That it might have been affirmed of him that in such practises he did sin against his Conscience having sufficient light shinning about him 2. That he should or might have been cut off by death or Banishment as an Hereticke sinning against his Conscience c. Defender 1. It needs no inquiry what worship I meanes whether Church and Minister or Ministrations of the Word Prayer Seales c. For I meane none of these as they are dispenced in the Churches of England Though there have been corruptions in the order and dispensations of these things amongst them especially in the times when we lived there yet neither their Churches nor Ministry nor Ministrations were such or so false that fellowship with God could not be held of them not onely inwardly and secretly but also outwardly and visibly not onely in inward conversion and conviction but also in outward and visible Reformation according to light received Take my words as I wrote them and as he relateth them and my meaning is plaine enough I speake of such worship which if false fellowship with God is lost which cannot truly be avouched of any part of the Worship of God in England It is not truly said