most impiously affirms that not the human Nature of Christ dyed for us but also his Divine Nature see Luther's words quoted at large by Zuinglius and Hospinian If you say such scandalous blasphemies may be safely believed you will render your Christianity suspected and if you say that they are the Doctrine of the Reformation or that they may be believed according to the Principles of the Reformation you will make the Reformation and its Principles to be hated by any good Christian Isaac If I walk by the Rule of Faith of the Reformation I 'll prove my self a true Reformed Child and if I prove my self to be a Reformed Child my Christianity cannot be justly suspected What Tenet have you related of all those which you call blasphemies and scandals but has been judged by those eminent Doctors of our Reformation to be express Scripture or conformable to Scripture and since our Rule of Faith is Scripture as each person of sound Judgment understands it and since the Doctrine of our Reformation is but whatever any such person of sound Judgment judges to be expressed in or proved by Scripture it 's evident that all those Tenets are undeniably the Doctrine of the Reformation I say then and will say without any offence to my Christianity or blemish to our Reformed Church that those Tenets are the Doctrin of the Reformation and may be as safely believed by any Child of it as Figurative Presence Supremacy or Two Sacraments and let not any Bigot pretend to frighten me from this Doctrine by calling it Blasphemy and Impiety No it 's Scripture as interpreted by our renowned Reformed Doctors therefore it 's no Blasphemy Let any man convince me that our Rule of Faith must not be Scripture as each person of sound Judgment understands it and he will convince that this cannot be justly called the Doctrine of the Reformation but whilst that Principle and Rule of Faith stands unshaken nothing that is taught by any Person of Judgment to be the Doctrine of Scripture but it is to be called our Doctrine and may be safely believed You say that whoever has any Love for Christianity will hate the Reformation and its Principles if they give Liberty for to believe such Blasphemies But can any Mother be more indulgent to her Child than the Reformation is to us such as think those Tenets to be Blasphemies the Reformation gives them leave not to believe them and if any judges by Scripture that they are not Blasphemies but pure Doctrine as Luther Calvin and others did they have Liberty for to believe them He who denies them cannot in Charity check them who believe them nor can they who believe them check those who deny them whereas each follow the Rule of Faith and believe what they judge by Scripture to be true And if you or your Church of England cry out Blasphemy Blasphemy against all that you judge to be false why do not you cry Blasphemy against Presbyterians Lutherans and other Congregations from whom you dissent And what difference betwixt you and â—he Church of Rome The folly of this is to call Heresy and Blasphemy all that is not her own Doctrine And all that your Church of England mislikes must be Fanaticism Blaphemy and Impiety Must our Rule of Faith be Scripture as the Church of England understands it and not otherwise Presbyterians and Lutherans will never allow it If therefore our Rule of Faith be Scripture as each Person understands it any Person of sound Judgment in the Reformation may without scruple believe what he understands to be the Doctrine of Scripture Fourth DIALOGUE ISMAEL You still insist upon that principle that our Rule of Faith is Scripture as each person of sound judgment understands it and from that principle will follow many absurd consequences destructive of Piety and Religion Isaac That Principle is not invented by me it 's of our Holy Reformation if I did discourse with a Papist I would prove the principle to be true and Gods express Word but since I discourse with a Reformed Child I suppose I need not spend my time in proving it This principle then being an unquestionable truth in our Reformation no Reformed Child must be so irreverent and bold as to say that any Doctrine which clearly and unavoidably follows out of it is Blasphemous or Impious for that would be to condemn our principle by which we walk Ex vero non sequitur nisi veram From a true Principle nothing can follow but true Doctrine Can you deny but this was the Rule of Faith and principle of our first blessed Reformers and of the Church of England mentioned in her 39 Articles If therefore they judged and if any other judges by that Rule and Principle that those Tenets which you call Impious and Blasphemous to be true Doctrine they cannot be blamed for believing them Ismael I confess our first Reformers did speak so but I say such Errors and Impious Doctrines cannot without Irreverence be called the Doctrine of the Reformation and cannot without impiety be believed because our Reformation at present condemns and detests those Blasphemies for we must grant that our Reformation in its beginning was not in its full perfection of Doctrine God began it by Luther Calvin Zuinglius and others Those great Men had their frailties they did overlash in some things and what they said amiss Gods Heavenly Spirit inspired to the Church from time to time to correct it and has at length brought our Church to that purity of Doctrine and fulness of perfection which now it enjoys Nothing is to be called now the Doctrine of the Reformation but what is now believed by our Congregations and none of them believes those execrable Tenets you related Isaac You wrong the Reformation very much in saying it had not its full perfection in the beginning it 's rather to be thought that that polishing and refining of it in ensuing Years with new perfections and correcting the first draught of it by our first Reformers has been a corruption of it with some mixture of Popish Errors and Superstitions For all Religious Congregations and Pretenders to Piety are at the first beginning in the height of their perfection and in Progress of Years they decline and decay from their primitive Spirit into errors and corruption of manners Religious Congregations are not like Arts and Sciences which by time and experience receive new perfections but like Chimnies which grow daily blacker by continual smoke and fire Witness the Jewish Church and Law in its beginning flourishing and holy but corrupted in progress of time by Traditions of Men and Superstitions of Pharisees Witness also the Law of the Gospel in those happy times of the Apostles holy and pure but corrupted after some Years by errors of Popery If we be to seek for the pure and Orthodox Doctrine of the Primitive Church ought not we to be said by the Apostles Men raised
most of our Congregations do absolutely deny any Right in our Clergy to those Rents because they are no Clergy Yeâ— none will be so bold as to accuse Henry the VIII of Sacrilege for having taken the Church-living from them for to put them to better use And why should we dare say our King would commit any for depriving our Clergy of those Rents Believe he can lawfully do it or believe he cannot you 'll be still a good Child of the Reformation Believe what you please Ismael This is a ticklish point let 's leave it to the consideration of our wise and prudent Parliament and be pleased to answer to my doubt How can we live in peace and tranquility in Religion if our Rule of Faith be Scripture as each one understands it I remember a discourse started in the House of Lords not many Years ago by his Grace the Duke of Buckingham he desired to know what it was to be a Protestant wherein did Protestancy properly consist The Bishops who were present looked one upon another and whether they feared the difficulty of the Question or that for modesty's sake each expected to hear another speak first they stood silent for a while at last the Ice was broken by one others followed but hardly any two agreed and all that the Duke could gather out of their several answers was That our Rule of Faith was Scripture as each one understood it and Protestancy nothing but Scripture as Interpreted by the Parliament and Church of England Whereupon he concluded We have been these hundred Years very busie for to settle Religion and for ought I perceive we are as unsettled nâ—w as at the beginning And truly he had great reason for Religion and Faith is nothing else but that sense of Scripture which each person of sound Judgment understands and as it 's impossible we should all jump and agree in one sense and meaning of the Text so it 's impossible we shall ever be settled and agree in Religion Isaac The reason of our unsettlement hitherto and at present is the violent efforts what by Persecutions Acts of Parliaments and other Oppressions what by Invectives Intrigues and Cabals of the Church of Engand to draw all to be Protestants of the Presbyterians to make us deny Episcopacy and of each other Congregation to force us to their respective Tenets And whilst this constraint and severity is used against Mens Consciences it 's in vain to expect peace or settlement in our Reformed Church But let us follow the Rule of Faith let each one believe as in his Conscience he best understands Scripture let us all believe what we please and be permitted so to do and we shall without doubt enjoy perfect Peace and Tranquillity Believe you Figurative Presence if you will let the Lutheran believe his Real Presence if he likes it and let me believe no Presence at all if I judge there 's none why will not you permit me to follow that Rule of Faith which the whole Reformation even the Church of England gives me in her 39 Articles Scripture as each person of sound Judgment understands it To say we can never have settlement in Religion whilst this arbitrary Interpretation of Scripture is permitted is to speak like a Papist This the Pope and Papists said to our first blessed Reformers and the Popish Church says this day to us That we ought to submit our judgments to the Church and Councils that we ought not to believe what sense we think to be true but what the Pope and Councils propose unto us and if Luther and our other Reformers did not do ill in following their own Sense and Interpretation of Scripture against all the World why do you blame me or any other for following their example Ismael When you speak of our Reformation and Congregations I hear you reckon the Arians Socinians and Antitrinitarians among them sure you do not believe they or such like ancient condemned Hereticks were of the Reformation for we Protestants do believe the Mystery of the Trinity against them and will never own them to be our Brethren Isaac And do not you believe Episcopacy against the Presbyterians some Canonical Books against the Lutherans Supremacy against the Quakers and Infants Baptism against the Anabaptists and yet you own them as your Brethren and Godly Congregations of the Reformation or if you will deny them they will also scorn you and say they are more of the Reformation than you are and why will you not own the Arians c. as your Brethren tho' you believe the Trinity against them You say they are Old condemn'd Hereticks and does this Language become a Child of the Reformed Church By whom were they condemn'd Was it not by the Popish Church which also condemns us and says we are as much Hereticks as they and as we ought not to be so called and judge the Pope and Councils Sentence against us to be bold uncharitable and unjust so we must say of the Arians Pelagians and others condemn'd by them You say Protestants will never own them to be their Brethren God forbid the Protestant Church should be so uncharitable to their fellow Christians and so unjust to themselves B. Morton as I cited in my first Dialogue as learned a Man as the Church of England bred says the Arian Church is a true Church and will say no less of the others But what need we the Testimony of any for what reason so convincingly proves They who walk by one and the same Rule of Faith are of one and the same Religion therefore Lutherans Protestants Presbyterians and Independants do esteem themselves to be of the same Faith and Religion because they all have the same Rule which is Scripture as each Congregation understands it Also notwithstanding the difference and variety of Congregations in Popery they hold all but one Faith as they say because they have all but one Rule of their Belief which is their infallible Pope and Church But it 's evident that those which you call Antient condemn'd Hereticks have one and the same Rule of Faith with our Reformation for ours is Scripture as each person of sound Judgment understands it without any obligation of holding the Sense of it delivered by Pope Church Councils or any other therefore our first blessed Reformers did not care what Sense of it the Church or Pope did hold when they began to Preach the purity of the Gospel but each of them Interpreted it as he thought sit in the Lord and so purged the Church of many Errours This is the very self same Rule of Faith which Arians Pelagians Nestorians and others peremptorily condemned by Rome as Hereticks did follow and walk by Each of them Read and Interpreted Scripture Preached and Believed what Sense of it they thought to be true tho' they knew it was against the Doctrine of the Church looking on Scripture alone as their Rule of Faith without any regard of the Pope
could not be Christ the Son of God because he wanted providence and upon this reflection he renounced Christ and became a Jew And no man can say but that he acted and behaved himself like a true Child of the Reformation in so doing for he followed Scripture as he understood it and as he was a true Reformed Child in forsaking Popery because he understood by Scripture that the Reformation was better so since he understood by reading Scripture more that Judaism was better than the Reformation he acted like a good Reformed in chusing that which he understood by Scripture to be the best this is the Reformations Rule of Faith do you if you please as he did and you 'll be as good a Reformed as he And if you chuse to believe that there is a Church establisht on earth by Christ you must beware never to believe or perswade your self that we are bound to believe her Doctrin or live in her if you do not judge by Scripture that she teaches the Doctrin of Christ This is the most essential point of Popery an obligation of submitting our judgments to the Church and believing her Doctrin without any more examining and in this the Church of England is much like the Popish Church which by Acts of Parliaments and other severities would oblige all men to believe her Doctrin Rites and Ceremonies No God has given us Scripture for our Rule of Faith as we forsook the Popish Church because we discovered by Scripture her many Errours in Doctrin so we are not bound to believe the Doctrin of any other Church but as we find by Scripture her Doctrin is true Do and speak as Luther to 1. Edit Jen. in Resolut I will be free and will not submit to the Authority of Councils Popes Church or Vniversity to the contrary I will confidently teach whatever I Judge to be true whether it be Catholick Doctrin or Heretical condemned or approved Ismael Must I not believe that the Doctrin of Jesus Christ delivered to his Apostles and the Church is true Doctrin Isaac The Reformation teaches it is and you may safely believe it You may as safely believe it is not in the Principles of the Reformation because it teaches that Christ err'd in Doctrin and Manners Vere Pharisaei erant viri valde boni says Luther and Christus minime debuit eos taxare and Calvin says it 's a folly to think he was not ignorant in many things lastly David Georgius a Man of God and of a holy life says Osiander writes If the Doctrin of Christ and his Apostles had been true and perfect the Church which they planted had continued but now it is manifest that Antichrist has subverted it as it 's manifest in Papacy therefore it was false and imperfect See these words quoted in the History of David George Printed by the Divines of Basil at Antwerp Anno. 1568 both Doctrines are Scripture as interpreted by Men of sound Judgment a Child of the Reformation may believe which he will. Ismael Is it not the Doctrin of the Reformation that the Apostles were infallible in their Doctrin much more must we believe that Jesus Christ was so Isaac Yes it is you may believe it and it 's also the Doctrin of the Reformation that they were not infallible neither in their written or unwritten Doctrin so many of our most renowned Doctors speak and whatever any Men of sound Judgment Judge to be true by Scripture is the Doctrin of the Reformation Zuinglius one of the greatest Oracles of our Church says It 's a great ignorance to believe any infallible Authority in the Gospels or Epistles of the Apostles Beza not inferiour to Zuinglius blotted out of St. John the History of the Woman Adulteress Judging it a fable Clebitius affirms that Luke's relation of Christ's passion is not true because it does not agree with that of Matthew and Mark and more credit is to be to two than to one Calvin says Peter consented to and added to the Schism of the Church to the overthrow of Christian liberty and Christ's Grace Whitaker says It 's evident that after the Descent of the Holy Gospel the whole Church even the Apostles erred and Peter erred in Doctrin and manners Luther says Peter lived and taught extra Verbum Dei and Brentius his Disciple say that Peter and Barnabas together with the Church of Jerusalem erred after receiving the Holy Ghost If our Rule of Faith be Scripture as each person of sound Judgment understands it undoubtedly this must be the Doctrin of the Reformation and may be believed by any Reformed since it's Scripture interpreted by such renowned men Ismael This is most wicked Doctrin I 'll never believe it Isaac If you think by Scripture it 's wicked do not follow your Rule of Faith Scripture as you understand it but if any other understands by Scripture as those Authors did that the Doctrin is good give him leave to believe it he 'll but follow his Rule of Faith Scripture as he understands it Ismael I would gladly know which are the true Canonical Books of Scripture Isaac The Reformation teaches and you may believe with the Church of England that St. Paul's Epistle to the Hebrews those of James and Jude the 2. of St. Peter the 2. and 3. of St. John are true Canonical Scripture the Reformation also teaches they are not Canonical because Lutherans deny them believe which you like best But if you 'll live in peace and out of all strife with Protestants Lutherans and others who dispute if this or that be Canonical Scripture your readiest and speediest way will be to say there 's no true Canonical Scripture Scripture is no more to be regarded than other pious Books if you say this is not the Doctrin of the Reformation read Hossias de expresse Verbo Dei lib. de Har. where he relates this to be the Doctrin of the Swinfeldians as good Reformers as the best of us they say that we are not to regard any Instruction from Man or Book but Gods immediate inspiration which speaks secretly to our hearts for which they alledge those comfortable words of the Prophet I will hear what my Lord my God speaks in me for say they the Book which we call Scripture is a Creature and we must not seek for light and instruction from any Creature but from God the Father of Lights This is Scripture as interpreted by Men of sound Judgment any Child of the Reformation may believe it Ismael I thought to settle my mind in my choice of some Religion and you go the way to beat me from all for if you renverse the Authority of Scripture what warrant shall we have for any Religion God forbid the Reformation should deny the true Canon or the infallible truth of Scripture and let all the world say the contrary I will constantly aver and believe it's Gods infallible word Isaac How
Lutheran Church and no other my Judgment and Conscience therefore is as much constrained as that of the Papist and our Separation from Popery will come to be but an Exchange of one Slavery for another in that our Judgments and Counsciences were Slaves to the Pope and Councils in this we are Slaves to the Lutheran Church We became a Reformation by shaking off the Yoke of Popery from our Judgments and leaving them free for to believe Scripture as with the assistance of Gods Spirit each one best understands it and if we will continue a Reformation we must not submit again our Judgments to any other but retain that blessed Liberty we recovered for to believe the Tenets of any Congregation I confess this Liberty is not allowed by any one particular Congregation as you observe out you must also grant me That it 's allowed and taken by the whole Body of the Reformation for in this whole Body as it comprehends Protestants Lutherans Presbyterians c. One Congregation believes what the other denies and in any of them a Man may live with a safe Conscience which you will not deny therefore any Man has full Liberty for to believe or deny with a safe Conscience the Tenets of any Congregation Hence it follows and to my Grief I speak it that no particular Congregation be it of England France or Germany has the true Spirit of the Reformation in doting so much upon their particular Tenets as to think they cannot be as well denied as believed and in looking upon them with so passionate Eyes as to censure check and force others to believe them You shall see by this discourse that the true Spirit of the Reformation is not in any one particular Congregation separately taken from the rest for each particular Congregation constrains as much as it can all People to believe its own Tenets Protestancy would have us all to be Protestants and would root Lutherans out of the World as well as Popery Lutherans would if they could draw all to their own Net Presbytery esteems it self to be the best of all and would crush Protestancy if it could This then is the Spirit of each particular Congregation a limiting confining Spirit to some particular Tenets with an exclusion of all others but look on the whole Body of our Reformation as it includes all Reformed Congregations distinct from Popery there is a Holy extension of Spirit and Liberty for to be either Lutherans Presbyterians Protestants and any thing but Popery and whatever any Congregation may say of another but all unanimously agree that the Spirit of the Lord is in the whole Body of the Reformation since therefore that in this whole Body there is a Latitude and Liberty for to Profess divers and opposite Tenets and that each Tenet is believed by one and denied by others we must grant that this Holy Liberty for to believe or deny any Tenets we please is the true Spirit of our Holy Reformation It 's not therefore to be wish'd as you do that I should stick to any one particular Congregation or Tenet for such a restriction is meer Popery and your bemoaning the multiplicity of our Congregation is profane and Popish No it 's a blessing of the Lord upon our Reformation for which we shall never sufficiently thank him that we see it divided into so many Godly branches In the House of my Father said Christ there are many mansions John 14.2 Ismael By your discourse you seem to allow that we may with a safe Conscience change Religions as often as we please and be to day a Protestant to morrow a Lutheran next day a Presbyterian and so run over all Isaac I know you will be startl'd at my answer For I am not Ignorant that all men apprehended it to be absurd to change and run over so many Religions but truth must be declared though it may seem a scandal to the Jews and a folly to the Gentiles It s therefore the Doctrine of the Reformation that we may with a safe Conscience be to day Protestants to morrow Lutherans in France Hugonots in Hungary Antitrinitarians in Poland Socinians and in London of any Religion but Popery Ismael For shame you foully impose upon the Reformation there 's not any Congregation that teaches such a scandalous and absurd Doctrine Isaac By your favour I love the Reformation as the Apple of my Eye and will never yield to any in my Zeal for its Honour and Doctrine I am so far from imposing upon it that I will evidence your error in denying this to be its Doctrine and it will appear that whoever will deny it to be very lawful to change Religions as time and occasion requires must renounce the best and Fundamental Principles of our Reformation and must impiously condemn the practice of our first Reformers Ismael How will you make it out that this Doctrine is grounded upon the the Fundamental Principles of our Reformation whereas there is not one Congregation of ours but abhors it Isaac Sir you may well perceive by the tenor of my discourse that I am Piously and Charitably jealous with each particular Congregation and that my drift is to shew that each of them none excepted swerves from and transgresses against the true Spirit and solid Principles of the Reformation as will further appear in this discourse It 's uncontestedly true that the Rule of Faith of the Reformation is Scripture as the humble of Heart assisted with the Spirit of the Lord understand it for Lutherans will never admit their Rule of Faith to be Scripture as Interpreted by the Church of England but as Interpreted by themselves nor will England admit Scripture to be the Rule of Faith as it is Interpreted by the Presbyterians but as Interpreted by the Church of England so that the Doctrine of each Congregation is but Scripture as interpreted by them and whereas all these Congregations joyntly compose the whole Body of the Reformation and each Congregation is truly a member of the Reformation the Doctrine of the Reformation comes to be Scripture as each Congregation and Person of sound Judgment in the Reformation says the Church of England in her 39 Articles Interprets it This being an uncontrouled truth what Man of ever so sound Judgment but may Read to day Scripture as Interpreted by the Lutheran Church and Judge in his Conscience that Interpretation and Doctrine to be true consequently he may with a safe Conscience Profess that Religion Soon after he may meet Calvin's Books and charm'd with the admirable strength of his reasons and glosses upon Scripture he may Judge in his Conscience he is to be preferr'd before Luther and so may lawfully forsake Lutheranism for Calvinism then again he hits upon Scripture as Interpreted by the Church of England whose Doctrine ravishes him with that decency of Ceremonies that Majesty of her Liturgy that Harmony of her Hierarchy he is convinc'd it's better than Calvinism and embraces it Then again
we may with a safe Conscience change our Religion as you say Isaac Yes I can The Synod of Charenton in France held about the Year 1634 expresly says That for your Salvation it 's all alike whether you be a Calvinist Lutheran or of any other Congregation of the Reformed because says this venerable Synod they all agree in Fundamental Points and the Lutherans have nothing of Superstition or Idolatry in their manner of Divine Worship Change then as often as you list be a Lutheran be a Presbyterian be an Anabaptist by the mouth of this Synod you are assured you 'll never miss to hit right And I pray can any Synod of our times have more Authority in point of Doctrine then Luther our first Reformer a man extraordinarily raised by God says the Synod of Charenton and replenisht with his Spirit for to repair the ruins of his Church He teaches the Elevation of the Sacrament is Idolatry yet he did practise it and commanded it should be practised in the Church of Wittemberg to spite the Devil Carolstadius Giving you to understand that for just reasons you may teach now one Religion now another Zuinglius also whose vertue and learning is known to the World says That God inspired him to Preach what Doctrin was suitable to the times which as it often changes you may often change your Doctrin And consider you if it be not therefore that Christ our Lord says his Yoke is easie and his burden is light that is Religion because we can withdraw our Necks from it as time and just reasons requires Ismael Could you give me any Synod of the Church of England which delivers this Doctrin you would go near hand to convince me for that some particular Doctors should have taught or practised it does not prove it to be the Doctrine of the Reformation Isaac And what a greater Authority has a Synod of England for to prove a Doctrin to be of the Reformation than a Synod of France which I have produced Or than Luther and Zuinglius our first Reformers inspired by God to teach us the purity of the Gospel Was it not from Luther and Zuinglius that England received the Doctrin of the Reformation And if England be so bold as to say they erred in this what assurance can we have but that they erred in the rest But since nothing will please you but a Synod of England you shall have not one but many Can there be any Synod in England of so great Authority as our wise and prudent Parliaments Read our Chronicles and you 'll find that in a few Years time they changed and established different Religions by publick Acts of Parliament In Henry the VIII 's Reign they voted for Popery and made Acts and Statutes against the Reformation In Edward the VI 's time they banisht Popery and voted for Zuinglianism In Queen Mary's they pull'd down this and set up Popery again In Queen Elizabeth's they decryed this and set up not Zuinglianism but Protestancy in the midst of her Reign they polisht this and added some new perfections to it In King James and succeeding Kings times Protestancy is of a different stamp from that of Queen Elizabeth's Hear Dove in his Exhort to the English Recusants An. 1603. Pag. 31. Henry the 8. had his Liturgy which was very good Edward the 6. condemned it and brought in another composed by Peter Martyr and Bucer In Elizabeth 's time that was condemned and another approved and in the middle of her Reign her Liturgy was also misliked and a new one introduced we are so wanton that nothing will content us but Novelties Ismael Dove does not commend this Doctrin for he calls that frequent exchange of Religion Wantonness and Love of Novelty Isaac It 's no great matter what he says of it my drift is but to convince you that this is the Doctrine and practice of the best Member of our Reformation even of England and if you be convinc'd it 's the Doctrine of the Reformation You cannot deny but that it is good Doctrine If Dove calls it Wantonness S. Paul Ephes 4.22 Coloss 3.9 and Rom. 6.6 Commends it and exhorts us to put off the old Man with its deeds that 's Popery with its Ceremonies and put on the new Man that 's the Reformation where there 's neither Greek nor Jew Circumcision nor Vncircumcision Barbarian or Scythian Bound or Free but Christ is all and in all That 's to say where there 's no distinction of Protestants or Presbyterians Socinians or Arians it 's all one which Religion you profess Ismael But is there no Tenet of Religion which we are all indispensably obliged to hold Isaac Yes there is and no more but one We are bound to have Faith in Jesus Christ the Son of God and the Saviour of the World. This is the substance of Christian Religion be an Arian be a Presbyterian a Socinian or what you please be also plung'd to your ears in Wickedness of Life and Manners so you have Faith in Jesus Christ Son of God and Redeemer of the World and live in Charity you will be a Member of the true Church and be saved Do not imagine this is any new Doctrine invented by me search the vulgar sort of our Reformed Brethren you shall get thousands of this Opinion in our Realm search the Books of our Learned Doctors you shall find it in them also Doctor Morton in his much applauded Book dedicated to Queen Elizabeth for which he deserved a Bishoprick says The Arian Church is to be esteemed a true Church because they hold the true substance of Christian Religion which is Faith in Jesus Christ Son of God and Redeemer of the World And again in the same place Sect. 4. whose Title is Hereticks are Members of the Church he says Whosoever believes in Jesus Christ though by Wickedness of Life or Heresie in Doctrine they should err in Doctrine they are still true Members of the Church Therefore our learned Fox Doctor Field and Illiricus say the Greek Church notwithstanding their error in denying the Procession of the Holy Ghost from the Son are holy Members of the true Church because they have Faith in Jesus Christ Ismael Sure you will not say this Doctrine is of the Reformation or can be safely believed Isaac I do admire how you can doubt of it and that it may be believed For what is the Doctrine of the Reformation but as we have said in our Principles Scripture as Interpreted by any Man of sound Judgment in the Church And were not Doctor Morton Fox Field and Illiricus Men of sound Judgment eminent Learning and Godliness If therefore this be Scripture as Interpreted by them how can you deny it to be the Doctrine of the Reformation Ismael And what Jesus Christ are we obliged to believe in For Jesus Christ as believed by the Arians Socinians Luther and Calvin is far different from Jesus Christ as commonly
of England Pag. 103. Which is but an Exposition of 39 Articles Our Rule of Faith is but Scripture as each Person of sound Judgment in the Church understands it Authority is given to the Church and to each Person of sound Judgment in it to judge in Controversies of Faith and this is not the the private Judgment of our Church but also of our Brethren of Foreign Countries Ismael I confess not only these but many other Doctors abet your discourse and the General Vogue of our Reformation is for Scripture as each one understands it but alas You see well that we can never settle any Religion or Church by such a Rule of Faith. Isaac You can never settle any but this That every Man may without let or hinderance believe what be pleases And why should not this be a good Religion If Scripture as each one understands it be not our Rule of Faith if we must be constrained to believe Scripture not as we understand it but as it is understood by this or that Congregation what difference betwixt us and Papists They must believe Scripture as Interpreted by the Pope and Councils have ever so much light from God be ever so wise and witty you must depose your own Judgment and submit to that of the Pope Council and Popish Church To this pass we are come also we must believe the Kings Supremacy Episcopacy Figurative Presence tho perhaps we do not Judge by Scripture it to be true Doctrine we are constrained by Penal Laws and and Acts of Parliament to believe them as Papists by their Inquisition and why Because the Church of England understands by Scripture it 's true and if you reply you do not Interpret Scripture so you 'll not be heard you must submit and believe against your Judgment and what 's this but plain Popish Tyranny over Mens Consciences Did Luther and Calvin forsake the Pope and Councils for to submit their Judgments to any other No but to follow Scripture as each one of them understood it And tho' Luther was a Man raised by God and replenish'd with his Spirit to repair the ruins of the Church yet Calvin did no more submit to him than Luther did to the Pope nor did Zuinglius submit to Calvin but followed his own sense of Scripture nor did Oeclampadius submit to Zuinglius but every one searched the Scripture believed and taught what they thought to be true and thus we became a Reformation of Popery If therefore we will continue a Reformation and walk by the Spirit of our blessed Reformers we must not be constrained to believe any Mans sense of Scripture We must believe whatever we think to be true and have no other Rule of Faith but Scripture as each one understands it Ismael And what then What do you infer from this discourse Isaac This consequence that whereas no true Child of the Reformation be he of what Congregation he will can justly deny our Rule of Faith to be Scripture as any person of sound Judgment Interprets it it follows unavoidably that the Doctrine of the Reformation is Whatever any person of Judgment Interprets to be the true sense of Scripture and whatever Luther Calvin Beza or any other of sound judgment in the Reformation since its first rise until this day taught to be the true sence of Scripture is to be called and esteemed the Doctrine of the Reformation tho' to this or that Congregation it may seem to be wicked and scandalous Doctrine And now let me answer to an Objection you made against this Principle in our entrance to this discourse You objected that many Popish Doctors and Casuists delivered scandalous and base Doctrines which the Papists will not admit to be the Doctrin of their Church tho' delivered by popish Doctors and thence you pretended that the particular sentiments of private Doctors of the Reformation are not to be called the Doctrin of our Church But be pleased to observe the difference betwixt Popery and our Reformation the Rule of Faith in Popery is Scripture as Interpreted by the Pope and Council or their Church they will admit no other consequently no Doctrin is to be called Popery but what is Judged by the Pope and his Church or Council to be the sense of Scripture and if any Doctor or University holds any sense contrary to theirs it is to be called the Doctrin of that particular person and not the Doctrin of the popish Church because their Rule of Faith is not Scripture as Interpreted by their Pope and Council But whereas our Rule of Faith in the Reformation is Scripture as each person of sound judgment Interprets it whatever Doctrin or Sense is said by any Man to be of Scripture is justly to be called the Doctrine of the Reformation For example Melancthon a Man of sound Judgmen great Learning and of an upright Conscience Taught Bigamy to be the Doctrine of Scripture Beza Taught the Lords Supper might be administer'd a in any kind of Victuals as well as in Bread and Wine Calvin Taught that Christ despaired on the Cross and suffer'd the pains of Hell after his Death Why then let all the Bishops and Universities of England condemn this Doctrine let all the Synods of France and Germany decry it the Doctrine will be still of the Reformation because it 's Scripture as Interpreted by Men of sound Judgment Ismael The heat of your discourse has tired you and my memory is sufficiently loaden with what you have said let me digest it in my private retirement and we will meet again Isaac Content carry with you these three points which I have proved convincingly First our Rule of Faith is Scripture not as Interpreted by this or that but by any Man of sound Judgment Secondly it follows hence that the Doctrine of the Reformation must be and ought to be called whatever any Man of sound Judgment says is the sense of Scripture Thirdly it follows we may change Religions as often as we please Third Dialogue ISMAEL I remember well the summary of your last discourse given me in three points and I find the second to be absurd and repugnant to reason you 'll never perswade it tho' you pleaded for it with great energy what if a silly Woman Cobler or other Tradesmen read Scripture and give their sense of it that forsooth must be called the Doctrine of the Reformation And it shall be lawful for them to believe it against the Doctrine of the whole Church Isaac Do not limit Gods infinite goodness by measuring his mercies towards his Creatures with your narrow apprehensions Take notice he says he has chosen the weak and contemptible of the World for to confound the strong ones I confess unto you Father that you have hid these things from the Wise and Prudent and hast revealed them to the little ones And there he choose poor simple Fishermen to his Apostles I know it 's the practice of Papists and from them your
Church Councils or Fathers The Church of Rome proud and impatient of any Opposition condemned them as Hereticks for not submitting their Judgments to her for taking Scripture as they understood it and not as the Church and Councils understood it for their Râ—â—â— of Faith and if this be a crime we are as guilty as they we are equally â—… ocent or innocent we are both Hereticks or none is we are therefore concern'd in their Honour and ought to defend the integrity of their procedure against the common Enemy which is the Pope They were Reformers of the Church in their times as we are in ours and whereas they have the same Rule of Faith so they have the same Religion with the Reformation Ismael Then you will say Arianism is the Doctrine of the Reformation and we may lawfully believe it Isaac I say God's Unity in Nature and Trinity in Persons is the Doctrine of the Reformation because the Protestant Lutheran and Hugonot Church judge by Scripture it is true and if you judge also by Scripture it is the true Doctrine you may believe it I say also if you judge by Scripture this Mystery is not true you may safely deny it acccording to the Principles of the Reformation and be still as good a Member of the Reformed Church as they who believe it for whoever believes what he judges by Scripture to be true is a true Reformed And that the denial of the Trinity is as much the Doctrine of the Reformation as the belief of it it appears not only because it was the Doctrine of the Arians who as I proved are truly of the Reformed Church but because it was taught by the greatest Lights of our Church Calvin says the Text. My Father is greater than I must be understood of Christ not only as he is Man but also as he is God. And that the Council of Nice did abuse the Text My Father and I are one for to prove the Vnity of both in Nature whereas it only signifies their Vnity by conformity of Wills. Again he says Epist 2. ad Polon in Tract Theol. pag. 796. That Prayer Holy Trinity one God have mercy of us is brabarous and does not please me And adds The Son has his own substance distinct from the Father His Disciple Danaeus says it 's a foolish insipid Prayer And our great Apostle Luther who as Fox witnesseth was the Chariot and Conductor of Israel and a Man extraordinarily raised and replenish'd with Gods Spirit to teach the purity of the Gospel caused that Prayer to be blotted out of the Litanies That word Trinity says he sounds coldly my Soul hates that word Humousion and the Arian did well in not admitting it Lastly Ochinus that great Oracle of England impugns this Mystery with a strong discourse We are not obliged to believe says he more than the Saints of the Ancient Testament otherwise our condition would be worse than theirs but they were not obliged to believe this Mystery therefore we are not obliged Examin I pray the Works of these eminent Doctors where I quote them consider if they be not not only Men of sound judgment but Men extraordinarily raised by God says the Synod of Charenton the Chariots and Conductors of Israel says Fox Men to be reverenc'd after Christ says our Doctor â—owel and Apostolical Oracles sent to teach us the purity of the Gospel and conclude it 's an undeniable Verity that this is the Doctrine of the Reformation whereas it's Scripture as Interpreted by such Men Oh! But England France and Scotland believe this Mystery well And what then That proves that the Mystery is also the Doctrine of the Reformation because whatever any Man of sound Judgment thinks to be Scripture it 's the Doctrine but is England or France alone the whole Reformation Are not Luther Calvin Danaeus Ochinus as well of the Reformation and Men of as sound Judgment as they Since therefore they understand by Scripture there 's no Trinity it 's the Doctrine of the Reformation also that there 's none Believe it or deny it which you like best and you 'll be still of the Reformed Church Isaac By the principle you run upon you say any may Blasphemy is the Doctrin of the Reformation for there 's hardly any so execrable but some Dr. of ours has delivered and taught it Ismael The Principle I run upon is this Scripture as each person of sound Judgment interprets it is our Rule of Faith Judge you if that be not a good Principle in our Reformed Church whereas this is the Rule of Faith given us by the 39 Articles and generally by all our Doctors as I proved in my first Dialogue this being our Rule of Faith and Reformed Doctrine it 's evident that whatever Doctrine is judged by any person of sound Judgment to be contained in Scripture is the Doctrine of our Reformation some persons of sound Judgment say the Real Presence is expressed by Scripture this therefore is the Doctrine of the Reformation others say only Figurative Presence is taught in Scripture this also is the Doctrine of the Reformation some understand by Scripture there is a Mystery of the Blessed Trinity this therefore is the Doctrine of the Reformation others understand there 's no such Mystery this also is the Doctrine of the Reformation so that whether you believe or deny this or any other Tenet controverted you 'll still hold the Doctrine of the Reformation Ismael Calvin says Christ pray'd unadvisedly the Eve of his passion that he uttered words whereof he was afterward sorry that in his passion he was so troubled of all sides that overwhelm'd with desparation he desisted from invoking God which was to renounce all hopes of Salvation And says he if you object it 's absurd and scandalous to affirm Christ despair I answer This desparation proceeded from him as he was man not as he was God. And this is not only the Doctrine of Calvin but of Brentius Marlotus Jacobus Minister quoted by Bilson and of Beza Will you say this is the Doctrine of the Reformation or that we can without scruple believe it Also Calvin says That Christ's corporal death was not sufficient for to redeem us but that after having despaired on the Cross he suffered the death of his Soul that 's to say that his Soul after his corporal death suffered the pains of the damn'd in Hell. And says he in the same place they are but ignorant doltish brutish men who will deny it Luther also teaches the same Doctrine As he suffered with exceeding pains the death of the body so it seems he suffered afterward the death of the Soul in Hell Epinus a learned Lutheran says Christ descended into Hell for thee and suffered not only corporal death but the death and fire of Hell. Mr. Fulk and Perkins avow this is also the express Doctrine of Illiricus Latimer and Lossius Also Luther
can you say I beat you from all Religion when I directly perswade you to follow the Rule of Faith of our Reformation Scripture as each person of sound judgment understands it let this be your Religion if you will be a true Reformed whatever you judge in your conscience to be true let the Church of England or France or any other say and believe what they will you are to believe but what you judge by Scripture to be true and this is the Religion of the Reformation Ismael I would gladly know if it be lawful to chop or change the Text Isaac It 's the Doctrine of the Reformation that you cannot because God has forbid to add to or take away from his word and therefore we condemn the Papists for their Tradition obtruded upon the Flock as the Word of God It 's also the Doctrine of the Reformation and the practice of our best Reformers when the Text does not speak clear enough that for to refute Popery and establish our own Doctrine we may add or diminish a word or two which is not to change the Word of God but to make it speak more expresly as when Luther had a mind to prach Justification by Faith alone finding the Text said but Man is justified by Faith he added the word Alone and made the Text very clear against Popery which formerly was somewhat obscure Zuinglius being to teach the Figurative presence of Christ in the Sacrament found the Text This is my Body to be too pat against his Doctrine and instead of Is put in This signifieth The Church of England being to preach the Kings Spiritual Supremacy could not convince the obstinate Papist by the Original Text which said 1 Pet. 2. submit your selves unto every humane creature for the Lord's sake whether it be the King as excelling or to c. But in King Edwards time they altered one word and made the Text thus submit your selves to every Ordinance of Man whether it be to the King as being the chief head and the following impressions of the Bible in the year 1557. and 79. say To the King as supreame And so the true Doctrine is clearly convinc'd out of Scripture as also the lawfulness of Priests Marriage for the Text before the Reformation said 1 Cor. 9. have we not power to lead about a woman sister and now our Bibles say have we not power to lead about a Wife being our Sister hence it 's evident according to the Doctrine and practice of our Reformation that when you have a mind to establish a Doctrine which you judge to be true you may change the Text and make it speak to your sense and meaning provided you judge your sense to be true Ismael What do you think of Justifying Faith Does Faith alone justify us Isaac It 's the Doctrine of the Reformation that without charity it cannot because St. Paul says 1 Cor. 13. If I have Faith so as to move mountains and no Charity I am nothing It 's also the Doctrine of the Reformation that it is impious and wicked to say Faith alone without Charity does not justify this is Scipture as interpreted by Luther a man of sound judgment Who say quoth Luther that Faith alone though perfect it be cannot Justify without Charity say impiously and wicked because Faith alone without any good works doth justifie Believe which Doctrine you please both are of the Reformation Ismael Luther was insolent in checking the Doctrine of St. Paul. Isaac Probably he did not reflect that it was the Doctrine of the Apostle and if you will have it to be a Check of St. Paul Luther will answer for himself Be it says he that the Church Augustine or other Doctors also Peter and Paul nay and an Angel from Heaven should teach otherwise than as I teach yet my Doctrine is such that it seteth forth Gods Glory I know I teach no Humane but Divine Doctrine It 's the Doctrine of the Reformation that Faith alone without any good Works and notwithstanding all Sins you are Guilty of doth justifie you This is Scripture as Interpreted by Luther who says nothing can damn you but Incredulity as nothing but Faith can save you of Whitaker Wotton Fulk and Beza whose words I related in our precedent Dialogue which I believe you remember and I need not repeat It 's also the Doctrine of the Reformation that good Works are meritorious of Grace and Glory Hooker and Harmonia confess say it 's the Doctrine of Scripture and what any person of sound Judgment judges to be the Doctrine of Scripture he may believe it for this is our Rule of Faith. It 's likewise the Doctrine generally of all our Church that good Works are not at all meritorious Tindall called by Fox a Man of God and a constant Martyr judges this to be so true that in his Treatise de Mammona iniquitatis he says Christ himself did not by all his good Works merit the Glory And tho' the Scripture says expresly he did Calvin affirms that it 's a foolish curiosity to examine and a rash proposition to say Christ did Merit It 's the Doctrine of the Reformation that tho' good Works be not meritorious nor have not the least Influence in our Justification or Salvation yet they are absolutely needful for both in as much as that true Faith cannot be without good Works because they are the Marks and Signs of a living Faith by whch alone we are Saved this is the Judgment of the Church of England expressed in the 11 and 12 Articles of the 39 and of Melancthon in locis Commun de Bonis operibus and you may believe it You may also believe and it 's the Doctrine of the Reformation that good Works are so far from being needful that they are prejudicious and hurtful to our Salvation and the best way to be Saved is to do no good Work at all this is Scripture as Interpreted by Illiricus Flacius Amsdorsius quoted in Act. Colloq Aldeburg pag. 205. and 299. and Luther was so deeply perswaded of this truth tho that Christ said If thou wilt enter into the Kingdom of Heaven keep the Commandment Luther says it 's an obstacle to our Salvation to keep them Where it is said quoth he that Faith in Christ doth indeed justify us but that it is necessary also to keep the Commandments there Christ is denyed and Faith abolish'd because that which is proper to Faith alone is attributed if the Commandments And again says he if Faith be accompanied with good Works it 's no true Faith that it may justify it must be alone without any good Works This is Scripture as interpreted by such eminent and sound Men and consequently the Doctrine of the Reformation and who doubts but that any Doctrine of the Reformation may be believed Hence forward when you hear the Preacher exhort you to good Works you may believe him if you please
is to cast dirt upon his Church the honest Quaker will say I am a profane man others perhaps will say I am of no Religion but a Despiser of all and our Congregations are so uncharitable that likely none will accept of me because I say all Religions are very good a sad thing that a man must be hated for speaking well of his Neighbours and that each one must have all the World to be naught but himself This then is my Religion To suffer Persecution for Justice and Truth to render good for evil to bless those who curse me and speak well of all Congregations whilst they speak all evil against me reflect well upon what I discoursed hitherto and you will find I am as great a Lover of the Reformation as they who may think me it's Enemy and read my following discourse and you will find I love Popery as well as the Reformation The Spirit of God makes no exceptions of Persons Ismael You promised to prove by the principles of the Reformation that we may believe all the Tenets of Popery and remain still of the Reformation how can this be Isaac You remember I excepted one Principle of Popery wherein you must necessarily dissent from them and if you deny this one Principle you may believe all their other Tenets as well as the Pope and be as good a Child of the Reformation as Luther Ismael What Principle is this which you seem to make the only destinctive sign of a Reformed from a Papist Isaac Listen a while a Papist is not a Papist because he believes Purgatory Transubstantiation Indulgences and the rest of Popish Tenets but because he believes them upon the Testimony of the Pope and Church because they assure him they are revealed Truths If a Papist did say I believe these Tenets because I my self do judge by Scripture that they are revealed and not because the Pope and Church say they are he would be no Papist The Papist believes the Mystery of the Trinity the Incarnation and Passion of Christ the Protestant believes the same Mysteries yet the one is a Papist and no Protestant the other is a Protestant and no Papist And why because the Papist believes them upon the Testimony of the Pope and Church the Protestant believes them upon the Testimony of Gods written Word Believe then whatever you please of Popery provided you believe it because you judge by Scripture it 's true and not because the Pope or the Church says it you 'll never be a Papist but a perfect Reformed Ismael If this discourse be solid you may hedge in all the Articles of Popery into our Reformation Isaac If you peruse the works of our Reformed Doctors you 'll hardly find any Article of Popery but has been judged by many or some of our best Reformed Doctors to be the true Doctrine of Scripture and whereas any Doctrin which any Person of sound Judgment understands by Scripture to be the true may be justly called the Doctrin of the Reformation it follows that hardly is there any Article of Popery for which we see so many persecutions against Subjects and such troubles in our Parliaments but is truly the Doctrin of the Reformation Ismael Shew me some Examples of this Isaac The Veneration of Relicks and Saints dead Bones is generally believed by us to be meer Popery and Superstition therefore we made no store of Luther and Calvins Bones tho we know them to be as great Saints as any in the Popish Church but Veneration of Relicks and Saints Bones is the Doctrin of our Reformation for whatever is set down and commended by our Common-Prayer-Book must be undoubtedly esteemed our Reformed Doctrin and Practice and our Common-Prayer-Book aprinted since our Kings happy Restauration in it's Kalendar sets down a day to the Translation of S. Edward King of Saxons Body in the month of June and dedicates another to the Translation of the Bodies of St. Martin and Swithin in the month of July The Veneration and use of the sign of the Cross is flat Popery in the Judgment of all our Congregations yet any Reformed Child may laudably and piously use it whereas our Common-Prayer Book in the Administration of Baptism Commands the Minister to use it saying We sign him with the sign of the Cross in token that hereafter he shall not be ashamed to confess the Faith of Christ crucified and Manfully to fight under his Bannar against Sin the World and the Devil And in our Kalender printed since his Majesties Restauration it 's called the Holy Cross Our Congregations generally believe it 's Popery to keep Holy-days except the Sabbath day and Saints days to fast in Lent Vigils commanded Ember-days and Fridays and all this is recommended to us in our Common-Payer Book and the Minister is commanded in the Administration of the Lords Supper to publish the Holy-days of the week and exhort us to Fast and surely he is not commanded to teach or exhort us to any thing but to the Doctrin of the Reformation it 's true the Students of our Colledges of Oxford and Cambridge are much troubled with scruples in this point these Pauperes de Lugduno are compelled to fast all Fridays throughout the year and it 's not hunger that makes them complain but tenderness of Conscience because they fear it's Popery It 's a Popish errour we say to believe that Pennance or our penal works of Fasting Alms-deeds or corporal Austerities can avail and help for the remission of our sins and satisfying Gods Justice No we say penal works serve for nothing all is done by Repentance that 's to say by sorrow of heart for having offended God. This is the Doctrin of Danaeus Willit Junius and Calvin who says Francis Dominick Bernard Antony and the rest of Popish Monks and Fryers are in Hell for their Austerities and penal works for all that you may very well believe and it 's the Doctrin of the Reformation that Pennance and penal works do avail for the remission of our sin and are very profitable to the Soul for our Common-Prayer Book in the Commination against sinners says thus In the Primitive Church there was a Godly Discipline that at the beginning of Lent such as were notorious sinners were put to open Pennance and punish'd in this World that their Souls may be saved in the day of the Lord. And our Common-Prayer Books wishes that this Discipline were restored again and surely it does not wish that Popery were restored therefore it 's no Popery to say that Pennance or Penal works do satisfie for our sins in this World and avail to save us in the other Ismael I know many of our Congregation mislike much our Common-Prayer Book for these Popish-Tenets but what do you say of the grand errours of Popery can a man be a true Child of the Reformation and yet believe the Popes Supremacy deny the Kings Supremacy believe Transubstantiation and Communion in one kind are these Tenets