of Illiricus Latimer and Lossius Also Lurher most impiously affirms that not only the human nature of Christ dyed for vs but also his Divin nature see Luther's words quoted at large by Zuinglius and Hospinian If you say such scandalous blasphemies may be safely believed you will render youâ— Christianitie suspected and if yoâ— say that they are the Doctrin of thâ— Reformation or that they may be believed according the Principles â— the Reformation you will make thâ— Reformation and its Principles tâ— be hated by any good Christian Isaac If I walk by the Rule oâ— faith of the Reformation I 'l prove my self a true Reformed Child and if I prove my self to be a Reformed Child my Christianity cannot be justly suspected What Tenet have you related of all those which you call blasphemies and scandals but has been judged by those Eminent Drs. of our Reformation to be express Scripture or conformable to Scripture and since our Rule of faith is Scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it and since the Doctrin of our Reformation is but whatever any such Person of sound judgment judges to be expressed in or proved by Scripture its evident that all those Tenets are vndeniably the Doctrin of the Reformation I say then and will say without any offence to my Christianity or blemish to our Reformed Church that those Tenets are the Doctrin of the Reformation and may be as safely believed by any Child of it as Figurative Presence supremacy or Two Sacraments and let not any Bigot pretend to freghten me from this Doctrin by calling it blasphemy and impiety No its Scripture as interpreted by our renowned Reformed Doctors therefore it s no blasphemy let any man convince me that our Rule of faith must not be Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it and he will convince that this cannot be justly called the Doctrin of the Reformation but whylst that Principle and Rule of faith stands vnshaken nothing that is taught by any Person of sound judgment to be the Doctrin of Scripture but is to be called our Doctrin and may be safely believed You say that whoeuer has any loue for Christianity will hate the Reformation and its Principles if they give libertie for to believe such blasphemies but can any mother be more indulgent to her Child than the Reformation is to vs such as think those Tenets to be blasphemies the Reformation gives them leave not to believe them and if any judges by Scripture that they are not blasphemies but pure Doctrin as Luther Calvin and others did they have liberty for to believe them He who denyes them cannot in charity check them who believe them nor can they who believe them check those who deny them wheras each follow our Rule of faith and believe what they judge by Scripture to be true And if you or your Church of England cry out Blasphemy Blasphemy against all that you judge to be fals why do not you cry blasphemie against Presbyterians Lutherans and other Congregations from whom you dissent and what difference betwixt you and the Church of Rome the folly of this is to call Heresy and blasphemy all that is not her own Doctrin and all that your Church of England mystikes must be fanaticism blasphemy and impiety must our Rule of faith be Scripture as the Church of England vnderstands it and not otherwise Presbyterians and Lutherans will neuer allow it if therefore our Rule of faith be Scripture as each Person vnderstands it any Person of sound judgment in the Reformation may without scrupule believe what he vnderstands to be the Doctrine of Scripture IV. DIALOGUE ISMAEL You still insist vpon that Principle that our Rule of faith is Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it and from that Principle will follow many absurd consequences destructive of piety and Religion Isaac That Principle is not invented by me it s of our holy Reformation if J did discourse with a Papist J would prove the Principle to be true and Gods express Word but since J discourse with a Reformed Child J suppose and not spend my time in proving it this Principle then being an vnquestionable truth in our Reformation no Reformed Child must be so irreverent and bold as to say that any Doctrin which cleerly and vnauoidably follows out of it is blasphemous or impious for that would be to condemn our Principle by which we walk Ex vero non sequitur nisi verum from a true Principle nothing can follow but true Doctrin can you deny but this was the Rule of faith and Principle of our first blessed Reformers and of the Church of England mentioned in her 39. Articles if therefore they judged and if any other judges by that Rule and Principle that those Tenets which you call impious and blasphemous be true Doctrin they cannot be blamed for believing them Ismael I confess our first Reformers did speake so but J say such Errors and impious Doctrins cannot without irreverence be called the Doctrin of the Reformation and cannot without impiety be belieued because our Reformation at present condemns and detests those blasphemies for we must grant that our Reformation in its beginning was not in its full perfection of Doctrin God began it by Luther Caluin Zuinglius and others those great men ha their fraylties they did ouerlash in som things and what they said amiss Gods heavenly spirit inspired to the Church from time to time to correct it and has at length brought our Church to that purity of Doctrin and fullness of perfection which now it enjoyes Nothing is to be called now the Doctrin of the Reformation but what is now believed by our Congregations and none of them believes those execrable Tenets you related Isaac you wrong the Reformation very much in saying it had not its full perfection in the beginning it s rather to be thought that that polishing and refining of it in ensuing years with new perfections and correcting the first draught of it by our first Reformers has been a corruption of it with som mixture oâ— Popish errors and superstitions for all religious Congregations and Pretenders to piety are at the first beginning in the height of their perfection and in progress of years they decline and decay from their primitive Spirit into errors and corruption of manners Religious Congregations are not like Arts and Sciences wihich by tyme and experience receive new perfefections but like chimnies which grow dayly blacker by continual smoke and fire witness the Jewish Church and law in its beginning florishing and holy but corrupted in progress of time by Traditions of men and superstitions of Pharisees witness also the law of the Ghospell in those happy tymes of the Apostles holy and pure but corrupted after som years by errors of Popery Jf wee be to seek for the pure and Orthodox Doctrin of the primitive Church ought not we to be said by the
king himself nor any other did doubt of their Right and now most of our Congregations do absolutly deny any Right in our Clergy to those Rents because they are no Clergy yet none will be so bold as to accuse Henry the VIII of sacriledge for hauing taken the Church Liuings from them for to put them to better vse And why should wee dare say our king would commit any for depriving our Clergy of those Rents believe he can lawfully do it or believe he can not you 'l be still a good Child of the Reformation Believe what you please Ismael This is a ticklish point let 's leaue it to the consideration of our wise and prudent Parliament and be pleased to answer to my doubt how can wee live in peace and tranquillitie in Religion if our Rule of faith be Scripture as each one vnderstands it I remember a discourse started in the house of Lords not many yeares agon by his Grace the Duke of Buckingam he desired to know what was it to be a Protestant wherin did Protestancy properly consist the Bishops who were present looked one vpon an other and whether they feared the difficultie of the question or that for modesty's sake each expected to hear an other speake firstâ— they stood sylent for a whyle at last the yce was broken by one others followed but hardly any two agreed and all that the Duke could gather out of their several answers was that our Rule of faith was Scripture as each one vndestood it and Protestancy nothing but Scripture as interpreted by the Parliament and Church of England whervpon he concluded Wee are these hundred yeares very busy for to settle Religion and for ought I perceive wee are as vnsettled now as at the beginning And truly he had great reason for Religion and faith is nothing else but that sense of Scripture which each Person of sound judgment vnderstands and as it 's impossible wee should all jump and agree in one sense and meaning of the text so its impossible wee shall euer be settled and agree in Religion Isaac The reason of our vnsettlement hitherto and at present is the violent efforts what by persecutions Acts of Parliaments and other oppressions what by Invectives intrigues and cabals of the Church of England to draw all to be Protestants of the Presbyterians to make vs deny Episcopacy and of each other Congregation to force vs to their respective Tenets and whylst this constraint and severity is vsed against mens consciences it s in vain to expect peace or settlement in our Reformed Church but let vs follow our Rule of faith let cach one believe as in his conscience he best vnderstands Scripture let vs all believe what wee please and be permitted so to do and wee shall without doubt enjoy perfect peace and Tranquillity believe you Figurative Presence if you will let the Lutheran believe his Real Presence if he likes it and let me believe no Presence at all if I judge ther 's none why will not you permit me to follow that Rule of faith which the whole Reformation euen the Church of England gives me in her 39. Articles Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it To say wee can neuer have settlement in Religion whylst this arbitrary interpretation of Scripture is permitted is to speake like a Papist this the Pope and Papists said to our first blessed Reformers and the Popish Church saies this day to vs that wee ought to submit our judgments to the Church and Councils that wee ought not to believe what sense wee think to be true but what the Pope and Councils propose vnto vs and if Luther and our other Reformers did not do ill in follwing their own sense and interpretation of Scripture against all the world why do you blame me or any other for following their example Ismael When you speake of our Reformation and Congregations I heare you reckon the Arians Socinians and Antitrinitarians among them sure you do not belieue they or such like ancient condemned hereticks were of the Reformation for wee Protestants do believe the Mystery of the Trinity against them and will never own them to be our Brethren Isaac And do not you believe Episcopacy against the Presbyterians som Canonical Books against the Lutherans Supremacy against the Quakers and Infants Baptism against the Anabaptists and yet you own them as your Brethren and godly Congregations of the Reformation or if you will deny them they will also scorn you and say they are more of the Reformation than you are and why will not you own the Arians c. as your Brethren tho you believe the Trinitie against them you say they are old condemn'd Heretiks and does this language becom a Child of the Reformed Church by whom were they condemn'd was it not by the Popish Church which also condemns vs and saies wee are as much Hereticks as they and as wee ought not to be so called and judge the Pope and Councils sentence against vs to be bold vncharitable and injust so wee must say of the Arians Pelagians and others condemn'd by them You saie Protestants will never own them to be their Brethren God forbid the Protestant Church should be so vncharitable to their fellow Christians and so injust to themselves B. Morton as I cited in my first Dialogue as learned a man aâ— the Church of England bred saies the Arian Church is a true Church and will say no less of the others but what need wee the testimonie of any for what reason so convincingly proves They who walk by one and the same Rule of faith are of one and the same Religion therefore Lutherans Protestants Presbyterians and Independents do esteem themselves to be of the same faith and Religion because they all have the same Rule which is Scripture â— each Congregation vnderstands it also notwithstanding the difference and varietie of Congregations in Popery they hold all but one faith as they say because they have alâ— but one Rule of their beliefe whicâ— is their infallible Pope and Church but it 's evident that those which yoâ— call Ancient condemned Hereticks have one and the same Rule of faith with our Reformation for ours is Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it without any obligation of holding the sense of it delivered by Pope Church Councils or any other therefore our first blessed Reformers did not care what sense of it the Church or Pope did hold when they began to preach the purity of the Ghospel but each of them interpreted it as he thought fit in the Lord and so purged the Church of many Errors This is the very self same Rule of faith which Arians Pelagians Nestorians and others peremptorily condemned by Rome as Hereticks did follow and walk by each of them read and interpreted Scripture preached and believed what sense of it they tought to be true tho they knew it was against the Doctrin of the Church looking on
establisht it could not be Christ the son of God because he wanted prouidence and vpon this reflexion he renounced Christ and became a Jew And no man can say but that he acted and behaued himself like a true Child of the Reformation in so doing for he followed scripture as he vnderstood it and as he was a true Reformed Child in forsaking Popery because he vnderstood by Scripture that the Reformation was better so since he vnderstood by reading Scripture more that Judaism was better than the Reformation he acted like a good Reformed in chosing that which he vnderstood by Scripture to be the best this is the Reformations Rule of faith do you if you please as he did and you 'l be as good a Reformed as he And if you choose to believe that there is a Church establisht on earth by Christ you must beware never to believe or perswade yourself that wee are bound to believe her Docctrin or live in her if you do not judge by scripture that she teachs the Doctrin of Christ This is the most essential point of Popery An obligation of submitting our judgments to the Church and believing her Doctrin without any more examin and in this the Church of England is much like the Popish Church which by acts of Parliaments and other severities would oblige all men to believe her Doctrin Rites and Ceremonies No God has given vs scripture for our Rule of faith as wee forsook the Popish Church because wee discouered by Scripture her many Errors in Doctrin so wee are not bound to believe the Doctrin of any other Church but as wee find by scripture her Doctrin is true Do and speake as Luther to 1. Edit Jen. in Resolut I will be free and will not submit to the authority of Councils Popes Church or vniversity to the contrary I will confidently teach whatever I judge to be true whether it be Catholic Doctrin or hereticall condemned or approued Ismael Must I not believe that the Doctrin of Jesus Christ delivered to his Apostles and the Church is true Doctrin Isaac The Reformation teaches it is and you may safely believe it You may as safely believe it is not in the Principles of the Reformation because it teaches that Christ err'd in Doctrin and manners Vere Pharisaei eâ—ant viri valde boni saies Luther Christus minime debuit eos taxare and Calvin saies it s a folly to think he was not ignoranâ— in many things lastly David Georgius a Man of God and of a holy life saies Osiander writes If the Doctrin of Christ and his Apostles had been true and perfect the Church which they planted had continued but now it is manifest that Antichrist has subverted it as it 's manifest in Papacy therefore it was false and impeâ—fect See these words quoted in the historie of David George printed by the Divins of Basile at Antwerp an 1568. both Doctrins are Scripture as interpreted by men of sound judgment a Child of the Reformation may believe which he will Ismael Is it not the Doctrin of the Reformation that the Apostles were infallible in their Doctrin much more must wee believe that Jesus Christ was so Isaac Yes it is you may believe it and it s also the Doctrin of the Reformation that they were not infallible neither in their written or vnwritten Doctrin so many of our most renowned Drs speake and whatever any men of sound judgment judge to be true by scripture is the Doctrin of the Reformation Zuinglius one of the greatest Oracles of our Church saies It 's a great ignorance to believe any infallible authority in the Ghospels or Epistles of the Apostles Beza not inferiour to Zuinglius blotted out of S. John the historie of the Woman Adulteress judging it a fable Clebitius affirms that Luk's relation of Christ's passion is not true because it does not agree with that of Mathew and Mark and more credit is to be given to two than to one Calvin saies Peter consented to and added to the schism of the Church to the ouerthrow of Christian liberty and Christ's Grace Whitaker sais It 's evident that after the Descent of the Holy G. the whole Church even the Apostles erred and Peter erred in Doctrin and Manners Luther saies Peter liued and taught extra Verbum Dei and Brentius his disciple saies that Peter and Barnabas togither with the Church of Ierusalem erred after receiving the H. Ghost If our Rule of faith be Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it vndoubtedly this must be the Doctrin of the Reformation and may be believed by any Reformed since its Scripture interpreted by such renowned men Ismael This is most wicked Doctrin I 'l never believe it Isaac Jf you think by Scripture its wicked do not follow your Rule of faith Scripture as you vnderstand it but if an other vnderstands by scripture as those authors did that the Doctrin is good give him leave to believe it hee 'l but follow his Rule of faith Scripture as he vnderstands it Ismael I would gladly know which are the true Canonical bookes of scripture Isaac The Reformation teachs and you may believe with the Church of England that S. Paul's Epistle to the Hebrews those of James and Jude the 2. of S. Peter the 2. and 3 of S. John are true Cononical Scripture the Reformation also teachs they are not Canonical because Lutherans deny them believe which you like best But if you l ' live in peace and out of all strife with Protestants Lutherans and others who dispute if this or that be Canonical Scripture your rediest and speediest way will be to say ther 's no true Canonical Scripture Scripture is no more to be regarded than other pious bookes if you say this is not the Doctrin of the Reformation reade Hossius de expresso Verbo Dei lib. de Haer. where he relates this to be the Doctrin of the Swiâ—feldians as good Reformeds as the best of vs they say that wee are not to regard any instruction from man or book but Gods immediat inspiration which speakes secretly to our hearts for which they alleadge those comfortable words of the prophet I will hear what my Lord my God speakes in me for say they the book which we call Scripture is a creature and we must not seeke for light and instruction from any creature but from God the Father of Lights This is Scripture as interpreted by men of sound judgment any Child of the Reformation may believe it Ismael I thought to settle my mind in my choyce of som Religion and you go the way to beate me from all for if you renvers the authority of Scripture what warrant shall wee haue for any Religion God forbid the Reformation should deny the true Canon or the infallible truth of Scripture and let all the world say the contrary I will constantly revere and believe it's Gods infallible
mind to spend your monies because he preaches the Doctrin of the Reformation or you may laugh at him and believe not a word he saies because he preachs against the Doctrin of the Reformation Ismael These are dangerous and scandalous Tenets destructive of piety and Christianity and let Luther and those Authors you quoted say what they please the Reformation nor no honest man will ever believe such abominable Doctrin Isaac J do not say that the Children of the Reformation are obliged to believe them they may believe as you do that all are wicked Tenets but if Luther and the others cited judge in their conscience these Tenets to be the Doctrin of scripture and if Peter John or James like their interpretation I say they may according the Principles of our Reformation believe them and be as truly Reformed Children as you for our Rule of faith is Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it and in believing those Tenets because they judge them to be the Doctrin of scripture they stick fast to and follow our Rule of faith why is Figurative Presence and the kings supremacie the Doctrin of the Reformation tho denied by Papists Lutherans and Presbyterians but because the Protestants judge its the Doctrin of scripture if therefore those great Authors I quoted and any other with them judge those Tenets to be the Doctrin of Scripture they can be justly called the Doctrin of the Reformation must Protestants be forced against their judgments to deny Real Presence and supremacy because Lutherans say its wicked Doctrin and why must Luther Jlliticus Flaccius and others be forced to deny those Tenets tho Protestants or Papists judge them to be damnable I let each one believe what he thinks to be the Doctrin of Scripture and he will still be a true Reformed Child Ismael Does not our Reformation teach that it 's possible to all men assisted with Gods Grace to keep the Commandments Isaac This is the Doctrin of the Church of England and consequently of the Reformation It 's also the Doctrin of the Reformation delivered out of Scripture as interpreted by Luther Calvin Willet and several others that its impossible to any man assisted with what Grace soever to keep the Commandments None has euer yet saies our great Calvin and God has decreed none shall ever keep the Commandments Again The law and Commandments were giuen vs to no other end but that we should be damn'd by them in as much as that it is impossible for vs to do what they command The same Doctrin is taught by Luther in several places of his Works by Willet and by our Brethren the Gomarists of Holland and many of our french Synods Believe which you please both Doctrins are of the Reformation Jt's also the Doctrin of Luther and Calvin that God does not cast men into hell because their sins deserve it nor save men because they merit it but meerly because he will have it so He crowns those who have not deserved it saies Luther and he punishes those who have not deserved it t is Gods wrath and seuerity to damn the one 't is his Grace and mercy to saue the other Calvin also Men are damn'd for no other cause but because God will have it so he is the cause and author of their damnation their damnation is decreed by God when they are in their Mother's womb because he will have it so this is also the belief of our Gomarists in Holland of many french Churchs and of several learned Calvinists tho the Church of England denies this Doctrin none will dare say it s not the Doctrin of the Reformation because its Scripture as interpreted by such Eminent men of our Church Ismael J will neuer believe such execrable Doctrins nor will J euer be of any Congregation which believes them Isaac J do not advise you to believe them but to giue others leaue to believe them if they think them to be the Doctrin of Scripture as Luther Calvin Willet Gomarists and others do you must not if you be a true Reformed Child hinder any man from believing nor be displeased with him for believing what he judges in his conscience to be the Doctrin of Scripture for this is our Rule of faith Will not you be of the Congregation and Religion of those who follow Scripture as their Rule of faith and Believe what they judge in their conscience to be the Doctrin of Scripture Ismael Yes J will and am of such a Congregation for this is the Rule of faith of the Reformation Isaac Why then you must be of the same Congregation with the Gomarists Luther Calvin and the others who believe those which you call execrable Doctrins because they follow Scripture as they vnderstand and believe those Doctrins because they judge them to be of Scripture you both follow the same Rule one goes one way and the other an other and both are of the Reformation The Church of England vnderstands by Scripture that God is not the Author nor cause of sin that he does not force vs to sin who doubts but that this is there fore the Doctrin of the Reformation But Calvin Brentius Beza and several others vndestand by Scripture that God is the cause and author which forces our Will to sin that man and the deuil are but Gods instruments to commit it that murthers incests blasphemies c are the works of God that he makes vs commit them and who doubts but this also is the Doctrin of the Reformation being Scripture as interpreted by such eminent and sound judgments God saies Calvin directs moues inclins and forces the Will of man to sin in so much that the power and efficacy of working is wholy in him man nay and satan when he impells vs Being only Gods instruments which he vses for to make vs sin Zuinglius Willet Beza teach the same VI. DIALOGUE ISMAEL J am weary of hearing such horrid blasphemies my heart trembles to heare you say that such abominable Tenets may be believed according our Rule of faith and Principles of our Reformation I beseech you let me hear no more of such stuff J conceive very well that mens judgments and consciences are not to be constrain'd to believe or deny this or that Tenet because the Pope or his infaillable forsooth Church wil have it so Isaac and must they be constrain'd to deny or believe because the fallible Church of England or France will have it so Ismael No J do not say they must have patience and heare me speake a whyle J say that Scripture must be our Rule of faith and not any Pope or Church or Congregation and that wee are no to be forced by any to believe but what wee vnderstand to be true by Scripture and that if wee judge by Scripture any Doctrin to be fals and contrary to Gods Word wee must not be forced to believe it but wee must not abuse this
interpreted by the Pope and CoÌ„ciâ— my Religion must be Scripture as intâ—preted by the Lutheran Church aâ— no other my judgment and Conscieâ— therefore is as much constrained as tâ— of the Papist and our separation frâ— Popery will com to be but an exchanâ— of one slavery for another in thâ— our judgments and Consciences wâ— slaves to the Pope and Councils â— this we are slaves to the Lutheâ— Church We became a Reformatâ— by shaking of the yoke of Popâ— from our judgments and leaving thâ— free for to belieue Scripture as wâ— the assistance of Gods spirit each oâ— best vnderstands it and if we â— continue a Reformation we must â— submit again our judgments to aâ— other but retain that blessed liberâ— we recouered for to belieue the Teâ— of any Congregation I confess this â—bertie is not allowed by any one pâ—ticular Congregation as you obserâ— but you must also grant me that â— allowed taken by the whole bodâ— of the Reformation for in this whoâ— body as it comprehends Protestants Lutherans Presbyterians c. one CoÌ„gregation believes what the other denies and in any of them a man may live with a safe Conscience which you will not denie therefore any man has full libertie for to believe or deny with a safe Conscience the Tenets of any Congregation hence it follows and to my grief I speake it that no particular Congregation be it of England France or Germanie has the true spirit of the Reformation in doting so much vpon their particular Tenets as to thinke they cannot be as well denied as believed and in looking vpon them with so passionat eys as to censure check and force others to believe them you shall see by this discourse that the true spirit of the Reformation is not in any one particular Congregation separatly taken from the rest for each particular Congregation constrains as much as it can all people to believe its own Tenets Protestancy would have vs all to be Protestants and would root Lutherans out of the world as well as Popery Lutherans would if they could draw all to their own Nett Presbytery esteems itself to be the best of all would crush Protestancy if it could This then iâ— the spirit of each particular Congregation a Limiting confining spirit to som particular Tenets with an exclusion of all others but looke on the whole Body of our Reformation aâ— it includes all Reformed Congregations distinct from Popery there iâ— a holy extension of spirit and libertie for to be either Lutherans Presbyteriants Protestans and any thing but Popery and whatever any Congregation may say of an other but all vnanimously agree that the spirit of the Lord is in the whole body of the Reformation since therefore that in this whole Body there is a latitude libertie for to profess divers and oppositâ— Tenets and that each Tenet is believed by one and denied by others we must grant that this holy libertie for to believe or deny any Tenets we please is the true spirit of our holy reformation It 's not therefore to be wisht as you do that I should stick to any one particular Congregation or Tenets for such a restriction is meer Popery and your bemoaning the multiplicity of our Congregations is profane and Popish No it s a blessing of the Lord vpon our Reformation for which we shall never sufficiently thank him that we see it divided into so many Godly branches In the house of my father said Christ there are many mansions Joan. 14.2 Ismael By your discourse you seem to allow that we may with a safe conscience change Religions as often as we please and be to day a Protestant to morrow à Lutheran next day a Presbyterian and so run ouer all Isaac I know you will be startl'd at my answer for J am not ignorant that all men apprehend it to be absurd to change run ouer so many religions but truth must be declared though it may seem a scandal to the Iews and a folly to the Gentils It s therefore the Doctrin of the Reformation that we may with a safe conscience be to day Protestanrs to morrow Lutherans in France Hugonots in Hungarie Antitrinitarians in Poland Socinians ad in London of any Religion but Popery Ismael For shame you fouly imposâ— vpon the Reformation ther 's not anâ— Congregation that teachs such à scandalous and absurd Doctrin Isaac By your favor I loue thâ— Reformation as the apple of my eye and will never yield to any in my zealâ— for its honor and doctrin J am so faâ— from imposing upon it that I will evidence your error in denying this to bâ— its Doctrin and it will appear thaâ— whoever will deny it to be very lawful to change Religions as time and occasion requires must renounce the besâ— and fundamental Principles of our Reformation must impiously condemâ— the practise of our first Reformers Ismael How will you make it ouâ— that this Doctrin is grounded vpoâ— the fundamental Principles of our Reformation wheras there is not onâ— Congregation of ours but abhorrs it Isaac Sr. You may well perceive by the tenor of my discours that J am piously and charitably iealous with each particular Congregation thaâ— my drift is to shew that each of them none excepted swerves from and transgresses against the true spirit and solid Principles of the Reformation as wiâ—l further appear in this discours It s vâ—contestedly true that the Rule of faith of the Reformation is Scripture as the humble of heart assisted with the spirit of the Lord vnderstands it for Lutherans will never admit their Rule of faith to be Scripture as interpreted by the Church of England but as interpreted by themselves nor will England admit Scripture to be their Rule of faith as it is interpreted by the Presbyterians but as interpreted by the Church of England so that the Doctrin of each Congregation is but Scripture as interpreted by them and wheras all these Congregations joyntly compose the whole Body of the Reformation and each Congregation is truly a member of the Reformation the Doctrin of the Reformation coms to be Scripture as each Congregation and person of sound judgment in the Reformation saies the Church of England in her 39. Artic. interprets it This being an vncoÌ„trouled truth what man of euer so sound a judgment but may read to day Scripture as interpreted by the Lutheran Church and judge in his conscience that interpretation and Doctrin to be true consequently he may with a safe conscience profess that Religion soon after he may meet Calvins bookes charm'd with the admirable strength of his reasons and glosses vpon Scripture he may judge in his conscience he is to be preferr'd beforre Luther and so may lawfully forsake Lutheranism for Calvinism then again he hits vpon Scripture as interpreted by the Church of England whose Doctrin ravish's him with that decencie of Ceremonies that majesty of her lyturgie that harmonie of her Hieraâ—chie
any of our synods Did any teach that we may with a safe conscience change our Religion as you say Isaac Yes I can the Synod of Charenton in France held about the yeare 1634. expresly saies that for your salvation it s all alike whether you be a Calvinist Lutheran or of any other Congregation of the Reformed because says this Venerable synod they all agree in fundamental points and the Lutherans haue nothing of superstition or Idolatrie in their manner of divin worship Change then as often as you list be a Lutheran be a Presbyterian be an Anabaptist by the mouth of this synod you are assured you 'l never miss to hit right And I pray can any synod of our times haue more authoritie in point of Doctrin than Luther our first Reformer a man extraordinarily raised by God says the synod of Charenton and replenisht with his spirit for to repaire the ruins of his Church He teachs the elevation of the sacrament is Idolatrie yet he did practise iâ— and commanded it should be practised iâ— the Church of Wittemberg to spâ—te thâ— Deuil Carolstadius Giuing you tâ— vnderstand that for just reasons yoâ— may teach now one Religion noâ— an other Zuinglius also whose virtuâ— and Learning is knowen to the work says that God inspired him to preacâ— what Doctrin was suitable to the times which as it often changes you maâ— often change your Doctrin and consider you if it be not therefore thaâ— Christ our lord saies his yoke is sweâ—â— his burden light that is Religioâ— because we can withdraw our Neâ—â— from it as time and just reason requires Ismael Could you giue me any sâ—nod of the Church of England whicâ— deliuers this Doctrin you would gâ— neere hand to convince me for thâ— som particular Doctors should hauâ— taught or practis'd it does not provâ— it to be the Doctrin of the Reformation Isaac And what greater authoritiâ— has a synod of England for to provâ— a Doctrin to be of the Reformation than a synod of France which I have produced Or than Luther and Zuinglius our first Reformers inspired by God to teach vs the puritie of the Ghospel Was it not from Luther and Zuinglius that England receiued the Doctrin of the Reformation and if England be so bold as to say they erred in this what assurance can we haue but that they erred in the rest But since nothing will please you but a synod of England you shall haue not one but many Can there be any synod in England of so great authoritie as our wise and prudent Parliaments Read our Chronicles and you 'l find that in few years time they changed and established different Religions by publick acts of Parliament In Henry the 8. Reigne they voted for Popery and made Acts and Statuts against the Reformation In Edward the 6. time they banisht Popery and voted for Zuinglianism In Queen Mary's they pull'd down this and sett vp Popery again In Queen Elizabeths they decryed this and set vp not Zuinglianism but Protestancy in the midst of her reign they polisht this and added som new perfections to it In King James and succeeding kings times Protestancy is of a different stamp from that of Queen Elizabeths Heare Doue in his Exhort to the English Recusants an 1603. pag. 31. Henry the 8 had his Lyturgie which was very good Edward the 6. condemned it and brought in an other composed by Peter Martir and Bucer in Elizabeths time that was condemned and an otheâ— approued and in the middle of her reign her Lyturgy was also misliked and â— new one introduced we are so wantâ—â— that nothing will coÌ„tent vs but novelties Ismael Doue does not commenâ— this Doctrin for he calls that frequent exchange of Religion Wantonness and loue of noueltie Isaac It s no great matter what he says of it my drift is but to convince you that this is the Doctrin practise of the best Members of our Reformation euen of England and if you be convinc't its the Doctrin of the Reformation you cannot deny but that it is good Doctrin if Doue calls it wantonness S. Paul Ephes 4.22 Coloss 3.9 Rom. 6.6 commends it and exhorts vs to put of the old man with its deeds that 's Popery with its ceremonies and put on the new man that 's the Reformation where ther 's neither Greek nor Iew Circumcision nor Incircumcision Barbarian or Scythian bound or free but Christ is all and in all that 's to say where ther 's no distinction of Protestants or Presbyterians Socinians or Arians it s all one which Religion you profesâ— Ismael But is there no Tenet of Religion which we are all indispensably obliged to hold Isaac Yes there is and no more but one we are bound to have faith in Iesus Christ son of God and Saviour of the world This is the substance of Christian Religion be an Arian be a Presbyterian be a Socinian or what you please be also plung'd to your ears in wickedness of life and manners so you have faith in Jesus Christ son of God and Redeemer of the world and live in charitie you will be a member of the true Church and be saved Do not imagin this is any new Doctrin invented by me search the vulgar sort of our Reformed Brethren you shall get thousands of this opinion in our Realm search the Books of our Learned Drs you shall find it in them also Dr Morton in his much applauded booke dedicated to Queen Elizabeth for which he deserved a Bishoprick says The Arian Curch is to be esteemed a true Church because they hold the true substance of Christian ReligioÌ„ which is faith in Iesus Christ son of God and Redeemer of the world and again in the same place sect 4. whose Title is Heretics are members of the Church he says whosoeuer believes in Iesus Christ tho by wickedness of life or Heresy in Doctrin they should err in Doctrin they are still true Members of the Church Therefore our learnd Fox Doctor Fieldâ— and Illiricus say the Greek Church notwithstanding their error in denying the Procession of the H. Ghost from the son are holy members of the true Church because they have faith in Jesus Christ Ismael Sure you will not say this Doctrin is of the Reformation or can be safely believed Isaac I do admire how you can doubt of it and that it may be believed for what is the Doctrin of the Reformation but as we have said in our Principles Scripture as interpreted by any man of sound judgement in the Church and were not Doctor Morton Fox Field and Illiricus men of sound judgement eminent Learning and Godlines if-therefore this be Scripture as interpreted by them how can you deny it to be the Doctrin of the Reformation Ismael And what Jesus Christ are we obliged to believe in for Jesus Christ as believed by the Arians Socinians Luther and Calvin is far different from Jesus Christ as
in the Catholic Doctrin of the Church of England pag. 103. which is but an exposition of the 39. Articles Our Rule of faith is but Scripture as each Person of sound judgment in the Church vnderstands it Authority is given to the Church and to each person of sound judgment in it to judge in Controversies of faith and this is not the privat judgment of our Church but also of our Brethren of forreign Countries Ismael J confess not only these but many other Drs abet your discourse and the General Vogue of our Reformation is for Scripture as each one vnderstands it but alas you see well that wee can never settle any Religion or Church by such a Rule of faith Isaac You can never settle any but rhis That every man may without leâ— or hinderance believe what he please and why should not this be a good Religion if Scripture as each one vnderstands it be not our Rule of faith if we must be constrained to believe Scripture not as wee vnderstand it but as it is vnderstood by this or that Congregation whâ— difference betwixt vs and Papists They must believe Scripture as interpreted by the Pope and Councilâ— have ever so much light from God be ever so wise and witty you muâ— depose your own judgment aâ— submit to that of the Pope Counciâ— and Popish Church to this pass â— are come also wee must believe tâ— kings supremacie Episcopacy Fâ—gurative presence tho perhaps we dâ— not judge by Scripture it be trâ— Doctrin wee are constrained by Penal laws and Acts of Parliament tâ— believe them as Papists by the Inquisition and why because thâ— Church of England vnderstands bâ— Scripture its true and if you replâ— you do not interpret Scripture sâ— you 'l not be heard you must submiâ— and believe against your judgment and what 's this but plain Popish Tyrany ouer mens consciences Did Luther and Calvin forsake the Pope and Councils for to submit their judgments to any other No but to follow Scripture as each one of them vnderstood it and tho Luther was a man raysed by God and replenisht with his spirit to repair the ruins of the Church yet Calvin did no more submit to him than Luther did to the Pope nor did Zuinglius submit to Calvin but followed his own sense of Scripture nor did Oecolampadius submit to Zuinglius but every one searched the Scripture believed and taught what they thought to be true and thus we became a Reformation of Popery if therefore we will continue a Reformation and walk by the spirit of our first blessed Reformers wee must not be constrained to believe any mans sense of Scripture we must believe whateuer we think to be true and have no other Rule of faith but Scripture as each one vnderstands it Ismael And what then what do you inferr from this discourse Isaac This consequence that wheras no true Child of the Reformation be he of what Congregation you will can justly deny our Rule of faith to be Scripture as any Person of sound judgment interprets it it follows vnauoidably that the Doctrin of the Reformation is Whatever any Person of sound judgment interprets to be the true sense of Scripture and whatever Luther Calvin Beza or any other of sound judgment in the Reformation since its first ryse vntill this day taught to be the true sense of Scripture is to be called and esteemed the Doctrin of the Reformation tho to others of this or that Congregation it may seem to be wicked and scandalous Doctrin And now let me answer to an objection you made against this Principle in our entrance to this discourse you objected that many Papish Drs and Casuists delivered scandalous and base Doctrins which the Papists will not admit to be the Doctrin of their Church tho deliverd by Papish Drs and thence you pretended that the particular sentiments of privat Drs of the Reformation are not to be called the Doctrin of our Church But be pleased to observe the difference betwixt Popery and our Reformation the Rule of faith in Popery is Scripture as interpreted by the Pope and Council or their Church they will admit no other consequently no Doctrin is to be called Popery but what is judged by the Pope and his Church or Council to be the sense of Scripture and if any Dr or Universitie holds any sense contrary to theirs it is to be called the Doctrin of that particular person and not the Doctrin of the Popish Church because their Rule of faith is not Scripture as interpreted by any Person of sound judgment but as interpreted by their Pope and Council But wheras our Rule of faith in the Reformation is Scripture as each person of sound judgment interprets it whatever Doctrin or sense is said by any man to be of Scripture is justly to be called the Doctrin of the Reformation for example Melancton a man of sound judgment great learning and of an vpright conscience taught Bigamy to be the Doctrin of scripture Beza taught the Lords supper might be administer'd in any kind of victuals as well as in bread and wine Calvin taught that Christ despaired on the Cross and suffered the pains of hell after his death why then let all the Bishops and Universities of England condemn this Doctrin let all the Synods of France and Germany decry it the Doctrin will be still of the Reformation because its Scripture as interpreted by men of sound judgment Ismael The heate of your discourse has tyred you and my memorie iâ— sufficiently loaden with what yoâ— have said let me digest it in my privat retirement and wee will meeâ— again Isaac Content carrie with yoâ— these three points which I have proved convincingly first our Rule of faith is Scripture not as interpreted by this or that but by anâ— man of sound judgment secondly iâ— follows hence that the Doctrin of thâ— Reformation must be and ought to be called whatever any man of sound judgment saies is the sense of scripture thirdly it follows wee may change Religions as often as wee please III. DIALOGUE ISMAEL I remember well the summary of your last discourse given me in three points and I find the second to be absurd and repugnant to reason you 'l neuer perswade it tho you have pleaded for it with great energy what if a silly Woman Cobler or other tradesman reade Scripture and giue their sense of it that forsooth must be called the Doctrin of the Reformation and it shall be lawfull for them to believe it against the Doctrin of the whole Church Isaac Do not limit Gods infinit goodness by measuring his mercies towards his Creatures with your narrow apprehensions take notice he saies he has chosen the weake and contemptible of the world for to confound the strong ones I confess vnto you Father that you have hid thesâ— things from the wise and prudent and hast revealed them to the little ones And therefore he choosed poore simple
Scripture alone as their Rule of faith without any regard of the Pope Church Councils or Fathers The Church of Rome proud and impatient of any opposition condemned them as Hereticks for not submitting their judgments to her for takeing Scripture as they vnderstood it and not as the Church and Councils vnderstood it for their Rule of faith and if this be a crime wee are as guiltie as they wee are equally nocent or innocent wee are both Hereticks or none is wee are therefore concern'd in their honor and ought to defend the integrity of their procedure against the Common enemy which is the Popeâ— they were Reformers of the Church in their times as wee are in ours and wheras thy have the same Rulâ— of faith so they have the same Religion with the Reformation Ismael Then you will say Ariâ—nism is the Doctrin of the Reformâ—tion and wee may lawfully believe iâ— Isaac I say God's Unitie in Nature and Trinity in Persons is thâ— Doctrin of the Reformation becausâ— the Protestant Lutheran and Hâ—gonot Church judge by Scripture iâ— is true and if you judge also bâ— Scripture it s the true Doctrin yoâ— may believe it I say also if yoâ— judge by Scripture this Mystery is not true you may safely deny it according the Principles of the Reformation and be still as good a member of the Reformed Church as they who believe it for whoeuer believes what he judges by Scripture to be true is a true Reformed and that the denyal of the Trinitie is as much the Doctrin of the Reformation as the belief of it it appears not only because it was the Doctrin of the Arians who as I proved are truly of the Reformed Church but because it was taught by the greatest Ligths of our Church Calvin saies the text My Father is greater than I must be vnderstood of Christ not only as he is Man but also as he is God And that the Council of Nice did abuse the text My Father and I are one for to prove the Vnity of both in Nature wheras it only signifies their Vnity by conformity of Will Again he saies Epist 2. ad Polon in tract Theol. pag. 796. That prayer Holy Trinity one God have mercy of vs is barbarous and does not please me And ads The son has his own substance distinct from the Father His Disciple Danaeus saies it s a foolish insipid prayer and our great Apostle Luther who as Fox witnesseth was the Chariot and conductor of Israel and a man extraordinarily raised and replenisht with Gods spirit to teach the purity of the Ghospel caused that prayer to be blotted out of the Litanies That word Trinity saies he sounds coldly my soule hates that word Homousion and the Arian did well in not admitting it Lastly Ochinus that great Oracle of England impugns this Mysterie with a strong discourse Wee are not obliged to believe saies he more than the Saints of the Ancient Testament otherwise our condition would be worse than theirs but they were not obliged to believe this Mystery therefore we are not obliged Examin I pray the works of these eminent Drs. where I quote them consider if they be not not only men of sound judgment but men extraordinarily raised by God saies the Synod of Charenton the chariots and conductors of Israel saies Fox men to be reverenc'd after Christ saies our Dr Powel and Apostolical Oracles sent to teach vs the purity of the Ghospell and conclude it s an vndeniable Veritie that this is the Doctrin of the Reformation wheras it's Scripture as interpreted by such men O! but England France and Scotland believes this Mysterie well and what then that proves that the Mysterie is also the Doctrin of the Reformation because whateuer any Man of sound judgment thinks to be Scripture is its Doctrin but is England or France alone the whole Reformation are not Luther Caluin Danaeus Ochinus as well of the Reformation and men of as sound judgment as they since therefore they vnderstand by Scripture ther 's no Trinitie it s the Doctrin of the Reformation also that ther 's none believe it or deny it which you like best and you 'l be still of the Reformed Church Ismael By the Principle you run vpon you may say any blasphemy is the Doctrin of the Reformation for ther 's hardly any so execrable but som Dr of ours has delivered and taught it Isaac The Principle I run vpon is this Scripture as each Person of sound judgment interprets it is our Rule of faith judge you if that be not a good Principle in our Reformed Church wheras this is the Rule of faith given vs by the 39. Articles and generally by all our Drs as I proved in my first Dialogue this being our Rule of faith and Reformed Doctrin its evident that whatever Doctrin is judged by any Person of sound judgment to be contained in Scripture is the Doctrin of our Reformation som Persons of sound judgement say the Real Presence is expressed by Scripture this therefore is the Doctrin of the Reformation others say only Figurative Presence is taught in Scripture this also is the Doctrin of the Reformation som vnderstand by Scripture there is a Mysterie of the blessed Trinitie this therefore is the Doctrin of the Reformation others vnderstand ther 's no such Mysterie this also is the Doctrin of the Reformation so that whether you believe or deny this or any other Tenet controverted you 'l still hold the Doctrin of the Reformation Ismael Calvin saies Christ prai'd vnaduisedly the Eve of his Passion that he vttered words wherof he was afterward sorry that in his passion he was so troubled of all sides that ouerwhelm'd with desperation he desisted from invoking God which was to renunce all hopes of salvation And saies he if you object us absurd and scandalous to affirm Christ despaired I answer this desperation proceeded from him as he was man not as he was God And this is not only the Doctrin of Calvin but of Brentius Marlotus Jacobus Minister quoted by Bilson and of Beza will you say this is the Doctrin of the Reformation or that wee can without scruple believe it Also Calvin saies That Châ—ist's corporal death was not sufficient for to redeem vs but that after hauing despaired on the Cross he suffered the death of his soule that 's to say that his soule after his corporal death suffered the pains of the damn'd in hell And saies he in the same place they are but ignorant doltish brutish men who will deny it Luther also teachs the same Doctrin As he suffered with exceeding pains the death of the Body so it seems he suffered afterward the death of his soule in hell Epinus a learned Lutheran saies Christ descended into hell for thee and suffered not only corporal death but the death and fire of hell Mr. Fulk and Parkins avow this is also the express Doctrin
word Isaac How can you say I beate you from all Religion when I directly perswade you to follow the Rule of faith of our Reformation Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it let this be your Religion if you will be a true Reformed Whateuer you judge in your conscience to be true let the Church of England or France or any other say and believe what they will you are to believe but what you judge by scripture to be true and this is the Religion of the Reformation Ismael J would gladly know if it be lawfull to chop or change the text Isaac It 's the Doctrin of the Reformation that you cannot because God has forbid to add to or take away from his word and therefore wee condemn the Papists for their Traditions obtruded vpon the flock as the Word of God It 's also the Doctrin of the Reformation and the practise of our best Reformers when the text does not speake cleerly enough that for to refute Popery and establish our own Doctrin wee may add or diminish a word or two which is not to change the Word of God but to make it speake more expresly as when Luther had a mind to preach Iustification by faith alone finding the Text said but Man is justified by faith he added the word Alone and made the Text very cleer against Popery which formerly was somwhat obscure Zuinglius being to teach the Figurative presence of Christ in the Sacrament found the Text this is my Body to be too pat against his Doctrin and insteed of Is put in this signifieth The Church of England being to preach the kings Spiritual Supremacy could not convince the obstinat Papist by the Original text which saide 1. Pet. 2 submit yourselvts vnto every human creature for the Lord's sake whether it it be the king as excelling or to c. But in king Edwards time they altered one word and made the text thus submit yourselves to every Ordinance of man whether it be to the king as being the cheef head and the following impressions of the Bible the yeare 1557. and 79. saie To the king as supreame And so the true Ductrin is cleerly convinced out of Scripture as also the Lawfullness of Priests marriageâ— for the text before the Reformation said 1. Cor. 9 have not wee power to leade about a Woman sister and now our Bibles say have not wee power to leade about a Wife being our sister hence its evident according the Doctrine and practise of our Reformation that when you have a mind to establish a Doctrin which you judge to be true you may change the text and make it speake to your sense and meaning provided you judge your sense to be true Ismael What do you think of Iustifying faith does faith alone justify vs Isaac It 's the Doctrin of the Reformation that without charity it cannot because S. Paul saies 1. Cor. 13. if I have faith so as to move mountains and have no charity I am nothing It 's also the Doctrin of the Reformation that its impious and wicked to say faith alone without charity does not justify this is Scripture as interpreted by Luther a man of sound judgment Who say quoth Luther that faith alone tho perfect it be cannot justify without charitie say impiously and wickedly because faith alone without any good works doth justify Believe which Doctrin you please both are of the Reformation Ismael Luther was insolent in checking the Doctrin of S. Paul Isaac Probably he did not reflect that it was the Doctrin of the Apostle and if you will have it to be a check of S. Paul Luther will answer for himself Be it saies he that the Church Augustiâ— or other Drs also Peter and Paul nay and an Angel from heaven should teach otherwise than as I teach yet my Doctrin is such that it setteth forth Gods glory I know I teach no human but Divin Doctrin It 's the Doctrin of the Reformation that faith alone without any good works and notwithstanding all sins you are guiltie of doth justify you this is Scripture as interpreted by Luther who saies nothing can damn you but incredulity as nothing but faith can save you of Whitaker Wotten fulk and Beza whose words I related in our precedent Dialogue which J believe you remember and J need not repeat Jts also the Doctrin of the Reformation that good workes are meritorious of grace and glorie Hocker and Harmonia confess say its the Doctrin of scripture and what any Person of sound judgment judges to be the Doctrin of scripture he may believe it for this is our Rule of faith it s like wise the Doctrin generally of all our Church that good Works are not at all meritorious Tindal called by Fox a Man of God and a constant Martyr judges this to be so true that in his treatise de Mammona iniquitatis he saies Christ himself did not by all his good Works merit the glory and tho the scripture saies expresly he did Calvin affirms that its a foolish curiosity to examin and a rash proposition to say Christ did merit Jt's the Doctrin of the Reformation that tho good works be not meritorious nor have not the least influence in our justification or salvation yet they are absolutly needfull for both in as much as that true faith cannot be without good Works because they are the marks and signs of a living faith by which alone wee are saved this is the judgment of the Church of England expressed in the 11. and 12. Article of the 39. and of Melancton in locis Commun de Bonis operibus and you may believe it You may also believe and its the Doctrin of the Reformation that good Works are so farr from being needfull that they are prejudicious and hurtfull to our salvation and the best way to be saved is to do no good Work at all this is scripture as interpreted by Jlliricus Flaccius Amsdorfius quoted in Act. Colloq Aldeburg pag. 205. and 299. and Luther was so deeply perswaded of this truth that tho Christ said If â—hou wilt enter into the kingdom of heaven keep the Commandments Luther saies it s an obstacle to our Salvation to keep them Where it is said quoth he that faith in Christ doth indeed justify vs but that it is necessary also to keep the Commandements there Christ is denied and faith abolisht because that which is proper to faith alone is attributed to the Commandements And again saies he if faith be-acompanied with good Works it s â—o true faith that it may justifie it must be alone without any good Works This is Scripture as interpreted by such Eminent and sound men and consequently the Doctrin of the Reformation and who doubts but that any Doctrin of the Reformation may be believed Hence forward when you hear the preacher exhort you to good Works you may believe him if you please and have a
dirt vpon his Church the honest Quaker will say I am a profane man others perhaps will say I am of no Religion but a despiser of all and our Congregations are so vncharitable that likely none will accept of me because I say all religions are very good a sad thing that a man must be hated for speaking well of his neighbours and that each one must have all the world to be naught but himself this then is my Religion To suffer persecution for justice and truth to render good for evil to bless those who curse me and speake well of all congregations whylst they speake all evil against me reflect well vpon what J discoursed hitherto and you will find J am as great a louer of the Reformation as they who may think me its enemie and reade my following discourse and you will find I loue Popery as well as the Reformation the Spirit of God makes no exception of Persons Ismael You promised to proue by the Principles of the Reformation that wee may believe all the Tenets of Popery and remain still of the Reformation how can this be Isaac You remember I excepted one Principle of Poperie wherin you must necessarily dissent from them and if you deny this one Principle you may believe all their others Tenets as well as the Pope and be as â—ood a Child of the Reformation as Luther Ismael What Principle is this which you seem to make the only distinctive sign of a Reformed from a Papist Isaac Listen a whyle a Papist is not a Papist because he believes Purgatory Transubstantiation Indulgences and the rest of Popish Tenets but because he believes them vpon the testimonie of the Pope and Church because they assure him they are revealed Truths if a Papist did say J believe these Tenets because I myself do judge by scripture that they are revealed and not because the Pope and Church say they are he would be no Papist The Papist believes the Mystery of the Trinity the Incarnation and passion of Christ the Protestant believes the same Mysteries yet the one is a Papist and no Protestant the other is a Protestant and no Papist And why because the Papist believes them vpon the testimonie of the Pope and Church the Protestant believes them vpon the testimony of Gods Written Word believe then whatever you please of Popery provided you believe it because you judge by Scripture its true and not because the Pope or the Church sayes it you 'l never be a Papist but a perfect Reformed Ismael If this discourse be solid you may hedge in all the Articles of Popery into our Reformation Isaac If you peruse the works of our Reformed Drs you 'l hardly find any Article of Popery but has been judged by many or som of our best Reformed Drs to be the true Doctrin of scripture and wheras any Doctrin which any Person of sound judgment vnderstands by scripture to be true may be justly called the Doctrin of the Reformation it follows that hardly is there any Article of Popery for which wee see so many persecutions againsts subjects and such troubles in our Parliaments but is truly the Doctrin of the Reformation Ismael Shew me som examples of this Isaac The Veneration of Relicks and Saints dead bones is generally believed by vs to be meer Popery and superstition therefore wee made no store of Luther and Calvins bones tho wee know them to be as great Saints as any in the Popish Church but Veneration of Relicks and Saints bones is the Doctrin of our Reformation for whatever is set down and commended by our Common Prayer book must be vndoubtedly esteemed our Reformed Doctrin and practice and our common Prayer book printed since our Kings happy restauration in its Kalender sets down a day to the Translation of S. Edward king of Saxons Body in the month of June and dedicats an other to the translation of the Bodies of S. Martin and Swithin in the month of July The Veneration and vse of the Sign of the Cross is flat Popery in the judgment of all our Congregations yet any Reformed Child may laudably and piously vse it wheras our Common Prayer Book in the Administration of Baptism commands the Minister to vse it saying Wee sign him with the sign of the Cross in token that heerafter he shall not be ashamed to confess the faith of Christ crucified and manfully to fight vnder his banner against Sin the world and the Deuil And in our kalender printed since his Majesti's restauration it s called the Holy Cross Our Congregations generally believe its Popery to keep Holy daies except the Sabboth day and Saints daies to fast Lent Vigils commanded Emberdays and fridaies and all this is recommanded to vs in our Common Prayer book and the Minister is commanded in the Administration of the Lords Supper to publish the Holy daies of the week and exhort vs to fast and surely he is not commanded to teach or exhort vs to any thing but to the Doctrin of the Reformation It 's true the Students of our Colledges of Oxford and Cambridge are much troubled with scruples in this point these Pauperes de Lugduno are compelled to fast all fridays throughout the yeare and it s not hungar that makes them complain but tenderness of Conscience because they feare its Popery It 's a Popish error wee say to believe that Pennance or our penal works of fasting almsdeeds or corporal austerities can auaile and helpe for the remission of our Sins and satisfying Gods Justice No we say penal works serue for noting all is don by Repentance that 's to say by sorrow of heart for having offended God This is the Doctrin of Danaeus Willet Junius and Calvin who saies Francis Dominick Bernard Antony and the rest of Popish Monks and Fryars are in hell for their austerities and penal Works for all that you may very well believe and its the Doctrin of the Reformation that Pennance and Penal Works do auaile for the remission of our sins and are very profitable to the soule for our Common Prayer booke in the Commination against sinners saies thus In the Primitive Church there was a godly Disciplin that at the beginning of Lent such as were notorious Sinners were put to open pennance and punisht in this world that their soules may be saued in the day of the Lord. And our Common Prayer booke wishes that this Disciplin were restored again and Surely it does not wish that Popery were restored therefore it s no Popery to say that Pennance or penal Works do satisfy for our sins in this world and auaile to save vs in the other Ismael I know many of our Congregations mislike much our Common Prayer booke for these Popish Tenets but what do you say of the grand errors of Popery can a man be a true Child of the Reformation and yet believe the Popes Supremacy deny the kings supremacy believe Transubstantiation and Communion in one kind are these