MERCY TRVTH OR CHARITY MAINTAYNED by Catholiques By way of Reply vpon an Answere lately framed by D. POTTER to a Treatise which had formerly proued That CHARITY was MISTAKEN by Protestants With the want whereof Catholiques are vniustly charged for affirming That Protestancy vnrepented destroyes SALVATION Deuided into tvvo Parts Mercy and Truth haue met togeather Psalm 84. v. 11. Better are the wounds of him that loueth then the fraudulent kisses of him that hateth Prou. cap. 27. v. 6. We loue you Brethren and desire the same things for you which we doe for our selues S. Aug. Ep. 166. Permissu Superiorum M.DC.XXXIIII TO THE MOST HIGH Mighty Iust and Clement Prince CHARLES King of Great-Brittaine France and Ireland c. THese Titles most gracious Soueraigne partly flovving from your Royall Authority and partly appropriated to your Sacred Person haue by their happy coniunction emboldened me to lay at your Princely Feet vvith most humble respects and profound submission this REPLY of mine to a Booke lately vvritten in obedience as the Author therof affirmes to your Maiesties particular Commaund For though your Regal Authority may seeme to be an Obiect of only Dread and Avve yet doth it not so much auert as inuite men to a confident approach vvhen it appeares so svvetly tempered and adorned vvith such rare Personall Qualities as your Maiesties are Iustice to all Clemency to euery one of your meanest Subiects VVisdome to discerne vvith quicknes depth and to determine vvith great maturity of Iudgment betvvene right and vvrong A Princely disdaine and iust indignation against the least dissimulation vvhich may be repugnant to the secret testimony of Conscience An heroicall Affection and euen as it vvere a naturall kind of sympathy vvith all Sincerity and Truth So that vvhen your Maiesty thought fit to impose a Commandement of vvriting vpon one I could not but conceiue it to be also your gracious Pleasure and Will that in Vertue of the same Royal Commaund others vvho are of contrary Iudgment vvere suffered at least if not obliged to ansvvere for themselues but yet vvith all due respect and Christian moderation Which I haue as carefully endeauoured to obserue as if I had vvritten by the expresse Commaund spoken in the Hearing and acted the part of Truth in the presence of so Great so Modest and so Iudicious a Monarch as your Maiesty is I vvas therfore supported by contemplation of these your rare Endovvments of Mind vvhich as they are the Happines of all your Subiects so vvere they no lesse a Hope to me that your Maiesty vvould not disdaine to cast an eie of Grace vpon this REPLY not according to the face of present times but vvith regard to the Plea's of Truth appearing in times more ancient and in places more diffused by the allegation of one vvho doth so cordially professe himselfe your Maiesties most humble subiect as that from the depth of a sincere hart and vvith all the povvers of his soule he vvishes that God be no longer mercifull and good to him and all your other Catholiques Subiects then they and he shall both in desire and deed approue themselues vpon all occasions sincerely Loyall to the most Excellent Person and thrice hopefull Issue of your Sacred Maiesty This our Catholique Religion teaches vs to professe and performe and heervvith I lay this poore Worke and prostrate the Author thereof at the Throne of your Royall Feet Your Maiesties most humble and most loyall Subiect I. H. Aduertisement of the Printer THis REPLY Good Reader vvas indeed long since finished by the Author but by reason of some impediment it could not be commodiously transported so soone as he vvished and desired it should TO THE READER GIVE me leaue good Reader to informe thee by way of Preface of three points The first concernes D. Potters Answere to Charity Mistaken The second relates to this Reply of mine And the third containes some Premonitions or Prescriptions in case D. Potter or any in his behalfe thinke fit to reioyne 2. For the first point concerning D. Potters Answere I say in generall A generall consideration of D. Potters Answere reseruing particulars to their prroper places that in his whole Booke he hath not so much as once truly and really fallen vpon the point in question which was Whether both Catholiques and Protestants can be saued in their seuerall professions And therefore Charity Mistaken iudiciously pressing those particulars wherein the difficultie doth precisely consist proues in generall that there is but one true Church that all Christiās are obliged to hearken to her that she must be euer visible and infallible that to separate ones selfe from her Communion is Schisme and to dissent from her doctrine is Heresie though it be in points neuer so few or neuer so small in their own nature and therefore that the distinction of points fundamentall and not fundamentall is wholy vaine as it is applied by Protestants These I say and some other generall grounds Charity Mistaken handles and out of them doth cleerely euince that any least difference in faith cannot stand with saluation on both sides and therefore since it is apparent that Catholiques and Protestants disagree in very many points of Faith they both cannot hope to be saued without repentance and consequently as we hold that Protestancy vnrepented destroies Saluation so must they also belieue that we cānot be saued if they iudge their own Religion to be true and ours to be false And whosoeuer disguizeth this truth is an enemy to soules which he deceiues with vngrounded false hopes of saluation indifferent Faiths and Religions And this Charity Mistaken performed exactly according to that which appeares to haue been his designe which was not to descend to particuler disputes as D. Potter affectedly does namely Whether or no the Romā Church be the only true Church of Christ and much lesse whether Generall Councels be infallible whether the Pope may erre in his Decrees common to the whole Church whether he be aboue a Generall Councell whether all points of fayth be contained in Scripture whether Fayth be resolued into the authority of the Church as into his last formall Obiect and Motiue and least of all did he discourse of Images Communion vnder both kinds publique Seruice in an vnknowne Tongue Seauen Sacraments Sacrifice of the Masse Indulgences and Index Expurgatorius all which and diuers other articles D. Potter as I said drawes by violence into his Booke he might as well haue brought in Pope loane or Antichrist or the Iewes who are permitted to liue in Rome which are common Themes for men that want better matter as D. Potter was forced to fetch in the aforsayd Controuersies that so he might dazle the eyes distract the mynd of the Reader and hinder him from perceiuing that in his whole Answere he vttered nothing to the purpose point in question which if he had followed closely I dare well say he might haue dispatched his whole
the soule depends And now because he shall not taxe me with being like those men in the Gospell whom our blessed Lord and Sauiour charged with laying heauy burdens vpon other mens shoulders who yet would not touch them with their finger I oblige my selfe to answere vpon any demaund of his both to all these Questions if he find that I haue not done it already and to any other concerning matter of faith that he shall aske And I will tell him very plainly what is Catholique doctrine and what is not that is what is defined or what is not defined and rests but in discussion among Deuines 22. And it will be heere expected that he performe these things as a man who professeth learning should doe not flying from questions which concerne things as they are considered in their owne nature to accidentall or rare circumstances of ignorance incapacity want of meanes to be instructed erroneous cōscience and the like which being very various and different cannot be well comprehended vnder any generall Rule But in deliuering generall doctrines we must consider things as they be ex naturarei or per se loquendo as Deuines speake that is according to their natures if all circumstances concurre proportionable thereunto As for example some may for a time haue inuincible ignorance euen of some fundamentall article of fayth through want of capacity instruction or the like and so not offend eyther in such ignorance or errour and yet we must absolutely say that errour in any one fundamentall point is damnable because so it is if we consider things in themselues abstracting from accidentall circumstances in particuler persons as contrarily if some man iudge some act of vertue or some indifferent action to be a sinne in him it is a sinne indeed by reason of his erroneous conscience and yet we ought not to say absolutely that vertuous or indifferent actions are sinnes and in all sciences we must distinguish the generall Rules from their particuler Exceptions And therefore when for example he answers to our demand whether he hold that Catholiques may be saued or whether their pretended errours be fundamentall and damnable he is not to change the state of the question and haue recourse to Ignorance and the like but to answere concerning the errours being considered what they are apt to be in themselues and as they are neyther increased nor diminished by accidentall circumstances 23. And the like I say of all the other points to which I once againe desire an answere without any of these or the like ambiguous termes in some sort in some sease in some degree which may be explicated afterward as strictly or largely as may best serue his turne but let him tell vs roundly and particulerly in what sort in what sense in what degree he vnderstands those the like obscure mincing phrases If he proceed solidly after this manner and not by way of meere words more like a Preacher to a vulgar Auditour then like a learned man with a pen in his hand thy patience shall be the lesse abused and truth will also receiue more right And since we haue already layed the grounds of the question much may be sayd heereafter in few words if as I sayd he keep close to the reall point of euery difficulty without wandring into impertinent disputes multiplying vulgar and threed-bare obiections and arguments or labouring to proue what no mā denies or making a vaine ostentation by citing a number of Schoolemen which euery Puny brought vp in Schooles is able to doe and if he cite his Authours with such sincerity as no time need be spent in opening his corruptions and finally if he set himselfe a worke with this consideration that we are to giue a most strict accompt to a most iust and vnpartiall Iudge of euery period line and word that passeth vnder our pen. For if at the later day we shall be arraigned for euery idle word which is spoken so much more will that be done for euery idle word which is written as the deliberation wherwith it passeth makes a man guilty of more malice and as the importance of the matter which is treated of in bookes concerning true fayth and religion without which no Soule can be saued makes a mans Errours more materiall then they would be if question were but of toyes A TABLE OF THE Chapters and Contents of this ensuing First Part of Reply CHAP. I. THE true state of the Question VVith a Summary of the Reasons for vvhich amongst men of different Religions one side only can be saued CHAP. II. VVhat is that meanes vvherby the reuealed truths of God are conueyed to our Vnderstanding and vvhich must determine Controuersies in Fayth and Religion CHAP. III. That the distinction of points fundamentall and not fundamentall is neither pertinent nor true in our present Controuersy And that the Catholique visible Church cannot erre in eyther kind of the sayd points CHAP. IIII. To say that the Creed containes all points necessarily to be belieued is neyther pertinent to the Question in hand nor in it selfe true CHAP. V. That Luther Caluin their associates and all vvho began or continue the separation from the externall Communion of the Roman Church are guilty of the proper and formall sinne of Schisme CHAP. VI. That Luther and therest of Protestants haue added Heresy to Schisme CHAP. VII In regard of the Precept of Charity tovvards ones selfe Protestants are in state of Sinne as long as they remaine separated from the Roman Church THE FIRST PART The State of the Question vvith a Summary of the reasons for vvhich amongst men of different Religions one side onely can be saued CHAP. I. NEVER is Malice more indiscreet then when it chargeth others with imputation of that to which it selfe becoms more liable euen by that very act of accusing others For though guiltines be the effect of some errour yet vsually it begets a kind of Moderation so far forth as not to let men cast such aspersions vpon others as must apparantly reflect vpon themselues Thus cannot the Poet endure Quis tulerit Gracchum c. that Gracchus who was a factious and vnquiet man should be inueighing against Sedition and the Roman Oratour rebukes Philosophers who to wax glorious superscribed their Names vpon those very Bookes which they entitled Of the contempt of glory What then shall we say of D. Potter who in the Title and Text of his whole Booke doth so tragically charge Want of Charity on all such Romanists as dare affirme that Protestancy destroyeth Saluation while he himselfe is in act of pronouncing the like heauy doome against Roman Catholiques For not satisfied with much vnciuil language in affirming the Roman Church many (a) Pag. 11. wayes to haue played the Harlot and in that regard deserued a bill of diuorce from Christ and detestation of Christians in stiling her that proud (b) Ibid. and curst Dame of Rome which takes vpon her to reuell in
light but rather his vnderstanding is by a necessity made captiue and forced not to disbelieued what is presented by so cleere a light And therefore your imaginary fayth is not the true fayth defined by the Apostle but an inuention of your owne 31. That the fayth of Protestants wanteth the third Condition which was Prudence Their faith wants Prudence is deduced from all that hitherto hath beene sayd What wisdome was it to forsake a Church cōfessedly very ancient and besids which there could be demonstrated no other visible Church of Christ vpon earth A Church acknowledged to want nothing necessary to Saluatiō endued with Succession of Bishops with Visibility and Vniuersality of Tyme and Place A Church which if it be not the true Church her enemies cannot pretend to haue any Church Ordination Scriptures Succession c. and are forced for their owne sake to maintaine her perpetuall Existence and Being To leaue I say such a Church frame a Community without eyther Vnity or meanes to procure it a Church which at Luthers first reuolt had no larger extent then where his body was A Church without Vniuersality of place or Tyme A Church which can pretend no Visibility or Being except only in that former Church which it opposeth A Church void of Succession of Persons or Doctrine What wisdome was it to follow such men as Luther in an opposition against the visible Church of Christ begun vpon meere passion What wisdome is it to receiue from Vs a Church Ordination Scriptures Personall Succession and not Succession of Doctrine Is not this to verify the name of Heresy which signifieth Election or Choyce Wherby they cannot auoid that note of Imprudency or as S. Augustine cals it Foolishnes set downe by him against the Manichees and by me recited before I would not sayth he belieue (r) Cont. ep Fund ç. 5. the Gospell vnles the Authority of the Church did moue me Those therfore whom I obeyed saying Belieue the Gospell why should I not obey the same men saying to me Do not belieue Manichaeus Luther Caluin c. Chuse what thou pleasest If thou say Belieue the Catholiques they warne me not to belieue thee Wherfore if I belieue them I cannot belieue thee If thou say Do not belieue the Catholiques thou shalt not do well in forcing me to the fayth of Manichaeus because by the Preaching of Catholiques I belieued the Gospell it selfe If thou say you did well to belieue them Catholiques commending the Gospell but you did not well to belieue them discommending Manichaeus dost thou thinke me so very FOOLISH that without any reason at all I should belieue what thou wilt and not belieue what thou wilt not Nay this holy Father is not content to call it Foolishnes but meere Madnes in these words Why should I not most diligently enquire (s) Lib. de vtil Cred. ç. 14. what Christ commaunded of those before all others by whose Authority I was moued to belieue that Christ commaunded any good thing Canst thou better declare to me what he said whom I would not haue thought to haue been or to be if the Beliefe therof had been recommended by thee to me This therfore I belieued by fame strengthned with Celebrity Consent Antiquity But euery one may see that you so few so turbulent so new can produce nothing which deserues Authority What MADNES is this Belieue them Catholiques that we ought to belieue Christ but learne of vs what Christ said Why I beseech thee Surely if they Catholiques were not at all and could not teach me any thing I would more easily perswade my selfe that I were not to belieue Christ then I should learne any thing concerning him from any other then those by whom I belieued him Lastly I aske what wisdome it could be to leaue all visible Churches and consequently the true Catholique Church of Christ which you confesse cannot erre in points necessary to saluation and the Roman Church which you grant doth not erre in fundamentalls and follow priuate men who may erre euen in points necessary to saluation Especially if we add that when Luther rose there was no visible true Catholique Church besides that of Rome and them who agreed with her in which sense she was is the only true Church of Christ and not capable of any Error in fayth Nay euen Luther who first opposed the Roman Church yet comming to dispute against other Heretiques he is forced to giue the Lye both to his owne words and deeds in saying We freely confesse (t) In epist cont Anab. ad duos Paerochos to 2 Germ. Witt. fol. 229. 230. that in the Papacy there are many good things worthy the name of Christian which haue come from them to vs. Namely we confesse that in the Papacy there is true Scripture true Baptisme the true Sacrament of the Aultar the true keyes for remission of sinnes the true Office of Preaching true Catechisme as our Lords Prayer Ten Commandements Articles of fayth c. And afterward I auouch that vnder the Papacy there is true Christianity yea the Kernel and Marrow of Christianity and many pious and great Saints And againe he affirmeth that the Church of Rome hath the true Spirit Gospells Fayth Baptisme Sacraments the Keyes the Office of Preaching Prayer Holy Scripture and whatsoeuer Christianity ought to haue And a litle before I heare and see that they bring in Anabaptisme onely to this end that they may spight the Pope as men that will receiue nothing from Antichrist no otherwise then the Sacramentaries doe who therefore belieue only Bread and Wine to be in the Sacrament meerely in hatred against the Bishop of Rome and they thinke that by this meanes they shall ouercome the Papacy Verily these men rely vpon a weake ground for by this meanes they must deny the whole Scripture and the Office of Preaching For we haue all these things from the Pope otherwise we must goe make a new Scripture O Truth more forcible as S. Augustine sayes to wring out (x) Contra Donat. post collat cap. 24. Confession then is any racke or torment And so we may truly say with Moyses Inimici nostri sunt Iudices Our very Enemies giue (y) Deut. c. 32. 31. sentence for vs. 32. Lastly since your fayth wanteth Certainty and Prudence it is easy to inferre that it wants the fourth Condition Supernaturality Their faith wants Supernaturality For being but an Humane persuasion or Opinion it is not in nature or Essence Supernaturall And being imprudent and rash it cannot proceed from diuine Motion and Grace and therefore it is neyther supernaturall in it selfe or in the Cause from which it procedeth 33. Since therefore we haue proued that whosoeuer erres agaynst any one point of faith looseth all diuine fayth euen concerning those other Articles wherein he doth not erre and that although he could still retayne true fayth for some points yet any one errour in whatsoeuer other matter concerning fayth is a grieuous sinne it cleerely followes that when two or more hold different doctrines concerning fayth and Religion there can be but one part saued For declaring of which truth if
the House of God in talking of an Idoll (c) Pag. 4. Edit 1. to be worshiped at Rome he comes at length to thunder out this fearefull sentence against her For that (d) Pag. 20 Masse of Errors saith he in iudgment and practise which is proper to her and wherein she differs from vs we iudge a reconciliation impossible and to vs who are conuicted in conscience of her corruptions damnable And in another place he saith For vs who (e) Pag. 81. are conuinced in conscience that she ers in many things a necessity lyes vpon vs euen vnder paine of damnation to forsake her in those Errors By the acerbity of which Censure he doth not only make himselfe guilty of that which he iudgeth to be a haynous offence in others but freeth vs also from all colour of crime by this his vnaduised recrimination For if Roman Catholikes be likewise conuicted in conscience of the Errours of Protestants they may and must in conformity to the Doctours owne rule iudge a reconciliation with them to be also damnable And thus all the Want of Charity so deeply charged on vs dissolues it selfe into this poore wonder Roman Catholiques belieue in their conscience that the Religion which they professe is true and the contrary false 2. Neuerthelesse we earnestly desire and take care that our doctrine may not be defamed by misinterpretation Far be it from vs by way of insultation to apply it against Protestants otherwise then as they are comprehended vnder the generality of those who are diuided from the only one true Church of Christ our Lord within the Communion whereof he hath confined saluation Neither do we vnderstand why our most deere Country men should be offended if the Vniuersality be particularized vnder the Name of Protestants first giuen (g) Sleïdan l. 6. fol. 84. to certaine Lutherans who protesting that they would stand out against the Imperiall decrees in defence of the Confession exhibited at Ausburge were termed Protestants in reguard of such their protesting which Confessio Augustana disclayming from and being disclaymed by Caluinists and Zuinglians our naming or exemplifying a generall doctrine vnder the particuler name of Protestantisme ought not in any particuler manner to be odious in England 3. Moreouer our meaning is not as misinformed persons may conceiue that we giue Protestants ouer to reprobation that we offer no prayers in hope of their saluation that we hold their case desperate God forbid We hope we pray for their Conuersion and sometimes we find happy effects of our charitable desires Neither is our Censure immediatly directed to particuler persons The Tribunall of particuler Iudgment is Gods alone When any man esteemed a Protestant leaueth to liue in this world we do not instantly with precipitation auouch that he is lodged in Hell For we are not alwayes acquainted with what sufficiency or meanes he was furnished for instruction we do not penetrate his capacity to vnderstand his Catechist we haue no reuelation what light might haue cleered his errours or Contrition retracted his sinnes in the last moment before his death In such particuler cases we wish more apparent signes of saluation but do not giue any dogmaticall sentence of perdition How grieuous sinnes Disobedience Schisme and Heresy are is well knowne But to discerne how far the naturall malignity of those great offences might be checked by Ignorāce or by some such lessening circumstance is the office rather of Prudence then of Faith 4. Thus we allow Protestants as much Charity as D. Potter spares vs for whom in the words aboue mentioned and else where he (h) See Pag. 39. makes Ignorāce the best hope of saluation Much lesse comfort can we expect from the fierce doctrine of those chiefe Protestants who teach that for many ages before Luther Christ had no visible Church vpon earth Not these men alone or such as they but euen the 39. Articles to which the English Protestant Clergy subscribes censure our beliefe so deeply that Ignorance can scarce or rather not at all excuse vs from damnation Our doctrine of Transubstantiation is affirmed to be repugnant to the plaine words of (i) Art 28. Scripture our Masses to be blasphemous (k) Art 31. Fables with much more to be seen in the Articles themselues In a certaine Confession of the Christian faith at the end of their bookes of Psalmes collected into Meeter and printed Cum priuilegio Regis Regali they call vs Idolaters and limmes of Antichrist and hauing set downe a Catalogue of our doctrines they conclude that for thē we shall after the General Resurrection be damned to vnquenchable fire 5. But yet lest any man should flatter himselfe with our charitable Mitigations and therby waxe careles in search of the true Church we desire him to reade the Conclusion of the Second Part where this matter is more explayned 6. And because we cannot determine what Iudgmēt may be esteemed rash or prudent except by weighing the reasons vpon which it is grounded we will heere vnder one aspect present a Summary of those Principles from which we infer that Protestancy in it selfe vnrepented destroyes Saluation intending afterward to proue the truth of euery one of the grounds till by a concatenation of sequels we fall vpon the Conclusion for which we are charged with Want of Charity 7. Now this is our gradation of reasons Almighty God hauing ordained Mankind to a supernaturall End of eternall felicity hath in his holy Prouidence setled competent and conuenient Meanes whereby that end may be attained The vniuersall grand Origen of all such meanes is the Incarnation and Death of our Blessed Sauiour whereby he merited internall grace for vs and founded an externall visible Church prouided and stored with all those helps which might be necessary for Saluation From hence it followeth that in this Church amongst other aduantages there must be some effectuall meanes to beget and conserue fayth to maintaine Vnity to discouer and condemne Heresies to appease and reduce Schismes and to determine all Controuersies in Religion For without such meanes the Church should not be furnished with helps sufficient to saluation not God affoard sufficient meanes to attayne that End to which himselfe ordained Mankind This meanes to decide Controuersies in fayth and Religion whether it should be the holy Scripture or whatsoeuer else must be indued with an Vniuersall Infallibility in whatsoeuer it propoundeth for a diuine truth that is as reuealed spoken or testifyed by Almighty God whether the matter of its nature be great or small For if it were subiect to errour in any one thing we could not in any other yield it infallible assent because we might with good reason doubt whether it chanced not to erre in that particuler 8. Thus farre all must agree to what we haue said vnlesse they haue a mind to reduce Faith to Opinion And euen out of these grounds alone without further proceeding it vndenyably followes that of two men dissenting in
of eternall damnation to be belieued and obeyed in some things wherin confessedly she is endewed with infallibility I cannot in wisdome suspect her credit in matters of lesse moment For who would trust another in matters of highest consequence and be afraid to rely on him in things of lesse moment Thirdly since as I said we are vndoubtedly obliged not to forsake her in the chiefest or fundamentall points and that there is no Rule to know precisely what and how many those fundamentall points be I cannot without hazard of my soule leaue her in any one point lest perhaps that point or points wherin I forsake her proue indeed to be fundamentall and necessary to saluation Fourthly that visible Church which can not erre in points fundamentall doth without distinction propound all her Definitions concerning matters of faith to be belieued vnder Anathema's or Curses esteeming all those who resist to be deseruedly cast out of her Communion and holding it as a point necessary to saluation that we belieue she cannot erre wherin if she speake true then to deny any one point in particuler which she defineth or to affirme in generall that she may erre puts a man into state of damnation Wheras to belieue her in such points as are not necessary to saluation can not endanger saluation as likewise to remaine in her Communion can bring no great harme because she cannot maintaine any damnable error or practise but to be deuided frō her she being Christs Catholique Church is most certainely damnable Fifthly the true Church being in lawfull and certaine possession of Superiority and Power to command require Obedience from all Christians in some things I cannot without grieuous sinne withdraw my obedience in any one vnles I euidently know that the thing commanded comes not within the compasse of those things to which her Power extendeth And who can better informe me how far God's Church can proceed then God's Church herselfe Or to what Doctor can the Children and Schoollers with greater reason and more security fly for direction then to the Mother and appointed Teacher of all Christians In following her I shall sooner be excused then in cleauing to any particuler Sect or Person teaching or applying Scriptures against her doctrine or interpretation Sixtly the fearefull examples of innumerable persons who forsaking the Church vpon pretence of her errours haue failed euen in fundamentall points and suffered ship wracke of their Saluation ought to deter all Christians from opposing her in any one doctrine or practise as to omit other both ancient and moderne heresies we see that diuers chiefe Protestants pretending to reforme the corruptions of the Church are come to affirme that for many Ages she erred to death and wholy perished which D. Potter cannot deny to be a fundamentall Errour against that Article of our Creed I belieue the Catholike Church as he affirmeth it of the Donatists because they confined the vniuersall Church within Afirica or some other small tract of soile Least therefore I may fall into some fundamentall errour it is most safe for me to belieue al the Decrees of that Church which cānot erre fundamentally especially if we add That according to the Doctrine of Catholique Deuines one errour in fayth whether it be for the matter if selfe great or small destroyes fayth as is hewed in Charity Mistaken and cōsequently to accuse the Church of any one Errour is to affirme that the lost all fayth and erred damnably which very saying is damnable because at leaues Christ no visible Church on earth 21. To all these arguments I add this demōstration D. Potter teacheth that there neyther was (c) pag. 75. nor can be any iust cause to depart frō the Church of Christ no more then from Christ himselfe But if the Church of Christ can erre in some points of fayth men not only may but must forsake her in those vnles D. Potter will haue them to belieue one thing and professe another and if such errours and corruptions should fall out to be about the Churches Liturgy publique Seruice administration of Sacraments the like they who perceiue such errours must of necessity leaue her externall Cōmunion And therefore if once we grant the Church may erre it followeth that men may and ought to forsake her which is against D. Potters owne wordes or else they are inexcusable who left the Communion of the Roman Church vnder pretence of Errors which they grant not to be fundamentall And if D. Potter thinke good to answere this argument he must remember his owne doctrine to be that euen the Catholique Church may erre in points not fundamentall 22. An other argument for the vniuersall infallibility of the Church I take out of D. Potters owne words If sayth he we (d) pag. 97. did not dissent in some opinions from the present Roman Church we could not agree with the Church truly Catholique These words cannot be true vnlesse he presuppose that the Church truly Catholique cannot erre in points not fundamentall For if she may erre in such points the Roman Church which he affirmeth to erre only in points not fundamentall may agree with the Church truly Catholique if she likewise may erre in points not fundamentall Therfore either he must acknowledge a plaine contradiction in his owne words or else must grant that the Church truly Catholique cannot erre in points not fundamentall which is what we intended to proue 23. If Words cannot perswade you that in all Controuersies you must rely vpon the infallibility of the Church at least yield your assent to Deeds Hither to I haue produced Arguments drawne as it were ex naturâ rei from the Wisdome and Goodnes of God who cannot faile to haue left some infallible meanes to determine Controuersies which as we haue proued can be no other except a Visible Church infallible in all her Definitions But because both Catholiques and Protestants receiue holy Scripture we may thence also proue the infallibility of the Church in all matters which concerne Faith and Religion Our Sauiour speaketh cleerely The gates of Hell (e) Matt. 16. shall not preuaile against her And I will aske my (f) Ioan. 14. Father and he will giue you another Paraclete that he may abide with you for euer the Spirit of truth And But when he the Spirit of (g) Ioan. 16. truth cometh he shall teach you all truth The Apostle sayth that the Church is the Pillar and ground (h) 1. Tim. cap. 3. of Truth And He gaue some Apostles and some Prophets and other some Euangelists and other some Pastors and Doctors to the consummation of the Saints vnto the worke of the Ministery vnto the edifying of the body of Christ vntill we meete all into the vnity of faith and knowledge of the Sonne of God into a perfect man into the measure of the age of the fulnes of Christ that now we be not Children wauering and carried about with euery wind of dectrine
argument of the Donatists which you say is all one with Ours but refer vs to S. Augustin there to read it as if euery one caried with him a Library or were able to examine the places in S. Augustine and yet you might be sure your Reader would be greedy to see some solid answere to an Argument so often vrged by vs and which indeed vnles you can confute it ought alone to moue euery one who hath care of his soule to take the safest way by incorporating himselfe in our Church But we may easily imagine the true reason of your silence For the answere which S. Augustine giues to the Donatists is directly against your selfe and the same which I haue giuen Namely that Catholiques (o) Ad lit Petil. lib. 2. cap. 108. approue the Baptisme of Donatists but abhor their heresy of Rebaptization And that as gold is good which is the similitude vsed by (p) Contrae Cresc lib. 1. cap. 21. S. Augustin yet not to be sought in company of theeues so though Baptisme be good yet it must not be sought for in the Conuenticle of Donatists But you free vs from damnable heresy and yield vs saluation which I hope is to be imbraced in whatsoeuer Company it is found or rather that Company is to be imbraced before all other in which all sides agree that saluation may be found We therfore must infer that it is safest for you to seeke saluation among vs. You had good reason to conceale S. Augustins answere to the Donatists 10. You frame another argument in our behalfe make vs speake thus If Protestants belieue the (q) pag. 79. Religion of Catholiques to be a safe way to Heauen why do they not follow it Which wise argument of your owne you answere at large and confirme your answere by this instance The Iesuits and Dominicans hold different Opinions touching Predetermination and the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Yet so that the Iesuits hold the Dominicans way safe that is his errour not damnable and the Dominicans hold the same of the Iesuits Yet neither of them with good Consequence can presse the other to belieue his opinion because by his owne Confession it is no damnable error 11. But what Catholique maketh such a wise demaund as you put into our mouths If our Religion be a safe way to heauen that is not dānable why do you not follow it As if euery thing that is good must be of necessity imbraced by euery body But what thinke you of the Argument framed thus Our Religion is safe euen by your Confession therfore you ought to grant that all may imbrace it And yet further thus Among different Religions and contrary wayes to heauen one only can be safe But Ours by your owne Confession is safe wheras we hold that in yours there is no hope of saluation Therfore you may and ought to imbrace ours This is our Argument And if the Dominicans and Iesuits did say one to another as we say to you then one of them might with good consequence presse the other to belieue his opinion You haue still the hard fortune to be beaten with your owne weapon 12. It remaineth then that both in regard of Fayth and Charity Protestants are obliged to vnite themselues with the Church of Rome And I may add also in regard of the Theologicall Vertue of Hope without which none can hope to be saued and which you want either by excesse of Confidence or defect by Despaire not vnlike to your Fayth which I shewed to be either deficient in Certainty or excessiue in Euidence as likewise according to the rigid Caluinists it is either so strong that once had it can neuer be lost or so more then weake and so much nothing that it can neuer be gotten For the true Theologicall Hope of Christians is a Hope which keepes a meane betweene Presumption and Desperation which moues vs to worke our saluation with feare and trembling which conducts vs to make sure our saluation by good workes as holy Scripture aduiseth But contrarily Protestants do either exclude Hope by Despaire with the Doctrine that our Sauiour died not for all and that such want grace sufficient to saluation or else by vaine Presumption groūded vpon a fantasticall persuasion that they are Predestinate which Fayth must exclude all feare and trembling Neither can they make their Calling certaine by good workes who do certainly belieue that before any good workes they are iustified and iustified euen by Fayth alone and by that Faith wherby they certainly belieue that they are iustifyed Which points some Protestants do expresly affirme to be the soule of the Church the principall Origen of saluatiō Of all other points of Doctrine the chiefest and weightiest as already I haue noted Chap. 3. n. 19. And if some Protestants do now relent from the rigour of the aforesaid doctrine we must affirme that at least some of them want the Theologicall Vertue of Hope yea that none of them can haue true Hope while they hope to be saued in the Communion of those who defend such doctrines as doe directly ouerthrow all true Christian Hope And for as much as concernes Fayth we must also infer that they want Vnity therin and consequently haue none at all by their disagreement about the soule of the Church the principall Origen of saluation of all other points of Doctrine the chiefest and weightiest And if you want true Fayth you must by consequence want Hope or if you hold that this point is not to be so indiuisible on either side but that it hath latitude sufficient to imbrace all parties without preiudice to their saluation notwithstanding that your Brethren hold it to be the soule of the Church c. I must repeate what I haue said heertofore that euen by this Example it is cleere you cannot agree what points be fundamentall And so to whatsoeuer answere you fly I presse you in the same manner and say that you haue no Certainty whether you agree in fundamentall points or Vnity and substance of Fayth which cannot stand with difference in fundamentall And so vpon the whole matter I leaue it to be considered whether Want of Charity can be iustly charged on vs because we affirme that they cannot without repentance be saued who want of all other the most necessary meanes to saluation which are the three Theologicall Vertues FAITH HOPE and CHARITY 13. And now I end this first Part hauing as I conceiue complyed with my first designe in that measure which Tyme Commodity scarcity of Bookes and my owne small Abilities could affoard which was to shew that Amongst men of different Religions one side onely can be saued For since there must be some infallible Meanes to decide all Controuersies concerning Religion and to propound truth reuealed by Almighty God and this Meanes can be no other but the Visible Church of Christ which at the tyme of Luthers appearance was only the Church of
you can possibly be saued But we haue no such dependance vpon you Nay the same Confession which acquits vs condemnes your selues For while you confesse a Reformatiō of the Old Church and neyther doe nor can specify any Visible Church which in your opinion needed no Reformation you must affirme that the Church which you intended to reforme was indeed the Visible Catholique Church if so then you cannot deny but that you departed from the Catholique Church are guilty of Schisme yea and of Heresy For if the Catholique Church was infected with erroneous doctrine which needed Reformation it followes that the errours were Vniuersall and that the Reformation conming after those errours must want Vniuersality of Place and Tyme and therefore be branded with the marke of Heresy For in true Diuinity a new and no Church are all one Moreouer the very Nature Essence of the Church requiring true fayth it is impossible to alter any lest point of fayth without changing the substance of the Church and Religion and therfore to reforme the Church in matters of faith is as if you should reforme a man by depriuing him of a reasonable Soule whereby he is a man And a Reformed Catholique are termes no lesse repugnant then a reasonable vnreasonable creature or a destroied existing thing Wherfore to say the Reformation did not change the substance of Religion but only cleansed it from corrupt and impure qualities are meer wordes to deceaue simple soules And it is a lamentable case that you can neuer be brought from such ridiculous similitudes as heere you bring of Naaman who was stil the same man before and after he was cured of his leprosy Of a field ouergrowne with weeds thistles c. and your Brethren are full of twenty such childish pretended illustrations whereas euery body knowes that leprosy is accidental to a man and weeds to a field but Fayth is essentiall to the Church and that Affirmation or Negation of any one reuealed Truth whatsoeuer are differences no lesse essentiall in fayth then reasonable and vnreasonable in liuing Creatures And Fayth it selfe being an accident and quality consisting in Affirmation or Negation to cleanse it from the corrupt and impure quality of affirming or denying is to cleanse it from its own Nature and Essence which is not to reforme but to destroy it Lastly from this your forced Confession not to erect a new Church but to purge the Old we must inferre that the Roman Church which you sought to purge was the Old Church and the Catholike Church of Christ For if you found any other Old visible Catholike Church which needed no Reformation then you neyther intended to erect a new Church nor to purge the Old 2. You say the things which Protestants (b) Pag. 61. belieue on their part and wherin they iudge the life and substance of Religion to be comprized are most if not all of them so euidently and indisputably true that their Aduersaries themselues do auow and receiue them as well as they If this be true and that the said Verities make vp the fayth of Protestants as you speake then what needed you a Reformation to teach men the fayth of Protestants which they belieued before Protestants appeared Or how can you be excused from Schisme who diuided your selues from that visible Church which belieued those verities which make vp your fayth You say If all other Christians could be coutent (c) pag. 61.62 to keepe within these generall bounds the wofull Schismes and ruptures of Christendome might be more easily healed O words most powerfull to condemne your selues who were not content to keep within those generall bounds which you confesse we belieued but would attempt new Reformations although with so wofull Schismes and Ruptures of Christendome as you hold worthy to be lamented with teares of bloud If our errors were not fundamentall your Reformation could not be necessary to saluation as when the wound or disease is knowne not to be deadly the cure cannot be necessary to the conseruation of life 3. The Reformation which zealous Catholiques did desire and with whose words you vainely load your Margent were not in fayth but manners For which if it be lawfull to forsake a Church no Church shall remaine vnforsaken But of this I haue spoken in the First Part. Luther was iustly cut of by Excommunication as a pernicious member which yet was not done till the Pope had vsed all meanes to reclaime him Prouincial or Nationall Synods may seeke to reforme abuses in manners and endeauour that the fayth already established be conserued but if they go about to reforme the Catholique Church in any one point they deserue the name of Conuenticles and not of Councels 4. What meane you when you say that you left the (e) pag. 67. Church of Rome in nothing she holds of Christ or of Apostolique Tradition Do you admit Traditions Are they fallible or infallible For if they be infallible then may they be part of the Rule of fayth If fallible they are not Apostolique 5. You goe then about to proue that our doctrines are First doubtfull and perplexed opinions 2. Doctrines vnnecessary and forraine to the fayth and 3. Nouelties vnknowne to Antiquity 6. You pretend they are doubtfull and say The Roman Doctours doe not fully and absolutly agree in any one point among themselues but only in such points wherin they agree with vs. If a manifest vntruth be a good proofe your Argument conuinceth If you thinke that disagreement in matters not defined by the Church argues difference in matters of fayth you shew small reading in our Deuines who euen in all those Articles wherein you agree with vs haue many different and contrary Opinions concerning points not defined as about some speculatiue questions concerning the Deity the Blessed Trinity Incarnation yea there are more disputes about those high Mysteries wherin you agree with vs then in others wherin we disagree and yet you grant that such disputes do not argue those maine points to be doubtfull And so you must answere your owne instance by which you might as well proue that Philosophers do not agree whether there be such things as Time Motion Quantity Heauens Elements c. because in many particulars concerning those things they cannot agree 7. In the second place you affirme our doctrines to be vnnecessary and superfluous because a very small measure of explicite knowledge is of absolute necessity But this is very cleerly nothing at all to the purpose For our Question is not what euery one is obliged explicitely to belieue but whether euery one be not obliged not to disbelieue or deny any one point sufficiently propounded by the Church as a diuine Truth Neither do we treate of ignorance of some points but of plaine opposition and contradiction both between you and vs and also among your selues You cite Bellarmine saying The Apostles neuer vsed (g) De verb. Dei lib. 4. cap. 11. to preach openly
as about the Canon of Scripture c. as also between Protestants and Puritans c. And I could put you in mind of your Brethren who teach that for diuers Ages the visible Church perished and yet S. Augustine teacheth that there is nothing more euident in Scripture then the Vniuersality of the Church as also who deny that Bishops are by diuine Institution who oppose your whole Hierarchy as Antichristian who differ from you in the forme of Ordination of Ministers all which are fundamental points But I will refer the Reader to the most exact Brereley who (z) Tract 3. Sect. 7. vnder ◠reckons no fewer then seauenty seauen differences amōg you punctually citing the Bookes and pages where you may find them And yet for the present I will set downe some words of Doctor Willet testifying your differences From this fountaine sayth he haue sprung (a) In his meditation vpō the 122. Psa pag. 91. forth these and such like whirle-points and bubbles of new doctrine as for example that the Scriptures are not meanes concerning God of all that profitably we know That they are not alone complete to euerlasting felicity That the word of God cannot possibly assure vs what is the word of God That there are works of Supererogation That the Church of Rome as it now standeth is the family of Christ That Idolaters and wicked Heretiques are members of the visible Church let D. Potter heere remember what himselfe sayth of the Roman Church and what he relateth about the opinion of M. Hooker and M. Morton that among Heretiques there may be a true Church That there is in Ordination giuen a indeleble Character That they haue power to make Christs body That Sacraments are necessary in their place and no lesse required then beliefe it selfe That the soules of Infants dying without Baptisme are damned c. Do you thinke that the necessity of Baptisme and other Sacraments the sufficiency of sole Scripture which your English Clergy professeth at their Ordination and those other points are but small matters But besides these and many more there are two other maine generall transcendent differences among you The one whether you do not differ in maine points which though you deny yet others affirme The other what be maine or fundamentall points Vpon which two differences i◠will necessarily follow that you cannot know whether you haue the same substance of fayth and hope of saluation or no. But though your differences were all reduced to one and that how small soeuer that one were sufficient to exclude Vnity of faith among you as I haue often said and proued I haue no mind to spend time in telling you how vn-scholler-like you say Two brothers (b) Pag. 87. in their choller may renounce ech other and disclaime their amity yet that heat cannot dissolue their inward and essentiall relation For when a mans Brother dyes doth he loose any essentiall relation I alwayes thought that essentiall relations were inseparable from the essence to which they belong and the essence from them and a man who still remaynes a man may yet cease to be a Brother It is therfore no essentiall relation 24. I grant that Differences in Ceremonies or discipline do not alwayes infer diuersity of fayth yet when one part condemnes the Rites and discipline of the other as Antichristian or repugnant to Gods word as it hapneth among Protestants then differences in Ceremontes redound to a diuersity in fayth 25. Luther tempered by (c) Pag. 93. mild Melancthon that honour of Germany did much relent and remit of his rigour agaynst Zwinglius and began to approue the good Counsels of peace If inconstancy concerning matters of Fayth be Mildnes Melancton was I grant extremely mild in which respect he was noted euen by Protestāts was disliked by Luther How much Luther relented of his rigour agaynst Zwinglius let himselfe declare in these words which you could not but read in Charity-Mistaken I hauing now one of my feet (d) Pag. 53. in the graue will carry this testimony and glory to the Tribunall of God That I will with all my heart condemne and eschew Carolostadius Zwinglius Oecolampadius and their disciples nor will I haue familiarity with any of them eyther by letter writing words nor deeds accordingly as the Lord hath commanded If in Polonia the followers of Luther and Caluin haue long liued together in concord as you would haue vs belieue the thing being really not true they must thanke the good Catholique King vnder whome they liue who is able and apt to punish when there is great excesse But if they had the raynes in their owne hand what greater concord could be hoped for amongst them in that Kingdome then is found in other places where they haue more power In Polonia there are many Arians and Trinitarians who liue in outward concord with the rest But will you acknowledge them for Brethren to Lutherans Caluinists and your selfe The answere will be hardly made if you sticke to your owne grounds and I may well passe on to the rest CHAP. IIII. YOVR very beginning promiseth small sincerity in that which followes For you make Charity-Mistaken say that Protestants be Heretiques at the lest if not Infidels wheras he only sayth substantially proueth that whosoeuer doth disbelieue any one Article of fayth doth not assent to all the rest by diuine infallible fayth but by an humane perswasion which is a point of great consideration and of which it seemes you are very loath to speake 2. You take much paines to proue what we do not deny For it maketh nothing to the purpose whether or no the Proposition of the Church belong to the formall Obiect of fayth as heertofore I haue told you Nor do we deny Scripture to containe all mattes of fayth if it be rightly vnderstood because Scripture among other Verities doth also recommend vnto vs the Church diuine Traditions though they be vnwritten And you egregiously falsify (a) Pag. 99. Edit 1. Bellarmine as if he excluded the Authority of the Church wheras in the place by you cited de verb. Dei lib. 1. c. 2. he only speakes against the priuate spirit and euen there proues out of S. Augustine that God will haue vs learne of other men We likewise teach that tho Church doth not make any new Articles of fayth but only propounds and declares to vs the old Only I would haue you heere consider that whether or no Scripture be the sole Rule of fayth or whether fayth be resolued into diuine Reuelation alone or els partly into the Proposition of the Church all is one for the maine Question whether persons of diuers Religions can be saued For this remaineth vndoubted that it cannot be but damnable to oppose any truth sufficiently declared to be contained in Scripture or reuealed by God 3. No lesse impertinent is your other discourse concerning the difficulty to know what is Heresy For
of the Pope Sufficiency of one kind for the Layty c. and then they agree with vs Or els they deny all these points and so agree with you against vs. And this is that pernicious fallacy wherby you deceiue your selfe and others as if there were a visible Catholique Church or company of men holding all fundamentall points and being neither Romane Catholiques nor Lutherans nor Caluinists c. nor any other Church in particular which is a meere impossible fiction For Fayth is not Fayth vnles it extend to all points sufficiently propounded as diuine Truths the least wherof if any one deny he giues his Fayth a deadly wound and his seeming Beliefe of other Articles auailes him nothing To which purpose this saying of S. Augustine is remarkable If a man grieuously wounded (c) De Baptism cont Donatist l. 1. c. 8. in some necessary part of his body be brought to a Phisitian and the Phisitian say if he be not dressed he will dye I thinke they who brought him will not be so sensles as to answere the Phisitian after they haue considered and viewed his other parts which are sound What shall not so many sound parts haue power to preserue him aliue And shall one wounded part haue power to bring him to his death In vaine then do you flatter your selues with a seeming sound beliefe of the Articles of the Creed if in the meane time you receiue a deadly wound by opposing any one truth reuealed by God and propounded by the true Catholique Church For as all the liuing members of a mans body are so vnited in one life that a deadly blow receiued immediately but in one doth necessarily redound to the destruction of all so all the obiects of fayth being vnited in the same Formall Motiue of Gods testimony sufficiently propounded to vs the deniall or wounding of any one truth which is vested with that formall Motiue and life of fayth doth ineuitably redound to the death and destruction of all the rest When by this occasion you cite our late soueraigne Lord king Iames affirming that (d) Epïst Casauboni ad Card. Per. ad Obseruat 3. the things which are simply necessary to be belieued are but few in number and yet that all things are simply necessary which the word of God commands vs to belieue it had beene your duty to explaine the contrariety which appeares betwixt those two sayings For since the word of God commands vs to belieue euery Proposition contained in holy Scripture which are many thousands how are the things necessary to be belieued but few in number 21. But now I must put you in mind of not performing your promise not to omit any one thing of moment For besides other you omit to set downe what Charity Mistaken writes (e) Pag. 73. about the true sense of the distinction of points fundamentall and not fundamentall which if you had set downe as he deliuers it it had cleerly appeared how through your whole Booke you had still auoyded the true State and point of the Question To which purpose you conceale in particular what he alleageth out of D. Dunne late Deane of S. Paules who hauing put great strength in the distinction of Fundamentall and not Fundamentall points he wipes out with a wet finger the whole substance of his discourse by saying That (f) Pag. 96. difference in points which are not important is not to preiudice a mans saluation vnles by not belieuing them he commits a disobedience withall as certainely euery one doth who denies any least point sufficiently propoūded to him as reuealed by God whosoeuer that Propounder be For sayth he Obedience indeed (g) Pag. 97. is of the Essence of Religion The Conclusion AND thus hauing in this Second Part answered the particulars in D. Potters Booke and hauing proued in the First Part that this truth Amongst men of different Religions one onely side can be saued is so euidently true as no Christian that vnderstands the termes can call it in question in so much as if any will goe about to persuade the contrary we must say with S. Augustine He doth erre (a) De Cinit Dei l. 21. cap. 17. so much the more absurdly and against the true word of God more peruersly by how much he seemeth to himselfe to iudge more charitably It cannot but appeare how much it importeth euery soule to seeke out that one sauing Truth which can be found only in the true Visible Catholique Church of Christ Wherfore our greatest care must be to find out that one true Church which we shall be sure not to misse if our endeauour be not wanting to his grace who desires that (b) 1. Tim. 2.4 all men should be saued and come to the knowledge of the TRVTH For the words of the sacred Councell of Trent are most true God commands not (c) Sest 6. cap. 11. impossible things but by commanding warnes thee both to do what thou art able to aske what thou art not able and helpes thee that thou maist be able Let not men therfore flatter and deceiue themselues that Ignorance will excuse them For if they want any one thing absolutely necessary to saluation Ignorance cannot excuse And there are so many and so easy and yet withall so powerfull meanes to finde the true Church that it is a most dangerous and pernicious error to rely vpon the excuse of inuincible Ignorance And I wish them to consider that he can least hope for reliefe by Ignorance who once confides therin because his very alledging of Ignorance sheweth that God hath put some thoughts into his mind of seeking the safest way which if he relying on Gods grace do carefully and constantly endeauour to examine discusse and perfect he shall not faile to find what he seekes and to obtaine what he askes Neither will the search proue so hard and intricate as men imagine For as God hath confined saluation within the Communion of his Visible Church so hath he endued her with so conspicuous Markes of Vnity and agreement in doctrine Vniuersality for Time and Place a neuer interrupted Succession of Pastors a perpetuall Visibility from the Apostles to vs c. far beyond any probable pretence that can be made by any other Congregations that whosoeuer doth seriously and vnpartially weigh these Notes may easily discerne to what Church they belong But all this diligence must be vsed with perfect indifferency and constant resolution to proceed in this affaire which is the most important of all other as at the hower of their death and the day of their finall accompt they would wish to haue done For nothing can counterpoyse an Eternity of Felicity or Misery Their Prayer will be much holpen with Almes-deeds offered to this intention of obtaining Light of Almighty God according to that saying of the Prophet Esay Breake thy bread (d) Cap. 58. V. 7. ◠to the hungry and needy and harbourles when thou shalt see
Booke in two or three sheetes of paper But the truth is he was loath to affirme plainely that generally both Catholiques and Protestants may be saued and yet seeing it to be most euident that Protestants cannot pretend to haue any true Church before Luther except the Roman and such as agreed with her and consequently that they cannot hope for saluation if they deny it to vs he thought best to auoid this difficulty by confusion of language to fill vp his Booke with points which make nothing to the purpose Wherein he is lesse excusable because he must graunt that those very particulers to which he digresseth are not fundamentall errors though it should be granted that they be errors which indeed are Catholique verities For since they be not fundamentall nor destructiue of saluation what imports it whether we hold them or no for as much as concernes our possibility to be saued 3. In one thing only he will perhaps seeme to haue touched the point in question to wit in his distinction of points fundamentall and not fundamentall because some may thinke that a difference in points which are not fundamentall breakes not the Vnity of Faith and hinders not the hope of saluation in persons so disagreeing And yet in this very distinction he neuer speakes to the purpose indeed but only sayes that there are some points so fundamentall as that all are obliged to know and belieue them explicitely but neuer tells vs whether there be any other points of faith which a man may deny or disbelieue though they be sufficiently presented to his vnderstanding as truths reuealed or testified by almighty God which was the only thing in questioÌ„ For if it be daÌ„nable as certainly it is to deny or disbelieue any one truth witnessed by almighty God thogh the thing be not in it self of any great consequence or moment since of two disagreeing in matters of faith one must necessarily deny some such truth it cleerly followes that amongst men of different Faiths or Religions one onely can be saued though their difference consist of diuers or but euen one point which is not in his owne nature fundamentall as I declare at large in diuers places of my first Part. So that it is cleere D. Potter euen in this his last refuge and distinction neuer comes to the point in question to say nothing that he himselfe doth quite ouerthrow it and plainly contradict his whole designe as I shew in the third Chapter of my first Part. 4. And as for D. Potters manner of handling those very points which are vtterly beside the purpose it consists only in bringing vulgar meane obiections which haue been answered a thousand tymes yea and some of them are cleerely answered euen in Charity Mistaken but he takes no knowledge at all of any such answers and much lesse doth he apply himselfe to confute them He alledgeth also Authors with so great corruption and fraude as I would not haue belieued if I had not found it by cleere and frequent experience In his second Edition he hath indeed left out one or two grosse corruptions amongst many others no lesse notorious hauing as it seemes been warned by some friends that they could not stand with his credit but euen in this his second Edition he retracts them not at all nor declares that he was mistaken in the First and so his Reader of the first Edition shall euer be deceiued by him thogh withall he reade the Second For preuenting of which inconuenience I haue thought it necessary to take notice of them and to discouer them in my Reply 5. And for conclusion of this point I will only say that D. Potter might well haue spared his paines if he had ingenuously acknowledged where the whole substance yea and sometime the very words phrases of his booke may be found in farre briefer manner namely in a Sermon of D. Vshers preached before our late soueraigne Lord King Iames the 20. of Iune 1624. at Wansted containing A Declaration of the Vniuersality of the Church of Christ and the Vnity of Fayth professed therein which Sermon hauing been roundly and wittily confuted by a Catholike Diuine vnder the name of Paulus Veridicus within the compasse of about 4. sheetes of Paper D. Potters Answere to Charity Mistaken was in effect confuted before it appeared And this may suffice for a generall Censure of his Answere to Charity Mistaken 6. For the second touching my Reply if you wonder at the Bulke thereof compared eyther with Charity Mistaken or D. Potters Answer Concerning my Reply I desire you to consider well of what now I am about to say and then I hope you will see that I was cast vpon a meere necessity of not being so short as otherwise might peraduenture be desired Charity Mistaken is short I grant and yet very full and large for as much as concerned his designe which you see was not to treate of particuler Controuersies in Religion no not so much as to debate whether or no the Roman Church be the onely true Church of Christ which indeed would haue required a larger Volume as I haue vnderstood there was one then coming forth if it had not been preuented by the Treatise of Charity Mistaken which seemed to make the other inteÌ„ded worke a little lesse seasonable at that tyme. But Charity Mistaken proues onely in Generall out of some Vniuersall Principles well backed and made good by choyce and solide authorities â—hat of two disagreeing in points of Fayth one â—nely without repentance can be saued which ayme exacted no great bulke And as for D. Potters Answere euen that also is not so short as it may seeme For if his marginall notes printed in a small letter were transfered into the Text the Booke would appeare to be of some bulke though indeed it might haue been very short if he had kept himself to the point treated by Charity Mistaken as shall be declared anon But contrarily because the question debated betwixt Charity Mistaken D. Potter is a point of the highest consequence that can be imagined in regard that there is not a more pernicious Heresy or rather indeed ground of Atheisme then a persuasion that men of different Religions may be saued if otherwise forsooth they lead a kind of ciuill and morall life I conceaued that my chiefe endeauour was not to be employed in answering D. Potter but that it was necessary to handle the Question it selfe somewhat at large and not only to proue in generall that both Protestants and Catholikes cannot be saued but to shew also that Saluation cannot be hoped for out of the Catholique Roman Church and yet withall not to omit to answere all the particules of D Potters Booke which may any way import To this end I thought it fit to deuide my Reply into two Parts in the former whereof the maine question is handled by a continued discourse without steâ—â—ping aside to confute the particulers of D.
of Charity and be resolued to take scandall where none is giuen we must comfort our selues with that graue and true saying of S. Gregory If scandall (l) S. Greg. Hom. 7. in Ezes be taken from declaring a truth it is better to permit scandall then forsake the truth But the solid grounds of our Assertion and the sincerity of intention in vttering what we thinke yield vs confidence that all will hold for most reasonable the saying of Pope Gelasius to Anastasius the Emperour Farre be it from the Roman Emperour that he should hold it for a wrong to haue truth declared to him Let vs therefore begin with that point which is the first that can be controuerted betwixt Protestats vs for as much as concernes the present Question is contained in the Argument of the next ensuing Chapter CHAP. II. VVhat is that meanes vvherby the reuealed Truthes of God are conueyed to our Vnderstanding and vvhich must determine Controuersies in Faith and Religion OF our estimation respect and reuerence to holy Scripture euen Protestants themselues do in fact giue testimony while they possesse it from vs take it vpon the integrity of our custody No cause imaginable could auert our wil froÌ„ giuing the functioÌ„ of supreme sole Iudge to holy Writ if both the thing were not impossible in it selfe if both reason experieÌ„ce did not conuince our vnderstanding that by this assertion Contentions are increased and not ended We acknowledge holy Scripture to be a most perfect Rule for as much as a writing can be a Rule We only deny that it excludes either diuine Tradition though it be vnwritten or an externall Iudge to keep to propose to interpret it in a true Orthodoxe and Catholique sense Euery single Booke euery Chapter yea euery period of holy Scripture is infallibly true wants no due perfection But must we therfore infer that all other Bookes of Scripture are to be excluded least by addition of them we may seeme to derogate from the perfection of the former When the first Bookes of the old New Testament were written they did not exclude vnwritten Traditions nor the Authority of the Church to decide Controuersies who hath then so altered their nature filled them with such iealousies as that now they cannot agree for feare of mutuall â—isparagemeÌ„t What greater wrong is it for the written Word to be compartner now with the vnwritten then for the vnwritten which was once alone to be afterward ioyned with the written Who euer heard that to commend the fidelity of a Keeper were to disauthorize the thing committed to his custody Or that to extoll the integrity and knowledge and to auouch the necessity of a Iudge in suits of law were to deny perfection in the law Are there not in Common wealths besides the lawes written vnwritten customes Iudges appointed to declare both the one the other as seuerall occasions may require 2. That the Scripture alone cannot be Iudge in Controuersies of faith we gather very cleerly From the quality of a writing in generall From the nature of holy Writ in particuler which must be belieued as true and infallible From the Editions Translations of it From the difficulty to vnderstand it without hazard of Errour From the inconueniences that must follow vpon the ascribing of sole Iudicature to it finally from the Confessions of our Aduersaries And on the other side all these difficulties ceasing and all other qualities requisite to a Iudge concurring in the visible Church of Christ our Lord we must conclude that â—he it is to whom in doubts concerning Faith and religion all Christians ought to haue recourse 3. The name notion nature and properties of a Iudge cannot in common reason agree to any meere writing which be it otherwise in its kind neuer so highly qualified with sanctity and infallibility yet it must euer be as all writings are deafe dumb and inanimate By a Iudge all wise men vnderstand a Person endâ—ed with life and reason able to heare to examine to declare his mind to the disagreeing parties in such sort as that ech one may know whether the sentence be in fauour of his cause or against his pretence and he must be appliable and able to do all this as the diuersity of Controuersies persons occasions and circumstances may require There is a great plaine distinction betwixt a Iudge and a Rule For as in a kingdome the Iudge hath his Rule to follow which are the receiued Lawes and customes so are not they fit or able to declare or be Iudges to themselues but that office must belong to a liuing Iudge The holy Scripture may be and is a Rule but cannot be a Iudge because it being alwayes the same cannot declare it selfe any one time or vpon any one occasion more particularly then vpon any other and let it be read ouer an hundred times it wil be still the same and no more fit alone to terminate controuersies in faith then the Law would be to end suites if it were giuen ouer to the phansy glosse of euery single man 4. This difference betwixt a Iudge and a Rule D. Potter perceiued when more then once hauing stiled the Scripture a Iudge by way of correcting that terme he adds or rather a Rule because he knew that an inanimate writing could not be a Iudge FroÌ„ hence also it was that though Protestants in their beginning affirmed Scripture alone to be the Iudge of Controuersies yet vpon a more aduised reflection they changed the phrase and sayd that not Scripture but the Holy Ghost speaking in Scripture is Iudge in Controuersies A difference without a disparity The Holy Ghost speaking only in Scripture is no more intelligible to vs then the Scripture in which he speakes as a maÌ„ speaking only Latin can be no better vnderstood then the tongue wherein he speaketh And therefore to say a Iudge is necessary for deciding controuersies about the meaning of Scripture is as much as to say he is necessary to decide what the Holy Ghost speakes in Scripture And it were a conceyt equally foolish and pernicious if one should seeke to take away all Iudges in the kingdome vpon this nicity that albeit Lawes caÌ„not be Iudges yet the Law-maker speaking in the Law may performe that Office as if the Law-maker speaking in the Law were with more perspicuity vnderstood then the Law wherby he speaketh 5. But though some writing were granted to haue a priuiledge to declare it selfe vpon supposition that it were maintayned in being and preserued entire from corruptions yet it is manifest that no writing can conserue it selfe nor can complayne or denounce the falsifier of it and therefore it stands in need of some watchfull and not erring eye to guard it by meanes of whose assured vigilancy we may vndoubtedly receiue it sincere and pure 6. And suppose it could defend it selfe from corruption how could it assure vs that it selfe were Canonicall
of Commemoration for the dead Nothing of the Churches Visibility or Inuisibility Fallibility or Infallibility nor of other points controuerted betwixt Protestants themselues and betweene Ptotestants and Catholiques which to D. Potter seeme so haynous corruptions that they cannot without damnation ioyne with vs in profession therof There is no mention of the Cessation of the Old Law which yet is a very maine point of faith And many other might be also added 15. But what need we labour to specify particulars There are as many importaÌ„t points of faith not expressed in the Creed as since the worlds beginning now for all future times there haue been are and may be innumerable grosse damnable Heresies whose contrary truths are not contained in the Creed For euery fundamental Error must haue a contrary fundamentall truth because of two contradictory propositions in the same degree the one is false the other must be true As for example if it be a damnable error to deny the Bl. Trinity or the God-head of our Sauiour the beliefe of them must be a truth necessary to saluation or rather if we will speake properly the Error is damnable because the opposite Truth is necessary as death is frightfull because life is sweet and according to Philosophy the Priuation is measured by the Forme to which it is repugnant If therfore the Creed containe in particuler all fundamentall points of fayth it must explicitely or by cleere consequence coÌ„prehend all truths opposite to innumerable Heresies of all Ages past present and to come which no man in his wits will affirme it to doe 16. And heer I cannot omit to signify how you (s) pag. 255. applaude the saying of D. Vsher That in those Propositions which without all controuersy are vniuersally receiued in the whole Christian world so much Truth is contained as being ioyned with holy Obedience may be sufficient to bring a man to euerlasting saluation Neither haue we cause to doubt but that as many as walke according to this Rule neither ouerthrowing that which they haue builded by superinducing any damnable heresies therupon nor otherwise viâ—iating their holy fayth with a lewd and wicked conâ—ersation peace shall be vpon them and vpon the Israel of God Now D. Potter knowes that the Mistery of the B. Trinity is not vniuersally receiued in the whole Christian world as appeares in very many Heretiques in Polony Hungary and Transiluania and therfore according to this Rule of D. Vsher approued by D. Potter the deniall of the B. Trinity shall not exclude saluation 17. Let me note by the way that you might easily haue espied a foule contradiction in the said words of D. Vsher by you recited and so much applauded For he supposeth that a man agrees with other Churches in beliefe which ioyned with holy Obedience may bring him to euerlasting saluation and yet that he may superinduce damnable heresies For how can he superinduce damnable heresies who is supposed to belieue all Truths necessary to saluation Can there be any damnable heresy vnlesse it contradict some necessary truth which cannot happen in one who is supposed to belieue all necessary Truths Besides if one belieuing all fundamentall Articles in the Creed may superinduce damnable heresies it followeth that the fundameÌ„tall truths contrary to those damnable heresies are not contained in the Creed 18. According to this Modell of D. Potters foundation consisting in the agreement of scarcely one point of fayth what a strange Church would he make of men concurring in some one of few Articles of beliefe who yet for the rest should be holding conceyts plainly contradictory so patching vp a Religion of meÌ„ who agree only in the Article that Christ is our Sauiour but for the rest are like to the parts of a Chimaera hauing the head of a man the necke of a horse the shoulders of an Oxe the foote of a Lion c. I wrong them not heerein For in good Philosophy there is greater repugnancy betweene assent and dissent affirmation and negation est est non non especially when all these contrradictories pretend to relye vpon one and the selfe same Motiue the ininfallible Truth of Almighty God then betweene the integrall parts as head necke c. of a maÌ„ horse lion c. And thus ProtestaÌ„ts are farre more bold to disagree euen in matters of fayth then Catholique Deuines in questions meerely Philosophicall or not determined by the Church And while thus they stand only vpon fundamentall Articles they do by their owne confession destroy the Church which is the house of God For the foundation alone of a house is not a house nor can they in such an imaginary Church any more expect Saluation then the foundation alone of a house is fit to affoard a man habitation 19. Moreouer it is most euident that Protestants by this Chaos rather then Church doe giue vnauoydable occasion of desperation to poore soules Let some one who is desirous to saue his soule repaire to D. Potter who maintaynes these grounds to know vpon whome he may rely in a matter of so great consequence I suppose the Doctours answere will be Vpon the truly Catholique Church She cannot erre danably What vnderstand you by the Catholike Church Cannot generall Councells which are the Church representatiue erre Yes they may weakely or (t) pag. 167. willfully misapply or misvnderstand or neglect Scripture and so erre damnably To whome then shall I goe for my particuler instructioÌ„ I cannot confer with the vnited body of the whole Church about my particuler difficulties as your selfe affirmes that the Catholique Church cannot be told (u) pag. 27. of priuate iniuries Must I then consult with euery particular person of the Catholique Church So it seemes by what you write in these wordes The whole (w) pag. 150.151 militant Church that is all the members of it cannot possibly erre eyther in the whole fayth or any necessary Article of it You say M. Doctour I cannot for my instruction acquaint the vniuersall Church with my particuler scruples You say the Prelates of Gods Church meeting in a lawfull generall Councel may erre damnably It remaynes then that for my necessary instruction I must repaire to euery particuler member of the vniuersall Church spread ouer the face of the earth yet you teach that the promises (x) pag. 151. which our Lord hath made vnto his Church for his assistance are intended not to any particuler persons or Churches but only to the Church Catholike with which as I sayd it is impossible for me to confer Alas O most vncomfortable Ghostly Father you driue me to desperation How shall I confer with euery Christian soule man and woman by sea and by land close prisoner or at liberty c. Yet vpon supposall of this miraculous Pilgrimage for Fayth before I haue the fayth of Miracles how shall I proceed at our meeting Or how shall I know the man on whome I may securely relye Procure will you
And therefore eyther Christ had no visible Church vpon Earth or else you must grant that it was the Church of Rome A truth so manifest that those ProtestaÌ„ts who affirme the Roman Church to haue lost the Nature being of a true Church do by ineuitable Consequence grant that for diuers Ages Christ had no visible Church on Earth from which errour because D. Potter disclaymeth he must of necessity maintaine that the Roman Church is free from fundamentall and damnable errour and that she is not cut of from the Body of Christ and the Hope of Saluation And if saith he any Zelots amongst vs haue proceeded (h) Jhid to heauier censures their zeale may be excused but their Charity and wisedome cannot be iustifyed 48. And to touch particulars which perhaps some may obiect No man is ignorant that the Grecians euen the Schismaticall Grecians do in most points agree with Roman Catholiques disagree from the Protestant Reformation They teach Transubstantiation which point D. Potter also (i) Pag. 229. confesseth Inuocation of Saints and Angels veneration of Reliques and Images Auricular Confession enioyned Satisfaction Confirmation with Chrisme Extreme-vnction All the seauen Sacraments Prayer Sacrifice Almes for the dead Monachisme That Priests may not marry after their Ordination In which points that the Grecians agree with the Roman Church appeareth by a Treatise published by the Protestant Deusnes of Wittemberg intituled Acta Theologorum Wittembergensium Icremiae Patriarchae Constantinop de Augustana Confesaone c. Wittembergae anno 1584. by the Protestant (k) De statu Eccles pag. 233. Crispinus by Syr Edwin Sands in the Relation of the State of Religion of the West And I wonder with what colour of truth to say no worse D. Potter could affirme that the Doctrines debated between the Protestats (l) pag. 22â— Rome are only the partiall particular fancies of the Roman Church vnlesse happily the opinion of TransubstaÌ„tiation may be excepted wherin the latter Grecians seene to agree with the Romanists Beside the Protestant Authors already cited Petrus Arcudius a Grecian and a learned Catholique Writer hath published a large Volume the Argument and Title wherof is Of the agreement of the Roman and Greeke Church in the seauen Sacraments As for the Heresy of the Grecians that the Holy Ghost proceeds not from the Sonne I suppose that Protestants disauow them in that errour as we doe 49. D. Potter will not I thinke so much wrong his reputation as to tell vs that the Waldenses Wicctiffe Husse or the like were Protestants because in some things they disagreed from Catholiques For he well knowes that the example of such men is subiect to these manifest exceptions They were not of all Ages nor in all Countries but confined to certaine places and were interrupted in Time against the notion and nature of the word Catholique They had no Ecclesiasticall Hierarchy nor Succession of Bishops Priests and Pastours They differed among themselues and from Protestants also They agreed in diuers things with vs against Protestants They held doctrines manifestly absurd and damnable heresies 50. The Waldenses begun not before the yeare 1218. so far were they from Vniuersality of all Ages For their doctrine first they denied all Iudgments which extended to the drawing of bloud and the Sabbaoth for which cause they were called In-sabbatists Secondly they taught that Lay men and women might consecrate the Sacrament and preach no doubt but by this meanes to make their Maister Waldo a meere lay man capable of such functions Thirdly that Clergy men ought to haue no possessions or proprieties Fourthly that there should be no diuision of Parishes nor Churches for a walled Church they reputed as a barne Fiftly that men ought not to take an oath in any case Sixtly that those persons sinned mortally who accompanied without hope of issue Seauenthly they held all things done aboue the girdle by kissing touching words compression of the breasts c. to be done in Charity and not against Continency Eightly that neither Priest nor ciuill Magistrate being guilty of mortall sinne did enioy their dignity or were to be obeyed Ninthly they condemned Princes and Iudges Tenthly they affirmed singing in the Church to be an hellish clamor Eleauenthly they taught that men might dissemble their Religion and so accordingly they went to Catholique Churches dissembling their Fayth and made Offertories confessions and communions after a dissembling manner Waldo was so vnlearned that sayth (m) Act. Mon. pag. 628. Fox he gaue rewards to certaine learned men to translate the holy Scripture for him and being thus holpen did as the same Fox there reporteth confer the forme of religion in his time to the infallible word of God A godly example for such as must needs haue the Scripture in English to be read by euery simple body with such fruit of godly doctrine as we haue seen in the foresaid grosse heresies of Waldo The followers of Waldo were like their Maister so vnlearned that some of them sayth (n) Ibid. Fox expounded the words Ioan. 1. Suieum non receperunt Swyne did not receiue him And to conclude they agreed in diuers things with Catholiques against Protestants as may be seene in (o) Tract 2. cap. 2. sect subd 3. Brereley 51. Neither can it be pretended that these are slanders forged by Catholiques For besides that the same things are testified by Protestant Writers as Illyrâ—cus Cowper others our Authours cannot be suspected of partiality in disfauour of Protestants vnles you will say perhaps that they were Prophets and some hundred yeares agoe did both foresee that there were to be Protestants in the world and that such Protestants were to be like the Waldenses Besides from whence but from our Histories are Protestants come to know that there were any such men as the Waldenses and that in some points they agreed with the Protestants and disagreed from them in others And vpon what ground can they belieue our Authours for that part wherin the Waldenses were like to Protestants and imagine they lyed in the rest 52. Neither could Wicliffe continue a Church neuer interrupted from the time of the Waldenses after whom he liued more then one hundred and fifty yeares to wit the yeare 1371. He agreed with Catholiques about the worshipping of Reliques and Images and about the Intercession of our blessed Lady the euer Immaculate Mother of God he went so far as to say It seemes to me (p) In serm de Assump Marte impossible that we should be rewarded without the intercession of the Virgin Mary He held seauen Saciaments Purgatory and other points And against both Catholiques and Protestants he maintained sundry damnable doctrines as diuers Protestant Writers relate As first If a Bishop or Priest be in deadly sinne he doth not indeed either giue Orders Consecrate or Baptize Secondly That Ecclesiasticall Ministers ought not to haue any temporall possessions nor propriety in any thing but should
world amongst all men of the world elected him he speakes of S. Peter to whom he granted the Chaire of Doctour to be principally possessed by a perpetuall right of Priuiledge that whosoeuer is desirous to know any diuine and profound thing may haue recourse to the Oracle and Doctrine of this instruction Iohn Patriarck of Constantinople more then eleauen hundred yeares agoe in an Epistle to Pope Hormisda writeth thus Because (u) Epist ad Hormis PP the beginning of saluation is to conserue the rule of right Fayth in no wise to swarue from the tradition of our for-Fathers because the words of our Lord cannot faile saying Thou art Peter and vpon this Rocke I will build my Church the proofes of deeds haue made good those words because in the Sea Apostolicall the Catholique Religion is alwayes conserued inuiolable And againe We promise heerafter not to recite in the sacred Mysteries the names of them who are excluded from the Communion of the Catholique Church that is to say who consent not fully with the Sea Apostolique Many other Authorities of the ancient Fathers might be produced to this purpose but these may serue to shew that both the Latin Greeke Fathers held for a Note of being a Catholique or an Heretique to haue been vnited or diuided from the Sea of Rome And I haue purposely alledged only such Authorities of Fathers as speake of the priuiledges of the Sea of Rome as of things permament and depending on our Sauiours promise to S. Peter from which a generall rule and ground ought to be taken for all Ages because Heauen and Earth shall (w) Matt. 24.35 passe but the word of our Lord shall remaine for euer So that I heere conclude that seing it is manifest that Luther and his followers diuided themselues from the Sea of Rome they beare the inseparable Marke of Heresy 20. And though my meaning be not to treate the point of Ordination or Succession in the Protestants Church because the Fathers alledged in the last reason assigne Succession as one marke of the true Church I must not omit to say that according to the grounds of Protestants themselues they can neyther pretend personall Succession of Bishops nor Succession of doctrine For whereas Succession of Bishops signifies a neuer-interrupted line of Persons endued with an indeleble Quality which Deuines call a Character which caÌ„not be taken away by deposition degradation or other meanes whatsoeuer and endued also with Iurisdiction and Authority to teach to preach to gouerne the Church by lawes precepts censures c. ProtestaÌ„ts cannot pretend SuccessioÌ„ in either of these For besids that there was neuer Protestant Bishop before Luther and that there can be no continuance of Succession where there was no beginning to succeed they coÌ„monly acknowledge no Character consequently must affirme that when their pretended Bishops or Priests are depriued of Iurisdiction or degraded they remaine meere lay Persons as before their Ordination fulfilling what Tertâ—â—â—lian obiects as a marke of Heresy To day a Priest to morrow (x) Praeser çap. 41. a Lay-man For if there be no immoueable Character their power of Order must consist onely in Iurisdiction and authority or in a kind of morall deputation to some function which therefore may be taken away by the same power by which it was giuen Neither can they pretend Succcession in Authority or Iurisdiction For all the Authority or Iurisdiction which they had was conferred by the Church of Rome that is by the Pope Because the whole Church collectiuely doth not meet to ordayne Bishops or Priests or to giue them Authority But according to their owne doctrine they belieue that the Pope neyther hath or ought to haue any Iurisdiction Power Superiority Preheminence or Authority Ecclesiasticall or Spirituall within this Realme which they sweare euen when they are ordained Bishops Priests and Deacons How then can the Pope giue Iurisdiction where they sweare he neyther hath nor OVGHT to haue any Or if yet he had how could they without Schisme withdraw themselues from his obedience Besides the Roman Church neuer gaue them Authority to oppose Her by whome it was giuen But grant their first Bishops had such Authority from the Church of Rome after the decease of those men who gaue Authority to their pretended Successours The Primate of England But from whome had he such Authority And after his decease who shall conferre Authority vpon his Successours The temporall Magistrate King Henry neyther a Catholique nor a Protestant King Edward a Child Queene Elizabeth a Woman An Infant of one houres Age is true King in case of his Predecessours decease But shal your Church lye fallow till that Infant-King and greene Head of the Church come to yeares of discretion Doe your Bishops your Hierarchy your Succession your Sacraments your being or not being Heretiques for want of Succession depeÌ„d on this new-found Supremacy-doctrine brought in by such a man meerely vpon base occasions and for shamefull ends impugned by Caluin and his followers derided by the Christian world euen by chiefe Protestants as D. Andrewes Wotton c. not held for any necessary point of fayth And from whome I pray you had Bishops their Authority when there were no Christian Kinges Must the Greeke Patriarks receiue spirituall Iurisdiction from the Greeke Turke Did the Pope by the Baptisme of Princes loose the spirituall Power he formerly had of conferring spirituall Iurisdiction vpon Bishops Hath the temporall Magistrate authority to preach to assoile from sinnes to inflict excommunications and other Censures Why hath he not Power to excommunicate as well as to dispense in Irregularity as our late Soueraigne Lord King Iames either dispensed with the late Archbishop of Canterbury or els gaue commission to some Bishops to doe â—t and since they were subiect to their Primate and not he to them it is cleere that they had no Power to dispense with him but that power must proceed from the Prince as Superiour to them all and head of the Protestants Church in England If he haue no such authority how can he giue to others what himselfe hath not Your Ordination or Consecration of Bishops and Priests imprinting no Character can only consist in giuing a Power Authority Iurisdiction or as I said before some kind of Deputation to exercise Episcopall or Priestly functions If then the temporall Magistrate confers this Power c. he can nay he cannot chuse but Ordaine and consecrate Bishops and Priests as often as he confers Authority or Jurisdiction and your Bishops as soone as they are designed and confirmed by the King must ipso faclo be Ordained and Consecrated by him without interuention of Bishops or Matter and Forme of Ordination Which absurdities you will be more vnwilling to grant then well able to auoid if you will be true to your owne doctrines The Pope from whom originally you must beg your Succession of Bishops neuer receiued nor will nor can acknowledge to
be saued whether their differeÌ„ces be great or smal 20. I haue told you already that the Author of the Moderate Examination c. is no Catholique That other Treatise entituled Syllabus aliquot Synodorum c. I haue not seen but if the Author pretend as you say that both Hugenots and Catholiques may be saued he can be no Catholique 21. You would faine auoide the note of Heretiques which is to be named by Moderne names deriued for the most part from their first Sect-Maisters You renounce the names of Lutherans Zwinglians or Caluinists and to that purpose you make halfe a Sermon But words will not serue your turne For they are no iniurious Nick-names as you say but names imposed by meere necessity to distinguish you from those from whom you really differ and to expresse the variety of your late Reformation If we speake of Christians or Catholiques without some addition no man will dreame of you but will thinke of vs who had that Name before Luther appeared and therefore it cannot expresse the latter Reformation If you wil be called the Reformed Church still the doubt remaynes whether you meane those who follow Luther or Caluin or Zwinglius c. Neyther will the Reformed Church if she be in her wits make her selfe lyable to all errors of Lutherans Caluinists Anabaptists Puritans c. And in this your prime man D. Field is more ingenious while he acknowledgeth a necessity of the name of Lutherans in these words Neyther was it possible (q) Of the Church lib. 2. cap. 9. p. 59. that so great an alteration should be effected and not carry some remembrance of them by whome it was procured And Whitaker sayth For distinctions sake we are inforced to vse the (r) In his answer to Reynolds Preface pag. 44. name of Protestants And Grauerus giueth a reason why those of the same Sect with him be called Lutherans saying The only reason (s) In his Absurda AbsurdoruÌ„ c. in Praefat. of it is that we may be distinguished froÌ„ Caluinists Papists from whom we cannot be distinguished by the generall name eyther of ChristiaÌ„s or of Orthed oxe or of Catholiques And Hospinianus likewise sayth I abhorre the Schismaticall names (t) In his Prologomena of Lutherans Zwinglians and Caluinist marke the Shismaticall names yet for distinction sake I will vse these names in this History The vulgar Obiection which you bring that amongst vs also there are Franciscans DominicaÌ„s Scotistes Loyalists c. is pertinent only to coÌ„uince you of manifest Nouelty For those Names are not imposed to signify difference in fayth as the Names of Lutherans Caluinists are but eyther diuers Institutes of Religion as Dominicans Franciscans c. or els diuersity of opinions concerning some points not defined by the Church as Thomists Scotists c. And for as much as these Names be argumeÌ„ts of new and particular Institutes and are deriued from particular men they likewise proue that the names of Lutherans Caluinists c. being giuen vpoÌ„ diuersity in fayth must argue a new beginning a new Sect and Sect-Maisters concerning Fayth D. Field is full to our purpose saying We must obserue that they who professe the fayth of Christ (u) Vbi sup pag. 58. haue been somtymes in these latter ages of the Church called after the speciall names of such men as were the Authours Beginners and Deuisers of such courses of Monasticall Profession as they made choyce to follow as Benedictins and such like And in his other words following he answers your obiection of the Scotists and Thomists affirming their differences to haue been in the Controuersies of Religion not yet determined by consent of the Vniuersall Church What can be more cleere that our differences concerne not matters of Fayth and that the names which you mention of FraÌ„ciscans Dominicans c. signify a Meanes of that for which they are imposed and which they are appointed to signify and therfore proue that the names of Lutherans c. must signify a Nouclty in fayth 22. But you say that the iarres and diuisions betweene (w) pag. 87. the Lntherans and Caluinists doe little concerne the Church of England which followeth none but Christ. And doe not Lutherans and Caluinists pretend to follow Christ as well as you Who shall be Iudge among you But you may easily be well assured that as long as you follow him by contrary wayes you can neuer come where he is And yet indeed doe these â—arres little concerne the Church of England Haue you in your Church none of those who are commonly called Lutherans Zwinglians Caluinists Puritans c. Doth it not behooue you to consider whether your Congregation can be One true Church of Christ while you are in Communion with so many disagreeing Sects Doth it little concerne you whether your first Reformers Lutherans Caluinists Zwinglians Puritanes be Heretiques or no How can it be but that the diuisions of Lutherans and Caluinists must concerne the Church of England For your Church cannot agree with them all if you side with one part you must iarre with the other Or if you agree with none of them you disagree with all so make a greater diuision 23. And therfore being really distrustfull of this Answere you come at length to your maine refuge namely that their dissentions (x) Pag. 87. are neither many nor so materiall as to shake or touch the foundation But till you can once tell vs what points will shake the foundation you cannot be sure whether their dissentions be not such You say their (y) Pag. 90. difference about Consubstantiation and Vbiquity is not fundamentall because both agree that Christ is really and truly exhibited to ech faithfull Communicant and that in his whole Person he is euery where In this manner you may reconcile all heresies and say the Arians or Nestorians belieued Christ to be truly God that is by reall and true affection of Charity as many among you say Christ is really in the Sacrament that is by a reall figure or by a reall act of fayth as the Nestorians said of a reall act of Charity That euen according to them who deny the Trinity there is truly a Father Sonne and holy Ghost as in God there is truly Power Vnderstanding and Will but whether those Persons be really distinct or no that is as you say of Consubstantiation and Vbiquity a nicecity inscrutable to the wit of man and so a man may goe discoursing of all other Heresies which haue been condemned by the Church Is there not a maine difference of receiuing our Sauiours body in reall substance and in figure alone Or betwixt the immensity of our Sauiours Deity and the Vbiquity of his Humanity which destroies the Mysteries of his Natiuity Ascension c for who can ascend to the place where he is already You specify only the said difference betwixt Lutherans and Caluinists whereas you know there are many more
anciēt times Priests could not liue with wiues And now I aske whether in good earnest you belieue that one may be made a Bishop who will not belieue the Resurrection nor wil be baptized or whether he may be baptized against his will The Answere therfore may be seen in Baronius who (m) Anno 410. n. 6. Spond demonstrates out of the Epistles of Synesius himselfe that he did these things not to be made a Bishop wishing as he affirmeth rather to dye then to endure so great a burthen wherin saith Baronius he seemes only to haue done in words that which S. Ambrose pretended in deeds which was to be esteemed incontinent and vnmercifull so to hinder his being made Bishop But these extraordinary proceedings may be admired but ought not to be imitated To say that the ten Tribes notwithstanding their Idolatries remained still a true Church cannot but make any Christian soule tremble to consider to what damnable absurdities and impieties they fall who leaue the Roman Church You falfify Magallanus (n) In Tit. 3.11 as if he with M. Hooker affirmed that If an Infidell (o) Pag. 117. should pursue to death an Heretique only for Christian professions sake the honour of Martyrdome could not be denied to him which is contrary to the words and meaning of Magallanus For he expresly teacheth that they do not participate of the grace of the Church but are dead parts and consequently not capable of saluation Only he sayth that they may be called mēbers of the Church because the Church can iudge and punish them It is impossible that any Catholique Author should teach that an Heretique remayning an Heretique that is actually and voluntarily denying a reuealed Truth sufficiently propounded for such can be a Martyr But such as you are may affirme what you please The words of Saluianus (p) De Gnbern lib. ◠which you cite and say that they are very remarkable do only signify by way of doubt whether some of the Heretiques of whom he spoke and who in simplicity followed their Teachers as he expresly sayth may not be excused by ignorance And since you affirme that he speakes of Arians I would know whether you do not thinke Arianisme to be a damnable Heresy vnles accidentally ignorance excuse some particular persons 7. You say that (q) Pag. 131. the Errors of the Donatists concerning the inualidity of the Baptisme giuen by Heretiques and of the Nouatians that the Church ought not to absolue some grieuous sinners were not in themselues hereticall c. Neither was it in the Churches intention or in her power to make them such by her declaration If these errours neither in themselues nor by the declaration of the Church be hereticall I pray you how are they hereticall May a mā in these tymes hold them without note of Heresy So you must say vnles you grant the definitions of Gods Church to be infallible For S. Augustine professeth that this point concerning rebaptization cannot be determined out of Scripture alone as hath been sayd before Or if you say this Errour may be confuted out of Scripture then you must grant that it is in it selfe hereticall which you deny But no wonder if by denying the infallibility of the Church you be brought to such straytes I goe on now to the next CHAP. V. IN this Section you handle three points First that the Church is infallible onely in fundamentall points Secondly that the Generall Councels and Thirdly that the Pope may erre in points fundamētall Concerning the first I haue spoken in the first Part the second and third are particular disputes from which you ought to haue abstained if you had meant to haue touched indeed the point of our Controuersy But since you will needs fill you Booke with such particulars I must also goe out of the way to answere your obiections 2. If I tooke pleasure as you doe to fill my Margent with quotations of Authours I could easily shew how you mistake and wrong our Schoole-men as if they held that something which in it self is not infinit but really distinct from the diuine Authority were the chiefe Motiue of fayth the first and furthest principle into which it resolues wheras their difference is only in explicating vnder what precise and formall consideration God is the formall obiect of fayth some assigning the Diuinity it selfe others the authority of God commanding others which is the common opinion teaching that it is resolued into the diuine or Prime Verity and lastly euen those whome it seemes you call vnwise and vnwarry Writers agaynst Luther doe not teach that the Authority of the Church is the chiefest first and furthest principle into which fayth resolues but at the most that her Proposition is necessary to an Act of diuine fayth eyther because they conceyue that matter of faith ought to concerne the common good of Religion and so require a publique Authority or Propounder or els because they hold that her Proposition in some sort enters into the formall obiect of fayth in respect of vs Neither are the Authors of this opinion only Writers against Luther as you say but diuers other Schoole-Deuines 3. Wheras you say that there is no question but that Fayth is supernaturall in regard of the Efsicient Cause and of the Obiect both which ought to be supernaturall it seemes you are willing to dissemble the doctrine of your great Reformer Zwinglius who (a) Tom. 2. exposit fidei Christianae fol. 159. out of his excessiue Charity placed in heauen Hercules Theseus Socrates Aristides c. who had no supernaturall Fayth nor beliefe of God as also the Children of the Heathens dying without (b) Tom. 2. fol. 540. Baptisme Were not such Charitable men very fit to reforme the Church 4. You fall againe vpon the sufficiency of Scripture which point I haue already answered shewed in what sense all points of fayth may be contained in Scripture to wit in as much as the Scripture doth recommend to vs the Church and diuine vnwritten Traditions Neither can you alleage any one Catholique Author ancient or moderne who speaking of the sufficiency of Scripture excludes Tradition by which euen Scripture it selfe is deliuered to vs. And as for S. Augustine and S. Basill whom you alleage for the sufficiency of Scripture they be so cleerly for Tradition that they haue been taxed by some Protestants for that cause as likewise for the same reason some chiefe Protestants haue blamed Clemens Alexandrinus Origen Epiphanius Ambrose Hierome Maximus Theophilus Damascene Chrysostome Tertullian Cyprian Leo Eusebius and others as may be seene in (c) Tract 1. Sect. 3. Subd 22. Brereley But though Scripture alone did particularly containe all points necessary to saluarion doth it follow thinke you from thence that the Church is not infallible May not both Scripture and Church be infallible in what they deliuer Doth not your selfe grant that the Church is infallible for points fundamentall and for
but in some sort the word of God that is vttered by the assistance and direction of the holy Ghost nay I say that the Heretiques are those who indeed leane on a rotten staffe And then he comes to the words which you cited For we must know that a Proposition of Fayth is concluded in this Syllogisme Whatsoeuer God hath reuealed in Scripture is true God hath reuealed this in Scripture ergo it is true Of the premisses in this Syllogisme the first is most certaine among all the second is most firme or certaine among Catholiques for it relies on the Testimony of the Church Councell or Pope heere you breake off but Bellarmine ads of which we haue in holy Scripture manifest promises that they cannot erre Act. 15. It hath seemed to the Holy Ghost to vs And Luke 22. I haue prayed for thee that thy fayth may not faile But amongst Heretiques it doth rely only vpon coniectures or the Iudgement of ones own spirit which for the most part seemeth good and is ill and since the Conclusion followes the weaker part it necessarily followes that the whole fayth of Heretiques is but coniecturall and vncertayne Thus farre Bellarmine And now wherein I pray you consists his contradicting both himselfe and his fellowes Perhaps you meane because heere he teacheth that euery Proposition of fayth must be reuealed in Scripture and therefore contradicts his other doctrine that besids Scripture there are vnwritten Traditions But the vanity of this obiection will by and by appeare among your other corruptions which now I set down First you see Bellarmines speakes not of fayth in generall but only of matters of fayth contayned in Scripture his whole question being about the Interpretation thereof that is Whether we are to rely on the priuate spirit or humane industry of conferring places c. or els vpon the Church And therefore Secondly he sayth not as you cite him in a different letter by way of an vniuersal negation that a Proposition is not de fide or not belonging to fayth vnles it be concluded in this Syllogisme Whatsoeuer God hath reuealed in the Scripture is true but this or that God hath reuealed in Scripture c. from whence it would follow that nothing at all could be belieued which is not contained in Scripture but he onely sayth that a Proposition of fayth is cōcluded in this Syllogisme which includes no vniuersall negation but is meant onely of those Propositions of fayth which depend on the interpretation of Scripture which was the subiect of his discourse And therefore I wonder why you should say in generall this reason supposes that matters of fayth must be reuealed in Scripture For to teach that some matters of faith are in Scripture doth not suppose that all matters of fayth must be contayned in Scripture and yet all the contradiction that heere you find in Bellarmine must be this Such Propositions of fayth as are contayned in Scripture are concluded in this Syllogisme Whatsoeuer God hath reuealed in the Scripture c. Ergo all Propositions of fayth must be concluded in this Syllogisme Ergo there are no vnwritten Traditions A goodly contradiction Thirdly where did Bellarmine euer teach that the Proposall of the Church can make any vnwritten Verity to become matter of fayth as you speake The Church doth not make Verities to be matter of fayth but only declares them to be such Fourthly you leaue out the words which cleerly explicate in what sense the Testimony of the Church may be sayd to be humane or diuine by which your Argument to proue that the declaration of the Church cannot be a sufficient ground of fayth had been answered and your fallacy discouered Fifihly Bellarmine neuer affirmed as you say he did that the strength and truth of the Minor in the sayd Syllogisme depends on the Testimony of the Church but only that it is most certaine among Catholiques by the Testimony of the Church because as I haue often said the Church cannot make any one Article to be true but only by her declaration can make it certaine to all Catholiques as Bellarmine said Sixtly you leaue out Bellarmines words wherby he proues the infallibility of Church and Pope out of Scripture and accordingly in the Scauenth place that which he expresly sayth of the vncertaine coniecturall ground of Heretiques which can produce only a coniecturall and vncertaine Fayth because the Conclusion followes the weaker part you make him apply to the Testimony of the Church as if it were vncertaine which contrarily in the words by you omitted he proues to be most certaine infallible and therfore the Conclusion which relies vpon a Proposition deliuered by her is not subiect to error Eighthly you returne to the slaunder that if Bellarmines doctrine be true there is no truth in the Scriptures or in our Religion without the attestation of the Church as if Bellarmine had taught that the truth of Scripture and of all Christian Religion depends on the attestation of the Church which could not in you proceed from ignorance but from a purpose to deceiue your Reader For Bellarmine in that very place which you cite declares himselfe so fully and cleerly that you cannot be excused from wilfull slaunder I will put downe the place at large that heerafter you and your Brethren may either cease to make the same Obiection or els endeauour to confute the Cardinalls answere Bellarmine then makes this obiection against himselfe If the Pope iudge of Scriptures it followes that the Pope or Councell is aboue the Scripture and if the meaning of Scripture without the Pope or Councell be not authenticall it followes that the word of God takes his force and strength from the word of men And then he giues this Answere I answere that this Argument of which Heretiques make greatest account consists in a meere Equiuocation For it may be vnderstood two manner of wayes that the Church doth iudge of Scriptures the one That she should iudge whether that which the Scripture teaches be true or false The other That putting for a most certaine ground that the words of Scripture are most true she should iudge what is the true interpretation of them Now if the Church did iudge according to the former way she should indeed be aboue the Scripture but this we do not say though we be calumniated by the Heretiques as if we did who euery where cry out that we put the Scripture vnder the Popes Feet But that the Church or Pope doth iudge of Scriptures in the latter sense which we affirme is not to say that the Church is aboue Scripture but aboue the sudgment of priuate persons For the Church doth not iudge of the Truth of Scripture but of the vnderstanding of thee and mee and others Neither doth the word of God receiue strength therby but only my vnderstanding receiues it For the Scripture is not more true or certaine because it is so expounded by the Church but my Opinion
is truer when it is confirmed by the Church What say you now Doth Bellarmine teach that the Truth or certainety of Scripture or of the Minor in the foresaid Syllogisme depeÌ„ds on the Church But in the meane time how many corruptions haue you committed in this one Citation 15. You cite (g) pag. 149. Waldâ—â—si to proue that the (h) Walden lib. 2. Doct. fid art 2. cap. 19. §. 1. infallibility of the Church is planted only in the Church vniuersall or the Catholique Body of Christ on earth comprehending all his members But though we cannot allow of Waldensis his doctrine in some points wherin he contradicts the consent of other Catholiques yet he doth not teach what you affirme but only that the infallibility of the Church consists in the succession of Doctors in the Church which is against your assertion Pag. 150. that the whole Militant Church that is all the members of it cannot possibly erre c. And therfore the doctrine of Waldensis is sufficient for our maine Question against you that whosoeuer erreth in any one point deliuered by Doctours and Pastours succeeding one another in the visible Church is an Heretique and without repentance cannot be saued whether the point be of it selfe fundamentall or not fundamentall For Waldensis maketh no such distinction as you do Nay which is directly against your present Assertion heere and your doctrine els where this Author doctrinal fidei tom 1. Art 2. cap. 47. hauing prefixed this Title before that Chapter That the Pope hath infringible power to determine verities of fayth and to ouercome and cancell all hereticall falsities doth in the whole Chapter it selfe prosecute and proue the said Title out of the Fathers And to the next Chapter 48. hauing also giuen this Title Of the Prerogatiue of the perpetuall immunity and purity of the Romane Church from all contagion of Heresy he proues it in like manner through the whole Chapter You must therfore be well aduised how you cite Authors out of one place without considering or enquiring what they say in another 16. Together with Waldensis you cite Syluester saying The Church which is (i) Summa verb. Ecclesia çap. 1. §. 4. affirmed not to be capable of error is not the Pope but the Congregation of the faythfull But this is a plaine falsification For in that very place he teacheth That the Pope vsing the Councell of Cardinals or his members cannot erre but may erre as he is a particular person And then adds In this manner is to be vnderstood the Glosse Caus 24. q. 1. can à recta which sayth the Church which cannot erre is not the Pope but the Congregation of the faythfull So as you see that these are not the words of Syluester as you affirme but of another which yet he interprets plainely against you And that you may be wholy inexcusable he doth heer referre himselfe to another place namely Verb. Concilium § 3. where he expresly proues that a Councell caÌ„not erre no more then the Church because if the Councell could erre the whole Church might erre For the Church doth not meet togeather but only the Councell or the Pope Adding further that the doctrine of the Church vpon which S. Thomas sayth we are to rely as vpon an infallible Rule is no other then that of the Councell And as for the Pope he sayth that we must not stand to the Popes declaration because he hath better reasons then can be alleaged to the contrary but because he is Head of the Church whose office is to determine doubts in fayth And a little after he expressy sayth That the Pope cannot erre when recourse is made to him in doubtfull matters as to the Head of the Church because sayth he this errour would redound to the errour of the whole Church And likewise in this very place of Syluester which you cite he also referres himselfe to Verb. fides § 2. where at large he proues the Popes infallibility saying That it belongeth to fayth that we rely vpon the Popes determination in things belonging to fayth or manners because the Church cannot erre in such things and consequently he as head of the Church that is as he is Pope cannot erre although he determined without aduice of the Cardinals With what conscience then do you cite this Author against his words meaning and designe and ascribe to him words which he citeth out of another and as I said explicates against you And with the like fidelity after Syluester you do strangely alledge the Glosse Caus 24 can à recta with an Et as if the words which you cited out of Syluester The Church which cannot erre is not the Pope c. had been different from that Glosse wheras they are nothing but that Glosse and not the words of Syluester 17. They you meane Catholique Doctours grant that the infallibility of the Church reacheth not (k) pag. 14â— to all questions and points in Religion that may arise but only to such Articles as may belong to the substance of fayth such as are matters essentiall and fundamentall simply necessary for the Church to know and belieue To omit others D. Stapleton is full (l) Princip Doctr. lib 8. contr 4. çap. 15. and punctuall to this purpose He distinguisheth Controuersies of ReligioÌ„ into two sorts Some sayth he are about those doctrines of fayth which necessarily pertayne to the publique fayth of the Church others about such matters as doe not necessarily belong to the fayth but may be variously held disputed without hurt or preiudice of fayth Heer is such a Caos of words and corruptions as I scarce know where to beginne to vnfold them Stapleton in the place by you alledged hath this Assertion The infallibility of teaching in matters of fayth granted to the Church hath place only in defining infallibly and proposing faithfully those doctrines of fayth which eyther are called in question or otherwise belong necessarily to the publique fayth of the Church And afterward he affirmeth that those things belong necessarily to fayth and publique doctrine of the Church which all men are bound explicitely to belieue or els are publikely practised by the Church or els which the Pastours are bound to belieue explicitely and the people implicitely in the fayth of their Pastours By which words it is cleere that Stapleton sayth not that the infallibility of the Church reacheth only to such Articles as are matters essentiall and fundamentall and simply necessary for the Church to know and belieue as you affirme but to all points which are called in question or which are publiquely practised by the Church whether they be fundamentall or not fundamentall and therfore you do misalledge him when you say that he distinguisheth Controuersies of Religion into two sorts Some are about those doctrines of fayth which necessarily pertaine to the publique fayth of the Church c. For Stapleton explicates himselfe as you haue heard that whatsoeuer is called in
infallibility because it being euident that she is the selfe same Church which was founded by our Sauiour Christ and continued from the Apostles to this Age by a neuer interrupted succession of Pastours and faythfull people it followes that she is the Church of Christ which being once granted it is further inferred that all are obliged to haue recourse to her and to rest in her iudgement for all other particular points which cōcerne faith or Religion which we could not be obligd to doe if we were persuaded that she were subiect to errour Which yet is more euident if we add that there can be no Rule giuen in what points we should belieue her and in what not and therefore we are obliged to belieue her in all Moreouer since the true Church must be Iudge of Controuersies in fayth as we haue proued it cleerly followes that she must be infallible in all points Which vmuersall infallibility being supposed out of the generall ground of Gods prouidence which is not defectiue in things necessary we may afterward belieue the same infallibility euen by the Church herselfe when she testifies that particular point of her owne infallibility As the Scripture cannot giue Testimony to it selfe till first it be belieued to be Gods word yet this being once presupposed it may afterward giue Testimony to it selfe as S. Paul affirmeth that All Scripture is diuinely (u) 2. Tim. 3.16 inspired c. Secondly I answere that the Church hath many wayes declared her owne infallibility which she professeth euen in the Apostles Creed I belieue the holy Catholique Church For she could not be holy if she were subiect to error in matters of fayth which is the first foundation of all sanctity she could not be Catholique or Vniuersal for all Ages if at any time she could erre and be Author that the whole world should erre in points reuealed by God she could not be One or Apostolicall as she professeth in another Creed if she were diuided in points of fayth or could swarue from the Doctrine of the Apostles she could not be alwayes existent and visible because euery error in fayth destroies all Fayth the Church So that while the Church and euery faythfull person belieues professes the Sanctity Vniuersality Vnity and Perpetuall Visibility of the Church she and they belieue proclaime her infallibility in all matters of fayth which she doth also auouch by accursing all such as belieue not her definitions and while in all occasions of emergent Controuersies she gathers Councels to determine them without examining whether they concerne points fundamentall or not fundamentall while in all such holy Assemblies she sayth with the first Councell It hath (w) Act. 15. seemed to the holy Ghost and vs while she proposeth diuers points to be belieued which are not contained in Scripture as that those who are baptized by Heretiques cannot without sacriledge be rebaptized that Baptisme of Infants is lawfull that Easter is to be kept at a certaine time against the Heretiques called Quartadecimani that the Blessed Virgin the most Immaculate Mother of God was eternally a most pure Virgin that such particular Matter and Forme is necessary for the validity of Sacraments that such particular Bookes Chapters and lines are the word of God with diuers such other points of all which we may say that which S. Augustine said about Rebaptization of Heretiques The obscurity of this Question (x) Lib. 1. cont Donat cap. 7. before the schisme of Donatus did so mooue mon of great note and Fathers and Bishops endued with great Charity to debate and doubt without breach of peace that for a long time in seuerall Regions there were diuers and doubtfull decrees till that which was truly belieued was vndoubtedly established by a full Councell of the whole world And yet the point declared in that Councell was neither fundamentall in your sense nor contained in Scripture And to the same effect are the words of S. Ambrose who speaking of the Heretiques condemned in the Councell of Nice sayth that They were not condemned by humane (y) Lib. 1. defid ad Gratian cap. 5. industry but by the authority of those Fathers as likewise the last Generall Councell of Trent defines That it belongs to the Church (z) 1. Sess 4. to iudge of the true sense and interpretation of Scripture which must needs suppose her infallibility And lastly the thirst that euery one who desires to saue his soule feeles in his soule to find out the true Church and the quiet which euery one conceiues he shall enioy if once he find her shewes that the very sense and feeling of all Christians is that the Church is infallible For otherwise what great comfort could any wiseman conceiue to be incorporated in a Church which is conceiued to be subiect to error in matters of fayth 21. For want of better arguments you also alledge (a) pag. 161. some Authors within the Roman Church of great learning as you say who haue declared their opinion that any particular Churchs and by consequence the Roman any Councels though Generall may erre But though that which you affirme were true it would fall short of prouing that the Catholique Church is not infallible in all points For besides particular Churches or Generall Councels there is the common Consent of all Catholiques knowne by perpetuall sacred Tradition and there is likewise the continued Succession of Bishops and Pastors in which if one should place an vniuersall infallibility it were sufficient to ouerthrow your assertion of the fallibility of the Church And euen your selfe teach that the Church is infallible in all fundamentals and yet you affirme that any particular or Generall Councell may erre euen to Heresy or Fundamentall and Damnable errours And therfore you must grant that according to your Principles it is one thing to say Generall Councels may erre and another that the Catholique Church may erre But yet for the thing it selfe it is a matter of fayth that true Generall Councels confirmed by the Pope cannot erre And if any hold the contrary he cannot be excused except by ignorance or inaduertence And as for the Romane Authors which you cite Occham is no competent witnes both because that worke of his dialogues which you cite is condemned and because he himselfe was a knowne enemy and rebellious against the sea Apostolique Besides the words which you cite out of him against the Authority of Councels are not his opinion but alledged for arguments sake for so he professeth expresly in the very preface of that worke and often repeats it that he doth not intend to deliuer any opinion of his owne Thirdly wheras he alledgeth reasons for and against Councels he alledgeth but fine against them and seauen for them Lastly before he comes to dispute against Councels he doth in two seuerall (b) Dialog lib. 5.1 part cap. 25. c. 28. places in the very beginning of those Chapters of which