we find it is no new thing look into all the Nations where the Pope hath any Power or a possibility of hope to gain a Power nothing hath been able to stand in their way but they have broken through all the Bonds of Nature and other Obligations to attain their Ends. Look into Spain King Philip there removed his own Son by what means the Story tells us he was Heir apparent but he was a Protestant and there also the Father puts Fire to his own Daughter because she was a Protestant there a Spaniard goes from Spain into Germany to murder and did murder his Brother for no other cause but because he was a Protestant Leave Spain and go into France what Massacres have been committed there under the colour of a Marriage in Queen Elizabeth's time and before that how many hundred Albingenses and Waldenses have been put to the Sword for Religion Come we to our own Country and look into England what hath been done here when Queen Elizabeth had a Successor of another Religion how many Attempts were there made upon her Person to bring that Successor in When King James came to the Crown let us remember the Gunpowder Treason wherein all the Nation was to be destroyed King Lords and Commons together and in Parliament assembled were then to be a Sacrifice a Burnt-offering though they might call it a Peace-offering for these Gentlemen are for Sacrifices of Blood as Peace-offerings to reconcile us to the Pope If this be made out we think their Principles having produced these fruits in other Ages we may believe they would do so now What has been said as History of former times is not offered as Evidence of Fact to the present Case but induces a probability that what hath been done by such persons may be done by them again But my Lords we shall make it clear and bring it home to this Lord that he hath had his Head his Tongue his Hand his Heart and his Purse in this damnable and horrible Contrivance and Treason for the destroying of the King the Government our Religion and our Nation We shall bring it home to him But my part is only to open the general Conspiracy And indeed my Lords it is an heavy burden on my aged Shoulders considering that the Winter of Infirmity and Age is growing so fast upon me My Lords the particulars concerning this Noble Lord because the Credit of it rests on the Testimony only of one man viz. Mr. Oats whose Testimony being taken by Sir Edmunbury Godfrey a Justice of Peace and kept in writing by him then Sir Edmundbury Godfrey was way-laid and murdered by men of the Popish Religion thereby to suppress the Examination that he had taken This startled and opened the eyes of the world to look about us for farther Discovery lest we should be led as Oxen to the slaughter not knowing whether we went Afterward it pleased God to bring some of their own Religion and party to make farther Discovery Whereupon several Jesuits Guilty of the Plot were therefore Prosecuted and brought to Judgment and Death After the Murder of Godfrey several Fables were spread abroad as if he were alive and Married as was declared to several Lords others of the party Reported he had Murdered himself but his Body being found it was hard for the party to invent or tell whether he first strangled himself and then run himself through or first run himself through and then strangled himself that was a Dilemma to disprove their Fables touching Godfrey's Murder It then fell out that Mr. Bedlow came as a second Discoverer whose Testimony Concurred with Oats And then there being two Witnesses as is necessary in case of Treason the Design was to take off Bedlow that there should remain but one a single Witness In order to which Reading tempts Bedlow with Rewards to lessen his former Testimony and qualifies that which he had deposed positively was but matter of hear say For which Reading the Instrument in that Design and Attempt was Indicted and Convicted by three Witnesses and suffered accordingly But then this Attempt upon Bedlow failing the next Attempt was to take off Oats his Testimony by charging him with an Infamous offence for which purpose one Knox is imployed who Suborns Lane and Osborn and they Swore it against Oats But on Re-examination Confess the Subornation and Falshood of their Design and Knox and Lane are therefore Indicted and found Guilty Thus when the Treason was discovered the Murder of an Officer of Justice is made the means to hide it and then False and Infamous stories set on Foot of that Officer to hide that Murder and Perjury and Subornation the means to blast the Discoverers These wicked and ill practices we take to be a second reproof of the Plot both in general and particular the Records of which Convictions are here before your Lordships ready to be proved For Cui bono none would do such wicked practices but to hide a greater Sin and worse Designs if possible will be opened and proved by one to whom that is particularly appointed My Lords we speak this that the World may receive Satisfaction we will let our Evidence be all open and publick in the face of the Sun and shew we go not about by private Subornations though there are endeavours to encounter us by such My Lords If we make out these things here is Matter enough for the Satisfaction of the World as to the general Contrivance But my Lords As you sit here as Judges of this Lord the Prisoner at the Bar we must bring it down to particular Persons and we shall do it even to him that those things which were mentioned in General were his Contrivance at least-wise as a man highly deeply guilty of Conspiring the Kings Death and in order to that of raising an Army and the other things that have been opened My Lords I beseech you to pardon me if I have troubled you too long The Particulars were many and I have had little help to prepare it from any body but my self but I submit my self to your Lordships and hope that what is wanting in me will be supplyed by others that follow and I also hope you will find no defect in our Evidence at all whatsoever may have been in the opening of it Then Sir Francis Winnigton another of the Committee appointed for the Management of the Evidence began as followeth My Lords I Shall begin where Mr. Serjeant Maynard ended and confine my self to this Case as it stands before you and to open the particular Evidence relating to the Lord the now Prisoner at the Bar. My Lords I look upon the Cause of this day to be the Cause of the Protestant Religion and I doubt not but that Plot which has alarm'd all Christendom will be so clearly made out in this Tryal that the most malicious of our Enemies will henceforth want Confidence to deny it That the Religion of the Papists
witness against me may look upon me face to face according to the words of the Statute I humbly beseech your Lordships to grant me this which I take to be according to Law and that each may give his Evidence alone and that both against me and for me one may not know what the other says Lord High Stew. My Lord You shall have all the fair proceeding that can be Lord Stafford The Law says my Accusers must look me face to face I desire to have the words read Lord High Steward Your Lordship may see him there where he stands up Then Mr. Smith turned and looked upon my Lord Stafford Lord Safford I do see him but do not know him Lord High Steward Swear him Clerk The Evidence that you shall give in the Tryal of William Viscount Stafford shall be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God and the Contents of this Book Lord High Steward Your Lordship observes he is not brought as a particular Witness against your Lordship but to prove the general Design of your Party Lord Stafford 'T is still concerning me Lord High Steward Look upon my Lord Stafford which he did and now tell your Evidence Mr. Treby This is Mr. Smith my Lords And that which we would examine this Witness to is the general Design of the Plot what knowledge he hath had of it here or beyond Sea the Gentleman is able to understand the general Question Mr. Smith My Lords I remember very well when I went first into France I came acquainted with Abbot Montague Father Gascoyn and several other Popish Priests and Jesuits who often discoursed with me and told me if I would make my self a Catholick I should have an Employment amongst them there and afterwards in England for they did not doubt but the Popish Religion would come in very soon upon which I asked his Lordship the Abbot one day what reason he had to believe it he told me two reasons first that they did not doubt but to procure a toleration of Religion by which they should bring it in without noise and secondly that the Gentry that went abroad did observe the novelty of their own Religion and the Antiquity of theirs and the advantages that were to be had by it These Reasons Abbot Montague gave me There was one Father Bennet and others that told me the chief reason was their party was very strong in England and in a few Years they would bring it in right or wrong All this would not prevail with me to turn Papist and I lived among them several Years At last I had a design to go to Rome and as I went I had a design to go to Provence and so into Italy where there was one Cardinal Grimaldi coming thorough the Town and the Jesuits having a great School there I was curious to go to the School and they were very desirous I should tarry for some time in the Town I did and they made much of me and told me much to the same substance what assurances they had of their Religion coming into England At last they had a desire I should discourse with the Cardinal which I did and he made much of me and he it was that perverted me to the Romish Religion upon this the Cardinal shewed me a pair of Hangings that were in his House which he said did belong to the Queen Mother and were bought in Paris and he told me he was acquainted with many of the Nobility in England and that he had great assurance the Popish Religion would prevail and he told me there was but one in the way and though that man was a good natured man yet they could not so far prevail upon him but that to accomplish their designs they must take him out of the way but at last I left this place and went to Rome where I lived some years in the English Jesuits Colledge there and when I had lived there five years I came to be Prefect of several Rooms there which are the Scholars Lodgings and places of Study I have heard it there often disputed in their own Colledge both preach'd and privately exhorted that the King of England was an Heretick and that there was no King really reigning and who ever took him out of the way would do a meritorious action Lord High Steward Who was that that said so Mr. Treby Name the persons Mr. Smith Father Anderton Rector of the Colledge who was a very good Scholar Father Mumford and one Father Campion but chiefly one Father Southwell one of the chief of the Jesuits And I doubting of the truth of that Opinion they did shew me several of their Books there and directed me to some passages of Mariana Vasquez and Bellarmine which I have since published to the world wherein they did assert it as a true Doctrine and as Christian Doctrine what the Fathers told me and this was never condemned at Rome Besides my Lords when I was coming from Rome with my Faculty and License signed by Cardinal Barberino who generally conducts or causes to be conducted all Papists to take their leave of the Pope and before we came away for there were five or six of us together for a whole month these Fathers were exhorting us That we were not obliged to obey the King of England and that in all private Confessions we were to instruct all persons that we thought were capable of any design That they should use all their endeavours for promoting the Popish Religion I coming into England made my application to Dr. Perrott who belonged to the Portugal Ambassador and was chief of the Popish Clergy in England I was kept there some months to say Mass in his Chappel and afterwards I was sent into the North where there were abundance of Jesuits and Fryers to one Mr. Jenison's House where knowing the Principles of these people I made it my business to rout these Jesuits away especially out of Mr. Jenison's House who had a Kinsman of his own that was a Jesuit and used to serve him in his House and great complaint was made against me and there was one Mr. Smith otherwise Serjeant in the North who gave me intimation of it ond to whom I wrote to satisfie him and the Clergy of the grounds and reasons why I routed them away which if he be in England now he can justifie Upon this I received a smart Letter as a kind of Reprimand for my doing so and he told me That though they did agree with me in Doctrine yet they would endeavour what they could to bring in the Popish Religion And taxed me sharply for appearing against it I told him how the Jesuits perverted the Duke of York and that by that means they would be the chief men in England though there were none of their Order till Queen Elizabeths time Besides My Lords in Rome I saw Coleman's Letters and read them once a month as I believe wherein he
the Conviction of Tasborough and Price to corrupt Dugdale a principal Witness as to this Plot. I only mention these particulars my Lords and certainly as you are a great Court of Record you will take notice of them It would be a hard thing perhaps to spend the time in reading all since all of them are made known to the world already but we shall in the course of our Evidence produce them and you may read such of them as you please All the use we make of them is for the proof of the general Plot which is requisite to be done for it will be hard to believe the Prisoner Guilty of the Plot if there were no such Plot at all My Lords we shall make appear to you things which have not yet been brought into Judgment In the year 76. we shall prove by a Witness that was then abroad and discoursed with Anderton Campion Green and several other Priests and Jesuits that they did acquaint him that there would be great alteration in England ere long that the King was a Heretick and Excommunicated and might be destroyed and this Doctrine they continually and industriously preached And they further said if once the King were removed who alone stood in the way their Religion must needs flourish for this Reason as the Witnesses will speak that the Duke of York was on their side My Lords We shall prove that they had in England men no less industrious amongst them some whereof have been Executed Gavan by name who made it his business to go up and down in several Counties of this Kingdom to prove by Scripture Councils and Examples That it was a lawful undertaking to kill His Majesty These things I name as necessary in order to introduce our particular Evidence I am unwilling to dwell longer upon this point of the general Plot. I shall produce the Records and produce our several Witnesses Mr. Oats and others that will give you a full and plain Account of it My Lords Having done with the general Plot I come now to open the particular Evidence against my Lord the Prisoner at the Bar. As to him my Lords our Evidence stands not upon Conjectures or upon meer Probability because this Lord is as we well know a zealous Papist and hath owned himself so but we have express particular Proofs against his Person My Lords we have one Witness to produce to your Lordships who will prove that in September 78. there was a Consult of some Priests and other Conspirators at Tixall in Staffordshire my Lord Aston's House for killing of the King where my Lord Stafford was present And by a Discourse in the same month we shall prove what reasons this Lord did give why he and their Party undertook the Murdering of the King because he said That he and many Catholâ—ck Families had no Recompence for their Loyalty but if any thing fell it was disposed of to Rebels and Traytors This he resented deeply but above all the Obligation of his Conscience and of his Religion persuaded him to it and confirmed him in his resolution to go on in this horrid Design My Lords we will go farther and prove that this Lord offered 500 l. out of his own Purse to carry on the Plot and particularly this part of it for killing the King We shall produce to your Lordships a Witness to whom he made this offer as looking upon him to be a faithful man and having received so great a Character of him from one Evers a Priest that he thought he might safely communicate the matter to him and the Argument he urged to persuade the Witness besides the 500 l. which he said upon his application to Harcouâ—t and Ireland they should pay him was this that others as well as he was employed in the same Design that it was the only way to establish the Romish Religion in England that he would lay an everlasting obligation upon all the Persons of that Persuasion and that he should not only have his Pardon but be Canonized for it My Lords This is the substance of the Testimony of the first Witness which we shall produce against my Lord Stafford and that is so express as I think it can hardly be answered My Lords Our next Witness says thus for I shall but open the substance of what they say In June or July 1678. there were several Letters from this Lord at the Bar to the Jesuits in London in which his Lordship did declare his readiness to serve them in their great Design and in June 78. the latter end of the month my Lord Stafford came to Mr. Fenwicks Chamber in Drury-Lane he went not then by the name of my Lord Stafford but by the name of Mr. Howard of Effingham and there he did receive a Commission from Fenwick to be Paymaster-General of the Army which was to be raised for the carrying on the Plot. His Lordship told them he was then going into the Country but he hoped he should soon hear from them that they had done the business at least that it would be done before his Lordship did return To which Fenwick made answer Your Lordship must look after the business as well as other Persons and there will be need of some to Countenance it in Town thereupon the Lord the Prisoner at the Bar said That they had been often deceived by this Prince and been patient with him but they would bear no longer but were now resolved to do the Work without delay for their patience was worn out Several other particular Circumstances the Witnesses will acquaint your Lordships withal which I shall not take up your time with My Lords We have a third Witness as considerable and particular as any of the rest one that lived three years in the Lady Powis House had his Education there and was persuaded by that Lady and by one Morgan a Jesuit to become a Fryer and to that end was sent to Doway But not liking to continue at Doway he will tell you the reason why he escaped to France and at Paris came to his Brother a Benedictine Monk there who advised him to go for England But whilst he staid at Paris this Gentleman by the means of his Brother and other Priests grew into a great samiliarity with my Lord Stafford who was then in France and who at last came to have such a great Confidence in him that his Lordship could not hold but told him that though he had disobliged all his Friends by his going away from Doway yet he had something to propose to him which would be a means to reconcile him to hâ—s Friends and bring him into preserment and into the friendship of all good Catholicks whom he would oblige by it The Gentleman was willing to embrace so happy an opportunity and desired to know what it was could procure him so great a good My Lord Stafford the Prisoner at the Bar told him It was a thing of very great Importance and
John Trevor Then we desire they may be produced here and the Copies proved upon Oath and then we shall leave them upon your Lordships Table And my Lords we desire likewise at the same time to save another trouble there may be delivered in the Convictions of Reading Lane Knox and others Then Mr. Clare was Sworn and delivered in the Copies of the Records L. H. Stew. What Record is that Mr. Clare It is the Record of the Attainder of Coleman for high Treason L. H. Stew. Did you examine it Mr. Clare I did examine it L. H. Stew. Is it a true Copy Mr. Clare To the best of my understanding it is Here is likewise a Copy of the Record of the Conviction of Ireland Pickering and Grove for high Treason L. H. Stew. Is there Judgment of Attainder entred upon Record Mr. Clare Yes my Lords there is Judgement entred Here is a Copy of the Indictment Conviction and Attainder of Whitebread Fenwick Harcourt Gavan and Turner for high Treason Here is a Copy of the Record of Attainder of Richard Langhorn for high Treason Here is a Copy of the Attainder of Green Berry and Hill for the Murder of Sir Edmond-bury Godfrey Here is a Copy of the Conviction of Mr. Nathaniel Reading for endeavouring to Suborn Mr. Bedlow to retract his Evidence against some of the Lords in the Tower and Sir Henry Tichbourn L. H. Stew. What is the Judgment there Mr. Clare The Judgment is entred upon it and 't is to pay 1000 l. Fine and to be put in and upon the Pillory in the Palace Yard Westminster for an hour with a Paper upon his head written in great Letters For endeavouring Subornation of Perjury Here is a Copy of the Record of the Conviction of Tasbrough and Price for endeavouring to Suborn Mr. Dugdale and Judgment entred upon it And here is a Copy of the Record of Conviction of Knox and Lane for Conspiring to asperse Dr. Oats and Mr. Bedlow Here is the Record of the Conviction of John Giles for barbarously attempting to Assassinate John Arnold Esq one of His Majesties Justices of the Peace and the Judgment entred thereupon is To stand three times on the Pillory with a Paper on his Hat declaring his Offence to pay â—00 l. to the King to lie in Execution till the same be paid and find Sureties for his Good Behaviour during life L. H. Stew. Deliver them all in And if my Lords have occasion to doubt of any thing being left in the Court they will be there ready â—o be used All which were then delivered in Mr. Treby My Lords we humbly desire that the Record of Coleman may be read because there is more of special matter in it than any of the rest and your Lordships may dispose of the others as you please L. H. Stew. Read the Record of Coleman Then the Clerk read in Latin the Record of the Attainder of Edward Coleman formerly Executed for high Treason by him Committed in this horrid Popish Plot which in English is as followeth viz. Of the Term of Saint MICHAEL in the Thirtieth Year of the Reign of King CHARLES the Second c. Middlesex AT another time to wit on VVednesday next after eight days of St. Martin this same Term before our Lord the King at VVestminster by the Oath of Twelve Jurors honest and lawful Men of the County aforesaid Sworn and Charged to Enquire for our said Lord the King and the Body of the County aforesaid it stands presented That Edward Coleman late of the Parish of Saint Margaret VVestminster in the County of Middlesex Gentleman as a false Traitor against the most Illustrious most Serene and most Excellent Prince our Lord CHARLES the Second by the Grace of God of England Scotland France and Ireland King Defender of the Faith c. and his Natural Lord not having the Fear of God in his Heart nor weighing the Duty of his Allegiance but by the instigation of the Devil moved and seduced the cordial Love and the true due and Natural Obedience which true and faithful Subjects of our said Lord the King towards Him our said Lord the King ought and of right are bound to bear utterly withdrawing and devising and with his whole Strength intending the Peace and common Tranquility of this Kingdom of England to disturb and the true Worship of God within this Kingdom of England practised and by Law established to overthrow and Sedition and Rebellion within this Realm of England to move stir up and procure and the cordial Love and true and due Obedience which true and faithful Subjects of our said Lord the King towards Him our said Lord the King should bear and of right are bound to bear utterly to withdraw blot out and extinguish and our said Lord the King to death and final destruction to bring and put the 29 th day of September in the 27 th year of the Reign of our Lord CHARLES the Second by the Grace of God of England Scotland France and Ireland King Defender of the Faith c. at the Parish of St. Margaret VVestminster aforesaid in the County aforesaid falsly maliciously subtilly and traiterously proposed compassed imagined and intended Sedition and Rebellion within this Realm of England to move raise up and procure and a miserable Slaughter among the Subjects of our said Lord the King to procure and cause and our said Lord the King from his Kingly State Title Power and Government of His Realm of England utterly to deprive depose deject and disinherit and Him our said Lord the King to Death and final Destruction to bring and put and the Government of the same Realm and the sincere Religion of God in this Kingdom rightly and by the Laws of this Realm established for his Will and Pleasure to change and alter and the State of this whole Kingdom in its universal parts well instituted and ordained wholly to subvert and destroy and War against our said Lord the King within this Realm of England to levy and to accomplish and fulfil these his most wicked Treasons and traiterous Imaginations and Purposes aforesaid The same Edward Coleman afterwards to wit the said Twenty ninth day of September in the abovesaid Twenty Seventh year of the Reign of our said Lord the King at the Parish of Saint Margaret VVestminster aforesaid in the County of Middlesex aforesaid falsly subtilly and traiterously devised composed and writ two Letters to be sent to one Monsieur Le Chese then Servant and Confessor of Lewis the French King to desire procure and obtain to the said Edward Coleman and other false Traitors against our said Soveragin Lord the King from the said French King his Aid Assistance and Adherence to alter the true Religion in this Kingdom then and still Established to the Superstition of the Church of Rome and to Subvert the Government of this Kingdom of England And afterwards to wit the said Twenty Ninth Day of September in the abovesaid Twenty Seventh Year
and some years since and was the great Confident of the said Lady and the said Remige was for the most part taken with her Ladyship into Morgan's Chamber when the Consults were held there where he hath often seen Father Gavan Father Towers Father Evans Father Sylliard Roberts White Owens Barry and the Earl of Castlemain and other Priests and Jesuits meet and shut themselves up in the said Morgan's Chamber sometimes for an Hour sometimes for two Hours more or less and at the breaking up of the said Consults have broke out into an extasie of joy saying They hoped ere long the Catholick Religion would be established in England and that they did not doubt to bring about their Design notwithstanding they had met with one great Disappointment which was the Peace struck up with Holland saying that if the Army at Blackheath had been sent into Holland to assist the French King when he was with his Army near Amsterdam Holland had certainly been conquered and then the French King would have been able to assist us with an Army to establish Religion in England Which expressions with many others importing their confidence to set up the Romish Religion they frequently communicated to this Informant And the said Morgan went several times into Ireland to London and several other parts of England as this Informant hath just cause to believe to give and take measures for carrying on the Design and the said Remige and her Husband having first clandestinely sold their Estate and fled into France about May or June last for fear of discovery This Informant by many Circumstances being assured that the said Mrs. Remige was privy to all or most of the Transactions of the Plot. And he saith that about May last was two Years he was present at Mass with the Lord Powis in Verestreet when the Earl of Castlemain did say Mass in his Priestly Habit after the Rites and Ceremonies of the Church of Rome EDWARD TVRBERVILL Sworn the 9th day of November 1680. before Thomas Stringer William Poulteny Edmund Warcupp L. H. Steward My Lord this Affidavit is to the purpose to which you call for it this does say that your Lordship did go by the way of Calice it does absolutely so L. Stafford Now whether he be forsworn or no your Lordships may judge by these three Witnesses Mr. Turbervill My Lords that which I grounded my belief of his going to Calice upon and so consequently that Affidavit was the Letter which I received from my Lord which I have looked for but cannot find L. H. Stew. This Affidavit does not say you went from Calice to England but you went with Count Gramont to Calice L. Stafford I conceive my Lords this Affidavit and his Narrative are word for word the same only that Amendment of 72 for 73 upon which I observed before he was forsworn once I cannot tell what to say if this man can be believed And Count Gramont came by Diep too but besides my Lords in this Affidavit he does not say he believed so by the Letter tho' now he speaks of one L. H. Stew. My Lord Stafford was Count Gramont in your Lordships company when you came to Diep L. Stafford No my Lords he was in England before me a month but my Lords I cannot deny but I had one recommended to come over with me that pretended himself to be a French Count but the man was as errant a Rascal as this that swears against me and that was one that called himself Count de Brienne whom all the world knows to be a Cheat. L. H. Stew. Call your other Witnesses my Lord. L. Stafford Where is John Minhead Who stood up L. H. Steward Who do you belong to Minhead My Lord Powis L. Stafford My Lords Mr. Turbervill he says by the persuasion of my Lady Powis went to Doway and he staid in the Monastery three weeks and not liking that life he came away this may be true I say nothing to it But that which I take Exception at is this He says for this the Earl of Powis and his Lady when he came back from Doway were very angry with him and so were all his Relations and he stood in fear of his life from them Surely when Mr. Turbervill knew he was in such danger he would not have come near them Pray ask this Gentleman whether he was at my Lord Powis's and how he was entertained L. H. Steward Do you know Turbervill Minhead Yes my Lords L. H. Stew. Have you seen him at my Lord Powis's Minhead Yes my Lords L. H. Stew How was he received there Minhead Very well my Lords L. H. Stew When was that Minhead In the year 75. L. H. Stew. Was that before or after he came back to England Minhead It was after he came from Doway L. H. Stew. What Country man are you Minhead A French man L. H. Stew. What Religion are you of Minhead A Roman Catholick L. Stafford Pray ask him whether he lay in my Lords house Minhead Yes my Lords he lay with me in my lodgings L. Stafford And yet he says he was afraid of his life L. H. Stew. Did my Lord know he lay there Minhead Yes he must needs because he came through the Room to go to Bed L. Stafford May it please your Lordships he says he was threatned that he should have his Brother disinherit him and which afterwards was compassed Now I shall shew that this is impossible for he had no Inheritance to lose nor was to have none for his Brother who is elder than he this man being by a second Venter hath Children as I shall make appear by another of his Brothers who is here And this not being settled upon him who was by the second Venter could not come to him but for want of Issue of that Brother must go to the Uncle So he swears he was disinherited of an Estate when he was to have no Estate nor could have Call Mr. John Turbervill who appeared My Lords I desire you to ask him whether he knew that upon his coming back to England he was ill used Mr. J. Turbervill I never knew any unkindness from my elder Brother to him L. H. Stew. Are you his Brother Mr. J. Turbervill Yes my Lords by the Father not by the Mother L. H. Stew. Well what can you say Mr. J. Turbervill I never heard any thing when he returned from Doway that he was ill received by my Lord Powis but in a few days after my Brother and Sister came to Town we went to Bloomesbury and there we met together and my Brother complaining that he was unfortunate in that he had undertaken what he could not perform in going beyond Sea and now wanted a Livelihood my eldest Brother told him he had done as far as his Ability was he could do no more it was his own Choice and he had no more to say L. Staff Had he any money from his Relations Mr. J. Turbervill He
I hope your Lordships will not alter the form for I hope you will keep that great Maxim of your Noble Ancestors Nolumus Leges Angliae mutare and whether this be a Change of the Law or no I submit it to your Lordships A third thing is this Your Lordships do not think fit that my Counsel shall plead to that Point whether Words do amount to an Overt Act for hearing my Counsel to that likewise I do not pretend but I hope your Lordships will give me leave to say this I never heard that Words did amount to an Overt Act if your Lordships judge otherwise I submit but till then I hope it shall not conclude me There were some other Points which I did offer to your Lordships and I humbly beseech you to know whether my Counsel shall be heard to them 't is true one of them which was whether two Witnesses in several places did amount to a legal Testimony or no your Lordships did not declare one way or another If you say you acquiesce in the Opinion of the Judges I must submit but till Judgment is given I beseech your Lordships to give me leave to tell you my weak thoughts about it I did not hear what the Judges said all of them but as I apprehend they were all of one Opinion 'T is true one of them that spoke last I think it was Judge Atkins did say it did amount to a legal Testimony because else those Juries that have found some Guilty upon the same sort of Evidence should be perjured but if this were not so then upon the same grounds under your Lordships favour those Juries that acquitted some upon such Testimony were perjured but I must believe it to be otherwise till your Lordships have declared it as your Opinion for that reason will not hold for the same reason will be for the perjuring the one as for the perjuring the other And the same Juries for the most part tryed those that were found guilty and those that were acquitted Lord High Steward Is this all your Lordship will please to say Lord Stafford No my Lords if you would give me leave I would trouble you a little farther if it were an Offence I would not say a word My Lords I do conceive I am not concerned in the general Plot of the Papists for I am not proved to be so and whatsoever I may be in my self as I conceive or whatsoever there is of hearsay I hope your Lordships will not go upon that but upon what is proved Secundum allegata probata and that common Fame will condemn no man if it do then no man is safe but I must say there is not one word of proof offered that I am a Papist I hope my Lords I have cleared my self to your Lordships and made my Innocency appear by making appear the perjury of the Witnesses and the falshood of those things they said against me Against Dugdale I have proved it by two of his own Witnesses the one was Eld the woman that swore for him That he took up a Glass of Cyder and wished that it might be his Poyson if he knew any thing of the Plot the other was Whitby who says he had given my Lord Aston's Father warning long ago what a Knave he was So 't is clear for Dr. Oats I hope from his Contradictions against himself as well as Dugdale who does contradict himself at one time August at another time the latter end of August or the beginning of September And I hope your Lordships will give no credit to Oats's Testimony for he said before your Lordships he had declared all he knew 't is true I was then accused but not for having a Commission as he now swears and afterwards he accused the Queen so here is Oats against Oats and Dugdale against Dugdale and for Turbervill I have proved by his Affidavit first he swears one thing and then another and the truth of it is his Brother proved him false in his last Oath that it was 7â— and not 72. My Lords 'T is not my part to make any Question nor do I whether a Plot or no Plot for I am not concerned in it If what I shall say now be impertinent I humbly beg your Lordships pardon My Lords I have been by the most of my Friends at least every one that came to me particularly by my Wife and Daughter that is near me persuaded to tell all that I knew and I do here in the presence of Almighty God declare what I know to be true Lord High Steward What says my Lord Speak out Lord Stafford My Lords I do believe since the Reformation from the Church of Rome to what it is now Established the Church of England those of that Religion have had several wicked and ill Designs and Plots I do believe they had a Design in Queen Elizabeth's time Babbington's Plot that is a long time ago how far it was to take away the Queens Life I can't tell but a Plot it was I do believe there was another in her time called Earl of Westmorland's Plot wherein there was a Rebeâ—â—ion in the North for which some fled and some were Executed that was a very ill design As for those poysonings of her Saddle and the like I take them to be but stories In King James's time in the first year of his Reign there was a wicked Plot composed by Actors some of one Religion some of another there was my Lord Grey my Lord Cobham my Lord Brooke and others such they were condemned all of them some fled as Markham and Bainham those Lords and Sir Walter Rawleigh were Reprived and kept long in the Tower But Sir Walter Rawleigh was afterwards upon that same Judgment Beheaded and the Lords dyed in the Tower My Lords Next to that was the Execrable Treason that I spoke of at first the Gun-powder-Treason And I protest before Almighty God I did from my Infancy detest and abhor those men that were engaged in it and I do think and always did think the Wit of Man nor the Devils Malice can't invent an Excuse for it For the men concerned they all acknowledged it confessed it and beg'd pardon of the King and God and all good men for it that is all I shall say to that now My Lords Since his Majesties happy Restauration I do conceive and I think I may safely say it for you all know it he was gracious and good to all Dissentersd particularly to them of the Romish Church they had Connivance and Indulgence in their private Houses and I declare to your Lordships I did then say to some that were too open in their Worship that they did play foul in taking more Liberty upon them than was fitting for them too and that brought the misfortune upon me which I will not name My Lordâ— it was not long ago that your Lordships at your own Bar did allow all the Dissenters from the Church of England
of the Tower of London bring forth thy Prisoner William Viscount Stafford upon pain and peril shall fall thereon God save the King Whereupon the Lieutenant of the Tower brought the Prisoner to the Bar. Usher of the Black Rod. My Lord Stafford must kneel which he did Lord high Steward Rise my Lord. Then he Arose and stood at the Bar and the Lord High Steward spake to him as followeth My Lord Viscount Stafford THE Commons of England Assembled in Parliament have Impeach'd your Lordship of High Treason and you are brought this Day to the Bar to be Tryed upon that Impeachment You are not Try'd upon the Indictment of Treason found by the Grand Jury tho there be that too in the Case But you are Prosecuted and Pursued by the Loud and Dreadsul Complaints of the Commons and are to be Try'd upon the Presentment which hath been made by the Grand Inquest of the whole Nation In this so Great and Weighty Cause you are to be Judg'd by the whole Body of the House of Peers The Highest and the Noblest Court in This or perhaps in any other part of the Christian World Here you may be sure no False Weights or Measures ever will or can be found Here the Ballance will be exactly kept and all the Grains of Allowance which your Case will bear will certainly be put into the Scales But as it is impossible for my Lords to Condemn the Innocent so 't is equally Impossible that They should clear the Guilty If therefore you have been Agitated by a Restless Zeal to Promote that which you call the Catholick Cause If this Zeal have Engaged you in such Deep and Black Designs as you are Charged with and this Charge shall be fully Prov'd Then you must Expect to Reap what you have Sown for every Work must and ought to Receive the Wages that are due to it Hear therefore with Patience what shall be said against you for you shall have full Time and Scope to Answer it Aud when you come to make your Defence you shall have a very fair and equal Hearing In the mean time the best Entrance upon this Service will be to begin with Reading of the Charge Lord High Steward My Lord if your Lordship find your self infirm and unable to stand your Lordship may have a Chair to ease your self whilst the Charge is Reading and a Chair was brought accordingly and his Lordship sate thereon Clerk of the Parliament Read the Charge Articles of Impeachment of High Treason and other high Crimes and Offences against William Earl of Powis William Viscount Stafford and Henry Lord Arundel of Wardour William Lord Petre and John Lord Bellasis now Prisoners in the Tower of London 1. THat for many years now last past there hath been contrived and carried on by Papists a Trayterous and execrable Conspiracy and Plot within this Kingdom of England and other places to Alter Change and Subvert the Ancient Government and Laws of this Kingdom and Nation and to Suppress the True Religion therein Established and to Extirpate and Destroy the Professors thereof which said Plot and Conspiracy was contrived and carried on in divers Places and by several ways and means and by a great number of Persons of several Qualities and Degrees who Acted therein and intended thereby to Execute and Accomplish the aforesaid Wicked and Traiterous Designs and Purposes That the said William Earl of Powis William Viscount Stafford Henry Lord Arundel of Wardour William Lord Petre and John Lord Bellasis together with Philip Howard commonly called Cardinal of Norfolk Thomas White alias Whitebread commonly called Provincial of the Jesuits in England Richard Strange lately called Provincial of the Jesuits in England Vincent commonly called Provincial of the Dominicans in England James Corker commonly called President of the Benedictines Sir John Warner alias Clare Baronet William Harcourt John Kenis Nicholas Blundel Poole Edward Mico Thomas Bedingfield alias Benefield Basil Langworth Charles Peters Richard Peters John Conyers Sir George Wakeman Thomas Fenwick Dominick Kelly Fitzgerald Evers Sir Thomas Preston William Lovel Jesuits Lord Baltamore John Carrel John Townely Richard Langhorn William Fogarty Thomas Penny Matthew Medbourn Edward Coleman William Ireland John Grove Thomas Pickering John Smith and divers other Jesuits Priests Fryers and other Persons as false Traytors to his Majesty and this Kingdom within the time aforesaid have Traiterously Consulted Contrived and Acted to and for the accomplishing of the said wicked pernitious and Traiterous Designs and for that end did most wickedly and Traiterously agree Conspire and resolve to Imprison Depose and Murder his Sacred Majesty and to deprive him of his Royal State Crown and Dignity and by malicious and advised speaking writing and otherwise declared such their Purposes and Intentions And also to subject this Kingdom and Nation to the Pope and to his Tyrannical Government And to seize and share amongst themselves the Estates and Inheritances of his Majesties Protestant Subjects And to Erect and Restore Abbeys Monasteries and other Convents and Societies which have been long since by the Laws of this Kingdom suppressed for their Superstition and Idolatry and to deliver up and restore to them the Lands and Possessions now vested in his Majesty and his Subjects by the Laws and Statutes of this Realm And also to Found and Erect new Monasteries and Convents and to remove and deprive all Protestant Bishops and other Ecclesiastical persons from their Offices Benefices and Preferments And by this means to destroy his Majesties Person extirpate the Protestant Religion overthrow the Rights Liberties and Properties of all his Majesties good Subjects Subvert the lawful Government of this Kingdom and subject the same to the Tyranny of the See of Rome 3. That the said Conspirators and their Complices and Confederates Traiterously had and held several Meetings Assemblies and Consultations wherein it was Contrived and Designed among them what means should be used and what Persons and Instruments should be Employed to Murder his Majesty And did then and there resolve to effect it by Poisoning Shooting Stabbing or some such like ways and means and offered Rewards and Promises of advantage to several persons to execute the same and hired and imployed several wicked persons to go to Windsor and other places where his Majesty did reside to murder and destroy his Majesty which said persons or some of them accepted such Rewards and undertook the perpetrating thereof and did actually go to the said Places for that end and purpose 4. That the said Conspirators the better to compass their Trayterous Designs have Consulted to Raise and have procured and raised Men Money Horses Arms and Ammunition and also have made Application to and Treated and Corresponded with the Pope his Cardinals Nuncioes and Agents and with other Forreign Ministers and Persons to raise and obtain Supplies of Men Money Arms and Ammunition therewith to make levy and raise War Rebellion and Tumults within this Kingdom and to Invade the same with
after having required from him all possible obligations of Secrecy he told him plainly what great benefits would accrew to himself and what advantage to the Catholick Cause if he would make himself and the Nation happy by undertaking to kill the King of England who was an Heretick and consequently a Rebel to God Almighty My Lord Stafford did believe the Witnesses did embrace this proposal warmly and therefore directed him to prepare to go for England and to go before hand from Paris to Deep where he would meet him and go over with him But it seems my Lord Stafford met with some diversion for he did not keep his word with him in coming and so this Gentleman being disappointed went over without him but fearing to be called upon to the same Service he returned back again suddenly and went into the French Army My Lords We shall produce these Witnesses against the Lord at the Bar and when they have proved to your Lordships what I have opened any one who was not acquainted with the Popish party would believe they would be at a loss how to acquit themselves from this Charge All manner of foul and indirect practices have been used by them to Terrifie to Corrupt and to Scandalize our Witnesses all manner of Objections have been made to our Evidence If the Witness does not come up to speak directly to every Point we are told he says nothing at all if he speaks directly they cry he is not to be believed Thus they have a ready answer to every Witness that has been or ever shall be produced either that he says nothing Material or that nothing that he says ought to have any Credit But we doubt not by this Tryal before your Lordships if we cannot stop their mouths at least to convince all the World besides of the reality of this Plot. It will be no wonder if their Confidence goes on still to frame Cavils They are used to scandalize the Government and they cannot give it over How often has His Majesty under his Great Seal published and declared this Conspiracy How often has he press'd His Parliaments to go on to bring the Conspirators to Punishment and at the opening of this very Parliament he says plainly That he does not believe himself safe from their Designs Your Lordships also have Voted the unquestionable Truth of the Plot and so have the Commons yet these men are so hardy as still to deny the plainest Truth so confirm'd as this hath been Nay My Lords Their Malice goes yet farther for they have been so Bold as to whisper up and down and industriously to spread Reports before the Trial as if this Lord at the Bar and the rest who are Impeached should certainly be acquitted We do hope to be able to detect the Authors of this great Scandal and the Commons doubt not of your Lordships Concurrence to assist them in bringing them to their deserved Punishment This is sure the first time that ever any sort of men presumed to Reflect upon the Justice of this High and Noble Court Your Ancestors my Lords did by their Honour Courage and Justice preserve our Ancestors The advantage of which We who are descended from them do now enjoy and We shall never have occasion to doubt in the least but that your Lordships will tread in their steps You have in your hands a great Opportunity to make your Zeal for Truth and for the Protestant Religion famous to Posterity No Artifice or Malice can Create the least Jealousie in us that ever your Lordships should shew any Partiality or Injustice to the Commons of England To your Judgement this Cause is submitted and when we have your Judgement we doubt not but we shall drive Popery out of this English World My Lords We shall go on to the proof of our Cause and I hope this will be a happy day to us and the whole Protestant Interest Then Mr. Treby also one of the Committee appointed for the Management of the Evidence began as followeth My Lords THese two Learned Gentlemen have fully discharged their Province I shall proceed to call our Witnesses to give their Testimony But before we produce them your Lordships will be pleased to take notice that our Evidence will consist of Two Parts general and particular the general to shew the Universal Conspiracy the particular to shew what special part this Noble Lord the Prisoner at the Bar had in it And though in the first part my Lord Stafford may not be particularly named yet that Evidence will be pertinent and proper for us to give in this Trial of my Lord Stafford for we charge him not with the Private Treason wherein he with his immediate Complices only might be concerned but it is a Treason of the Popish Faction or at least the Principal and Active Papists We lay it in our Articles of Impeachment That there was an Execrable Plot contrived and carried on by the Papists and that the Conspirators acted diverse Parts and in diverse places beyond Sea as well as here It was a Treason that did bestâ—ide two Lands England indeed was the thing aimed at the destruction of the Religion Government and Liberty of England was the End but the Means and Instruments were not Collected here only but part of them were to be brought in from abroad This is an Enterprise too extensive to be intirely manag'd by a Single Nobleman And though we look upon my Lord Stafford as a great Malefactor yet we cannot think him so great a Man as to be able within his own Sphere to compass this whole Design Should we not take this course of Evidence first to prove the General Plot it might be a great and just objection in my Lords mouth to say You charge 〈◊〉 with a Design of Subverting the Kingdom how is that possible to be undertaken by me and those I have had opportunity to converse and confederate with a mighty part of the Catholick World had need be engaged for such a purpose My Lords If this would be a material Objection from this Lord then will it be requisite for us to obviate and prevent the Objection by shewing first that there was such a grand and universal design of Papists in which this Lord was to co-operate for his distinct share though perhaps when we descend to our particular Evidence it will appear that his part hath been great and manag'd with malice as great as any My Lords We shall begin with a Witness a Gentleman whose Education has given him the opportunity of knowing the inside of their Affairs and we presume he will give you a satisfactory account his name is Mr. John Smith Lord High Steward What do you call him to Gentlemen Mr. Treby To the General Plot my Lords Lord Stafford May it please your Lordships I know not who he is nor his Name I humbly beseech your Lordships that this Witness who ever he be and all the rest that have any thing to
gave us intelligence of several passages that happened in Court how the Duke and the Queen and the chief of the Nobility were of their side how they carried matters several times the ways my Lord Clifford did use and Sir William Godolphin to effect the work and that they did not question but they should get my Lord Treasurer Danby on their side too This was in Coleman's Letters and he had so much allowance for his Intelligence These Letters of his I read several times in the Colledge My Lords afterwards when I came from Rome I saw Abbot Montague again and he said he was very glad to see me and that I was a Priest well but said I what am I the better where is the Employment you promised me when I should come into England He told me I should have it very soon and he was very glad that I had not made my self a Jesuit and he recommended me to Dr. Goffe Confessor to the Queen Mother who said he would do any thing in the world for me and he did not doubt but he should get a preferment for me which Dr. Goffe is now living Truly when I came into England I found all the Popish Clergy of England that I discoursed with of the same opinion that they did not doubt but the Romish Religion would soon come in And besides in the North there was gathering of Money in which I was ordered to be one of the chief men but I was against it I told them I would do nothing in it I thought it was illegal to send any Money beyond Sea they told me it was charity only to repair the College at Doway I told them it was strange that there should be so much Money raised only to repair one College which would serve three or four Colleges and I perswaded Mr. Jenison and all other persons I had to do with not to meddle with it As to this raising of the Money I conceive it may be inferr'd it was for some other private business and I believe was for the carrying on the design As for the Gentleman at the Bar my Lord Stafford I know nothing of my own particular knowledge but only this Therewas one Thomas Smith Sir Edward Smith's Brother that lived at a place not far off the place where I lived who was one that contributed in paying the Money that was then Collecting he was the man that writ a Letter up to my Lord Stafford to complain of two or three Justices of the Peace that were active against Popery upon which there was one that was turned out that I think is now of the Honourable House of Commons Mr. Treby Name him Mr. Smith Sir Henry Calverley The other was not turned out So I asked Smith when I was lately in the Country about it for I heard a rumor that there was a Letter of this Mr. Smiths found in my Lord Staffords Chamber and I was told it by a Parliament Man one Collonel Tempest So said I to him now you will be concerned in the Plot. No said he I care not for that Letter it will signifie nothing for my Lord won't keep by him any thing of any moment I asked him what he knew about my Lord he told me he writ another Letter to my Lord to know whether he would make a conveyance of his Estate away and whether he apprehended they were in danger And he told me his Lordships answer was that several did so but he would not for he expected some sudden change or alteration I asked him what change or alteration he understood by it Sir said he what can be understood by it but an alteration of the Government and Religion I am sure said he my Lord is so wise a Man that he would not write so without some ground This is all I can say to the Gentleman at the Bar and this is true by the Oath I have taken Mr. Treby My Lords I did observe Mr. Smith in the beginning of his Testimony speaking of the Discourse he had at Rome said they told him there was one in the way I presume 't is not uneasy to conjecture who was that one Lord High Stew. It was surely the King Mr. Treby But we would rather have it explained by him himself Mr. Smith Father Anderton and Father Southwell did say that the King was a good man but he was not for their turn and he was the only man that stood in the way Mr. Treby Did they name the King Mr. Smith Yes it was the common Discourse all over the Country Mr. Treby My Lords I desire Mr. Smith in the next place may give an account of the methods they were to use to accomplish this design the firing of the City and the rest Mr. Smith As to the burning of London I heard nothing beyond Seas at all but this it was discoursed that the Papists did it and the like but they denied it and they said it came accidentally in a Bakers House but this I have often heard them say that it was no great matter if it had been all burnt Lord High Stew. Will you ask him any more Questions yet Mr. Treby No we have done with him Lord High Stew. Have you concluded your Evidence Sir Mr. Smith Yes Lord High Stew. My Lord Stafford will your Lordship ask him any Questions Lord Stafford I desire to know how long ago it was my Lord since he was made a Priest Sir Fran. Winn. My Lords with your Lordships leave no man is bound to answer a Question whereby he shall accuse himself therefore under favour the Question is somewhat harsh and we demand your Judgment in it Lord High Stew. What is the Question your Lordship would have asked him L. Stafford I will not ask it since 't is an offence but did not he say he said Mass pray how long ago was that Lord High Stew. I will ask him a Question Are not you a Protestant Mr. Smith Yes my Lord. Lord High Stew. How long have you been so Mr. Smith I have been a Protestant near upon two Years Lord High Stew. How long ago before were you perverted Mr. Smith Some six or seven Years Lord High Stew. That is nine Years That was I suppose about 71. Mr. Smith I was always bred a Protestant and was so abroad till I went towards Rome Lord High Stew. It is not criminal to have been a Priest if he have conformed L. Stafford I have no more to say to him Lord High Stew. Have you any more Questions to ask him L. Stafford No I never saw him before he may be as honest a Gentleman for ought I know as any one here Mr. Treby Then if your Lordship have no more Questions to ask him he may withdraw My Lords The next Witness we produce is to the general still and that is Mr. Stephen Dugdale Lord Stafford Is he only to speak to the general or to me Mr. Treby To the general we shall tell your Lordship
they have can in the least absolve me of my Allegigiance And I do acknowledge the King is my Soveraign and I ought to obey him as far as the Law of the Land obliges any Subject of his to obey him whether I have taken the Oath of Allegiance I appeal to your Lordships to be my Witnesses and if I did not take it a thousand times for my Allegiance to the King if required I think I should deserve a thousand Deaths and all the Torments in the world for refusing it My Lords These Gentlemen here did begin their Charge Serjeant Maynard and Sir Francis Winnington with telling your Lordships there was an horrid Design to murder the King to alter the Government and introduce the Popish Religon This they say was ingaged in by the Roman Catholicks that all the Church of Rome were the Contrivers of it for they tell your Lordships the whole Body hath been ingaged in it and they have given you many Proofs by Witnesses examined the first day of a General Plot what Credit you will give to them I leave to your Lordships in the end of the Case but still they said it was the Body of the Roman Catholicks in England or the Papists or what they call them that were the Plotters in this Design But I beseech your Lordships how am I concerned in it for I must say to your Lordships they have not offered one proof that I am of that Religion So that though any of you should have seen me at the Exercises of that Religion or otherwise know it of your selves yet if there be no Proof judicially before you you are not to take notice of it I have heard if a man be accused of a Crime and be to be tryed and no Evidence come in if every man of the Jury were sure that the Fact was done yet they must go upon the Evidence produced to them and not upon their own knowledge So then no Evidence being produced before your Lordships about my being a Papist you are not to take me for such an one But my Lords if I were of that Church and that were never so well proved too I hope I have an advantage in it that I have kept my self from being poysoned with so wicked a Principle or ingaged with the rest in so ill a thing My Lords I am here accused of having endeavoured to kill the King I find by the Law upon reading Sir Edward Coke since my Imprisonment That all Accusations of Treason ought to be accompanied with Circumstances antecedent concomitant and subsequent but I conceive my Lords there is no tittle of any such thing proved against me The whole compass of my life from my infancy hath been clear otherwise In the beginning of the late unhappy times the late King of happy and glorious memory did me the honour to make me a Peer and thinking that my presence might rather prejudice him than serve him my Wife and I settled at Antwerp when the War begun where I might have lived though obscurely yet safely but I was not satisfied in my Conscience to see my King in so much disorder and I not endeavour to serve him what I could to free him from his troubles And I did come into England and served his Majesty faithfully and loyally as long as he lived And some of your Lordships here know whether I did not wait upon the now King in his Exile from which he was happily restored which shews I had no ill intention then My Lords I hope this I have said does shew that my life hath given no countenance to this Accusation but clear contrary to what these I hope I may call them so and doubt not to prove them so perjured Villains say against me My Lords After I had this misfortune to be thus accused about a month or six weeks after your Lordships were pleased to send two Members of this honourable Body to me I do not see them at present here to examine me about the Plot they were my Lord of Bridgwater and my Lord of Essex if they be here I appeal to them what I did say These two after they had examined me told me they did believe and could almost assure me That if I would confess my Fault and let them know the particulars of it your Lordships would intercede with the King for my Pardon but I then as I ought asserted my own Innocency Not long after the King out of his Grace and Goodness to me sent six of the Council to the Tower to offer me That though I was never so guilty yet if I would confess I should have my Pardon I did then consider with my self I could not imagine what ground there was to believe your Lordships could have Evidence of what there was not to bring me in Guilty and thereupon I was so far from being able to make a Discovery that I could not invent any thing that might save my life if I would My Lords I was seven days in the Countrey after I heard of the Plot if I had known my self guilty I should surely have run away As I came to London when I was at Lichfield there met me two of my Lords They told me and so did a Gentleman of the House of Commons how much there was in the Plot which if I had had an hand in it would certainly make me fly for it I have ever heard when a man is accused or suspected of a Crime Flight is a great sign of Guilt and that it is often asked of the Jury though there be no certain positive Evidence of the Fact Whether a man fled or no As that is a sign of Guilt so Remaining is a sign of Innocency If then after Notice I come to Town and suffer my self to be taken if after Imprisonment and Accusation I refuse my Pardon and yet had been Guilty I ought to die for my Folly as well as my Crime My Lords 't is a great Offence to commit Treason and a great Addition to continue obstinate when upon Acknowledgment a man can save his life nay my Lords if I should have refused these Offers and yet known my self Guilty I had at the same time been guilty of one of the greatest Sins in the world as being the cause of my own Death And as I hold next to Treason Murder the greatest sin so I hold of all Murders Self-murder to be the greatest nay I do not think any man living can pardon that Sin of Murder And I do profess to your Lordships in the presence of Almighty God that if I could immediately by the Death of this impudent Fellow Dugdale who hath done me so much wrong make my self the greatest man in the world that is or ever was I profess before God I would not I cannot say my Charity is so great but that I should be glad to see him suffer those Punishments the Law can inflict upon him for his Crimes but his Death I would not have
enquiring where there was a conveniency to go over I heard that a Yatcht was sending to Diep for my Lord Stafford and Mr. Henry Sidney His Majesties Envoy Extraordinary now in Holland I took that occasion and we weighed Anchor on Friday the 24. of December and it being foul weather and we being tossed long upon the Sea we did not come to an Anchor before Diep till Sunday was sevennight at Two a Clock in the Afternoon which was January 2. Then I came with the Captain immediately ashoar to enquire for my Lord and Mr. Sidney I enquired for my Lord and they told me he was at Rohan expecting to hear of the arrival of the Yatcht upon which the Captain desired me to write a Letter to my Lord and I did so upon sight of which Letter he came to Diep on Tuesday in the Afternoon which was as I take it the 4. of January and we were at the Bastile there then together when he came that evening and the next day I went on my own occasions to Paris and my Lord and Mr. Sidney did come over together in the Yatcht L. Stafford If you please I will call my two Servants again to this matter Lord. High Steward Call them my Lord. Then Furnese and Leigh stood up Lord High Steward Which way came my Lord Stafford out of France into England by Diep or by Calice Furnese By Diep L. H. Steward What say you Boy which way came my Lord Leigh By Diep my Lords L. H. Steward You came with him Leigh Yes we did L. H. Stew. My Lord The Question is not whether you came by Calice or no but whether you writ a Letter to him to Diep that you would go by Calice Lord Stafford He swore yesterday that I did come by Calice L. H. Stew. Do you say my Lord came by Calice Mr. Turbervill My Lords I had a Letter from his Lordship which he wrote to me that he would come by Calice L. Stafford He did not name the Letter yesterday nor is 't in the Information L. H. Stew. Read the Affidavit The Information of Edward Turbervill of Skerr in the County of Glamorgan Gent. WHo saith That being a younger Brother about the Year 1672 he became Gentleman Usher to the Lady Mary Molineaux Daughter to the Earl of Powis and by that means lived in the House of the said Earl about three Years and by serving and assisting at Mass there grew intimate with William Morgan Confessor to the said Earl and his Family who was a Jesuit and Rector over all the Jesuits in North-Wales Shropshire and Staffordshire And he during the three years time often heard the said Morgan tell the said Earl and his Lady that the Kingdom was in a high Fever and that nothing but Blood-letting could restore it to Health and then the Catholick Religion would flourish Whereunto the said Earl many times replied It was not yet time but he doâ—â—ted not but such means should be used in due time or words to that effect And he heard the Lady Powis tell the said Morgan and others publickly and privately That when Religion should be restored in England which she doubted not but would be in a very short time she would persuade her Husband to give 300 l. per annum for a Foundation to maintain a Nunnery and this Informant was persuaded by the Lady Powis and the said Morgan to become a Fryar the said Lady enâ—ouraging this Informant thereunto by saying that if he would follow his Studies and make himself capable she questioned not but he might shortly be made a Bishop by her Interest in England because upon Restauration of the Catholick Religion there would want People fit to make Bishops and to do the Business of the Church and thereupon she gave this Informant Ten Pounds to carry him to Doway where this Informant entred the Monastery and continued about three weeks and with much difficulty made his escape thence and returned for England for which the said Earl and his Lady and all the rest that encouraged him to go to the Monastery became his utter Enemies threatning to take away his Life and to get his Brother to disinherit him which last is compassed against him And Father Cudworth who was than Guardian of the Fryars at Doway some days before his escape thence told this Informant That if he should not persevere with them he should lose his life and friends And further added That this King should not last long and that his Successor should be wholly for their purpose And Father Cross Provincial of the Fryars told this Informant That had he been at Doway when this Informant made his escape thence he should never have come to England And this Informant finding himself friendless and in danger in England went to Paris where one of his Brothers is a Benedictine Monk who persuaded this Informant to return for England and in order thereunto about the latter end of November 1675. he was introduced into the acquaintance of the Lord Stafford that he might go for England with his Lordship and three weeks he attended his Lordship and had great access and freedom with his Lordship who gave him great assurances of his Favour and Interest to restore him to his Relations esteem again And said That he had a piece of service to propose to this Informant that would not only retrieve his Reputation with his own Relations but also oblige both them and their Party to make him happy as long he lived And this informant being desirous to embrace so happy an Opportunity was very inquisitive after the means but the said Lord Stafford being somewhat difficult to repose so great a Trust as he was to communicate to him exacted all the Obligations and Promises of secresie which this Informant gave his Lordship in the most solemn manner he could invent Then his Lordship laboured to make this Informant sensible of all the advantages that would accrue to this Informant and the Catholick Cause and then told this Informant in direct terms that he might make himself and the Nation happy by taking away the Life of the King of England who was a Heretick and consequently a Rebel against God Almighty Of which this Informant desired his Lordship to give him time to consider and told his Lordship that he would give him his Answer at Diep where his Lordship intended to ship for England and to take this Informant with him but this Informant going before to Diep the Lord Stafford went with Count Gramont by Calice and sent this Informant orders to go for England and to attend his Lordship at London but this Informant did not attend his Lordship at London but went into the French service and so avoided the Lord Stafford's further importunities in that Affair And this Informant further saith That one Remige a French woman and vehement Papist who married this Informants Brother lived with the Lady Powis all the time this Informant resided there
to give some Reasons to your Lordships why those Laws that were against them should be repealed as well Protestant Dissenters as those of the Church of Rome and why they should have some kind of Toleration among whom you did permit those of the Romish Religion to appear too I forget their Names And I remember particularly one of the forts of them an Anabaptist I think did urge for a Reason that which is a great truth that they held Rebellion to be the Sin of Whitchcrast I believe it is as bad as any Sin can be My Lords that came to nothing at that time but my Lords I believe that after that all of all Religions had Meetings among themselves to endeavour to get that Toleration which they proposed humbly to your Lordships there I will never deny my Lords that my Opinion was and is that this Kingdom can never be happy till an Act of Parliament pass to this Effect it was my Opinion then and I did endeavour it all I could that the Dissenting Protestants might have a Comprehension and the other a Toleration I acknowledge it to be my Intention and I think it was no ill one for if that be a true Copy of the Commons Votes which is in Print there is some such thing designing there as a Comprehension and I was of Opinion that it were sufficient that such as were of the Church of Rome might by Act of Parliament serve God in their own Houses and privately in their own Way not in publick and that for it they should pay something to the King out of their Estates but truly not much That they should be severely punished if they or any of them did endeavour to persuade any Subject to their Opinion or did come to Court or enjoy any Office whatsoever though it were but that of a Scavenger but that they should pay their proportion to all chargeable Offices That I profess my Lords was my Opinion and I confess to your Lordships 't is so still I was in some hopes that it would have been done in that Sessions because I was afraid it was unlikely to be done at any time else I confess to your Lordships I was heartily and cordially against the Test because it hindred those just and honest things that were for the Good of the Kingdom My Lords there was the first or or the second Day brought into your Lordships House the Record of Mr. Coleman's Tryal and for the Letters in it I do my Lords declare to your Lordships I never read of one of them before but I have read them since they have been in Print And when I read them first cursorily over my Opinion was and is That Coleman's endavouring by Money out of France and keeping off the Parliament to get a Toleration was that which he could not justifie by Law how fat it was Criminal that I do not know I am not so skilled in the Law I think it was not justifiable but he hath paid for it severely since My Lords I do declare that ever since I had the Honour to fit among your Lordships which is now 40 Years for in the Year 1640. I was by His Majesties favour called up a Peer I have valued my self upon the Honour of sitting with you and I do declare when I have sat in this House when your Lordships have desired the King when it was hot weather and unseasonable to put off the Sitting of the Parliament I was never glad of it but sorry when they were prorogued but for a short time This I profess is true and I hope I am no Criminal in it for I do value the Parliaments Sitting to be the only means to keep this Kingdom quiet My Lords 'T is very true by Coleman's Letters and what I have seen in print since I do believe there have been some Consultations for a Toleration and if I had known as much then as I have since I have been in the Tower I had perhaps prevented many things for my Lords I hold England to be a great and an happy Body but it is as other great Bodies are it may be now as you know before it was over-grown or sick it was then and I pray God it be not now but I hold nothing can cure it but that old English Physician the King your Lordships and the Commons in Parliament assembled But if I had known any such Design as Coleman's Letters do hint I would not have continued in England My Lords For that damnable Opinion of King-killing if I were of any Church whatsoever and found that to be its Principle I would leave it My Lords this is as true as I can speak any thing in the world I beg your Lordships pardon for troubling you with my impertinencies and hope you pardon it to my weakness My Lords I do profess before Almighty God and before your Lordships my Judges I know no one tittle nor point of the Plot and if I did I hold my self bound to declare it For the present I shall say little more unless the Managers give me occasion if they will reply and make any Objections I desire I may answer them I know the great disadvantages I am under when these Gentlemen who are great Scholars and Learned Men reply upon me who have those great helps of Memory Parts and Understanding in the Law all which I want And therefore I hope your Lordships will dot conclude me upon what they or I have said but will be pleased to debate the matter among your selves and be as well my Counsel as my Judges My Lords when I offer to your Lordships matter of Law I did in no wise admit the matter of Fact Lord High Steward My Lord I cannot hear you Lord Stafford My Lords if your Lordships please that Paper may be read Lord High Steward Deliver your Paper in my Lords cannot hear Lord Stafford I cannot â—eny to your Lordships that what happened to me on Saturday night disturbed me very much Every day since I came â—â—ther there hath been such shouting and houting by a Company of barbarous Rabble as never was heard the like I believe but it was at a distance most of the time and so it did not much concern me But Saturday night it was so near and so great that really it hath disturbed me ever since it was great to day but at a distance if it were not thus I should not offer a Paper to be read I scarce know what I do or say considering the Circumstances I am in Lord High Steward Take my Lords Paper and read it Sir Thomas Lee. My Lords I desire you will please to consider whether this may not introduce a new Custom by reading of this Paper As to what my Lord is pleased to say I am sorry for the occasion that any disturbance should arise to my Lord from the Rabble or any one else I hope his Lordship believes we cannot help nor do we contribute to that