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A40689 The sovereigns prerogative and the subjects priviledge discussed betwixt courtiers and patriots in Parliament, the third and fourth yeares of the reign of King Charles : together with the grand mysteries of state then in agitation. England and Wales. Parliament.; Fuller, Thomas, 1608-1661. 1657 (1657) Wing F2467; ESTC R16084 264,989 306

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Throne sit the Lights of Justice your grave Iudges and Sages of the Law learned and just as many Ages have known and learning justice by your example Our Lawes as excellent as they are I am sure no humane Lawes excell them nor could so well suite with the constitution of this People were they in the power of corrupt or ignorant men I know not which were worse for one will perhaps oftner erre then the other bribe Justice could never keep her right chanel nor runne cleare as in your Majestie 's reigne it ever hath I must not forget the other Lights the Knights Citizens and Burgesses the Representative of their Estate who although they move lower and at more distance from your royall Person yet I am confident will ever be found constant to the Poles of Love and Loyaltie 'T is a gracious Favour of your Majestie and our former Kings I have often thought on that when both these Houses are humble suitors for any thing they are never denyed Le Roy s'aviserà The King will advise of it is the greatest denyall And I assure my self your Majestie shall finde all your Subjects so full of dutie to your Crown and of true and loyall affection to your royall Person that you shall never have cause to think your gracious Favours ill bestowed on them The Union of Hearts Sir is a greatnesse beyond that of the Kingdome to which you are Heire Et penitus toto divisos orbe Britannos it is a Name of advantage to this Island if the Division be not amongst our selves which the God of Unitie for his mercies sake forbid and so knit our Hearts in love one to another and all of us in duty and loyalty to your most excellent Majestie that this renowned Island perish not by our Distractions but may ever flourish and be like Ierusalem the Citie of God where his Name may be for ever honoured Great and glorious have been the Actions of your royal Predecessours yet greater remaine for your Majestie and most of theirs attend you for their perfection The first Christian King of Europe the first that abated the swelling pride of Rome by banishing his usurped power and God's true Vice-gerent the first that established the true Religion now profest were all Kings of England and the last a young one Queen Elizabeth was a woman yet Spaine hath cause to remember her the Protestants of France and the Low-Countries will never forget her And were Henry the Great alive he would say That in requitall of the love of this Kingdome shewed him he hath sent us one of his owne Loynes your royall Consort our most gracious Queen to propagate these blessings to us and our posteritie for ever Your royall Father of ever blessed and famous memorie had a Reigne like Solomon's for Religion no man knew more a lustre or advantage to him this Age shall deliver it to the next and all Ages shall see it in his Kingly Workes But while under his glorious Reigne we abode in peace and plenty our hands had forgot to warre and our fingers to fight till at last by your Princely mediation upon the humble suite of both these Houses the two Treaties were dissolved and a foundation laid for your Majestie to restore us to our antient and Military honour which I doubt not will quickly be Eritis sicut Dii was the Serpent's Counsell and ruined Mankinde nor is it fit for private men much lesse for me to search into the Counsells or Actions of Kings Onely Sir give me leave from an heart full of zeale to your glorie and greatnesse to say to your Majestie the Times require you Religion calls upon you to goe on with that Kingly Courage you have begune till the state of Christendome be settled in the right Balance again We see how the Eagle spreads his wings in Germany reaching with his talons as farre as the Sound and Baltick sea Denmark and Sweden in danger of utter ruine by seizing the Electorates the choice of the Empire invested in a manner solely in the House of Austria Our Religion in France and every where never so neare a period And we know who it is for whom all this works he of whom the boast is made Allà qui Monarqui nasciendo d'el monendo who by the ruine of us and our Religion will make a new Zodiack and draw an Ecliptick line through the East and West Indies But he that sits on high will in his good time laugh them to scorne and as that wife Woman said to King David God will make to my Lord the King a sure house if my Lord shall continue to fight the battels of Iehovah and let all England say Amen I have presumed too farre upon your royall Patience and therefore I will conclude with a few words for them that sent me who are humble suitours to your excellent Majestie First for our better attending the publick and important services that our selves and our necessary Attendants may be free both in our persons and goods from all arrests and troubles according to our ancient priviledge and immunities Next that since that in all great Councells where difference of opinion is truth is best discovered by free debates your Majestie according to our like ancient use and priviledge will be graciously pleased to allow us liberty and freedome of speech and I assure my self we shall not passe the latitude of duty and discretion That upon all occurrences of moment fit for resort to your owne person your Majestie upon humble suit at your best leisure will vouchsafe us accesse to your royall person And lastly that all our proceedings being lodged in your royall heart with belief of our zeal and loyalty we may reap the fruits of it by your Majestie 's gracious and favourable interpretation One word more I humbly begg for myself That though it be the beginning of a Parliament I may now and ever enjoy your Majestie 's most gracious and generall free Pardon The Lord Keeper Coventry's second Reply M r. Speaker HIs Majestie with no lesse content then attention hath heard your learned Discourse he observes your beginning with his gracious incouragement and advice not forsaking your humble modestie but adding to it thankfulnesse alacrity and joy of heart a just and right temper He observes you derive these aright first from the Throne in heaven he lookes thither with you and joynes in prayer that both you and all this Assemblie by that Divine hand and power be moulded and procured for the honour safety and good of the Church and Kingdome Next you apply your self to the Throne on earth his Majestie doth graciously accept your protestations of the truth of your heart the fulnesse of your zeale and duty to his Majestie and the Publick he believes it and that not in you alone but in all this Assembly so that you are secure not onely from wilfull and pregnant errours but from doubt of sinister interpretation My Lord the
the Communion Tables stood as Tables in Ale-houses but he would have them to be set as High Altars Dr. Moor is to deliver these things in writing to Morrow morning At the Committee for Religion SIr William Bawstrod If we now speak not we may for ever hold our peace when besides the Queens Mass there are two other Masses dayly so that it is grown ordinarie with the out-facing Iesuits and common in discourse Will you go to Mass or have you been at Mass at Somerset-house there coming 500 at a time from Mass. Desires to know by what authoritie the Iesuits lately in Newgate were released Mr. Corington Doubts not but his Majesties intention was good in the Declaration lately published but I conceive it will be made use of onely to our disadvantage that therefore the Declaration made be taken into consideration Sir Richard Gravenor REports the proceedings of this House against Poperie the last Session and what fruits have been thereon Sir Rober Phillips If ever there were a necessitie of dealing plainly and freely this is the time There is an Admission of Priests and Iesuits as if it were in Spain or France this increase of Papists is by connivance of persons in Authoritie Nine hundred and fourtie persons in houses of Religion being English Irish and Scots in the Netherlands maintained by the Papists of England and of this I shall deliver the particulars that we may frame a Remonstrance to the King that unless there be some better performance of his Majesties late answers to so many Petitions our Religion will be past recoverie Mr. Corington That the Papists by Act of Parliament or Laws of State may be removed from their offices which we have just cause to suspect Mr. Selden moveth that these things may be debated in order and first for releasing the Iesuits that were arraigned at Newgate whereof one was condemned they were 10 in number which were Priests who had begun a Colledge here in London about Clarkenwell and these men could not attempt these acts of boldness but they must have great countenancers Secretarie Cook THat a Minister who is said to be himself having notice of these 10 and this Colledge intended to be kept at Clarkenwell That it is plain there was a place appointed for this Colledge and Orders and Relicts prepared This Minister made the King acquainted with it and I should not do my dutie if I should not declare how much his Majestie was affected with it His Majestie refers it to the special care of the Lords of the Councell who examining the same sent these ten persons to Newgate and gave order to Mr. Attorney to prosecute the Law against them That this Colledge was first at Edmonton removed from thence to Camerwell and thence to Clerkenwell Ordered That all the Knights and Burgesses of the House shall to Morrow morning declare their knowledge what Letters or other hinderances have been for the staying of proceedings against Recusants Mr. Long a Justice of Peace who is said to understand much in the business of the Colledge of Iesuits at Clarkenwell is sent for and examined saith by the appointment of Mr. Secretarie Cook he apprehended these persons and took their Examinations and saith further he heard they were delivered out of Newgate by order from Mr. Attorney That Mr. Middlemore or General Soliciter for the Papists hired this house for the Lord of Shrewsburie a Papist and that there are diverse books of account of payments and disbursments to the value of 300 pounds per Annum with diverse Recusants names who allowed towards the maitenance of this Colledge and these books and papers are in the hand of Mr. Secretary Cook Secretarie Cook saith he cannot so amply declare the truth of the proceedings herein untill he have leave from his Majestie One Cross a Pursevant is to be examined upon oath who declareth he could discover diverse stoppages of the execution of the Laws against Recusants Saturday 14. A Complaint against the Lord Lambert a Baron of Ireland and a Member of this House who being a Colonel of Souldiers in Midd. hath imposed Four pence upon every Souldier towards his Officers Charges and the Petitioner for refusing to pay was first set in the Stocks and after by the Lord Lambert committed to a Publick prison It is Ordered that the Lord Lambert shall be sent for to answer this Sir Iohn Epsley desireth leave to answer a Complaint that is in the Lords house of Parliament against him Mr Selden That the use was and citeth Presidents that no Commander could be called to the Lords House but it will trench much to the disadvantage of the Priviledge of this House and untill 18. Iac. there was never President to the contrarie That therefore this may be considered of by a select Committee Ordered that Sir Iohn Epsley shall not have leave Mr. Chancellor of the Dutchie stifly secondeth Mr. Seldens Motion Mr. Secretarie Cook I am as carefull to maintain a good correspondencie with the Lords as any man but connivances in this kind may overthrow the fundamental Rights and Liberties of this House Let it therefore seriously be considered of for this not onely concerneth the Right of this House but the Libertie of the Common-wealth Ordered a select Committee shall be appointed to consider this Mr. Chancellor of the Dutchie delivereth an answer in writing from the Lord Chancellor Trer. and Barons to the Message sent to them Mr. Kirton WE looked for Satisfaction but now you see a Justification of their actions I therefore desire now we may proceed to consider of their proceedings and whether ever the Court of Exchequer held this course before for staying of Replevies and whether these have been done by the Regal Prerogative of the King in his Court of Exchequer It is Ordered that a select Committee of Lawyers Chequer-men shall take this into consideration Mr. Selden We have delayed the proceeding with the Customers expecting some good success from the Chequer but finding it otherwise I desire the Customers may be called to the Barre on Munday next Which is Ordered At the Committee for Religion SIr Thomas Hobbie from the Committee reported for the examination of the Keeper and Clerk of Newgate concerning the Priests there being a Warrant under the Attorneys hand for the deliverie of the Persons a Warrant under the Lord Chief Justices hand according to a Letter which he received from the Lord of Dorset signifying that it was his Majesties pleasure that the Priest condemned should be reprived Another Warrant under the Attorneys hand that the Priests condemned should be reprived and also in the Kings name to release those other nine persons Sir Nathaniel Ritch I am confident the Grace of the King hath been abused in this that therefore the privie Counsellers of this House may know whether it were his Majesties direction It is moved that Mr. Secretarie Cook may first declare his knowledge in this One Cross gave intimation of these persons First
King not willing to deny his People People not willing to presse their King to a deniall the one wise and modest in their requests and the other moderate and sweet in the answer This is the ancient and right way of union in Parliament The God of unity keep it in this and all insuing Parliaments This union you rightly call the union of Hearts and a greatnesse beyond the Kingdomes which the King inherits so then its a present fit for a wise people to offer to their gracious King Wise and magnanimous Kings are a speciall gift from God having hearts capable of greatnesse union of hearts is greatest and greatnesse was never unwelcome to Kings and therefore present and offer it to your King you cannot doubt of acceptance Having spoken of union you fall presently into a memoriall of the great and glorious actions of his Majestie 's Predecessours and into the height and contemplation of greater that remain If I mistake not your meaning you would have it understood that the union of Prince and people make way to those remarkable acts of former times and that we that wish the like successe in our time should look back upon our Forefathers Wisdome requires it Honour and the Time requires it that we should shew our selves the sonnes of our Auncestours at least in holding that which they left us The pride of Rome abated as you say by England now lifts up her horns against Religion Gods vine planted and deeply rooted here overspread into our neighbour Countreys hath of late lost many of her goodly branches The Austrian Eagle that wanted feathers till of late now soares and preys at will over all Spain so often foiled by us hath by disguised treaties dispoiled of their patrimonie those princely Branches of our royall Cedar and posts apace to his universall Monarchy to the ruine of us our Friends and Religion God hath his time and I trust a time to stop thier course I know not but we may expect it as well now as ever There is a resolution in our King and there is I trust for I am sure there was a resolution in our Parliament for great actions Our king as he hath a Solomon so hath he many Davids in the glorious catalogue of his royall Descent and hath linked himself in the House of Henry the Great and he bears a glorious and auspicious name sutable to his thoughts and desires and therefore since Honour and Religion call for it and since you have incouraged him to fight Iehovah's battels let all put to their hands that our King and Nation may have the honour to set Christendome in her right Balance And now to come to the petitions you have made for the House his Majestie most graciously and readily grants them all according to your true and ancient Rights and Priviledges of Parliament which his Majestie trusts you will have care not to exceed or transgresse and therefore you may go chearfully together and speedily settle about the publick affairs And the almighty God prosper the works of your hands I say the almighty God prosper your handy-work M r. Goodwin's Speech March 22. 1627. Mr. Speaker IT hath pleased his Majestie in his last Speech to intimate unto us the cause of our meeting which is supply against the great and common dangers that threaten the ruine of this Kingdome and the time of our sitting cannot be long and therefore he wisheth to avoid tedious resolutions In conformity whereunto I propound that laying aside all other matters we addresse our selves to that for which we were called hither wherein as in the first place we have well begun in our pious humiliation towards almighty God so let us now proceed to serve and to supply the king yet so as we satisfie our Countrey that sent us hither and preserve our Rights and Priviledges which have as surely been broken and infringed as undoubtedly they belong to us S r. Francis Seymour's Speech March 22. 1627. THis is the great Councel of the Kingdome and here if not here alone his Majestie may see as in a true glasse the state of the Kingdome We are all called hither by his Majestie 's writs to give him faithfull counsel such as may stand with his honour but that we must do without flatterie and chosen by the Commons to deliver up their just grievances and this we must do without fear Let us not be like Cambyses Judges who being demanded of him concerning something unlawfull said Though there were no written Law the Persian Kings might do what they list This was base flatterie fitter for reproof then imitation and as flatterie so fear taketh away the judgement For mine own part I shall shun both these and speak my conscience with as much duty to his Majestie as any man not neglecting the Publick But how can we speak our affections while we retein our fears or speak of giving till we know whether we have any thing to give or not For if his Majestie shall be perswaded to take what he will what need we to give That this hath been done appeareth by the billetting of Souldiers a thing no way advantageous to his service and a burthen to the Common-wealth the imprisonment of Gentlemen for the Loane who if they had done the contrary for fear their faults had been as great as theirs who were Projectours in it To countenance these proceedings hath it not been preached in the pulpit or rather prated All we have is the Kings But when they forsake their own calling and turn ignorant States-men we see how willing they will be to change a good conscience for a Bishoprick It is too apparent the people suffer more now then ever will you know the true reason we shall find those Princes have been in greatest wants and necessities that have exacted most from their Subjects The reason is plain A Prince is strongest by faithful and wise Counsel I would I could truly say such had been imployed abroad I speak this to this end to shew the defect proceeded not from this House I must confesse he is no good Subject that would not willingly and freely lay down his life when the End may be the service of his Majestie and the good of the Common-wealth But he is no good Subject but a slave that will have his goods taken from him against his will and his Liberty against the Laws of the Kingdome In doing this we shall but tread the steps of our Fore-fathers who still preferred the publick interest before their own rights nay before their own lives It will be a wrong to Us to our Posterities to our Consciences if we shall forgo this This we shall do well to present to his Majestie I offer this in the generall thinking the particulars fitting for Committees What I may now say or shall then I submit to better Judgements S r. Thomas VVentworth's Speech March 22. 1627. MAy this dayes resolution be as happy as I conceive the Proposition
Majestie thereof and with bleeding hearts and bended knees to crave such speedy redress therein as to your own wisdom unto which we humbly submit our selves and our desires shall seem most meet and convenient what the multitude and potency of your Majesties Enemies are abroad what be their malitious and ambitious ends and how vigilant and constantly industrious they are in pursuing the same is well known to your Majesty Together with the dangers threatned thereby to your sacred Person and your Kingdoms and the calamity which hath already fallen and doth dayly increase upon your Friends and Allies of which we are all well assured your Majesty is most sensible and will accordingly in your own great wisdom and with the gravest and most mature Councel according to the exigency of the times and occasions provide by all means to prevent and help the same To which end we most humbly intreat your Majesty first and especially to cast your eyes upon the miserable condition of this your own Kingdom of late so strangely weakned impoverished dishonoured and dejected That unless through your Majesties most gracious wisdom goodness and Justice it be speedily raised to a better condition it is in no little danger to become a sudden prey to the Enemies thereof And of the most happy and flourishing to be the most miserable and contemptible Nation in the World In the discovery of which dangers mischiefs and inconveniences lying upon us we do freely protest that it is far from our thoughts to lay the least aspercion upon your Majesties sacred Person or the least scandal upon your Government for we do in all sincerity and with all joyfulness of heart not onely for our selves but in the name of the whole Commons of England whom we represent ascribe as much honour to your Majesty and acknowledge as much duty as a most loyal and affectionate people can do unto the best King for so you are and so you have been pleased abundantly to express your self this present Parliament by your Majesties clear and satisfactory answer to our Petition of Right for which both we our selves and our posterities shall bless God for you and ever preserve a thankfull memory of your great goodness and Justice therein and we do verily believe that all or most of those things which we shall now present unto your Majesty are either unknown unto your Majesty or else by some of your Majesties Ministers offered under such specious pretences as may hide their own bad intentions ill consequence of them from your Majesty But we assure our selves that according to the good example of your most noble Predecessors nothing can make your Majesty being a Wise and Judicious Prince and above all things desirous of the welfare of your people more in love with Parliaments then this which is one of the principal ends of calling them that therein you may be truely informed of the State of all the several parts of your Kingdom and how your Officers and Ministers do behave themselves in discharge of the trust reposed in them by your Majesty which is scarce possible to be made known unto you but in Parliament as was declared by your blessed Father when he was pleased to put the Commons in Parliament assembled in minde that it would be the greatest unfaithfulness and breach of duty to his Majesty and of the trust committed to them by their Countrey that could be if in setting forth the grievances of the people and the condition of all the parts of this Kingdom from whence they came they did not deal clearly with him without sparing any how near and deer soever they were unto him if they were hurtfull or dangerous to the Common-wealth In confidence therefore of your Majesties gracious acceptation in a matter of so high importance and in faithfull discharge of our duties we do first of all most humbly beseech your Majesty to take notice that howsoever we know your Majesty doth with your Soul abhor that any such thing should be imagined or attempted yet there is a general fear conceived in your people of some secret working and combination to introduce into this your Kingdom innovacion and change of our holy Religion more precious to us then our lives and what ever this World can affoard Our fears and jealousies herein are not meerly conjectural but arising out of such certain and visible effects as may demonstrate a true and real cause For notwithstanding the many good and wholsom Laws and provisions made to prevent the increase of Popery within this Kingdom and notwithstanding your Majesties gracious and satisfactorie answer to the Petition of both Houses in that behalf presented unto your Majestie at Oxford we finde there hath followed no good execution or effect but on the contrary at which your Majestie out of the quick sence of your own Religious heart cannot but be in the highest measure displeased those of that Religion do finde extraordinarie favours and respects in Court from Persons of great quality and power there unto whom they continually resort and in particuler to the Countess of Buckingham who her self openly professing that Religion is a known favourer and supporter of them that do the same which we well hoped upon your Majesties answer to the aforesaid Petition of Oxford should not have been permitted nor that any of your Majesties Subjects of that Religion or justly to be suspected should be entertained in the service of your Majesty or of your Royal consort the Queen some likewise of that Religion have had Honours Offices and places of Command and Authority lately conferred upon them But that which striketh the greatest terrour into the hearts of your Loyal Subjects concerning this point is That Letters of stay of Legal proceedings against them have been procured from your Majesty by what indirect means we know not and Commissions under the great Seal granted and executed for compositions to be made with Popish Recusants with inhibitions and restraints both to the Ecclesiastical and Temporal Courts and Officers to intermeddle with them which is conceived to amount to no less then a toleration odious to God full of dishonour and extream disprofit to your Majestie of great scandal and grief to your good people and of apparent danger to the present estate of your Majestie and of this Kingdom their numbers power and insolencies dayly increasing in all parts of your Kingdom and in special about London and the Suburbs thereof where exceeding many families of them do make their aboad and publickly frequent Mass at Denmark House and other places and by their often meetings and conferences have opportunities of combining their counsels and strength together to the hazard of your Majesties safety and the State and especially in these doubtfull and calamitous times And as our fear concerning change or subversion of Religion is grounded upon the dayly increase of Papists the open and professed enemies thereof for the reasons formerly mentioned so are the hearts of your