two more instances one of Dr. Heylins imaginary Victories the other of his contrariety to other writers whom he sometimes quotes with applause Lib. 8. Pag. 283. He acquaints us that Dr. Bancroft made a most excellent and judicious Sermon let that pass he gives us the heads of that Sermon saying pag. 284 That they were all proved with such evidence of demonstration such great variety of Learning and strength of arguments that none of all that party could be found to take arms against them in defence either of their leud doctrine or more scandalous Vses All this with bitterness and malice more than enough but with no regard to truth for Dr. John Reynolds at the desire of Sir Francis Knowles did attaque that so much applauded Sermon of Feb. 9th at St. Pauls Cross and pulled down two of the main pillars viz. The superiority which Bishops have among us over their Clergy is Gods own ordinance 2. Jerome and Calvin confess that Bishops have had superiority ever since the time of St. Mark the Evangelist The Letter of Dr. Reynolds in which he doth this is in many mens hands and the Historian doubtless had if not seen yet heard of it and therefore was inexcusable in representing Dr. Bancroft to be so formidable an adversary that none durst look him in the face Let those who account Dr. Bancrofts Sermon unanswerable reply to Dr. Reynolds his Letter and if it be thought that Dr. Reynolds hath not refuted all the passages of the Sermon let us know what the particulars be that still remain unanswered and yet need an answer and if after such notice given such terror seize on Presbyterians that none dare appear let the Sermon then be carried about in triumph till then I hope it will be no presumption to say that Dr. Reynolds as well understood the judgment of the Fathers concerning Episcopacy as Dr. Bancroft The instance of his contradicting others shall be part of the story concerning the infamous separatist Browne Sir George Paul in the life of Archbishop VVhitgift Pag. 53 acquaints us that Brown in the Archbishops time was changed from his fancies and after obtained a benefice called Achurch in Northamptonshire where he became a painful Preacher But Dr. Heylin Lib. 7. Pag. 297. tells us he was prevailed with to accept a place Achurch in Northamptonshire beneficed with cure of Souls a benefice of good value which might tempt him to it the rather in regard that he was excused as well from Preaching as from performing any other part of the publick Ministry Certainly if he became a painful Preacher there was no need of excusing him from Preaching But who is in the truth I think neither the Knight nor the Doctor painful Preacher to be sure Brown never was after his presentation to Achurch nor is it probable that he was excused from Preaching any more than from living quietly with his Wife Bishops have strained their power very high but I am unwilling to believe that any Prelate since our Reformation would institute a man healthful and able to Preach into a cure of Souls and yet excuse him from all parts of the publick Ministry Nay thirdly If men take the field against the Nonconformists before they have sufficiently tried their strength they may chance to be mastered by these arguments they imagined themselves able to master and so even face about in the day of battel fighting against those from whom they received their first pay Mr. Henry Jeanes had never seen a Nonconformist using his own weapon and therefore thought him contemptible and adventured to defie him in a Printed Treatise upon 1 Thes 5.22 But when he came to Read the very Books of the Nonconformists themselves he found himself no longer able to withstand the dint of their arguments but went over to them and died their Convert as all know who were his Neighbour Ministers some Papists by reading Protestant Books with an intent to confute them have been converted by them and therefore the Grandees in the Roman Church will not give leave to one of a thousand to Read all manner of Books nay in some places they will scarcely permit Bellarmines works to be commonly sold lest that little which is in them of Calvin should purge all Catholocism out of their young Students I wish the Prelates of our Church would consider how far the prudence of Papacy is imitable certainly every one who is willing to have a Prebendship from them is not able to stand under the weight and burden that is laid upon Episcopacy If our Church must be vindicated let it be vindicated by another Hooker made up of learning and modesty as for Mr. Durel if he have got a lask and must needs ease himself in the Press it may be worth consideration whether he be not fit to succeed to Tom Nash whose scoffing Pen was not altogether useless in Queen Elizabeths days I had almost added that he who will to purpose defend our Church must not be a Jersey man not only because such a one can scarce be supposed sully to know the intrigues of our differences but also because it can scarce be thought that he should be conscientiously a friend to our Hierarchy for we are not now to be told that the Episcopal Government setled here in England could not get into Jersey but by wile if not force Jersey Guernsey c. are the only remainders of the Crown of England in the Dukedom of Normandy and in former times belonged to the Jurisdiction of the Bishop of Constance but were governed immediately by a subordinate Officer mixt of a Chancelor and Archdeacon they entertained the Reformed Religion in King Edwards time and some of their Inhabitants suffered for it in the time of Queen Mary Queen Elizabeth reigning by the help of some French Ministers the generality were again brought to seek after Reformation but withall Petition the Queen for an allowance of the Presbyterian Discipline Anno 1563 and Anno 1565 obtain it for all or some part of the Islands on which allowance they adventure to put it in execution and hold a Synod in the Isle of Guernsey Sep. 2. 1567. Nor do I find that they had any considerable disturbance in it till Sir John Peiton was made their Governour who with the Kings Attorney protested against that choice of Mr. Brevin which was made by the Colloquy upon the decease of the Curate of St. Johns the ground of the Protestation was the prejudicialness of such Elections to the Rights and Profits of the King deprived thereby of Vacancies and first Fruits This Protestation though over-ruled for a season wrought so effectually that about 1615 the Governour presented one Mr. Messering to the Parish of St. Peters this Messering had been ordained Priest by Dr. Bridges Bishop of Oxford but his presentation was so offensive to the Colloquy that Governour and Ministers appear before King James referring the whole concernment to his Majesties final Judgment and the
standing Presbyterians commended to their people and never practised unless in case of infirmity any other gesture in praying that ever I heard of and yet I have made enquiry But it was necessary that Mr. D. should draw them like Devils or else he could not have made them abhorred Could a man but obtain leave of his conscience to lay open the irreverence of the Episcopal Assemblies what stories might he tell More I am sure than Mr. D. would be willing to hear I believe there is not an honest heart but akes to consider the rudeness of the admirers of our Liturgy in their addresses to God whether in the Church or in their own houses I speak of the vulgar sort of them put on their Hats they do not but they usually sit on their seats at publick Prayer and which is worse stare up and down to see who comes in and who goes out of the Church if their Landlord chance to come in in the midst of their Devotion up they rise and make their obeisance Follow them to their Houses there you may observe them to truss and pray to wash their Faces and to say their Prayers I once met with an old man who had been bred up to Liturgies all his days dealing with him about his Soul I found he never prayed any thing at home but the Lords-Prayer and that he never repeated that Prayer till he was first got into his bed and he told me he thought no man in England used any other posture in saying his Prayers And I was told by a Minister whom I dare believe that he hapned at an Inn to lie in the same Chamber with a man of a good estate who waking in the morning and thinking the Divine to be asleep gets out of his bed takes his Doublet and Breeches falls to dressing himself but whilest he dressed himself he said the general confession and the absolution in the Common-Prayer-Book when he was beginning the Lords-Prayer then he took the Chamber-pot into his hand and did it may be imagined what Here 's irreverence with a witness I charge it not on Episcopacy yet I may with a better conscience than Mr. D. chargeth the not putting off of Hats at Prayer on Presbytery or Presbyterian Nonconformists He that would know what outward reverence they require in the worship of God and upon what reasons they build it and how necessary they account it and what thoughts they have of those who use it not may inform himself from Mr. Arthur Hildershams plain but very solid discourse on the fourth of St. John He that hath not the Book by him may find much quoted out of him by Dr. Nicholat Bernard in his discourse of a set form of Prayer Printed 1659. And now that I am fallen upon Mr. D's forty fourth page it may not be amiss to advert that he fears not to say all the Reformed world over no man that is not a notorious ill-liver is debarred from the Sacrament what will he be afraid to say that fears not to say this Is there no reformed Church that debars any but a notorious ill-liver from the Sacrament Certainly it is not necessary that he who danceth should be a notorious ill liver and yet Mr. D. knows where any that can be proved to have danced would be kept from the Sacrament He that should turn Pelagian may be no notorious ill-liver yet such a one would be kept from the Sacrament in most if not in all reformed Churches so would he also that should not be satisfied to bring his Child to Baptism and yet I imagine such a one need not be a notorious ill-liver Suppose an English Protestant should think it irreverence to receive the Sacrament not kneeling such a man if Mr. D. be to be believed cannot be admitted to the Sacrament in France yet such a one may lead a life not notoriously scandalous By a Canon of our own Church the communion is to be administred to none but such as kneel nor to any but such as be present at publick Prayers according to the orders of the Church yet I know some such who are far enough from being notorious ill livers I am almost certain that there is scarce a reformed Church whose Principles and Rules of discipline do not debar such from Sacramental communion as are no notorious ill livers I wish I were as certain that no Reformed Churches did contrary to their own Rules of discipline admit such as are notorious ill-livers then I should promise my self that Christ would with more delight walk among his golden Candlesticks P. 185. Whatever be the reason of it Our Liturgy hath no other Enemies abroad where it is well known but the Papists This is an untruth as might be proved by a thousand instances But let us see the occasion of it that we have in the same Page The Magistrate of Paris his stopping the Printing and forbidding the publishing of the English Liturgy whereas that of Geneva is dayly Printed and sold there the reason he thinks could be no other but a fear that it would be better liked by most Christians that have either judgment learning or true piety and are void of superstition peevishness extravagant zeal and prophaneness be they of what perswasion soever This is not very charitable all or most that are not either superstitious peevish extravagantly zealous and prophane will better like the English than the Geneva Liturgy If after this the French Ministers do not Petition their King that they may exchange the Geneva for the English Liturgy they know their doom Perhaps Mr. D. will plead that the French living in France would be denied the use of the English Liturgy Translated into their own Language though they should desire it But what will he say to those French Churches that are scattered up and down in this Nation they are not sure quite void of judgment learning true piety yet it is known that they when they might have had thanks from Archbishop Laud if they would have received the English Liturgy for the French which they had been accustomed to did not care for receiving of it but used all possible endeavours to keep themselves in statu quo Dr. Heylin relates the History of their wrestlings against the introduction of our Liturgy among them from him Mr. D. may take it at his leisure If I have not forgot since I read it one argument made use of to keep the Metropolitan from pressing them to Conformity was drawn from the just fear there was that by so rigorous calling for Uniformity the Christian King might be moved to persecute his Protestant Subjects for Cardinal Richlieu had given out such a speech If the King of England being a Protestant will not suffer two disciplines why should the King of France being a Papist suffer two Religions A shrewd speech and well to be thought on by any Metropolitan that shall go about to bring all foreign Churches to comply with our
was too too Antipuritanical perfectly in Religion of the same mind with Cassander and Baldwin whose Character need not be given Doubtless had there been either clear proof or vehement suspition that Mr. Carthwright was accessary to the compiling of the gaping Gulph he had not escaped some signal token of the Queens displeasure for her Majesty was so highly incensed against the Author Printer and Publisher of it that nothing less would satisfie her than arraignment of them upon the Statute of Philip and Mary against the Authors and Dispersers of seditious writings and because some of her chief Lawyers were of opinion That that law was but temporary and of no force in her reign she imprisoneth one of them and turns another out of his place and prevailed so far that both Stubbes and Page who dispersed the Copies had sentence passed upon them to lose their right hands which accordingly were cut off in the market-place of Westminster with a Butchers knife and a Mallet but it is observed by more than one of our Historians that when Stubbes his right hand was cut off he did pull off his Hat with his left hand and cry out God save the Queen and the people by a general silence gave their Testimony that the punishment was too severe Nor did the Queen her self take much pleasure in reflecting on this penalty but rather when the heat of passion was over received Stubbes into some degree of favour as is probable from the imployment that he had under Peregrine Lord Willoughby sent by the Queen with four thousand Soldiers to assist the King of Navar in which imployment he ended his days but by a natural death Secondly if our Writers for Conformity know not the State of the controversies and the times in which they were managed they will go near to contradict one another and will it not make the Nonconformists good sport to see their adversaries at dissension among themselves Could Mr. Durells English Book have been more effectually confuted by any writing than by Dr. Heylins History of Presbyterians Dr. Stradling licenseth a Book tending to prove that the Presbyterians in England are a singular sort of men as contrary to the Presbyterians beyond the Seas as to their own Bishops at home the Vicechancellor of Oxford licenseth a Book designed to prove that all Presbyterians all the reformed Churches over are all acted by one spirit equally prone to sedition and schisme alike bent to destroy all Kingdoms and Churches into which they are received Will not the Presbyterians say Aha! so would we have it will they not even bless themselves in these contradictions of their adversaries Dr. Heylin saith Lib. 7. Pag. 275. Whitgift dissected Carthwrights admonition in a Book entituled An answer to the Admonition Carthwright sets out a reply in the year following and Whitgift presently rejoyns in defence of his Answer against which Carthwright never stirred but left him Master of the field possest of all the signs of an absolute Victory But Sir George Paul saith Mr. Carthwright glorying be-like to have the last word published a second reply fraught with no other stuff than had been before refuted from answering of which Whitgift was disswaded Will not such sweet concord as this make delicate Musick in the ears of the Nonconformists Especially considering that the Letter of Whitaker mentioned by the Doctor is pretended by the Knight to be one of the main inducements moving Whitgift not to rejoyn to the second reply And let me admonish the Conformists not much to glory in Whitakers letter reflecting so much disgrace on Carthwrights Book seeing Whitaker was then 1. Under thirty years of age 2. Never dreamed that his Letter should be made publick 3. Afterwards married the Widow of Dudly Fennor 4. In those writings which were the product and issue of his more mature judgment and study layeth down such principles as the Nonconformists think their conclusions do naturally and lineally descend from 5. Died in over-straining his diligence to suppress the Pelagian notions of Peter Baro so much now-adays applauded and admired Certainly if they are to be accounted Victors who keep the field last the Nonconformists have at least as many Victors as the Conformists though we should grant that Whitgift had the last word of Carthwright which yet is not to be granted But doth not Mr. Fuller say in his Ecclesiastical History he had Answer He doth but I have been assured that being before Olivers triers for a living he ingenuously acknowledged his error and promised to certifie it if ever his Book came to a second Edition which I therefore give notice of that it may proceed no further and that Mr. Isaac Walton who is still alive and hath fallen into the same mistake in his life of Mr. Hooker Pag. 85. may disabuse his Reader The which if he will vouchsafe to do we shall have encouragement to try whether we cannot acquaint him with some more of his mistakes and misadventures In the mean time I should be glad to understand what assurance can be given us that Bishop Jewel ever used such words concerning Carthwright as those mentioned by Dr. Heylin Lib. 7. Pag. 274. and elsewhere viz. Stultitia nata est in corde pueri sed virga disciplinae fugabit eam for it seems improbable that so grave a Prelate should give so unhandsome a character of a very learned man concerning whom he could make no estimation but by a few scattered papers designed for a Book that saw not the light till Jewel was entred into the chambers of Darkness All that I can see any ground to acknowledg at present is but this that Jewel both in a Sermon at Paul's and in a conference with some Brethren had declared himself to be an approver of the English ceremonies and that being ready to leave the world he declared that what he uttered in his Sermon and conference was designed neither to please any mortal nor to embitter or trouble any party that thought otherwise than himself but that neither party might prejudg the other and that the love of God by the Holy spirit which is given to us might be poured forth in the hearts of brethren See his life written by the Nonconforming Dr. Humpred Pag. 255. edit Lond. an 1573. And if Dr. Heylins friends will please to consult Pag. 275. They shall find Jewel died September 23. about three in the afternoon not as the Doctor affirms Lib 6. Pag. 270. September the 22. And then they may also consider whether he hath not erred in dating Zanchies Letter to Queen Elizabeth September the second for in my edition of Zanchies Letters put forth by his Heirs at Hannouae 1609. it bears date the tenth of September 1571. These are small matters it will be said I confess they be but if men will write Histories they ought to be very exact and publish nothing that need fear the severest examination Let me be excused if I here adventure to give
if when you come into the room he rise up to you then take him to be a servant of Christ Austin not rising up to them when they came into the place of conference they contradict him in every thing he propounded In three things at last saith Austin if you will comply I will bear with all other your diversities 1. You must celèbrate Easter as we do 2. You must administer Baptism according to the manner of the holy Roman Church 3. You must preach with us the Gospel to the English Nation Of the many other things in which the Britans differed from the Romish I conceive this was one that they left both Ordination and Excommunication to a Presbyter as well as to a Bishop And this Austin would have tolerated The reasons of this my opinion are many and probable grounded on the Histories of those times one I shall mention viz. that the Scots were mingled with the British when they had these meetings now that the Scots did originally commit acts of order and jurisdiction to Presbyters is a thing well known if any doubt concerning it he may receive satisfaction from the large Preface of Mr. Selden to the Histories published by Mr. Bee not twenty years ago I am the more confident in this my opinion because I find that when our British Churches had throughly imbibed the Romish modes and customs then at a Synod held at Celichyth A. D. 816. it was decreed That none of the Scottish Nation should be permitted to use the sacred Ministry among us This was all I had intended about our old British Churches when loe there came to my hands the History of Mr. Petry quoted by the Latin Apologist that Historian goeth a little more confidently to work than I have done for thus saith he Century 11. Pag. 282 283. As for England since the Saxons or Englishes receiving the faith by Augustine they had always Bishops for they had their Pattern from Rome as it was then but if we look up to the Ancient Britans in that Land we shall find it otherways I have said in Century 7. Chap. 4. that seven Bishops and one Archbishop came from the Britans unto Augustin and there I followed the words of Bishop Juel in the defence of the Apology Page 14. An. 1520. where he quoteth Bede His lib. 2. cap. 2. and in the same Page he quoteth Galfred lib. 8. cap. 8. repeating the same words What I wrote then upon trust I have afterwards examined and I find that Bede speaks not so for in the Edition in Fol. Camb. An. 1643. he saith Austin called the Bishops or Doctors of the nearest Province of the Britans and in the same Page he speaking of the same persons saith a blind English Boy was brought unto the Priests of the Britans and again they said they would not depart from the Ancient Customs without the consent and licence suorum In the Margin it is said in the Saxon Language it is said without the permission and licence of their Nation Then speaking of their second conference he saith then came seven Bishops as they said and more very Learned men especially of that Famous Monastry of which the Governour at that time was Dinooth In a word Beda hath not one word of an Archbishop nor in all his History nameth he one Bishops-See nor any Bishops name and whom he calleth Bishops of Britan he calleth them Doctors or Teachers and Priests yea he calleth them oftner Priests nor calleth he them simply Bishops as he calleth them simply Priests but Bishops as they say or Bishops or Teachers Yet Beda could distinguish between a Bishop and a Priest What can be concluded from hence but that no Bishop or Prelate was among the Britans other than Priests As for Galfrid it is no marvail that he wrote according to the stile of his own time that is the year 1150. The said Author also quotes Gildas a Britan Presbyter distinguishing Church-men into Bishops or Priests and the Clerks but naming no other degree of Church-men calling the first sort oftest Sacerdotes simply but never Episcopos unless he adds sive Sacerdotes What think I of all this truly whatever I think I will not say very much for I have not by me either Juels Apology or the Cambridg Edition of Bede or Galfrid or Gildas Only thus much I may say that if Gildas who lived before Austin was sent to us and Bede who was born as Thomas Stubbes computes but Anno 677. can give us no tidings of any Church Officers above Presbyters among the Britans it will not signifie much that Jeffry Monmouth who lived but in King Stephens time makes mention of Bishops To put an end to this matter 1. He who first converted this Island to Christianity was no Bishop 2. Those two whom Eleutherius sent upon the Petition of Lucius to instruct us were no Bishops 3. Austin himself and his associates when they first attempted the conversion of the Mercian Saxons were no Bishops but only Monks 4. Wickliffe and his followers were no Bishops but being Presbyters were wont to ordain Presbyters 5. No one Bishop ever suffered death in England for striving against Popery till Queen Maries Reign 6. Of those Bishops who suffered in Queen Maries Reign the Nonconformists may lay claim to as many at least as the Conformists can do and perhaps there was not one Martyr in all her Reign that afferted the Jus divinum of Episcopacy Now if all these things be true what means the clamor of ingratitude against Presbyterians for not owning those to whom they owe the Nations Reformation from Popery yea and its Christianity also But let us view more of Mr. Moines Letter Pag. 139. If the French had kept Bishops and as many Ceremonies as would serve to fix the attention of the people without superstition they should have seen for certain far greater progress of Reformation and the resistance of a great many persons overcome who are frighted from their communion by the irregularity of their government and the bareness of their service If this were certain I could wish that they had Bishops and Ceremonies among them to morrow but we in England have not been able to observe that the number of Papists is lessened since the restitution of Bishops and Ceremonies nay since that some among us have fallen off to Popery who before professed the Reformed Religion It is not any form of Government or external mode of worship that must put the Papists to shame but the exemplary lives of Ministers and people who separate from them When men once feel in their hearts the power of Godliness they are in no great danger to turn Roman Catholicks He hath another conceit P. 139 140. that the not receiving of Episcopal Government may hinder the much desired union with the brethren that do follow the confession of Auspurg In this I do vehemently dissent from him for the yielding to Episcopal government would rather alienate them