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A61696 An assertion for true and Christian church-policie wherein certain politike objections made against the planting of pastours and elders in every congregation are sufficiently answered : and wherein also sundry projects are set down ... Stoughton, William, 1632-1701. 1642 (1642) Wing S5760; ESTC R34624 184,166 198

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of Yorke and Silby were there present In a booke intituled the burning of Pauls Church in London 1561. and in the fift question moved by a papist it is said that this manner of ministration of Sacraments set forth in the booke of Common prayers was never allowed nor agreed upon c. no not by the Clergie of England at the last Parliament but only it was agreed upon by the Laitie which had nothing a doe with spirituall matters or causes of religion Whereunto the reverend Father Master Pilkington Bishop of M. Pilkington Bishop of Durisme Duresme answering was there not saith he a disputation for Religion appointed by the Queenes Majestie wherein your Clergie was affraid to utter their foolishnesse in defending their superstition lest they had taken more shame in answering than they did in holding their peace I thinke the Vniversities with so many places of this Realme receiving religion and these other disputing for it may bee counted to be some part of the clergie of the Realme And so it was not received without consent of the Clergie But these were not of the Parliament What then But as Ioash Josaphat Ezechias and Iosias did not make a new Religion but restored that which was defaced and had long lyen buried so our Parliament did not set forth a new religion but restore that which was godly begun before the good K. Edward confirmed by the Parliament and Clergie then c. But nothing can bee concluded as a law by Parliament say they without consent of the Clergie there present But this having not their consent cannot be counted a law as they think I had rather saith M. Pilkington leave this to be answered by the Lawyers than otherwise Yet that the world may see that something may be said in it we grant him not this to be true that no law at all can be made without consent of Bishops Look your old statutes of Parliament when Bishops were highest afore Edward the third and ye shall read that they passed by consent of the Lords temporall and commons without any mention of the Lords spirituall which statutes many of them stand in strength at this day Then it may well be gathered that the consent of the Clergie was not alwayes so necessarie as they thinke it The Lawyers Judges and Justicers put in practice and execute these lawes therefore their doings may be a sufficient reason to lead the unlearned what opinion they have of this statutes For Religion except Justice Rastall first executing that and afterward running away may condemne the rest which I trust he may not I thinke they would not execute them except they had the strength and nature of lawes If they doe contrary to their knowledge and opinion they cannot be able to answer their doings but I think no wise men are of this opinion Only these corner creepers that dare not shew their face and would deceive the people go about to deface all good and godly order that displeases them In the dayes of K. Edward they had the like fond opinion that the king could not make lawes in his minoritie untill he came unto full age and to make the people to disobey their Prince Hitherto M. Pilkington L. Bishop of Durisme with whom the most worthy and learned M. Jewell late Bishop of M. Iewel B. of Salisburie Salisburie agreeth in every point The wise and learned faith hee could have told you that in the Parliaments of England matters have evermore used to passe not of necessitie by the speciall consent of the Archbishops and Bishops as if without them no statute might lawfully be enacted but only by the more part of voyces yea although the Archbishops and Bishops were never so earnestly bent against it And statutes so passing in Parliaments onely by the voyces of the Lords temporall without the consent and agreement of the Lords spirituall have neverthelesse beene alwayes confirmed and ratified by the Royall assent of the Prince and have beene enacted and published under the names of the Lords spirituall and temporall Reade saith hee the statutes of King Edward the first there shall ye find that in a Parliament holden at S. Edmundsbury the Archb. and Bishops were quite shut forth and yet the Parliament held on and good and profitable lawes were there enacted the departing or absence or malice of the Bishops spirituall notwithstanding In the Records thereof it is written thus Habito Rex cum suis Baronibus Parliamento Clero excluso statutum est The King keeping a Parliament with his Barons the Clergie that is to say the Archbishops and Bishops being shut forth it was enacted c. In provisione de matrona in the time of K. Edward the third whereas matter was moved of bastardie touching the legitimation of bastards borne before mariage the statute passed wholly with the Lords temporall whether the Lords spirituall would or no. and that contrary to the expresse decrees and canons of the Church of Rome And thus much the most reverend and godly Father M. Iewell Bishop of Salisbury Wherefore to conlude this point against the Admonitors position I dispute thus All those persons who by any necessitie are none of the three estates a●d by whose authorities the statutes of England to this day have not stood to leave out the same persons may happily seem a matter of lesse weight than all men do judge it But the Archbishops and Bishops are such persons as by n●cessitie are none of the three estates and by whose consents the statutes of England to this day have not stood Therefore to leave out the Archbishops and Bishops may happily seem a matter of lesse weight than all men doe judge it If our Evangelicall Bishops be of that opinion of which the Popish Bishops were viz. that the house of Parliament is an unfit and an unmeet place to have the holy cause of the religion of God debated and concluded upon and that the Laitie without the clergie ought not to conclude any thing in Religion and that in respect hereof their presences their voices and their assents are necessary in the ●arliament If our Evangelicall Prelates I say make this objection then besides that hereby they unseemely unmannerly and unchristianly accuse the whole land of ignorance and blindnesse in religion supposing neither King nor Nobles nor Commons to be able to discern betweene night and day besides this I say so shamefull an abuse of a whole Christian nation I would pray them to remember what the most reverend Fathers Master Pilkington and Master Iewell have answered to such cavillous slanders For what else intended they by many examples and proofes brought for the Parliaments of England consisting of the King the Nobles and the Commons to be lawfull Parliaments and to have right to establish religion but to justifie against Popish scoffers that religion might be conceived and established in Parliament notwithstanding the absence or exclusion of the Clergie Besides since our
lawes doe uphold the state and authoritie of the Convocation house for the examination of all causes Matters of religion not concluded in parliament before the same bee consulted of in convocation of Religion surely it cannot be truly averred that it is necessarie for Evangelicall Bishops to be members of the Parliamenthouse lest controversie of Religion should bee handled and discussed without them For how should any matter of religion bee concluded without them in Parliament when first of all the same is to be argued among themselves in convocation Or let them hardly if they can shew any one instance of any change or alteration either from religion to superstition or from superstition to religion to have beene made in Parliament unlesse the same freely and at large have beene first agreed upon in their Synodes and Convocations And what booteth it then to have a double or treble consultation and consent of Archbishops and Bishops in parliament Is the holy cause of God any whit bettered by their Bishops riding from Pauls to Westminster Or can it receive any more strength by their walking from Westminster Church to Westminster palace Nay it hath beene often times so farre from being promoted by their bishops as not only in their convocations but also in the Queenes parliaments the same thing hath beene shamefully intreated and taken the foyle as may witnesle the bill for the better observation of the Sabboth 27. Eliz. which being passed by both houses of parliament was notwithstanding gainesaid and withstood by none so much as by certaine Evangelicall bishops and which as there all men generally conceived was only stayed from being made a law by the Queene upon their counsell and perswasion ADMONITION Pag. ●8 It hath beene alwayes daugerous to picke quarrels against lawes setled ASSERTION And is it not morbus haereditarius in Prelates to pick quarrels against reformation of errours For even this did Stephen Gardener Stephen Gardeners argument and the ad●onitors argument in effect one reason against the Lord Protector That in no case saith Stephen Gardener is to be attempted of the Lord Protector which may bring both danger to him and trouble to the whole Realme But innovation of Religion from that state wherein K. Henry left it may be and is like to be dangerous to the Lord Protector and to baeed troubles to the whole Realme Therefore innovation of Religion from the state that K. Henry left it is in no wise to be attempted And even of this stamp and of this streyne is the argument of pickking quarrels against laws setled for thus in effect he argueth That Discipline in no case is to bee brought into the Church by the King and Parliament which may be dangerous to lawes setled But to bring into the Church the Apostolicall discipline may be dangerous to lawes setled Therefore the Apostolicall Discipline in no case is to be brought into the Church by the King and Parliament But forasmuch as that noble and religious Lord Protector notwithstanding Stephen Gardeners sophistry continued constant and couragious in the abolishment of popery and superstition which king Henry left and did without dangerous alteration of laws then setled innovate religion How much more now may the Kings Majestie the Lords and Commons in Parliament attempt with effect an innovation of that state of Ecclesiasticall government wherein the Queene left the Church And if it cannot be denyed but it had beene far more dangerous for the Realm and for the Lord Protector not to have setled the holy doctrine of the everlasting Gospell by Lesse danger to reforme the Church ●y n●w lawes than to c●ntinue corruption by old laws new lawes than to have maintained and continued antichristianitie by old lawes how should it be lesse danger for the king in these dayes to continue corruptions in the Church by toleration of old lawes than to have the same corruptions reformed by establishment of new lawes But unto whom or unto what hath it beene dangerous to pick quarrells against lawes setled Wha hath it beene dangerous to lawes setled No. For how should lawes setled be indangered by quarrelers sithence quarrellers are evermore in danger of lawes setled Or hath it beene alwayes dangerous for a king for a State for a people or for a Countrey to pick quarrels against lawes setled No. For what man is he or what face carrieth he that dare upbraid a countrey a people a State or a King minding to unsettle evill lawes and evill customes to be quarrellers against lawes setled Let it then only be dangerous for private persons upon private male-contentment to pick quarrels against good lawes well and rightly setled and let it not be hurtfull or dangerous for supreme Kings powers and principalities by publike edicts to alter evill lawes evilly setled For to what other end should evill lawes evilly setled be continued but to continue evill And what a thing were that This argument then for lawes setled being the sophisme of that Fox Stephen Gardener is but a quarrelsome and wrangling argument ADMONITION If this government whereof they speake be as they say necessary Pag. 78. in all places then must they have of necessitie in every particular parish one Pastor a company of Seniors and a Deacon or two at the least and all those to be found of the parish because they must leave their occupations to attend upon the matters of the Church But there are a number of Parishes in England not able to finde one tolerable Minister much lesse to finde such a company ASSERTION This argument seemeth to be drawne from kitchin profit and is but a bugbegger to scarre covetous men from submitting their necks unto the yoke of that holy discipline which our Saviour Christ hath prescribed and which the Admonitor himselfe confesseth to have beene practised by the Apostles and primitive Church And yet because this argument seemeth to lay a very heavie burden on mens shoulders such as is impossible to be borne it is an argument worthy That seniours and Deacons should bee found at the charge of the Parish is absurd to be examined though in it self the same be very untrue and absurd For who did ever fancy that a Pastor a company of Seniours and a Deacon or two at the least should be men of occupations or that they should be all found of the parish because they must leave their occupations to attend upon the matters of the Church Why there be many hundreds of parishes in England wherein there dwelleth not one man of an occupation And what reason then or what likelyhood of reason was there to father such an absurd necessitie upon the Church As for the necessitie of having one Pastour in every partilar parish and of his finding by the parish because it is his duety to attend upon reading exhortation and doctrine although he bee no man of occupation this I say is agreeable and consonant to the government of the Church practised by