Ecclesiasticall or Politicall Assembly of the Christian World wherein things are carried by plurality of voices it be ordinary for any inconsiderable number thereof to joyn in a particular combination among themselves and therein to take particular resolutions to publish them unto the world and so to anticipate upon the resolutions of the whole Assembly II. Whether in taking such resolutions they should not consequently resolve themselves to quit the Assembly and to appear as Parties And if any man or men should do so either in this Parliament or this Assembly if a connivence at such a matter should not be reputed for an act of great favour love and extraordinary tender affection towards them III. Whether such an inconsiderable member in so doing may not be refused by the parties as incompetent Judges IIII. Whether this Apologeticall Narration was necessary when ye found the calumnies mistakes misapprehensions of your opinions and mists that had gathered about you or were rather cast upon your persons in your absence begin by your presence again and the blessing of God upon you to scatter and vanish without speaking a word for your selves or cause And if the honour the Parliament shewed you in calling you to be Members of the Assembly was not sufficient enough to justifie your persons from all sort of aspersions and calumnies without any Apology Whether after the dissipation of such Clouds and such a justification this Apology was rather necessary then before when ye were under the cloud and not justified V. Whether this your Apologeticall Narration wherein ye blame all Protestant Churshes as not having the power of godlinesse and the profession thereof with difference from carnall and formall Christians advanced and held forth among them as among you be seasonable when the Church of God and this Kingdom stand in need of their Brotherly Assistance and particularly of that of the Scots against whom it is commonly thought to be particularly intended who at this very time so unseasonable according to their duty hazard their Lives and Estates for Gods Church all this Kingdom and you also VI. Whether as it is observed by sundry men of learning and as ye have noted your selves ye should not have done better to have sit down your opinions by way of Theses and so manifested unto us wherein ye agree or disagree with us or from us the Brownists Anabaptists and these whom ye pretend to hold the same Tenets with you in old and new England and the Netherlands then in a Rhetoricall and Oratorius way endeavour in the most part of your Book to publish your great Sufferings and extraordinary Piety and so to move us all to compassion and ravish us into admiration as if ye meant rather to perswade then to prove them VII Many also are very desirous to know whether this Apologeticall Narration published by you five alone be published in the name of you five alone or of all those also or apart of those whom ye pretend to hold your Tenets to the end we may know in what esteem to have it And if in the name of you five onely the Penners and Contrivers thereof Whether ye five can arrogate a power unto your selves to maintain these Tenets as the constant opinion of all your Churches having no generall Confession of their Faith thereabout If in the name of all the rest we desire ye would shew your Commission from all your Churches by what authoritie ye do it Or if ye do it without Commission and Authoritie from them if that be not to assume unto your selves a greater Authoritative power then that ye call Presbyteriall yea then ever was the Episcopall VIII It were also not amisse ye should declare Whether ye desire a Toleration for you five alone in your Religion or for all the rest Item If a Toleration in publike in erecting of Churches apart or to live quietly without troubling of the State as for the last appearingly ye may have it unsought but for the rest the Parliament is wise enough and knoweth what is convenient for the Church of God and the State IX And because your whole draught of this Book tends evermore unto a Toleration and consequently unto some Separation I would willingly know of you What things are to be tolerated or not tolerated in Religion not in private persons but in Conseciations And particularly when the whole Kingdom is joyned in one Religion What sort of new Consociations of divers Religions it may in good conscience tolerate and receive into it Item Vpon what ground Churches may in good conscience make Separation from other Churches that desire Vnion and Communion with them Whether they that aym at a Toleration and Separation be not rather bound to tolerate some small pretended defects not approved by those from whom they desire to separate themselves and especially when they that are so desirous of Separation are not pressed to be Actors in any thing against their conscience then to separate themselves from a Church that testifies a great desire to reforme the defects pretended to be in it Whether it were not better for them that aym at Toleration and Separation to stay in the Church and to joyn all their endeavours with their Brethren to reforme abuses then by Separation to let the Church of God perish in abuses Whether they do not better that stay in the Church to reforme it when it may be reformed then who quit it for fear to be deformed in it ANNOTATIONS Upon the INSCRIPTION Of this BOOK An Apologeticall Narration ALL Apologies presuppose some Accusation which here appears none or if it be intended as an Apologeticall answer to what hath been written against your Opinions it comes very short weak and slender and no way satisfactory to their Arguments Neither is it a meer Apologeticall Narration but also a grievous Accusation against all our Churches as destitute of the power of godlinesse c. So it is a mistake in the very Title of the Book which is either untrue or inadoequate to the subject whereof it treateth Humbly submitted So humbly submitted to the honourable Houses of Parliament as if they submit not themselves to your desires in granting you a Toleration for any thing I can see ye seem no wayes minded to submit your selves to theirs It seems also very probable That being Divines ye should rather first have consulted with the Assembly of Divines your Brethren then so ex abrupto gone to the Civill Magistrate that arrogates not to himself any directive power in matters of Religion This should have testified more Brotherly and Christian Charitie then here it does of politicall humilitie And it is more convenient to the spirit and power of godlinesse that the spirit of Prophets in such matters should be subject unto Prophets then unto the spirit of the Civill Magistrate who for this effect hath convocate an Assembly of Prophets and would not undertake it himself So this is a submission That this most just
2.11 1 Tim. 1.2 Tit. 1.4 Phil 2.10 1 Ioh. 2.1.28 and 3.7 and 4.4 The Ministers and the Elders are not onely our Brethren but also our Fathers Ergo they must as well use paternall authority over us as brotherly charity towards us 4. So also combined Presbyteries or as it were Fathers of simple Presbyteries because of their greater power to judge 5. The like of this Government hath never been heard of in the world neither in State nor Common-wealth before and therefore seemeth it to us to be repugnant unto the Law of Nature for what else is the Law of Nature but the common consent of all men How absurd therefore is that Government so destitute of all authority have the sheep as great authoirty as the Sheepherd if so it is as good to be a sheep as a Sheepherd 6. If an Authoritative power cannot hold in the Church or among Churches because that we are all Brethren and Sisters no more can it hold in the State betwixt King and Subject the father and the son the master and the servant for we are all Brethren in Christ so this Foundation or Ground-work will destroy all sort of Politicall and Domesticall Authority Our Brethren would do well also to consider whether their Grounds or those of our Government will better consist with the Authority of the civill Magistrate for according to this reason a King in a State should have no power at all over his Brother 7. In the State there be divers Judicatories Superiour and Inferiour wherein the Superiour hath an authoritative power over the inferiour Ergo in the Church since there is the same reason for both viz. reparation of the offence taken at inferiour Judicatories But because ye will seem to be much addicted to the civill Magistrate as if your Ecclesiasticall Government were altogether subordinate unto his power and blame us as not giving him his due which ye note by a particular Parenthesis as if ye would have us to take particular notice of it Therefore before we end this Section we shall be very willing to do it In saying that the Presbyteriall Excommunication is no more effectuall then your Sentence of non-Communion without the Magistrates Power ye adde this Parenthesis To which we give as much and as we think more then the Principles of the Presbyteriall Government will suffer them to yeeld By whose counsell or for what end this Parenthesis is inserted and such a comparison made I know not If ye have no Politicall ayms I am assured ye comply very much with Policy If ye grant him so much ye would do well to declare how much and wherein and not to feed him with generalities and Platonicall Idees as abstract here from all matter as ye professed formerly your Church-Government was abstracted from all other Governments It is a Maxime in Philosophy and in Rhetorick both That Sermones generales non movent and praised be God that the King and Parliament are wise and will not feed upon so abstract forms As for us since ye keep your selves upon such generalities it is impossible to us to answer any thing in particular unlesse we guesse at your meaning In generall therefore we say 1. That amongst men well bred all comparisons are odious 2. That either ye give unto the civill Magistrate onely his due or something more if onely his due ye lay a very heavie aspersion upon all Presbyterians as if they were not good Subjects in denying him a part of his due If more who gave you the power to do so 3. Either ye grant him more in Civill or in Spirituall matters In Civill matters ye cannot for ye can grant him no more then he hath by the Laws of the Land whereunto we are all equally subject and therefore must grant him as much one as another If in Spirituall matters we grant him his externall power as we declared in the beginning And for intrinsecall Spirituall power 1. It is not in your power to grant him any at all neither can ye give him more Spirituall obedience then Scripture permitteth you or give him a part of the Spirituall power that ye have received of God for that were to lay upon another the burden that God hath laid upon you and so serve God by a Proctor 2. It is onely in God who is King in this Spirituall Kingdom Master in this House and a Father in this Family who can give power therein to any man we dare not be so bold If ye pretend to do it I say with the Comick Poet de te largitor puer be liberall upon your own purse 4 If ye will do so look how Authoritative is your power who take Authority over Gods Ordinance and dispose of it as if it were your own so do not the Presbyterians 5. The Civill Magistrate acknowledgeth himself to be a Politicall and no Ecclesiasticall person since he is neither Pastor nor Doctor nor Ruling Elder in Christs Church and therefore arrogateth no Spirituall Authority to himself 6. We desire to know of you Brethren what ye understand here by the Magistrate Whether the Supreme or Subaltern If the Supreme whether the King or Parliament and principally at this time If the Subaltern we ask of you Whether every Justice of Peace shall or can judge of all Ecclesiasticall matters And if he cannot whether he can be a competent Judge 7. What if the Civill Magistrate be a Papist what if some of the Kings Councell be Papists or Heterodox as some in the beginning of this Parliament were will ye grant that they judge in matters of Religion So the Turk the Antichrist and Pagans shall judge in matters of Religion amongst their Protestant Subjects If so our Protestants in France in Polonia and otherwhere are in a very fair way Its pity but such a Maxime should have been published in Queen Maries time and at Saint Bartholomews day in France at that Butchery or Massacre of Protestants 8. The Apostle 1 Cor. 6. findes fault with the Christians that did plead before Infidels in civill matters what then would he not have said if godly men would have pleaded before them and submitted matters of Religion unto their judgement 9. This power that ye grant to the Magistrate is either Internall or Externall in regard of the Church If Externall we grant it as well as ye If Internall then he must be an Ecclesiasticall Person And then 10. It should follow That a Soveraign Prince should as well be Soveraign in the Church as in the State and so Internall head of both which is derogatory to Christs Royaltie as our Doctors have sundry times cleerly demonstrated it against the Jesuites and other Papists 11. Women that are commanded to be silent in the Church should rule it and command men in it since they may be Soveraign Princes in it and over it and so Leglise tomberoit on quenvillo And if it be replyed wherefore may they not as well rule the Church as the
State as some Independenters and some Women here in London have maintained in presence of their Preacher uncontradicted by him or any of that Profession there I answer 1. Because the Church or Kingdom of Heaven is not a Kingdom of this Word 2. Because God forbideth the one in Scripture but not the other 12. Christs Kingdom viz. His Church which is not of this World should be subject to the Kings and Kingdoms of this World 13. Yea the Apostles should have been subject unto worldly Kings in Church Government and so they should not have been the first Officers in the Church but the King should have been above them which is no lesse then cleerly to contradict Saint Paul Ephâ—s 4. where he calleth them the first 14 So wo Idly Princes could not be judged by any Church-Officers for if they were supreme Judges inferiour Officers could not judge them 15. A King usurping or invading a Kingdom should usurpe Soveraigntie in the Church And 16. if he were a Tyrant and obtained it jure belli by the Sword he should make himself Head of the Church by the Sword which seemeth a very strange Conquest of Ecclesiasticall Authoritie 17. If a Prince should buy a Principalitie and the Soveraigntie thereof he should consequently buy the charge to be supreme Ruler or to be above the Church as ye call it so it should be a good Conquest by good Simony 18. So if a wicked Prince should invade a good Prince against Gods Will then he should be Head of Christs Church or supreme Judge over it against Christs Will and that by an ordinary way yea jure divino by Christs Ordinance if jure divino they be above the Church as ye say 19. If a Prince were perpetually mad his perpetuall madnesse should no more hinder him from being supreme Judge in the Church then Prince in the State 20. If a Prince were supreme Judge alone then should he alone judge yea without his Counsell as some Princes do arrogate unto themselves and there should be the same Disputes about the Princes supreme Authoritie in the Church that are about it in the State 21. God will have no man to be a Judge in his Church but after examination 1 Tim. 3. muchlesse a supreme Judge in it But Kings are not examined whether they have the capacitie to rule or not and if the Prince be a little childe how can he have the capacitie or abide an examination 22. If a King have any other or more intrinsecall Authoritie over the Church then all Protestant Churches in France Holland and Scotland grant him or then we have declared we pray you shew us what it is and wherein it consisteth Whether he hath it in qualitie of a King of a Christian or of a Christian King If he hath it in qualitie of a King or as a King then all Kings have it yea Nâ—ro and Julian the Apostate Nam quod alicui comunit quà tali communit omni And then I pray you whether ye will admit such a Prince to judge of the Controversies of your Religion If in qualitie of a Christian then all Christians have it for the same reason yea every Cobbler as well as any King or Prince since they be all Christians 3. If as a Christian Prince then all Princes should have it But so it is not For what if we had a Christian Prince who were a Lutheran an Anabaptist a Sociman or a Papist I cannot beleeve that ye would permit such Christian Princes to judge muchlesse to be supreme Judges in your Religion If ye say that ye understand an Orthodox Prince What if he had one or two errours would ye yet permit him to judge of Ecclesiasticall matters Then who should judge whether he were Orthodox or not Whether ye or we What if there were a hundred divers Sects in any Kingdom Then he could onely judge of that Sect which he should professe and of no other Or if he should judge of all he should condemn them all but his own If by the supreme Magistrate ye understand a Parliament then to judge every one of your differences when ever any man challengeth the Church of an unjust judgement or appealeth from it we must gather a Parliament Which if the King and Parliament finde expedient I have nothing to say against it yet every man may judge whether the dispatch of businesse can be so quick and cheap as in the Presbyterian way What if Parliament men be of different Religions shall they of one Religion judge of the other Religion I might bring more Arguments and prosecute them all more fully but this may suffice for Annotations Onely this I adde 1. That it is not equitable that ye five be beleeved upon your simple word in so great an Aspersion as ye lay upon so many Churches yea all the best Reformed Churches without any proof If heretofore they gave you the right hand of fellowship I doubt if after so criminall an accusation they will continue it to you any longer And here I cannot sufficiently admire you in pretending your Church Government to be so compleat and perfect and yet stand insomuch need of the Civill Magistrate 2. I pray the Reader to consider diligently § 20. Pag. 20 21. How by that Speech it appeareth 1. That that Church pretended to have offended did arrogate in disposing of her Minister a power altogether independent from all other both of the Civill Magistrate and of all other Churches Otherwayes that expression should have been impertinent viz. That it was the most to be abhorred Maxime that any Religion hath ever made profession of and therefore of all other the most contradictory and dishonourable to that of Christianitie that a single and particular societie of men professing the name of Christ and pretending to be endowed with a power from Christ to judge them that are of the same body and societie within themselves should further arrogate unto themselves an exemption from giving an account or being censurable by any other either Christian Magistrate above them or Neighbour Churches about them For if she pretended no such power and exemption to what purpose such an expression 2. That in this Ecclesiasticall Judgement that is intrinsecall to the Church they acknowledge the Civill Magistrate to be above them but all the Churches of the Christian World nothing but about them whereof much may be said Here ye symbolize with Erastus in many things 3. Ye may collect that such a most abhorred Maxime was not the Maxime of that Church alone but of some others also for it is not credible that she would have stood out alone in a Maxime so repugnant to the Tenets of all other Churches and after wards submitted her self unto their judgement 4. Ye may see by the event and successe of this businesse a correction of that Maxime wherewith they were tinctured before 5. How God in his most wise Providence has forced those good men out of meer necessitie to
Wherefore will ye not joyn with us and communicate as Brethren with us But ye adde a little after the middle part of this Section That ye both did and would hold a Communion with all those Churches as with the Churches of Christ But what communion is this ye hold with these rather then with Papists Brownists Anabaptists in England and the Lutherans If ye say in Doctrine that Union is not externall since ye testifie it not by your externall Communion in the Sacraments with us for ye will not admit all those to your Communion that we admit to ours 2. Neither will those of New-England whom ye cry up and extoll so highly admit those of our Church to their Communion or to be Members of their Churches unlesse of late they have changed their opinion and ye and they temporize in conforming your opinions to the times and commensurate them to Politicall ayms for Toleration 3. Neither know we whether they will communicate with us at least their Writings and Letters from New-England which heretofore we have seen testifie no such thing so that in this ye dissent from them unlesse they within this yeer dissent from themselves 4. By the same reason ye may communicate with Schismaticks and men that are excommunicated amongst your selves for their ill life viz. drunkards blasphemous persons c. 5. By the same reason ye communicate with some Papists in profession that beleeve all that we beleeve in Doctrine 6. And with them all and all Hereticks in part because they agree in part in the Doctrine with us If it be replied That they with whom they communicate must also be of good life I duply then it is not a meer Communion in Doctrine but in some other thing beside viz. In good life And then 2. If they have both sound Doctrine and be of a good life or have Faith which causes good Doctrine and Charitie the cause of a good life Wherefore desire ye a Toleration to make a Sect apart or what desire ye more to make up one Church with them But howsoever ye pretend this reall Profession of Communion with us yet ye overthrow it by your restriction afterwards viz. To such as ye know to be Godly that came to visit you in your exile But ye will not admit all the Members of our Churches but such as ye onely judge not we to be Members of our Church Ye say in the same Section That ye Baptize your Children in our Parishionell Congregations Wherefore then will ye not as well communicate at the Lords Table with us all And if so Wherefore will ye not likewise admit us all to your Communion In the 8. § And as we alwayes c. In this Paragraph or Section ye shew the judgement of forraign Churches concerning you how ye both mutually gave and received the right â—â—â—ds of fellowship How they gave you Churches to Preach in some Priviledges a maintenance annually for your Ministers c. So here in England hitherto ye have had libertie to Preach in our Churches and may have if ye will and some of you have some Benefices But if ye go on ayming at a Toleration and consequentlie at some Separation as we have shewed I doubt if ye shall or should have any annuall allowance at all or Churches to Preach in as before you had Moreover we know not upon what grounds ye were tolerated in the Netherlands whether it was not in consideration of your precedent afflictions hoping that ye might submit your selves to Presbyteriall Government in your own Countrey if it were well establisht or in favour of some Merchants by publike or private authoritie Ecclesiasticall or Civill or other wayes Onely we say That many Sects are tolerated there Neither howbeit ye were tolerated in the Netherlands Polonia or Germany where many Religions are tolerated and permitted out of Civill respects Is it equitable ye should be tolerated here where there is one onely Religion professed and one Goverment as we shall see hereafter In the 9.10.11.12.13.14 ye give account of your Practices in publike Worship Church Officers matter of Government and Censures and your directive principles in all this Hence in the 15.16.17.18.19.20.21 ye infer your Conclusion of Independencie of every particular Congregation As for the parts of your publike worship we consent with you In your Church Officers ye acknowledge with us four viz. Pastours Teachers Ruling Elders and Deacons But ye lash us a little with your Parenthesis about our Ruling Elders With us not Lay but Ecclesiastique persons separated to that service Here ye seem to accuse the Reformed Churches in France the Netherlands Scotland c. as if they all esteemed them Lay and not Ecclesiasticall Persons If this be your minde it is a great mistake in you and we can produce their writings to the contrarie if not we know not to what end ye inserted this particular Parenthesis As ye therefore inserted yours so do we ours but not Preachers or Teachers of the Word And therefore we desire to know of you if Ruling Elders have power to teach as it is maintained by other Independents and if they Preach or Teach how they can be distinguished from Preachers and Teachers For all Charges receive their unitie and distinction from their Acts and Ends Wherefore if the Ruling Elder Preach or Teach which is the Act and End of the Preacher and Teacher he must have the same Office with Preachers and Teachers 2. The Apostle also distinguishes them 1 Cor. 12. Wherefore then confound ye them Ye adde in this 9. Section concerning Excommunication upon obstinacy and impenitency this Parenthesis as worthy of some particular observation which we blesse God we never used as if your Churches were so pure that not one man should deserve it We cannot say so much of our Churches Neither can your Brethren of New-England say so much of theirs We know that some have been Independenters as we our selves have heard from their own mouthes that now are become Anabaptists And whether such men merited it or not judge ye If they merited it ye have been very partiall and unjust in not using of it So that proceeds not from want of demerits in the persons to be punished but of justice in the Rulers to execute it Neither do we deny but a number of very holy persons may be gathered together who may so carrie themselves for some time as not to commit any great offence with pertinacie to deserve Excommunication if the choice be good But to say that it may last long so in Populous Congregations and in a great number of Churches ye may tell us this news when your Churches are multiplied and become as Populous and have endured as long as ours We could tell wonders also of our Churches in some parts in the beginning of the Reformation But the question is not who liveth holiest but whose Discipline is most conform unto Gods Word Your Directive Principles were three 1. Gods Word and
Here ye mistake for we can produce you sundry others of good note here Printed at London we are sorry ye have not seen them or disdained to read them If there were not many written before those it was in pittie of your afflictions whereunto good Divines would not adde new affliction Neither thought they your Partie so considerable Neither were your Opinions much known or published abroad being onely written in English and not in Latine except by one or two of your Divines for any thing I know Neither thought they that ye were so averse from their Discipline as ye appear in this Assembly but that ye suffered only for not conforming your selves unto Episcopall Government But whatever they have written I know not what this can serve to the purpose unlesse it be to declare That whatsoever helps ye had heretofore yet ye were destitute of those writings whereby ye might have received farther light concerning Presbyteriall Government and I pray God ye make good use of them In the 16. § at the end of the 16. Pag. Ye travell to remove an Objection viz. That in Congregationall Government such as is amongst you there is no allowed sufficient remedy for miscarriages though never so grosse no relief for wrongfull Sentences or Persons injured thereby no room for Complaints No Powerfull or Effectuall means to reduce a Church or Churches that fall into Heresie or Schisme c. To avoid this Objection ye relate us an History § 17. and what ye did upon such an emergent case But ye shew us no Law that ever ye had amongst you whereby ye might bring any remedie against such a miscarriage before that it fell out 2. Neither read we of any such Law or remedie in your Books before this 3. Your Divines and the Members of your Churches with whom we conversed shewed no remedie amongst you for such inconveniencies 4. They gave us no answer unto this Objection save onely this That God hath ordained no remedies in such Cases Yea that if Churches should fall away from Christ and with the Jews call him an Impostor and the Trinitie with Servet a three headed Cat and deny the Incarnation of the Son of God they should be tolerated Yea more That the Civill Magistrate should punish no man for his Religion be it never so bad or blasphemous and that it must be left to God And this giveth us reason to think That these Reasons within these two yeers have made you to refine your Opinion and to mould some new Solutions and to suite your Opinions more close to the current of the time then you were wont to do If therefore we speak after them it is their fault and not ours it may be that your Opinion be not common to you all but to you five alone The sum of the History is A Minister was suddenly deposed by his Flock whereupon some Churches did take offence and all their Churches consented in this Principle That Churches 1 Cor. 10.32 1 Tim. 5.22 as well as particular men are bound to give no offence neither to Jew nor Gentile nor the Churches of God they live among Item That in vertue of the same or like Law of not partaking in other mens sins the Churches offended may and ought upon the Impenitency of those Churches persisting in their errour and miscarriage to pronounce that heavy sentence against them of withdrawing and renouncing all Christian Communion with them untill they do repent And further to declare and protest this with the causes thereof to all Christian Churches of Christ that they may do the like In this Narration it appeareth 1. That this Church offending before this emergent Case knew not so much for if she had it is not credible that she would against all charitie and the common order of all Churches have committed so great a scandall 2. This remedie is not sufficient nor satisfactory 1. Because all Churches according to your Tenets be equall in Authoritie Independent one of another and par in parcm non habet Imperium none hath power or Authoritie over his equall how then could any Church binde another to any such account but out of its freewill as a partie may do to its partie 3. Because since other Churches were or pretended to be offended in such a proceeding they could not judge in it for then they should have been both judge and partie in one cause which cannot be granted to those that have no Authoritative Power one over another as when a private man offendeth the State and we our God 4. What if many Churches yea all the Churches should offend one should that one Church gather all the rest together judge them all and in case of not submitting themselves to her judgement separate her self from them all If so we should have Separations and Schismes enough which should be continued to all Posteritie to come 5. What if Churches were so remote one from another that they could not easily meet together upon every occasion Then there should be no remedy or at least no easie remedy 6. What if the Offence were small should so many Churches for every trifle gather together and put themselves to so great cost and trouble 7. What if the Churches in their Judgements should differ one from another in such a case should they all by Schismes separate themselves one from another 8. This sort of Government giveth no more Power or Authoritie to a thousand Churches over one then to a Tincker yea to the Hangman over a thousand for he may desire them all out of charitie to give an account of their Judgement in case he be offended by them Neither see I what more our Brethren grant to all the Churches of the World over one But the Presbyteriall Government is subject to none of these inconveniencies for the collective or combined Eldership having an authoritative Power all men and Churches thereof are bound by Law and Covenant to submit themselves thereunto Every man knoweth their set times of meeting wherein sundry matters are dispatched and all things carried by pluralitie of voices without any Schisme or Separation 9. This Government is a Power wherein the Partie is judged if he will and so the judgement of the Judges suspended upon the judgement of the Partie judged which is most ridiculous without any example in Ecclesiasticall or Civill Judicatories a judgement indeed not very unlike to that which is related of a merry man who said he had the best and most obedient wife of the whole World because saith he she willeth nothing but what I will and as all men wondred at it knowing her to be the most disobedient yea saith he but I must first will what she willeth else she willeth nothing that I will 10. This sort of Government is unjust and unreasonable for not onely the Partie judgeth its Partie but also it inflicteth the same punishment viz. Separation upon all offending Churches what ever be the offence great or small
and severe Tribunall and most Sacred refuge and Asylum of mis-judged innocence requireth not of you By Thomas Goodwin c. We have hereupon already expressed in the Epistle and in our seventh observation what many Learned and good men desire and what may be their judgement hereupon about you five Pag. 1. Now Members of the Assembly of Divines and this also we have touched in our Epistle and upon humbly submitted Notes upon the first Page Sect. 1. OVr ears c. Here beginneth this Apologeticall Narration which from this unto the ninth Section Page the fifth hath little or nothing materiall touching the questions in controversie betwixt our Brethren and us Onely it containeth a Narration of their godly wayes whereupon they have never been challenged by their Brethren that ever I could hear of filled with exclamations What can be these exclamations or exclamators we know not and therefore answers not Sect. 2. And now c. It may seem very probable to reasonable men 1. That it should have been more seasonable To have made this appearance into publike light before your entrance into the Assembly then so many Moneths after 2. Before your Brethren in submitting your spirit of Prophets unto that of the whole Assembly then in this extraordinary way unparalelled by any like unto it in the world 3. To have sought of them a Testimony then after this way to take it at your own hand and give it unto your selves lain under so dark a cloud Ye avow hereafter that it is vanished away so ye lose your pains in taking away a cloud that is no more See our fourth observation The Supreme Judicatory severe Tribunall the most Sacred Refuge and Asylum for mistaken and mis-judged innocence The Parliament indeed is all this in civill causes but it pretends no directive power in matters of Religion by teaching or preaching or judging of controversies of Religion nor any executive power that is intrinsecall unto the Church as in the Vocation Deposition and Suspension of Ministers in Ecclesiasticall Censures in Excommunication c. which are meerly spirituall but onely an executive coercitive and externall power which is not in but about the Church and for the Church whereby it compelleth refractory men to obey the Church And this authoritie belongs actually and in effect in actu exercito as they say jure in re to true Christian Magistrates but to others potentially in actu signate and jure in rem onely till they become true Christians In vertue of this Authority when Parties pretend to be offended by the Church or if the Church judge any thing amisse he may command the Church to revise and re-examine its judgement and to reforme it if it containeth any thing amisse And in this sense Constantine the Great refusing an unjust and exorbitant power that the Counsell gave to him said very wisely Vos in Ecclessa ego extra Ecclesiam Episcopus For he was no Ecclesiasticall Minister Overseer or Controller but Gods Minister in the State for the weal of his Church in the State which was not formally of the State howsoever materially it was in the State Wherefore if your meaning here be That the Parliament should judge of the questions in debate betwixt you and your Brethren ye go against the Parliaments intention which esteeming it self to have no calling of God thereunto very wisely did convocate an Assembly of Divines to that effect Neither beleeve I that ye will grant unto it and the Assembly both such an authority or if ye grant it I doubt if ye will submit your selves unto it And indeed to grant them such a power were nothing else but to joyn your selves with the Arminians who granted it to the Civill Magistrate when they thought to have had him for them and afterwards repented themselves when they found him against them Sect. 3. Pag. 2. The most c. To this Paragraph I have nothing to say but that it is the judgement of many very judicious and godly Divines That a Pastour is bound to stay with his Flock so long as he is not pressed to be an Actor in any thing against his conscience which many good men have done in this Kingdom and in so doing upheld many others Sect. 4. Pag. 2. Neither c. Here I note two things 1. Ye call other Churches your Neighbour Churches if so they are your sister Churches And then how is it That ye will not admit all the Members of their Churches unto your Communion at the Table of the Lord Will ye or dare ye communicate with them or not If ye dare how dare ye not admit them all unto your Communion If ye dare not how can ye hold them for Brethren with whom ye dare not eat or drink at that spirituall Feast of Brotherly Love and Charity 2. Ye tell us That for fear of violence and persecution ye made choice of a voluntary exile If this be said to excuse your departure I have nothing to say But if it be to blame them that notwithstanding all persecution remained in their stations I remit the Reader to the third Section onely I adde this That they who notwithstanding their personall persecutions remained in their Stations in confirming others are no lesse to be commended then ye Neither is the Souldier lesse valourous that standeth by his Colours fighting constantly and courageously to death then he that leaveth them flying away upon any imminent danger whatsoever whatever his affection be unto the cause And if they all had fled away what might have become of the poor Church of God in this Kingdom it might been that ere now Impius haec tam culta novalia miles haberet Barbarus has segetes Praised be God that it pleased him in his mercy to uphold those men in these dangers that they might be a means of upholding the Members of his Church here Yea who knoweth if in such corrupt times many things were not rather to have been tolerated which then could not be amended then their Stations to have been deserted so they had not been Actors in ill doing Neither was the watchfulnesse of those times so great but that many good men might enjoy and enjoyed in effect the Ordinances of Christ And howbeit it had been so yet was it not necessary therefore to make a Schisme in quiting the Communion of all other Churches abroad Many Divines hold also That the Minister of Christ ought not to fly away for his personall persecution but for that onely of his flock Sect. 5. pag. 3. This being c. In this and the next Section ye seem to come to the question in controversie viz. Unto Ecclesiasticall Government but it containeth nothing probative of your opinion but onely narrative of your enquiry and holy proceedings therein which ye willingly desire to perswade that it has been the most holy that could be found by flesh and blood in any juncture of time that may fall out as wanting no helps that could
the Church of God to the true Doctrine and Discipline that which should be imputed to himself Or 2. Because that the Governours or Rulers of the Church put not the Discipline duly in execution Or 3. Because they that should be governed will not obey the trueth 3. Put the case the Antecedent were true and there were no such captious argumentation Yet from hence should it not follow that Independent but that Episcopall Government should be better then the Presbyterian because the power of godlinesse acknowledged by strangers to be greater here then with them was not in Holland or in New-England under Independency but in old England not under Independent which hath never here been received but dependent viz. Episcopall Government that could not endure Indepency but persecuted it So Brethren here according to your fashion you prove that which ye intend least to prove wherein ordinarily ye are very unfortunate And if this ye prove it is another Sophistication commonly called fallacia ignorationis elenchi and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when ye prove one question or conclusion for another Ye had said ye the light of old Non-conformists and their draughts of Discipline But ye condemned all as Soveraign Judges And that much more commended to us because say ye they were our own Here ye manifest a temptation which ye concealed before Ye had the fatall miscarriages and shipwrack of those of the Separation whom ye say we call Brownists But so call not ye them because ye symbolize more with them and had rather call us Calvinians with the Papist then them Brownists with us as they merit because of the Author of their Sect. Afterwards in the last part of this Paragraph ye come to the examples of New-England improved as ye say to a better Edition and greater refinement whom ye extoll very highly in comparing them with our father Abraham and yet ye stood say ye as unengaged Spectators So then your Religion in this point was in abstractione praecisionis abstracted and separated from all Religion without all Religion and to live as Spectators This your Religion in this point was very speculative and if it were in any other matter then that of Religion we might justly say Spectatum admissi risum teneatis amici We resolved not say ye to take up our Religion by or from any part Neither could ye being so abstract from all parties for ye dissented from all the World ye held all the World for parties and made your selves Judges of all the World till ye had made choice of your new Religion If this Method in making choice of Religion be good and honest then all those that are bred in your Religion should do so which as I beleeve ye will no wayes grant Upon this Section wherein ye so much extoll your New-England-men I must say something of those that stood for Presbyterian Government And not to insist upon this how some of them as the Histories relate had the gift of Prophesie What miracles or at least marvellous things were done by or about them in the time of their Imprisonment and afterwards in their Exile for that Cause How God extraordinarily poured forth his Judgements upon those that were instruments of their vexation and afterward extraordinarily delivered them upon their repentance How some of them in strange Countries extraordinarily got the Language of the Countrey in three moneths so as to be able to Preach How the people flockt about them in their houses How powerfully they preached twice a day which was thought insupportable to humane nature in respect of the violence of their action and that not for one day but all the dayes of their lives to the admiration of many thousands How the Papists themselves howsoever ordinarily in their speeches they condemned all Huguenots to hell yet excepted them because of the holinesse of their lives How they were never out of Prayers Meditation or Preaching as sundry eye witnesses here can testifie How all the Priests and Doctors even the learnedst of them that were sent to the place where they were to hinder the conversion of the Papists were converted themselves Onely I will say one word of some who not above four or five years ago undertook a Voyage for a new Plantation in America in as great a Wildernesse as any of your New-England-men and that with far lesse worldly means onely for Gods Service These men I say being about the number of one hundred and twenty in one Bottom and some thousands of miles on their way it pleased God that a Tempest so violent seized them as in it they lost their Rudder spent all their Masts save one and sprung three Leaks whereby the water came in in such aboundance that notwithstanding their extraordinary diligence at the Pumps as also their indefatigable pains in lading it out by Buckets hardly could they save the Ship from sinking under them And yet in this case ever hoping against hope the Tempest continuing it pleased him who commands the Windes and Tempests by the same Tempest to bring them back to the very Port they set out of and after wards made them Judges of those that had unjustly judged them and instruments with the rest of the Kingdom for the establishing of the Presbyteriall Government in greater purity there from whence it was almost cast out What these mens lives were the world can with no lesse admiration wonder at then at their wondrous deliverance And yet for all this will I not compare these men with any men in the World in any juncture of time that may fall out As I honour their gifts so do I other mens also but which of them all be the best men or most impartiall Judges he knoweth best who knows the hearts of all men Sect. 7. In this Section ye give out your judgement of other Churches and in the next viz. 8o. other Churches judgement of you I beleeve ye understand those of the Netherlands Ye acknowledge the Churches under Episcopall Government in England and under Presbyteriall in France Holland and Scotland for true Churches and their Ministery for a true Ministery But here I desire with many others to know what ye understand by true Churches and a true Ministery Whether a Metaphysicall Logicall or a Morall veritie If ye understand that they be true Churches Veritate Metaphysica Entis Transcendentali such as Dú Plessis and many of our Divines grant unto the Romish Church viz. That she is a true Church as a Pocky whore is a true Woman howsoever her flesh be so consumed with corruption that she cannot live but must die of it and that none can touch her without danger of being infected with her sicknesse for she is an Harlot and a Whore howsoever clothed with Scarlet We thank you for your favour Ye hold us in the same Categorie with Rome If ye hold us a true Church veritate logica and morally for a pure Church wherefore desire ye a Toleration
1. Because ye found the spirits of the people of this Kingdom that professe or pretend to the power of godlinesse ready to take any impressions and to be cast in any mould that hath but the appearance of a stricter way 2. Because that the mists gathered about you begun to scatter 3. Because ye published not your opinions by Preaching although ye had the Pulpits free nor in Print although the Presses were more free then the Pulpits Answ Your Partie will deny the Assumption for if ye and the rest of your Partie made it not up how is it made up in this Kingdom As for the proof of your Provocations We have answered already to the first The third and fourth we allow it not if any man hath done so To the second we shall answer hereafter And as for the fifth good Sheepherds could not without an abominable prevarication but write against yours and all other mens Innovations when they saw so many Sects multiplied and Woolfs creeping in so fast into Christs Sheep-fold to devour the flock 2. If ye blame our faithfull Ministers for maintaining the Truth already received what shall we say of your folks who have first published Books against the Truth 3. What shall we say of those of your Colleagues who heretofore preached your Tenets with great offence here in publike And who still run busily up and down to make Proselytes To the second proof your Assumption 1. We have already answered that it is made but how we know not 2. What were those people that professe and pretend to any power of godlinesse so ready to take any impression and to make a Partie ye tell not We wish to know whether they be Brownists Anabaptists or of what other Sect 3. Your Covenant obligeth you to declare it unto the Parliament however ye reveal it not unto us 4. Certainly true Professors of godlinesse are not so susceptible of any impressions much lesse to become factious 5. And therefore ye adde well or pretend for such men pretend onely to godlinesse but have renounced in effect the power thereof Here we see howsoever ye pretend not to be States-men yet ye know as much of it as the Presbyterians Your second occasion was the dissipations of mists c. If so and onely so then what needed this Apologeticall Narration § 25. Pag. 25. To the third occasion whether ye had the Pulpits so free or feared to have them lesse free afterwards I dispute not ye know that well enough Onely this I know That some of your Brethren having given themselves libertie to speak somewhat freely in favour of your opinions were afterwards discountenanced and became more prudent and circumspect in venting of themselves If ye printed not your opinions it may be ye deal more prudently in teaching them in private then in publishing them in Print And here ye shew how your Charitie is grown cold for in the beginning when so many mists were gathered about you for fear of Schisme out of meet Charitie ye abstained from writing and now when they are scattered ye write Your third Grievance is the reproach of that proud and insolent title of Independency Answ Ye decline that proud Title but will no wayes quit the thing signified by the Title in that ye maintain the Independency of every one of your Churches from all Ecclesiasticall Authoritie or Authoritative Power of any Ecclesiasticall Assembly yea some of your Profession say That it belongs not to the Magistrate to punish any man for his Religion be it never so odious and wicked as we have heard from their own mouths So that there is another new Independency If it be replied here That I did prove before that ye acknowledge some Ecclesiasticall Authoritie whereunto your particular Churches are subject I answer It is but by necessary consequence that they must hold it and not interminis or expresly that they beleeve it for they deny interminis what they must grant by consequence It is drawn out of the evasions that they bring against our Reasons whereby whilest they seek to escape they are catcht Pag. 4. Your fourth Grievance whereof ye complain and bewall your selves is Brownisme together with all their Opinions wherewith ye are traduced Answ But ye disclaim not Brownisme and their Opinions absolutely but with a restriction and secundum quid viz. As they have stated and maintained them 2. By another limitation viz. That ye differ much from them not in re sed in modo rei It may be ye hold and maintain the same opinions but not the same way And yet ye sympathize very much with them in puining untoward names upon us but not upon them There also ye declare what ye confesse and beleeve viz. The trueth to lye in a middle way betwixt Brownisme and the Authoritative Presbyteriall Government Answ But this is nothing but your errour Veritie consisteth not in the middle of this or that which ye imagine but in a conformitie of our conceptions with their object and due measure which in this matter is onely Gods Word revealed in the holy Scriptures and according to this rule I take Presbyterian Government rather to be the middle betwixt Popish Tyranny and Independent Anarchy § 25. Pag. 25. Your fifth Grievance is Some incitements to this State not to allow us say ye the peaceable practises of our Consciences which the Reformed Churches abroad allowed us Answ If any man incited the State not to allow you a peaceable practise of your new Religion they did according to their conscience as your New-England men do with those of our Religion and as some say that some of you five would do with us Their Reasons might have been these 1. Because it cannot but open a door to all sorts of erroneous Opinions 2. It is dangerous for the State it may breed factions and divisions betwixt all persons of whatsoever relation betwixt the Magistrate and the Subject the Husband and the Wife the Father and the Son Brethren Sisters the Master and the Servant when the one is of one Religion or Ecclesiasticall Government and the other of another as ye have experimented The Son may refuse to receive any communion with the Father and the Brother with the Brother and so dissolve all naturall civill and domesticall bands of Societie 3. No State in Christendome where there is one onely Religion established will admit the publike exercise of any other or endure a Schisme in that which is already received Wherefore then should it be done here 4. If it be granted to our Brethren I cannot see how it can well be denyed to other Sects If it be said That other Sects differ more from us then they do it is all one Magis minus non mutant Speciem in matter of Toleration for then all must be tolerated howsoever some more some lesse And some of our Brethren grant all the Argument And if we distinguish so ye must declare and expound cleerly what Sects and