AN ANSVVER TO A LIBELL INTITULED A COOLE CONFERENCE Between the cleered REFORMATION AND THE APOLOGETICALL NARRATION Brought together by a Wel-willer to both Wherein are cleerely refuted what ever he bringeth against the Reformation cleared most humbly submitted to the judgement of the Honourable Houses of Parliament the most Learned and Reverend Divines of the Assembly and all the Reformed Churches By ADAM STEVART Amb. lib. 5. de Fide Si taceamus consentire videbimur si contendamus verendum ne carnales judicemur Imprinted at London 1644. TO THE READER COurteous Reader I pray thee excuse some of the most materiall faults fallen out partly by my absence partly by an accident that befell the Copy and to correct them as followeth PAge 3. line 8. read neither should he have feared a suppression of his book p. 10. l. 11. dele all that parenthesis ibid. p. l. 20. dele because p. 11. l. 9. read and those who interesse p. 16. l. 24. for but so r. and so p. 19. l. 26. r. for it was 1. it was p. 22. d. men p. 25. l. 3. r. Answ 1. ib. p. l. 5. for how r. 2. How ibid. p. l. 8. after the word Communion adde all that followeth 3. Either this Wel-willer pretendeth to play the Naturalist or the Divine If the Naturalist he knoweth not well the nature of the Northerly winde for ordinarily it bringeth not blacke but faire weather and scattereth the clouds as he might learne of all Naturalists ab Aqualone aurum from the North commeth gold i.e. golden or fair weather Iob 37.22 The North winde driveth away rain Prov. 25.23 If he play the Divine and allude to Scripture I must say to him as Christ said to the Jewes Ye erre not understanding the Scriptures for there it signifieth either the Spirit of Christ as in Salomons Song And then he must pray with the Church A wake O North-winde and come thou South blow upon my garden that the spices thereof may flow out Cant. 4.16 Or Gods people who were Northerne in respect of the Philistins who were their enemies so we must be Gods people and the Independenters whom this Wel-willer opposeth to the North their enemies or the Babylonians who were septentrionall or North-ward in respect of Gods people Esay 41.25 and so he esteemeth us to be Gods enemies if so how hold they us for one of the most pure Churches but what ever it signifie it can never signifie the Church of Scotland but in a very good sense Pag. 27. d. us p. 28. for Heb. panegr r. as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of Scripture Heb. 12.23 l. ult for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 29. l. 8. for vomit r. ye vomit p. 29. l. 30. d. of my selfe p. 43. l. 27. for two read five p. 35. l. 29. after the word narration adde all this that followeth Onely I pray the Reader to consider these mens craft in going about to sow the seeds of division betwixt the civill Magistrat the orthodox Churches in making the world to beleeve that they grant him more then the maximes of Presbyteriall Government will suffer them to do For 1. They tell not wherein 2. Whether this power be Ecclesiasticall or Civill as for the Ecclesiasticall they cannot give it 1. It being onely a Ministeriall power to serve not Magisteriall to dominiere with or to be given away by proxy to whom they please 2. If they give the Magistrat any power what can it be is it to preach to teach the power of the Keies to Excommunicate or to attend upon the sick and poore people and as for the civill it is not theirs but His Majesties and the Magistrates as is the constant tenet of all the Orthodox Churches who hold the Civill power incompatible with that of a Pastour or Doctor of the Church 3. If they grant the Magistrate more power then our Churches how is it that they acknowledge the Kings Patent in New-England for nothing else but in matters of State or Civill Government and Gods word onely in Church Government 4. He and they also hold the same rule in Old-England and therefore I pray all men only to consider if this be not rather a gulling of the Civill Magistrate then a proof of what they say 5. I wish him to answer whether New-England depend of Old-England and whether they thinke the King and Parliament have power to change Religion and Church Government there 6. Whether they both have power to do the same here against Gods word 7. Whether the Parliament have done well or not in calling of this Assembly of Divines to judge of matters of Religion As for us the constant opinion of all our Churches is that all Civill power belongeth onely to the Civill Magistrate and none at all to the Church 2. That the Civill Magistrate hath an extrinsecall executive power about Religion to maintaine and reforme it in case of corruption and that according to the presidents in Scripture Neither did ever any good Christian Prince assume any more to himselfe Neither doth it any way lessen his power that it is only extrinsecall for to be intrinsecall or extrinsecall signifieth not any quantity of greater or lesser power but onely the manner thereof for an extrinsecall power and influence may be greater then an intrinsecall as appeareth in that of the efficient and Materiall cause for the first is only active and yet extrinsecall but the second meerely passive without any action or efficacy at all and yet intrinsecall PErlegi tractatum hunc in quo nihil reperio quo minus cum utilitate publicâ imprimatur IA. CRANFORD BEfore I beginne the Refutation of this Pamphlet it shall not be amisse that I apologize for my selfe for refuting a Book already sufficiently refuted of it selfe and by that very same Booke whereof it intendeth the refutation I will therefore here declare unto the Christian Reader how I came to undertake it how unwilling I was to doe it upon what reasons I was moved thereunto The truth therefore is thus That some daies after the publication of this booke I hapned to fall in company with some men of quality that were reading of it and after the perusall thereof it was the joint wish of them all that some answer were drawne up unto it A few dayes after that I chanced to re-encounter with some of the same company and some others very well affected to Reformation who after sundry discourses fell upon the same Theme againe some of them saying that it would doe well that the Commissioners of the Church of Scotland would answer it Where some of them desiring me to deliver my opinion I replyed severall times as occasion required in substance that which followeth That it might seeme strange to others if men of such gravity and learning and much more of so eminent place and employment representing the whole Nationall Church of the Kingdome of Scotland should stoop to answer every idle
answereth not a word to the number of Church Officers or to their justification against the aspersions laid upon them for Lay Elders or their accusation against the Independents because of their Laymen Preachers and Prophets c. All this he passeth over by a Doctorall priviledge hic ubique terrarum tacendi Onely he scratcheth at the proofe they bring for Presbyteries Classes and Synods but refuteth it not no more then hee doth the Arguments brought by Master Rhetherford Guelaspe and others taken from Gods Attributes as 1. from his Goodnesse 2. Wisedome 3. Justice 4. Providence 5. from the nature of the Church c. Item from the Law of Nature 6. from sundry inconveniences 7. From the order established in the Church of the Jewes 8. From the practice of the Church in the times of the Apostles 9. From Christs institution in the New Testament 10. From parity of reason or proportion betwixt a Parishionall Session or Consistory and six or seven persons in the reall Church thereof and a combined Presbytery as ye call it and every one of the Churches peradventure two or three or ten thousand Parishionall Consistories subject thereunto 11. From the ends of the Church 12. her Conservation Peace c. whereof ye may happily heare more within a few dayes In the meane time I pray you answer to what is written and not to clude such arguments with tales at Assizes Wooll-packes Cannon-shot Bullets Batteries and termes of military Discipline wherewith we are not so well acquainted P. 10. § 3. Here it seemeth that this Doctor would excuse the Apologizers in saying that they give more to the Civill Magistrate then the principles of the Presbytertall gevernment will suffer them to yeeld As if it were rather said by way of retaliation and in anger then in truth because as he saith the peace-plea calleth them Independents If it be so 1. their passion is worthy of the others compassion 2. But this should not have made them to offend all the Reformed Churches and especially their Benefactors in the Netherlands which are all Presbyterians 3. All comparisons are also odious especially amongst men well bred 4. And yet howsoever they hate the name yet they love dearely the thing signified by the name and will depend of no Ecclesiasticall Judicatory yea as the Author of the Observations and Annotations sheweth clearly not upon all the Churches of the world and yet will that their Congregations depend of themselves who yet will depend upon no men in spirituall power or authority But the Doctor saith If upon a grosse errour of another Church they viz. Independent Churches dare exercise only a non communion with it then there is more left for the Magistrate to doe then when you have excommunicated it Answ In excommunicating a private person or a particular Church when it can be done with lesse hurt to the Church then is the good included therein it leaveth all to be done by the Magistrate that God has ordained him to doe viz. in politicall government Non auferet mortalia quiregna dat coelestia Neither requireth the godly Magistrate our King or this Parliament any more but ye are importune who will give him more then he requireth of you or then either God or the Magistrate hath commanded you The French say of such men Il est valet du Diable ilfait plus que commandement I will not here insist upon your impertinency in denying the name of excommunication to non communion and that great pride in not submitting the judgement of five or six some times idle yea oftentimes wicked felllowes to the judgement of all the Divines and Churches of the world in case they should dogmatise and sustein the most damnable heresies of the world and yet unto their judgement however so contemptible a number ye will submit the judgement of all their Congregation amounting peradventure to the number of many hundreds it may be better men then themselves Neither is it enough to leave it to the Civill Magistrate for his power is not spirituall God hath given an intrinsecall power to the Church sufficient for its spirituall end the Civill Magistrate may be a Pagan an Antichristian Christian an externall Christian but an inward enemy to the Church he may be negligent in his charge c. and is it credible that in such cases God hath instituted no Discipline or Government to take order with offenders But of this I need not to say any thing this evasion being so well so evidently and briefly refuted in the Commissioners own words which I pray the Reader to consider p. 21.22 if it please the Reader he may have sundry reasons against this opinion in the considerations and Annotations upon the Apologeticall Narration It is an untruth also that the Doctor presupposeth here viz. that a Classicall Presbyterie is made up of many Ministers and Lay men in the Kingdome of Scotland or among other Protestants And false againe that their Assemblies are made up of persons partly Ecclesiasticall partly civill or that they there rule persons partly Ecclesiasticall partly Civill we say that there can be no such persons for howsoever one person may have one charge Ecclesiasticall and another secular or Civill yet is he not therefore a mixt person neither be these severall charges mixt but distinguish'd in him fince of the two there resu'teth not any third Charge compounded of both as in mixtions but he exercises them both distinctly and severally in such a fashion that the one never concurreth to the function and operation of the other By the same reason it should follow that the divers faculties of the soule as the understanding expulsive facultie in a man should be mixt together since they be both in one soule as the most part of Philosophers hold When a States-man sitteth as a member of an Ecclesiasticall Assembly he sitteth no wayes as a States-man but as a Church-man neither judgeth he a State-man or secular person in qualitie of a States-man or of a secular person but in qualitie of a member of the Church So they judge not of civill matters formally as they are subject to the Civill Magistrates authority but materially in so far as they are subject to a spirituall formality or conduce to a spirituall end under the which notion they belong not ordinarily to the Civill Magistrate or per se intrinscce but per accidens extrinsece as all Orthodox Divines of the Reformed Churches do teach But this is not all for sundry of the Independents have told us that the Civill Magistrate according to Gods Word cannot punish any man for matters of Religion how abominable soever his opinions be P. 11. and 12. the Doctor will not answer because he hath not the Books at hand and so shifts over the argument What he saith of Aerius who held out against Bishops as our Reformed Churches doe is not to the purpose No more is this That Councells may erre
his sweet Brethren but to examine all things and to retaine what is good and to consider that a man so bold and adventrous as to propound in face of this most honourable and wise Parliament the venerable Assembly of so godly and learned Divines and of all the world so many so palpable untruths must needs be very passionate for those opinions which with so blinde a zeale and so little care of his credit hee maintaineth here and may be no lesse passionate in other things then in this As for the reasons and motives inducing me to refute this Libell they were not any stuffe the Booke contained or the least feare I had that it could worke upon any rationall man nor set I upon it with purpose to offend any man no not the five Independent Members of the Synod yea nor so much as the Author of this Libell who has so highly offended all the best Reformed Churches for never any one of them offended me neither is it their Act neither beleeve I that they had any hand in it or if they had any they avow it not And as for the Author I can not offend him wittingly since I know him not and this I hope would excuse very much the offence if any should be nor indeed ought hee to take offence at this Answer since he dare not owne the Booke Now if he be either a wise man or any wayes gracious I suppose hee ought rather to thanke mee for such an ingenuous reproving of his wicked calumnies against the whole body of the Reformed Churches for A reproofe saith the Wiseman entreth more into a wise man then an hundred stripes into a foole Besides as I conceive it is an act of love for as a Father saith Aust Epist ad Mate Magis amat objurgator sanans quam adulator dissimulans Neither can such indignities well bee endured by any man that knoweth how handsomly to cast them off especially when they are published in Print and that because of the imminent danger thereby of infecting the weaker sort of people not onely that now are but also of the posterity to come For as saith the Roman Philosopher Vitia transmittis ad posteres Sen. de Morib qui prasentibus culpis parcit But if he should be so fond as to thinke that he has done well in what he has done yet shall this Answer have some effect upon him for as Gregory saith well Greg in Past Protervos tunc melius corrigimus cum aequae bene egisse credunt male acta monstramus ut unde adepta gloria creditur inde utilis confessio sequatur As for me I can truly say my principall aime and motive was Gods honour the vindication of the Protestant Churches and especially that of Scotland from this mans vilde aspersions and to give contentment to good people who I am afraid may have beeno deceived with the glorious pretext of this mans piety and particularly that I might comply with the desires of those my worthy friends that moved me hereunto And so come I to the Title of the Booke which is A coole Conference betweene the cleered Reformation and the Apologeticall Narration braught together by a well willer to both Here it is to be observed 1. That this Booke carrieth with it no Approbation by those who are ordained by the Parliament to licence the printing of any Bookes From whence it may be inferred that in so contemning their Lawes and Ordinances and afterwards in maintaining that Independents of whom hee pretendeth to bee one give more to the Civill Magistrate then the principles of Presbyterian Government permit them to doe that this is done and that said in derision of them both and by a man no wise minded to practise what hee saith or professeth by some Nostro damus of whom it is said Nostro damus cum verba damus quia fallere nostrum Et cum verba damus nil nisi nostr a damus Or rather done as the Souldiers did to Christ who bowed the knee to him saying Haile King of the Iewes and mocked him spit upon him He giveth them much Paper-honour with much reall disgrace and will live as Independent upon all Civill as all Ecclesiasticall authoritie 2. It is to be observed as I said before that the Author taketh no proper name to himselfe but onely is described by a common name which is more ordinary among beasts then men For as mens individuall Natures and Persons are signified by proper Names so are all beasts ordinarily represented by names common to the whole Species if you except a few tame beasts so here there is no individuum signatum for to owne this Pamphlet which maketh some judicious men to thinke that he found himselfe conscious of what I have said or am to say and therefore went cunningly to worke in not owning it for feare of some castigation in stead of confutation 3. That this Authors common Name here is a Good-willer to both whereupon at first before that I had read over the Booke I wondred much what sort of creature this could bee what Hybrida and Amphisbaena in matter of Religion bred of so opposite Species having its heads in so opposite parts carried by so contrary motions towards so contrary ends viz. of Dependency and Independency But afterwards in running it over I found no such thing answerable to the Frontispiece neither in matter nor in manner For it ye consider the first it is nothing else but an intended justification howsoever with little successe of the Apologeticall Narration and a senslesse arraignment of the Reformation cleared If the second likewise his expressions which bee evermore we us our c. testifie most evidently that hee is a formall partie Truly hee willeth the Commissioners so little and his Quinqu ' Ecclesian Ministers so much good in this cause that he would make the world beleeve that the one partie saith all and the other nothing at all But what ever good ye will them pardon us if we give you no credit till they be brought together and it bee seene what each of them can say for themselves In the meane time I pray the Reader to take notice how this man in the evry threshold furnishes us with so evident an argument of his weaknesse in that intending a disguisement he had no better contrivance then by his owne penne so shamefully to bewray himselfe Alas poore man that professing here so much truth and honestie thou shouldst thus foully betray thy selfe to be neither true nor honest He endeth his Booke in an extraordinary way with an c. intimating something of the Booke behinde and afterward Finis assuring us of nothing behinde as if his onely aime were to contradict himselfe and so to try our patience and his owne parties credulity how farre the contrary partie will permit or his owne admit such palpable untruths both in the beginning and in the end of his Book Ecclesiast 10.32 The word of a
Afterwards he telleth us that French Ministers as Anonymus as himselfe and the French Discipline is for the Independenters but proveth it not but supposeth that we should take it upon his word which we may not at any hand doe till we see more candor and sincerity in his proceedings As for Merellus and some Ministers of the French Church excommunicated for their erronious opinions or ill lives and afterward assaulted the Discipline whereby they were sentenced if they have any such for them we envy them not such brethren Because the Commissioners p. 18. of the Reformation cleated mainteining the fidelity of the Reformers of the Scottish Church say that they deserted not their Churches nor caried away Churches with them nor did undergoe any voluntary exile but thought it a great spoile after that they were sentenced to exile to save their lives and to live with very small meanes farre from any friends to comfort them This the Doctor applieth to the Independenters of whom the Commissioners doe not speake but of their owne Ministers But since it is his pleasure to doe so I must say that hence it followeth that their exile was a far greater suffering then that of the Independents 1. for it was involuntary but the more involuntary that any afflictions be the greater they are and the more voluntary they be the leste they be for poena debet esse molesta involuntaria but that which is voluntary is not troublesome 2. That of the Independents was accompanied with many friends and worldly meanes so was not the other 3. It may be doubted if Pastours for their personall or particular persecution may fly without actuall compulsion and the publick consent of their Flock since they are not in the Church in quality of particular but of publick persons and Heads of the Flock Neither can that Text of Scripture helpe him viz. When they persecute you in one place flie to another for that is said of particular and not of publick persons or if it be said of the Apostles as to the Apostles it holdeth not in particular Ministers tyed to particular Churches for they are tyed to their particular Churches but so were not the Apostles who were equally bound to teach all the Churches of the world according to that saying of Christ Goe teach all Nations Matth. 28.19 and so could never abandon their flock And as for his Answer that they hept themselves for a reserve to assist the Church at their returne I must say they were very provident in foreseeing such an extraordinary case and prudent in preserving of their persons whereas the others sacrificed their lives for Christs truth Pag. 12. § 3. and p. 13. § 1. 2. the Doctor saith nothing against that which the Commissioners say and so approveth it he applieth it to the Independenters and denieth that they esteeme so of Excommunication viz. that to limit the censure of Excommunication in matter of opinion to the common and uncontroverted principles and in the matter of manners to the common and universall practises of Christianitie and in both to the parties known light is the dangerous opinion of the Arminians and Socinians openeth a wide dore and proclaimeth libertie to all other practises and errors which are not fundamentall and universally abhorred by all Christians c. To this he answereth with complaints and saith that there is no argument here But in this Laconick discourse there be more arguments then he seeth The first is Arminians and Socinians opinions are not to be received But to limit Excommunication in matters of opinion c. is Arminians and Socinians opinions Ergo It is not to be received The second is What openeth a doore and proclaimeth libertle to all other practifes and errors which are not fundamentall is not to be admitted But to limit Excommunication c. is such Ergo it is not to be admitted The third is An opinion universally abhorred by all Christians is not to be received But to limit Excommunication in matter of opinion to the common uncontroverted principles and in matter of manners to the common and universall practises of Christianitle and in both to the parties known light viz. of Nature or of Grace is an opinion universally abhorred by all Christians Ergo to limit Excommunication c. is not to be admitted 4. The Doctrine that tendeth to the overthrow of the Reformed Religion is not to be received But to limit excommunication c. tendeth to the overthrow of the Reformed Religion Ergo it is not to be received To these Arguments he answereth not formally neither to the matter nor to the forme and no wonder for he could not observe them Only to the end he may seeme not to have answer'd nothing at all he telleth us that Pagans and Infidels doe not practise But how is that to the purpose since in all the Commissioners Discourse there is not one word of Pagans or Infidels 2. He answereth that Papists Prelates Socinians Arminians Brownists and Separatists doe not hold some common truths with Christians But to what purpose he saith this I know not if it be to prove that they may be excommunicated we deny it not but say that to hold such an opinion is Arminianisme Socinianisme c. i. e. an Arminian or Socinian opinion whereunto he answereth not Againe by Socinians Arminians c. either he understandeth those who are not borne in the Church and who professe not our Religion or those who are borne in the Church and professe our Religion If the first they cannot be excommunicated since they are not nor ever were of our communion if the last it is true they may be excommunicated but that is not the question but whether this be not Socinianisme and Arminianisme viz. to limit Excommunication in matter of Opinion to the common and uncontroverted principles and in matter of Manners to the universall practises of Christianity Item whether this openeth not a doore to all other errors and practises as they say After this when he can answer nothing he returneth unto his ordinary lamentations that they are compared to Infidels c. But the Commissioners serve not themselves of bare comparisons as ye use to doe but with solid Arguments which prove you clearely what they say neither are ye compared by them with Seperatists but I prove you to be such for separating your selves from the reformed Churches Sacramental communion neither are ye compared with Brownists c. for conforming of Church Government with Scripture as ye pretend but for perverting of it against Scripture wherefore all these your complaints are nothing else but calumnies that yee cast upon the Church of Christ evermore sophisticating with your captions of non causa ut causa according to the ordinary custome of your Sect. And I pray this Doctor what if a man become bruitish and have the light of his understanding altogether corrupted so as to deny that there is any sinne against the light of Nature
them in the Lord but not to rule ever themselves and others Answ 1. What is Well-willer understandeth by Congregations whether Ministers alone of Ruling Elders alone or both together or men or all men women and children and in a word all the members of the Church I know not Neither doth hee expresse his minde upon this point Only I must say that being once in company with some of their Preachers I heard some women maintaine stoutly in presence of the Minister without any contradiction made by him that women also had power in Ecclefiasticall Assemblies to judge of Controversies of Religion and in matter of all Ecclesiasticall Censures 2. I answer it is one thing 1. to call a Church Officer to his charge or to give him his vocation or calling 2. another to send him into the charge or to give him his mission 3. another to admit him into the charge and to elect him or choose him The first is an act of the Church officers who examine his life and Doctrine and afterwards give him his Ordination in the name of the whole Ministry The second is an act of those who send him and sometimes is done by the Ministers in a Colloque or a Synod which give him his Ordination as when hee is sent to feed a particular flocke sometimes by a particular Church as in some particular Commission to a Classe or Synod but in the name of the universall visible Church as yee see in the Assembly at Antiochia in sending some Ministers to the Assembly at Hierusalem The third is an act sometimes of particular Churches as in the admission and election of their owne Ministers Sometimes of a Colloque and Synod as in the admission of the Members therof as in that Synod at Hierusalem And here to avoid all Sophistications of our Adversaries note that I speak here only of the visible Church according to its visible forme and consequently of the visible and externe Vocation Mission Admission and Election of Ministers so I say every Church chooses i. e. elects its owne Ministers but it calleth them not nor sendeth them It giveth them not their generall Vocation nor Mission into the Ministery but that is an act of the whole Church which in actu signato belongeth to the whole Church but in actu exercito according to the exigence of time and places to particular Ministers not in quality of Ministers of particular Congregations but of greater consociations in a representative body of many particular Churches So a Minister in a Synod hath power of God by the whole visible Church to judge rule and feed many Churches positis ponendio ut poni debent so as nothing thereunto requisite bee wanting but all ordered as it should viz. if it be by consent or election of his particular Church and he bee admitted by the Classe or Synod whereunto he is sent c. as it is ordinarily practised in our Reformed Churches Master Well-willer replyeth againe That Episcopacy is as intrinsecall to particular Churches as the Presbyteric since Bishops are chosen by the people at their instalment where customarily people are allowed to make any just exception Answ I deny the Assumption viz. that it is as intrinsecall and that for the reason brought by the Commissioners As for that which hee bringeth for confirmation thereof viz. because they are chosen by the people I answer 1. It is not enough they have their Election from the people but they must also have their Vocation and Mission from the Church in the name and authority of Christ which they have not according to this Well-willers owne Tenets 2. Because the people can make no Church Officer and principally Ministers since they have not the abilities to judge of their learning and gifts 3. In choosing of an Archbishop it is not morally possible that all the people can elect him and especially when he is a great Archbishop or a Primate over a whole Kingdome for all the people cannot well meet together 4. And howbeit they could meet yet could not their consent and voyces easily be gathered 5. It were a ridiculous thing in choosing of him to seek the consent and voyces of every idle and ignorant fellow yea of women that are of the people 6. Neither is it enough to chose a Bishop to make any just exception for that is not to elect him but to hinder his Election 7. Neither is this ordinarily practised 8. And Master Well-willer to the Bishops here confesseth in the next line that it hath had little successe But Master Well-willer confirmeth it out of that ordinary passage of Hieronymus To avoid Schisme one of the classicall Presbyterie was chosen to be as Chair man Answ 1. Such a Bishop is not an English or Papist Bishop but a Moderator of the action or a Master of the Chaire which will not make up a Bishop in so farre as a Bishop is distinguished from an ordinary Minister for yee your selves pretend to have your Synods which cannot be without some Moderator President or Master of the Chaire and yet ye deny that ye have any Bishops or Episcopall Government 2. Neither are Bishops annually 3. To bee short Master Well-willer bringeth us here no reall but imaginary Bishops in the Kingdome of Utopia viz. that are only Masters of the Chaire annuall c. 4. Item whose Chancellour Archdeacon c. were Parishioners 5. Their Chancellours are not ordinarily Ecclesiasticall but Lay-men as ye call them who neverthelesse judge of all Ecclesiasticall Causes which ye ordinarily blame 6. Neither have they Vocation from God as yee confesse Neither are they chosen by all the Churches that they rule and feed if any food they give and feed not themselves with the fat of the people You are also too bold Master Well-willer to say that the people formerly have beene as willing they should reigne as ever any people were in your Kingdome to have the Presbytery ever them Answ We can shew you hundreds yea thousands who have cutled their Government both in England and in Ireland and what hath been the good will of the Scots towards them they can best tell themselves as having felt it these foure or five yeares last past But as for the Presbyterian Government ye have never heard the People murmure much lesse rise up against it 2. But if it be so that ye have found them so sweet what needed ye run away and desert the Church here They did compell Ministers and Churchwardens to doe many things against their conscience and in case of refufall did ordinarily undoe them as we can produce many examples both in England and Ireland yea of the Independenters themselves before that they spake this way in despite of the Reformed Churches The like of this cannot without singular impudence be said to have been any where practised by any Scots Presbyterie We grant you that it is not the peoples consent only but if according to the Word that makes a Government lawfull But wherefore may not a Congregationall representative Church as well choose men for Classicall Assemblies as for Synods What pattern have you for the one rather then for the other To all this according to your usuall custom ye say much but prove litle or nothing of what is in dispute betwixt us many books ye make but little to the purpose And now when ye can doe no better ye can your selves most desperately on the Bishops side to maintain their cause when ye are yet too weake to maintaine your own This Well-willer in the end of his Booke wishes that the Commissioners golden speech be written upon all their actions viz. That those that are most averse to Presbyterie if they allow no matertall difference in Doctrine Worship or Practice might enjoy their peace and all comforts of their Ministery and Profession under it without controllment of that Authoritative power which they so much apprehend And thereunto replieth We have saith he been of late made to feare the contrary by the reports of some not of the meanest ranke rf your own Nation Answ No godly man that knoweth what is Presbyterian Government can doubt of it for according to the rules thereof 1. no man is compelled to be Actor in any thing against his own conscience 2. If you will be under it and allow no materiall difference c. without doubt the Synod and all Orthodox Churches will cherish you and assure you of it But if ye wil ever live in Panick feares and be so witty as evermore to find out new matter of jealousies to vex your own soules and make you to live in such a perpetuall diffidence all the forces of the King and his three Kingdomes is not able to hinder it ye must trust in God and admit of such securitie from your Brethren as morally ye can have If this doe not the businesse we know not what to advise you As for that Anonymous Country-man of ours who he can be and if any such be and whether his discourse with you could give you matter of just feare we know not and therefore forbeare to answer Only I wish seriously on your behalfe ye would doe nothing against the glory of your God the weale of your Country or to the breach of charity with your Brethren who so much desire to live in peace with you all The peace of God be with you all Amen FINIS