Selected quad for the lemma: religion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
religion_n	civil_a	magistrate_n	matter_n	3,433	5	6.0251	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A91879	The falsehood of Mr. VVilliam Pryn's Truth triumphing, in the antiquity of popish princes and Parliaments. To which, he attributes a sole, sovereigne, legislative, coercive power in all matters of religion; discovered to be full of absurdities, contradictions, sacriledge, and to make more in favour of Rome and Antichrist, than all the bookes and pamphlets which were ever published, whether by papall or episcopall prelates, or parisites, since the reformation. With twelve queries, eight whereof visit Mr. Pryn the second time, because they could not be satisfied at the first.	Robinson, Henry, 1605?-1664?	1645 (1645)	Wing R1672; Thomason E273_16; Thomason E282_11; ESTC R200048	28,156	36

of Scotland Discipl pag. 89. THe Nationall Assemblies ought alwayes to be received in their owne liberty and have their owne place And all men as well Magistrates as inferiours to be subject to the judgement of the same in Ecclesiasticall causes without any reclamation or appellation to any judge Civill or Ecclesiasticall within the Realme Doctor Adam Stuart's second part of his Duply to the two Brethren p. 30. The Civill Magistrate is subject in a spirituall way unto the Church He must learne Gods will by the Ministers of the Church who are Gods Ambassadours sent to him He must be subject to Ecclesiasticall censures Mr. William Pryn in the Title page termes his Truth triumphing over Falshood A just and seasonable vindication of the undoubted Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction Right Legislative Coercive power of Christian Emperours Kings Magistrates Parliaments in all matters of Religion Church-government Discipline Ceremonies Manners Authour of the Pamphlet entituled The readinesse of the Scots advance into England 6. of November 1643. The Generall Assembly is subordinate to no Civill judicature whatsoever c. Apollonius Considerat Quarund Controvers c. p. 108. Particular Churches as well as Generall Assemblies have their authority immediately from God Mr. Thomas Edwards sayes in his Antapologia p. 163. Junius Zanchius Amesius c. make the subject matter of politicall adminstration to be res humanae humane things and matters but of Ecclesiasticall divine and sacred Page 166. Is it that you doe give a power to the Magistrate in Ecclesiasticall things of the ultimate determination of matters purely Ecclesiasticall which the Presbyterians principles doe not as in matters of doctrine scandall c. And page 168. Spirituall remedies and meanes must be used in the Kingdome of Christ and by them Christ doth his worke And hence in Ecclesiasticall Discipline and those scandalls in the Church which are the point in hand punishments in the body or in the purse which can be by the power of the Magistrate have no place Divines of the Church of Scotland in a booke called A Dispute against the English Popish Ceremonies obtruded upon the Church of Scotland p. 150. It followeth that Christ hath committed the power of judging defining and making lawes about those matters viz. which concern the worship of God not to Magistrates but to the Ministers of the Church Calvin Institut l. 4. c. 11. sect 16. Since the Church hath of its owne any power of compelling neither may require it I speake of Civill coercive power it is the duty of pious Kings and Princes to uphold Religion by their lawes edicts and judgements Junius Controvers 3. l. 3. c. 26. sect 12. Whereas some things are matters of conscience and belong to the judicatory of Heaven that I may speake according to the Canonists others humane and temporall appertaining to an earthly judicatorie in sacred divine and Church affaires the judgement is never lawfully committed unto the Civill Magistrate no not to the Emperour himselfe because holy things are of another Kingdome and cognizance Six Impossibilities which doe necessarily accompany persecution for cause of Conscience 1 IT is impossible that the Gospell should come to be preached unto all Nations if men may be questioned for matters of conscience 2 It is impossible that such as know but in part should grow in knowledge or from one measure and degree of faith unto another 3 It is impossible that in a rationall way there should be a firme secure peace throughout the world nay not in a Province City or Towne so long as men make a point of conscience to compell one another to their opinions 4 It is impossible to prescribe such a way for suppressing new or different opinions whatsoever which to any State or Church may seeme hereticall but there will still be left a gap a possibility of fighting against God even when such State or Church thinke they fight for him most of all 5 It is impossible that either the weake beleevers mis-beleevers or unbeleevers can be won by our godly conversation as is required 1 Pet. 2. 12. and 3. 1. 2. 1 Cor. 7. 12. 16. so long as we will not suffer them to live amongst us 6 It is impossible for a man to hold fast the truth or be fully perswaded in his owne heart of what he does of what Religion he makes choice of unlesse after he hath searched the Scriptures and try'de the spirits whether they be of God or no it be lawfull for him to reject that which shall appeare to him as evill and adhere to that which seems good in his owne judgement and apprehension The Falshood of Mr. William Prynn's Truth Triumphing briefly discovered Sir YOur Title sayes Truth triumphing over Falshood Antiquity over Novelty you meane I suppose Antick Truth over Novel Falshood And the truth is whoever considers your ensuing Discourse will finde it to bee Antick Truth very Antick such as to the Reformed World of Christians would well neere have quite been antiquated and totally become ridiculous had not such unskilfull Antiquaries as William Prynne of Lincolns Inn Esquire taken so much unnecessary and thankles paines in gathering them up from Dunghills and by whole Volumnes and Impressions to delude and cozen the unstable people of his party the truth whereof that himselfe and all others into whose hands this paper happens may suddenly perceive besides the severall absurdities and contradictions let them only take notice that both the Truth and Antiquity hee so much speakes and boasts of are deduced only from the abominable presidents of superstitious Popery some whereof I shall particularly and yet briefly mention as I finde them confusedly pestred amongst themselves in the undigested rapsody of his more vaine Discourse But before I leave the specious Title thereof I desire all Readers may observe how amongst others you terme it a Vindication of the undoubted Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction Legislative of Christian Emperours by Scripture texts as if amongst your Antick readings you had discovered some New-found-Land wherein you would make your over credulous Disciples thinke there had lived Christian Emperours before or at the writing of the Scriptures who verified your Antick Doctrine and Assertions This Grand taske like a very Atlas you pretend to take upon you in Refutation of Mr. John Goodwin without so much as disturbing any of his arguments or of the Answers to your twelve Questions which both your Epistle and the latter part of your Booke take notice of but because you cannot make a satisfactory Reply and yet are not so ingenuous as to acknowledge it and yeeld to Truth you traduce as malicious and full of virulencie against Presbytery and the Scots page 125. and worse then the Popish Gunpowder plot Epist Dedic Are not these powerfull Arguments able to confute the very Apostles had they but been alledged in their dayes by such an irreconcileable and implacable spirit as is Mr. Prynn's witnesse besides others his proceedings against Colonell Fines Surely your friends will

lucubrations you may like enough say dreames borrowed from the houres allotted to your necessary naturall rest Epist Dedic One would have thought the Answerer of your subitane apprehensions digested into 12 considerable serious questions when you confessed you had neither leisure nor opportunity had given you a seasonable and sufficient item not to trouble the world with such trash againe and yet you are not ashamed to say you published them principally for satisfaction of the learned and such as most seduce the ignorant when doubtlesse such learning as this of yours is good for nothing else but to seduce the ignorant who more admire a margent full of rusty antick Authours than whole leaves and chapters of arguments and sound reason and according to your own arguing you do hereby as you think with your indigested readings of superstitious Popish writers enable such as you call learned still farther to seduce the ignorant You tell the Parliament in your Epistle Dedicatory that having had the honour of vindicating their sovereigne power in all Civill and Military affaires you expected a quietus est from all other coutroversies concerning the jurisdiction of Parliaments especially in Ecclesiasticall matters Surely you might have said with as much truth and reason that having vindicated the sovereigne power of the Roman Emperours suppose the persecuting Nero Domitian Trajan or who else lived in any of the Apostles or Primitive times you had likewise vindicated their legislative power in matters of Christianity about propagating the Gospell c. justifying them in putting to death our Saviour and so many of his Saints The just rights and power of Magistrates are to all Magistrates alike all one whether they be Christian or Pagan Their power is given them as Magistrates not as Christians and the subjection which we were commanded in the Gospell Matth. 22. 21. Rom. 13. 1. 1 Pet. 2. 12. 13. to render them was as to Heathen Magistrates since at that time there were no other But why tro doe you say how most men imagined that controversies about the Parliaments jurisdiction in Ecclesiasticall matters had been put to eternall silence when our lordly Prelates lost their votes and session in Parliament by a publique law Did you not intend that Presbyters should succeed Bishops or did you thinke them to be lesse lordly than their Reverend Fathers from whom they spring Surely you show your selfe very ignorant of the Presbyterians pretences or endeavour much to conceale them Meethinks you might have seen a Pamphlet entituled The readinesse of the Scots advance into England wherein besides others is a letter bearing date the 6 of November 1643. from Edenborough upon occasion as it relates of certaine propositions made by the French Agent unto the Privy Councell there which sayes The Generall Assembly is subordinate to no Civill judicature whatsoever c. And because I finde Mr. Pryn so captious and apt to seeke subterfugies lest he should cast this off as the bare assertion of some Anonimous he may if hee please finde not a little to the same purpose in A. Stewards Observations and Annotations upon the Apologeticall Narration in these words The Civill Magistrate arrogates not unto himselfe not so much as any directive power in matters of Religion p. 5. The Civill Magistrate arrogates no spirituall authority to himselfe p. 48. The Parliament indeed is the supreme Judicature severe Tribunall the most sacred Refuge c. in Civill causes but it pretends no directive power in matters of Religion by teaching or preaching or judging of controversies of Religion nor any executive power that is intrinsecall to the Church as in the vocation deposition and suspention of Ministers c. which are meerly spirituall p. 6. If your meaning be that the Parliament should judge between the Independents and Presbyterians you goe against the Parliaments intentions ibid. and lastly For intrinsecall spirituall power it is not in your power to grant the Civill Magistrate any at all neither can you give him more spirituall obedience than Scripture permitteth you or give him a part of the spirituall power which you have received of God It is only in God who can give power therein to any man we dare not be so bold p. 28. All this the Answerer of your 12 considerable Questions as you called them auvertised you of in p. 26. And for Apollonius whom you so much glory in as I told you a little before he sayes that both particular Churches as well as Generall Assemblies have their authority immediately from God p. 108. which diametricall variance amongst these Presbyterian Champions doubtlesse must needs be ominous and presage no lesse than ruine so much more speedier as they protract the reconciling them In which respect if Mr. Pryn would be so good for the Gospels sake as to give the Independents rest and take A. S. with Apollonius to taske who knowes but that they may doe some good upon one another I am sure it were not more than needfull each of their phansies abounding with excrescencies which they might much advantage each other in cutting off But what availeth it to have the head of one lordly Episcopall Prelate cut off when a Hydra a multitude above 77 times as many Presbyteriall Prelates succeed instead thereof Prelatia Prelaty Prelacy as we use it vulgarly is a preferring one before another and the Presbyteriall government is much more truly said to be Prelaticall than either Episcopall or Papall unlesse you will say that neither Episcopall nor Papall be Prelaticall at all for in either of those Governments there are but few Prelates but in the other there are many to wit so many Prelates as there are Presbyters each whereof is an absolute Prelate that is one preferred above his Brethren You speake of the defunct Prelates soules transmigrated into the Independents acknowledging them for the most part really cordiall in their affections actions to the Parliament and Church of England for which and for their piety you say they are to be highly honoured But mee thinks this amounts to little lesse than contradiction Can the earthly Tabernacles of Independents with the defunct Prelates soules in them make men of piety cordiall in their affections actions to the Parliament and Church of England highly to bee honoured I wish Mr. Pryn would tell me whether it were the Prelaticall soules or their earthly Tabernacles for whose sake he casts this grand Elogium on them Doubtlesse the soule must have preheminence of the body unlesse your minde bee altered and hold the immortality of the soule which you seemed to discountenance in your 12 Inconsiderable serious Questions p. 7. But if Independents having Prelaticall soules in their earthly Tabernacles are for the most part men of piety highly to be honoured why should not the Prelates bee so too The truth is I cannot deny but Mr. Pryn was once by more then a many and they godly too held to be a man of piety and was highly honoured in whose books and

right of Christian Princes for calling such Assemblies can any wayes make legall the present sitting of the Divines at Westminster or how he can make atonement for himselfe to give occasion that both their assembling and whole proceedings may thus be called in question But p. 88. you bring in a Parenthesis which doubtlesse the Assembly will thinke had far better beene left out that the assent of the Clergy is only by way of assistance and advice not simply necessary to the Parliaments determining what is heresie however for my part I do not much dissent with you therein and if the Assembly did like as well thereof should thinke it might somewhat qualifie their over forward and eager appetites which else might too likely lead them to declare those wayes hereticall after which Paul was not ashamed to say hee worshipped the God of his Fathers Act. 24. 14. But may not both Kings and Parliaments reprove you like an unlucky Cow who having given great quantity of milke kicks it downe with her foot for contradicting your selfe and plundring them so speedily of all Ecclesiasticall power which before in a good mood you cast upon them so liberally without allowance saying p. 141. That there is the selfe same reason and equity for severall combined Churches in a Councell Synod Presbytery to have a coercive power over every particular Congregation in their limits as for any particular Congregation to claime or exercise a jurisdiction in point of direction or correction over any or every particular member of it This assertion I conceive is yet more prodigious than all your Popish presidents with which you ever were acquainted and I beleeve that never any body hereafter will so much as acknowledge you in this opinion Whereas the Title of your Booke and whole Discourse in generall ascribe all power and authority unto the Civill Magistrate both in Civill and Ecclesiasticall matters This passage gives the same unto a Synod even a Coercive that is all Power and Authority and that both in Civill and Ecclesiasticall matters provided they doe but colour and call them Ecclesiasticall for nothing of Coercive can be otherwise than Civill properly If you excuse your selfe by saying you meant a Synod ratified by Authority of Parliament I answer that you must meane a Synod so ratified by Authority of Parliament as some Presbyterians of Scotland meane when they expect that Parliaments must doe it ex officio whether they bee willing or unwilling and if your meaning had been otherwise you might have brought your comparison betweene a Parliament and particular Congregations not a Synod besides that the power of direction which you acknowledge to be in every particular Congregation towards any or every member thereof I doe not finde to bee granted them or so much as medled with by Authority of Parliament so likewise if you will have it any wayes hold parallel you must meane the Synods Canons so confirmed by authority of Parliament as that the Parliaments confirmation must still wait upon and follow the Synods beck and requisition That part of the Statute 37. H. 8. c. 17. which you bring to establish the King Head of the Church sayes That by Holy Scripture All Authority and Power is wholly given to him to heare and determine All manner of causes Ecclesiasticall and to correct All vice and sinne whatsoever and such persons as his Majesty shall appoint thereunto So that whereas a negative voice which hath beene and is still the great controversie betwixt the King and Parliament in Civill matters only this Statute 37. H. 8. c. 17. with Mr. Pryns opinion and consequences thereupon doe freely grant the King in all spirituall causes and affaires Surely if all Englishmen did agree with Mr. Pryn in this particular the King might like enough be willing for the present to part from his negative voice in Civill matters in full assurance of regaining it in recompence of Pardons and Dispensations which he might grant by virtue of his Headship of the Church with the sole authority of correcting all vice and sinne and finall determining all causes Ecclesiasticall The truth is that Christian Kings and Princes have de facto done much with Civill censures in maintenance of Religion whether right or wrong established by Law But the point is what they did or might doe lawfully de jure Whence is their power derived Surely the power of Princes pretending to the name of Christian whether Papists Lutherans Calvinists Brownists or Anabaptists and even of Turkish and Pagan Princes is all alike So that whatsoever power the best Reformed Princes can justly assume unto themselves in Ecclesiasticall affaires even Popish Kings and the Great Turk may fully pretend and act as much in and about the Churches within their Territories and neither of them be more disobeyed or resisted than the other The power is given to them as Magistrates and Princes not as Christians otherwise they might be deposed at any time if they became Antichristian which is exploded for a Popish doctrine But as Artaxerxes did not make that Decree for building of the Temple out of love or conscience unto the God of Ezra Ezra 7. from v. 21. to 26. So can it not be concluded from Kings and Magistrates interposing their Civill power about matters meerly Ecclesiasticall that therefore they might and did doe it by full authority from God since by the selfe same manner of arguing it would follow that Popery were the truest Religion because most Christian Princes as they are called have established Popery But it may have beene observed how Princes and Magistrates in all ages who have had the Sword of Justice in their keeping have for the most part beene kept in an ignorant and superstitious overawfulnesse by the Clergy of those times who still for their owne private ends prevailed with them to countenance and enforce their Constitutions by coercive meanes upon the people by which device of theirs both Prince and People became so entangled and ensnared to them by degrees that if either of them afterwards sought to withdraw themselves forth from this bondage they still found such a party of the other as was able to curb and bring them againe into subjection of Holy Church as they pretended though never so Popish or otherwise corrupt And this series of corrupted and corrupting presidents with their tyrannicall dominion over mens faith and consciences which the Apostle Paul disclaimed 2 Cor. 1. 24. Mr. Pryn produces as orthodox requiring it should bee established after the manner of Medes and Persians irrevocable and made very Scripture of ascribing by this Antick rabble of quotations as great a power unto the Civill Magistrate in spirituall matters as ever any Pope of Rome assumed unto himselfe But if the Civill Magistrate must be masters of our faith determining all controversies in Church affaires why I pray was Mr. Pryn so refractory to the Bishops who then were authorised by the Civill Magistrate of the united Kingdome which now

23. 8. Their owne reason must guide them Their owne understanding must bee the ultimate resolver of their wills and none but their owne faith can save them 2 Cor. 13. 5. Gal. 6. 4. 5. Rom. 14. 12. From the non-submitting unto some Councells Synods and Parliaments which you perhaps may not thinke erronious will follow no other worse consequence than this That a man may likewise refuse to heare or not believe some Sermons which you perhaps may hold worth hearing and necessary to be beleeved though others as wise and godly as your selfe doe thinke the contrary which you may well be so indulgent as to grant your Independent Brethren since they will doe the like for you expecting with long-suffering untill you be convinc'd or you convince them peaceably Page 154. You proceed and say admit Synods Councells Parliaments have sometimes erred out of human frailty yet this is a most certaine truth that they are not so apt to erre as private men or Conventicles of persons lesse learned lesse experienc'd c. But this may not passe for orthodox neither if not many wise not many learned are called be Scripture 1 Cor. 1. 20. 26. besides experience teaches us that God doth not discover his truth by whole-sale nor to whole Nationall Churches or Generall Councells at once but rather by degrees and that for the most part at first to some contemptible person perhaps in the eyes of the world who had no earthly superfluities or so much as any naturall preheminence to tempt or to withdraw him from being Gods Ambassadour or Trumpeter to publish it unto a people or whole Nation it may be not without his utmost perill And besides doe we not finde that even these more learned of whom the Councells and Synods are pretended to be compacted are they who most of all deceive Are they not by their unsanctified human learning and wisdome the better enabled nay doe they not by that meanes become like so many decoy's to lead the multitude the rabble after them over hedge and ditch and too too often into the very ditch it selfe But what if Synods Councells and Parliaments were lesse apt to erre and best qualified to discover Truth and debate matters of controversie It will not follow from thence that either of them may therefore impose their supposed Truthes for other than suppose they cannot be for want of infallibility or finall determinations upon the other If there were a necessity that the greater part should have this spirituall dominion or rather a Civill power in a spirituall government over the lesser or the lesser over the greater then there might be some colour for the greater to have precedencie in some respects But since either of them would be absolutely sinfull we must grant it unto neither Page 155. You say That though it cannot be proved that all the Elders Brethren and whole Church of Jerusalem were infallibly inspired yet they all said it seemeth good to the Holy Ghost and them To which I answer that their saying so was an infallible signe that all of them were then as concerning what they affirmed infallibly inspired otherwise not only the Brethren with the rest of the Church but the Apostles also might possibly have told a lie in saying so in joyning with them in one common verdict Act. 15. v. 23. Nay it might even now and ever may be said hereafter to the end of the world that this passage in the Acts of the Apostles It seemeth good to the Holy Ghost and us is not of infallible truth unlesse that both the Apostles Brethren and whole Church had beene infallibly assisted in saying so They spake not One for All but All of them in One or One Spirit even God himselfe who is One in All of them infallible Say but as much and upon as good grounds and reason in behalfe of the Synod which sits now at Westminster and you say something but for your great promise under the Gospell that God will powre out his Spirit upon all flesh surely it makes as much for Independents unlesse you suppose them to be some New-found Land-fish But you yeeld it may be objected how perhaps all or the greatest part of the Parliament and Assembly are not endued with the sanctifying Spirit of God therefore they cannot use this language It seemeth good to the Holy Ghost and us This objecting of yours I confesse is somewhat ingenious but alas it seemes you desire not to continue so in that you take such paines in shruging and shifting to evade the force and truth thereof by saying 'T is only knowne to God who are his and admit there may be some few among them who have not Gods sanctifying Spirit yet I doubt not but very many if not the major part of them have Is not this profoundly answered Thousands of conscientious godly people object how it is possible that all or the greatest part of the Parliament and Assembly may not be indued with the sanctifying Spirit of God and Mr. Pryn pretends to answer them by saying he doubts not but they have Is he not a doughty champion But what if it should be objected that it may yet more fully than by perchance be said it cannot be made appeare that there is so much as one neither in the Parliament nor Assembly who have had an infallible assistance of the sanctifying Spirit in any thing they have done already or shall ever doe hereafter and must we then necessarily be of their Religion of their faith implicitly yet we submit you see unto them in Civill matters our estates our lives and what ever we have that is mortall has beene devoted if not sacrificed to justifie their power and our subjection but the rest must be reserved for him only who is Lord Paramont of spirits as well as flesh Surely Mr. Pryn 't is no small disservice which you doe both Parliament and Assembly in thus exposing their proceedings to be questioned by no little and that the most conscionable and best affected party of the Kingdome such spirits of contention as this of yours were those which made the first great breach amongst the Parliaments friends I meane betwixt the Independents and Presbyterians and now your selfe as the chiefe Ring-leader has begun a subdivision even among the Presbyterians by attributing after such an imperious and reproaching manner towards all such as dissent from your opinion that supreme legislative power to Civill Magistrates in all matters of Religion which our Brethren of Scotland appropriate only to Nationall Assemblies How great a stumbling-blocke this may grow to in time and the miserable consequences thereof I leave to your saddest morning thoughts to be better considered on and wish you would forbear to publish such midnight subitane distracted lucubrations as you your selfe well call them to the great detriment and endangering both of Church and Common-wealth Twelve Queries Eight whereof presume to make a second visit to Mr. Pryn importuning his resolution in

THE FALSEHOOD OF Mr. VVILLIAM PRYN'S TRVTH TRIVMPHING In the Antiquity of Popish Princes and PARLIAMENTS TO WHICH He attributes a Sole Sovereigne Legislative Coercive power in all matters of Religion discovered to be full of absurdities contradictions sacriledge and to make more in favour of Rome and Antichrist than all the bookes and pamphlets which were ever published whether by Papall or Episcopall Prelates or Parisites since the Reformation WITH Twelve Queries Eight whereof visit Mr. Pryn the second time because they could not be satisfied at the first Printed in London 1645. EPIST. DEDICATORY To Mr. William Fryn of Lincolnes Inne Esquire SIR I May safely appeale to Whatsoever is of esteeme and deare unto you how I could much rather have bemoan'd in private that perverse and implacable spirit of yours had not you of late so inconsiderately bespatter'd so many Pamphlets which have infected the very aire far worse than any most malignant epidemicall contagion by having inherited the priviledge to be cryed up and downe the streets and publicke places instead of Royall Proclamations to the great scandall of your most conscientious Brethren and suppressing truth both Spirituall and Civill which had more than begun to shine out so gloriously since the first assembling of this present Parliament You have done as much as in you lyes to divide the Independents from the Parliament by grudging them a peaceable abiding place in the land of their inheritance and provok'd our Brethren of Scotland by fixing or fastning upon Christian Emperours Kings Magistrates Parliaments the undoubted legislative coercive power in all matters of Religion Title page and that even without the assistance or advice of Synods page 88. I doe but advertise you thereof though it be knowne so publickly that Aulicus tooke notice of it so long since consider the high consequences thereof and the mischiefe it may grow unto unlesse prevented opportunely Both King and Parliament pretend to have taken up Armes to defend the Protestant Religion c. and yet fight one against another no lesse than both of them opposed it The King wonders the Parliament should entertain Brownists and Anabaptists to fight for the Protestant Religion and the Parliament marvels no lesse that the King should entertaine Papists to doe the same But may they not both alike wonder at each other in this particular or rather why should either of them at all wonder at such proceedings since the Papists in matter of doctrine beleeve all which Protestants beleeve and both Brownists and Anabaptists hate Popery and superstition as much as Protestants But if the Protestant Religion can be truly propagated by fighting surely both Papists Brownists and Anabaptists even Turkes and very Dogs may be brought and taught to fight for it all alike but when you have spent your spirits and distill'd away your braines you will perceive at last if ever your eyes be open as I desire unfainedly that it is the most irrationall and Vn-Gospel-like course under heaven to imploy the arm of flesh to work upon the spirit Take heed then what you say or explaine to us what you and your party meane when you make the supreme Civill Magistrate to be custodem utriusque tabulae Tell us whether the Great Turke Emperour Kings of Spain France Poland c. be not lawfull Civill Magistrates how you can abridge them this Prerogative of both Tables or quit their duty in taking charge of them more than any Prince or Magistrate of Christendome Did not Paul tell Timothy and Mr. Pryn in him that the time would come when men would not indure sound doctrine but turne away their eares from the truth heaping to themselves teachers after their owne lusts 2 Tim. 12 3 4 5. What if Mr. Pryn were another Timothy or had the very spirit of the selfe same Timothy and could infallibly assure us that these were the times which Paul then spake of and the Independents those who were then foretold to have itching eares and to be turned unto fables may Mr. Pryn be more officious or exceed the commission which was given unto Timothy himselfe Paul and Christ whose Apostle and Minister Paul was gave Timothy no other than that in such a case he should be watchfull in all things indure afflictions doe the worke of an Evangelist make full proofe of his Ministery reprove rebuke exhort with all long-suffering and doctrine v. 2. Consider I beseech you for the love of God and men or your owne sake if you have any symtomes of respect to either Does the Apostle thinke you there understand by reprove rebuke exhort with all long-suffering and doctrine that Timothy should upbraid reproach defame such as but differed from him in some opinion only as you have done to Mr. John Goodwin and that not for turning away from but for holding out such truths as none in Scripture are more evident or may more warrantably and that more easily too be made good next to the very Scriptures themselves to any equall judge and even to every man himselfe who will not put out the eyes of his owne reason and understanding to be led blindefold and superstitiously by other mens whereof we can have no other assurance than what is full Popishly implicit To doe the worke of an Evangelist to make full proofe of his Ministery is it thinke you to become an informer of the Civill Magistrate to provoke them unto wrath and rage against your Brethren of the Independent way to become an accuser of them a persecuter a very executioner properties most eminently peculiar to the Arch-enemy both of God and any thing like godlinesse in any of his Saints as you have done most tragically to your eternall infamy unlesse God in mercy worke your bitternesse of spirit into a more Christian temper of mildnesse and humility which till attain'd to shall continually be the prayer of One who till you be such or at least lesse Basilisk-like must only rest Your friend in private Christian Reader I Conceive it may not a little conduce towards the enlightning the Presbyterian party to see the whole Catalogue of their errours did they but once cast an eye upon the fierce clashings and diametricall contradictions in which their most eminent Champions would inconsiderately involve them to which purpose amongst many I doe here in the two next pages present thee with some few of them as in a looking-glasse peruse them impartially and when thou findest that no distinctions how sophisticall soever can possibly reconcile such contrarieties be jealous and suspect the rest free thy conscience from the thraldome and bondage of these Egyptian Spirituall Taske-masters disclaime the very countenancing such spirits who care not what trash and trumperies they vent so they may gaine Proselites and Contributions Let Reason be thy guide Peace and Truth thy aime and the God of Peace and Truth who requires no other than a reasonable service will infallibly be both thy rewarder and reward it selfe Farewell Divines of the Church

pamphlets notwithstanding which have been published of late may be observed more corrupted principles and a far worse spirit of persecution than ever was discovered in the late Delinquent decapilated Archbishop from his first ascending unto his highest growth of authority and greatnesse and in the Diary of his life which I suppose Mr. Pryn printed not to do him honour though after ages will not be tyed to be no wiser than Mr. Pryn I finde such eminent signes of a morall noble pious minde according to such weake principles as hee had beene bred up in his owne persecuting disposition disabling him from being instructed better and particularly so ingenuous a passage in his Funerall Sermon whereby he justifies the Parliament in putting him to death as I may safely professe unto all the world I never could yet discerne any thing neare of like piety or ingenuity to be in Mr. Pryn by all that ever I yet heard of him from first to last or by all the bookes of his which ever came to may hands wherein yet I have hitherto done him the honour in being at charges to buy as many I meane one of every sort as I could ever meet withall But I wish seriously that both Presbyteriall Prelates and all others now surviving who are any wayes possessed with this unruly spirit this legion of persecution would even for their owne sakes not so suddenly forget the little late Arch-Prelate though his head bee off since for my part through some small knowledge and experience of him both in his life and death I am fully satisfied that his endeavouring to subvert the fundamentall Lawes of the Kingdome and introducing another Religion for which he was charged and suffered death arose only from that depraved principle of enduring no body of any other Religion or opinion but his owne I hope both Mr. Pryn and others of the same alay may thinke it worth revolving in their saddest thoughts Persecuters are worse than birds and beasts of rapine amongst the rest whom even Nature teaches to associate and joyne together against this common and most pestilent of all enemies Beares and Lions are not so hurtfull in a Country as a misguided zeale growne furious is torrent like and carries all before it Such whose Religion teaches to persecute or but prevailes upon to make use of Civill coercive meanes for differences of Religion of Opinion will easily be carried on from one degree unto another untill their ends be compassed whether by fire or water Gun-powder-plots or Maritim Invasions Nothing comes amisse to them whom Religion once innitiates with the cruelties of compelling consciences 'T is worth observing how whilest the truth constrained Mr. Pryn to acknowledge the Independents piety with their reall and cordiall affections and actions unto the Parliament and Church of England in his Epistle to the Parliament he tells them only that they are justly to bee blamed as great disturbers of our publicke peace and unity the better to amuse them whilst in his other pamphlets and this farraginous hotch-potch of obsolet Anticke Popish Histories and Presidents for the most part which perhaps he thinks few or none of them will voutsafe to read through he seeks to captivate and poyson the peoples understanding into an evill conception of the Independents and so incense them whilest he himselfe exclames traduces and persecutes them unto his power with fire and fagot meerly for nothing but because they sue and seeke for in all humility and meeknesse a possibility of keeping a good conscience both towards God and man This is all they desire as touching Ecclesiasticall matters let Mr. Pryn who thinks himselfe to have deserved so well of Parliaments become their Advocate procure but thus much for them and take the rest for his fees He flourishes and cryes out against the Arminians of the Netherlands about ascribing at the first unto the Civill Magistrate a power of passing ultimate judgements in all controversies of Faith and other Ecclesiasticall matters arising in the Church and afterwards contracting or denying such a power belonging to the Civill Magistrate Might he not even as well nay much better blame former Parliaments of England for first acknowledging the Pope head of the English Church and afterwards renouncing of the Pope much against his Holinesse his good liking no doubt to choose Henry 8. in his stead And if Henry 8. then but a Papist were a fit Head of the Church Queene Elizabeth was no lesse though the Papists cry out of a femall Head of the Church of England as much as Protestants of a femall Pope of Rome and then surely King Charles must have succeeded in this Headship of the Church of England and here I desire to leave him and yet to finde him here rather than a Presbyterian Synodall Head untill Mr. Pryn resolve me what it is to be Head of the English Church what his Power and Authority is over the Churches Body whether the Body may or can doe any thing without the Head And whether any or what power one member or part of the Body hath over another But before you put pen to paper or your paper to the Presse at least that you will remember how King Charles the only supreme Head of the English Church according to the oath of Supremacy is now at Oxford with such and so great a part of the English Nationall Church which if they should call another Assemby of Divines would likely passe judgement in sundry points of Faith and other Ecclesiasticall matters quite contrary to the Parliament and Divines at Westminster Page 29. of your Discourse you quote a passage out of the last Convocation Canons that had the c. in the tayle which you approve of saying The power to call and dissolve Councels both Nationall and Provinciall is the true right of all Christian Kings within their owne Realmes or Territories Now if this be so to what purpose doe the Assembly of Divines at Westminster spend time in sitting there Why should the Commonwealth be at 4s a day charges for each of them Why do they not repaire unto their flocks Where will King Charles his Writ appeare for summoning them and for want thereof will not all the paines they take be lost Might not therefore the disturbance and offence they give their Independent Brethren have well beene spared Are not both Houses of Parliament tacitly aspersed by Mr. Pryn for causing them thus to assemble without King Charles his Writ and so against his true Rights and Prerogative Royall and lastly if this be not an absolute making void and null whatsoever the Assembly shall conclude on or the Parliament establish by their advice besides a justifying of the Independents for not submitting thereunto let Mr. Pryn himselfe upon review be judge For certainly it will seeme strange to every body else how Mr. Pryn producing besides others in page 25 26 27 28 29. no lesse than foure of King Charles his letters only to prove the due

thanks to Valentinian and Theodosius for assembling the Councell of Illirium which sayes Vt nemo deesset volens nemo cog●tur invitus That no Bishop might be absent who was desirous to be there and none compelled who were unwilling to be present from whence followes an irrefragable consequence that their Councells Decrees or Canons did not binde all people universally but only such as of their owne accords submitted thereunto If Mr. Pryn will but procure the same just priviledge for his Independent Brethren they will have the lesse occasion of exceptions if he domineere over the volunteers of the Presbyterian party Page 87. You say The Statutes in Q. Maries dayes repealing divers Acts touching Religion in K. Edward 6. his Reigne and setting up Masse and the old Popish Liturgies againe doe sufficiently evidence the jurisdiction of our Princes and Parliaments in matters of the Church and Religion which is in effect first That this present Parliament or any other hereafter have a jurisdiction to set up Popery againe and so Judaisme or Turcisme even what they please for all Parliaments have equall power And secondly that if they doe set up Popery Judaisme or Turcisme that then all England must submit thereunto and consequently become Papists Jewes and Turkes or Hypocrites which is more worse then either for whatsoever a Magistrate especially the supreme has jurisdiction in that he may justly and lawfully put in execution and that the people may not disobey upon paine of sinning and danger of damnation Rom 13. 2. But under what colour and pretence then did Mr. Pryn refuse subjection unto Church government by Episcopacy and according to the Common-Prayer-Booke Doe not take it ill that I spur the question so soone unto you againe I may aske it oft-times before you will be able to answer once without condemning your selfe according to your principles and lawes by which you proyoke justice against the Independents Were not Episcopacy and the Common-Prayer-Booke established by Act of Parliament which had as great a power than as this present Parliament has now or any other can have hereafter Nay you say expressely p. 88. That the Statute 1 Eliz. chap. 2. for uniformity of Common-Prayer and Service in the Church and administration of the Sacraments enjoyning conformity under temporall and Ecclesiasticall punishments is an irrefragable proofe of the Parliaments power in all Church matters What was it tro that then encouraged you to withstand the jurisdiction of Parliaments when they agreed not with your owne humour and disposition which you now presse so violently upon the tender consciences of your Independent Brethren Can there appeare any other clearer reason for it to the apprehension of standers by moderate men even of Mr. Pryns best friends or any that have their wits about them than that Mr. Pryn having suffered for Christs cause as he thought to thinke more charitably of him than he doth of others upon false principles grew weary of it and resolv'd that as the Bishops domineer'd and persecuted him so he would repaire himselfe by persecuting others But did the only wise God thinke we resolve to create man after his owne Image to estate him in such a sad and execrable condition worse then that of Beasts Wolves Beares and Tygres as that hee must necessarily tyrannize or be tyrannized over both in soul body and yet it cannot possibly be otherwise if you will grant a power to Kings Parliaments or Synods to require conformity from others in any thing which is not agreeable to their consciences for if such a latitude and height of jurisdiction be granted but to the more orthodox Kings Parliaments and Synods both Papists Lutherans Calvinists and Independents pretending and really taking themselves to be the most orthodox are bound in conscience to lay claime to and put in execution this power of compelling all the world unto their uniformity and so infallibly produce the most cursed enmity and hatred betwixt all people but differing in opinion exceeding that of Cannibals or the profoundest of antipathies between any irrationall creatures whatsoever and therefore you are mightily mistaken p. 96. to be so confident that Independents would preach universall obedience and subjection under penalties Ecclesiasticall and Civill if the Parliament should establish an Independent government which are clearly incompatible and contradictory to themselves and principles the ignorance whereof though to some it may seeme as slight as easily apprehended by a willing and enquiring spirit I perswade my selfe hath not only transported Mr. Pryn himselfe but many others into multitudes of impertinencies and absurdities Oh that Mr. Pryn therefore or any one of the Presbyterian way who wishes well to godlinesse would but please to cast an eye upon John the Baptist chap. 10. and considerately give their opinion whether to be persecuted be not even the most infallible marke of the true Church and Saints of Christ notwithstanding most Christians thus persecute one another Page 94. and 109. You say the opposites to Parliaments Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction have formerly and more especially in this present Parliament addressed severall petitions to this High and Honourable Court for Reformation of the Church c. wherein under favour I conceive you have misapprehended their proceedings and intentions which doubtlesse were for the most part or best affected that the Parliament in whom they acknowledged the sovereigne power to reside would permit countenance and encourage all godly men of gifts in preaching downe Heresies errours Idolatry Popery c. many whereof had either beene formerly established by law or not permitted to be preached downe through the Prelates corruption contrary to the Law This is the best even all the Reformation which the Civill Magistrate as Civill has a capacity of compassing against all Heresies and errours which must necessarily be vanquished by the sword of the Spirit and cannot possibly be suppressed by carnall weapons or the Civill sword they may destroy the flesh but cannot properly be said to touch and worke upon the spirit Page 109. After a franticke infectious pestilentiall feaver-fit of rayling the likest that of Billingsgate you tell Mr. John Goodwin with much gravity forsooth but far more saucie ignorance that it was no lesse than high presumption for him being a meere Divine and a man altogether ignorant of or unskilfull in the ancient Rights and priviledges of our Parliament as his writings demonstrate and himselfe intimates page 5. to undertake and determine to judge of them so peremptorily and in such manner as he has done c. But how come you tro a meere Lawyer I wish you were good at that at any thing to take so much upon you in Divinity if Divinity and the knowledge of Parliamentary priviledges be inconsistent as you seeme to insinuate to pin the Gospel with its propagation and whole affaires upon Civill powers the greatest share or major part whereof which should both by your politie and divinity be submitted to is in the hands of Turkes of